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Speaker 1: Well, uh, I think for long time listeners, you know

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Speaker 1: those folks, we have never made a secret about how

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Speaker 1: surreal and strange our jobs can be. One day we're

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Speaker 1: diving into geopolitics. In another day, someone is starting to

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Speaker 1: fight with me on YouTube about flat earth, so much

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Speaker 1: so that we did an update on this. You remember

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Speaker 1: flat earth. It was quite in vogue for a while.

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Speaker 1: But remember when that was like the biggest thing we

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Speaker 1: had to worry about. You know, it was like people

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Speaker 1: yelling at us about whether the Earth was flat around

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Speaker 1: golden times. Yeah, when b O B would just come

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Speaker 1: out and say something to sell more records. Is he

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Speaker 1: the one who said that you should be able to

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Speaker 1: see the curvature of the Earth if you're in an airplane?

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Speaker 1: Because that him, the BBC reported back in the day

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Speaker 1: that he was raising funds to test whether or not

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Speaker 1: the Earth it was in fact flat, and several several

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Speaker 1: people were doing the same. In this update, we just figured,

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Speaker 1: since we all live in such ry in times now,

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Speaker 1: this might be a nice break to look at just

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Speaker 1: how strange certain conspiracy theories can become. We do hope

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Speaker 1: you enjoy it, and if you have an argument that

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Speaker 1: you believe proves that's the vast majority about humanity and

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Speaker 1: everything we know about science is somehow incorrect about the

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Speaker 1: shape of the planet. As always, we'd love to hear

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Speaker 1: from you anyway. Here we go from UFOs to psychic

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Speaker 1: powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events.

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Speaker 1: You can turn back now or learn the stuff they

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Speaker 1: don't quant you to know. Hey, everybody, welcome back to

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Speaker 1: the show. My name is Max, my name is not

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Speaker 1: you argue, and I am Ben, which makes this stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. And before we get

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Speaker 1: into it, you guys, we've had We've had a lot

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Speaker 1: of people asking for shoutouts Chat at Konna. That's right,

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Speaker 1: we are returning yet again for an episode of shout

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Speaker 1: Out Corner where we just have listeners introduced themselves, say

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Speaker 1: something nice. You know, we had we had a really

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Speaker 1: cool thing. Jeremy wrote in about his anniversary that was

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Speaker 1: pretty cool, and uh, we're gonna We're gonna keep it brief,

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Speaker 1: but if you wrote to us, keep writing in who

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Speaker 1: are we shouting out today? The first one is Jimmy

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Speaker 1: James Kramer. He wrote to us with a really cool story, well,

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Speaker 1: a disturbing story about these specific endoscopes that maybe leading

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Speaker 1: to U superbug infections because they're very difficult to clean, apparently,

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Speaker 1: endoscopes specifically things that let's say, enter orifices in order

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Speaker 1: to check out what's going on inside of them in

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Speaker 1: the human body. And the problem with these in particulars

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Speaker 1: because once he goes in there and it gets the

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Speaker 1: equal I had other back heia that might be living

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Speaker 1: inside of one human. Then you take it out, remove it,

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Speaker 1: try to sterilize it as much as possible. But perhaps

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Speaker 1: there are a couple places within the scope, a little

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Speaker 1: small nooks and crannies that can't be cleaned well enough

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Speaker 1: to be completely sterile, just a little scary. And I

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Speaker 1: think there were a couple of recalls at least according

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Speaker 1: to drug watch dot com. And I cannot uh. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how reputable this site is, unfortunately, but the

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Speaker 1: thing that he did send us is pretty creepy. So

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Speaker 1: thanks Jimmy. So is a nook and cranny? Is that

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Speaker 1: metric system or something? And I think who's next? Well, next,

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Speaker 1: we have a delicious shout out to Goostaff von Essen

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Speaker 1: from Sweden with love. He suggested doing an episode on

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Speaker 1: the ib Affair IB was a secret Swedish intelligence agency

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Speaker 1: that is a mouthful that worked with the CIA and

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Speaker 1: the Israel security agency. So Gustaf Essen, consider yourself out

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Speaker 1: shouted shouted out, and our last one for today goes to,

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Speaker 1: uh Lynn. Now I may be mispronouncing your name. Lynn.

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Speaker 1: Am I a o uh there on Twitter? Who said

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Speaker 1: and I quote uh conspiracy stuff? Could I please have

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Speaker 1: a shout out for good luck? It could really help

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Speaker 1: on college mid terms? So, uh, Lynn, we wish you

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Speaker 1: the best of luck on your mid terms. I hope

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Speaker 1: your studies go well. Absolutely, I think we've been there.

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Speaker 1: I haven't off the books shout out real quick? Were

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Speaker 1: you about to say something? I'm sorry? Oh no, just

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Speaker 1: continuing to talk to Lynn. But you know it's cool,

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Speaker 1: nol No, No, I didn't know if you had something

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Speaker 1: substantial to say. That's not true. Okay, guys, guys, you

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Speaker 1: talk about my mat like that. Guys were live? Okay,

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Speaker 1: what is it? Mill? Okay? No. I just my dear

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Speaker 1: friend Lee, Albert Lee Landers of Augusta, Georgia town, um

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Speaker 1: just sent me a text that said, quote shout out

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Speaker 1: corner skadooche and he was referencing my off the cuff

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Speaker 1: Shoutout Corner theme that we have. Now you know it's cannon.

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Speaker 1: Now it's true and yeah and so um, you know,

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Speaker 1: he asked if I would give him a shout out

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Speaker 1: because this is the first episode he'd ever listened to,

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Speaker 1: and so Lee, shout out to you because you're in

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Speaker 1: you're in trouble. No, because we just violated one of

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Speaker 1: the rules of Shout Out Corner, which is it's around

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Speaker 1: three because it's not a shoutout room. So well, actually though,

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Speaker 1: if it was only a corner, it should just be one.

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Speaker 1: Well no, because then it which room has four corners,

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Speaker 1: but a corner like three one one on that side.

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Speaker 1: And then I love that we're talking and spatial reason

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Speaker 1: because this is perfect. Okay, So before we before we

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Speaker 1: get lost in that, I I do, uh, I do?

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Speaker 1: I do have to admit that I love the theme.

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Speaker 1: And if you enjoy shout Out Corner, then right to us.

