Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Hey Mestie is today on the bright Side.
Speaker 2: Activist, actor and podcaster Jamila Jamil is here to talk
Speaker 2: about feminism, body confidence, and why she just doesn't care
Speaker 2: about likability.
Speaker 3: It's Friday, May seventeenth.
Speaker 4: I'm Simone Voice, I'm Danielle Robe and this is the
Speaker 4: bright Side from Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 2: Okay, so it's Friday, Danielle. What are you looking forward
Speaker 2: to this weekend? You're still in New York right.
Speaker 4: Yes, I'm looking forward to just walking and walking and
Speaker 4: walking the streets. It's so fun. I'm definitely going to
Speaker 4: watch some basketball. The playoffs are happening, and I'm going
Speaker 4: to a peoplehood class.
Speaker 1: Simone. I think you're gonna love this.
Speaker 3: What is a pupil hood class?
Speaker 4: So it's a sixty minute class where you listen and
Speaker 4: the co founders there's two women who founded soul Cycle,
Speaker 4: who started this, and it's like a group conversation.
Speaker 1: You go in for sixty minutes.
Speaker 4: There's breathwork, there's music, and you practice listening.
Speaker 2: Interesting. I'm very curious. I can't wait to listen to
Speaker 2: your experience on this.
Speaker 4: I'm really excited about it because they've been focusing on
Speaker 4: physical health and wellness for so long, and they saw
Speaker 4: a gap in the marketplace for social wealth and connection.
Speaker 4: And I mean, I feel that's like my whole ethos.
Speaker 4: I was like, sign me up. So I can't wait.
Speaker 4: I'm going to report back. What are you looking forward to?
Speaker 2: So this weekend, I'm actually going to be in Nashville
Speaker 2: on a retreat with a bunch of people that I
Speaker 2: don't know. I know one person who's going to be there.
Speaker 2: The rest is a mystery. I'm honestly a little bit
Speaker 2: nervous because it's going to be a lot of group
Speaker 2: therapy sessions and I'm getting a lot of listening, a
Speaker 2: lot of listening, a lot of sharing, which I don't
Speaker 2: always do that easily.
Speaker 3: It's taken me a little while to warm up to
Speaker 3: that on this podcast.
Speaker 2: Even so, I'm a little bit nervous, but I think
Speaker 2: it'll be a really good experience and I'm sure i'll
Speaker 2: learn a lot.
Speaker 4: Those types of retreats are really rejuvenating when they're done, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I hope.
Speaker 2: So, Danielle, you may not know that today is a holiday.
Speaker 2: M I don't know to what day is it? Today
Speaker 2: is National Graduation Tassel Day. I'm sure you had that
Speaker 2: marked on your calendar, as did all of our listeners.
Speaker 4: That's like saying today is National Color Red Day. There's
Speaker 4: just so many days, so I kind of like this
Speaker 4: one though.
Speaker 2: Well, it's the perfect opportunity to give a big bright
Speaker 2: side shout out to all the high school and college grads.
Speaker 3: This is such an exciting time in your life. The
Speaker 3: best is yet to come.
Speaker 4: I love grad time. It is such a happy time.
Speaker 4: It feels like.
Speaker 1: So much is on the horizon.
Speaker 4: I remember feeling so terrified when I was graduating because
Speaker 4: I didn't have a job.
Speaker 1: Do you remember how you felt.
Speaker 2: I hopped on a plane the day after graduation and
Speaker 2: moved to Los Angeles.
Speaker 1: So I just did the same thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I didn't allow myself to feel scared.
Speaker 4: I just went what advice would you give twenty two
Speaker 4: year old Simon on graduation day?
Speaker 3: Don't cry as much.
Speaker 2: My friends and I we held this graduation dinner with
Speaker 2: all of our families. It was actually really epic, and
Speaker 2: I'm proud of us for pulling it off because we
Speaker 2: were not the best planners. So it was like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, forty people, you know, it was our group
Speaker 2: of friends and everyone's parents. And by the end of
Speaker 2: the night, me and my friend Christy were just sobbing.
Speaker 2: Like the whole night, we could not clog the tear ducks.
