1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: West Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio, Ladies and gentlemen. 2 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 2: This is West Love Supreme. 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 3: I'm giving you, guys fear of warning now that if 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 3: you ever complained about my inside baseball. 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 2: Method of interviewing Ben, You're not going to be any 6 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 2: happier with this physical episode. However, if you. 7 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 3: Are a music head and you know your music, and 8 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 3: you know your album credit, and you know your. 9 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: Producers and your legends, love this episode. 10 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 3: First of all, we were just complaining that, you know, 11 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 3: after doing those. 12 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: Four shows together and. 13 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 1: Back in prison again soon counch prison. 14 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 2: I'm saying. 15 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 4: You trapped in the sixties. 16 00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:58,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 17 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 3: I was about to say, France, you're you're currently right now, 18 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 3: you're back in North Carolina. 19 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 4: No, I'm this is not prison for me. 20 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 5: I'm actually doing quite well. 21 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 22 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 3: He actually made it quite clear that you know, this 23 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 3: is he's living the dream right now. 24 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 2: Is. 25 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 4: Yeah. 26 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 5: Man, But you know, but but this was an episode 27 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 5: I really did wish we could have done in personal. 28 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 3: God, if we would have done this in person, this 29 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 3: episode will probably be seven hours. 30 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 4: Right. 31 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:32,759 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying, You're looking well and clear today, 32 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 2: like you you got to share your secret. I worked 33 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:44,040 Speaker 2: out and took a shower. Okay, something like it's fresh. 34 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying? 35 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 3: Like, Bill, our two friends in the corner, you know, 36 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 3: am I looking well? 37 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 4: Yeah? 38 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: Man, you look you look awesome, Steve. 39 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 4: I put on some brown coconut oils for you for 40 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 4: the show. 41 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 2: That's what's up, man, That's what's up? 42 00:01:59,560 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 4: Bill? 43 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: How you doing? So? 44 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 3: You really missed an important episode with Angie Martinez. 45 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 4: By the way, Oh my god? 46 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,160 Speaker 2: Why we took it back to the old school. 47 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 3: I feel like we should only do the in persons, 48 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 3: and we should only do them in certain ways. 49 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 2: And I miss them already and it's been days. Hey man, 50 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: all right? Also, I just like hugging Fonte. I haven't 51 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:27,679 Speaker 2: it was great? Man, my microdve supreme. That'll be the 52 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 2: I have to revitalize myself anyway. Continue. Yeah, so, ladies 53 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,160 Speaker 2: and gentlemen, I will say that. 54 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 3: This I sound like a broken record. This episode has 55 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 3: been a long time coming. 56 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 2: This is I. 57 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:46,119 Speaker 3: Feel like the forty fifth president when he ever does 58 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 3: those like meaningless you know you're about to see the 59 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 3: likes of an episode that you've never seen before. This 60 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 3: this episode's for me. I'm being selfish here, I'm just 61 00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 3: saying it's for me. We've always wanted to this gentleman, 62 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 3: this legendary gentleman on our show. As I said at 63 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 3: the top of the show, sometimes this is the joys 64 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 3: of reading. Now I'm credits of getting to know people, 65 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 3: and you know, I will say that this gentleman's work 66 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:21,080 Speaker 3: is highly ubiquitous and in terms of really just being 67 00:03:22,040 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 3: an important architect in dance culture and in soul culture 68 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 3: and funk culture and disco culture, in bookie culture, in 69 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 3: post bookie culture, of a lot of the bands, a 70 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 3: lot of underground groups that we've danced to throughout the years, 71 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 3: throughout the decades, from Conversion to the Fantastic a Lemes 72 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 3: to Sympho State. Uh, there's log his own Black Ivory 73 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 3: Freak Dazzle. 74 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: Jesus christ, y'all, I can't. 75 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 3: Believe that we have the one and only Leroy Burges 76 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 3: on Questlove Supreme. 77 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 4: Yes, sir, Yeah. 78 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: Long time coming. How are you deceived me? Right now? 79 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 4: Today? Today's the day days, the day aboutely day. This 80 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 4: is the time for it and it's a pleasant and 81 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 4: a joy to be here with you guys. This seems 82 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 4: like it's going to be a lot of fun. 83 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 3: I could already tell you, like, this is going to 84 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 3: be great because you are actually prepared with your microphone. 85 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: It's clear sound. You know, it's not like. 86 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 4: I've been in zoom prison before, so you know, I'm 87 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 4: used to it. So it's good to be here. Thank 88 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 4: you for having me, and thank you for your interest 89 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 4: in me and my work. It's pretty cool your legend. 90 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 2: All right, we're just going to start with the top. 91 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 3: Always start with this question, levery purchase, what was your 92 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 3: first musical memory in life? 93 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 4: Okay, that's easy, that's really really easy. My first musical memory, 94 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:09,119 Speaker 4: when I was but an infant, was hearing my mother's voice. 95 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 4: My mother classically trained contralto, and she used to love 96 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 4: to sing, and when I was born, she was singing 97 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,159 Speaker 4: and given some of the things that was going on 98 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:27,359 Speaker 4: in the household and during her life, she sang through 99 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 4: those things. You know, any amount of the regular amount 100 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,840 Speaker 4: of turmoil that you have in a black family home 101 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 4: in America back in the fifties, right you know? Now, yeah, exactly, 102 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:44,440 Speaker 4: And at that time it was five of us. I 103 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 4: was number four and the fifth was to come. But 104 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 4: I remember her voice, and I remember it being the 105 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 4: most amazing sound and thing for me to latch onto 106 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 4: even before I could speak. My mom let me know 107 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 4: that when I first started learning to speak, I was 108 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:09,920 Speaker 4: singing more than I was speaking. So that's my first 109 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:11,919 Speaker 4: musical memory. My mother's voice. 110 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 3: Can we say that she's responsible for your your silky falsetto? 