1 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Today is a particularly special day for me as one 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: of my very very best friends, Jeremy King, is our 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: guest on table four with his restaurants, to name just 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: a few, the Capriests, the Ivy, the Wolseley, now the 5 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: Park and the Arlington and soon Simpson's in the Strand. 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: Jeremy has given London and in fact the world joy, 7 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: stability and celebration. He has given me the same. Jeremy's 8 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: brilliant new book without reservations, Lessons from a Life in Restaurants, 9 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: is beautifully written. It's on the table with us now 10 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about this restaurants, memories, the future 11 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: and much much more. A special day indeed, and here 12 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: we are. It's so good to have you here. We've 13 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: been waiting for this, and because we said we were 14 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: going to do it when you finished the book, and 15 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: you did take kind of a long time to finish 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:59,279 Speaker 1: this book. So we are rather so happy to have you. 17 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: That makes a great restaurant. 18 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 2: Well, it's a question when I would do inductions and staff, 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 2: they often say, one of the most important elements of 20 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 2: a great restaurant, and people generally, and of course they 21 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 2: expect us to say why the location, the chef might 22 00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 2: be the Matro Hotel of any number of those things. 23 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: And I always say, no, two elements, and it's heart 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 2: and soul. And people look at me and say, well, 25 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 2: what does that mean? And I said, well, it's difficult 26 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 2: to define. But the heart and soul that we feel 27 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 2: in a restaurant comes from the fact that the best 28 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 2: restaurants are run by proprietors like yourself, and the best 29 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: proprietors that open restaurants they would like to go to themselves, 30 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: and then you hope that enough other people would bring. 31 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: And we are both restaurateurs. I often talk about that 32 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: when I correct people sometimes, which is a bit nasty pedantic. 33 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 2: When somebody very successful in the restaurant business, for instance, 34 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 2: is described as a restaurateur, I said, no, they're restaurant owners. 35 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 2: Restaurateurs do it from the floor. Restaurant owners do it 36 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 2: from the boardroom and the different shows, and it particularly 37 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: the case with the River Cafe. And I like to 38 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 2: think with my own restaurants because the staff feel it 39 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 2: and the staff know it. And I had a wonderful 40 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: example recently is because we were recruiting for Simpsons, we 41 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: made an offer to somebody in a group restaurant and 42 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: they accepted, and we're going through the process and their 43 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: current employers suddenly realized what was going on, came back 44 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 2: and counteroffered with a lot more money, and they said no, 45 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: because I just received a card from Jeremy King welcoming me. 46 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:04,200 Speaker 2: Nobody even knows my name in this company, really, and 47 00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: that's what counts. And I think it's heart and soul, 48 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: two good ingredients. 49 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: And when you when the last part of the book 50 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: is about the future, it's about Simpsons, So tell us, 51 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: tell us. 52 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: Thank you well. Simpsons is a twenty five year journey. 53 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: When we sold Caprice Holdings Caprice IV Hikers, Simpsons was 54 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: coming up on the market in two thousand and tried 55 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 2: and tried to get it, and it was all across 56 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 2: the papers, in fact, and then I tried again in 57 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: two thousand and eight and twenty and fifteen and they 58 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,160 Speaker 2: did a version and then it closed it at with 59 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 2: COVID and I put in a successful offer. I think 60 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: it was Spring twenty two, and we will be opening 61 00:03:57,160 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 2: effectually spring twenty six. Has been quite a journey of 62 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: quite labor of love, and the date keeps changing. People 63 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: get a bit frustrated about it. And we've had everything 64 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 2: from the main contract to going bust and so on. 65 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,280 Speaker 2: But a lot of these things in life, sometimes you 66 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 2: forget just how brilliant it is. And I think with 67 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 2: all of us, we see things much better through other 68 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 2: people's eyes. And I remember taking a hotelier around a 69 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 2: friend and showing around in the early days, and he 70 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: was very silent, and I was at the point because 71 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: I was fighting on the contract. We had delays, as problems, 72 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: all sorts of things, investments and so and I think 73 00:04:46,640 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 2: I was a bit jaded. And then he went around 74 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 2: and started and I was thinking, because I was in 75 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: that mood, I thought, oh, he thinks I'm stupid, he 76 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: thinks it's wrong. And he looked around and he said, Jeremy, 77 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: and and I assume I can say this. This is 78 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 2: fucking fantastic, fucking fantastic, and kept saying it. 79 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 3: I thought, oh, yeah, maybe it is. It really is. 80 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 2: And it restored my faith and often we rely on 81 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: other people at our low points or whatever, just to 82 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:23,280 Speaker 2: restore us. I went, I, we're really close. We should 83 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: be opened by end of February early March. And it 84 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 2: is actually very exciting and the tradition and the history, 85 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 2: and two restaurants, two bars, one large event space. 