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Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody.

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Speaker 2: I'm Jamel Hill and welcome to politics and I heard

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Speaker 2: podcast and unbothered production.

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Speaker 1: Time to get spolitical.

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Speaker 2: It's been twenty two years since the NFL adopted the

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Speaker 2: Rooney Rule, and with so many corporations go aside when

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Speaker 2: it comes to their diversity, equity and inclusion initiatives, now

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Speaker 2: seems like an appropriate time to check in on the

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Speaker 2: impact of the Rooney Rule. First, let's start with why

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Speaker 2: the Rooney Rule was even created, because it seems like

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Speaker 2: whenever we have a conversation about why any measure is

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Speaker 2: adopted to correct systemic inequity, people never paint the full

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Speaker 2: picture about the origin story. In two thousand and two,

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Speaker 2: the late Johnny Cochrane, who famously got oj Simpson acquitted

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Speaker 2: for double murder, and civil rights attorney Cyrus Mary, who

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Speaker 2: won huge discrimination lawsuits against Texaco and Coca Cola. They

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Speaker 2: threatened to sue the NFL for racial discrimination. Now, what

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Speaker 2: drove Cochrane and Mary to threaten the NFL with the

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Speaker 2: lawsuit was the firings of Tony Dungee, who was then

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Speaker 2: the coach of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and Dennis Green,

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Speaker 2: who was fired even though he had made the playoffs

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Speaker 2: eight of nine seasons as head coach of the Minnesota Vikings.

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Speaker 3: The Bears are who we thought they were. Now, that's

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Speaker 3: why we took the damn field. Now, if you want

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Speaker 3: to crown them, they crowned her ass. But they are

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Speaker 3: who we thought they were, and we got about the hook.

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Speaker 2: Thanks. Now, I'm sorry if you mentioned Dennis Green. It's

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Speaker 2: like you gotta play that clip the awkward Fanks coach.

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Speaker 2: It just kills me every time. Anyway, The firings of

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Speaker 2: both Dungee and Green drew some raised eyebrows. When Dungee

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Speaker 2: was let go, the Bucks were fifty four and forty

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Speaker 2: two in his six seasons in Tampa, during which the

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Speaker 2: Bucks went to the playoffs four times, including appearing in

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Speaker 2: the nineteen ninety nine NFC Championship Game. Now, before Dungee

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Speaker 2: became the coach, the Bucks had only made the playoffs

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Speaker 2: three times in seasons, and as a franchise, had a

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Speaker 2: thirty percent win percentage with the championship roster. The Bucks

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Speaker 2: won the Super Bowl the season after Dungee was fired

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Speaker 2: with John Grutin, who during his seven seasons in Tampa

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Speaker 2: only made the playoffs twice after winning the Super Bowl

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Speaker 2: and finished with a sixty to fifty.

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Speaker 1: Seven overall record.

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Speaker 2: Green meanwhile guided the Vikings to two appearances in the

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Speaker 2: NFC Championship four division titles, and they only missed the

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Speaker 2: playoffs twice in his ten seasons. Now Green also was

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Speaker 2: only the second black coach in NFL history. Now attorneys

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Speaker 2: Cochrane and Mary They saw these firings as emblematic of

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Speaker 2: a deeper systemic problem in the NFL. In nineteen twenty one,

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Speaker 2: Fritz Poller became the NFL's first black head coach, only

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Speaker 2: it wasn't known as the NFL then, but the American

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Speaker 2: Professional Football Association. It would be sixty eight years before

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Speaker 2: the NFL had another black head coach, Artchell, who took

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Speaker 2: over for the Raiders in nineteen eighty nine. When the

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Speaker 2: Roomy Rule was adopted in two thousand and three, the

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Speaker 2: NFL only had five black.

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Speaker 1: Coaches in its history.

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Speaker 2: Since the Roomy rule was adopted roughly twenty two years ago,

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Speaker 2: there have been one hundred and thirty nine head coaches

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Speaker 2: in the NFL, and only twenty six haven't been white.

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Speaker 1: Now, considering how.

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Speaker 2: Long it took the NFL to get its first black

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Speaker 2: coach in the modern era, and that entering this season

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Speaker 2: there were nine minority coaches. You could make an argument

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Speaker 2: that the Rooney rule has kind of sort of made

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Speaker 2: some progress, But as we've seen through this most recent

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Speaker 2: hiring cycle, and by no means what was this the

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Speaker 2: first year this happened, the Rooney rule also puts minority

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Speaker 2: coaches and owners in awkward positions. It also in some

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Speaker 2: ways degrades minority coaches who are just looking to be

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Speaker 2: given a fair shot. Now, since this current administration is

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Speaker 2: insistent on weaponizing DEI and dragging us back to the

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Speaker 2: days of whites only, should the Rooney rule be the

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Speaker 2: next casualty? Is it time for it to go? Let's

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Speaker 2: ask the important question. Is the lack of black and

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Speaker 2: minority coaches an issue of race? Let me give you

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Speaker 2: the definition of systemic racism. According to Merriam Webster, it

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Speaker 2: means the oppression of a racial group to the advantage

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Speaker 2: of another, as perpetuated by inequity within interconnected systems such

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Speaker 2: as political, economic, and social systems. In twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 2: the Washington Post did a special investigative report called how

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Speaker 2: the NFL blocks Black coaches. It is a thorough and

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Speaker 2: comprehensive report back by data. Some of the conclusions drawn

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Speaker 2: from this report are these, black coaches tend to perform

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Speaker 2: about as well as white coaches, but while white candidates

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Speaker 2: are offered a vast and diverse set of roots to

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Speaker 2: the league stop coaching jobs, black coaches face a much

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Speaker 2: narrower set of paths. They have had to serve significantly

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Speaker 2: longer as mid level assistants, are more likely to be

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Speaker 2: given interim jobs than full time ones, and are held

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Speaker 2: to a higher standard when it comes to keeping their jobs.

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Speaker 2: Since nineteen ninety, black coaches have been twice as likely

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Speaker 2: as others to be fired after leading a team to

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Speaker 2: a regular season record of five hundred or better. Now,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure, as I'm relaying this data, some of you

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Speaker 2: are riding fast into the comments section to say, it's

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Speaker 2: not about color rays, it's about the best person for

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Speaker 2: the job. Well, was it about the best person for

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Speaker 2: the job? When the NFL went almost seventy years without

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Speaker 2: a black head coach. In the twenty years that passed

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Speaker 2: after the Rooney Rule, only eleven percent of the head

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Speaker 2: coaches hired were black. So does that mean all the

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Speaker 2: white guys were simply just smarter. Let's not forget the

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Speaker 2: history of the NFL is filled with examples of the

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Speaker 2: league being in lockstep with systemic racism. In nineteen thirty four,

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Speaker 2: George Preston Marshall, the owner of the Washington football team,

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Speaker 2: and by the way, remembering why I'm avoiding using their

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Speaker 2: old nickname another hint. Anyway, George Preston Marshall executed his

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Speaker 2: secret plan to ban black players from the league. It's

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Speaker 2: a history the NFL probably doesn't love to talk about

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Speaker 2: because Marshall didn't act alone. He convinced other prominent NFL

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Speaker 2: families to join the band, and some of those families

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Speaker 2: still own NFL teams today, the Mars who owned the Giants,

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Speaker 2: and wouldn't you know, also the Boonies. This isn't to

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Speaker 2: say that you can't atone for a racist pass, but

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Speaker 2: how much has the NFL really atoned. There are still

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Speaker 2: five NFL franchises that have never had a permanent black

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Speaker 2: head coach. We witnessed Colin Kaepernick having his entire career

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Speaker 2: destroyed because he took a knee during the national Anthem

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Speaker 2: to protest against racial injustice. Meanwhile, Nazi salutes by the

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Speaker 2: de facto president, totally cool. It was just in twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty one that the NFL agreed to ban race norming,

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Speaker 2: a practice the league willingly engaged in to deny black retirees'

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Speaker 2: access to the NFL's multi billion dollar concussion settlement. Race

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Speaker 2: norming is the practice of assuming that black players have

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Speaker 2: lower cognitive abilities. So if a former black player is

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Speaker 2: presumed to have a lower cognitive ability, then it is

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Speaker 2: concluded he has been impaired less due to playing football.

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Speaker 1: Kind of fucked up, isn't it. Now?

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Speaker 2: Remember, in this same league, it was accepted that black

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Speaker 2: players were not smart enough to play quarterback and could

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Speaker 2: not be the leader of men. That same also existed

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Speaker 2: when it came to black coaches. But it wasn't just

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Speaker 2: this undercurrent of systemic racism that minority coaches are up against.

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Speaker 1: It's also nepotism.

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Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, there were seven hundred and seventeen

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Speaker 2: on field coaches in the NFL, and at least ninety

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Speaker 2: three of those coaches, or thirteen percent of them, had

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Speaker 2: our father, son, or brother who was a current or

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Speaker 2: former NFL head coach. Seventy six percent of those family

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Speaker 2: connections were white USA Today Sports analyzed seventy nine father

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Speaker 2: son connections and they found nearly half of the sons

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Speaker 2: got their first NFL jobs on the same staffs as

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Speaker 2: their father. Now, I think you can guess the race

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Speaker 2: of those sons and fathers. This past hiring cycle, we

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Speaker 2: saw examples of NFL teams engaging in sham interviews to

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Speaker 2: meet Rooney Rule requirements, which mandates that teams interview two

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Speaker 2: external minority candidates for a head coaching position and one

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Speaker 2: external candidate or a coordinator position. To satisfy the Rooney rules,

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Speaker 2: several teams interviewed black candidates that they had no intr

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Speaker 2: in hiring. The Cowboys, for example, hire Matt Eberflus. They

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Speaker 2: recently fired Chicago Bear's head coach for their defensive coordinator position,

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Speaker 2: and even though there were reports that said Eberflus was

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Speaker 2: their guy, they couldn't make the hire official.

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Speaker 1: Until they interviewed a minority candidate.

