1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called 6 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,880 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: Paul Mission Control decades. Most importantly, you are you, You 8 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want 9 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: you to know. Which off air is still working on 10 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: a title for this one. I don't know what we'll 11 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: end up with, but I was. I was pitching it 12 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: to the gang as the episode where we start a 13 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 1: fight with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. What are we 14 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: talking about there? There's so many there's so many beef 15 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: points between the US and Saudi Arabia, or the world 16 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: and the Ingdom. Here's Here's this. Today's episode may be 17 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: a sensitive subject to many in the audience. It touches 18 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: on several ongoing legal cases which will many of which 19 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: will likely not be resolved for one reason or another. 20 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: You might not be aware of this one, but it 21 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: is an international conspiracy has it's at least a decade old, 22 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 1: probably older. It continues as we record today, and there's 23 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: not a solution. Really, it is set to continue in 24 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 1: the future. The best way for us to get into 25 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: this story is to explore it through a specific recent 26 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: example in Oregon that just just hit a crisis point 27 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: in nineteen, but it begins in twenty sixteen. So here 28 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: are the facts. Yes, on August nineteen, Abdul Rahman Samir 29 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: Nora was charged with first degree manslaughter for fatally hitting 30 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: a fifteen year old girl named Fallon Smart with his 31 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: car in Portland. Um. The charge was technically elevated manslaughter. 32 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: We've talked about the weirdness but behind these types of 33 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: kind of delineations of styles of murder, but yeah, elevated manslaughter. 34 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: Alleges that NeuRA caused smart death unlawfully and recklessly under 35 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: circumstances manifesting extreme indifference to the value of human life. 36 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: Who okay Um Smart was crossing legally in front of 37 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:34,959 Speaker 1: traffic when NeuRA illegally swerved into the left turn lane 38 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: and hit her at fifty five to sixty miles per hour. 39 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 1: NeuRA was driving on a suspended license, did not stop 40 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 1: after running over this this person and police said that 41 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: he later returned to the scene, which I guess the 42 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: indication there is just kind of wanton disregard for you know, 43 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 1: um consequences perhaps, But we'll see, well, I mean he's 44 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: he's going back to see what happened, right, Oh yeah, 45 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: But also like there's got it. You know, that's a luxury. 46 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: I would say, like if I was gonna flee, I 47 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: would fully flee. I wouldn't be like, does go back 48 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: and see what happened? So that's a little bit interesting. Yeah, 49 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: he was likely this is my speculation, he was likely 50 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: instructed by someone to return and assured that things would 51 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: ultimately be okay. He had been in the US for 52 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 1: some time. He first visited the country in fourteen from 53 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: his native Saudi Arabia, was on his student visa. As 54 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 1: you know, many people traveled to the US on a 55 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: student visa. He was studying at Portland's Community College. The 56 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabian government, through its consulate, retained private attorneys, one 57 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: of whom will occur later in this story, Ginger Mooney. Uh, 58 00:03:55,800 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: and they cut his bail was I inc initially said 59 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: it a million dollars, So they cut a hundred thousand 60 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 1: dollar check for his bail. He was put on pre 61 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: trial supervision kind of like house arrest, ankle monitor, the bracelet, 62 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: the whole nine uh, and his passport was taken. That's 63 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: important because typically in the world of legal international travel, 64 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: there is only one living person right now who can 65 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: travel without a passport. That is the Queen of England. 66 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 1: Weird story, it's true. We have I think we have 67 00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 1: a video about it, uh somewhere brain stuff and stuff 68 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. So here's where our 69 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: law and order music starts kicking in. Two weeks before 70 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: his trial, which was scheduled for June, Nora disappears. A 71 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: black suv is seen pulling into the home where he's 72 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: staying at. He had a he was staying at a 73 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: with a host family along with a cousin he was 74 00:04:55,480 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 1: very close to. We know that he was driven to 75 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: a gravel lot a out two miles away, and we 76 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: know this because he still has his tracking monitor on 77 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 1: his ankle. Uh. So the FEDS followed that signal uh 78 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: to the gravel lot and found that someone had sliced 79 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: the monitor off and just discarded it. They're also cell phone, 80 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:22,039 Speaker 1: laptop stuff involved here from their federal authorities in the 81 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 1: US believed Nora, who was, by the way, just twenty 82 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: one at this point. He's a young kid. He was 83 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:31,239 Speaker 1: given a fake or illicit passport, and he was flown 84 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: somehow out of the US, likely on a private plane. 85 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: And you may be wondering, Wow, this guy must be 86 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: really important this uh for for that to go down, 87 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 1: or he must be extremely rich to be able to 88 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: get someone to do that. Either someone did that for 89 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: him or he did it on his own accord. It's 90 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: very strange, just just the fact that a precaution would 91 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: be taken, like a pretty extreme precaution, taking a passport, 92 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: making sure, okay, this person is not going to leave, 93 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: and then to be able to have a an organized 94 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: group of people to assist in getting this person out 95 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: of the country. There's something deeper going on. It feels 96 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: it feels like a movie of like like some kind 97 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 1: of spy movie or a caper. Right, absolutely absolutely, because look, 98 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: you know I I complained about this off air earlier. Uh. 99 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 1: I can't get away with overdue library fees, you know 100 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: what I mean, Like I have consequences for that. How 101 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: did this guy give the feds the slip and get 102 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 1: out of the country. What's happening. The thing is federal prosecutors, 103 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: without disclosing all of the specifics of their information other 104 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 1: than what we've just mentioned, federal prosecutors are certain that 105 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: the Saudi Arabian government itself conspired to remove Nora before 106 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: he could face any actual jail time for killing this child. 