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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, brolcome back to Bob Left Podcast. My guest today,

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Speaker 1: You've but one and only Melissa Et Melissa, you have

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Speaker 1: Ethridge Island coming up on Labor Day. What's that all about? Uh?

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Speaker 1: This is sort of a little dream come true, you know. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, as as I have gone through this music business,

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Speaker 1: I have seen, uh it changed how you connect with

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Speaker 1: your fans. Used to be through radio and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: record companies, and now I have a direct connection with

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Speaker 1: my fan base. And for the last about five years,

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Speaker 1: I've done about four cruises, at which I said I'd

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Speaker 1: never do. But when I can be so connected with

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Speaker 1: my fans, I can let them know, hey, going on

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Speaker 1: a cruise to my super duper fans will join me

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Speaker 1: on that. And I used to joke with them someday

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get an island and we're all gonna go away,

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Speaker 1: leave this crazy world and we're just gonna, you know,

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Speaker 1: play music. And so the people that the production company

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Speaker 1: sixth Man that I did my uh cruises with, said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, we can actually get an island that

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Speaker 1: has a resort on it. It's off it's off of Cancun,

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Speaker 1: and it's a dreams and secrets. Uh, resort there. And

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Speaker 1: so now I have Ethridge Island and it's a festival

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Speaker 1: and it's uh, it's music. It's myself and Annie DiFranco

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Speaker 1: and l King and Larkin Poe and some great great artists.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's welcome. Uh. You can go to Ethridge Island dot com.

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Speaker 1: Check it out right now, get a room, go here. Music.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of wellness, you know, yoga, food and

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Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff going on too. But it's just

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Speaker 1: super serving my fans and people that really love music. Okay,

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Speaker 1: what's the capacity for the event? Well, there's eight hundred rooms,

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Speaker 1: so that's uh. I'd say it's about two thousand people

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Speaker 1: are so two thousand give or take. So how many

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Speaker 1: hardcore Melissa Ethridge fans are there? Ah, there's thousands of

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Speaker 1: hardcore and they're all over the world. You know, we've

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Speaker 1: done I've done things with about four thousand people or so,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I'd say, let's say right about

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Speaker 1: that those that there's some that I've known for years,

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Speaker 1: you know, the really hardcore ones that come to see

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Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of shows. You get to know them,

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Speaker 1: you get to know their children and you know, so

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Speaker 1: I have some really really big fans. So talking about

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Speaker 1: the change in the business and the technological changes, you

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Speaker 1: can literally have access to your fans. How do you

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Speaker 1: do this? Do you have an email list? Is it

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Speaker 1: more on social media? How do you get the message

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Speaker 1: out different ways? I? UM, I was fortunate enough back

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Speaker 1: in I had one of the first artist websites that

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Speaker 1: that was made. I was approached by a company at

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Speaker 1: the time, fan fan Asylum was the name, and and

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Speaker 1: and this is you know, the internet wasn't he was

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Speaker 1: just barely getting started and they said, we'd love to

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Speaker 1: make a fan club. And I was like, fan club,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is rock and roll. What are you

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Speaker 1: talking about? But I said, okay, fine it it. What's

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Speaker 1: it gonna hurt? And they built and and a mask,

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Speaker 1: you know, email, email addresses and and a way to

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Speaker 1: connect with people. And it became one of the number

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Speaker 1: one fan sites on the Internet for a long time.

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Speaker 1: And you know, since then, we have kept that email list.

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Speaker 1: And I myself, UM, I have lots of social media outlets.

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Speaker 1: I have people that run that, but I myself run

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Speaker 1: my Twitter. I like to know that there's one place

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Speaker 1: that they know it's actually me responding, reading and and

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Speaker 1: right there with him. I I don't I don't do Facebook, Instagram,

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Speaker 1: but I'm on those through my management. They run that

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Speaker 1: and keep that going and inform people. But if you

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Speaker 1: want to really hear what I have to say about something,

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Speaker 1: it's on Twitter. So you're one of the early technological

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Speaker 1: adopters from an out facing way, like having a website.

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Speaker 1: Are you personally very into technology or you someone who

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Speaker 1: served the web and it's infancy, well, because I, um,

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Speaker 1: actually I did. Yeah, in the nineties. I was very

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Speaker 1: interested because I could for the first time, I could

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Speaker 1: actually get instant feedback from real people, you know, before

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Speaker 1: the Internet. I would go do a show and the

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Speaker 1: only review I saw was the guy that was, you

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Speaker 1: know as signed to cover my show that night, and

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Speaker 1: who knows if he even stayed for the whole concert,

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Speaker 1: you know, And I do this great show, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: I'd get these really weird reviews from you know, one person,

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Speaker 1: or or reviews on an album. You get one person

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Speaker 1: listening to the album. That's the only feedback I used

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Speaker 1: to get, except for when I'd be in concert and

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Speaker 1: see the people and then I have this other reaction,

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Speaker 1: you know, live and then I'd leave in four days

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Speaker 1: later I could read a review and I was like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, what was the guy at the same

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Speaker 1: show as I was? So it was so refreshing too

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Speaker 1: in the nineties to go on a O L to

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Speaker 1: go on the fan the Melissa Ethridge, you know board,

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Speaker 1: and actually see what people were saying. It was the

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Speaker 1: first time I got to see kind of instantly how

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Speaker 1: people felt about my music as someone with a profile,

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Speaker 1: pretty high profile and experience, you know, a couple of things.

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Speaker 1: One for nine positives, there's always somebody negative and then

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Speaker 1: negative person is twisting the knife. So how do you

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Speaker 1: cope with the negative? And to what degree do you

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Speaker 1: change your behave You're based on this feedback not only

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Speaker 1: the negative, positive too. Oh I, um, well, I went

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Speaker 1: through my own personal kind of transformation. I had cancer

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Speaker 1: eighteen years ago, cancer free for eighteen years now, and

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Speaker 1: um having gone through that, I realized I had to

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Speaker 1: let go of really what other people thought about me,

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Speaker 1: because that would make me crazy. And the more that

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Speaker 1: I have seen social media come up and again this

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Speaker 1: instant response to something, and when I went on social

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Speaker 1: when I went on Twitter, you know, ten years ago

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Speaker 1: or whatever, I realized right away, oh, you're gonna get unfiltered.

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Speaker 1: You know, response is positive and negative. And whereas before

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Speaker 1: cancer I would let the negative get to me, I

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Speaker 1: would uh, I would, you know, really just think I

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Speaker 1: would let all the positive go by, but boy, that

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Speaker 1: one negative person I would focus on that and it

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Speaker 1: would make me crazy. And it's just a really sad

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Speaker 1: way to kind of do your work when one negative

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Speaker 1: thing can mess you up. And I realized I needed

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Speaker 1: to focus on on what I love. I needed to

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Speaker 1: make sure that the music I was making, the performing

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Speaker 1: I was doing made me happy. And as long as

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Speaker 1: I had that, as long as I could get out

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Speaker 1: there do my best. I knew that whatever anyone else

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Speaker 1: was experiencing was their experience going through their filter. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they had a bad day, maybe they're having a bad

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Speaker 1: year or life, you know, and that's their filter. And

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Speaker 1: if they if they don't, you know, feel the love

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Speaker 1: and the you know, the creativity and what I put

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Speaker 1: into it. If if it's not for them, then so

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Speaker 1: be it. And what other people think about me is

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Speaker 1: really none of my business. I really need to make

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Speaker 1: the music, make the the creativity that I love. It's

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Speaker 1: very difficult as an artist in the commercial space to

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Speaker 1: totally divorce oneself from the audience. So it's just like

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Speaker 1: playing live, you know what works. But let's say there's

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Speaker 1: a direction you want to go in or a song

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Speaker 1: you want to play and it's either not resonating or

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Speaker 1: you're getting negative feedback online. Would that inhibit you from

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Speaker 1: playing it? Would you stop playing? Or would you say

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Speaker 1: this is what I want to do? Oh? I would

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Speaker 1: if I if I had a lot of feedback, if

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Speaker 1: if maybe if I saw people that were normally uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, flowing with the work that I was doing

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Speaker 1: having a very negative response to it, then I would

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Speaker 1: I would think, Wow, what what did I overlook on this?

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Speaker 1: What what am I not seeing? That is is you know,

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Speaker 1: people are misinterpreting And I would go back and check

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Speaker 1: and see and and really kind of, uh, look at that.

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Speaker 1: I what if it was more. But if it's just

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Speaker 1: a handful of people that I can tell are are

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Speaker 1: just kind of miserable in nature and they're there are

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Speaker 1: people that kind of just want to go around stomping things.

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Speaker 1: If it's if it's that, I really let that be.

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Speaker 1: I don't mess with that energy. I believe that you know,

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Speaker 1: whatever you pay attention to you get. So I I

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Speaker 1: really try to try to look at you know, keep

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Speaker 1: my my gaze and my attention going towards you know, positive,

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Speaker 1: good feeling things. But if I were to see a

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Speaker 1: massive amount of not feeling things, I would have to

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Speaker 1: I would have to look at myself and go, Wow,

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Speaker 1: what am I putting out that I that I don't

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Speaker 1: see here? Let's go back to Twitter. How often do

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Speaker 1: you post on Twitter? And what kind of stuff? Oh? Wow? Um,

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Speaker 1: I it can be up to one or two times

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Speaker 1: a day. And then lately, I, you know, I kinda

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Speaker 1: I kind of had to take a break off of

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Speaker 1: Twitter because you know, my own Twitter is fine. I can,

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Speaker 1: you know, post something and then read what people say.

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Speaker 1: But boy, once I go into my feed and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden I start reading the news and everything,

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Speaker 1: I just go down into a doom scroll hole, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I need to give myself a break on that every

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Speaker 1: now and then. So, um, I would say I at

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Speaker 1: least post once a week. Um, during football NFL football season,

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Speaker 1: I'll post a lot because I'm a big Kansas City

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Speaker 1: Chiefs fan and my uh my, my fans know that,

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Speaker 1: and so I have a whole section of of Kansas

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Speaker 1: City chi fans that follow me that that might not

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Speaker 1: be as familiar with my music, but they know that

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Speaker 1: we are, you know, in in the in the fandom

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Speaker 1: together in the arrowhead, you know. So I'm a big

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Speaker 1: fan of that. So I'll post about that. I'll post

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Speaker 1: about shows I'm doing. Every night, after a show, I'll

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Speaker 1: take what we call a melfie and it's just a

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Speaker 1: little like twenty video of me and the audience, so

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Speaker 1: that if you were at the show, you could have

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Speaker 1: a little thing. It's like a selfie with me and

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Speaker 1: the audience at every show. So I'll do that every

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Speaker 1: after every show. But you know, on the road, I'll

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Speaker 1: tweet once a day. I guess, how about a filter?

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Speaker 1: You know, they're different philosophies about how much to reveal

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Speaker 1: about your personal life. Do you feel everything's up for

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Speaker 1: grabs or do you have a wall? Well, I have

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Speaker 1: lived my life in such a way since the nineties

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Speaker 1: that I was very open about my personal life. I

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Speaker 1: felt that there's power in that that if I had

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Speaker 1: if I had kept uh, you know, silent and hidden

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Speaker 1: about my sexuality or or anything, and you know, they

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Speaker 1: come and find you. They they that sort of thing

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Speaker 1: you start worrying about it. So I said, look, I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna be honest about myself about everything, so the

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Speaker 1: good and the bad. You know, every time I had

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Speaker 1: a breakup, it was public, and you know those aren't

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Speaker 1: very much fun. And and then when my son died

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, that was no fun when

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Speaker 1: that went public because it was you know, it was

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Speaker 1: opioid addiction. And you know, there's so much judgment or not.

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Speaker 1: But again, it is my job as as my own

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Speaker 1: human as a human being, I need to take care

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Speaker 1: of my inner self. I need to know that people.

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Speaker 1: I will never be able to get people to you know,

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Speaker 1: see my way or or you know that they're always

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Speaker 1: going to have their own opinions and they are welcome

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Speaker 1: to them. I just don't have to give my attention

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Speaker 1: or my gaze to that. I can keep it on

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Speaker 1: what I know and my loved ones, who are you know,

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Speaker 1: connected to me. So going back to the chiefs, was

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Speaker 1: Shottenheimer just a loser? Or or as Mahomes just that good? Oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we've had coaches, We've I've see I was

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Speaker 1: born and raised in Leavenworth, Kansas. So my father was

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Speaker 1: a huge Kansas City Chiefs fan. I remember the first time, well,

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Speaker 1: no that the first time we won the Super Bowl.

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Speaker 1: The second time we were in the super Bowl. But um,

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Speaker 1: you know, nine seventy I remember that game, Lenny Dawson

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Speaker 1: and everybody, and then um, then fifty years went by,

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Speaker 1: fifty and I know them. They were my years when

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Speaker 1: you know, you every year would see we we will

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Speaker 1: get close. And for the last you know, decade, we

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Speaker 1: we would get close. We would have some bad season,

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Speaker 1: but we would get really close. And then, man, once

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Speaker 1: Andy Reid came, he made a big difference in coaching,

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Speaker 1: absolutely makes a difference. And and the the the you know,

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Speaker 1: the culture in that locker room. And you could just

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Speaker 1: see the team changing when Andy came and put his

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Speaker 1: coaches together and it was a you could feel, you know.

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Speaker 1: And we went through Andy, we went through uh Alex Smith,

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Speaker 1: and boy, once we got Patrick Mahomes, things just quickly

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Speaker 1: changed and you realized what what one player can do

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Speaker 1: with it in that position to reach the other talent

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Speaker 1: that we You've got me talking football, man, I can

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Speaker 1: talk this all all day. Okay. Do you know the

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Speaker 1: Chiefs personally? I do not. I I have hugged Andy

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Speaker 1: Reid numerous times because every time I sing the national anthem,

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Speaker 1: which I love to do, which has been about three

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Speaker 1: times now. Um, he's always right in front of me

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Speaker 1: when I sing. They've got me up on a pedalt

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Speaker 1: you know this, uh Riser. I'm singing to the crowd

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Speaker 1: of sixty people, but the team and Andy Reid is

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Speaker 1: right in front of me. Now, I don't dare look

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Speaker 1: any team member in the eye because you know they're

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Speaker 1: concentrating on the game. But Andy Reid always came over

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Speaker 1: and gave me a big hug. And I know his wife,

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Speaker 1: So that's that's as close as I've gotten. Do you

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Speaker 1: have season tickets or you just know when you want

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Speaker 1: to go you can get a ticket. Yeah, well I

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Speaker 1: live in Los Angeles, so I don't have season tickets

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Speaker 1: to Arrowhead. I Um, whenever I am playing or in

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Speaker 1: the area and there's a game, I know who to

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Speaker 1: call it ask for tickets. But there they also play

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Speaker 1: the Chargers, you know, twice a year and once here

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Speaker 1: in l A. So now I can go to Sophie.

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Speaker 1: I haven't been there yet because of COVID. We didn't

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Speaker 1: we couldn't go. But this year I'm going I'm going

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Speaker 1: to be there. Okay, are you basically a fan? Now?

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Speaker 1: Of course we're all older at this point, you and myself,

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Speaker 1: um or you were? You? Were you very athletic as

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Speaker 1: a child. Oh? Uh, My father was very athletic. He

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Speaker 1: he loved uh. He was a basketball coach actually for

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Speaker 1: the high school, for the high school team, and he

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Speaker 1: took him to state in the sixties and early seventies.

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Speaker 1: He was beloved coach Ethridge. He he taught the swimming.

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Speaker 1: He he played softball. He taught me how to play softball.

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Speaker 1: I learned. I'm a good lesbian. I learned how to

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Speaker 1: play softball. I loved it. It was fantastic. Um basketball,

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Speaker 1: I could, I could do a jump shot really great.

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Speaker 1: But I wasn't big at running, so I wasn't I

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Speaker 1: wasn't terribly athletic. And I certainly enjoyed music more than

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Speaker 1: I did the the sports. And so when it came

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Speaker 1: to high school, I had to choose. We couldn't do

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Speaker 1: both because you couldn't do all those electives, and I

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Speaker 1: definitely chose music. So the sports kind of went, you know, away,

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Speaker 1: and so I became an observer of sports instead of

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Speaker 1: a participant. Unfortunately, you know your son passed, but he

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Speaker 1: was trying to be a professional snowboarder. Was that a

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Speaker 1: family activity or that was just something he did by himself. Well,

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Speaker 1: when he was younger, I I was. I used to

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Speaker 1: ski a lot, and UM I would take him up

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Speaker 1: and he loved snowboarding so much when he was very young,

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Speaker 1: ten eleven years old, and I would take him up

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Speaker 1: as much as I could. And then UM, as a

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Speaker 1: young teenager, he started going on his own. And then

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Speaker 1: when he was about seventeen, he uh, well, before then,

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Speaker 1: he would go to like camps where he met these

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Speaker 1: professional people and they invited him to come to Aspen

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Speaker 1: and train, and he did for one season and then

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Speaker 1: they invited to come back and maybe UM sort of

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Speaker 1: start to be with the team when he was about seventeen,

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Speaker 1: and that's when he heard his ankle really bad. How

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Speaker 1: does one cope with the passing of a child. I

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Speaker 1: don't know the best that one can just it. There

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Speaker 1: is not even a word for it. You know, you

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Speaker 1: have the word for losing your your partner, your your

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Speaker 1: widow or or you know a widow or you know

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Speaker 1: or or or when you lose your parents you're an orphan.

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Speaker 1: But when you're a parent that loses a child, there's

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Speaker 1: not even a word for it in in the language.

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Speaker 1: So um, it is so not supposed to be your

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Speaker 1: your You're not supposed to outlive your children. And um,

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Speaker 1: you know the the when when you weigh up and

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Speaker 1: you know that someone who you've seen come into the

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Speaker 1: world and live for a couple of decades, when they're

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Speaker 1: not you know, when they're not around anymore, it's not right.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't feel right, and so every day you just well.

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Speaker 1: The way that I coped with it, I don't you know,

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Speaker 1: everyone has their own way. But the way I coped

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Speaker 1: with it was to understand that he he is not

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Speaker 1: gone forever and ever his that that spirit which he was,

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Speaker 1: that that light that he was beyond all his addictions

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Speaker 1: and troubles. Um, that light is is still alive and

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Speaker 1: it has always been in existence that spirit and I

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Speaker 1: and my deep my own spiritual beliefs are one of

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Speaker 1: you know, we are here in the physical, and then

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Speaker 1: there is a a place that is the non physical,

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Speaker 1: where all that spirit lives. So I I do, I

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Speaker 1: believe that I will and still am in some way

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Speaker 1: spiritually connected and that helps me. That is a that's

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Speaker 1: a comfort to me. Your sister, uh, if you go online,

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Speaker 1: went to Columbia, what is she up to? I know

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Speaker 1: a story of my own life identical to this. There

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Speaker 1: were twins though, and one o deed and one is

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Speaker 1: a very successful medical doctor of the same vintage as

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Speaker 1: your children. So what is your daughter up to? And

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Speaker 1: how does she cope? If you know? With the passing,

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Speaker 1: it was very very hard on my daughter. They were close.

