WEBVTT - Positively Gam: Positively Gam: Retirement Reset 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:05.800 I just reflect back on our mother and and we 0:00:06.040 --> 0:00:09.440 first of all, we weren't allowed not to do anything. 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.160 We don't know what that is. If you lived in 0:00:12.200 --> 0:00:15.000 our house, you either work or go to school. You 0:00:15.120 --> 0:00:17.400 got up in the morning and you put your clothes on, 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:20.640 even if you were sick. Yeah, you have to be really, 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:24.680 really deathly sick, because even if you didn't feel well, 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:28.200 she said, you will feel better once you get up 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.560 and put your clothes on. You'll just feel better about yourself. 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:40.840 What's up, everybody? I'm Gammy and this is positively gam 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.879 Every week I have raw, in depth conversation with inspirational 0:00:44.920 --> 0:00:51.600 people pushing for change on everything from relationships, aging, politics, wellness, 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:54.920 to the current issues facing the black communities. But in 0:00:54.960 --> 0:01:00.600 this episode, we're going to be discussing retirement. This week's 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:04.840 guests are some ladies who have retired and then unretired 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:09.320 into a new field. My older sister Karen, Karen started 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.600 her work in the nonprofit sector and now in her 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.920 retirement she's a realtor. And my friend Sibyl, who worked 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.560 with the federal government and now works for a nonprofit. 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:23.880 And then Wendy, who is also my dear friend, who 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:26.959 was a nurse like me. We actually worked together and 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:33.600 now she's a therapist. Welcome ladies to positively gam for 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:37.080 having me. How are you guys doing. Wendy, how are 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:41.720 you doing? I'm doing great. Adrian and Sivil, welcome back. 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:46.400 This is your second time on the show. Second time. Yeah. 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:50.480 And Karen, what about you? How are you doing? I'm 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:57.880 hanging in there. Are you thinking about changing your name? No? Uh, 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:03.400 I am not. I am not. My hu is different 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:10.240 from the Karens. They are referring to facts one one percent. 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:24.240 I guess we'll just jumped right into it, because let'sten. 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.799 Let's start with the definition that we found for retirement, 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.480 which refers to the time in life when one chooses 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:36.639 to permanently leave the workforce behind. And the traditional retirement 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:42.519 age is sixty five. So what did you each envision 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:46.480 for yourself that retirement would be like? In one sentence, 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.320 what did you think your retirement was gonna be like? 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:53.800 I never thought of retirement. I never thought I would 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:58.840 be doing nothing. I always thought I would be doing something. Okay, 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:04.000 what by at you? Sybil? I actually thought about permanently 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:10.680 leaving one specific workplace and then starting another chapter. Okay, 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:14.960 So you're karing you never really thought about a traditional 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:20.760 retirement where you would just be chilling and relaxing, exactly, Wendy. 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.239 I agree with the ladies. I never really thought about 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:29.880 retirement in the sense of retiring because I hadn't hit 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:34.960 you know, sixty yet retired youngest of us, So it 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:37.440 just I never really thought about it. I guess I 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:40.680 thought that I would definitely be doing something, not just 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:46.400 sitting around. That's interesting. I wonder if that is like 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:53.360 something just that is new for our generation or is 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:57.880 it out of necessity? Do we need to work because 0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.600 everything is more expensive than it us back in the day, 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:07.840 or are we healthier and more energetic with what do 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:11.960 you think the cause of that is? I think there's 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:16.200 a shift. There's actually a shift. You know, in the 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.840 old days, you worked the job until you were of 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:26.000 retirement age, and then you stayed home. You didn't do 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:29.840 anything else. And I think that in today's world, some 0:04:29.880 --> 0:04:35.120 people retire and then become re employed somewhere else out 0:04:35.120 --> 0:04:39.839 of necessity. But also we have this thing where the 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:43.279 forty is the new thirty, the fifties and new city, 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:46.120 you know, that kind of thing, So we're not as 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:51.480 sedentary unless we have to be anymore. So