Speaker 1: Welcome to the special edition of the Step and A
Speaker 1: Smith Show. I call it a special edition because of
Speaker 1: who I am about to talk to. I am honored
Speaker 1: to have my next guest. He is the forty eighth
Speaker 1: Governor of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. And obviously we know
Speaker 1: he's sitting here with me in New Orleans because the
Speaker 1: Philadelphia Eagles played in the Super Bowl. I'm talking about
Speaker 1: the Pennsylvania government himself. Mister jos Shapiro, how are you, sir, House.
Speaker 2: Everything great to be with you, Steve.
Speaker 1: I couldn't wait to talk to you because there's so
Speaker 1: many things to talk to you about outside of sports.
Speaker 1: We talked about our sports the other day, and now
Speaker 1: here we go. We're gonna get in your wheelhouse right now.
Speaker 1: And you've seen the president, forty seventh President of the
Speaker 1: United States, Donald Trump, handing down an abundance of executive
Speaker 1: orders and it's something that we can get into in
Speaker 1: a little while. But the first order of business is
Speaker 1: his position that essentially the US wants to take over
Speaker 1: the Gaza. Yeah, what was your reaction when you heard that?
Speaker 1: And when you saw him standing next to Benjamin Netan, Yahoo,
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister of Israel whistling.
Speaker 2: So I thought it was an unserious proposal. I thought
Speaker 2: it was a proposal that, if he actually carried it
Speaker 2: out the way he said he was, violates international law.
Speaker 2: I thought it was deeply disrespectful to the Palestinian people.
Speaker 2: I think it doesn't take into account Jordan and Egypt
Speaker 2: and how they're gonna feel about it. I thought it
Speaker 2: was wrong. Look, I want these hostilities to and I
Speaker 2: want all these hostages home. I'm someone who believes that
Speaker 2: there should be a two state solution. I want the
Speaker 2: Palestinians to have a state that they can call their own.
Speaker 2: I want them to live peacefully, side by side with Israel.
Speaker 2: I think what Donald Trump did was make that harder.
Speaker 2: And again I thought it was really un serious and unhelpful.
Speaker 2: At this time, you still got about one hundred ish
Speaker 2: hostages that aren't home. Why would you do anything to
Speaker 2: upset that process?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Why would you do anything like that that's going to
Speaker 2: make it harder for those loved ones to be able
Speaker 2: to wrap their arms around those hostages get them back
Speaker 2: from Hamas's Hamas's control. So I didn't think it was serious. Look,
Speaker 2: I get this guy. He likes to make a lot
Speaker 2: of noise. He likes to put a lot of stuff
Speaker 2: out there, throw a bunch of stuff up against the
Speaker 2: wall and see what sticks. And I'm sure we're going
Speaker 2: to talk more about that. I just thought this was
Speaker 2: both unserious and unhelpful at this time.
Speaker 1: With that being said, how did you feel again about
Speaker 1: prime in Benjamin that Yahoo's response, which was pretty much nothing.
Speaker 1: I mean, he looked at it, looked like he had
Speaker 1: glee on his face. He certainly didn't see alarm, seem
Speaker 1: alarmed or disturbed by what the president was saying. And
Speaker 1: what do you make of that?
Speaker 2: I think Natanya, who's playing a short term game, he's
Speaker 2: not thinking about the long term interests of Israel's playing
Speaker 2: a short term game to keep himself out of legal jeopardy,
Speaker 2: to keep himself self and power with this really difficult
Speaker 2: coalition that he needs to be able to stay into power.
Speaker 2: I think if you're taking a long term, sober look
Speaker 2: at Israel's safety and security, you need to figure out
Speaker 2: a way for the Palestinians to look drive hamas out,
Speaker 2: drive terrorism out, of course, but have a stable home
Speaker 2: where they can focus on their economic goals, their educational goals,
Speaker 2: their other goals as a nation, and that is going
Speaker 2: to create more peace and stability in the region. And
Speaker 2: I don't think that's out who thinks about that at all.
Speaker 2: He's just trying to look at his short term interest.
Speaker 1: Why do you believe he doesn't think about that at all?
Speaker 1: I would surmise it's just a guess because I certainly
Speaker 1: don't know as much as you, But I would surmise
Speaker 1: that one of the reasons he may have short term
Speaker 1: thinking is because when we think about what Hamas did
Speaker 1: last October seventh, and how they ravaged to Israel and
Speaker 1: kidnapped and murdered people, what have absolutely awful excuse for it?
Speaker 1: That was on Benjamin Yaho's watch, correct, And I imagine
Speaker 1: there are a plethora of people in Israel that are
Speaker 1: not very fond of him in the job he has
Speaker 1: done because they point the finger at him for that.
Speaker 1: Could that explain your assertions about his short term.
Speaker 2: That's why I'm saying short term the moment this war
Speaker 2: is over, which look, God willing, this war is gonna
Speaker 2: be over tomorrow. We want all these hostages home, we
Speaker 2: want the violence to end. There's gonna be a whole
Speaker 2: lot of questions about why didn't he know on October seventh,
Speaker 2: or what did he know and what did he ignore?
Speaker 2: His trial for corruption charges gets back going, He's going
Speaker 2: to have to answer to the sixty two ish sixty
Speaker 2: fourist whatever he's got now members of his coalition as
Speaker 2: to what the best path forward is. As long as
Speaker 2: there is continued fighting, as long as there is continued
Speaker 2: what I would describe as chaos within his ranks, he's
Speaker 2: able to be protected. That is maybe in the interest
Speaker 2: of Benjamin Natanyahu in the short term, it is not
Speaker 2: the interests of Israel in the long term. I've said
Speaker 2: for a long time stephen A, I don't think Natanya
Speaker 2: who's got the best interests of Israel long term. Now
Speaker 2: I'm sitting in the backseat. I'm not in Israel. I'm
Speaker 2: not a voter in Israel. I'm not an Israeli citizen.
Speaker 2: I don't get a say in this. I'm answering your
Speaker 2: question as someone who's looked at this issue. I think
Speaker 2: long term, you want to create an environment. We're twelve, thirteen, fourteen,
Speaker 2: fifteen year old Palestinian kids are growing up not with
Speaker 2: animosity toward Israel, but with hope for a brighter future
Speaker 2: for themselves, same thing for Israeli kids. If you're able
Speaker 2: to do that, you're able to create stability in the
Speaker 2: region in the long run.
Speaker 1: I'm questioning this possibility when you talk about the displacement
Speaker 1: of one point five million Palestinians.
Speaker 2: Am I talking about Trump's That's what I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm in Trump. I mean Trump, That's what I'm talking about.
Speaker 1: When you're talking about when he's talking about it along
Speaker 1: those lines, and you don't hear emphatic resistance to that
Speaker 1: emanating from Israel, Yeah, then they're going to be viewed
Speaker 1: as being complicit, which to me is additional reasons for
Speaker 1: the forther the vitriol to continue moving forward. I don't
Speaker 1: see how peace comes from that. No, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't see how peace comes from it. I don't
Speaker 2: see how it's lawful what President Trump has put forth,
Speaker 2: and again I don't think it's in the interests of
Speaker 2: Israel long term.
Speaker 1: With that being said, where do you go from here?
Speaker 1: As the governor of Pennsylvania, as somebody who's been seen
Speaker 1: who's been seen as being pro Israel as well you
Speaker 1: should and has been criticized for that, particularly leading up
Speaker 1: to the election. I'm wondering how you feel right now
Speaker 1: about your stance where you stand, knowing the criticism that
Speaker 1: you have received from being pro Israel, and now you're
Speaker 1: taking the position I stand.
Speaker 2: I stand where I stand, and I don't get too
Speaker 2: highs from the too high from the love or too
Speaker 2: low from the hate. I think with any of these issues.