86 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 3: It's a massive Hopefully I'll be all right. 87 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: Maybe we should start with the first piece of writing 88 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: your book, which is a dedication, because as we know, 89 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: dedications are usually to one's wife or one's father, one's mother, 90 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: one's children, and this one, the dedication reads to all 91 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: the wonderful people I have worked with over the last 92 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 1: fifty years in this indefinably big, guile and wonderful world 93 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: of quote hospitality. Can you talk about that? 94 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 3: Yes? 95 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:11,799 Speaker 2: Well, the publisher said I couldn't do this dedication because 96 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 2: it went on I can't remember the exact words, but 97 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 2: it basically was saying, even those of you who've cheated me, 98 00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:25,719 Speaker 2: bewildered me, exasperated me, and so on, I still learned 99 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,559 Speaker 2: from you, even that in that case, and I wanted 100 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 2: it to mean something. It was an opportunity. I know 101 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,440 Speaker 2: we have acknowledgments in the book, but it's it's different, 102 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 2: and I I like you care most of all about 103 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 2: the people, and the people is not just. 104 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 3: The customers, it's very much the. 105 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 2: Staff, and without them we would have nothing. Now that 106 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 2: sounds like a beginning of a Oscar acceptance speech, which 107 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 2: I've always been. But actually it is the people which 108 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 2: make it work. Even the bad people taught me it is. 109 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: I think that our work is about collaboration. You know. 110 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: So we walk in the door and we're talking immediately 111 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: with somebody who does something differently from us. You know, 112 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 1: I don't know how to make a dish that probably 113 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: they can make, and I don't know how to do 114 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: the bookings, and I'm not sure how to do the cashiering, 115 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: and I probably personally would be the worst waiter. I 116 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,680 Speaker 1: was once a waiter for about a week and then 117 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 1: I was sacked. But I think it's you know, there 118 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: are all these but what we do is we collaborate, 119 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: and we share, and we learn and we work together. 120 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,720 Speaker 2: So part of my satisfaction in being a restaurateur is that, 121 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 2: because of my inherent belief that all great movements, where 122 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 2: the literary, musical, creative, painting, revolutionary, whatever there might be, 123 00:07:53,320 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 2: tend to have their formative stage in a grand cafe 124 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 2: or a brass ree or something. Restaurants the catalyst for 125 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 2: what we all want to make of our lives. And 126 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: that's where it really happens, and that's what I feel 127 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,800 Speaker 2: people are missing out terribly on by so much working 128 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 2: from home because you don't have that interaction. And the 129 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 2: person who gave me a great deal of belief is, 130 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: of course Caroline Michelle, who is very very close friends 131 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,240 Speaker 2: of yours as well, and she and she helped me 132 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 2: through it. 133 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: Were there other books that inspired you? 134 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 2: I think a lot, because it's interesting. 135 00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 3: I've got thousands of books. And Adrian Gill used. 136 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 2: To say, what are you going to do with all 137 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 2: these books that you haven't read them all? 138 00:08:38,400 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 3: Have you? 139 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 2: I said, no, no, I'm keeping them for when I 140 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: have time. Trouble is, I haven't generally had much time, 141 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 2: but I have read a lot, and I tend to 142 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 2: repeat read. I mean, at the moment I'm to change 143 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 2: the style. I'm listening to a dance the Music of Time, 144 00:08:54,840 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: which of courses twelve novels or slightly romano clip because 145 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 2: it's different. And I have sort of mixed group of 146 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: favorite books that can be tender as The Night. Fitzgerald 147 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: was really important to me. I've taken a lot of 148 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 2: I don't know why in many ways, but I've taken 149 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 2: a lot from the Leopard, including the famous line which 150 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 2: has helped me which is things that remain the same 151 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 2: everything has to change, which is a. 152 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 4: Little bit part of the creedo of my life. 153 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: Well, first, well where were you born? 154 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: I was born in Taunton in Somerset, and then we 155 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 2: were peripatetic and went around the country and then ended. 156 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:50,480 Speaker 3: My father. 