Speaker 2: The tears just kept coming because we had such an incredible,
Speaker 2: rich social experience in college and we were so sad
Speaker 2: that it was ending.
Speaker 3: That hit me like a brick wall.
Speaker 1: Well, you loved your girlfriends in college too. You guys
Speaker 1: are super tight.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're super tight.
Speaker 2: So but I think, on that note, realize that you'll
Speaker 2: still make incredible friends as you get older, and you'll
Speaker 2: still form really rich friendships even in adulthood.
Speaker 3: How about you. What advice would you offer young Danielle.
Speaker 4: There's a lot. I would say, put some of the
Speaker 4: spray tan away. It's too orange for you. No really, though,
Speaker 4: I actually wrote a role doll quote on my graduation
Speaker 4: I see a lot of people writing quotes on their
Speaker 4: hats nowadays too.
Speaker 1: Mine was bedazzled. I still have it in my childhood.
Speaker 4: Bedroom, and it's a roll doll quote. It says those
Speaker 4: who don't believe in magic will never find it. And
Speaker 4: I kind of stick by that, to be honest, because
Speaker 4: I really believe that, Like half the Battle of accomplishing
Speaker 4: anything is just believing that you can. And so I've
Speaker 4: always been a big believer in trying to find the magic.
Speaker 1: I've been after it my whole life.
Speaker 2: I guess I totally see that you absolutely have lived
Speaker 2: by that quote and you do have to be a
Speaker 2: little bit du Lulu.
Speaker 3: That's the Sululu.
Speaker 4: After the break, Jami Jamil tells us all about her
Speaker 4: activism and how she's promoting women's safety.
Speaker 1: We're back with a very special guest.
Speaker 4: Jamila Jamil is an actor, TV personality, podcaster and activist.
Speaker 4: A true multi hyphenate, she spent years as a TV
Speaker 4: presenter in the UK before pivoting to acting in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 4: Listeners might know her from her role as to Hani
Speaker 4: Al Jamil in NBC's The Good Place, or from her
Speaker 4: Eyeway movement, which she created in twenty eighteen as a
Speaker 4: challenge to diet culture Danielle.
Speaker 2: It's no exaggeration to say that Jamila has been super
Speaker 2: outspoken in her advocacy on a variety of issues, creating
Speaker 2: a radically inclusive platform for conversations about mental health, body confidence,
Speaker 2: and what it looks like to be a feminist in progress.
Speaker 3: Jamila welcome to the bright Side.
Speaker 1: Hello Jamila.
Speaker 2: Before we jump into your incredible journey, we want to
Speaker 2: talk about Move your Mind. That's an event that you're
Speaker 2: holding in New York to promote women's safety, and this
Speaker 2: is on the heels of this horrific outbreak of assaults
Speaker 2: in New York City on men and women. But tell
Speaker 2: us a little bit about the purpose behind Move your
Speaker 2: Mind and what you hope to accomplish.
Speaker 5: Move your Mind is a kind of social or cultural
Speaker 5: movement that is designed to democratize exercise. It is designed
Speaker 5: to help people who feel as though exercise has become
Speaker 5: far too intertwined with diet culture, and it's become so
Speaker 5: bastardized by the bloody diet industry that it means a
Speaker 5: lot of people feel demotivated. A lot of people feel
Speaker 5: unwelcoming exercise spaces. They don't want to wear the uniform
Speaker 5: of the little bra and the little shorts or the
Speaker 5: tight leggings. And that's fine, that's fine if you want
Speaker 5: to wear those things, but a lot of people don't.
Speaker 5: A lot of people don't want to dress in that way,
Speaker 5: and they don't want to feel objectified.
Speaker 1: They want to feel invisible.
Speaker 5: A lot of people don't like the fact that now
Speaker 5: influencers film themselves at the gym in a way that
Speaker 5: other people can be seen in the background. Some influencers
Speaker 5: actually actively film other people at the gym to ridicule
Speaker 5: them in some way, you know, make fun of them.
