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Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson.

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Speaker 2: I'm a journalist who's spent the last twenty five years

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Speaker 2: writing about true crime.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's

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Speaker 3: worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them.

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Speaker 2: Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most compelling.

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Speaker 3: True crimes, and I weigh in using modern forensic techniques

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Speaker 3: to bring new insights to old mysteries.

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Speaker 2: Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime

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Speaker 2: cases through a twenty first century lens.

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Speaker 3: Some are solved and some are cold, very cold.

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Speaker 1: This is buried Bones. Hey Kate, Hey Paul, how are you?

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Speaker 3: I am doing good. I've got my cava drink. I'm

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Speaker 3: nice and mellow.

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Speaker 1: Good boy. We like you, mellow.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to sit back and looking forward to hearing

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Speaker 3: a story. How are things going with you?

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Speaker 2: They're going okay. I have a Ruby's story. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if it's amusing. I guess I think it's funny.

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Speaker 2: The girls like to spend the night at my parents' house,

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Speaker 2: sometimes just as a sleepover, and they occasionally like for

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Speaker 2: me to come and sleep in the big bed.

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Speaker 1: And we get to hang out and spend some time

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Speaker 1: with my folks.

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Speaker 2: And my parents live. I always say my parents live

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Speaker 2: a Taylor Swift song away from us. It's about three

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Speaker 2: and a half to four minutes away from us. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: very close. We bought this house in the neighborhood so

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Speaker 2: I could be closer to my folks. And we were

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Speaker 2: over there one night very recently, and we brought Ruby

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Speaker 2: with us. You know, our dog or kavapoo. Bailey is

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Speaker 2: being trained somewhere, some mysterious place so that we can

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Speaker 2: stop the madness of all the biting and everything that

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Speaker 2: she does. So we were sending We've sent her off

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Speaker 2: to a short term boarding school.

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Speaker 1: I'm very happy with.

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Speaker 2: So Ruby spends the night and she's very, very anxious

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Speaker 2: at my parents' house. She's sort of roaming the halls,

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Speaker 2: even though I always try to get her to sleep

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Speaker 2: with us. She's roaming the halls and she starts scratching

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Speaker 2: at me wanting to go to the restroom at three

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Speaker 2: point thirty in the morning, which is unusual.

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Speaker 1: She usually sleeps through the whole night.

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Speaker 2: And I thought, Okay, well, if she's really that anxious,

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Speaker 2: maybe she does need to go legitimately to the potty.

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Speaker 2: So I throw on some pants and I go downstairs

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Speaker 2: and I turn off the alarm, and I have a

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Speaker 2: kid sleeping on the sofa downstairs who sleeps through all

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Speaker 2: of this. And Ruby's very happy to go outside, and

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Speaker 2: I open up the door and she does not need

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Speaker 2: to go to the restroom. Apparently she wants to chase

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Speaker 2: an animal. And we don't really have animals.

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Speaker 1: In our backyard.

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Speaker 2: We have a very foresty backyard, but we're fenced in

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Speaker 2: and I've put down some like wire mesh stuff that

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Speaker 2: won't cut the dogs. That's really for guard, but it

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Speaker 2: really does stop.

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Speaker 1: All of the animals from coming in and out.

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Speaker 2: We have a lot of armadillos and raccoons and possums

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Speaker 2: and stuff like that. My parents, I did not know

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Speaker 2: have skunks.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, I can see where this is going.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, no place good. It was awful.

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Speaker 2: She was sprayed by this skunk and was confused and

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Speaker 2: didn't know what to do.

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Speaker 1: And it's in the dark. And I went running out

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Speaker 1: there with a piece of cheese because that's.

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Speaker 2: The only thing that gets stupid dog's attention is cheese sometimes.

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Speaker 2: So I ran out there with a piece of cheese

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Speaker 2: and grabbed her and it was the worst smell I've

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Speaker 2: ever smelled in my life.

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Speaker 1: Do you all have skunks in Colorado?

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Speaker 3: We do, though they're relatively rare, you know, in my neighborhood.

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Speaker 3: I've seen one in my backyard, I've smelled them, i've

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Speaker 3: seen roadkill. But relative to California, where I used to live,

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Speaker 3: I mean, they were all over the place there. I

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Speaker 3: thought there'd be a lot more skunks where I'm at.

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Speaker 1: Well, we have a lot, apparently, at least in my

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Speaker 1: mom's backyard.

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Speaker 2: There must ben because she got sprayed and we took

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Speaker 2: her up, and I thought, okay, tomato sauce or tomato juice.

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Speaker 2: And I read on the internet that that's actually a myth.

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Speaker 2: That's not the thing to use. It's said to use

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Speaker 2: a dish soap because the spray from a skunk is oily, apparently,

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Speaker 2: and dish soap is the thing to use.

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Speaker 1: And I thought, there's no way. I don't want to

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Speaker 1: wash my.

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Speaker 2: Dog with dish soap, but we were desperate. It was

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Speaker 2: the most disgusting smell ever, and she was very mad

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Speaker 2: and I ended up taking her to the vet a

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Speaker 2: few days later, but she didn't have any scratches. It

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Speaker 2: didn't look like they had a physical confrontation other than

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Speaker 2: the defense mechanism of the skunk.

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Speaker 1: So I washed her with dawn. My parents had some dawn.

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Speaker 2: It took I would bet eighty percent of the smell away,

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Speaker 2: and then we then washed her with her sort of

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Speaker 2: like organic oat meal based shampoo and conditioner. And now

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Speaker 2: she's got a little funk about her, but it almost

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Speaker 2: smells more like she's been near an open fire rather

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Speaker 2: than sprayed by the stinkiest animal on the planet. And

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Speaker 2: I took her to the vet because I was concerned,

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Speaker 2: does she have it in her eyes?

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Speaker 1: Is she okay?

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Speaker 2: And the vet checked her out and said she's perfect.

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Speaker 2: But the vet said, boy, I just almost didn't believe

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Speaker 2: you because we had a dog in here a couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks ago, and you could still smell the skunk.

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Speaker 2: And I said, Dawn, it is that dish soap. And

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Speaker 2: I had never heard of that as a remedy. But

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Speaker 2: if you do run into if Cora runs into one

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Speaker 2: of those mysterious skunks, now you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, that is such a pungent smell, you know. Fortunately,

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Speaker 3: Cora surprisingly does not chase many animals except bears. Yes,

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Speaker 3: that is the problem. Osh deer, no problem. Bunny rabbits

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Speaker 3: all over the place. She doesn't pay any attention. I

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Speaker 3: don't think she would go after a skunk, but she

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Speaker 3: goes after the largest, meanest animal in Colorado.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, love Cora. Okay, let's get going

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Speaker 2: on this case, because boy, this case was a humdinger

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Speaker 2: for me. It is very intensive and it's a big

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Speaker 2: mystery up until the end. I think there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of profiling here, not so much of the forensic evidence,

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Speaker 2: but more of the profiling and.

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Speaker 1: Who the hell could do this? And this is in

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighties.

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Speaker 2: This is the most contemporary case that we've done, and

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Speaker 2: I am deterred from doing those because I think that

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Speaker 2: those are cases that we hear about. But this was

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Speaker 2: a newish case for me. Probably some of our listeners

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Speaker 2: have heard of it, but boy, it felt unusual. So

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Speaker 2: let's go ahead and get going in let's set the scene.

