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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from coast to coast AM on iHeartRadio. Well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk with you about a lot of

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Speaker 1: things tonight. But what is your definition of forgiveness? Well,

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Speaker 1: that is a very interesting question. I have an operational definition,

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Speaker 1: which is if you are doing what you think and

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Speaker 1: really honestly feel is forgiveness, and your alpha brain waves

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Speaker 1: are increasing, then you are doing effective forgiveness. Are there

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Speaker 1: many different ways to forgive? Well, at one point George

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Speaker 1: Gallup undertook to do surveys of Americans on forgiveness. He

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Speaker 1: did it every few years, spurred in part by his

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Speaker 1: friend Sir John Templeton, who actually had a foundation dedicated

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Speaker 1: to forgiveness, made grants some things. And so I had

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Speaker 1: the privilege of reading the details of one of George

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Speaker 1: Gallup's holes on forgiveness among Americans, and eighty percent of

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Speaker 1: Americans rated forgiveness as extremely important. When the choices were zero,

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Speaker 1: if not at all, want a little too, is moderately,

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Speaker 1: three is quite a bit, and four was extremely Eighty

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Speaker 1: percent said it was extremely forgiveness extremely important. But then

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Speaker 1: Gallup went further to ask them if they could do it,

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Speaker 1: and eighty five percent of those who knew it was

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Speaker 1: extremely important said no, they could not do it on

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Speaker 1: their own. Prayer didn't wasn't effective, asking for help wasn't effective.

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Speaker 1: Of the things they asked about, and he didn't ask

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Speaker 1: about the BIOS Forgiveness program. Of the things he asked about,

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Speaker 1: there was only one thing that they found was effective

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Speaker 1: in making forgiveness happen, and that was meditative prayer. That's

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Speaker 1: interesting when you put the verb adver meditative in front

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Speaker 1: of any verb like meditative swimming, meditative garden, meditative fishing,

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Speaker 1: what I see are more alpha waves. So in a sense,

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Speaker 1: George Gallup has told us that the only way to

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Speaker 1: have effective forgiveness is to have increasing alpha waves. We're

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Speaker 1: going to talk about forgiveness with some examples. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to throw your way, Jim and get your reaction to it.

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Speaker 1: But sure does forgiveness? Is it supposed to make the

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Speaker 1: forgiver feel better? Well, it has nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: the person you're forgiving. They can be dead and maybe

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Speaker 1: you don't even tell them that you're forgiving them. But yes,

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Speaker 1: it removes the pain in your heart, eliminates the anger

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Speaker 1: and the bitterness that is ultimately very self destructive, and yes,

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Speaker 1: it makes you feel free, happy, wonderful. Well, let's talk

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Speaker 1: about some examples of forgiveness. Somebody lies to you. You know,

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Speaker 1: I could forgive that, You know, I could forgive that.

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Speaker 1: Somebody steals from you. I could probably forgive that too.

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Speaker 1: Somebody as a drunk driver and kills a member your family. Sadly,

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Speaker 1: I could probably forgive that too. Somebody intentionally goes out

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Speaker 1: and rob somebody and kill someone. Remember my family. I

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Speaker 1: don't think I can forgive that. Now. Does that mean

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Speaker 1: there's something wrong with me? No, it just means that

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Speaker 1: one you don't know how to do deep forgiveness, and

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Speaker 1: you don't realize how holding onto the angriness and the

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Speaker 1: bitterness is harming you, whereas forgiving them would release that

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Speaker 1: pain from you and allow you to be more loving

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Speaker 1: and kind to yourself and to those around you. What

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Speaker 1: about an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth,

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Speaker 1: I would make me feel better. Well, you know, we

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Speaker 1: often talk about sarcasm at biocybernat like sarcasm we call

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Speaker 1: a dishonest form of hostility in ordinary human interactions. If

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Speaker 1: person A does or says something bad to person be

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Speaker 1: everybody understands if that person strikes back, it's not turning

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Speaker 1: the other cheek, but energetically it's kind of balanced. But

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Speaker 1: in sarcasm, person A says or does something bad to