107 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: And you know, for the record, uh, it doesn't seem 108 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: like it was premeditated murder. It feels like it was 109 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: horrific accidental tragedy. But that doesn't Yeah, and you know, 110 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: I joked about the lines that we make in the 111 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: law between different types of killing, and obviously some of 112 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: them exist for a reason, premeditated versus an accident, a tragedy, 113 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: something that you participated in but perhaps did not actually 114 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:29,239 Speaker 1: intend to do. I understand that. But this is also 115 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: you know, there's a level of wantonness and a level 116 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 1: of disregard for human life on display here that is 117 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: very troubling the at the very least. Yeah, the authorities noted, 118 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: like the local police in Portland noted that at the time, 119 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: Nora seemed in like markedly indifferent to the fact that 120 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: there was someone dead because of his driving. But we 121 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: have to be careful with that kind of emotional attribution 122 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: because he could have just been in shock, you know 123 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: what I mean. M Here's the thing. You've probably heard 124 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,800 Speaker 1: of extradition treaties. You don't have to be a legal 125 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: expert to know what they are. Extradition treaties are agreements 126 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: that countries make, or that agreements that either individual countries 127 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: make bilaterally, or their agreements that coalitions like the EU 128 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: will make for EU member states. Not every country has 129 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:34,080 Speaker 1: an extradition treaty with every other country, which is how 130 00:08:34,160 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: some people are able to fake their deaths and get 131 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: away and live in a non extradition country, and when 132 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: the authorities find out that they've committed pseudo side which 133 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: is the correct word, uh, it doesn't matter if those 134 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,199 Speaker 1: people are faking their death because you can't get them 135 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: back to your country to face their crimes. The U 136 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: S and Saudi Arabia do not have an extradition treaty, 137 00:08:58,920 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: so it is highly unlikely that Nora would be arrested 138 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 1: inside the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia for this crime in 139 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 1: the US, and it is virtually impossible. It would be 140 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 1: unprecedented for the Kingdom to actually send one of one 141 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,839 Speaker 1: of their own citizens to the US to serve time 142 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 1: in the US prison system. Currently, the FEDS say they 143 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: don't know specifically where Nora is in the Kingdom of 144 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia. So in short, all the details aside, the 145 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: main takeaway is this, Uh, he killed a child, a 146 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: fifteen year old, and he got away with it. And 147 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 1: it gets worse, boy does it ever? And as we 148 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: said this, this took place in Portland, Oregon, and there 149 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: there's a journalist there working for The Oregonian also known 150 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: as Oregon Live. His name is Shane Dixon Kavanaugh, and 151 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,719 Speaker 1: he's been looking into this pretty sensively. There are many 152 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: many articles you can read on the websites there um 153 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: to learn about this, and he has found that it 154 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,520 Speaker 1: appears that this isn't just a one off, This isn't 155 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 1: an exception to the rule. This seems to be a 156 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: much larger issue, a pattern of people getting away with 157 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: terrible things in the United States and being sent back 158 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 1: to Saudi Arabia somehow right, I'd like to point out 159 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: this as an iteration of a pattern that's our that 160 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: this is our conspiracy for today. How many people, as 161 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: the government of Saudi Arabia removed from justice. And perhaps 162 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: more importantly and more disturbingly, why aren't the FEDS doing 163 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 1: anything about it? This is a question will answer after 164 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:06,319 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. 165 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,959 Speaker 1: So Kavanaugh, if you're listening, thank you for doing this 166 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:16,120 Speaker 1: amazing work. I was profoundly impressed. Um Kavanaugh has made 167 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: a series that is ongoing called Fleeing Justice, which is 168 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: available now at Oregon Live dot com. In his investigation, 169 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: he bread crumbed together dozens of cases of Saudi Arabian nationals, 170 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:37,880 Speaker 1: typically young college students, illegally fleeing the US and Canada 171 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: after being charged with serious crimes. And we're not talking 172 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:46,880 Speaker 1: about stuff like late fees at Blockbuster or libraries or something. 173 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: Late fees at Blockbuster, because if so I am a criminal, 174 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: I still think about that, Like, how different would the 175 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: world be? Maybe I should have paid those late fees? Well, 176 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,120 Speaker 1: what happens when I when the company like dissolved, mean 177 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: there is technically one remaining active Blockbuster. Um, but ben 178 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 1: to your earlier point, the public library, they are relentless. 179 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: They will come after you. They will like you know, 180 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: docks you, and it's it's very scary to be on 181 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: the wrong side of the public library system. Yeah, the 182 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: word on the street is that librarians trained under the 183 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: most elite hounding force in the US, which is, of 184 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: course people who want to talk to you about your 185 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: cars extended warranty. Uh. They're pretty much the Seal Team 186 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: six of bugging you. But but but look, you know, 187 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: we're we're trying to inject levity into this because, uh, 188 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: these individuals were charged with, not convicted, but charged with 189 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: things like manslaughter, rape, uh, more kinds of sexual assault, 190 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 1: illegal possession of firearms, possession of graphic depictions of child abuse, 191 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: uh and charges of like encouraging soliciting, disseminating that kind 192 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:07,079 Speaker 1: of material. Kavanaugh found these and then he also found 193 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: uh he was the one who originally reported this story 194 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: that we just shared with you at the top of 195 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 1: the show. He also found a pattern of state level 196 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: interference from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia with each of 197 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: these cases. And then he found that this has been 198 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 1: an open secret among federal authorities for at least a decade. 199 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: I would argue probably more like everybody, it's just not 200 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: getting it just wasn't getting reported near as often until 201 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: Kavanaugh started digging it. Yes, and for for for the record, 202 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: I've always been a big fan of The Oregonian and 203 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: the reporting they've done. A show that I worked on 204 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: that I've mentioned now. We actually had Phil Stanford, who 205 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: once wrote for The Oregonian on the show, and they've 206 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: definitely done good work and investigative journalism over the years. 207 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: Um This series from Kavanaugh began when he learned about 208 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: this particular case involving NeuRA Kabinaugh, through tons of deep 209 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: dive research, was able to conclude uh. This is a 210 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: quote from the piece. Despite unknowns in the ongoing investigation, 211 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: officials with the U S Department of Homeland Security and 212 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: US Marshal Service are all but certain who helped orchestrate 213 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: the remarkable escape the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and therein 214 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: lies a pattern. This is this is no longer in 215 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: the quote that the Saudi government paid bail hired attorneys 216 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 1: to defend nearly all of these young men, most of 217 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: whom were international college students at the time, and in 218 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 1: each case they were able to extract them before they 219 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: were forced to face prosecution or uh complete jail sentences. 220 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: Some were traced back to Saudi Arabia even after surrendering 221 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: their passports to US authorities. And to your point, Ben, 222 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: that's crazy. That's a level of like like cheat code, 223 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: you know, boss move that most are not capable of 224 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 1: and definitely requires some kind of level of collusion on 225 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: the part of our government. I'm just putting that out there. 