WEBVTT - TechStuff Tidbits: Patents 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.800 Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio. 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:14.640 Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.800 Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio. 0:00:17.880 --> 0:00:20.840 And how the tech are you? It's time for a 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:24.360 text of tidbit, those shows that at least in my mind, 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:26.600 are going to be a little shorter and really focused 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:30.440 on a specific topic related to tech. And earlier this 0:00:30.480 --> 0:00:34.720 week I talked a little bit about patents and their purpose. Namely, 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:38.600 a patent is a government backed grant that covers an invention, 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.600 and it gives the inventor or you know, whomever's name 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:46.160 happens to be on the patent application, the exclusive right 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:50.640 to exploit that invention. So the inventor can produce the 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:53.199 invention themselves if they have the means to do so. 0:00:53.320 --> 0:00:56.800 They could build it, manufacture it, you know, sell it 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:59.440 to people. They would have exclusive rights to do that, 0:00:59.880 --> 0:01:03.680 or they could license the design to others. So let's 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:05.959 say you're an inventor, but you don't happen to have, 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.840 you know, a manufacturing facility at your disposal. You can 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:13.240 make a deal with a company that will manufacture your design. 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.039 They'll pay you a license fee and you know, maybe 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:18.360 there will be some other's parts of the agreement there 0:01:18.560 --> 0:01:20.880 and then in return they'll have the right to produce 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:24.520 whatever is based off your invention, or you could even 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:28.200 you know, just sit on your invention and wait more 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:31.800 on that in a little bit. But that exclusivity is 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:36.160 key here. Should you, as patent holder, discover that someone 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:40.360 else is making use of your patented technology without your consent, 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.200 you know you haven't signed a licensing deal or given permission, 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:47.240 well you would have the right to pursue legal action 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:51.280 against that other person or a company or entity. The 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:54.640 flip side of this is that patents tend to be 0:01:54.800 --> 0:02:00.240 public information, like publicly accessible, so if you want to, 0:02:00.800 --> 0:02:04.560 you can browse through patent applications and read up on 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.600 various inventions covering pretty much everything you can think of. 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:12.880 It's all laid out there. Uh, it's it's a description 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.720 of the invention and supposed to describe not just how 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:19.800 the invention works, but you know what it's supposed to 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.240 do and what effect it's supposed to have, often in 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.880 language that is a little inscrutable. I think perhaps as 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.560 part of a strategy to protect the inventions somewhat, and 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:34.680 it can be a little vague, like you don't typically 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.760 see patents that go into such detail that just by 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.600 reading the patent you could easily duplicate whatever was invented. 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.560 And also, patent protection has a time limit to it. 0:02:46.600 --> 0:02:49.920 They expire. Here in the United States, a patent now 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:54.600 lasts twenty years from the earliest filing date of the patent. 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:58.320 That's filing date, not the date upon which the patent 0:02:58.520 --> 0:03:01.960 was granted. Sometimes it can take years before a patent 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:07.200 goes from being filed to being granted, so the expiration 0:03:07.240 --> 0:03:10.920 will go back to whenever the inventor first filed for 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:13.880 the patent in the first place. So after twenty years 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:17.320 of filing, the patent protection on the invention expires, and 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:21.600 then anyone can make free use of that invented technology 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:25.000 or process in whatever way they like. They don't have 0:03:25.040 --> 0:03:27.800 to pay licensing vs. They don't have to fear reprisal 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.880 from the patent holder because now it's it's public domain. 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:35.480 Of course, you know, in two decades after the filing, 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:37.760 there's a pretty good chance that the state of the 0:03:37.920 --> 0:03:40.600 art in whatever we happen to be talking about has 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:44.080 advanced to a point that the old patented invention is 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:49.080 less applicable, might even be obsolete depending upon the technology 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.280 in question. But you know, not all tech involved superfast 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:56.440 computers or pupi lasers. It could be something so fundamental 0:03:56.480 --> 0:04:00.000 and simple that all technology following it is built up 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.480 upon it and incorporates it in some way. It might 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:06.240 not be like an end product. It might just be 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:13.520 a part of larger things. Now, let's contrast that, you know, 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.760 the whole patent idea with just keeping your invention a 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.880 secret from others. You keep it secret, keep it safe, 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.560 with the hope