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Speaker 1: person B, and then when person B goes to strike back,

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Speaker 1: PERSONEE does a second bed thing and messes with person

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Speaker 1: be's mine, saying, oh, what's the matter. Can't you take

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Speaker 1: a joke? Kaha? So now person B has been hurt,

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Speaker 1: and now they're also confused and wondering whether they were

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Speaker 1: wrong to realize they were hurt. So yeah, it is

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Speaker 1: balanced for nine and so on. But in fact, we

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Speaker 1: all know about karma, and maybe I should tell you

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Speaker 1: a story about a horrific thing that a person forgave. Okay, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have fun with calls next hour because I

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Speaker 1: love that they're going to come out of the woodwork

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Speaker 1: for you. Well, I for one year in nineteen ninety six,

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Speaker 1: I had a satellite training center in Rowley, North Carolina,

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Speaker 1: kind of a hotbed of the Klu Klux Klan, and

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Speaker 1: I had a woman brought in by her lady psychologist

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Speaker 1: who came with her. She was a multiple personality. Her

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Speaker 1: father was the Klu Klux Klan leader, and starting when

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Speaker 1: she was three, he began sexually abusing her and having

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Speaker 1: the other clan members also sexually abuse her. With that guy, well,

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Speaker 1: she fractured into twelve different personalities, some males, from female

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Speaker 1: to escape and everything else. I guess yeah, And when

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Speaker 1: the abuse was coming, the girl personalities would run back

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Speaker 1: and hide, and the boy personalities to come forward and

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Speaker 1: sort of handle it. Well. When she was fifteen, the

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Speaker 1: boy personalities ganged up and made her run away from home.

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Speaker 1: She hit out with relatives. Her father was furious. He

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Speaker 1: would send threatening letters you have to come back and

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Speaker 1: serve the clan. And no, I didn't know any of this.

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Speaker 1: I just knew that she was a multiple. And I

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Speaker 1: found this out on the morning of third day when

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Speaker 1: my technician was putting on her brainway of feedback electrodes,

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Speaker 1: and I said, well, of course you want to forgive

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Speaker 1: your father. She exploded out of the chair, stood there

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Speaker 1: shouting and screaming, shaking her fists, yelling that blankety blank

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Speaker 1: blank doesn't deserve my forgiveness. And I couldn't get a

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Speaker 1: word in EDG twice because she was yelling so much.

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Speaker 1: But at one point she yelled herself out so much

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Speaker 1: she had to like take a deep breath. And during

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Speaker 1: that time I shouted, I didn't say, you should tell him,

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Speaker 1: and one of the twelve personalities giggled it thought it

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Speaker 1: was funny, and I said, yeah, don't tell him. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he'd take it as a sign of weakness. But look

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Speaker 1: at you. Your beat red, your blood pressures off the charts,

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Speaker 1: You've got adrenaline courts, all poisonous chemicals coursing to your

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Speaker 1: Bloke's going to be hours for that to clear. And

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Speaker 1: why all you have to do is forgive your father,

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Speaker 1: and the thought of him, the memory of him, can

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Speaker 1: no longer harm you. And so she initially reluctantly agreed,

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Speaker 1: and each day, as she did forgiveness, the multiple personality

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Speaker 1: circled in and joined a core personality, and by the

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Speaker 1: end of the week, this twelve person alter multiple personality

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Speaker 1: was a single whole being, to the absolute astonishment of

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Speaker 1: her Lady Psychologists, who was there with her all the time,

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Speaker 1: and then for years afterwards, she sent me. She called

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Speaker 1: me on Mother's Day to thank me for having given

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Speaker 1: birth to the integrated person that she now wants. Now,

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Speaker 1: does forgiveness mean Jim that you have to have an

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Speaker 1: ongoing social relationship with the person you're forgiving, not at all.