226 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: And then they realized, you know, there are several cases 227 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: in Oregon. You know, you if you imagine Kavanaugh working 228 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: there at a paper that's based in the city, He's 229 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: looking at cases that are happening around him, right, and 230 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: then he and his team discover that, oh no, it's 231 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: not just Oregan. There's other cases like this in Montana, 232 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: in Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Utah, Washington, Wisconsin, and they're realizing, oh 233 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: my god, this is happening across the US and beyond. 234 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: They also find two cases in Nova Scotia, uh Saudi 235 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: students and two separate incidents were had skipped bail and 236 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 1: they had disappeared after being accused of sexual assault. I 237 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 1: think it's fair to say disappeared because they end up 238 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: back at the case. That's that's what happens. They may 239 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: go somewhere else, to some other country, after that, but 240 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: the they go back to their home country in Saudi Arabia. 241 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: To your point, Matt, In Oregon, Kavanaugh's team found seven 242 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: cases they could verify involving Saudi nationals who vanished before 243 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: they face trial or completed the jail senates. These were 244 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: two people accused of rape, pair of suspected hit and 245 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: run drivers, one of whom was NeuRA, One man accused 246 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: of having depictions of child abuse on his computer, sexual 247 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: assault charges. One man accused of carrying a loaded illegal 248 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: firearm and that's like that that one is the lightest 249 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: crime that guy. Uh. All of these people were young 250 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: men studying at colleges or universities in Oregon with assistance 251 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 1: from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia at the time of 252 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: their arrest. I want to give a comparison here and 253 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 1: will make sure that we're not just making on Saudi 254 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: Arabia before this episode is over. So spoiler alert, but 255 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 1: I want to make a comparison. Uh, Folks, conspiracy realists, 256 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: imagine that you went on a trip with Matt Noel 257 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: mission control of myself and we were I don't know, 258 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 1: we're backpacking around uh Croatia or we're we're doing for 259 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 1: some reason, doing a tour in China, wishes or horses, 260 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: they let us in. Uh, and then uh, I don't 261 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:37,920 Speaker 1: want to accuse us of heinous crimes. But let's say 262 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: one of us commits heinous crime. You know what, Let's 263 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 1: say an accidental death. Okay, yeah, let's say we're getting 264 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: a bar fight. We're getting a bar fight and don't 265 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: mean to kill somebody, but one of us kills somebody, 266 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: and the government government of Croatia or the government of 267 00:17:54,840 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: China rightly says you're under arrest. But then, uh, if 268 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 1: if we were like these nationals in today's episode, what 269 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: would happen is that the government of the US, so 270 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: let's just say the government of podcasting, the government of 271 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: Podcasting then would find a smart spycraft way to contact 272 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: us right and communicate with us through a TuS or 273 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: clandestine means, and then they would essentially say, Matt, if 274 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: you're if you're the person who accidentally through the fatal punch, 275 00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,719 Speaker 1: then they would essentially say, Okay, we're gonna post your 276 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: bail right your own house vis at twelve forty three 277 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: pm on you know this Tuesday, Just walk outside, stop 278 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,920 Speaker 1: at the threshold of your door so the angle monitor 279 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: doesn't ping. And then when the car pulls up, hop in, 280 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: don't ask any questions, and then you get you get 281 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: they'll hand you a U a real looking US passport 282 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: that says like UM, real guy, last name or something. 283 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: You know, it's got a picture on it, and then boom, 284 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: You're in the US. You'll you'll never get to go 285 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: to Zagreb or Croatia or Beijing or China again. But 286 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: you will also never serve day in jail. That doesn't 287 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: that doesn't happen to the average person in the planet, 288 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: and it shouldn't write like is that not crazy? That's 289 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: insane to me? It is crazy, and it's almost it's 290 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 1: very similar to what we've discussed before when a spy 291 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:36,120 Speaker 1: who is operating under diplomatic community or something is operating 292 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 1: in a different country, Right, doesn't it feel like that? Yes, 293 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I know we're gonna get there, but it's 294 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 1: just it's galling to me. It's like this, This doesn't 295 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: happen in a vacuum, you know, I mean, there's somebody 296 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 1: helping the process along the way. Is its sanctioned? Is 297 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: it completely under the table, just to keep the relationship, 298 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: you know, nice and tidy with this country that we 299 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: depend on. These are these are good questions? No, uh 300 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,760 Speaker 1: we we we need to delve further though the answer 301 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 1: is disgusting. Yeah, there you go. That's that's that's the 302 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: spoiler I'll give now. We we didn't want to go 303 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 1: down too far down the rabbit hole. Again. You can 304 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: read um reports by Pro Publica, you can reports reports 305 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: by The Oregonian and a couple of other high quality 306 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: outlets about this. But but just to give you this scope, 307 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: like we want to name some of these people, So 308 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: picture Kavanaugh again picking up the breadcrumbs, putting the pieces 309 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: together here. Uh. In addition to NeuRA, he found uh, 310 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,960 Speaker 1: he found multiple people, as we said, like around twenty 311 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,680 Speaker 1: There's Mohammed Zarabi al Zoabi. He's one of the Nova 312 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: Scotia folks inen. He disappeared. He was facing numerous charges 313 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: of sexual assault and forcible confinement of a woman over 314 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: a series of incidences occurring between seventeen. There's Sammy Solomon 315 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: al Masani. Uh. He was in Montana. This is in 316 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,680 Speaker 1: two thousand seventeen. He was accused of raping his roommate 317 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 1: after the pair returned home. From a downtown music festival 318 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: in that was in July seventeen. Next we have Mukrin 319 00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: Maja al Balawi um and this took place in Washington 320 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: and two sixteen. He was accused of beating and stabbing 321 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: a man during an altercation in February of And then 322 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: there's Salid Abdul who in Washington in sixteen disappeared. Uh 323 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:53,520 Speaker 1: he had forcibly confined someone a lawful imprisonment, it was called, 324 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: and have for ster to perform sex acts upon him. 325 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I'm assuming ben. So many of these 326 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,239 Speaker 1: are from the Pacific Northwest because of the reporting from 327 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: the Oregonian. Yeah. Yeah, I've listed out the seven cases, 328 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: but eventually, just for the sake of time, I I stopped. 329 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: And I want to again recommend that people check out 330 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: Kavanaugh's work on this because it's it's super easy to 331 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: rabbit hole. You'll see, like we've got links arranged where 332 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 1: you can see this story in the particulars of each 333 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: of these cases. You'll also see other ones that haven't 334 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: been reported or maybe collected in this series for one 335 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: reason or another. But there are cases that occur in 336 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: other places in Milwaukee and so on. Uh. In Oregon. 