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Speaker 1: They they used to be considered twins because they look

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Speaker 1: so much alike, and they're they're only about a year

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Speaker 1: and a half apart, and so they were very close.

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Speaker 1: And it's very very hard. And I can't speak for her,

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Speaker 1: but I do know that, you know, there's a there's

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Speaker 1: a painful part in her heart and and she she

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Speaker 1: you know, deals with that on her own and and

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Speaker 1: and and with us together, we as a family have

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Speaker 1: agreed that that we're not going when we talk about him,

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Speaker 1: we're not going to be sad. We're going to remember,

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Speaker 1: you know, lovingly the fun things. You know, and I

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Speaker 1: have whether children their fame now they'll be sixteen soon,

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Speaker 1: they are twins, and um, you know they we we

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Speaker 1: talked about him, and oh, well, Beckett, we would have

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Speaker 1: done this or oh Beckett used to do this, and

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Speaker 1: we tell stories and and it's very loving. And when

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Speaker 1: we do that, we feel he's close to us. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, my daughter, I just I just love her

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Speaker 1: as much as I can. And yet you I certainly

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Speaker 1: have learned that when when you hear someone in a

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Speaker 1: family as has addiction issues, uh, or you know, forbid

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Speaker 1: they they have lost someone to an opioid addiction, you know,

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Speaker 1: I no longer look to blame anyone it is. It

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Speaker 1: is a personal issue. Families deal with us all the time.

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Speaker 1: You know, Bailey grew up under the same roof, and

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Speaker 1: she is highly successful. Uh not only did she graduate Columbia,

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Speaker 1: but she got her masters at the London School of Economics.

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Speaker 1: And and she's just you know, she's just my delight.

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Speaker 1: And and you know, people make different choices. Beckett made

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Speaker 1: a different choice and and um, you know, he left

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Speaker 1: us way too early. So we as a family, we

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Speaker 1: hold him, We love him, we remembered, we cherish our

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Speaker 1: memories with him, and uh, you know, we keep him close.

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Speaker 1: So you had two children with one partner and two

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Speaker 1: children with another a partner and ultimately broke up with

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Speaker 1: both partners. How did you manage the children and being

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Speaker 1: closed and who had custody and all kinds of things. Ah, well,

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Speaker 1: the uh, the first one, the first two that was

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Speaker 1: a little more well, okay, I don't really want to

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Speaker 1: go into details on it because it's so it's so

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Speaker 1: cretty kind of and um the what I always had

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Speaker 1: fifty custody that it was always I definitely wanted to say, look,

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Speaker 1: these are these are my kids also, and you know,

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Speaker 1: even though I'm not blood related to them, I am

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Speaker 1: their mother, And every single one of them would would

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Speaker 1: look at you funny if if if somehow you said

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Speaker 1: I wasn't there, like, oh no, she is. And know

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Speaker 1: I I shared custody. The too older I actually ended

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Speaker 1: up having more custody for many different reasons. They actually

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Speaker 1: ended up staying at my house more. The two younger ones,

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Speaker 1: I get along with their mother a little better. And

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Speaker 1: I kind of learned from the first one that that

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Speaker 1: any conflict you have, any sort of pulling and tugging

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Speaker 1: and and trying to prove something, only hurts the children.

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Speaker 1: I really saw that, I really saw how hard it

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Speaker 1: was on the children. So the second time and I

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Speaker 1: didn't expect to go through it, but I did. The

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Speaker 1: second time. I was like, Okay, now I'm gonna this

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Speaker 1: is gonna be a lot easier. I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna push against things. I know that children

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Speaker 1: they go where it's warm, you know, I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: love them. I'm gonna do the best I can. And um,

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Speaker 1: I really believe that the less conflict they have in

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Speaker 1: their life, the better it is for them. And it

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Speaker 1: has it has proven out there two delightful children and

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Speaker 1: they're almost sixteen, and you know, they're they're becoming young adults,

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Speaker 1: and I'm just very pleased. Now, did you ever consider

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Speaker 1: or why did you not have biological children yourself? Oh? Um,

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Speaker 1: First of all, I uh, I when I was hunger,

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Speaker 1: you know, in the seventies, late seventies, early eighties, when

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Speaker 1: you decided, not decided, when you realized you were gay,

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Speaker 1: it meant you weren't going to have kids. That was

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Speaker 1: part of the deal of being gay, and that was

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Speaker 1: part of the things that mothers would cry and go,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to have grandchildren, you know, stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: And so as the eighties went on, we realized that

409
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Speaker 1: well as women, we could still have children, you know,

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Speaker 1: we can make this work and and and a lot

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Speaker 1: of people started doing that, and so um when my

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Speaker 1: partner at the time then I discussed children she wanted

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Speaker 1: to carry, and I was fine with that because I

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Speaker 1: never really had that urge. And then later when I

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Speaker 1: was thirty five six, I started having um uh uter

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Speaker 1: insists and things like that. So I actually ended up

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Speaker 1: having a hysterectomy at my late thirties, so I couldn't

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Speaker 1: have to I wouldn't have been able to have children anyway.

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Speaker 1: But you know, and it didn't bother me at all.

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Speaker 1: Believe me. I was there when they came into this

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Speaker 1: world and I saw it, and I've never felt not connected,

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Speaker 1: you know, biologically to my children at all. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: how did you cope with COVID? I know you did

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Speaker 1: a lot of live shows on the internet. You know,

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Speaker 1: what was it like for you? Ah? I remember when

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Speaker 1: everyone started talking about it, and my first couple of

427
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: gigs started to get canceled because we were going out

428
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: at the end of March of twenty and we were

429
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 1: gonna tour all summer and we were gonna go to Europe,

430
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 1: and it was everything was planned and and the first

431
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 1: few dates started being canceled and I said, oh, okay,

432
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: well this is only gonna be a couple of weeks.

433
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 1: You know, I had no idea of what it would be.

434
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: And when I realized after well actually after a few

435
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: days when they started canceling them, I I went on

436
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: my Facebook because everyone seemed to be kind of it

437
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 1: was really scary what was happening, like real things shutting

438
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: down and people not being able to meet and and

439
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: so I said, you know what, I'm gonna go on Facebook,

440
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:41,479
Speaker 1: on my little Facebook page, and you know, for I'm

441
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: gonna sing a song or two. I'm just going to

442
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: connect with my fans every day until this is over,

443
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 1: you know. And so I started doing it, and you know,

444
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: after a couple of weeks, I started realizing, wow, we're

445
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:58,719
Speaker 1: in this, and so I I actually went every single

446
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 1: day at three o'clock on Pacific time. I went online

447
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: for fifty eight days in a row. And then that's

448
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 1: when my son died, and so I I stopped and

449
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 1: for about four weeks, we mourned, We we UH got

450
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 1: that together. But I came out here. Actually I'm in

451
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:28,719
Speaker 1: my UH garage studio, which then I took my my sadness,

452
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: my grief and my oh my gosh, what am I

453
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: gonna do now? My son's died and I can't go anywhere,

454
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: I can't go perform, you know, and make myself feel better. UM.

455
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: So I cleaned out this part of my garage and

456
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: made a studio and sound proofd it, and um, I

457
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: learned everything about streaming, about cameras, about sound I started

458
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: doing my own guitar teching and I built this studio,

459
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 1: which as I was doing and I was realizing I

460
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: was kind of doing what nobody else had done before

461
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: because we didn't Streaming was kind of a not a

462
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: thing that many people did. They would do it every

463
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: now and then, but it wasn't a real thing. And

464
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: now with COVID it was becoming huge. So I ended

465
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: up having steven cameras and uh, you know professional soundboard

466
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: that I hooked up that my sound man in Florida.

467
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: We we figured a way to have him run the

468
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: sound connect through the internet, him run the sound in Florida,

469
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,239
Speaker 1: and we presented a thing we called Ethridge TV and

470
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: we did it five five days a week. It kept

471
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: me and my wife saying I would do Tuesday's were

472
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: cover days, and so I would learn like four or

473
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 1: five cover songs that that I hadn't been singing other

474
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: people's material for decades, and it was really enjoyable and

475
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: I connected with the fans. I now have this, you know,

476
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: two years of content now of me singing all kinds

477
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: of stuff and and doing stuff with my wife, and

478
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: it just it kept our creativity going, It kept me saying,

479
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: it kept me connected, it got me through grief. It

480
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: was just it was actually a really great experience. And

481
00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: what about monetization, Well, yeah, then there was that because

482
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 1: because I did realize that after those fifty eight days,

483
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 1: I went, oh my god, I'm not working this year,

484
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 1: and touring is my bread and butter. Touring pays the bills,

485
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:33,600
Speaker 1: and I thought, oh my, how am I going to

486
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: pay the bills? And so we Ethirds TV. We ended

487
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: up charging a subscription and for fifty dollars a month,

488
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: you've got five shows a week, and people were willing

489
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: to do that, and so we actually were able to

490
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: pay the bills for a year and a half off

491
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:54,160
Speaker 1: of that. How many people subscribe over a thousand, you know,

492
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:57,440
Speaker 1: So yeah, let's go back to the beginning. How did

493
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 1: your family end up in Leavenworth. My father was born

494
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: in St. Louis, Missouri too, you know, migrant farmers, very

495
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: very poor. He was just you know, poverty. He came

496
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 1: from there. Uh. My mother came from Arkansas, where she

497
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: grew up, you know, not as poor. Her father was

498
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 1: an insurance salesman, so she kind of was. And she

499
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 1: ended up going to college at Henderson University in Arkansas.

500
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: And my father got a scholarship because he was athletic,

501
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: and someone in his high school helped him to understand

502
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 1: that he could go to college on an athletic scholarship.

503
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 1: So he goes there, they meet, he gets a job

504
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: coaching in Leavenworth, Kansas, And so I have no other

505
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,040
Speaker 1: family in Leavenworth, but they ended up, you know, settling

506
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: down in leveryone because he could get a job there.

507
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 1: I've been to Ksey many times, and I've certainly been

508
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: to Lawrence. I've never been to Leavenworth. But all anybody

509
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: knows about Leavenworth is the prison. Yeah, that's something. Is

510
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: that something if you live there that you don't even

511
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: think about or is that you know, impact the whole town?

512
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: You don't think about it because that prison. The Federal

513
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:17,440
Speaker 1: Penitentiary is huge, and it was about two blocks from

514
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: my house and I used to ride my bike by

515
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: it all the time, and I just that's just the prison,

516
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,040
Speaker 1: and everybody has a prison in their town. I thought,

517
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: you know, it was just it was totally normal. But

518
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 1: as i um, as I grew, I actually was a

519
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: part of a little talent show that became a variety

520
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: show and we would go and perform at the prisons.

521
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: So I realized that not only do we have the

522
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: Federal penitentiary there, we have the Army penitentiary, the Fort

523
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: Leavenworth has an Army penitentiary there. We have the U

524
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 1: in the little town right next to us Lansing. We

525
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: have the Kansas State Men's Prison, and then the women's

526
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: penitentiary used to be there. It's in Topeka now, but

527
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: it used to be there. So I would go around

528
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: and I would perform in all of these prisons. And

529
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: we're actually looking to um to create a little documentary

530
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: and having me go back and performing in the women's

531
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: penitentiary there. But yeah, it's everybody's family, you know. They

532
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: had their fathers were guards or something at the penitentiary.

533
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,840
Speaker 1: Every now and then you'd hear about a break out.

534
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 1: You know, one of my friends actually was picked up

535
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 1: a hitchhiker, which you're not supposed to do around my town,

536
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: and and he had escaped and he kind of kidnapped

537
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: and forced him to drive him to Nebraska. But he

538
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: was fine, you know. So so when you went to

539
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: the prisons, what age were you and were you anxious scared?

540
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,640
Speaker 1: I was not at all. I was I was about

541
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: I'd say. And I gotta tell you, the audience was amazing.

542
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 1: I mean, talk about a captive audience, right, But they

543
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: were so thrilled to just be entertained that they were

544
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 1: hooting and hollering. Of course, I was thirteen and a

545
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: young girl or whatever. I didn't I didn't take it

546
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: as that. I just took it as this was a

547
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: whole lot of energy that was really loved, that was

548
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: loving being entertained. So how far is Leavenworth from Kansas City.

549
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,479
Speaker 1: It's about well, I just knew it's about a forty

550
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: five minute drive, maybe an hour. It's it's right up

551
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: there on the bight of Kansas and Missouri. The Missouri

552
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: River is part of Leavenworth, and and you crossed the

553
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 1: Missouri River and you're in Missouri, and how often growing

554
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: up there as a teenager would you go to Kansas City? Um?

555
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 1: I I played in bands as a teenager, and I

556
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: would work in Kansas City a lot. I would work

557
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: in the Ramada in or the you know, I would

558
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 1: play the ski club dances, and so I would go

559
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: there once a week, I guess. Okay, So how many

560
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,120
Speaker 1: kids in the family. I have one sister, one older sister.

561
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: And how many years between the two of you? We

562
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: were exactly four years apart. We were born on the

563
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: same day, but four years apart, okay, and so four

564
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,359
Speaker 1: years is a lot when you were a kid. So

565
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 1: what was your relationship with your sister growing up? Well,

566
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: it was not a good relationship. She was troubled also,

567
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 1: Um and uh, we were not close at all. But

568
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 1: she used to listen to the coolest music. She had

569
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 1: Led Zeppelin, she had Humble Pie, she had Rolling Stones,

570
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:34,359
Speaker 1: Exile on Main Street. You know, she had all these

571
00:35:34,400 --> 00:35:37,680
Speaker 1: great records that me, as a eleven year old, didn't

572
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,520
Speaker 1: quite you know, I wouldn't not to find it, but

573
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: I would listen to them, go whoa, this is amazing,

574
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: and so hearing those and then my parents music was

575
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: you know Mom's and the Papas and Neil Diamond and

576
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: Aretha Franklin. So I got this really great mix of

577
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: music in the house and then the radio. So even

578
00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:01,400
Speaker 1: though I wasn't close to my sister, her music really

579
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:05,280
Speaker 1: influenced me, the music that she listened to. You reference

580
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,359
Speaker 1: her as troubled and refer to yourself as trouble. What

581
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: does that mean troubled? Troubled? Well, she um, I was.

582
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 1: I wouldn't say I was troubled. I was actually was

583
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: a very good child. I didn't mean to say that

584
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 1: I was troubled. Um, I was only troubled in that. Uh.

585
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get away from that small town.

586
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: I had a big dream of you know, fame and

587
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: fortune and I could be a rock star. Somehow. She

588
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,000
Speaker 1: was troubled in that, Um. You know there it was drugs,

589
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 1: it was I think she had an abortion when she

590
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,480
Speaker 1: was sixteen. It was you know, she constantly fought with

591
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,960
Speaker 1: my parents, she dropped out of high school. You know,

592
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: she's still having a hard time. So it's just it's

593
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: just just that kind of you know, choices that were made,

594
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: and what's your relationship with her now? Not much? I

595
00:36:54,239 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: um uh, I know her daughter more. I her she

596
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: had two children, her her oldest son also died of

597
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 1: a overdose. I know, it's it's everywhere and um and

598
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 1: but her youngest was really amazing and it helps a lot.

599
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 1: And so I I connected with her and through her,

600
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,720
Speaker 1: I'm still connected with my older sister. But I realized

601
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,439
Speaker 1: a long time ago, I I, you know, you don't

602
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: choose your family, and you know, so sometimes they're they're

603
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: just not the ones that you are are really connected with.

604
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 1: You know, I really sort of built my own family.

605
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:37,840
Speaker 1: So you grew up in a middle class family, certainly

606
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: in the sixties, and then you had great financial success.

607
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 1: Did you give your sister money? Did you buy things

608
00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 1: for your parents? Well? Yes, I was a good rock star,

609
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 1: you know, of course. Yeah, that's that's where coming from

610
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,160
Speaker 1: a place where we we didn't have that much money.

611
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:04,560
Speaker 1: We were lower middle class and my father was a teacher,

612
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: and it was it was but we we we were

613
00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: never went hungry, so that that was fine and and

614
00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: it was great. So the minute I got some money,

615
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,200
Speaker 1: I'm like, WHOA, you know, this is amazing. I can

616
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 1: I I bought my sister a car. I ended up

617
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: buying my parents house when they wanted to retire, and

618
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:26,319
Speaker 1: I kind of did that for a while, and then

619
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: I realized, I'm not really well with my parents. It

620
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 1: was fine because they had worked hard all their life

621
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: and and and I felt, you know, that that was

622
00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: not a problem, you know. And I ended up supporting

623
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: my mother until she passed away a few years ago.

624
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: But my sister, I realized, wait, but I'm not helping

625
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: my sister because she's not doing anything, you know, and

626
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: she's unhappy and and she's still you know, she was

627
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,360
Speaker 1: having her own drug issues and her kids. And I

628
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: ended up taking her daughter out of her home for

629
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 1: a while and and putting her in her boarding school

630
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: and helping her. So when I realized that my this

631
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,759
Speaker 1: sort of enabling my sister financially was not helping her,

632
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: and I, like I said, when I went through cancer,

633
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 1: I had a real kind of spiritual um m hmm

634
00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: enlightenment about, Oh, it's not my job to save anybody

635
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: else or fix anybody else. They have to, you know,

636
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 1: go through what they need to go through. I finally

637
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 1: called her and said, Okay, you've got a roof over

638
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: your head. That's it. I'm not there's not another dime,

639
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: and I don't want to hear from you. And I didn't,

640
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, and she's you know, like I said, I

641
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: go through her daughter. Her daughter now takes care of

642
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: her more. And UM, you know you just sort of

643
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:58,239
Speaker 1: you just let that be. So what kind of kid

644
00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: were you going up? Were you like running around the

645
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 1: neighborhood with good student, bad student, loaner, life of the party. Um.

646
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: I was a friendly child. I was a happy child. Uh.

647
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: I love music from early on earlier, from my first

648
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 1: memories were the Beatles singing I want to hold your hand,

649
00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: you know. That's that's so. I was just obsessed with music.

650
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: I was a good child because I saw my sister

651
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: causing so much havoc and the family. I sort of

652
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 1: just stayed quiet and did my own thing. And I

653
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 1: got along with my father really well. Uh I you know,

654
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:43,600
Speaker 1: I I didn't cause any trouble. Um in high school,

655
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 1: I was friends with everyone. I was known. I mean,

656
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 1: if you ask anyone, nobody is surprised that I became

657
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 1: successful because I was the girl that would walk around

658
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: the halls with my guitar case all the time, you know,

659
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: and I was missy that you know, made music and

660
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: everybody knew that. And I knew the sporty kids. I

661
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 1: knew the the pot smoking kids outside, I knew the

662
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: brainy kids. I knew the music and drama geeks, and

663
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: and we all hung out. It was, you know, even racially.

664
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: I had black friends. I had all all kinds of friends.