Speaker 5: And so it just doesn't feel like a safe space
Speaker 5: at all most gymnasiums, And unfortunately, the reason for the
Speaker 5: event in New York is that a gymnasium is one
Speaker 5: of the only places where women in particular might feel
Speaker 5: safer to exercise, because after the sun goes down, you
Speaker 5: can't go for that walk without the added stress of
Speaker 5: worrying about how you're going to get home alive. Getting
Speaker 5: home safe after sundown is a privilege for women, it's
Speaker 5: not a right. And so I wanted to create a
Speaker 5: way that women could come together talk about this as
Speaker 5: the insane phenomenon that it is that we just live
Speaker 5: with as a norm. And I wanted to talk to
Speaker 5: a former Secret Service agent who's very, very focused and
Speaker 5: skilled around safety, and she's going to talk to us
Speaker 5: about safety and give us some tips on ways in
Speaker 5: which we would be able to immediately have a better
Speaker 5: chance of securing ourselves if in a state of combat
Speaker 5: of any kind. And then when we're all like hyped
Speaker 5: up and ready to fucking fight, we're going to go
Speaker 5: on a big old walk in New York at night together.
Speaker 5: And if you don't want to talk to other people,
Speaker 5: you can just listen to your headphones and enjoy the
Speaker 5: feeling of walking at night with your headphones without having
Speaker 5: to have your keys digging into the sides of your fingers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're tapping into this very real issue epidemic, a
Speaker 2: lack of safety for women, you know. According to research
Speaker 2: from the Office for National Statistics in the UK, one
Speaker 2: in two women fifty percent feel unsafe walking alone after
Speaker 2: dark in a busy place, compared to one in five men.
Speaker 2: I lift weights because it makes me feel strong, and
Speaker 2: it makes me feel safe in a world where women
Speaker 2: feel unsafe.
Speaker 3: What do you do to feel strong?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 3: What gives you strength?
Speaker 5: I have enjoyed learning how to fight, and I like
Speaker 5: knowing that I have some skills to be able to
Speaker 5: kick the fucking shit out of someone if I need to.
Speaker 5: And my friends noticed after I did Marvel, because it
Speaker 5: was so much fight training involved five days a week,
Speaker 5: that my gait like the way I walk and the
Speaker 5: way I stand had changed, and I walked with my
Speaker 5: shoulders back and more confidence. Without even realizing it, I
Speaker 5: had less fear. In an uber I had less fear.
Speaker 5: You know, obviously I will always be vulnerable, but generally
Speaker 5: knowing that I have some form because there's I understand
Speaker 5: the desire to be like We shouldn't have to do this.
Speaker 5: We shouldn't have to live like this. We shouldn't have
Speaker 5: to learn how to defend ourselves. We shouldn't have to
Speaker 5: carry mace on our key rings, we shouldn't have to
Speaker 5: have pepper spray, blah blah blah, rape alarm. It is exhausting.
Speaker 5: And also it's why we have to have such big handbags,
Speaker 5: and that's annoying. So it's a form of discrimination we
Speaker 5: don't talk about. But while we wait to live in
Speaker 5: a world that is safer for women, we need to
Speaker 5: do something. We need some action to take this into
Speaker 5: our own hands. And there's no point saying, oh, this
Speaker 5: is so unfair on us. We can and we must
Speaker 5: say that, but we can't end there. We have to
Speaker 5: learn how to actually physically make ourselves safer. We can
Speaker 5: accept the victimhood, but we must not sit in it.
Speaker 2: Yes, I refuse to feel disempowered while I'm waiting for
Speaker 2: the world to change.
Speaker 4: Well, you mentioned safe Spaces a few minutes ago, and
Speaker 4: I've followed you on Instagram but also followed your career
Speaker 4: for a while, and I noticed that most people who
Speaker 4: rise to fame get famous for what they do, and
Speaker 4: then down the line choose something that they attach themselves to.
Speaker 4: Philanthropy wise, you got a megaphone and started yelling and
Speaker 4: talking about injustice and I was wondering if that was
Speaker 4: a choice back then or if there was any fear there.
Speaker 5: No, And long before you knew I was speaking about things,
Speaker 5: I was speaking about it when I was well known
Speaker 5: in England. Like I've been very very vocal since I
Speaker 5: was about nineteen, but then really since I was twenty six.