that you can perpetually maintain control over 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:28.120 your invention and have exclusive use of it because no 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:30.880 one knows how it works. You never share that information, 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.760 you never filed for a patent. However, if someone else 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:38.279 figures out how you're doing what you're doing, you know 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:42.159 they're able to reverse engineer your invention in some way, 0:04:42.279 --> 0:04:44.880 then you don't have that patent protection to fall back on, 0:04:45.120 --> 0:04:48.440 and you are, in technical terms, up the creek as 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:51.520 far as that exclusivity goes. I mean, obviously there are 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:56.280 different circumstances, like if you can prove someone was uh 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:01.159 using industrial espionage to steal trade secret, it's that's a 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.120 big no note. But if someone independently figures out how 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.920 you're doing stuff and you never bothered to patent your inventions, 0:05:08.400 --> 0:05:12.240 then you really you're you're lacking a major component of 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:17.200 protection on your ideas. Now, patents get way more complicated 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.240 than what I just describe. That's a very high level 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:25.560 overview of what patents are and what they're for. Different 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:29.200 nations have their own rules for patents, including when patents 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:35.160 expire and what can and cannot be patented. Like typically, 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.000 patent offices require a submission to be something that you 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:42.479 can produce or that can be used. Uh, there are 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:46.400 some really interesting cases with patents that seem to go 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:48.880 outside of this. I mean, there are software patents, and 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:51.880 that becomes a whole thing because it starts to enter 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:54.680 into an argument of when do you get to a 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.440 point where you're talking just about math, Because you can't 0:05:57.480 --> 0:06:03.280 patent math, right, you can't generally patent anything natural. Now, 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:07.080 if you're able to engineer something out of natural products 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:10.960 and you create something new, you can potentially patent that. 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.880 In some places, genetically modified organisms are something that you 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.680 can patent. But but if we're looking at it from 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:23.880 big picture, whatever you're patenting it should be new. That 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:27.599 means you can't submit something that already exists out there. 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.320 If I went out and tried to patent uh, you know, 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.680 a a car jack, just a regular car jack, that 0:06:34.839 --> 0:06:38.360 the basic kind that you can find anywhere, well, that 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:40.839 would just fall flat in its face. That invention has 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:45.000 been around for ages. I can't patent that. Also, whatever 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.840 you patent should be inventive. It shouldn't just be a 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:52.479 modification of existing technology. So you know, you couldn't go 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:55.480 out with an AMP and patent it because this one 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:59.600 goes to eleven. That doesn't mean anything. So and it 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:02.560 also can't just be an idea. You can't patent just 0:07:02.720 --> 0:07:07.240 an idea. And theoretically it should be something that actually works, 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:10.760 although proof that it works is not always required or 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:15.400 even frequently required. However, in the United States, an examiner 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:19.040 as in someone who is examining the patent application and 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:22.560 determining whether or not the US government should grant a 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:27.440 patent to the applicant. An examiner can contact that applicant 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:31.760 if there is a question about operability. The applicant can 0:07:31.800 --> 0:07:34.800 then demonstrate the operability of their invention in any so 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.520 way they choose to prove that in fact, it works. However, 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:42.440 there is one big exception to this. If someone should 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:46.280 submit a patent for a perpetual motion machine, that is, 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:49.600 a machine that, once you set it into motion, will 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:52.520 continue to be in motion, in defiance of the laws 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:56.040 of the universe, well, then the applicant has to produce 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.760 a working model of the device before the patent office 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:02.080 will even go any further. There are no exceptions to 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:06.040 that rule. And that's because for a while there was 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:09.120 a kind of this craze where people were convinced that 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:11.840 they had come up with a perpetual motion machine or 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:15.160 a free energy machine, a machine that, once you put 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.280 in the energy to start it going, produces more energy 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:21.679 than it consumes. That's also in defiance of the laws 0:08:21.720 --> 0:08:25.400 of the universe as we understand them. And Uh, if 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:28.800 you ever see claims that say that, you should certainly 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:34.720 be skeptical. Uh. I've talked about those extensively on this 