WEBVTT - Melissa Etheridge 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:13.880 Welcome, Welcome, brolcome back to Bob Left Podcast. My guest today, 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:18.279 You've but one and only Melissa Et Melissa, you have 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:23.160 Ethridge Island coming up on Labor Day. What's that all about? Uh? 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:28.400 This is sort of a little dream come true, you know. Um, 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:32.680 you know, as as I have gone through this music business, 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:39.400 I have seen, uh it changed how you connect with 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:43.879 your fans. Used to be through radio and uh, you know, 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:49.640 record companies, and now I have a direct connection with 0:00:49.840 --> 0:00:53.880 my fan base. And for the last about five years, 0:00:53.960 --> 0:00:58.600 I've done about four cruises, at which I said I'd 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:02.040 never do. But when I can be so connected with 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:03.960 my fans, I can let them know, hey, going on 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.679 a cruise to my super duper fans will join me 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:10.160 on that. And I used to joke with them someday 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:12.160 I'm gonna get an island and we're all gonna go away, 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:14.160 leave this crazy world and we're just gonna, you know, 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:17.880 play music. And so the people that the production company 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:21.559 sixth Man that I did my uh cruises with, said, 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:23.800 you know what, we can actually get an island that 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.119 has a resort on it. It's off it's off of Cancun, 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:31.800 and it's a dreams and secrets. Uh, resort there. And 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:34.640 so now I have Ethridge Island and it's a festival 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:38.560 and it's uh, it's music. It's myself and Annie DiFranco 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.360 and l King and Larkin Poe and some great great artists. 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:46.720 Everyone's welcome. Uh. You can go to Ethridge Island dot com. 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.080 Check it out right now, get a room, go here. Music. 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.040 There's a lot of wellness, you know, yoga, food and 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.000 all kinds of stuff going on too. But it's just 0:01:55.440 --> 0:02:01.280 super serving my fans and people that really love music. Okay, 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:05.880 what's the capacity for the event? Well, there's eight hundred rooms, 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:10.080 so that's uh. I'd say it's about two thousand people 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:14.160 are so two thousand give or take. So how many 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:19.200 hardcore Melissa Ethridge fans are there? Ah, there's thousands of 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:22.520 hardcore and they're all over the world. You know, we've 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:26.480 done I've done things with about four thousand people or so, 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:30.240 and uh, you know, I'd say, let's say right about 0:02:30.280 --> 0:02:32.959 that those that there's some that I've known for years, 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.240 you know, the really hardcore ones that come to see 0:02:35.320 --> 0:02:37.639 hundreds and hundreds of shows. You get to know them, 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:40.000 you get to know their children and you know, so 0:02:40.240 --> 0:02:43.960 I have some really really big fans. So talking about 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:47.360 the change in the business and the technological changes, you 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:50.040 can literally have access to your fans. How do you 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.560 do this? Do you have an email list? Is it 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.080 more on social media? How do you get the message 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:59.679 out different ways? I? UM, I was fortunate enough back 0:02:59.680 --> 0:03:05.720 in I had one of the first artist websites that 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.880 that was made. I was approached by a company at 0:03:08.880 --> 0:03:12.720 the time, fan fan Asylum was the name, and and 0:03:12.720 --> 0:03:15.000 and this is you know, the internet wasn't he was 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.640 just barely getting started and they said, we'd love to 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:20.079 make a fan club. And I was like, fan club, 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:21.640 you know, this is rock and roll. What are you 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:24.760 talking about? But I said, okay, fine it it. What's 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:28.320 it gonna hurt? And they built and and a mask, 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:32.880 you know, email, email addresses and and a way to 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.760 connect with people. And it became one of the number 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.720 one fan sites on the Internet for a long time. 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.760 And you know, since then, we have kept that email list. 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:48.960 And I myself, UM, I have lots of social media outlets. 0:03:49.000 --> 0:03:51.360 I have people that run that, but I myself run 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.920 my Twitter. I like to know that there's one place 0:03:54.960 --> 0:04:00.120 that they know it's actually me responding, reading and and 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:03.560 right there with him. I I don't I don't do Facebook, Instagram, 0:04:03.600 --> 0:04:07.200 but I'm on those through my management. They run that 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:09.920 and keep that going and inform people. But if you 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:13.160 want to really hear what I have to say about something, 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:19.520 it's on Twitter. So you're one of the early technological 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:25.000 adopters from an out facing way, like having a website. 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.520 Are you personally very into technology or you someone who 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:34.480 served the web and it's infancy, well, because I, um, 0:04:34.560 --> 0:04:36.719 actually I did. Yeah, in the nineties. I was very 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:40.520 interested because I could for the first time, I could 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:46.320 actually get instant feedback from real people, you know, before 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:50.320 the Internet. I would go do a show and the 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.719 only review I saw was the guy that was, you 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.359 know as signed to cover my show that night, and 0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:59.560 who knows if he even stayed for the whole concert, 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.560 you know, And I do this great show, and sometimes 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:06.000 I'd get these really weird reviews from you know, one person, 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.360 or or reviews on an album. You get one person 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:11.960 listening to the album. That's the only feedback I used 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.200 to get, except for when I'd be in concert and 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:18.240 see the people and then I have this other reaction, 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:21.480 you know, live and then I'd leave in four days 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.000 later I could read a review and I was like, 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:25.400 oh my god, what was the guy at the same 0:05:25.480 --> 0:05:30.840 show as I was? So it was so refreshing too 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.640 in the nineties to go on a O L to 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:39.400 go on the fan the Melissa Ethridge, you know board, 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:43.120 and actually see what people were saying. It was the 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:47.160 first time I got to see kind of instantly how 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.359 people felt about my music as someone with a profile, 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:54.520 pretty high profile and experience, you know, a couple of things. 0:05:54.640 --> 0:05:59.960 One for nine positives, there's always somebody negative and then 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:04.960 negative person is twisting the knife. So how do you 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:08.480 cope with the negative? And to what degree do you 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:11.880 change your behave You're based on this feedback not only 0:06:11.920 --> 0:06:17.280 the negative, positive too. Oh I, um, well, I went 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:21.440 through my own personal kind of transformation. I had cancer 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.120 eighteen years ago, cancer free for eighteen years now, and 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:28.839 um having gone through that, I realized I had to 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.599 let go of really what other people thought about me, 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.960 because that would make me crazy. And the more that 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.880 I have seen social media come up and again this 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:43.960 instant response to something, and when I went on social 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:46.920 when I went on Twitter, you know, ten years ago 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:52.239 or whatever, I realized right away, oh, you're gonna get unfiltered. 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:58.320 You know, response is positive and negative. And whereas before 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.279 cancer I would let the negative get to me, I 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:07.560 would uh, I would, you know, really just think I 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:09.800 would let all the positive go by, but boy, that 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.000 one negative person I would focus on that and it 0:07:12.040 --> 0:07:14.920 would make me crazy. And it's just a really sad 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.280 way to kind of do your work when one negative 0:07:18.320 --> 0:07:20.880 thing can mess you up. And I realized I needed 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:25.040 to focus on on what I love. I needed to 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:27.440 make sure that the music I was making, the performing 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:31.400 I was doing made me happy. And as long as 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:35.160 I had that, as long as I could get out 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:41.320 there do my best. I knew that whatever anyone else 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:46.360 was experiencing was their experience going through their filter. Maybe 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.640 they had a bad day, maybe they're having a bad 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.600 year or life, you know, and that's their filter. And 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:57.040 if they if they don't, you know, feel the love 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:01.600 and the you know, the creativity and what I put 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.400 into it. If if it's not for them, then so 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.120 be it. And what other people think about me is 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:11.760 really none of my business. I really need to make 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:18.720 the music, make the the creativity that I love. It's 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:23.640 very difficult as an artist in the commercial space to 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.040 totally divorce oneself from the audience. So it's just like 0:08:28.120 --> 0:08:31.960 playing live, you know what works. But let's say there's 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:35.000 a direction you want to go in or a song 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.880 you want to play and it's either not resonating or 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:44.160 you're getting negative feedback online. Would that inhibit you from 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:46.160 playing it? Would you stop playing? Or would you say 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.840 this is what I want to do? Oh? I would 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.120 if I if I had a lot of feedback, if 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:56.640 if maybe if I saw people that were normally uh, 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.320 you know, flowing with the work that I was doing 0:09:00.240 --> 0:09:03.199 having a very negative response to it, then I would 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.480 I would think, Wow, what what did I overlook on this? 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:11.880 What what am I not seeing? That is is you know, 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:16.160 people are misinterpreting And I would go back and check 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:20.760 and see and and really kind of, uh, look at that. 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:22.880 I what if it was more. But if it's just 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:25.520 a handful of people that I can tell are are 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:29.240 just kind of miserable in nature and they're there are 0:09:29.240 --> 0:09:32.520 people that kind of just want to go around stomping things. 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.240 If it's if it's that, I really let that be. 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.440 I don't mess with that energy. I believe that you know, 0:09:37.800 --> 0:09:41.000 whatever you pay attention to you get. So I I 0:09:41.080 --> 0:09:44.480 really try to try to look at you know, keep 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:49.040 my my gaze and my attention going towards you know, positive, 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.760 good feeling things. But if I were to see a 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:55.839 massive amount of not feeling things, I would have to 0:09:55.840 --> 0:09:57.520 I would have to look at myself and go, Wow, 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:59.760 what am I putting out that I that I don't 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:03.800 see here? Let's go back to Twitter. How often do 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:10.800 you post on Twitter? And what kind of stuff? Oh? Wow? Um, 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.720 I it can be up to one or two times 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:19.360 a day. And then lately, I, you know, I kinda 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:22.280 I kind of had to take a break off of 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:26.120 Twitter because you know, my own Twitter is fine. I can, 0:10:26.440 --> 0:10:29.240 you know, post something and then read what people say. 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.560 But boy, once I go into my feed and all 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:33.880 of a sudden I start reading the news and everything, 0:10:33.960 --> 0:10:38.560 I just go down into a doom scroll hole, and uh, 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.199 I need to give myself a break on that every 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.480 now and then. So, um, I would say I at 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:49.960 least post once a week. Um, during football NFL football season, 0:10:50.360 --> 0:10:52.560 I'll post a lot because I'm a big Kansas City 0:10:52.600 --> 0:10:56.640 Chiefs fan and my uh my, my fans know that, 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.600 and so I have a whole section of of Kansas 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:02.960 City chi fans that follow me that that might not 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.120 be as familiar with my music, but they know that 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:09.000 we are, you know, in in the in the fandom 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.319 together in the arrowhead, you know. So I'm a big 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.400 fan of that. So I'll post about that. I'll post 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:20.520 about shows I'm doing. Every night, after a show, I'll 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.320 take what we call a melfie and it's just a 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:27.280 little like twenty video of me and the audience, so 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.440 that if you were at the show, you could have 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.800 a little thing. It's like a selfie with me and 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.959 the audience at every show. So I'll do that every 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:38.600 after every show. But you know, on the road, I'll 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.800 tweet once a day. I guess, how about a filter? 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.920 You know, they're different philosophies about how much to reveal 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:49.560 about your personal life. Do you feel everything's up for 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:53.000 grabs or do you have a wall? Well, I have 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:59.120 lived my life in such a way since the nineties 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.640 that I was very open about my personal life. I 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.200 felt that there's power in that that if I had 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:10.320 if I had kept uh, you know, silent and hidden 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:15.480 about my sexuality or or anything, and you know, they 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:17.840 come and find you. They they that sort of thing 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.559 you start worrying about it. So I said, look, I'm 0:12:21.559 --> 0:12:25.679 just gonna be honest about myself about everything, so the 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:28.160 good and the bad. You know, every time I had 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.240 a breakup, it was public, and you know those aren't 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.640 very much fun. And and then when my son died 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:37.040 a couple of years ago, that was no fun when 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.320 that went public because it was you know, it was 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:43.120 opioid addiction. And you know, there's so much judgment or not. 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:47.640 But again, it is my job as as my own 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:52.240 human as a human being, I need to take care 0:12:52.280 --> 0:12:55.560 of my inner self. I need to know that people. 