it's just 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:56.640 starting another chapter. Because I've been retired for eighteen months 0:04:56.720 --> 0:05:00.800 from the federal government. However, I've been employee at the 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:05.880 nonprofit for just a little over a year, and I 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:11.719 still have a lot to contribute. Yeah. Absolutely, And I 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:16.960 know for me, I was eligible for retirement from my 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:20.440 former position in but of course, like I said, I 0:05:20.480 --> 0:05:23.560 wasn't thinking about retirement. I still had to work. So 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.599 mine was a transition because I was still I was 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.960 doing therapy while I was still doing my nursing job, 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.279 So it was really just a matter of me transitioning 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:41.680 from full time nursing to now full time therapy. So 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:43.800 it might have been a little different. And I think 0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:48.680 in in thinking about retirement later on, of course, I 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:51.400 thought about traveling. I didn't know if I was going 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:53.640 to have grandchildren at the time. I really want to 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:59.520 be active in my grandchildren's lives. Just chilling basically in 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:02.839 terms of that, being able to do what I wanted 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:06.200 to do, whatever that is, and just trying to figure 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:11.680 out making meaning out of those years, but definitely not 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:15.359 just sitting. Yeah, what about you, Karen, You know what 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:18.880 listening to Wendy when she said, having a chance to 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.400 be with your grandchildren and all that. One of the 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:25.719 reasons I picked real estate is because I'm my own boss. 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:28.479 So it's not like I'm doing a nine to five, 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.520 which basically I couldn't do anyway because of my health 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:37.440 because of lupus. But by having this job, I do 0:06:37.520 --> 0:06:40.039 what I as much as I want or as little 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.800 as I want, and that was important I couldn't. It 0:06:43.880 --> 0:06:46.600 wasn't like I could take a full time nine to 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:52.359 five job. I still through this COVID stuff helping my 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:56.200 daughter out by watching her son two days a week. 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.520 So it had to be flexible for me because I 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:04.280 do want to travel. But like I said, I knew 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:08.480 I was gonna always do something. Yeah, and I know 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:15.320 for me, like I've retired from nursing twice, and originally 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:20.040 it was to help Jada with the children and then 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:24.640 actually when they got old, because now like Willow is 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.680 the baby and she just turned twenty, so we have 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:33.160 no more babies. But even once I started, once I 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:36.840 stopped traveling with Willow when she was going on tour, 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.040 I would still travel with her and once they didn't 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:41.560 need me for that. Even when I came when I 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.960 was home. Remember, Karen, we started with the silk Potta jewelry. 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:50.160 We just started selling jewelry because oh yeah, oh yeah, 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.720 I have us about Potter right now, and so does Wendy. 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.280 Wendy has want some of my silk Potty earrings. But 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:01.680 we we really just did that for fun and just 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.040 for to give us something to do and give us 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:09.360 some purpose. It wasn't anything that we really thought was 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:13.680 going to be that financially lucrative for either of it. 0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:16.520 But it was fun. It was something to do. I 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:21.400 just couldn't see myself just sitting home doing nothing. It 0:08:21.560 --> 0:08:25.680 just wasn't in the books for me. So Wendy, tell 0:08:25.720 --> 0:08:29.000 me when you realize that at the time was right 0:08:29.080 --> 0:08:32.680 for you to make this change from nursing, because I 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.800 know for a while you had you were a little frustrated. 