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Speaker 1: We have a little bit of a list and who knows,

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Speaker 1: maybe you can also meet the rest of the listeners.

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Speaker 1: Oh gosh, less time on stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know. No, you were on a bit of an

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Speaker 1: adventure and we couldn't really talk about it. It was

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Speaker 1: a bit of a secret a secret mission. It was

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Speaker 1: a bit of a secret mission. But the cat is

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Speaker 1: now out of the bag, or should I say the clippy.

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Speaker 1: The clip is out of the bag. Badger is out

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Speaker 1: of the bag. No listeners, I'm referring to the beloved

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Speaker 1: uh Microsoft widget pre widget precursor to the widget. It

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Speaker 1: appears was right, and there's a name for it now

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Speaker 1: that I can't remember, of that type of of digital assistant.

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Speaker 1: What I'm getting at is, guys, over the weekend, I

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Speaker 1: took a last minute trip to New York with Josh

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Speaker 1: and Chuck from our brother pot cast sister podcast. Would

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Speaker 1: have to be gendered about this pure podcasts, pure podcast.

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Speaker 1: That's good stuff you should know to interview one Mr

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Speaker 1: Bill Gates, creator of the Clippy, and a couple of

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Speaker 1: uh Microsoft something about being one of the most wealthy

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Speaker 1: men alive in the free world. Um, but yeah, we

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Speaker 1: talked to him about renewable energy. He launched a really

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Speaker 1: big renewable energy initiative, and all that was embargo. We

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Speaker 1: went to a fancy hotel and talked to him, um,

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Speaker 1: and then all that stuff hit the news. What I

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Speaker 1: think is sort of a little bit of a bummer.

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Speaker 1: I think for his folks is the comment that he

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Speaker 1: made about that Apple should crack that phone of the

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Speaker 1: San Bernardino shooter has overshadowed largely the the stuff that

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Speaker 1: he was really trying to promote, sustainable and pushing, which

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Speaker 1: I think is a shame. Now you said he was

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Speaker 1: a cool guy, though he was super good. He was

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Speaker 1: chilled in and he was really surprised that there was

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Speaker 1: so few handlers and security. I mean it was very

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Speaker 1: low key. He probably keeps a close service, yeah, oh

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Speaker 1: for sure, but just about security protocol though there was none.

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Speaker 1: Really yeah, we just I mean I get a pat down?

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Speaker 1: Got no pat down? Did you? Did you request one? Well?

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Speaker 1: I got there early because I'm a little o c

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Speaker 1: D about that kind of stuff, and I just want

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Speaker 1: to make sure the WiFi was fast enough so that

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Speaker 1: I could upload the files real quickly. It was really

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Speaker 1: fast turnaround for the for the recording. It was for

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Speaker 1: the episode that came out yesterday and the interview took

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Speaker 1: place on Monday. Um, So I uploaded them and our

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Speaker 1: dear friend Jerry, who is the producer of stuff you

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Speaker 1: should Know, received the files and edited the interview into

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Speaker 1: the episode and we made the publish deadline, which was

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Speaker 1: yesterday morning. Yeah, I quick turnaround and Ladies and gentleman.

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Speaker 1: You can check out that episode on iTunes, Stitcher, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you like to listen to a podcast, and you

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Speaker 1: can hear every Buddy's Chuck and Josh as the Ah

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Speaker 1: chop it up with Bill Gates. How weird is it

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Speaker 1: that because you were in the same room with Bill

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Speaker 1: Gates And I don't know exactly how the degrees of

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Speaker 1: separation work necessarily because I think the originally you had

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Speaker 1: to send a letter I guess to someone that you

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Speaker 1: knew when you were gonna establish the six degrees. But

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Speaker 1: that connects you up to some very powerful people, not

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Speaker 1: that he isn't perhaps one of the most powerful. It

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Speaker 1: was just like the Kevin Bacon game. Yeah, I'm I'm scared.

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Speaker 1: One thing that Josh commented on his bill was drinking

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Speaker 1: a diet coke um and he left it behind and

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Speaker 1: we could have taken it and harvested his DNA. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how much effective DNA would get, uh, not

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Speaker 1: that I've tried, but from someone's uh not all the

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Speaker 1: way consumed soda can. I mean there there's some he

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Speaker 1: was lipping it pretty hard, you know what, Let's see

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Speaker 1: if let's see if we keep that one. But let's

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Speaker 1: also move on. Uh, this week, we are covering an

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Speaker 1: update series on the flat Earth theory. Now, our video

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Speaker 1: for this is going to come out probably around Sunday night,

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Speaker 1: maybe Monday. And what we do in the video is

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Speaker 1: walk through some of the recent ideas, some of the

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Speaker 1: longstanding misconceptions. And the reason we wanted to do an

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Speaker 1: update is uh, pretty pretty important, right, Matt. Yeah, We okay,

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Speaker 1: so a long time ago. Take take yourselves back now

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Speaker 1: a few years, yes, Ben, because we find ourselves here

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Speaker 1: at how stuff works and stuff they don't want you

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Speaker 1: to know intertwined into perhaps the story of the modern

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Speaker 1: flat earth theory simply because we You and I specifically

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Speaker 1: produced a video back in two thousand nine, which then

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Speaker 1: got on YouTube in two thousand ten about the theories

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Speaker 1: behind the flat Earth in the Flat Earth Society, and

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Speaker 1: it was then posted on various forums around the Internet.

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Speaker 1: There's one in particular on the Flat Earth Society dot org,

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Speaker 1: I believe, where a gentleman named Tom Bishop wrote that specifically,

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Speaker 1: quote how stuff works dot com endorses flat earth theory

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Speaker 1: unquote and it kind of became a thing that perhaps

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Speaker 1: our video is being used to promote the flat earth theory,

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Speaker 1: which is an interesting idea because if you watch the video, uh,

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Speaker 1: that is clearly not occurring within it. I mean it's

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Speaker 1: it's the same formula you guys apply to any video

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Speaker 1: you make, where you take an idea, you talk about

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Speaker 1: its background, and you describe the people that espouse said idea.

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Speaker 1: But that does not make you said espousers. And that's

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Speaker 1: the great thing about that forum because if you scroll

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Speaker 1: a little bit further down, as guy watched the video, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's at least there are at least three people who

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Speaker 1: are commenting endorses a really strong word or maybe you

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Speaker 1: didn't watch the whole video, and uh, it's pretty funny.

