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Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for

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Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here's your host, four team

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Speaker 1: year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer Anius Williams. As

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Speaker 1: we celebrate the NFL's hundreds of season, a series of

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Speaker 1: round tables were conducted around the two thousand and eighteen postseason.

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Speaker 1: Consistent of a staggering array of NFL greats, these round

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Speaker 1: tables talked about the NFL's past glory, its present stars

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Speaker 1: in its promising future. Let's listen in okay, guys, this

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Speaker 1: is the hundred anniversary. I'm sitting here with some of

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Speaker 1: the best receivers that ever played a game. We got

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Speaker 1: Michael Irvine, Steve Smith, Steve Largent, to watch Steve Largen

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Speaker 1: and see what he did, watching him in Seattle and

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Speaker 1: watching YouTube battle and the Super Bowl always came through.

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Speaker 1: And now I get to set at the table with

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Speaker 1: some of the players that I prayed about, just having

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Speaker 1: a inkling of ability, like you guys, to be Steve

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Speaker 1: Large and to be Jerry Rice occasionally catch a slant

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Speaker 1: and b Michael Irving. Uh So that that's for me.

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Speaker 1: I honestly, I don't believe I'm a great. I just

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Speaker 1: get the opportunity to be around greatness and hopefully one

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Speaker 1: day just being a conversation. So this is an honor

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Speaker 1: and privileged for me, Steve, And I'll tell you what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. It reminds me so much. And you'll

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Speaker 1: see it in a few short years when we're in

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Speaker 1: the Hall of Fame and you see all of those

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Speaker 1: guys that you watch all your life, man, and that

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Speaker 1: that you wanted to be like, and you're here. You're

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Speaker 1: playing the game because of what they did and and

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Speaker 1: be here. Man, I I too love Steve Lodger hed

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Speaker 1: Jerry Rice and his red ending his white jersey in

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Speaker 1: my locker and I told Jerry that's story old time

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Speaker 1: ago when we first got a chance to play in

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Speaker 1: the Pro Bowl, Agather, I was like, man, I had

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Speaker 1: you with my locker, but I can't believe in lining

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Speaker 1: up in the Pro Bowl. But that's not all what

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Speaker 1: you said, No, not at all what you said. Michael

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Speaker 1: still up as he said, man, I looked so good

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Speaker 1: and I remember you doing that right, and he still it. Yeah, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was his first time. Jared I really had a

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Speaker 1: conversation to it and Jerry, he's so competitive now he's

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Speaker 1: so competitive and you're telling you my first day said

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Speaker 1: good job, good job, we competed this year, he said,

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Speaker 1: But I'm getting ridy all ready. I'm already training. It

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Speaker 1: was the promo, like what you were You training for

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Speaker 1: next year already, and this is the promo and I

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Speaker 1: want to have a good time. Let's just chill out,

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Speaker 1: and hey, I'm already training for next year. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: tell you right now, I'm gonna come back. Well. I

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Speaker 1: had a different experience than you guys did. I was

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Speaker 1: actually drafted in the fourth round by the Oilers and

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Speaker 1: bum Phillips called me into his office and says, Steve,

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Speaker 1: we have all the receivers we need here in Houston

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna let you go and good luck to you.

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Speaker 1: And so I thought my career was over before it

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Speaker 1: even started. And I got a call from Seattle about

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Speaker 1: two days later and they said, hey, if you want

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Speaker 1: another chance, we'll give it to you. And so I

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Speaker 1: flew up to Seattle. I brought a bag about this big,

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Speaker 1: about that tall, and I thought, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I can make this team either. But I

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Speaker 1: went up there and made the team. And uh, I

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Speaker 1: think that really colored my experience in the NFL. Took

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Speaker 1: a great deal because I never took anything for granted,

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Speaker 1: because when you have you have some shocking experience like that,

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Speaker 1: it makes you get real real fast. Steve, I think

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Speaker 1: I remember just watching you and and you were just

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Speaker 1: a tough guy on the football field. You were nasty. God.

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Speaker 1: This guy he's not really a big guy, but he

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Speaker 1: owns it and the route running in the hands, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was really amazed by it. And Michael, let's go back.