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Speaker 2: Now inner Chicago Bears secondary coach Andre Curtis, who interviewed

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Speaker 2: with Dallas and allowed them to meet the Rooney rule criterion. Now,

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Speaker 2: if you're Andre Curtis, do you still interview even though

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Speaker 2: you know you aren't getting the job now. Some would

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Speaker 2: say he should do it just to get an idea

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Speaker 2: of what these head coaching interviews are like. Some would

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Speaker 2: counter and say, why play the token. But the problem

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Speaker 2: isn't the rule. The problem is that there has been

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Speaker 2: no real punishment for violating the Rooney Rule, at least

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Speaker 2: not a punishment that would make teams and owners think

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Speaker 2: twice about not taking the process seriously. In two thousand

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Speaker 2: and three, the Detroit Lions were fined two hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars for violating the Rooney rule because they didn't interview

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Speaker 2: a minority candidate before they hireed Steve Marrucci. The Lions

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Speaker 2: didn't lose any draft picks, and today they're the only

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Speaker 2: team that has ever been punished behind the Rooney rule.

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Speaker 2: Former NFL Players Union president D Smith pointed out in

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Speaker 2: a piece for Yale Law Policy and Review, the Rooney

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Speaker 2: Rule isn't a rule, but merely a suggestion because the

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Speaker 2: NFL has no outside entity that determines punishment and owners

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Speaker 2: simply don't bear any of the consequences. Smith wrote fine

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Speaker 2: should start at five million and escalate for individuals and

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Speaker 2: clubs who violated the adopted system. The reality is that

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Speaker 2: teams do not care about draft picks or minor finds

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Speaker 2: as punishment for violating league guidelines. The proof is that

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Speaker 2: we still have consistent and repeated violation of the Rooney

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Speaker 2: rule process and have not achieved the Roony rules goal.

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Speaker 2: The NFL uses significant finds to police player conduct both

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Speaker 2: on and off the field, claiming that these finds promote

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Speaker 2: uniformity and protect the NFL product. It is ironic that

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Speaker 2: the league has not adopted a similar zero tolerance fine

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Speaker 2: structure when it comes to achieving a fair and inclusive workplace.

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Speaker 4: Nah.

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Speaker 2: I know many people think you can't legislate behavior or fairness,

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Speaker 2: but in this country that's the only way any sort

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Speaker 2: of progress has ever been made. People have never decided

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Speaker 2: out of the goodness of their heart to adopt equality

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Speaker 2: as a practice. Look no further than the Civil War

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Speaker 2: and the Civil Rights movement. It always has been by

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Speaker 2: fours and through a painful process. Considering our willingness historically

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Speaker 2: to legislate inequality, it seems we should keep that same

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Speaker 2: energy when it comes to correcting inequality.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jamelle Hill, and I approve this message.

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Speaker 2: Coming up next on politics now, I don't want to

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Speaker 2: pat myself on the back for the good timing award.

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Speaker 2: But I'm about to pat myself on the back for

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Speaker 2: the good timing award. When I recorded this interview with

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Speaker 2: today's guest, she had not yet won the Australian Open

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Speaker 2: Devil's title.

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Speaker 1: Now she has.

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Speaker 2: For her winning it is just a testament to her

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Speaker 2: incredible talent and strength. She went through a lot as

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Speaker 2: a young tennis pro, including body shaming as a woman

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Speaker 2: of color, the path ten and this hasn't been easy

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Speaker 2: for her, and she'll share how she's persevered to become

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Speaker 2: not only a great player, but one of the most

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Speaker 2: important and distinct voices in the sport. Coming up next

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Speaker 2: on politics, Taylor Downson. All right, Taylor, I am going

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Speaker 2: to start this podcast with a question I ask every guest,

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Speaker 2: and that is, can you name a athlete or a

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Speaker 2: sports moment that made you love sports?

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Speaker 4: Oh? Yeah, I think it was. It was several, but

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Speaker 4: a big iconic moment for me because I never played

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Speaker 4: any other sports. So an iconic moment for me was

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Speaker 4: watching Serena come out on Arthur ash Stadium night match

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Speaker 4: and she wore the denim skirt with the boot and

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Speaker 4: like there were her shoes that were boots, and then

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Speaker 4: the boots unzipped and then she just had her sneakers on.

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Speaker 4: And I just thought that was like the coolest thing,

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Speaker 4: you know, just being able first of all, having someone

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Speaker 4: who's playing a sport the way that I was, that

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Speaker 4: looked like me, that was unapologetically black, you know, wearing braids,

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Speaker 4: you know, constantly were talked about at the early parts

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Speaker 4: of their career, with wearing beats in their hair and

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Speaker 4: all of the things. But and then to take like

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Speaker 4: fashion risks like that, I thought that was just like

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Speaker 4: the coolest thing because I've never really fit inside of

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Speaker 4: a box, right, So it's like that was just like

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Speaker 4: total rebel moment. Rebel in the tennis world. I don't care,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to do my own thing. And I just

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Speaker 4: thought that was like so cool because it showed me that, like,

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Speaker 4: you could be whatever you want to be. You can

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Speaker 4: do whatever you want. But it definitely helps that you're

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Speaker 4: winning and that you're kicking everyone's ass and you're number one,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's a lot easier for people to like

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Speaker 4: shut up and just kind of like deal with it,

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Speaker 4: you know. So that for me, that was a moment

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Speaker 4: where it kind of made me really love the ability

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Speaker 4: to not only like play the game and be someone

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Speaker 4: of color who's played the game, but then also like

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Speaker 4: it gave me the confidence to know that I can

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Speaker 4: really express myself in the game.

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Speaker 2: Let's take people through your origin story a little bit

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Speaker 2: as it relates to tennis.

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Speaker 1: How did you get introduced to the game?

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Speaker 4: So my mom played until she was eight months pregnant

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Speaker 4: with me, and ironically enough, I played until the day

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Speaker 4: before I went to the hospital with my son. So

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Speaker 4: I guess I.

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Speaker 1: Was gonna say, there's kind of a theme there, there's

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Speaker 1: a pattern.

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Speaker 4: Yes, And so it was. It was very interesting because

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Speaker 4: I played, she played until she was eight months pregnant

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Speaker 4: with me. I was always around the game, so for me,

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Speaker 4: it was something that I was used to. My mom

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Speaker 4: and my first coach, his wife, played doubles together, so

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Speaker 4: I was always around the game, even when I was

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Speaker 4: a kid and we didn't want to place like, we

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Speaker 4: didn't want to go out there, so we would just

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Speaker 4: be at the park, who was always a round court.

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Speaker 4: So for me, it was just like kind of a

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Speaker 4: natural evolution. And then my sister started taking lessons, and

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Speaker 4: I'm the kind of person where it's like, if you're

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Speaker 4: going to do it, I want to do it. And

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Speaker 4: if I can't do it, you can't do it. So uh,

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Speaker 4: for me, it was very much yeah, no, we're if you.

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Speaker 4: If you're doing it, I'm going to do it too.

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Speaker 4: And so she was taking lessons and I was behind

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Speaker 4: the court and I would throw balls at her because

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Speaker 4: I was like, no, this is mine, Like I'm doing

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Speaker 4: it too, right. And so my coach he was like,

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Speaker 4: get off the court, get off the court. No, wouldn't

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Speaker 4: do it. So he kicked me off the court that day,

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Speaker 4: came back, she said another lesson, came back, did the

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Speaker 4: same thing. Someone put someone give her a racket. Please,

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Speaker 4: somebody give her a racket, like she is getting on

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Speaker 4: our nerves. We don't just please someone help us out. So,

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Speaker 4: long story short, that's how it all started. And here

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Speaker 4: we are. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: So you sort of BULLI you bullied your way in,

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Speaker 2: which is in some respects would be sort of a

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Speaker 2: tiny bit of a theme for your career. Now, you

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Speaker 2: left home, I believe, at fourteen years old to pursue

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Speaker 2: this career in tennis. How did you arrive at that

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Speaker 2: decision that you needed to do something like that, or

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Speaker 2: you and your family, because I know you didn't make

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Speaker 2: this as an individual decision, because that's when you think

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Speaker 2: about how we all were fourteen years old. That's a

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Speaker 2: pretty monumentous decision. So how did you kind of get

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Speaker 2: there to say, hey, I got to do this if

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Speaker 2: I want to be really good and really a professional

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Speaker 2: in this sport.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. So, I mean I had a lot of opportunities

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Speaker 4: of like when I was coming up, you know, my

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Speaker 4: coach was a very avid like you need to play

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Speaker 4: every week. So we played tons of tournaments, you know,

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Speaker 4: local tournaments to state tournaments, southern tournaments, and worked our

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Speaker 4: way from each level. And you know, I realized that

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Speaker 4: a lot of people were in Florida or California at

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Speaker 4: the time, where the two big places. Due to the weather,

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Speaker 4: I hadn't been invited several times to USTA camp so

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Speaker 4: out in California, out down in Florida, and you know,

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Speaker 4: I just felt like, you know, it was a good opportunity.

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Speaker 4: I actually had gotten accepted into the program when I

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Speaker 4: was thirteen, So I was in seventh grade, and three

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Speaker 4: days before I was supposed to leave to go, I

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Speaker 4: told my family, I'm not ready. I had all my

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Speaker 4: stuff packed. I had all of my close packed bens

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Speaker 4: stacked up and everything, and I was just like, I'm

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Speaker 4: just not ready yet. And so I finished out middle school.

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Speaker 4: So I did my finished out eighth grade year, and

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Speaker 4: then I was like, okay, now I'm ready experienced high

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Speaker 4: school for a month, which was like the most fun

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Speaker 4: that I've had. People like, did you go to school?

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Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, for a month, and but it

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Speaker 4: was it was it was one of the things where

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Speaker 4: it's like in my head, I was like, Okay, I

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Speaker 4: know that if this is something that I want to pursue,

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Speaker 4: like I want to try, and I knew that financially,

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Speaker 4: my parents weren't going to be able to give me

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Speaker 4: the opportunities to travel to Australia, into France and to

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Speaker 4: all of the places even where the Junior Grand Slams are.