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Speaker 1: They're even using the hero of the facts and here's

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Speaker 1: where it gets crazy lines in their commenting back and forth.

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Speaker 1: So it was quite amusing. I think the more appropriate

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Speaker 1: headline would be how stuff Works makes video about flat Earth. Sure, sure,

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Speaker 1: but this is also a surprising thing. As you may

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Speaker 1: have heard in recent months, Uh, the concept of a

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Speaker 1: flat earth, which is a very ancient concept, gained national

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Speaker 1: media attention and more people are talking about it on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: on Facebook, on Tumbler, probably on Snapchat. Uh. I don't

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Speaker 1: think it can quite compete with some of the other

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Speaker 1: pictures on Snapchat, but there's probably a few things. So

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Speaker 1: while we're there, back in two thousand ten, two thousand nine,

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Speaker 1: let's not stop there. Let's travel further back in time

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Speaker 1: to the Iron Age. Okay, here we are, so listeners,

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Speaker 1: imagine that you're living in the Iron Age, and imagine

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Speaker 1: that you're an average person, pretty successful in your community

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Speaker 1: by the standards of the time. Now, you're not extraordinarily successful,

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Speaker 1: like a warlord or religious figure or a blacksmith. In fact,

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Speaker 1: you're overwhelmingly likely to be a farmer. And you measure

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Speaker 1: days not necessarily in hours, but in terms of the

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Speaker 1: world's natural rhythm day tonight, the position of the sun,

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Speaker 1: phase of the moon, winter to spring and back again.

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Speaker 1: And you do not travel widely because this would make

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Speaker 1: it difficult to take care of the vital crops upon

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Speaker 1: which you and your family depend. Not to mention, it

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Speaker 1: would take a long time to get very far at all. Right,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly right. And there's I also have a video

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Speaker 1: about how long it will take to walk around the

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Speaker 1: world for brains stuff, and even today it's very, very

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Speaker 1: difficult and pretty dangerous, so forget about it in the

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Speaker 1: Iron age, and you know, let's say you're content despite

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Speaker 1: the high rates of child mortality. You and your partner

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Speaker 1: have had some kids and they're farming too, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you you feel like life is good until imagine one

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Speaker 1: day a stranger comes to your community. This is a

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Speaker 1: person so different that at first you think maybe they're

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Speaker 1: not human at all, perhaps they're some sort of divine creature,

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Speaker 1: an angel, a demon. This creature turns out to be

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Speaker 1: a time traveler from uh in this example, specifically, Matt Frederick.

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Speaker 1: And Matt tells you that the world beyond your flat,

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Speaker 1: playing and crops and adjacent villages extends beyond the horizon

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Speaker 1: farther further. We're talking philosophically. Then you might imagine and

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Speaker 1: if you start walking today, says the time traveling Matt Frederick,

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Speaker 1: and you always head west, you will end up not

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Speaker 1: off the edge of the earth, but back here in

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Speaker 1: this very spot. You are standing poppy cock horse wash.

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Speaker 1: And why is that, you ask, and the time traveler says,

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Speaker 1: because of course the earth is round. Mad you forget

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Speaker 1: the time travelers. You so you don't have to do

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Speaker 1: a voice because the world is round. Now, you might

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Speaker 1: not believe this guy at first, and even if you did,

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Speaker 1: your community might kill him anyway, because that's how people are.

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Speaker 1: Which right, here's the other thing. You're going to need

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Speaker 1: a swimsuit because there will be some swimming involved. But however,

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Speaker 1: you can do this. It's yeah, So it's the end

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Speaker 1: of the world, or at least the the end of

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Speaker 1: the edge of the world as we know it. So

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Speaker 1: let's talk about ancient civilizations. It is true that in

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Speaker 1: the Iron Age people did believe that the Earth was flat.

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Speaker 1: Numerous ancient civilizations did think that right all over the world. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that includes parts of India before the Gupta period, Grease

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Speaker 1: up to the Classical period, parts of China, Native American cultures,

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Speaker 1: and on and on. People actually also believe Earth was

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Speaker 1: covered by a solid dome called the firmament, which is

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Speaker 1: a term you see in the Bible a lot, right,

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Speaker 1: like if you got high enough into the heavens, you

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Speaker 1: would eventually hit just yeah, it's almost like a glass

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Speaker 1: ceiling of sorts the way it's described. Sometimes I see

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Speaker 1: it as a snow globe. Almost just above there's a

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Speaker 1: picture on the House Stuff Works website that kind of

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Speaker 1: gives you a great idea, and that is on the

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Speaker 1: article how creationism works. And it's just it's a cool

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Speaker 1: illustration of the concept of yeah, exactly. And most of

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Speaker 1: China pretty much accepted the idea of a flat earth

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Speaker 1: until apparently meeting missionaries in the seventeenth century who are like, guys,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna blow your minds. Double checked myself. Just just

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Speaker 1: wanted to put this out there. The Bible does mention

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Speaker 1: the firmament seventeen times, but it actually is referring to

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Speaker 1: a expanse beyond the sky. So the expanse of the

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Speaker 1: heavens above the earth. Okay, they almost wore a little

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Speaker 1: head of the curve. Yeah, if you think about it.

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Speaker 1: And we'll find out more about that too. So there

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Speaker 1: are some myths we need to bust about belief in

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Speaker 1: the flat earth in the ancient world. Okay, we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about where this argument for a spherical world came from.

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Speaker 1: But first one of us that one of the biggest myths,

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Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, if we're already listening to this show,

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Speaker 1: that we imagine that you know this is a fact,

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Speaker 1: but just in case you are still in a situation

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Speaker 1: where your history teachers are misleading you, probably with the

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Speaker 1: best of intentions. Let's let's get it out of the

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Speaker 1: way now. Crystal Ball Cologne Street named Christopher Columbus was

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Speaker 1: a gigantic jerk. Is a monster. He was like, uh,

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Speaker 1: the nooid. If the noid was a genocidal slaver, that's

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Speaker 1: a deep cut, my friend, that's a deep cut. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I was just I was thinking about the NOI do

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Speaker 1: you guys remember the Anid video game? I played it

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Speaker 1: on a different console. The Nooid was big dominoes, look

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Speaker 1: up noid. Maybe a better thing would be He was

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Speaker 1: the Martin Screlly of his day. Is that better? Okay?