157 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 2: Taught me a massive lesson which I didn't write about 158 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 2: I thought about it is he left a really well paid, 159 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 2: prestigious job on principle because he realized that the proprietor 160 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 2: was criminally dishonest, and so he gave everything else. He 161 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,480 Speaker 2: was actually in the that was a sad thing for 162 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: him is that he wanted to be an architect and 163 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: would have been a brilliant architect. And he had a 164 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 2: wonderful drawing hand. It was one of those great left 165 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 2: hand drawers, and he gave everything up. And his other 166 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 2: lasting impression on me is that when he told me 167 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: at his retirement dinner that there wasn't a single day 168 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:42,520 Speaker 2: in the previous forty years that he had hadn't got 169 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 2: up and wished he wasn't going to work, which was 170 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: the most awful, awful realization on my on my part. 171 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 2: And there were the other things other things about it. 172 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: He I think I wrote. 173 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 3: About he had a terrible. 174 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 2: Boss who wanted me to come into their company, and 175 00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: I it's a sense I felt, I had a sense 176 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 2: of obligation. It was a good learning nesson when I 177 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 2: plucked up the courage that I don't want to come 178 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: because I was very much a people pleaser. 179 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: Older you at that point. 180 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 2: I was about twenty two twenty three, I think, and 181 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 2: around that, and they wanted me to come in. 182 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 3: They thought that i'd. 183 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 2: Be the person to groom to take over the company, 184 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 2: et cetera. And I was miserable. And it taught me 185 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 2: that great lesson about only do what you want to 186 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,319 Speaker 2: do in life, not what you feel you should do, 187 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 2: and which I passed on in many ways the book 188 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 2: because Dear Caroline, and prior to that, of course, our 189 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 2: old friend ed Victor also an agent who had tried 190 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 2: to get me to write a book, and I said, no, 191 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 2: restaurant biographies are the most boring genre. 192 00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 3: You can hope to come across. 193 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: They're all got names like I Shall die on the 194 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 2: carpet or you know, or the narrative is it was 195 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 2: my honor to serve the beggar Marga kh They're boring 196 00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 2: in their list of names and so on. I'll only 197 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 2: ever write a book if I've got something to say, 198 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 2: and and I don't want to sell for grandize. But 199 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 2: I love teaching, I love passing on. I love helping people. 200 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 2: I love helping people, even if I don't like them. 201 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 2: That's the that's the weird thing. Chris, who courses my partner, 202 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 2: used to say. 203 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 3: That about the stuff. 204 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 2: They drive you mad, but you're helping them. 205 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 3: Why is that? 206 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: I said, Well, it's an it's for me. It's a 207 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 2: it's a trigger instinct. If somebody's in need of help, 208 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: is being bullied, or whatever it is, I have to help. 209 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,080 Speaker 2: And so the book came around really because of Graham 210 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 2: Graham Norton talking about the fact that when somebody was 211 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 2: saying to him that National Service should be brought back 212 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 2: to give backbone to the youth of today, etc. He said, no, 213 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 2: they should work in a rest. 214 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: It does teach you. 215 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 2: And I think we learned so much. And all my kids, 216 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 2: who've had some very very good things happen in life, 217 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 2: they're very quick to put on their CV that they 218 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 2: worked in the restaurants. 219 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I told you that. I met the recruiting person 220 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,719 Speaker 1: at apple for everything, for whether you're going to be 221 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: a graphic designer, industrial designer, technical engineer for apples, you know, 222 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: whatever you were doing. And if hospitality restaurants was on 223 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: the CV, they had a better chance of getting a job. 224 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: But we were talking about your father and growing up 225 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 1: with a man who didn't want to go to work 226 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 1: every day. What was life like in your house? Who cooked? 227 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: Did your mother cook a meal? Did you sit down 228 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: for dinner every night? 229 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 2: We would eat together quite a lot. If you ask 230 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 2: my mother what's the biggest chore of her her day, 231 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:01,199 Speaker 2: it would be cooking. 232 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 1: If yeah, of. 233 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 2: Course, it's something we never see nowadays. Thank god, it's 234 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 2: a pressure cooker, and that was the most utilized thing 235 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 2: in the kitchen. She'd throw anything into a pressure cooker 236 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 2: and what came out was de alass as they would 237 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 2: say in the front and at the level of her 238 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 2: finding cooking an anathema. I caught her once and she 239 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 2: wouldn't come out on Christmas Eve to a drinks party, 240 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 2: and she said, no, go into the kitchen because I've 241 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 2: got presents out and I'm wrapping. And I came back 242 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 2: early and she'd left the room and I looked in it, 243 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 2: and I realized there weren't any presents there. She didn't 244 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 2: want us to come into the room because she didn't 245 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 2: want us to see that she'd cooked the following day's 246 00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 2: Christmas lunch already and put it in a hostess trolley 247 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 2: and where it was going to sit for about eighteen hours. 