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Speaker 4: We're talking Australia, Paris, London, and in New York, right,

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Speaker 4: So even if you take those four tournaments, that's a

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Speaker 4: lot of traveling. It's a lot of money. And so

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Speaker 4: I knew going down to the USCA, I said, you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm going to use their finances to be able to

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Speaker 4: give me opportunities to play and to train, to get

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Speaker 4: proper structure and just kind of like fully dive into

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Speaker 4: you know, the game because up until I was fourteen,

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Speaker 4: you know, I was doing tennis in school, so I

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Speaker 4: was doing school and then would have my left and

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Speaker 4: everything you know in the afternoons after school. Always education

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Speaker 4: was a huge priority for my for my parents, so

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Speaker 4: that was never that was never an option, you know,

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Speaker 4: to not be educated and to not do well in school.

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Speaker 4: So you know, that's why it's kind of like crazy

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Speaker 4: to me sometimes where I'm like, Okay, these kids at

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Speaker 4: like six are in academies and doing the things that

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Speaker 4: I was doing at fourteen, they're doing it at six

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Speaker 4: and seven, you know, which is which is kind of

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Speaker 4: crazy to me, but hey whatever, Yeah, So that was

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Speaker 4: that was really the mentality in the mindset. I just

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Speaker 4: really wanted to give myself an opportunity to see how

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Speaker 4: far I could go with like being fully supported financially

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Speaker 4: and to be able to not have to worry about

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Speaker 4: structure and organization of like I'll have a coach, I'll

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Speaker 4: have fitness, I'll have everything that I need to hopefully,

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Speaker 4: you know, pan out to become a professional. And ironically enough,

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Speaker 4: a lot of the people that I was with in

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Speaker 4: that age range, the guys, a majority of them went pro.

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Speaker 4: Not all of them, but a majority of them. And

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Speaker 4: on the female side, a lot of the people when

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Speaker 4: I was living on campus, a lot of them went

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Speaker 4: to college and are very successful in their own ways. So,

360
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Speaker 4: you know, it wasn't always to say all be all

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Speaker 4: that being in that program was going to ensure that

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Speaker 4: that you went pro and that you were going to

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Speaker 4: be successful, But it did give us an opportunity to

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Speaker 4: travel and to you know, have everything that we needed

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Speaker 4: to be as professional as possible.

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Speaker 2: Now, you're from the South side of Chicago, and when

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Speaker 2: people think about the tennis world, you know, we know

368
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,120
Speaker 2: what that world looks like financially Racially, people don't aren't

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Speaker 2: in tennis that come from where you come from typically,

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Speaker 2: So for the people out there who are like sort

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Speaker 2: of unfamiliar with what this grind looks like. As you're

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Speaker 2: coming up and you already mentioned the expense, like what

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Speaker 2: all goes into that when you're trying to become a

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Speaker 2: professional tennis player and have become a professional tenant player

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Speaker 2: and you know you may not have your resources don't

376
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Speaker 2: look like how a lot of people you're playing against,

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Speaker 2: how what theirs looks like?

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Speaker 1: What is that part of it like?

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Speaker 4: It's really difficult. This is probably one of the toughest

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Speaker 4: sports because with tennis, you it's really hard to practice

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Speaker 4: on your own. So in football you can go on

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00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 4: a field and run routes. Right, in basketball, you can

383
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,240
Speaker 4: go and find a hoop and you can just shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.

384
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Speaker 4: You can practice, but if you don't have a wall,

385
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Speaker 4: it's really difficult to practice and do the things that

386
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Speaker 4: you that you need to do and get the feel

387
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 4: where the ball's leaving your racket, it's coming back, it's

388
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 4: you know, doing all the things. A racket costs minimum

389
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,400
Speaker 4: one hundred to two hundred and fifty dollars just one.

390
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 4: A cannon balls is twelve dollars for three balls, you know,

391
00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:57,280
Speaker 4: one can. Court time is usually on the cheap side,

392
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:04,639
Speaker 4: forty dollars an hour, you know. Then we're talking about

393
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:09,879
Speaker 4: privates that are usually one hundred bucks an hour, eighty

394
00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,679
Speaker 4: bucks an hour, and you do those couple times a day,

395
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Speaker 4: and then you have maybe have group lessons and that's

396
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 4: maybe two hundred three hundred bucks a week, you know,

397
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 4: so it's and then that's training, right then we have travel,

398
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:30,440
Speaker 4: so you have to drive or fly to tournaments. Tournament

399
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,760
Speaker 4: usually have forty to eighty dollars entry fees. And there's

400
00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,639
Speaker 4: been a time where I played a professional tournament. In

401
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 4: twenty seventeen, I played a pro tournament and I made

402
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,359
Speaker 4: sixty six dollars minus forty dollars entry fee I drove

403
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,280
Speaker 4: to the tournament. So I had twenty six dollars that

404
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 4: I left to a professional tournament with and I was like,

405
00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 4: this can't even fill up my gas tape.

406
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say like, yeah, so you basically

407
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 2: you can't.

408
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: That was a net loss, Like, oh you big.

409
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:07,560
Speaker 4: Time, right, totally, totally. So this is just like, these

410
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,160
Speaker 4: are all of the expenses that you have to try

411
00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,119
Speaker 4: and give yourself these opportunities. Right now, we're talking about

412
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 4: if a tournament is a week long, you're talking about hotel, food, travel, gas,

413
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 4: if you drove all of the things. So there are

414
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:27,800
Speaker 4: so many things that add up, and you could potentially

415
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 4: you can lose out on a lot, you know, and

416
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 4: in juniors, your parents are fronting this constantly until I mean,

417
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 4: if you unless you turn pro or unless you you know,

418
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 4: sign to an agency and you get a signing bonus

419
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 4: or whatever the case may be. But that's the only

420
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 4: way that you're getting or you have sponsors, just the

421
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:49,879
Speaker 4: only way you're getting like upfront money. But if you

422
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 4: don't have that, you have to find a way to

423
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 4: fut that bill until you start making money. And I

424
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Speaker 4: can tell you for one hundred percent. In fact, for me,

425
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,960
Speaker 4: for years, I was in the negative. I could tell you.

426
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 4: Twenty nineteen was the first time in my career that

427
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 4: I was like comfortably like okay money wise, like and

428
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,760
Speaker 4: that's because I made the round of sixteen of the

429
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 4: US Open, which gave me a really nice, you know,

430
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 4: cushion chunk of money. But up until then, it was

431
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 4: constantly like, all right, I gotta this, this what's coming out,

432
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 4: and I gotta do this, and I gotta travel here,

433
00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 4: and you know, being very you know, I don't want

434
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 4: to say frugal, because I still am, but you know,

435
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 4: very aware and cognizant of ebbs and flows of the finances. Right,

436
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 4: So it's it's really hard. This sport is like so

437
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 4: it's a it's one of the things that a lot

438
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,560
Speaker 4: of people don't talk about because it's like they the

439
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 4: narrative of like equal prize money. And they talk about

440
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 4: the prize money and the money that people make to

441
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 4: like at the top, but you don't understand the pyramid

442
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 4: and the trickle down. And it's kind of crazy because

443
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 4: the pyramids actually like this, when you go to the top,

444
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,639
Speaker 4: the people at the top get the most. So the

445
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 4: people at the top who have sponsors, who have all

446
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 4: these things, who are typically going deep in tournaments, so

447
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 4: making a lot of prize money, they get a lot,

448
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 4: like they get hotels for free, you know, cars, transportation

449
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 4: for free. And then as you move down where you're

450
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,719
Speaker 4: making less money, you get the least, whereas like you

451
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 4: really have to pay and really finance and put the

452
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 4: bill for like everything that you're doing in your career

453
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 4: to try and get to this level, to try and

454
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,880
Speaker 4: make it to the middle, and then you know, continue

455
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,920
Speaker 4: to grow. So you know, I feel like I'm very

456
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 4: fortunate because I've experienced this game on every level, like

457
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 4: from the very bottom. Like I like for weeks at

458
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 4: a time, months at a time, being in the red right,

459
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 4: I may I one year. I want three matches in

460
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 4: a year, So you can imagine like how much money

461
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 4: because I played the entire year, I played a whole season,

462
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 4: so you can imagine how much money was going out

463
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 4: but not a lot coming in. So I've been at

464
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 4: that place where I've been here and worked my way

465
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 4: up and went back down, you know, worked my way

466
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 4: through every single level. So I have a true appreciation

467
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 4: for like every every level, I have an understanding and

468
00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,399
Speaker 4: I can relate to every person on every level. But

469
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 4: then also I have a true appreciation and gratitude like

470
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 4: where I am because I'm just like I know where

471
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 4: I came from and I know that like it was

472
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:42,359
Speaker 4: nothing except hard work and like mental grind and like

473
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,879
Speaker 4: making a decision and a choice to be like okay,

474
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,639
Speaker 4: I'm going to change this. That got me out of

475
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 4: those places. You know. So this sport is like it

476
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 4: is so so so difficult, and you know it requires

477
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 4: it's very it's almost impossible to do on your own.

478
00:25:58,240 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 4: So it's really hard.

479
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 2: With that being said though, knowing that you're when you're

480
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: in that situation and you know you're spending more money

481
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 2: than you're actually bringing in as a player, mentally, how

482
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 2: do you deal with that? How does that impact how

483
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 2: you play?

484
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 4: I mean it was hard, but also I'm I'm the

485
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 4: kind of person that I thrive with chips on my shoulder.

486
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 4: So there were times where when let me say this,

487
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:29,120
Speaker 4: when I got to the place in my mind where

488
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm not doing this anymore, Like I'm I

489
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 4: don't like where I'm at. I'm gonna make a change.