665
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 1: Yet I was kind of a loner when it really

666
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: came down to it, because I would go off on

667
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: the weekends and and play in my bands, and I'd

668
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:25,760
Speaker 1: make money, so I didn't socialize as much as most

669
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: kids do. And um, but you know, I look back

670
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 1: and I didn't cause any trouble. I wasn't a straight

671
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: a student by any means, but I did fine. You know,

672
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: So when did you start playing an instrument? Ah? The

673
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: first instrument I played was a guitar. I took guitar

674
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: lessons at age eight. The guy didn't want to teach me.

675
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,520
Speaker 1: He said my fingers would bleed and i'd quit. I said, no,

676
00:41:57,560 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 1: I won't, No, I won't, he said, I was too young,

677
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: and my fingers bled. But I didn't quit, and I

678
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: just kept going and now I have huge calyss. But um,

679
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 1: but then I learned clarinet in school and uh, then

680
00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 1: that became I also learned saxophone. I learned all kinds

681
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: of stuff, and in like junior high, I was very

682
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 1: interested in all kinds of music. I taught myself how

683
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: to play the piano. I made the drummers in my

684
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,319
Speaker 1: bands teach me how to play the drums. I just

685
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: wanted to learn everything. So I you know, I'm I'm

686
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,720
Speaker 1: very good at a couple of instruments, and I'm okay

687
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,760
Speaker 1: to a few, and I could make sound out of others.

688
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: You know. Okay, so you're playing the guitar. At what

689
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,439
Speaker 1: point do you form a band? Ah? Well, I tried

690
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:48,920
Speaker 1: to form form a band when I was in in

691
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 1: like early school, like when I was twelve or thirteen,

692
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: but I just couldn't get any of my other friends,

693
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 1: you know interested. I did say, come on, you know here,

694
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: play the play this, and I ended up teaching my

695
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: best friend how to play bass because I wanted him

696
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: to play with me. And then when I finally met

697
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 1: professional musicians through this variety show and and met professionals

698
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: that I mean professionals as in guys that had other jobs,

699
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: but on the weekends they would go out and and working.

700
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: These were grown ups with families, but they would play

701
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: on the weekends at dances and would make extra money.

702
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:29,160
Speaker 1: And my mother wasn't supportive of it, but my father was,

703
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 1: and so we won that argument, and uh, I ended

704
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,760
Speaker 1: up playing with professional musicians. And so the first band

705
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:41,759
Speaker 1: I played in I was I was about thirteen, and

706
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: it was a country band, you know as Chuck Hamersmith

707
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: and the Wranglers, and but these cats could play. They

708
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: were good and they're still they're old guys now playing

709
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: you know in Leavenworth, but they were great. And then

710
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:55,959
Speaker 1: I went on from there and played in a couple

711
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 1: of other bands until I had like my own band

712
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: of these grown ups, UH that I played until my

713
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 1: senior year. Then when I was a senior in high school,

714
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 1: I said I want to be a normal kid, and

715
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: I stopped playing in bands. Well, when you would play

716
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: in bands, since he was, were all professionals. How much

717
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,799
Speaker 1: rehearsal would you do during the week? We rehearsed once

718
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,399
Speaker 1: a week. We rehearse on Wednesdays, so my father would

719
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:23,040
Speaker 1: drive me there and then on weekends my father would

720
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: go to every single show. I never played any anywhere

721
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: that my father didn't go. That's a pretty dedicated father. Wow, absolutely,

722
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: I owe the performer you see today is because my

723
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,879
Speaker 1: father was willing to do that and he loved it too,

724
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: and we were very close. It was wonderful. And uh,

725
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 1: what role did you play in these bands? Well? First

726
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 1: I was just the singer, the girls singer, and I

727
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: would get up and sing Tammy Wynett, you know, stand

728
00:44:54,360 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 1: by your man and um. Then as the band's pur gressed,

729
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: it got a little bit more pop music and I

730
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:07,879
Speaker 1: we would play guitar. I would play rhythm guitar. Then

731
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: in one of my bands, the organ player taught me

732
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: how to play bass. And he taught me, uh organ

733
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: and you know, synthesizers stuff, and so I would I

734
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: would also double He would play bass and I would

735
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: double on the keyboards and um. So eventually I was

736
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: a keyboard player, organ player. I didn't play much bass

737
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 1: because I was a little but guitar player and singer,

738
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: you know, lead singer. And at what point did you

739
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: start writing songs? Well, let's started writing when I was

740
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: about ten or eleven. Of course they were very simple

741
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: songs and and the the beauty of playing in cover

742
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,440
Speaker 1: bands is you learn about songs. You play other people's

743
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: songs that are popular, and you learn it just becomes

744
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: obvious to you what makes them good. You you learned

745
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 1: the form of a song, long you learn the power

746
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 1: behind the song. You know. You keep being playing other

747
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: people's material until you start writing and going okay, this

748
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: is this is how it is. And it wasn't until

749
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: I started playing solo in my twenties that I actually

750
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: played my original music for people. Okay, so you're in

751
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: high school. Both your parents graduated from college. What were

752
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:29,480
Speaker 1: the expectations and how did you deal with that? Oh,

753
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: I was supposed to go to college because my sister

754
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:35,840
Speaker 1: was disappointing, and she was she didn't even graduate high school,

755
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,360
Speaker 1: so you know, I was supposed to go to college. Well.

756
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,919
Speaker 1: As as my high school years went on, my mother

757
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 1: saw that I was not interested in anything but music.

758
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:49,359
Speaker 1: She insisted I go take like music theory courses at

759
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: the University of Missouri, you know, Kansas City, the Conservatory

760
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: and stuff, and so I took some and then she said,

761
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: you know, then when they said you're going to go

762
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 1: to college, I looked at it as well, that'll get

763
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: me out of this little town. And so we went

764
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: and looked at colleges but in nine you couldn't. You

765
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: couldn't major. You couldn't. I would have had two major

766
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: in singing. They only had voice and it was all

767
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: operarettic and I was not an opera singer at all.

768
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: And so the only college was this kind of new

769
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 1: college in Boston called Berkeley College of Music that was

770
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 1: a jazz h college and they I could major in guitar.

771
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,600
Speaker 1: So uh, I'm like, all right, sign me up. And

772
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 1: I didn't even go check out the school. I just

773
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:45,000
Speaker 1: you know, we paid the tuition. At the time, it

774
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: was just you didn't even have to audition. They just

775
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: took whoever wanted to come. And um, I got in,

776
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,799
Speaker 1: and you know, my life changes. I'm in Boston, I'm

777
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:00,080
Speaker 1: on my own. It's I'm eighteen, nineteen years old. And

778
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,720
Speaker 1: uh so I went to Brooklyn College Music for about

779
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,760
Speaker 1: one semester. That was about it. And then I dropped

780
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 1: out and started working and playing in a restaurant and

781
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:12,480
Speaker 1: making a living. So my parents couldn't say anything. They said,

782
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: as long as yourself sufficient, okay, but you know, there

783
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:21,239
Speaker 1: you go. Okay, needless to say, the odds of success

784
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:24,439
Speaker 1: in the music business as a performer, to say they're

785
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: low is you know, gross understatement? So along the way,

786
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: did people say did you tell them your dream and

787
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 1: then they like roll their eyes and say, You're never

788
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,080
Speaker 1: gonna make it? Did you ever think of going straight?

789
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: Did people for they say you should go straight? You know?

790
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,440
Speaker 1: When I was very young and I'd say, oh, I'm

791
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: going to be a singer, I got a lot of

792
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 1: eye rolling or a lot of really confused people like

793
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,839
Speaker 1: what you're gonna be? What you know, no girls are

794
00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: nurses or you know, teachers or something. But the older

795
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: that I got and the more that I was actually

796
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:08,799
Speaker 1: performing in bands, people would go, well, good luck, you know,

797
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: and even my parents, even my mother, who was not supportive,

798
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:15,279
Speaker 1: she would not tell me, you know, you can't make it.

799
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: I remember actually asking her once I was about fourteen

800
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 1: or fifteen, I said, do you think I have a

801
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: chance of making it in the music business? And she said, well,

802
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,760
Speaker 1: you know, it's a one in a million, but who's

803
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:31,120
Speaker 1: to say you're not that one? And that was enough.

804
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:35,280
Speaker 1: That was enough to give me. Well, then you're saying

805
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 1: there's a chance, you know, and and so I was like, yeah,

806
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: who's to say I'm not the one in the in

807
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,799
Speaker 1: the million, and so I just it was such a

808
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: huge desire and calling that I was just I just

809
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,520
Speaker 1: was gonna do it wherever it took me. Did you

810
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 1: ever have a straight job? Yeah, I had a couple,

811
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 1: Like when I told you, I didn't play in bands

812
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,720
Speaker 1: when I was in my senior year in high school

813
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: because I wanted to be a kid and go to

814
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: the football games and stuff. I worked at the Kentucky

815
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: Fried Chicken and I was a packer back, which is

816
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,400
Speaker 1: one of the reasons I'll never eat it a Kentucky

817
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: Fried Chicken. But I worked there. And then when I

818
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:19,320
Speaker 1: moved to Boston, when I was at Berkeley, I wanted

819
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,759
Speaker 1: to get an apartment, and so first I got a

820
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,239
Speaker 1: job as a as a security guard at a at

821
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,640
Speaker 1: a hospital, which was really difficult work, and I was

822
00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: making seven dollars an hour. And that's when I I said,

823
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna take my guitar and I'm

824
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: gonna go down to the subway station. I'm gonna open

825
00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 1: it up and I'm gonna sing in the subway. And

826
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: I made for an hour, I made seven dollars, and

827
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,600
Speaker 1: I went, Okay, I can make the same money that

828
00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 1: I'm making you know, doing that, and I'm gonna I'm

829
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:50,880
Speaker 1: gonna try music. And that's when I walked down to

830
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: a few restaurants on Boylson Street in Boston and I

831
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 1: found one an audition that I got a job and

832
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 1: I was making twenty five bucks a night. So I

833
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: and after that I never had a real job. Okay,

834
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 1: anything positive about going to Berkeley other than the fact

835
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: that got you to Boston, Um, well, I could have

836
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: made it more positive now that I you know, look back,

837
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,360
Speaker 1: I think i'd be more a bit more of a

838
00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: uh a better, more um educated guitar player had I

839
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:27,520
Speaker 1: gotten into it. But at the time I was one

840
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:30,920
Speaker 1: of like two guitar women guitar players, So it was

841
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 1: it really wasn't a place for me now, but I

842
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 1: mean then, but now, man, it's it's a great, great school.

843
00:51:38,200 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 1: I I they gave me an honorary doctorate, so you know,

844
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:47,520
Speaker 1: I'm good. Did your mother live long enough to see that,

845
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: Yes she did? And it was really it was great.

846
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 1: It was wonderful that look mom, now my kids now

847
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,120
Speaker 1: of course, and my daughter's like, Mom, that's not real.

848
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: I'm like, I know, I know, don't worry. You have

849
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: your masters it's all beautiful. It's okay. So how hard

850
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: a decision was it? And what was the process deciding

851
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: to drop out? Oh, it was not hard at all.

852
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 1: It just happened, you know. I I had um, I

853
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:18,960
Speaker 1: had gotten the job at this restaurant was called Kins

854
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: by George, and I was playing in the lounge and

855
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:26,920
Speaker 1: one evening one of my teachers came in and sat

856
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 1: and had a couple of drinks with someone there, and

857
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:32,759
Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, that's my you know,

858
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 1: uh arrangement teacher or something. And I remember singing and like, oh,

859
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: he's gonna recognize me. And he never recognized me. He

860
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: never like realized that I was a student in his class.

861
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:49,760
Speaker 1: And I was like, I am just invisible at Berkeley.

862
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 1: And I didn't I didn't enjoy breaking music down into

863
00:52:55,719 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: theory and you know, the jazz theory of you know,

864
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: one chord has to go to another, and it was

865
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: all this rules on music and I really wasn't into

866
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:10,040
Speaker 1: it at all, and it was just kind of sucking

867
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 1: my energy out and I just went, you know what,

868
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 1: I'm making a living. I'm self sufficient, and I just

869
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: stopped going. I just stopped. Okay, what kind of material

870
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 1: were you playing? Oh, I was. It was all cover material.

871
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,040
Speaker 1: It was you know, it was lounge music. I was

872
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:33,760
Speaker 1: playing Barry Manilow and Barbara streisand and Neil Diamond and uh.

873
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,839
Speaker 1: It was nineteen seventy nine eighty at this point, and

874
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: so it was you know, the Doobie Brothers. It was.

875
00:53:41,200 --> 00:53:43,080
Speaker 1: It was just whatever was popular at the time and

876
00:53:43,160 --> 00:53:45,920
Speaker 1: a bunch of show tunes. And was it always on

877
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 1: the guitar? Do you have a keyboard too? I had

878
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,359
Speaker 1: a piano. Most of it was piano. But I did

879
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: set up my guitar and play that and and and

880
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 1: the people liked me, and I started to get a following. Okay,

881
00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: so you've established a base. You made a tweet addition

882
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 1: from Berkeley to being self sustaining. How long do you

883
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:08,400
Speaker 1: do that? And you're earning money? But it's not quite

884
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,760
Speaker 1: the path of your dream. Yeah, And I couldn't see

885
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 1: how I could get to my dream, which was that

886
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: you know California seventies, uh, folk rock sound, you know

887
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:28,000
Speaker 1: the Eagles, the the you know Fleetwood, mac Bob Seeger,

888
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: Bruce Springsteen. This this that was who was calling me.

889
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: And that was not the scene. This was nineteen eighty

890
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 1: in Boston, so it was punk, it was uh you know,

891
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: and I was playing pop show tunes in you know,

892
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,760
Speaker 1: a restaurant. So that was not what I wanted. So I, um,

893
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: I went back to Kansas City, got a job at

894
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: a hotel They're called the Granada Royale. I played in

895
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: the Lavaranda Lounge, made some more money, bought a car,

896
00:54:58,680 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: and then in too drove to l A where I

897
00:55:02,120 --> 00:55:05,880
Speaker 1: was going to be discovered and you know, be somehow

898
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: meet up with all these you know, uh rock you know,

899
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:14,879
Speaker 1: acoustic rock musicians. But when I got to l A two,

900
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:19,520
Speaker 1: it was all spandex and hair and heavy metal bands,

901
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, So I found work in

902
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: women's bars, in lesbian bars around Los Angeles, like in

903
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:33,280
Speaker 1: Long Beach in Pasadena, and um I worked for five

904
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:39,320
Speaker 1: years in those uh bars, but was able to play

905
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: my original music, was able to start performing. The performer

906
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,400
Speaker 1: you really see today really came out of the bars

907
00:55:48,440 --> 00:55:52,200
Speaker 1: where I felt comfortable, where I've supported, and um I

908
00:55:52,320 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: sort of created my own path like that, and over

909
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,719
Speaker 1: the years, many record companies came out to see me,

910
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:01,680
Speaker 1: you know, and whether they didn't sign me because I

911
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 1: was gay, I don't know, but they didn't hear the hit.

912
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:12,920
Speaker 1: And UM, finally Chris Blackwell in six late early UM

913
00:56:13,239 --> 00:56:15,920
Speaker 1: signed me. And he said, I don't know why someone

914
00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,400
Speaker 1: hasn't signed to you yet. You're amazing and and he

915
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: said to me, he goes, I think the future of

916
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 1: rock and roll has a female face, and I want

917
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: you to be on my label. Let's go back a chapter.

918
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: You buy a car, you drive to l A. Do

919
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: you know anybody in El? Yes, my my father's sister

920
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: and brother. Uh, my aunt and uncle. They were separate.

921
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: My my aunt. I slept on her couch for a

922
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: few weeks until I got a job in a in

923
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:49,440
Speaker 1: a bar and then I moved down to Long Beach.

924
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, I knew her so but that was

925
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 1: all I only knew her. Okay, you talk about the

926
00:56:56,239 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 1: lesbian bars. At what age did you realize you were gay? Oh?

927
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 1: My gosh. You know, it was hard to realize you

928
00:57:05,239 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 1: were gay in the seventies because there was no talk

929
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:12,960
Speaker 1: of gay. You didn't hear it anywhere except the you know,

930
00:57:13,040 --> 00:57:16,160
Speaker 1: derogatory comments that oh, she's a lazzie. And I remember going,

931
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 1: what's a leazie? You know? And well that's somebody who

932
00:57:18,560 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, likes girl. That's a girl who likes girls.

933
00:57:21,240 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 1: I was like, hm, you know. And it wasn't until

934
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: high school when I realized all my um, all my

935
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 1: uh m friends were getting kind of boy crazy and

936
00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: I wasn't. And I just sort of talked it up

937
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: too well, I have this different life where I go

938
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:47,080
Speaker 1: out in the weekends and play an adult, you know bars.

939
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: But I still I really wasn't boy crazy at all,

940
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 1: but I really needed to be around some girls that

941
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: I really liked, you know. And and so as I

942
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: grew kind of older in high school, I started to

943
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:04,040
Speaker 1: kind of think, you know, I think I'm different. You

944
00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 1: you just you feel different. And then you know, my

945
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 1: senior year, my when I turned seventeen, actually I I

946
00:58:12,920 --> 00:58:14,959
Speaker 1: kissed a girl and it was like, oh my god,

947
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: I'm that whatever that is. And I just knew that.

948
00:58:21,720 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: I remember seeing h I think it was Time magazine

949
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:28,920
Speaker 1: had a cover. It was it is said the Gay Liberation.

950
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: You know, it's ninety nine when that was starting. So

951
00:58:31,280 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 1: it was the first time I ever saw that when wait,

952
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: there's more people like me. So I knew I had

953
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 1: to get to like a big city. And once I

954
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: went to Boston. It was like, oh, yeah, you're gay.

955
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I could say I knew I

956
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:49,600
Speaker 1: was gay at thirteen, I could say seventeen, I'm not sure. Okay,

957
00:58:49,600 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 1: how did you end up kissing the girl? Well, she

958
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: was my best friend, you know, kind of that obsessive

959
00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 1: best friend that and um, you know, we went everywhere,

960
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 1: I did everything together when I was like sixteen. And

961
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:11,360
Speaker 1: then on my seventeenth birthday, Um, you know, we're girls,

962
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 1: are are lucky. We can you know, hey, we're having

963
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 1: a sleepover, you know. And well that sleepover on my

964
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:22,480
Speaker 1: seventeenth birthday involved a kiss. So okay, but you know,

965
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:27,840
Speaker 1: literature and movies are riddled with people who kiss somebody

966
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 1: and then that person that they kiss pull away and

967
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:36,320
Speaker 1: all kinds of negative things happened. So inspired no, it was.

968
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:41,160
Speaker 1: It was definitely, uh went both ways. And we were

969
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:45,440
Speaker 1: we were tortured girlfriends my whole senior year of high school.

970
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: We were you know, we couldn't tell anybody we we were.