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:39.480 show before. And I'm sure there's no shortage of patents 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:42.240 that have gone through the process for inventions that actually 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:45.520 don't work, or maybe they quote unquote work, as in, 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.160 they operate, but they don't do what is intended. I'm 0:08:49.320 --> 0:08:53.960 reminded of numerous kinds of of like exercise equipment for example, 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.680 where you could argue, well, it works in the sense 0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.920 that all the parts moved together, and like the motor 0:09:01.080 --> 0:09:03.839 makes things move or whatever, but it might not work 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:07.240 in the sense that it actually helps you get into shape. Right, 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.480 So there are different different points of view on what 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.760 work means here. Uh. It would also be far too 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:16.720 labor intensive to demand each and every patent applied for 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:19.959 has to pass some sort of operability test. When we 0:09:20.000 --> 0:09:22.080 start talking about the numbers of patents, you'll see it's 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:26.920 just it would be unreasonable to expect any government agency 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:28.960 to go through and make that sort of demand. But 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:32.920 generally speaking, if you're applying for a patent, that patent 0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.960 should be for some sort of invention that actually works. 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:39.960 I mentioned that the invention shouldn't just be a modification 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:43.000 of existing technology. That is true, it shouldn't just be 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:47.720 a minor modification. However, it can be a significant evolution 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:51.920 of technology, and that can be patentable. You'll often see 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:56.080 patents that reference earlier patents, and in some cases it's 0:09:56.120 --> 0:09:59.839 to explain how the new invention is a significant improvement 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:03.040 over an older one, and in other cases it's just 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:08.040 to differentiate the two, to say, Okay, I'm filing this patent. 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.600 I'm aware of this earlier patent that's for something similar. However, 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:16.960 my invention is different enough to justify its own patent. 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:20.040 At least that's the argument you're making. Patents in the 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:23.920 United States date back to the late eighteenth century, but 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:28.520 the concept is much much older. According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, 0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:32.880 the oldest patent on record dates to fourteen twenty one. 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:38.400 The applicant was an engineer named Filippo Bruno Leski, and 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:42.480 the invention was for a barge that included a hoist 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:47.200 mechanism for the purposes of lifting and transporting marble. And 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.160 this was in Florence, Italy during the Renaissance. Marble was 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:56.160 in high demand. So the grant that that Philip got, 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.600 the good Old phil received, gave him a three year 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.640 period of exclusivity in which he would have the exclusive 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:06.720 rights to his invention before other uh folks on in 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.720 Florence would be allowed to copy what he was doing. 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.559 So he had some protection there. He could go after 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:14.800 anyone who was making use of a barge with a 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:17.800 hoist and they didn't. You know go through him first. 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:22.000 And this is actually super important because in the early 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.560 Renaissance folks were more than happy to run with a 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:29.440 good idea, especially if it wasn't their own, and run 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:32.680 away with that idea. So let's say you're a smarty 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:37.080 pants kind of person, right, you are an inventive engineering type, 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:40.000 and you come up with an ingenious way to simplify 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:43.720 something that is otherwise a difficult task, and your invention 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:47.000 is going to make things much much easier and streamlined 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:51.160 and be a huge benefit. However, you also happen to 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.320 know that if you come forward with your idea and 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.960 you don't have any like significant wealth of your own, 0:11:57.480 --> 0:12:00.679 people who have more resources than you are just gonna 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:04.280 take your idea. They're just gonna say, like, that's brilliant, 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:07.240 I'm using it, and then you're left out in the cold. 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.080 That kind of removes your incentive to do anything with 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.600 your idea. Right If you're discouraged, if you think, well, yeah, 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:15.720 I know how to do this better than anyone else, 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:17.719 but I'm not in a position to do it and 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:22.200 profit from it, well, then your idea may never materialize 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.560 in the real world. You may just let it die. 