Speaker 2: And I'll remind Steven that I'm a governor of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2: I'm not the Secretary of State. That's right, But I
Speaker 2: got opinions on things, and I'm happy to share them
Speaker 2: with you. I think you've got to study issues, think
Speaker 2: you've got to be open to opinions that aren't your
Speaker 2: own and bring them in as you're thinking through stuff.
Speaker 2: And then ultimately you've got to make the decision that
Speaker 2: in my day job is in the best interests of
Speaker 2: Pennsylvanians and the best interest in the future of Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2: And you've got to stick to that regardless of the
Speaker 2: love you get or the hate you get on it.
Speaker 2: So I'm mindful that there are some people out there
Speaker 2: that attack me. Let's be real for being a proud
Speaker 2: American Jew and someone who's open about celebrating my faith
Speaker 2: and open about how my wife and I are choosing
Speaker 2: to raise our kids and proud of who we are.
Speaker 2: I get that that brings attacks from others, but that
Speaker 2: doesn't force me to change the way I think about
Speaker 2: stuff or change where I've usedt toff. What I do
Speaker 2: leave myself open to are people who bring a different perspective,
Speaker 2: who are able to educate me on something I don't
Speaker 2: know about, and I'm willing to open up my mind
Speaker 2: to those things and evolve in my positions. Your positions,
Speaker 2: when you change your position, I think it's really important,
Speaker 2: especially when you're a job like mine, to be really
Speaker 2: honest with the people you serve about. Why give you
Speaker 2: an example of that, moving from Middle East to something else.
Speaker 2: I ran twice successfully for Attorney General of Pennsylvania. Both
Speaker 2: times I ran in support of the death penalty. Honestly
Speaker 2: held view based on research, based on the experiences that
Speaker 2: I had as an elected official and then serving as
Speaker 2: Attorney General. Case by case by case would come across
Speaker 2: my desk, and I could never sign off on capital punishment.
Speaker 2: Something was bothering me about that. I spent a lot
Speaker 2: of time thinking about it, spent a lot of time
Speaker 2: looking at it. More then my ten year old kick
Speaker 2: came over me one day and said that we don't
Speaker 2: do the death penalty in Pennsylvania, do we? And I
Speaker 2: couldn't look my kid in the eye and explain to
Speaker 2: him why we have the death penalty and why it's important. Now,
Speaker 2: I realized there's some folks out there who feel strongly
Speaker 2: on both sides of this. But after I thought about
Speaker 2: my kids question, I thought about my experience as Attorney General.
Speaker 2: I changed my mind on it, and I stood up
Speaker 2: in West Philadelphia give a long speech to folks explaining
Speaker 2: why I had. I know there's some people that didn't
Speaker 2: like that I changed my view on that, but I
Speaker 2: know they walked away going, you know what that guy
Speaker 2: actually thought about it. He explained to me why he
Speaker 2: is the way he is on that. I share that
Speaker 2: example with you because I'm not going to be bullied
Speaker 2: into changing my position one way or the other based
Speaker 2: on the noise that comes from people attacking me about
Speaker 2: being Jewish or attacking me about my support of Israel.
Speaker 2: But I am going to always be open to different perspective,
Speaker 2: different ideas, different thoughts, and communicate with the public, with
Speaker 2: my constituents in Pennsylvania as to why or how I've
Speaker 2: evolved on an issue.
Speaker 1: If not better, do you think that makes you distinctively
Speaker 1: different from the President of the United States from the
Speaker 1: Republican Party as we speak, considering how dogged they may
Speaker 1: be in their positions and how they don't necessarily change,
Speaker 1: at least publicly. Here's what I say.
Speaker 2: I don't know how the president makes decisions or thinks
Speaker 2: about issues. And I'm not trying to be a jerk senter.
Speaker 2: I really don't. I don't have an insight into how
Speaker 2: he thinks through an issue and arrives at a conclusion.
Speaker 2: I differ from him on a lot of his confusion conclusions.
Speaker 2: I don't know the process. The folks that I have
Speaker 2: a problem with are the enablers who know better, These
Speaker 2: members of Congress who have basically given up their constitutional responsibilities.
Speaker 2: The Republican elected leaders who will come to me and
Speaker 2: whisper in my ear. Can you believe he said that
Speaker 2: I don't agree with that? Whatever? And then you see
Speaker 2: these guys out at the press conference the next day. Oh,
Speaker 2: Donald Trump's the best. I agree with them on this.
Speaker 2: I agree with them on that. Those are the folks
Speaker 2: I have a problem with, and how they go through
Speaker 2: those mental gymnastics and sleep at night.
Speaker 1: See I view them. If I may make a statement here,
Speaker 1: I view them your show. You get to make that
Speaker 1: unstable people. People use derogatory terms, gutless or whatever, and
Speaker 1: I say, okay, But to me, they are scared to
Speaker 1: death because this is a man that has proven he
Speaker 1: will get you out of office. And if you're addicted
Speaker 1: to power and influence and it comes from sitting in
Speaker 1: one of those seats in the House of Congress, you're
Speaker 1: gonna do everything you can to hold on to what
Speaker 1: you have. And that's why they capitulate. Look at Ted Cruz,
Speaker 1: he talked about his wife. Look at MARKA. Rubio. I
Speaker 1: am aligned Marco Ruby and that's the Secretary of State.
Speaker 2: I mean, look at some of this stuff. Profoundly weak people.
Speaker 2: Let me tell you something. You insult my wife, we're
Speaker 2: not gonna be on the same team. And I just
Speaker 2: I find these folks to be ridiculous. First off, they've
Speaker 2: got a constitutional responsibility that the citizens of their states
Speaker 2: or their districts gave them. It's part of the whole
Speaker 2: checks and balances. We teach our kids this in elementary school.
Speaker 2: The fact is they have given up on that, And
Speaker 2: this isn't about issue A or B. Right, we can
Speaker 2: debate these issues whether we agree disagree. The fact is
Speaker 2: that they have a responsibility to play And it's not
Speaker 2: just saying, yeah, mister President, whatever you want. They have
Speaker 2: a constitutional responsibility to do their jobs and they're not.
Speaker 2: Those are the folks that bother me the most in
Speaker 2: our policy.
Speaker 1: What about the notion that people would look at Democrats
Speaker 1: and when we talk about, you know, the Republicans not
Speaker 1: having much spine, what about on the Democratic side where
Speaker 1: it got to a point, at least in my estimation
Speaker 1: as just a conscientious observer, it got to a point
Speaker 1: where people were scared of their own shadows because of
Speaker 1: the cancel culture that existed. And a lot of people,
Speaker 1: obviously for believe that the Democratic Party provoked that mind
Speaker 1: that level of thinking. What about that? What about people
Speaker 1: who look at the Democratic Party and some of the
Speaker 1: members of this.
Speaker 2: Fair criticism, yes, and it's criticism that I love it
Speaker 2: against folks in our party for years, not trying to
Speaker 2: personalize it about candidate A or or B. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I think we started walking around on eggshells. I think
Speaker 2: it is important to treat people with respect I think
Speaker 2: it's important to respect people for who they are. I
Speaker 2: think it's important to not bully other people in our society.
Speaker 2: But you can't go to such an extreme that you
Speaker 2: end up talking past folks and you end up not
Speaker 2: actually being able to listen to people and the feelings
Speaker 2: they have, the emotions they have, the desires they have,
Speaker 2: because you feel like you have to follow a certain
Speaker 2: set of rules or practices otherwise you don't get to
Speaker 2: be in the room. And I think that's been a
Speaker 2: problem for a lot of years. I don't do my
Speaker 2: politics that way. I don't govern that way, and I
Speaker 2: would argue I govern the toughest, most swingiest date in
Speaker 2: the entire country. And I'm proud of what we've been
Speaker 2: able to do there to bring people together and to
Speaker 2: not bully others, but to also not get ourselves so
Speaker 2: caught up in an extreme that we're not able to
Speaker 2: have an honest conversation with people.
Speaker 1: Do you believe that's what lost the election for Kamala
Speaker 1: Harris were just what we just finished talking about, the
Speaker 1: general consensus about the thinking associated with the Democratic Party.