111 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:25,720 Speaker 4: Well, my mother never really got that right. She didn't. 112 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,039 Speaker 4: I mean, see, it was okay when Smokey and the 113 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 4: Moments and the dell Phonics would do it and Eddie Kendrickson, 114 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 4: but me, no, she never wanted that for me. Oh, 115 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 4: your natural voice are so beautiful. You should always singing 116 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:42,359 Speaker 4: natural And. 117 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, but your falsetto is killer. 118 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 4: Well those were the days, as it was. But she 119 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 4: it took her a minute to get used to that. 120 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 4: And by the time she did, that's when I morphed 121 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 4: into more natural singing and I took the I was 122 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 4: making the transition, taking a hiatus from black ivy and 123 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 4: that old vibe and that old you know, slow jam 124 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 4: thing and moving into my dance period, my my my 125 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 4: disco period, and I made a conscious decision that I 126 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 4: wanted to sing in my natural voice because that's what 127 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 4: was happening. You know, the old James's happening, and Hal 128 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 4: Melvin and the Blue Notes was happening. You wasn't hearing 129 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 4: a lot of uptempo start smoky and moments, you know, 130 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 4: they were still in a slow jam drink. So I 131 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 4: needed to evolve and I felt I felt an energy 132 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 4: pulling me towards a new type of music or what 133 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 4: was happening at that time. So you know, I made 134 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 4: a conscious decision to begin singing in my natural voice, 135 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 4: and surprisingly it's the one that is more most internationally known. 136 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 4: The world embraced it. Lama embraces the full settled thing. 137 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 3: Could you describe the household like with your siblings and 138 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 3: your parents, Like a lot of our guests, especially kind 139 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 3: of the Northeast based guests, they kind of have the 140 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 3: same narrative where like they might have grown up in 141 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 3: a church household where like secular music's not allowed or 142 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 3: that sort of thing. Just like, what was the general 143 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 3: atmosphere of your family and their musical acceptance. 144 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 4: Well, my family, like most African descendive families in New 145 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 4: York City and around the country, spiritually based. So yeah, 146 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 4: church was a part of what you had to do right, 147 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 4: what you had to learn you had to learn to 148 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 4: have a relationship with the Almighty and learn who he was. 149 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 4: So that's what they drummed into your head. But what 150 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 4: I liked about it was the music that you heard 151 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 4: in church and Aquia and so forth and so on, 152 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 4: so that locked me into that vibration. Initially, in the 153 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:10,359 Speaker 4: early part of my life, we were five kids, two parents. However, 154 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 4: my biological father, Leroy Jackson Sr. Passed away when I 155 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,760 Speaker 4: was six years old, and my mother remarried to Morgan 156 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 4: Burgess shortly after that. So that is why I described 157 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 4: myself as Leroy Burgess as opposed my full name is 158 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 4: Leroy O'Neil Jackson Jr. But I described myself as Leroy 159 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 4: Jackson Burgess because I'm the some result of both fathersts right, 160 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 4: one actually conceived me and the other raised me, so 161 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 4: I'm equal parts of their energy. We had a good health. 162 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 4: We lived in Hollanwriver Projects and I went to PS 163 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 4: ninety about four blocks away. Back in the day, when 164 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 4: you had to walk through four or five feet of snow, 165 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 4: it was unheard of to close the schools on you know. 166 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 4: We a snow day was if it was fifteen feet 167 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 4: that would be a snow day, all right, anything below 168 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 4: fifteen feet, you know you're going to get you behind 169 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 4: the school, get to We had a loving family. My 170 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 4: grandparents were famous for they built small churches up and 171 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 4: down the East coast and they were they were the 172 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 4: family that, oh, no, you can't come in here with 173 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 4: you got to come in here with Jesus that if 174 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,200 Speaker 4: you tell them, it's like. But my mom was a 175 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 4: little bit less strict. I mean she took us through church, 176 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 4: Saint Matthew's Baptist Church in our early time. So the spirit, 177 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,160 Speaker 4: you know, and being connected to spirituality was always a 178 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,240 Speaker 4: part of you know, I connected it directly with music. 179 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 4: They were intertwined to me, so you know. But as 180 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 4: you know, growing up, it was a great time to 181 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 4: grow up. That was back when you know, urban families, 182 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 4: black families, African descended families. We were very tight back 183 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 4: in the sixties and fifties and stuff. I mean, it 184 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:18,640 Speaker 4: was just like a village. We were united in a 185 00:11:18,679 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 4: lot of ways and we had the support of each 186 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 4: other much more than say today, and that was one 187 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 4: of the things. Being raised in that type of environment 188 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 4: was just extremely cool. 189 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:31,559 Speaker 2: All right. 190 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 3: So you mentioned Harlem, so I gotta ask about just 191 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 3: your musical memories of Harlem. Do you have any memories 192 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:46,040 Speaker 3: of like Bobby Robinson's Record Store or any early Apollo 193 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 3: shows that you got to witness. 194 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 4: I didn't make it to the Apollo until I performed 195 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,880 Speaker 4: there when Don't Turn Around came out in nineteen seventy one. 196 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 4: I knew there. I was scared of amateur Night because 197 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 4: I've seen them boo people. If that happened to me, 198 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 4: it would crush me forever. And so the very first 199 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 4: time I performed at the Apollo, it was professionally Don't 200 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 4: Turn Around had come out with Black Ivory. But I 201 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 4: felt like I just missed the music period, you know, 202 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 4: the Billie Holiday and Duke Ellington and Count Basie, when 203 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 4: they was all there. Louis Armstrong, I just missed it. 204 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 4: I can't. I was born in nineteen fifty three, so 205 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 4: by the time I was about four or five or 206 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 4: something like that and could interact with my environment, day 207 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 4: was gone. So but their energy, their energy was still there, 208 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 4: and the type of clubs and the people that they 209 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 4: gravitated to they were still around. And so there was 210 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 4: a music that if you listen closely enough, you could 211 00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 4: hear it just butting in the streets in Harlem. You walk, 212 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 4: you know, just walking safe from my hunts fifty first 213 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 4: Street where I lived, to one Hump forty fifth Street 214 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,839 Speaker 4: and back. You'd hear all kinds of music coming from 215 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 4: all kinds of places, and some of the coolest stuff, 216 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 4: some jazzy stuff, some of course African influence stuff. Uh. 217 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 4: And it was just I would I would keep those 218 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:22,880 Speaker 4: things in my head and be bopping around like like 219 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:25,839 Speaker 4: I was. You know, everybody thought I was a little 220 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 4: bit crazy, to say nothing of singing in the streets. 