490
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:39,040
Speaker 4: When I knew that and I went to it was like, nah,

491
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 4: I gotta, I gotta, I gotta win. When I made

492
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 4: those decisions, then it was like it was a fuel,

493
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:49,520
Speaker 4: Like it was a like a fire where it's like, okay, Taylor,

494
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 4: like I'm not gonna let this person take food off

495
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,679
Speaker 4: my plate. I'm not gonna let you take money out

496
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 4: of my pocket, you know. And even when I was

497
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,919
Speaker 4: coming back, I was like, no, you're taking money out

498
00:26:57,920 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 4: of my son's pocket, out of you know, food out

499
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 4: of his place. So it's like I had to find

500
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 4: those motivational factors of like how to turn you know,

501
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 4: the situation to something where it's like fuel for me,

502
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,240
Speaker 4: because if you look at it and if you're aware

503
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 4: of it constantly, it's so like it's such a downer

504
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 4: or it was just like what the hell am I

505
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 4: going to do? And I'm so grateful because I've had

506
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 4: people in my corner. Like my coach was like, Okay,

507
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 4: I'll pay for my flights, I'll pay for this, I'll

508
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,520
Speaker 4: pay for that, and then like when you get let's

509
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 4: just say, when we go to a Grand Slam and

510
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 4: you know you were going to make X amount, then

511
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 4: we'll just you can reimburse me, you know. So like

512
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 4: I had people where it's like would even foot the

513
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 4: bill at the beginning to hopefully, you know, later down

514
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 4: the road. So it's it's also just about like being

515
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 4: able to have good people around you that understand because

516
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 4: if not, like it's it's so hard, it's so hard, like, yeah,

517
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 4: it's almost impossible.

518
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: So at what point did you feel like you were

519
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,639
Speaker 2: really good that like, hey, I you know a lot

520
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 2: of people start sports and but there becomes a moment

521
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,479
Speaker 2: when you realize, like I'm built a little different than

522
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 2: everybody else.

523
00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: What moment was that for you or what time was

524
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: that for you?

525
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 4: Well, it's it's really interesting because while the things were happening,

526
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 4: I didn't notice it. But now when I was removed

527
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 4: and I like actually was able to kind of deconstruct things,

528
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 4: I'm like, oh my gosh, Like it's literally been like

529
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 4: me versus me literally and I'm thinking that I'm like

530
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,439
Speaker 4: fighting everything and everyone and like, but now that I

531
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 4: was able to look, I think, like, there's nobody on

532
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 4: my love. There was nobody doing what I was doing.

533
00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 4: Like not a single number one junior in thirty something

534
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 4: years that didn't happen. Like you were winning this, this, this, this, this, this,

535
00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 4: nobody else was doing that. You want two Grand Slams

536
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 4: out of four in a year, Nobody else did that,

537
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 4: Like you want Orange Bowl, Easter Bowl, this, Like as

538
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 4: a junior, this that, this, that. But I was always

539
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 4: trying to like prove myself and be like is this

540
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 4: good enough? Is this good enough? Is this good enough?

541
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 4: So in the moment and at the time I didn't

542
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 4: see I was just like, Okay, what's next, what's next?

543
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 4: What's next? And it's so crazy how those experiences shaped

544
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 4: like who I am now. Because when I won Wimbledon,

545
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 4: I threw a trophy party, not because I wanted to

546
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,959
Speaker 4: party and because like I didn't have time to party,

547
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,720
Speaker 4: but I did it because I wanted to have my

548
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 4: friends and my family with me to force me to

549
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 4: acknowledge the accomplishment that I made. Taylor, you just won

550
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 4: Wimbledon double singles I don't care, you just want you

551
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 4: can look and you can open up this green case

552
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,600
Speaker 4: and there is a trophy which your name on it

553
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 4: that says wimbleding, Like that is a big deal. And

554
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 4: because of my experiences, I would have just been like, Okay,

555
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 4: well I have to do this and this and this

556
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 4: and this, and like okay, that was cool, that was fun,

557
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,320
Speaker 4: but what's next? And I forced myself to not do

558
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 4: that because of like my experiences in the past, you know,

559
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 4: So like the moment, I honestly didn't realize the things

560
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 4: that I've accomplished until like I'm this age and even now,

561
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 4: like I had to really I didn't really do it,

562
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 4: so it's kind of on my list of things, but

563
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 4: like really sit down and marinate in like the season

564
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:21,920
Speaker 4: I had, like you did that, like you did these things,

565
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 4: you know, and like it's I realized the importance and

566
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 4: the value of that for me now to be able

567
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 4: to like fully acknowledge and embrace the things that but

568
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 4: then it gives me motivation for like the next, the next,

569
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 4: the next and next, you know, so instead of like

570
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,719
Speaker 4: just being like Okay, I got do this and this

571
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 4: and this, like no, you accomplish this. This is how

572
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 4: you did it. Okay, how we're gonna get better. So

573
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 4: it's like it's a much more healthy process. But you know,

574
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 4: I didn't realize that I was good. You know, I

575
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 4: didn't realize that I was doing extraordinary things because it

576
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 4: wasn't celebrated, it wasn't acknowledged, it wasn't you know, it

577
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: wasn't really it didn't feel special. So because it didn't

578
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 4: feel special, like I didn't think that I was doing

579
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 4: anything special, and this was the environment that I was

580
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 4: in at all times, you know. So yeah, I don't know.

581
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 4: And I just actually talked about this with my coach today.

582
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 4: I was like, I'm the kind of person who I

583
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 4: have to prove it and I have to see it

584
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 4: before Like I don't see it beforehand, I have to

585
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 4: do it. And that tells me that I know that

586
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 4: it is you know what I mean. So like I'm

587
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 4: there's one of the things that I have to work

588
00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 4: on because it's like a lot of the battles start here.

589
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 4: You have to know before you get out there and

590
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 4: start doing things. So it's one of the things that

591
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 4: I'm still working on to this day. I'm being honest with.

592
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 2: You, well, I think that's something that a lot of

593
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: women can relate to, because, you know, I think we

594
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: are living in a society in the world that often

595
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: convincess convinces us that our worth is is more diminished,

596
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 2: and so you sort of become in this mindset like,

597
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 2: am I really good? You know, we have a little

598
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 2: women tend to struggle, even the most accomplished women like yourself,

599
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: with a lot of self doubt. I mean, this is

600
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 2: amazing for me to hear you say that, given that

601
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: you were number one in the world as a junior,

602
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 2: something that hadn't been accomplished. I believe Lindsay Davenport was

603
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 2: the last American before you did it. And this year,

604
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 2: you know, you win Wimbledon and doubles. I mean, that's

605
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 2: like there's points zero zeros are a one percent of

606
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 2: people who actually get to do that, and you are,

607
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: you know, sort of one of one of the fuse.

608
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: But going back to your time as a singles player,

609
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 2: not that that part of your career is over, but

610
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 2: when you were in juniors, I have to say I

611
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: was really flabbergasted because I was unaware you went through

612
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 2: quite a battle with the USTA regarding some body shaming

613
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: that they did.

614
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 1: And I was not aware that they could.

615
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 2: They had the authority to not fund you based off

616
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 2: how you were training. For those who were not aware

617
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: of the backstory, is that when you know, when you

618
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 2: were a junior player, despite the fact you were dominating

619
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 2: as a juniors player, they question your weight and they

620
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: questioned your fitness and they were able to that impacted

621
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 2: your funding and dealing with that at sixteen years old,

622
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 2: when a lot of us are going through a lot

623
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 2: of sort of different body issues, You've dealt with it

624
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: and on a very public stage. When you reflect back

625
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: on that time in your life, what is it that

626
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 2: you're struck by in terms of how you handle dealing

627
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 2: with such you know, frankly a level of public humiliation.

628
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 4: Yeah. I think the thing that I'm the most proud

629
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,120
Speaker 4: of is that I made the decision to control the

630
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 4: narrative and I made the decision to not allow everyone

631
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 4: else to tell my story. So I said to myself,

632
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 4: I'm like, Okay, this sucks, Like this is terrible. I

633
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 4: hate talking about this. It's embarrassing, Like I'm having to

634
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 4: talk about it on a worldwide stage, Like this is

635
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 4: really embarrassing, right, and it was a catalyst effect that

636
00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 4: I didn't even know was going to happen externally and internally. Externally,

637
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,240
Speaker 4: the catalyst effect was every single time that I stepped

638
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 4: on the court, that was always a topic of conversation.

639
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 4: So whether I was playing well, if I was playing well,

640
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 4: like my movement, my breathing, everything was hyper analyzed because

641
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 4: of how I looked. So if I lost a little weight,

642
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 4: or if I was not bloated from my cycle, or

643
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 4: if I seemed or appeared smaller or more fit than

644
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:59,680
Speaker 4: people would attribute me playing well to that and the

645
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 4: end eternal battle that happened was I was always questioning,

646
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,240
Speaker 4: looking and trying to figure out what people were saying.

647
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 4: I became aware because the thing is, it's like I've

648
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 4: always been a bigger girl, so like as a kid,

649
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 4: I wasn't aware of it, because it's just like I'm

650
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 4: just playing right, and if I'm playing and I'm doing

651
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 4: what I'm supposed to do and I'm winning, Like how

652
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 4: I was taught and grown up, how I grew up

653
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 4: was like, it doesn't matter. I'm kicking ass, So you

654
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 4: can say whatever you want to say. The number speaks

655
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 4: for itself, right, The trophy speak for yourself, so you

656
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 4: can say whatever you want, right. So that was the mentality.

657
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 4: But when I got older and started dealing with when

658
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 4: that became something that became aware of, I was like,

659
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 4: oh my god. So then I started trying to figure

660
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 4: out what people were saying. You know, social media was new,

661
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:57,680
Speaker 4: so you know, then people having access to you worldwide

662
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 4: on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram didn't exist back, but you know, Twitter, Facebook,

663
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,760
Speaker 4: all of these things, and I felt like I always

664
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 4: had to defend myself, you know, And it was just like, no,

665
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 4: it wasn't I didn't play a good match because I

666
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 4: just played really well, or I executed my strategy or whatever.