0:12:56.040 --> 0:12:59.160 I will never be able to get people to you know, 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.520 see my way or or you know that they're always 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.800 going to have their own opinions and they are welcome 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.600 to them. I just don't have to give my attention 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.920 or my gaze to that. I can keep it on 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:14.320 what I know and my loved ones, who are you know, 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:20.480 connected to me. So going back to the chiefs, was 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:28.680 Shottenheimer just a loser? Or or as Mahomes just that good? Oh, 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:32.720 you know, we've had coaches, We've I've see I was 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.680 born and raised in Leavenworth, Kansas. So my father was 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:40.240 a huge Kansas City Chiefs fan. I remember the first time, well, 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.720 no that the first time we won the Super Bowl. 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:45.600 The second time we were in the super Bowl. But um, 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:49.120 you know, nine seventy I remember that game, Lenny Dawson 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:54.800 and everybody, and then um, then fifty years went by, 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:58.400 fifty and I know them. They were my years when 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.120 you know, you every year would see we we will 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:05.240 get close. And for the last you know, decade, we 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:07.680 we would get close. We would have some bad season, 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:10.640 but we would get really close. And then, man, once 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:14.640 Andy Reid came, he made a big difference in coaching, 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:20.360 absolutely makes a difference. And and the the the you know, 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:23.920 the culture in that locker room. And you could just 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:28.240 see the team changing when Andy came and put his 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.240 coaches together and it was a you could feel, you know. 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:34.600 And we went through Andy, we went through uh Alex Smith, 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:39.640 and boy, once we got Patrick Mahomes, things just quickly 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:43.520 changed and you realized what what one player can do 0:14:43.640 --> 0:14:47.080 with it in that position to reach the other talent 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:49.000 that we You've got me talking football, man, I can 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:53.000 talk this all all day. Okay. Do you know the 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:59.160 Chiefs personally? I do not. I I have hugged Andy 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:02.760 Reid numerous times because every time I sing the national anthem, 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:05.880 which I love to do, which has been about three 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:09.080 times now. Um, he's always right in front of me 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:10.960 when I sing. They've got me up on a pedalt 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:15.200 you know this, uh Riser. I'm singing to the crowd 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.440 of sixty people, but the team and Andy Reid is 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.320 right in front of me. Now, I don't dare look 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:23.680 any team member in the eye because you know they're 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.880 concentrating on the game. But Andy Reid always came over 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.440 and gave me a big hug. And I know his wife, 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:34.520 So that's that's as close as I've gotten. Do you 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:36.840 have season tickets or you just know when you want 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.200 to go you can get a ticket. Yeah, well I 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.040 live in Los Angeles, so I don't have season tickets 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:46.120 to Arrowhead. I Um, whenever I am playing or in 0:15:46.160 --> 0:15:49.200 the area and there's a game, I know who to 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.040 call it ask for tickets. But there they also play 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:54.680 the Chargers, you know, twice a year and once here 0:15:54.720 --> 0:15:56.760 in l A. So now I can go to Sophie. 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:59.960 I haven't been there yet because of COVID. We didn't 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:02.760 we couldn't go. But this year I'm going I'm going 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:07.280 to be there. Okay, are you basically a fan? Now? 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.040 Of course we're all older at this point, you and myself, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.200 um or you were? You? Were you very athletic as 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:20.040 a child. Oh? Uh, My father was very athletic. He 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:23.080 he loved uh. He was a basketball coach actually for 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:25.480 the high school, for the high school team, and he 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:28.480 took him to state in the sixties and early seventies. 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:33.280 He was beloved coach Ethridge. He he taught the swimming. 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.280 He he played softball. He taught me how to play softball. 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:38.680 I learned. I'm a good lesbian. I learned how to 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:43.360 play softball. I loved it. It was fantastic. Um basketball, 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.520 I could, I could do a jump shot really great. 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.840 But I wasn't big at running, so I wasn't I 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:55.040 wasn't terribly athletic. And I certainly enjoyed music more than 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.400 I did the the sports. And so when it came 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:00.520 to high school, I had to choose. We couldn't do 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.520 both because you couldn't do all those electives, and I 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:07.440 definitely chose music. So the sports kind of went, you know, away, 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.240 and so I became an observer of sports instead of 0:17:10.240 --> 0:17:15.800 a participant. Unfortunately, you know your son passed, but he 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:19.280 was trying to be a professional snowboarder. Was that a 0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:23.800 family activity or that was just something he did by himself. Well, 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.600 when he was younger, I I was. I used to 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:31.000 ski a lot, and UM I would take him up 0:17:31.160 --> 0:17:35.240 and he loved snowboarding so much when he was very young, 0:17:35.359 --> 0:17:38.000 ten eleven years old, and I would take him up 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.439 as much as I could. And then UM, as a 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:44.600 young teenager, he started going on his own. And then 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:49.679 when he was about seventeen, he uh, well, before then, 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:52.440 he would go to like camps where he met these 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:56.480 professional people and they invited him to come to Aspen 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.479 and train, and he did for one season and then 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:03.320 they invited to come back and maybe UM sort of 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:05.879 start to be with the team when he was about seventeen, 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:10.720 and that's when he heard his ankle really bad. How 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:16.600 does one cope with the passing of a child. I 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:21.400 don't know the best that one can just it. There 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:25.600 is not even a word for it. You know, you 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:29.520 have the word for losing your your partner, your your 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:32.840 widow or or you know a widow or you know 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.680 or or or when you lose your parents you're an orphan. 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:39.440 But when you're a parent that loses a child, there's 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.800 not even a word for it in in the language. 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:48.000 So um, it is so not supposed to be your 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:54.520 your You're not supposed to outlive your children. And um, 0:18:54.600 --> 0:19:00.399 you know the the when when you weigh up and 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.240 you know that someone who you've seen come into the 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:07.440 world and live for a couple of decades, when they're 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:13.520 not you know, when they're not around anymore, it's not right. 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:20.600 It doesn't feel right, and so every day you just well. 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:22.720 The way that I coped with it, I don't you know, 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.040 everyone has their own way. But the way I coped 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:28.440 with it was to understand that he he is not 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:34.320 gone forever and ever his that that spirit which he was, 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:40.840 that that light that he was beyond all his addictions 0:19:40.880 --> 0:19:46.199 and troubles. Um, that light is is still alive and 0:19:46.240 --> 0:19:50.119 it has always been in existence that spirit and I 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:53.280 and my deep my own spiritual beliefs are one of 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:56.120 you know, we are here in the physical, and then 0:19:56.160 --> 0:20:01.040 there is a a place that is the non physical, 0:20:01.320 --> 0:20:05.480 where all that spirit lives. So I I do, I 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.440 believe that I will and still am in some way 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:14.280 spiritually connected and that helps me. That is a that's 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:26.800 a comfort to me. Your sister, uh, if you go online, 0:20:26.920 --> 0:20:29.520 went to Columbia, what is she up to? I know 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:33.600 a story of my own life identical to this. There 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:37.440 were twins though, and one o deed and one is 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:41.600 a very successful medical doctor of the same vintage as 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:46.960 your children. So what is your daughter up to? And 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:50.440 how does she cope? If you know? With the passing, 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.719 it was very very hard on my daughter. They were close. 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:57.880 They they used to be considered twins because they look 0:20:57.960 --> 0:20:59.800 so much alike, and they're they're only about a year 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:03.080 and a half apart, and so they were very close. 0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.280 And it's very very hard. And I can't speak for her, 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:10.560 but I do know that, you know, there's a there's 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:13.840 a painful part in her heart and and she she 0:21:14.920 --> 0:21:17.720 you know, deals with that on her own and and 0:21:17.520 --> 0:21:20.760 and and with us together, we as a family have 0:21:20.880 --> 0:21:23.840 agreed that that we're not going when we talk about him, 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.040 we're not going to be sad. We're going to remember, 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:31.200 you know, lovingly the fun things. You know, and I 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.800 have whether children their fame now they'll be sixteen soon, 0:21:35.320 --> 0:21:39.800 they are twins, and um, you know they we we 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.560 talked about him, and oh, well, Beckett, we would have 0:21:42.600 --> 0:21:44.240 done this or oh Beckett used to do this, and 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:46.840 we tell stories and and it's very loving. And when 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:50.119 we do that, we feel he's close to us. Um, 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:51.919 you know, my daughter, I just I just love her 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:55.760 as much as I can. And yet you I certainly 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:59.320 have learned that when when you hear someone in a 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:05.399 family as has addiction issues, uh, or you know, forbid 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:10.119 they they have lost someone to an opioid addiction, you know, 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:15.159 I no longer look to blame anyone it is. It 0:22:15.280 --> 0:22:19.439 is a personal issue. Families deal with us all the time. 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:24.520 You know, Bailey grew up under the same roof, and 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:28.560 she is highly successful. Uh not only did she graduate Columbia, 0:22:28.560 --> 0:22:31.040 but she got her masters at the London School of Economics. 0:22:31.080 --> 0:22:33.879 And and she's just you know, she's just my delight. 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:38.560 And and you know, people make different choices. Beckett made 0:22:39.320 --> 0:22:43.040 a different choice and and um, you know, he left 0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.679 us way too early. So we as a family, we 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:48.679 hold him, We love him, we remembered, we cherish our 0:22:48.720 --> 0:22:52.480 memories with him, and uh, you know, we keep him close. 0:22:53.840 --> 0:22:58.800 So you had two children with one partner and two 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.800 children with another a partner and ultimately broke up with 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:06.880 both partners. How did you manage the children and being 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:13.200 closed and who had custody and all kinds of things. Ah, well, 0:23:13.240 --> 0:23:20.320 the uh, the first one, the first two that was 0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:25.720 a little more well, okay, I don't really want to 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:29.520 go into details on it because it's so it's so 0:23:30.320 --> 0:23:37.360 cretty kind of and um the what I always had 0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:42.440 fifty custody that it was always I definitely wanted to say, look, 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:46.359 these are these are my kids also, and you know, 0:23:46.400 --> 0:23:49.120 even though I'm not blood related to them, I am 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:53.040 their mother, And every single one of them would would 0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:56.520 look at you funny if if if somehow you said 0:23:56.600 --> 0:24:00.159 I wasn't there, like, oh no, she is. And know 0:24:00.880 --> 0:24:05.280 I I shared custody. The too older I actually ended 0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:09.840 up having more custody for many different reasons. They actually 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:14.040 ended up staying at my house more. The two younger ones, 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:17.399 I get along with their mother a little better. And 0:24:17.600 --> 0:24:19.840 I kind of learned from the first one that that 0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:23.720 any conflict you have, any sort of pulling and tugging 0:24:23.800 --> 0:24:28.600 and and trying to prove something, only hurts the children. 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:31.439 I really saw that, I really saw how hard it 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:35.280 was on the children. So the second time and I 0:24:35.320 --> 0:24:37.879 didn't expect to go through it, but I did. The 0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:41.560 second time. I was like, Okay, now I'm gonna this 0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:43.520 is gonna be a lot easier. I'm going to be 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:47.920 I'm not gonna push against things. I know that children 0:24:49.040 --> 0:24:52.000 they go where it's warm, you know, I'm just gonna 0:24:52.040 --> 0:24:55.800 love them. I'm gonna do the best I can. And um, 0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:59.439 I really believe that the less conflict they have in 0:24:59.480 --> 0:25:02.359 their life, the better it is for them. And it 0:25:02.520 --> 0:25:05.600 has it has proven out there two delightful children and 0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:09.560 they're almost sixteen, and you know, they're they're becoming young adults, 0:25:09.600 --> 0:25:16.600 and I'm just very pleased. Now, did you ever consider 0:25:16.720 --> 0:25:22.560 or why did you not have biological children yourself? Oh? Um, 0:25:22.640 --> 0:25:27.400 First of all, I uh, I when I was hunger, 0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:30.800 you know, in the seventies, late seventies, early eighties, when 0:25:30.840 --> 0:25:33.880 you decided, not decided, when you realized you were gay, 0:25:35.040 --> 0:25:37.119 it meant you weren't going to have kids. That was 0:25:37.200 --> 0:25:40.520 part of the deal of being gay, and that was 0:25:40.560 --> 0:25:42.240 part of the things that mothers would cry and go, 0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:44.480 I'm not going to have grandchildren, you know, stuff like that. 0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:49.520 And so as the eighties went on, we realized that 0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:53.000 well as women, we could still have children, you know, 0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:54.840 we can make this work and and and a lot 0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:58.720 of people started doing that, and so um when my 0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:03.840 partner at the time then I discussed children she wanted 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:06.200 to carry, and I was fine with that because I 0:26:07.400 --> 0:26:11.000 never really had that urge. And then later when I 0:26:11.080 --> 0:26:14.880 was thirty five six, I started having um uh uter 0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:17.760 insists and things like that. So I actually ended up 0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:22.159 having a hysterectomy at my late thirties, so I couldn't 0:26:22.160 --> 0:26:24.040 have to I wouldn't have been able to have children anyway. 0:26:24.080 --> 0:26:27.120 But you know, and it didn't bother me at all. 0:26:27.160 --> 0:26:29.679 Believe me. I was there when they came into this 0:26:29.760 --> 0:26:34.879 world and I saw it, and I've never felt not connected, 0:26:35.200 --> 0:26:38.879 you know, biologically to my children at all. Okay, so 0:26:38.920 --> 0:26:40.919 how did you cope with COVID? I know you did 0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:44.480 a lot of live shows on the internet. You know, 0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:51.920 what was it like for you? Ah? I remember when 0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:55.760 everyone started talking about it, and my first couple of 0:26:55.800 --> 0:26:58.320 gigs started to get canceled because we were going out 0:26:58.440 --> 0:27:01.840 at the end of March of twenty and we were 0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:03.879 gonna tour all summer and we were gonna go to Europe, 0:27:03.880 --> 0:27:07.000 and it was everything was planned and and the first 0:27:07.080 --> 0:27:09.679 few dates started being canceled and I said, oh, okay, 0:27:09.720 --> 0:27:12.480 well this is only gonna be a couple of weeks. 