Speaker 2: Conduct your question, But I'm going to say I'm not
Speaker 2: a pundit here and I get that. You know, like
Speaker 2: in sports, you know, you lose a game on Sunday,
Speaker 2: you got to spend time on Monday trying to figure
Speaker 2: out what happens. So when you start practicing Tuesday for
Speaker 2: the next game next weekend, you're better, right. And I
Speaker 2: get that there's gonna be folks doing that analysis. And
Speaker 2: I think that that is a fair question you are asking.
Speaker 2: That can be part of the analysis. But I think
Speaker 2: that this has been years in the making. I've seen
Speaker 2: it in rural communities in Pennsylvania where, by the way,
Speaker 2: I did quite well as a Democrat running in those
Speaker 2: areas where Democrats stops showing up, stop treating our farmers
Speaker 2: with respect. By the way, our farmers maybe do the
Speaker 2: most noble work in society. They feed our neighbors. Right,
Speaker 2: National Democratic Party for a lot of years started defining
Speaker 2: success is having a college degree. Let me tell you
Speaker 2: something to you, Nay, sixty two percent of Pennsylvania adults
Speaker 2: don't have a college degree. So if you're one of
Speaker 2: those sixty two percent, you looked at the Democratic Party,
Speaker 2: this is years and years and years in the making,
Speaker 2: and your being total success is defined by something you
Speaker 2: don't have. Well, all of a sudden, you're gonna start
Speaker 2: to say, are those folks really for me? I've tried
Speaker 2: to govern differently. Held my first day in office, I
Speaker 2: signed an executive order doing away with the college degree
Speaker 2: requirement to work in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. Well sixty
Speaker 2: percent of the people I've hired in Pennsylvania don't have
Speaker 2: a college degree. We're better for respecting people from all
Speaker 2: different walks of life. I think our party for a
Speaker 2: lot of years started getting away from that. Now the answer.
Speaker 2: Part of it is that Monday morning analysis you got
Speaker 2: to do after you lose again lose an election. That's fair,
Speaker 2: But part of it is I think folks are looking
Speaker 2: too much to Washington and not enough to what's been
Speaker 2: happening in the States over many years. I think there's
Speaker 2: a number of governors who are doing thoughtful things that
Speaker 2: matter in people's lives. My job is in to just
Speaker 2: give speeches and make a lot of noise. My job
Speaker 2: as a governor is to put points on the board
Speaker 2: every day for our school kids, for our farmers, for
Speaker 2: our cops, for our firefighters, for everybody. And I try
Speaker 2: and do that in a way that lifts everybody up.
Speaker 2: Doesn't shut people out, doesn't do it with an attitude
Speaker 2: of elitism or extremism, and it's working in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: But think about it. If I remember correctly doing my research,
Speaker 1: I was reading up about how Republican led effort for
Speaker 1: millions of millions of dollars in school vouchers or something
Speaker 1: that you supported, if I remember correctly, and you got
Speaker 1: criticized for that by your own party. Yep. I mean,
Speaker 1: so I'm looking at it from that stample. I'm saying,
Speaker 1: wait a minute here, at some point in time, do
Speaker 1: you pause. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about them,
Speaker 1: other members of your party that is. And I'm saying,
Speaker 1: look at what this man is doing in the state
Speaker 1: of Pennsylvania. Look at the reputation that he has, Look
Speaker 1: at how popular he has. You guys have said he
Speaker 1: hasn't really had any competition. Well, I'm from the Jordan era. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it wasn't a lot of petition because he made it
Speaker 1: look like it wasn't. It wasn't competitive because he annihilated
Speaker 1: all the time. It's Jordan, it's not Lebron. It's not Lebron.
Speaker 1: But we'll talk about that another day. My point is
Speaker 1: to use that analogy towards you. You would think that
Speaker 1: knowing all of this, seeing your record, seeing a state
Speaker 1: like Pennsylvania, knowing how rabid the base is, not just
Speaker 1: as fans of the sports team, but even their politicians,
Speaker 1: that knowing that you had such popularity in that state,
Speaker 1: it would be a no brainer, considering the importance of
Speaker 1: the state of Pennsylvania, that Kamala Harris would have chosen
Speaker 1: you as a vice presidential nominee. But that did not happen, sir, Yeah.
Speaker 2: And look, Steven, I said all along, Kamala Harris had
Speaker 2: a deeply personal decision to make who she wanted to
Speaker 2: run with, who she wanted to govern the country with.
Speaker 2: Uh In the end of the day, I had a
Speaker 2: personal decision to make too, okay, And I love being governor.
Speaker 2: I love being able to chart my own course. I
Speaker 2: love being able to meet a pencilnion on their farm
Speaker 2: on the streets of Philadelphia, hear their problem, and actually
Speaker 2: do something about it, get shit done for them. I
Speaker 2: always want to be in a job where I can
Speaker 2: make real change, make decisions and make things happen. And
Speaker 2: I love being governor in Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1: So is that your way of saying that it was
Speaker 1: a job that you didn't want because you wanted to
Speaker 1: be governor.
Speaker 2: It's my way of telling you how much I love
Speaker 2: being governor, and also respecting the fact that she had
Speaker 2: a decision to make she made it. I think Tim
Speaker 2: Wallas is a good guy. I wish they would have won.
Speaker 2: I can't pay my heart out for them. I worked
Speaker 2: hard to make sure to do my best to help
Speaker 2: make sure they want and they came up short.
Speaker 1: Well, let me be more direct, sir, if she had
Speaker 1: offered you the vice presidential position, would you have accepted.
Speaker 2: I think I think it is not worth going back
Speaker 2: and kind of Monday morning quarterback and later going into hypotheticals.
Speaker 2: I also want to be respectful of the vice president
Speaker 2: not get into our private conversations as well. I can
Speaker 2: tell tell you that I love my work. I love
Speaker 2: being able to do my work on my terms. I
Speaker 2: love being able to do my work and still be
Speaker 2: a father to our four kids and a husband of
Speaker 2: my loved my life since the ninth grade, and the
Speaker 2: best way for me to serve the public to be
Speaker 2: able to meet the obligations I've learned about from the
Speaker 2: way my parents taught me in the way my faith
Speaker 2: teaches me, it should be governor in Pennsylvania right now, All.
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Speaker 1: started off this conversation by talking about Israeli Palestinian conflict
Speaker 1: that obviously had transpired at the time she needed to
Speaker 1: make a decision. Speculation was that there were some folks
Speaker 1: who didn't know whether you would be the right guy
Speaker 1: because you were Jewish, because you were pro Israel, etc.
Speaker 1: This is the year twenty twenty five. Yeah, and yet
Speaker 1: we're weeks removed from that still being mentioned as a concern.
Speaker 1: What does that say to you about the state of
Speaker 1: America right now, that that is still a concern in
Speaker 1: some people.
Speaker 2: You know, I heard a little bit of that noise.
Speaker 2: I know there's a lot of noise online about that.
Speaker 2: I don't going to pay much attention to that, but
Speaker 2: I got to tell you, man, when I travel across Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: and I think we can agree the ultimate swing state.
Speaker 2: If you want to be president of the United states.
Speaker 2: You're Donald Trump, comme Myers, you gotta win Pennsylvania. I
Speaker 2: got to tell you, I go across the state and
Speaker 2: folks open up to me about their faith because I'm
Speaker 2: a person of faith. I find that it allows me
Speaker 2: to have a greater connection with my constituents, with my
Speaker 2: fellow Pennsylvanians. I find that it is a value add
Speaker 2: not a divisive thing. Remember, I'm literally someone who has
Speaker 2: followed in a line of leaders of Pennsylvania. I followed
Speaker 2: William Pennon, a guy who created the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: as a place that would be warm and welcoming for
Speaker 2: all people of all faiths. I'm not sure pen ever
Speaker 2: imagined there'd be a Jewish governor, right, But I think
Speaker 2: that's a spirit that we have always had. That or
Speaker 2: a place that's tolerant or a place that's welcoming. And
Speaker 2: so yeah, I know there's a lot of noise that
Speaker 2: was surrounding that, you know, in our national and politics,
Speaker 2: But my experience when you're actually out talking to folks,
Speaker 2: when you're out engaging with them, is folks are really
Speaker 2: good and honorable and decent. They may not worship the
Speaker 2: way you do, but they appreciate that you're a person
Speaker 2: of faith, that you're grounded in something, and it gives
Speaker 2: them something to connect with you on is it.