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Speaker 1: In fact, one time I had a woman in training

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Speaker 1: whose husband was a pediatrician. They had a two year

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Speaker 1: old daughter. She found out her husband was sexually abusing

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Speaker 1: their daughter. So, acting on women's intuition, she secretly installed

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Speaker 1: surveillance cameras in his medical offices and filmed evidence of

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Speaker 1: him sexually abusing every little girl who came through. So

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Speaker 1: she filed a lawsuit against him to have his medical

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Speaker 1: degree taken away, and she filed for divorce. And in

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Speaker 1: this state, she's now in her sovern or training and

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Speaker 1: she says, well, well, if I forgive him to have

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Speaker 1: to drop the lawsuit, I say absolutely not. You need

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Speaker 1: to protect other little girls, You need to other children.

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Speaker 1: You need to have his medical license taken away, he

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Speaker 1: needs to be put in jail for the rest of

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Speaker 1: his life, exactly exactly. But you can still forgive them

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Speaker 1: because that way you don't suffer. Yes, I can't do that. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's actually hard to conceive unless you're in an alpha state.

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Speaker 1: This is why the forgiveness is only effective under conditions

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Speaker 1: of rising alpha. See I don't think I've been tested

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Speaker 1: to the point where I have to make that kind

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Speaker 1: of decision. You know, the forgiveness I've done, it's been

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Speaker 1: relatively small compared to some of the examples you've given me.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes people will decide not to let me. That's rare.

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Speaker 1: But let me give you an example. I had for

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Speaker 1: a while a training center in Canada where we trained

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Speaker 1: over two hundred Canadian Aboriginal people on scholarship from a

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Speaker 1: Canadian philanthropist. Because of the terrible racial and other abuse

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Speaker 1: that they endured, they as a people have as much

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Speaker 1: post traumatic stress disorder as many returning war veteran would.

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Speaker 1: That eighty percent of all the male Canadian Aboriginals have

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Speaker 1: been sexually abused, and in some of the tribes it's

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent. So at one point the scholarship sponsors said, well,

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Speaker 1: you should have a science board, and I go, fine,

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Speaker 1: let's bring in some Aboriginals. And so we brought in

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Speaker 1: some Aboriginal university professors. One of them taught at the

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal University, First Nations University, and I was introduced to

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Speaker 1: a very prestigious professor and Eastern Canada who had won

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Speaker 1: millions of dollars worth of grants, and you know, he

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Speaker 1: read up on bios vhat and then he said, well,

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Speaker 1: doctor Hart may have a phone call with you. So

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Speaker 1: we talked and because he was deciding whether he would

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Speaker 1: come on the board, and he said, now when I,

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Speaker 1: of course I have to do your training in order

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Speaker 1: to be on your board, would I have to forgive

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Speaker 1: white people? And I said, well, you know, no, you

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Speaker 1: don't have to forgive anyone. But when you see in

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Speaker 1: the trainees around you, because it's done in small groups,

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Speaker 1: how effective the forgiveness is and how beneficially their lives

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Speaker 1: are transformed, you may want to forgive white people. And

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Speaker 1: so he said, well, I'm not sure I want to

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Speaker 1: risk doing that, and so he never came for his training.

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Speaker 1: When somebody is a serial killer and kills fifteen people,

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Speaker 1: how do you forgive that? Well, that's a very interesting question.

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Speaker 1: You do it in a high alpha state where you understand,

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Speaker 1: for example, and what's a high alpha state, Well, where

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Speaker 1: you have a large amplitude alpha brainwave activity and you

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Speaker 1: have it relatively continuously, for example, in the superconscious states

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Speaker 1: in yoga and zen somadi, in yoga and Subtorian zen,

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Speaker 1: there's very high alpha waves all over the head and

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Speaker 1: people literally live experience in an altar your reality. And

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Speaker 1: so when you go well, let me give you this example.

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Speaker 1: Let's say you and somebody are having an argument over

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Speaker 1: some minor, you know, infraction of some social rule. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so then go up one hundred feet and look down

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Speaker 1: at the two of you in the building. Then go

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Speaker 1: up a thousand feet and look down at the city,

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Speaker 1: and go up a hundred thousand miles in space, or

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Speaker 1: go out to Pluto and look back at Earth and ask, well, now,

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Speaker 1: how important is that really? Okay, for sure, minuscule exactly, So,

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Speaker 1: depending on the perspective you take. And of course your

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Speaker 1: ego always wants you to learn r at the moment

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Speaker 1: and have to be right according to the ego. Then

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Speaker 1: you know there are feuds, famous feuds that have gone

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Speaker 1: on for generations. If you cannot forgive one hundred percent, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's say you can give forgive a lot, but not everything.

