WEBVTT - Ep 14: The Politics of Perseverance

0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:01.440
<v Speaker 1>Hey, what's up everybody.

0:00:01.520 --> 0:00:05.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics and I heard

0:00:05.200 --> 0:00:07.040
<v Speaker 2>podcast and unbothered production.

0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:09.440
<v Speaker 1>Time to get spolitical.

0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:19.800
<v Speaker 2>It's been twenty two years since the NFL adopted the

0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Rooney Rule, and with so many corporations go aside when

0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.480
<v Speaker 2>it comes to their diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives, now

0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:29.240
<v Speaker 2>seems like an appropriate time to check in on the

0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:32.120
<v Speaker 2>impact of the Rooney Rule. First, let's start with why

0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:34.800
<v Speaker 2>the Rooney Rule was even created, because it seems like

0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:37.680
<v Speaker 2>whenever we have a conversation about why any measure is

0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:42.000
<v Speaker 2>adopted to correct systemic inequity, people never paint the full

0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:45.239
<v Speaker 2>picture about the origin story. In two thousand and two,

0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:48.479
<v Speaker 2>the late Johnny Cochrane, who famously got oj Simpson acquitted

0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:51.840
<v Speaker 2>for double murder, and civil rights attorney Cyrus Mary, who

0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.279
<v Speaker 2>won huge discrimination lawsuits against Texaco and Coca Cola. They

0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:58.720
<v Speaker 2>threatened to sue the NFL for racial discrimination. Now, what

0:00:58.880 --> 0:01:01.640
<v Speaker 2>drove Cochrane and Mary to threaten the NFL with the

0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:04.600
<v Speaker 2>lawsuit was the firings of Tony Dungee, who was then

0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:07.559
<v Speaker 2>the coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and Dennis Green,

0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.720
<v Speaker 2>who was fired even though he had made the playoffs

0:01:10.720 --> 0:01:14.080
<v Speaker 2>eight of nine seasons as head coach of the Minnesota Vikings.

0:01:14.400 --> 0:01:17.920
<v Speaker 3>The Bears are who we thought they were. Now, that's

0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.679
<v Speaker 3>why we took the damn field. Now, if you want

0:01:20.680 --> 0:01:24.200
<v Speaker 3>to crown them, they crowned her ass. But they are

0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:26.679
<v Speaker 3>who we thought they were, and we got about the hook.

0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Thanks. Now, I'm sorry if you mentioned Dennis Green. It's

0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:37.040
<v Speaker 2>like you gotta play that clip the awkward Fanks coach.

0:01:37.200 --> 0:01:40.640
<v Speaker 2>It just kills me every time. Anyway, The firings of

0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.679
<v Speaker 2>both Dungee and Green drew some raised eyebrows. When Dungee

0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:46.640
<v Speaker 2>was let go, the Bucks were fifty four and forty

0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.200
<v Speaker 2>two in his six seasons in Tampa, during which the

0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.440
<v Speaker 2>Bucks went to the playoffs four times, including appearing in

0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:56.120
<v Speaker 2>the nineteen ninety nine NFC Championship Game. Now, before Dungee

0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.720
<v Speaker 2>became the coach, the Bucks had only made the playoffs

0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:02.680
<v Speaker 2>three times in seasons, and as a franchise, had a

0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:06.320
<v Speaker 2>thirty percent win percentage with the championship roster. The Bucks

0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.960
<v Speaker 2>won the Super Bowl the season after Dungee was fired

0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:12.040
<v Speaker 2>with John Grutin, who during his seven seasons in Tampa

0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.240
<v Speaker 2>only made the playoffs twice after winning the Super Bowl

0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:17.239
<v Speaker 2>and finished with a sixty to fifty.

0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:18.120
<v Speaker 1>Seven overall record.

0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.440
<v Speaker 2>Green meanwhile guided the Vikings to two appearances in the

0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:25.080
<v Speaker 2>NFC Championship four division titles, and they only missed the

0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:28.200
<v Speaker 2>playoffs twice in his ten seasons. Now Green also was

0:02:28.240 --> 0:02:31.239
<v Speaker 2>only the second black coach in NFL history. Now attorneys

0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:33.720
<v Speaker 2>Cochrane and Mary They saw these firings as emblematic of

0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.840
<v Speaker 2>a deeper systemic problem in the NFL. In nineteen twenty one,

0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Fritz Poller became the NFL's first black head coach, only

0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:42.120
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't known as the NFL then, but the American

0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:45.960
<v Speaker 2>Professional Football Association. It would be sixty eight years before

0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:49.160
<v Speaker 2>the NFL had another black head coach, Artchell, who took

0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:51.959
<v Speaker 2>over for the Raiders in nineteen eighty nine. When the

0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:53.960
<v Speaker 2>Roomy Rule was adopted in two thousand and three, the

0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:55.720
<v Speaker 2>NFL only had five black.

0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:56.680
<v Speaker 1>Coaches in its history.

0:02:57.040 --> 0:02:59.720
<v Speaker 2>Since the Roomy rule was adopted roughly twenty two years ago,

0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.280
<v Speaker 2>there have been one hundred and thirty nine head coaches

0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.440
<v Speaker 2>in the NFL, and only twenty six haven't been white.

0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:07.119
<v Speaker 1>Now, considering how.

0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.240
<v Speaker 2>Long it took the NFL to get its first black

0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.120
<v Speaker 2>coach in the modern era, and that entering this season

0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.800
<v Speaker 2>there were nine minority coaches. You could make an argument

0:03:16.040 --> 0:03:18.639
<v Speaker 2>that the Rooney rule has kind of sort of made

0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:22.320
<v Speaker 2>some progress, But as we've seen through this most recent

0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:24.520
<v Speaker 2>hiring cycle, and by no means what was this the

0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:27.520
<v Speaker 2>first year this happened, the Rooney rule also puts minority

0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:30.960
<v Speaker 2>coaches and owners in awkward positions. It also in some

0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:34.359
<v Speaker 2>ways degrades minority coaches who are just looking to be

0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:38.400
<v Speaker 2>given a fair shot. Now, since this current administration is

0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.360
<v Speaker 2>insistent on weaponizing DEI and dragging us back to the

0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:44.560
<v Speaker 2>days of whites only, should the Rooney rule be the

0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:49.040
<v Speaker 2>next casualty? Is it time for it to go? Let's

0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.920
<v Speaker 2>ask the important question. Is the lack of black and

0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:56.080
<v Speaker 2>minority coaches an issue of race? Let me give you

0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:00.120
<v Speaker 2>the definition of systemic racism. According to Merriam Webster, it

0:04:00.160 --> 0:04:02.760
<v Speaker 2>means the oppression of a racial group to the advantage

0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:06.720
<v Speaker 2>of another, as perpetuated by inequity within interconnected systems such

0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:10.560
<v Speaker 2>as political, economic, and social systems. In twenty twenty two,

0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:14.280
<v Speaker 2>the Washington Post did a special investigative report called how

0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:18.080
<v Speaker 2>the NFL blocks Black coaches. It is a thorough and

0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.960
<v Speaker 2>comprehensive report back by data. Some of the conclusions drawn

0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:25.360
<v Speaker 2>from this report are these, black coaches tend to perform

0:04:25.400 --> 0:04:28.239
<v Speaker 2>about as well as white coaches, but while white candidates

0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:30.800
<v Speaker 2>are offered a vast and diverse set of roots to

0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:34.120
<v Speaker 2>the league stop coaching jobs, black coaches face a much

0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:37.520
<v Speaker 2>narrower set of paths. They have had to serve significantly

0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.000
<v Speaker 2>longer as mid level assistants, are more likely to be

0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.640
<v Speaker 2>given interim jobs than full time ones, and are held

0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.320
<v Speaker 2>to a higher standard when it comes to keeping their jobs.

0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.640
<v Speaker 2>Since nineteen ninety, black coaches have been twice as likely

0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.719
<v Speaker 2>as others to be fired after leading a team to

0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:55.080
<v Speaker 2>a regular season record of five hundred or better. Now,

0:04:55.120 --> 0:04:57.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure, as I'm relaying this data, some of you

0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.200
<v Speaker 2>are riding fast into the comments section to say, it's

0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:02.440
<v Speaker 2>not about color rays, it's about the best person for

0:05:02.520 --> 0:05:05.120
<v Speaker 2>the job. Well, was it about the best person for

0:05:05.160 --> 0:05:07.840
<v Speaker 2>the job? When the NFL went almost seventy years without

0:05:07.880 --> 0:05:11.160
<v Speaker 2>a black head coach. In the twenty years that passed

0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.160
<v Speaker 2>after the Rooney Rule, only eleven percent of the head

0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:17.320
<v Speaker 2>coaches hired were black. So does that mean all the

0:05:17.360 --> 0:05:21.560
<v Speaker 2>white guys were simply just smarter. Let's not forget the

0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.839
<v Speaker 2>history of the NFL is filled with examples of the

0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:29.159
<v Speaker 2>league being in lockstep with systemic racism. In nineteen thirty four,

0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.280
<v Speaker 2>George Preston Marshall, the owner of the Washington football team,

0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:35.159
<v Speaker 2>and by the way, remembering why I'm avoiding using their

0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:40.160
<v Speaker 2>old nickname another hint. Anyway, George Preston Marshall executed his

0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:42.840
<v Speaker 2>secret plan to ban black players from the league. It's

0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.599
<v Speaker 2>a history the NFL probably doesn't love to talk about

0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:49.640
<v Speaker 2>because Marshall didn't act alone. He convinced other prominent NFL

0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.520
<v Speaker 2>families to join the band, and some of those families

0:05:52.560 --> 0:05:56.560
<v Speaker 2>still own NFL teams today, the Mars who owned the Giants,

0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.479
<v Speaker 2>and wouldn't you know, also the Boonies. This isn't to

0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.120
<v Speaker 2>say that you can't atone for a racist pass, but

0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:06.760
<v Speaker 2>how much has the NFL really atoned. There are still

0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:09.920
<v Speaker 2>five NFL franchises that have never had a permanent black

0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.599
<v Speaker 2>head coach. We witnessed Colin Kaepernick having his entire career

0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:16.720
<v Speaker 2>destroyed because he took a knee during the national Anthem

0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:21.280
<v Speaker 2>to protest against racial injustice. Meanwhile, Nazi salutes by the

0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:24.679
<v Speaker 2>de facto president, totally cool. It was just in twenty

0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:27.480
<v Speaker 2>twenty one that the NFL agreed to ban race norming,

0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:32.000
<v Speaker 2>a practice the league willingly engaged in to deny black retirees'

0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:36.080
<v Speaker 2>access to the NFL's multi billion dollar concussion settlement. Race

0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:39.000
<v Speaker 2>norming is the practice of assuming that black players have

0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:42.680
<v Speaker 2>lower cognitive abilities. So if a former black player is

0:06:42.720 --> 0:06:45.600
<v Speaker 2>presumed to have a lower cognitive ability, then it is

0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:49.520
<v Speaker 2>concluded he has been impaired less due to playing football.

0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:52.120
<v Speaker 1>Kind of fucked up, isn't it. Now?

0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:54.880
<v Speaker 2>Remember, in this same league, it was accepted that black

0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.520
<v Speaker 2>players were not smart enough to play quarterback and could

0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:01.719
<v Speaker 2>not be the leader of men. That same also existed

0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:04.960
<v Speaker 2>when it came to black coaches. But it wasn't just

0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:09.279
<v Speaker 2>this undercurrent of systemic racism that minority coaches are up against.

0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:10.640
<v Speaker 1>It's also nepotism.

0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.800
<v Speaker 2>In twenty twenty two, there were seven hundred and seventeen

0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:16.400
<v Speaker 2>on field coaches in the NFL, and at least ninety

0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.920
<v Speaker 2>three of those coaches, or thirteen percent of them, had

0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:21.320
<v Speaker 2>our father, son, or brother who was a current or

0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:24.200
<v Speaker 2>former NFL head coach. Seventy six percent of those family

0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:28.640
<v Speaker 2>connections were white USA Today Sports analyzed seventy nine father

0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.520
<v Speaker 2>son connections and they found nearly half of the sons

0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:34.760
<v Speaker 2>got their first NFL jobs on the same staffs as

0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:37.080
<v Speaker 2>their father. Now, I think you can guess the race

0:07:37.120 --> 0:07:40.320
<v Speaker 2>of those sons and fathers. This past hiring cycle, we

0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:43.840
<v Speaker 2>saw examples of NFL teams engaging in sham interviews to

0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.760
<v Speaker 2>meet Rooney Rule requirements, which mandates that teams interview two

0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:51.840
<v Speaker 2>external minority candidates for a head coaching position and one

0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:56.239
<v Speaker 2>external candidate or a coordinator position. To satisfy the Rooney rules,

0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.880
<v Speaker 2>several teams interviewed black candidates that they had no intr

0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:04.320
<v Speaker 2>in hiring. The Cowboys, for example, hire Matt Eberflus. They

0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:08.080
<v Speaker 2>recently fired Chicago Bear's head coach for their defensive coordinator position,

0:08:08.360 --> 0:08:11.680
<v Speaker 2>and even though there were reports that said Eberflus was

0:08:11.720 --> 0:08:14.320
<v Speaker 2>their guy, they couldn't make the hire official.

0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:16.120
<v Speaker 1>Until they interviewed a minority candidate.

0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:20.320
<v Speaker 2>Now inner Chicago Bears secondary coach Andre Curtis, who interviewed

0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:24.120
<v Speaker 2>with Dallas and allowed them to meet the Rooney rule criterion. Now,

0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.440
<v Speaker 2>if you're Andre Curtis, do you still interview even though

0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.640
<v Speaker 2>you know you aren't getting the job now. Some would

0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:32.880
<v Speaker 2>say he should do it just to get an idea

0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.920
<v Speaker 2>of what these head coaching interviews are like. Some would

0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:39.440
<v Speaker 2>counter and say, why play the token. But the problem

0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.520
<v Speaker 2>isn't the rule. The problem is that there has been

0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.880
<v Speaker 2>no real punishment for violating the Rooney Rule, at least

0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:48.200
<v Speaker 2>not a punishment that would make teams and owners think

0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:52.559
<v Speaker 2>twice about not taking the process seriously. In two thousand

0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:55.040
<v Speaker 2>and three, the Detroit Lions were fined two hundred thousand

0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:58.240
<v Speaker 2>dollars for violating the Rooney rule because they didn't interview

0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:01.880
<v Speaker 2>a minority candidate before they hireed Steve Marrucci. The Lions

0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:05.000
<v Speaker 2>didn't lose any draft picks, and today they're the only

0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.640
<v Speaker 2>team that has ever been punished behind the Rooney rule.

0:09:08.000 --> 0:09:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Former NFL Players Union president D Smith pointed out in

0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:14.400
<v Speaker 2>a piece for Yale Law Policy and Review, the Rooney

0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Rule isn't a rule, but merely a suggestion because the

0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:22.440
<v Speaker 2>NFL has no outside entity that determines punishment and owners

0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:26.559
<v Speaker 2>simply don't bear any of the consequences. Smith wrote fine

0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:29.199
<v Speaker 2>should start at five million and escalate for individuals and

0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.960
<v Speaker 2>clubs who violated the adopted system. The reality is that

0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.360
<v Speaker 2>teams do not care about draft picks or minor finds

0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.720
<v Speaker 2>as punishment for violating league guidelines. The proof is that

0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:41.600
<v Speaker 2>we still have consistent and repeated violation of the Rooney

0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.640
<v Speaker 2>rule process and have not achieved the Roony rules goal.