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.120 And you know what, even before we get into that, 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.080 I want to talk just a little bit about the 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:46.360 difference between a job and a career, because there's a 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:50.240 famous quote that you hear that says passion is the 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:56.440 difference between a job and a career. But I also 0:08:56.520 --> 0:08:59.679 would say even more than that, it's not always necessarily 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:03.040 pass but a job is just like going to work 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:07.640 and getting a paycheck. But a career is more like 0:09:07.679 --> 0:09:11.560 when you have a job and experience and training that 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:16.120 all along is helping you advance to your in your 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:20.280 career path, your goals all along the way. So a 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:24.720 career to me is more long term, a long term 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:29.120 vision that you have for yourself. Agreed. So to answer 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.800 your question, and I'm glad you framed it that way, Adrian, 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:36.080 because of course I've been a nurse. That's what I 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.120 originally went to school for, and at first I was 0:09:39.280 --> 0:09:43.880 on a career path. So in my nursing career I 0:09:43.920 --> 0:09:48.760 did several things. So I went from clinical nursing and 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:52.119 then when I specialized in labor and delivery, that was wonderful. 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.800 I was learning and I loved it, and then I 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:59.680 went into management. From there, when I started working for Kaiser, 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.560 I went into management, so that I felt was the 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:08.520 path my career path. Then after doing several years, about 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:13.000 seven years of management, I took a different position and 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.360 it really worked. I was tired of management basically, and 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:20.040 I took a different path in my career where it 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.640 was very autonomous and I did like case management, so 0:10:23.720 --> 0:10:26.200 I was just responsible for myself. I was doing this. 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:30.400 It was new, but that morphed into something else that 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:36.160 was an internal issue, and I became the person to 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:40.680 handle that internal issue. So it was an internally created position, 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:43.400 if you will, not something you would look for on 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:47.480 the outside. So as I did that job, it worked 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.920 for my family life. I was able to still had 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.320 basically like the nine to five, and I was able 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:55.679 to do certain things. But then I started to realize 0:10:56.000 --> 0:11:01.880 several years into it that it wasn't fulfilling and I 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:05.440 wasn't really interacting with people. I was sitting in front 0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.440 of a computer all day. I was using my nursing knowledge, 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:12.600 but in a different kind of way. Yeah, and that's 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:19.160 when I really became very i don't know, complacent, and 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:21.840 I said this is not gonna work for me, Like 0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.160 this cannot be it and I need to work. And 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.440 I've been with the company for so long it really 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:32.360 wasn't anywhere for me to go outside of that. I 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.360 was kinda I call it the golden handcuffs. I was 0:11:35.400 --> 0:11:39.520 so bested. My salary was great, I had great benefits, 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:42.079 So you have to think about those kind of things. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.360 There's no point in me leaving now. And it was 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.800 actually very difficult. I was pigeonholed and it was very 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:51.240 difficult for me to move even within the company. So 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:54.400 when I started trying things, what I realized is I 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:59.040 need to have interaction with people. So I even thought 0:11:59.040 --> 0:12:01.719 about going back into clinical nursing, which is unheard of. 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:03.680 Once you come out of clinical and you get to 0:12:03.720 --> 0:12:06.880 do other things for some people. So I'm not going 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.880 back to the hospitals I did. I did just that 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.600 My path were always, I think both of us were 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:19.840 always in women's health, and so our journeys similar. I 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:25.520 very quickly went into mid level management. We worked for 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:30.760 Kaiser together. We were both clinical managers, and I got 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.600 so sick of that. I just did not like it. 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.400 But I had such a hard time going back to 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.840 the bedside people. When I would go for interviews, people 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.040 didn't believe that's what I wanted to do. And I 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:48.160 was like, I absolutely want to be back at the bedside, 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:52.199 and it's to your benefit to hire me because I 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.960 have experienced both. I know how important it is to 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.559 be a manager, but I also want to have the 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.480 not edge to go back to the bedside. It was 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.360 difficult for me to get a job back at the 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.240 bedside people were like, I couldn't believe it. I remember 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.880 because you had said you had always wanted to do 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:12.600 L and D and I was like, go for it. 