667
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 4: Or I broke my opponent down. No, I did it

668
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 4: because I was more fit. Or I lost because I

669
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 4: got tired. No, I didn't get tired. Maybe I was

670
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 4: making too many errors I was doing. This was so

671
00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 4: it was always a tie. And so I was proud

672
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 4: of the way that I didn't allow the media and

673
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 4: everyone else to tell my story. I was like, no,

674
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,160
Speaker 4: this is what happened, but I'm here, and I basically

675
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 4: consciously like redirected everyone to like, no, this is what

676
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 4: I'm doing now, Oh, this is what's happening. No, that's cool,

677
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 4: that's fine, But in the midst of it, it was

678
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 4: a lot that I have had to ravel because it

679
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 4: was like a lot of my identity. And this happens

680
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 4: a lot in sports, especially when you play and you

681
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 4: become you've been engulfed at such a young age, your

682
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 4: identity becomes wrapped up in the sport, so it's very

683
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 4: hard to differentiate, like you as a person versus you

684
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 4: as an athlete, Like that doesn't come until later, later,

685
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:25,400
Speaker 4: where you know, hopefully later. For me, that came, that

686
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 4: divergence came when I got pregnant because like I had

687
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 4: to step away, Like I have never had any injuries

688
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 4: that took me away from the sport for more than

689
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:37,880
Speaker 4: you know, a couple of weeks if that, you know.

690
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,719
Speaker 4: The injury that I had this year pre French Open

691
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 4: was the first time I've ever like had to withdraw

692
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 4: from a tournament due to an injury, so like in

693
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 4: eleven almost twelve years on tour, So that can say something.

694
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 4: So that divergence didn't happen of like until I got

695
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 4: pregnant and I was away for almost twenty months, and

696
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,080
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, who am I Because this is not

697
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 4: this isn't this isn't important right now because I can't

698
00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 4: do it. I can't play tennis. I'm not out on

699
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:10,160
Speaker 4: the court. I'm not competing. I'm not playing, Like, so

700
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 4: this doesn't matter, so like who are you? And so

701
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 4: like I was proud of the way that I handled that,

702
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 4: and even today, like, you know, it's really cool because

703
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 4: a lot of people, you know, they say, oh, I

704
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 4: admire your strength and all this stuff, and but it

705
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 4: is it does take strength and it's hard, but you know,

706
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 4: it's also growth. And I think that the cool thing

707
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 4: is like, which is why a lot of people like

708
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 4: rock with me or even my fans are like stay

709
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 4: down because they know, like we've been following this person

710
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,760
Speaker 4: from this from the time she had braces and bows

711
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 4: in her hair to like all the way through. So

712
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 4: it's like it is a true appreciation for like, just

713
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 4: the same way that I have an appreciation for where

714
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 4: I am, I think other people have an appreciation for

715
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,399
Speaker 4: being able to see how much that I've grown and

716
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 4: how I've been able to maneuver through these types of situations.

717
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it was really remarkable to see it

718
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,879
Speaker 2: in real time because I don't know that a lot

719
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,919
Speaker 2: of sixteen year olds would have had the maturity, uh,

720
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 2: and certainly not to give voice to it on top

721
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: of that, because not only did you have to deal

722
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: with that, but you also gave voice to it and

723
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: voice to frankly, how a lot of women, and especially

724
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: black women, how their bodies are analyzed. I know Serena

725
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: Williams knows something about this because she went through some

726
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 2: of the same things with people in the media, which really,

727
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 2: you know, as a member of the media, is kind

728
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: of embarrassing. I was like, it ain't like we out

729
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,240
Speaker 2: here all in shape and we got Yeah.

730
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 4: It's like a lot of people that's talking, and it's

731
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 4: like you guys couldn't even you couldn't even do what

732
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 4: I'm doing exactly. And that was another thing that I

733
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 4: started having to frame where I'm just like, okay, like

734
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 4: you really have to stop caring about and being so

735
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 4: aware of what these people say. Because I literally remember

736
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 4: I was down in I was down in Florida and

737
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 4: I was doing my laundry and I saw something on

738
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,160
Speaker 4: Twitter because I had tweeted something. I was like, I'm

739
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 4: so excited to go home. I hadn't been home in

740
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 4: ten months. So I was so excited to see my dad,

741
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:10,360
Speaker 4: my sister, everyone, and someone was like, yeah, you're excited

742
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 4: to go back to your cage. You like fat monkey,

743
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 4: like black monkey, and just like tweet tweet tweet tweet,

744
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,319
Speaker 4: like so one after the other after the other. After

745
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 4: I was like, so, Dad, I remember like in that moment,

746
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 4: I'm just like wow, I'm literally just talking about how

747
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 4: I'm excited to go see my family. And this is

748
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:35,320
Speaker 4: the response, Taylor, you can't make everybody happy, like you can't,

749
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 4: Like it's impossible. It's impossible for you to think that

750
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 4: you can do things to please everyone. So and I

751
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 4: remember thinking, I'm like in this moment, I'm like fuck

752
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 4: these people. It's like literally that's what I said. I

753
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:49,759
Speaker 4: was with it.

754
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: I'd be like, man, yeah.

755
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 4: You know, I was like I said it, I'm like,

756
00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 4: fuck these people. And I looked at that and I

757
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 4: deleted tweets. I'm like, you know what, I'm done with this.

758
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 4: And I remember like a change where I'm just like yeah,

759
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 4: like and I actually did have to go through a

760
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 4: point where it was like I separated myself from social media,

761
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,960
Speaker 4: but now I'm like, bro, like y'all can't even and

762
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 4: sometimes I got time. I really do. Sometimes I have

763
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 4: time because I'm just like, okay, y'all a little bit

764
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 4: like doing too much. But it's like I really have

765
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 4: gotten to the ploor where I'm just like I just

766
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 4: don't care, Like I know the people that's in my circle,

767
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 4: the people that love and care about me, and they

768
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:30,560
Speaker 4: know who I am. What you say doesn't matter, like

769
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,200
Speaker 4: and it's even worse now because it's like you got

770
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 4: these Internet trolls that literally sit and do this all

771
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 4: day long and like search for stuff like this is

772
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,919
Speaker 4: your job, Like you have no life. So I'm out

773
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 4: here actually trying to do something and be someone and

774
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 4: putting myself out there consistently constantly, like I'm not hiding

775
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 4: in the shadows. It could have been easy for me

776
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 4: to go no, no, no, no, I'm not doing like

777
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 4: I'm front facing. So it's like that takes courage, that

778
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 4: takes bravery. And there was no body positivity movement, so

779
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:05,879
Speaker 4: like how it is now where there's body positivity inclusion,

780
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 4: like inclusion in commercials, clothing brands, all of these different

781
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:15,439
Speaker 4: type of stuff. I don't identify as a plus sized woman.

782
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 4: I'm just bigger than what everyone else is, and like

783
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,600
Speaker 4: I have a different body shape. I have a different

784
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,000
Speaker 4: body type. I was looking at my doubles partner's legs

785
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 4: and my legs and I'm like, I as my coach,

786
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 4: I said, oh, I likeingly that big. Well, her legs

787
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 4: is super small. I was like, I know, it's not that.

788
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 4: Like it was like this and like this. I was like,

789
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 4: oh my god. It was a picture room standing side

790
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 4: by side. I was like, okay, this was like wimbled

791
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 4: in this. Yall was like, okay, I know that it's

792
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 4: not like that. So it was no, it was no

793
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,560
Speaker 4: body positivity movement during that time where it was just

794
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 4: like this was some first of all, something I was

795
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 4: talked about, something that was accepted, where it was just

796
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 4: like there was a mental acceptance of like especially in sport,

797
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 4: of like different shapes and sizes that can still be effective,

798
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,480
Speaker 4: you know, not saying that like I can't be better,

799
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,439
Speaker 4: get better, be more in shape, get more fit, get

800
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 4: more ripped up. Of course I can, yes, But so

801
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,839
Speaker 4: I'm not naive to the fact of like I know

802
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,120
Speaker 4: the areas in which I need to progress, but that

803
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 4: doesn't make me any less or worse or whatever the

804
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 4: case may be. So it was just a lot of

805
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,160
Speaker 4: things where it's just like during and in the times,

806
00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 4: like we're talking ten years ago, like we're in the time.

807
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 4: These things didn't no, not even twelve years ago, like anger, yeah,

808
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 4: twelve thirteen years ago, Like these topics didn't exist. So

809
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 4: it was something where I felt like I was kind

810
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,799
Speaker 4: of like having to forge like through on my own

811
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 4: and you know, doing it at sixteen, like as a teenager,

812
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 4: all types of things to change, and like it was

813
00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 4: just it was crazy time. It's crazy work. But honestly

814
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 4: I appreciate it because it honestly it's made me like

815
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 4: who I am. And it also again just to kind

816
00:44:08,040 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 4: of circle back, taught me how to deal with tough

817
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 4: shit like from a public front facing standpoint. So I

818
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 4: was like, OK, if I can deal with that or

819
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 4: people call me fat this that, and the third like

820
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 4: I can deal with whatever else. Like the other stuff

821
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,880
Speaker 4: is is like this.

822
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 2: Well, I have a lot more I want to get

823
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 2: to with you, because I know we only have a

824
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 2: short amount of talent here.

825
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: Got to ask you of course with your time with

826
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: Cardi B.

827
00:44:34,480 --> 00:44:37,120
Speaker 2: So that is coming up after the break and we'll

828
00:44:37,160 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 2: have more with Taylor Townsend. I want to quickly go

829
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 2: back to something that you said in your answer when

830
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 2: I was asking about the body shaming that you went to.

831
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: You know, it's so funny.

832
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 2: I'm so glad that you pointed out the fact that

833
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,279
Speaker 2: it wasn't that you were ever big. It's just that

834
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,560
Speaker 2: maybe compared to other tennis player body just looks different.

835
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: Because I swear to.

836
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 2: God, when I go back and watch your highlights and

837
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 2: remembering you at that time, I'm like, wait a minute,

838
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:11,240
Speaker 2: what like they consider her to be out of shape

839
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 2: and girls? So when you go back, because I mean

840
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 2: I do that too, just with normal pictures from like

841
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 2: high school or college when I thought I was like.