0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.720
<v Speaker 2>The NFL uses significant finds to police player conduct both

0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.559
<v Speaker 2>on and off the field, claiming that these finds promote

0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:55.480
<v Speaker 2>uniformity and protect the NFL product. It is ironic that

0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.240
<v Speaker 2>the league has not adopted a similar zero tolerance fine

0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:02.840
<v Speaker 2>structure when it comes to achieving a fair and inclusive workplace.

0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:03.640
<v Speaker 4>Nah.

0:10:03.800 --> 0:10:07.120
<v Speaker 2>I know many people think you can't legislate behavior or fairness,

0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.040
<v Speaker 2>but in this country that's the only way any sort

0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:13.080
<v Speaker 2>of progress has ever been made. People have never decided

0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:15.439
<v Speaker 2>out of the goodness of their heart to adopt equality

0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.360
<v Speaker 2>as a practice. Look no further than the Civil War

0:10:18.600 --> 0:10:21.679
<v Speaker 2>and the Civil Rights movement. It always has been by

0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:26.040
<v Speaker 2>fours and through a painful process. Considering our willingness historically

0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.360
<v Speaker 2>to legislate inequality, it seems we should keep that same

0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.800
<v Speaker 2>energy when it comes to correcting inequality.

0:10:33.360 --> 0:10:36.360
<v Speaker 1>I'm Jamelle Hill, and I approve this message.

0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:39.240
<v Speaker 2>Coming up next on politics now, I don't want to

0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:41.480
<v Speaker 2>pat myself on the back for the good timing award.

0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:43.280
<v Speaker 2>But I'm about to pat myself on the back for

0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:45.680
<v Speaker 2>the good timing award. When I recorded this interview with

0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.680
<v Speaker 2>today's guest, she had not yet won the Australian Open

0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:49.720
<v Speaker 2>Devil's title.

0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:50.920
<v Speaker 1>Now she has.

0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:53.520
<v Speaker 2>For her winning it is just a testament to her

0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.319
<v Speaker 2>incredible talent and strength. She went through a lot as

0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:58.920
<v Speaker 2>a young tennis pro, including body shaming as a woman

0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:00.920
<v Speaker 2>of color, the path ten and this hasn't been easy

0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:04.360
<v Speaker 2>for her, and she'll share how she's persevered to become

0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:06.600
<v Speaker 2>not only a great player, but one of the most

0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.840
<v Speaker 2>important and distinct voices in the sport. Coming up next

0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:21.920
<v Speaker 2>on politics, Taylor Downson. All right, Taylor, I am going

0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.520
<v Speaker 2>to start this podcast with a question I ask every guest,

0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:29.000
<v Speaker 2>and that is, can you name a athlete or a

0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:32.240
<v Speaker 2>sports moment that made you love sports?

0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:40.600
<v Speaker 4>Oh? Yeah, I think it was. It was several, but

0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:44.000
<v Speaker 4>a big iconic moment for me because I never played

0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:47.280
<v Speaker 4>any other sports. So an iconic moment for me was

0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:53.240
<v Speaker 4>watching Serena come out on Arthur ash Stadium night match

0:11:54.000 --> 0:12:01.160
<v Speaker 4>and she wore the denim skirt with the boot and

0:12:01.400 --> 0:12:04.040
<v Speaker 4>like there were her shoes that were boots, and then

0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:07.040
<v Speaker 4>the boots unzipped and then she just had her sneakers on.

0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.280
<v Speaker 4>And I just thought that was like the coolest thing,

0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.160
<v Speaker 4>you know, just being able first of all, having someone

0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.679
<v Speaker 4>who's playing a sport the way that I was, that

0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:22.319
<v Speaker 4>looked like me, that was unapologetically black, you know, wearing braids,

0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:25.760
<v Speaker 4>you know, constantly were talked about at the early parts

0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:27.840
<v Speaker 4>of their career, with wearing beats in their hair and

0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.400
<v Speaker 4>all of the things. But and then to take like

0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:32.480
<v Speaker 4>fashion risks like that, I thought that was just like

0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.280
<v Speaker 4>the coolest thing because I've never really fit inside of

0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.520
<v Speaker 4>a box, right, So it's like that was just like

0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:43.240
<v Speaker 4>total rebel moment. Rebel in the tennis world. I don't care,

0:12:43.320 --> 0:12:44.800
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to do my own thing. And I just

0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.640
<v Speaker 4>thought that was like so cool because it showed me that, like,

0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.160
<v Speaker 4>you could be whatever you want to be. You can

0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:53.800
<v Speaker 4>do whatever you want. But it definitely helps that you're

0:12:53.840 --> 0:12:56.640
<v Speaker 4>winning and that you're kicking everyone's ass and you're number one,

0:12:57.280 --> 0:12:59.960
<v Speaker 4>you know, it's a lot easier for people to like

0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:02.720
<v Speaker 4>shut up and just kind of like deal with it,

0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:04.760
<v Speaker 4>you know. So that for me, that was a moment

0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.599
<v Speaker 4>where it kind of made me really love the ability

0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:12.280
<v Speaker 4>to not only like play the game and be someone

0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.679
<v Speaker 4>of color who's played the game, but then also like

0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.240
<v Speaker 4>it gave me the confidence to know that I can

0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:19.640
<v Speaker 4>really express myself in the game.

0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.400
<v Speaker 2>Let's take people through your origin story a little bit

0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:23.840
<v Speaker 2>as it relates to tennis.

0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:25.320
<v Speaker 1>How did you get introduced to the game?

0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:28.600
<v Speaker 4>So my mom played until she was eight months pregnant

0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:33.360
<v Speaker 4>with me, and ironically enough, I played until the day

0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.520
<v Speaker 4>before I went to the hospital with my son. So

0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:36.959
<v Speaker 4>I guess I.

0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Was gonna say, there's kind of a theme there, there's

0:13:39.160 --> 0:13:39.960
<v Speaker 1>a pattern.

0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:45.000
<v Speaker 4>Yes, And so it was. It was very interesting because

0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.160
<v Speaker 4>I played, she played until she was eight months pregnant

0:13:48.160 --> 0:13:51.640
<v Speaker 4>with me. I was always around the game, so for me,

0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.600
<v Speaker 4>it was something that I was used to. My mom

0:13:55.840 --> 0:14:00.319
<v Speaker 4>and my first coach, his wife, played doubles together, so

0:14:00.440 --> 0:14:02.559
<v Speaker 4>I was always around the game, even when I was

0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:05.320
<v Speaker 4>a kid and we didn't want to place like, we

0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.200
<v Speaker 4>didn't want to go out there, so we would just

0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:10.040
<v Speaker 4>be at the park, who was always a round court.

0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.599
<v Speaker 4>So for me, it was just like kind of a

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:18.440
<v Speaker 4>natural evolution. And then my sister started taking lessons, and

0:14:18.520 --> 0:14:21.200
<v Speaker 4>I'm the kind of person where it's like, if you're

0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:22.640
<v Speaker 4>going to do it, I want to do it. And

0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.760
<v Speaker 4>if I can't do it, you can't do it. So uh,

0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:29.960
<v Speaker 4>for me, it was very much yeah, no, we're if you.

0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:31.480
<v Speaker 4>If you're doing it, I'm going to do it too.

0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 4>And so she was taking lessons and I was behind

0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.480
<v Speaker 4>the court and I would throw balls at her because

0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.360
<v Speaker 4>I was like, no, this is mine, Like I'm doing

0:14:43.360 --> 0:14:47.680
<v Speaker 4>it too, right. And so my coach he was like,

0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.400
<v Speaker 4>get off the court, get off the court. No, wouldn't

0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.720
<v Speaker 4>do it. So he kicked me off the court that day,

0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 4>came back, she said another lesson, came back, did the

0:14:56.440 --> 0:15:01.040
<v Speaker 4>same thing. Someone put someone give her a racket. Please,

0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.120
<v Speaker 4>somebody give her a racket, like she is getting on

0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.080
<v Speaker 4>our nerves. We don't just please someone help us out. So,

0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 4>long story short, that's how it all started. And here

0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:13.920
<v Speaker 4>we are. I don't know.

0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:18.360
<v Speaker 2>So you sort of BULLI you bullied your way in,

0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.080
<v Speaker 2>which is in some respects would be sort of a

0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:26.600
<v Speaker 2>tiny bit of a theme for your career. Now, you

0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.240
<v Speaker 2>left home, I believe, at fourteen years old to pursue

0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.280
<v Speaker 2>this career in tennis. How did you arrive at that

0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.760
<v Speaker 2>decision that you needed to do something like that, or

0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:37.360
<v Speaker 2>you and your family, because I know you didn't make

0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:40.600
<v Speaker 2>this as an individual decision, because that's when you think

0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:42.600
<v Speaker 2>about how we all were fourteen years old. That's a

0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:46.680
<v Speaker 2>pretty monumentous decision. So how did you kind of get

0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.400
<v Speaker 2>there to say, hey, I got to do this if

0:15:48.440 --> 0:15:51.480
<v Speaker 2>I want to be really good and really a professional

0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:52.000
<v Speaker 2>in this sport.

0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.320
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. So, I mean I had a lot of opportunities

0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:58.160
<v Speaker 4>of like when I was coming up, you know, my

0:15:58.280 --> 0:16:01.280
<v Speaker 4>coach was a very avid like you need to play

0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 4>every week. So we played tons of tournaments, you know,

0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:09.360
<v Speaker 4>local tournaments to state tournaments, southern tournaments, and worked our

0:16:09.400 --> 0:16:15.880
<v Speaker 4>way from each level. And you know, I realized that

0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.520
<v Speaker 4>a lot of people were in Florida or California at

0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.120
<v Speaker 4>the time, where the two big places. Due to the weather,

0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.680
<v Speaker 4>I hadn't been invited several times to USTA camp so

0:16:27.840 --> 0:16:33.520
<v Speaker 4>out in California, out down in Florida, and you know,

0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.760
<v Speaker 4>I just felt like, you know, it was a good opportunity.

0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:40.720
<v Speaker 4>I actually had gotten accepted into the program when I

0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:43.960
<v Speaker 4>was thirteen, So I was in seventh grade, and three

0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:45.960
<v Speaker 4>days before I was supposed to leave to go, I

0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.320
<v Speaker 4>told my family, I'm not ready. I had all my

0:16:48.360 --> 0:16:51.400
<v Speaker 4>stuff packed. I had all of my close packed bens

0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.360
<v Speaker 4>stacked up and everything, and I was just like, I'm

0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:56.880
<v Speaker 4>just not ready yet. And so I finished out middle school.

0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.000
<v Speaker 4>So I did my finished out eighth grade year, and

0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:02.360
<v Speaker 4>then I was like, okay, now I'm ready experienced high

0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:04.280
<v Speaker 4>school for a month, which was like the most fun

0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.359
<v Speaker 4>that I've had. People like, did you go to school?

0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:10.320
<v Speaker 4>I was like, yeah, for a month, and but it

0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.440
<v Speaker 4>was it was it was one of the things where

0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:14.199
<v Speaker 4>it's like in my head, I was like, Okay, I

0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:16.320
<v Speaker 4>know that if this is something that I want to pursue,

0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:20.159
<v Speaker 4>like I want to try, and I knew that financially,

0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:21.760
<v Speaker 4>my parents weren't going to be able to give me

0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.280
<v Speaker 4>the opportunities to travel to Australia, into France and to

0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.520
<v Speaker 4>all of the places even where the Junior Grand Slams are.

0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.800
<v Speaker 4>We're talking Australia, Paris, London, and in New York, right,

0:17:31.880 --> 0:17:35.560
<v Speaker 4>So even if you take those four tournaments, that's a

0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:38.600
<v Speaker 4>lot of traveling. It's a lot of money. And so

0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.720
<v Speaker 4>I knew going down to the USCA, I said, you know,

0:17:42.760 --> 0:17:45.159
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to use their finances to be able to

0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:49.040
<v Speaker 4>give me opportunities to play and to train, to get

0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:52.120
<v Speaker 4>proper structure and just kind of like fully dive into

0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.200
<v Speaker 4>you know, the game because up until I was fourteen,

0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:57.879
<v Speaker 4>you know, I was doing tennis in school, so I

0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:00.439
<v Speaker 4>was doing school and then would have my left and

0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:05.479
<v Speaker 4>everything you know in the afternoons after school. Always education

0:18:05.640 --> 0:18:08.000
<v Speaker 4>was a huge priority for my for my parents, so

0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.560
<v Speaker 4>that was never that was never an option, you know,

0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.359
<v Speaker 4>to not be educated and to not do well in school.

0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.480
<v Speaker 4>So you know, that's why it's kind of like crazy

0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:18.400
<v Speaker 4>to me sometimes where I'm like, Okay, these kids at

0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:22.119
<v Speaker 4>like six are in academies and doing the things that

0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.160
<v Speaker 4>I was doing at fourteen, they're doing it at six

0:18:24.200 --> 0:18:27.040
<v Speaker 4>and seven, you know, which is which is kind of

0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:31.280
<v Speaker 4>crazy to me, but hey whatever, Yeah, So that was

0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:33.439
<v Speaker 4>that was really the mentality in the mindset. I just

0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:35.760
<v Speaker 4>really wanted to give myself an opportunity to see how

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:40.000
<v Speaker 4>far I could go with like being fully supported financially

0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.000
<v Speaker 4>and to be able to not have to worry about

0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:45.600
<v Speaker 4>structure and organization of like I'll have a coach, I'll

0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.040
<v Speaker 4>have fitness, I'll have everything that I need to hopefully,

0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:53.800
<v Speaker 4>you know, pan out to become a professional. And ironically enough,

0:18:53.920 --> 0:18:55.880
<v Speaker 4>a lot of the people that I was with in

0:18:55.960 --> 0:19:01.359
<v Speaker 4>that age range, the guys, a majority of them went pro.

0:19:01.520 --> 0:19:05.200
<v Speaker 4>Not all of them, but a majority of them. And

0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.200
<v Speaker 4>on the female side, a lot of the people when

0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:10.199
<v Speaker 4>I was living on campus, a lot of them went

0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.840
<v Speaker 4>to college and are very successful in their own ways. So,

0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:16.960
<v Speaker 4>you know, it wasn't always to say all be all

0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.359
<v Speaker 4>that being in that program was going to ensure that

0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:21.280
<v Speaker 4>that you went pro and that you were going to

0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.040
<v Speaker 4>be successful, But it did give us an opportunity to

0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:28.240
<v Speaker 4>travel and to you know, have everything that we needed

0:19:28.280 --> 0:19:30.560
<v Speaker 4>to be as professional as possible.

0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.080
<v Speaker 2>Now, you're from the South side of Chicago, and when

0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.639
<v Speaker 2>people think about the tennis world, you know, we know

0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:41.120
<v Speaker 2>what that world looks like financially Racially, people don't aren't

0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:43.680
<v Speaker 2>in tennis that come from where you come from typically,

0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:46.520
<v Speaker 2>So for the people out there who are like sort

0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:50.160
<v Speaker 2>of unfamiliar with what this grind looks like. As you're

0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.320
<v Speaker 2>coming up and you already mentioned the expense, like what

0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:56.400
<v Speaker 2>all goes into that when you're trying to become a

0:19:56.560 --> 0:20:00.480
<v Speaker 2>professional tennis player and have become a professional tenant player

0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.760
<v Speaker 2>and you know you may not have your resources don't

0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:05.920
<v Speaker 2>look like how a lot of people you're playing against,

0:20:05.960 --> 0:20:07.000
<v Speaker 2>how what theirs looks like?