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Speaker 2: So this takes place in nineteen eighty four, and it

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Speaker 2: takes place in Iowa. So I've never been to Iowa.

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Speaker 2: I always ask you this, have you been to Iowa?

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Speaker 3: I actually have. I don't do a case in Iowa

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Speaker 3: for a TV show.

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Speaker 1: What was the case?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's a case. It was a double homicide in

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Speaker 3: nineteen eighty and it was in Williamsburg, Iowa, and it

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Speaker 3: was a couple, man and woman who were hatcheted to

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Speaker 3: death in their hotel bed. Wow, crazy case. What was

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Speaker 3: surprising to me is I always had this vision of

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Speaker 3: Iowa as being flat and nothing but cornfields and this

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Speaker 3: part of Iowa and I flew into cedar rapids, drove

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Speaker 3: out to Williamsburg, and that ultimately had to drive down

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Speaker 3: to Missouri where the couple had originated from. And I

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Speaker 3: was so pleasantly surprised the area where we were at

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Speaker 3: Rolling Hills, farmland, barns. It was just beautiful. I completely

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Speaker 3: had a different perception of Iowa than what I experienced.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is in a very rural part of Iowa,

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Speaker 2: in Wapello County, and it's in the rural southeastern part

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Speaker 2: of Iowa. And the the main scene here is a

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Speaker 2: mobile home. So let's talk first about mobile homes as

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Speaker 2: crime scenes. Is there a negative or a positive? I

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Speaker 2: guess there's a smaller space to work with if there's

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Speaker 2: something that happens inside the mobile home.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't say there's anything one way or the other.

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Speaker 3: It's another scene. But usually mobile homes, of course, are small,

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Speaker 3: and that limits the amount of geography that needs to

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Speaker 3: be covered in terms of the scene work. But because

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Speaker 3: it's so small, can be so cramped that evidence is

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Speaker 3: just it's tough to kind of document.

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Speaker 2: And I had also wondered if certain older and we're

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Speaker 2: talking about the nineteen eighties, if these older mobile homes

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Speaker 2: were sealed as well, Like they're not insulated necessarily, right,

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Speaker 2: you know, there.

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Speaker 3: Is some insulation in these mobile homes, but relative to houses,

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Speaker 3: they are not very well insulated. You know, the walls

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Speaker 3: are thinner. Okay, so you know, if you're starting to

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Speaker 3: get it into, you know, can something be heard you know,

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Speaker 3: from the outside inside the mobile home or the opposite.

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Speaker 3: I would say, yeah, you're more likely to hear something

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Speaker 3: coming out of a mobile hole and then coming out

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Speaker 3: of a house if it's fully closed up.

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Speaker 2: So the reason that we're talking about this mobile home

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Speaker 2: is firefighters on April twelfth of nineteen eighty four respond

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Speaker 2: to an active fire at this home. The home is

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Speaker 2: about one hundred feet off of a gravel road that

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Speaker 2: people travel on often and the mobile home has nearly

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Speaker 2: been burnt to the ground. Firefighters have a difficult time

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Speaker 2: navigating all of this because there are reportedly forty junked cars,

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Speaker 2: countless old refrigerators, washing machines, television sets, bicycles, lawnmowers, I mean,

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Speaker 2: everything that you can think of that you can see

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Speaker 2: from the road that is piled in this area. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: so let me show you a photo because there is

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Speaker 2: a body amongst all of this, just because I want

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Speaker 2: you to see what firefighters we're dealing with, because they

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Speaker 2: miss something that's very important. You can see the mobile

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Speaker 2: home to the right, and it is a this is

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Speaker 2: a mess.

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Speaker 3: They're calling that a mobile home.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I think so unless this stuff that you

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Speaker 2: see on the left is the mobile home. I see

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Speaker 2: a television, I see a lot of stuff that just

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Speaker 2: looks destroyed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're saying that this thing was burned down

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Speaker 3: to the ground, that kind of a morphous metal mass

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Speaker 3: on the left hand side is likely the remnants of

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Speaker 3: the mobile home. And then you'll have other standing structures

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Speaker 3: that look like more I mean, they're poorly built, they're old,

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Speaker 3: but they look like permanent structures on this land.

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Speaker 1: Can you understand looking at this picture.

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Speaker 2: Why firefighters in their efforts to put out this fire,

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Speaker 2: rural area firefighters, in their efforts to put out this fire.

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Speaker 1: Could miss a body on the property.

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Speaker 3: No, absolutely, Having worked homicides that involved arson, you know,

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Speaker 3: after the case and seeing how destructive a fire is,

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Speaker 3: it is very easy to miss a body. It takes

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Speaker 3: a very diligent search oftentimes to locate a body amongst

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Speaker 3: all the burnt debris. And what most people don't realize

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Speaker 3: is that if the body has been subjected to the

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Speaker 3: fire itself, the body does not look like a body anymore.

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Speaker 3: It changes dramatically. And so this is where working with

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Speaker 3: like in California, you know very experienced arson investigators from

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Speaker 3: the State Fire Marshal's office or even the local fire

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Speaker 3: department arson investigators. You have these individuals who are experienced

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Speaker 3: at looking at the world after it has been burned

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Speaker 3: and even everyday objects after they have burned and melted

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Speaker 3: the inner components. Some of the inner components are still present,

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Speaker 3: but it's not something most people ever see. These guys

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Speaker 3: are able to go through and say, oh, that's an

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Speaker 3: old rotary dial phone, Oh there's a radio over there,

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Speaker 3: you know, versus to my eyes. It's just a black,

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Speaker 3: molten mess yep. So it is. You know, when you

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Speaker 3: start talking about a body, depending on the situation, oftentimes

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Speaker 3: it can be very hard to find a body in

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Speaker 3: a mobile home that has been completely burned down to

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Speaker 3: the ground.

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Speaker 1: Well, let me tell you a little secret.

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Speaker 2: I have. Number one, the body was in the driveway,

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Speaker 2: not inside the mobile home. And number two, I know

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Speaker 2: you're laughing, sorry, Paul. And number two it wasn't burned

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Speaker 2: at all. That wasn't the cause of death. Not a

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Speaker 2: burn mark on this guy. Now you want to know more.

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Speaker 1: I see that.

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Speaker 3: Well, so you know, of course the firemen are responding

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Speaker 3: out there. Their focus is the fire. Is this body

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Speaker 3: laying on the driveway something within their view? Or is

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Speaker 3: this a fresh body? Does it look like somebody's just

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Speaker 3: sleeping there? I don't know. You know, that was not

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Speaker 3: what I was expecting.

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Speaker 2: Which I'm glad that I fooled you there, because it

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Speaker 2: was really good to hear that somebody professionally trained like

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Speaker 2: a firefighter might not have picked up on a body

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Speaker 2: that had been inside.

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Speaker 1: I thought it would be obvious.

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Speaker 2: But in this case, this was a body that was

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Speaker 2: on the driveway that was just sort of surrounded by

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Speaker 2: so much junk. I just don't think it was their focus,

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Speaker 2: and they missed it. They missed the body even though

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Speaker 2: he hadn't been burned. And the person who found the

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Speaker 2: body was a man who came over onto the property

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Speaker 2: the next day because he wanted to pull into the

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Speaker 2: driveway because he had seen all this junk, and you know,

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Speaker 2: he was just sort of curious about the fire and

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Speaker 2: what was going to happen to this junk and could

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Speaker 2: he buy any of it? And he finds this dead bite.