842
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 1: Big, and I'm like, what was I thinking?

843
00:45:21,360 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 4: Man?

844
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 2: When you look back at those images and even maybe

845
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 2: some of your highlights or whatever, are you thinking like

846
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:29,279
Speaker 2: what what were they on?

847
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:34,320
Speaker 4: Like, girl, I haven't looked at that stuff for so long. Yeah,

848
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 4: I don't even go back and look because I just know.

849
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 4: I'm like, you are a kid. You are a child.

850
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 4: Like you are. I know as a grown woman, how

851
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 4: I feel and what happens to my body when my

852
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:53,120
Speaker 4: cycle comes. So this is like times ten as a

853
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 4: child when you're going through puberty, like I'm had braces,

854
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 4: face changing, Like I'm like, you're a child, Likes I

855
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:06,520
Speaker 4: don't even go back and look at that stuff. Like

856
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 4: I've seen old pictures and there are times when I'm

857
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,879
Speaker 4: like why people using these pictures, Like I don't even

858
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 4: look like that. But it's like I don't even go back.

859
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 4: But if I do it, or if I see it

860
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,240
Speaker 4: and it comes up, I'm just like no. Like whatever

861
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 4: they was talking about, should I pay money to get

862
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 4: back I.

863
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: Look at an old picture. I said the same thing.

864
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know what if I go back to

865
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,359
Speaker 2: that junior year in college, Man, I do that in a.

866
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 4: Minute here complaining. I'm just like, I gotta work ten

867
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 4: times harder now because it's a little slower burn. Yeah.

868
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 2: Well, and that's a great transition because I wanted to

869
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 2: ask you, I mean your your your son is now

870
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 2: three years old.

871
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,440
Speaker 1: You know you you play.

872
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 2: Pregnant and you said up until the day before you

873
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 2: get to go to the hospital. So you know, given

874
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,240
Speaker 2: all things that you had gone through in your career,

875
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 2: and we see that female athletes when it comes to

876
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 2: you know, pregnancy and post pregnancy. You know, they admitted

877
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 2: there was just a lot of things they had to

878
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 2: get over that they didn't anticipate. The postpartum looks different

879
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 2: for you, so overall, like for your experience, particularly in

880
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 2: post pregnancy, how did you handle putting the pressure on

881
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 2: yourself to you know, because we live in snapback culture,

882
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,439
Speaker 2: how did you handle that aspect of it in terms

883
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 2: of dealing with your body and the changes it was

884
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 2: going through.

885
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 4: You know what's crazy, I suffer more from the snapback

886
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 4: thing now than I did back then because I look

887
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 4: at people, like six months back on court Plan, I

888
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 4: was like, how wow, I was still expanding in six months,

889
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 4: Like I was like what like? But also this whole

890
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 4: situation like so I actually look at that because I'm

891
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 4: just like I. But then it's another thing where I'm like,

892
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 4: they got different bodies, they got different you know, genetics

893
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,719
Speaker 4: everything like that. I don't know the situation with how

894
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 4: they breastfed, right. I breastfed my son for a year,

895
00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 4: so that automatically is different boobs out to here. You know,

896
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 4: like in six months, I was a stay at home

897
00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 4: I'm for seven months straight, Like, I did not pick

898
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 4: up a racket, go to the gym or nothing until

899
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 4: my son. I didn't start going to the gym until

900
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,439
Speaker 4: my son was seven months because like, but I made

901
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 4: that decision for myself because I was like, I want

902
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 4: to know what it's like to be a mom. I

903
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 4: don't want to put the pressure on myself to have

904
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 4: to go do anything, Like I want to have a

905
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,880
Speaker 4: solid foundation with my son, understand him, so that because

906
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,760
Speaker 4: I understand my mom, like I can't do this alone,

907
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 4: Like I can't think that I can take him to

908
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 4: practice and practice for two or three hours with no interruptions.

909
00:48:56,440 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 4: It's not possible. So I know I need help. So

910
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 4: I'm going to have to have someone that comes in,

911
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 4: and I want to be able to explain to this

912
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 4: person this is the tendencies, this is how he acts,

913
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 4: this is what to look for, da da da da,

914
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,319
Speaker 4: And if there's something outside of that that they tell me,

915
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 4: then I know that there's something outside of that, you know.

916
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 4: So I wanted to that was more important to me

917
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 4: than anything in the world. So and it worked out

918
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 4: well for me, Like that's okay, But yeah, the snapback

919
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:33,640
Speaker 4: culture is crazy, like it's it's so like to me,

920
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 4: it's unrealistic. But what gives me the motivation and the

921
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:39,919
Speaker 4: strength is that the work that I had to put

922
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 4: into just like just step back out on this sport.

923
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 4: Like I said, I made a proclamation to myself that

924
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,839
Speaker 4: I said, I will not return back to play until

925
00:49:48,080 --> 00:49:51,720
Speaker 4: unless I'm better than I was when I was leaving.

926
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,919
Speaker 4: If I'm not better, I'm not coming back until I'm better.

927
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,200
Speaker 4: So I made that proclamation to myself. I didn't know

928
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 4: how long I was going to take. I didn't know

929
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 4: how like what that looked like. I said that and

930
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 4: it sounded great, but I didn't know what that meant

931
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 4: until I was in it. I was like, oh my god,

932
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:12,399
Speaker 4: oh wow, there's a lot of work. But so that's

933
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:15,359
Speaker 4: honestly what gives me the strength and like to know,

934
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,319
Speaker 4: like I had to lose almost one hundred pounds, like

935
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 4: a lot of people don't know that. Like I was huge,

936
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 4: and you know, breastfeeding, you know, having to I was.

937
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 4: I was waking up at four in the morning to

938
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 4: pump before fitness, after working out, pump again, pump before practice.

939
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:38,640
Speaker 4: You know, like doing all of these things like I

940
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 4: had to. It was work. It was hard work, and

941
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,719
Speaker 4: so it gives me so much strength and motivation because

942
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 4: I'm like, I know what I did, So it's like

943
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:51,920
Speaker 4: there's where it's like it's easy for people on the

944
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 4: outside to kind of like diminish things that you've done

945
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 4: based on their opinions and things. But I'm like, with

946
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 4: this particular situation, I know what I went through, I

947
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,239
Speaker 4: know what I did, I know the work that I

948
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 4: put in. I know that had a whole day with

949
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 4: a baby and I had to find time while he's

950
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,520
Speaker 4: napping or when he's down in this to get my

951
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,560
Speaker 4: little workouts in and do what I had to do

952
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,200
Speaker 4: and starve myself and you know all of the things.

953
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 4: Like so there's nothing because there was nobody around. There

954
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:25,799
Speaker 4: was no glitz, there was no glamour, there was no

955
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 4: observation outside of myself and the people close to me.

956
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 4: So I'm like, I know what I did to be here,

957
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 4: So like that fuels me because I know, like, first

958
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 4: of all, it's it's I'm grateful to be on the

959
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 4: tennis court. I'm grateful to be here because like even

960
00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:45,479
Speaker 4: for me, I had a fantastic pregnancy emergency sea section

961
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 4: out of nowhere. Didn't expect that, didn't whatever, but it

962
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:51,480
Speaker 4: had to happen.

963
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 2: So it's like, how did that impact your recovery? Well, yeah,

964
00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 2: I think this assumption that if you get a C

965
00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 2: section is all good. Oh no, they heard from many

966
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 2: about this real process, Like.

967
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 1: What was what was that?

968
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 4: It was so hard because I've never had surgery before,

969
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 4: so like I couldn't get up on my own, I

970
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:11,439
Speaker 4: couldn't sit down by myself. I couldn't sit on the toilet,

971
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 4: I couldn't want my ass so I'm like I couldn't

972
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 4: shower on my own, Like for two weeks, I didn't

973
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:18,799
Speaker 4: go up or down my steps, so my sister had

974
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:23,520
Speaker 4: to bring everything to me up. Like it was really

975
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,240
Speaker 4: really hard psychologically as well, because I'm a very self

976
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,280
Speaker 4: I'm an independent person, you know, so for me psychologically,

977
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 4: like I can't tell how many times I broke down

978
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 4: because it's just like I don't like asking for help,

979
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 4: So even psychologically, how many times I had to be

980
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 4: like can you help me? Can you help me? Can

981
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 4: you help me? Then I started feeling guilty for how

982
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 4: many times I had why do you go to the bathroom? Now?

983
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 4: I need to be again? You know, It's just like

984
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 4: it was hard, like psychologically for somebody who is independent,

985
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 4: who's been doing things on their own since they're fourteen

986
00:52:57,160 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 4: years old, like to have to ask to do everything.

987
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 4: It is very difficult. And even with that, then it

988
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 4: was just like, okay, I remember going outside. Finally cool,

989
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 4: three weeks, finally can go outside. I wasn't scared to

990
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 4: go up or down the steps because they were like,

991
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 4: be careful with that because you can rip the stitches,

992
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:18,000
Speaker 4: and then that's a whole other problem. No, thank you.

993
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 4: So finally go outside, all right, take the baby on

994
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 4: the walk. Okay. I made it to the stop side

995
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,359
Speaker 4: at the end of the block that's three houses, one,

996
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:33,960
Speaker 4: two three. I was like, shit, I'm tired. And it

997
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 4: was like I turned around, turned tollaid. Damn, I gotta

998
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:39,839
Speaker 4: go back. I gotta make it back. You went down,

999
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,880
Speaker 4: you gotta get back. Oh okay, let me take a

1000
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 4: great hold on.

1001
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 2: Like, even with all that you've gone through though and

1002
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 2: recovery and all of that, how would you say, though,

1003
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,240
Speaker 2: that motherhood has made you a better tennis player.