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Speaker 1: I used to always compare myself to Michael. I would

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Speaker 1: watch everything he was doing on the football field. If

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Speaker 1: he had ten or more receptions, if he had over

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Speaker 1: a hundred seven yards, I wanted to have a better day,

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Speaker 1: you know, Steve, watching you, you know, it's like you

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Speaker 1: were angry. The thing is, it was not about the

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Speaker 1: defensive back. It was about you know, what you were

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Speaker 1: putting on yourself to go out and excel and be

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Speaker 1: exceptional on the football field. And that's why receivers, it's

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Speaker 1: like we're competing between ourselves because you want to be

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Speaker 1: great on that given day. To be honest with you,

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Speaker 1: I never thought that I would be able to play

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Speaker 1: professional football. Do something that I really love to play

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Speaker 1: with a team that had God Joe was God Joe Montana.

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Speaker 1: It was just unbelievable to be able to go to

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Speaker 1: San Francisco and play on an exceptional team like that,

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Speaker 1: and it's just something I'll never forget. I was never

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Speaker 1: the fastest guy. So so watching large Steve Lard, Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, you know because because everybody talked about speed

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Speaker 1: wide receiver speed, and I can't tell you it hunted

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Speaker 1: me because man, I can't run. I got I can't

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Speaker 1: run the NFL. And then Jerry, I remember you getting

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Speaker 1: drafted and said, well, I he only rand this time,

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Speaker 1: he ran that time, and then I will be watching.

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Speaker 1: I was like, we ain't nobody ever running them back.

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Speaker 1: I look at dude blind man. You know it encouraged me.

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Speaker 1: I said, okay, I thought, just about speed, I can't

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Speaker 1: play in this league. These guys are tearing up the

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Speaker 1: league and they're not running for threes and already, so

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Speaker 1: so I could play in the league. I can't tell

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Speaker 1: you how much that helped me. We were not like

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Speaker 1: this guy because you were fast. You were killing fast

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Speaker 1: and strong. I mean, you say you weren't fast, But

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Speaker 1: then when I watched your film, you know, despite the

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Speaker 1: railer was on either you know, Beta or VHS. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I know, we okay, al right, here's the thing though,

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Speaker 1: you know we would go to the store. You know

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Speaker 1: they had the wire receivers or the or the follies

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Speaker 1: or the highlights. Yeah. I looked forward to or not

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Speaker 1: emulated and tried to mimic the catchers the toe tapping.

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Speaker 1: Steve larger over the shoulder and he catched the fade

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Speaker 1: and he just keep it tight right there and had

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Speaker 1: that eight right. One of the coolest things when I

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Speaker 1: was with Caroline, I got them to give me some

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Speaker 1: tape and I studied you on one particular route, is

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Speaker 1: how you ran the ten yard come back. He was

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Speaker 1: uncoverable on the ten yard come back. When they said

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Speaker 1: what route you want to run? I looked at him, like,

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Speaker 1: come back, you want to go now? I want to

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Speaker 1: come back. You do everything and just move them you're

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Speaker 1: running in you just take that dollar, stop on again,

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Speaker 1: give him a hunter pennies, just change and come back

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Speaker 1: and catch it high and tight. And so those are

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Speaker 1: the things like when I say that I tried to

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Speaker 1: marry you guys, I studied, I got a question. This

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Speaker 1: is one question, and I I start with Steve first.

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Speaker 1: How did you do it in the equipment? That's reward

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Speaker 1: the clique because they had astro turf. Yeah, looking at

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Speaker 1: the technology of the equipment, Now, what do you think

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Speaker 1: about it? Well, I'll tell you it's it's been vastly

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Speaker 1: improved for sure. And the fields, for one, the astro

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Speaker 1: turf fields are much better today than they were when

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Speaker 1: we played. Oh yeah, we basically played on asphalt and

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Speaker 1: then they had a thin piece of rubber and then

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Speaker 1: the turf was on top of that and that was it.

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Speaker 1: So there was no roll it out. Yeah, I'd go

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Speaker 1: through a season and my my elbows would all have

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Speaker 1: scabs and stuff like that, and sticking to the sheets

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Speaker 1: when you wake up in the morning. It was bad.

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Speaker 1: What about the cleats though, Well, cleats were not very

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Speaker 1: good either, especially when they first started wearing turf shoes.

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Speaker 1: They didn't even know how to make a good turf cleat.

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Speaker 1: You tear your feet up. That's that's the thing I

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Speaker 1: always looked out for was my feet. I could play

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Speaker 1: hurt with a lot of things, but I couldn't play

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Speaker 1: hurt with my feet. Even though astro turf what I did.