337 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: Salad Ali algos Uh. He disappeared in sixteen. He's the 338 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: illegal firearm guy. He currently as a couple of outstanding 339 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: warrants and a couple of counties. I am going to 340 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:07,440 Speaker 1: be honest to me, having a non registered firearm feels lighter, 341 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And next we've got Suleiman 342 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: Ali Alas. This is again in Oregon. This guy was 343 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: charged with third degree assault. He's also charged with driving 344 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: under the influence of something that was intoxicating him. There 345 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: are other charges laid against him and that was in 346 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:30,480 Speaker 1: They have been related, Saud and Suleiman same exact last 347 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: name or Ali Al you know. I do not know 348 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: if they are officially related, but we're gonna get into 349 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: um some troubling relations a little bit later in the episode. 350 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 1: Next we have Faisal alte Leb and this was in 351 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: Montana and the charge here was sexual assault. And then uh, 352 00:23:53,080 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: we have Abdulaziz Hamad Alis in Oregon, accused of sexually 353 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: assaulting a Class bate after applying her with marijuana and booze. 354 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: And then we have Walid Ali all Hearty and this 355 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: was also in Oregon. In and this was possession of 356 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: child pornography. I mean, these charges run the gamut of 357 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 1: oh my god, so so wide ranging, and as we said, 358 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: the list goes on. There is value in naming specific 359 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: people here so that we're not just saying this number 360 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: of folks, right, are part of this pattern iterations thereof 361 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: and there You're right, they run the gamut, but there 362 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: is one thing they have in common, which is that 363 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: these people did not and will not pay for their crimes. 364 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: They exist in a different level of justice then you know, 365 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: most of us listening along today unless you were one 366 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,959 Speaker 1: of the people named and you happen to be listening 367 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: to this episode, in which case, feel free to reach 368 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: out conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Yeah, and we're 369 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:08,719 Speaker 1: talking about this almost in terms of like, you know, 370 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: extraction or some kind of you know, heist, but it's 371 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: it's in none of these cases was there an actual 372 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: breaking out. You know, these were all done more or 373 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: less using um, the traditional means of paying bail and 374 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: using lawyers and all of that. So on paper, it 375 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: could easily be justified that this was done through the 376 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: proper channels. But as we'll see, uh, there's nothing proper 377 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: about any of this. I hear what you're saying, Well, 378 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: but when we're talking about proper channels, a proper channel 379 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: is not escaping the country illegally. That's that's why, that's 380 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: why it's um No, I'm a million percent. I'm just saying, 381 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:56,360 Speaker 1: like you know, paper trail wise. You know, they they 382 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: paid the bail, they got them out, and then they fled. 383 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,959 Speaker 1: You know, well they yeah, they skipped bail. I think, right, 384 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: that's how you would. Yeah, yeah, they skipped bail. And uh, 385 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: it's gotta be gotta be irritating to the skip tracers 386 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: because there you can trace some of these some of 387 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: these individuals pretty pretty easily. You just cannot do anything 388 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: about it. So yeah, it's they go through the proper 389 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 1: channels up to a point, and we'll see the we'll 390 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: see the response of the the Saudi government to some 391 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: of these crazy accusations a little later in the show. 392 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: It is important again to be objective, to be fair, 393 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,679 Speaker 1: We have to note that these individuals were accused, they 394 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: were suspected, they were arrested or dieted, but there hasn't been, 395 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: to your Pointnal, an actual jail break, you know, like 396 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: that prison escape show that was so popular a few 397 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: years ago. There it wasn't like a tank rolled through 398 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,199 Speaker 1: or someone dressed is I'm just thinking, how cool this 399 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: is a movie. So a dressed as a prison guard 400 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: like takes off their mission impossible mask face and it's 401 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: Tom Cruise or something. It's like, we're getting you out 402 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,800 Speaker 1: of the States. Nothing like that. Nothing like that, but 403 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: close enough, a real world version of it. Yeah, and 404 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: and there's there's there's a lot of really great reporting 405 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: on this to your point, Ben, And according to Sebastian 406 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: Retela and Tim Golden, who right for ProPublica, they had 407 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: this to say about the whole situation. Uh quote, Successive 408 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: American administrations have avoided confronting the government in Riad out 409 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 1: of concern that doing so might jeopardize US interests, particularly 410 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: Saudi cooperation and the fight against Islamist terrorism. So they knew, 411 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:53,159 Speaker 1: they knew about this. Again, they just did very little 412 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 1: to prevent it. Uh Mission control. Paul mission Control brought 413 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:02,639 Speaker 1: up a h A great point. He has asked me 414 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: off air, he said, Okay, well, why why is this happening? 415 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: And that's in a nutshell? And when we told him, 416 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: his next response was counter terrorism. Weren't the majority of 417 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: the terrorists involved in the events of September eleven Saudi nationals, 418 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:27,840 Speaker 1: and that's correct, so to be fair. A spokesperson for 419 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: the Saudi Embassy in Washington named Fahad Nazer said that quote, 420 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 1: only a small fraction of Saudi students in the US 421 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 1: have gotten into any legal trouble, and that Saudi officials 422 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: have strictly adhered to all US laws in helping them. 423 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: He goes on to say the notion that the Saudi 424 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: government actively helps citizens of a justice after they've been 425 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 1: implicated in legal wrongdoing in the US is simply not true. 426 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: I put a little sass on that quote because it 427 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: feels categorical and explicit. But it seems that that quote 428 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: itself is at the very least misleading. Maybe the people 429 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: who are assisting in these escapes are kind of like hackers, 430 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: the hacker armies in China, and maybe they're just not 431 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,959 Speaker 1: officially condoned by the government and they just feel patriotic 432 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: worries lying. Well, that's the thing that like, I mean, 433 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: when you get into all this like pr speak and again, 434 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: this idea of strictly adhering to all US laws, there's 435 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: a dot dot dot there where it's up to a point, 436 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: like like you said, you can certainly say we strictly 437 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,720 Speaker 1: adhered to all US laws and then we didn't until 438 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: the point where we stopped doing that thing. Well, again, 439 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: you'd have to prove that it's Saudi officials who are 440 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: doing any of taking any of these actions to get 441 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:01,800 Speaker 1: citizens out. Ah. Yeah, I mean that's plausible, deniable, right, Yeah, 442 00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: I mean, you're It's a tough thing unless you've got 443 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: solid evidence to to say, hey, Saudi Arabia, you have 444 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: government officials taking people out of the country and we 445 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: know it. Um, you'd have to have serious evidence in 446 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,960 Speaker 1: order to make that accusation. And well, maybe we don't 447 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: have that. We do have a disturbing trend, uh, an 448 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 1: upward trend that we can measure, and it would seem 449 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:35,360 Speaker 1: that the problem of US students fleeing prosecution has increased UM, 450 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: largely in proportion to the Saudi student population in the 451 