971
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,400
Speaker 1: We were. We went to a church, you know, we

972
00:59:50,400 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: were involved in church, and and there was a lot

973
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 1: of ice. I saw a lot of I don't know,

974
00:59:57,280 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of fear, and it was

975
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:00,960
Speaker 1: a lot of secrecy, and it's one of the reasons

976
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:04,840
Speaker 1: that I really I'm really grateful that more of the world,

977
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:08,120
Speaker 1: that the people are coming out now and helping younger

978
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 1: gay people, because it's pretty tortuous, you know, to to

979
01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,480
Speaker 1: be different like that, and I feel like you have

980
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: no place and you have to keep something secret. So

981
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:18,960
Speaker 1: you know, it was like that for a year, and

982
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 1: then when I left for Boston, it was it was

983
01:00:20,960 --> 01:00:23,080
Speaker 1: much better. I was. I was never in the closet

984
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:25,920
Speaker 1: again after that. Once I went to Boston, I was okay.

985
01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:28,120
Speaker 1: So you went to Boston, but still, I mean, I

986
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: was living in Los Angeles, which was relatively free Los Angeles,

987
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: New York and San Francisco at the time. What was

988
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 1: it like being gay in Boston? Oh, fantastic. It was.

989
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:50,760
Speaker 1: It was disco. There was gay bars, you know down

990
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:53,720
Speaker 1: the street from me. You know, a couple it was.

991
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:58,000
Speaker 1: It was still you weren't public about it, you weren't

992
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:00,920
Speaker 1: out about it, but it was a strong community. Every

993
01:01:01,600 --> 01:01:04,280
Speaker 1: night you could go to the bar. I'd go after

994
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 1: I play, I'd go around the corner to the Prelude

995
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:09,400
Speaker 1: that was the women's bars. Buddies was the men's bar

996
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: just up the street, and you know, it was it

997
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 1: was community. There was more people, okay a little earlier

998
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:30,960
Speaker 1: than you. Uh. The biggest gay artists were in the

999
01:01:31,000 --> 01:01:35,520
Speaker 1: folk world, like Holly Neia. So who did you did?

1000
01:01:35,560 --> 01:01:38,160
Speaker 1: You say? Well, you know, who did you model yourself over?

1001
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:40,600
Speaker 1: And you say, well, this being gay doesn't matter? And

1002
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:43,000
Speaker 1: I mean not to mention the fact that was Ian Wilson.

1003
01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:46,760
Speaker 1: But there weren't you know, a plethora of successful female

1004
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:52,160
Speaker 1: rock artists. Yeah, yeah, it was. Um, I didn't see.

1005
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: I didn't even know the female artists that the lesbian

1006
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:01,200
Speaker 1: music scene until I got to long Each, you know,

1007
01:02:01,240 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles and was asked to play a women's

1008
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 1: music festival. I didn't even I hadn't even heard of

1009
01:02:07,000 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: Chris Williams and and you know, all these great lesbian artists,

1010
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:18,200
Speaker 1: this strong sort of lesbian folks scene. Um. I was

1011
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:20,240
Speaker 1: a bit of an outcast because I was rocking and

1012
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:24,320
Speaker 1: playing and kind of different. But it was very exciting

1013
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 1: to the audience, I um. And then other than that,

1014
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: I mean, I was I became a Janis Joplin fan

1015
01:02:31,360 --> 01:02:33,440
Speaker 1: because I was like, that's the rock I want to do,

1016
01:02:33,560 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 1: you know. I and I would sing a lot of

1017
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:40,560
Speaker 1: her songs. Um. Other than that, you know, Linda Ronstaff

1018
01:02:40,720 --> 01:02:44,320
Speaker 1: was one that I really, you know, enjoyed as a singer.

1019
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:46,800
Speaker 1: But there was there was not a lot of women

1020
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:51,960
Speaker 1: their heart um Pat Benatar, you know, but there was

1021
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 1: There really wasn't any that was doing exactly what I wanted,

1022
01:02:54,800 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 1: the songwriting and the acoustic rock and roll that I felt.

1023
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:04,600
Speaker 1: I I didn't see that anywhere. Okay, you're living in

1024
01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 1: Long Beach, which has certainly been a gay stronghold since

1025
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:10,960
Speaker 1: I lived in southern California, and the world is different

1026
01:03:11,120 --> 01:03:14,880
Speaker 1: because of the Internet now, but long Beach. I've a

1027
01:03:14,920 --> 01:03:16,720
Speaker 1: friend who lives in Long Beach. Now I feel the

1028
01:03:16,800 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: same thing, you know. You know, it might as well

1029
01:03:19,440 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 1: be San Diego and the music businesses in West Hollywood,

1030
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 1: Hollywood now the West side of Los Angeles. To what

1031
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 1: degree do you feel displaced? Do you try to integrate,

1032
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 1: do you try to make it? Yeah? I still felt

1033
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 1: like I was outside of Hollywood. But I realized very

1034
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: quickly when I got here in the early eighties that

1035
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,360
Speaker 1: you can't make any money unless you are a known artist.

1036
01:03:45,520 --> 01:03:48,920
Speaker 1: You you can go once a month, maybe you could

1037
01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 1: go play the the club, you know, the cabaret somewhere

1038
01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:57,480
Speaker 1: or uh god, not even the troubadoor. You couldn't even

1039
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:59,920
Speaker 1: get a job at the trouba door. You but you know,

1040
01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:02,120
Speaker 1: there was a couple of bars you can play, but

1041
01:04:02,160 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 1: it was paid to play. So there was no way

1042
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: I was going to be able to make a living

1043
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:12,960
Speaker 1: and you know, work that sort of circuit. So I

1044
01:04:13,000 --> 01:04:15,400
Speaker 1: started playing in the in the in these bars I

1045
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,960
Speaker 1: actually created that they didn't have music. I walked in

1046
01:04:18,000 --> 01:04:20,240
Speaker 1: and said, hey, can I set up my equipment in

1047
01:04:20,320 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 1: your corner and play and you can pay me twenty

1048
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:24,919
Speaker 1: five bucks? And they were like okay. So I played

1049
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:27,480
Speaker 1: it different different clubs, you know, a couple of nights here,

1050
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 1: a couple of nights there. I ended up playing five

1051
01:04:29,080 --> 01:04:34,400
Speaker 1: nights a week and making a living. But again I knew, okay,

1052
01:04:34,760 --> 01:04:38,680
Speaker 1: no record executive is gonna accidentally walk into a lesbian bar.

1053
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: You know, that's just not gonna happen. So but I

1054
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: did believe that as long as I would, you know,

1055
01:04:47,720 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: play my music and do a good job, then someday

1056
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: someone's gonna know somebody who knows somebody who's brother is

1057
01:04:53,880 --> 01:04:56,880
Speaker 1: in the music business. You know, it's going that's going

1058
01:04:56,960 --> 01:05:00,000
Speaker 1: to happen. People are gonna talk, they're gonna bring people down.

1059
01:05:00,240 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 1: And that is what happened after about a year. Um

1060
01:05:04,360 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 1: a soccer team, the women's soccer team that used to

1061
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:09,919
Speaker 1: come after the games on Saturday would come in and

1062
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:13,840
Speaker 1: have a few drinks and and watch me play. One

1063
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:17,800
Speaker 1: of their coaches was married to a manager in the

1064
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,840
Speaker 1: business and he used to manage bread. His name was

1065
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: Bill Leopold. They finally talked him into coming down to

1066
01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 1: see me in a lesbian bar and he came in

1067
01:05:27,720 --> 01:05:30,120
Speaker 1: and he was blown away and he said, look, this

1068
01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,960
Speaker 1: is this is gonna be hard. I don't know if

1069
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,680
Speaker 1: it's going to take a year or ten years, but

1070
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:39,280
Speaker 1: I think that you can make it. And he signed

1071
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:42,320
Speaker 1: me as a as as my manager. He was my

1072
01:05:42,360 --> 01:05:45,320
Speaker 1: manager for thirty years after that, and he he was

1073
01:05:45,360 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 1: the one who brought He would bring record companies to

1074
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:52,720
Speaker 1: me in these bars. He said, look, you're making a living.

1075
01:05:53,240 --> 01:05:55,440
Speaker 1: I don't want to take you out of that. If

1076
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:57,520
Speaker 1: they have a problem with it, well there you go.

1077
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:00,960
Speaker 1: And I tell you every single record in Los Angeles

1078
01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 1: over those five years came to see me and I

1079
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:05,959
Speaker 1: would go all the way up and then they bring

1080
01:06:06,000 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 1: the head guy out. And then they'd all say no

1081
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 1: over and over and over. And I don't know how

1082
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 1: much was because I was gay or how much because

1083
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:16,520
Speaker 1: they just couldn't see the hit. But um, it wasn't

1084
01:06:16,600 --> 01:06:19,680
Speaker 1: until Chris Blackwell he heard four songs. He came in

1085
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:23,360
Speaker 1: and heard four songs and went, well, yeah, I want

1086
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:26,880
Speaker 1: you on my label, and that was it. Boom done. Okay,

1087
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 1: So you never did the go to labels with your

1088
01:06:30,480 --> 01:06:35,280
Speaker 1: cassette demo, get to know the people yourself. No, No,

1089
01:06:35,880 --> 01:06:40,400
Speaker 1: he was he Uh Bill Leopold had enough contacts and

1090
01:06:40,520 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 1: knew enough heat, he had had enough artists that he

1091
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:46,080
Speaker 1: had friends and said hey, and then word of mouth

1092
01:06:46,120 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 1: got around. No, I never did another demo. Well I

1093
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:51,680
Speaker 1: did do a demo, but they was always horrible on

1094
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:54,600
Speaker 1: demos because I didn't it wasn't me. I would always

1095
01:06:54,640 --> 01:06:56,280
Speaker 1: let somebody else may and it was the eighties and

1096
01:06:56,280 --> 01:07:01,479
Speaker 1: they were horrible eighties demos, and um, I just it wasn't.

1097
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 1: It was my live performance that was the best and

1098
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: it still is. And um that's what Chris black Well

1099
01:07:08,400 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 1: saw and you never wavered, you stayed this is the dream,

1100
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:17,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it. Yeah, And I was Hey. It

1101
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 1: was enough of the dream to show up in a

1102
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: bar to know that there were people there just to

1103
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:26,439
Speaker 1: hear me sing, which was huge because before, when I'd

1104
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 1: be playing in bands, I was the background music. You know,

1105
01:07:30,200 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 1: in high school, I was the I wasn't the reason

1106
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 1: you would go to the show. It was a dance,

1107
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:37,520
Speaker 1: you know. We were we were our job was to

1108
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 1: keep people dancing. This was me by myself in the

1109
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 1: corner of a bar, and people would come sit and

1110
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 1: watch me. And that was amazing and I could have

1111
01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,040
Speaker 1: done that. I would still be doing that if, you know,

1112
01:07:49,240 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 1: if nothing else happened, because that was that was enough

1113
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 1: of a dream of how people come to see me. Okay,

1114
01:07:56,520 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 1: legendarily you cut the album that was scrapped, and we

1115
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:03,520
Speaker 1: cut the album in a matter of days. Now that

1116
01:08:03,600 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 1: I have you here, what exactly happened? Yes, that is

1117
01:08:07,160 --> 01:08:09,960
Speaker 1: what happened. I Chris Blackwell comes in, and Chris Bogwell

1118
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:14,160
Speaker 1: is a man of mystery and and he's a wealthy

1119
01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:16,960
Speaker 1: he owns Island Records and Island Pictures and he's just

1120
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 1: this guy. And so he goes, yes, I want you

1121
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:20,799
Speaker 1: all my label and then he runs off to Jamaican

1122
01:08:20,920 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 1: I don't see him for months, and so I'm like, okay,

1123
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:26,519
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to make a record and I don't know how.

1124
01:08:26,560 --> 01:08:31,160
Speaker 1: And so, um, my manager knows a producer named Jim Gaines.

1125
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 1: Fine producer. He produced uh Steve Miller band. He engineered.

1126
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 1: He's more of an engineer that then became a producer

1127
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:41,679
Speaker 1: and you know, so he worked on you know Journey.

1128
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:45,320
Speaker 1: He was a Northern California kind of San Francisco sound

1129
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:51,479
Speaker 1: kind of guy, and at the time, again it's there's

1130
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 1: a very eight sound going on. So he brings these

1131
01:08:55,400 --> 01:09:00,719
Speaker 1: musicians together, and um, I I insisted on certain drummer

1132
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:02,920
Speaker 1: and bass player that I had in my over my

1133
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 1: years there in l A. I had done some demos

1134
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:08,080
Speaker 1: and they were they were just two of the greatest

1135
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 1: musicians I've ever worked with. It was Craig Cramp, who

1136
01:09:11,439 --> 01:09:15,360
Speaker 1: was this amazing studio musician, and Kevin McCormick, who's this

1137
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:19,360
Speaker 1: you know, Jocko Pastorius type bass player. He was amazing.

1138
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:21,439
Speaker 1: And so I said, okay, well, I want these two

1139
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,320
Speaker 1: guys at least to you know, play, and so we

1140
01:09:24,400 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 1: bring them out and then he hires a guitar player

1141
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:30,000
Speaker 1: and a keyboard player and I go into the studio,

1142
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:35,320
Speaker 1: the famous record plant up in Saclito. You know, all

1143
01:09:35,320 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 1: these famous people have been in there. I'm just so

1144
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:43,639
Speaker 1: delighted to being there. And he cuts the record and it's, um,

1145
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:47,000
Speaker 1: it's you know, you play the track, and then the

1146
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: keyboard player comes in and he lays it just hours

1147
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 1: and hours of keyboard sounds. And I think there was

1148
01:09:54,160 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 1: a bit of cocaine happening too, because it kind of

1149
01:09:56,520 --> 01:10:00,000
Speaker 1: got kind of crazy. And then after days I would

1150
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,000
Speaker 1: come in and sing and my voice would just kind

1151
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:05,759
Speaker 1: of be all processed on the top. And so we finally,

1152
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:08,599
Speaker 1: you know, got enough tracks together after a couple of weeks,

1153
01:10:09,360 --> 01:10:12,839
Speaker 1: and I took him to Chris Blackwell and he said, mmmmm,

1154
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:16,720
Speaker 1: I hate this and I was like, oh no, I've

1155
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 1: lost my chance. He was very very so when the

1156
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 1: drummer in the Basebaer Kevin and Craig said, look, we

1157
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 1: understand because they had been to the bar to hear

1158
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:29,840
Speaker 1: me sing live. They said, I think we know what

1159
01:10:29,920 --> 01:10:32,639
Speaker 1: Chris Blackwell wants. Tell him to give us four days

1160
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 1: in the studio. That's all we need, and we'll cut

1161
01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 1: an album for him. And so I went back to Chris.

1162
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:40,200
Speaker 1: I said, please just give me four days cheap studio,

1163
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:43,200
Speaker 1: l A. I don't care. Just four days, he said, okay,

1164
01:10:43,600 --> 01:10:46,599
Speaker 1: and he sent one of his people to bring in.

1165
01:10:47,560 --> 01:10:50,639
Speaker 1: I had already done the photo shoot for the album

1166
01:10:50,720 --> 01:10:54,000
Speaker 1: cover and we had chosen that remember that red photo

1167
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:56,400
Speaker 1: of course, yeah, that you know, and I've got my

1168
01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:01,920
Speaker 1: head up like that. He the woman actually brought it in.

1169
01:11:02,080 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 1: She put it on the the a console in the

1170
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: studio and she said, Chris Blackwell wants you to make

1171
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:12,519
Speaker 1: this album. So it was that picture he wanted, that

1172
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 1: rock and roll picture, that woman that he saw in

1173
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:18,040
Speaker 1: the bar. That's what he wanted. And so we went

1174
01:11:18,040 --> 01:11:21,160
Speaker 1: in and drums, bass and guitar. That was It was

1175
01:11:21,200 --> 01:11:25,559
Speaker 1: just me, Kevin and and Craig and we recorded all

1176
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:28,200
Speaker 1: day long and we recorded those ten tracks on that

1177
01:11:28,320 --> 01:11:31,960
Speaker 1: first album. And we and we brought Wady walk Tell

1178
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,960
Speaker 1: in to just play some guitar, which you know, he's

1179
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:39,200
Speaker 1: legendary guitar player, so that you know, bring me some

1180
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:42,719
Speaker 1: water and and like the way I do, that's him playing.

1181
01:11:43,479 --> 01:11:47,240
Speaker 1: And we added a little bit of keyboard later just

1182
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:50,479
Speaker 1: for some pad turned it in, he loved it, and

1183
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:54,360
Speaker 1: the rest is history. And how did Nicolo get involved.

1184
01:11:55,120 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 1: Craig and Kevin knew him, and they said, this is

1185
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:00,760
Speaker 1: the guy we want to engineer because Ko was a

1186
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:03,479
Speaker 1: madman and he would he would do Neil Young and

1187
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 1: Crazy Horse, so he knew he knew how to make

1188
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 1: a small live band sound huge, and that's exactly what

1189
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:14,400
Speaker 1: he did. He was so good. He he took all

1190
01:12:14,439 --> 01:12:16,759
Speaker 1: the effects off my voice. If you listen, my voice

1191
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:21,400
Speaker 1: is so dry. It was. It was revolutionary at the time.

1192
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:24,640
Speaker 1: Nothing else was sounding like that. So I was so

1193
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:28,519
Speaker 1: grateful for Nico. Okay, give Me Some Water? Was that

1194
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:34,800
Speaker 1: written before the red cut? Actually, yes, it was. It

1195
01:12:34,880 --> 01:12:39,960
Speaker 1: was the original songs after after he didn't like that

1196
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:42,760
Speaker 1: first record. I had a few weeks before we went

1197
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:45,559
Speaker 1: back into the studio again, and that's when I wrote

1198
01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:48,840
Speaker 1: bring Me Some Water. And I'm so grateful for that

1199
01:12:48,880 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 1: because that ended up being, you know, the huge hit.

1200
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 1: And um, I just I just was sitting in my

1201
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 1: living room and it was like it was kind of

1202
01:12:58,800 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 1: like a blues riff, but it was, you know, I

1203
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 1: sped it up a little bit and dat you know,

1204
01:13:06,360 --> 01:13:10,680
Speaker 1: just this bluesy rock riff, simple song. My girlfriend at

1205
01:13:10,680 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 1: the time was off with somebody else. I was burning

1206
01:13:13,200 --> 01:13:18,360
Speaker 1: Alive really easy to write the song. And when we

1207
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,880
Speaker 1: went back in the studio, said, hey, I've wrote this song.

1208
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:22,559
Speaker 1: What do you think? And we just bamed. We just

1209
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:25,599
Speaker 1: recorded it and there it was. But let's just go

1210
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:30,600
Speaker 1: back to the inspiration. Your girlfriend? What was too? You know,

1211
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:36,000
Speaker 1: what got you going? Uh? Well? I was, Um, how

1212
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:38,719
Speaker 1: do I say? I was? I was in a non

1213
01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:44,879
Speaker 1: monogamous relationship. But we lived together and um for years,

1214
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:50,320
Speaker 1: for four or five years we were together, and um,

1215
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:53,280
Speaker 1: she was wonderful and I really liked her. But we

1216
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:54,920
Speaker 1: both you know, we were young, we were in our

1217
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 1: twenties and you know, experimenting and moving, just meeting other people.