Speaker 5: This career is something that I'm very very grateful for
Speaker 5: and I've had a lovely time and if it all
Speaker 5: ends tomorrow then it is what it is. But my
Speaker 5: identity is not attached to it. This is the core
Speaker 5: thing of my life is caring about justice and what
Speaker 5: is fair and what is logical. When something doesn't make
Speaker 5: sense and something is clearly not working, then I have to,
Speaker 5: like a rat go after it me too happened and
Speaker 5: no one had ever asked me about anything other than
Speaker 5: my hair or my lipstick, and so suddenly someone was like,
Speaker 5: what do you think of the giant social infrastructures of
Speaker 5: the world, And then obviously mania came out.
Speaker 1: But sometimes, you know.
Speaker 5: It's sometimes we overshare, don't we when we're not used
Speaker 5: to sharing. Sometimes we don't know where the line is.
Speaker 5: All right, and I've learned now, But unfortunately too many
Speaker 5: people were listening at first. I did not expect so
Speaker 5: many people to listen so early on into me speaking
Speaker 5: my mind.
Speaker 4: Maybe you were more famous than you understood at the time,
Speaker 4: but I agree. I liked what you said totally.
Speaker 5: But you know, I wasn't standing with a million people
Speaker 5: in front of me, or its two million or three million,
Speaker 5: however many people I think four million people almost following me.
Speaker 5: If I was standing in front of a crowd that size,
Speaker 5: if I were standing in front of ten people, I
Speaker 5: would have been more careful. But if you're in your
Speaker 5: bed and you're slightly stoned, or you have PMS, or
Speaker 5: you're just having a frustrating day on your own, it
Speaker 5: just doesn't feel like anything that's why we're such bastards
Speaker 5: to each other on the internet, because we're not able
Speaker 5: to see the person receive the information, and so it's
Speaker 5: very easy to speak without being careful, to dehumanize, to
Speaker 5: not be empathetic. It escalates clumsiness, I think, and I
Speaker 5: think I was guilty of that, and I've now started
Speaker 5: to imagine three point eight million people standing in front
Speaker 5: of me every time I post or tweet.
Speaker 2: Well, I actually think you've been on the receiving end
Speaker 2: of a lot of the things that you just mentioned.
Speaker 2: I think that people are really unfair to you on
Speaker 2: social media. I think people dehumanize you on social media.
Speaker 2: I think people reduce you to one dimension on social
Speaker 2: media and they fail to see your dimensionality in all
Speaker 2: of your multitudes. What is your relationship like with social
Speaker 2: media now? Are you able to disentangle your identity from
Speaker 2: it in the same way that you have with fame?
Speaker 5: I feel like two things can be true at the
Speaker 5: same time, right, First of all, I think it's because
Speaker 5: people see only one dimension for themselves that they project
Speaker 5: any one dimension onto other people. Right, If they see
Speaker 5: a ceiling for themselves, they do not trust or like
Speaker 5: seeing someone else smash through ceilings.
Speaker 1: They don't know what to do with it.
Speaker 5: And if we aren't familiar with something, or if we
Speaker 5: fear something, it breeds hatred of that thing.
Speaker 1: We see that all the time.
Speaker 5: All the hatred that we see of minorities or anyone
Speaker 5: who's different always comes inherently from a fear of the unknown.
Speaker 1: And there aren't a lot of public figures like me.
Speaker 5: But I I think people were just like, she's doing
Speaker 5: this for attention, She's doing this to get ahead, she's
Speaker 5: doing this for brand deals.
Speaker 2: Lol.
Speaker 5: Do you know how many brand deals I've lost because
Speaker 5: I've been so vocal. It's not about that, But I
Speaker 5: think people don't trust celebrities. I think people inherently don't
Speaker 5: trust women. So that's one aspect of it, right. They
Speaker 5: don't know what to do with me, and they can't
Speaker 5: imagine that I would actually give a shit. But also
Speaker 5: I am quite annoying, so that's also fair. It doesn't
Speaker 5: mean I deserve the amount of shit I get. It
Speaker 5: doesn't mean I deserve to have lies smeared about me.