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:29.000 But if you are granted at least temporary exclusive rights 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:32.520 to your idea, then you can profit from your invention, 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.360 and that in turn encourages other inventive types to seek 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.480 out the same sort of protection so that they can 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.720 actually benefit from their good ideas and not just see 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.559 them stolen like crazy. In fact, this is the same 0:12:44.600 --> 0:12:47.800 reason folks came up with the idea of copyright and trademarks. 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.679 It's kind of like making sure the right person gets 0:12:50.679 --> 0:12:53.800 the credit, whether the credit is acknowledgement or you know, 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:58.440 actual credits as in cold hard cash. We've got more 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:01.520 to say about patents, but before we do that, let's 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:11.480 take a quick break. The first patent in the United 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.400 States was for a process for making potash a component 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:18.280 and fertilizer. George Washington himself signed the patent, which went 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:22.520 to Samuel Hopkins. In eli Whitney received a patent for 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:24.600 his invention of the cotton gin, which is a pretty 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:27.600 famous example, and by eighteen o two the United States 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:31.200 needed a dedicated superintendent to oversee the patent office. In 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:34.520 eighteen twenty one, Thomas Jennings received the first patent issued 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:37.560 to an African American for his invention of dry scouring 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:41.559 kind of a predecessor to dry cleaning. Flash forward a 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:44.680 couple of centuries, and now we're well past ten million 0:13:44.679 --> 0:13:47.360 patents issued in the United States. In fact, we hit 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:50.120 the ten million milestone in two thousand and eighteen, and 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:54.000 in one we had eleven million patents. That just goes 0:13:54.040 --> 0:13:56.679 to show that folks are really inventive. Like the the 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:01.240 pace of invention increases, and a lot of course happened 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.679 in the middle there. I mean, you're talking about more 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.680 than two hundred years of history. Obviously tons of stuff happen. 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:11.920 But the patent law has been revised numerous times throughout 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:13.719 the history of the United States. But let's go more 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.199 high level. I mentioned earlier that one of the things 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:18.120 you can do with patents is just sit on them, 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.800 and you can also buy and sell them, like they 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.640 can be property, like real estate or things like that. 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.440 So you might be an inventor and the way you 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:28.400 make your money as you invent something and then you 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.960 sell your invention to someone else and that's the end 0:14:31.000 --> 0:14:33.800 of that. So there are companies that essentially just deal 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.080 in the business of purchasing patents and then kind of 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.440 lying in wait like a predator, and the derogatory name 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.800 for these sorts of companies as a patent troll. Typically, 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.880 a patentrol company is one that doesn't make anything on 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.120 its own. It doesn't produce stuff, it doesn't sell anything, 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:52.400 but it holds patents to various technologies, and if someone 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.160 tries to make a product or service that overlaps with 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.320 one or more of the patents, then the troll pounces 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:01.600 and usually there's some legal timidation that goes on. Essentially 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.440 the troll saying, hey, you can't make this product that's 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.080 key to your business because we hold the patent on 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.320 it and we didn't give you permission, so we're gonna 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:11.480 sue you. And the goal is just to get as 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.280 big a settlement out of the target as you possibly can, 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:18.400 and that's how the patentrol makes money. Meanwhile, if no 0:15:18.400 --> 0:15:21.840 one actually tried to make something that overlapped with the 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:25.000 patentrols patents, well then nothing related to those patents ever 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.240 really comes into being, because again, the patentrol isn't going 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.240 to do anything about it. So you have these ideas 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:34.680 that are effectively locked away, and it's antithetical to the 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:38.240 spirit of the patent system in the first place. Patentrols 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.240 are not always successful in their efforts. There's the famous 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:45.440 example of Personal Audio LLC, which claimed a patent it owned, 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:50.400 specifically Patent number eight million, five hundred four, which was 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:54.640 called a System for Disseminating media content covered the technology 0:15:54.640 --> 0:15:58.600 of podcasting, and this company then began suing podcast producers, 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.760 including Adam Corolla, uh and that turned into a massive 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.440 legal battle, and ultimately Personal Audio LLC dropped the case. 