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Speaker 2: I know, this is what you get for being curious,

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Speaker 2: you find a dead body in the driveway. Sure, and

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Speaker 2: the body is of the owner of the mobile home,

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Speaker 2: which is a twenty year old man named Justin Hook Junior.

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Speaker 2: His family owns the property. He's been living there, and

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Speaker 2: his body is located about two hundred to three hundred

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Speaker 2: feet away from the mobile home itself, so it is

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Speaker 2: not right on the road. This driveway, it's sort of

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Speaker 2: I'm picturing kind of a very long driveway that perhaps

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Speaker 2: even goes around the mobile home. He's not front and center.

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Speaker 2: So I think we can forgive the firefighters for not

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Speaker 2: finding him when they're focused on this terrible fire happening.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, for sure, you know that's not their focus.

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Speaker 3: If they never even drove past the location where his

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Speaker 3: body was at, they came out to their mission and left. Yep,

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Speaker 3: And it sounds like for the case, we're fortunate that

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Speaker 3: this junk collector decided to stop by and discover the

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Speaker 3: body sooner than maybe it would have been discovered, because now,

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Speaker 3: as that body's laying there, you're going to be losing

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Speaker 3: evidence as it decomposes, and time from I'm assuming this

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Speaker 3: is a homicide case, time from the commission of the

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Speaker 3: homicide to the time autopsy and evidence collection, crime scene

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Speaker 3: processing could have been much more delayed.

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Speaker 2: And I have always dismissed the idea that there's so

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Speaker 2: much junk that you can't see, and that was remedied

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Speaker 2: when I started writing my first book, which was Death

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Speaker 2: in the Air, about serial killer John Reginald Christy and

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Speaker 2: how he had buried two women in his backyard and

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Speaker 2: when his neighbor was being investigated by the police. Unbeknownst

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Speaker 2: to the police, John Christy was a serial killer. They

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Speaker 2: go into the backyard and there's so much junk that

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Speaker 2: they missed that Christy had taken one of the femurs

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Speaker 2: from one of the women he had buried and used

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Speaker 2: it to prop up a fence. They walked right past it.

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Speaker 2: I just thought, this is Keystone cops. I can't even

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Speaker 2: believe that happened. But then I saw the photos and

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Speaker 2: I thought, oh boy, I mean, they're just these guys

295
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Speaker 2: are just trying not to get tetanus.

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Speaker 1: So now I have more empathy about that.

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Speaker 3: It is so common to go into these junkie environments

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Speaker 3: you have notably, you know, something like in the JC

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Speaker 3: Doguard case. You know, this was she was a young

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Speaker 3: girl up in Tahoe that Phil and Nancy Gerrito abducted

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Speaker 3: and then turns out she was found alive in my jurisdiction.

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Speaker 3: And I spent two weeks on Girrito's property and he

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Speaker 3: had a couple of acres filled with junk and that's

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Speaker 3: where jac and her daughters were being raised, you know,

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Speaker 3: And it was just like, this is crazy. We had

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Speaker 3: to bring in bulldozers in order to go through this property.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just didn't expect it. I didn't expect it

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Speaker 2: to be that much of an issue, But after seeing

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Speaker 2: the photos, I can see. Let's talk about the cause

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Speaker 2: of death because I know that's one of your favorite

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00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 2: things to talk about. So Justin, as I mentioned, didn't

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Speaker 2: have any burns on him. He died from severe head

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Speaker 2: wounds bludgeon to death, heavy blows to the head and

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Speaker 2: to the neck. The sheriff was not sure if this

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Speaker 2: was connected to the actual fire.

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Speaker 1: I don't really see.

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Speaker 2: Just because he wasn't burned doesn't mean that this was

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Speaker 2: not connected to the fire.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know how important it is.

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Speaker 2: Do you buy that just because Justin wasn't burned doesn't

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Speaker 2: mean that the fire is connected to this murder?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's awfully coincidental that prior to the mobile home

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Speaker 3: where this twenty year old lived, you know, is occurring

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Speaker 3: and he's dead. So I going into this scene this

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Speaker 3: type of investigation would have to make an investigative path,

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Speaker 3: assuming you know, it's not restricted to but assuming that

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Speaker 3: there is a chance that the fire was set as

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Speaker 3: a result of this homicide or vice versa. Yeah, they're

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Speaker 3: likely related to the offenders, you know, commit arson? And

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Speaker 3: why did they commit arson? What are they trying to

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Speaker 3: burn down? Is there something that could be linked to them?

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Speaker 3: Or are they trying to send a message to somebody

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Speaker 3: else and they've also killed Justin or something along those lines.

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Speaker 2: So the sheriff has a problem in that there is

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Speaker 2: not very much forensic evidence to be gathered at this scene.

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Speaker 1: We know that fire is not an investigator's friend.

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Speaker 2: Many times, they don't find a weapon, they don't find

339
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Speaker 2: shoe prints, they don't entire tracks, they don't know how

340
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Speaker 2: the fire started, whether it was intentional or not.

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Speaker 3: The kind of the source of ignition is often critical

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00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,959
Speaker 3: to determine. You know, it's are you dealing with something

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Speaker 3: that just because Justin was killed, he's no longer Maybe

344
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,240
Speaker 3: the space heater that he was using or whatever device

345
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 3: ends up overheating and it's just an accidental fire, but

346
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:28,480
Speaker 3: you still have the homicide or did the offenders purposefully

347
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,679
Speaker 3: set a fire inside this mobile home, either using an

348
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:36,480
Speaker 3: accelerant or utilizing some other type of mechanism in order

349
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Speaker 3: to do it. But if you have experienced oars and

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Speaker 3: investigators and they're going, well, we can't determine how this

351
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,000
Speaker 3: fire started, that tells me that pretty much this whole

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Speaker 3: thing was just completely burned up.

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Speaker 2: If you're going to bother setting a mobile home on fire,

354
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Speaker 2: why not put his body in there? To cover up

355
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Speaker 2: some of the evidence.

356
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Speaker 3: It all depends on the circumstances.

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Speaker 2: You know.

358
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Speaker 3: Right now, you've told me Justin's been bludging to death

359
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,560
Speaker 3: and he's laying on this driveway. But was he bludgeoned

360
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Speaker 3: to death on the driveway? Is there evidence that that's

361
00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 3: where he was killed? Was he killed inside the mobile home?

362
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 3: You know, did his injuries incapacitate him, or was he

363
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,879
Speaker 3: able to actually run out of the mobile home before

364
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,520
Speaker 3: the fire really took hold and then he expired out

365
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:21,240
Speaker 3: on the driveway.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, let me give you some more information about Justin.

367
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,040
Speaker 2: Justin seems to be a pretty happy, go lucky guy.

368
00:19:28,359 --> 00:19:30,719
Speaker 2: He got married when he was sixteen, remember he's twenty,

369
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 2: and then just recently got divorced and got himself a

370
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Speaker 2: new fiance named Tina.

371
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Speaker 1: He has a.

372
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Speaker 2: Mother and he has a stepfather, and they live about

373
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Speaker 2: forty miles away. So those are kind of the main

374
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Speaker 2: players here when we're determining what's going to happen moving forward,

375
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,440
Speaker 2: because boy, this is about to be a long road

376
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,600
Speaker 2: for us. The police, of course determine this as murder.