0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:17.200 You know, I had no idea of what it would be. 0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:22.520 And when I realized after well actually after a few 0:27:22.600 --> 0:27:26.080 days when they started canceling them, I I went on 0:27:26.119 --> 0:27:28.399 my Facebook because everyone seemed to be kind of it 0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:31.840 was really scary what was happening, like real things shutting 0:27:31.880 --> 0:27:34.600 down and people not being able to meet and and 0:27:34.680 --> 0:27:36.480 so I said, you know what, I'm gonna go on Facebook, 0:27:36.760 --> 0:27:41.479 on my little Facebook page, and you know, for I'm 0:27:41.520 --> 0:27:43.960 gonna sing a song or two. I'm just going to 0:27:44.040 --> 0:27:46.800 connect with my fans every day until this is over, 0:27:46.920 --> 0:27:49.800 you know. And so I started doing it, and you know, 0:27:49.840 --> 0:27:53.320 after a couple of weeks, I started realizing, wow, we're 0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:58.719 in this, and so I I actually went every single 0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:04.119 day at three o'clock on Pacific time. I went online 0:28:04.160 --> 0:28:08.040 for fifty eight days in a row. And then that's 0:28:08.040 --> 0:28:12.400 when my son died, and so I I stopped and 0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:17.680 for about four weeks, we mourned, We we UH got 0:28:17.720 --> 0:28:20.919 that together. But I came out here. Actually I'm in 0:28:21.040 --> 0:28:28.719 my UH garage studio, which then I took my my sadness, 0:28:28.800 --> 0:28:31.800 my grief and my oh my gosh, what am I 0:28:31.800 --> 0:28:34.600 gonna do now? My son's died and I can't go anywhere, 0:28:34.640 --> 0:28:39.040 I can't go perform, you know, and make myself feel better. UM. 0:28:39.120 --> 0:28:44.400 So I cleaned out this part of my garage and 0:28:44.480 --> 0:28:49.920 made a studio and sound proofd it, and um, I 0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:56.160 learned everything about streaming, about cameras, about sound I started 0:28:56.160 --> 0:29:01.360 doing my own guitar teching and I built this studio, 0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:04.680 which as I was doing and I was realizing I 0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:07.120 was kind of doing what nobody else had done before 0:29:07.160 --> 0:29:11.200 because we didn't Streaming was kind of a not a 0:29:11.280 --> 0:29:13.720 thing that many people did. They would do it every 0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:15.480 now and then, but it wasn't a real thing. And 0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:18.640 now with COVID it was becoming huge. So I ended 0:29:18.680 --> 0:29:23.600 up having steven cameras and uh, you know professional soundboard 0:29:23.600 --> 0:29:26.240 that I hooked up that my sound man in Florida. 0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:28.920 We we figured a way to have him run the 0:29:28.960 --> 0:29:32.840 sound connect through the internet, him run the sound in Florida, 0:29:33.280 --> 0:29:36.239 and we presented a thing we called Ethridge TV and 0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:39.880 we did it five five days a week. It kept 0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:43.080 me and my wife saying I would do Tuesday's were 0:29:43.400 --> 0:29:45.920 cover days, and so I would learn like four or 0:29:45.920 --> 0:29:48.920 five cover songs that that I hadn't been singing other 0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:53.880 people's material for decades, and it was really enjoyable and 0:29:55.000 --> 0:29:58.520 I connected with the fans. I now have this, you know, 0:29:58.600 --> 0:30:02.920 two years of content now of me singing all kinds 0:30:02.960 --> 0:30:05.040 of stuff and and doing stuff with my wife, and 0:30:05.480 --> 0:30:09.680 it just it kept our creativity going, It kept me saying, 0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:13.200 it kept me connected, it got me through grief. It 0:30:13.240 --> 0:30:16.840 was just it was actually a really great experience. And 0:30:16.920 --> 0:30:21.520 what about monetization, Well, yeah, then there was that because 0:30:21.920 --> 0:30:24.760 because I did realize that after those fifty eight days, 0:30:24.800 --> 0:30:27.360 I went, oh my god, I'm not working this year, 0:30:27.840 --> 0:30:30.800 and touring is my bread and butter. Touring pays the bills, 0:30:31.960 --> 0:30:33.600 and I thought, oh my, how am I going to 0:30:33.680 --> 0:30:37.160 pay the bills? And so we Ethirds TV. We ended 0:30:37.240 --> 0:30:40.400 up charging a subscription and for fifty dollars a month, 0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:44.920 you've got five shows a week, and people were willing 0:30:44.960 --> 0:30:47.440 to do that, and so we actually were able to 0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:49.400 pay the bills for a year and a half off 0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:54.160 of that. How many people subscribe over a thousand, you know, 0:30:54.280 --> 0:30:57.440 So yeah, let's go back to the beginning. How did 0:30:57.480 --> 0:31:02.120 your family end up in Leavenworth. My father was born 0:31:02.320 --> 0:31:06.920 in St. Louis, Missouri too, you know, migrant farmers, very 0:31:07.040 --> 0:31:11.200 very poor. He was just you know, poverty. He came 0:31:11.200 --> 0:31:16.320 from there. Uh. My mother came from Arkansas, where she 0:31:16.360 --> 0:31:22.080 grew up, you know, not as poor. Her father was 0:31:22.120 --> 0:31:26.240 an insurance salesman, so she kind of was. And she 0:31:26.440 --> 0:31:30.400 ended up going to college at Henderson University in Arkansas. 0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:33.120 And my father got a scholarship because he was athletic, 0:31:33.760 --> 0:31:36.440 and someone in his high school helped him to understand 0:31:36.440 --> 0:31:39.520 that he could go to college on an athletic scholarship. 0:31:39.600 --> 0:31:42.800 So he goes there, they meet, he gets a job 0:31:43.240 --> 0:31:47.080 coaching in Leavenworth, Kansas, And so I have no other 0:31:47.120 --> 0:31:51.040 family in Leavenworth, but they ended up, you know, settling 0:31:51.040 --> 0:31:53.000 down in leveryone because he could get a job there. 0:31:54.240 --> 0:31:57.720 I've been to Ksey many times, and I've certainly been 0:31:57.760 --> 0:32:01.080 to Lawrence. I've never been to Leavenworth. But all anybody 0:32:01.120 --> 0:32:04.520 knows about Leavenworth is the prison. Yeah, that's something. Is 0:32:04.560 --> 0:32:06.760 that something if you live there that you don't even 0:32:06.800 --> 0:32:09.560 think about or is that you know, impact the whole town? 0:32:10.160 --> 0:32:12.760 You don't think about it because that prison. The Federal 0:32:12.840 --> 0:32:17.440 Penitentiary is huge, and it was about two blocks from 0:32:17.440 --> 0:32:19.760 my house and I used to ride my bike by 0:32:19.800 --> 0:32:21.880 it all the time, and I just that's just the prison, 0:32:21.920 --> 0:32:24.040 and everybody has a prison in their town. I thought, 0:32:24.080 --> 0:32:26.480 you know, it was just it was totally normal. But 0:32:26.600 --> 0:32:29.719 as i um, as I grew, I actually was a 0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:33.360 part of a little talent show that became a variety 0:32:33.400 --> 0:32:37.120 show and we would go and perform at the prisons. 0:32:37.640 --> 0:32:39.760 So I realized that not only do we have the 0:32:39.800 --> 0:32:44.000 Federal penitentiary there, we have the Army penitentiary, the Fort 0:32:44.520 --> 0:32:48.560 Leavenworth has an Army penitentiary there. We have the U 0:32:49.320 --> 0:32:52.640 in the little town right next to us Lansing. We 0:32:52.720 --> 0:32:57.920 have the Kansas State Men's Prison, and then the women's 0:32:57.920 --> 0:33:00.120 penitentiary used to be there. It's in Topeka now, but 0:33:00.160 --> 0:33:02.520 it used to be there. So I would go around 0:33:02.520 --> 0:33:05.200 and I would perform in all of these prisons. And 0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:09.400 we're actually looking to um to create a little documentary 0:33:09.400 --> 0:33:11.840 and having me go back and performing in the women's 0:33:11.840 --> 0:33:16.080 penitentiary there. But yeah, it's everybody's family, you know. They 0:33:16.120 --> 0:33:19.840 had their fathers were guards or something at the penitentiary. 0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:21.840 Every now and then you'd hear about a break out. 0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:26.040 You know, one of my friends actually was picked up 0:33:26.040 --> 0:33:28.360 a hitchhiker, which you're not supposed to do around my town, 0:33:28.800 --> 0:33:31.960 and and he had escaped and he kind of kidnapped 0:33:32.000 --> 0:33:34.800 and forced him to drive him to Nebraska. But he 0:33:34.840 --> 0:33:38.160 was fine, you know. So so when you went to 0:33:38.240 --> 0:33:42.600 the prisons, what age were you and were you anxious scared? 0:33:43.320 --> 0:33:45.640 I was not at all. I was I was about 0:33:47.400 --> 0:33:52.480 I'd say. And I gotta tell you, the audience was amazing. 0:33:52.600 --> 0:33:55.360 I mean, talk about a captive audience, right, But they 0:33:55.400 --> 0:33:59.960 were so thrilled to just be entertained that they were 0:34:00.000 --> 0:34:02.040 hooting and hollering. Of course, I was thirteen and a 0:34:02.120 --> 0:34:04.080 young girl or whatever. I didn't I didn't take it 0:34:04.160 --> 0:34:06.720 as that. I just took it as this was a 0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:10.480 whole lot of energy that was really loved, that was 0:34:10.560 --> 0:34:16.400 loving being entertained. So how far is Leavenworth from Kansas City. 0:34:16.800 --> 0:34:19.479 It's about well, I just knew it's about a forty 0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:22.160 five minute drive, maybe an hour. It's it's right up 0:34:22.160 --> 0:34:25.880 there on the bight of Kansas and Missouri. The Missouri 0:34:25.960 --> 0:34:28.880 River is part of Leavenworth, and and you crossed the 0:34:28.920 --> 0:34:33.280 Missouri River and you're in Missouri, and how often growing 0:34:33.360 --> 0:34:37.080 up there as a teenager would you go to Kansas City? Um? 0:34:37.120 --> 0:34:41.040 I I played in bands as a teenager, and I 0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:43.520 would work in Kansas City a lot. I would work 0:34:43.680 --> 0:34:47.120 in the Ramada in or the you know, I would 0:34:47.200 --> 0:34:50.840 play the ski club dances, and so I would go 0:34:50.960 --> 0:34:54.960 there once a week, I guess. Okay, So how many 0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:58.120 kids in the family. I have one sister, one older sister. 0:34:59.200 --> 0:35:02.480 And how many years between the two of you? We 0:35:02.480 --> 0:35:05.200 were exactly four years apart. We were born on the 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:09.120 same day, but four years apart, okay, and so four 0:35:09.200 --> 0:35:11.359 years is a lot when you were a kid. So 0:35:11.440 --> 0:35:15.200 what was your relationship with your sister growing up? Well, 0:35:15.280 --> 0:35:17.880 it was not a good relationship. She was troubled also, 0:35:18.480 --> 0:35:22.759 Um and uh, we were not close at all. But 0:35:23.239 --> 0:35:27.359 she used to listen to the coolest music. She had 0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:31.240 Led Zeppelin, she had Humble Pie, she had Rolling Stones, 0:35:31.360 --> 0:35:34.359 Exile on Main Street. You know, she had all these 0:35:34.400 --> 0:35:37.680 great records that me, as a eleven year old, didn't 0:35:37.760 --> 0:35:39.520 quite you know, I wouldn't not to find it, but 0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:42.040 I would listen to them, go whoa, this is amazing, 0:35:42.880 --> 0:35:48.359 and so hearing those and then my parents music was 0:35:48.480 --> 0:35:51.440 you know Mom's and the Papas and Neil Diamond and 0:35:51.480 --> 0:35:54.600 Aretha Franklin. So I got this really great mix of 0:35:54.680 --> 0:35:57.200 music in the house and then the radio. So even 0:35:57.200 --> 0:36:01.400 though I wasn't close to my sister, her music really 0:36:01.440 --> 0:36:05.280 influenced me, the music that she listened to. You reference 0:36:05.320 --> 0:36:08.359 her as troubled and refer to yourself as trouble. What 0:36:08.400 --> 0:36:14.160 does that mean troubled? Troubled? Well, she um, I was. 0:36:14.239 --> 0:36:16.360 I wouldn't say I was troubled. I was actually was 0:36:16.400 --> 0:36:18.000 a very good child. I didn't mean to say that 0:36:18.040 --> 0:36:22.200 I was troubled. Um, I was only troubled in that. Uh. 0:36:22.400 --> 0:36:25.359 I just wanted to get away from that small town. 0:36:25.560 --> 0:36:27.279 I had a big dream of you know, fame and 0:36:27.360 --> 0:36:30.440 fortune and I could be a rock star. Somehow. She 0:36:30.680 --> 0:36:34.000 was troubled in that, Um. You know there it was drugs, 0:36:34.040 --> 0:36:37.040 it was I think she had an abortion when she 0:36:37.120 --> 0:36:40.480 was sixteen. It was you know, she constantly fought with 0:36:40.520 --> 0:36:42.960 my parents, she dropped out of high school. You know, 0:36:43.040 --> 0:36:45.640 she's still having a hard time. So it's just it's 0:36:45.640 --> 0:36:49.160 just just that kind of you know, choices that were made, 0:36:49.800 --> 0:36:54.040 and what's your relationship with her now? Not much? I 0:36:54.239 --> 0:37:00.880 um uh, I know her daughter more. I her she 0:37:00.960 --> 0:37:04.160 had two children, her her oldest son also died of 0:37:04.239 --> 0:37:08.920 a overdose. I know, it's it's everywhere and um and 0:37:09.120 --> 0:37:13.799 but her youngest was really amazing and it helps a lot. 0:37:13.960 --> 0:37:17.440 And so I I connected with her and through her, 0:37:17.480 --> 0:37:21.720 I'm still connected with my older sister. But I realized 0:37:21.719 --> 0:37:24.439 a long time ago, I I, you know, you don't 0:37:24.520 --> 0:37:29.080 choose your family, and you know, so sometimes they're they're 0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:32.480 just not the ones that you are are really connected with. 0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:34.400 You know, I really sort of built my own family. 0:37:35.360 --> 0:37:37.840 So you grew up in a middle class family, certainly 0:37:37.880 --> 0:37:42.160 in the sixties, and then you had great financial success. 0:37:43.200 --> 0:37:46.760 Did you give your sister money? Did you buy things 0:37:46.800 --> 0:37:52.319 for your parents? Well? Yes, I was a good rock star, 0:37:52.440 --> 0:37:58.759 you know, of course. Yeah, that's that's where coming from 0:37:58.800 --> 0:38:02.160 a place where we we didn't have that much money. 0:38:02.239 --> 0:38:04.560 We were lower middle class and my father was a teacher, 0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:07.319 and it was it was but we we we were 0:38:07.400 --> 0:38:10.560 never went hungry, so that that was fine and and 0:38:10.680 --> 0:38:12.600 it was great. So the minute I got some money, 0:38:12.600 --> 0:38:15.200 I'm like, WHOA, you know, this is amazing. I can 0:38:16.040 --> 0:38:19.960 I I bought my sister a car. I ended up 0:38:20.000 --> 0:38:24.279 buying my parents house when they wanted to retire, and 0:38:24.320 --> 0:38:26.319 I kind of did that for a while, and then 0:38:26.320 --> 0:38:29.680 I realized, I'm not really well with my parents. It 0:38:29.719 --> 0:38:31.640 was fine because they had worked hard all their life 0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:34.680 and and and I felt, you know, that that was 0:38:34.719 --> 0:38:37.440 not a problem, you know. And I ended up supporting 0:38:37.480 --> 0:38:40.080 my mother until she passed away a few years ago. 0:38:40.840 --> 0:38:43.120 But my sister, I realized, wait, but I'm not helping 0:38:43.120 --> 0:38:46.160 my sister because she's not doing anything, you know, and 0:38:46.239 --> 0:38:49.520 she's unhappy and and she's still you know, she was 0:38:49.560 --> 0:38:52.360 having her own drug issues and her kids. And I 0:38:52.440 --> 0:38:57.200 ended up taking her daughter out of her home for 0:38:57.239 --> 0:38:59.760 a while and and putting her in her boarding school 0:38:59.840 --> 0:39:04.239 and helping her. So when I realized that my this 0:39:04.400 --> 0:39:08.759 sort of enabling my sister financially was not helping her, 0:39:09.400 --> 0:39:11.400 and I, like I said, when I went through cancer, 0:39:11.400 --> 0:39:17.239 I had a real kind of spiritual um m hmm 0:39:18.160 --> 0:39:22.560 enlightenment about, Oh, it's not my job to save anybody 0:39:22.560 --> 0:39:26.279 else or fix anybody else. They have to, you know, 0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:29.280 go through what they need to go through. I finally 0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:31.560 called her and said, Okay, you've got a roof over 0:39:31.600 --> 0:39:35.880 your head. That's it. I'm not there's not another dime, 0:39:35.920 --> 0:39:39.480 and I don't want to hear from you. And I didn't, 0:39:39.760 --> 0:39:43.120 you know, and she's you know, like I said, I 0:39:43.120 --> 0:39:45.080 go through her daughter. Her daughter now takes care of 0:39:45.080 --> 0:39:48.759 her more. And UM, you know you just sort of 0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:58.239 you just let that be. So what kind of kid 0:39:58.280 --> 0:40:01.719 were you going up? Were you like running around the 0:40:01.760 --> 0:40:08.200 neighborhood with good student, bad student, loaner, life of the party. Um. 0:40:08.239 --> 0:40:12.680 I was a friendly child. I was a happy child. Uh. 0:40:12.800 --> 0:40:17.080 I love music from early on earlier, from my first 0:40:17.120 --> 0:40:19.759 memories were the Beatles singing I want to hold your hand, 0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:23.680 you know. That's that's so. I was just obsessed with music. 0:40:24.200 --> 0:40:26.120 I was a good child because I saw my sister 0:40:26.280 --> 0:40:29.520 causing so much havoc and the family. I sort of 0:40:29.560 --> 0:40:32.640 just stayed quiet and did my own thing. And I 0:40:32.680 --> 0:40:38.920 got along with my father really well. Uh I you know, 0:40:39.080 --> 0:40:43.600 I I didn't cause any trouble. Um in high school, 0:40:43.760 --> 0:40:46.759 I was friends with everyone. I was known. I mean, 0:40:46.760 --> 0:40:49.480 if you ask anyone, nobody is surprised that I became 0:40:49.480 --> 0:40:51.399 successful because I was the girl that would walk around 0:40:51.440 --> 0:40:54.600 the halls with my guitar case all the time, you know, 0:40:54.719 --> 0:40:58.200 and I was missy that you know, made music and 0:40:58.239 --> 0:41:00.400 everybody knew that. And I knew the sporty kids. I 0:41:00.480 --> 0:41:03.640 knew the the pot smoking kids outside, I knew the 0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:07.200 brainy kids. I knew the music and drama geeks, and 0:41:07.200 --> 0:41:10.400 and we all hung out. It was, you know, even racially. 0:41:10.480 --> 0:41:14.360 I had black friends. I had all all kinds of friends. 0:41:14.800 --> 0:41:17.239 Yet I was kind of a loner when it really 0:41:17.239 --> 0:41:18.920 came down to it, because I would go off on 0:41:18.960 --> 0:41:22.239 the weekends and and play in my bands, and I'd 0:41:22.239 --> 0:41:25.760 make money, so I didn't socialize as much as most 0:41:26.400 --> 0:41:32.759 kids do. And um, but you know, I look back 0:41:32.760 --> 0:41:35.800 and I didn't cause any trouble. I wasn't a straight 0:41:35.800 --> 0:41:39.200 a student by any means, but I did fine. You know, 0:41:40.560 --> 0:41:45.520 So when did you start playing an instrument? Ah? The 0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:50.520 first instrument I played was a guitar. I took guitar 0:41:50.640 --> 0:41:54.400 lessons at age eight. The guy didn't want to teach me. 0:41:54.440 --> 0:41:57.520 He said my fingers would bleed and i'd quit. I said, no, 0:41:57.560 --> 0:41:59.439 I won't, No, I won't, he said, I was too young, 0:42:00.000 --> 0:42:02.120 and my fingers bled. But I didn't quit, and I 0:42:02.160 --> 0:42:06.080 just kept going and now I have huge calyss. But um, 0:42:06.080 --> 0:42:10.799 but then I learned clarinet in school and uh, then 0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:13.319 that became I also learned saxophone. I learned all kinds 0:42:13.320 --> 0:42:15.640 of stuff, and in like junior high, I was very 0:42:15.680 --> 0:42:19.000 interested in all kinds of music. I taught myself how 0:42:19.080 --> 0:42:23.080 to play the piano. I made the drummers in my 0:42:23.200 --> 0:42:26.319 bands teach me how to play the drums. I just 0:42:26.360 --> 0:42:29.320 wanted to learn everything. So I you know, I'm I'm 0:42:29.480 --> 0:42:32.720 very good at a couple of instruments, and I'm okay 0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:35.760 to a few, and I could make sound out of others. 0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:40.640 You know. Okay, so you're playing the guitar. At what 0:42:40.760 --> 0:42:45.439 point do you form a band? Ah? Well, I tried 0:42:45.480 --> 0:42:48.920 to form form a band when I was in in 0:42:49.280 --> 0:42:52.120 like early school, like when I was twelve or thirteen, 0:42:52.200 --> 0:42:54.880 but I just couldn't get any of my other friends, 0:42:55.000 --> 0:42:57.080 you know interested. I did say, come on, you know here, 0:42:57.440 --> 0:43:00.480 play the play this, and I ended up teaching my 0:43:00.480 --> 0:43:02.520 best friend how to play bass because I wanted him 0:43:02.560 --> 0:43:06.359 to play with me. And then when I finally met 0:43:06.440 --> 0:43:12.040 professional musicians through this variety show and and met professionals 0:43:12.080 --> 0:43:15.680 that I mean professionals as in guys that had other jobs, 0:43:15.680 --> 0:43:18.560 but on the weekends they would go out and and working. 