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.760 And Outsider suspected that the company realized that it was 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.280 facing an uphill legal battle and that it could potentially 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.880 lose that patent, like the patents teeth could be removed, 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:18.440 and that the court was likely to find that the 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:22.360 patent was overbroad and vague. But Personal Audio LLC said 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:24.880 the reason they dropped the case was that podcasters weren't 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.720 generating a significant amount of revenue from infringing their patents, 0:16:28.800 --> 0:16:31.440 which I mean, I guess that just means the company said, 0:16:31.480 --> 0:16:34.200 we don't expect to actually make any money off this lawsuit, 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:37.240 and that's all that really matters, so we're done. But 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:41.360 Corolla actually countersued and sought the Patent Office to invalidate 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:45.320 the patent in question. Personal Audio LLC ultimately settled with 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:48.240 Corolla out of court for an undisclosed amount, but the 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.640 Electronic Frontier Foundation or e f F, filed a challenge 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.400 to that patent, and the U S Patent Office ultimately 0:16:55.480 --> 0:17:00.680 revoked five provisions within the patent, essentially neutering it. And 0:17:00.880 --> 0:17:04.400 Patent Audio LLC appealed all the way to the Supreme Court, 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:07.280 but the Supreme Court rejected the petition for review and 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:11.760 the case ended with the podcasting patent effectively neutralized. Part 0:17:11.800 --> 0:17:14.159 of the arguments in that case was that the patent 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.399 wasn't just overly broad, it was describing something that had 0:17:17.440 --> 0:17:20.800 already existed before the patent was granted. And that's one 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:23.119 of the big things about patents. If someone can prove 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.600 that person did not actually invent something, but that the 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:30.919 supposed invention already existed, well, that's called prior art. It 0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.080 means the invention is already known and that the patent 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.080 office shouldn't issue a patent in that case. We've seen 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.080 that pop up in a defense time and again, um 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:44.280 sometimes in an attack as well, and sometimes pop culture 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:46.959 serves as an example of prior art, such as the 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.960 tablet like computers that are seen in two thousand one 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:53.440 A Space Odyssey, the Stanley Kubrick film of the Arthur C. 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.680 Clark story that served as an example of the tablet 0:17:56.720 --> 0:18:00.000 form factor in a patent dispute that was between Sam 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:03.160 Sung and Apple, and companies often use patents as both 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:05.560 kind of a shield and a sword at the same time. 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:08.480 You'll frequently hear stories of companies suing one another for 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.679 patent infringement, and it's not unusual to hear company A 0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.359 sues Company B for infringing on like ten patents, and 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.959 then company B SU's Company A for infringing on twelve 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.159 other patents and so on. That happened a lot between 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:24.840 Apple and Samsung, as well as Apple and tons of 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:28.040 other companies. And sometimes these are maneuvers that play apart 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:31.000 in tough negotiations between companies as they try to land 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:35.000 a favorable licensing deal. That's what we've seen recently between 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:39.120 Apple and Ericsson. Patent licenses are key to business these days. 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:41.520 It's pretty much impossible to do business in the tech 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.359 sector without relying on someone else's patented technology in some way, 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.960 so typically businesses secure licenses with those patent holders to 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:52.520 avoid any litigious entanglements down the line, and there's usually 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.400 a lot of criss crossing agreements between these large companies, 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:59.320 with them becoming dependent upon one another, though things can 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.480 get ugly when license agreements come too close to expiring, 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.600 which we've seen recently. There are tons of other interesting 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:09.240 stories about patents, including some of history's greatest feuds. Maybe 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.720 I'll cover those in a future text stuff tidbit. Uh. 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.560 The one that leaps to mind is between Nikola, Tesla 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.840 and Marconi, but I'll have to wait and hold off 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:20.760 on that. Maybe I'll do a text stuff tidbit to 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:24.280 really lay out that story. It's a pretty infuriating one, 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.520 but a really interesting one as well. And uh, yeah, 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.080 that's our tech stuff tidbits about patents. You get a 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:34.080 little bit of information about that, and again I can 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.840 probably do another follow up to talk about it more. 0:19:36.880 --> 0:19:38.800 But if you have suggestions for topics I should cover 0:19:38.840 --> 0:19:41.520 on tech stuff, reach out to me on Twitter. The 0:19:41.560 --> 0:19:44.560 handle for the show is text Stuff h s W 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:53.640 and I'll talk to you again, really sick. Text Stuff 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:56.880 is an I Heart Radio production. For more podcasts from 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.919 my Heart Radio, visit the i Heart Radio app Apple 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.760 Podcasts wherever you listen to your favorite shows,