Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and I Heart Radio. It's the big take.
Speaker 1: I'm West Cassova today how researchers around the world are
Speaker 1: using the big breakthrough behind the COVID vaccine to find
Speaker 1: treatments for diseases of all kinds. Thanks to COVID, we're
Speaker 1: all experts now in viruses and vaccines. M RNA, and
Speaker 1: that last one, messenger RNA, is what we're talking about today.
Speaker 1: It's the technology that made it possible to quickly develop
Speaker 1: the COVID vaccine, and now researchers and drug makers are
Speaker 1: racing to use the same technique for other illnesses, including
Speaker 1: the big one to treat cancers. Before we dive into that,
Speaker 1: maybe we should take a second to freshen up on
Speaker 1: just what m RNA is and why it's such a
Speaker 1: big deal. Most traditional vaccines, like for flu or for
Speaker 1: measle months work by injecting a weekend or dead strain
Speaker 1: of those viruses or a piece of them into your arm.
Speaker 1: Your body's immune system to text the intruder and a
Speaker 1: tax it and makes antibodies to fight off the disease
Speaker 1: if you're ever exposed to it for real. Now, m
Speaker 1: RNA vaccines are different mRNA is really the middleman, and
Speaker 1: it brings the code for each gene to a machine
Speaker 1: in our cell that reads the RNA and produces a
Speaker 1: protein from that code. That's Dr Drew Wiseman, a vaccine
Speaker 1: researcher at the University of Pennsylvania. He and his colleague
Speaker 1: doctor Catalan Caroco develop the mr ANDA technology used in
Speaker 1: the COVID shots. I'll talk more with Dr Wiseman in
Speaker 1: a moment. M RNA, that middleman, he called it, is
Speaker 1: part of your body's genetic structure. Its job is to
Speaker 1: deliver instructions to yoursels. It tells them to make certain
Speaker 1: proteins you need to live. An mRNA vaccine works by
Speaker 1: injecting m RNA into your body that's been programmed to
Speaker 1: tell yourselves to make proteins that match the proteins found
Speaker 1: in the real virus, like the spike proteins sticking up
Speaker 1: out of the coronavirus that makes those photos of it
Speaker 1: looks so scary. Your body's immune system sees this foreign
Speaker 1: material and makes anti bodies that can protect you later
Speaker 1: if you're exposed to real COVID. M RNA research has
Speaker 1: been happening for decades and a lot of scientists made
Speaker 1: important contributions, but one nagging problem kept getting in the
Speaker 1: way of an m RNA vaccine. The body was attacking
Speaker 1: the m RNA itself before it could deliver its message.
Speaker 1: This is where doctors Wiseman and Carrico come in. Their
Speaker 1: breakthrough was to modify the RNA so your immune system
Speaker 1: sees it as harmless and lets it do its job.
Speaker 1: That opened the door to the COVID vaccine and using
Speaker 1: mRNA for all kinds of other potential treatments and cures.
Speaker 1: Their work won them a three million dollar Science Award,
Speaker 1: and they're mentioned as possible contenders for a Nobel Prize.
Speaker 1: None of this may have happened if it weren't for
Speaker 1: a chance encounter. Wiseman and Kariko had at the photo
Speaker 1: copy machine back in the nine es. She had been
Speaker 1: working on it for around ten years and nobody was interested.
Speaker 1: And we met and we started working together, and people
Speaker 1: still weren't interested. But we were able to develop a
Speaker 1: new way of working on RNA, and that led to
Speaker 1: the development of nucleus side modified mRNA that people finally
Speaker 1: became interested in. As Dr Wiseman and I got talking,
Speaker 1: I asked him why mRNA research was such a hard sell.