1004
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,440
Speaker 4: Oh, it's it's completely changed me. It's first of all,

1005
00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 4: I was giving me a different level of motor because

1006
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 4: I have something outside of myself. You know. It's just

1007
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 4: like before it was just like, yeah, this is my goal,

1008
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 4: Like this is what I want. I want right but

1009
00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:14,359
Speaker 4: now you have someone else depending on you, and that's

1010
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 4: a completely different feeling. That's completely different motivation. Also, a

1011
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 4: big thing that motherhood has changed is the fact that

1012
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 4: losses or wins aren't so you know more so losses

1013
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:37,279
Speaker 4: like losses aren't so bad because I know it's not

1014
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:39,400
Speaker 4: the end of the world. Before it was like I

1015
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 4: was sold for two days, three days, like just feeling bad,

1016
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:46,799
Speaker 4: you know whatever. But now it's like I can call

1017
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 4: and be like, hey, mommy, you're doing great. You did

1018
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 4: so good, you look so nice. And Aj is like

1019
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 4: he's so like in touch with his feelings and emotions,

1020
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,279
Speaker 4: so he'll just like be like, mommy, I love you.

1021
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 4: So it's like, even with that, it gives me the

1022
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 4: ability to kind of like not sit in things so long.

1023
00:55:08,680 --> 00:55:10,759
Speaker 4: You can feel it, but it's just like, okay, I

1024
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 4: can move. It helped me to move on faster, and

1025
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 4: it's super special because just like I know that like

1026
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 4: even when I'm done. That was another scary thing. I

1027
00:55:22,160 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 4: didn't know what I was going to do when I

1028
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:28,440
Speaker 4: was done playing tennis, because again, identity and sense of

1029
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 4: self is so wrapped up and you're on court and

1030
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,400
Speaker 4: who you are in this world right, So I didn't know.

1031
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 4: But then now I'm just like, it has given me

1032
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:40,720
Speaker 4: the motivation to be like, Okay, there's so many things

1033
00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:42,960
Speaker 4: that I want to do, and you know, even looking

1034
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 4: forward to just being home and spending time with my child,

1035
00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:49,760
Speaker 4: like that's enough for me, you know. So it's definitely

1036
00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 4: changed my perspective in terms of like what's important, you know,

1037
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:55,720
Speaker 4: And I realized I'm not saying that tennis is less important,

1038
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:56,919
Speaker 4: but it's just.

1039
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:02,440
Speaker 2: Not everybody whole identity is wrapped up into it, maybe

1040
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 2: like it was before. One kind of question before we

1041
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:09,839
Speaker 2: get to the messy question of the podcast, what Yes,

1042
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 2: Gotta ask you a messy question? So, how would you

1043
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 2: characterize or rate the support because this is also something

1044
00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 2: that a lot of fans and people who are just

1045
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:21,919
Speaker 2: casual observers don't know about. There's quite a few women

1046
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 2: who are mothers on the tour, So where is the

1047
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:29,520
Speaker 2: tour in terms of supporting mothers on the tour?

1048
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 1: Like what how would you characterize that support?

1049
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:34,800
Speaker 4: I think it's so I would characterize it as a

1050
00:56:34,840 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 4: work in progress, like like any like all sports. Really,

1051
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 4: until you had those people who did it, it was

1052
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,080
Speaker 4: one of the things where it's like women had to choose.

1053
00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:50,640
Speaker 4: If I'm want a family, then I have to stop,

1054
00:56:51,080 --> 00:56:55,439
Speaker 4: I have to retire. Like coming back wasn't really think.

1055
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 4: You know, Kim Kleiser's was the first one to have

1056
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 4: kids come back win a slam, and it was I

1057
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 4: remember that, and I remember watching and when she brought

1058
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 4: her daughter on this on the court like on ash

1059
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 4: during her trophy ceremony, I'm like, well, that's so cool,

1060
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:15,080
Speaker 4: like imagine I couldn't imagine back think so I was

1061
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:17,840
Speaker 4: so young. And also I didn't, to be honest, I

1062
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 4: didn't want kids. So it's kind of like a crazy

1063
00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 4: thing where like so maternal. I did not want kids.

1064
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 4: I was like, when I'm done playing, I wouldn't be

1065
00:57:25,920 --> 00:57:27,680
Speaker 4: able to have my time to do what I want,

1066
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:30,000
Speaker 4: like you know, we travel, we do all this stuff,

1067
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 4: Like I just want to freedom, right. So I think

1068
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 4: that it's a work in progress. Now that it's happening

1069
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 4: more and more, I think that it's something where they

1070
00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 4: can't deny it. And you know, so they have you know,

1071
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 4: daycares or they call them crushes at the tennis sites

1072
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 4: where you can you know, basically bring your kid and

1073
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 4: leave them for the day and you know, they have

1074
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,640
Speaker 4: helped to be able to you maybe give room preferences

1075
00:58:02,760 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 4: or bigger room options if you're going to have your

1076
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 4: child with you. So it's like let's just say you

1077
00:58:07,920 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 4: have to pay way way way more for a suite

1078
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,480
Speaker 4: or for you know whatever, like maybe there's more options

1079
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:19,920
Speaker 4: to have those available if you're bringing your child with you.

1080
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:22,520
Speaker 4: You know, I'm an executive member of the PTOPA, and

1081
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:27,840
Speaker 4: that's a big, you know, kind of focus for them

1082
00:58:27,960 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 4: is being able to help represent you know, all athletes

1083
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 4: and the athletes being moms as well. So you know,

1084
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 4: there's not a great system for insurance. You know, there's

1085
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 4: not a great system for making sure that you're taken

1086
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 4: care of and if it's fine for the player, but

1087
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 4: if you want to add someone as expensive as hell,

1088
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 4: you know. So it's like if you're traveling internationally with

1089
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 4: a child, you want to make sure that they're covered

1090
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:58,360
Speaker 4: if anything were to go wrong. So there's definitely parts

1091
00:58:58,560 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 4: that are being addressed, but there are a lot of

1092
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 4: other things that I feel like can be better. And

1093
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 4: you know, whether it be financial support, whether it be

1094
00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:15,400
Speaker 4: whatever the case may be, where it's like you know

1095
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:19,840
Speaker 4: their specific situation because being a being getting pregnant is

1096
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 4: like a unique scenario and situation to only women and

1097
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 4: to like this small subset of people. Right, So it's

1098
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,000
Speaker 4: not something that you can fake or you know, you

1099
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,360
Speaker 4: can fake an injury or say I'm hurt to get

1100
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 4: time off, right, This is not something like that. So

1101
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 4: you know, I feel like there can be other things

1102
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:41,880
Speaker 4: or other initiatives put in place to kind of help

1103
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 4: bring make it easier, you know, for me, Like personally,

1104
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 4: I travel a lot on my own because I don't

1105
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 4: feel like it's easy or there's a ease about traveling

1106
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 4: with a child, you know. And again, and like I said,

1107
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 4: I'm very fortunate because I have an amazing I have help,

1108
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:08,720
Speaker 4: and you know it's not free, but it's fantastic. But

1109
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 4: you know, even with that, I got a grant while

1110
01:00:13,560 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 4: I was pregnant or like right after I got pregnant

1111
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 4: with or right after I had AJ from the Women's

1112
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 4: Sports Foundation for twenty thousand and it was through an

1113
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 4: initiative with Alison Felix and the Women's Sports Foundation, And

1114
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 4: you know, I put that towards my nanny, and I

1115
01:00:32,480 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 4: was just like this was so helpful because it's like,

1116
01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 4: you know, I'm not playing, I'm not making any money.

1117
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,080
Speaker 4: I don't have sponsors, so it's just like I didn't

1118
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:42,440
Speaker 4: have any residual income. So to be able to receive

1119
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 4: something like that was like huge for me because that

1120
01:00:44,800 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 4: was able to take a lot off of my plate

1121
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:49,040
Speaker 4: for at least a little bit of top for some months. Right.

1122
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 4: So even having initiatives putting him in like that through

1123
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 4: our organizations or through sponsorships of the organizations like that

1124
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 4: be really helpful because so many things fall on us

1125
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:06,120
Speaker 4: as athletes and as players, Like there's very few things

1126
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 4: that are taken care of by the tournaments, by the tours,

1127
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,840
Speaker 4: So to be able to kind of like offset some

1128
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 4: of those costs that you that you have when you're

1129
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 4: away from the game for however long, then that could

1130
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 4: be really helpful. And also it can help to not

1131
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:23,840
Speaker 4: feel like I have to rush to get back.

1132
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:25,920
Speaker 1: On tour, you know.

1133
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 4: So it can give you a little bit more peace

1134
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:30,080
Speaker 4: of mind of knowing that I can kind of like

1135
01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:33,400
Speaker 4: take my time and slow step if that's what the

1136
01:01:33,440 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 4: player or the athlete wants, you know.

1137
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 2: So now to the messy question of the podcast. This

1138
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 2: is where all the controversy happens.

1139
01:01:41,040 --> 01:01:43,200
Speaker 4: I love it right.

1140
01:01:43,240 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: We all love a little mess.

1141
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 2: So you I think it was last year you you

1142
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 2: taught Carti B a little bit about tennis or how

1143
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 2: to play at a little bit of tennis. On her

1144
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:57,040
Speaker 2: show Carti Tries where she tries different things. But I

1145
01:01:57,040 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 2: think it is a brilliant idea. And how would you

1146
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:03,680
Speaker 2: rate Cardi B's athleticism.

1147
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 4: I'm gonna say I tried.

1148
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 2: Because I saw some footage and I was like, hmmm, yeah,

1149
01:02:13,000 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 2: Tallada Rapper.

1150
01:02:13,960 --> 01:02:16,080
Speaker 1: Don't know if athleticism and sports is her thing?

1151
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:22,320
Speaker 4: No, definitely not. She's not an athlete. It was really interesting.