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Speaker 1: I wore tennis shoes. It would grabs, It grab you

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Speaker 1: and stuff. You change the way you running the route

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Speaker 1: from from natural turf to astral turf, you change the

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Speaker 1: way you run. Some routes absolutely grabs so much. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I got a question for you guys. How did you

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Speaker 1: guys wear gloves? At the end of my career, there

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Speaker 1: were still not gloves that you would ever wear in

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Speaker 1: a game. But did you wear gloves consistently in games?

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Speaker 1: Because I tell you those gloves they were today gloves

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Speaker 1: that they are different. I'm gonna tell you guys that Mr.

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Speaker 1: Valley State University, we couldn't afford gloves, Okay, So I

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Speaker 1: was just like, you know, bare handed and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Then when I got to the NFL, I started wearing

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Speaker 1: gloves and but you know, it was a different type

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Speaker 1: of texture and all that, but gloves because I didn't

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Speaker 1: wear them in college either. I remember coming into Dallas

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Speaker 1: and I talked so much noise coming in on me here.

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Speaker 1: Now we're going to win the Super Bowl. I can

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Speaker 1: turn catch a bb in the dark. Somebody turn out

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Speaker 1: the light and shoot a BB gun. I got my

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Speaker 1: first training camp and dropped everything I mean, I dropped

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Speaker 1: big thing. I lost my confidence ever some walls man

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Speaker 1: he played me, came up like you go jamming. Then

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Speaker 1: he backed off and then snug jim. Oh my god,

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Speaker 1: I ain't never been to my feet. I said, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is a different level. I wouldn't got my eyes checked.

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Speaker 1: They were checking my head. Then I went to the gloves.

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Speaker 1: It started gaining my confidence back, and I played in

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Speaker 1: the gloves every since then. But have you guys ever

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Speaker 1: lost confidence? You know? Because for me when I first

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Speaker 1: came in, I had so many drops and I was like,

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Speaker 1: what is going on? Because yeah, because I knew how

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Speaker 1: to cast the football to the football, but there was

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Speaker 1: so much going on mentally where it just took away

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Speaker 1: from my focus on the field, you know, cassing the ball.

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Speaker 1: I would do it doing practice, and then once I

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Speaker 1: got in the ball game, I was way too anxious.

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Speaker 1: I had to fight through that adversity. But once I

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Speaker 1: did that, then I said, okay, I got this. Now.

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Speaker 1: I tell young guys all the time, if you're playing

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Speaker 1: the position wide received, if you leave that huddle and

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Speaker 1: you're thinking about, okay, what route do I run, you

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Speaker 1: already lost. You have to leave the huddle fan, how

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Speaker 1: do I win on this route? Soon? Did you hear?

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Speaker 1: To play? The route has to be automatic. That's why

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Speaker 1: when we play in the Pro Bowl and we were

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Speaker 1: put in the West Coast office, I was like, oh

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Speaker 1: my god, this is a lot three jets. So I

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Speaker 1: got a numbers guys, right right, I'm a numerous guys,

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Speaker 1: so none of this none. So he's just said he

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Speaker 1: would call out to play three jets. Scared look at me?

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Speaker 1: Say two routes? Right? They called, look at me for

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Speaker 1: a route? I said, okay, I can do that. You know.

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Speaker 1: Let me ask you guys this though. Do you guys

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Speaker 1: think that the game is in a good place right now?

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Speaker 1: You know, the didn't want to make the game safer,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, I was like, man, theyn't making the game,

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Speaker 1: so if I can't take it. Until my son started playing,

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Speaker 1: you gotta make this game better. You know, it was okay,

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Speaker 1: they were making it so for everybody else, And then

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Speaker 1: my son started playing, I said, yeah, they got to

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Speaker 1: make it safer, and so I was happy about that.

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Speaker 1: I love the game. Today they're throwing the ball more.

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Speaker 1: It's a lot a lot shorter routes, so a guy

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Speaker 1: will have an average of seven yards of catch today.