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Speaker 1: But despite all the terrible things he did, all the

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Speaker 1: just monstrous atrocities he committed or helped commit, he was

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Speaker 1: not a stupid man. He was not like the dullest

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Speaker 1: crayon in the box. He, like most of the people

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Speaker 1: at the time, knew the Earth was round. It was

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Speaker 1: common knowledge. He did not prove it. He Uh. If anything,

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Speaker 1: the big argument was about how big or small the

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Speaker 1: Earth was. It was not about the shape. Sure seems

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Speaker 1: to me if anyone was going to know first that

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Speaker 1: the earth was round, it would be somebody in the

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Speaker 1: nautical profession, you know, like like a captain, someone that

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Speaker 1: spends time out on the sea right where you could

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Speaker 1: see the actual curvature. Well, that also was a big thing,

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Speaker 1: a big superstition among um seafaring types was that you

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Speaker 1: would reach the end of the earth right and they

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Speaker 1: fall off, and that they were like there be monsters,

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Speaker 1: kind of incognita. It's true, But so why did this

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Speaker 1: myth come about? Where there's a guy named James Hannum

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Speaker 1: who wrote a piece called Science Versus Christianity, and we

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Speaker 1: have a quote for you directly from him. The myth

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Speaker 1: that people in the Middle Ages thought the Earth is

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Speaker 1: flat appears to date from the seventeenth century as part

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Speaker 1: of the campaign by Protestants against Catholic teaching, but it

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Speaker 1: gained currency in the nineteenth century thanks to inaccurate history

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Speaker 1: such as John William Draper's History of the Conflict between

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Speaker 1: Religion and Science in eighteen seventy four and Andrew Dixon

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Speaker 1: whites a History of the Warfare of Science with Theology

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Speaker 1: and Christendom in eighteen ninety six. Atheists and agnostics championed

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Speaker 1: the conflict thesis of their own purposes, but historical research

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Speaker 1: gradually demonstrated that Draper and White had propagated more fantasy

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Speaker 1: than fact in their efforts to prove that science and

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Speaker 1: religion are locked in internal conflict. The myth that people

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Speaker 1: in the Middle Ages thought the earth was flat appears

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Speaker 1: to date from the seventeenth century as part of the

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Speaker 1: campaign by Protestants against Catholic teaching, but it gained currency

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Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century thanks to inaccurate history such as

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Speaker 1: John William Draper's History of the Conflict between Religion and

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Speaker 1: Science and Andrew Dixon White's A History of the Warfare

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Speaker 1: of Science with Theology in Christendom. Atheist and agnostics championed

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Speaker 1: the conflict thesis for their own purposes, but historical research

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Speaker 1: gradually demonstrated that Draper and White had propagated more fantasy

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Speaker 1: than fiction in their efforts to prove that science and

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Speaker 1: religion are locked in eternal conflict. So essentially, what happened here.

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Speaker 1: The reason that we have this longstanding stereotype about people

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Speaker 1: in the ancient world is because two guys with an

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Speaker 1: agenda popularize something to make it look as those science

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Speaker 1: and faith are always at loggerheads. And you know, if

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Speaker 1: you go back even further, it was a religious insult

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Speaker 1: that the Protestants channeled against the Catholics old thinking. So

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Speaker 1: let's talk about the truth. The cons set of a

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Speaker 1: round Earth dates all the way back to at least

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Speaker 1: Pythagoras and Aristotle. So you could argue that in the

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Speaker 1: eighth century BC, the Biblical writer Isaiah alluded to a

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Speaker 1: spherical Earth. In Isaiah for quote, he sits enthroned upon

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Speaker 1: the circle of the Earth. Then in the third century BC,

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Speaker 1: Hellenistic astronomy established without a doubt, factual proof of Earth's

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Speaker 1: spherical shape. So this comes to us from astronomy. And

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Speaker 1: we had talked about whether this came from people in

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Speaker 1: a nautical profession. But keep in mind, at this point

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Speaker 1: in time astronomers and those in maritime occupations were intertwined

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Speaker 1: in terms of skill sets. Absolutely, I mean astronomy, or

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Speaker 1: rather the nautical mapping, and you know, making the charts

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Speaker 1: is essentially functional astronomy, I mean using the stars to

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Speaker 1: you know, plot your course. Did you guys know that?

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Speaker 1: Did you hear the NPR story about out this recently

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Speaker 1: where the Navy is going back to teaching uh, teaching

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Speaker 1: the students like where I'm actually well, we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: that later, but they're teaching people how to use the

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Speaker 1: stars and navigate again. Right, Yeah, then that's a that's

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Speaker 1: a valuable skill once. Once you know it, you can

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Speaker 1: keep an eye on it, because it's true that constellations

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Speaker 1: do change over time, but the scale of that change

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Speaker 1: is so vast in comparison to you know, human lives,

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Speaker 1: that you can pretty much count on these as a

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Speaker 1: fixed point. I think it's great. I think they never

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Speaker 1: should have stopped teaching from there. The belief and around

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Speaker 1: Earth spread gradually throughout the world. People knew, Yeah, but Ben,

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Speaker 1: is it really a sphere? Yeah? I guess you're right.

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Speaker 1: I guess it's better to call it an ellipsoid. But

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Speaker 1: still we knew, Yeah, it's kind of squashed, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so case closed? Right? Or is it? Here's where it

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Speaker 1: gets crazy, the flat earth theory. Okay, yes, we said

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Speaker 1: earlier Mesopotamian cultures believed that Earth was a disk. We

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Speaker 1: have had as a species, so many different shapes for Earth.

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Speaker 1: But obviously, if you're standing in one spot, you see

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Speaker 1: a mountain, you see an ocean, what's that old poem,

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Speaker 1: I looked around from where I stood and saw three

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Speaker 1: mountains and the wood. Um. It's a great poem. But

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Speaker 1: the the ideas that we were limited for a long

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Speaker 1: time because the signs that could prove to us the

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Speaker 1: position of the Sun and the and the moon and

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Speaker 1: Earth and the shape of those things were difficult to interpret.

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Speaker 1: So of course we thought it was flat for a while.