0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:08.960
<v Speaker 1>What is that part of it like?

0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:13.159
<v Speaker 4>It's really difficult. This is probably one of the toughest

0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:19.680
<v Speaker 4>sports because with tennis, you it's really hard to practice

0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:23.480
<v Speaker 4>on your own. So in football you can go on

0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.840
<v Speaker 4>a field and run routes. Right, in basketball, you can

0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:29.240
<v Speaker 4>go and find a hoop and you can just shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.

0:20:29.280 --> 0:20:31.560
<v Speaker 4>You can practice, but if you don't have a wall,

0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.440
<v Speaker 4>it's really difficult to practice and do the things that

0:20:35.480 --> 0:20:37.480
<v Speaker 4>you that you need to do and get the feel

0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:40.720
<v Speaker 4>where the ball's leaving your racket, it's coming back, it's

0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:45.080
<v Speaker 4>you know, doing all the things. A racket costs minimum

0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.400
<v Speaker 4>one hundred to two hundred and fifty dollars just one.

0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.520
<v Speaker 4>A cannon balls is twelve dollars for three balls, you know,

0:20:51.640 --> 0:20:57.280
<v Speaker 4>one can. Court time is usually on the cheap side,

0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:04.639
<v Speaker 4>forty dollars an hour, you know. Then we're talking about

0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:09.879
<v Speaker 4>privates that are usually one hundred bucks an hour, eighty

0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:12.679
<v Speaker 4>bucks an hour, and you do those couple times a day,

0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:16.679
<v Speaker 4>and then you have maybe have group lessons and that's

0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:20.280
<v Speaker 4>maybe two hundred three hundred bucks a week, you know,

0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:26.000
<v Speaker 4>so it's and then that's training, right then we have travel,

0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:30.440
<v Speaker 4>so you have to drive or fly to tournaments. Tournament

0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:34.760
<v Speaker 4>usually have forty to eighty dollars entry fees. And there's

0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:38.639
<v Speaker 4>been a time where I played a professional tournament. In

0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:43.920
<v Speaker 4>twenty seventeen, I played a pro tournament and I made

0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:48.359
<v Speaker 4>sixty six dollars minus forty dollars entry fee I drove

0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:51.280
<v Speaker 4>to the tournament. So I had twenty six dollars that

0:21:51.320 --> 0:21:54.280
<v Speaker 4>I left to a professional tournament with and I was like,

0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:55.720
<v Speaker 4>this can't even fill up my gas tape.

0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:00.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was gonna say like, yeah, so you basically

0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:01.680
<v Speaker 2>you can't.

0:22:01.480 --> 0:22:04.320
<v Speaker 1>That was a net loss, Like, oh you big.

0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:07.560
<v Speaker 4>Time, right, totally, totally. So this is just like, these

0:22:07.560 --> 0:22:10.160
<v Speaker 4>are all of the expenses that you have to try

0:22:10.240 --> 0:22:13.119
<v Speaker 4>and give yourself these opportunities. Right now, we're talking about

0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:19.560
<v Speaker 4>if a tournament is a week long, you're talking about hotel, food, travel, gas,

0:22:19.600 --> 0:22:22.280
<v Speaker 4>if you drove all of the things. So there are

0:22:22.440 --> 0:22:27.800
<v Speaker 4>so many things that add up, and you could potentially

0:22:28.200 --> 0:22:30.880
<v Speaker 4>you can lose out on a lot, you know, and

0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:38.040
<v Speaker 4>in juniors, your parents are fronting this constantly until I mean,

0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:41.119
<v Speaker 4>if you unless you turn pro or unless you you know,

0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:43.240
<v Speaker 4>sign to an agency and you get a signing bonus

0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:44.880
<v Speaker 4>or whatever the case may be. But that's the only

0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:47.040
<v Speaker 4>way that you're getting or you have sponsors, just the

0:22:47.040 --> 0:22:49.879
<v Speaker 4>only way you're getting like upfront money. But if you

0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:52.600
<v Speaker 4>don't have that, you have to find a way to

0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:56.480
<v Speaker 4>fut that bill until you start making money. And I

0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:58.480
<v Speaker 4>can tell you for one hundred percent. In fact, for me,

0:22:58.560 --> 0:23:01.960
<v Speaker 4>for years, I was in the negative. I could tell you.

0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:06.439
<v Speaker 4>Twenty nineteen was the first time in my career that

0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:11.879
<v Speaker 4>I was like comfortably like okay money wise, like and

0:23:11.920 --> 0:23:13.760
<v Speaker 4>that's because I made the round of sixteen of the

0:23:13.840 --> 0:23:17.480
<v Speaker 4>US Open, which gave me a really nice, you know,

0:23:17.560 --> 0:23:22.760
<v Speaker 4>cushion chunk of money. But up until then, it was

0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:26.960
<v Speaker 4>constantly like, all right, I gotta this, this what's coming out,

0:23:27.000 --> 0:23:29.000
<v Speaker 4>and I gotta do this, and I gotta travel here,

0:23:29.040 --> 0:23:31.760
<v Speaker 4>and you know, being very you know, I don't want

0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:34.040
<v Speaker 4>to say frugal, because I still am, but you know,

0:23:34.320 --> 0:23:39.800
<v Speaker 4>very aware and cognizant of ebbs and flows of the finances. Right,

0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:44.320
<v Speaker 4>So it's it's really hard. This sport is like so

0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:46.280
<v Speaker 4>it's a it's one of the things that a lot

0:23:46.280 --> 0:23:49.560
<v Speaker 4>of people don't talk about because it's like they the

0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:52.520
<v Speaker 4>narrative of like equal prize money. And they talk about

0:23:52.520 --> 0:23:54.840
<v Speaker 4>the prize money and the money that people make to

0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:58.880
<v Speaker 4>like at the top, but you don't understand the pyramid

0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:01.600
<v Speaker 4>and the trickle down. And it's kind of crazy because

0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:04.359
<v Speaker 4>the pyramids actually like this, when you go to the top,

0:24:04.960 --> 0:24:07.639
<v Speaker 4>the people at the top get the most. So the

0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:09.920
<v Speaker 4>people at the top who have sponsors, who have all

0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:13.639
<v Speaker 4>these things, who are typically going deep in tournaments, so

0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:17.520
<v Speaker 4>making a lot of prize money, they get a lot,

0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:22.760
<v Speaker 4>like they get hotels for free, you know, cars, transportation

0:24:22.960 --> 0:24:25.920
<v Speaker 4>for free. And then as you move down where you're

0:24:25.920 --> 0:24:30.719
<v Speaker 4>making less money, you get the least, whereas like you

0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:33.720
<v Speaker 4>really have to pay and really finance and put the

0:24:33.720 --> 0:24:37.119
<v Speaker 4>bill for like everything that you're doing in your career

0:24:37.680 --> 0:24:39.760
<v Speaker 4>to try and get to this level, to try and

0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:41.880
<v Speaker 4>make it to the middle, and then you know, continue

0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:44.920
<v Speaker 4>to grow. So you know, I feel like I'm very

0:24:44.920 --> 0:24:51.000
<v Speaker 4>fortunate because I've experienced this game on every level, like

0:24:51.080 --> 0:24:55.160
<v Speaker 4>from the very bottom. Like I like for weeks at

0:24:55.160 --> 0:24:57.520
<v Speaker 4>a time, months at a time, being in the red right,

0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:00.520
<v Speaker 4>I may I one year. I want three matches in

0:25:00.520 --> 0:25:03.840
<v Speaker 4>a year, So you can imagine like how much money

0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:06.000
<v Speaker 4>because I played the entire year, I played a whole season,

0:25:06.440 --> 0:25:08.400
<v Speaker 4>so you can imagine how much money was going out

0:25:08.440 --> 0:25:12.520
<v Speaker 4>but not a lot coming in. So I've been at

0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:15.600
<v Speaker 4>that place where I've been here and worked my way

0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:18.920
<v Speaker 4>up and went back down, you know, worked my way

0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:21.880
<v Speaker 4>through every single level. So I have a true appreciation

0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:26.320
<v Speaker 4>for like every every level, I have an understanding and

0:25:26.359 --> 0:25:29.399
<v Speaker 4>I can relate to every person on every level. But

0:25:29.440 --> 0:25:32.359
<v Speaker 4>then also I have a true appreciation and gratitude like

0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:34.720
<v Speaker 4>where I am because I'm just like I know where

0:25:34.720 --> 0:25:37.080
<v Speaker 4>I came from and I know that like it was

0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:42.359
<v Speaker 4>nothing except hard work and like mental grind and like

0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:44.879
<v Speaker 4>making a decision and a choice to be like okay,

0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:46.639
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to change this. That got me out of

0:25:46.680 --> 0:25:50.240
<v Speaker 4>those places. You know. So this sport is like it

0:25:50.320 --> 0:25:54.440
<v Speaker 4>is so so so difficult, and you know it requires

0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:57.320
<v Speaker 4>it's very it's almost impossible to do on your own.

0:25:58.240 --> 0:25:59.600
<v Speaker 4>So it's really hard.

0:26:00.280 --> 0:26:04.159
<v Speaker 2>With that being said though, knowing that you're when you're

0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:06.280
<v Speaker 2>in that situation and you know you're spending more money

0:26:06.320 --> 0:26:09.400
<v Speaker 2>than you're actually bringing in as a player, mentally, how

0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:11.920
<v Speaker 2>do you deal with that? How does that impact how

0:26:11.960 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 2>you play?

0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:17.240
<v Speaker 4>I mean it was hard, but also I'm I'm the

0:26:17.320 --> 0:26:22.280
<v Speaker 4>kind of person that I thrive with chips on my shoulder.

0:26:23.680 --> 0:26:27.320
<v Speaker 4>So there were times where when let me say this,

0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:29.120
<v Speaker 4>when I got to the place in my mind where

0:26:29.119 --> 0:26:33.640
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, I'm not doing this anymore, Like I'm I

0:26:33.720 --> 0:26:35.800
<v Speaker 4>don't like where I'm at. I'm gonna make a change.

0:26:36.760 --> 0:26:39.040
<v Speaker 4>When I knew that and I went to it was like, nah,

0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:42.880
<v Speaker 4>I gotta, I gotta, I gotta win. When I made

0:26:42.880 --> 0:26:46.680
<v Speaker 4>those decisions, then it was like it was a fuel,

0:26:46.920 --> 0:26:49.520
<v Speaker 4>Like it was a like a fire where it's like, okay, Taylor,

0:26:49.680 --> 0:26:51.960
<v Speaker 4>like I'm not gonna let this person take food off

0:26:51.960 --> 0:26:53.679
<v Speaker 4>my plate. I'm not gonna let you take money out

0:26:53.680 --> 0:26:55.480
<v Speaker 4>of my pocket, you know. And even when I was

0:26:55.480 --> 0:26:57.919
<v Speaker 4>coming back, I was like, no, you're taking money out

0:26:57.920 --> 0:26:59.800
<v Speaker 4>of my son's pocket, out of you know, food out

0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:02.879
<v Speaker 4>of his place. So it's like I had to find

0:27:02.960 --> 0:27:06.520
<v Speaker 4>those motivational factors of like how to turn you know,

0:27:06.560 --> 0:27:10.159
<v Speaker 4>the situation to something where it's like fuel for me,

0:27:10.440 --> 0:27:12.240
<v Speaker 4>because if you look at it and if you're aware

0:27:12.240 --> 0:27:16.000
<v Speaker 4>of it constantly, it's so like it's such a downer

0:27:16.160 --> 0:27:17.280
<v Speaker 4>or it was just like what the hell am I

0:27:17.320 --> 0:27:19.600
<v Speaker 4>going to do? And I'm so grateful because I've had

0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:23.000
<v Speaker 4>people in my corner. Like my coach was like, Okay,

0:27:23.080 --> 0:27:25.240
<v Speaker 4>I'll pay for my flights, I'll pay for this, I'll

0:27:25.240 --> 0:27:27.520
<v Speaker 4>pay for that, and then like when you get let's

0:27:27.560 --> 0:27:29.080
<v Speaker 4>just say, when we go to a Grand Slam and

0:27:29.119 --> 0:27:30.920
<v Speaker 4>you know you were going to make X amount, then

0:27:31.440 --> 0:27:34.439
<v Speaker 4>we'll just you can reimburse me, you know. So like

0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:37.960
<v Speaker 4>I had people where it's like would even foot the

0:27:37.960 --> 0:27:41.280
<v Speaker 4>bill at the beginning to hopefully, you know, later down

0:27:41.280 --> 0:27:43.600
<v Speaker 4>the road. So it's it's also just about like being

0:27:43.640 --> 0:27:46.760
<v Speaker 4>able to have good people around you that understand because

0:27:46.840 --> 0:27:52.160
<v Speaker 4>if not, like it's it's so hard, it's so hard, like, yeah,

0:27:52.200 --> 0:27:53.280
<v Speaker 4>it's almost impossible.

0:27:54.080 --> 0:27:57.240
<v Speaker 2>So at what point did you feel like you were

0:27:57.240 --> 0:28:00.639
<v Speaker 2>really good that like, hey, I you know a lot

0:28:00.680 --> 0:28:03.720
<v Speaker 2>of people start sports and but there becomes a moment

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:06.479
<v Speaker 2>when you realize, like I'm built a little different than

0:28:06.520 --> 0:28:07.120
<v Speaker 2>everybody else.

0:28:07.119 --> 0:28:09.280
<v Speaker 1>What moment was that for you or what time was

0:28:09.280 --> 0:28:09.760
<v Speaker 1>that for you?

0:28:10.400 --> 0:28:15.520
<v Speaker 4>Well, it's it's really interesting because while the things were happening,

0:28:15.640 --> 0:28:19.560
<v Speaker 4>I didn't notice it. But now when I was removed

0:28:19.600 --> 0:28:22.760
<v Speaker 4>and I like actually was able to kind of deconstruct things,

0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:25.679
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, oh my gosh, Like it's literally been like

0:28:25.800 --> 0:28:29.320
<v Speaker 4>me versus me literally and I'm thinking that I'm like

0:28:29.359 --> 0:28:33.439
<v Speaker 4>fighting everything and everyone and like, but now that I

0:28:33.520 --> 0:28:35.280
<v Speaker 4>was able to look, I think, like, there's nobody on

0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:37.200
<v Speaker 4>my love. There was nobody doing what I was doing.

0:28:37.680 --> 0:28:40.920
<v Speaker 4>Like not a single number one junior in thirty something

0:28:40.960 --> 0:28:44.680
<v Speaker 4>years that didn't happen. Like you were winning this, this, this, this, this, this,

0:28:44.960 --> 0:28:47.480
<v Speaker 4>nobody else was doing that. You want two Grand Slams

0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:49.520
<v Speaker 4>out of four in a year, Nobody else did that,

0:28:49.800 --> 0:28:52.440
<v Speaker 4>Like you want Orange Bowl, Easter Bowl, this, Like as

0:28:52.480 --> 0:28:54.880
<v Speaker 4>a junior, this that, this, that. But I was always

0:28:54.880 --> 0:28:57.360
<v Speaker 4>trying to like prove myself and be like is this

0:28:57.400 --> 0:28:59.160
<v Speaker 4>good enough? Is this good enough? Is this good enough?

0:28:59.200 --> 0:29:01.800
<v Speaker 4>So in the moment and at the time I didn't

0:29:01.840 --> 0:29:04.160
<v Speaker 4>see I was just like, Okay, what's next, what's next?