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Speaker 1: Over my whole career for fourteen years, I averaged sixteen

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Speaker 1: yards of catch. And you don't find very many receivers

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Speaker 1: today that average sixteen yards of catch. They're catching seven

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Speaker 1: eight yards of catch. We had to run routes at

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Speaker 1: certain depths and be at certain places at certain times,

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Speaker 1: and that was everything about playing wide receivers. Being at

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Speaker 1: the right place at the right time, give your quarterback

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Speaker 1: a good target, and then catch the ball. The game

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Speaker 1: has changed a little bit. You guys went against corners

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Speaker 1: that followed you everywhere the backfield. If then, I always say,

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Speaker 1: if you lined up in the park a lot, he

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Speaker 1: would be the park a lot of teams. Right, Oh, Jerry,

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Speaker 1: come in, here's your parking ticket, right. You know, so

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Speaker 1: I think the game is changed to that degree. Us

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Speaker 1: just reminding me on something. Dione used to follow me

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Speaker 1: all over the field and we were in Atlanta, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: and right before the snap the ball, he wanted to

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Speaker 1: shake my head. Come on, Stevens, Steve, you know back

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Speaker 1: in the day, here's the deal. We can. We can

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Speaker 1: be friends after the ball game, but doing the actual

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Speaker 1: game were enemy. So he's trying to shake my hand

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Speaker 1: and I'm just slapping his hand away. I'm like, get

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Speaker 1: away for me right now. It's you know, it's about

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Speaker 1: to go down. It was time to go out and

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Speaker 1: just do battle. And I wanted to be the best

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Speaker 1: on that given day. If I had a game where

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Speaker 1: I had round ten receptions two hundred yards, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to come back the next week and have a better game.

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Speaker 1: So it's like, as receivers, I think we just put

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Speaker 1: pressure on ourselves. If they talk, nois at you. Man,

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Speaker 1: first thing you do, you want to drop six on him.

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Speaker 1: Then you're gonna drop six again. Then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: the game is completely quiet, but you have in your locker.

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Speaker 1: I was different. Actually, I wanted to get him in

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Speaker 1: a run day. If I had a guy who was talking, Man,

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Speaker 1: that first run play, you're gonna hit him in his mouth.

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Speaker 1: Everything the referee cannot save you. I will get done

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Speaker 1: with you when I am done with you. When I talked,

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Speaker 1: I really wasn't talking to the corner. He had the

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Speaker 1: opportunity when he guarded me to hear me talk myself

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Speaker 1: into what I felt like. I said. I would say

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Speaker 1: that defensive coordinator believes he can cover me. One on

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Speaker 1: one and when I was spinning ball, I was spinning like,

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Speaker 1: why did they think that? Dare them to disrespect you

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Speaker 1: like that? Yes, I'm five nine, I get all that,

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Speaker 1: but how did you think this was possible? When I

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Speaker 1: had a guy one time talked to me, said something

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Speaker 1: and I said, looked at him and said, sir, go

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Speaker 1: ask your defensive coordinator are you allowed to cover me?

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Speaker 1: One on one? And then get back to me. So

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Speaker 1: a few plays go, series comes back and I said, um,

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Speaker 1: did you talk to your guy? His next word was

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Speaker 1: blankety blank? I said. I looked at him and said,

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Speaker 1: I guess said no, huh. I love playing a physical game.

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Speaker 1: My first preseason game, I'm playing against the Raiders and

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Speaker 1: Mike Hanes was not there and it is a run

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Speaker 1: play all the way on the other side and I

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Speaker 1: sprint and I called and I'm walking back to the hottle,

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Speaker 1: He's ready, hhoop you away, Crystal. Preseason game. You don't

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Speaker 1: do that, And I was like, whoa. I guess. You know.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to let people know that I'm in this

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Speaker 1: league now and I'm not playing pay the cake. I

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Speaker 1: remember I went up against those guys and that's the haze,

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Speaker 1: he had all this all over him and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Then you know, you know, he's down in front of me, man,

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Speaker 1: and it's just like he's drooling at the mouth. I

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Speaker 1: was like, what is going on? Let me ask you, Steve,

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Speaker 1: talking about what drives you crazier or things? Being at

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Speaker 1: this table. Being a non African American wide receiver, did

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Speaker 1: you have to deal with people short changing or even

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Speaker 1: also so racism? Did you ever experience that? And if

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Speaker 1: you did, how was it. I really didn't experience it

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Speaker 1: very much in my career, or maybe I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: just ignored it because I don't remember it very often.

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Speaker 1: But there was one time we're getting ready to play

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Speaker 1: the Cleveland Browns and they had two cornerbacks that were

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Speaker 1: very good cornerbacks, and they just talked trash the entire game.