377
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,239
Speaker 2: They are investigating as much as they can, but the

378
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,840
Speaker 2: sheriff has very few leads he doesn't seem to have

379
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 2: a any real enemies that they know of yet, So

380
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,159
Speaker 2: they decide they want to go and of course do

381
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,520
Speaker 2: a death notification to Sarah Link, who is the forty

382
00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,919
Speaker 2: one year old mother and her husband Rex. So they

383
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,439
Speaker 2: drive out to Farmington, Iowa, and they attempt to do

384
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,080
Speaker 2: this notification. Have you done these before? This was not

385
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:20,320
Speaker 2: your job, was it?

386
00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,000
Speaker 3: No? No, I've never had to do a death notification,

387
00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 3: and thank god I didn't have to do that. I

388
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 3: had a mom had a fifteen year old girl that

389
00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 3: was shot inside a house, and while I was out there,

390
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,359
Speaker 3: the mom came up to me, and then during the conversation,

391
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,719
Speaker 3: she asked me, please tell me my daughter didn't suffer,

392
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,320
Speaker 3: you know, And that's such a hard thing to have

393
00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 3: to deal with. But the death investigators, the other investigators

394
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,720
Speaker 3: that are the first ones to tell a family that

395
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 3: their loved one has died, and not only have they died,

396
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,000
Speaker 3: but they've either been killed in a car accident or

397
00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,400
Speaker 3: victims of homicide. Imagine how tough that is for those

398
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 3: people to have to do those.

399
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,159
Speaker 2: Horrific and I'm sure they were not looking forward to

400
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,639
Speaker 2: doing this. They arrive in Farmington, to talk to Sarah Link,

401
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:15,159
Speaker 2: Justin's mother, and they encounter Rex, who is his stepfather,

402
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,480
Speaker 2: and they say, we want to talk to Sarah. We

403
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 2: have something to tell both of you, and Rex says,

404
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 2: I haven't seen Sarah for several days and as a

405
00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,919
Speaker 2: matter of fact, I contacted my police here in Farmington

406
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,159
Speaker 2: and I reported her missing. So now we have a

407
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 2: dead son and a missing mom.

408
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:32,880
Speaker 3: Okay.

409
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 2: So Rex says that he had last seen his wife,

410
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,119
Speaker 2: Sarah Thursday night, which is the night of Justin's fire

411
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 2: at the mobile home. So Rex says he left for

412
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 2: his night shift, he said goodbye to Sarah. He doesn't

413
00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:50,400
Speaker 2: know where she went, but she does go to visit

414
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,880
Speaker 2: Justin at the mobile home. So Sarah wasn't home when

415
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,880
Speaker 2: he returned Friday morning from his night shift, and that's

416
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,080
Speaker 2: when he called the police. I mean, that just sounds

417
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,120
Speaker 2: to me unbelievable. His step son is dead and now

418
00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 2: his wife is missing.

419
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:10,000
Speaker 3: Sure, you know, but here this is where, Okay, he's

420
00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:14,919
Speaker 3: put an alibi forward. Now the investigators are going to

421
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 3: have to verify that alibi and it needs to be

422
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,800
Speaker 3: more than you know. A coworker who's friends of Rex saying, yeah,

423
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 3: Rex was here, you know, do we see him. This

424
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,159
Speaker 3: is in nineteen eighty four, so you know, there was

425
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 3: you know, video surveillance, there's you know, time cards being stamped,

426
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 3: there's you know, probably multiple coworkers. You know, they need

427
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 3: to be able to truly establish Rex was at work

428
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 3: the entire shift, you know, because of course, you know

429
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,399
Speaker 3: it's his wife and her kid that you know is dead.

430
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 3: Wife is gone and Justin is dead. He is going

431
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 3: to be somebody that has to be eliminated very early

432
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 3: on in this case.

433
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: Well before we talk about Rex and suspects and all

434
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 2: of that, let's continue on because there are some other

435
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 2: things that come up. We have a discovery of a body,

436
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 2: and it happens four days after Justin's fire. A farmer

437
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 2: calls the police about fifteen miles away from Justin's mobile

438
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 2: home because there is a woman's body on his property.

439
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 2: It is Sarah, the mother, and just like Justin, her son,

440
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 2: she was killed by blows to the head. This poor family,

441
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 2: I mean, it's terrible.

442
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 3: This starts getting you know, kind of intriguing from I

443
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,919
Speaker 3: think you mentioned that Sarah did go to her son's

444
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 3: that night.

445
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 2: Right, Rex isn't sure, but it would have been her

446
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 2: habit to have done that. He would not be surprised

447
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:49,400
Speaker 2: either way, is what he said.

448
00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 3: Okay, So, if Sarah and Justin are together at Justin's

449
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 3: property and then Sarah is the one that is taken

450
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 3: away from that property by the offenders, you know, that's

451
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 3: significant to me. That tends to indicate to me that

452
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 3: there's an aspect of Sarah, whether it be a sexually

453
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 3: motivated crime or she's targeted for some other reason, but

454
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,200
Speaker 3: she is the primary reason the offenders were at that property.

455
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:20,280
Speaker 2: Justin was eliminated, right, So they start looking for forensic

456
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,480
Speaker 2: evidence around this area where Sarah was found, because you

457
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,040
Speaker 2: remember that there was not very much to be found

458
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 2: at the mobile home where Justin was. So they find

459
00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 2: two sets of shoe prints nearby, and they feel confident

460
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: that these were shoe prints that would have been right

461
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: by the body or right under the body. They for

462
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 2: whatever reason, feel confident that these belonged to the killer.

463
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: Two sets.

464
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 2: So they're saying two men is what they think happened.

465
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: So Rex and someone else or not Rex and two

466
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 2: people we don't know about yet. There are a lot

467
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 2: of possibilities. Even if they're right about these two sets

468
00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,920
Speaker 2: of shoe prints definitively belonging to the killers of Sarah

469
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 2: and probably Justin.

470
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 3: Sure and you know you mentioned they didn't find much

471
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: at Justin's mobile home because it's been burned, right, but

472
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,399
Speaker 3: they still have Justin's body. Justin's body, we know the

473
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 3: offender or offenders very closely interacted with him because he's

474
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 3: bludgeoned to death. His body is a crime scene, you know,

475
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 3: so hopefully, you know, they collected as much evidence from

476
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 3: Justin's body as possible as clothing, body surfaces, fingernails, who

477
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,080
Speaker 3: knows what other evidence may be their trace, as well

478
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 3: as was Sarah's body. You know, she's dumped out in

479
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 3: the middle of field, but this is something we deal with.

480
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 3: It may not be where she was killed, but there's

481
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,360
Speaker 3: a lot of evidence that possibly can be found that

482
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 3: can identify the offenders, you know. So that's where hopefully

483
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 3: they did process these these bodies very thoroughly.

484
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 2: Well, I will say Sarah, they did not find semen

485
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 2: on her. They did not find definitive evidence of sexual assault.

486
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 2: We know that doesn't mean anything, but something that happens

487
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,920
Speaker 2: later on will give us some more clarity on that.

488
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: They believe that Sarah tried to run away because both

489
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 2: of her shoes had fallen off and were in different locations.

490
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,840
Speaker 2: They didn't see any drag marks, and near her body

491
00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: is a small pile of brush that had been splotched

492
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 2: with some dry blood. It seems like they collected it,

493
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 2: but I don't see what they did with it after that.

494
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 2: But they are collecting things, is what I'm trying to say, right.