0:43:18.560 --> 0:43:20.960 These were grown ups with families, but they would play 0:43:21.000 --> 0:43:24.920 on the weekends at dances and would make extra money. 0:43:25.160 --> 0:43:29.160 And my mother wasn't supportive of it, but my father was, 0:43:29.239 --> 0:43:33.879 and so we won that argument, and uh, I ended 0:43:33.960 --> 0:43:37.760 up playing with professional musicians. And so the first band 0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:41.759 I played in I was I was about thirteen, and 0:43:41.800 --> 0:43:44.120 it was a country band, you know as Chuck Hamersmith 0:43:44.160 --> 0:43:46.839 and the Wranglers, and but these cats could play. They 0:43:46.880 --> 0:43:50.880 were good and they're still they're old guys now playing 0:43:50.960 --> 0:43:54.359 you know in Leavenworth, but they were great. And then 0:43:54.400 --> 0:43:55.959 I went on from there and played in a couple 0:43:55.960 --> 0:43:58.120 of other bands until I had like my own band 0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:02.239 of these grown ups, UH that I played until my 0:44:02.320 --> 0:44:04.480 senior year. Then when I was a senior in high school, 0:44:04.560 --> 0:44:07.279 I said I want to be a normal kid, and 0:44:07.360 --> 0:44:11.040 I stopped playing in bands. Well, when you would play 0:44:11.080 --> 0:44:14.200 in bands, since he was, were all professionals. How much 0:44:14.239 --> 0:44:17.799 rehearsal would you do during the week? We rehearsed once 0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:20.399 a week. We rehearse on Wednesdays, so my father would 0:44:20.480 --> 0:44:23.040 drive me there and then on weekends my father would 0:44:23.040 --> 0:44:25.759 go to every single show. I never played any anywhere 0:44:25.760 --> 0:44:31.360 that my father didn't go. That's a pretty dedicated father. Wow, absolutely, 0:44:31.480 --> 0:44:35.080 I owe the performer you see today is because my 0:44:35.120 --> 0:44:37.879 father was willing to do that and he loved it too, 0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:42.560 and we were very close. It was wonderful. And uh, 0:44:43.160 --> 0:44:47.640 what role did you play in these bands? Well? First 0:44:47.719 --> 0:44:51.799 I was just the singer, the girls singer, and I 0:44:51.800 --> 0:44:54.320 would get up and sing Tammy Wynett, you know, stand 0:44:54.360 --> 0:45:00.360 by your man and um. Then as the band's pur gressed, 0:45:00.360 --> 0:45:03.400 it got a little bit more pop music and I 0:45:04.440 --> 0:45:07.879 we would play guitar. I would play rhythm guitar. Then 0:45:07.880 --> 0:45:10.080 in one of my bands, the organ player taught me 0:45:10.160 --> 0:45:13.600 how to play bass. And he taught me, uh organ 0:45:14.320 --> 0:45:16.880 and you know, synthesizers stuff, and so I would I 0:45:16.880 --> 0:45:19.239 would also double He would play bass and I would 0:45:19.280 --> 0:45:23.920 double on the keyboards and um. So eventually I was 0:45:23.960 --> 0:45:27.840 a keyboard player, organ player. I didn't play much bass 0:45:27.960 --> 0:45:31.880 because I was a little but guitar player and singer, 0:45:32.000 --> 0:45:35.200 you know, lead singer. And at what point did you 0:45:35.239 --> 0:45:38.799 start writing songs? Well, let's started writing when I was 0:45:38.840 --> 0:45:41.480 about ten or eleven. Of course they were very simple 0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:48.040 songs and and the the beauty of playing in cover 0:45:48.120 --> 0:45:51.440 bands is you learn about songs. You play other people's 0:45:51.440 --> 0:45:56.000 songs that are popular, and you learn it just becomes 0:45:56.000 --> 0:45:59.200 obvious to you what makes them good. You you learned 0:45:59.200 --> 0:46:01.600 the form of a song, long you learn the power 0:46:01.680 --> 0:46:05.560 behind the song. You know. You keep being playing other 0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:09.279 people's material until you start writing and going okay, this 0:46:09.360 --> 0:46:12.040 is this is how it is. And it wasn't until 0:46:12.080 --> 0:46:15.759 I started playing solo in my twenties that I actually 0:46:16.239 --> 0:46:21.080 played my original music for people. Okay, so you're in 0:46:21.200 --> 0:46:26.000 high school. Both your parents graduated from college. What were 0:46:26.000 --> 0:46:29.480 the expectations and how did you deal with that? Oh, 0:46:29.560 --> 0:46:31.680 I was supposed to go to college because my sister 0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:35.840 was disappointing, and she was she didn't even graduate high school, 0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:38.360 so you know, I was supposed to go to college. Well. 0:46:38.840 --> 0:46:40.919 As as my high school years went on, my mother 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:43.560 saw that I was not interested in anything but music. 0:46:44.440 --> 0:46:49.359 She insisted I go take like music theory courses at 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:54.960 the University of Missouri, you know, Kansas City, the Conservatory 0:46:55.040 --> 0:46:58.160 and stuff, and so I took some and then she said, 0:46:58.280 --> 0:47:00.640 you know, then when they said you're going to go 0:47:00.640 --> 0:47:04.160 to college, I looked at it as well, that'll get 0:47:04.200 --> 0:47:07.000 me out of this little town. And so we went 0:47:07.040 --> 0:47:11.759 and looked at colleges but in nine you couldn't. You 0:47:11.840 --> 0:47:15.920 couldn't major. You couldn't. I would have had two major 0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:19.040 in singing. They only had voice and it was all 0:47:19.080 --> 0:47:21.920 operarettic and I was not an opera singer at all. 0:47:22.560 --> 0:47:26.040 And so the only college was this kind of new 0:47:26.120 --> 0:47:30.279 college in Boston called Berkeley College of Music that was 0:47:30.320 --> 0:47:35.160 a jazz h college and they I could major in guitar. 0:47:36.400 --> 0:47:39.600 So uh, I'm like, all right, sign me up. And 0:47:40.040 --> 0:47:42.520 I didn't even go check out the school. I just 0:47:43.239 --> 0:47:45.000 you know, we paid the tuition. At the time, it 0:47:45.080 --> 0:47:47.440 was just you didn't even have to audition. They just 0:47:47.480 --> 0:47:51.360 took whoever wanted to come. And um, I got in, 0:47:53.000 --> 0:47:55.799 and you know, my life changes. I'm in Boston, I'm 0:47:55.840 --> 0:48:00.080 on my own. It's I'm eighteen, nineteen years old. And 0:48:00.480 --> 0:48:03.720 uh so I went to Brooklyn College Music for about 0:48:03.840 --> 0:48:06.760 one semester. That was about it. And then I dropped 0:48:06.760 --> 0:48:10.319 out and started working and playing in a restaurant and 0:48:10.360 --> 0:48:12.480 making a living. So my parents couldn't say anything. They said, 0:48:12.520 --> 0:48:16.520 as long as yourself sufficient, okay, but you know, there 0:48:16.520 --> 0:48:21.239 you go. Okay, needless to say, the odds of success 0:48:21.320 --> 0:48:24.439 in the music business as a performer, to say they're 0:48:24.480 --> 0:48:31.280 low is you know, gross understatement? So along the way, 0:48:31.280 --> 0:48:34.600 did people say did you tell them your dream and 0:48:34.600 --> 0:48:36.919 then they like roll their eyes and say, You're never 0:48:36.960 --> 0:48:40.080 gonna make it? Did you ever think of going straight? 0:48:40.200 --> 0:48:43.680 Did people for they say you should go straight? You know? 0:48:45.480 --> 0:48:47.440 When I was very young and I'd say, oh, I'm 0:48:47.440 --> 0:48:49.279 going to be a singer, I got a lot of 0:48:49.280 --> 0:48:52.160 eye rolling or a lot of really confused people like 0:48:52.560 --> 0:48:55.839 what you're gonna be? What you know, no girls are 0:48:55.920 --> 0:49:00.560 nurses or you know, teachers or something. But the older 0:49:00.560 --> 0:49:02.600 that I got and the more that I was actually 0:49:03.000 --> 0:49:08.799 performing in bands, people would go, well, good luck, you know, 0:49:08.960 --> 0:49:11.680 and even my parents, even my mother, who was not supportive, 0:49:12.320 --> 0:49:15.279 she would not tell me, you know, you can't make it. 0:49:15.320 --> 0:49:18.280 I remember actually asking her once I was about fourteen 0:49:18.360 --> 0:49:21.080 or fifteen, I said, do you think I have a 0:49:21.160 --> 0:49:23.880 chance of making it in the music business? And she said, well, 0:49:24.840 --> 0:49:27.760 you know, it's a one in a million, but who's 0:49:27.800 --> 0:49:31.120 to say you're not that one? And that was enough. 0:49:31.560 --> 0:49:35.280 That was enough to give me. Well, then you're saying 0:49:35.280 --> 0:49:38.319 there's a chance, you know, and and so I was like, yeah, 0:49:38.320 --> 0:49:40.239 who's to say I'm not the one in the in 0:49:40.280 --> 0:49:42.799 the million, and so I just it was such a 0:49:43.000 --> 0:49:49.200 huge desire and calling that I was just I just 0:49:49.719 --> 0:49:52.520 was gonna do it wherever it took me. Did you 0:49:52.600 --> 0:49:56.040 ever have a straight job? Yeah, I had a couple, 0:49:56.200 --> 0:49:58.240 Like when I told you, I didn't play in bands 0:49:58.280 --> 0:50:00.720 when I was in my senior year in high school 0:50:00.840 --> 0:50:02.600 because I wanted to be a kid and go to 0:50:02.640 --> 0:50:07.000 the football games and stuff. I worked at the Kentucky 0:50:07.040 --> 0:50:10.759 Fried Chicken and I was a packer back, which is 0:50:10.800 --> 0:50:12.400 one of the reasons I'll never eat it a Kentucky 0:50:12.440 --> 0:50:16.000 Fried Chicken. But I worked there. And then when I 0:50:16.040 --> 0:50:19.320 moved to Boston, when I was at Berkeley, I wanted 0:50:19.360 --> 0:50:21.759 to get an apartment, and so first I got a 0:50:21.880 --> 0:50:25.239 job as a as a security guard at a at 0:50:25.239 --> 0:50:28.640 a hospital, which was really difficult work, and I was 0:50:28.680 --> 0:50:32.239 making seven dollars an hour. And that's when I I said, 0:50:32.280 --> 0:50:35.000 you know what, I'm gonna take my guitar and I'm 0:50:35.000 --> 0:50:36.920 gonna go down to the subway station. I'm gonna open 0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:39.200 it up and I'm gonna sing in the subway. And 0:50:39.239 --> 0:50:42.520 I made for an hour, I made seven dollars, and 0:50:42.560 --> 0:50:45.600 I went, Okay, I can make the same money that 0:50:45.640 --> 0:50:48.600 I'm making you know, doing that, and I'm gonna I'm 0:50:48.600 --> 0:50:50.880 gonna try music. And that's when I walked down to 0:50:51.040 --> 0:50:54.400 a few restaurants on Boylson Street in Boston and I 0:50:54.480 --> 0:50:56.600 found one an audition that I got a job and 0:50:56.640 --> 0:50:59.080 I was making twenty five bucks a night. So I 0:50:59.200 --> 0:51:03.400 and after that I never had a real job. Okay, 0:51:03.840 --> 0:51:07.319 anything positive about going to Berkeley other than the fact 0:51:07.320 --> 0:51:12.960 that got you to Boston, Um, well, I could have 0:51:13.040 --> 0:51:15.239 made it more positive now that I you know, look back, 0:51:15.280 --> 0:51:18.360 I think i'd be more a bit more of a 0:51:19.960 --> 0:51:24.920 uh a better, more um educated guitar player had I 0:51:25.000 --> 0:51:27.520 gotten into it. But at the time I was one 0:51:27.560 --> 0:51:30.920 of like two guitar women guitar players, So it was 0:51:31.480 --> 0:51:34.480 it really wasn't a place for me now, but I 0:51:34.480 --> 0:51:38.160 mean then, but now, man, it's it's a great, great school. 0:51:38.200 --> 0:51:42.000 I I they gave me an honorary doctorate, so you know, 0:51:42.160 --> 0:51:47.520 I'm good. Did your mother live long enough to see that, 0:51:47.800 --> 0:51:50.680 Yes she did? And it was really it was great. 0:51:50.880 --> 0:51:54.040 It was wonderful that look mom, now my kids now 0:51:54.080 --> 0:51:56.120 of course, and my daughter's like, Mom, that's not real. 0:51:56.200 --> 0:51:58.600 I'm like, I know, I know, don't worry. You have 0:51:58.680 --> 0:52:03.560 your masters it's all beautiful. It's okay. So how hard 0:52:03.600 --> 0:52:07.480 a decision was it? And what was the process deciding 0:52:07.520 --> 0:52:11.040 to drop out? Oh, it was not hard at all. 0:52:11.120 --> 0:52:15.800 It just happened, you know. I I had um, I 0:52:15.840 --> 0:52:18.960 had gotten the job at this restaurant was called Kins 0:52:18.960 --> 0:52:22.560 by George, and I was playing in the lounge and 0:52:22.719 --> 0:52:26.920 one evening one of my teachers came in and sat 0:52:28.040 --> 0:52:31.160 and had a couple of drinks with someone there, and 0:52:31.200 --> 0:52:32.759 I was like, oh my god, that's my you know, 0:52:33.080 --> 0:52:37.319 uh arrangement teacher or something. And I remember singing and like, oh, 0:52:37.360 --> 0:52:40.840 he's gonna recognize me. And he never recognized me. He 0:52:41.040 --> 0:52:45.160 never like realized that I was a student in his class. 0:52:45.560 --> 0:52:49.760 And I was like, I am just invisible at Berkeley. 0:52:49.840 --> 0:52:55.120 And I didn't I didn't enjoy breaking music down into 0:52:55.719 --> 0:53:00.120 theory and you know, the jazz theory of you know, 0:53:00.160 --> 0:53:02.160 one chord has to go to another, and it was 0:53:02.200 --> 0:53:06.160 all this rules on music and I really wasn't into 0:53:06.239 --> 0:53:10.040 it at all, and it was just kind of sucking 0:53:10.040 --> 0:53:11.880 my energy out and I just went, you know what, 0:53:12.640 --> 0:53:17.239 I'm making a living. I'm self sufficient, and I just 0:53:17.239 --> 0:53:21.680 stopped going. I just stopped. Okay, what kind of material 0:53:21.760 --> 0:53:25.920 were you playing? Oh, I was. It was all cover material. 0:53:25.960 --> 0:53:28.040 It was you know, it was lounge music. I was 0:53:28.040 --> 0:53:33.760 playing Barry Manilow and Barbara streisand and Neil Diamond and uh. 0:53:34.040 --> 0:53:37.839 It was nineteen seventy nine eighty at this point, and 0:53:37.880 --> 0:53:40.759 so it was you know, the Doobie Brothers. It was. 0:53:41.200 --> 0:53:43.080 It was just whatever was popular at the time and 0:53:43.160 --> 0:53:45.920 a bunch of show tunes. And was it always on 0:53:45.960 --> 0:53:48.000 the guitar? Do you have a keyboard too? I had 0:53:48.000 --> 0:53:50.359 a piano. Most of it was piano. But I did 0:53:50.400 --> 0:53:53.600 set up my guitar and play that and and and 0:53:53.719 --> 0:53:57.920 the people liked me, and I started to get a following. Okay, 0:53:57.960 --> 0:54:00.360 so you've established a base. You made a tweet addition 0:54:00.480 --> 0:54:04.000 from Berkeley to being self sustaining. How long do you 0:54:04.080 --> 0:54:08.400 do that? And you're earning money? But it's not quite 0:54:08.560 --> 0:54:11.760 the path of your dream. Yeah, And I couldn't see 0:54:11.760 --> 0:54:15.719 how I could get to my dream, which was that 0:54:16.560 --> 0:54:23.120 you know California seventies, uh, folk rock sound, you know 0:54:23.200 --> 0:54:28.000 the Eagles, the the you know Fleetwood, mac Bob Seeger, 0:54:28.040 --> 0:54:30.880 Bruce Springsteen. This this that was who was calling me. 0:54:30.920 --> 0:54:33.719 And that was not the scene. This was nineteen eighty 0:54:33.719 --> 0:54:37.319 in Boston, so it was punk, it was uh you know, 0:54:37.400 --> 0:54:40.560 and I was playing pop show tunes in you know, 0:54:40.800 --> 0:54:44.760 a restaurant. So that was not what I wanted. So I, um, 0:54:44.800 --> 0:54:48.600 I went back to Kansas City, got a job at 0:54:48.640 --> 0:54:54.440 a hotel They're called the Granada Royale. I played in 0:54:54.440 --> 0:54:58.080 the Lavaranda Lounge, made some more money, bought a car, 0:54:58.680 --> 0:55:02.040 and then in too drove to l A where I 0:55:02.120 --> 0:55:05.880 was going to be discovered and you know, be somehow 0:55:07.040 --> 0:55:11.160 meet up with all these you know, uh rock you know, 0:55:11.239 --> 0:55:14.879 acoustic rock musicians. But when I got to l A two, 0:55:15.920 --> 0:55:19.520 it was all spandex and hair and heavy metal bands, 0:55:19.680 --> 0:55:25.000 and I was like, oh, So I found work in 0:55:25.120 --> 0:55:29.120 women's bars, in lesbian bars around Los Angeles, like in 0:55:29.360 --> 0:55:33.280 Long Beach in Pasadena, and um I worked for five 0:55:33.440 --> 0:55:39.320 years in those uh bars, but was able to play 0:55:39.320 --> 0:55:44.000 my original music, was able to start performing. The performer 0:55:44.080 --> 0:55:48.400 you really see today really came out of the bars 0:55:48.440 --> 0:55:52.200 where I felt comfortable, where I've supported, and um I 0:55:52.320 --> 0:55:55.759 sort of created my own path like that, and over 0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:58.719 the years, many record companies came out to see me, 0:56:00.040 --> 0:56:01.680 you know, and whether they didn't sign me because I 0:56:01.719 --> 0:56:03.960 was gay, I don't know, but they didn't hear the hit. 0:56:04.760 --> 0:56:12.920 And UM, finally Chris Blackwell in six late early UM 0:56:13.239 --> 0:56:15.920 signed me. And he said, I don't know why someone 0:56:15.920 --> 0:56:18.400 hasn't signed to you yet. You're amazing and and he 0:56:18.440 --> 0:56:20.600 said to me, he goes, I think the future of 0:56:20.719 --> 0:56:23.279 rock and roll has a female face, and I want 0:56:23.320 --> 0:56:27.000 you to be on my label. Let's go back a chapter. 0:56:28.200 --> 0:56:30.680 You buy a car, you drive to l A. Do 0:56:30.800 --> 0:56:35.680 you know anybody in El? Yes, my my father's sister 0:56:35.920 --> 0:56:40.640 and brother. Uh, my aunt and uncle. They were separate. 0:56:40.680 --> 0:56:44.840 My my aunt. I slept on her couch for a 0:56:44.880 --> 0:56:47.759 few weeks until I got a job in a in 0:56:47.760 --> 0:56:49.440 a bar and then I moved down to Long Beach. 0:56:50.080 --> 0:56:53.560 But um, yeah, I knew her so but that was 0:56:53.600 --> 0:56:56.160 all I only knew her. Okay, you talk about the 0:56:56.239 --> 0:57:02.279 lesbian bars. At what age did you realize you were gay? Oh? 0:57:02.320 --> 0:57:05.239 My gosh. You know, it was hard to realize you 0:57:05.239 --> 0:57:08.200 were gay in the seventies because there was no talk 0:57:08.320 --> 0:57:12.960 of gay. You didn't hear it anywhere except the you know, 0:57:13.040 --> 0:57:16.160 derogatory comments that oh, she's a lazzie. And I remember going, 0:57:16.200 --> 0:57:18.520 what's a leazie? You know? And well that's somebody who 0:57:18.560 --> 0:57:20.600 you know, likes girl. That's a girl who likes girls. 0:57:21.240 --> 0:57:25.040 I was like, hm, you know. And it wasn't until 0:57:25.120 --> 0:57:29.560 high school when I realized all my um, all my 0:57:31.160 --> 0:57:38.120 uh m friends were getting kind of boy crazy and 0:57:38.200 --> 0:57:40.800 I wasn't. And I just sort of talked it up 0:57:40.800 --> 0:57:42.760 too well, I have this different life where I go 0:57:42.840 --> 0:57:47.080 out in the weekends and play an adult, you know bars. 0:57:48.120 --> 0:57:50.400 But I still I really wasn't boy crazy at all, 0:57:50.520 --> 0:57:54.280 but I really needed to be around some girls that 0:57:54.360 --> 0:57:57.400 I really liked, you know. And and so as I 0:57:57.440 --> 0:58:01.280 grew kind of older in high school, I started to 0:58:01.360 --> 0:58:04.040 kind of think, you know, I think I'm different. You 0:58:04.160 --> 0:58:09.440 you just you feel different. And then you know, my 0:58:09.560 --> 0:58:12.800 senior year, my when I turned seventeen, actually I I 0:58:12.920 --> 0:58:14.959 kissed a girl and it was like, oh my god, 0:58:15.720 --> 0:58:19.720 I'm that whatever that is. And I just knew that. 0:58:21.720 --> 0:58:24.680 I remember seeing h I think it was Time magazine 0:58:24.760 --> 0:58:28.920 had a cover. It was it is said the Gay Liberation. 0:58:28.960 --> 0:58:31.240 You know, it's ninety nine when that was starting. So 0:58:31.280 --> 0:58:33.680 it was the first time I ever saw that when wait, 0:58:33.720 --> 0:58:36.240 there's more people like me. So I knew I had 0:58:36.240 --> 0:58:38.200 to get to like a big city. And once I 0:58:38.200 --> 0:58:41.040 went to Boston. It was like, oh, yeah, you're gay. 0:58:41.080 --> 0:58:43.880 So I don't know, I could say I knew I 0:58:43.960 --> 0:58:49.600 was gay at thirteen, I could say seventeen, I'm not sure. Okay, 0:58:49.600 --> 0:58:52.880 how did you end up kissing the girl? Well, she 0:58:53.120 --> 0:58:56.600 was my best friend, you know, kind of that obsessive 0:58:56.640 --> 0:59:02.560 best friend that and um, you know, we went everywhere, 0:59:02.560 --> 0:59:06.360 I did everything together when I was like sixteen. And 0:59:06.400 --> 0:59:11.360 then on my seventeenth birthday, Um, you know, we're girls, 0:59:11.360 --> 0:59:13.200 are are lucky. We can you know, hey, we're having 0:59:13.200 --> 0:59:17.160 a sleepover, you know. And well that sleepover on my 0:59:17.240 --> 0:59:22.480 seventeenth birthday involved a kiss. So okay, but you know, 0:59:22.800 --> 0:59:27.840 literature and movies are riddled with people who kiss somebody 0:59:28.360 --> 0:59:31.360 and then that person that they kiss pull away and 0:59:31.400 --> 0:59:36.320 all kinds of negative things happened. So inspired no, it was. 0:59:36.480 --> 0:59:41.160 It was definitely, uh went both ways. And we were 0:59:41.600 --> 0:59:45.440 we were tortured girlfriends my whole senior year of high school. 