Speaker 1: Fit to say that the Jewish community shares exactly what
Speaker 1: you just expressed, Because we've been hearing a lot about
Speaker 1: anti Semitism, and one of the things that I point
Speaker 1: to is that I'm not Jewish. I can't stand when
Speaker 1: people who are not black try to tell Black people
Speaker 1: about what they've experienced. It gets on my last nerves
Speaker 1: because you don't know. But I will tell you, as
Speaker 1: a black individual, I'm not Jewish. You would know better
Speaker 1: than me when we hear anti semitism? How real is
Speaker 1: that issue? In this day and age?
Speaker 2: Anti Semitism is on the rise. Okay, that is an
Speaker 2: empirical fact. I still think the vast, vast, vast, vast
Speaker 2: vast majority of people are good and decent and respectful,
Speaker 2: but it is true that it is on the rise.
Speaker 2: I think that there are a number of reasons for that,
Speaker 2: but one that I think has been driving a lot
Speaker 2: of this is the fact that two oftentimes we don't
Speaker 2: have leaders speaking in acting with moral clarity, giving certain
Speaker 2: folks who respewing anti semitism or other forms of bigotry
Speaker 2: a pass or actually allowing their words to be misappropriated
Speaker 2: by someone who's hateful to use that as a tool
Speaker 2: to attack others. I think we see that from the
Speaker 2: President of the United States at times, and it's dangerous,
Speaker 2: and so I think that is something that we have
Speaker 2: to guard against, and every leader has that responsibility speak
Speaker 2: and act moral clarity. I try to do that, and
Speaker 2: I think if more leaders did that, you'd see the
Speaker 2: incidents of anti semitism, racism, hatred, bigotry and all forms
Speaker 2: begin to be reduced in our society. It's never gonna
Speaker 2: get rid of it, but it's going to be reduced.
Speaker 2: I just can't stress enough, though, Steven. As I get around,
Speaker 2: as I talk to people, as i'm in their communities,
Speaker 2: most people are really good and decent and honorable folks.
Speaker 2: They'll stand up to someone who's b someone in their
Speaker 2: community or online completely and that gives me hope, That
Speaker 2: gives me a sense of optimism. I'm not sure our
Speaker 2: politics are keeping up with where the community is right now,
Speaker 2: but it is something that I think gets lost a
Speaker 2: lot of times in our media or online. I'm not
Speaker 2: someone who bashes the media but I think sometimes that
Speaker 2: storyline gets missed.
Speaker 1: Could politics be what's bringing our society down?
Speaker 2: In parties?
Speaker 1: On what the part it is?
Speaker 2: Because I think leaders have a responsibility speaking act of
Speaker 2: moral clarity, and too many of them don't.
Speaker 1: Right now, what do you say, because we know some
Speaker 1: of the rhetoric the president is used, as you alluded
Speaker 1: to and what have you, And obviously that's problematic at times,
Speaker 1: no doubt. But there's another side too. Just the other
Speaker 1: day we saw Democrats really pushing back on Doge's apartment,
Speaker 1: you know, Elon Musk and his it. You don't get
Speaker 1: me started with that and the verb, the language they use.
Speaker 1: Some would say that kind of rhetoric is exactly what
Speaker 1: we don't need either. How are you any better as
Speaker 1: a party than what you're describing the other side to be?
Speaker 1: There are folks who look at Democrats and they say that, now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, I didn't see this specific thing you're
Speaker 2: talking about, but I'm not gonna duck what you're saying,
Speaker 2: because I think you make an important point. In general,
Speaker 2: I think you do have too much of this rhetoric
Speaker 2: in both parties that is divisive, that is too white hot,
Speaker 2: that is just making it harder to find common ground.
Speaker 2: I get the theatrics of politics, right, I get that
Speaker 2: there are some folks out there in Pennsylvania who, Yeah,
Speaker 2: they got to like sort of show that they're fighting
Speaker 2: with me to their constituents so they can score some
Speaker 2: political points. But you know what, you got to get
Speaker 2: your ass around the table and also make some progress
Speaker 2: and work on things together. And so I was trying
Speaker 2: keep that in mind with my rhetoric and as I
Speaker 2: deal with others across the island Pennsylvania. I think we've
Speaker 2: got to learn from the way we try and do
Speaker 2: business in our commonwealth. At the national level, I don't
Speaker 2: think that kind of rhetoric, no matter what parties engaged
Speaker 2: in it is helpful, and it further divides us, and
Speaker 2: it breeds more cynicism in our society. And when you've
Speaker 2: got a public that gets cynical, a few things happen.
Speaker 2: Number One, you kind of lurch back and forth in politics. Well,
Speaker 2: I'm pissed at these guys, I'm voting for these guys.
Speaker 2: How many times have we seen that over the last
Speaker 2: twenty years? Stephen A right, Democratic wave, Republican wave. I
Speaker 2: think a lot of that is because people are angry
Speaker 2: and they're cynicism, and so they're going back and forth,
Speaker 2: and it makes it harder to actually get stuff done
Speaker 2: that matters to people. Do you tell this to your
Speaker 2: own party?
Speaker 1: I mean, when people think about the squad, or they
Speaker 1: think about the progressives on the extreme, look the mag
Speaker 1: is on the right, you could say what you got
Speaker 1: to say to them, because you're absolutely right. But on
Speaker 1: the left as well, do you say this stuff to
Speaker 1: your own party?
Speaker 2: You know, I don't know that it's my job to
Speaker 2: lecture other Democrats. I think what my job is is
Speaker 2: to be a hell of a good governor. In Pennsylvania.
Speaker 2: The shows you can get elected with not just Democratic votes,
Speaker 2: but Republican independent votes as well. I'll tell you I
Speaker 2: got more votes anybody ever in the history of Pennsylvania
Speaker 2: running for government. I'm not saying it's about myself on
Speaker 2: the back. I'm saying that because, as a empirical fact,
Speaker 2: the only way you get the numbers I got is
Speaker 2: by having Republicans and independents vote for you along with Democrats.
Speaker 2: I'm governing in a way where our ratings show Republicans
Speaker 2: independence still support the work I'm doing. I think the
Speaker 2: best thing I can do is not lecture people in
Speaker 2: my party or the other party, but show that you
Speaker 2: can do common sense things well, can bring people together
Speaker 2: and you can get stuff done.
Speaker 1: What govern that come to you for advice? Because I mean,
Speaker 1: you're winning, you're doing your job, so you would think
Speaker 1: that if you you you've got a formula that can
Speaker 1: be emulated. I mean, listen, I'm a thief. I steal
Speaker 1: successful habits all the time. I see a successful habit,
Speaker 1: I'm stealing it. Okay, I'm gonna massive it, I'm gonna learn.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do what I have to do because I
Speaker 1: want to win. Sure, what about folks in you but
Speaker 1: they don't they don't reach out to you. They do.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, I'm happy to have those conversations with
Speaker 2: a candidate running for office, with party committees and groups
Speaker 2: and what have you, and I do. But I don't
Speaker 2: think sort of engaging in uh, you know, a public
Speaker 2: beating of people in my party or the other. I
Speaker 2: don't think that's particularly helpful. I think the best thing
Speaker 2: I can do is lead by example in the commonwth
Speaker 2: and That's what I'm trying to do every day.