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:44,280 Speaker 1: United States increasing um that population having been only five 452 00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: thousand in two thousand five, uh and then about a 453 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: decade later, exploding to more than eighty thousand. And that's 454 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 1: according to the Department of Homeland Security. The Saudi government 455 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: has sponsored most of these students under a scholarship program 456 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: created by the late King Abdullah, a three billion, mind 457 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 1: you dollar scholarship program. Yeah, so maybe it's uh, maybe 458 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: it's just a numbers game question. There. There's so many 459 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: more apples that maybe our incident of bad apples just increases. Right, 460 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: the the FBI, State Department, Ice, the rest of the 461 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: Alphabet Boys, all the Alphabet Soup members have confirmed to 462 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 1: your point, Matt, that Saudi intelligence officials do monitor Saudi 463 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: nationals in the United States. And they confirmed this as 464 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: part of their kind of routine security checks, you know 465 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: what I mean. It's not a big operation snow White 466 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: break into an embassy or something. This is standard operating procedure. 467 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,600 Speaker 1: So what they saw the intelligence officials doing, was the 468 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: Saudi intelligence officials doing, was looking for signs of possible radicalization, right, 469 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: looking for signs of uh denigration against the Kingdom, stuff 470 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: like that, just keeping an eye on these people, because again, 471 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: that is part and parcel of what they what they do, right, 472 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: I mean, even like if you're a U. S citizen 473 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: and you travel to a foreign country, you're going to 474 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: be living there for a while, it's also highly recommended 475 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,400 Speaker 1: that you check in with the embassy or the consulate 476 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: in case something happens. Right again, the U. S. Consulate 477 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: is not for the average US citizen. The U. S. 478 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: Consulate is not going to go to these lengths, you 479 00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,200 Speaker 1: know what I mean. They're not gonna They're not gonna 480 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: spirit your way or what do we say in the 481 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:44,080 Speaker 1: troubled team industry. They're not gonna google the situation. Yeah, 482 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: you put yourself in Uh. But they found something else 483 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: when they were looking at this. The officials found that 484 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: the Saudi intelligence agents were also not just keeping tabs 485 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 1: on the college kids, but intervening where they felt ness 486 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: sterry up to and including assisting them in escaping criminal 487 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: consequences that will put the average US citizen pretty much 488 00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 1: under the jail. Like celebrities, the very wealthy, and politicians 489 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: obviously have a function under a different justice system, But 490 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: the average US citizen would be going to prison for 491 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff. So can you guess why 492 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam has not been doing a damn thing about 493 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: this for more than ten years? We'll tell you. After 494 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor, we're back and we hope 495 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: that you have returned as well. We left you with 496 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: a question, uh, and we shouldn't have left it without 497 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,920 Speaker 1: a dope. Beat the step too. Here it is. Can 498 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: you guess why Uncle Sam has not been doing anything 499 00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,960 Speaker 1: about it? Wait for folks, if you're listening a lot 500 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 1: along at home and you already know the answer, please 501 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: say it with us. That good. It's just the greatest 502 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 1: you know, yea, the most good? Yeah? And what what 503 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: do we mean the greater good? Have set the apple cards? 504 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: What we mean we've got these? Well, I mean, I 505 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:28,120 Speaker 1: don't know. It just means that we don't wanna. It's like, 506 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: if you compare it's like a cost benefit analysis. We 507 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: always talk about, like if we do we really want 508 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: to die on this hill of going to war with 509 00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 1: the Saudi government over these like misbehaving students, which in 510 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: the grand scheme of things, you know, Uncle Sam could 511 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: easily argue not that big a deal when you compare 512 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: it to like the overall picture of things. And we've 513 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,080 Speaker 1: actually we've got a quote from someone who seems to 514 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: know what they're talking about. A former FBI agent named 515 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dannick. He was the FIA's assistant legal attache in 516 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: Riad from two thousand ten to two thousand twelve. And 517 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: this is why he thinks these students are somehow getting 518 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,600 Speaker 1: back to Saudi Arabia while the FBI and other intelligence 519 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: agencies are aware. He says, it's not that the issue 520 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: of Saudi fugitives from the US wasn't important. It's that 521 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: the security relationship was so much more important on counter terrorism, 522 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: on protecting the U S and its partners on opposing Iran. 523 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:37,320 Speaker 1: The Saudis were invaluable allies. So yeah, this this argument 524 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: is a greater good argument. It's a it's a cost 525 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: benefit analysis argument. Not everybody is making the same argument. 526 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: For the people who would speak, whether on record or 527 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 1: uh anonymously, there are people were saying, look, if this 528 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 1: came across my desk at the time, I would have 529 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,760 Speaker 1: no problem approaching whomever my contact was in the Kingdom 530 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: regarding this issue, even if it's a painful one to 531 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: bring up. But then you'll have people from other US 532 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: agencies who are saying, look, I have to I have 533 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: to build relationships with with my partners on these projects 534 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: on counter terrorists. I have to ask sensitive questions, to 535 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: do a lot of digging, and I have to have 536 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,120 Speaker 1: report and I have to have trust. And if I'm 537 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: there to talk with these folks about something concerning geopolitics 538 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,759 Speaker 1: or national security and I bring up, hey, where these 539 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: college kids? Uh, then I will be shut down. And 540 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,920 Speaker 1: not only will I have an unsuccessful conversation or interaction 541 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,880 Speaker 1: that day, but I will never have I will never 542 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:56,240 Speaker 1: recover from from pressing this point and this. The problem 543 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,319 Speaker 1: with this is that both both sides are valid. But 544 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: if we wanted to be hyperbolic then uh, and and 545 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: engage in some like bleeding headlines, then we would say 546 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 1: something like the US has made a conscious decision to 547 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:18,839 Speaker 1: sacrifice some of its civilians or I mean, that's that's 548 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: a terrible thing to say, and it is misleading, and 549 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:24,239 Speaker 1: it's an appeal to emotion and so on. But this 550 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,720 Speaker 1: kind of stuff, also, these kind of decisions don't occur 551 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: in a vacuum. There are other things that happened, like 552 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 1: the US protecting opium fields in Afghanis Son, you know 553 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:38,439 Speaker 1: what I mean. Like there, you could say that they're 554 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:44,240 Speaker 1: enabling opioid addiction, in heroin addiction in the US. Also 555 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,000 Speaker 1: shout out to the cost of doing business argument. I 556 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 1: think you guys saw that the yeah, makers of oxycotton 557 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: just got slapped with attacks and they're shutting down. My 558 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: understanding is produce going away. Yeah, But I mean the 559 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,280 Speaker 1: the the argument you can make there is like this family, 560 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: the Sacklers, you know, and these executives, they're basically just retiring. 