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Speaker 1: You think everybody's going to know, Well, I'm sorry if

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Speaker 1: they do, but yeah, and they said in the paper

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Speaker 1: before the game. But to me, it was never a

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Speaker 1: black white issue. It was just a team versus team.

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Speaker 1: I'm glad to say we won that game and I

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Speaker 1: had a very good game. Who are some of the

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Speaker 1: guys that you guys watch growing up? I can tell

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Speaker 1: you a guy jumps into my head right away when

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Speaker 1: you asked the question, and that's Fred Bullitt and cough

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Speaker 1: and I used to just study what he did. He

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Speaker 1: actually counted his steps. I just found it really interesting

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Speaker 1: the way he played the game. But he could catch

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Speaker 1: the ball like nobody's been business. And I always came

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Speaker 1: up with clutch plays. It was most vaporable player in

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Speaker 1: the Super Bowl for me, you know, watching Steve Large

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Speaker 1: and uh Jul Pierres and Vance Juan Stalwarth. I would

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Speaker 1: try to emulate those guys like Lance One, how he

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Speaker 1: could control his body. It was just beautiful, man. And

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Speaker 1: for me because I started actually playing tight in for

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Speaker 1: a while. And I'm gonna tell you, man, I love

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Speaker 1: Kellen Winslow growing up in Miami watching player against the

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Speaker 1: mind of the Dolphins. And he had a great game

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Speaker 1: and and and he was exhausted. It was so hot

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Speaker 1: down it would have to carry carry him as the field.

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Speaker 1: He's cramping up, he's heard and they go first down,

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Speaker 1: second down, and it's third and nine again, he comes

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Speaker 1: running back out. He would catch that third and out.

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Speaker 1: They have to carry him off the field again. This

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Speaker 1: was the most incredible game i'd ever seen he won

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Speaker 1: number eight. I put on number eight because I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be Kelly Winslow man. It was phenomenal man. Who's

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Speaker 1: the current player that can just continue this legacy? There's

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Speaker 1: so many physically gifted guys out there. I mean I

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Speaker 1: look at guys like Julio Jones and I said, Wow,

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Speaker 1: when you talk about God, give to the position, big, tall, fluid, fast,

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Speaker 1: I mean, catch anything and catch any route. If if

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Speaker 1: you had the big guy and then you had a small,

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Speaker 1: fast guy, yeah, this was the big guy in the

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Speaker 1: fast guy, all in one guy. I mean, he's just

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Speaker 1: a phenomenal guy. But the guy I don't think give

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Speaker 1: a lot of people give a lot of credit to it.

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Speaker 1: I just love man. It's Michael Thomas, phenomenal player, physical,

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Speaker 1: he loves the game, and everybody knows he's really basically

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Speaker 1: the only asset that wide receiver and you still can't

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Speaker 1: stop him. And I think that's what a playmaker is.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to get the ball. Your mom

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Speaker 1: danced sister, brother cousin. He said, nephew, you know they're

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Speaker 1: throwing me this ball and you still can't stop it.

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Speaker 1: It's about imposing your will and those young men definitely

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Speaker 1: do that about you, Mrs Smith. DeAndre Hopkins. I love

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Speaker 1: the way he runs, runs great routes. He's played with quarterbacks,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, his production never drops. So I just love

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Speaker 1: his body control, his ability to catch the ball anywhere

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Speaker 1: on the field. Beckham, I mean Old Dale. What what

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Speaker 1: he brings to the game. Very competitive runs, good routes.

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Speaker 1: You can tell that he's that playmaker on that football field.

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Speaker 1: I tell you the guy that just jumps out in

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Speaker 1: my mind is the guy that I think emulated your career,

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Speaker 1: and that's Larry Fitzgerald. A guy that's done it year

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Speaker 1: in year out. Good quarterback, bad quarterback. He's gonna catch

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Speaker 1: a hunter balls. He's gonna be down there blocking for

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Speaker 1: his running back. He's gonna be encouraging his teammates. He's

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Speaker 1: doing everything that I think you need to do to

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Speaker 1: be a great NFL player, and he's done it for

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Speaker 1: a long time. Now, well you heard a fund the best.

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Speaker 1: Michael Irvian, Steve Spith, Steve Large, Jerry Rice. This has

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Speaker 1: been the NFL Legends Podcast. To provide feedback or request

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Speaker 1: a topic for discussion, email us at NFL Legends at

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Speaker 1: NFL dot com