Speaker 1: Let's get back to Trump in this regard these executive
Speaker 1: orders that he's been handed out like skittles, some crying.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's something special, It's it's unbelievable. I mean,
Speaker 1: he's got a fresh shop.
Speaker 2: Most of them aren't worth the paper they're written on.
Speaker 1: But I'm wondering what your thoughts have been about the
Speaker 1: executive orders A. And is there one is that, anyone
Speaker 1: particular that alarms you more than the others.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the one that alarms me the most
Speaker 2: is the one that actually, of all the things he signed,
Speaker 2: is the only one that's absolute, and that is when
Speaker 2: he pardoned people who assaulted cops on January six, When
Speaker 2: he granted clemency to people that assaulted cops on January six,
Speaker 2: I think that shows an utter lack of respect for
Speaker 2: law enforcement. Listen, I'm someone who for years has respected
Speaker 2: law enforcement. We invest in law enforcement in Pennsylvania. I
Speaker 2: have their backs. They screw up, they're gonna be held accountable,
Speaker 2: but I got their backs. I understand how central safety
Speaker 2: is and law and order is. Proper law and order
Speaker 2: that respects people's constitutional rights is for a civilized society.
Speaker 2: And the fact that on his first day using the
Speaker 2: power of that sharpie pen gave those folks a pardon,
Speaker 2: says a lot about his values and something I really
Speaker 2: strongly disagree with.
Speaker 1: Now, just to be clear, do you believe are you
Speaker 1: of that position for anybody who stormed the capitol that
Speaker 1: day or just those who engage that there are those
Speaker 1: on the right that say some of them were lawless,
Speaker 1: not all. Do you differentiate?
Speaker 2: No, of course you have to differentiate between someone who
Speaker 2: was assaulting a cop versus someone who wasn't. Of course
Speaker 2: there's a difference. But look, stephen A. I mean, these
Speaker 2: folks were prosecuted, a jury of their peers heard the
Speaker 2: evidence and convicted them. I'm not going to stand here
Speaker 2: right now and say this sentence was too weak, this
Speaker 2: sentence was too strong.
Speaker 1: Whatever.
Speaker 2: You asked me a question, I'm answering it directly. You
Speaker 2: asked me what you know, what is it about? You
Speaker 2: know the things that he signed that you know, what
Speaker 2: do you think of that? I thought that was the
Speaker 2: most disturbing thing. And you know, in a civilized society,
Speaker 2: you've got to have rule of law being respected by
Speaker 2: all people. You've got to make sure that people's constitutional
Speaker 2: rights were protected in the process. And I just thought
Speaker 2: using the stroke of that pen to do that on
Speaker 2: the first day sent a really poor.
Speaker 1: Message Department of Government efficiency. It was created, it was
Speaker 1: not something that was in existence before Trump got there,
Speaker 1: your thoughts about its existence, and a non elected official
Speaker 1: like Elona Musk, yeah running it. Well.
Speaker 2: Look, I'll just tell you in Pennsylvania, I've worked my
Speaker 2: tail off to cut costs put money back in people's pockets.
Speaker 2: I've cut taxes five six times. I've proposed in my
Speaker 2: most recent budget to cut taxes even more. We're trying
Speaker 2: to make childcare more affordable, help seniors stay in their homes,
Speaker 2: help our small businesses. We're trying to bring down the
Speaker 2: car lost of goods and services to put money back
Speaker 2: in people's pockets. And one of the ways we are
Speaker 2: doing that and also still being able to invest in
Speaker 2: our schools, in public safety, and economic development is by
Speaker 2: eliminating wasteful spending in Pennsylvania. So I'm all for eliminating
Speaker 2: wasteful spending. And I'm glad they've got a crew that's
Speaker 2: looking at that now. I mean, I kind of have
Speaker 2: to left. This goes back to the beginning of our
Speaker 2: conversation about members of Congress. I mean, this money doesn't
Speaker 2: just go out will and nilly. The way it happens
Speaker 2: is members of Congress vote for these appropriations bills and
Speaker 2: a president signs it into law. So those members decided, hey,
Speaker 2: they want a million dollars going to the Stephen A.
Speaker 2: Smith's Society or whatever, and then to not actually spend
Speaker 2: that money and have the members of Congress that supported
Speaker 2: it not stand up and say, wait a minute, we
Speaker 2: got some constitutional responsibility here. We sent the money out.
Speaker 2: That to me is a little crazy. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: think we should be cutting back on wasteful spending. I
Speaker 2: think you got to go through a legal process to
Speaker 2: do that. I am glad the Trump administration is looking
Speaker 2: at it. I think wasting too much money for too long,
Speaker 2: And it's not dissimilar to the kind of work we're
Speaker 2: doing in Pennsylvania to cut costs.
Speaker 1: Your thoughts about his position on diversity, equity and inclusion
Speaker 1: DEI being completely eradicated and eliminated, your thoughts, You know.
Speaker 2: You reference before all the eos he signed, executive orders
Speaker 2: he signed, and a whole bunch of them have to
Speaker 2: do with so called deis. It seems to me that
Speaker 2: they're using that as an excuse for everything from the
Speaker 2: horrific plane crash in Washington, DC to the fact that
Speaker 2: they do not have a plan to do the one
Speaker 2: thing that people really wanted Donald Trump to do, which
Speaker 2: is to cut costs in our communities. I haven't seen
Speaker 2: any eos about making eggs any cheapness, stephen A. I
Speaker 2: don't know of milk or gas or any of these
Speaker 2: other things, so I'd like to see him focusing on
Speaker 2: that when it comes to this issue of DEI. You
Speaker 2: didn't kind of ask me this directly, but I do
Speaker 2: want you to know where I'm on this. I mentioned
Speaker 2: William Penn before, yes, and I take very seriously my
Speaker 2: responsibility as a governor that we have a place that is
Speaker 2: warm and welcoming for all, that respects all people, no
Speaker 2: matter what you look like, where you come from, who
Speaker 2: you love, who you pray to, that doesn't pit one
Speaker 2: group against the other, and that respects people for who
Speaker 2: they are and doesn't make people feel guilty for who
Speaker 2: they are. I have never thought that DEI should be
Speaker 2: vested with one employee or one office. I think it
Speaker 2: is a mindset of respect for all of acknowledging our
Speaker 2: shared history and making sure that opportunity is available for
Speaker 2: all Pennsylvanians in my case, or for all Americans. What
Speaker 2: I don't like about what the President's doing is he
Speaker 2: uses these sharply signed executive orders to bully other people.
Speaker 2: And I think that's bullshit. If you're a president, you're
Speaker 2: a governor, you're a mayor, you're a leader of a community,
Speaker 2: you've got a responsibility to lift everybody up, not talk
Speaker 2: certain people now, not pit one person against the other.
Speaker 2: That makes everybody's life less safe, and it's bad.
Speaker 1: For our society. Let me share my position with you
Speaker 1: about DII real quick to see if you agree what
Speaker 1: I've said publicly. DEI. What I don't like about what
Speaker 1: I've seen the right doing since Trump has gotten into
Speaker 1: office and signed these ohs is that you're making the
Speaker 1: claim that anybody associated with DEI was unqualified incompetent. And
Speaker 1: I said, first of all, that's wrong. But secondly, and
Speaker 1: most importantly, as was as was the case with the
Speaker 1: Rooney Rule in the National Football League, as was the
Speaker 1: case with affirmative action, we're just going to ignore why
Speaker 1: it was put in a place to begin with. We're
Speaker 1: going to ignore the origin of its existence. It existed
Speaker 1: because it was unfair unfairness and inequities that were being practiced,
Speaker 1: and it needed to be addressed. That's why the programs
Speaker 1: came in play to begin with. So it seems like
Speaker 1: we have a segment of our society wants to ignore
Speaker 1: the reality of.