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Speaker 1: What happens to you emotionally brainwave wise, what happens, Well,

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Speaker 1: first of all, there's like a cap on how much

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Speaker 1: happiness you can have. There's a cap on how high

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Speaker 1: your alpha brainwaves can go. And you are vulnerable to

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Speaker 1: a variety of stress related diseases. Really, it just hovers

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Speaker 1: around you. Does How does not forgiving let your guard

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Speaker 1: down like that? Well, let's look at type A personalities. Now,

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Speaker 1: everybody knows that Type A personalities are stressed and anxious,

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Speaker 1: and if you add in a sense of time urgency,

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Speaker 1: it's worse. And if you add in cynicism in the personality,

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Speaker 1: it's almost like a death sentence. So type A personality

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Speaker 1: with time urgency and cynicism is going to drop like fligging,

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Speaker 1: to drop like flies from stress related diseases. And that

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Speaker 1: includes of course heart attacks, cancer, diabetes, everything related to

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Speaker 1: high blood pressure. And so you know, if you're going

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Speaker 1: to be healthy, happy, into very extended age, it's important

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Speaker 1: to do the cleanup work that forgiveness is are you

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Speaker 1: saying though, to forgive everything? Well, forgiving doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: you don't guard against it. For example, like I forgive you,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not going to let you in my house again. Right,

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Speaker 1: I forgive you, but you're not going to become my

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Speaker 1: best friend if I did something to you or your

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Speaker 1: family exactly. Yeah, forgiveness takes the pain out of your

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Speaker 1: heart and out of your mind. That what. You still

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Speaker 1: know that it was wrong, and you still know charmically

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Speaker 1: that that person is going to get their just desserts

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Speaker 1: at some point, but you're not there beating the drum

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Speaker 1: for it to happen right now. Does the person that

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Speaker 1: has done the deed, the dastardly deed, need to know

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Speaker 1: that you have forgiven them? No, they do not, absolutely not,

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Speaker 1: And in some cases it would be counterproductive because they

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Speaker 1: might say or do something sarcastic, and you know then

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Speaker 1: you'd have to forgive that right or not or not, Well,

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Speaker 1: you'd benefit from forgiving that. I often coach my trainees

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Speaker 1: to forgive loved ones that had died, leaving them with

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Speaker 1: a sense of grief. And they said, well, well they

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Speaker 1: had no choice. Yes, that's true, but you're experiencing pain

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Speaker 1: from their leaving, so forgive them for leaving doesn't change

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Speaker 1: the fact that they left, but you no longer suffer

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Speaker 1: about it. I would not blame the person who died,

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Speaker 1: don't blame them except ill let me tell you this though.

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Speaker 1: I'll let me. Let me tell you an example. I

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Speaker 1: had a friend and several years ago who died of

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Speaker 1: a prescription overdose. He was mixing way too much at

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Speaker 1: one time, and he died and I was angry with

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Speaker 1: him for being so foolish. Yeah, but I forgave him

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Speaker 1: for that. Is that a little bit of what you're saying. Oh? Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And to be thorough, if you were in a training

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Speaker 1: here at Barcybernaut, in addition to forgiving him for being

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Speaker 1: so foolish, you'd also forgive yourself for having gotten angry. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: you might even forgive the company that you made the

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Speaker 1: medicine that he took, or maybe even the doctor that

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Speaker 1: didn't cancel him properly in or overprescribed him or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Exactly interesting. Taken that way, that will you cover everyone

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Speaker 1: who's involved in the incident and you clean up your act.

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Speaker 1: Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at

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Speaker 1: one am Eastern, and go to Coast to Coast am

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Speaker 1: dot com for more