0:59:45.480 --> 0:59:48.040 We were you know, we couldn't tell anybody we we were. 0:59:48.520 --> 0:59:50.400 We were. We went to a church, you know, we 0:59:50.400 --> 0:59:53.360 were involved in church, and and there was a lot 0:59:53.400 --> 0:59:57.200 of ice. I saw a lot of I don't know, 0:59:57.280 --> 0:59:58.760 you know, there's a lot of fear, and it was 0:59:58.760 --> 1:00:00.960 a lot of secrecy, and it's one of the reasons 1:00:01.560 --> 1:00:04.840 that I really I'm really grateful that more of the world, 1:00:04.920 --> 1:00:08.120 that the people are coming out now and helping younger 1:00:08.160 --> 1:00:11.160 gay people, because it's pretty tortuous, you know, to to 1:00:11.280 --> 1:00:14.480 be different like that, and I feel like you have 1:00:14.520 --> 1:00:17.400 no place and you have to keep something secret. So 1:00:17.520 --> 1:00:18.960 you know, it was like that for a year, and 1:00:19.000 --> 1:00:20.880 then when I left for Boston, it was it was 1:00:20.960 --> 1:00:23.080 much better. I was. I was never in the closet 1:00:23.120 --> 1:00:25.920 again after that. Once I went to Boston, I was okay. 1:00:25.920 --> 1:00:28.120 So you went to Boston, but still, I mean, I 1:00:28.160 --> 1:00:33.480 was living in Los Angeles, which was relatively free Los Angeles, 1:00:33.520 --> 1:00:36.360 New York and San Francisco at the time. What was 1:00:36.400 --> 1:00:42.800 it like being gay in Boston? Oh, fantastic. It was. 1:00:44.760 --> 1:00:50.760 It was disco. There was gay bars, you know down 1:00:50.800 --> 1:00:53.720 the street from me. You know, a couple it was. 1:00:53.880 --> 1:00:58.000 It was still you weren't public about it, you weren't 1:00:58.000 --> 1:01:00.920 out about it, but it was a strong community. Every 1:01:01.600 --> 1:01:04.280 night you could go to the bar. I'd go after 1:01:04.360 --> 1:01:06.560 I play, I'd go around the corner to the Prelude 1:01:06.560 --> 1:01:09.400 that was the women's bars. Buddies was the men's bar 1:01:09.560 --> 1:01:12.240 just up the street, and you know, it was it 1:01:12.320 --> 1:01:24.280 was community. There was more people, okay a little earlier 1:01:24.320 --> 1:01:30.960 than you. Uh. The biggest gay artists were in the 1:01:31.000 --> 1:01:35.520 folk world, like Holly Neia. So who did you did? 1:01:35.560 --> 1:01:38.160 You say? Well, you know, who did you model yourself over? 1:01:38.240 --> 1:01:40.600 And you say, well, this being gay doesn't matter? And 1:01:40.640 --> 1:01:43.000 I mean not to mention the fact that was Ian Wilson. 1:01:43.040 --> 1:01:46.760 But there weren't you know, a plethora of successful female 1:01:46.880 --> 1:01:52.160 rock artists. Yeah, yeah, it was. Um, I didn't see. 1:01:53.160 --> 1:01:57.200 I didn't even know the female artists that the lesbian 1:01:57.760 --> 1:02:01.200 music scene until I got to long Each, you know, 1:02:01.240 --> 1:02:04.400 in Los Angeles and was asked to play a women's 1:02:04.480 --> 1:02:06.920 music festival. I didn't even I hadn't even heard of 1:02:07.000 --> 1:02:14.000 Chris Williams and and you know, all these great lesbian artists, 1:02:14.040 --> 1:02:18.200 this strong sort of lesbian folks scene. Um. I was 1:02:18.240 --> 1:02:20.240 a bit of an outcast because I was rocking and 1:02:20.320 --> 1:02:24.320 playing and kind of different. But it was very exciting 1:02:24.360 --> 1:02:27.640 to the audience, I um. And then other than that, 1:02:27.760 --> 1:02:31.280 I mean, I was I became a Janis Joplin fan 1:02:31.360 --> 1:02:33.440 because I was like, that's the rock I want to do, 1:02:33.560 --> 1:02:35.680 you know. I and I would sing a lot of 1:02:35.680 --> 1:02:40.560 her songs. Um. Other than that, you know, Linda Ronstaff 1:02:40.720 --> 1:02:44.320 was one that I really, you know, enjoyed as a singer. 1:02:45.040 --> 1:02:46.800 But there was there was not a lot of women 1:02:46.880 --> 1:02:51.960 their heart um Pat Benatar, you know, but there was 1:02:52.040 --> 1:02:54.800 There really wasn't any that was doing exactly what I wanted, 1:02:54.800 --> 1:03:00.440 the songwriting and the acoustic rock and roll that I felt. 1:03:01.240 --> 1:03:04.600 I I didn't see that anywhere. Okay, you're living in 1:03:04.680 --> 1:03:07.880 Long Beach, which has certainly been a gay stronghold since 1:03:07.960 --> 1:03:10.960 I lived in southern California, and the world is different 1:03:11.120 --> 1:03:14.880 because of the Internet now, but long Beach. I've a 1:03:14.920 --> 1:03:16.720 friend who lives in Long Beach. Now I feel the 1:03:16.800 --> 1:03:19.400 same thing, you know. You know, it might as well 1:03:19.440 --> 1:03:24.000 be San Diego and the music businesses in West Hollywood, 1:03:24.040 --> 1:03:28.120 Hollywood now the West side of Los Angeles. To what 1:03:28.320 --> 1:03:31.920 degree do you feel displaced? Do you try to integrate, 1:03:32.000 --> 1:03:35.080 do you try to make it? Yeah? I still felt 1:03:35.120 --> 1:03:39.440 like I was outside of Hollywood. But I realized very 1:03:39.520 --> 1:03:41.600 quickly when I got here in the early eighties that 1:03:41.720 --> 1:03:45.360 you can't make any money unless you are a known artist. 1:03:45.520 --> 1:03:48.920 You you can go once a month, maybe you could 1:03:48.960 --> 1:03:53.880 go play the the club, you know, the cabaret somewhere 1:03:54.240 --> 1:03:57.480 or uh god, not even the troubadoor. You couldn't even 1:03:57.520 --> 1:03:59.920 get a job at the trouba door. You but you know, 1:04:00.040 --> 1:04:02.120 there was a couple of bars you can play, but 1:04:02.160 --> 1:04:05.640 it was paid to play. So there was no way 1:04:06.040 --> 1:04:07.400 I was going to be able to make a living 1:04:08.520 --> 1:04:12.960 and you know, work that sort of circuit. So I 1:04:13.000 --> 1:04:15.400 started playing in the in the in these bars I 1:04:15.440 --> 1:04:17.960 actually created that they didn't have music. I walked in 1:04:18.000 --> 1:04:20.240 and said, hey, can I set up my equipment in 1:04:20.320 --> 1:04:22.280 your corner and play and you can pay me twenty 1:04:22.280 --> 1:04:24.919 five bucks? And they were like okay. So I played 1:04:24.960 --> 1:04:27.480 it different different clubs, you know, a couple of nights here, 1:04:27.480 --> 1:04:28.960 a couple of nights there. I ended up playing five 1:04:29.080 --> 1:04:34.400 nights a week and making a living. But again I knew, okay, 1:04:34.760 --> 1:04:38.680 no record executive is gonna accidentally walk into a lesbian bar. 1:04:38.880 --> 1:04:41.360 You know, that's just not gonna happen. So but I 1:04:41.680 --> 1:04:46.960 did believe that as long as I would, you know, 1:04:47.720 --> 1:04:50.080 play my music and do a good job, then someday 1:04:50.160 --> 1:04:53.840 someone's gonna know somebody who knows somebody who's brother is 1:04:53.880 --> 1:04:56.880 in the music business. You know, it's going that's going 1:04:56.960 --> 1:05:00.000 to happen. People are gonna talk, they're gonna bring people down. 1:05:00.240 --> 1:05:04.280 And that is what happened after about a year. Um 1:05:04.360 --> 1:05:06.880 a soccer team, the women's soccer team that used to 1:05:06.920 --> 1:05:09.919 come after the games on Saturday would come in and 1:05:10.160 --> 1:05:13.840 have a few drinks and and watch me play. One 1:05:13.880 --> 1:05:17.800 of their coaches was married to a manager in the 1:05:17.840 --> 1:05:20.840 business and he used to manage bread. His name was 1:05:20.840 --> 1:05:24.520 Bill Leopold. They finally talked him into coming down to 1:05:24.560 --> 1:05:27.520 see me in a lesbian bar and he came in 1:05:27.720 --> 1:05:30.120 and he was blown away and he said, look, this 1:05:30.200 --> 1:05:32.960 is this is gonna be hard. I don't know if 1:05:32.960 --> 1:05:35.680 it's going to take a year or ten years, but 1:05:35.800 --> 1:05:39.280 I think that you can make it. And he signed 1:05:39.320 --> 1:05:42.320 me as a as as my manager. He was my 1:05:42.360 --> 1:05:45.320 manager for thirty years after that, and he he was 1:05:45.360 --> 1:05:49.040 the one who brought He would bring record companies to 1:05:49.120 --> 1:05:52.720 me in these bars. He said, look, you're making a living. 1:05:53.240 --> 1:05:55.440 I don't want to take you out of that. If 1:05:55.480 --> 1:05:57.520 they have a problem with it, well there you go. 1:05:57.920 --> 1:06:00.960 And I tell you every single record in Los Angeles 1:06:01.000 --> 1:06:04.280 over those five years came to see me and I 1:06:04.280 --> 1:06:05.959 would go all the way up and then they bring 1:06:06.000 --> 1:06:08.120 the head guy out. And then they'd all say no 1:06:09.520 --> 1:06:11.120 over and over and over. And I don't know how 1:06:11.240 --> 1:06:13.320 much was because I was gay or how much because 1:06:13.320 --> 1:06:16.520 they just couldn't see the hit. But um, it wasn't 1:06:16.600 --> 1:06:19.680 until Chris Blackwell he heard four songs. He came in 1:06:19.760 --> 1:06:23.360 and heard four songs and went, well, yeah, I want 1:06:23.360 --> 1:06:26.880 you on my label, and that was it. Boom done. Okay, 1:06:26.920 --> 1:06:30.400 So you never did the go to labels with your 1:06:30.480 --> 1:06:35.280 cassette demo, get to know the people yourself. No, No, 1:06:35.880 --> 1:06:40.400 he was he Uh Bill Leopold had enough contacts and 1:06:40.520 --> 1:06:43.640 knew enough heat, he had had enough artists that he 1:06:43.720 --> 1:06:46.080 had friends and said hey, and then word of mouth 1:06:46.120 --> 1:06:49.240 got around. No, I never did another demo. Well I 1:06:49.280 --> 1:06:51.680 did do a demo, but they was always horrible on 1:06:51.760 --> 1:06:54.600 demos because I didn't it wasn't me. I would always 1:06:54.640 --> 1:06:56.280 let somebody else may and it was the eighties and 1:06:56.280 --> 1:07:01.479 they were horrible eighties demos, and um, I just it wasn't. 1:07:01.720 --> 1:07:04.680 It was my live performance that was the best and 1:07:04.840 --> 1:07:08.360 it still is. And um that's what Chris black Well 1:07:08.400 --> 1:07:13.480 saw and you never wavered, you stayed this is the dream, 1:07:13.520 --> 1:07:17.520 I'm gonna do it. Yeah, And I was Hey. It 1:07:17.600 --> 1:07:20.360 was enough of the dream to show up in a 1:07:20.400 --> 1:07:22.840 bar to know that there were people there just to 1:07:22.880 --> 1:07:26.439 hear me sing, which was huge because before, when I'd 1:07:26.480 --> 1:07:29.600 be playing in bands, I was the background music. You know, 1:07:30.200 --> 1:07:33.160 in high school, I was the I wasn't the reason 1:07:33.240 --> 1:07:35.520 you would go to the show. It was a dance, 1:07:35.560 --> 1:07:37.520 you know. We were we were our job was to 1:07:37.600 --> 1:07:41.160 keep people dancing. This was me by myself in the 1:07:41.200 --> 1:07:43.840 corner of a bar, and people would come sit and 1:07:43.880 --> 1:07:46.400 watch me. And that was amazing and I could have 1:07:46.440 --> 1:07:49.040 done that. I would still be doing that if, you know, 1:07:49.240 --> 1:07:52.520 if nothing else happened, because that was that was enough 1:07:52.560 --> 1:07:56.360 of a dream of how people come to see me. Okay, 1:07:56.520 --> 1:08:01.480 legendarily you cut the album that was scrapped, and we 1:08:01.640 --> 1:08:03.520 cut the album in a matter of days. Now that 1:08:03.600 --> 1:08:07.120 I have you here, what exactly happened? Yes, that is 1:08:07.160 --> 1:08:09.960 what happened. I Chris Blackwell comes in, and Chris Bogwell 1:08:10.080 --> 1:08:14.160 is a man of mystery and and he's a wealthy 1:08:14.480 --> 1:08:16.960 he owns Island Records and Island Pictures and he's just 1:08:17.040 --> 1:08:18.960 this guy. And so he goes, yes, I want you 1:08:18.960 --> 1:08:20.799 all my label and then he runs off to Jamaican 1:08:20.920 --> 1:08:24.400 I don't see him for months, and so I'm like, okay, 1:08:24.479 --> 1:08:26.519 I'm supposed to make a record and I don't know how. 1:08:26.560 --> 1:08:31.160 And so, um, my manager knows a producer named Jim Gaines. 1:08:31.560 --> 1:08:35.519 Fine producer. He produced uh Steve Miller band. He engineered. 1:08:35.560 --> 1:08:38.960 He's more of an engineer that then became a producer 1:08:39.560 --> 1:08:41.679 and you know, so he worked on you know Journey. 1:08:41.720 --> 1:08:45.320 He was a Northern California kind of San Francisco sound 1:08:45.760 --> 1:08:51.479 kind of guy, and at the time, again it's there's 1:08:51.520 --> 1:08:55.320 a very eight sound going on. So he brings these 1:08:55.400 --> 1:09:00.719 musicians together, and um, I I insisted on certain drummer 1:09:00.720 --> 1:09:02.920 and bass player that I had in my over my 1:09:03.040 --> 1:09:05.920 years there in l A. I had done some demos 1:09:06.080 --> 1:09:08.080 and they were they were just two of the greatest 1:09:08.160 --> 1:09:11.280 musicians I've ever worked with. It was Craig Cramp, who 1:09:11.439 --> 1:09:15.360 was this amazing studio musician, and Kevin McCormick, who's this 1:09:16.439 --> 1:09:19.360 you know, Jocko Pastorius type bass player. He was amazing. 1:09:19.720 --> 1:09:21.439 And so I said, okay, well, I want these two 1:09:21.439 --> 1:09:24.320 guys at least to you know, play, and so we 1:09:24.400 --> 1:09:26.479 bring them out and then he hires a guitar player 1:09:26.479 --> 1:09:30.000 and a keyboard player and I go into the studio, 1:09:30.680 --> 1:09:35.320 the famous record plant up in Saclito. You know, all 1:09:35.320 --> 1:09:37.280 these famous people have been in there. I'm just so 1:09:37.400 --> 1:09:43.639 delighted to being there. And he cuts the record and it's, um, 1:09:43.680 --> 1:09:47.000 it's you know, you play the track, and then the 1:09:47.080 --> 1:09:50.360 keyboard player comes in and he lays it just hours 1:09:50.400 --> 1:09:54.120 and hours of keyboard sounds. And I think there was 1:09:54.160 --> 1:09:56.519 a bit of cocaine happening too, because it kind of 1:09:56.520 --> 1:10:00.000 got kind of crazy. And then after days I would 1:10:00.040 --> 1:10:02.000 come in and sing and my voice would just kind 1:10:02.000 --> 1:10:05.759 of be all processed on the top. And so we finally, 1:10:05.880 --> 1:10:08.599 you know, got enough tracks together after a couple of weeks, 1:10:09.360 --> 1:10:12.839 and I took him to Chris Blackwell and he said, mmmmm, 1:10:13.120 --> 1:10:16.720 I hate this and I was like, oh no, I've 1:10:16.800 --> 1:10:21.080 lost my chance. He was very very so when the 1:10:21.160 --> 1:10:24.519 drummer in the Basebaer Kevin and Craig said, look, we 1:10:24.920 --> 1:10:27.120 understand because they had been to the bar to hear 1:10:27.160 --> 1:10:29.840 me sing live. They said, I think we know what 1:10:29.920 --> 1:10:32.639 Chris Blackwell wants. Tell him to give us four days 1:10:32.640 --> 1:10:35.040 in the studio. That's all we need, and we'll cut 1:10:35.040 --> 1:10:38.000 an album for him. And so I went back to Chris. 1:10:38.040 --> 1:10:40.200 I said, please just give me four days cheap studio, 1:10:40.360 --> 1:10:43.200 l A. I don't care. Just four days, he said, okay, 1:10:43.600 --> 1:10:46.599 and he sent one of his people to bring in. 1:10:47.560 --> 1:10:50.639 I had already done the photo shoot for the album 1:10:50.720 --> 1:10:54.000 cover and we had chosen that remember that red photo 1:10:54.240 --> 1:10:56.400 of course, yeah, that you know, and I've got my 1:10:56.520 --> 1:11:01.920 head up like that. He the woman actually brought it in. 1:11:02.080 --> 1:11:05.960 She put it on the the a console in the 1:11:06.000 --> 1:11:08.479 studio and she said, Chris Blackwell wants you to make 1:11:08.640 --> 1:11:12.519 this album. So it was that picture he wanted, that 1:11:12.640 --> 1:11:15.559 rock and roll picture, that woman that he saw in 1:11:15.600 --> 1:11:18.040 the bar. That's what he wanted. And so we went 1:11:18.040 --> 1:11:21.160 in and drums, bass and guitar. That was It was 1:11:21.200 --> 1:11:25.559 just me, Kevin and and Craig and we recorded all 1:11:25.640 --> 1:11:28.200 day long and we recorded those ten tracks on that 1:11:28.320 --> 1:11:31.960 first album. And we and we brought Wady walk Tell 1:11:32.080 --> 1:11:35.960 in to just play some guitar, which you know, he's 1:11:36.400 --> 1:11:39.200 legendary guitar player, so that you know, bring me some 1:11:39.280 --> 1:11:42.719 water and and like the way I do, that's him playing. 1:11:43.479 --> 1:11:47.240 And we added a little bit of keyboard later just 1:11:47.360 --> 1:11:50.479 for some pad turned it in, he loved it, and 1:11:50.520 --> 1:11:54.360 the rest is history. And how did Nicolo get involved. 1:11:55.120 --> 1:11:58.280 Craig and Kevin knew him, and they said, this is 1:11:58.320 --> 1:12:00.760 the guy we want to engineer because Ko was a 1:12:00.800 --> 1:12:03.479 madman and he would he would do Neil Young and 1:12:03.479 --> 1:12:06.280 Crazy Horse, so he knew he knew how to make 1:12:06.400 --> 1:12:12.400 a small live band sound huge, and that's exactly what 1:12:12.439 --> 1:12:14.400 he did. He was so good. He he took all 1:12:14.439 --> 1:12:16.759 the effects off my voice. If you listen, my voice 1:12:16.760 --> 1:12:21.400 is so dry. It was. It was revolutionary at the time. 1:12:21.400 --> 1:12:24.640 Nothing else was sounding like that. So I was so 1:12:24.720 --> 1:12:28.519 grateful for Nico. Okay, give Me Some Water? Was that 1:12:28.640 --> 1:12:34.800 written before the red cut? Actually, yes, it was. It 1:12:34.880 --> 1:12:39.960 was the original songs after after he didn't like that 1:12:40.000 --> 1:12:42.760 first record. I had a few weeks before we went 1:12:42.840 --> 1:12:45.559 back into the studio again, and that's when I wrote 1:12:45.640 --> 1:12:48.840 bring Me Some Water. And I'm so grateful for that 1:12:48.880 --> 1:12:51.160 because that ended up being, you know, the huge hit. 1:12:51.880 --> 1:12:55.200 And um, I just I just was sitting in my 1:12:55.439 --> 1:12:58.800 living room and it was like it was kind of 1:12:58.800 --> 1:13:03.240 like a blues riff, but it was, you know, I 1:13:03.640 --> 1:13:06.200 sped it up a little bit and dat you know, 1:13:06.360 --> 1:13:10.680 just this bluesy rock riff, simple song. My girlfriend at 1:13:10.680 --> 1:13:13.160 the time was off with somebody else. I was burning 1:13:13.200 --> 1:13:18.360 Alive really easy to write the song. And when we 1:13:18.400 --> 1:13:20.880 went back in the studio, said, hey, I've wrote this song. 1:13:20.920 --> 1:13:22.559 What do you think? And we just bamed. We just 1:13:22.600 --> 1:13:25.599 recorded it and there it was. But let's just go 1:13:25.640 --> 1:13:30.600 back to the inspiration. Your girlfriend? What was too? You know, 1:13:30.680 --> 1:13:36.000 what got you going? Uh? Well? I was, Um, how 1:13:36.000 --> 1:13:38.719 do I say? I was? I was in a non 1:13:38.720 --> 1:13:44.879 monogamous relationship. But we lived together and um for years, 1:13:45.120 --> 1:13:50.320 for four or five years we were together, and um, 1:13:50.560 --> 1:13:53.280 she was wonderful and I really liked her. But we 1:13:53.360 --> 1:13:54.920 both you know, we were young, we were in our 1:13:54.960 --> 1:13:59.160 twenties and you know, experimenting and moving, just meeting other people. 1:13:59.479 --> 1:14:02.880 And she would go off to these uh women's music 1:14:02.920 --> 1:14:05.479 festivals by herself, and you know, I just knew that 1:14:05.520 --> 1:14:08.479 she was because we had this open relationship. It's like, okay, 1:14:08.520 --> 1:14:10.840 I know exactly what you're doing. That's why bring me 1:14:10.920 --> 1:14:12.800 some water? Is you know tonight? I feels so weak, 1:14:12.840 --> 1:14:15.320 but you know, all in love is fair. You know, 1:14:15.360 --> 1:14:17.519 I turned the other cheek. But man, this sucks, you know, 1:14:17.680 --> 1:14:20.439 and and I know you're only human. I haven't got 1:14:20.439 --> 1:14:23.400 talking rome because I've had other girlfriends and all kinds 1:14:23.400 --> 1:14:26.000 of stuff so and so it's just like I don't 1:14:26.080 --> 1:14:29.519 like this. I can't. I can't say I'm totally been 1:14:29.760 --> 1:14:32.360 done wrong because you know I'm doing it too. But 1:14:33.320 --> 1:14:35.400 somebody bring me some more. I'm just I just don't 1:14:35.400 --> 1:14:41.120 like this. Okay, So that's your first hit. Subsequent to that, 1:14:41.720 --> 1:14:44.920 how do you write your songs? Do you wait for 1:14:44.960 --> 1:14:48.080 the inspiration? Do you sit down and say I need 1:14:48.120 --> 1:14:51.680 ten songs? How do you do it? Oh? Well, by 1:14:51.680 --> 1:14:54.679 that point I would write all day long. I would. 1:14:54.800 --> 1:14:57.760 I I had my job at the bar five nights 1:14:57.760 --> 1:15:01.160 a week, but I'd wake up at you know, ten 1:15:01.240 --> 1:15:04.639 eleven noon, and I'd have a couple of hours. I'd 1:15:04.680 --> 1:15:06.320 make myself some food and I would just sit down 1:15:06.320 --> 1:15:08.280 and write, and it was whatever I was going through. 1:15:08.840 --> 1:15:12.320 Sometimes like bring me some water and like the way 1:15:12.360 --> 1:15:15.360 I do and songs like that. I had specific things 1:15:15.360 --> 1:15:18.240 that I got to write about this. Other times it 1:15:18.320 --> 1:15:21.439 was just mining, you know, what was inside? What were 1:15:21.439 --> 1:15:23.839 my questions, what were my desires, what were my pains, 1:15:23.920 --> 1:15:26.479 what were my hopes? You know, and and just writing 1:15:26.520 --> 1:15:30.679 from that. But I wrote all the time. That was then. 1:15:31.479 --> 1:15:35.599 But then as time plays out, how do you write? Oh? Yeah, 1:15:35.920 --> 1:15:42.599 much different now, mama has to make time. Okay, okay, kids, wife, family, managers, everybody. 1:15:42.640 --> 1:15:45.680 I'm working from ten to two, do not you know, 1:15:45.760 --> 1:15:48.360 and disrupt me. Yeah, I used to. I laugh about that. 1:15:48.400 --> 1:15:50.360 I said, Oh my god. I used to have my 1:15:50.680 --> 1:15:53.200 notebooks all over my bed and I just all day long, 1:15:53.320 --> 1:15:55.639 just you know, just wrote, and I had nothing but that. 1:15:56.040 --> 1:16:00.320 Now I have to make time, and you make time. 1:16:00.360 --> 1:16:03.800 It's a start from scratch. Or are you in the 1:16:03.880 --> 1:16:06.000 shower and you get an idea and then have to 1:16:06.120 --> 1:16:08.680 run to the piano, or oh my gosh, why is 1:16:08.720 --> 1:16:12.240 it that the shower is so inspirational? The shower and 1:16:12.640 --> 1:16:15.080 driving the car the two times that I can't stop 1:16:15.120 --> 1:16:20.120 and you know, write anything down is when the best 1:16:20.240 --> 1:16:25.280 inspiration comes. But thank goodness, you know the last decade. 