0:29:04.360 --> 0:29:11.160
<v Speaker 4>What's next? And it's so crazy how those experiences shaped

0:29:11.560 --> 0:29:14.200
<v Speaker 4>like who I am now. Because when I won Wimbledon,

0:29:15.080 --> 0:29:18.400
<v Speaker 4>I threw a trophy party, not because I wanted to

0:29:18.400 --> 0:29:20.959
<v Speaker 4>party and because like I didn't have time to party,

0:29:21.000 --> 0:29:23.720
<v Speaker 4>but I did it because I wanted to have my

0:29:23.800 --> 0:29:27.560
<v Speaker 4>friends and my family with me to force me to

0:29:27.760 --> 0:29:30.640
<v Speaker 4>acknowledge the accomplishment that I made. Taylor, you just won

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:34.360
<v Speaker 4>Wimbledon double singles I don't care, you just want you

0:29:34.400 --> 0:29:36.840
<v Speaker 4>can look and you can open up this green case

0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:38.600
<v Speaker 4>and there is a trophy which your name on it

0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:41.600
<v Speaker 4>that says wimbleding, Like that is a big deal. And

0:29:42.400 --> 0:29:45.000
<v Speaker 4>because of my experiences, I would have just been like, Okay,

0:29:45.040 --> 0:29:46.480
<v Speaker 4>well I have to do this and this and this

0:29:46.520 --> 0:29:49.240
<v Speaker 4>and this, and like okay, that was cool, that was fun,

0:29:49.280 --> 0:29:52.320
<v Speaker 4>but what's next? And I forced myself to not do

0:29:52.360 --> 0:29:55.400
<v Speaker 4>that because of like my experiences in the past, you know,

0:29:56.080 --> 0:30:01.800
<v Speaker 4>So like the moment, I honestly didn't realize the things

0:30:01.800 --> 0:30:07.520
<v Speaker 4>that I've accomplished until like I'm this age and even now,

0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:10.880
<v Speaker 4>like I had to really I didn't really do it,

0:30:11.840 --> 0:30:13.520
<v Speaker 4>so it's kind of on my list of things, but

0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:16.240
<v Speaker 4>like really sit down and marinate in like the season

0:30:16.240 --> 0:30:21.920
<v Speaker 4>I had, like you did that, like you did these things,

0:30:22.000 --> 0:30:25.160
<v Speaker 4>you know, and like it's I realized the importance and

0:30:25.200 --> 0:30:29.480
<v Speaker 4>the value of that for me now to be able

0:30:29.520 --> 0:30:32.240
<v Speaker 4>to like fully acknowledge and embrace the things that but

0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:34.680
<v Speaker 4>then it gives me motivation for like the next, the next,

0:30:34.680 --> 0:30:36.800
<v Speaker 4>the next and next, you know, so instead of like

0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:38.719
<v Speaker 4>just being like Okay, I got do this and this

0:30:38.760 --> 0:30:42.360
<v Speaker 4>and this, like no, you accomplish this. This is how

0:30:42.440 --> 0:30:44.560
<v Speaker 4>you did it. Okay, how we're gonna get better. So

0:30:44.600 --> 0:30:48.280
<v Speaker 4>it's like it's a much more healthy process. But you know,

0:30:48.600 --> 0:30:52.760
<v Speaker 4>I didn't realize that I was good. You know, I

0:30:52.800 --> 0:30:58.280
<v Speaker 4>didn't realize that I was doing extraordinary things because it

0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:03.920
<v Speaker 4>wasn't celebrated, it wasn't acknowledged, it wasn't you know, it

0:31:04.000 --> 0:31:08.520
<v Speaker 4>wasn't really it didn't feel special. So because it didn't

0:31:08.520 --> 0:31:10.360
<v Speaker 4>feel special, like I didn't think that I was doing

0:31:10.400 --> 0:31:12.520
<v Speaker 4>anything special, and this was the environment that I was

0:31:12.920 --> 0:31:18.000
<v Speaker 4>in at all times, you know. So yeah, I don't know.

0:31:18.640 --> 0:31:21.080
<v Speaker 4>And I just actually talked about this with my coach today.

0:31:21.080 --> 0:31:23.640
<v Speaker 4>I was like, I'm the kind of person who I

0:31:23.680 --> 0:31:25.000
<v Speaker 4>have to prove it and I have to see it

0:31:25.040 --> 0:31:28.280
<v Speaker 4>before Like I don't see it beforehand, I have to

0:31:28.360 --> 0:31:32.080
<v Speaker 4>do it. And that tells me that I know that

0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:35.560
<v Speaker 4>it is you know what I mean. So like I'm

0:31:35.800 --> 0:31:37.160
<v Speaker 4>there's one of the things that I have to work

0:31:37.200 --> 0:31:40.200
<v Speaker 4>on because it's like a lot of the battles start here.

0:31:40.320 --> 0:31:42.280
<v Speaker 4>You have to know before you get out there and

0:31:42.320 --> 0:31:45.040
<v Speaker 4>start doing things. So it's one of the things that

0:31:45.080 --> 0:31:47.680
<v Speaker 4>I'm still working on to this day. I'm being honest with.

0:31:47.680 --> 0:31:50.200
<v Speaker 2>You, well, I think that's something that a lot of

0:31:50.200 --> 0:31:55.480
<v Speaker 2>women can relate to, because, you know, I think we

0:31:55.520 --> 0:31:57.440
<v Speaker 2>are living in a society in the world that often

0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:01.920
<v Speaker 2>convincess convinces us that our worth is is more diminished,

0:32:02.440 --> 0:32:05.480
<v Speaker 2>and so you sort of become in this mindset like,

0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:07.200
<v Speaker 2>am I really good? You know, we have a little

0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:10.680
<v Speaker 2>women tend to struggle, even the most accomplished women like yourself,

0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:13.480
<v Speaker 2>with a lot of self doubt. I mean, this is

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:15.360
<v Speaker 2>amazing for me to hear you say that, given that

0:32:15.400 --> 0:32:17.280
<v Speaker 2>you were number one in the world as a junior,

0:32:17.680 --> 0:32:20.080
<v Speaker 2>something that hadn't been accomplished. I believe Lindsay Davenport was

0:32:20.080 --> 0:32:23.160
<v Speaker 2>the last American before you did it. And this year,

0:32:23.240 --> 0:32:26.880
<v Speaker 2>you know, you win Wimbledon and doubles. I mean, that's

0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:29.720
<v Speaker 2>like there's points zero zeros are a one percent of

0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:32.880
<v Speaker 2>people who actually get to do that, and you are,

0:32:33.480 --> 0:32:35.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, sort of one of one of the fuse.

0:32:36.040 --> 0:32:39.560
<v Speaker 2>But going back to your time as a singles player,

0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:42.120
<v Speaker 2>not that that part of your career is over, but

0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:45.080
<v Speaker 2>when you were in juniors, I have to say I

0:32:45.320 --> 0:32:49.160
<v Speaker 2>was really flabbergasted because I was unaware you went through

0:32:49.480 --> 0:32:53.720
<v Speaker 2>quite a battle with the USTA regarding some body shaming

0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:54.560
<v Speaker 2>that they did.

0:32:55.000 --> 0:32:58.320
<v Speaker 1>And I was not aware that they could.

0:32:58.640 --> 0:33:03.240
<v Speaker 2>They had the authority to not fund you based off

0:33:03.920 --> 0:33:06.680
<v Speaker 2>how you were training. For those who were not aware

0:33:06.680 --> 0:33:09.680
<v Speaker 2>of the backstory, is that when you know, when you

0:33:09.680 --> 0:33:12.160
<v Speaker 2>were a junior player, despite the fact you were dominating

0:33:12.160 --> 0:33:16.800
<v Speaker 2>as a juniors player, they question your weight and they

0:33:16.840 --> 0:33:19.960
<v Speaker 2>questioned your fitness and they were able to that impacted

0:33:20.000 --> 0:33:23.000
<v Speaker 2>your funding and dealing with that at sixteen years old,

0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:25.440
<v Speaker 2>when a lot of us are going through a lot

0:33:25.440 --> 0:33:28.680
<v Speaker 2>of sort of different body issues, You've dealt with it

0:33:28.680 --> 0:33:32.520
<v Speaker 2>and on a very public stage. When you reflect back

0:33:32.560 --> 0:33:37.000
<v Speaker 2>on that time in your life, what is it that

0:33:37.040 --> 0:33:39.719
<v Speaker 2>you're struck by in terms of how you handle dealing

0:33:39.760 --> 0:33:43.000
<v Speaker 2>with such you know, frankly a level of public humiliation.

0:33:43.280 --> 0:33:47.200
<v Speaker 4>Yeah. I think the thing that I'm the most proud

0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:52.120
<v Speaker 4>of is that I made the decision to control the

0:33:52.200 --> 0:33:58.760
<v Speaker 4>narrative and I made the decision to not allow everyone

0:33:58.800 --> 0:34:02.480
<v Speaker 4>else to tell my story. So I said to myself,

0:34:02.520 --> 0:34:05.760
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, Okay, this sucks, Like this is terrible. I

0:34:05.800 --> 0:34:10.759
<v Speaker 4>hate talking about this. It's embarrassing, Like I'm having to

0:34:10.800 --> 0:34:13.480
<v Speaker 4>talk about it on a worldwide stage, Like this is

0:34:13.520 --> 0:34:18.000
<v Speaker 4>really embarrassing, right, and it was a catalyst effect that

0:34:18.080 --> 0:34:23.440
<v Speaker 4>I didn't even know was going to happen externally and internally. Externally,

0:34:23.480 --> 0:34:26.240
<v Speaker 4>the catalyst effect was every single time that I stepped

0:34:26.239 --> 0:34:29.600
<v Speaker 4>on the court, that was always a topic of conversation.

0:34:30.160 --> 0:34:33.560
<v Speaker 4>So whether I was playing well, if I was playing well,

0:34:34.360 --> 0:34:40.320
<v Speaker 4>like my movement, my breathing, everything was hyper analyzed because

0:34:40.360 --> 0:34:45.359
<v Speaker 4>of how I looked. So if I lost a little weight,

0:34:45.560 --> 0:34:48.680
<v Speaker 4>or if I was not bloated from my cycle, or

0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:53.080
<v Speaker 4>if I seemed or appeared smaller or more fit than

0:34:53.840 --> 0:34:59.680
<v Speaker 4>people would attribute me playing well to that and the

0:34:59.800 --> 0:35:06.440
<v Speaker 4>end eternal battle that happened was I was always questioning,

0:35:06.600 --> 0:35:09.240
<v Speaker 4>looking and trying to figure out what people were saying.

0:35:09.760 --> 0:35:12.680
<v Speaker 4>I became aware because the thing is, it's like I've

0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:15.560
<v Speaker 4>always been a bigger girl, so like as a kid,

0:35:15.600 --> 0:35:17.480
<v Speaker 4>I wasn't aware of it, because it's just like I'm

0:35:17.480 --> 0:35:19.960
<v Speaker 4>just playing right, and if I'm playing and I'm doing

0:35:19.960 --> 0:35:23.719
<v Speaker 4>what I'm supposed to do and I'm winning, Like how

0:35:23.760 --> 0:35:26.040
<v Speaker 4>I was taught and grown up, how I grew up

0:35:26.120 --> 0:35:28.480
<v Speaker 4>was like, it doesn't matter. I'm kicking ass, So you

0:35:28.480 --> 0:35:32.160
<v Speaker 4>can say whatever you want to say. The number speaks

0:35:32.160 --> 0:35:36.040
<v Speaker 4>for itself, right, The trophy speak for yourself, so you

0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:39.080
<v Speaker 4>can say whatever you want, right. So that was the mentality.

0:35:39.120 --> 0:35:42.680
<v Speaker 4>But when I got older and started dealing with when

0:35:42.719 --> 0:35:44.759
<v Speaker 4>that became something that became aware of, I was like,

0:35:44.800 --> 0:35:46.919
<v Speaker 4>oh my god. So then I started trying to figure

0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:50.319
<v Speaker 4>out what people were saying. You know, social media was new,

0:35:51.040 --> 0:35:57.680
<v Speaker 4>so you know, then people having access to you worldwide

0:35:58.600 --> 0:36:05.560
<v Speaker 4>on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram didn't exist back, but you know, Twitter, Facebook,

0:36:05.640 --> 0:36:08.760
<v Speaker 4>all of these things, and I felt like I always

0:36:08.760 --> 0:36:13.319
<v Speaker 4>had to defend myself, you know, And it was just like, no,

0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:15.880
<v Speaker 4>it wasn't I didn't play a good match because I

0:36:15.920 --> 0:36:19.160
<v Speaker 4>just played really well, or I executed my strategy or whatever.

0:36:19.680 --> 0:36:23.160
<v Speaker 4>Or I broke my opponent down. No, I did it

0:36:23.280 --> 0:36:27.160
<v Speaker 4>because I was more fit. Or I lost because I

0:36:27.200 --> 0:36:31.400
<v Speaker 4>got tired. No, I didn't get tired. Maybe I was

0:36:31.440 --> 0:36:33.520
<v Speaker 4>making too many errors I was doing. This was so

0:36:33.600 --> 0:36:37.680
<v Speaker 4>it was always a tie. And so I was proud

0:36:37.719 --> 0:36:41.319
<v Speaker 4>of the way that I didn't allow the media and

0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:43.680
<v Speaker 4>everyone else to tell my story. I was like, no,

0:36:44.640 --> 0:36:48.160
<v Speaker 4>this is what happened, but I'm here, and I basically

0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:51.799
<v Speaker 4>consciously like redirected everyone to like, no, this is what

0:36:51.840 --> 0:36:55.360
<v Speaker 4>I'm doing now, Oh, this is what's happening. No, that's cool,

0:36:55.360 --> 0:36:57.920
<v Speaker 4>that's fine, But in the midst of it, it was

0:36:57.960 --> 0:37:00.920
<v Speaker 4>a lot that I have had to ravel because it

0:37:01.000 --> 0:37:03.840
<v Speaker 4>was like a lot of my identity. And this happens

0:37:03.880 --> 0:37:06.160
<v Speaker 4>a lot in sports, especially when you play and you

0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:08.879
<v Speaker 4>become you've been engulfed at such a young age, your

0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:13.719
<v Speaker 4>identity becomes wrapped up in the sport, so it's very

0:37:13.760 --> 0:37:17.520
<v Speaker 4>hard to differentiate, like you as a person versus you

0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:20.600
<v Speaker 4>as an athlete, Like that doesn't come until later, later,

0:37:20.719 --> 0:37:25.400
<v Speaker 4>where you know, hopefully later. For me, that came, that

0:37:25.480 --> 0:37:28.440
<v Speaker 4>divergence came when I got pregnant because like I had

0:37:28.520 --> 0:37:32.920
<v Speaker 4>to step away, Like I have never had any injuries

0:37:33.200 --> 0:37:35.239
<v Speaker 4>that took me away from the sport for more than

0:37:35.680 --> 0:37:37.880
<v Speaker 4>you know, a couple of weeks if that, you know.

0:37:37.960 --> 0:37:40.719
<v Speaker 4>The injury that I had this year pre French Open

0:37:40.800 --> 0:37:42.640
<v Speaker 4>was the first time I've ever like had to withdraw

0:37:42.640 --> 0:37:45.200
<v Speaker 4>from a tournament due to an injury, so like in

0:37:45.719 --> 0:37:48.320
<v Speaker 4>eleven almost twelve years on tour, So that can say something.