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Speaker 1: But well, let alone, what is the sun? What is

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Speaker 1: the moon? You know? What are what are these things

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Speaker 1: made of? What am I seeing far out there? We

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Speaker 1: know that something is there? But what is it? Is

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Speaker 1: it angry at me? I mean, that's the kind of

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Speaker 1: world people lived in. So gradually as the at least

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Speaker 1: in the West, the Hellenistic realization of Earth as a

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Speaker 1: ellipsoid spread across the world. Some people even today apparently

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Speaker 1: didn't buy it, and they said, that's a bunch of

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Speaker 1: horse wash. Uh. And so so let's look at some

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Speaker 1: of the modern day stuff. In n s Samuel Shelton

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Speaker 1: founded a society that had a theory about the shape

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Speaker 1: of the Earth, namely, it's flat or a pancake. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: And and he based these ideas just on walking around,

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Speaker 1: observing things and going Hey, al right, well everything's looking

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Speaker 1: pretty flat around here. Common sense, yeah, personal observation, the

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Speaker 1: zootetic method, the idea that we can only encounter things

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Speaker 1: through our own senses. Yes, my, my, this one uh

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Speaker 1: focal point of consciousness understands it in this way. And

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Speaker 1: he called scientific evidence for a globe shaped Earth dogmatics.

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Speaker 1: So he said scientists were making this claim without adequate

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Speaker 1: evidence based they were following a party line, right, which

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Speaker 1: is very interesting, right when it when you're thinking about

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Speaker 1: some of these criticisms that came from the religious angles,

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Speaker 1: back when the Protestants were criticizing Catholic beliefs, it's just

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Speaker 1: interesting to then throw it right onto science. But this

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Speaker 1: was also in nineteen Like this is nineteen fifty six,

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Speaker 1: So keep in mind Shelton lived long enough to see

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Speaker 1: pictures of Earth taken by satellites, and what do you

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Speaker 1: do then, Well, of course he claimed that they were fake.

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Speaker 1: I mean, of course they were fake. Right, He and

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Speaker 1: the members of his society continue to support the idea

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Speaker 1: that Earth is flat, and the people who disagreed are

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Speaker 1: just part of a vast conspiracy to hide the truth

428
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 1: about Earth's inherent flatness. Right, everybody's in the pockets a

429
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: big globe manufacturers. Uh So, Shelton passed away in nineteen

430
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 1: seventy one, a guy named Charles Johnson took over leaders

431
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: ship and let the society until two thousand and one.

432
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: Critics of the Flat Earth Society say that it's members

433
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 1: just deny any evidence that conflicts with their worldview. And they,

434
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: you know, members who are in the Flatter Society and

435
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: genuinely believe this would probably say the same thing about

436
00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 1: their opponents. That's how these kind of arguments typically go.

437
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: It sounds like a bunch of contrarians if you ask me, yes, yeah,

438
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: who who isn't? Wait? Did you guys just both agree? Uh?

439
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 1: And by the way, right now, a gentleman named Daniel

440
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 1: Shenton is running the Flat Earth Society. He brought it

441
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,000
Speaker 1: back up in two thousand nine. And if you go

442
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: to the Flat Earth Society dot org you can find

443
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: the forums that are active there. I think in the

444
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: the Guardian article that I read there he said there

445
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: were only there are only a few active members are

446
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: non ironic. Yes, and I you know, in this case,

447
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: of course, I'm not gonna cast dispersion someone for their

448
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: personal beliefs. You know what I mean, you believe what

449
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: you want. No one should control your mind. However, he

450
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 1: goes all the way back to ancient Greeks, and even

451
00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: that's a little um Western centric, because the odds are

452
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: that there are other ancient civilizations that figured this out

453
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 1: before the Greeks. Just it's possible, and it's possible that

454
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: we wouldn't know because there's a dearth of evidence. But

455
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: they learned by measuring shadows, and that's that's what led

456
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 1: them say, Oh, the planet's surface must be curved. And

457
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: then the astronomers is nol mentioned figured out the world

458
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 1: was round, and then we have to look at the

459
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: idea of creationism. Listeners, if you are creationists, that is

460
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: your belief system, and you subscribe to that, then of

461
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: course I'm not going to um. As I said, I'm

462
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:06,760
Speaker 1: not going to cast dispersion on someone's personal faith, but

463
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: I'm willing to wage your odds are that if you're

464
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: listening to this show right now or any podcast, you

465
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: also know that the Earth is round modern um Well, okay,

466
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: so back when the idea of a flat earth was

467
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: more common, when most people in the West where some

468
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: form of creationists, uh, they believed that the Earth was flat,

469
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: it was a mobile, and it was at the very

470
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 1: center of the universe. It was the bull's eye on

471
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 1: the great cosmic dartboard, and it was covered by the

472
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: solid dome like sky. And and this goes to that

473
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: firmament that Noel mentioned earlier, and you see it mentioned

474
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: in Genesis. Uh, the sun, stars and moon are embedded

475
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 1: in this dome. But that turns out not to be

476
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: the case. We've actually sent somebody, We've actually sent some

477
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: nifty robots and rockets out into space. We've had people

478
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: in orbit who have had life changing experiences by looking

479
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 1: at the Earth all at once, allegedly allegedly, do you

480
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: know any astronauts? Well, it's so funny to me that

481
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 1: that point of logic, and it goes back to how

482
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,240
Speaker 1: we were discussing. If you can, if you can argue

483
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: something well enough, then perhaps you can be right. Even

484
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 1: if you are completely wrong. You can win the argument. Yeah. Yeah,

485
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: whether you are the substance of your argument. Isn't that

486
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 1: the whole point of debate? Like the debate Club, I mean,

487
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: aren't there exercises where you just take on a completely

488
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:40,520
Speaker 1: absurd position and your job is to just defended the

489
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 1: victorious if I could have a rebuttal. Another interesting thing

490
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: to know about the beliefs of how the flat Earth

491
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: would function physically is how gravity would work in this scenario.

492
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: So I I never really understood it until we began

493
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: researching again. And so the idea on this flat plane

494
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: as it's moving upwards. So the idea on this flat

495
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: plane is that there is no gravity per se, because

496
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: there's not one central location as there would be on

497
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 1: a spherical or a planet shaped to the way that

498
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: Earth is shaped, where it's pulling everything in and spinning

499
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: to hold everything to the surface. In this scenario, the

500
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: flat plane is moving upwards at a speed that would

501
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 1: when you jump up in the air and you come

502
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,880
Speaker 1: back down. The reason that that's happening is because the

503
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: Earth is coming up to meet you essentially, which is interesting.