Speaker 5: But we are in a time where you can no
Speaker 5: longer literally burn me at the stake. You can't take
Speaker 5: me out and shoot me, so you can kill my reputation,
Speaker 5: you can kill my credibility, and you can kill my
Speaker 5: will to persevere. And so that's what I think happens
Speaker 5: on the internet. I take some accountability. I have been
Speaker 5: a bit rude at times, but I also think we
Speaker 5: have a huge problem with women, and a lot of
Speaker 5: the shit I get comes from other women. And the
Speaker 5: nastiest things that have been said too and about me
Speaker 5: have been from other women. And the worst lies spread
Speaker 5: about me have been from women who claim to be
Speaker 5: liberal feminists.
Speaker 3: So what do we do about that?
Speaker 2: Because that's obviously it is a big issue, and it's
Speaker 2: something that we've even talked about on this show.
Speaker 3: What do you think is the solution there?
Speaker 5: I think the beginning of the solution has always been
Speaker 5: has already started, in that we've started to realize that
Speaker 5: we have been ultimately turned against each other. We have
Speaker 5: a scarcity mindset. We do feel threatened by each other,
Speaker 5: and that you know in a way that men don't.
Speaker 5: Men feel competitive with each other, but not as threatened
Speaker 5: by one another because they don't have a scarcity of
Speaker 5: mindset of that there's only a finite amount of space
Speaker 5: for all of us. And so I think the conversations
Speaker 5: are starting and we are starting to understand that there
Speaker 5: is so much benefit and beauty to women collaborating with
Speaker 5: one another. And I think that's why I'm putting on
Speaker 5: these community events, and it's kind of becoming one of
Speaker 5: the biggest and most important parts of my career is
Speaker 5: just putting on these events of bringing women together and
Speaker 5: realizing we're all in the same fucking boat.
Speaker 1: Let's give each other a fucking break.
Speaker 4: I think the other part of this walk that you
Speaker 4: are creating it comes out of the heart of eyeweight,
Speaker 4: which is something that has personally really impacted me. I'll
Speaker 4: never forget when it came out. I saw Emmy Rossum
Speaker 4: do hers? Was that what the first one?
Speaker 1: She was the first celebrity to do hers.
Speaker 5: There were many thousands of women who did it first,
Speaker 5: but Emmy was the first person who made it cool
Speaker 5: for celebrities to do it, and then other people started
Speaker 5: to join in.
Speaker 4: So I saw her, and for anybody who doesn't know,
Speaker 4: people put little blurbs about all of the things that
Speaker 4: they were aside from their weight, they were bold, they
Speaker 4: were smart, they were strong, they were a mother, etc.
Speaker 4: And it's now really turned into more than a platform.
Speaker 4: I think it's turned into a community of women who
Speaker 4: believe the same things that you do. And it came
Speaker 4: after a meme of people guessing the Kardashian's weight and
Speaker 4: then shaming them for it. And I've always wondered why
Speaker 4: that photo was the final straw for you.
Speaker 5: I think it was just that they are a family
Speaker 5: of business women. And you would never see a family
Speaker 5: of business men, or any men in almost any area
Speaker 5: other than the UFC with their weights written across their body.
Speaker 5: You would see their net worth, you would see metrics
Speaker 5: of what they have achieved, how many awards they've won.
Speaker 5: You would never We have no idea what men weigh,
Speaker 5: and we don't care, but we are obsessed with the
Speaker 5: number on that scale. And I just I can't believe that,
Speaker 5: twenty years after I first developed an eating disorder from
Speaker 5: having been put on a scale by an English teacher
Speaker 5: in front of my class, wow, because she was substituting
Speaker 5: for the math teacher, and she thought it would be
Speaker 5: an amazing idea to weigh a bunch of teenage girls
Speaker 5: in front of each other to teach us how to
Speaker 5: collate data for a pie chart. And I think triggered
Speaker 5: about thirty eating disorders that night. But twenty years after
Speaker 5: I was taught explicitly that there was value attached to
Speaker 5: how low the number on the scale is, we're still
Speaker 5: getting that information so explicitly online and I didn't even
Speaker 5: have to search for it. At least in the nineties,
Speaker 5: I'd go and buy a magazine that would make my
Speaker 5: eating disorder worse.