0:37:48.960 --> 0:37:54.000
<v Speaker 4>So that divergence didn't happen of like until I got

0:37:54.000 --> 0:37:57.120
<v Speaker 4>pregnant and I was away for almost twenty months, and

0:37:57.160 --> 0:38:01.080
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, okay, who am I Because this is not

0:38:01.239 --> 0:38:04.239
<v Speaker 4>this isn't this isn't important right now because I can't

0:38:04.320 --> 0:38:06.319
<v Speaker 4>do it. I can't play tennis. I'm not out on

0:38:06.360 --> 0:38:10.160
<v Speaker 4>the court. I'm not competing. I'm not playing, Like, so

0:38:10.280 --> 0:38:13.520
<v Speaker 4>this doesn't matter, so like who are you? And so

0:38:13.800 --> 0:38:16.440
<v Speaker 4>like I was proud of the way that I handled that,

0:38:16.680 --> 0:38:19.399
<v Speaker 4>and even today, like, you know, it's really cool because

0:38:19.400 --> 0:38:20.719
<v Speaker 4>a lot of people, you know, they say, oh, I

0:38:20.760 --> 0:38:24.200
<v Speaker 4>admire your strength and all this stuff, and but it

0:38:24.239 --> 0:38:26.719
<v Speaker 4>is it does take strength and it's hard, but you know,

0:38:26.800 --> 0:38:29.279
<v Speaker 4>it's also growth. And I think that the cool thing

0:38:29.400 --> 0:38:32.400
<v Speaker 4>is like, which is why a lot of people like

0:38:32.520 --> 0:38:35.080
<v Speaker 4>rock with me or even my fans are like stay

0:38:35.920 --> 0:38:39.400
<v Speaker 4>down because they know, like we've been following this person

0:38:40.200 --> 0:38:42.760
<v Speaker 4>from this from the time she had braces and bows

0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:44.799
<v Speaker 4>in her hair to like all the way through. So

0:38:44.880 --> 0:38:48.279
<v Speaker 4>it's like it is a true appreciation for like, just

0:38:48.320 --> 0:38:50.040
<v Speaker 4>the same way that I have an appreciation for where

0:38:50.080 --> 0:38:53.200
<v Speaker 4>I am, I think other people have an appreciation for

0:38:53.280 --> 0:38:55.399
<v Speaker 4>being able to see how much that I've grown and

0:38:55.400 --> 0:38:58.759
<v Speaker 4>how I've been able to maneuver through these types of situations.

0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:02.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it was really remarkable to see it

0:39:02.640 --> 0:39:04.879
<v Speaker 2>in real time because I don't know that a lot

0:39:04.880 --> 0:39:07.919
<v Speaker 2>of sixteen year olds would have had the maturity, uh,

0:39:08.080 --> 0:39:10.239
<v Speaker 2>and certainly not to give voice to it on top

0:39:10.239 --> 0:39:13.160
<v Speaker 2>of that, because not only did you have to deal

0:39:13.200 --> 0:39:14.960
<v Speaker 2>with that, but you also gave voice to it and

0:39:15.080 --> 0:39:18.160
<v Speaker 2>voice to frankly, how a lot of women, and especially

0:39:18.200 --> 0:39:20.560
<v Speaker 2>black women, how their bodies are analyzed. I know Serena

0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:23.640
<v Speaker 2>Williams knows something about this because she went through some

0:39:23.719 --> 0:39:27.480
<v Speaker 2>of the same things with people in the media, which really,

0:39:27.520 --> 0:39:28.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, as a member of the media, is kind

0:39:28.960 --> 0:39:30.759
<v Speaker 2>of embarrassing. I was like, it ain't like we out

0:39:30.760 --> 0:39:33.240
<v Speaker 2>here all in shape and we got Yeah.

0:39:33.400 --> 0:39:35.439
<v Speaker 4>It's like a lot of people that's talking, and it's

0:39:35.520 --> 0:39:38.120
<v Speaker 4>like you guys couldn't even you couldn't even do what

0:39:38.160 --> 0:39:41.160
<v Speaker 4>I'm doing exactly. And that was another thing that I

0:39:41.200 --> 0:39:43.960
<v Speaker 4>started having to frame where I'm just like, okay, like

0:39:44.239 --> 0:39:49.000
<v Speaker 4>you really have to stop caring about and being so

0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:52.600
<v Speaker 4>aware of what these people say. Because I literally remember

0:39:53.040 --> 0:39:55.279
<v Speaker 4>I was down in I was down in Florida and

0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:58.520
<v Speaker 4>I was doing my laundry and I saw something on

0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:01.160
<v Speaker 4>Twitter because I had tweeted something. I was like, I'm

0:40:01.160 --> 0:40:02.640
<v Speaker 4>so excited to go home. I hadn't been home in

0:40:02.680 --> 0:40:04.799
<v Speaker 4>ten months. So I was so excited to see my dad,

0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:10.360
<v Speaker 4>my sister, everyone, and someone was like, yeah, you're excited

0:40:10.400 --> 0:40:13.160
<v Speaker 4>to go back to your cage. You like fat monkey,

0:40:13.840 --> 0:40:16.480
<v Speaker 4>like black monkey, and just like tweet tweet tweet tweet,

0:40:16.560 --> 0:40:18.319
<v Speaker 4>like so one after the other after the other. After

0:40:18.440 --> 0:40:23.120
<v Speaker 4>I was like, so, Dad, I remember like in that moment,

0:40:23.200 --> 0:40:26.840
<v Speaker 4>I'm just like wow, I'm literally just talking about how

0:40:26.840 --> 0:40:28.920
<v Speaker 4>I'm excited to go see my family. And this is

0:40:28.960 --> 0:40:35.320
<v Speaker 4>the response, Taylor, you can't make everybody happy, like you can't,

0:40:35.480 --> 0:40:40.000
<v Speaker 4>Like it's impossible. It's impossible for you to think that

0:40:40.960 --> 0:40:44.600
<v Speaker 4>you can do things to please everyone. So and I

0:40:44.680 --> 0:40:46.879
<v Speaker 4>remember thinking, I'm like in this moment, I'm like fuck

0:40:46.960 --> 0:40:49.399
<v Speaker 4>these people. It's like literally that's what I said. I

0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:49.759
<v Speaker 4>was with it.

0:40:49.800 --> 0:40:51.680
<v Speaker 1>I'd be like, man, yeah.

0:40:52.480 --> 0:40:54.080
<v Speaker 4>You know, I was like I said it, I'm like,

0:40:54.120 --> 0:40:55.840
<v Speaker 4>fuck these people. And I looked at that and I

0:40:55.880 --> 0:40:58.680
<v Speaker 4>deleted tweets. I'm like, you know what, I'm done with this.

0:40:58.920 --> 0:41:02.400
<v Speaker 4>And I remember like a change where I'm just like yeah,

0:41:02.440 --> 0:41:04.560
<v Speaker 4>like and I actually did have to go through a

0:41:04.560 --> 0:41:07.799
<v Speaker 4>point where it was like I separated myself from social media,

0:41:07.840 --> 0:41:11.960
<v Speaker 4>but now I'm like, bro, like y'all can't even and

0:41:12.040 --> 0:41:14.960
<v Speaker 4>sometimes I got time. I really do. Sometimes I have

0:41:15.000 --> 0:41:16.759
<v Speaker 4>time because I'm just like, okay, y'all a little bit

0:41:17.000 --> 0:41:21.520
<v Speaker 4>like doing too much. But it's like I really have

0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:23.200
<v Speaker 4>gotten to the ploor where I'm just like I just

0:41:23.239 --> 0:41:26.160
<v Speaker 4>don't care, Like I know the people that's in my circle,

0:41:26.239 --> 0:41:27.920
<v Speaker 4>the people that love and care about me, and they

0:41:27.960 --> 0:41:30.560
<v Speaker 4>know who I am. What you say doesn't matter, like

0:41:30.960 --> 0:41:33.200
<v Speaker 4>and it's even worse now because it's like you got

0:41:33.200 --> 0:41:35.560
<v Speaker 4>these Internet trolls that literally sit and do this all

0:41:35.640 --> 0:41:37.480
<v Speaker 4>day long and like search for stuff like this is

0:41:37.520 --> 0:41:40.919
<v Speaker 4>your job, Like you have no life. So I'm out

0:41:40.920 --> 0:41:44.000
<v Speaker 4>here actually trying to do something and be someone and

0:41:44.040 --> 0:41:47.399
<v Speaker 4>putting myself out there consistently constantly, like I'm not hiding

0:41:47.400 --> 0:41:49.279
<v Speaker 4>in the shadows. It could have been easy for me

0:41:49.480 --> 0:41:52.960
<v Speaker 4>to go no, no, no, no, I'm not doing like

0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:56.000
<v Speaker 4>I'm front facing. So it's like that takes courage, that

0:41:56.040 --> 0:42:00.719
<v Speaker 4>takes bravery. And there was no body positivity movement, so

0:42:00.920 --> 0:42:05.879
<v Speaker 4>like how it is now where there's body positivity inclusion,

0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:12.240
<v Speaker 4>like inclusion in commercials, clothing brands, all of these different

0:42:12.239 --> 0:42:15.439
<v Speaker 4>type of stuff. I don't identify as a plus sized woman.

0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:20.000
<v Speaker 4>I'm just bigger than what everyone else is, and like

0:42:20.000 --> 0:42:21.600
<v Speaker 4>I have a different body shape. I have a different

0:42:21.600 --> 0:42:25.000
<v Speaker 4>body type. I was looking at my doubles partner's legs

0:42:25.000 --> 0:42:27.640
<v Speaker 4>and my legs and I'm like, I as my coach,

0:42:27.680 --> 0:42:31.600
<v Speaker 4>I said, oh, I likeingly that big. Well, her legs

0:42:31.680 --> 0:42:34.080
<v Speaker 4>is super small. I was like, I know, it's not that.

0:42:34.440 --> 0:42:38.759
<v Speaker 4>Like it was like this and like this. I was like,

0:42:38.920 --> 0:42:41.919
<v Speaker 4>oh my god. It was a picture room standing side

0:42:41.920 --> 0:42:43.920
<v Speaker 4>by side. I was like, okay, this was like wimbled

0:42:43.960 --> 0:42:46.399
<v Speaker 4>in this. Yall was like, okay, I know that it's

0:42:46.480 --> 0:42:49.160
<v Speaker 4>not like that. So it was no, it was no

0:42:49.320 --> 0:42:52.560
<v Speaker 4>body positivity movement during that time where it was just

0:42:52.600 --> 0:42:55.360
<v Speaker 4>like this was some first of all, something I was

0:42:55.360 --> 0:42:59.200
<v Speaker 4>talked about, something that was accepted, where it was just

0:42:59.280 --> 0:43:03.680
<v Speaker 4>like there was a mental acceptance of like especially in sport,

0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:08.480
<v Speaker 4>of like different shapes and sizes that can still be effective,

0:43:08.640 --> 0:43:11.480
<v Speaker 4>you know, not saying that like I can't be better,

0:43:12.360 --> 0:43:15.439
<v Speaker 4>get better, be more in shape, get more fit, get

0:43:15.440 --> 0:43:18.560
<v Speaker 4>more ripped up. Of course I can, yes, But so

0:43:18.760 --> 0:43:21.839
<v Speaker 4>I'm not naive to the fact of like I know

0:43:22.040 --> 0:43:25.120
<v Speaker 4>the areas in which I need to progress, but that

0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:29.200
<v Speaker 4>doesn't make me any less or worse or whatever the

0:43:29.239 --> 0:43:31.279
<v Speaker 4>case may be. So it was just a lot of

0:43:31.320 --> 0:43:34.160
<v Speaker 4>things where it's just like during and in the times,

0:43:34.239 --> 0:43:37.120
<v Speaker 4>like we're talking ten years ago, like we're in the time.

0:43:38.320 --> 0:43:42.600
<v Speaker 4>These things didn't no, not even twelve years ago, like anger, yeah,

0:43:42.719 --> 0:43:46.200
<v Speaker 4>twelve thirteen years ago, Like these topics didn't exist. So

0:43:46.920 --> 0:43:48.600
<v Speaker 4>it was something where I felt like I was kind

0:43:48.640 --> 0:43:50.799
<v Speaker 4>of like having to forge like through on my own

0:43:50.880 --> 0:43:55.440
<v Speaker 4>and you know, doing it at sixteen, like as a teenager,

0:43:56.000 --> 0:43:58.480
<v Speaker 4>all types of things to change, and like it was

0:43:58.520 --> 0:44:01.480
<v Speaker 4>just it was crazy time. It's crazy work. But honestly

0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:05.239
<v Speaker 4>I appreciate it because it honestly it's made me like

0:44:05.520 --> 0:44:08.040
<v Speaker 4>who I am. And it also again just to kind

0:44:08.040 --> 0:44:10.200
<v Speaker 4>of circle back, taught me how to deal with tough

0:44:10.239 --> 0:44:14.000
<v Speaker 4>shit like from a public front facing standpoint. So I

0:44:14.040 --> 0:44:15.799
<v Speaker 4>was like, OK, if I can deal with that or

0:44:15.840 --> 0:44:18.000
<v Speaker 4>people call me fat this that, and the third like

0:44:18.920 --> 0:44:22.640
<v Speaker 4>I can deal with whatever else. Like the other stuff

0:44:22.760 --> 0:44:24.880
<v Speaker 4>is is like this.

0:44:25.920 --> 0:44:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, I have a lot more I want to get

0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:30.040
<v Speaker 2>to with you, because I know we only have a

0:44:30.080 --> 0:44:31.319
<v Speaker 2>short amount of talent here.

0:44:31.440 --> 0:44:33.200
<v Speaker 1>Got to ask you of course with your time with

0:44:33.280 --> 0:44:33.719
<v Speaker 1>Cardi B.

0:44:34.480 --> 0:44:37.120
<v Speaker 2>So that is coming up after the break and we'll

0:44:37.160 --> 0:44:49.200
<v Speaker 2>have more with Taylor Townsend. I want to quickly go

0:44:49.239 --> 0:44:51.080
<v Speaker 2>back to something that you said in your answer when

0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I was asking about the body shaming that you went to.

0:44:53.560 --> 0:44:54.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's so funny.

0:44:54.320 --> 0:44:56.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm so glad that you pointed out the fact that

0:44:56.480 --> 0:44:58.279
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't that you were ever big. It's just that

0:44:58.360 --> 0:45:01.560
<v Speaker 2>maybe compared to other tennis player body just looks different.

0:45:01.719 --> 0:45:02.440
<v Speaker 1>Because I swear to.

0:45:02.400 --> 0:45:04.359
<v Speaker 2>God, when I go back and watch your highlights and

0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:06.880
<v Speaker 2>remembering you at that time, I'm like, wait a minute,

0:45:06.920 --> 0:45:11.240
<v Speaker 2>what like they consider her to be out of shape

0:45:11.320 --> 0:45:15.040
<v Speaker 2>and girls? So when you go back, because I mean

0:45:15.080 --> 0:45:17.279
<v Speaker 2>I do that too, just with normal pictures from like

0:45:17.520 --> 0:45:19.480
<v Speaker 2>high school or college when I thought I was like.

0:45:19.600 --> 0:45:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Big, and I'm like, what was I thinking?

0:45:21.360 --> 0:45:21.560
<v Speaker 4>Man?

0:45:22.120 --> 0:45:25.640
<v Speaker 2>When you look back at those images and even maybe

0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:27.799
<v Speaker 2>some of your highlights or whatever, are you thinking like

0:45:27.960 --> 0:45:29.279
<v Speaker 2>what what were they on?

0:45:29.719 --> 0:45:34.320
<v Speaker 4>Like, girl, I haven't looked at that stuff for so long. Yeah,

0:45:34.360 --> 0:45:36.560
<v Speaker 4>I don't even go back and look because I just know.