221 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 4: I had no problem just bursting in the song, walking along, 222 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 4: I had no problem. So they started to know that 223 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 4: I was the I was. They called me the singer. Oh, 224 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 4: they go to singer. 225 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 3: So you telling me that at no point as a 226 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 3: five six seven year old, are you ever visiting the 227 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,439 Speaker 3: Apollo Theater just to watch the show or to see fall. 228 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 4: Until I was seventeen, yikes, seventeen. I didn't get to 229 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 4: the Apollo Theater until I was seventeen. 230 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 2: Can you tell me the first record that you owned 231 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:02,960 Speaker 2: or purchased? 232 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I can tell you the first. Well, I 233 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 4: didn't the one that I the first one I purchased, 234 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 4: or the first one I got that made a difference. 235 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 3: All right, So the first record that had an impact 236 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 3: on you, okay, and then the one that you purchased 237 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 3: with your own money. 238 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 4: But this is a little crazy. The first record that 239 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 4: had an impact on me was a record called Tubby 240 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 4: the Tuba. Right. It was a great musical piece that 241 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:38,680 Speaker 4: definitively described the interaction of the orchestra, right, something that 242 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 4: I used to hear all the time on the Nacing 243 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 4: Cold records and the Johnny Matthis records and so forth, 244 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 4: and so many great orchestras doing this great stuff. And 245 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 4: I was like, oh, what part of that? And so forth. 246 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 4: So this record, Tubby the Tuba, it's a children's story, 247 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 4: but within the story they explained what the string section does, 248 00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 4: or they demonstrate what the horn section does and what 249 00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 4: the percussion session does and so forth. I was like, oh, wow, 250 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 4: I get it. Now, I get it. So I can 251 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 4: now listen to records and distinguished pull apart the strings, 252 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 4: pull apart the horns, so forth and so on. So 253 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 4: the very first record that influenced me profoundly was Tubby 254 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 4: the Tube. 255 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,440 Speaker 3: So you're getting entertained, You're getting entertained and you're getting 256 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 3: educated right at the same time of how things work. 257 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 3: That's weird because when songs in the Key of Life 258 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 3: came out, uh, when people purchased the album back in 259 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 3: seventy six, Stevie Wonder included like a twenty four page 260 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 3: booklet that had all these album credits in it. You know, 261 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 3: for most black records, you know, liner notes of that 262 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,400 Speaker 3: caliber really weren't. They weren't accessible, you know, So my 263 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 3: mom would read those that to me like it was a. 264 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 4: I read every single word. I was a line of note. 265 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 4: Fool all right. I'll see back in the days with 266 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 4: the Johnny Mathews albums and so forth, and song Mama 267 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 4: would put on the album or they would put on 268 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 4: the album. I was like, give me the give me 269 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 4: the couple, let me read it, let me see who 270 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 4: on the pad? Oh this, who's this person? Who's this person? 271 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 4: And I'm you know, I kept interrupting my mother and 272 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 4: father from listening to the music that they very much 273 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:22,800 Speaker 4: wanted to hear. But I'm like, who is this? But 274 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 4: I loved reading line of notes because it told me 275 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 4: the story of the album. And and you know, it 276 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 4: gave insight the creative process, and I was like, Oh, 277 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 4: what's in arranger? Yeah, what's in a ranger? What did 278 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 4: that guy do? You know? And having the understanding of 279 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 4: what the different orchestral pieces did. I got my appreciation 280 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 4: for what the rhythm pieces did from listening to jazz, right, 281 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 4: and then hearing that base and oh that's an electric 282 00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 4: piano or matter an acoustic piano. How cool is that? 283 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 4: This is the this type of style on guitar and 284 00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 4: so forth. So I got now I'm making the distinction 285 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 4: between how or Castel works with rhythm and how all 286 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 4: Castle works with jazz, and how the two of them 287 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 4: mess together. So I'm putting on these this is a 288 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 4: little seven year old, six year old brain trying to 289 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 4: put on me stay together right, and when it comes. 290 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 4: I got a lot of information from reading a line 291 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 4: of notes who the songwriter was. These things became important 292 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 4: to me who the songwriter was. That's a great song. 293 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 4: I heard a lot of songs and a lot of 294 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 4: songs though, but this one song, Oh that's great. Who 295 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:36,639 Speaker 4: wrote that? 296 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:37,360 Speaker 3: Right? 297 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 4: So playing that kind of attention to it gave me 298 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 4: great insight and great appreciation to the process, you know, 299 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 4: because I needed to understand how to do it. 300 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:54,400 Speaker 2: The album that you purchased, what was that her? 301 00:17:54,680 --> 00:18:00,919 Speaker 4: Just this is a funny one question. Yeah. Yeah. The 302 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 4: first record you acquired, we acquired, you know what I mean, 303 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 4: the better Wood and uh, I kind of snuck it. 304 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 4: And the first album that I acquired was Abby Road 305 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 4: by the Beatles. Wow, I was a Beatles fan, right, 306 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 4: And my mother sent me to Gimbals. 307 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 2: What do you know about Gimbals? 308 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Gimbals, not Macy's Gimbals. 309 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 2: Gimbals. 310 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 4: Wow. 311 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 2: Okay, you talk my language. Okay. 312 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 4: I was actually I was going to Gimbals and I 313 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 4: was going to the S and H Green Stamp Redemption 314 00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 4: Center to get something from the green stamp that the 315 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 4: screen stamps. Yeah. So she my mother had books and 316 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 4: books and books. She had the catalog where she got 317 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 4: every time. So the places up from Rochester. I live 318 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 4: in Harlem, so there's a couple of trains I have 319 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 4: to take and so forth and so on. So I 320 00:18:58,119 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 4: went up there to get her thing for him. From there, 321 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,000 Speaker 4: pick up something from Gimbals, and I had to stop 322 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 4: in the record department, right, And I acquired the Abbey 323 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 4: Road album and I bought it back and I started 324 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 4: playing it incessantly. I played everything incessantly, really, but I 325 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 4: started playing it incessantly, and nobody really asked me where 326 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 4: did that come on? Where did you get that? But 327 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 4: you know, that was the first album I acquired, Now, 328 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 4: the first album I started getting into the way before 329 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,719 Speaker 4: that because my mother was a member of check this 330 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 4: out the Columbia record that the sixties. 