495
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 3: You know, And part of like when I get involved

496
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 3: with the case, part of what I do is I

497
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 3: take a look at the investigating agency in terms of,

498
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 3: you know, size of agency, their crime rate, the types

499
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 3: of crimes they are used to dealing with. It informs

500
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 3: me about their experience. Do they have dedicated homicide investigators,

501
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 3: do they have general investigators or are they a force

502
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 3: of maybe ten patrol officers and these guys are the

503
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 3: ones responsible for investigating the case. How competent are their csis?

504
00:26:59,480 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 2: You know?

505
00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 3: And then that as I assess the agency, that informs

506
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 3: me of what I possibly can expect and not to

507
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 3: expect in terms of how well the case was handled.

508
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 3: From the very beginning, you brought up that this was

509
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 3: a very rural location, and so my expectation is is

510
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 3: that this investigating agency probably is not used to dealing

511
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 3: with this type of crime. I do know in Iowa sometimes.

512
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 3: In fact, I think in that one case that I

513
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 3: did in Iowa, they recognized their and experience pretty early

514
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 3: on and brought in the state. The issue with that,

515
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 3: oftentimes is that state police, their primary function in many

516
00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 3: states is patrol, patrolling the highways. That's their experience, and

517
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 3: then they're assigned to the violent crime unit and they

518
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 3: have no real experience and they don't handle a lot

519
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 3: of cases because they're just covering the rural areas of

520
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 3: the state.

521
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, at least they're trying.

522
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 2: They're trying to collect physical evidence, which is good and

523
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 2: it's very helpful. Later on, as we move through this story,

524
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: we have Sarah the mother.

525
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: We have Justin the son. We have a fire.

526
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 2: We have Rex, who we'll find out whether or not

527
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 2: he has a confirmed alibi later on.

528
00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: We have one more problem. You remember that I said

529
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 1: that Justin had.

530
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 2: Been married and then divorced, and now he has this

531
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 2: new fiance whose name is Tina.

532
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: She's nineteen years old. Tina is missing too.

533
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 3: This is not sounding good for Tina. Do we know

534
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 3: it was Tina at the property the night of the fire.

535
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 2: We're not sure, but it sure sounds like it because

536
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: they take a look at the farmland where Sarah's body

537
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 2: was found, and two days later, about a half a

538
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 2: mile away from Sarah, they find Tina's body, same method

539
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 2: of murder, heavy blows to the head. She had been

540
00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: sexually assaulted. Yeah, they found semen inside her gene, which

541
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 2: they collected because it will be helpful later on.

542
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 3: Okay, So, with the assumption that Justin, Sarah, and Tina

543
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 3: are all on Justin's property the night of the fire,

544
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 3: the male is killed on site and then the two

545
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 3: females are abducted. I don't know if they were killed

546
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: on site and then their body's dumped or if they're

547
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 3: taken to another location, killed inside a vehicle bodies dumped.

548
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: Who nos. But obviously the females were more of the target,

549
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:33,719
Speaker 3: and with the over sexual acts on Tina, the younger woman,

550
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 3: there does appear to be a targeted sexual motivation towards Tina.

551
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 2: Right, so the case gets very complicated for police. They

552
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: think they have at least a little tiny bit of

553
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 2: a lead. There are shoe prints that are at both

554
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: Tina's location and Sarah's location that appear to match. They

555
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 2: had also at this point found treadmarks from a car

556
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 2: at both locations that appeared to match. I do not

557
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 2: know where they were murdered. I do know that there

558
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 2: was blood at Sarah's location that of course we know.

559
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: That could have just been blood dripping out. It doesn't

560
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 2: mean that's where she was killed. But I'm not sure

561
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,680
Speaker 2: it matters at this point. The big thing is who

562
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: are our suspects? Because I will tell you this, police

563
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 2: said it was not Rex. Okay, they believed it was

564
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 2: two people, and they believed that Rex had a pretty

565
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: airtight alibi with an awful lot of people seeing him.

566
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: So they are now looking at the troublemakers in town.

567
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 2: And I still am in disbelief that there are strangers

568
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 2: out there who would do this as a crime of

569
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: opportunity three people, even if it's two guys and they

570
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: don't have a gun, poll they're using something to bludge

571
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 2: in these people. So the idea of appointing a gun

572
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 2: to control people, I get, But what a baseball bat

573
00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 2: or whatever they used, it just seems pretty risky.

574
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,479
Speaker 3: Well, you know, at this point, even though the victims

575
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,719
Speaker 3: were bludged to death. We don't know every thing about

576
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 3: what the offenders had with them. Who the offenders are?

577
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 3: You have in essence, Justin is twenty years old, you know,

578
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 3: part of victimology with Justin. Just because he's a man

579
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 3: doesn't mean that he's somebody that is willing to fight.

580
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: This is where Okay, is he an mma guy? Is

581
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 3: he very aggressive or is he more of a docile,

582
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 3: more of a passive mail that would probably just if

583
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,040
Speaker 3: he's commanded to do something by two other guys, you know,

584
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 3: he'd just do what they say. So that's part of

585
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 3: the assessment of Okay, how would the offenders have gained

586
00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 3: control of these three adults? And of course having two

587
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 3: men show up at your mobile home and each man

588
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 3: is holding a baseball bat, that is a form of control.

589
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 3: You know. I think those two men would control these

590
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 3: three adults. You know. But now it's in terms of

591
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 3: you know, assessing this case. On one end, of course,

592
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 3: is that the absolute strangers, you know, And this was

593
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 3: they're out on the prow and they ran across this

594
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 3: location and decided they were going to take advantage of

595
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 3: these three people who were well off the beaten path

596
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 3: out on this junkie property. But then you have the

597
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 3: other side, which are the offenders known to any of

598
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,959
Speaker 3: these three victims. Let's say Justin. We don't know much

599
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 3: about Justin. Was he involved in the drug lifestyle, did

600
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 3: he have any gambling debt? What's he involved with? Where

601
00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 3: maybe you have people who have bad intent going out

602
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 3: to his property to maybe confront him. And then Mom

603
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 3: and Tina show up and they're going, you know what,

604
00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 3: not only are we going to get what we want

605
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 3: out of Justin, but now we're going to have our

606
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 3: way with these two women.

607
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you a little bit about Justin and

608
00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 2: Sarah and Tina am Rex just no red flags. Justin

609
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 2: is described as good looking and well liked. You know,

610
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,160
Speaker 2: he got married young, The divorce seemed okay. They have

611
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: a young son together. Tina, the fiance, is nineteen. She's

612
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: described as quiet. She dropped out of high school, works

613
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:06,120
Speaker 2: some odd jobs. Sarah the mom is very hard working,

614
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 2: mother of three, close relationships with everybody. She does not

615
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 2: have any problems. It sounds like with Rex. Rex seems

616
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: like a good guy. Everybody seems to get along. Nobody

617
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 2: had any kind of troubling criminal record, Although Justin had

618
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,719
Speaker 2: a couple of petty theft charges when he was very

619
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: very young, and so of course the police are hoping

620
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 2: that somebody had some sort of red flag and aren't

621
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 2: finding anything, okay, So that complicates things for us. Also,

622
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 2: is where would an enemy come from or is it

623
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,560
Speaker 2: simply a crime of opportunity for somebody who is just

624
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: coming off of this main road and sees an isolated

625
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 2: mobile home and three people potentially inside, including a young woman.