248 00:14:57,680 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 3: And that's her approach. 249 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: But to dinner, would they take you to? Would they 250 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: take you to restaurants? 251 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 3: They would? 252 00:15:05,040 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 2: My mother was secretary of the local hotel on the 253 00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 2: seafront in Burnham. 254 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 3: On Sea, and we would go. 255 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 2: I found it very exciting because for some reason the 256 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 2: menu would be melon with ginger patate was the most 257 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 2: exotic thing. Those are the days where there was a 258 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: legitimate dish on British menus of tomato juice that you 259 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 2: would get a small glass that was at in those days. 260 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 2: And but for me it was very exciting. And I think, 261 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 2: what we do with our parents, we either adopt or reject, 262 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 2: and I did a lot of rejecting. A very very 263 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 2: particular moment in the two moments, as I mentioned in 264 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 2: the book, is one at school when the headmaster said 265 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 2: to the prefects, let's go back to my study and 266 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 2: warm a bottle of claret in front of the fire, 267 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 2: and it's one of the most evocative things. You shouldn't 268 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: warm it in front of the fire anyway, but it 269 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: caught my imagination. And then I would find out about 270 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 2: food through literature, certainly not from the school. So when 271 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: we'd finished day levels and all my friends on their 272 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,880 Speaker 2: free day out twenty four hours out who went to 273 00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 2: London and the Marquee Club and got completely ch wasted. 274 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,720 Speaker 2: I went to Petworth to eat in the in the 275 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 2: hotel there by myself. 276 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 5: By yourself, and I could. 277 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 2: That would have been eighteen and it taught me the 278 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: joy of eating by yourself. And I had roll mop 279 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 2: herrings followed. I think bad choice by trout with almonds. 280 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:50,840 Speaker 1: You can remember that meal, Oh. 281 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 2: I can remember that meal. I can remember everything about it. 282 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: I went back on a pilgrimage to find it, and that. 283 00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 3: The hotel had closed. Unfortunately. 284 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: The other reason to go to Petworth, which wasn't far 285 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 2: from where I was at school, was to go and 286 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 2: look at the the Turner paintings which had been commissioned 287 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 2: by Lord Egremont, and that for me was perfect. 288 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: We went to boarding school. 289 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 2: I went to boarding was the food like that. 290 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 3: It was terrible. 291 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 2: We had one one dish which would come up once 292 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:29,480 Speaker 2: a week, which was called skiffage Pie. And skiffage Pie 293 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 2: was named by the boys and the urban. The folklore 294 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 2: was that it was made out of leftovers of the 295 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,280 Speaker 2: food from the day before. This is a place where 296 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 2: powdered egg for scrambled egg. 297 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:48,959 Speaker 3: It was. 298 00:17:49,119 --> 00:17:51,239 Speaker 1: Did it upset you or do you think you were just? 299 00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 3: You know? 300 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: I thought we talked to Stephen Fry. Do you remember 301 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: that when we talked to him about his experience at 302 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: boarding school which really changed it was traumatic? 303 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 3: It sort of did. 304 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 2: But funny enough, all of this I realized much later. 305 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,439 Speaker 2: Was it kind of happening in parallel with Nigel Slater 306 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 2: who wrote that wonderful book What's Called Toast? I think 307 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 2: it was, And I was acting out much of what 308 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 2: he was doing. The beauty of the food being so 309 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 2: bad is it got me off quite a serious punishment 310 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 2: for smoking because I'd been caught going over a fence 311 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 2: and I played the you didn't actually catch me, even 312 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 2: though it was clear I was going to smoke that 313 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 2: and so on. And then I got the Encyclopedia Britannia 314 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 2: out and looked up hunger and hunger they explained what 315 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 2: it was and a contraction in the stomach and so on, 316 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 2: and they said there are three ways of. 317 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 3: Getting rid of hunger. One was to eat. 318 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 2: Two there was a chemical which could be taken which 319 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 2: would have staged the hunger. And three was to smoke. 