1152
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 4: First I didn't know she was left handed, so that

1153
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 4: was cool. Another thing is like I so when she

1154
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 4: was about to fall out and die, I was like,

1155
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,520
Speaker 4: She's like, I need to sit down. So she went

1156
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 4: on the bench. Is like when you guys saw her

1157
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 4: like lay down and she was like who Like she

1158
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 4: literally was laying down and we took like a fifteen

1159
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 4: minute break. But I found out that she had was

1160
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 4: in the studio like all night, so she had came

1161
01:02:46,920 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 4: from the studio, didn't sleep, came from the studio to

1162
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:52,400
Speaker 4: the set to shoot, so she was like exhausted. So

1163
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 4: I was just like, okay, Like I get it because

1164
01:02:54,320 --> 01:02:56,000
Speaker 4: I had the whole list. I was like, we about

1165
01:02:56,000 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 4: to do running drills, we about to do lunges and

1166
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 4: all this type of stuff, right, let's like just throw

1167
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 4: it all in. So yeah, I definitely saw. I'm like, okay,

1168
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 4: like sports is not her thing, Normani, she's an athlete.

1169
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:15,040
Speaker 4: And then when I talked to her, I'm like, what

1170
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 4: did you do? She's like, yeah, did gymnastis and I

1171
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 4: played this and I was like, Okay, that makes sense

1172
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 4: because the things that I was telling her, like her

1173
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 4: body awareness and her hand eye corners, like she was

1174
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,040
Speaker 4: able to get it fast. And one of the things

1175
01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 4: I was the most impressive was with the serve because

1176
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:29,240
Speaker 4: that's not easy, like to be able to time like

1177
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:31,440
Speaker 4: the ball going up, coming down and then when you

1178
01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 4: hit and like she got it quick. So I was

1179
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 4: just like, okay, like she's an athlete, CARTI No, We're

1180
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 4: gonna stick to music and dancing and making sure that

1181
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 4: she keep telling us her hair routine because she got

1182
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 4: fabulous inches. We need that.

1183
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:55,439
Speaker 2: That's a little surprising because I've seen I've never seen

1184
01:03:55,440 --> 01:03:58,120
Speaker 2: her in person, been seeing her perform on stage like

1185
01:03:58,240 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 2: that requires some athletics.

1186
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:03,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, I asked her that because so I'm gonna tell you,

1187
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 4: I could be anger. Sometimes I would just ask things

1188
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,160
Speaker 4: that come to mind because I was like, something's not

1189
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,160
Speaker 4: making sense to me. I say, you sing and dance

1190
01:04:13,360 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 4: and do all of this stuff for hours? How can

1191
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:22,320
Speaker 4: you not? How do not work out? Well, it's just

1192
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 4: different how how how sway? So I was like, I

1193
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 4: didn't quite understand that, but I guess it is just

1194
01:04:32,400 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 4: a different type of thing, and you know, it's it

1195
01:04:35,600 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 4: kind of put in perspective like, okay, like just the

1196
01:04:38,120 --> 01:04:40,120
Speaker 4: same way. Is this something I've been doing for years?

1197
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 4: Like you get you can train yourself to be better

1198
01:04:44,040 --> 01:04:47,760
Speaker 4: at certain things, right, so like breathing or knowing how

1199
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 4: to do certain things like when you're performing. But I'm

1200
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,360
Speaker 4: like to be able to run or like do side

1201
01:04:52,400 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 4: to side or coordinate watching something coming hitting, like it's

1202
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:00,440
Speaker 4: just you know, it's it's different. I was just like,

1203
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 4: how do you how are you so tired?

1204
01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:06,440
Speaker 2: And heels and heels sometimes and like its elaborate office.

1205
01:05:06,480 --> 01:05:09,720
Speaker 2: So it's really it was really very eye opening about

1206
01:05:09,920 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 2: sometimes you have different skill sets in different areas well. Taylor,

1207
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:15,200
Speaker 2: I want to thank you so much for spending this

1208
01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 2: time with me. It's great to catch up with you

1209
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 2: and to hear about mommyhood. And obviously this was twenty

1210
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 2: twenty four was a great year for you. I'm sure

1211
01:05:23,000 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 2: there's way more of that to come, more success, So

1212
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:28,600
Speaker 2: continue to keep doing what you're doing and being a

1213
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,240
Speaker 2: voice like you know, the way that you have advocated

1214
01:05:31,240 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 2: for yourself and by extension, advocated for others is really

1215
01:05:34,160 --> 01:05:34,840
Speaker 2: quite admirable.

1216
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 1: So I just want to thank you for spending this time.

1217
01:05:36,920 --> 01:05:38,640
Speaker 4: Thank you, and I have fun. It's good to see

1218
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 4: you again after all these years. And yeah, I hope

1219
01:05:41,200 --> 01:05:42,760
Speaker 4: to run into you in person sometime.

1220
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:45,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're a hole grown lady. Now you're o G

1221
01:05:46,160 --> 01:05:47,280
Speaker 1: on the tennis score.

1222
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:47,480
Speaker 4: Now.

1223
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,440
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm really that old time you are?

1224
01:05:54,200 --> 01:05:57,600
Speaker 2: You really are so many I had a conversation with

1225
01:05:57,640 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 2: Sloan Steve was about that same thing.

1226
01:05:59,200 --> 01:06:01,160
Speaker 1: She like, they looking at me like, oh you the

1227
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 1: o G.

1228
01:06:01,600 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 4: You the icon tell us what to do. She's like,

1229
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:08,440
Speaker 4: but I'm just thirty, like, hey, hey Auntie, hold on.

1230
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 4: You're like hold on now, great Auntie. I was.

1231
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:17,280
Speaker 1: Wet to the same age.

1232
01:06:18,720 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 2: Wait my mind, one more segment to go, and you

1233
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 2: guys know what that means I got questions to answer

1234
01:06:27,240 --> 01:06:31,640
Speaker 2: up next, your viewer slash listener questions, and I have

1235
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 2: plenty of answers coming up next. On the final segment

1236
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:36,200
Speaker 2: of Spota, diis.

1237
01:06:43,480 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 4: All right, people.

1238
01:06:44,080 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 2: Time to close out this week's episode with an audience

1239
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:49,560
Speaker 2: question from Kyra Stewart six sixty six not that that

1240
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:54,000
Speaker 2: isn't spooky, who asked this question via Instagram. Kira asked,

1241
01:06:54,040 --> 01:06:56,880
Speaker 2: why haven't you addressed Nelly and Snoop's performers at the

1242
01:06:56,880 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 2: Crypto pre inauguration so by now, I'm sure you all

1243
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 2: know that Snoop and Nelly both performed for Trump's pre

1244
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:05,960
Speaker 2: inauguration festivities last week, and people, as in our people

1245
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:09,760
Speaker 2: were understandably upset and disappointed, and I think a lot

1246
01:07:09,760 --> 01:07:11,800
Speaker 2: of people were just hurt. Now, I live in Los

1247
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 2: Angeles and I can personally attest that Snoop does a

1248
01:07:14,200 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 2: lot of work in our community. This isn't a question

1249
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,680
Speaker 2: about whether or not Snoop loves black people or if

1250
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:22,560
Speaker 2: he's ashamed of being black. He does love black people

1251
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:24,720
Speaker 2: and he is not ashamed of being black. This is

1252
01:07:24,760 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 2: a question of whether Snoop and Nelly understood that in

1253
01:07:27,320 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 2: this moment when the community they are both so connected

1254
01:07:30,440 --> 01:07:33,880
Speaker 2: to is trying to process what this presidency means and

1255
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 2: understanding that our community, our elders, our young people, our

1256
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:41,600
Speaker 2: working class people will be disproportionately impacted by a president

1257
01:07:41,640 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 2: who is moving the way this one is moving. We

1258
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 2: need people in their positions to hold the line. Hey, Nellie, listen.

1259
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 2: I admire and respect the military as well, but showing

1260
01:07:49,800 --> 01:07:52,360
Speaker 2: your love of country doesn't mean blind loyalty. And if

1261
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:55,120
Speaker 2: you feel that strongly about the military, you can always

1262
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 2: go perform at any military base you Performing there both

1263
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 2: of you is almost a sanction in a high five

1264
01:08:01,920 --> 01:08:04,520
Speaker 2: to this president. And no disrespect to Sojio boy, which

1265
01:08:04,560 --> 01:08:07,160
Speaker 2: means I'm about to disrespect soldier boy, but I expect

1266
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 2: him to be the rapper and take a check from Trump.

1267
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:13,160
Speaker 2: That wasn't my expectation of smooth and melo. Thank you,

1268
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:16,280
Speaker 2: Kyra for your question. As for the rest of you,

1269
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 2: if you would like to ask me a question, I'm

1270
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:21,879
Speaker 2: at Jamail Hill across all social media platforms Twitter, Instagram,

1271
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 2: Bluesty and threads, please use the hashtags politics. You also

1272
01:08:26,200 --> 01:08:29,040
Speaker 2: have the option of emailing me at Politics twenty twenty

1273
01:08:29,040 --> 01:08:31,479
Speaker 2: four at gmail dot com. You can also send me

1274
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:33,639
Speaker 2: a video of your question, but please make sure it's

1275
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:36,839
Speaker 2: thirty seconds or less. Don't forget to follow and subscribe

1276
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:40,440
Speaker 2: to Politics on iHeart and follow spolitics pod on Instagram

1277
01:08:40,479 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 2: and TikTok.

1278
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:43,160
Speaker 1: It's still exist, doesn't it anyways?

1279
01:08:43,200 --> 01:08:47,320
Speaker 2: Politics is spelled s po l I Tics. A new

1280
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:50,400
Speaker 2: episode of Politics drops every Thursday on iHeart Podcasts or

1281
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. This is politics where sports

1282
01:08:54,160 --> 01:09:00,599
Speaker 2: and politics don't just mix, they Matterlitics is a production

1283
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:04,360
Speaker 2: of iHeart podcast and The Unbothered Network. I'm your host

1284
01:09:04,479 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 2: Jamel Hill. Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne. Lucas Hyman is

1285
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 2: head of Audio and executive producer. Megan Armstrong is associate producer.

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Speaker 2: Original music First Politics provided by Kyle Visk from wiz

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Speaker 2: FX