626
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's where you have three investigative paths checking

627
00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 3: into each of the victims social circles, they had, what

628
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 3: they're involved with. Then you have the investigative path of

629
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 3: is this the opportunist that has no relationship to the

630
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 3: three victims. This is where now it is. You know,

631
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 3: these investigators have a lot to do because they are

632
00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 3: going to be going down and trying to identify is

633
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,439
Speaker 3: there a reason and any of these victims pass for

634
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 3: them to have fallen victims and to pursue those leads.

635
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 3: Then you have the other thing that you need to

636
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 3: be doing right away in terms of trying to ascertain

637
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,240
Speaker 3: if this is a crime of opportunity and there's no relationship,

638
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 3: I now need to you know, the canvas has to

639
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:34,600
Speaker 3: be done. You know, do we have any witnesses seeing

640
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 3: a car coming and going? Do they have, you know,

641
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 3: make model description of the car, Do they have any

642
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 3: descriptors of who these people might be? Is there any

643
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 3: you know, video surveillance, you know, businesses along the route

644
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 3: that might have caught something, or gas station you know,

645
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 3: video surveillance. So much work to do. There's a lot

646
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,640
Speaker 3: of footwork that needs to be done in this case early.

647
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,480
Speaker 2: On, and they seem to be trying to do it.

648
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: So to me, this is the benefit and the detriment

649
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 2: of being in a small town area where we're even

650
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 2: not talking about a town. We refer to this as

651
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,440
Speaker 2: a county, Wapello County, which I think means it's probably

652
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:11,520
Speaker 2: pretty small at this point. The good part of this

653
00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 2: small county is that the police know all of the troublemakers.

654
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 2: The bad thing about the small county is police know

655
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 2: all of the troublemakers, and you could get yourself locked

656
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 2: in on a troublemaker, which is what happens. There's a

657
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 2: man named Andrew six. He is a local troublemaker, bad boy.

658
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: He's been involved in a lot of different burglaries and

659
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 2: he's on the radar because he finds out that he

660
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 2: and Justin have been arguing over payment of a vehicle.

661
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 2: So my belief from that is that Justin had some

662
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 2: vehicles on the property and they were perhaps arguing over that.

663
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: But we do know that.

664
00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: Andrew six knows Justin. We don't know if he knows

665
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:57,799
Speaker 2: Sarah and Tina. But there is this rumbling of a

666
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 2: dispute and they say that this shoe print left on

667
00:36:03,440 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 2: the farmland matches a shoe print owned by Andrew six.

668
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: And I don't know if there's I mean, we've talked

669
00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 2: about this before. If everybody's wearing Nike, how are you

670
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:17,440
Speaker 2: really going to use that as any kind of evidence whatsoever.

671
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 2: And I don't think this is a guy who's ordering

672
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: French loafers.

673
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 3: Shoe impressions out where these bodies are located rarely have

674
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:29,879
Speaker 3: the detail in order to identify the shoes specifically, where

675
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:35,240
Speaker 3: all the various individualizing characteristics are present within that tread

676
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,320
Speaker 3: pattern are replicated within the impression itself. So chances are

677
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 3: the best that they could say is that, well, he

678
00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 3: owns the same make, model shoe of the approximate same size.

679
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 3: But is this the Bruno Mauley, like in the OJ

680
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 3: Simpson case, in which only two hundred pairs were ever made. Yeah,

681
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 3: or you know, are these Nike air blah blah blah

682
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,760
Speaker 3: and which there's millions chances are it's probably a fairly

683
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,240
Speaker 3: an athletic shoe or whatever type of shoe that. Yeah,

684
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 3: you don't dismiss it, but it's something that's not really strong.

685
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:06,880
Speaker 1: You know.

686
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 2: Andrew said, Yes, we argued over money. It is not

687
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: a big deal. I'm sorry, the guy's dead. I've never

688
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,040
Speaker 2: met anybody else, and stop harassing me. And I absolutely

689
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 2: understand that, because they actually had a long list of

690
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: people to harass. And eventually the sheriff gives up because

691
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 2: they were never able to make a case. And this

692
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 2: case goes cold with these three dead people, with Justin

693
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 2: and Sarah and Tina in nineteen eighty four, and it

694
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 2: is of course very frustrating to the people in this county,

695
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 2: and it's very frustrating for Rex, who has now seen

696
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: two people and a future daughter in law murdered, so

697
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 2: this has become a source of frustration. This is also

698
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 2: when things take a turn in that first investigation, unfortunately,

699
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 2: because of another pretty terrible investigation that comes up. So

700
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 2: years after this happens. It happened in nineteen eighty four.

701
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 2: Now we're talking about nineteen eighty seven. Still in Wapello

702
00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 2: County in Iowa. Three years after that triple homicide went cold,

703
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 2: there's another incident in a home in nineteen eighty seven.

704
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 2: Two men driving a station wagon pull into the driveway

705
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 2: of the Allens, who are Donald and Janet, and they

706
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: are in a mobile home park called Hidden Valley Mobile

707
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,240
Speaker 2: Home Park. They knock on the door. It's ten o'clock.

708
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 2: The family's asleep, and they come and say. These two

709
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 2: men say, we want to test drive this pickup truck

710
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 2: that the Allens are desperate to sell because Donald Allen

711
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 2: needs to have open heart surgery in Texas. He had

712
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,640
Speaker 2: recently had a heart attack, and they didn't have any money.

713
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,880
Speaker 2: So they have been really trying to sell this pickup

714
00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 2: truck and they were desperate, and so Donald was still

715
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,879
Speaker 2: trying to recover from this heart attack. And his wife

716
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 2: Janet says, I will take you guys for a test

717
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,279
Speaker 2: dr inexplicably at ten pm. But that should show you

718
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,879
Speaker 2: how desperate they were for this money. Boy, somebody drives

719
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,319
Speaker 2: up to your mobile home at ten PM. That just

720
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 2: seems like a disaster, but she did it.

721
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 3: So Janet gets in the vehicle with these two men

722
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: right in her own vehicle, the truck that they're trying

723
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 3: to sell.

724
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: Right okay, and the man is driving and by the

725
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 2: time they return back to the mobile home, the men

726
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:27,120
Speaker 2: are holding a knife to Janet's throat and they've used

727
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,400
Speaker 2: duct tape to bind her arms behind. Donald has been worried.

728
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 2: He gets himself out of bed, despite still trying to

729
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,400
Speaker 2: recover from this heart attack. He's in front of the

730
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,680
Speaker 2: house waiting for her to come back, and of course

731
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,160
Speaker 2: he is overpowered by the men and they bind his

732
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 2: arms also. The men go inside the house. These two

733
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 2: guys go inside the house. They find Donald and Janet's

734
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: teenage daughter and she is six months pregnant, and they

735
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: sexually assault her while also robbing the house. There is

736
00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 2: another child in the house who is a twelve years

737
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,880
Speaker 2: named Kathy Allen. She's a special education student at the

738
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 2: local elementary school and she is of course the daughter

739
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: of the Allen's. She wakes up, she's terrified. The offenders

740
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,400
Speaker 2: scream at Janet and Donald and say tell her to

741
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 2: shut up. Janet tries to calm Kathy down, doesn't particularly work.

742
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 2: The men try to get the family inside their station wagon.

743
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 2: We don't know why, but Christine, the teenage daughter, and

744
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 2: Donald break away from the attackers and they run to

745
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 2: get help from the neighbors.

746
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,520
Speaker 1: The men turned to Janet and they.