320 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 2: And so I put it to the headmaster, is that 321 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,160 Speaker 2: I was forced to smoke because the food was so bad. 322 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 3: And in the end that as often that they I'll 323 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 3: go away. 324 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: And when was the decision to go into into restaurants. 325 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:19,119 Speaker 2: Well, I think, I think one of the things for me, 326 00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 2: and what I try and teach anybody who works for 327 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 2: me or other children or grandchildren, is whatever we do 328 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 2: in life, just let's just do it really well. And 329 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 2: I remember that the moment I discovered that when one 330 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 2: of my mother's other jobs was a secretary at a 331 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 2: school and I got a holiday job at the age 332 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 2: of fourteen, and they asked me to sweep the gym 333 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 2: with a not very good broom. And I was just 334 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 2: about sort of at that point of a look out, 335 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 2: you know, bothered and doing the best, and I suddenly 336 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 2: heard myself saying to myself, I'm going to do this 337 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 2: sweep this gym better than anybody else has ever swept 338 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 2: this gym, and it's started to become a mantra for me. 339 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 2: And when I was meant to be an Oxbridge scholar 340 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 2: and the school was deeply irritated and frustrated by me 341 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 2: that I wasn't going to be and I was going 342 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 2: to go to a red brick university, and I thought, no, 343 00:20:16,160 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 2: because I'm just going to go into my default danger 344 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 2: position of not aspiring. An aspiration is so important. So 345 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 2: I thought, I'll go into the city and I'll become 346 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,200 Speaker 2: a merchant banker and I'll make lots of money, because 347 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 2: that will make me happy. That's where I discovered that 348 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 2: money doesn't make you happy fulfillment. Decided to go to 349 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 2: up to Cambridge after all, and applied and got a place, 350 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 2: and meanwhile I was I'd read a book by Luke 351 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,920 Speaker 2: Reinhart called The Dice Man, and that's a book where 352 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 2: the protagonist decides the course of his life through the 353 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 2: throw of a dice. And I got intrigued. And it 354 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,160 Speaker 2: was very simple at first, where should we go to eat? 355 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,159 Speaker 2: What films should we go and see? And then it 356 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 2: got more complicated. Then I started to decide who I 357 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 2: would be that day. We were joking earlier about getting up, 358 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 2: but I'd throw the dice to decide whether I went 359 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 2: to work, or whether I went to work and lost 360 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 2: my voice, or any number of different variations. 361 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 3: And I like that. 362 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 2: And then I got a tip on a horse in 363 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:32,560 Speaker 2: the seventy three Derby, which one at extraordinary odds because 364 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 2: a bank client had come in and drawn down five 365 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 2: thousand pounds. This is a time when I earned one 366 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 2: thousand pounds a year and put it on a horse, 367 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 2: and I got a tip off from the banking department, 368 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 2: and that was the most exciting thing. 369 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 3: Is at danger. 370 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,120 Speaker 2: I suddenly realized I was actually rather addicted to danger, 371 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 2: to risk, to gambling, with so many things, and anyway, 372 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 2: I'm ran me a long story. But the matriculation papers 373 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 2: came through for Cambridge, and I threw the dice on 374 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 2: whether I went, and one of the throws said, long shot, 375 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 2: because there has to be danger if you get the 376 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 2: managership of the wine bar. I was in temporarily waiting 377 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:21,160 Speaker 2: to go to Cambridge. Within a month of your twenty 378 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 2: first birthday. You will stay in hospitality for life. And 379 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 2: that's what happened. Throw the dice, which was a double six. 380 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 2: And then I stayed and then and they carried on. 381 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 2: And then when I regretted that and went for career guidance, 382 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 2: I was told emphatically that I was perfect to be 383 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 2: an accountant. And I know why because I'm arithmetic, I'm logical, 384 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 2: I'm all those different things. But and I said, well, 385 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,119 Speaker 2: I might be a turf accountant a book make of it. 386 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 3: They said perfect. I don't know. 387 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 2: So I thought, stay in hospital reality and try and 388 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 2: be as good as you can be, even though it's 389 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 2: not vocational. 390 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 1: Oh, you you're better. I don't know if you could 391 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: be better, but what you've done personally, you might think 392 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: there is nobody better. And I think that you have 393 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: to look at that as the greatest throw of the die, 394 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 1: because what would London be without you? But if you 395 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:22,879 Speaker 1: were giving this book and you hadn't written it, but 396 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: you've read it, what the story that you'd like to 397 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 1: tell all the people listening to this. 398 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 2: I think the first story I well lesson I wrote, 399 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 2: which was elaborated upon, was actually with my daughter Hannah, 400 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 2: who was working in the restaurant. She was at university 401 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 2: in America and she was just about coming up to graduation, 402 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 2: and she said, Dad, you know I'm graduating. 