Speaker 1: RNA had been studied, it had been put into clinical trials,
Speaker 1: and it had failed. So when Katie and I started
Speaker 1: working on it, we developed new ways of making RNA
Speaker 1: therapy work better. So is it an overstatement to say
Speaker 1: that if you had not had a fateful encounter at
Speaker 1: the copying machine, we might not have had the coronavirus
Speaker 1: vaccine as quickly as we did. Um, Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that's true. That is pretty fascinating. Do you ever just
Speaker 1: sort of look back on that moment and think, my goodness,
Speaker 1: what if? Yeah, my wife and kids point that out
Speaker 1: to us all of the time. And then when the
Speaker 1: coronavirus first emerged in Wuhan, China, I believe you were
Speaker 1: working on a flu vaccine and then you sort of
Speaker 1: switched right because you saw a great promise in this. Exactly,
Speaker 1: we were working on flu and other vaccines, and when
Speaker 1: the COVID nineteen virus came out, we saw that as
Speaker 1: a potential difficulty for the world, and we switched to
Speaker 1: working on COVID nineteen. So you actually saw this and said,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, this is going to be a very
Speaker 1: big problem for the world, kind of like and went overstated,
Speaker 1: but the world needs me, I guess so. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm kind of too humble to say something like that.
Speaker 1: But when I saw the death and the disease come
Speaker 1: out of Wuhan, China, my labs started working on it
Speaker 1: with the idea of that this could be a really
Speaker 1: bad thing and we needed to do something. And how
Speaker 1: quickly did you realize that the work that you had
Speaker 1: been doing for years was really very well suited for
Speaker 1: this particular virus. So it was really immediate because we
Speaker 1: saw this as a brand new, unknown virus that was
Speaker 1: having worldwide potential damage and we needed to do something,
Speaker 1: and the RNA that Katie and I had developed appeared
Speaker 1: like a great potential way to address it. Now, the
Speaker 1: UK has approved defineser Beyonce vaccine for use. That makes
Speaker 1: Britain the first Western country to license a coronavirus vacts.
Speaker 1: The fate of FISS COVID vaccine aur livees in the
Speaker 1: hands of regulators who will be scrutinizing safety and efficacy.
Speaker 1: Dating Certainly, everything that's been talked about from the FISER
Speaker 1: and the Maderna vaccine as well up to date has
Speaker 1: been very positive and leaves me optimistic about this vaccine
Speaker 1: coming down the pipeline. So it was the goal now
Speaker 1: to try to come up with a vaccine against coronavirus
Speaker 1: that is the one that will attack them all exactly.
Speaker 1: So we and others have been working on vaccines that
Speaker 1: work against any virus that suddenly appears in the world.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you about the business side of this.
Speaker 1: So you paint a picture of a platform that could
Speaker 1: quickly address a new disease, But the way the pharmaceutical
Speaker 1: industry has worked is that they wanted to keep a
Speaker 1: pretty close hold and newly developed therapies because they spend
Speaker 1: a lot making them and they want to profit from them.
Speaker 1: Do you see this as the sort of thing where
Speaker 1: scientists and drug companies would actually share, or that there
Speaker 1: would be proprietary versions of each of these platforms that
Speaker 1: different manufacturers keep close to the best. So that brings
Speaker 1: up a so see a economic worldview order that scientists
Speaker 1: like me, we have a view that that we need
Speaker 1: to develop something that can be rapidly used to treat
Speaker 1: the world. How the world deals with that is a
Speaker 1: whole separate and difficult thing. Is that something that you
Speaker 1: discuss with your colleagues. We talked about it all the time,
Speaker 1: sometimes not so kindly, about how the world sometimes deals
Speaker 1: with it. Something that that has been central to my
Speaker 1: really life since I was a tiny child is to
Speaker 1: be able to develop therapies that can be used quickly
Speaker 1: across the world and by the entire world to treat
Speaker 1: and address any disease, any new change in life, change
Speaker 1: in the world that happens. It's important that it's available
Speaker 1: to the entire world to apply to the world's population,
Speaker 1: not just a US or Europe based approach that can
Speaker 1: be applied by wealthy nations and pharmaceutical companies. So I've
Speaker 1: spent my life making therapies available to the world and
Speaker 1: helping the world to develop it and apply it to
Speaker 1: their particular diseases. But when you look at the distribution,
Speaker 1: say of the coronavirus vaccine, it has been very uneven
Speaker 1: around the world, and it's along predictable lines where rich
Speaker 1: countries get it in less rich countries off and don't yees.
Speaker 1: So that's what we've worked on. The minute the vaccine hit,
Speaker 1: I had already been working in Thailand and they came
Speaker 1: to me and said, we're worried that any vaccine that's
Speaker 1: developed won't make it to us very quickly. So I
Speaker 1: work with them to make their own vaccine and their
Speaker 1: own company centers to be able to produce vaccine to
Speaker 1: give to their population and surrounding populations. And we've done
Speaker 1: the same thing in Africa, and we're doing the same
Speaker 1: thing and all disadvantaged reasons of the world. Thank you
Speaker 1: so much for taking the time to talk to me.