0:45:36.680 --> 0:45:39.920
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, you are a kid. You are a child.

0:45:40.200 --> 0:45:45.560
<v Speaker 4>Like you are. I know as a grown woman, how

0:45:45.600 --> 0:45:47.640
<v Speaker 4>I feel and what happens to my body when my

0:45:47.680 --> 0:45:53.120
<v Speaker 4>cycle comes. So this is like times ten as a

0:45:53.239 --> 0:45:58.000
<v Speaker 4>child when you're going through puberty, like I'm had braces,

0:45:58.360 --> 0:46:04.719
<v Speaker 4>face changing, Like I'm like, you're a child, Likes I

0:46:04.760 --> 0:46:06.520
<v Speaker 4>don't even go back and look at that stuff. Like

0:46:06.560 --> 0:46:08.880
<v Speaker 4>I've seen old pictures and there are times when I'm

0:46:08.920 --> 0:46:10.879
<v Speaker 4>like why people using these pictures, Like I don't even

0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:15.120
<v Speaker 4>look like that. But it's like I don't even go back.

0:46:15.200 --> 0:46:16.840
<v Speaker 4>But if I do it, or if I see it

0:46:16.880 --> 0:46:20.240
<v Speaker 4>and it comes up, I'm just like no. Like whatever

0:46:20.360 --> 0:46:22.839
<v Speaker 4>they was talking about, should I pay money to get

0:46:22.840 --> 0:46:23.560
<v Speaker 4>back I.

0:46:25.640 --> 0:46:27.319
<v Speaker 1>Look at an old picture. I said the same thing.

0:46:27.360 --> 0:46:29.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, you know what if I go back to

0:46:29.360 --> 0:46:31.359
<v Speaker 2>that junior year in college, Man, I do that in a.

0:46:31.360 --> 0:46:35.080
<v Speaker 4>Minute here complaining. I'm just like, I gotta work ten

0:46:35.160 --> 0:46:38.960
<v Speaker 4>times harder now because it's a little slower burn. Yeah.

0:46:39.000 --> 0:46:41.440
<v Speaker 2>Well, and that's a great transition because I wanted to

0:46:41.480 --> 0:46:43.560
<v Speaker 2>ask you, I mean your your your son is now

0:46:43.600 --> 0:46:44.440
<v Speaker 2>three years old.

0:46:44.719 --> 0:46:46.440
<v Speaker 1>You know you you play.

0:46:46.320 --> 0:46:49.719
<v Speaker 2>Pregnant and you said up until the day before you

0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:53.400
<v Speaker 2>get to go to the hospital. So you know, given

0:46:53.440 --> 0:46:55.240
<v Speaker 2>all things that you had gone through in your career,

0:46:55.280 --> 0:46:59.440
<v Speaker 2>and we see that female athletes when it comes to

0:46:59.760 --> 0:47:02.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, pregnancy and post pregnancy. You know, they admitted

0:47:02.960 --> 0:47:04.400
<v Speaker 2>there was just a lot of things they had to

0:47:04.400 --> 0:47:08.320
<v Speaker 2>get over that they didn't anticipate. The postpartum looks different

0:47:08.800 --> 0:47:14.600
<v Speaker 2>for you, so overall, like for your experience, particularly in

0:47:14.680 --> 0:47:18.880
<v Speaker 2>post pregnancy, how did you handle putting the pressure on

0:47:18.920 --> 0:47:21.440
<v Speaker 2>yourself to you know, because we live in snapback culture,

0:47:21.520 --> 0:47:24.439
<v Speaker 2>how did you handle that aspect of it in terms

0:47:24.440 --> 0:47:26.319
<v Speaker 2>of dealing with your body and the changes it was

0:47:26.360 --> 0:47:26.839
<v Speaker 2>going through.

0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:30.600
<v Speaker 4>You know what's crazy, I suffer more from the snapback

0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:33.520
<v Speaker 4>thing now than I did back then because I look

0:47:33.520 --> 0:47:40.799
<v Speaker 4>at people, like six months back on court Plan, I

0:47:40.920 --> 0:47:46.080
<v Speaker 4>was like, how wow, I was still expanding in six months,

0:47:46.880 --> 0:47:54.279
<v Speaker 4>Like I was like what like? But also this whole

0:47:54.280 --> 0:47:56.480
<v Speaker 4>situation like so I actually look at that because I'm

0:47:56.520 --> 0:48:02.600
<v Speaker 4>just like I. But then it's another thing where I'm like,

0:48:03.080 --> 0:48:07.080
<v Speaker 4>they got different bodies, they got different you know, genetics

0:48:07.160 --> 0:48:09.719
<v Speaker 4>everything like that. I don't know the situation with how

0:48:09.719 --> 0:48:12.560
<v Speaker 4>they breastfed, right. I breastfed my son for a year,

0:48:13.239 --> 0:48:18.239
<v Speaker 4>so that automatically is different boobs out to here. You know,

0:48:18.480 --> 0:48:21.719
<v Speaker 4>like in six months, I was a stay at home

0:48:21.719 --> 0:48:24.359
<v Speaker 4>I'm for seven months straight, Like, I did not pick

0:48:24.440 --> 0:48:26.920
<v Speaker 4>up a racket, go to the gym or nothing until

0:48:26.960 --> 0:48:28.720
<v Speaker 4>my son. I didn't start going to the gym until

0:48:28.719 --> 0:48:31.439
<v Speaker 4>my son was seven months because like, but I made

0:48:31.440 --> 0:48:33.680
<v Speaker 4>that decision for myself because I was like, I want

0:48:33.680 --> 0:48:36.000
<v Speaker 4>to know what it's like to be a mom. I

0:48:36.000 --> 0:48:38.279
<v Speaker 4>don't want to put the pressure on myself to have

0:48:38.360 --> 0:48:41.080
<v Speaker 4>to go do anything, Like I want to have a

0:48:41.200 --> 0:48:45.880
<v Speaker 4>solid foundation with my son, understand him, so that because

0:48:45.920 --> 0:48:48.760
<v Speaker 4>I understand my mom, like I can't do this alone,

0:48:49.600 --> 0:48:52.279
<v Speaker 4>Like I can't think that I can take him to

0:48:52.360 --> 0:48:56.600
<v Speaker 4>practice and practice for two or three hours with no interruptions.

0:48:56.440 --> 0:49:00.279
<v Speaker 4>It's not possible. So I know I need help. So

0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:02.799
<v Speaker 4>I'm going to have to have someone that comes in,

0:49:03.040 --> 0:49:05.520
<v Speaker 4>and I want to be able to explain to this

0:49:05.600 --> 0:49:08.960
<v Speaker 4>person this is the tendencies, this is how he acts,

0:49:09.320 --> 0:49:11.520
<v Speaker 4>this is what to look for, da da da da,

0:49:11.840 --> 0:49:14.319
<v Speaker 4>And if there's something outside of that that they tell me,

0:49:14.360 --> 0:49:16.799
<v Speaker 4>then I know that there's something outside of that, you know.

0:49:17.200 --> 0:49:20.080
<v Speaker 4>So I wanted to that was more important to me

0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:23.960
<v Speaker 4>than anything in the world. So and it worked out

0:49:23.960 --> 0:49:28.480
<v Speaker 4>well for me, Like that's okay, But yeah, the snapback

0:49:28.520 --> 0:49:33.640
<v Speaker 4>culture is crazy, like it's it's so like to me,

0:49:33.719 --> 0:49:37.319
<v Speaker 4>it's unrealistic. But what gives me the motivation and the

0:49:37.360 --> 0:49:39.919
<v Speaker 4>strength is that the work that I had to put

0:49:39.960 --> 0:49:43.000
<v Speaker 4>into just like just step back out on this sport.

0:49:43.680 --> 0:49:45.960
<v Speaker 4>Like I said, I made a proclamation to myself that

0:49:46.000 --> 0:49:47.839
<v Speaker 4>I said, I will not return back to play until

0:49:48.080 --> 0:49:51.720
<v Speaker 4>unless I'm better than I was when I was leaving.

0:49:52.160 --> 0:49:54.919
<v Speaker 4>If I'm not better, I'm not coming back until I'm better.

0:49:55.280 --> 0:49:57.200
<v Speaker 4>So I made that proclamation to myself. I didn't know

0:49:57.239 --> 0:49:59.000
<v Speaker 4>how long I was going to take. I didn't know

0:49:59.040 --> 0:50:02.160
<v Speaker 4>how like what that looked like. I said that and

0:50:02.239 --> 0:50:04.240
<v Speaker 4>it sounded great, but I didn't know what that meant

0:50:05.120 --> 0:50:07.640
<v Speaker 4>until I was in it. I was like, oh my god,

0:50:08.280 --> 0:50:12.399
<v Speaker 4>oh wow, there's a lot of work. But so that's

0:50:12.400 --> 0:50:15.359
<v Speaker 4>honestly what gives me the strength and like to know,

0:50:15.480 --> 0:50:18.319
<v Speaker 4>like I had to lose almost one hundred pounds, like

0:50:18.360 --> 0:50:20.600
<v Speaker 4>a lot of people don't know that. Like I was huge,

0:50:21.360 --> 0:50:26.279
<v Speaker 4>and you know, breastfeeding, you know, having to I was.

0:50:26.440 --> 0:50:29.040
<v Speaker 4>I was waking up at four in the morning to

0:50:29.200 --> 0:50:35.400
<v Speaker 4>pump before fitness, after working out, pump again, pump before practice.

0:50:36.400 --> 0:50:38.640
<v Speaker 4>You know, like doing all of these things like I

0:50:38.680 --> 0:50:42.880
<v Speaker 4>had to. It was work. It was hard work, and

0:50:42.960 --> 0:50:45.719
<v Speaker 4>so it gives me so much strength and motivation because

0:50:45.760 --> 0:50:48.400
<v Speaker 4>I'm like, I know what I did, So it's like

0:50:48.800 --> 0:50:51.920
<v Speaker 4>there's where it's like it's easy for people on the

0:50:51.960 --> 0:50:55.319
<v Speaker 4>outside to kind of like diminish things that you've done

0:50:55.360 --> 0:50:58.520
<v Speaker 4>based on their opinions and things. But I'm like, with

0:50:58.640 --> 0:51:03.080
<v Speaker 4>this particular situation, I know what I went through, I

0:51:03.239 --> 0:51:05.239
<v Speaker 4>know what I did, I know the work that I

0:51:05.280 --> 0:51:08.560
<v Speaker 4>put in. I know that had a whole day with

0:51:08.640 --> 0:51:10.680
<v Speaker 4>a baby and I had to find time while he's

0:51:10.800 --> 0:51:13.520
<v Speaker 4>napping or when he's down in this to get my

0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:15.560
<v Speaker 4>little workouts in and do what I had to do

0:51:15.680 --> 0:51:19.200
<v Speaker 4>and starve myself and you know all of the things.

0:51:19.280 --> 0:51:23.960
<v Speaker 4>Like so there's nothing because there was nobody around. There

0:51:24.000 --> 0:51:25.799
<v Speaker 4>was no glitz, there was no glamour, there was no

0:51:26.840 --> 0:51:29.759
<v Speaker 4>observation outside of myself and the people close to me.

0:51:30.000 --> 0:51:33.040
<v Speaker 4>So I'm like, I know what I did to be here,

0:51:33.480 --> 0:51:37.120
<v Speaker 4>So like that fuels me because I know, like, first

0:51:37.160 --> 0:51:39.440
<v Speaker 4>of all, it's it's I'm grateful to be on the

0:51:39.440 --> 0:51:42.120
<v Speaker 4>tennis court. I'm grateful to be here because like even

0:51:42.120 --> 0:51:45.479
<v Speaker 4>for me, I had a fantastic pregnancy emergency sea section

0:51:46.560 --> 0:51:50.840
<v Speaker 4>out of nowhere. Didn't expect that, didn't whatever, but it

0:51:50.880 --> 0:51:51.480
<v Speaker 4>had to happen.

0:51:51.880 --> 0:51:54.680
<v Speaker 2>So it's like, how did that impact your recovery? Well, yeah,

0:51:54.840 --> 0:51:57.120
<v Speaker 2>I think this assumption that if you get a C

0:51:57.320 --> 0:52:00.000
<v Speaker 2>section is all good. Oh no, they heard from many

0:52:00.280 --> 0:52:01.799
<v Speaker 2>about this real process, Like.

0:52:01.760 --> 0:52:02.799
<v Speaker 1>What was what was that?

0:52:03.000 --> 0:52:05.520
<v Speaker 4>It was so hard because I've never had surgery before,

0:52:05.880 --> 0:52:09.120
<v Speaker 4>so like I couldn't get up on my own, I

0:52:09.120 --> 0:52:11.439
<v Speaker 4>couldn't sit down by myself. I couldn't sit on the toilet,

0:52:11.440 --> 0:52:14.520
<v Speaker 4>I couldn't want my ass so I'm like I couldn't

0:52:14.560 --> 0:52:16.799
<v Speaker 4>shower on my own, Like for two weeks, I didn't

0:52:16.840 --> 0:52:18.799
<v Speaker 4>go up or down my steps, so my sister had

0:52:18.840 --> 0:52:23.520
<v Speaker 4>to bring everything to me up. Like it was really

0:52:23.560 --> 0:52:27.240
<v Speaker 4>really hard psychologically as well, because I'm a very self

0:52:27.280 --> 0:52:31.280
<v Speaker 4>I'm an independent person, you know, so for me psychologically,

0:52:31.320 --> 0:52:33.239
<v Speaker 4>like I can't tell how many times I broke down

0:52:33.520 --> 0:52:36.640
<v Speaker 4>because it's just like I don't like asking for help,

0:52:37.600 --> 0:52:40.880
<v Speaker 4>So even psychologically, how many times I had to be

0:52:40.880 --> 0:52:42.960
<v Speaker 4>like can you help me? Can you help me? Can

0:52:43.000 --> 0:52:44.839
<v Speaker 4>you help me? Then I started feeling guilty for how

0:52:44.840 --> 0:52:47.120
<v Speaker 4>many times I had why do you go to the bathroom? Now?

0:52:47.239 --> 0:52:50.080
<v Speaker 4>I need to be again? You know, It's just like

0:52:50.560 --> 0:52:55.080
<v Speaker 4>it was hard, like psychologically for somebody who is independent,

0:52:55.080 --> 0:52:57.080
<v Speaker 4>who's been doing things on their own since they're fourteen

0:52:57.160 --> 0:52:59.719
<v Speaker 4>years old, like to have to ask to do everything.

0:53:00.440 --> 0:53:03.520
<v Speaker 4>It is very difficult. And even with that, then it

0:53:03.560 --> 0:53:09.160
<v Speaker 4>was just like, okay, I remember going outside. Finally cool,

0:53:09.320 --> 0:53:12.160
<v Speaker 4>three weeks, finally can go outside. I wasn't scared to

0:53:12.160 --> 0:53:13.640
<v Speaker 4>go up or down the steps because they were like,

0:53:13.719 --> 0:53:15.680
<v Speaker 4>be careful with that because you can rip the stitches,

0:53:15.719 --> 0:53:18.000
<v Speaker 4>and then that's a whole other problem. No, thank you.