504
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: The Earth is moving and you are not, so it's

505
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: a force of acceleration. Yes, I see, And then we've

506
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: we've seen other computing beliefs. I guess we should talk

507
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: a little bit about the different concepts of the outlay

508
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: or the geography of the flat Earth. Right how the

509
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: there's the common belief that the north pole is at

510
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: the very center, which of Earth is at the very

511
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: center of the universe. Makes the North Pole sacred place,

512
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 1: the most important place. And then it's uh, it's ringed around.

513
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: The edges of the world are ringed around by what

514
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: we mistake as the South Pole. It's really a wall

515
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: of ice. And our colleague Christian Seger wrote a great

516
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: piece and now about this, where he said, picture picture

517
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: the wall from the night's watch, but just with out

518
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, trolls, monsters, they're called white walkers. Oh, yes, yes, yes.

519
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,240
Speaker 1: There is a map that you can find of the

520
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: way the Earth looks in the flat Earth view, and

521
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: that if you superimpose that map, in particular with the

522
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 1: U N map, it is pretty much the same thing.

523
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: But when if you look at it, it's just a

524
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: version of a projection from the top down, from the

525
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: North Pole down. Now we also found uh. We also

526
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 1: learned about a group of people called geo centrists, who

527
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: believed that Earth may not be flat, but it's definitely

528
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 1: the center of everything, and it is immobile, and that

529
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: the Sun rotates around the Earth in twenty four hour periods,

530
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 1: and all other planets rotate around the Sun. It's a

531
00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:18,760
Speaker 1: it's a complex thing. Um, this is this is also

532
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: generally a religious based belief. Uh. They're the people, I

533
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: guess you would call radical geocentrist. Uh refer to a

534
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: religious text alone and reject all modern astronomy, physics, and cosmology. Um.

535
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 1: And also some believe that the sky is still a

536
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: solid dome. Yeah, which takes us to modern believers listeners.

537
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 1: We received so many, so many questions on YouTube, on Facebook,

538
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: on Twitter, where conspiracy stuff at all of those? By

539
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: the way, if you want to, uh, if you wanna

540
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 1: give us a little bit Internet love, like comments, subscribe, etcetera.

541
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you. We read a lot

542
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:10,160
Speaker 1: from b O b An til It's Aequila, who are

543
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:14,360
Speaker 1: the reason this became a mainstream thing again. Well, the

544
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:19,320
Speaker 1: whole thing kind of started when a MS Tequila angel

545
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 1: Tila Love is her Twitter handle, She said, it's and

546
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: nobody has been able to prove to me that the

547
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: Earth is around. Where's the curvature in the horizon? Hashtag

548
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: flat earth proved me wrong? Dang it? And this continued,

549
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: said not going to get over this. Why are all

550
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 1: the buildings in New York standing straight up? If Earth

551
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: was round? Some of the buildings would have a slight tilt. Uh.

552
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: And then if the Earth is a spinning globe, how

553
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: come airplanes still land without crashing because the face of

554
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: the Earth is flat, not a globe. And yeah, I

555
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 1: I don't you know. I know it's it's such a

556
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:02,720
Speaker 1: safe pitchforky thing for people to uh dogpile on someone.

557
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: But how sincere is this? I wonder if you have

558
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: been following Tia Tequila at all. She has been. She's

559
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: been going down this interesting little I let's call it

560
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: a rabbit hole of looking into some of the things

561
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 1: that we have looked into in the past and covered

562
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,799
Speaker 1: and discussed, um that seemingly internalizing them quite a bit

563
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 1: per Perhaps I know that she I can't speak for her,

564
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: but she seems to be very um invested in believing

565
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: some of these things and taking them at face value.

566
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 1: And there's another player in the game, another celebrity who

567
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: mentioned this, who is an MC that I have quite

568
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 1: a high opinion of the rapper b o B. Yes, yes, sir,

569
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: And you have actually a verse on that, right or

570
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 1: a verse from that. No, it's not a bo b

571
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: ver I said. I had mentioned. There's a there's a

572
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: group I really Enjoy from Chicago called the Anti Pop

573
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 1: Consortium and the hip a line that's your world is

574
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: flat Haha. You fell off hoping that the laws of

575
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: gravity will bring you back to Earth. If not, okay,

576
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: your words fall lighter than air, so float away and

577
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: disappear into a black hole sun. So someone falls off

578
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: the edge of the planet and into a black hole.

579
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,919
Speaker 1: That's that's terrible. That's a black hole disturbingly close to Earth,

580
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: ardless of what shape it is. Well, okay, So b

581
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:26,399
Speaker 1: o B began also tweeting about a flat Earth? What

582
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 1: what kind of stuff was he saying? Uh, there was

583
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 1: a picture that he posted and I don't know exactly

584
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 1: where it is. I'm assuming it's in Atlanta. I can't that.

585
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: I mean, I thought that's what it might be, but

586
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure. But someone standing out top of the

587
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: mountain and then way in the distance you can see

588
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: I guess the city, like a city, which would presumably

589
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: be Atlanta or another small uh suburbs somewhere in there.

590
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 1: And it says the city is in the background are

591
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: approximately sixteen miles apart. Where's the curve? Please explain this?

592
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: And my favorite response was, I don't think he was

593
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,400
Speaker 1: legit saying the Earth is flat. He's been on planes.

594
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 1: I think he was just asking, and so responded Tom foolery.

595
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,080
Speaker 1: Even in a plane you can't see a curve. It's true,

596
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: but it's like, what's the what's the deal, Ben, give

597
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: us the skinny? Uh? So there is. It's it's in

598
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: some ways a matter of perception against sort of that

599
00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: zotetic method that that says, well, who made this map,

600
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: who made this globe? Who is telling me what to believe?

601
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: And on a personal level, I identify with that kind

602
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: of instinct wholeheartedly. However, the problem is that the science

603
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 1: is fairly conclusive, and by fairly I am woefully understating it. Uh.

604
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 1: Neil deGrasse Tyson, the famous science science communicator, I guess

605
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:59,919
Speaker 1: would be the technical term or science popularizer, uh, when

606
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: on national television recently to uh speak about this. He

607
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,480
Speaker 1: also had a Twitter conversation with b O B about it.

608
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 1: He did something of a virtual mic drop. I heard

609
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: about that in a real one on the nightly show. Right,

610
00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: so it became it became a matter of public debate.