747
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 2: Slash her throat with a knife. She falls to the

748
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 2: ground and they grab Kathy, the little girl, and they

749
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:44,120
Speaker 2: take off. So now you've got Janet on the ground.

750
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 2: She survives having her throat cut. She's taken to the

751
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,880
Speaker 2: hospital and she survives, and the neighbors say it was

752
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 2: the worst thing they had ever seen. But now their

753
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: twelve year old daughter is gone. Let's talk about the

754
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 2: identity of the men, because they are known. Janet and

755
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 2: Donald knew who they were because they were both people

756
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,000
Speaker 2: from the county. One of them was forty nine year

757
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:11,439
Speaker 2: old Donald Peterry and then he along with him, had

758
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 2: his nephew who was a twenty two year old named

759
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 2: Andrew six. So this was the suspect from three years ago.

760
00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. Interesting, I'm going to make an assumption and probably

761
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 3: I shouldn't, but you know, this is the way these

762
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 3: episodes play out. I'm going to assume that the nineteen

763
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 3: eighty four and the nineteen eighty seven cases are related.

764
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:39,799
Speaker 3: We have mobile homes in both cases. We have abduction

765
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 3: of female in both cases, two men in both cases

766
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 3: based off shoe impression evidence in the first case. There

767
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 3: is a dispute over a vehicle payment for a vehicle

768
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 3: in the first case, and there is this maybe a

769
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 3: ruse that the offenders used in the second case, the

770
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 3: sale of a vehicle. So I'm seeing now a pattern.

771
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,520
Speaker 2: Yes, And it sounds like Andrew knows everybody. I don't

772
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 2: know how familiar he is with Janet and the two

773
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,120
Speaker 2: kids and even Donald, but they knew him. They were

774
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,960
Speaker 2: able to identify who he was just because he was right. Again,

775
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,640
Speaker 2: a benefit of being in a small area, small community,

776
00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:23,319
Speaker 2: as people know each other. So the police reports to

777
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 2: Andrew's home and he has a common law wife named Betty.

778
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 2: She says that Andrew just stopped by the house and

779
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 2: switched cars. So both he and his uncle are now

780
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 2: in this Mercury Links car and they had a girl

781
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 2: with them that Betty didn't recognize.

782
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:41,400
Speaker 1: We know that girl was Kathy.

783
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 2: Law enforcement are tipped off, and you know, people in

784
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,279
Speaker 2: Missouri and Texas are tipped off because there's family there too,

785
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 2: and they are just trying to figure out where these

786
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 2: guys are headed. Andrew six and his uncle are caught

787
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 2: the very next day in Texas, and while they are

788
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:02,959
Speaker 2: being held by police, they say Kathy Allen is dead,

789
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 2: the twelve year old, and they give a location for

790
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 2: where she is, and that is in Missouri. They attempted

791
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:15,240
Speaker 2: to sexually assault her. They dumped her body in Missouri,

792
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: and a highway patrolman found Kathy's body on a dirt

793
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 2: road about twenty miles from the Iowa border in Missouri

794
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 2: and she is lying face down in a ditch covered

795
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 2: with blood. And I'm not going to get into more.

796
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 2: I have a lot of other details, but they're not necessary.

797
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 3: No, Okay, So they I'm assuming are arresting Andrew and

798
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 3: his uncle. Yep, they're basically confessing caught red handed in

799
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 3: the nineteen eighty seven case surviving attempt homicide victim Janet

800
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 3: the husband Donald he survived as well, he did, yes, okay, yeah,

801
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 3: So I mean this is an open and shutcase because

802
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 3: you have living primary victims in this case. So now

803
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 3: they need to tie the uncle and Andrew to the

804
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:03,280
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty four case.

805
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 2: They're worried more about nineteen eighty seven right now, and

806
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 2: I want them to tie these two guys to the

807
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four case. But in eighty seven they go

808
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 2: on trial for Kathy's murder. So here's what's quirky. I

809
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:22,399
Speaker 2: guess Kathy was presumably murdered in Missouri where they found

810
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: the body. So the men go on trial in Missouri. Missouri, sure,

811
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 2: Missouri has a death penalty. Iowa did not, and so

812
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 2: both men are sentenced to death once they're convicted. You know,

813
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 2: before Andrew six's execution, I will police try to get

814
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,840
Speaker 2: him to talk about the nineteen eighty four triple homicide

815
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 2: of the mom and the son and the fiance, and

816
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: he said, I don't know what you're talking about, and

817
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,000
Speaker 2: I'm not going to discuss it with you. But it

818
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 2: is just torturous to Rex and the family and to

819
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,719
Speaker 2: the people in the area. They need healing, even though

820
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,439
Speaker 2: he is getting ready to be executed for Kathy's death.

821
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,719
Speaker 2: So in nineteen ninety seven, I mean, boy, that just

822
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,759
Speaker 2: shows you. Ten years after his conviction, Andrew's thirty two

823
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 2: years old and he's executed in nineteen ninety seven, by

824
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 2: lethal injection. It just always reminds me how long it

825
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,240
Speaker 2: takes for this process to go through.

826
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:15,720
Speaker 1: Ten years, he's on death.

827
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 3: Row, and in many states that process is even so

828
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 3: much longer. I was actually surprised when you said he

829
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 3: was coming up for execution within ten years, to be frank,

830
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 3: you know. But now, of course he's not cooperating related

831
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 3: to the nineteen eighty four case. Is the uncle the

832
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:36,919
Speaker 3: uncle is execution hasn't occurred yet.

833
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,439
Speaker 2: He actually died of health complications in nineteen ninety eight,

834
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 2: so he was still on death row.

835
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,239
Speaker 3: Okay, so here now it's going to be based upon

836
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,560
Speaker 3: physical evidence to try to tie the uncle and Andrew

837
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 3: to the nineteen eighty four case.

838
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 2: Yes, so I'll just tell you to wrap up the execution.

839
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: He was executed by lethal injection. Janet Allen, you know

840
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 2: the woman who he slashed her wrote, drove seven hours

841
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 2: to watch this execution happen. And I said the uncle

842
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,640
Speaker 2: had died of health complications the next year. So there's

843
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 2: no justice for the people in this area, for these

844
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: three people who were murdered in nineteen eighty four. And

845
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 2: everyone's convinced that Andrew six, who is now dead, is involved,

846
00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 2: and it goes cold until twenty eleven and a cold

847
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 2: case unit in Iowa takes another look at the case,

848
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 2: and in twenty twelve they had a well preserved seamen

849
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 2: sample that we talked about from Tina Lottie's genes and

850
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:41,359
Speaker 2: they send it to the DCI Criminalistics Laboratory for further analysis.

851
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,360
Speaker 1: What is that? What is the DCI Criminalistics Laboratory? Do

852
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 1: you know it?

853
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 3: Well, it's Division of Criminal Investigation is probably what DCI

854
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 3: stands for, So that would be the Iowa State Division

855
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 3: of Criminal Investigation. And then they have a forensic science

856
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:56,880
Speaker 3: component underneath that.

857
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 2: Well, apparently Andrew six had been forced to give up

858
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 2: his DNA after his nineteen eighty seven arrest, so it

859
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 2: was on file and when the results come back from

860
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 2: the semen sample taken from Tina's jens, it was a match.

861
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:15,720
Speaker 2: They said that the DNA profile belonged to Andrew six.