0:53:18.560 --> 0:53:22.000
<v Speaker 4>So finally go outside, all right, take the baby on

0:53:22.000 --> 0:53:26.080
<v Speaker 4>the walk. Okay. I made it to the stop side

0:53:27.400 --> 0:53:29.359
<v Speaker 4>at the end of the block that's three houses, one,

0:53:29.400 --> 0:53:33.960
<v Speaker 4>two three. I was like, shit, I'm tired. And it

0:53:34.080 --> 0:53:36.640
<v Speaker 4>was like I turned around, turned tollaid. Damn, I gotta

0:53:36.680 --> 0:53:39.839
<v Speaker 4>go back. I gotta make it back. You went down,

0:53:39.880 --> 0:53:42.880
<v Speaker 4>you gotta get back. Oh okay, let me take a

0:53:42.880 --> 0:53:43.480
<v Speaker 4>great hold on.

0:53:44.200 --> 0:53:47.960
<v Speaker 2>Like, even with all that you've gone through though and

0:53:48.680 --> 0:53:51.680
<v Speaker 2>recovery and all of that, how would you say, though,

0:53:51.760 --> 0:53:55.240
<v Speaker 2>that motherhood has made you a better tennis player.

0:53:55.360 --> 0:53:58.440
<v Speaker 4>Oh, it's it's completely changed me. It's first of all,

0:53:58.440 --> 0:54:01.200
<v Speaker 4>I was giving me a different level of motor because

0:54:03.560 --> 0:54:08.680
<v Speaker 4>I have something outside of myself. You know. It's just

0:54:08.719 --> 0:54:10.640
<v Speaker 4>like before it was just like, yeah, this is my goal,

0:54:10.760 --> 0:54:12.480
<v Speaker 4>Like this is what I want. I want right but

0:54:12.560 --> 0:54:14.359
<v Speaker 4>now you have someone else depending on you, and that's

0:54:14.400 --> 0:54:19.520
<v Speaker 4>a completely different feeling. That's completely different motivation. Also, a

0:54:19.600 --> 0:54:24.080
<v Speaker 4>big thing that motherhood has changed is the fact that

0:54:25.560 --> 0:54:32.160
<v Speaker 4>losses or wins aren't so you know more so losses

0:54:32.680 --> 0:54:37.279
<v Speaker 4>like losses aren't so bad because I know it's not

0:54:37.320 --> 0:54:39.400
<v Speaker 4>the end of the world. Before it was like I

0:54:39.520 --> 0:54:42.840
<v Speaker 4>was sold for two days, three days, like just feeling bad,

0:54:42.960 --> 0:54:46.799
<v Speaker 4>you know whatever. But now it's like I can call

0:54:46.920 --> 0:54:49.879
<v Speaker 4>and be like, hey, mommy, you're doing great. You did

0:54:49.920 --> 0:54:52.640
<v Speaker 4>so good, you look so nice. And Aj is like

0:54:52.719 --> 0:54:55.160
<v Speaker 4>he's so like in touch with his feelings and emotions,

0:54:55.200 --> 0:54:57.279
<v Speaker 4>so he'll just like be like, mommy, I love you.

0:54:59.320 --> 0:55:04.200
<v Speaker 4>So it's like, even with that, it gives me the

0:55:04.239 --> 0:55:08.200
<v Speaker 4>ability to kind of like not sit in things so long.

0:55:08.680 --> 0:55:10.759
<v Speaker 4>You can feel it, but it's just like, okay, I

0:55:10.800 --> 0:55:15.160
<v Speaker 4>can move. It helped me to move on faster, and

0:55:16.120 --> 0:55:18.600
<v Speaker 4>it's super special because just like I know that like

0:55:18.719 --> 0:55:22.160
<v Speaker 4>even when I'm done. That was another scary thing. I

0:55:22.160 --> 0:55:24.360
<v Speaker 4>didn't know what I was going to do when I

0:55:24.400 --> 0:55:28.440
<v Speaker 4>was done playing tennis, because again, identity and sense of

0:55:28.480 --> 0:55:31.920
<v Speaker 4>self is so wrapped up and you're on court and

0:55:31.960 --> 0:55:34.400
<v Speaker 4>who you are in this world right, So I didn't know.

0:55:35.080 --> 0:55:38.080
<v Speaker 4>But then now I'm just like, it has given me

0:55:38.120 --> 0:55:40.720
<v Speaker 4>the motivation to be like, Okay, there's so many things

0:55:40.719 --> 0:55:42.960
<v Speaker 4>that I want to do, and you know, even looking

0:55:43.000 --> 0:55:45.560
<v Speaker 4>forward to just being home and spending time with my child,

0:55:45.640 --> 0:55:49.760
<v Speaker 4>like that's enough for me, you know. So it's definitely

0:55:49.840 --> 0:55:53.200
<v Speaker 4>changed my perspective in terms of like what's important, you know,

0:55:53.280 --> 0:55:55.720
<v Speaker 4>And I realized I'm not saying that tennis is less important,

0:55:56.280 --> 0:55:56.919
<v Speaker 4>but it's just.

0:55:56.880 --> 0:56:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Not everybody whole identity is wrapped up into it, maybe

0:56:02.440 --> 0:56:05.120
<v Speaker 2>like it was before. One kind of question before we

0:56:05.160 --> 0:56:09.839
<v Speaker 2>get to the messy question of the podcast, what Yes,

0:56:10.000 --> 0:56:12.880
<v Speaker 2>Gotta ask you a messy question? So, how would you

0:56:13.680 --> 0:56:17.160
<v Speaker 2>characterize or rate the support because this is also something

0:56:17.160 --> 0:56:19.319
<v Speaker 2>that a lot of fans and people who are just

0:56:19.360 --> 0:56:21.919
<v Speaker 2>casual observers don't know about. There's quite a few women

0:56:21.960 --> 0:56:25.759
<v Speaker 2>who are mothers on the tour, So where is the

0:56:25.800 --> 0:56:29.520
<v Speaker 2>tour in terms of supporting mothers on the tour?

0:56:29.760 --> 0:56:32.439
<v Speaker 1>Like what how would you characterize that support?

0:56:32.680 --> 0:56:34.800
<v Speaker 4>I think it's so I would characterize it as a

0:56:34.840 --> 0:56:41.080
<v Speaker 4>work in progress, like like any like all sports. Really,

0:56:41.640 --> 0:56:45.200
<v Speaker 4>until you had those people who did it, it was

0:56:45.760 --> 0:56:48.080
<v Speaker 4>one of the things where it's like women had to choose.

0:56:48.120 --> 0:56:50.640
<v Speaker 4>If I'm want a family, then I have to stop,

0:56:51.080 --> 0:56:55.439
<v Speaker 4>I have to retire. Like coming back wasn't really think.

0:56:56.080 --> 0:56:59.120
<v Speaker 4>You know, Kim Kleiser's was the first one to have

0:56:59.239 --> 0:57:02.960
<v Speaker 4>kids come back win a slam, and it was I

0:57:03.000 --> 0:57:05.359
<v Speaker 4>remember that, and I remember watching and when she brought

0:57:05.360 --> 0:57:08.799
<v Speaker 4>her daughter on this on the court like on ash

0:57:09.000 --> 0:57:11.600
<v Speaker 4>during her trophy ceremony, I'm like, well, that's so cool,

0:57:11.719 --> 0:57:15.080
<v Speaker 4>like imagine I couldn't imagine back think so I was

0:57:15.120 --> 0:57:17.840
<v Speaker 4>so young. And also I didn't, to be honest, I

0:57:17.880 --> 0:57:21.280
<v Speaker 4>didn't want kids. So it's kind of like a crazy

0:57:21.280 --> 0:57:23.680
<v Speaker 4>thing where like so maternal. I did not want kids.

0:57:23.720 --> 0:57:25.880
<v Speaker 4>I was like, when I'm done playing, I wouldn't be

0:57:25.920 --> 0:57:27.680
<v Speaker 4>able to have my time to do what I want,

0:57:28.040 --> 0:57:30.000
<v Speaker 4>like you know, we travel, we do all this stuff,

0:57:30.000 --> 0:57:34.040
<v Speaker 4>Like I just want to freedom, right. So I think

0:57:34.120 --> 0:57:37.760
<v Speaker 4>that it's a work in progress. Now that it's happening

0:57:37.800 --> 0:57:41.600
<v Speaker 4>more and more, I think that it's something where they

0:57:41.600 --> 0:57:45.360
<v Speaker 4>can't deny it. And you know, so they have you know,

0:57:46.240 --> 0:57:49.840
<v Speaker 4>daycares or they call them crushes at the tennis sites

0:57:49.880 --> 0:57:53.120
<v Speaker 4>where you can you know, basically bring your kid and

0:57:53.360 --> 0:57:58.360
<v Speaker 4>leave them for the day and you know, they have

0:57:58.760 --> 0:58:02.640
<v Speaker 4>helped to be able to you maybe give room preferences

0:58:02.760 --> 0:58:05.760
<v Speaker 4>or bigger room options if you're going to have your

0:58:05.840 --> 0:58:07.800
<v Speaker 4>child with you. So it's like let's just say you

0:58:07.920 --> 0:58:10.520
<v Speaker 4>have to pay way way way more for a suite

0:58:10.720 --> 0:58:13.480
<v Speaker 4>or for you know whatever, like maybe there's more options

0:58:13.520 --> 0:58:19.920
<v Speaker 4>to have those available if you're bringing your child with you.

0:58:19.920 --> 0:58:22.520
<v Speaker 4>You know, I'm an executive member of the PTOPA, and

0:58:22.680 --> 0:58:27.840
<v Speaker 4>that's a big, you know, kind of focus for them

0:58:27.960 --> 0:58:32.160
<v Speaker 4>is being able to help represent you know, all athletes

0:58:32.200 --> 0:58:35.400
<v Speaker 4>and the athletes being moms as well. So you know,

0:58:36.000 --> 0:58:39.200
<v Speaker 4>there's not a great system for insurance. You know, there's

0:58:39.240 --> 0:58:42.120
<v Speaker 4>not a great system for making sure that you're taken

0:58:42.160 --> 0:58:44.280
<v Speaker 4>care of and if it's fine for the player, but

0:58:44.320 --> 0:58:46.400
<v Speaker 4>if you want to add someone as expensive as hell,

0:58:46.920 --> 0:58:49.520
<v Speaker 4>you know. So it's like if you're traveling internationally with

0:58:49.560 --> 0:58:52.520
<v Speaker 4>a child, you want to make sure that they're covered

0:58:52.560 --> 0:58:58.360
<v Speaker 4>if anything were to go wrong. So there's definitely parts

0:58:58.560 --> 0:59:03.360
<v Speaker 4>that are being addressed, but there are a lot of

0:59:03.680 --> 0:59:08.520
<v Speaker 4>other things that I feel like can be better. And

0:59:09.440 --> 0:59:13.400
<v Speaker 4>you know, whether it be financial support, whether it be

0:59:13.440 --> 0:59:15.400
<v Speaker 4>whatever the case may be, where it's like you know

0:59:15.560 --> 0:59:19.840
<v Speaker 4>their specific situation because being a being getting pregnant is

0:59:19.880 --> 0:59:23.760
<v Speaker 4>like a unique scenario and situation to only women and

0:59:23.760 --> 0:59:28.160
<v Speaker 4>to like this small subset of people. Right, So it's

0:59:28.200 --> 0:59:32.000
<v Speaker 4>not something that you can fake or you know, you

0:59:32.040 --> 0:59:34.360
<v Speaker 4>can fake an injury or say I'm hurt to get

0:59:34.360 --> 0:59:36.880
<v Speaker 4>time off, right, This is not something like that. So

0:59:37.120 --> 0:59:39.600
<v Speaker 4>you know, I feel like there can be other things

0:59:39.640 --> 0:59:41.880
<v Speaker 4>or other initiatives put in place to kind of help

0:59:42.880 --> 0:59:48.600
<v Speaker 4>bring make it easier, you know, for me, Like personally,

0:59:48.640 --> 0:59:51.640
<v Speaker 4>I travel a lot on my own because I don't

0:59:51.640 --> 0:59:57.840
<v Speaker 4>feel like it's easy or there's a ease about traveling

0:59:58.520 --> 1:00:00.840
<v Speaker 4>with a child, you know. And again, and like I said,

1:00:00.920 --> 1:00:03.680
<v Speaker 4>I'm very fortunate because I have an amazing I have help,

1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:08.720
<v Speaker 4>and you know it's not free, but it's fantastic. But

1:00:09.200 --> 1:00:13.520
<v Speaker 4>you know, even with that, I got a grant while

1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:15.680
<v Speaker 4>I was pregnant or like right after I got pregnant

1:00:15.680 --> 1:00:18.400
<v Speaker 4>with or right after I had AJ from the Women's

1:00:18.440 --> 1:00:23.280
<v Speaker 4>Sports Foundation for twenty thousand and it was through an

1:00:23.280 --> 1:00:28.800
<v Speaker 4>initiative with Alison Felix and the Women's Sports Foundation, And

1:00:29.480 --> 1:00:32.440
<v Speaker 4>you know, I put that towards my nanny, and I

1:00:32.480 --> 1:00:34.360
<v Speaker 4>was just like this was so helpful because it's like,

1:00:34.680 --> 1:00:36.720
<v Speaker 4>you know, I'm not playing, I'm not making any money.

1:00:36.800 --> 1:00:39.080
<v Speaker 4>I don't have sponsors, so it's just like I didn't

1:00:39.120 --> 1:00:42.440
<v Speaker 4>have any residual income. So to be able to receive

1:00:42.480 --> 1:00:44.720
<v Speaker 4>something like that was like huge for me because that

1:00:44.800 --> 1:00:46.800
<v Speaker 4>was able to take a lot off of my plate

1:00:46.840 --> 1:00:49.040
<v Speaker 4>for at least a little bit of top for some months. Right.

1:00:49.680 --> 1:00:53.800
<v Speaker 4>So even having initiatives putting him in like that through

1:00:53.840 --> 1:00:59.760
<v Speaker 4>our organizations or through sponsorships of the organizations like that

1:01:00.120 --> 1:01:03.480
<v Speaker 4>be really helpful because so many things fall on us

1:01:03.520 --> 1:01:06.120
<v Speaker 4>as athletes and as players, Like there's very few things

1:01:06.120 --> 1:01:08.840
<v Speaker 4>that are taken care of by the tournaments, by the tours,

1:01:09.480 --> 1:01:11.840
<v Speaker 4>So to be able to kind of like offset some

1:01:11.880 --> 1:01:14.680
<v Speaker 4>of those costs that you that you have when you're

1:01:14.720 --> 1:01:17.960
<v Speaker 4>away from the game for however long, then that could

1:01:18.000 --> 1:01:21.480
<v Speaker 4>be really helpful. And also it can help to not

1:01:21.520 --> 1:01:23.840
<v Speaker 4>feel like I have to rush to get back.

1:01:23.720 --> 1:01:25.920
<v Speaker 1>On tour, you know.

1:01:26.520 --> 1:01:28.320
<v Speaker 4>So it can give you a little bit more peace

1:01:28.360 --> 1:01:30.080
<v Speaker 4>of mind of knowing that I can kind of like

1:01:30.240 --> 1:01:33.400
<v Speaker 4>take my time and slow step if that's what the

1:01:33.440 --> 1:01:35.840
<v Speaker 4>player or the athlete wants, you know.

1:01:36.800 --> 1:01:39.120
<v Speaker 2>So now to the messy question of the podcast. This

1:01:39.160 --> 1:01:40.760
<v Speaker 2>is where all the controversy happens.

1:01:41.040 --> 1:01:43.200
<v Speaker 4>I love it right.

1:01:43.240 --> 1:01:44.360
<v Speaker 1>We all love a little mess.