331 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, eleven, Like what was it back in the day? 332 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,880 Speaker 4: Weel records for a penny, Well for a penny as 333 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 4: long as you you know, buy Mom used to she 334 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 4: knew I loved music, and see, like I said, she's 335 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 4: a singer. So she was like, you know, when I 336 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 4: was good, you know, and I've been you know, not misbehaving, 337 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 4: she would say, okay, well you can buy them. You 338 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 4: can pick out one record of the twelve, or you 339 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 4: can pick out two records of the twelve. So I 340 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 4: used to get Temptations, Stevie Wanda, Uh, the Supremes, Uh, 341 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 4: you know, Jerry Butler with one of my favorite albums 342 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,239 Speaker 4: of the Iceman Coming And I used to listen to 343 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,719 Speaker 4: those joints. So those were the first things that I 344 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 4: started listening to, uh, in order to discover who my 345 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 4: musical being was Wow. 346 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 3: Now you mentioned something earlier, and I was gonna let 347 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 3: it slide, but I gotta know because the thing is 348 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 3: is that when you mentioned the S and H green stamps, 349 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 3: probably the only memory that I have of my mother 350 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 3: is my grandmother on my mother's side, is her sitting 351 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 3: at our. 352 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: Table with like thousands and thousands and thousands. 353 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 3: Of those green what were those green like next to 354 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 3: those green stamps and those like Swedish cookies, you know, 355 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 3: the the butter cookies designs that eventually become their storing 356 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 3: spot for sewing, the Datish cookies that after you finished date, 357 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 3: they become like the sewing kit. 358 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 2: Sewing kit. 359 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's the woman's crown Royal bag. What were 360 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 3: those what were those S n H stamps for? 361 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 4: Here's what's up. Basically, you go to the supermarket like 362 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 4: anybody else, right, you buy X amount of grocerites, right 363 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 4: for the money that you spent for those groceries, you 364 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,919 Speaker 4: would get X amount of green stamps and they and 365 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 4: they would give you books that you collected stamps on 366 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 4: stick on the page. So for a song. When you 367 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:05,639 Speaker 4: get your books filled up, right, and you know you 368 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 4: had X amount of books. Well, this vacuum cleaner costs 369 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:17,360 Speaker 4: five books and this rewards and just had to get 370 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 4: up there to the S and H Redemption Center and 371 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 4: pick up with some My mom got all of these 372 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 4: nights little because we went. Every time she went food 373 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 4: shopping for the kids, she'd have like one hundred, you know, 374 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,720 Speaker 4: and so she you know, I was the designating in 375 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 4: the family to go up there and pick up the 376 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 4: sn H green stamp merchandise. 377 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 2: I was the counter. 378 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 3: I would have to count with my she I learned 379 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 3: how to counts. I never knew what they were for. 380 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,400 Speaker 3: I was like, I mean, that's that's probably. 381 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 4: Like they were free stuff, stuff and stuff when it 382 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 4: was good stuff, when it was really really free, right, 383 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 4: They didn't the company needs that supported or that donated 384 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 4: their products to the SNATE factory, you know, for them 385 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 4: to give away. They were advertising for them and promotional 386 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 4: for them. So but you know, I'm coping and you 387 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 4: know stuff that gang. 388 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, I realized that half the items of my house 389 00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 3: must have came from SNH. So, you know, I told 390 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 3: like some of my friends in luminaries and music heads 391 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 3: that you were coming on the show. I have to say, 392 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 3: you're probably the most connected human being. 393 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,080 Speaker 2: I know because the. 394 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: First response that every music head tells me when I'm like, yo, 395 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 3: we're about to get him on the show, they tell 396 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 3: me like, Yo, you know he's related to Tom Bell? 397 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:46,440 Speaker 4: Right? 398 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 1: Yo? 399 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 3: You know he's related to Archie Belle. Right, Yo, you 400 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 3: know he's related to how. 401 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 4: Many the bells? 402 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 5: The bells? 403 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 2: Huh? 404 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 3: So you're trying to tell me that Tom and Robert 405 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,640 Speaker 3: and Ronald of Cool and Gang and Albet of Stacks 406 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,200 Speaker 3: and Archie Bell of it you're all related? 407 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 2: Yes? 408 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 4: Wow? 409 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:11,440 Speaker 2: How come no one has? 410 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know. Listen, we do you do? Well? 411 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 4: He distory with that Patty LaBelle. That's stress common No, no, right, 412 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:35,400 Speaker 4: I thought Patty was the strength, but by Ricky Bell. Yes, okay. 413 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 4: We are all the descendants of an enslaved individual named 414 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:47,479 Speaker 4: Prince Bell from the eighteen twenties and eighteen you know, 415 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 4: eighteen sixties, seventies or something like that. Prince Belle had 416 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,520 Speaker 4: a total of three wives. With each of his wedding 417 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 4: wedding units, he made a bunch of kids. Right. Those 418 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 4: kids became my grandparents and my mom and my dad, 419 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,199 Speaker 4: and the same as two for Tom Bell or the 420 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 4: Bell brothers. From Cool the Gang, Jerry Bell from the 421 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 4: Dads Band, Uh Bell, Al Bell, Ricky Bell from Bell 422 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 4: Bit devou Tom, I. 423 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 2: Was only playing that's real, goddamn. 424 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:31,640 Speaker 4: Outside of the Bell family or Judge Matthis Greg Mathis 425 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 4: is a cousin and the actor Richard Browntree Is, all 426 00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 4: of us are descendants of Prince Bell Bell. 427 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 2: I also heard Betty Right as well. 428 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 4: Betty Right. I met Betty Right and. 429 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 2: Are we relatedly working? 