1218
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:02,880
Speaker 1: And she would go off to these uh women's music

1219
01:14:02,920 --> 01:14:05,479
Speaker 1: festivals by herself, and you know, I just knew that

1220
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:08,479
Speaker 1: she was because we had this open relationship. It's like, okay,

1221
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:10,840
Speaker 1: I know exactly what you're doing. That's why bring me

1222
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 1: some water? Is you know tonight? I feels so weak,

1223
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:15,320
Speaker 1: but you know, all in love is fair. You know,

1224
01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 1: I turned the other cheek. But man, this sucks, you know,

1225
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:20,439
Speaker 1: and and I know you're only human. I haven't got

1226
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 1: talking rome because I've had other girlfriends and all kinds

1227
01:14:23,400 --> 01:14:26,000
Speaker 1: of stuff so and so it's just like I don't

1228
01:14:26,080 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: like this. I can't. I can't say I'm totally been

1229
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:32,360
Speaker 1: done wrong because you know I'm doing it too. But

1230
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 1: somebody bring me some more. I'm just I just don't

1231
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:41,120
Speaker 1: like this. Okay, So that's your first hit. Subsequent to that,

1232
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:44,920
Speaker 1: how do you write your songs? Do you wait for

1233
01:14:44,960 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 1: the inspiration? Do you sit down and say I need

1234
01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:51,680
Speaker 1: ten songs? How do you do it? Oh? Well, by

1235
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:54,679
Speaker 1: that point I would write all day long. I would.

1236
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:57,760
Speaker 1: I I had my job at the bar five nights

1237
01:14:57,760 --> 01:15:01,160
Speaker 1: a week, but I'd wake up at you know, ten

1238
01:15:01,240 --> 01:15:04,639
Speaker 1: eleven noon, and I'd have a couple of hours. I'd

1239
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:06,320
Speaker 1: make myself some food and I would just sit down

1240
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:08,280
Speaker 1: and write, and it was whatever I was going through.

1241
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:12,320
Speaker 1: Sometimes like bring me some water and like the way

1242
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:15,360
Speaker 1: I do and songs like that. I had specific things

1243
01:15:15,360 --> 01:15:18,240
Speaker 1: that I got to write about this. Other times it

1244
01:15:18,320 --> 01:15:21,439
Speaker 1: was just mining, you know, what was inside? What were

1245
01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:23,839
Speaker 1: my questions, what were my desires, what were my pains,

1246
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:26,479
Speaker 1: what were my hopes? You know, and and just writing

1247
01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:30,679
Speaker 1: from that. But I wrote all the time. That was then.

1248
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:35,599
Speaker 1: But then as time plays out, how do you write? Oh? Yeah,

1249
01:15:35,920 --> 01:15:42,599
Speaker 1: much different now, mama has to make time. Okay, okay, kids, wife, family, managers, everybody.

1250
01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:45,680
Speaker 1: I'm working from ten to two, do not you know,

1251
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:48,360
Speaker 1: and disrupt me. Yeah, I used to. I laugh about that.

1252
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 1: I said, Oh my god. I used to have my

1253
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:53,200
Speaker 1: notebooks all over my bed and I just all day long,

1254
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:55,639
Speaker 1: just you know, just wrote, and I had nothing but that.

1255
01:15:56,040 --> 01:16:00,320
Speaker 1: Now I have to make time, and you make time.

1256
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:03,800
Speaker 1: It's a start from scratch. Or are you in the

1257
01:16:03,880 --> 01:16:06,000
Speaker 1: shower and you get an idea and then have to

1258
01:16:06,120 --> 01:16:08,680
Speaker 1: run to the piano, or oh my gosh, why is

1259
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:12,240
Speaker 1: it that the shower is so inspirational? The shower and

1260
01:16:12,640 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 1: driving the car the two times that I can't stop

1261
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 1: and you know, write anything down is when the best

1262
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:25,280
Speaker 1: inspiration comes. But thank goodness, you know the last decade.

1263
01:16:25,360 --> 01:16:27,720
Speaker 1: We have a voice memo now because I can just

1264
01:16:27,840 --> 01:16:30,240
Speaker 1: I can just turn that on and sing the idea

1265
01:16:30,280 --> 01:16:31,720
Speaker 1: in there and then go back and check it later.

1266
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:34,479
Speaker 1: That's that helps me a lot. I have notes and

1267
01:16:34,560 --> 01:16:39,320
Speaker 1: voice memo that I keep all these little pieces of inspiration.

1268
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 1: Is there happening, whether I'm cooking dinner, I'm like, oh

1269
01:16:41,880 --> 01:16:43,600
Speaker 1: my god, that's great, I need to uh and I

1270
01:16:43,680 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 1: just catch it and then when I have the time,

1271
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:52,800
Speaker 1: I'll take all those little pieces and I'll put them together. Okay,

1272
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:56,360
Speaker 1: So is it more constructing the songs out of your

1273
01:16:56,400 --> 01:16:59,200
Speaker 1: notes or is it more sitting there with a blank

1274
01:16:59,200 --> 01:17:01,800
Speaker 1: piece of paper I need to write X number of

1275
01:17:01,840 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 1: songs for a new album. M Well, I try. I've

1276
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:09,519
Speaker 1: always tried not to make it a job or make

1277
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:14,760
Speaker 1: it something I had to do. Uh. I'm grateful when

1278
01:17:14,840 --> 01:17:17,960
Speaker 1: I get to have it. It's very meditative being by

1279
01:17:18,000 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 1: myself and hooking up to that creative flow that is

1280
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 1: there and then using my craft to make a song.

1281
01:17:26,200 --> 01:17:29,719
Speaker 1: That's that's my happy place, other than being on stage.

1282
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:32,360
Speaker 1: That's that's the other place I love. And if it's

1283
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:35,679
Speaker 1: isn't happening, I go okay, not today, and I walk away.

1284
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,679
Speaker 1: I don't ever, I'll never call it I have writer's

1285
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:42,280
Speaker 1: block or anything like that. It's it's it's just very

1286
01:17:42,360 --> 01:17:44,880
Speaker 1: you know, this is what I you know I want

1287
01:17:44,880 --> 01:17:49,080
Speaker 1: to do and um and so I I enjoy it

1288
01:17:49,120 --> 01:17:53,360
Speaker 1: now very much. So okay, so you deliver the album

1289
01:17:53,400 --> 01:17:59,000
Speaker 1: to Chris Blackwell, then what happens, Well, then then the

1290
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:04,040
Speaker 1: whole another world starts. I the album. Let's see I

1291
01:18:04,360 --> 01:18:07,719
Speaker 1: my I get put on my first tour he Chris album.

1292
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:13,440
Speaker 1: Chris black Will always thought that I would break huge

1293
01:18:13,479 --> 01:18:17,440
Speaker 1: in England first, like like Chrissie Hines or Jimmy Hendrix

1294
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:19,559
Speaker 1: or there's something you know He's He thought that that's

1295
01:18:19,560 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 1: where they were really gonna get me. So he put

1296
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:26,080
Speaker 1: me on as an opening act with a band called

1297
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:30,880
Speaker 1: Martin Stevenson and the Dainties, which was very unknown than two.

1298
01:18:30,920 --> 01:18:33,519
Speaker 1: So I'm the opener for an unknown band, so you

1299
01:18:33,640 --> 01:18:37,200
Speaker 1: just you can't get lower on the wrong. And yet

1300
01:18:37,320 --> 01:18:41,920
Speaker 1: I'm playing these little clubs in you know, I'm going

1301
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 1: to Leads, you know, and and uh Birmingham and Manchester,

1302
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:50,720
Speaker 1: and I'm playing all over England and in the meantime

1303
01:18:50,840 --> 01:18:57,080
Speaker 1: the record is just starting to be played and every

1304
01:18:57,080 --> 01:19:01,759
Speaker 1: English speaking country and some aren't, like you know, Holland

1305
01:19:01,800 --> 01:19:05,679
Speaker 1: and Germany and but Australia and Canada and even America,

1306
01:19:05,960 --> 01:19:12,719
Speaker 1: all of them are playing my Bring Me Some Water. England, nothing, Zeros, nothing,

1307
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:16,920
Speaker 1: And it's still to this day nothing, you know. And

1308
01:19:17,160 --> 01:19:19,639
Speaker 1: I have like a small cult following there. I can tour,

1309
01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:22,640
Speaker 1: I can play London and maybe another city. But it

1310
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:25,320
Speaker 1: was so funny, so they took me off of that

1311
01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:28,160
Speaker 1: tour when things started happening in America and I got

1312
01:19:28,200 --> 01:19:30,240
Speaker 1: on my own tour and I played. I started playing

1313
01:19:30,280 --> 01:19:32,760
Speaker 1: clubs and it was just wonderful. And then I got

1314
01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:36,320
Speaker 1: a I got the opening act for Bruce Hornsby when

1315
01:19:36,400 --> 01:19:39,400
Speaker 1: his music was just taken off. So I did some

1316
01:19:39,479 --> 01:19:41,920
Speaker 1: of that. I came back to Europe. I opened for

1317
01:19:42,000 --> 01:19:45,400
Speaker 1: Huey Lewis. That was big, and so you know, I

1318
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:47,280
Speaker 1: got to play the big things, and then my own

1319
01:19:47,600 --> 01:19:50,400
Speaker 1: when I would play my own gigs, it went from

1320
01:19:50,479 --> 01:19:53,479
Speaker 1: the clubs to theaters and it was just a slow,

1321
01:19:54,320 --> 01:20:00,200
Speaker 1: wonderful experience. Well, the record was successful pretty early in

1322
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:05,439
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. How long did you work that record and

1323
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:06,960
Speaker 1: then in the back of your mind you had to

1324
01:20:06,960 --> 01:20:11,360
Speaker 1: cut another record? Oh well, I was. I was working

1325
01:20:11,400 --> 01:20:15,280
Speaker 1: the record, and I had songs. I was already playing

1326
01:20:15,360 --> 01:20:18,479
Speaker 1: songs live that weren't on the first record. I was

1327
01:20:18,479 --> 01:20:21,639
Speaker 1: already playing No Souvenirs and Brave and Crazy and skin Deep.

1328
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:25,920
Speaker 1: These songs were part of my act already, and so

1329
01:20:25,960 --> 01:20:27,240
Speaker 1: I'm like, when do we get to go back in

1330
01:20:27,320 --> 01:20:30,240
Speaker 1: the studio. I'm ready, I'm ready. So we were in

1331
01:20:30,320 --> 01:20:34,560
Speaker 1: the studio recording the second or actually I was rehearsing

1332
01:20:34,720 --> 01:20:38,200
Speaker 1: to go into the studio when I got the news

1333
01:20:38,200 --> 01:20:42,519
Speaker 1: that I had been nominated for Grammy for Best Rock Female,

1334
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:48,760
Speaker 1: and that that performance on that Grammys really sent my

1335
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:52,840
Speaker 1: career into another I just it went crazy after that,

1336
01:20:53,600 --> 01:20:56,479
Speaker 1: not crazy, but you know, it really took a big leap,

1337
01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:59,720
Speaker 1: and so I went back in the studio, recorded and

1338
01:20:59,800 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 1: just kept I'm basically toured for eight years straight, just touring,

1339
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:08,839
Speaker 1: going back in the studio for a couple of weeks,

1340
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:12,240
Speaker 1: touring for a year, the album comes out, touring just

1341
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:16,720
Speaker 1: all the way up til my like you know six.

1342
01:21:16,960 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 1: That was basically the whole thing. So what's the backstory?

1343
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:24,639
Speaker 1: Do you can sleep while I drive? Oh? See? That

1344
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:28,840
Speaker 1: was I wrote that when I was on tour with

1345
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:34,720
Speaker 1: Martin Stevens in the Dainties. I'm in um England for weeks, right,

1346
01:21:34,760 --> 01:21:40,080
Speaker 1: and this is England and there is not Yeah, I mean,

1347
01:21:40,320 --> 01:21:44,080
Speaker 1: you know the English are are food challenged, right, they

1348
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:46,880
Speaker 1: just they just I mean I can only eat so

1349
01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:50,280
Speaker 1: many Indian food dinners, you know. But I really was

1350
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:53,480
Speaker 1: missing America. I was missing American food. I was missing America.

1351
01:21:53,760 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 1: I was missing my relationship. And I knew, oh, a

1352
01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:00,120
Speaker 1: non monogamous relationship where I'm gone for six weeks. I

1353
01:22:00,240 --> 01:22:05,040
Speaker 1: know she's with somebody doing something and it you can

1354
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:08,360
Speaker 1: sleep while I drive. Was written in England and Germany

1355
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:12,080
Speaker 1: when I was thinking about a trip I had taken

1356
01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:16,920
Speaker 1: in America with my girlfriend where we drove from California

1357
01:22:17,040 --> 01:22:20,439
Speaker 1: to New York City and back and I played little

1358
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:23,960
Speaker 1: clubs along the way. This was right when Chris black

1359
01:22:24,000 --> 01:22:25,880
Speaker 1: Will found me. But I had booked this little tour

1360
01:22:25,960 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 1: for the summer because I had to get out of town.

1361
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:31,880
Speaker 1: I was just crazy. So I was now in England

1362
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:34,720
Speaker 1: looking back, saying let's take that trip again. Come on,

1363
01:22:34,800 --> 01:22:38,920
Speaker 1: let's let's go do this and you can sleep while

1364
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:43,680
Speaker 1: I drive. It's like yet, I know she's she's you know,

1365
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 1: fading away. So and in the end I'm like, well,

1366
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 1: if you won't take me with you, I'll go before

1367
01:22:48,439 --> 01:22:50,880
Speaker 1: night is through and you can sleep while I leave

1368
01:22:50,960 --> 01:22:56,479
Speaker 1: and I drive. Okay, that album has some success, not

1369
01:22:56,640 --> 01:23:01,960
Speaker 1: as much as the debut album. Third album comes out

1370
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 1: theme Team, They're really first, how do you decide to

1371
01:23:08,360 --> 01:23:11,800
Speaker 1: be nude on the cover or the album? That was

1372
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:14,760
Speaker 1: just that was me. It was the same photographer I

1373
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:17,599
Speaker 1: had used for the second album, so I was very

1374
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:19,840
Speaker 1: familiar with the wonderful guy. I don't remember his name

1375
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:23,559
Speaker 1: right now, but um, it was. It was just me

1376
01:23:23,640 --> 01:23:25,920
Speaker 1: and him in the studio and we've been taking pictures

1377
01:23:26,280 --> 01:23:31,800
Speaker 1: and I'm of course an absolute Springsteen you know, fan fanatic,

1378
01:23:32,080 --> 01:23:34,639
Speaker 1: and one of my favorite pictures is him turning around

1379
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 1: and that guitar slinging wright that and so I said,

1380
01:23:37,520 --> 01:23:41,599
Speaker 1: I said, dude, I wanna I wanna like kind of

1381
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:43,600
Speaker 1: give a nod to that picture, but I want to

1382
01:23:43,600 --> 01:23:45,479
Speaker 1: do my own way. I said, what if I take

1383
01:23:45,560 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 1: my shirt off? And he's like cool, but you know

1384
01:23:49,240 --> 01:23:51,800
Speaker 1: I'm not. You know, it was basically, okay, you turned

1385
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:53,720
Speaker 1: around and I took I took it off, and I

1386
01:23:53,760 --> 01:23:58,160
Speaker 1: got I got already and he was, you know, twenty

1387
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:00,640
Speaker 1: behind me taking the picture. So and there was no

1388
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:02,800
Speaker 1: one else there, so there wasn't anything like that, but

1389
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:06,840
Speaker 1: it was my idea. We did like, you know, ten

1390
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:10,280
Speaker 1: shots of of that, and we then we did some

1391
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:15,519
Speaker 1: with my shirt on. And then when he developed the pictures,

1392
01:24:15,560 --> 01:24:18,960
Speaker 1: I was like, that's cool, come on, let's do that.

1393
01:24:19,479 --> 01:24:22,439
Speaker 1: And I didn't realize that there was a tiny because

1394
01:24:22,439 --> 01:24:24,160
Speaker 1: it was it was for C d S, which is

1395
01:24:24,200 --> 01:24:26,240
Speaker 1: you know, it was a tiny picture. It wasn't until

1396
01:24:26,280 --> 01:24:29,360
Speaker 1: I had a huge poster of it that I realized, oh,

1397
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:32,200
Speaker 1: there's a little bit of my girls showing right, you know, right,

1398
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 1: just just a tiny bit. Many women, almost all women,

1399
01:24:38,560 --> 01:24:45,479
Speaker 1: are anxious about being photographed without clothing. Was that's something

1400
01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:51,960
Speaker 1: that crossed your mind? Was there retouching the ultimate product? No? No, no,

1401
01:24:52,160 --> 01:24:54,840
Speaker 1: we let it. We totally let it fly. And it

1402
01:24:54,920 --> 01:24:57,400
Speaker 1: wasn't to me. It was just my back, you know,

1403
01:24:57,520 --> 01:25:01,080
Speaker 1: it wasn't. I didn't think of it as like, oh,

1404
01:25:01,400 --> 01:25:04,080
Speaker 1: you know, naked e like you know, a playboy or something.

1405
01:25:04,120 --> 01:25:06,360
Speaker 1: It was there was some power in it. You know,

1406
01:25:06,439 --> 01:25:09,720
Speaker 1: my hair was all long, there was my guitar. I

1407
01:25:09,800 --> 01:25:14,200
Speaker 1: just didn't have a shirt on, and um, it seemed

1408
01:25:14,240 --> 01:25:17,040
Speaker 1: powerful to me. I remember at the time when it

1409
01:25:17,080 --> 01:25:21,440
Speaker 1: came out, there was a moment when Walmart was threatening

1410
01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:24,320
Speaker 1: to not put it on its on the shelves, and

1411
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:27,599
Speaker 1: I was like what And I had to like call

1412
01:25:27,720 --> 01:25:30,760
Speaker 1: the head of the Walmart and I talked, and I

1413
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 1: think it was a woman and I'm like, no, no, no, no, no,

1414
01:25:32,520 --> 01:25:35,160
Speaker 1: it's and I calmed her down and they ended up

1415
01:25:35,200 --> 01:25:37,240
Speaker 1: selling it. But man, if you don't have Walmart, you're

1416
01:25:37,320 --> 01:25:43,360
Speaker 1: you're in trouble. Absolutely. So from the outside, it looks

1417
01:25:43,439 --> 01:25:46,599
Speaker 1: like the third album is not as commercially successful as

1418
01:25:46,640 --> 01:25:50,120
Speaker 1: the two previous albums. Was that your sensation or it

1419
01:25:50,200 --> 01:25:53,560
Speaker 1: wasn't that way? From the inside, it was my sensation.