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:15.320 But trying to get back then because you didn't have 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:20.800 that recent experience, it was almost like the doors were locked. Yes, 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:24.520 I had to retrain, but I'm telling you, it was 0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:29.640 one of the most satisfying jobs that I ever had. 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:34.280 I absolutely loved being at the bedside, and it had 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:39.480 it not been for my personal circumstances and with my grandkids, 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.839 I would have I'd still be nursing today. That's how 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:46.040 much I loved it. I really loved it. What about you, Karen, 0:13:47.080 --> 0:13:52.079 You retired from running the corporation, running um the foundation 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:56.800 and then made a decision to go into real estate, 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:01.280 and you had to retrain, Like it's two different worlds. 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:04.280 You didn't know anything about real estate and the way 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.240 I got into it because I was at a crossroads 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.560 where I really didn't know what I was gonna do. 0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:15.600 And Whitney, my daughter had been laid off, and she said, 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.520 my im going to take a real estate class and 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.000 I was like, oh, because we spent a lot of 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:27.040 time online looking at their houses. Yes, we we just 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:31.520 loved looking at houses. I just we just loved looking 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.440 at because she's at a point where in her family 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:36.800 like that she's going to have to move. So we 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.520 just loved looking the house. And I said, Oh, I'm 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:43.480 gonna do it too. Nobody told me it was that hard. 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:47.440 It's very hard. Let me tell you that real estate 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:52.120 thing is no joke. And I'm blessed because I have 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.440 a broker. My mentor is my broker, and if it 0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.520 weren't for her, I probably wouldn't have continued. But she 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:05.000 has and really supportive. But it allows me to still 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:09.120 have contact with people because I'm like you when the 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.800 I I need to have contact with people. Having worked 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:16.840 in the community, basically I was a community organized I 0:15:16.960 --> 0:15:20.080 moved up into the roles that I had, but that 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:24.960 was basically what I My career was was community organizing, 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:34.680 just like the Rock the Girl. Uh, now what about 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:40.120 you civil because you went from from the government into nonprofit, 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.320 which that was different too. Yes, and that's not what 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:46.400 I saw. That's not what your original plan was. No, 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:51.680 it was not, Adrian. I had started looking at my 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:57.840 retirement figures ten ten years before I retired, figuring out 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.440 what my income was gonna be. I worked for the 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:05.800 federal government. I moved up to the highest grade level 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:10.560 in the federal government, which of course was management, And 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.760 at five years before I retired, I knew I was 0:16:15.800 --> 0:16:19.720 gonna leave in five years? Was that because you looked 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.440 looked at the numbers and you felt like financially it 0:16:22.520 --> 0:16:24.720 was okay for you to do for you were just 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:27.200 sick and tired and you needed to be done, and 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:30.000 you need to figure out how you could do that. Well, 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.160 it was actually both. It was actually both, But I 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.120 would say it was more that I was ready to stop. 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.600 By the time I left the federal government, I had 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:44.000 a team of thirty six managers over three hundred fifty employees, 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.040 and I had just felt that I had made as 0:16:48.120 --> 0:16:52.000 much of a contribution as I could and as I 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:55.320 was willing to make in search of having some meaning 0:16:55.360 --> 0:17:00.320 in my life. So prior to retiring, I am arked 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.200 on a journey with the Center from my Body Medicine, 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:10.680 and I began to receive training in teaching meditation, various 0:17:10.760 --> 0:17:17.840 modes of meditation, all the didactic or medical physiological benefits 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.159 that go along with that, as well as the spiritual 0:17:21.240 --> 0:17:24.480 and emotional benefits that go along with the various types 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:30.040 of meditation and practicing. And so my initial plan was 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:36.720 to become certified and work with that particular group of people. However, 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.040 I put that training on home. My mom got sick. 