430 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,439 Speaker 4: It's we all? Well, I believe that I believe that 431 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,080 Speaker 4: I'm related to everybody in the world. I mean, well, 432 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 4: I see why. 433 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 2: That's crazy. 434 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, So shout out to our fire purchase who also, 435 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 3: I mean, you know fire right, hyeh. 436 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay player, absolutely yeah, absolutely. 437 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 3: Fire verges who definitely want this episode to happen while 438 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 3: you are connected to everyone. 439 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 4: So when I think about where, you know, was it 440 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 4: I predestined to enter the music industry, I'm kind of 441 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:30,320 Speaker 4: leaning towards feeling like shit because there's so many loom 442 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,879 Speaker 4: nerves in my family that are not just in entertainment 443 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 4: but in music specifically, who have made a definitive monk 444 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 4: on the industry as a whole. So I'm just bringing 445 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 4: up the rear Commons Belding might be real too. I'm 446 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 4: just saying it. 447 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 3: Was predetermined, like your your future was everyone in your 448 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 3: family has singing talent, and it's push the envelope. 449 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 2: That's crazy. 450 00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,879 Speaker 4: Can I just ask who found who first? When did 451 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 4: y'all know that this was the story behind your family? Yeah, 452 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 4: Calm Bell. Back in my when I was very very young, 453 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 4: Alexander four, five and six and stuff like that, he 454 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 4: used to come to the family picnics down like we 455 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 4: used to have down in Jamesburg, New Jersey. We still 456 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 4: have him in the same place every year. He used 457 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 4: to come and I used to follow him around like 458 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,879 Speaker 4: a little public dog, right because he was always talking music. 459 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 4: That was then he stopped coming. Right fift forward to 460 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 4: about somewhere in the nineteen nineties, the Bell the South 461 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 4: Jersey Bell Picnic couldn't happen, so the North Jersey Bell 462 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 4: the Bell Aiken's Picnic happened, and my mother traveled to 463 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 4: that because I was on the road. Right, That's where 464 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 4: my mother met Cools Cool and Robert and Ronald and 465 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 4: all of and Kevin's mother and she was so sing 466 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 4: my sons in the music. Oh so my son he 467 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 4: who's your son black Ibby, who's your son Coonigan? Oh, 468 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 4: we need to do right. So wow. So that's how 469 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 4: they And then a wonderful cousin of mine that I 470 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 4: didn't know. I met her on Facebook. Her name is 471 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 4: Geneva Norman right, and she asked if she was a 472 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,639 Speaker 4: cousin and she relaid, and then she presented me with 473 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 4: a document the Bell family history, going all the way 474 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 4: back to Prince Belle right, and it contained every single 475 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 4: everybody in the whole family, including all my brothers, all 476 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 4: my siblings, all my cousins, all you know. It was 477 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 4: just really a definitive document, sixteen page document that told 478 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,080 Speaker 4: me who everybody was and where everybody was and so 479 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 4: forth and so on. So uh uh. As I proceeded 480 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 4: through life after finding that out, the last one that 481 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 4: I met officially was Betty uh she was called to 482 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 4: the Lord. When when she was called to her ascension, 483 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 4: I met her. The National R and B Music Society 484 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 4: was giving her a Lifetime Achievement award and uh, I 485 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 4: was you know, I was one at president at that 486 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 4: awards presentation, and I walked over to her after she 487 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 4: got the award and I said, congratulations. Was right by 488 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 4: the way, I'm a descendant of Prince Bell. And she 489 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 4: jumped up and said cousin and hub and and and 490 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 4: so you know things like that. That's been my life 491 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 4: to to uh with Jerry Bell from dazz Man and 492 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 4: formerly of new Birth. He was the lead thing on 493 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 4: new Birth. Yes, I'm performed with. 494 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 3: New Birth and I believe didn't he eventually join Cool 495 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 3: in the Gang in eighty seven when JT left, Jerry 496 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:18,680 Speaker 3: Bell was the one that sing led a web Yes, yes, yes, 497 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 3: he Oh that explains it. That explains it. That is 498 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,160 Speaker 3: what yo, because you don't understand when they made an 499 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 3: album nineteen eighty seven or eighty eight, and you know 500 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 3: JT had left the group and they did an appearance 501 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 3: on Soul Train and Don was trying to put you 502 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 3: and two together, like, wait. 503 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,760 Speaker 2: Where I know you from? Where I know you from? 504 00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 2: He said, oh man, that's been and that is wow. 505 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 2: Okay their cousins. 506 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, that is crazy. 507 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 2: Okay, So what's the story long? 508 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 3: Because I know that the group started when you were 509 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 3: young and your teens and whatnot. How did you meet 510 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 3: with Stuart and Russell, your your bandmates in Black Ivory, 511 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 3: Stuart Bascom and Russell Russell or Patterson. 512 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 4: We're talking about nineteen sixty eight, and that's when your 513 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 4: family mate, I was fourteen. That's the year that your 514 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 4: mom said, no, you're gonna go out and get You're 515 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 4: gonna get the summer job and get start making your 516 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 4: own money so you can get to you know. So 517 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 4: I got some job and I worked at Saint Charles 518 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 4: Baumeo as a youth counselor. For I was a fourteen 519 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:40,160 Speaker 4: year old taking care of eight year olds. 520 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 2: You know that kind of thing, right camp, You're the 521 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 2: oldest sibling. 522 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,920 Speaker 4: Oh no, no, no, no no. My eldest sibling is my 523 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 4: sister Vell. He's seventy three and I'm seventy in August. 524 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 2: Great for seventy bro. 525 00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 4: So I met while I was on you know what. 526 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 4: We were having lunch and shooting bricks, you know what 527 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 4: I mean. But we got a little transits to radio 528 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 4: plane and Here I Go Again by Smokey Robinson and 529 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 4: the Miracles came on and one of my co counselors, 530 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 4: Larry Newkirk, he started singing along with it, and somewhere 531 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,760 Speaker 4: halfway between the songs, I started singing along with him, 532 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 4: and at some point he stopped right and just let 533 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 4: me continue singing. And you know, I closed my eyes 534 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 4: and I just continued to singing the song. And then 535 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 4: when I finally opened my eyes, all these people had 536 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 4: gathered around me. Right. So Lavy said, hey, you've got 537 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 4: a beautiful voice. I said you too, and he was like, well, 538 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 4: I got a Google. Are you interested in joining the group? 