Speaker 2: So I'm talking about our shared history. We have to
Speaker 2: understand that, and you've got to be building a society
Speaker 2: where everybody's got opportunity, not where you're pitting one against
Speaker 2: the other, but where everybody's got opportunity. That's what I'm
Speaker 2: trying to do in Pennsylvania, and also trying to make
Speaker 2: clear that you know, when a black owned business does
Speaker 2: well in my commonwealth, it doesn't mean that that small
Speaker 2: business next door owned by someone who looks like me
Speaker 2: has to do worse off. This is not a zero
Speaker 2: as some game. We can lift everybody up. One of
Speaker 2: the things I'm most proud of is the work we're
Speaker 2: doing to bring a high quality education every zip code
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania. Right we got to make sure that a
Speaker 2: child that looks like me as a shot and a
Speaker 2: child that looks like you has a shot, and we
Speaker 2: shouldn't be pitting those kids against one another either. In
Speaker 2: the way we teach them or in the way we
Speaker 2: fund their schools.
Speaker 1: Immigration, I have to confess to you, I'm liberal in
Speaker 1: my thinking. I'm a fiscal conservative and a social liberal.
Speaker 1: I've always been that way, even though I mostly vote Democrat.
Speaker 1: Here's the deal. I'm looking at his position and closing
Speaker 1: the borders, and I must say I could not disagree
Speaker 1: with him because of Biden. President Joe Biden opening the
Speaker 1: borders when he took office, and I took it to consideration.
Speaker 1: Barack Obama, Barack Obama was once joked about, I shouldn't
Speaker 1: say joke, but he was one the border and the
Speaker 1: porter in chief, so he certainly practiced it. He campaigned
Speaker 1: on it, he let it be known. He said, well,
Speaker 1: he had to say. They went out and did it.
Speaker 1: But he didn't stick out his chest and brag about it.
Speaker 1: He just did the job. I'm looking at Biden and
Speaker 1: you come into office, you know, after he departs four years.
Speaker 1: After he departs, Trump has his administration for four years.
Speaker 1: Then you come into office, and to me, you went
Speaker 1: against what Obama was doing and you opened the borders,
Speaker 1: and that's what caused a lot of this. Right now,
Speaker 1: to that.
Speaker 2: You say what I would say, you have your facts right,
Speaker 2: and that's important because a lot of the conversation about
Speaker 2: immigration has been devoid of facts. You go, look, Barack
Speaker 2: Obama is deporting way more people than Donald Trump.
Speaker 1: Yes he did.
Speaker 2: I think it's also true to say that there was
Speaker 2: a border challenge during the Biden administration. I have for
Speaker 2: years and years and years said the same thing. We
Speaker 2: need a secure border. Must make sure our border is secured.
Speaker 2: Some places it requires offense, some places it requires technology,
Speaker 2: some place that requires personnel, you name it. But you've
Speaker 2: got to have a secure border, and you've got to
Speaker 2: have clear rules of the road to enter this country.
Speaker 2: Someone who wants to come to America, I want you
Speaker 2: to come here, follow the rules, and I want you
Speaker 2: to make this country even better by bringing your talents,
Speaker 2: by bringing your heart, your passion, your drive to this
Speaker 2: great nation. Follow the rules. I also think, because we
Speaker 2: have had these challenges for so many years, you've got
Speaker 2: to acknowledge the more than ten million people who were
Speaker 2: here who came here illegally and have a path for
Speaker 2: them going forward, whether that path is deporting them because
Speaker 2: they've violated the law here, or that path is saying
Speaker 2: you've been here long enough, you're part of our society,
Speaker 2: you're working here, your kids go to school here, you
Speaker 2: name it, Yona house, whatever, We're going to make sure
Speaker 2: that there is now a pathway for you for citizenship.
Speaker 2: Think that's common sense. I think that's where most people are.
Speaker 2: I think what Donald Trump has been doing in his
Speaker 2: early days is actually, by the way, not meeting the
Speaker 2: numbers that Obama had. But he's doing a lot of
Speaker 2: pr around it. He's scaring the shit out of a
Speaker 2: lot of communities. He's pitting people against one another. I
Speaker 2: got no problem if you want to deport someone who
Speaker 2: broke the law while they're here, who harmed someone while
Speaker 2: they're here, you name it. But I do think you've
Speaker 2: got to have a comprehensive immigration solution, something I've been
Speaker 2: calling for for years.
Speaker 1: Hi, I'm sorry neither side is pulled off.
Speaker 2: And by the way, I think you also have to
Speaker 2: have a comprehensive immigration solution that acknowledges the workforce issues
Speaker 2: we have in this country, that actually listens to what
Speaker 2: farmers need in their communities, listens to what states need,
Speaker 2: listens to the way immigration immigrants have enhanced our economy
Speaker 2: in many ways, and I think you have to have
Speaker 2: that kind of honest conversation. Lawmakers have to come together
Speaker 2: and finally pass comprehensive immigration reform. We were on the
Speaker 2: one yard line about a year ago when Donald Trump
Speaker 2: said to the members of Congress, back out because he
Speaker 2: wants to use as we want to use. The issue
Speaker 2: goes back to the point I was making before. You
Speaker 2: got a whole bunch of Republican lawmakers who seemingly are
Speaker 2: swearing an oath to Donald Trump and not the Constitution
Speaker 2: every day. That's dangerous for our society. We do need
Speaker 2: comprehensive immigration reform. We need a secure border, and we
Speaker 2: need a pathway for those who were here.
Speaker 1: Today, Around ten thousand employees of the USA the Agency
Speaker 1: for International Development are expected to be fired, furloughed, or
Speaker 1: put on Leave your thoughts about his position.
Speaker 2: With that, you know, I don't know. I'm not talking
Speaker 2: your question, but I don't know enough of the specifics
Speaker 2: of what's going on there. But I do know this.
Speaker 2: Members of Congress voted for a bill that funded all
Speaker 2: these operations USAID. It was signed by the President of
Speaker 2: the United States. It is lawful. Whatever Donald Trump chooses
Speaker 2: to do it us ai D. It needs to be lawful.
Speaker 2: He can't just do this unilaterally given the laws that
Speaker 2: are in place going forward. If he wants to propose
Speaker 2: a new law, it does away with USAID or curtails
Speaker 2: its operations. That certainly is progative. He won the election,
Speaker 2: he gets to put his mark on things, but he's
Speaker 2: not a king. He doesn't get to just sign an
Speaker 2: executive order and say this is the way it's going
Speaker 2: to be. When there is a law in place. His
Speaker 2: executive order doesn't get to trump.
Speaker 1: He is the closest thing to a king. I certainly
Speaker 1: don't look at him that way, but he is the
Speaker 1: closest thing to a king. When you consider the Republicans
Speaker 1: and how they at his beck and call right now
Speaker 1: in the House, in the Senate, etc. It's like he's
Speaker 1: put people in there, and I brought up hag Seth.
Speaker 1: Obviously Matt Gatez didn't get the position that he was
Speaker 1: shooting for his Attorney General vam Bondi's now in there.
Speaker 1: You see a lot of these folks that are in
Speaker 1: office right now, and clearly the loyalty and the fealty
Speaker 1: to him appears to be his top priority. So certainly
Speaker 1: you're not gonna call him a king in a complementary way,
Speaker 1: particularly in a democratic society that is the United States
Speaker 1: of America. But nevertheless, the fear that people had seems
Speaker 1: a bit real because of the cachet and the power
Speaker 1: that he wields. And you have folks in this country
Speaker 1: who voted for who says that's exactly what we need.
Speaker 1: Because Washington has spent decades not getting things done. How
Speaker 1: do you argue against that thing.
Speaker 2: You got to unpack a lot of what you just said.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of different important threads there that I
Speaker 2: want to talk about. One, the president is using his
Speaker 2: hard power and soft power. He is flooding the zone.