611
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: But a question posed in the video here, that's that's

612
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 1: the state of affairs right now. Folks, a question posed

613
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 1: in the video coming out next week. Uh, really stuck

614
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 1: with me and I'm still wondering, because yes, is this

615
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:38,919
Speaker 1: genuine iniative marketing employee. Bob was also talking about clone factories,

616
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: which I think is an order of magnitude more plausible

617
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: um that people could. For me, it's certainly more fascinating

618
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: imagining organs or clone, you know, the parts of a

619
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: body we need. But this there's a third question here,

620
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: and that's the one that really bothers me and and listeners, Um,

621
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: when we asked this question. We really want to hear

622
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: from you on this, and I want to hear what

623
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: you guys think to know, Matt, is this a distraction move? What?

624
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,640
Speaker 1: What's not being paid attention to? I bring up my

625
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 1: roommate Frank a lot um, and he tends to think

626
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: that most public figures that say things like this, like

627
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: let's say Kanye West, for example, you know, tweeting that

628
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: Cosby is innocent, whatever your opinions are, that it's not

629
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 1: a very popular thing to say in all caps with

630
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 1: no qualifying comments. Um, you know, say Donald Trump, some

631
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 1: of the inflammatory things that he says. Uh, someone like Frank,

632
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: my skeptical roommate would say that all of these people

633
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: are playing on UM public outrage UM and they are

634
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: doing what you call garnering earned media because you know,

635
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 1: when you say something outlandish like that that's very divisive,

636
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 1: you know, p people are going to chime in on

637
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: one side or the other, and then those people are

638
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 1: gonna go at each other, you know, and it just

639
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: generates this whole domino effect where you generate this media,

640
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 1: you know, storm, shall we say, and then all of

641
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: a sudden we're in a room talking about it, right,

642
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 1: or tweeting about it, or looking at comments or reading

643
00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 1: things on BuzzFeed. And you know, I would never comment

644
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:26,359
Speaker 1: on any of that stuff, but I sure as hell

645
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: read the comments a lot. They're entertaining stuff or chiming

646
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 1: in with, you know, an opinion that that other people

647
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,800
Speaker 1: are also either reinforcing and supporting. It becomes an echo chamber.

648
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: But again, the thing I ask is, you know know

649
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 1: that sounds like we're coming on your end, we're coming

650
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,560
Speaker 1: down on the side of UM marketing. Employ Well, what

651
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: I what I didn't get to yet and where Frank

652
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: and I sometimes differ is I think sometimes a combination

653
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: of both UM, Like I think that there is a

654
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: certain point where you can can belief, take an opinion,

655
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: and kind of balloon it into Okay, I'm gonna really

656
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,240
Speaker 1: like ride this crazy training all the way to Valhalla.

657
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: You know witnessed me? Do you witnessed me on my Twitter? Meltdown,

658
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: shining and Chrome? Yeah, that's that's in the Chrome browser.

659
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: I would positive that this is a reaction to a

660
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,719
Speaker 1: blurring line between what we perceive as reality and what

661
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 1: is possible to create with computers. And by that I

662
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 1: mean I mean photoshopping is so advanced now, video effects

663
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 1: are so advanced. When you are handed a piece of evidence,

664
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: physical evidence that is digital, I think it is not

665
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: only right to be skeptical of whatever you've just been handed, um,

666
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:52,120
Speaker 1: but not necessarily to the point of completely disbelieving everything.

667
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,919
Speaker 1: You seem like a particularly functional conspiracy though, Like if

668
00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:01,760
Speaker 1: the government and scientists are going out of their way,

669
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: above and beyond to fake all this data to what,

670
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,279
Speaker 1: to what end? That's the most important question. Well, I'm

671
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: glad you asked it. That's the most important question. That's

672
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: the part. I can't care. If the Earth was flat,

673
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: let it be flat. We'd we'd figure we'd figure out

674
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,080
Speaker 1: how to make it work right, The vast majority of

675
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: people are not going to it's it's not going to

676
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,720
Speaker 1: matter to the day to day life of the vast

677
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 1: majority of people whether the Earth is round or flat.

678
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: Let's face it, the majority of humanity is not going

679
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: to attempt to circumnavigate the globe. The majority of humanity

680
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 1: will never be in danger of saying, oh crap, the

681
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: ancient Mesopotamian cultures were right, and I learned too late.

682
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: Now here I am sliding off into the universe. But so,

683
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:49,560
Speaker 1: how would someone cover this up? That's a big question.

684
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: How would you be able to keep this secret so effectively?

685
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: Considering that nations are almost constantly a war, and then

686
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 1: and you know, not really representing each other's interests, and then,

687
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 1: more importantly ten dollar questions asked today, why why would

688
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: you do this? You know, frenzies. Okay, because it's you know,

689
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,839
Speaker 1: it's just sort of interesting to have secrets. I could

690
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: just think of better things to keep people in the

691
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 1: dark about, and this is just not one of them.

692
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 1: Don't get me wrong, there there there are quite a few.

693
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: There are quite a few strange um things about the

694
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: way the world is depicted. You know, no one, no

695
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: one ever really questions in the US why the maps

696
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 1: and the globes are oriented toward um with with the

697
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: US dead center right and on top of the thing.

698
00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:41,799
Speaker 1: We call it South America or something, when we know

699
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 1: that there's no up and down in space. So it

700
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 1: really makes no difference to an alien civilization or to

701
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: anyone outside of this planet which continent is on top.

702
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: But psychologically that's an important thing, you know. You know

703
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,359
Speaker 1: what My favorite depiction of a flat Earth comes from

704
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: what you know, what is it? Uh? From Terry Pratchett's Discworld.

705
00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: It's depicted as a disc um perched atop the backs

706
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: of Is it two elephants? Is there a third one

707
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:13,919
Speaker 1: that I'm not seeing? Either two or three? It would

708
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 1: make more sense that it would be three, because you

709
00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,040
Speaker 1: got to, you know, kind of making a star shape,

710
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: and there has to be it has let's be logically exactly.