Speaker 1: This was just fascinating. Thank you very much. I've enjoyed
Speaker 1: talking with you. When the Big take is back, I
Speaker 1: talked with Bloomberg Healthcare reporter Riley Griffin. She explains how
Speaker 1: we got from Dr wise Men's research to big farmer
Speaker 1: producing billions of doses of COVID vaccine in record time.
Speaker 1: I'm happy to be here with Bloomberg reporter Riley Griffin. Riley,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of companies that see a big
Speaker 1: future in m R and A treatments, and you have
Speaker 1: written a fascinating story about one of the big ones. Visor.
Speaker 1: We're all familiar with Viser now because of the vaccine,
Speaker 1: and it's an interesting story because before the pandemic, Fiser
Speaker 1: had become something of sort of a staid company. They're huge,
Speaker 1: they have a ton of money, and they used that
Speaker 1: money to buy other drug companies instead of making their own.
Speaker 1: But COVID changed that. COVID changed that absolutely. I would
Speaker 1: say there was a shift right before COVID. Let me
Speaker 1: take you back to Albert Borla takes the helm of
Speaker 1: viser Um. He is the new CEO, and he ultimately
Speaker 1: had a new vision for viser So this company that
Speaker 1: had become quite a conglomerate with many of these big
Speaker 1: blockbuster drugs that had gone off patent, think Viagra, think lipatore.
Speaker 1: It hadn't had innovation in quite some time, and it
Speaker 1: was looking to be more like the nimble biotechs that
Speaker 1: were spurring a lot of investor interest, real growth stories.
Speaker 1: And so Albert Borla had hived off the off patent
Speaker 1: generic drug unit and sold it into another company. And ultimately,
Speaker 1: you know, they were looking for science and that was
Speaker 1: early hits. Albert bolas at a helm and they have
Speaker 1: to decide what to do next. And they had already
Speaker 1: been looking at these mRNA vaccines, but they weren't looking
Speaker 1: at it for COVID. They've already been working on it precisely.
Speaker 1: Wes so back in Visor clinches this deal with a
Speaker 1: German company called bion Tech, and bion Tech was a
Speaker 1: player in m RNA messenger RNA and Fiser had turned
Speaker 1: to buy on Tech to work on an mRNA vaccine
Speaker 1: for flu. Why did they think that it would transfer
Speaker 1: naturally from flu to the coronavirus, which is a different
Speaker 1: kind of virus. So there are a couple of benefits
Speaker 1: to messenger RNA when it comes to vaccination, especially for
Speaker 1: infectious disease UM. One is that messenger RNA ultimately allows
Speaker 1: the body to be its own vaccine factory and create
Speaker 1: those antibodies to thwart whatever the threat may be, in
Speaker 1: this case COVID and so in the sense it compresses
Speaker 1: the timeline. But also even more critically, the time to
Speaker 1: manufacture mRNA is much shorter. So other vaccines require you too,
Speaker 1: especially for flu. For example, you grow flu vaccines in eggs.
Speaker 1: Um you can grow them in cells. There's there's a
Speaker 1: cultivation process, and that takes a lot of time and
Speaker 1: it takes a lot of resources. You don't have that here.
Speaker 1: You create the messenger RNA and nothing needs to grow.
Speaker 1: It goes straight into the body and so UM you
Speaker 1: can also adapt messenger RNA quite quickly one time, Albert
Speaker 1: Borla described it to me kind of like a VCR player.
Speaker 1: You put the cassette in the tape. I'm dating myself there.
Speaker 1: You put the tape in and you can take it
Speaker 1: out and plug something else. The point being, Messenger RNA
Speaker 1: is a really great tool if you want to compress
Speaker 1: the production timeline, and that's what we needed in January
Speaker 1: of money. So now, Fiser, you know how the story went.
Speaker 1: They created this vaccine that was used millions millions people
Speaker 1: around the world, and then when the different variants came out,
Speaker 1: they tried to to match it using, as you describe,
Speaker 1: the technology that allows them to kind of quickly readjust
Speaker 1: it with you know, some kind of degree of efficacy.