561 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: It's not like they're actually having to answer for their crimes, 562 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 1: and it's not like they're actually going to see any 563 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,200 Speaker 1: Are they going to be in the poorhouse now because 564 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 1: of these these things that have happened. Absolutely not. And 565 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 1: and Ben, the thing that this makes me think of, 566 00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: and I like, we constantly a running up into things 567 00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: that make me think this is at the end of 568 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: the day, we as a government, and many governments, so 569 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,480 Speaker 1: many just don't have any moral high grounds, don't have 570 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,479 Speaker 1: any like like moral soapbox to stand on ever, because 571 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,440 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, there's so many of 572 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,280 Speaker 1: these little calculations that involve knowingly allowing terrible things to happen, 573 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,760 Speaker 1: terrible people to continue doing terrible things under our watch. 574 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 1: And yet we try, our politicians try to take some 575 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:56,719 Speaker 1: kind of moral stance and say we are the you know, 576 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: law and order candidate or or party or whatever, and 577 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 1: it's all bull I agree. I mean, look, honestly, a 578 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: great deal of the concept of morality is pr spin 579 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: that is sold to a population, which I know sounds 580 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,520 Speaker 1: brutal and cold. And I'm not saying that the people 581 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,839 Speaker 1: UH expressing those values do not themselves believe in them. 582 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:30,040 Speaker 1: I think often they do. But those are also tremendous rationalizations. 583 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: Countries do not have friends, countries have interests. Right when 584 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 1: you get to that level, we know that. We know, however, 585 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: that single individuals can and do make a difference, such 586 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,759 Speaker 1: as the reporters we've cited in today's episode. UH. This 587 00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 1: reporting lead to action in Congress, which I'm happy to 588 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 1: report U S Senator Ron Wyden from Oregon introduced something 589 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: he called the Saudi Fugitives dec Classification Act. Of this 590 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: is not aimed at prosecuting these nationals because legally, again 591 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: due to extradition treaties, the ball is in the Kingdom's court. 592 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,360 Speaker 1: Like it it would spark a war if the US 593 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 1: sent someone in to extract a Saudi national. That is 594 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: one of the dumbest things that the U. S could 595 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:29,080 Speaker 1: possibly do. And I know, lately it seems like our 596 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 1: international actions are based on answering that question, what is 597 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: the dumbest thing we do next? But this that's been 598 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,560 Speaker 1: happening for a while. That's true, that's true. But this 599 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: is not This is not something in the cards, is 600 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Uh So, the Fugitives Declassification Act is 601 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:55,799 Speaker 1: made to compel the US federal government to publicly disclose 602 00:40:56,000 --> 00:41:01,480 Speaker 1: what it knows about Saudi Arabia's suspected in helping citizens 603 00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:07,319 Speaker 1: escape prosecution. So we're government employees. If you're a U. 604 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,120 Speaker 1: S citizen, technically they all work for you. So this 605 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,400 Speaker 1: is a bill by one of your employees that is 606 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: telling some of your other employees to give us more 607 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: details about the job they're supposed to be doing for you. 608 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: And that's going to run into a lot of loopholes 609 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:30,359 Speaker 1: because when anytime counter terrorism comes up there there's gonna 610 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,359 Speaker 1: be a lot of redaction of stuff. Right. We can 611 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 1: only imagine. Yeah, you know, we talked earlier about needing 612 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,560 Speaker 1: serious evidence to be able to outright publicly accuse the 613 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabian government of taking these actions, right, and really, 614 00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,319 Speaker 1: what to me? This bill reads as, Hey, if you 615 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: actually know that this is happening, show us the evidence 616 00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,360 Speaker 1: and lay it out on the table somewhere so we 617 00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: can can so we can really show that this is 618 00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,200 Speaker 1: what's happening. And again, Ron Wyden, Senator Ron Wyden of 619 00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:06,360 Speaker 1: Oregon is, like you said, Ben, as an employee of 620 00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 1: the people of Oregon. He it's it seems like he's 621 00:42:09,320 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 1: doing it for those people who like if you we're 622 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,520 Speaker 1: talking about that fifteen year old the very start of 623 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,560 Speaker 1: this episode who was killed in that hit and run accident, 624 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 1: hopefully that's what it would mean. Is there something special 625 00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:22,920 Speaker 1: about Oregon in the Pacific Northwest that's led to so 626 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: many of these cases happening there? Or is this just 627 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,560 Speaker 1: kind of like a microcosm of the bigger picture. It's 628 00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:32,080 Speaker 1: an interesting question. I would say that to a degree 629 00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:35,640 Speaker 1: it's a microcosm bigger picture, and to a degree it's 630 00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,399 Speaker 1: based on it. It's in the Northwest, because you ask 631 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 1: this question earlier. To a degree, it's the the maybe 632 00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,279 Speaker 1: the nature of how the initial incidents were reported and 633 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,360 Speaker 1: then discovered and cohalated. But make no mistake, this is 634 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:55,880 Speaker 1: not the Northwest specific, yeah, nor as we'll find is 635 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,560 Speaker 1: it a U S specific thing, nor as we all know, 636 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 1: do bills always become laws? There are tons of everybody 637 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:11,080 Speaker 1: remembers that song, right, I love that one. Uh So 638 00:43:11,560 --> 00:43:15,760 Speaker 1: it's right up there with the uh that conspiracy animation 639 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,920 Speaker 1: that played once on Saturday at Night Live, which I 640 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 1: think you guys remember. But the but the thing is, 641 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,760 Speaker 1: this bill was signed into law. The current presidential administration 642 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,279 Speaker 1: signed it late last year, towards the end of last year. 643 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: Now the question is will it be enforced? But we 644 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: have to be we have to be honest. This is 645 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,960 Speaker 1: this is an issue that is not restricted to college students. 646 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,480 Speaker 1: It is not restricted to the United States, it is 647 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 1: not restricted to Saudi Arabia. I would say this is 648 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:51,879 Speaker 1: this is one of the cases and we talked about 649 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,600 Speaker 1: off here, like consider the case of someone named Maid 650 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: Abdul disease. I'll sound so in this guy, who's a 651 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,680 Speaker 1: member of the royal family is living in Beverly Hills, 652 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,360 Speaker 1: and he and a lot of a lot of people, 653 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,840 Speaker 1: a lot of really well off folks from the Gulf, 654 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:13,319 Speaker 1: will have a mansion in Beverly Hills, just like how 655 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: you know you know you've really made it in the 656 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,520 Speaker 1: financial elite when you have a dope house in London. 