711
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: And then those elephants are standing on the shell of

712
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: a giant tortoise and all of this whole array is

713
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:31,799
Speaker 1: floating in space, which is awesome. I love it. It's

714
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: just it's a fabulous image. Um. So that's yeah, that's

715
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:39,640
Speaker 1: that's what I thinks. This This makes me think of

716
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:44,800
Speaker 1: other conspiratorial things regarding maps. One thing that may interest

717
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 1: you if you haven't checked it out yet, listeners, please

718
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,280
Speaker 1: spend some quality time with Google Maps, because Google Maps

719
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: plays nice with all the countries of the world that

720
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 1: it can. If you ask them to hide a specific site,

721
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,600
Speaker 1: secret city, something like that, and yet there are still

722
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: quite a few of those, uh, then Google will block

723
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 1: it out for you as best they can. But Google

724
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:11,960
Speaker 1: also shows different borders for countries depending upon the origin

725
00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 1: point of the search, So you know there are massive

726
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 1: ongoing border skirmishes as people say no, we own this,

727
00:45:21,440 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 1: no I own this, etcetera. And Google is actively participating

728
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: in something very much like a multi national conspiracy. But

729
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 1: also you know they don't. It seems like the most

730
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 1: efficacious way to avoid getting in trouble with the government

731
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,360
Speaker 1: is just tell both of them that they're right. That

732
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,800
Speaker 1: that is. That's some of the stuff that this leads

733
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: me to think about. But today we've done our flat

734
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 1: Earth update. We'd love to hear from you guys. Do

735
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,400
Speaker 1: you mind if I wrap up this discussion with a quote?

736
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 1: I would love that. So this is from a song

737
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:02,200
Speaker 1: by the much underappreciated artists must Dolby and it's from

738
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:05,120
Speaker 1: his album The Flat Earth, which I recommend highly, and

739
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: so I've been listening to it a lot lately. And

740
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:13,160
Speaker 1: it's from the title track, Hold Me Baby. The Earth

741
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: can be any shape you wanted, Love me, Darling. Believe me, Darling,

742
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 1: any shape at all. Hold me Baby, dark and cold

743
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 1: or bright and warm. Love me Darling, long or thin

744
00:46:29,239 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: or small. Believe me, Darling, but it's home home. Maybe

745
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 1: hold me baby, and all I ever had? Love me, Darling,

746
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: And maybe why for me? Believe me, Darling, the earth

747
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:52,120
Speaker 1: is flat? Interesting to give a moment of silence out

748
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: of respect. We have a couple of special announcements before

749
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:59,479
Speaker 1: we go. First, we would like you to check out

750
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:03,200
Speaker 1: our uh, our upcoming guest host. We're gonna have a

751
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 1: personal friend of mine that we have mentioned before, Damien

752
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: Williams Uh. You can find him on Twitter. He's at Wolven.

753
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 1: He will be joining Nolan I for an episode on

754
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,320
Speaker 1: alchemy and an episode on technology and the occult cult

755
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 1: Cult Cult Cult Cult Cult Cult. But you're wondering, hey, Ben,

756
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: why didn't you mention Matt. Well, Matt, you're out a mission. Yes,

757
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 1: I'm on a completely disclosed mission to Charleston, South Carolina,

758
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 1: or around about that area, because I'm gonna head over

759
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:41,720
Speaker 1: to the to the Naval Nuclear Power Training Command. I'm

760
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 1: calling it a campus because I don't know the correct terminology.

761
00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 1: It is a base, but they there is a campus

762
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 1: within the base there. But I'm gonna go and support

763
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:52,560
Speaker 1: my brother in law, who is I guess graduating up

764
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 1: to the next level. Again, I don't know the terminology.

765
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: It's not an accommodation or anything. He's just moving up

766
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 1: the ranks in in the school, so I guess it's

767
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 1: a graduation. Is it like getting a yellow belt. I

768
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 1: think it's a little more significant than that, but yes,

769
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: kind of yellow belts are a big deal. I remember

770
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: when I got my yellow belt. It was okay, I

771
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 1: never got the yellow nice humble brag, no, but yeah,

772
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 1: it's very cool. So what I'm going to attempt to

773
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 1: do on Friday is broadcast live if you know, if

774
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 1: it's not against too many protocols or if the signal

775
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: strength is strong enough. Uh So, hopefully that will be

776
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: interesting in some way because it's a it's a neat place,

777
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,960
Speaker 1: it's a place where a lot of people go who

778
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: end up working in the nuclear sector in the US.

779
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:46,400
Speaker 1: I think you mean nuclear, Yes, in the nuclear power

780
00:48:46,520 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: energy sector. So uh, stay tuned for that. And Matt,

781
00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 1: I'm sure the rest of the listeners joining Nolan, I

782
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: am wishing you the best of luck. And don't push it, man,

783
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: don't don't get don't get jammed up. We will see

784
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: what happens. Al right, So we're gonna get out of here.

785
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,120
Speaker 1: Riddle me this. Where can everybody find all of our

786
00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:13,879
Speaker 1: audio podcast? Well, um, you can find them on iTunes.

787
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: And if you get them on iTunes, you guys, leave

788
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: a nice leave a review, you know, leave us a

789
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: little review, a couple of stars, not not a couple.

790
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,200
Speaker 1: Do three at least, you know, four would be great,

791
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 1: and write something, you know, because that really helps get

792
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,759
Speaker 1: the podcast out where people can see it. You know,

793
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: the more reviews there are, the more the algorithm kind

794
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: of pushes the show out to folks that maybe haven't

795
00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:38,799
Speaker 1: discovered it yet. So that would be a great way

796
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: to help the show. If you don't, if iTunes is

797
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: not your jam and you're more of a Stitcher, Spotify,

798
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:48,600
Speaker 1: Google Play, Um, is that all of them? There's other ones.

799
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: It's coming out every day, but We're pretty much available

800
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:52,480
Speaker 1: on any platform that you can get podcast or you

801
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: can go directly to our website. You can stuff they

802
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:57,239
Speaker 1: Don't want you to know dot com. What can they

803
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 1: find their Matt, You can find everything we've ever produced

804
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 1: Jaws And that's the end of this classic episode. If

805
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you

806
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:10,360
Speaker 1: can get into contact with us in a number of

807
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:12,440
Speaker 1: different ways. One of the best is to give us

808
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 1: a call. Our number is one eight three three st

809
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,120
Speaker 1: d w y t K. If you don't want to

810
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,760
Speaker 1: do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email.

811
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff

812
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: they Don't Want You to Know is a production of

813
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:30,560
Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

814
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

815
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.