Speaker 1: Many folks know that this was a massive success. Billions
Speaker 1: of doses shipped around the world to more than a
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty countries, but few people know that this
Speaker 1: vaccine doubled their revenue in a single year. That was
Speaker 1: This year, Viser is expected to make more than a
Speaker 1: hundred billion in revenue off of the vaccine. More than
Speaker 1: half of that will come from the vaccine coupled with
Speaker 1: the anti viral treatment that they've made for COVID paxilovid.
Speaker 1: So the COVID business is more than half their business now.
Speaker 1: But and this is an interesting thing in your story.
Speaker 1: This creates a big problem because they are so geared
Speaker 1: now towards coronavirus, and you know, let's all hope a
Speaker 1: year from now we're not going to be talking about
Speaker 1: this as often as we are now. They need to
Speaker 1: do something else, and so they've sort of decided this
Speaker 1: is their future for all kinds of other diseases. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and they're under pressure Wall Street. I mean this year,
Speaker 1: I think this is going to be their most successful
Speaker 1: year on record. Their stock is down and that's because
Speaker 1: the fears that they just can't you do it again,
Speaker 1: like it was one trick ponies sort of things. They're
Speaker 1: victim of their own success and investors want to see
Speaker 1: visibility into the future of their earnings potential. So what
Speaker 1: are they going to do? So Fiser would say their
Speaker 1: messenger are in a strategy is a big part of
Speaker 1: their future. They are continuing to work with BioNTech on
Speaker 1: flu that could come to market as soon as next year,
Speaker 1: perhaps the year after if successful. Is it only that
Speaker 1: the mrn A flu shot would be quicker to produce
Speaker 1: so you get like a better assessment of which flu
Speaker 1: is coming for us that year, or is it that
Speaker 1: it's also more effective as of accin The latter is
Speaker 1: the biggest question. So we're pretty certain that condensing that
Speaker 1: production time is gonna position us better. That is a
Speaker 1: bet that Fightser is making. It's also about that Maderna
Speaker 1: is making I bet that Maderna has made prior to fight. Maderna,
Speaker 1: of course, is the other very big manufacturer of the coronavirus.
Speaker 1: You might have heard its name. Yeah, that is really
Speaker 1: the first up to bat. That is the first real
Speaker 1: trial of messenger RNA as a platform after the COVID vaccine,
Speaker 1: so highly anticipated. Your question as to whether it will
Speaker 1: be more effective, I can't tell you. Only the data will,
Speaker 1: and we are watching for that data. One of the
Speaker 1: questions that always comes up around drug companies is that
Speaker 1: they spend a ton of money to develop these treatments
Speaker 1: that are great benefit of the war old, and you know,
Speaker 1: rich countries and rich people tend to get them in
Speaker 1: less rich countries and people tend to not. The conditions
Speaker 1: in which we've seen the COVID nineteen vaccines distributed are
Speaker 1: unique to date governments have been the large purchasers Fiser
Speaker 1: Moderna to they've priced the products differently for low, middle
Speaker 1: and high income countries. I think there's a real question
Speaker 1: of what happens after we switch to a commercial market,
Speaker 1: and that is the plan next year. The plan next
Speaker 1: year is that the US government will no longer pay
Speaker 1: for COVID nineteen vaccines, let alone other COVID treatments, and
Speaker 1: that this will shift to ensures and the more traditional
Speaker 1: healthcare system in which we all get our drugs. Once
Speaker 1: you shift to that commercial market, I think there's a
Speaker 1: real question as to how these companies will price the products,
Speaker 1: what that will mean in terms of access, what that
Speaker 1: will mean in terms of global distribution, and where the
Speaker 1: innovation really ultimately goes. Riley, thanks so much. This is
Speaker 1: really terrific. Of course, thanks for having me. Coming up next,
Speaker 1: the m RNA treatments we could see in the future
Speaker 1: with Bloomberg's chief medical writer, Robert Langreth. We talked to
Speaker 1: Dr Drew Wiseman about the future of m RNA technology