657 00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:22,359 Speaker 1: So this guy became the subject of a civil suit, 658 00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,760 Speaker 1: not a criminal suit, in Los Angeles when three women 659 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:30,799 Speaker 1: claimed he hired them as housekeepers and then forcibly confined 660 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:37,520 Speaker 1: them for three days to this crazy drug sex partying 661 00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:42,880 Speaker 1: montage at his Beverly Hills mansion, like assaulted them, held 662 00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:46,800 Speaker 1: them captive. Got really weird with King Geoffrey style or 663 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: what's that other guy m Ramsey Boltam. Yeah, although he 664 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,360 Speaker 1: was more in torturing people, I think Geoffrey might be 665 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: a more well, they were both pretty into torturing people 666 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,840 Speaker 1: and and and excess your spot on, Ben, So we 667 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,640 Speaker 1: you do want to say, we're going to share some 668 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: of the the stuff that this this fellow was accused 669 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:12,600 Speaker 1: of doing. He was two weird things. It wasn't like 670 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,720 Speaker 1: the typical and I hate to say it that way, 671 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:18,919 Speaker 1: but it wasn't like what you would always think of 672 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 1: when you think of sexual assault. It wasn't just that 673 00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:28,960 Speaker 1: like he did try to force these people to perform 674 00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,359 Speaker 1: sexual acts on him, but he also did stuff like 675 00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:36,280 Speaker 1: take off his clothes and like rub himself on literally 676 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,040 Speaker 1: everybody else in the mansion, these these poor women, his 677 00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,880 Speaker 1: security guards, like people who are just by the pool, 678 00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,759 Speaker 1: and he was saying stuff like lick me, lick my 679 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:52,120 Speaker 1: whole body. And I maybe it's just the fact that 680 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,680 Speaker 1: no one has ever said no to him. Then he 681 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,560 Speaker 1: ordered his entire staff to get naked by the pool 682 00:45:58,120 --> 00:46:02,719 Speaker 1: and said vulgar things to him, and one woman protested, 683 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,479 Speaker 1: and that's when he told her this. Yeah, he said, 684 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,239 Speaker 1: you're not a woman, you're nobody. I'm a prince and 685 00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,760 Speaker 1: I'll do what i want and nobody will do anything 686 00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:16,439 Speaker 1: to me. So clearly an ingrained attitude. Uh. And then 687 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:21,000 Speaker 1: he you know, uh, triggery stuff here, folks, if you 688 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:24,800 Speaker 1: haven't already kind of warned it, but double trigger warning. Um. 689 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:29,680 Speaker 1: He tried to urinate on people, make them watch another 690 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:35,719 Speaker 1: man perform a sex act on him. Um. And you 691 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:39,600 Speaker 1: know this is a person that has not and most 692 00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: assuredly will not be prosecuted. And this, of course, isn't 693 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,680 Speaker 1: the only case we're looking at. There's so many here 694 00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:48,600 Speaker 1: we're not going to name them. But let's look at 695 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,399 Speaker 1: the case of Prince Saud bin Abdulla Zis been this year. 696 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,720 Speaker 1: I'll sawd who in two thousand and ten was convicted 697 00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:00,440 Speaker 1: of murdering his servant, Bendar Abdulla Ziz, with whom he 698 00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:05,120 Speaker 1: had been carrying on a sexual relationship. Um. It was 699 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:10,560 Speaker 1: pretty terrible. Bandar was beaten strangled until he died. It 700 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:13,279 Speaker 1: was described as a drunken rage that the Prince had 701 00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:17,600 Speaker 1: entered into when this occurred, and the Prince, believing that 702 00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:21,800 Speaker 1: he would have some kind of diplomatic immunity, wasn't necessarily 703 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:26,000 Speaker 1: afraid of any repercussions. However, the UK did move forward 704 00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:31,399 Speaker 1: with custody. They took him in and attempted prosecution right right. 705 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:35,040 Speaker 1: And this this case is interesting because there's a question 706 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:39,640 Speaker 1: of whether or not the Prince actually wanted to return 707 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,120 Speaker 1: to Saudi Arabia after what was revealed in the court 708 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:49,800 Speaker 1: proceedings because UH, publicly revealing that he was in a 709 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:56,120 Speaker 1: the same sex relationship of any sort could make him 710 00:47:56,480 --> 00:48:00,400 Speaker 1: UH could make him liable for the cross time of 711 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 1: homosexuality and Saudi Arabia, which could lead to the death penalty. 712 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:09,000 Speaker 1: So he would want to, you know, if his life 713 00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:10,960 Speaker 1: is on the line. He may have needed to seek 714 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:15,680 Speaker 1: asylum in the UK after serving his sentence because the 715 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:22,960 Speaker 1: UK has non medieval laws in However, the Prince was, 716 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,400 Speaker 1: in an extraordinary move returned to Saudi Arabia to a prison, 717 00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:32,359 Speaker 1: ostensibly to serve out his sentence. Again, that's extraordinary. We 718 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:37,320 Speaker 1: will see what actually happens. The laws are just different, 719 00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:40,800 Speaker 1: and and this is making another this is creating another 720 00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,000 Speaker 1: problem in the US that we have to talk about 721 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:48,960 Speaker 1: towards the end. These cases in the US, which are terrible, 722 00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:54,120 Speaker 1: have led to Islamophobic anti Muslim forces right there. They've 723 00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,280 Speaker 1: taken this stuff up and their stereotyping somehow all people 724 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: from Saudi Arabia are all people from the Islamic world 725 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:06,000 Speaker 1: as as um, exactly like the criminals in question here, 726 00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,319 Speaker 1: which is terrible. It's one of the worst things to 727 00:49:10,360 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 1: take away from this. UH. Ginger Mooney, who we mentioned 728 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 1: at the beginning, served as defense attorney for several individuals 729 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:20,880 Speaker 1: in the Oregan cases. She's received death threats, anti Muslim propaganda. 730 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:25,439 Speaker 1: She had to temporarily close her practice. UH. People are 731 00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,840 Speaker 1: using this as a way to so religious persecution and division, 732 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,600 Speaker 1: which is unclean. But the point is here that it doesn't. 733 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:36,080 Speaker 1: It doesn't seem its religion that matters. It just seems 734 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:40,680 Speaker 1: like money and things like counter terrorism or geopolitical relationships 735 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:43,560 Speaker 1: weigh heavily on the scales of justice. Go back to 736 00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:48,200 Speaker 1: Afghanistan and look at how much trouble UH members of 737 00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:53,920 Speaker 1: the military got into when they refused to allow child 738 00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,319 Speaker 1: abuser warlords to function as normal, you know what I mean. 739 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,360 Speaker 1: They got discharged, I believe in some cases because they 740 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:05,840 Speaker 1: would find like literal children chained up to be abused 741 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,319 Speaker 1: by people who are like police chiefs, and they were 742 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,920 Speaker 1: told not to do anything about it. And I mean, 743 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,840 Speaker 1: that's that's what's happening. It's a series of compromises to 744 00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,160 Speaker 1: a greater good and sometimes and you know what, in 745 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,520 Speaker 1: terms of counters heroism, it seems like the end goal 746 00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:24,759 Speaker 1: just keeps moving, right, there's not a finish line. Um, 747 00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,400 Speaker 1: It's not like other nations are necessarily different. We have 748 00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:32,720 Speaker 1: the case of and sackle us here in the US, 749 00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:37,719 Speaker 1: wife of the US diplomat struck and killed a teenager 750 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:40,560 Speaker 1: nineteen year old in the United Kingdom while driving on 751 00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,960 Speaker 1: the wrong side of the road. Is not going to 752 00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:48,799 Speaker 1: get in trouble for it whatsoever. When you're important, you're wealthy, 753 00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:53,560 Speaker 1: it really is a different system. And Prince Andrew, ye, 754 00:50:53,920 --> 00:51:00,000 Speaker 1: Prince Andrew, I really didn't want to think about him today. 755 00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,560 Speaker 1: Sam's been sorry guys, but that's I mean, that's where 756 00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:07,240 Speaker 1: we're at. And now we want to pass the torch 757 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,440 Speaker 1: to you. What do what do you think let us know. 758 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:15,080 Speaker 1: I mean, is it Noel Matt, is it uh overly 759 00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,239 Speaker 1: cynical or negative to say that this is probably going 760 00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:20,960 Speaker 1: to continue? What what do you guys think? I mean, 761 00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:26,600 Speaker 1: it's I think realistic based on the patterns that we've seen, 762 00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:30,120 Speaker 1: based on how difficult it is to actually enforce this 763 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:35,520 Speaker 1: stuff because of the complicity of folks in power on 764 00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:38,640 Speaker 1: our side, well, I mean folks in power everywhere. It's 765 00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,880 Speaker 1: it's complicity across the globe. When there when there's power 766 00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:48,120 Speaker 1: and strategic advantage to being friends, right we we we 767 00:51:48,280 --> 00:51:51,319 Speaker 1: talked about that numerous times. There are new friends in 768 00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:54,880 Speaker 1: politics in this way, but there are their strategies, their allies. 