539 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 4: I said sure? So I went to his house Espinau Gardens, 540 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 4: Humphy seventh and between seventh and Lenox and met the 541 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 4: rest of his group. The Mellow Souls was the name 542 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 4: of the group. About a week later, Uh, the fifth 543 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 4: member of the Mellow Souls, Uh joined Larry Newkirk's group. 544 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 4: So they were five of us, right, and Uh we 545 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 4: started rehearsing and started learning songs. Delpon this moments that 546 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,800 Speaker 4: main ingredient. This just started, you know, practicing records. Right, 547 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 4: and Uh, Larry's sister, Gail Newkirk, she was friends with 548 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 4: h They was, you know, boyfriend and girlfriend with Patrick 549 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 4: Adams to come. And so we were already to meet Patrick. 550 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 4: We met over Larry's house and so forth and so on. 551 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 4: Patrick called to say he could not come. Right during 552 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 4: the phone call, I was singing can you remember by 553 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 4: the delphonics right in the background. I was in the 554 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 4: other room, but Patrick heard it and he asked, Lovey, 555 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 4: who is that singing? And Larry was like, that's our 556 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 4: lead singer. And so Patrick called me to the phone 557 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 4: asked me about you know, old blah blah, you know, 558 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 4: where do you learn to sing? And what do you 559 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,360 Speaker 4: do to do? And I can't make it today, but 560 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,680 Speaker 4: can you meet me next week? And so that a 561 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 4: week later we arranged a meeting with Patrick Adams and 562 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 4: she was enamored with the group, but he couldn't work 563 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 4: with five people. So the first one to leave the 564 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:36,320 Speaker 4: group was Michael Harris in educational pursuits, pursuing his further education. 565 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 4: So that made it a quartet myself, Vito Vermeers, Stuart 566 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:48,200 Speaker 4: Bascombe and Larry Newkirk, and we began being groomed and 567 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 4: developed by Patrick Adams. Right finally they got us. Is 568 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:59,480 Speaker 4: an amazing coincidence, all right. Patrick became friends with gene 569 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:05,240 Speaker 4: Red who was the manager. Now, when coon A Gang 570 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 4: first came out, they were an all instrumental band. There 571 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 4: was no vocals or anything. They just playing came out 572 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 4: and jammed all these soul instrumentals. That was dope, right, 573 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 4: and you know people bought them and dance to them, 574 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,040 Speaker 4: and they were quite popular, doing quite well. So Patrick 575 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 4: suggested the gene or vice versa, that, uh, why don't 576 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,440 Speaker 4: you let my group permitted themselves and by singing a 577 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 4: couple of songs being backed by a coon a gang. 578 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 4: And they said yes, they said yes. So we were 579 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 4: giving two songs, Love on the Two Way Street and 580 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 4: everybody is a star? Right that coonian and learned to 581 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:50,440 Speaker 4: play behind us to the group. Right now, this is 582 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,720 Speaker 4: before we had any idea me and the Bell brothers 583 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,720 Speaker 4: that we were related. We I just they were Bells 584 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:02,880 Speaker 4: and I knew that I was the son of a Bell, right. 585 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:12,640 Speaker 4: But uh so that is how black ivy. After a minute, Uh, 586 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 4: Larry Newkirk and Vito rameris left to pursue there further 587 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,280 Speaker 4: education and so forth, and so leaving just me and Stuart. 588 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 4: But Larry's brother, Todd Newkirk had was developing a group 589 00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 4: to follow behind us, Shades of Mellow. So in that group, 590 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 4: the best singer was Russell Patterson. Okay, so we went 591 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 4: it was just me and Stuart. We went to Russell 592 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 4: and we said, hey, we do be interested in being 593 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,120 Speaker 4: were part of this nonsense going on over here. 594 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 2: You could just steal somebody from their group. 595 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:55,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, basically, basically we basically stole Russell. That group dissolved, 596 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 4: and that's when Stuart and Patrick got on the phone 597 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 4: with each other and changed the name Mellow Souls as 598 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 4: like hokey as hell, like the mellow who doesn't who 599 00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 4: doesn't do that? So Patrick and Stuart got on the 600 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 4: phone and they came up with Ivory, and then black Ivory, 601 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 4: you know, kind of described us because Russell and I 602 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 4: were this complexion and Stuart was light, you know, his 603 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 4: light skin brother. So that puts you in mind of 604 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 4: the piano and piano keys and all of that. And so. 605 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 2: That's why y'all named y'allselves Black Ivory. 606 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 3: Oh wow, that's the best colorism story I've heard actually, 607 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 3: speaking of which I didn't even plan this moment, but 608 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 3: right at this moment, I'm watching you guys on socialet. Yo, 609 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,799 Speaker 3: your your afro is highly highly impressive. 610 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,880 Speaker 4: Wow, oh my god. First of all, I gotta I gotta, 611 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 4: I gotta say you are the only person with that footage. Oh, 612 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,520 Speaker 4: I know in the world. 613 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 2: I realized this. 614 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,040 Speaker 3: I'm we have can I can I explain to you 615 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 3: why I have this footage? But you guys can take 616 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 3: a wild guess why have his footage? 617 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 4: But we've been I've been looking. I've been looking for 618 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:27,000 Speaker 4: that footage, to see that skill, that one performance. No, 619 00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 4: what goes around comes around. 620 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:34,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, obviously I'm working on a project, and you know 621 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 3: I keep the show on. Even if I weren't working 622 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 3: on it, I'd be watching all eleven hundred episodes of 623 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:40,799 Speaker 3: the Soul Track like it. 624 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 2: This is always stays on, no matter what. It's like 625 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:44,759 Speaker 2: my aquarium. 626 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,759 Speaker 4: You don't know how crucial. We have been looking for 627 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:55,240 Speaker 4: this that footage for over forty years, Right over forty years. 628 00:38:55,360 --> 00:39:00,320 Speaker 4: The Soul Train compilations came out. One episode, Oh this 629 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 4: missing Black Cobby and Hugh Methon. 