Speaker 2: Whether you agree with his positions or not, and I
Speaker 2: don't agree with many of them. Putting that aside for
Speaker 2: a moment, you have to appreciate the fact that he's
Speaker 2: pushing as hard as he can, trying to expand his
Speaker 2: power as much as he can. If you look at
Speaker 2: a lot of what he's doing, though it goes against
Speaker 2: the bounds of the law, it is outside of what
Speaker 2: the law allows. And that is where these members of
Speaker 2: Congress and others who constitutionally are required to be a
Speaker 2: check on him, are not doing their jobs. There are
Speaker 2: laws in place that he can't get around just by
Speaker 2: signing an executive order or having a loud and angry
Speaker 2: press conference. He wants to change the law, he's got
Speaker 2: to go through that lawmaking process and get himself the
Speaker 2: votes in the House, get himself the votes in the Senate,
Speaker 2: and get a bill to his desk. I fault those
Speaker 2: members of Congress who are not standing up and doing
Speaker 2: their part as the American people who say we wanted
Speaker 2: this kind of change, we wanted this kind of disruption.
Speaker 2: I get that. I'm not denying you that. But the
Speaker 2: way we make change in this country, the way we
Speaker 2: disrupt things in this country, is by working within the
Speaker 2: bounds of the Constitution of the United States. And we
Speaker 2: have seen in the early days the President of the
Speaker 2: United States trying to go outside the bounds of the Constitution.
Speaker 2: He thought he could do away with birthright citizenship written
Speaker 2: in the Constitution by signing the executive order. A court
Speaker 2: slapped him down immediately. He thought he could freeze federal funding,
Speaker 2: funding that had been duly appropriated to the states. Quickly,
Speaker 2: there was an injunction put in place, saying he couldn't
Speaker 2: do that, So I guess, Look, I don't blame the
Speaker 2: guy for trying to expand his power, right, I don't
Speaker 2: agree with what he's trying to do. The folks that
Speaker 2: I've got a real problem with are the people who
Speaker 2: constitutionally are required to stand up to that.
Speaker 1: Who aren't Where the Democrat was the Democratic Party going
Speaker 1: to do about it? Because I've been on records saying
Speaker 1: who's the voice, who's the face of the Democratic Party?
Speaker 1: Because it takes a face and a voice to beat
Speaker 1: the kind of following he's built. I know he doesn't
Speaker 1: get to run for office again, even though you had
Speaker 1: some Republican representatives that wanted to push the third term
Speaker 1: for Donald Trump. Don't get me start with that nonsense.
Speaker 1: But considering j. D. Vance, as they considered Marco Ruby
Speaker 1: as the Secretary of State, considering the fact that they're
Speaker 1: now a part of that and a position, how he's
Speaker 1: positioning somebody to take the reins when he's gone. What
Speaker 1: is the Democratic Party's answer going to be that? I
Speaker 1: see Josha Pirou, I see Wes Moore. I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: lie to you. I'm just being honest. I'm allowed in
Speaker 1: my opinion. I don't see much else right now.
Speaker 2: First off, Wes is a great guy, and he's doing
Speaker 2: a great job as governor, and we're good buddies. I
Speaker 2: think you're wrong, respectfully, by saying who's the face of
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party and how is that person going to
Speaker 2: stop Donald Trump. There will be a face of the
Speaker 2: Democratic Party when the next presidential race rolls around and
Speaker 2: Democrats choose to nominate someone to fill that void. In
Speaker 2: the meantime, I think the answer is not who is
Speaker 2: the face, but who are the faces? Who are the
Speaker 2: people doing this work. I would say to you, respectfully,
Speaker 2: stop looking at DC all the time. Look to what's
Speaker 2: happening in the states. Look to how Democrats who are
Speaker 2: put in positions to govern are governing responsibly. Look at
Speaker 2: the fact that we've got democratic governors in Kentucky and
Speaker 2: Kansas to pretty republican states. Look at the fact that
Speaker 2: in those three swing states Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Donald Trump
Speaker 2: won all three. There's democratic governors in those three states.
Speaker 2: The point I'm trying to make to you, stephen A
Speaker 2: is there's not going to be one person that rises
Speaker 2: up tomorrow that becomes that voice tomorrow. But there is
Speaker 2: a lot of good things happening amongst some Democratic leaders
Speaker 2: in the States that I think we should be paying
Speaker 2: attention to, who I think show a common sense, rational
Speaker 2: approach to governing that can be really formative for the
Speaker 2: conversation the Democratic Party is going to have to.
Speaker 1: Have going forward. I'll end this with the last couple
Speaker 1: of questions and thank you so much for your time.
Speaker 1: I'm a sports guy, Yeah, me too, and I think
Speaker 1: about competition, and so when I think about Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about what does it take to beat him.
Speaker 1: I'm not talking about an individual per se as somebody
Speaker 1: somebody's being the king or the king make or anything
Speaker 1: like that. I understand it's going to take a party.
Speaker 1: I understand it's going to be a collective effort. I
Speaker 1: understand one person can't do it all. But I watched
Speaker 1: this guy stroll down some escalators in twenty fifteen, and
Speaker 1: there hasn't been a Republican that can touch him in
Speaker 1: ten years. And so I'm saying to myself, in order
Speaker 1: to beat him, who in the party can resonate with
Speaker 1: the American people to have that kind of impact. It
Speaker 1: seems to me that it would be somebody that has
Speaker 1: a national profile because the exception work somebody may do
Speaker 1: locally isn't enough to offset the cachet that he has built.
Speaker 1: That's where I'm coming from.
Speaker 2: He has no doubt been a dominant force in our
Speaker 2: politics for the last ten years. My kids sort of
Speaker 2: awareness of politics in their early years in life are
Speaker 2: going to be shaped by Donald Trump. I don't think
Speaker 2: that's a particularly good thing, but it's the reality. And
Speaker 2: he has certainly taken over the Republican Party. Now he's
Speaker 2: not running again, nope, and there will be a backlash
Speaker 2: to the manner, to the way in which he is governing,
Speaker 2: the fact that he hasn't brought costs down, the fact
Speaker 2: that with some of the things he says, he actually
Speaker 2: potentially makes us less safer around the world. I understand
Speaker 2: people want disruption, but when they begin to see the
Speaker 2: effects of that disruption on their lives, there will be
Speaker 2: a backlash to that. Let's take tariffs as one example.
Speaker 1: I was going to bring that up.
Speaker 2: He proposed to put a twenty five percent tariff on
Speaker 2: our two biggest trading partners, Canada and Mexico. That means
Speaker 2: you're paying twenty five percent more for most of the
Speaker 2: stuff you buy. He promised to lower cost, that's going
Speaker 2: to raise costs. There's an effect to that.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: He walked that back like he does most things. But
Speaker 2: we'll see if he actually goes forward with that in
Speaker 2: thirty days. My point to you is there will be
Speaker 2: a backlash to that. And the answer is not a
Speaker 2: Democrat who can ride down an escalator, an elevator, or
Speaker 2: whatever the hell they're can ride down, but actually Democrats
Speaker 2: who have governed with common sense, who have put points
Speaker 2: on the board, and who can share a vision for
Speaker 2: this country that's actually going to bring people back together
Speaker 2: after Donald Trump has spent the last decade or more
Speaker 2: dividing them.
Speaker 1: Is that answer? Within the two party system, what if
Speaker 1: somebody said, doesn't need to be a Democrat, can it
Speaker 1: be an independent? What do you say to that?
Speaker 2: I think there's a conversation, you know, we've been having
Speaker 2: for a long time. Probably the most notable independent in
Speaker 2: sort of recent memory would be that Ross Perot. And
Speaker 2: so maybe there will be a third party or an
Speaker 2: independent that comes along. I got to tell you something, man,
Speaker 2: for all its challenges, right now, I'm proud to be
Speaker 2: a Democrat, and I'm proud to be yeah, I am,
Speaker 2: and I'm proud to be a voice within the Democratic
Speaker 2: Party that is hopefully going to heal it from what
Speaker 2: we just went through, and it's going to help move
Speaker 2: it along in a way that broadens the conversation to
Speaker 2: include more people back to what I was saying before.