403 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 3: I said, yes, I do, and she said. 404 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 2: But you know, I'm thinking. I've really enjoyed my time 405 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 2: working in the restaurants, and people say I'm doing well, 406 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 2: and I said, you're doing extremely well. I was wondering 407 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 2: whether I should come into the family business when I finish. 408 00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 3: What do you think? 409 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,960 Speaker 2: I said, absolutely not. And she said, well, it's a 410 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 2: bit harsh. Why do you say it like that. You 411 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 2: know it's your profession. It's very simple because you use 412 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 2: the word should. She said, how do you mean? I said, 413 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 2: you said, I'm wondering whether I should come, and I 414 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 2: don't deal in shoulds. All the things I regret in 415 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 2: my life pretty much have been things I did because 416 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 2: I felt I should. I'm only interested in once you 417 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 2: want to be a theater director, Go and be a 418 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 2: theater director. Go and fail, Go and find out you 419 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 2: don't like it. Get anything. If you come back to 420 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 2: me and say, now I really want to be in 421 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 2: the restaurant, I'll welcome you with open arms. But everybody 422 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:54,120 Speaker 2: has to do what they should. 423 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 3: And that was I mean. It went on. 424 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 2: I showed some professional examples of the shoulds versus once 425 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 2: and in a way, that's the essence of the book is. Yes, 426 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 2: there are chapters on Princess Diana, or Harold Pinter, or 427 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,320 Speaker 2: people like Peter Langhan who is not was a hero, 428 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 2: not a mentor, but a hero, the restaurateur Lucien Freud. 429 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 2: They I've tried to write them now so that we 430 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 2: can learn from people, because if we don't constantly aspire 431 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 2: to learn from people, we are nothing. 432 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: When you when you interview someone for a job working 433 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,920 Speaker 1: with you at any level, can you send somebody who's 434 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: doing it because they should instead of they want to. 435 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's very often. 436 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 2: And and I one of the you were talking about 437 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: books earlier. 438 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 3: I think one of the very really really good. 439 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 2: Books to learn from in All Walks of Life is 440 00:25:53,600 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 2: Danny Meyer's Setting the Table, and and he actually doing 441 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:06,119 Speaker 2: a sequel at the moment, which I'm fascinated by. I 442 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 2: made a mistake once which I will never repeat, when 443 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 2: I interviewed somebody for a very senior position who everybody 444 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 2: wanted to hire in the company, and I was the 445 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 2: sign off, and I sat down with them, and within 446 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 2: sixty seconds I knew that they were wrong for the job. 447 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 2: And sixty minutes later I gave them the job. And 448 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 2: that's because I felt I should, and that's because and 449 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 2: the pleasing and it wasn't right for them, and I 450 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 2: felt guilty for so long. I think we do know. 451 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 2: I think we instinctively and intuitively we know so much. 452 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 2: And the trouble is with society at the moment is 453 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 2: this has all being suppressed, that moneyball mentality where everything 454 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,880 Speaker 2: has to be statistically supported or you hear people say 455 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 2: proof of concept, etc. We're not allowed to be instinctive anymore. 456 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 2: And we know much more, but we've suppressed it, suppressed 457 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 2: our ability because of social conditioning and expectation and not 458 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 2: upsetting people and so on and so forth. And there's 459 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,120 Speaker 2: a certain amount in the book about using instinct and intuition. 460 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 1: And when I said that you've given us all our 461 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: stability and you've given us celebration, you've also given us joy. 462 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: And what do you think of the joyful days that 463 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 1: you have? 464 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I do realize I take. 465 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 2: I take most of my joy from other people's happiness. 466 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 2: And I think something which is missing in society today 467 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 2: is altruism. And I love altruism, the notion that you 468 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 2: could do something for somebody else without any expectation of reward, 469 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 2: and we at the restaurants. Years ago, we closed Capris 470 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,359 Speaker 2: for Christmas, and in those days we had to paint 471 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 2: every every year because the nicotine stained white walls. 472 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:17,199 Speaker 3: It was terrible. 