630 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 2: You messe Quila and from Chicago, Don's homeboy what's his name? 631 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 4: You have the interview where Don don canille I not 632 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 4: the all over my stage and I said, well I 633 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:19,480 Speaker 4: couldn't help it. 634 00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:20,680 Speaker 2: The mud up. 635 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:25,040 Speaker 4: Oh my god, I got you back over there. I 636 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,080 Speaker 4: wanted to walk back over there. Let me see. 637 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 3: Can you basically talk about Patrick adams likes as a 638 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 3: record collector and especially Perception Records, you know, I know, 639 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 3: I always knew it as a jazz label, like I know, 640 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 3: like some of the funkier Disney Gillespie stuff and you know, 641 00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:49,880 Speaker 3: well also fat Back. 642 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 2: But like James Moody, like a lot of jazz artists like. 643 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,360 Speaker 3: Weren't It wasn't Perception primarily a jazz label. 644 00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:01,680 Speaker 4: It wasn't entirely a jazz label U And they were 645 00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 4: breaking into R and B and other marketplaces, which is 646 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 4: why they found a place for Patrick because he was 647 00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:12,880 Speaker 4: the voice of Harlem coming from the R and B 648 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:16,040 Speaker 4: side of things, and that's why he ended up being 649 00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 4: an art director. But yeah, when we went to the label, 650 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:22,080 Speaker 4: it had Johnny Hartman was one of the artists on 651 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:26,799 Speaker 4: the oh Johnny Hartman. It was Dizzy Gi Leslie. He 652 00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:33,799 Speaker 4: was on the label. But they had they had they 653 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:37,279 Speaker 4: hadn't really broken up the Today label. We were the 654 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 4: ones to really break that label open Today. Yeah, Patrick 655 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:47,959 Speaker 4: was He became my absolute mentor and the guy who 656 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,720 Speaker 4: allowed me and and supported me and getting my focus 657 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 4: together to become whatever I would become in the industry. 658 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,520 Speaker 3: So basically you're watching him in the skideo and this 659 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 3: is how you're getting your education. 660 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:06,960 Speaker 4: Or I'm stealing and everything. I could steal every little part, 661 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 4: and I was like, how did you do that? And 662 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,839 Speaker 4: how did you? And he loved He loved working with 663 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:15,799 Speaker 4: me because he loved the idea that I could come 664 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,640 Speaker 4: up with on my own. You and I was my 665 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 4: first composition commercial composition. Wow. I wrote that when I 666 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,560 Speaker 4: was sixteen years old, and Stuart came in and did 667 00:41:26,600 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 4: the lyrics to it. Patrick loved it because I didn't 668 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 4: even know that I was using two four timing and 669 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,200 Speaker 4: six four timing, and so I would just like playing 670 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,239 Speaker 4: something that I liked. But You was like, oh, that's 671 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:39,840 Speaker 4: so great, and we're going to do a record, and 672 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:45,400 Speaker 4: we did this seven minute epic yes of You and I. 673 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 2: You and I? 674 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:51,719 Speaker 4: Right, that the thing for everybody to have. But so 675 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 4: Patrick is entirely responsible for introducing me and bringing me 676 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:03,680 Speaker 4: into the the music industry. I can say that unequivocally. 677 00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:06,799 Speaker 4: There's no one more was Patrick. Was he a white guy, 678 00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:10,000 Speaker 4: black guy? I've seen pictures of him, He's black. 679 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 2: Okay. For for our listeners out there that are hip hop. 680 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,240 Speaker 3: Heads, you and ize the sample to uh Q tips 681 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 3: getting up right? 682 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:22,080 Speaker 4: Yeah? 683 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:22,880 Speaker 2: Getting up? 684 00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:23,880 Speaker 4: Was that? 685 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:24,800 Speaker 2: Was that shocking? 686 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 3: For you to hear it have somewhat of a resurrection 687 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 3: of sorts. 688 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:34,239 Speaker 4: Q Q tip is just a really cool bubble. He's 689 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 4: just straight up above board, all right. And what happened was, 690 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 4: I was working for working at Manny's Music on forty 691 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:45,319 Speaker 4: eighth Street for a little while, you know me, and yes, 692 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 4: you get actually came in and sort me out right 693 00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,440 Speaker 4: and said, I want to I'm thinking about using you 694 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,680 Speaker 4: and I for you know what, for this new song, 695 00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,600 Speaker 4: and uh, I want to do it the right way. 696 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 4: So I knew I found out that you were working here, right, 697 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,839 Speaker 4: you put me onto your publishers so that we can 698 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:14,000 Speaker 4: work out a licensing deal, right, And I always respected 699 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,400 Speaker 4: him for doing that because there's so many underhanded ways 700 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,239 Speaker 4: you can you know, you know, decided to have the 701 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,799 Speaker 4: integrity to come straight at it and to do the 702 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,200 Speaker 4: right thing. And I always respected Kamal for that. But yeah, 703 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,960 Speaker 4: he actually did the right thing by us. 704 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,760 Speaker 3: So by putting two and two together, can I assume 705 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,120 Speaker 3: that you guys' decision to record Don't turn Around and 706 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:47,960 Speaker 3: Philadelphia Sigma Sound had to do with your cousin also 707 00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:48,759 Speaker 3: working out of there. 708 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:54,319 Speaker 4: Boll Patrick and Tom Bell had a rivalry to you know, 709 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,800 Speaker 4: it was New York versus Philly. Tom Bell was the 710 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 4: one of the leading had lists of the Philadelphia Sound. 711 00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,479 Speaker 4: They became friends, so forth and so on. They knew 712 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:09,720 Speaker 4: each other professionally, and Patrick was always trying to create 713 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:14,000 Speaker 4: great records and great songs like don't Turn Around. When 714 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,480 Speaker 4: he became the the vice president of the and r 715 00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,160 Speaker 4: AT at Perception Today, they gave him the budget to 716 00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 4: go to Philly and use I think we use half 717 00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 4: of MSSB. 718 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, Norman Harrison, Vince Montana like all the cats, right. 719 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,719 Speaker 4: And the dudes. The other half of the band, of 720 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 4: the rhythm band was Willie Feasta and the Mighty Magnificence 721 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:44,400 Speaker 4: right all right, which was the all platinum Stang Records. 722 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,719 Speaker 2: Yes, the Sylvie Robinson Crew, Right. 723 00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 4: Yeah. 724 00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 2: So I was gonna ask how did you manage? 