Speaker 2: Broadens it to people that have a high school degree
Speaker 2: and chose not to go to college because we gave
Speaker 2: that person some resources so they could go learn to
Speaker 2: be a welder. Broadens it to include more of our
Speaker 2: farmers because we invested in our heartland and did what
Speaker 2: we needed to do to help our farm put food
Speaker 2: on the table for their families and grow their farming operations.
Speaker 2: Broadens it to include people who right now feel like
Speaker 2: our party hasn't been talking to them. That's what we've
Speaker 2: been doing in Pennsylvania. And while I recognize we got
Speaker 2: to go through some change and some learning that Monday
Speaker 2: morning process we were talking about before, excuse my voice,
Speaker 2: we have got to, I think, remain committed to what's
Speaker 2: at the core of our party, which is trying to
Speaker 2: look out for others, help people, lift people up, give
Speaker 2: all people a shot. That's how I'm trying to govern
Speaker 2: in Pennsylvania, and that's why I think we need more
Speaker 2: of in our party.
Speaker 1: My last question to you, Governor, as we sit here
Speaker 1: right now, you have a lot of American people who
Speaker 1: feel the damage to this country is on the fringes,
Speaker 1: MAGA write extreme progressive, left, woke culture, cancel culture, etc.
Speaker 1: They think about a centrist, whether it's left or right,
Speaker 1: because they think that's where it meet. Of the people
Speaker 1: lie people who are willing to compromise or are open minded,
Speaker 1: as you articulated a little while ago, open the listening
Speaker 1: to other folks. Maybe you've made a mistake here or
Speaker 1: there that that thinking might might might be pervasive to
Speaker 1: some degree at times. But they think about contrary to
Speaker 1: what you think. They don't think about Steven Aye Smith.
Speaker 1: I don't care what the pole say. Steven THEE. Smith's
Speaker 1: not run office, Okay, Okay, I'm not knowledgeable or nothing.
Speaker 1: That's not my life was for you think, don't even
Speaker 1: think about it. I'm not qualified, Okay, but you are.
Speaker 1: And there's a lot of people that look at Joshapiro
Speaker 1: and they say the country deserves more than him being
Speaker 1: in just Pennsylvania. We need him for the United States
Speaker 1: of America. What do you have to say about that.
Speaker 2: That's a very humbling thing you just said. But I
Speaker 2: also think, respectfully, you're wrong on something.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: I talk to people all the time across Pennsylvania and
Speaker 2: more and more across the country. I don't hear most
Speaker 2: folks saying to me, oh, I'm on the left, I'm
Speaker 2: on the right, I'm on this part, I'm this. I
Speaker 2: think where most people are is just their common sense.
Speaker 2: They want their lives to be better. They want to
Speaker 2: know that the people who are serving them are looking
Speaker 2: out for their interests. They don't need to agree with
Speaker 2: me ten out of ten times, but if they know
Speaker 2: like I got their back, I got compassion in my heart,
Speaker 2: I'm fighting for them every day. That's good enough for
Speaker 2: most folks. And so I disagree with you a little bit.
Speaker 2: Is I don't think this is about targeting the left
Speaker 2: or targeting the right. I think that's actually disrespectful to
Speaker 2: attack people because they support Donald Trump or they support
Speaker 2: on the left. I never slice and dice people like
Speaker 2: that or attack them for who they support. I think
Speaker 2: what we need more of in this country is common sense,
Speaker 2: people who are willing to have tough conversations with people
Speaker 2: in another party or with a different perspective than them.
Speaker 2: Try and surround myself with people on my senior team,
Speaker 2: in my cabinet and elsewhere who disagree with me on issues,
Speaker 2: have different life experiences than I do. We're raised differently
Speaker 2: than me, because that forces me to think about things
Speaker 2: in a different way. And ultimately, past policies do things
Speaker 2: take steps that are looking out for more people than
Speaker 2: maybe I was just aware of when I began my
Speaker 2: public service career. So to get back to what you said,
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I'm humbled when when folks acknowledge the
Speaker 2: work we're doing in Pennsylvania. But I don't think it's
Speaker 2: left right center. I think it's more like who's on
Speaker 2: your side, who's looking out for you, who's got the
Speaker 2: skills to get shipped.
Speaker 1: Down for you? Right? But the party makes the politics
Speaker 1: make you pick a side come election day. I think
Speaker 1: that's the way I'm getting in.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's right. The politics makes you pick
Speaker 2: a party when you register, okay, right, but come election day,
Speaker 2: and I'm proof of this. We had a whole lot
Speaker 2: of Republicans who voted for me. I think what people
Speaker 2: look to when they finally get in that ballot box
Speaker 2: is who's gonna fight for me, who's going to look
Speaker 2: out for me, Who's going to actually solve the problems
Speaker 2: that matter most to me. It's one of the beefs
Speaker 2: I've got with Trump. You know, he's focused on so
Speaker 2: many things other than actually reducing costs. He's focused on
Speaker 2: pitting Americans against one another instead of actually saying, Hey,
Speaker 2: I got all of you guys, I'm the president for everybody.
Speaker 2: I'm now gonna help reduce your costs. I'm gonna help
Speaker 2: make you safe. I'm going to help you know, create
Speaker 2: a job for you. I try and do it in
Speaker 2: a way that brings people together. I don't think this
Speaker 2: is an issue where you're only dealing with your side
Speaker 2: of the field. I think you got to you gotta
Speaker 2: work work the whole field.
Speaker 1: We are here super Bowl week. I can't thank you
Speaker 1: enough for giving me your time to be sitting with
Speaker 1: the governor for the last hour. I can't say enough
Speaker 1: how grateful I am for your time. I really enjoyed
Speaker 1: this conversation and thank you for the bottom of mine.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm grateful to be here with you. I'm grateful
Speaker 2: for the conversation and I'm grateful that you are willing
Speaker 2: to use your voice outside of your comfort zone, if
Speaker 2: you will, outside of sports, which obviously you're a fantastic
Speaker 2: and I enjoy that you care about this country, you
Speaker 2: care about the Democratic Party, and I may not like
Speaker 2: everything you say, but you're kicking people in the ass
Speaker 2: and forcing people to think about things a little bit differently.
Speaker 2: And I appreciate that about you. And it's time to
Speaker 2: be here with you.
Speaker 1: See. Thank you so much. Anytime, I'm always here for you.
Speaker 1: Thankk you so much, appreciate it. The Governor of the
Speaker 1: Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, mister jos Shapiro, right here with Stephen A. Smith. Wow,
Speaker 1: it was a privilege, y'all. Anytime you get to sit
Speaker 1: down with a governor of a state, particularly a state
Speaker 1: as formidable as Pennsylvania. What can you say? Josh Shapiro
Speaker 1: and a lot of people's eyes should have been the
Speaker 1: vice presidential nominee for the Democratic Party. Had he been
Speaker 1: the vice presidential nominee, who knows, it might have spelled
Speaker 1: more success for Kamala Harris. But that didn't happen, and
Speaker 1: so we move on. Who knows what the future is
Speaker 1: for him With the future potential lives. But one thing,
Speaker 1: you know, just listening to him, hearing how he thinks,
Speaker 1: there is no doubt that if he isn't, he certainly
Speaker 1: should be a prime candidate for the presidency of the
Speaker 1: United States of America in the year twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 1: We shall see in the years to come. I don't
Speaker 1: think this will be the last time you'll be hearing
Speaker 1: from him. It's certainly not the last time I intend
Speaker 1: to hear from him, and by the way, all of
Speaker 1: us should want to hear more from him based on
Speaker 1: the things that we heard him say today. That's it
Speaker 1: for this edition of the stephen A. Smith Show. I
Speaker 1: hope y'all enjoyed that conversation as much as I did,
Speaker 1: because I loved it, and I'm hoping to have more
Speaker 1: of it. Until next time, everybody, stephen A Signing off
Speaker 1: base of love,