473 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 2: And when you painted in those days it was lead paint, 474 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 2: so you had to wait a week before you could 475 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,239 Speaker 2: trade because it stank. And we had happened to have 476 00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 2: I think we had to close the day early because 477 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 2: of a storm or something. And I had quite a 478 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 2: lot of food and stuff, saying what are we going 479 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 2: to do with that? And I said, well, I tell 480 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 2: you what. There's a traveler's church near where I was 481 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 2: living in Wapping. I'll drop it off there. And I 482 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 2: arrived at the eight but knocked on the door. This 483 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 2: cleric came to the door. I said, yes, I said, 484 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 2: I've got some food. Okay, put it through there. Well, 485 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 2: there was a bit a bit off, and I said, 486 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 2: can you give me a hand? 487 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 3: And he was a bit. 488 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 2: And then he came and I opened the back of 489 00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 2: the car and he couldn't believe it, and. 490 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 3: He said, I'm so so so so sorry. I'll explain. 491 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 2: I'll get this in and I explained, and they'd made 492 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 2: an appeal for food and they had boxes of different 493 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,960 Speaker 2: types of tin food, spaghetti, hoops. He said, I've got 494 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 2: one hundred people downstairs. We're getting angry because we promised 495 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 2: them a three course meal and we don't have a dessert, 496 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 2: and you bring me a car full of fruit. And 497 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 2: I said, well, that's good. Then he said it's brilliant. 498 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 2: He said, who are you? Well, thank you? I said, 499 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 2: doesn't matter. So I didn't tell him. And the next 500 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 2: year I came back, but then even more because we 501 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 2: bought food, and he said I did wonder. 502 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 3: I did wonder. This is amazing, this is like a miracle. 503 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 3: Let me help you. Who are you? 504 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 2: I said, doesn't matter. And then we started buying more 505 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 2: and more food, and for fifteen years we'd turned up 506 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,680 Speaker 2: with a van and put it down. And then the 507 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 2: condition with the driver. 508 00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 3: Is you must not tell them. 509 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 2: And they still don't know. 510 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 5: They don't know. 511 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: Maybe we should tell them now, and we. 512 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 3: Got funny enough. 513 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 2: I went back to look at that the church have 514 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,920 Speaker 2: been deconsecrated, and but that I think that's joy. 515 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 5: That's joy. 516 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: Would you like to read the recipe first, or we 517 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:40,080 Speaker 1: can read it later? And you said that you were 518 00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: looking for something in blue books, you chose potatoes with panchetta. 519 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:46,880 Speaker 5: Why why this recipe? 520 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 2: It's recipe because this cookbook has always been incredibly special 521 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 2: for me. When it came out, I it was the 522 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 2: first cookbook I'd actually ever been excited about, and I 523 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 2: had an opportunity to talk about it because I happened 524 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,160 Speaker 2: to sit on the Glen Fiddick Awards, which was the 525 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:13,120 Speaker 2: big cookbook awards that year, and argued with the committee 526 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 2: because I'm sure you won't mind me saying there was 527 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,720 Speaker 2: famously one or two recipes which didn't quite work. And 528 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 2: they said, how can we give best cookbook to one 529 00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 2: which isn't technically necessarily one hundred percent? And I said, 530 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 2: very easily, because without question, it's the most inspiration of 531 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 2: cookbooks and it will get people cooking, and it got 532 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 2: me cooking more. And this is a particularly poignant time 533 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 2: because I'd taken the kids, three young kids, down to 534 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 2: the locked Valley. We were looking for a new house 535 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,360 Speaker 2: to rent where we didn't have to be social. That 536 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 2: whole thing about going on holiday and people driving thirty 537 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,560 Speaker 2: miles to have dinner where they don't. 538 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: Drive, is somebody in London. 539 00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't even see them in London. And I 540 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,640 Speaker 2: happened to pick up this recipe and started using it, 541 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 2: and the kids loved it. And the kids, I mean, 542 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 2: the memory of the holiday was great, although I did 543 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 2: laugh because come the end of it, we got back 544 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 2: to London and I said, did you enjoy that holiday? 545 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 3: And they said, yes, very much. I said, what did 546 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 3: you enjoy about it? 547 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 2: And I thought they talk about the fishing on the river, 548 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 2: going through all the Roman gladiators we saw in the 549 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,080 Speaker 2: local town. And they looked at each other and conferred 550 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 2: and then said, because we got to eat more ice 551 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 2: cream than you all, we can do exactly Bogna regions. 552 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 2: But the actually, in a way it was a metaphor 553 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 2: because the ice cream would have tasted so good if 554 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 2: it hadn't been for the for the setting, and I 555 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 2: think it's no setting. No experience is ever the same 556 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 2: without the quality of food which accompanies it. And I 557 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 2: cooked this recipe. The kids loved it and insisted on 558 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 2: cooking again, even though it had alien, alien ingredients as 559 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 2: far as far as there's concerned. And one of them 560 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:22,120 Speaker 2: was on that steadfast jam on bread and nothing else. 561 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:29,160 Speaker 2: And this I'm prepossessing recipe kind of changed them. 562 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,960 Speaker 1: Well, it's very comforting recipe as well, isn't it, So 563 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 1: we can read it here. 564 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 2: So we're talking about potato and panchetta alfauna, which serves six, 565 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 2: which is appropriate. 