1420
01:25:53,680 --> 01:25:58,519
Speaker 1: At this point, I had UH. I had a certain

1421
01:25:59,080 --> 01:26:04,080
Speaker 1: amount of success, but it was still that sort of

1422
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:09,759
Speaker 1: I had not broken through rock RADI I played rock radio,

1423
01:26:10,479 --> 01:26:14,080
Speaker 1: but I had no pop airplay. I had UH. And

1424
01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:16,960
Speaker 1: then there was this new you know, grunge music was

1425
01:26:17,000 --> 01:26:19,479
Speaker 1: coming out, and I'm like and and alternative, and I

1426
01:26:19,520 --> 01:26:22,160
Speaker 1: was like, hey, I'm alternative. I'm about as alternatives you

1427
01:26:22,160 --> 01:26:25,559
Speaker 1: can get, you know. And I hadn't come out as

1428
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:29,519
Speaker 1: gay yet. But I at that point, after three albums,

1429
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:33,879
Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, I'm done writing genderless and and speaking

1430
01:26:33,920 --> 01:26:37,559
Speaker 1: in you know, riddles and things, you know. And and

1431
01:26:37,680 --> 01:26:41,880
Speaker 1: I told myself, I'm going to come out publicly on

1432
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:43,880
Speaker 1: this next record. I'm just gonna do it. And I

1433
01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:46,639
Speaker 1: had a plan to do it on the Arsenio Hall

1434
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:50,400
Speaker 1: Show because he would actually sit and talk to me.

1435
01:26:50,479 --> 01:26:54,040
Speaker 1: He was the only late night talk show hosted otherwise

1436
01:26:54,080 --> 01:26:58,080
Speaker 1: you know, Letterman and Leno, you just you. I would

1437
01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:00,679
Speaker 1: just sing and and that's it, and I Ar Senior

1438
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:02,479
Speaker 1: would talk to me. So I was like, Okay, when

1439
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:05,439
Speaker 1: the album comes out, I'm going to come out on

1440
01:27:05,479 --> 01:27:09,120
Speaker 1: their center hall. Well, in the meantime i'm making the album,

1441
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:15,639
Speaker 1: I'm working with some of the great LGBT leaders, uh,

1442
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:18,920
Speaker 1: you know in our community, Orbis Evade and and Alan

1443
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:22,040
Speaker 1: hergot in these and they keep calling me to do oh,

1444
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:24,519
Speaker 1: come do a benefit for this. And I'm really deep

1445
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:28,880
Speaker 1: in the in the political because AIDS is raging, you know,

1446
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:34,760
Speaker 1: and it's it's this is nineteen and I'm feeling very

1447
01:27:34,760 --> 01:27:38,040
Speaker 1: called by the community. And so I helped them. And

1448
01:27:38,040 --> 01:27:44,200
Speaker 1: in ninety two I helped uh the Clinton Gore campaign

1449
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:48,240
Speaker 1: and all the the gay communities that was coming together

1450
01:27:48,760 --> 01:27:51,559
Speaker 1: to help them get elected. And so I do a

1451
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:54,400
Speaker 1: bunch of benefits and I'm politically involved, and I get

1452
01:27:54,439 --> 01:28:01,840
Speaker 1: invited to the Clinton inauguration and so um, when I

1453
01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:04,400
Speaker 1: played the night before the inauguration, I do that. I'm

1454
01:28:04,400 --> 01:28:06,639
Speaker 1: one of the people in the show. It's Michael Jackson

1455
01:28:06,760 --> 01:28:10,280
Speaker 1: and Ray Charles and all these great singers and things,

1456
01:28:10,320 --> 01:28:12,680
Speaker 1: and and I'm part of it and I'm loving that.

1457
01:28:12,960 --> 01:28:15,720
Speaker 1: And then the next day is the inauguration. And then

1458
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:20,200
Speaker 1: that night at the inaugural balls, and the gay community

1459
01:28:20,439 --> 01:28:23,639
Speaker 1: is having a triangle ball. It's the first gay inaugural ball.

1460
01:28:23,760 --> 01:28:26,439
Speaker 1: Was the first time we were invited to Washington, and

1461
01:28:26,479 --> 01:28:30,320
Speaker 1: so I'm there with my friends and I get handed

1462
01:28:30,320 --> 01:28:32,439
Speaker 1: a microphone and I say, oh, I'm just so happy

1463
01:28:32,439 --> 01:28:35,559
Speaker 1: to be lesbian, and bam, that was me coming out.

1464
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:38,920
Speaker 1: The next day, you know, the newspapers are all, you know,

1465
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:41,880
Speaker 1: Clinton inauguration, and there's a little tiny little blurb says

1466
01:28:42,240 --> 01:28:45,599
Speaker 1: and at the gay triangle ballm Melissa Ethridge comes out.

1467
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:52,840
Speaker 1: And so that started a whole another area of my

1468
01:28:52,920 --> 01:28:56,439
Speaker 1: life that people wanted to talk about now. And so

1469
01:28:56,560 --> 01:29:00,880
Speaker 1: once my album came out a few months later, I

1470
01:29:00,960 --> 01:29:05,560
Speaker 1: had a whole new platform. I was out, I had recorded,

1471
01:29:06,200 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 1: I had gone to the studio without Um. Kevin wasn't

1472
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:12,559
Speaker 1: going to produce anymore. Kevin had been co producer on

1473
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:17,519
Speaker 1: my first three and UM. We were trying something new.

1474
01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:20,160
Speaker 1: Chris Blackwell said, you know, I want to bring in

1475
01:29:20,360 --> 01:29:24,360
Speaker 1: Hugh Pagum, who had done Sting and so many great records.

1476
01:29:24,400 --> 01:29:27,280
Speaker 1: He was a very successful producer, and it was a

1477
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:32,479
Speaker 1: different experience. We worked at A and M and UM.

1478
01:29:32,479 --> 01:29:37,040
Speaker 1: You know, making these these songs, and so when Yes

1479
01:29:37,120 --> 01:29:39,680
Speaker 1: I Am comes out, it's kind of okay, it's a

1480
01:29:39,720 --> 01:29:43,479
Speaker 1: different ballpark. The record company is ready to make it,

1481
01:29:44,400 --> 01:29:47,840
Speaker 1: take a jump, make it, you know, be big. And

1482
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:53,559
Speaker 1: it took over a year for anything to really for

1483
01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:59,200
Speaker 1: it all to go. And I never had a top

1484
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:03,600
Speaker 1: ten hit on Yes I Am, but I had the

1485
01:30:03,760 --> 01:30:06,400
Speaker 1: record for a long time of the of Come to

1486
01:30:06,439 --> 01:30:10,800
Speaker 1: My Window was the held the record for being on

1487
01:30:10,880 --> 01:30:16,200
Speaker 1: the charts for the longest time because everyone never played

1488
01:30:16,200 --> 01:30:18,280
Speaker 1: it together. You know how you get all the radio

1489
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:21,120
Speaker 1: stations and then you get your number one. I was

1490
01:30:21,160 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 1: always you know, number twenty or thirty or something, but

1491
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:28,800
Speaker 1: every radio station ended up playing my music. So it's

1492
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:32,320
Speaker 1: this sort of long haul, like Yes I was never

1493
01:30:32,720 --> 01:30:35,640
Speaker 1: nominated for a Grammy, you know, the album wasn't. The

1494
01:30:35,680 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 1: song Come to My Window was, And I did win

1495
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:42,519
Speaker 1: for that, but um, you know, but that was a

1496
01:30:42,600 --> 01:30:45,360
Speaker 1: whole new chapter. I had a whole new band because

1497
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:48,080
Speaker 1: Kevin got mad and left, so I put a whole

1498
01:30:48,080 --> 01:30:52,519
Speaker 1: new band together. So after that third album, making of

1499
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:55,240
Speaker 1: and the release of Yes I Am, was a whole

1500
01:30:55,240 --> 01:31:05,920
Speaker 1: new chapter in my life. Yeah, Okay, whose decision was

1501
01:31:06,000 --> 01:31:08,519
Speaker 1: it to be and I used my air quotes here

1502
01:31:08,560 --> 01:31:12,479
Speaker 1: people can't see closeted. Prior to the fourth album, that

1503
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:19,040
Speaker 1: was uh yeah, that was sort of you know, the

1504
01:31:19,080 --> 01:31:22,120
Speaker 1: first of the late eighties. You you didn't come Nobody

1505
01:31:22,160 --> 01:31:25,360
Speaker 1: came out. No one was coming out. You know. It

1506
01:31:25,439 --> 01:31:27,760
Speaker 1: wasn't something you did. It was either you were either

1507
01:31:27,840 --> 01:31:31,599
Speaker 1: found out there was either a tabloid that that found

1508
01:31:31,600 --> 01:31:33,680
Speaker 1: you and did a story. But I wasn't famous enough

1509
01:31:33,720 --> 01:31:38,519
Speaker 1: for tabloids to come chasing after me, and um. I

1510
01:31:38,800 --> 01:31:45,240
Speaker 1: remember having a meeting with my uh my record company,

1511
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:47,160
Speaker 1: in my management. We're all sitting around to you know,

1512
01:31:47,240 --> 01:31:49,479
Speaker 1: a conference table, and they said, well, what are we

1513
01:31:49,479 --> 01:31:52,880
Speaker 1: gonna do about this gay thing? And I was like

1514
01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:55,120
Speaker 1: this gay. I said, well, I'm not gonna be anything

1515
01:31:55,160 --> 01:31:57,360
Speaker 1: but what I am. I'm certainly not going to, you know,

1516
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:00,920
Speaker 1: pretend to date the boy ors thing. That's not gonna happen.

1517
01:32:00,960 --> 01:32:03,559
Speaker 1: They said, well, okay, is as long as you don't

1518
01:32:03,640 --> 01:32:07,360
Speaker 1: flag wave was what they said. And I was like, okay,

1519
01:32:07,400 --> 01:32:09,760
Speaker 1: you know whatever that means. And of course four years

1520
01:32:09,880 --> 01:32:13,080
Speaker 1: later I'm flag waving. But you know, at that point,

1521
01:32:13,680 --> 01:32:15,720
Speaker 1: by the time I came out, I remember calling them

1522
01:32:15,720 --> 01:32:19,400
Speaker 1: all and going okay, well, um, I think I came out,

1523
01:32:19,920 --> 01:32:21,960
Speaker 1: so I just want you all to know, and they're like, okay,

1524
01:32:22,000 --> 01:32:24,160
Speaker 1: we'll tell publicity, we'll just take it from there, and

1525
01:32:24,200 --> 01:32:27,519
Speaker 1: they made it something that worked for me and I

1526
01:32:27,560 --> 01:32:30,479
Speaker 1: went from selling less than a million albums to six

1527
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:35,280
Speaker 1: million albums. So it was a great thing. But it's

1528
01:32:35,320 --> 01:32:37,640
Speaker 1: not like from you telling the story. It's not like

1529
01:32:37,720 --> 01:32:41,600
Speaker 1: you were hiding it. You were involved with the organizations.

1530
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:47,439
Speaker 1: How did you get involved with Clinton's campaign? Right? Well, Um,

1531
01:32:47,479 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 1: that was that was definitely the gay organizations. And at

1532
01:32:50,479 --> 01:32:54,040
Speaker 1: the time, I swear it was sort of like, don't ask,

1533
01:32:54,120 --> 01:32:57,360
Speaker 1: don't tell. No one asked me, so I didn't have

1534
01:32:57,439 --> 01:32:59,400
Speaker 1: to lie. I didn't and I didn't tell. I didn't

1535
01:32:59,400 --> 01:33:01,320
Speaker 1: open up any then going hey I'm gay now and

1536
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:07,200
Speaker 1: I want to talk about it. It just wasn't ever asked. So, Um,

1537
01:33:07,320 --> 01:33:11,839
Speaker 1: these organizations, the in g LTF and the Human Rights Campaign,

1538
01:33:11,920 --> 01:33:16,439
Speaker 1: all these people were so these great political leaders of

1539
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:20,280
Speaker 1: the of the community, we're calling me in and that's

1540
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:22,719
Speaker 1: when they said, look, you know, this is the first

1541
01:33:23,320 --> 01:33:26,800
Speaker 1: presidential candidate that even mentioned gay and lesbian. First time

1542
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:29,840
Speaker 1: we've ever heard it come out of a politician's mouth,

1543
01:33:30,640 --> 01:33:32,840
Speaker 1: and he's willing, and he made of course, he made

1544
01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:35,960
Speaker 1: the community all these promises and ultimately broke them all.

1545
01:33:36,000 --> 01:33:39,080
Speaker 1: But at least he you know, acknowledged that we were

1546
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:43,840
Speaker 1: a voting base that he wanted to uh have on

1547
01:33:43,920 --> 01:33:49,120
Speaker 1: his side. So we got out. I I played uh

1548
01:33:49,400 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 1: many benefits for him and just raised a lot of money.

1549
01:33:54,280 --> 01:33:58,760
Speaker 1: Well as a lay person from the outside, he was

1550
01:33:58,880 --> 01:34:03,160
Speaker 1: constantly mentioned name you, you know, bringing up what kind

1551
01:34:03,160 --> 01:34:06,160
Speaker 1: of relationship did you actually have with him? And after

1552
01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 1: he got elected, what was your relationship? Like? Oh, well,

1553
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:17,400
Speaker 1: I saw him. I went to visit in when I

1554
01:34:17,439 --> 01:34:21,000
Speaker 1: did Woodstock, so that was I went to visit him

1555
01:34:22,360 --> 01:34:25,720
Speaker 1: in the in the White House. And he was just

1556
01:34:25,800 --> 01:34:30,120
Speaker 1: such a He was such a it's hard to explain

1557
01:34:30,360 --> 01:34:33,160
Speaker 1: he was. And I'm sure you've always heard people talk

1558
01:34:33,200 --> 01:34:36,719
Speaker 1: about what a figure he was, what an imposing figure,

1559
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:40,000
Speaker 1: But he was very warm and very Arkansas. So you

1560
01:34:40,080 --> 01:34:43,240
Speaker 1: always felt like you were his best friend. But still

1561
01:34:43,320 --> 01:34:46,200
Speaker 1: you were just in awe of him, and he held

1562
01:34:46,240 --> 01:34:48,559
Speaker 1: that power and he was very much like that. So,

1563
01:34:48,920 --> 01:34:50,559
Speaker 1: you know, the couple of times that I did meet him,

1564
01:34:50,560 --> 01:34:53,559
Speaker 1: I was still like that, you know, because he just

1565
01:34:53,640 --> 01:34:59,479
Speaker 1: had this thing about him, you know, subsequent to Clinton.

1566
01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:03,599
Speaker 1: W Actually he's thirty years ago. Now to what degree

1567
01:35:03,640 --> 01:35:06,720
Speaker 1: have people called you for political activity and have you

1568
01:35:06,800 --> 01:35:11,720
Speaker 1: participated since then? Oh my gosh, Well, I like to

1569
01:35:12,040 --> 01:35:14,760
Speaker 1: al Gore, and I became actually closer than I ever

1570
01:35:14,920 --> 01:35:17,679
Speaker 1: was with Clinton because I I tell people I helped

1571
01:35:17,680 --> 01:35:20,360
Speaker 1: get him elected in two thousand to be president. But

1572
01:35:20,400 --> 01:35:22,760
Speaker 1: of course we know what happened, and you know he

1573
01:35:22,960 --> 01:35:27,120
Speaker 1: Uh so I helped him with his campaign. I've helped

1574
01:35:27,200 --> 01:35:33,040
Speaker 1: oh you know Senators Feinstein and Boxer in California. I've

1575
01:35:34,120 --> 01:35:38,599
Speaker 1: I'm you know, any any any politician who who has

1576
01:35:38,920 --> 01:35:42,360
Speaker 1: a track record of you know, lgbt Q rights and

1577
01:35:42,640 --> 01:35:45,320
Speaker 1: and things like that. I will. I don't do it

1578
01:35:45,360 --> 01:35:48,280
Speaker 1: as much anymore because I was doing a lot and

1579
01:35:48,640 --> 01:35:52,479
Speaker 1: it sort of waters it down. But um, you know,

1580
01:35:52,560 --> 01:35:55,720
Speaker 1: I I definitely worked for Obama. I definitely helped him.

1581
01:35:55,760 --> 01:35:59,479
Speaker 1: That was important to me. And um I did some

1582
01:35:59,520 --> 01:36:03,280
Speaker 1: work for him lurry, you know, and uh you know.

1583
01:36:03,320 --> 01:36:06,599
Speaker 1: And so that brings us right up today. Okay, well,

1584
01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:10,280
Speaker 1: you know we're living in this tumultuous time. Is there

1585
01:36:10,320 --> 01:36:14,519
Speaker 1: any candidate that you would be aligned with for the

1586
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:19,519
Speaker 1: national stage? Well, as we as we I mean, as

1587
01:36:19,560 --> 01:36:23,559
Speaker 1: we come into the next election. Yes, yeah, well, um,

1588
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:26,120
Speaker 1: I do know Gavin Knewsom very well. I see him

1589
01:36:26,160 --> 01:36:29,479
Speaker 1: making moves and kind of conceee where that's going. So

1590
01:36:29,520 --> 01:36:31,439
Speaker 1: I would definitely support him. He not only has been

1591
01:36:31,560 --> 01:36:36,000
Speaker 1: LGBTQ friendly, but he's he's a cannabis friendly, which which

1592
01:36:36,160 --> 01:36:39,400
Speaker 1: really we need to move forward on that and um,

1593
01:36:39,439 --> 01:36:43,720
Speaker 1: you know, women's rights absolutely, so I would definitely help him. Um.

1594
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:47,200
Speaker 1: You know, at this point, you know, as I look

1595
01:36:47,280 --> 01:36:52,080
Speaker 1: at the political parties, you know, I threw my weight

1596
01:36:52,120 --> 01:36:55,120
Speaker 1: behind you know, Joe Biden because it was important to

1597
01:36:55,160 --> 01:36:58,680
Speaker 1: get him elected, even though he was way behind on

1598
01:36:58,680 --> 01:37:02,960
Speaker 1: on cannabis reform and everything. It was just really important

1599
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:06,600
Speaker 1: to get you know too, because I you know, I

1600
01:37:06,680 --> 01:37:09,800
Speaker 1: understand politics enough to you know that it's important to

1601
01:37:09,800 --> 01:37:12,800
Speaker 1: get that party in power. So and that's kind of

1602
01:37:12,800 --> 01:37:15,559
Speaker 1: how I'm approaching it now. A good friend of mine,

1603
01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:19,240
Speaker 1: had the Mazier, is running against Andy Harris for Congress

1604
01:37:19,320 --> 01:37:21,680
Speaker 1: in Maryland, and so I give her a lot of

1605
01:37:21,680 --> 01:37:23,679
Speaker 1: help because she's actually a very close friend of mine.

1606
01:37:24,240 --> 01:37:27,200
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, you'll see me out there. I think

1607
01:37:27,200 --> 01:37:30,960
Speaker 1: it's important to you so support How did you how

1608
01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:34,200
Speaker 1: did you meet al Gore and established such a relationship.