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.199 We had to take care of her, and so my 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.840 thing was I was going to retire, do my certification 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:52.120 and just run meditation groups, stress management groups, resilience groups, 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:55.760 things of that nature that help people heal and help 0:17:55.800 --> 0:18:00.480 people move forward. And what happened was six month before 0:18:00.520 --> 0:18:04.480 I retired, because I am in recovery in a twelve 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:09.159 step program of over thirty one years, I was exposed 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:12.280 to the peer recovery movement, which is a relatively new 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:16.680 movement where you have people with life experiences, whether directly 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.399 through addiction or as an ally maybe a family member 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.919 or close person suffered from the disease of addiction, and 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.240 we received this peer recovery training so that we can 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:33.919 support people that want to recover. And through completing that training, 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:38.720 I was introduced to the nonprofit that I worked at today, 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:43.360 which is a supportive housing program for families that are 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:47.040 in the reunification process of getting their children back. Their 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:51.120 children were removed due to their substance use, and it's 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.679 about for me, it was about finding some meaning, making 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:58.920 a contribution, using my own life skills in order to 0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:00.919 do that. But let me tell you was funny about that. 0:19:01.000 --> 0:19:05.080 I started there in that vein. However, my executive leadership 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.080 skills kicked in. I tried not to I tried not 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:12.520 to do it. Really did not want another career, couldn't 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:16.880 not take charge get a job, and I couldn't do it. 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:19.760 And so COVID came and I worked at home for 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.800 a couple of months, and in those couple of months, 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:27.120 I wrote a proposal to add value to the infrastructure 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:29.720 of the organization. So of course when I presented it, 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:33.120 I was no longer serving as a mentor. I moved up. 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:37.040 Now I worked directly for the director of that nonprofit. 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:49.840 Wow nice, Now when did you actually had to go 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.360 back to school? All of you had to get additional training, 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:59.640 But I think yours, Wendy, was a bit more intense. Yes, 0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:06.080 it was, and it was never in my nursing. School 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:09.040 was like a hazing and I was like, I'm never 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:14.159 going back to school. So yeah, that was challenging. I 0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:17.639 was years old and I had been out of school 0:20:17.680 --> 0:20:21.560 for many years. For me, this was a calling on 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.359 my life. That's what I realized. It was appalling on 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:29.639 my life. And my girlfriend and former coworker, Renee. Karen 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:32.879 and Adrian both know Renee. She was the one that 0:20:32.960 --> 0:20:34.840 said to me one day she said, you know what, 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:36.879 she said, I'm gonna say this to you, and I 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:38.840 know you may not want to hear it. She said, 0:20:38.920 --> 0:20:42.760 but I really think that you should consider counseling or 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:47.120 therapy or something, just based on our relationship and how 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.960 she sold me interact with other people. And I had 0:20:50.000 --> 0:20:53.440 heard that before, but it was like whatever, And she said, 0:20:53.480 --> 0:20:56.680 but she said it may require that you go back 0:20:56.680 --> 0:20:58.680 to school. And I was like, then that's not gonna happen. 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:00.879 Let's not talk about that in more because I'm not 0:21:00.960 --> 0:21:04.240 going to do it. But after a series of events, 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.000 it was just really interesting. That's what kind of got 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.960 it going. That conversation that we had sitting there at work, 0:21:11.080 --> 0:21:16.359 miserable on our jobs, and it started a series of 0:21:16.480 --> 0:21:21.520 events that was amazing, that was truly amazing. And I 0:21:21.560 --> 0:21:25.280 had actually gone through a slight depression because not a 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:28.840 slight depression, I was depressed because I was trying to 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:32.000 get back into clinical I had applied for a job 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:36.200 within Kaiser, which actually was the job that I started 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:41.920 in back in when I started working there, and I 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:45.199 got the position, and then twenty four hours later they 0:21:45.240 --> 0:21:47.479 froze the position and decided that they were not going 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:49.879 to fill it after they offered it to me. So 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:55.240 that was in November of and I really spiraled down 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.200 after that. I was like, what am I gonna do? 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.080 Because I figured I'm gonna being at least until I'm 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:04.600 sixty two or sixty five, and I was fifty one. 