862
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 2: So there's the tie. The genesis of this was this

863
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,840
Speaker 2: dispute over money. It sounds like that's what brought Andrew

864
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: to the trailer that night to see these three people,

865
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 2: and all of this came from this encounter, and maybe

866
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 2: he had been thinking about it. I don't know, but

867
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 2: it sounds like that really was a trigger.

868
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 1: Was this argument.

869
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 3: It would be interesting to see if the uncle and

870
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 3: Andrew I now had you know, other robbery victims, you know,

871
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 3: where they basically committed a similar crime without doing the abduction,

872
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 3: the sexual assault to homicide. And then with this this

873
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 3: one case in nineteen eighty four, they go there just

874
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 3: expecting Justin and there's these two women and they take

875
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,680
Speaker 3: out Justin and take Sarah and Tina, you know, in

876
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 3: order to be able to sexually assault them and then

877
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 3: kill them. And then three years later, maybe during a

878
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 3: robbery spree, it appears that they were going to let

879
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:20,320
Speaker 3: Janet and Donald off right, but then the young girl

880
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 3: becomes available.

881
00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 2: Well remember the big fight outside the car. They were

882
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 2: trying to get everybody in the car. I have no

883
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,759
Speaker 2: idea why they wanted everybody in the station wagon. So

884
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 2: the teenager who they had sexually assaulted Donald and Janet,

885
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 2: the parents and Kathy and the teenager and Donald both

886
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 2: broke away and went in different directions to alert the neighbors.

887
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 2: And then they grabbed Kathy and tried to kill Janet.

888
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 2: So my question mark is the uncle because there's no

889
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,279
Speaker 2: DNA from him anywhere, So I wonder if he was

890
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 2: there in eighty four. I know they found two sets

891
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 2: of shoe prints. I'm not sure I buy that all together.

892
00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 2: And it doesn't seem like there's any car of DNA

893
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,919
Speaker 2: evidence left behind from the uncle, So I don't know.

894
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,479
Speaker 3: I would assess from Afar that the uncle is likely

895
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 3: the ring leader. He's the one that's calling the shots.

896
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:17,280
Speaker 3: And here in nineteen eighty four, you have three adults here.

897
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 3: You know, you have a nineteen year old kid, Andrew

898
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 3: showing up at Justin's place. There's three adults. I have

899
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 3: a feeling, in all likelihood the uncle was there. The

900
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,400
Speaker 3: uncle saw, you know, saw something in his nephew Andrew,

901
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 3: where hey, we can go and commit crimes together. Maybe

902
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 3: this was the first one, or maybe Andrew said, hey,

903
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 3: I'm having this beef with this other kid, and the

904
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 3: uncle says, well, we're going to go handle that. And

905
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,040
Speaker 3: at this point he's a full fledged adult. You know,

906
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 3: he's in his early thirties, thirty five, mid thirties. You know,

907
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:52,360
Speaker 3: he probably has a fairly significant criminal history, whether or

908
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:54,920
Speaker 3: not it's recorded, you know, on his rap sheet, but

909
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,800
Speaker 3: he probably has been committing crimes during his adult life

910
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,359
Speaker 3: and is like, I'm going to show my nephew how

911
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 3: it's done. And then they show up and you know,

912
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,560
Speaker 3: they kill Justin and take the two women. That's what

913
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 3: I think. Now, did the uncle participate in any of

914
00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:13,720
Speaker 3: the sexual assault? It's possible, you know, but it's also

915
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,240
Speaker 3: possible he didn't. Who knows.

916
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:16,240
Speaker 1: Who knows.

917
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:18,919
Speaker 2: We just know that you've got two families that are

918
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 2: devastated by what these two guys did and it was

919
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:26,680
Speaker 2: absolutely terrible and it haunted this area. And thank goodness

920
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 2: you have in nineteen eighty four, you have people preserving

921
00:50:30,680 --> 00:50:33,319
Speaker 2: you know, this kind of evidence because you can look

922
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,560
Speaker 2: at this and say, well, he's dead, he's been convicted,

923
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 2: he's been executed. Why does it matter? And it does matter,

924
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,000
Speaker 2: and we talk about this in our cases. It does matter,

925
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 2: and it matters to the families, whether they're around or not.

926
00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 2: It matters to the community too.

927
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 3: What absolutely does. And just because you have two you know,

928
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 3: you have similar crimes, and you have this seemingly you know,

929
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 3: this connection with Andrew showing up in both crimes and

930
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 3: he's convicted of one on you can't just close the

931
00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,120
Speaker 3: eighty four case just because while it's similar and Andrews

932
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 3: and both. You still need to prove the case. And

933
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:11,880
Speaker 3: it's important just from a public safety standpoint because I

934
00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 3: have seen I fallen victim to this as well in

935
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 3: terms of making assumptions that cases are related because they're

936
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 3: in the same area at the same time and they

937
00:51:19,760 --> 00:51:22,720
Speaker 3: are similar, and it turns out they're not. You still

938
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 3: have to go through and try to prove the case

939
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:30,239
Speaker 3: to a certain level where you're confident, yes, Andrew is

940
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 3: the one that committed the nineteen eighty four case, and

941
00:51:32,360 --> 00:51:34,439
Speaker 3: his uncle likely is involved too, even though you don't

942
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 3: have the DNA linking the uncle, but the families want

943
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 3: that answer.

944
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,720
Speaker 2: This case was something else. Thank you for your insight.

945
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 2: As always, this was less forensics, more just who would

946
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,839
Speaker 2: have done this and what were they thinking and how

947
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:52,920
Speaker 2: haphazard it was, and finally getting some sort of sense

948
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:54,439
Speaker 2: of justice at the very end.

949
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know. And this is just where here you

950
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 3: have these two men, like you said, they devastate to

951
00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,799
Speaker 3: two families, and it's just like why for what? And

952
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 3: in some ways this is where you just see there

953
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,120
Speaker 3: are these evil people out there that will just commit

954
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:10,480
Speaker 3: horrific crimes.

955
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 2: Yep, And we purposely don't have information on Andrew six

956
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,480
Speaker 2: in his background, just because I can't empathize.

957
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: In any way with somebody who would do this. So

958
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:20,400
Speaker 1: thank you, Paul.

959
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 2: Hopefully we have another case that we can help solve

960
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 2: together next week.

961
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:26,600
Speaker 3: All right, I'm looking forward to it.

962
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production for.

963
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 3: Our sources and show notes go to exactly Rightemedia dot

964
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 3: com slash Barrybones Sources.

965
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Alexis Emirosi.

966
00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 3: Research by Maren mcclashan and Kate Winkler Dawson.

967
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,399
Speaker 1: Our mixing engineer is Leanna Scuilacci.

968
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 3: Our theme song is by Tom Bryfogel.

969
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 1: Our artwork is by Vanessa Lilac.

970
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:58,760
Speaker 3: Executive produced by Karen Kilgariff, Georgia hard Stark, and Daniel Kramer.

971
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 2: You can follow Barry Bones on Instagram and Facebook at

972
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:03,640
Speaker 2: Barry Bones Pod.

973
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,680
Speaker 3: Kate's most recent book, All That Is Wicked, a Gilded

974
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:08,680
Speaker 3: Age story of murder and the race to decote the

975
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 3: criminal mind, is available now, and

976
00:53:11,040 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 2: Paul's best selling memoir Unmasked, My life Solving America's Cold

977
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,160
Speaker 2: Cases is also available now