Speaker 1: Now it finds me.
Speaker 4: We're taking a quick break, but we'll be right back
Speaker 4: with Jamilah Jamil, And we're back with Jamila jamil. You know,
Speaker 4: I saw you interview Gloria Steinem in downtown LA and
Speaker 4: it was one of my favorite nights of the year,
Speaker 4: and I wrote.
Speaker 1: Down my favorite nights of my life.
Speaker 4: I remember you saying that, and I wrote down some
Speaker 4: of your quotes from that night. But you wrote, I
Speaker 4: don't give a fuck about being liked, and you meant it.
Speaker 4: People say that and don't mean it. I could feel
Speaker 4: that you meant it. Was there a watershed moment or
Speaker 4: point where you just shed likability.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I don't remember a time where I ever thought it
Speaker 5: was important to be liked by anyone that I didn't like.
Speaker 5: I want to be liked by the people I like,
Speaker 5: because then I want to spend time with them and
Speaker 5: I want them to be my friends.
Speaker 3: Please.
Speaker 5: But if I don't like someone, it feels ridiculous for me.
Speaker 5: It just feels absurd to you my energy in a
Speaker 5: way that men just again don't really have to use.
Speaker 5: I was raised with a big brother, so I just
Speaker 5: watched what he did, and no one was ever telling
Speaker 5: him to be likable. Everyone saw his strength, his aggression,
Speaker 5: sometimes even as assertive, and so you know, I never
Speaker 5: grew up feeling an affinity with what I was told
Speaker 5: quote unquote femininity is. It doesn't mean that I don't
Speaker 5: think it was in a kind of dysphoric way. It
Speaker 5: was in a sensible way of like well on Earth,
Speaker 5: when I have a different set of rules, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 5: But it means that I've got a lot of free
Speaker 5: space in my head because I'm not tap dancing for
Speaker 5: other people, I'm able to just be myself. And also,
Speaker 5: I really don't want to be liked or disliked for
Speaker 5: who I'm not. I'd rather be liked and disliked for
Speaker 5: who I am, and that just feels more sensible to me.
Speaker 1: It does for me too lake. That does that make
Speaker 1: me sound really cold? No?
Speaker 4: I think you just have a new boat there for us.
Speaker 4: I love her. You know, it seems to me that
Speaker 4: the Jamila that we see in front of the camera
Speaker 4: is the same Jamila behind the camera. Is there something
Speaker 4: that we wouldn't see about you at first glance that's
Speaker 4: so central to who you are?
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm much nicer in person. Still come.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm much nicer in person than I am publicly
Speaker 5: because it's brutal to be a woman in a public space,
Speaker 5: and so I have to have some sort of thorns
Speaker 5: all over me, like a porcupine. And so when I
Speaker 5: hear that people are intimidated barmy, I love it because
Speaker 5: then they won't find out how much of a pussy
Speaker 5: I am, and they'll just be too afraid to approach me.
Speaker 5: It's a bit like my dog, Barreled. I have a
Speaker 5: small dog, and he barks and behaves like an aggressive
Speaker 5: maniac if he sees a really big dog, because he's
Speaker 5: hoping he can scare that dog away so that they
Speaker 5: don't actually end up in an altercation, because if they do,
Speaker 5: he will be that dog's dinner. And so I think
Speaker 5: I'm a very gentle person. But it would be a
Speaker 5: privilege to be allowed to be totally soft and vulnerable publicly,
Speaker 5: because it's just like being dragged across a gutter by
Speaker 5: your pubic hair, being a woman with an opinion in
Speaker 5: a public eye. So that's the truth. We've had so
Speaker 5: many great analogies for a womanhood on the show today.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry we'd have to right down visceral.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that last one might be my favorite, Jamila, we
Speaker 2: got to let you go. But before we do, we've
Speaker 2: talked about your activism. We've talked about your passion for
Speaker 2: public safety and women feeling safe in public. We've talked
Speaker 2: about your advocacy around diet culture.
Speaker 3: What is your next era?
Speaker 1: I think this is my next era.