1:16:25.360 --> 1:16:27.720 We have a voice memo now because I can just 1:16:27.840 --> 1:16:30.240 I can just turn that on and sing the idea 1:16:30.280 --> 1:16:31.720 in there and then go back and check it later. 1:16:31.840 --> 1:16:34.479 That's that helps me a lot. I have notes and 1:16:34.560 --> 1:16:39.320 voice memo that I keep all these little pieces of inspiration. 1:16:39.439 --> 1:16:41.880 Is there happening, whether I'm cooking dinner, I'm like, oh 1:16:41.880 --> 1:16:43.600 my god, that's great, I need to uh and I 1:16:43.680 --> 1:16:46.240 just catch it and then when I have the time, 1:16:46.640 --> 1:16:52.800 I'll take all those little pieces and I'll put them together. Okay, 1:16:52.840 --> 1:16:56.360 So is it more constructing the songs out of your 1:16:56.400 --> 1:16:59.200 notes or is it more sitting there with a blank 1:16:59.200 --> 1:17:01.800 piece of paper I need to write X number of 1:17:01.840 --> 1:17:05.920 songs for a new album. M Well, I try. I've 1:17:05.960 --> 1:17:09.519 always tried not to make it a job or make 1:17:09.560 --> 1:17:14.760 it something I had to do. Uh. I'm grateful when 1:17:14.840 --> 1:17:17.960 I get to have it. It's very meditative being by 1:17:18.000 --> 1:17:22.120 myself and hooking up to that creative flow that is 1:17:22.160 --> 1:17:25.960 there and then using my craft to make a song. 1:17:26.200 --> 1:17:29.719 That's that's my happy place, other than being on stage. 1:17:29.760 --> 1:17:32.360 That's that's the other place I love. And if it's 1:17:32.479 --> 1:17:35.679 isn't happening, I go okay, not today, and I walk away. 1:17:35.720 --> 1:17:38.679 I don't ever, I'll never call it I have writer's 1:17:38.680 --> 1:17:42.280 block or anything like that. It's it's it's just very 1:17:42.360 --> 1:17:44.880 you know, this is what I you know I want 1:17:44.880 --> 1:17:49.080 to do and um and so I I enjoy it 1:17:49.120 --> 1:17:53.360 now very much. So okay, so you deliver the album 1:17:53.400 --> 1:17:59.000 to Chris Blackwell, then what happens, Well, then then the 1:17:59.040 --> 1:18:04.040 whole another world starts. I the album. Let's see I 1:18:04.360 --> 1:18:07.719 my I get put on my first tour he Chris album. 1:18:08.000 --> 1:18:13.440 Chris black Will always thought that I would break huge 1:18:13.479 --> 1:18:17.440 in England first, like like Chrissie Hines or Jimmy Hendrix 1:18:17.560 --> 1:18:19.559 or there's something you know He's He thought that that's 1:18:19.560 --> 1:18:22.360 where they were really gonna get me. So he put 1:18:22.400 --> 1:18:26.080 me on as an opening act with a band called 1:18:26.160 --> 1:18:30.880 Martin Stevenson and the Dainties, which was very unknown than two. 1:18:30.920 --> 1:18:33.519 So I'm the opener for an unknown band, so you 1:18:33.640 --> 1:18:37.200 just you can't get lower on the wrong. And yet 1:18:37.320 --> 1:18:41.920 I'm playing these little clubs in you know, I'm going 1:18:41.960 --> 1:18:46.840 to Leads, you know, and and uh Birmingham and Manchester, 1:18:46.960 --> 1:18:50.720 and I'm playing all over England and in the meantime 1:18:50.840 --> 1:18:57.080 the record is just starting to be played and every 1:18:57.080 --> 1:19:01.759 English speaking country and some aren't, like you know, Holland 1:19:01.800 --> 1:19:05.679 and Germany and but Australia and Canada and even America, 1:19:05.960 --> 1:19:12.719 all of them are playing my Bring Me Some Water. England, nothing, Zeros, nothing, 1:19:12.760 --> 1:19:16.920 And it's still to this day nothing, you know. And 1:19:17.160 --> 1:19:19.639 I have like a small cult following there. I can tour, 1:19:19.720 --> 1:19:22.640 I can play London and maybe another city. But it 1:19:23.200 --> 1:19:25.320 was so funny, so they took me off of that 1:19:25.360 --> 1:19:28.160 tour when things started happening in America and I got 1:19:28.200 --> 1:19:30.240 on my own tour and I played. I started playing 1:19:30.280 --> 1:19:32.760 clubs and it was just wonderful. And then I got 1:19:32.880 --> 1:19:36.320 a I got the opening act for Bruce Hornsby when 1:19:36.400 --> 1:19:39.400 his music was just taken off. So I did some 1:19:39.479 --> 1:19:41.920 of that. I came back to Europe. I opened for 1:19:42.000 --> 1:19:45.400 Huey Lewis. That was big, and so you know, I 1:19:45.439 --> 1:19:47.280 got to play the big things, and then my own 1:19:47.600 --> 1:19:50.400 when I would play my own gigs, it went from 1:19:50.479 --> 1:19:53.479 the clubs to theaters and it was just a slow, 1:19:54.320 --> 1:20:00.200 wonderful experience. Well, the record was successful pretty early in 1:20:00.320 --> 1:20:05.439 Los Angeles. How long did you work that record and 1:20:05.479 --> 1:20:06.960 then in the back of your mind you had to 1:20:06.960 --> 1:20:11.360 cut another record? Oh well, I was. I was working 1:20:11.400 --> 1:20:15.280 the record, and I had songs. I was already playing 1:20:15.360 --> 1:20:18.479 songs live that weren't on the first record. I was 1:20:18.479 --> 1:20:21.639 already playing No Souvenirs and Brave and Crazy and skin Deep. 1:20:21.680 --> 1:20:25.920 These songs were part of my act already, and so 1:20:25.960 --> 1:20:27.240 I'm like, when do we get to go back in 1:20:27.320 --> 1:20:30.240 the studio. I'm ready, I'm ready. So we were in 1:20:30.320 --> 1:20:34.560 the studio recording the second or actually I was rehearsing 1:20:34.720 --> 1:20:38.200 to go into the studio when I got the news 1:20:38.200 --> 1:20:42.519 that I had been nominated for Grammy for Best Rock Female, 1:20:43.320 --> 1:20:48.760 and that that performance on that Grammys really sent my 1:20:48.840 --> 1:20:52.840 career into another I just it went crazy after that, 1:20:53.600 --> 1:20:56.479 not crazy, but you know, it really took a big leap, 1:20:56.560 --> 1:20:59.720 and so I went back in the studio, recorded and 1:20:59.800 --> 1:21:06.000 just kept I'm basically toured for eight years straight, just touring, 1:21:06.160 --> 1:21:08.839 going back in the studio for a couple of weeks, 1:21:09.320 --> 1:21:12.240 touring for a year, the album comes out, touring just 1:21:12.360 --> 1:21:16.720 all the way up til my like you know six. 1:21:16.960 --> 1:21:21.240 That was basically the whole thing. So what's the backstory? 1:21:21.280 --> 1:21:24.639 Do you can sleep while I drive? Oh? See? That 1:21:24.840 --> 1:21:28.840 was I wrote that when I was on tour with 1:21:28.880 --> 1:21:34.720 Martin Stevens in the Dainties. I'm in um England for weeks, right, 1:21:34.760 --> 1:21:40.080 and this is England and there is not Yeah, I mean, 1:21:40.320 --> 1:21:44.080 you know the English are are food challenged, right, they 1:21:44.120 --> 1:21:46.880 just they just I mean I can only eat so 1:21:46.920 --> 1:21:50.280 many Indian food dinners, you know. But I really was 1:21:50.320 --> 1:21:53.480 missing America. I was missing American food. I was missing America. 1:21:53.760 --> 1:21:56.880 I was missing my relationship. And I knew, oh, a 1:21:56.920 --> 1:22:00.120 non monogamous relationship where I'm gone for six weeks. I 1:22:00.240 --> 1:22:05.040 know she's with somebody doing something and it you can 1:22:05.040 --> 1:22:08.360 sleep while I drive. Was written in England and Germany 1:22:09.400 --> 1:22:12.080 when I was thinking about a trip I had taken 1:22:12.120 --> 1:22:16.920 in America with my girlfriend where we drove from California 1:22:17.040 --> 1:22:20.439 to New York City and back and I played little 1:22:20.880 --> 1:22:23.960 clubs along the way. This was right when Chris black 1:22:24.000 --> 1:22:25.880 Will found me. But I had booked this little tour 1:22:25.960 --> 1:22:27.840 for the summer because I had to get out of town. 1:22:27.880 --> 1:22:31.880 I was just crazy. So I was now in England 1:22:31.960 --> 1:22:34.720 looking back, saying let's take that trip again. Come on, 1:22:34.800 --> 1:22:38.920 let's let's go do this and you can sleep while 1:22:38.920 --> 1:22:43.680 I drive. It's like yet, I know she's she's you know, 1:22:43.720 --> 1:22:45.880 fading away. So and in the end I'm like, well, 1:22:45.880 --> 1:22:48.360 if you won't take me with you, I'll go before 1:22:48.439 --> 1:22:50.880 night is through and you can sleep while I leave 1:22:50.960 --> 1:22:56.479 and I drive. Okay, that album has some success, not 1:22:56.640 --> 1:23:01.960 as much as the debut album. Third album comes out 1:23:03.000 --> 1:23:08.320 theme Team, They're really first, how do you decide to 1:23:08.360 --> 1:23:11.800 be nude on the cover or the album? That was 1:23:11.920 --> 1:23:14.760 just that was me. It was the same photographer I 1:23:14.760 --> 1:23:17.599 had used for the second album, so I was very 1:23:17.600 --> 1:23:19.840 familiar with the wonderful guy. I don't remember his name 1:23:19.920 --> 1:23:23.559 right now, but um, it was. It was just me 1:23:23.640 --> 1:23:25.920 and him in the studio and we've been taking pictures 1:23:26.280 --> 1:23:31.800 and I'm of course an absolute Springsteen you know, fan fanatic, 1:23:32.080 --> 1:23:34.639 and one of my favorite pictures is him turning around 1:23:34.680 --> 1:23:37.240 and that guitar slinging wright that and so I said, 1:23:37.520 --> 1:23:41.599 I said, dude, I wanna I wanna like kind of 1:23:41.760 --> 1:23:43.600 give a nod to that picture, but I want to 1:23:43.600 --> 1:23:45.479 do my own way. I said, what if I take 1:23:45.560 --> 1:23:49.160 my shirt off? And he's like cool, but you know 1:23:49.240 --> 1:23:51.800 I'm not. You know, it was basically, okay, you turned 1:23:51.800 --> 1:23:53.720 around and I took I took it off, and I 1:23:53.760 --> 1:23:58.160 got I got already and he was, you know, twenty 1:23:58.479 --> 1:24:00.640 behind me taking the picture. So and there was no 1:24:00.640 --> 1:24:02.800 one else there, so there wasn't anything like that, but 1:24:02.840 --> 1:24:06.840 it was my idea. We did like, you know, ten 1:24:06.960 --> 1:24:10.280 shots of of that, and we then we did some 1:24:10.479 --> 1:24:15.519 with my shirt on. And then when he developed the pictures, 1:24:15.560 --> 1:24:18.960 I was like, that's cool, come on, let's do that. 1:24:19.479 --> 1:24:22.439 And I didn't realize that there was a tiny because 1:24:22.439 --> 1:24:24.160 it was it was for C d S, which is 1:24:24.200 --> 1:24:26.240 you know, it was a tiny picture. It wasn't until 1:24:26.280 --> 1:24:29.360 I had a huge poster of it that I realized, oh, 1:24:29.439 --> 1:24:32.200 there's a little bit of my girls showing right, you know, right, 1:24:32.880 --> 1:24:38.240 just just a tiny bit. Many women, almost all women, 1:24:38.560 --> 1:24:45.479 are anxious about being photographed without clothing. Was that's something 1:24:45.479 --> 1:24:51.960 that crossed your mind? Was there retouching the ultimate product? No? No, no, 1:24:52.160 --> 1:24:54.840 we let it. We totally let it fly. And it 1:24:54.920 --> 1:24:57.400 wasn't to me. It was just my back, you know, 1:24:57.520 --> 1:25:01.080 it wasn't. I didn't think of it as like, oh, 1:25:01.400 --> 1:25:04.080 you know, naked e like you know, a playboy or something. 1:25:04.120 --> 1:25:06.360 It was there was some power in it. You know, 1:25:06.439 --> 1:25:09.720 my hair was all long, there was my guitar. I 1:25:09.800 --> 1:25:14.200 just didn't have a shirt on, and um, it seemed 1:25:14.240 --> 1:25:17.040 powerful to me. I remember at the time when it 1:25:17.080 --> 1:25:21.440 came out, there was a moment when Walmart was threatening 1:25:21.479 --> 1:25:24.320 to not put it on its on the shelves, and 1:25:24.360 --> 1:25:27.599 I was like what And I had to like call 1:25:27.720 --> 1:25:30.760 the head of the Walmart and I talked, and I 1:25:30.800 --> 1:25:32.479 think it was a woman and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, 1:25:32.520 --> 1:25:35.160 it's and I calmed her down and they ended up 1:25:35.200 --> 1:25:37.240 selling it. But man, if you don't have Walmart, you're 1:25:37.320 --> 1:25:43.360 you're in trouble. Absolutely. So from the outside, it looks 1:25:43.439 --> 1:25:46.599 like the third album is not as commercially successful as 1:25:46.640 --> 1:25:50.120 the two previous albums. Was that your sensation or it 1:25:50.200 --> 1:25:53.560 wasn't that way? From the inside, it was my sensation. 1:25:53.680 --> 1:25:58.519 At this point, I had UH. I had a certain 1:25:59.080 --> 1:26:04.080 amount of success, but it was still that sort of 1:26:05.439 --> 1:26:09.759 I had not broken through rock RADI I played rock radio, 1:26:10.479 --> 1:26:14.080 but I had no pop airplay. I had UH. And 1:26:14.120 --> 1:26:16.960 then there was this new you know, grunge music was 1:26:17.000 --> 1:26:19.479 coming out, and I'm like and and alternative, and I 1:26:19.520 --> 1:26:22.160 was like, hey, I'm alternative. I'm about as alternatives you 1:26:22.160 --> 1:26:25.559 can get, you know. And I hadn't come out as 1:26:25.640 --> 1:26:29.519 gay yet. But I at that point, after three albums, 1:26:29.560 --> 1:26:33.879 I'm like, okay, I'm done writing genderless and and speaking 1:26:33.920 --> 1:26:37.559 in you know, riddles and things, you know. And and 1:26:37.680 --> 1:26:41.880 I told myself, I'm going to come out publicly on 1:26:41.920 --> 1:26:43.880 this next record. I'm just gonna do it. And I 1:26:44.400 --> 1:26:46.639 had a plan to do it on the Arsenio Hall 1:26:46.680 --> 1:26:50.400 Show because he would actually sit and talk to me. 1:26:50.479 --> 1:26:54.040 He was the only late night talk show hosted otherwise 1:26:54.080 --> 1:26:58.080 you know, Letterman and Leno, you just you. I would 1:26:58.080 --> 1:27:00.679 just sing and and that's it, and I Ar Senior 1:27:00.720 --> 1:27:02.479 would talk to me. So I was like, Okay, when 1:27:02.479 --> 1:27:05.439 the album comes out, I'm going to come out on 1:27:05.479 --> 1:27:09.120 their center hall. Well, in the meantime i'm making the album, 1:27:09.160 --> 1:27:15.639 I'm working with some of the great LGBT leaders, uh, 1:27:15.680 --> 1:27:18.920 you know in our community, Orbis Evade and and Alan 1:27:18.960 --> 1:27:22.040 hergot in these and they keep calling me to do oh, 1:27:22.080 --> 1:27:24.519 come do a benefit for this. And I'm really deep 1:27:24.600 --> 1:27:28.880 in the in the political because AIDS is raging, you know, 1:27:28.960 --> 1:27:34.760 and it's it's this is nineteen and I'm feeling very 1:27:34.760 --> 1:27:38.040 called by the community. And so I helped them. And 1:27:38.040 --> 1:27:44.200 in ninety two I helped uh the Clinton Gore campaign 1:27:44.520 --> 1:27:48.240 and all the the gay communities that was coming together 1:27:48.760 --> 1:27:51.559 to help them get elected. And so I do a 1:27:51.600 --> 1:27:54.400 bunch of benefits and I'm politically involved, and I get 1:27:54.439 --> 1:28:01.840 invited to the Clinton inauguration and so um, when I 1:28:01.920 --> 1:28:04.400 played the night before the inauguration, I do that. I'm 1:28:04.400 --> 1:28:06.639 one of the people in the show. It's Michael Jackson 1:28:06.760 --> 1:28:10.280 and Ray Charles and all these great singers and things, 1:28:10.320 --> 1:28:12.680 and and I'm part of it and I'm loving that. 1:28:12.960 --> 1:28:15.720 And then the next day is the inauguration. And then 1:28:15.760 --> 1:28:20.200 that night at the inaugural balls, and the gay community 1:28:20.439 --> 1:28:23.639 is having a triangle ball. It's the first gay inaugural ball. 1:28:23.760 --> 1:28:26.439 Was the first time we were invited to Washington, and 1:28:26.479 --> 1:28:30.320 so I'm there with my friends and I get handed 1:28:30.320 --> 1:28:32.439 a microphone and I say, oh, I'm just so happy 1:28:32.439 --> 1:28:35.559 to be lesbian, and bam, that was me coming out. 1:28:36.360 --> 1:28:38.920 The next day, you know, the newspapers are all, you know, 1:28:39.000 --> 1:28:41.880 Clinton inauguration, and there's a little tiny little blurb says 1:28:42.240 --> 1:28:45.599 and at the gay triangle ballm Melissa Ethridge comes out. 1:28:46.320 --> 1:28:52.840 And so that started a whole another area of my 1:28:52.920 --> 1:28:56.439 life that people wanted to talk about now. And so 1:28:56.560 --> 1:29:00.880 once my album came out a few months later, I 1:29:00.960 --> 1:29:05.560 had a whole new platform. I was out, I had recorded, 1:29:06.200 --> 1:29:09.280 I had gone to the studio without Um. Kevin wasn't 1:29:09.280 --> 1:29:12.559 going to produce anymore. Kevin had been co producer on 1:29:12.680 --> 1:29:17.519 my first three and UM. We were trying something new. 1:29:17.680 --> 1:29:20.160 Chris Blackwell said, you know, I want to bring in 1:29:20.360 --> 1:29:24.360 Hugh Pagum, who had done Sting and so many great records. 1:29:24.400 --> 1:29:27.280 He was a very successful producer, and it was a 1:29:27.320 --> 1:29:32.479 different experience. We worked at A and M and UM. 1:29:32.479 --> 1:29:37.040 You know, making these these songs, and so when Yes 1:29:37.120 --> 1:29:39.680 I Am comes out, it's kind of okay, it's a 1:29:39.720 --> 1:29:43.479 different ballpark. The record company is ready to make it, 1:29:44.400 --> 1:29:47.840 take a jump, make it, you know, be big. And 1:29:47.960 --> 1:29:53.559 it took over a year for anything to really for 1:29:53.720 --> 1:29:59.200 it all to go. And I never had a top 1:29:59.280 --> 1:30:03.600 ten hit on Yes I Am, but I had the 1:30:03.760 --> 1:30:06.400 record for a long time of the of Come to 1:30:06.439 --> 1:30:10.800 My Window was the held the record for being on 1:30:10.880 --> 1:30:16.200 the charts for the longest time because everyone never played 1:30:16.200 --> 1:30:18.280 it together. You know how you get all the radio 1:30:18.320 --> 1:30:21.120 stations and then you get your number one. I was 1:30:21.160 --> 1:30:24.120 always you know, number twenty or thirty or something, but 1:30:24.439 --> 1:30:28.800 every radio station ended up playing my music. So it's 1:30:28.840 --> 1:30:32.320 this sort of long haul, like Yes I was never 1:30:32.720 --> 1:30:35.640 nominated for a Grammy, you know, the album wasn't. The 1:30:35.680 --> 1:30:38.519 song Come to My Window was, And I did win 1:30:38.640 --> 1:30:42.519 for that, but um, you know, but that was a 1:30:42.600 --> 1:30:45.360 whole new chapter. I had a whole new band because 1:30:45.439 --> 1:30:48.080 Kevin got mad and left, so I put a whole 1:30:48.080 --> 1:30:52.519 new band together. So after that third album, making of 1:30:53.000 --> 1:30:55.240 and the release of Yes I Am, was a whole 1:30:55.240 --> 1:31:05.920 new chapter in my life. Yeah, Okay, whose decision was 1:31:06.000 --> 1:31:08.519 it to be and I used my air quotes here 1:31:08.560 --> 1:31:12.479 people can't see closeted. Prior to the fourth album, that 1:31:12.680 --> 1:31:19.040 was uh yeah, that was sort of you know, the 1:31:19.080 --> 1:31:22.120 first of the late eighties. You you didn't come Nobody 1:31:22.160 --> 1:31:25.360 came out. No one was coming out. You know. It 1:31:25.439 --> 1:31:27.760 wasn't something you did. It was either you were either 1:31:27.840 --> 1:31:31.599 found out there was either a tabloid that that found 1:31:31.600 --> 1:31:33.680 you and did a story. But I wasn't famous enough 1:31:33.720 --> 1:31:38.519 for tabloids to come chasing after me, and um. I 1:31:38.800 --> 1:31:45.240 remember having a meeting with my uh my record company, 1:31:45.240 --> 1:31:47.160 in my management. We're all sitting around to you know, 1:31:47.240 --> 1:31:49.479 a conference table, and they said, well, what are we 1:31:49.479 --> 1:31:52.880 gonna do about this gay thing? And I was like 1:31:53.000 --> 1:31:55.120 this gay. I said, well, I'm not gonna be anything 1:31:55.160 --> 1:31:57.360 but what I am. I'm certainly not going to, you know, 1:31:57.720 --> 1:32:00.920 pretend to date the boy ors thing. That's not gonna happen. 1:32:00.960 --> 1:32:03.559 They said, well, okay, is as long as you don't 1:32:03.640 --> 1:32:07.360 flag wave was what they said. And I was like, okay, 1:32:07.400 --> 1:32:09.760 you know whatever that means. And of course four years 1:32:09.880 --> 1:32:13.080 later I'm flag waving. But you know, at that point, 1:32:13.680 --> 1:32:15.720 by the time I came out, I remember calling them 1:32:15.720 --> 1:32:19.400 all and going okay, well, um, I think I came out, 1:32:19.920 --> 1:32:21.960 so I just want you all to know, and they're like, okay, 1:32:22.000 --> 1:32:24.160 we'll tell publicity, we'll just take it from there, and 1:32:24.200 --> 1:32:27.519 they made it something that worked for me and I 1:32:27.560 --> 1:32:30.479 went from selling less than a million albums to six 1:32:30.560 --> 1:32:35.280 million albums. So it was a great thing. But it's 1:32:35.320 --> 1:32:37.640 not like from you telling the story. It's not like 1:32:37.720 --> 1:32:41.600 you were hiding it. You were involved with the organizations. 1:32:41.840 --> 1:32:47.439 How did you get involved with Clinton's campaign? Right? Well, Um, 1:32:47.479 --> 1:32:50.479 that was that was definitely the gay organizations. And at 1:32:50.479 --> 1:32:54.040 the time, I swear it was sort of like, don't ask, 1:32:54.120 --> 1:32:57.360 don't tell. No one asked me, so I didn't have 1:32:57.439 --> 1:32:59.400 to lie. I didn't and I didn't tell. I didn't 1:32:59.400 --> 1:33:01.320 open up any then going hey I'm gay now and 1:33:01.320 --> 1:33:07.200 I want to talk about it. It just wasn't ever asked. So, Um, 1:33:07.320 --> 1:33:11.839 these organizations, the in g LTF and the Human Rights Campaign, 1:33:11.920 --> 1:33:16.439 all these people were so these great political leaders of 1:33:16.520 --> 1:33:20.280 the of the community, we're calling me in and that's 1:33:20.320 --> 1:33:22.719 when they said, look, you know, this is the first 1:33:23.320 --> 1:33:26.800 presidential candidate that even mentioned gay and lesbian. First time 1:33:27.160 --> 1:33:29.840 we've ever heard it come out of a politician's mouth, 1:33:30.640 --> 1:33:32.840 and he's willing, and he made of course, he made 1:33:32.840 --> 1:33:35.960 the community all these promises and ultimately broke them all. 1:33:36.000 --> 1:33:39.080 But at least he you know, acknowledged that we were 1:33:39.120 --> 1:33:43.840 a voting base that he wanted to uh have on 1:33:43.920 --> 1:33:49.120 his side. So we got out. I I played uh 1:33:49.400 --> 1:33:54.280 many benefits for him and just raised a lot of money. 