725 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 3: Because when I read read the album credits, I'm like, 726 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,880 Speaker 3: wait a minute, is this all just a tri state 727 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 3: thing or like we're because I think for a lot 728 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,160 Speaker 3: of us, when we think of the Philly sound, we 729 00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 3: literally think that everything is going through gamble and huff 730 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:07,960 Speaker 3: and it really wasn't until one day Joe Tarcia told me, like, no, 731 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 3: like you know, there's a period where even the ms 732 00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:16,680 Speaker 3: MFSB Cats broke away from Gamble and Heff as session 733 00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:21,480 Speaker 3: musicians and decided to produce themselves. But since they recorded 734 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,680 Speaker 3: at Sigma, you know, it all sounded the same because 735 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:26,959 Speaker 3: of the of you know. 736 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,440 Speaker 2: The equipment they used and. 737 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,520 Speaker 4: So yeah, just the style of the music there they 738 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:31,840 Speaker 4: all do. 739 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,480 Speaker 3: Right, So people didn't feel a certain way, like I 740 00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,400 Speaker 3: would think that like Gamble and Huff would feel a 741 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,840 Speaker 3: certain way if you know Dexter Wanzel or or or 742 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,279 Speaker 3: or Vince or whoever is like at the Helm or 743 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 3: even your cousin, Like, it all sounds the same because 744 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,040 Speaker 3: it's the same musicians, the same engineering, the same studio, 745 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,960 Speaker 3: the same instruments. So I'm just thinking, like this is 746 00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,520 Speaker 3: all going through Gamble and Huff, but cats feel a 747 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:01,640 Speaker 3: certain way about like. 748 00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,439 Speaker 4: Well, here's my best answer to that. It began as 749 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:11,040 Speaker 4: a partnership Gamble, Huff and Bell, all right, the three 750 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:15,319 Speaker 4: of them were together. That's where you get mighty three 751 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 4: music and so forth. 752 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 3: Okay, I didn't realize that Bell was like a part 753 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:22,759 Speaker 3: of their I just thought he was like way I 754 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:25,840 Speaker 3: used the studio as well. I didn't realize that he 755 00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 3: was see where Mighty three came. 756 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 4: From an integral part of the Gamble when they always 757 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,120 Speaker 4: in their twenties and stuff like that. They were together, right. 758 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,359 Speaker 4: The Iceman comings with an album produced by Gambling, Huff 759 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:44,440 Speaker 4: and Belle. Okay, one of my favorite songs, are You Happy, 760 00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,799 Speaker 4: completely arranged by Bobby Martin and Tom Bell. All right, 761 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 4: So they were always connected. And then as music evolved, 762 00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,399 Speaker 4: they became Kenny and Leon, and then Tom Bell went 763 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,840 Speaker 4: off and did his delphonics thing, right, while Kenny and 764 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:05,920 Speaker 4: Leon did the intruders, and you know that became the 765 00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 4: early Old Jays and so forth and so on so 766 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 4: and next thing, you know, Tom Bell is doing on 767 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:16,000 Speaker 4: the spinners, and you know that whole that whole sphere. 768 00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:20,560 Speaker 4: But yes, indeed, every time they went into the studio, 769 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,680 Speaker 4: whether it was Gambling, Huff or Tom Bell, they used 770 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:29,040 Speaker 4: the same musician Norman Harris, Earl Young on drums all 771 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:33,040 Speaker 4: the time, Vince Montana. They were the same cats, and 772 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:39,279 Speaker 4: they all had this light style of composition, right Whereas 773 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:43,719 Speaker 4: Gambling the songs that they wrote were similar. They came 774 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,839 Speaker 4: from the kind of the same place, right, and then 775 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,879 Speaker 4: using the same musicians to realize these songs create that 776 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,160 Speaker 4: specific sound, the Phil Lee sound right, which can come 777 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:59,040 Speaker 4: from either Gambling Huff or Tom Bell and later on 778 00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 4: Dexter One, Hell, Whitehead so Forth and Offshoots, Uh, Norman Habits, Baker, 779 00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,760 Speaker 4: Habits Young so Forth and so on. In the Vince 780 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 4: Montana camp, they were all United and Sigma Sound Studios, 781 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,840 Speaker 4: and they would call each other up for the babous sessions. 782 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 4: So that's why all the records started sounding like each other. 783 00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,240 Speaker 2: Thank you for finally saying that I just never. 784 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,359 Speaker 4: Knew right and talk to all of them. Sorry, I'm 785 00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:31,719 Speaker 4: sorry now. 786 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 5: I was gonna ask before we got off the first album. 787 00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:41,920 Speaker 5: I keep asking questions, Yeah, uh, how how did it 788 00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:44,400 Speaker 5: feel when you heard that, you know, being used in 789 00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,799 Speaker 5: that way for Criminology? 790 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:52,239 Speaker 4: Same story as come on, Yeah, I don't think so. 791 00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,640 Speaker 1: Or no or no I heard. 792 00:48:57,080 --> 00:48:58,680 Speaker 4: I'm like, all right, I don't think it's gonna be 793 00:48:58,719 --> 00:48:58,960 Speaker 4: the same. 794 00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,480 Speaker 3: I can't wait to get to over like a fat rat. 795 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,080 Speaker 2: This is all like after the fact. 796 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:12,200 Speaker 4: I didn't know about Criminology until way after it came out. 797 00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:18,640 Speaker 4: Was successful, right, And my first response was the old 798 00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:25,959 Speaker 4: R and B head Right, this rap is taken over right. 799 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:29,840 Speaker 4: I don't know what are they saying to the kids, 800 00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:37,280 Speaker 4: and some of them I went with the t on them. 801 00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,640 Speaker 4: But then it was doing so well, and then it 802 00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:46,160 Speaker 4: went gold and then it went platinum. I might be 803 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:53,000 Speaker 4: okay with this. I might just be okay this, And 804 00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,799 Speaker 4: I actually am looking at the platinum black right there 805 00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,280 Speaker 4: only built only for Cuban links. 806 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:01,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was gonna say for a lot of us. 807 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:06,400 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, my dad had your records, but it 808 00:50:06,560 --> 00:50:08,520 Speaker 3: is those records that made us. 809 00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,920 Speaker 2: Really truly like revisit those. 810 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,520 Speaker 3: Records and look down the credits and then just really 811 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:22,840 Speaker 3: get lost in your history. So I know in the 812 00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,200 Speaker 3: beginning it's a little jarring because you're like, my work's 813 00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:32,839 Speaker 3: being torn apart or whatever, but you know that if 814 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,520 Speaker 3: there ever was an album for you to be associated with, 815 00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 3: that was the record. 816 00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:42,480 Speaker 4: That started a trend, and a trend that begun earlier 817 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:52,239 Speaker 4: by I think it was remember Strictly Business, that movie 818 00:50:52,239 --> 00:50:55,520 Speaker 4: Barry Grandpa, but he took fat lap, he used over 819 00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:56,439 Speaker 4: like a fat vat. 820 00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was. 821 00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:01,680 Speaker 4: I was not cool. Within July saw the first chat 822 00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:12,840 Speaker 4: and then I realized, yeah. 823 00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,000 Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, what's up. This is Fonte from Team Supreme. 824 00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,960 Speaker 2: This interview was so good so nice. 825 00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:17,080 Speaker 4: We had to do it twice. 826 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,000 Speaker 5: We put it up, put it, broke it up into 827 00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,840 Speaker 5: two parts. Honestly, this was one of my favorite interviews 828 00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:23,920 Speaker 5: this season. I wanted to talk to Leroy for a 829 00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,640 Speaker 5: long time and he did not disappoint. So please check 830 00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,160 Speaker 5: back in as Leroy tells us more about his life 831 00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 5: and career. 832 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:31,719 Speaker 4: Peace Shall. 833 00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:50,480 Speaker 1: What's Lop Supreme is a production of iHeart Radio. For 834 00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,680 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 835 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,960 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.