769 00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,680 Speaker 1: There are dominoes that can be set up in their 770 00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:01,080 Speaker 1: levers that can be pulled in when when that is 771 00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:05,799 Speaker 1: so important, specifically the relationship between the United States and 772 00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,640 Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia, you know, because of resources, because of position 773 00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:14,440 Speaker 1: where they where they are, historic wealth that exists in 774 00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:16,640 Speaker 1: in the kingdom. I mean, what are you gonna do, 775 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:21,040 Speaker 1: Like you said, Ben, you can't send in a team 776 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:25,759 Speaker 1: to extract someone. You can't really do anything besides take 777 00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,279 Speaker 1: a flashlight and shine it on the stuff that we 778 00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:32,080 Speaker 1: know and Hopefully, good God, hopefully that bill goes through 779 00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:36,520 Speaker 1: and at least it will be a known thing. But 780 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:41,320 Speaker 1: even then people have to care enough to care. Yeah, 781 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:43,600 Speaker 1: you know, and and one thing, and we didn't get 782 00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:46,600 Speaker 1: to an excellent point you'reraised now, is that there has 783 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:48,880 Speaker 1: to be complicity on the U S side. I would argue, 784 00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:52,879 Speaker 1: not just the high level stuff. Obviously people made a 785 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:57,280 Speaker 1: cost benefit analysis there, but but someone has to monitor 786 00:52:57,320 --> 00:53:00,520 Speaker 1: the planes flying in and out right. Some one works 787 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:05,080 Speaker 1: at the airport, you know, someone someone greenlit this stuff. 788 00:53:05,160 --> 00:53:07,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I remember being on a grounded flight one 789 00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:10,480 Speaker 1: time because of like you know, runway trouble or I 790 00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,080 Speaker 1: don't remember exactly what it was, maybe there was a 791 00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,359 Speaker 1: mechanical thing. But I got off the plane to like 792 00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:18,160 Speaker 1: get a snack, and they wouldn't let me back on 793 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,440 Speaker 1: the plane like until they reboarded. Like, there are serious 794 00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:26,680 Speaker 1: guidelines and like regulations that go into who can and 795 00:53:26,719 --> 00:53:31,239 Speaker 1: cannot get back onto planes, you know, a procedural kind 796 00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:34,920 Speaker 1: of situation that is you know, held to iron clad 797 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,919 Speaker 1: by these folks. So but if we're talking about private flights, right, 798 00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:43,000 Speaker 1: we're talking about like, you know, the handful of people 799 00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:44,640 Speaker 1: that are all on a plane that's a good point. 800 00:53:44,680 --> 00:53:50,759 Speaker 1: I don't even think about six. Oh no, I don't 801 00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:54,600 Speaker 1: have this specifics of the plane actually right now unless 802 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:59,840 Speaker 1: this uh Declassification Act shakes something loose. UH. The official 803 00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,759 Speaker 1: it is, we're not sure how. We're not sure about 804 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,280 Speaker 1: the specifics of how people are getting out. We haven't 805 00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:09,160 Speaker 1: been able to find a specific plane, a specific airport, 806 00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,880 Speaker 1: or specific routes. But yeah, but I mean that's kind 807 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:13,640 Speaker 1: of the point. If it's a smaller plane on a 808 00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,839 Speaker 1: smaller airport. I mean, the amount of complicity that would 809 00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:20,920 Speaker 1: be necessary from a government agency I think would be minimum. 810 00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:24,839 Speaker 1: Now your spot on their Matt, I completely got Yeah, 811 00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:27,120 Speaker 1: I agree. I do have to give one shout out 812 00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:30,680 Speaker 1: so it's not just a terrible negative ending. I do 813 00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,880 Speaker 1: have to give one shout out to uh the time 814 00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,200 Speaker 1: that the US said, yes, we will invade your country 815 00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,080 Speaker 1: and we will snatch people up and take them back. 816 00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:45,080 Speaker 1: It's not Saudi Arabia, it's the Netherlands. It's the Invade 817 00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,360 Speaker 1: the Hague Act. Do you guys remember this one? In 818 00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,279 Speaker 1: the Hague? Uh? The American Service Members Protection Act to 819 00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:55,640 Speaker 1: two thousand two authorizes the use of military force to 820 00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:59,240 Speaker 1: liberate any American or citizen of the U S allied 821 00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:06,040 Speaker 1: country being held at the International Criminal Court. Wow. So 822 00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,719 Speaker 1: the idea is that that in that case, the US 823 00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:11,600 Speaker 1: will invade and will extract an individual. But I think 824 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,920 Speaker 1: that's meant to protect various v i p S in 825 00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:19,520 Speaker 1: the US from war crime accusations. Yeah, oh my god, 826 00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:24,239 Speaker 1: that is heinous though. Yeah. So the Netherlands technically is 827 00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:29,239 Speaker 1: number one, uh as far as extractions. But uh, now 828 00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,280 Speaker 1: we want to hear from you. Let us know. Uh 829 00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:37,279 Speaker 1: it is this calculation brutal, cold though it may be, 830 00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:40,840 Speaker 1: is it ultimately correct? Is there something else should that 831 00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:44,799 Speaker 1: should be done? What should what should federal authorities say 832 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:49,160 Speaker 1: to the families? Right? And uh? What does this mean 833 00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:51,120 Speaker 1: for the future. You can find us on Facebook, you 834 00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,240 Speaker 1: can find us on Instagram, you can find us on Twitter. 835 00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:56,359 Speaker 1: We'd like to recommend. Here's where it gets crazy. There 836 00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,920 Speaker 1: is a quiz. Just say our names all of us, 837 00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:01,880 Speaker 1: and one of us say something. Lets us know you 838 00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:06,560 Speaker 1: heard the episode. Uh say something uh wonderful that makes 839 00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,840 Speaker 1: us laugh. Give us your best bad dad jokes. But 840 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:11,959 Speaker 1: if you don't love social media, then you can also 841 00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:14,480 Speaker 1: just give us a ring. Yep, that's one eight three 842 00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:17,480 Speaker 1: three st D w I t K. Leave us a message. 843 00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:19,759 Speaker 1: Try to keep it brief. If you can fit your 844 00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,280 Speaker 1: story in a three minutes or less, that is golden 845 00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,319 Speaker 1: on our end. Uh, And please let us know if 846 00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:26,879 Speaker 1: you are okay with us sharing it, because you may 847 00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:29,720 Speaker 1: be aware. We now do weekly listen tour mail shows 848 00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:33,359 Speaker 1: and these voicemails are a big part of that. That's right. 849 00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:38,520 Speaker 1: And check out YouTube YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. 850 00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:41,799 Speaker 1: Check out all of our videos. They're all hanging out there. 851 00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:45,840 Speaker 1: And uh, watch clips from these episodes of the podcast 852 00:56:45,920 --> 00:56:48,680 Speaker 1: that we're making right now and teaser. We have more 853 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:52,040 Speaker 1: episodes on the way. We're still working during the pandemic. 854 00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:56,000 Speaker 1: So honestly, our our video team is great. We just 855 00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:59,680 Speaker 1: have to keep uploading these files. Yeah, mine are still 856 00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,239 Speaker 1: going right now. My video files from the last two 857 00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,000 Speaker 1: weeks are going up right now, So we have some 858 00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,719 Speaker 1: surprises for you on the way. Do tune in. But hey, 859 00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,240 Speaker 1: you might be saying, I like YouTube, but those videos 860 00:57:12,320 --> 00:57:17,840 Speaker 1: aren't up yet. I hate phones because it's and calling 861 00:57:17,920 --> 00:57:20,920 Speaker 1: people is kind of offensive. Uh. And I don't like 862 00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,800 Speaker 1: social media because I listened to your other episodes about 863 00:57:23,800 --> 00:57:26,800 Speaker 1: how terrible social media is. I have something to tell you, 864 00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,440 Speaker 1: how do I talk to you? Well, we have good news. 865 00:57:30,800 --> 00:57:34,320 Speaker 1: You can contact us wherever you are, whatever time you wish, 866 00:57:34,640 --> 00:57:36,880 Speaker 1: whenever the spirit moves you at our good old fashioned 867 00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,600 Speaker 1: email address where we are Conspiracy and iHeart radio dot com. 868 00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:01,760 Speaker 1: Stuff Don't Want You to Know is a production of 869 00:58:01,880 --> 00:58:04,800 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. 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