1:33:54.280 --> 1:33:58.760 Well as a lay person from the outside, he was 1:33:58.880 --> 1:34:03.160 constantly mentioned name you, you know, bringing up what kind 1:34:03.160 --> 1:34:06.160 of relationship did you actually have with him? And after 1:34:06.200 --> 1:34:11.519 he got elected, what was your relationship? Like? Oh, well, 1:34:11.560 --> 1:34:17.400 I saw him. I went to visit in when I 1:34:17.439 --> 1:34:21.000 did Woodstock, so that was I went to visit him 1:34:22.360 --> 1:34:25.720 in the in the White House. And he was just 1:34:25.800 --> 1:34:30.120 such a He was such a it's hard to explain 1:34:30.360 --> 1:34:33.160 he was. And I'm sure you've always heard people talk 1:34:33.200 --> 1:34:36.719 about what a figure he was, what an imposing figure, 1:34:36.720 --> 1:34:40.000 But he was very warm and very Arkansas. So you 1:34:40.080 --> 1:34:43.240 always felt like you were his best friend. But still 1:34:43.320 --> 1:34:46.200 you were just in awe of him, and he held 1:34:46.240 --> 1:34:48.559 that power and he was very much like that. So, 1:34:48.920 --> 1:34:50.559 you know, the couple of times that I did meet him, 1:34:50.560 --> 1:34:53.559 I was still like that, you know, because he just 1:34:53.640 --> 1:34:59.479 had this thing about him, you know, subsequent to Clinton. 1:34:59.760 --> 1:35:03.599 W Actually he's thirty years ago. Now to what degree 1:35:03.640 --> 1:35:06.720 have people called you for political activity and have you 1:35:06.800 --> 1:35:11.720 participated since then? Oh my gosh, Well, I like to 1:35:12.040 --> 1:35:14.760 al Gore, and I became actually closer than I ever 1:35:14.920 --> 1:35:17.679 was with Clinton because I I tell people I helped 1:35:17.680 --> 1:35:20.360 get him elected in two thousand to be president. But 1:35:20.400 --> 1:35:22.760 of course we know what happened, and you know he 1:35:22.960 --> 1:35:27.120 Uh so I helped him with his campaign. I've helped 1:35:27.200 --> 1:35:33.040 oh you know Senators Feinstein and Boxer in California. I've 1:35:34.120 --> 1:35:38.599 I'm you know, any any any politician who who has 1:35:38.920 --> 1:35:42.360 a track record of you know, lgbt Q rights and 1:35:42.640 --> 1:35:45.320 and things like that. I will. I don't do it 1:35:45.360 --> 1:35:48.280 as much anymore because I was doing a lot and 1:35:48.640 --> 1:35:52.479 it sort of waters it down. But um, you know, 1:35:52.560 --> 1:35:55.720 I I definitely worked for Obama. I definitely helped him. 1:35:55.760 --> 1:35:59.479 That was important to me. And um I did some 1:35:59.520 --> 1:36:03.280 work for him lurry, you know, and uh you know. 1:36:03.320 --> 1:36:06.599 And so that brings us right up today. Okay, well, 1:36:06.680 --> 1:36:10.280 you know we're living in this tumultuous time. Is there 1:36:10.320 --> 1:36:14.519 any candidate that you would be aligned with for the 1:36:14.640 --> 1:36:19.519 national stage? Well, as we as we I mean, as 1:36:19.560 --> 1:36:23.559 we come into the next election. Yes, yeah, well, um, 1:36:23.680 --> 1:36:26.120 I do know Gavin Knewsom very well. I see him 1:36:26.160 --> 1:36:29.479 making moves and kind of conceee where that's going. So 1:36:29.520 --> 1:36:31.439 I would definitely support him. He not only has been 1:36:31.560 --> 1:36:36.000 LGBTQ friendly, but he's he's a cannabis friendly, which which 1:36:36.160 --> 1:36:39.400 really we need to move forward on that and um, 1:36:39.439 --> 1:36:43.720 you know, women's rights absolutely, so I would definitely help him. Um. 1:36:43.760 --> 1:36:47.200 You know, at this point, you know, as I look 1:36:47.280 --> 1:36:52.080 at the political parties, you know, I threw my weight 1:36:52.120 --> 1:36:55.120 behind you know, Joe Biden because it was important to 1:36:55.160 --> 1:36:58.680 get him elected, even though he was way behind on 1:36:58.680 --> 1:37:02.960 on cannabis reform and everything. It was just really important 1:37:03.000 --> 1:37:06.600 to get you know too, because I you know, I 1:37:06.680 --> 1:37:09.800 understand politics enough to you know that it's important to 1:37:09.800 --> 1:37:12.800 get that party in power. So and that's kind of 1:37:12.800 --> 1:37:15.559 how I'm approaching it now. A good friend of mine, 1:37:15.600 --> 1:37:19.240 had the Mazier, is running against Andy Harris for Congress 1:37:19.320 --> 1:37:21.680 in Maryland, and so I give her a lot of 1:37:21.680 --> 1:37:23.679 help because she's actually a very close friend of mine. 1:37:24.240 --> 1:37:27.200 But um, yeah, you'll see me out there. I think 1:37:27.200 --> 1:37:30.960 it's important to you so support How did you how 1:37:30.960 --> 1:37:34.200 did you meet al Gore and established such a relationship. 1:37:34.400 --> 1:37:37.880 Oh well, I met him through when he was vice 1:37:37.920 --> 1:37:42.599 president and he he was always of the two. He 1:37:42.680 --> 1:37:46.559 was so very gay friendly. He really it became close 1:37:46.600 --> 1:37:50.679 friends with friends of mine who ran the Human Rights 1:37:51.160 --> 1:37:56.040 Campaign and camp and fund and um. And so then 1:37:56.120 --> 1:38:00.439 after after I helped him, I was on the patreo 1:38:00.520 --> 1:38:02.880 with him for a while after we did that, and 1:38:02.880 --> 1:38:06.400 he lost and then he threw his work into the 1:38:06.640 --> 1:38:12.400 environment and his his climate change. Uh. He called me 1:38:13.600 --> 1:38:16.320 in like two thousand five and and said, look, they're 1:38:16.320 --> 1:38:21.400 they're making a documentary of my slide show on climate change. 1:38:21.960 --> 1:38:24.800 And I said, you know, to myself, I'm like, well 1:38:24.800 --> 1:38:26.920 that'll be shown in some high schools or something, you know, 1:38:27.000 --> 1:38:30.880 and and um. And he wanted a song for it, 1:38:30.920 --> 1:38:32.479 and I said, well, I would be honored. I would 1:38:32.479 --> 1:38:34.120 be honored to write a song for it. So, you know, 1:38:34.680 --> 1:38:36.920 so they put, you know, put it together and they 1:38:36.960 --> 1:38:38.280 sent it to me, and I was like, this is 1:38:38.360 --> 1:38:41.200 really good. And they were called it, you know, an 1:38:41.200 --> 1:38:44.320 Inconvenient Truth, and I was like, well, that's a really 1:38:44.360 --> 1:38:48.680 difficult title to work into a song, but I'll do 1:38:48.720 --> 1:38:51.320 my best. And so I wrote I need to wake 1:38:51.439 --> 1:38:55.160 Up and to my surprise. It ended up winning an Oscar. 1:38:55.200 --> 1:38:57.040 And I ended up winning an Oscar, and that was 1:38:57.080 --> 1:39:00.160 a complete surprise to me. I had no idea that 1:39:00.160 --> 1:39:03.600 that little project was going to do that. So what 1:39:03.760 --> 1:39:06.799 was it like winning an Oscar? Yeah? That was fun. 1:39:07.240 --> 1:39:10.439 That was a dream come true. It was it was 1:39:10.520 --> 1:39:14.040 after I had gone through cancer, because cancer really really 1:39:14.120 --> 1:39:17.120 changed my life and and I just stopped, you know, 1:39:17.240 --> 1:39:20.400 chasing this sort of I need to be the biggest 1:39:20.479 --> 1:39:23.519 rock star. You know. It changed that sort of dream 1:39:23.560 --> 1:39:25.240 into wait, you know, I need to do what makes 1:39:25.280 --> 1:39:28.080 me happy and what fulfills me and what makes me 1:39:28.160 --> 1:39:31.639 grow and and um. And I remember thinking, wow, okay, 1:39:31.640 --> 1:39:34.400 what what are some things that I do want to 1:39:34.600 --> 1:39:37.519 experience that I have? And I remember thinking, well, winning 1:39:37.520 --> 1:39:39.600 an Oscar, that's one that was a childhood you know. 1:39:39.600 --> 1:39:42.720 I watched I always watched the Oscars. That was the 1:39:42.720 --> 1:39:46.160 the height of the entertainment industry was the Oscars. And 1:39:46.240 --> 1:39:50.120 so man, when I got nominated blew my mind and 1:39:50.160 --> 1:39:54.519 I was just I couldn't believe it. And then when 1:39:54.560 --> 1:40:00.360 I finally went there and and and realized, okay, I 1:40:00.400 --> 1:40:05.479 am finally at this place that I always thought was 1:40:05.560 --> 1:40:11.360 like the epitome of of of the entertainment business. I 1:40:11.400 --> 1:40:16.360 realized this is just a TV show, that all this 1:40:16.600 --> 1:40:19.599 is a TV show. Most of these people really don't 1:40:19.640 --> 1:40:22.240 know each other. I knew more people than I thought. 1:40:22.240 --> 1:40:24.240 I mean, by that point, Steven Spielberg was a good 1:40:24.240 --> 1:40:30.479 friend of mine. I knew you, I knew Okay, how 1:40:30.479 --> 1:40:34.519 do you know? Okay, how do you do that? Because 1:40:34.560 --> 1:40:37.920 I knew Tom Hanks, because I knew how did I 1:40:37.960 --> 1:40:41.760 meet Tom Hanks? Uh? We shared the same lawyer, went 1:40:41.800 --> 1:40:45.200 to dinner with it just because I lived in Hollywood, 1:40:45.200 --> 1:40:47.120 and you just you Brad Pitt was a good friend 1:40:47.120 --> 1:40:49.080 of mine because I knew him before he was famous, 1:40:49.120 --> 1:40:53.360 and because I hung out there was this young Hollywood Uh, 1:40:53.400 --> 1:40:55.479 you know, a group of us that always hung out 1:40:55.520 --> 1:40:59.240 together and as our fame group, like Ellen. I knew 1:40:59.280 --> 1:41:01.200 Ellen when she was stand up Rosie when she was 1:41:01.240 --> 1:41:03.559 a stand up. You know these I just knew all 1:41:03.560 --> 1:41:05.960 these people. We've gone through the eighties and the nineties 1:41:06.000 --> 1:41:10.799 together and so um so I knew half the people 1:41:11.240 --> 1:41:14.919 at the Oscars. I knew John Travolta. You know, he's 1:41:14.960 --> 1:41:18.960 the one who announced my name when I won. And 1:41:19.080 --> 1:41:21.400 so at the end of the night, you know I'm 1:41:21.439 --> 1:41:23.960 carrying it's the only place that they'll actually give you 1:41:24.040 --> 1:41:26.479 the award that you could take it with you. And 1:41:26.600 --> 1:41:29.400 it's heavy, and so my arm was sore by the 1:41:29.520 --> 1:41:31.160 end of the night because I was carrying it all night. 1:41:31.160 --> 1:41:32.680 But you're not gonna let go because there it is 1:41:32.680 --> 1:41:34.920 as my oscar. Hey, you know. And I had a 1:41:35.000 --> 1:41:39.000 great time. It was a wonderful evening. You know, I 1:41:39.040 --> 1:41:42.760 smoked a joint with Sean Penn and Harry Dean Stanton 1:41:43.040 --> 1:41:45.799 and Bill Maher. You know, I just had this great 1:41:46.400 --> 1:41:49.599 experience and that was that was like, look I did 1:41:49.640 --> 1:41:52.800 that that, you know, let's bucket list off. That's great. 1:41:53.000 --> 1:41:55.639 But I realized it's not really a place. It's it's 1:41:55.640 --> 1:41:59.800 a TV show. Where's the oscar right now? Oh, it's 1:41:59.800 --> 1:42:02.640 an office on my on my shelf next to my 1:42:02.680 --> 1:42:09.000 two Grammys. Okay. What was Kevin McCormick angry about. Well, 1:42:09.000 --> 1:42:11.479 he was angry because, um, he didn't get to produce 1:42:11.520 --> 1:42:15.040 the fourth record. And he was angry because Chris Blackwell 1:42:15.240 --> 1:42:18.599 and Denny Cordell, who was the executive producer of the album, 1:42:19.720 --> 1:42:23.519 replaced all his parts with Pino Palladino coming in playing bass. 1:42:23.520 --> 1:42:26.280 Who's the greatest bass player in the world. And that 1:42:26.680 --> 1:42:31.080 made him mad, and so he went away. Okay, he'd 1:42:31.080 --> 1:42:35.040 already recorded the parts and then you know, re recorded them. Yes, 1:42:35.760 --> 1:42:41.200 it was it was like, that's the businessman, that's the business. 1:42:42.760 --> 1:42:45.280 And what was it like working with you, Pagum And 1:42:45.360 --> 1:42:48.680 what did he add? Oh? He was great. He was 1:42:48.720 --> 1:42:52.920 so English, he was so uh. You know, he would 1:42:52.920 --> 1:42:57.839 ask for his tuna tuna salad. He would complain because 1:42:58.360 --> 1:43:00.519 you know, they bring in hot water for tea and 1:43:00.520 --> 1:43:02.400 he's like, no, no, no, you bring in a kettle. 1:43:02.479 --> 1:43:05.760 I need it boiled. You know. It was very English 1:43:05.800 --> 1:43:10.760 and um really brilliant with sound, just really creating a 1:43:10.840 --> 1:43:14.360 live sound. And he let me. He did. He took 1:43:14.400 --> 1:43:19.760 my acoustic um Ovation guitar, which is not the best acoustic. 1:43:19.840 --> 1:43:23.360 It's great electric, it's great on stage, but acoustically, you know, 1:43:23.439 --> 1:43:25.840 there's you know, your Martins and your Gibsons sound better. 1:43:25.840 --> 1:43:29.760 But he he made that Ovation sound wonderful. He took 1:43:29.760 --> 1:43:32.400 the time. He took the time to find exactly the 1:43:32.520 --> 1:43:35.960 right microphone. He came in one day and just microphones 1:43:35.960 --> 1:43:38.160 were lined up and we just tried one at a 1:43:38.240 --> 1:43:41.599 time to see which work. He was very meticulous and 1:43:41.680 --> 1:43:45.840 he loved music. How did you end up playing an 1:43:45.840 --> 1:43:52.320 Ovation which first had a bad reputation, then the reputation evolved. Yeah, well, 1:43:52.400 --> 1:43:55.040 you know it was made from helicopter parts, you know, 1:43:55.600 --> 1:44:00.599 but it fits. I was a young woman, young girl. 1:44:00.720 --> 1:44:03.200 I was fourteen when I played my first one, and 1:44:03.240 --> 1:44:05.400 I was in love with twelve string guitar. So I 1:44:05.439 --> 1:44:08.840 had bought a guild which was as big as me 1:44:09.479 --> 1:44:12.160 and I couldn't I could barely get my arms around it, 1:44:12.200 --> 1:44:15.000 and it was certainly really hard to play. And so 1:44:15.120 --> 1:44:17.920 I took it back to the guitar store and that 1:44:18.000 --> 1:44:19.240 I brought it from, and I knew the guy was 1:44:19.240 --> 1:44:22.080 a local, you know, leven Worth store, and he said, well, 1:44:22.080 --> 1:44:25.760 there's this new guitar called the Ovation guitar. And he 1:44:26.560 --> 1:44:30.439 put one in my lap, and it's rounded back and 1:44:30.439 --> 1:44:32.720 it had a smaller neck, and I went, this is 1:44:32.720 --> 1:44:35.719 a guitar I can play and I could just plug 1:44:35.760 --> 1:44:38.479 it straight in. It was electric, so I could use 1:44:38.479 --> 1:44:41.280 it in my band. So it was perfect and I 1:44:41.320 --> 1:44:48.320 have always played one since then. Okay, I was totally 1:44:48.360 --> 1:44:51.160 aware of you, but I knew the fourth album was 1:44:51.200 --> 1:44:55.519 gonna go. This is significant from my perspective. I'm interested 1:44:55.560 --> 1:44:59.599 in your perspective. You went on Letterman and you played 1:44:59.840 --> 1:45:03.639 m the only One, and you were you know, your 1:45:03.680 --> 1:45:06.600 foot was stopping in time. It was like you really 1:45:06.720 --> 1:45:08.639 meant it. It It was mind blow we I've only seen, 1:45:08.960 --> 1:45:12.000 said O'Connor did her theme song from In the Name 1:45:12.040 --> 1:45:15.840 of the Father on Letterman the Thief of My Heart 1:45:15.960 --> 1:45:18.880 or something like that. Those are the two best performances 1:45:18.920 --> 1:45:23.519 I ever saw on So was that just another night 1:45:23.640 --> 1:45:26.680 or did you feel something too? Ah? Well, Letterman had 1:45:26.680 --> 1:45:29.720 always been a supporter of mine. He was a fan 1:45:29.800 --> 1:45:31.800 of mine, and so he was the first one I 1:45:31.880 --> 1:45:34.639 ever played, Bring Me Some Water. He was the first 1:45:34.720 --> 1:45:38.280 national television show I ever had, was the old one 1:45:38.320 --> 1:45:40.800 he had before he you know, the late, Late, Late 1:45:40.840 --> 1:45:43.800 Show or whatever he did. Yeah, And so when I 1:45:43.880 --> 1:45:49.400 finally played I'm the only One, I was excited. I 1:45:49.439 --> 1:45:52.840 was excited because I loved that song. That song was, 1:45:53.320 --> 1:45:57.519 that was rock, that was me, and I just knew. 1:45:57.720 --> 1:46:00.080 I was like, that's why we thought that was to 1:46:00.160 --> 1:46:02.080 be the first single. And well it was the first single, 1:46:02.760 --> 1:46:06.760 but it didn't catch on and people started playing come 1:46:06.800 --> 1:46:08.640 to My Window, and so they switched to come to 1:46:08.680 --> 1:46:11.839 My Window. And then later released I'm the Only One again. 1:46:12.560 --> 1:46:15.120 But first I thought because I was like, that's that's 1:46:15.120 --> 1:46:16.920 got to be the song. That's the great, you know, 1:46:16.960 --> 1:46:19.559 I love that people are gonna love it. And so 1:46:19.640 --> 1:46:22.280 I went on Letterman and it was just I just 1:46:22.320 --> 1:46:25.120 wanted to grab people by the throat and go, you're 1:46:25.160 --> 1:46:28.280 gonna remember this, and and I was very excited. I 1:46:28.320 --> 1:46:31.960 knew it was a big time and I've recently actually 1:46:31.960 --> 1:46:34.400 on YouTube I saw that performance again and I was like, man, 1:46:34.439 --> 1:46:37.839 I I was serious. I really I'm meant to whatever 1:46:37.880 --> 1:46:41.200 I was doing. Okay, you work with you, then you 1:46:41.280 --> 1:46:43.360 end up working with John Shanks. How do you end 1:46:43.439 --> 1:46:47.360 up working with John Shanks? Ah, well, let's go back 1:46:47.400 --> 1:46:50.280 to the first album, and let's go back to Kevin McCormick, 1:46:50.840 --> 1:46:54.479 who I went to go see Kevin McCormick's band at 1:46:54.520 --> 1:46:59.080 the time in he's playing and his band is called 1:46:59.120 --> 1:47:04.120 the Uninvited and the band consists of him, Fritz Luik 1:47:04.280 --> 1:47:07.920 on drums, who I eventually end up playing with. Craig 1:47:07.960 --> 1:47:12.280 Cramp didn't tour with me. I Fritz played with me, 1:47:12.640 --> 1:47:14.559 and so Fritz was on my second and third and 1:47:14.640 --> 1:47:18.040 fourth album. He plays on all those albums and Scott 1:47:18.080 --> 1:47:22.360 Thurston who ends up being a Tom Petty in the 1:47:23.040 --> 1:47:28.719 in the UH you know those guys, and UM, and 1:47:29.080 --> 1:47:31.720 the guitar player is this kid from l A named 1:47:31.800 --> 1:47:34.880 John Shanks. And so for my very first tour in 1:47:36.880 --> 1:47:39.479 I I saw John and I went, I want him 1:47:39.479 --> 1:47:43.120 to be UH in my band. So I tell people 1:47:43.240 --> 1:47:47.400 I discovered John Shanks at Madam Wong's right, Madam WANs 1:47:47.120 --> 1:47:50.320 in Santa Monica. He comes, he does my first tour 1:47:50.439 --> 1:47:54.519 with me, and he had some troubles, him and Kevin 1:47:54.520 --> 1:47:56.240 and but he had some trouble so he went away. 1:47:56.800 --> 1:48:00.360 And then when Kevin left and and I needed to 1:48:00.360 --> 1:48:04.679 put a new band together for the Yes I M tour, 1:48:05.640 --> 1:48:09.680 I run into John Shanks at some little place and 1:48:09.760 --> 1:48:12.479 he's he's got his life together, he's trying to get 1:48:12.520 --> 1:48:18.320 back into the business. He's playing for UM for a 1:48:19.320 --> 1:48:22.080 singer that I don't know, but he was kind of 1:48:22.080 --> 1:48:24.280 playing with someone and I said, well, I'm about to 1:48:24.320 --> 1:48:28.120 go on tour, come be my guitar player again. So 1:48:28.240 --> 1:48:33.800 from nine three to about two thousand, it's about two 1:48:33.800 --> 1:48:38.240 thousand one, he was my guitar player. He played, he 1:48:38.280 --> 1:48:40.839 did my whole Yes I Am tour Your Little Secret, 1:48:41.240 --> 1:48:44.880 and then he then when it came time to do 1:48:45.240 --> 1:48:49.040 my Breakdown album, I tried to work with somebody and 1:48:49.040 --> 1:48:54.639 it didn't work, and John said, look, let me produce. 1:48:54.680 --> 1:48:57.480 I've been doing, you know, a couple of little projects, 1:48:58.000 --> 1:49:01.560 but let me produce your album. So I said okay, 1:49:02.400 --> 1:49:09.200 And Breakdown was his first full album. So you did 1:49:09.280 --> 1:49:12.200 discover him. I did totally. And from that he just 1:49:12.240 --> 1:49:15.120 went off. He was he's winning Grammys, he's doing stuff 1:49:15.160 --> 1:49:17.360 and and him and I have worked together on and 1:49:17.400 --> 1:49:21.040 off many many of my He did Fearless Love, He's 1:49:21.080 --> 1:49:24.479 did songs on Lucky, you know, He's done a whole 1:49:24.560 --> 1:49:28.679 lot of stuff with me, Medicine Show. Yeah. Okay. So 1:49:28.840 --> 1:49:33.680 ultimately Ellen comes out, But prior to that and for 1:49:33.840 --> 1:49:41.920 years thereafter, you are the face of gay in America. 1:49:42.360 --> 1:49:46.719 Is that a good thing or a not good thing? Personally? Well, 1:49:46.760 --> 1:49:55.599 personally it was, it was good for a while in that. Um. 1:49:56.120 --> 1:49:58.439 The part that was hard is that for a couple 1:49:58.439 --> 1:50:02.240 of years, that's all I talked about. Any interview was 1:50:02.280 --> 1:50:05.400 about being gay, and they were asking me questions that 1:50:05.520 --> 1:50:07.880 everyone wanted to know about being gay, because no one 1:50:08.000 --> 1:50:10.040 was willing to sit down and talk to anybody about 1:50:10.040 --> 1:50:15.839 being gay. And so it was like you know, Rolling Stone, uh, 1:50:15.920 --> 1:50:19.920 you know, every newspaper of every town, everything would talk 1:50:19.960 --> 1:50:22.920 to me. And then I would finally do like you know, 1:50:23.000 --> 1:50:26.120 the Advocate that out magazine, these gay publications. So I 1:50:26.200 --> 1:50:30.679 talked about being gay for years and it was like, okay, 1:50:30.760 --> 1:50:33.000 you know, I'm a musician too, we can talk about 1:50:33.040 --> 1:50:36.240 the music too, and the goodness. You know, when Ellen 1:50:36.280 --> 1:50:39.680 finally came out and it started to the other people did, 1:50:39.720 --> 1:50:41.599 it was like, okay, I'm not the only one anymore. 1:50:42.120 --> 1:50:46.679 And and then it it changed. And once I actually 1:50:47.000 --> 1:50:50.719 went through cancer in two thousand four, then I started 1:50:50.760 --> 1:50:54.599 talking about cancer. So I had cancer, gay and music. 