Speaker 1: and Riley Griffin about what big companies like Fightser are
Speaker 1: doing to try to develop it. So next I wanted
Speaker 1: to check in with Bloomberg's chief medical writer Robert Langreth,
Speaker 1: and asked him what new cures can we expect to
Speaker 1: see coming soon? So the way you have to look
Speaker 1: at this is, you know, at the beginning of a
Speaker 1: new therapeutic area, you know, it sort of looks like,
Speaker 1: you know, endless possibilities, and then it takes years and
Speaker 1: years of research to figure out, you know, which are
Speaker 1: those possibilities, Which is our therapeutic possibilities are you know,
Speaker 1: really going to pan out with practical therapies that have
Speaker 1: advantages over previous generations of therapies. So we're kind of
Speaker 1: for m RNA, we're kind of at the endless possibility stage,
Speaker 1: and we're still like doing the research to filter down
Speaker 1: to figure out, like, which of those things are you know,
Speaker 1: are really gonna work out in terms of a big
Speaker 1: deal in terms of practical therapeutics. That's a really interesting
Speaker 1: point because one of the things that we were hearing
Speaker 1: when we were having our conversations was that mrn A
Speaker 1: allowed the COVID vaccine to be developed much more quickly
Speaker 1: than other vaccines, and it was able to sort of
Speaker 1: short circuit the usual very lengthy process. Um. So you
Speaker 1: seem to be saying that that won't necessarily be true
Speaker 1: when they try to apply that same process to other diseases. Well,
Speaker 1: so here's what I would say. I would say that,
Speaker 1: you know, one of the clear and chief advantages of
Speaker 1: m RNA over other types of therapeutic anti vaccine approach
Speaker 1: is one of the clear advantages is in sort of
Speaker 1: the speed of manufacturing and how quickly you can adjust that. Now, obviously,
Speaker 1: you know, the pandemic highlighted one of m RNA's chief advantages,
Speaker 1: which is just manufacturing something fast and kind of adjusting
Speaker 1: on the fly. And it's not so clear yet how
Speaker 1: important that advantage will be in you know, other non
Speaker 1: emergency situations that the pandemic proved. One area that m
Speaker 1: RNA will definitely work for is vaccines, and so that
Speaker 1: sort of d risk to some extent other similar infectious
Speaker 1: disease vaccine areas has suggests that, you know, there's nothing
Speaker 1: stopping this from working in infectious disease anti viral vaccines,
Speaker 1: and so that d risk other antiviral vaccines in terms
Speaker 1: of m RNA. When you say d risk, what do
Speaker 1: you mean? What is the risk? Here's what I mean
Speaker 1: by D risk. Basically, it took some of the risk
Speaker 1: out of developing other m RNA vaccines. For infectious disease vaccines,
Speaker 1: it showed m RNA can definitively work, can succeed and
Speaker 1: be effective foreign infectious viral disease. When you say risk,
Speaker 1: do you mean that the risk that you spend a
Speaker 1: lot of years and a ton of money and you
Speaker 1: come up without a treatment. Yes, it just might not work.
Speaker 1: There are other efficacy barriers that are just different from
Speaker 1: infectious diseases. For COVID, we kind of we knew kind
Speaker 1: of what the best thing to attack was pretty much
Speaker 1: right off the bat, despite protein that stuck up from
Speaker 1: the service, that was a thing we wanted to generate
Speaker 1: an immune response against. Now, for cancer vaccines, and you're
Speaker 1: trying to stimulate the body into generating an immune response
Speaker 1: that targets cancer cells and kills them. That's what you're
Speaker 1: trying to do, and that's why it's called cancer vaccines.
Speaker 1: And it's been this really promising area that's never quite
Speaker 1: worked out in a big way and you know, turned
Speaker 1: out to be very very hard. So one of the
Speaker 1: things about cancer, of course, is people think about we're
Speaker 1: going to have a moonshot to cure cancer. But cancer
Speaker 1: isn't one disease, it's many diseases. Does m r and
Speaker 1: A hold any advantage in trying to treat many different
Speaker 1: kinds of cancers in a way that exist instinc treatments do. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So one of the most interesting areas that is being
Speaker 1: tested with m RNA and cancer is personalized cancer vaccines.