Speaker 5: I think my new hyper focus is getting the world
Speaker 5: everyone exercising all the time, whenever they can, walking, moving together,
Speaker 5: not feeling self conscious while they do it. I would
Speaker 5: like to change the future of all marketing of all exercise,
Speaker 5: and I would like to make it an inclusive space
Speaker 5: because it is one of the most exclusionary spaces. And
Speaker 5: the idea of exclusive is so so bonkers to me
Speaker 5: because it means you're leaving people out deliberately deliberately, which
Speaker 5: is just bad maths. That is bad business. Why would
Speaker 5: you ever shut anyone out? And so I hope that
Speaker 5: I can be part of the downfall of the exclusive
Speaker 5: being a good thing. I hope I can be a
Speaker 5: part of the downfall of the current state of exercise culture.
Speaker 5: And I hope I can be part of the uprising
Speaker 5: of people learning about their neurochemicals and the importance of
Speaker 5: protecting this extraordinary computer in our brains. The fact that
Speaker 5: we know more about our iPhones or how to make
Speaker 5: a TikTok real then we know about what's actually happening
Speaker 5: in our brains at any one point is terrifying to me.
Speaker 5: And exercise is a pivotal start when it comes to that.
Speaker 5: So that's my you know, that's my new obsession and
Speaker 5: then I'll hopefully do a bit of TV and acting
Speaker 5: until then. But I'm writing currently about some of these subjects,
Speaker 5: and I hope to do, you know, documentaries and work
Speaker 5: on this. And I think that if we could give
Speaker 5: people the tools to understand themselves, not just emotionally but
Speaker 5: literally physically and chemically, we could change the entire world.
Speaker 5: So that's the plan, and I'm also gonna, you know,
Speaker 5: eat lots of cake.
Speaker 1: And cuddle with my dogs and boyfriend. We love their plan.
Speaker 4: Jamila, I don't say this lately, but I've learned a
Speaker 4: lot from you. I really appreciate your advocacy. That's extremely
Speaker 4: kind of you, and I appreciate that. And I'm still learning,
Speaker 4: and I've been saying that from the beginning. You know,
Speaker 4: I'm a feminist in progress. I'm in everything in progress.
Speaker 4: So never take anything I say as gospel. But I'm
Speaker 4: happy to inspire you to think for yourself and to
Speaker 4: take ownership of your own decisions. And that's all I've
Speaker 4: ever wanted. Jamila, thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4: This was a really heartfelt conversation.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: Jamila Jamil is an actor, activist, and the founder of Iway,
Speaker 2: a platform that advocates for radical inclusivity. You can listen
Speaker 2: to our podcast Iway wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 4: That's it for today's show, and on Monday, author and
Speaker 4: longtime podcaster Norah mcinnernie joins us to talk all the
Speaker 4: things from ephemeral tattoos to dealing with grief and so
Speaker 4: much more. The bright Side is a production of Hello
Speaker 4: Sunshine and iHeart Podcasts, and is executive produced by Reese Witherspoon.
Speaker 2: Production by Arcana Audio. Courtney Gilbert is our associate producer.
Speaker 2: Our producers are Steph Brown, Jessica Wank and a Olivia Briley.
Speaker 3: Our engineer is PJ.
Speaker 2: Shahamat, and our senior producers are Izzy Kinkania and Janis Yamoka.
Speaker 4: Arcnna's executive producers are Francis Harlowe and Abby Ruzika.
Speaker 1: Arcana's head of production is Matt Schultz.
Speaker 2: Natalie Tulluck and Maureen Polo are the executive producers for
Speaker 2: Hello Sunshine.
Speaker 4: Julia Weaver is the supervising producer, and Ali Perry is
Speaker 4: the executive producer for iHeart Podcasts. Tim Palazzola is our showrunner.
Speaker 4: This week's episodes were recorded by Graham Gibson, Jessica Crinchitch
Speaker 4: Bahied Fraser.
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Anna Stumpf and Hamilton lighthauser.
Speaker 4: Special thanks to Connell Byrne and Will Pearson.
Speaker 3: I'm Simone Boyce.
Speaker 2: You can find me at Simone Boyce on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 4: And I'm Danielle Robey on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 1: That's r b A.
Speaker 3: Y see you Monday Fam. Keep looking on the bright side.