566 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: There were five, and I'd. 567 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 2: Have double portion. So one hundred grams of panchetta, thinly 568 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:54,960 Speaker 2: sliced fingers not to be cut, four tablespoons of olive oil, 569 00:33:55,920 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 2: four garlic clothes peeled and finely sliced, twenty sage leaves, 570 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 2: one kilogram of rose vil or similar yellow waxy potatoes peel. Interestingly, 571 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 2: I hadn't fully realized how important those potatoes are. Yeah, 572 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 2: really really good, A really good lesson two hundred and 573 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 2: fifty mil of double cream parmesan, finely grated. Preheat the 574 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,360 Speaker 2: oven to one hundred and ninety degrees. I always go 575 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty, but they go rightly. Fry the panchetta, 576 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,959 Speaker 2: stir in the garlic, add the sage, Cook for a minute, 577 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,280 Speaker 2: and remove from the heat. I actually always use shalots 578 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:40,800 Speaker 2: because I'm not so good, not so good with garlic. 579 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: To sell. It's a bit fresh for the river favor. 580 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, slice each potato lengthways into thick slices. Place 581 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 2: in a large bowl, add the panchetta mixture and the cream, 582 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 2: season and toss even They distribute the mixture in a 583 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,879 Speaker 2: baking dish with foil and cook in the oven for 584 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 2: forty minutes. Halfway through, removed the foil so that the 585 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 2: surface of the potatoes becomes brown. Sprinkle over the parmesan, 586 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 2: and cook for a further than five minutes. Delicious with 587 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,280 Speaker 2: grilled beef or lamb. I used it with lamb a lot. Yeah, 588 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 2: And it is that it is so critical that that 589 00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 2: moment of removing the foil and knowing how long to 590 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 2: let it go brown. 591 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 3: But it was. 592 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 2: It was extraordinary and something as simple as this was 593 00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 2: the catalyst for the children changing their attitude to food. 594 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: Do you think that I think children did. What how 595 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: old were they at the time? 596 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 2: The kids were two, four and six? 597 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,239 Speaker 1: Wow? No, wonder they want the ice cream? Simpsons is 598 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: so exciting. I think that if we do measure a 599 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: city by restaurants, then I think that London is a 600 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: better city because of Jeremy King. But the fact that 601 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,640 Speaker 1: we all want to hear a restaurant going to open, 602 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: there's that anticipation what's it going to be like, what's 603 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:05,800 Speaker 1: the food going to be like? How will we feel 604 00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: when we're sitting there? Well, we go before the theater, 605 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,240 Speaker 1: we go after the theater, and so again you've given 606 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: us something to look forward to. And these I was saying, 607 00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:19,160 Speaker 1: these quite dark days, especially now it's a bit of light. 608 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,960 Speaker 1: And so if we all need light, we all need 609 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 1: anticipation and excitement, we also need comfort. If you do 610 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,680 Speaker 1: need comfort, is there a food that you would turn to? 611 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 2: It is strange And thank you for what you said now. 612 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 2: And I think the effect we have on the city. 613 00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 2: I always remember with Richard who would quote, I can't 614 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:47,440 Speaker 2: remember the philosopher that we should leave the cities better 615 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 2: than better than we found them. What whatever we do, 616 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 2: I think there is a lot to be said for 617 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,840 Speaker 2: restaurants because they are the catalysts for so much, and 618 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,440 Speaker 2: we all go to them for different reasons. I spend 619 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 2: a lot of time. I'm by my by myself when 620 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 2: I when I can, and the comfort food, which probably 621 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 2: I if I if it's at short notice, I'm taking 622 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 2: some rye bread and putting anchovy, a lot of butter 623 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,959 Speaker 2: and anchovies on top. If I've got a bit more time. 624 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 2: I want to have some mash salad, and I will 625 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:33,279 Speaker 2: seata chicken livers and often with a with a with 626 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 2: a like a raspberry vinegar, strangely, et cetera, and luxuriating 627 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,040 Speaker 2: that the combination. 628 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:41,880 Speaker 5: The two that's good. 629 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: Do you toast the bread. 630 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 2: If it's if it's not, if it's fresh bread, I toasted, 631 00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 2: if it's if it's one of those old fashioned rye 632 00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 2: breads out of the packet. 633 00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,080 Speaker 5: Thank you, Jerry, Thank you. 634 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 2: Ruthie's Table for was produced by Alex Robbie Hamilton and 635 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 2: Zad Rogers, with Andrew Sang and Bella Selini. This has 636 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 2: been an atomized production for Iheartmediam