Speaker 1: And this is an area that play that's still in
Speaker 1: a relatively early stages of testing and both Maderna and
Speaker 1: bion Techno working on it, but this is an area
Speaker 1: that kind of plays into the strengths of m RNA
Speaker 1: and the ability to manufacture things quickly. So for personalized
Speaker 1: cancer vaccines, you're actually taking samples of patients own tumors
Speaker 1: and developing vaccines that would stimulate, uh, the immune system
Speaker 1: attack characteristics of patients own tumors. This is like the
Speaker 1: personalized vaccines, and the manufacturing has to go fast, and
Speaker 1: that's something that can be done with m RNA because
Speaker 1: m RNA the technology just allows kind of quick manufacturing
Speaker 1: of individualized mRNA constructs of the pieces of m RNA
Speaker 1: that are using the vaccines, and that's just something that
Speaker 1: technology enables and it's one of the problems in developing
Speaker 1: personalized cancer vaccines that the main facturing is very bespoke
Speaker 1: uh and individualized, and that's hard to do with previous
Speaker 1: technologies that were the production process is a bit slower.
Speaker 1: So is that something that is showing promise in the
Speaker 1: laboratory and that actually could go into production sooner? Is
Speaker 1: that still in the early testing phases? That is in
Speaker 1: the clinical trials right now? Both BioNTech and my Maderna
Speaker 1: bi on Tech, for example, as a partnership with roche
Speaker 1: as working on personalized cancer vaccines and melanoma and colorectal
Speaker 1: cancer and that's in the second stage of human trials.
Speaker 1: And Maderna is also working on personalized cancer vaccines. Right
Speaker 1: So we talked about cancer, which is showing promise. What
Speaker 1: other diseases are Pharmaceutical companies looking to urna to possibly
Speaker 1: treat cancer, infectus disease and like vaccines, those are like
Speaker 1: the furthest along and the most prominent merk. In August,
Speaker 1: they said they would spend as much as three point
Speaker 1: seven five billion to work on vaccines and cancer therapies
Speaker 1: with a company called Orna Therapeutics, and they're developing this
Speaker 1: like next generation technology called circular RNA, So there's a
Speaker 1: couple of companies trying that. Like rare rare genetic diseases
Speaker 1: is another big area. There's are diseases you probably like,
Speaker 1: you know, names you haven't heard of, that you know,
Speaker 1: affect a small number of people, but you know often
Speaker 1: don't have good therapies, and if you can get something
Speaker 1: to work, uh, you know, you could charge a very
Speaker 1: high price, and patients are in desperate for treatments, and
Speaker 1: there's a lot of these rare diseases. I would say
Speaker 1: rare diseases is probably the third area that ARENA is
Speaker 1: looking very promising. And but I can't say, you know,
Speaker 1: there's a single disease that sticks out there. Test people
Speaker 1: are testing trying a lot of different rare diseases right now.
Speaker 1: So when you look down the road five years from now,
Speaker 1: ten years from now, to the extent that you can do,
Speaker 1: you think that RNA treatments are going to be transformative,
Speaker 1: that they're going to really change the way drugs are
Speaker 1: made and diseases are treated. Yeah, so here's the situation
Speaker 1: kind of right now as I see it. There's definitely
Speaker 1: going to be a number of vaccine results from other
Speaker 1: types of RNA, m r and A vaccines coming out
Speaker 1: in the next few years, and flu being the first one.
Speaker 1: Will definitely get a better sense of like how effective
Speaker 1: is this and what are the advantages disadvantages versus other
Speaker 1: vaccine technologies and more mature vaccine areas such as influence
Speaker 1: and such as uh there's another respiratory disease called r
Speaker 1: s V. So vaccines will have a clear sense of
Speaker 1: cancer within five years, will have a better sense of
Speaker 1: are these personalized cancer vaccines? Are they working well? We'll
Speaker 1: definitely have a bunch of results, will kind of have
Speaker 1: a much better sense of that the rare diseases in
Speaker 1: m RNA, the rare you know, genetic diseases, that's still
Speaker 1: kind of wild card. It's really hard to know how
Speaker 1: long that's going to take the play out. But what
Speaker 1: I would say is that infectious disease viral vaccines, that's
Speaker 1: the one thing that has proof of principle right now,
Speaker 1: and the other areas they still need to prove it.
Speaker 1: Many things to doctor Drew Weissman, as well as Bloomberg's
Speaker 1: own Riley Griffin and Robert Langrith. You can find Riley's
Speaker 1: full piece of out Fiser's next act over at Bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot com. Thanks for listening to us here at The
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