1609
01:37:34,400 --> 01:37:37,880
Speaker 1: Oh well, I met him through when he was vice

1610
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:42,599
Speaker 1: president and he he was always of the two. He

1611
01:37:42,680 --> 01:37:46,559
Speaker 1: was so very gay friendly. He really it became close

1612
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:50,679
Speaker 1: friends with friends of mine who ran the Human Rights

1613
01:37:51,160 --> 01:37:56,040
Speaker 1: Campaign and camp and fund and um. And so then

1614
01:37:56,120 --> 01:38:00,439
Speaker 1: after after I helped him, I was on the patreo

1615
01:38:00,520 --> 01:38:02,880
Speaker 1: with him for a while after we did that, and

1616
01:38:02,880 --> 01:38:06,400
Speaker 1: he lost and then he threw his work into the

1617
01:38:06,640 --> 01:38:12,400
Speaker 1: environment and his his climate change. Uh. He called me

1618
01:38:13,600 --> 01:38:16,320
Speaker 1: in like two thousand five and and said, look, they're

1619
01:38:16,320 --> 01:38:21,400
Speaker 1: they're making a documentary of my slide show on climate change.

1620
01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:24,800
Speaker 1: And I said, you know, to myself, I'm like, well

1621
01:38:24,800 --> 01:38:26,920
Speaker 1: that'll be shown in some high schools or something, you know,

1622
01:38:27,000 --> 01:38:30,880
Speaker 1: and and um. And he wanted a song for it,

1623
01:38:30,920 --> 01:38:32,479
Speaker 1: and I said, well, I would be honored. I would

1624
01:38:32,479 --> 01:38:34,120
Speaker 1: be honored to write a song for it. So, you know,

1625
01:38:34,680 --> 01:38:36,920
Speaker 1: so they put, you know, put it together and they

1626
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:38,280
Speaker 1: sent it to me, and I was like, this is

1627
01:38:38,360 --> 01:38:41,200
Speaker 1: really good. And they were called it, you know, an

1628
01:38:41,200 --> 01:38:44,320
Speaker 1: Inconvenient Truth, and I was like, well, that's a really

1629
01:38:44,360 --> 01:38:48,680
Speaker 1: difficult title to work into a song, but I'll do

1630
01:38:48,720 --> 01:38:51,320
Speaker 1: my best. And so I wrote I need to wake

1631
01:38:51,439 --> 01:38:55,160
Speaker 1: Up and to my surprise. It ended up winning an Oscar.

1632
01:38:55,200 --> 01:38:57,040
Speaker 1: And I ended up winning an Oscar, and that was

1633
01:38:57,080 --> 01:39:00,160
Speaker 1: a complete surprise to me. I had no idea that

1634
01:39:00,160 --> 01:39:03,600
Speaker 1: that little project was going to do that. So what

1635
01:39:03,760 --> 01:39:06,799
Speaker 1: was it like winning an Oscar? Yeah? That was fun.

1636
01:39:07,240 --> 01:39:10,439
Speaker 1: That was a dream come true. It was it was

1637
01:39:10,520 --> 01:39:14,040
Speaker 1: after I had gone through cancer, because cancer really really

1638
01:39:14,120 --> 01:39:17,120
Speaker 1: changed my life and and I just stopped, you know,

1639
01:39:17,240 --> 01:39:20,400
Speaker 1: chasing this sort of I need to be the biggest

1640
01:39:20,479 --> 01:39:23,519
Speaker 1: rock star. You know. It changed that sort of dream

1641
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:25,240
Speaker 1: into wait, you know, I need to do what makes

1642
01:39:25,280 --> 01:39:28,080
Speaker 1: me happy and what fulfills me and what makes me

1643
01:39:28,160 --> 01:39:31,639
Speaker 1: grow and and um. And I remember thinking, wow, okay,

1644
01:39:31,640 --> 01:39:34,400
Speaker 1: what what are some things that I do want to

1645
01:39:34,600 --> 01:39:37,519
Speaker 1: experience that I have? And I remember thinking, well, winning

1646
01:39:37,520 --> 01:39:39,600
Speaker 1: an Oscar, that's one that was a childhood you know.

1647
01:39:39,600 --> 01:39:42,720
Speaker 1: I watched I always watched the Oscars. That was the

1648
01:39:42,720 --> 01:39:46,160
Speaker 1: the height of the entertainment industry was the Oscars. And

1649
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:50,120
Speaker 1: so man, when I got nominated blew my mind and

1650
01:39:50,160 --> 01:39:54,519
Speaker 1: I was just I couldn't believe it. And then when

1651
01:39:54,560 --> 01:40:00,360
Speaker 1: I finally went there and and and realized, okay, I

1652
01:40:00,400 --> 01:40:05,479
Speaker 1: am finally at this place that I always thought was

1653
01:40:05,560 --> 01:40:11,360
Speaker 1: like the epitome of of of the entertainment business. I

1654
01:40:11,400 --> 01:40:16,360
Speaker 1: realized this is just a TV show, that all this

1655
01:40:16,600 --> 01:40:19,599
Speaker 1: is a TV show. Most of these people really don't

1656
01:40:19,640 --> 01:40:22,240
Speaker 1: know each other. I knew more people than I thought.

1657
01:40:22,240 --> 01:40:24,240
Speaker 1: I mean, by that point, Steven Spielberg was a good

1658
01:40:24,240 --> 01:40:30,479
Speaker 1: friend of mine. I knew you, I knew Okay, how

1659
01:40:30,479 --> 01:40:34,519
Speaker 1: do you know? Okay, how do you do that? Because

1660
01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:37,920
Speaker 1: I knew Tom Hanks, because I knew how did I

1661
01:40:37,960 --> 01:40:41,760
Speaker 1: meet Tom Hanks? Uh? We shared the same lawyer, went

1662
01:40:41,800 --> 01:40:45,200
Speaker 1: to dinner with it just because I lived in Hollywood,

1663
01:40:45,200 --> 01:40:47,120
Speaker 1: and you just you Brad Pitt was a good friend

1664
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:49,080
Speaker 1: of mine because I knew him before he was famous,

1665
01:40:49,120 --> 01:40:53,360
Speaker 1: and because I hung out there was this young Hollywood Uh,

1666
01:40:53,400 --> 01:40:55,479
Speaker 1: you know, a group of us that always hung out

1667
01:40:55,520 --> 01:40:59,240
Speaker 1: together and as our fame group, like Ellen. I knew

1668
01:40:59,280 --> 01:41:01,200
Speaker 1: Ellen when she was stand up Rosie when she was

1669
01:41:01,240 --> 01:41:03,559
Speaker 1: a stand up. You know these I just knew all

1670
01:41:03,560 --> 01:41:05,960
Speaker 1: these people. We've gone through the eighties and the nineties

1671
01:41:06,000 --> 01:41:10,799
Speaker 1: together and so um so I knew half the people

1672
01:41:11,240 --> 01:41:14,919
Speaker 1: at the Oscars. I knew John Travolta. You know, he's

1673
01:41:14,960 --> 01:41:18,960
Speaker 1: the one who announced my name when I won. And

1674
01:41:19,080 --> 01:41:21,400
Speaker 1: so at the end of the night, you know I'm

1675
01:41:21,439 --> 01:41:23,960
Speaker 1: carrying it's the only place that they'll actually give you

1676
01:41:24,040 --> 01:41:26,479
Speaker 1: the award that you could take it with you. And

1677
01:41:26,600 --> 01:41:29,400
Speaker 1: it's heavy, and so my arm was sore by the

1678
01:41:29,520 --> 01:41:31,160
Speaker 1: end of the night because I was carrying it all night.

1679
01:41:31,160 --> 01:41:32,680
Speaker 1: But you're not gonna let go because there it is

1680
01:41:32,680 --> 01:41:34,920
Speaker 1: as my oscar. Hey, you know. And I had a

1681
01:41:35,000 --> 01:41:39,000
Speaker 1: great time. It was a wonderful evening. You know, I

1682
01:41:39,040 --> 01:41:42,760
Speaker 1: smoked a joint with Sean Penn and Harry Dean Stanton

1683
01:41:43,040 --> 01:41:45,799
Speaker 1: and Bill Maher. You know, I just had this great

1684
01:41:46,400 --> 01:41:49,599
Speaker 1: experience and that was that was like, look I did

1685
01:41:49,640 --> 01:41:52,800
Speaker 1: that that, you know, let's bucket list off. That's great.

1686
01:41:53,000 --> 01:41:55,639
Speaker 1: But I realized it's not really a place. It's it's

1687
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:59,800
Speaker 1: a TV show. Where's the oscar right now? Oh, it's

1688
01:41:59,800 --> 01:42:02,640
Speaker 1: an office on my on my shelf next to my

1689
01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:09,000
Speaker 1: two Grammys. Okay. What was Kevin McCormick angry about. Well,

1690
01:42:09,000 --> 01:42:11,479
Speaker 1: he was angry because, um, he didn't get to produce

1691
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:15,040
Speaker 1: the fourth record. And he was angry because Chris Blackwell

1692
01:42:15,240 --> 01:42:18,599
Speaker 1: and Denny Cordell, who was the executive producer of the album,

1693
01:42:19,720 --> 01:42:23,519
Speaker 1: replaced all his parts with Pino Palladino coming in playing bass.

1694
01:42:23,520 --> 01:42:26,280
Speaker 1: Who's the greatest bass player in the world. And that

1695
01:42:26,680 --> 01:42:31,080
Speaker 1: made him mad, and so he went away. Okay, he'd

1696
01:42:31,080 --> 01:42:35,040
Speaker 1: already recorded the parts and then you know, re recorded them. Yes,

1697
01:42:35,760 --> 01:42:41,200
Speaker 1: it was it was like, that's the businessman, that's the business.

1698
01:42:42,760 --> 01:42:45,280
Speaker 1: And what was it like working with you, Pagum And

1699
01:42:45,360 --> 01:42:48,680
Speaker 1: what did he add? Oh? He was great. He was

1700
01:42:48,720 --> 01:42:52,920
Speaker 1: so English, he was so uh. You know, he would

1701
01:42:52,920 --> 01:42:57,839
Speaker 1: ask for his tuna tuna salad. He would complain because

1702
01:42:58,360 --> 01:43:00,519
Speaker 1: you know, they bring in hot water for tea and

1703
01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:02,400
Speaker 1: he's like, no, no, no, you bring in a kettle.

1704
01:43:02,479 --> 01:43:05,760
Speaker 1: I need it boiled. You know. It was very English

1705
01:43:05,800 --> 01:43:10,760
Speaker 1: and um really brilliant with sound, just really creating a

1706
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:14,360
Speaker 1: live sound. And he let me. He did. He took

1707
01:43:14,400 --> 01:43:19,760
Speaker 1: my acoustic um Ovation guitar, which is not the best acoustic.

1708
01:43:19,840 --> 01:43:23,360
Speaker 1: It's great electric, it's great on stage, but acoustically, you know,

1709
01:43:23,439 --> 01:43:25,840
Speaker 1: there's you know, your Martins and your Gibsons sound better.

1710
01:43:25,840 --> 01:43:29,760
Speaker 1: But he he made that Ovation sound wonderful. He took

1711
01:43:29,760 --> 01:43:32,400
Speaker 1: the time. He took the time to find exactly the

1712
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:35,960
Speaker 1: right microphone. He came in one day and just microphones

1713
01:43:35,960 --> 01:43:38,160
Speaker 1: were lined up and we just tried one at a

1714
01:43:38,240 --> 01:43:41,599
Speaker 1: time to see which work. He was very meticulous and

1715
01:43:41,680 --> 01:43:45,840
Speaker 1: he loved music. How did you end up playing an

1716
01:43:45,840 --> 01:43:52,320
Speaker 1: Ovation which first had a bad reputation, then the reputation evolved. Yeah, well,

1717
01:43:52,400 --> 01:43:55,040
Speaker 1: you know it was made from helicopter parts, you know,

1718
01:43:55,600 --> 01:44:00,599
Speaker 1: but it fits. I was a young woman, young girl.

1719
01:44:00,720 --> 01:44:03,200
Speaker 1: I was fourteen when I played my first one, and

1720
01:44:03,240 --> 01:44:05,400
Speaker 1: I was in love with twelve string guitar. So I

1721
01:44:05,439 --> 01:44:08,840
Speaker 1: had bought a guild which was as big as me

1722
01:44:09,479 --> 01:44:12,160
Speaker 1: and I couldn't I could barely get my arms around it,

1723
01:44:12,200 --> 01:44:15,000
Speaker 1: and it was certainly really hard to play. And so

1724
01:44:15,120 --> 01:44:17,920
Speaker 1: I took it back to the guitar store and that

1725
01:44:18,000 --> 01:44:19,240
Speaker 1: I brought it from, and I knew the guy was

1726
01:44:19,240 --> 01:44:22,080
Speaker 1: a local, you know, leven Worth store, and he said, well,

1727
01:44:22,080 --> 01:44:25,760
Speaker 1: there's this new guitar called the Ovation guitar. And he

1728
01:44:26,560 --> 01:44:30,439
Speaker 1: put one in my lap, and it's rounded back and

1729
01:44:30,439 --> 01:44:32,720
Speaker 1: it had a smaller neck, and I went, this is

1730
01:44:32,720 --> 01:44:35,719
Speaker 1: a guitar I can play and I could just plug

1731
01:44:35,760 --> 01:44:38,479
Speaker 1: it straight in. It was electric, so I could use

1732
01:44:38,479 --> 01:44:41,280
Speaker 1: it in my band. So it was perfect and I

1733
01:44:41,320 --> 01:44:48,320
Speaker 1: have always played one since then. Okay, I was totally

1734
01:44:48,360 --> 01:44:51,160
Speaker 1: aware of you, but I knew the fourth album was

1735
01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:55,519
Speaker 1: gonna go. This is significant from my perspective. I'm interested

1736
01:44:55,560 --> 01:44:59,599
Speaker 1: in your perspective. You went on Letterman and you played

1737
01:44:59,840 --> 01:45:03,639
Speaker 1: m the only One, and you were you know, your

1738
01:45:03,680 --> 01:45:06,600
Speaker 1: foot was stopping in time. It was like you really

1739
01:45:06,720 --> 01:45:08,639
Speaker 1: meant it. It It was mind blow we I've only seen,

1740
01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:12,000
Speaker 1: said O'Connor did her theme song from In the Name

1741
01:45:12,040 --> 01:45:15,840
Speaker 1: of the Father on Letterman the Thief of My Heart

1742
01:45:15,960 --> 01:45:18,880
Speaker 1: or something like that. Those are the two best performances

1743
01:45:18,920 --> 01:45:23,519
Speaker 1: I ever saw on So was that just another night

1744
01:45:23,640 --> 01:45:26,680
Speaker 1: or did you feel something too? Ah? Well, Letterman had

1745
01:45:26,680 --> 01:45:29,720
Speaker 1: always been a supporter of mine. He was a fan

1746
01:45:29,800 --> 01:45:31,800
Speaker 1: of mine, and so he was the first one I

1747
01:45:31,880 --> 01:45:34,639
Speaker 1: ever played, Bring Me Some Water. He was the first

1748
01:45:34,720 --> 01:45:38,280
Speaker 1: national television show I ever had, was the old one

1749
01:45:38,320 --> 01:45:40,800
Speaker 1: he had before he you know, the late, Late, Late

1750
01:45:40,840 --> 01:45:43,800
Speaker 1: Show or whatever he did. Yeah, And so when I

1751
01:45:43,880 --> 01:45:49,400
Speaker 1: finally played I'm the only One, I was excited. I

1752
01:45:49,439 --> 01:45:52,840
Speaker 1: was excited because I loved that song. That song was,

1753
01:45:53,320 --> 01:45:57,519
Speaker 1: that was rock, that was me, and I just knew.

1754
01:45:57,720 --> 01:46:00,080
Speaker 1: I was like, that's why we thought that was to

1755
01:46:00,160 --> 01:46:02,080
Speaker 1: be the first single. And well it was the first single,

1756
01:46:02,760 --> 01:46:06,760
Speaker 1: but it didn't catch on and people started playing come

1757
01:46:06,800 --> 01:46:08,640
Speaker 1: to My Window, and so they switched to come to

1758
01:46:08,680 --> 01:46:11,839
Speaker 1: My Window. And then later released I'm the Only One again.

1759
01:46:12,560 --> 01:46:15,120
Speaker 1: But first I thought because I was like, that's that's

1760
01:46:15,120 --> 01:46:16,920
Speaker 1: got to be the song. That's the great, you know,

1761
01:46:16,960 --> 01:46:19,559
Speaker 1: I love that people are gonna love it. And so

1762
01:46:19,640 --> 01:46:22,280
Speaker 1: I went on Letterman and it was just I just

1763
01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:25,120
Speaker 1: wanted to grab people by the throat and go, you're

1764
01:46:25,160 --> 01:46:28,280
Speaker 1: gonna remember this, and and I was very excited. I

1765
01:46:28,320 --> 01:46:31,960
Speaker 1: knew it was a big time and I've recently actually

1766
01:46:31,960 --> 01:46:34,400
Speaker 1: on YouTube I saw that performance again and I was like, man,

1767
01:46:34,439 --> 01:46:37,839
Speaker 1: I I was serious. I really I'm meant to whatever

1768
01:46:37,880 --> 01:46:41,200
Speaker 1: I was doing. Okay, you work with you, then you

1769
01:46:41,280 --> 01:46:43,360
Speaker 1: end up working with John Shanks. How do you end

1770
01:46:43,439 --> 01:46:47,360
Speaker 1: up working with John Shanks? Ah, well, let's go back

1771
01:46:47,400 --> 01:46:50,280
Speaker 1: to the first album, and let's go back to Kevin McCormick,

1772
01:46:50,840 --> 01:46:54,479
Speaker 1: who I went to go see Kevin McCormick's band at

1773
01:46:54,520 --> 01:46:59,080
Speaker 1: the time in he's playing and his band is called

1774
01:46:59,120 --> 01:47:04,120
Speaker 1: the Uninvited and the band consists of him, Fritz Luik

1775
01:47:04,280 --> 01:47:07,920
Speaker 1: on drums, who I eventually end up playing with. Craig

1776
01:47:07,960 --> 01:47:12,280
Speaker 1: Cramp didn't tour with me. I Fritz played with me,

1777
01:47:12,640 --> 01:47:14,559
Speaker 1: and so Fritz was on my second and third and

1778
01:47:14,640 --> 01:47:18,040
Speaker 1: fourth album. He plays on all those albums and Scott

1779
01:47:18,080 --> 01:47:22,360
Speaker 1: Thurston who ends up being a Tom Petty in the

1780
01:47:23,040 --> 01:47:28,719
Speaker 1: in the UH you know those guys, and UM, and

1781
01:47:29,080 --> 01:47:31,720
Speaker 1: the guitar player is this kid from l A named

1782
01:47:31,800 --> 01:47:34,880
Speaker 1: John Shanks. And so for my very first tour in

1783
01:47:36,880 --> 01:47:39,479
Speaker 1: I I saw John and I went, I want him

1784
01:47:39,479 --> 01:47:43,120
Speaker 1: to be UH in my band. So I tell people

1785
01:47:43,240 --> 01:47:47,400
Speaker 1: I discovered John Shanks at Madam Wong's right, Madam WANs

1786
01:47:47,120 --> 01:47:50,320
Speaker 1: in Santa Monica. He comes, he does my first tour

1787
01:47:50,439 --> 01:47:54,519
Speaker 1: with me, and he had some troubles, him and Kevin

1788
01:47:54,520 --> 01:47:56,240
Speaker 1: and but he had some trouble so he went away.