1:01:44.480 --> 1:01:49.760
<v Speaker 2>So you I think it was last year you you

1:01:49.880 --> 1:01:52.200
<v Speaker 2>taught Carti B a little bit about tennis or how

1:01:52.200 --> 1:01:54.680
<v Speaker 2>to play at a little bit of tennis. On her

1:01:54.720 --> 1:01:57.040
<v Speaker 2>show Carti Tries where she tries different things. But I

1:01:57.040 --> 1:02:01.080
<v Speaker 2>think it is a brilliant idea. And how would you

1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:03.680
<v Speaker 2>rate Cardi B's athleticism.

1:02:04.080 --> 1:02:05.400
<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna say I tried.

1:02:08.000 --> 1:02:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Because I saw some footage and I was like, hmmm, yeah,

1:02:13.000 --> 1:02:13.720
<v Speaker 2>Tallada Rapper.

1:02:13.960 --> 1:02:16.080
<v Speaker 1>Don't know if athleticism and sports is her thing?

1:02:16.200 --> 1:02:22.320
<v Speaker 4>No, definitely not. She's not an athlete. It was really interesting.

1:02:22.360 --> 1:02:23.880
<v Speaker 4>First I didn't know she was left handed, so that

1:02:23.920 --> 1:02:30.000
<v Speaker 4>was cool. Another thing is like I so when she

1:02:30.080 --> 1:02:32.320
<v Speaker 4>was about to fall out and die, I was like,

1:02:32.400 --> 1:02:34.520
<v Speaker 4>She's like, I need to sit down. So she went

1:02:34.560 --> 1:02:36.560
<v Speaker 4>on the bench. Is like when you guys saw her

1:02:36.640 --> 1:02:38.640
<v Speaker 4>like lay down and she was like who Like she

1:02:38.800 --> 1:02:41.360
<v Speaker 4>literally was laying down and we took like a fifteen

1:02:41.360 --> 1:02:44.200
<v Speaker 4>minute break. But I found out that she had was

1:02:44.240 --> 1:02:46.720
<v Speaker 4>in the studio like all night, so she had came

1:02:46.920 --> 1:02:49.760
<v Speaker 4>from the studio, didn't sleep, came from the studio to

1:02:49.840 --> 1:02:52.400
<v Speaker 4>the set to shoot, so she was like exhausted. So

1:02:52.480 --> 1:02:54.280
<v Speaker 4>I was just like, okay, Like I get it because

1:02:54.320 --> 1:02:56.000
<v Speaker 4>I had the whole list. I was like, we about

1:02:56.000 --> 1:02:59.080
<v Speaker 4>to do running drills, we about to do lunges and

1:02:59.120 --> 1:03:01.600
<v Speaker 4>all this type of stuff, right, let's like just throw

1:03:01.640 --> 1:03:08.320
<v Speaker 4>it all in. So yeah, I definitely saw. I'm like, okay,

1:03:08.480 --> 1:03:13.600
<v Speaker 4>like sports is not her thing, Normani, she's an athlete.

1:03:13.840 --> 1:03:15.040
<v Speaker 4>And then when I talked to her, I'm like, what

1:03:15.120 --> 1:03:17.040
<v Speaker 4>did you do? She's like, yeah, did gymnastis and I

1:03:17.040 --> 1:03:18.440
<v Speaker 4>played this and I was like, Okay, that makes sense

1:03:18.440 --> 1:03:20.640
<v Speaker 4>because the things that I was telling her, like her

1:03:20.720 --> 1:03:23.200
<v Speaker 4>body awareness and her hand eye corners, like she was

1:03:23.240 --> 1:03:25.040
<v Speaker 4>able to get it fast. And one of the things

1:03:25.040 --> 1:03:27.240
<v Speaker 4>I was the most impressive was with the serve because

1:03:27.280 --> 1:03:29.240
<v Speaker 4>that's not easy, like to be able to time like

1:03:29.440 --> 1:03:31.440
<v Speaker 4>the ball going up, coming down and then when you

1:03:31.520 --> 1:03:35.160
<v Speaker 4>hit and like she got it quick. So I was

1:03:35.240 --> 1:03:39.480
<v Speaker 4>just like, okay, like she's an athlete, CARTI No, We're

1:03:39.520 --> 1:03:45.400
<v Speaker 4>gonna stick to music and dancing and making sure that

1:03:45.440 --> 1:03:49.280
<v Speaker 4>she keep telling us her hair routine because she got

1:03:49.360 --> 1:03:52.560
<v Speaker 4>fabulous inches. We need that.

1:03:52.560 --> 1:03:55.439
<v Speaker 2>That's a little surprising because I've seen I've never seen

1:03:55.440 --> 1:03:58.120
<v Speaker 2>her in person, been seeing her perform on stage like

1:03:58.240 --> 1:03:59.760
<v Speaker 2>that requires some athletics.

1:04:00.280 --> 1:04:03.600
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I asked her that because so I'm gonna tell you,

1:04:05.040 --> 1:04:08.120
<v Speaker 4>I could be anger. Sometimes I would just ask things

1:04:08.160 --> 1:04:10.160
<v Speaker 4>that come to mind because I was like, something's not

1:04:10.200 --> 1:04:13.160
<v Speaker 4>making sense to me. I say, you sing and dance

1:04:13.360 --> 1:04:18.640
<v Speaker 4>and do all of this stuff for hours? How can

1:04:18.680 --> 1:04:22.320
<v Speaker 4>you not? How do not work out? Well, it's just

1:04:22.440 --> 1:04:30.040
<v Speaker 4>different how how how sway? So I was like, I

1:04:30.080 --> 1:04:32.360
<v Speaker 4>didn't quite understand that, but I guess it is just

1:04:32.400 --> 1:04:35.520
<v Speaker 4>a different type of thing, and you know, it's it

1:04:35.600 --> 1:04:38.120
<v Speaker 4>kind of put in perspective like, okay, like just the

1:04:38.120 --> 1:04:40.120
<v Speaker 4>same way. Is this something I've been doing for years?

1:04:40.160 --> 1:04:44.000
<v Speaker 4>Like you get you can train yourself to be better

1:04:44.040 --> 1:04:47.760
<v Speaker 4>at certain things, right, so like breathing or knowing how

1:04:47.800 --> 1:04:50.360
<v Speaker 4>to do certain things like when you're performing. But I'm

1:04:50.400 --> 1:04:52.360
<v Speaker 4>like to be able to run or like do side

1:04:52.400 --> 1:04:58.000
<v Speaker 4>to side or coordinate watching something coming hitting, like it's

1:04:58.080 --> 1:05:00.440
<v Speaker 4>just you know, it's it's different. I was just like,

1:05:00.440 --> 1:05:02.840
<v Speaker 4>how do you how are you so tired?

1:05:02.960 --> 1:05:06.440
<v Speaker 2>And heels and heels sometimes and like its elaborate office.

1:05:06.480 --> 1:05:09.720
<v Speaker 2>So it's really it was really very eye opening about

1:05:09.920 --> 1:05:13.680
<v Speaker 2>sometimes you have different skill sets in different areas well. Taylor,

1:05:13.720 --> 1:05:15.200
<v Speaker 2>I want to thank you so much for spending this

1:05:15.240 --> 1:05:16.800
<v Speaker 2>time with me. It's great to catch up with you

1:05:16.840 --> 1:05:20.040
<v Speaker 2>and to hear about mommyhood. And obviously this was twenty

1:05:20.040 --> 1:05:23.000
<v Speaker 2>twenty four was a great year for you. I'm sure

1:05:23.000 --> 1:05:26.400
<v Speaker 2>there's way more of that to come, more success, So

1:05:26.520 --> 1:05:28.600
<v Speaker 2>continue to keep doing what you're doing and being a

1:05:28.680 --> 1:05:31.240
<v Speaker 2>voice like you know, the way that you have advocated

1:05:31.240 --> 1:05:34.080
<v Speaker 2>for yourself and by extension, advocated for others is really

1:05:34.160 --> 1:05:34.840
<v Speaker 2>quite admirable.

1:05:34.840 --> 1:05:36.600
<v Speaker 1>So I just want to thank you for spending this time.

1:05:36.920 --> 1:05:38.640
<v Speaker 4>Thank you, and I have fun. It's good to see

1:05:38.640 --> 1:05:41.200
<v Speaker 4>you again after all these years. And yeah, I hope

1:05:41.200 --> 1:05:42.760
<v Speaker 4>to run into you in person sometime.

1:05:43.040 --> 1:05:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're a hole grown lady. Now you're o G

1:05:46.160 --> 1:05:47.280
<v Speaker 1>on the tennis score.

1:05:47.360 --> 1:05:47.480
<v Speaker 4>Now.

1:05:49.120 --> 1:05:52.440
<v Speaker 1>I was like, I'm really that old time you are?

1:05:54.200 --> 1:05:57.600
<v Speaker 2>You really are so many I had a conversation with

1:05:57.640 --> 1:05:59.120
<v Speaker 2>Sloan Steve was about that same thing.

1:05:59.200 --> 1:06:01.160
<v Speaker 1>She like, they looking at me like, oh you the

1:06:01.200 --> 1:06:01.440
<v Speaker 1>o G.

1:06:01.600 --> 1:06:03.280
<v Speaker 4>You the icon tell us what to do. She's like,

1:06:03.320 --> 1:06:08.440
<v Speaker 4>but I'm just thirty, like, hey, hey Auntie, hold on.

1:06:09.640 --> 1:06:14.320
<v Speaker 4>You're like hold on now, great Auntie. I was.

1:06:16.200 --> 1:06:17.280
<v Speaker 1>Wet to the same age.

1:06:18.720 --> 1:06:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Wait my mind, one more segment to go, and you

1:06:23.360 --> 1:06:26.520
<v Speaker 2>guys know what that means I got questions to answer

1:06:27.240 --> 1:06:31.640
<v Speaker 2>up next, your viewer slash listener questions, and I have

1:06:31.800 --> 1:06:34.960
<v Speaker 2>plenty of answers coming up next. On the final segment

1:06:35.040 --> 1:06:36.200
<v Speaker 2>of Spota, diis.

1:06:43.480 --> 1:06:44.000
<v Speaker 4>All right, people.

1:06:44.080 --> 1:06:46.400
<v Speaker 2>Time to close out this week's episode with an audience

1:06:46.480 --> 1:06:49.560
<v Speaker 2>question from Kyra Stewart six sixty six not that that

1:06:49.640 --> 1:06:54.000
<v Speaker 2>isn't spooky, who asked this question via Instagram. Kira asked,

1:06:54.040 --> 1:06:56.880
<v Speaker 2>why haven't you addressed Nelly and Snoop's performers at the

1:06:56.880 --> 1:07:00.200
<v Speaker 2>Crypto pre inauguration so by now, I'm sure you all

1:07:00.240 --> 1:07:02.320
<v Speaker 2>know that Snoop and Nelly both performed for Trump's pre

1:07:02.360 --> 1:07:05.960
<v Speaker 2>inauguration festivities last week, and people, as in our people

1:07:06.040 --> 1:07:09.760
<v Speaker 2>were understandably upset and disappointed, and I think a lot

1:07:09.760 --> 1:07:11.800
<v Speaker 2>of people were just hurt. Now, I live in Los

1:07:11.840 --> 1:07:14.040
<v Speaker 2>Angeles and I can personally attest that Snoop does a

1:07:14.200 --> 1:07:17.080
<v Speaker 2>lot of work in our community. This isn't a question

1:07:17.120 --> 1:07:19.680
<v Speaker 2>about whether or not Snoop loves black people or if

1:07:19.680 --> 1:07:22.560
<v Speaker 2>he's ashamed of being black. He does love black people

1:07:22.640 --> 1:07:24.720
<v Speaker 2>and he is not ashamed of being black. This is

1:07:24.760 --> 1:07:27.240
<v Speaker 2>a question of whether Snoop and Nelly understood that in

1:07:27.320 --> 1:07:30.440
<v Speaker 2>this moment when the community they are both so connected

1:07:30.440 --> 1:07:33.880
<v Speaker 2>to is trying to process what this presidency means and

1:07:34.000 --> 1:07:36.720
<v Speaker 2>understanding that our community, our elders, our young people, our

1:07:36.760 --> 1:07:41.600
<v Speaker 2>working class people will be disproportionately impacted by a president

1:07:41.640 --> 1:07:43.960
<v Speaker 2>who is moving the way this one is moving. We

1:07:44.040 --> 1:07:47.560
<v Speaker 2>need people in their positions to hold the line. Hey, Nellie, listen.

1:07:47.600 --> 1:07:49.760
<v Speaker 2>I admire and respect the military as well, but showing

1:07:49.800 --> 1:07:52.360
<v Speaker 2>your love of country doesn't mean blind loyalty. And if

1:07:52.400 --> 1:07:55.120
<v Speaker 2>you feel that strongly about the military, you can always

1:07:55.120 --> 1:07:59.280
<v Speaker 2>go perform at any military base you Performing there both

1:07:59.280 --> 1:08:01.880
<v Speaker 2>of you is almost a sanction in a high five

1:08:01.920 --> 1:08:04.520
<v Speaker 2>to this president. And no disrespect to Sojio boy, which

1:08:04.560 --> 1:08:07.160
<v Speaker 2>means I'm about to disrespect soldier boy, but I expect

1:08:07.240 --> 1:08:08.960
<v Speaker 2>him to be the rapper and take a check from Trump.

1:08:09.400 --> 1:08:13.160
<v Speaker 2>That wasn't my expectation of smooth and melo. Thank you,

1:08:13.240 --> 1:08:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Kyra for your question. As for the rest of you,

1:08:16.400 --> 1:08:18.200
<v Speaker 2>if you would like to ask me a question, I'm

1:08:18.240 --> 1:08:21.879
<v Speaker 2>at Jamail Hill across all social media platforms Twitter, Instagram,

1:08:21.880 --> 1:08:26.120
<v Speaker 2>Bluesty and threads, please use the hashtags politics. You also

1:08:26.200 --> 1:08:29.040
<v Speaker 2>have the option of emailing me at Politics twenty twenty

1:08:29.040 --> 1:08:31.479
<v Speaker 2>four at gmail dot com. You can also send me

1:08:31.479 --> 1:08:33.639
<v Speaker 2>a video of your question, but please make sure it's

1:08:33.720 --> 1:08:36.839
<v Speaker 2>thirty seconds or less. Don't forget to follow and subscribe

1:08:36.840 --> 1:08:40.440
<v Speaker 2>to Politics on iHeart and follow spolitics pod on Instagram

1:08:40.479 --> 1:08:41.160
<v Speaker 2>and TikTok.

1:08:41.439 --> 1:08:43.160
<v Speaker 1>It's still exist, doesn't it anyways?

1:08:43.200 --> 1:08:47.320
<v Speaker 2>Politics is spelled s po l I Tics. A new

1:08:47.360 --> 1:08:50.400
<v Speaker 2>episode of Politics drops every Thursday on iHeart Podcasts or

1:08:50.439 --> 1:08:54.120
<v Speaker 2>wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics where sports

1:08:54.160 --> 1:09:00.599
<v Speaker 2>and politics don't just mix, they Matterlitics is a production

1:09:00.720 --> 1:09:04.360
<v Speaker 2>of iHeart podcast and The Unbothered Network. I'm your host

1:09:04.479 --> 1:09:09.080
<v Speaker 2>Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne. Lucas Hyman is

1:09:09.120 --> 1:09:13.439
<v Speaker 2>head of Audio and executive producer. Megan Armstrong is associate producer.

1:09:13.800 --> 1:09:17.519
<v Speaker 2>Original music First Politics provided by Kyle Visk from wiz

1:09:17.680 --> 1:09:18.200
<v Speaker 2>FX