1:50:54.640 --> 1:50:58.519 And now you know, cancer, gay music, cannabis. And now 1:50:58.560 --> 1:51:01.800 it's cancer, gay music, cannabis, opioid addiction. You know. So 1:51:02.040 --> 1:51:04.479 I have lots of things that I can talk about. 1:51:04.520 --> 1:51:06.559 But for a while there it was it was just gay. 1:51:06.560 --> 1:51:09.040 And it what got really hard is when I went 1:51:09.080 --> 1:51:11.559 through my first divorce, because I was, you know, being 1:51:11.560 --> 1:51:15.160 held up as this gay you know, this perfect relationship 1:51:15.240 --> 1:51:17.800 and we had children and then it all went away. 1:51:17.800 --> 1:51:21.559 It was bad, So I didn't that was hard. You know, 1:51:21.680 --> 1:51:26.200 the story that came out was that you were with 1:51:26.240 --> 1:51:30.240 the therapist. And Julie said, well, I'm not really feeling 1:51:30.240 --> 1:51:33.519 the gay thing? Is that? Is that true? It was 1:51:33.800 --> 1:51:38.240 part of it. She was this kind of an unhappy person. Um. 1:51:38.280 --> 1:51:43.360 She did go on to marry a man and uh, 1:51:43.640 --> 1:51:47.880 spend most of that in straight relationships. Although you know, 1:51:47.960 --> 1:51:54.080 I would say she's bisexual. She um, yeah, And I'm 1:51:54.200 --> 1:51:57.200 less concerned what was going through her head? This was 1:51:57.520 --> 1:52:01.360 going through your head to what the we were you shocked? 1:52:01.840 --> 1:52:04.720 And were you shocked in the therapist? Did you see 1:52:04.760 --> 1:52:08.160 it coming? What was your Yeah? Yeah, she yeah, I 1:52:08.200 --> 1:52:11.600 did see it coming. She Oh, you know where do 1:52:11.600 --> 1:52:14.040 you think? So songs like I'm the only One you 1:52:14.080 --> 1:52:19.439 know came from and and you know, and someone told 1:52:19.439 --> 1:52:21.599 me you lose them how you get them? And I 1:52:21.680 --> 1:52:24.120 met her when she was married. She was married to 1:52:24.160 --> 1:52:27.519 a movie star. I met her that way. I'm married 1:52:27.520 --> 1:52:31.600 to a man, you know, And so now I know, oh, 1:52:31.439 --> 1:52:34.639 you're not ever going to change these people. And so 1:52:34.720 --> 1:52:37.720 she kind of had that thing going on where she 1:52:37.760 --> 1:52:41.200 was always looking somewhere else and then some something else, 1:52:41.280 --> 1:52:43.799 and you know, it would be good for a few months, 1:52:43.840 --> 1:52:46.439 and then oh something would happen, and and you know, 1:52:46.479 --> 1:52:48.880 I was on the road a lot, and that was 1:52:48.920 --> 1:52:53.320 just gonna it's it's just And then I thought when 1:52:53.320 --> 1:52:56.400 we had kids that I was like, okay, so you're 1:52:56.439 --> 1:52:58.559 you're you're done with all that, right, We're having kids 1:52:58.560 --> 1:53:01.360 and we're gonna be together. Oh yeah. Well after we 1:53:01.400 --> 1:53:04.400 had kids, of course, now she's not happy. She's not happy. 1:53:04.800 --> 1:53:08.040 And when someone's not happy, you're just okay. There's nothing 1:53:08.080 --> 1:53:11.880 I can't make her happy, you know. So how did 1:53:11.960 --> 1:53:17.080 you discover you had cancer? Ah? Well, you know, after 1:53:17.160 --> 1:53:21.920 that breakup, that was really depressing. I got and you know, 1:53:21.960 --> 1:53:25.400 I I was it was just it was just hard. 1:53:25.880 --> 1:53:28.720 And music was changing. It's just two thousand, you know, 1:53:29.400 --> 1:53:32.600 everything's changing. Everything seems to be just falling apart. In 1:53:32.640 --> 1:53:34.719 this family that I thought I had, all of a sudden, 1:53:34.800 --> 1:53:37.799 I only see them half the time. It was just horrible. 1:53:37.880 --> 1:53:41.760 I'm I'm really depressed. And I start a new relationship 1:53:41.800 --> 1:53:44.040 with a totally gay person, you know, and I'm like, okay, 1:53:44.120 --> 1:53:46.920 I'm doing the right thing now, and but I'm I'm 1:53:46.960 --> 1:53:53.000 not happy now. I've I've lost all my Mojoe and everything, 1:53:53.080 --> 1:54:02.160 and and um, I uh, I actually I um I had. 1:54:02.200 --> 1:54:05.840 I started right before I was diagnosed. I started, uh 1:54:05.960 --> 1:54:09.479 smoking cannabis, I had. I had never really done it much. 1:54:09.520 --> 1:54:11.200 I did it socially a little bit of my life, 1:54:11.200 --> 1:54:14.160 but I I started like doing it every weekend and 1:54:14.200 --> 1:54:16.800 it was really fun and I enjoyed myself on it. 1:54:17.439 --> 1:54:20.320 Just stopped for a second. Were you a drinker? No, 1:54:20.720 --> 1:54:23.240 I was not a drinker. You were. You were basically clean. 1:54:23.800 --> 1:54:28.120 So what was this transition into smoking cannabis on the weekends. Well, 1:54:28.200 --> 1:54:32.040 my my partner at the time was I was like, yeah, 1:54:32.160 --> 1:54:34.560 I like this as something someone had act actually given 1:54:34.600 --> 1:54:37.920 me as a gift, a whole bunch. And I was like, okay, 1:54:37.920 --> 1:54:39.800 well let's once, you know, when the kids go to 1:54:39.800 --> 1:54:42.800 the other house, let's try this. And I had so 1:54:42.880 --> 1:54:45.200 much fun and it was like this is great. And 1:54:45.200 --> 1:54:47.800 so after a few weeks um I said, have you 1:54:47.840 --> 1:54:52.040 ever done, like, uh, pot brownies or cookies or something? 1:54:52.080 --> 1:54:54.200 And she's like no, And I'm like, let's bake cookies. 1:54:54.200 --> 1:54:57.280 And she's a baker, and so she we end up, oh, 1:54:57.280 --> 1:54:59.160 well we're supposed to put this much in. Well, if 1:54:59.160 --> 1:55:00.920 that much is good, we'll let's put a bunch of 1:55:01.240 --> 1:55:05.640 So she makes these amazing cookies and I like eat 1:55:05.760 --> 1:55:09.360 three of them because they're delicious. And I have what 1:55:09.920 --> 1:55:14.320 I now call a heroic dose of cannabis. And I 1:55:14.920 --> 1:55:17.080 am one of those people. You hear them all that, 1:55:17.160 --> 1:55:19.320 you hear recordings of people who are like, I'm dying. 1:55:19.560 --> 1:55:21.880 I've taken too much, you know, I'm too high and 1:55:21.920 --> 1:55:26.560 I'm dying. Because it was this mind blowing, mind altering journeys. 1:55:26.600 --> 1:55:32.200 So I have this huge spiritual awakening, a light, you know, 1:55:32.360 --> 1:55:35.440 and and I started going, wait a minute, my life 1:55:35.480 --> 1:55:38.400 is totally not what I think it is. And a 1:55:38.400 --> 1:55:43.760 few weeks later, I'm diagnosed with cancer. So it's like 1:55:45.440 --> 1:55:48.920 I I become spiritually a where I have this new 1:55:49.000 --> 1:55:52.280 sort of outlook on life. And then oh, I've got 1:55:52.280 --> 1:55:56.360 this disease, this this thing. And so I walked through 1:55:56.400 --> 1:56:00.720 the whole process of of cancer. I stop touring, I 1:56:00.720 --> 1:56:03.720 stop everything, my whole life stops for the first time 1:56:04.560 --> 1:56:10.360 in what thirty years, you know, and I I find 1:56:11.640 --> 1:56:16.040 this all my answers sort of, all all my inspiration 1:56:16.160 --> 1:56:20.880 comes back, just roaring back after after I really I 1:56:20.920 --> 1:56:25.560 go through cancer. I I do about five chemo treatments. 1:56:25.560 --> 1:56:27.480 I'm bald. I sing on the grammys. I have this 1:56:27.840 --> 1:56:34.320 wonderful experience, and I realized that my health is absolutely 1:56:34.360 --> 1:56:38.800 the most important thing, and my health it has everything 1:56:38.880 --> 1:56:42.520 to do with my happiness. So my happiness is the 1:56:42.560 --> 1:56:46.040 most important thing. And I start walking this journey with that, 1:56:46.120 --> 1:56:51.160 and I start enjoying cannabis so much more regularly. It 1:56:51.520 --> 1:56:56.720 like gets me through chemotherapy. It helps me with pain 1:56:56.760 --> 1:57:00.600 and depression and appetite. And I through that and I 1:57:00.680 --> 1:57:05.440 become a huge plant medicine advocate and I still am. 1:57:05.160 --> 1:57:08.680 I'm I'm very and it's part of what Ethics Foundation 1:57:08.840 --> 1:57:14.880 is is um we we helped research for people to 1:57:15.000 --> 1:57:18.720 get people off of opioids, and you know your heroines 1:57:18.760 --> 1:57:23.280 and methodones and thing they by using a nature, nature 1:57:23.320 --> 1:57:30.800 based medicines and plant medicine. So that so the the 1:57:30.880 --> 1:57:33.800 cannabis and the cancer sort of hand in hand. Was 1:57:33.840 --> 1:57:37.600 this whole life changing experience for me. How did you 1:57:37.840 --> 1:57:42.840 literally find out did you find a lump? No? I 1:57:42.880 --> 1:57:48.480 had actually just had a physical a few months before 1:57:48.520 --> 1:57:50.880 and everything was fine, and I was out on tour 1:57:50.920 --> 1:57:53.600 and it was really really not happy. And I was 1:57:53.680 --> 1:57:57.320 in the shower in the morning and actually felt it 1:57:57.360 --> 1:58:00.839 on my breast and went, wow, that wasn't there yesterday. 1:58:00.880 --> 1:58:03.520 It felt like I didn't hadn't noticed it. And it 1:58:03.640 --> 1:58:06.720 was a lump. It was a big lump too. And 1:58:06.760 --> 1:58:08.480 then I just went to the doctor and I was like, 1:58:09.080 --> 1:58:11.880 what's this and they were like, I think I know 1:58:11.920 --> 1:58:15.600 what that is. And it was wonderful. The the woman 1:58:15.600 --> 1:58:20.360 who biopsy did this doctor I hadn't realized she had 1:58:20.400 --> 1:58:22.800 had a double mestecht to me and she goes, look, 1:58:22.840 --> 1:58:24.520 you're gonna be fine. This is the worst that can 1:58:24.560 --> 1:58:26.880 happen to you. And she showed me her double mistech 1:58:26.960 --> 1:58:29.520 to me and I was like, okay, great, I'm gonna 1:58:29.520 --> 1:58:31.920 be fine. I'm gonna die, so let's, you know, let's 1:58:31.920 --> 1:58:35.960 move through this and see what happens. So you never Okay, 1:58:36.000 --> 1:58:40.040 I have cancer and I got it subsequent to me 1:58:40.080 --> 1:58:43.440 getting it twelve thirteen years ago. A lot of my 1:58:43.520 --> 1:58:45.640 friends have got it. I would say I got it 1:58:45.680 --> 1:58:48.160 early with the air quotes. But the first thing that 1:58:48.240 --> 1:58:52.880 happens is, and I'm good, is that you realize you're 1:58:52.880 --> 1:58:55.880 not gonna be here forever. You're gonna die. Yeah, we 1:58:56.160 --> 1:58:59.000 are mortal, Yes, we are mortal. Where we are, We're 1:58:59.040 --> 1:59:01.000 all gonna die. That's something and and for us to 1:59:01.080 --> 1:59:04.520 spend our whole lives afraid of when we're gonna die 1:59:05.520 --> 1:59:08.640 is ridiculous. That life is worth living every we're all 1:59:08.640 --> 1:59:12.080 gonna die. Okay, that's a given. So let's just let's 1:59:12.080 --> 1:59:15.320 just leave that over here and then be in the moment, 1:59:15.400 --> 1:59:18.480 be right now. And being in the moment is a 1:59:18.560 --> 1:59:22.480 huge healer for all the worries I think. I think 1:59:22.480 --> 1:59:28.320 my cancer came from worry, from sadness, from uh, my 1:59:28.480 --> 1:59:32.920 eating habits and and so much of of you know, 1:59:33.560 --> 1:59:37.640 putting myself last, putting everybody else first, and trying to 1:59:37.840 --> 1:59:40.400 fix everybody else. And finally when I just pulled that 1:59:40.480 --> 1:59:43.040 all back into myself, that's when I really found health 1:59:43.080 --> 1:59:48.440 and power. Now, you're a very outgoing, verbal person, magnetic, 1:59:49.520 --> 1:59:53.040 but you mentioned and of course anybody would be depressed 1:59:53.080 --> 1:59:56.960 with what you went through with those times. Are you 1:59:57.080 --> 2:00:00.280 generally prone to depression or you've always upbeat like this? 2:00:01.400 --> 2:00:05.480 I'm upbeat like this is my natural state. I love. 2:00:05.600 --> 2:00:09.200 I believe in the goodness of the world. I believe 2:00:09.440 --> 2:00:13.520 in in happiness. I believe that the point of living 2:00:13.680 --> 2:00:18.360 is to find happiness and joy. I believe joy is 2:00:18.360 --> 2:00:25.160 is is a human uh blessing in a state that 2:00:25.160 --> 2:00:29.800 that one is in and and is where health and 2:00:30.720 --> 2:00:35.000 longevity starts. Okay, let's go back to something you said 2:00:35.080 --> 2:00:38.960 earlier about the change in the music business really started 2:00:38.960 --> 2:00:45.480 with Napster the year two thousand. As time goes by, 2:00:46.280 --> 2:00:50.160 a lot of stuff changes. The heritage artists from the seventies, 2:00:50.200 --> 2:00:54.160 they put out new albums, crickets, the most famous people, 2:00:54.240 --> 2:00:59.320 most of them stop making records. Then as we ultimate 2:00:59.320 --> 2:01:02.080 believe all to Spotify. A lot of them are and 2:01:02.360 --> 2:01:06.360 a lot of people who made it before or anti Spotify, 2:01:06.400 --> 2:01:09.480 But all of a sudden we wake up and rock 2:01:10.160 --> 2:01:14.360 is not the dominant format it was previously. What are 2:01:14.400 --> 2:01:20.560 your thoughts about all this, Well, having been a musician 2:01:20.640 --> 2:01:27.240 through all of it, I I have seen how I 2:01:27.400 --> 2:01:32.000 reach people change, you know. I no longer there's no 2:01:32.080 --> 2:01:37.360 there's no rock radio. There's not even record companies really 2:01:37.400 --> 2:01:40.640 anymore that do that. They're all focused on fifteen year olds, 2:01:40.640 --> 2:01:43.360 you know, and where they can sell this product. And 2:01:43.360 --> 2:01:45.520 then I realized that, oh I was a product to them, 2:01:45.560 --> 2:01:50.960 and I'm I like, when we started this conversation, it's 2:01:51.400 --> 2:01:56.320 I can reach my fans directly, and I know and 2:01:56.440 --> 2:02:00.640 my whole goal has been to be an artist that 2:02:00.720 --> 2:02:04.240 when they hear I'm coming to town, they're like, oh, 2:02:04.280 --> 2:02:08.000 that's a good show. I want to go see that. 2:02:08.080 --> 2:02:11.120 I've either seen it before or I've heard that this 2:02:11.240 --> 2:02:17.080 is a good time. And if I have that reputation 2:02:17.160 --> 2:02:22.120 as a live artist, you can't replicate that. So I 2:02:22.160 --> 2:02:28.880 think in this business the winners are the rolling stones. No, 2:02:29.080 --> 2:02:32.000 they're not making any new records and we're not hearing 2:02:32.040 --> 2:02:38.240 them on the radio, but they are selling out you know, stadiums. Uh, 2:02:38.280 --> 2:02:42.760 these artists. Because you cannot replicate live music on a 2:02:42.800 --> 2:02:46.200 computer in your bedroom. You know you can. You can 2:02:46.240 --> 2:02:48.920 make songs that people like to hear, and you can 2:02:48.960 --> 2:02:51.840 make moods and you can do that, and that's all good. 2:02:53.760 --> 2:02:58.800 It's the longevity lives in the artists that connect with people, 2:02:59.240 --> 2:03:05.440 that treat them coming to see them as as a gift. 2:03:05.480 --> 2:03:07.960 I'm so grateful every audience that comes to see me, 2:03:08.400 --> 2:03:10.760 but every audience I play for, no matter where, no 2:03:10.760 --> 2:03:14.440 matter how small, those I want those people to want 2:03:14.480 --> 2:03:17.560 to come back and see me. So that's my career, 2:03:17.760 --> 2:03:20.560 is the live performing and and I get I still 2:03:20.560 --> 2:03:23.440 get to make albums. I still get to to make music. 2:03:23.840 --> 2:03:27.600 And release it and have new things and presented. I still, 2:03:27.920 --> 2:03:30.120 you know, I'll present that. Of course every show, I'm 2:03:30.160 --> 2:03:33.640 playing my my hits, because you know, we all want 2:03:33.640 --> 2:03:35.520 to see come to my window and wave our arms 2:03:35.560 --> 2:03:38.880 and stuff and and that's part of it. But I 2:03:39.480 --> 2:03:41.600 my job is to entertain you and for you to 2:03:41.680 --> 2:03:44.240 leave and go, oh, that was great. I can't wait 2:03:44.280 --> 2:03:48.680 to see it again. So you're still just as motivated 2:03:48.720 --> 2:03:52.680 to record music. Yeah, it's different. And I'm actually in 2:03:52.680 --> 2:03:54.400 a place right now where I'm in a in a 2:03:54.480 --> 2:03:58.640 writing cycle where I am writing. But I do have 2:03:58.680 --> 2:04:01.160 the question of wow, do I just release one song 2:04:01.200 --> 2:04:05.600 at a time? Now? Is the album actually dead? You know? 2:04:05.840 --> 2:04:09.840 And I have realized that I have a choice. I 2:04:09.840 --> 2:04:14.520 can I can do ten songs and put out an album, 2:04:14.640 --> 2:04:16.960 or I can do four and put out an EP. 2:04:17.200 --> 2:04:20.440 I can just release one. I have all these choices. 2:04:20.880 --> 2:04:23.920 So as I'm writing, I'm gonna see my preference is 2:04:23.960 --> 2:04:26.480 to do an album because I think I think my 2:04:26.760 --> 2:04:30.120 my fans love to get a collection of songs that 2:04:30.240 --> 2:04:32.880 represent what I'm going through and at the times, and 2:04:33.000 --> 2:04:34.880 something they can sit and listen to and have an 2:04:34.880 --> 2:04:39.200 hour with, you know. So Deborah Tan and this is 2:04:39.240 --> 2:04:42.440 not a pop psychologist is a degreed person. She wrote 2:04:42.480 --> 2:04:46.200 a book you just don't understand difference between men and women, 2:04:46.560 --> 2:04:48.960 and you talked about men are always needing a career 2:04:49.080 --> 2:04:52.520 arc that goes up, where women can go up and 2:04:52.560 --> 2:04:57.040 go down. So you have these huge triumphs which to 2:04:57.120 --> 2:05:00.960 a great degree are not available to anybody anymore. How 2:05:01.000 --> 2:05:03.040 does it feel do you look back and say, well, 2:05:03.080 --> 2:05:06.720 I was there and now I'm here. How do you go? Oh? 2:05:07.120 --> 2:05:09.480 Very much so, because looking back is is not I 2:05:09.800 --> 2:05:13.040 don't ever compare myself to you know what. I celebrate 2:05:13.040 --> 2:05:16.360 what I used to do. I look at I still 2:05:16.440 --> 2:05:18.920 got goals in front of me. I just got offered 2:05:19.440 --> 2:05:22.320 uh to play at stage Coach a festival here, and 2:05:22.320 --> 2:05:26.320 that's my That's the first big festival of this sort 2:05:26.320 --> 2:05:30.280 of festival era, you know, the last ten twenty years 2:05:30.320 --> 2:05:33.680 that has asked me to play. And I'm excited. I'm like, yes, 2:05:33.800 --> 2:05:37.720 I finally have reached that level. And I'm always I'm 2:05:37.760 --> 2:05:41.960 always looking to expand and and I love that I have. 2:05:42.240 --> 2:05:44.480 I have younger people coming to see me. The younger 2:05:44.520 --> 2:05:48.960 generation is finding me, and so there's still so much 2:05:49.040 --> 2:05:53.080 to do and so much I want to do? And 2:05:53.200 --> 2:05:56.360 how much long are you going to do this? Oh, 2:05:56.440 --> 2:05:59.880 I'll go until I can't. I will never say I'm 2:06:00.080 --> 2:06:01.880 to retire. You'll never hear me say that, because I 2:06:01.880 --> 2:06:04.920 think that's silly. I mean, how do you retire from music? 2:06:04.960 --> 2:06:09.680 You know? And and I see my older peers, you know, 2:06:09.720 --> 2:06:13.560 as long as Bruce goes, I'm gonna go definitely, But 2:06:13.640 --> 2:06:16.760 who knows I will go? I I you know, I 2:06:17.720 --> 2:06:20.840 did you see you know Joni Mitchell just let the 2:06:20.840 --> 2:06:24.520 Newport you know. Yeah, that was beautiful. It made me cry. 2:06:24.520 --> 2:06:27.720 It was just gorgeous. You know. I'm my job is 2:06:27.720 --> 2:06:31.840 to keep myself healthy and have joy and longevity in 2:06:31.880 --> 2:06:35.480 my in my life. Well, you talk about stage coach. 2:06:36.480 --> 2:06:38.920 You know, this term from the movie has been overused, 2:06:38.960 --> 2:06:42.120 but it represents the concept better than anything else, which 2:06:42.160 --> 2:06:46.960 is bucket list. Anything you haven't done personally as well 2:06:47.000 --> 2:06:49.800 as in your career that you would like to do 2:06:49.920 --> 2:06:53.280 in the time you have left. Not a whole lot, 2:06:53.920 --> 2:06:56.400 because really I've done, you know, I got the Grammys, 2:06:56.400 --> 2:06:59.080 I got the Oscar I uh oh, I think I'd 2:06:59.080 --> 2:07:01.080 like a tone. I'd like an egot. I would like 2:07:01.120 --> 2:07:04.080 to be one of the under twenty people who have 2:07:04.160 --> 2:07:06.480 an egot. I think that would that that's something that 2:07:06.560 --> 2:07:09.960 I'd like. Yes, well, you know a lot of acts 2:07:10.000 --> 2:07:14.000 of your vintage UH have gone to Broadways. That's something 2:07:14.000 --> 2:07:16.760 on your horizon, Yes, sir, that is, that's something we're 2:07:16.760 --> 2:07:18.840 working on right now. You might hear about that in 2:07:18.880 --> 2:07:20.920 a couple of weeks. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna do 2:07:21.000 --> 2:07:23.240 something the end of this year off Broadway and hopefully 2:07:23.280 --> 2:07:28.200 bring it to Broadway. And you're very involved in your career. 2:07:28.280 --> 2:07:32.600 But what do you do when you're not working? I 2:07:32.760 --> 2:07:38.720 do my family. I love my family and I do 2:07:38.800 --> 2:07:41.920 a lot of that, and I do a lot of 2:07:42.200 --> 2:07:47.720 um gardening. I love my I just love my house. 2:07:48.160 --> 2:07:51.400 When i'm I love traveling with my my family. It's 2:07:51.440 --> 2:07:55.160 mostly my family and work. That's really what I am. 2:07:55.200 --> 2:07:58.120 And anywhere you haven't been you want to go. I 2:07:58.120 --> 2:08:01.960 would like to go to UH, South Africa. I know 2:08:02.000 --> 2:08:04.600 I have fans there, I have fans in Brazil, never 2:08:04.680 --> 2:08:08.640 been there, and the Asian country has never really been 2:08:08.680 --> 2:08:12.960 there either. Okay, Melsta, this has been wonderful. I want 2:08:12.960 --> 2:08:15.480 to thank you for taking the time. You know, you're 2:08:15.640 --> 2:08:19.680 very articulate, very positive, a joy to talk to. Thank 2:08:19.720 --> 2:08:21.880 you so much. What a pleasure to go through my 2:08:22.000 --> 2:08:25.480 life with you, my friend. It was great for me too, 2:08:25.960 --> 2:08:28.880 So until next time. This is Bob Left sex