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:08.359 I said, I cannot do this for the next fourteen years. 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:11.879 That's just not gonna happen. It's not gonna happen. And 0:22:12.480 --> 0:22:14.600 I didn't know what I was going to do. So 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:17.679 I figured, you know what, I have to change my 0:22:17.800 --> 0:22:20.879 attitude about this. I've got to find meaning and purpose 0:22:20.960 --> 0:22:23.679 in my life outside of this because I have to work. 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:26.480 So what am I gonna do? And it took me 0:22:26.920 --> 0:22:31.280 several months before I figured it out, And when it 0:22:31.440 --> 0:22:34.639 hit me, I said, oh my gosh, I may have 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:36.960 to go back to school. So then I put all 0:22:36.960 --> 0:22:39.280 this criteria on going back to school, like I'm not 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:42.080 taking a g r E. I'm not gonna do this. 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:44.879 I'm not gonna do that. I had to look for 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:47.760 a program I don't know how I'm gonna pay for. 0:22:47.880 --> 0:22:50.320 There were all these things, but then all the doors 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:54.399 just slowly started to open up, and I can say 0:22:54.480 --> 0:22:58.479 to you ladies, going back to school. I wound up 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:01.240 going back at I had us turned fifty two, so 0:23:01.280 --> 0:23:03.639 I was contemplating all this at fifty one going on 0:23:03.760 --> 0:23:09.760 fifty two, and in I went back full time school, 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:15.159 full time work. I had to do clinical rotation, like 0:23:15.240 --> 0:23:17.960 the whole nine yards. But everything worked out to the 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:20.199 point where I never took out a student loan. I 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:22.359 had a child in college, and I had a child 0:23:22.359 --> 0:23:26.479 in private high school, and I did not. I paid 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:31.760 for my education, my my graduate education through scholarships and 0:23:31.920 --> 0:23:35.280 through the job, your wish and reimbursement, because everything just 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:38.000 opened up. So it was something I never thought I 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:40.719 would do, and it actually turned out being I did 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:43.399 three years and then I had to do post graduate 0:23:43.440 --> 0:23:46.919 work to get my clinical hours, so it was a 0:23:46.960 --> 0:23:51.000 five year journey. It was a five year journey. Did 0:23:51.080 --> 0:23:53.760 either of you care and or simple did either of 0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:57.600 you experience any because Wendy was talking about going through 0:23:57.640 --> 0:24:00.879 a bit of a depression and this satisfaction with the 0:24:00.960 --> 0:24:03.440 job that she was in and trying to figure out 0:24:03.520 --> 0:24:05.719 what was gonna be next for her. Did either of 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:12.639 you ever experience anything like that? Did not, Adrian, because 0:24:12.880 --> 0:24:15.800 what happened for me was when I went to my 0:24:15.920 --> 0:24:19.280 first Now, mind you, I had been researching my retirement 0:24:19.359 --> 0:24:22.960 to make sure that I could live outside of there. 0:24:23.720 --> 0:24:27.000 And when I went from my first training with the 0:24:27.040 --> 0:24:31.760 Center for my Body Medicine, it was just for self 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:38.760 fulfillment and and self exploration. However, the training just impacted 0:24:38.800 --> 0:24:43.200 me so intensely that when I left there, I knew 0:24:43.320 --> 0:24:46.520 I was going to retire and I knew I would 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:50.760 do something to help people. Yeah, did you ever get 0:24:50.840 --> 0:24:54.200 discouraged Karen as you were going through all that still, 0:24:54.200 --> 0:24:57.480 because that real estate and getting preparing for the exam 0:24:57.600 --> 0:24:59.600 and all of that, it just seemed like a lot. 0:25:00.560 --> 0:25:04.040 It was a lot, and I couldn't in the middle 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:07.000 of it. I was like, what are you doing? Because Wendy, 0:25:07.080 --> 0:25:11.120 I went back to school to get my pH d. Oh, 0:25:11.160 --> 0:25:14.480 my goodness, years before I'm a b D. I'm a 0:25:14.640 --> 0:25:19.240 b D. Oh wow, Okay, but I got sick. That's 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:23.520 when I got lupus and and it turns out that 0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:27.560 the doctor said that the stress of going back is 0:25:27.600 --> 0:25:31.760 what put me over the edge, because that was oh 0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:36.119 my goodness, it was something else. But anyway, yeah, I 0:25:36.640 --> 0:25:39.240 doing that real estate. I was like, oh my goodness, 0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:42.240 what in the world am I doing now? But again 0:25:42.640 --> 0:25:45.560 I had it. Turns out where I was taking my 0:25:45.720 --> 0:25:49.640 classes is the agency I ended up with, and it 0:25:49.680 --> 0:25:53.040 was a black woman who was teaching the class, and 0:25:53.080 --> 0:25:57.920 it's a black woman who runs my agency. She's the broker. 0:25:58.680 --> 0:26:01.760 And that made all the difference in the world because 0:26:01.800 --> 0:26:06.040 I had support, you know that, and and both of 0:26:06.080 --> 0:26:09.520 them to this day. And like I said, my broker 0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:20.280 is just she's just an angel. It's a bit of 0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:24.080 a challenge for people to when they think about retirement 0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:27.639 and think about the possibility of doing something else, is 0:26:27.680 --> 0:26:33.840 to really find what that something else is. Absolutely yeah, 0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:37.879 So yeah, it's hard to actually figure out what it 0:26:38.160 --> 0:26:41.040 is that you want to do and what can really 0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:48.800 work for your life now, considering you may have health issues, 0:26:49.840 --> 0:26:55.520 considering your family responsibilities. I know Phelps was always supportive 0:26:55.720 --> 0:26:58.120