1789
01:47:56,800 --> 01:48:00,360
Speaker 1: And then when Kevin left and and I needed to

1790
01:48:00,360 --> 01:48:04,679
Speaker 1: put a new band together for the Yes I M tour,

1791
01:48:05,640 --> 01:48:09,680
Speaker 1: I run into John Shanks at some little place and

1792
01:48:09,760 --> 01:48:12,479
Speaker 1: he's he's got his life together, he's trying to get

1793
01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:18,320
Speaker 1: back into the business. He's playing for UM for a

1794
01:48:19,320 --> 01:48:22,080
Speaker 1: singer that I don't know, but he was kind of

1795
01:48:22,080 --> 01:48:24,280
Speaker 1: playing with someone and I said, well, I'm about to

1796
01:48:24,320 --> 01:48:28,120
Speaker 1: go on tour, come be my guitar player again. So

1797
01:48:28,240 --> 01:48:33,800
Speaker 1: from nine three to about two thousand, it's about two

1798
01:48:33,800 --> 01:48:38,240
Speaker 1: thousand one, he was my guitar player. He played, he

1799
01:48:38,280 --> 01:48:40,839
Speaker 1: did my whole Yes I Am tour Your Little Secret,

1800
01:48:41,240 --> 01:48:44,880
Speaker 1: and then he then when it came time to do

1801
01:48:45,240 --> 01:48:49,040
Speaker 1: my Breakdown album, I tried to work with somebody and

1802
01:48:49,040 --> 01:48:54,639
Speaker 1: it didn't work, and John said, look, let me produce.

1803
01:48:54,680 --> 01:48:57,480
Speaker 1: I've been doing, you know, a couple of little projects,

1804
01:48:58,000 --> 01:49:01,560
Speaker 1: but let me produce your album. So I said okay,

1805
01:49:02,400 --> 01:49:09,200
Speaker 1: And Breakdown was his first full album. So you did

1806
01:49:09,280 --> 01:49:12,200
Speaker 1: discover him. I did totally. And from that he just

1807
01:49:12,240 --> 01:49:15,120
Speaker 1: went off. He was he's winning Grammys, he's doing stuff

1808
01:49:15,160 --> 01:49:17,360
Speaker 1: and and him and I have worked together on and

1809
01:49:17,400 --> 01:49:21,040
Speaker 1: off many many of my He did Fearless Love, He's

1810
01:49:21,080 --> 01:49:24,479
Speaker 1: did songs on Lucky, you know, He's done a whole

1811
01:49:24,560 --> 01:49:28,679
Speaker 1: lot of stuff with me, Medicine Show. Yeah. Okay. So

1812
01:49:28,840 --> 01:49:33,680
Speaker 1: ultimately Ellen comes out, But prior to that and for

1813
01:49:33,840 --> 01:49:41,920
Speaker 1: years thereafter, you are the face of gay in America.

1814
01:49:42,360 --> 01:49:46,719
Speaker 1: Is that a good thing or a not good thing? Personally? Well,

1815
01:49:46,760 --> 01:49:55,599
Speaker 1: personally it was, it was good for a while in that. Um.

1816
01:49:56,120 --> 01:49:58,439
Speaker 1: The part that was hard is that for a couple

1817
01:49:58,439 --> 01:50:02,240
Speaker 1: of years, that's all I talked about. Any interview was

1818
01:50:02,280 --> 01:50:05,400
Speaker 1: about being gay, and they were asking me questions that

1819
01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:07,880
Speaker 1: everyone wanted to know about being gay, because no one

1820
01:50:08,000 --> 01:50:10,040
Speaker 1: was willing to sit down and talk to anybody about

1821
01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:15,839
Speaker 1: being gay. And so it was like you know, Rolling Stone, uh,

1822
01:50:15,920 --> 01:50:19,920
Speaker 1: you know, every newspaper of every town, everything would talk

1823
01:50:19,960 --> 01:50:22,920
Speaker 1: to me. And then I would finally do like you know,

1824
01:50:23,000 --> 01:50:26,120
Speaker 1: the Advocate that out magazine, these gay publications. So I

1825
01:50:26,200 --> 01:50:30,679
Speaker 1: talked about being gay for years and it was like, okay,

1826
01:50:30,760 --> 01:50:33,000
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a musician too, we can talk about

1827
01:50:33,040 --> 01:50:36,240
Speaker 1: the music too, and the goodness. You know, when Ellen

1828
01:50:36,280 --> 01:50:39,680
Speaker 1: finally came out and it started to the other people did,

1829
01:50:39,720 --> 01:50:41,599
Speaker 1: it was like, okay, I'm not the only one anymore.

1830
01:50:42,120 --> 01:50:46,679
Speaker 1: And and then it it changed. And once I actually

1831
01:50:47,000 --> 01:50:50,719
Speaker 1: went through cancer in two thousand four, then I started

1832
01:50:50,760 --> 01:50:54,599
Speaker 1: talking about cancer. So I had cancer, gay and music.

1833
01:50:54,640 --> 01:50:58,519
Speaker 1: And now you know, cancer, gay music, cannabis. And now

1834
01:50:58,560 --> 01:51:01,800
Speaker 1: it's cancer, gay music, cannabis, opioid addiction. You know. So

1835
01:51:02,040 --> 01:51:04,479
Speaker 1: I have lots of things that I can talk about.

1836
01:51:04,520 --> 01:51:06,559
Speaker 1: But for a while there it was it was just gay.

1837
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:09,040
Speaker 1: And it what got really hard is when I went

1838
01:51:09,080 --> 01:51:11,559
Speaker 1: through my first divorce, because I was, you know, being

1839
01:51:11,560 --> 01:51:15,160
Speaker 1: held up as this gay you know, this perfect relationship

1840
01:51:15,240 --> 01:51:17,800
Speaker 1: and we had children and then it all went away.

1841
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:21,559
Speaker 1: It was bad, So I didn't that was hard. You know,

1842
01:51:21,680 --> 01:51:26,200
Speaker 1: the story that came out was that you were with

1843
01:51:26,240 --> 01:51:30,240
Speaker 1: the therapist. And Julie said, well, I'm not really feeling

1844
01:51:30,240 --> 01:51:33,519
Speaker 1: the gay thing? Is that? Is that true? It was

1845
01:51:33,800 --> 01:51:38,240
Speaker 1: part of it. She was this kind of an unhappy person. Um.

1846
01:51:38,280 --> 01:51:43,360
Speaker 1: She did go on to marry a man and uh,

1847
01:51:43,640 --> 01:51:47,880
Speaker 1: spend most of that in straight relationships. Although you know,

1848
01:51:47,960 --> 01:51:54,080
Speaker 1: I would say she's bisexual. She um, yeah, And I'm

1849
01:51:54,200 --> 01:51:57,200
Speaker 1: less concerned what was going through her head? This was

1850
01:51:57,520 --> 01:52:01,360
Speaker 1: going through your head to what the we were you shocked?

1851
01:52:01,840 --> 01:52:04,720
Speaker 1: And were you shocked in the therapist? Did you see

1852
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:08,160
Speaker 1: it coming? What was your Yeah? Yeah, she yeah, I

1853
01:52:08,200 --> 01:52:11,600
Speaker 1: did see it coming. She Oh, you know where do

1854
01:52:11,600 --> 01:52:14,040
Speaker 1: you think? So songs like I'm the only One you

1855
01:52:14,080 --> 01:52:19,439
Speaker 1: know came from and and you know, and someone told

1856
01:52:19,439 --> 01:52:21,599
Speaker 1: me you lose them how you get them? And I

1857
01:52:21,680 --> 01:52:24,120
Speaker 1: met her when she was married. She was married to

1858
01:52:24,160 --> 01:52:27,519
Speaker 1: a movie star. I met her that way. I'm married

1859
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:31,600
Speaker 1: to a man, you know, And so now I know, oh,

1860
01:52:31,439 --> 01:52:34,639
Speaker 1: you're not ever going to change these people. And so

1861
01:52:34,720 --> 01:52:37,720
Speaker 1: she kind of had that thing going on where she

1862
01:52:37,760 --> 01:52:41,200
Speaker 1: was always looking somewhere else and then some something else,

1863
01:52:41,280 --> 01:52:43,799
Speaker 1: and you know, it would be good for a few months,

1864
01:52:43,840 --> 01:52:46,439
Speaker 1: and then oh something would happen, and and you know,

1865
01:52:46,479 --> 01:52:48,880
Speaker 1: I was on the road a lot, and that was

1866
01:52:48,920 --> 01:52:53,320
Speaker 1: just gonna it's it's just And then I thought when

1867
01:52:53,320 --> 01:52:56,400
Speaker 1: we had kids that I was like, okay, so you're

1868
01:52:56,439 --> 01:52:58,559
Speaker 1: you're you're done with all that, right, We're having kids

1869
01:52:58,560 --> 01:53:01,360
Speaker 1: and we're gonna be together. Oh yeah. Well after we

1870
01:53:01,400 --> 01:53:04,400
Speaker 1: had kids, of course, now she's not happy. She's not happy.

1871
01:53:04,800 --> 01:53:08,040
Speaker 1: And when someone's not happy, you're just okay. There's nothing

1872
01:53:08,080 --> 01:53:11,880
Speaker 1: I can't make her happy, you know. So how did

1873
01:53:11,960 --> 01:53:17,080
Speaker 1: you discover you had cancer? Ah? Well, you know, after

1874
01:53:17,160 --> 01:53:21,920
Speaker 1: that breakup, that was really depressing. I got and you know,

1875
01:53:21,960 --> 01:53:25,400
Speaker 1: I I was it was just it was just hard.

1876
01:53:25,880 --> 01:53:28,720
Speaker 1: And music was changing. It's just two thousand, you know,

1877
01:53:29,400 --> 01:53:32,600
Speaker 1: everything's changing. Everything seems to be just falling apart. In

1878
01:53:32,640 --> 01:53:34,719
Speaker 1: this family that I thought I had, all of a sudden,

1879
01:53:34,800 --> 01:53:37,799
Speaker 1: I only see them half the time. It was just horrible.

1880
01:53:37,880 --> 01:53:41,760
Speaker 1: I'm I'm really depressed. And I start a new relationship

1881
01:53:41,800 --> 01:53:44,040
Speaker 1: with a totally gay person, you know, and I'm like, okay,

1882
01:53:44,120 --> 01:53:46,920
Speaker 1: I'm doing the right thing now, and but I'm I'm

1883
01:53:46,960 --> 01:53:53,000
Speaker 1: not happy now. I've I've lost all my Mojoe and everything,

1884
01:53:53,080 --> 01:54:02,160
Speaker 1: and and um, I uh, I actually I um I had.

1885
01:54:02,200 --> 01:54:05,840
Speaker 1: I started right before I was diagnosed. I started, uh

1886
01:54:05,960 --> 01:54:09,479
Speaker 1: smoking cannabis, I had. I had never really done it much.

1887
01:54:09,520 --> 01:54:11,200
Speaker 1: I did it socially a little bit of my life,

1888
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:14,160
Speaker 1: but I I started like doing it every weekend and

1889
01:54:14,200 --> 01:54:16,800
Speaker 1: it was really fun and I enjoyed myself on it.

1890
01:54:17,439 --> 01:54:20,320
Speaker 1: Just stopped for a second. Were you a drinker? No,

1891
01:54:20,720 --> 01:54:23,240
Speaker 1: I was not a drinker. You were. You were basically clean.

1892
01:54:23,800 --> 01:54:28,120
Speaker 1: So what was this transition into smoking cannabis on the weekends. Well,

1893
01:54:28,200 --> 01:54:32,040
Speaker 1: my my partner at the time was I was like, yeah,

1894
01:54:32,160 --> 01:54:34,560
Speaker 1: I like this as something someone had act actually given

1895
01:54:34,600 --> 01:54:37,920
Speaker 1: me as a gift, a whole bunch. And I was like, okay,

1896
01:54:37,920 --> 01:54:39,800
Speaker 1: well let's once, you know, when the kids go to

1897
01:54:39,800 --> 01:54:42,800
Speaker 1: the other house, let's try this. And I had so

1898
01:54:42,880 --> 01:54:45,200
Speaker 1: much fun and it was like this is great. And

1899
01:54:45,200 --> 01:54:47,800
Speaker 1: so after a few weeks um I said, have you

1900
01:54:47,840 --> 01:54:52,040
Speaker 1: ever done, like, uh, pot brownies or cookies or something?

1901
01:54:52,080 --> 01:54:54,200
Speaker 1: And she's like no, And I'm like, let's bake cookies.

1902
01:54:54,200 --> 01:54:57,280
Speaker 1: And she's a baker, and so she we end up, oh,

1903
01:54:57,280 --> 01:54:59,160
Speaker 1: well we're supposed to put this much in. Well, if

1904
01:54:59,160 --> 01:55:00,920
Speaker 1: that much is good, we'll let's put a bunch of

1905
01:55:01,240 --> 01:55:05,640
Speaker 1: So she makes these amazing cookies and I like eat

1906
01:55:05,760 --> 01:55:09,360
Speaker 1: three of them because they're delicious. And I have what

1907
01:55:09,920 --> 01:55:14,320
Speaker 1: I now call a heroic dose of cannabis. And I

1908
01:55:14,920 --> 01:55:17,080
Speaker 1: am one of those people. You hear them all that,

1909
01:55:17,160 --> 01:55:19,320
Speaker 1: you hear recordings of people who are like, I'm dying.

1910
01:55:19,560 --> 01:55:21,880
Speaker 1: I've taken too much, you know, I'm too high and

1911
01:55:21,920 --> 01:55:26,560
Speaker 1: I'm dying. Because it was this mind blowing, mind altering journeys.

1912
01:55:26,600 --> 01:55:32,200
Speaker 1: So I have this huge spiritual awakening, a light, you know,

1913
01:55:32,360 --> 01:55:35,440
Speaker 1: and and I started going, wait a minute, my life

1914
01:55:35,480 --> 01:55:38,400
Speaker 1: is totally not what I think it is. And a

1915
01:55:38,400 --> 01:55:43,760
Speaker 1: few weeks later, I'm diagnosed with cancer. So it's like

1916
01:55:45,440 --> 01:55:48,920
Speaker 1: I I become spiritually a where I have this new

1917
01:55:49,000 --> 01:55:52,280
Speaker 1: sort of outlook on life. And then oh, I've got

1918
01:55:52,280 --> 01:55:56,360
Speaker 1: this disease, this this thing. And so I walked through

1919
01:55:56,400 --> 01:56:00,720
Speaker 1: the whole process of of cancer. I stop touring, I

1920
01:56:00,720 --> 01:56:03,720
Speaker 1: stop everything, my whole life stops for the first time

1921
01:56:04,560 --> 01:56:10,360
Speaker 1: in what thirty years, you know, and I I find

1922
01:56:11,640 --> 01:56:16,040
Speaker 1: this all my answers sort of, all all my inspiration

1923
01:56:16,160 --> 01:56:20,880
Speaker 1: comes back, just roaring back after after I really I

1924
01:56:20,920 --> 01:56:25,560
Speaker 1: go through cancer. I I do about five chemo treatments.

1925
01:56:25,560 --> 01:56:27,480
Speaker 1: I'm bald. I sing on the grammys. I have this

1926
01:56:27,840 --> 01:56:34,320
Speaker 1: wonderful experience, and I realized that my health is absolutely

1927
01:56:34,360 --> 01:56:38,800
Speaker 1: the most important thing, and my health it has everything

1928
01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:42,520
Speaker 1: to do with my happiness. So my happiness is the

1929
01:56:42,560 --> 01:56:46,040
Speaker 1: most important thing. And I start walking this journey with that,

1930
01:56:46,120 --> 01:56:51,160
Speaker 1: and I start enjoying cannabis so much more regularly. It

1931
01:56:51,520 --> 01:56:56,720
Speaker 1: like gets me through chemotherapy. It helps me with pain

1932
01:56:56,760 --> 01:57:00,600
Speaker 1: and depression and appetite. And I through that and I

1933
01:57:00,680 --> 01:57:05,440
Speaker 1: become a huge plant medicine advocate and I still am.

1934
01:57:05,160 --> 01:57:08,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm very and it's part of what Ethics Foundation

1935
01:57:08,840 --> 01:57:14,880
Speaker 1: is is um we we helped research for people to

1936
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:18,720
Speaker 1: get people off of opioids, and you know your heroines

1937
01:57:18,760 --> 01:57:23,280
Speaker 1: and methodones and thing they by using a nature, nature

1938
01:57:23,320 --> 01:57:30,800
Speaker 1: based medicines and plant medicine. So that so the the

1939
01:57:30,880 --> 01:57:33,800
Speaker 1: cannabis and the cancer sort of hand in hand. Was

1940
01:57:33,840 --> 01:57:37,600
Speaker 1: this whole life changing experience for me. How did you

1941
01:57:37,840 --> 01:57:42,840
Speaker 1: literally find out did you find a lump? No? I

1942
01:57:42,880 --> 01:57:48,480
Speaker 1: had actually just had a physical a few months before

1943
01:57:48,520 --> 01:57:50,880
Speaker 1: and everything was fine, and I was out on tour

1944
01:57:50,920 --> 01:57:53,600
Speaker 1: and it was really really not happy. And I was

1945
01:57:53,680 --> 01:57:57,320
Speaker 1: in the shower in the morning and actually felt it

1946
01:57:57,360 --> 01:58:00,839
Speaker 1: on my breast and went, wow, that wasn't there yesterday.

1947
01:58:00,880 --> 01:58:03,520
Speaker 1: It felt like I didn't hadn't noticed it. And it

1948
01:58:03,640 --> 01:58:06,720
Speaker 1: was a lump. It was a big lump too. And

1949
01:58:06,760 --> 01:58:08,480
Speaker 1: then I just went to the doctor and I was like,

1950
01:58:09,080 --> 01:58:11,880
Speaker 1: what's this and they were like, I think I know

1951
01:58:11,920 --> 01:58:15,600
Speaker 1: what that is. And it was wonderful. The the woman

1952
01:58:15,600 --> 01:58:20,360
Speaker 1: who biopsy did this doctor I hadn't realized she had

1953
01:58:20,400 --> 01:58:22,800
Speaker 1: had a double mestecht to me and she goes, look,

1954
01:58:22,840 --> 01:58:24,520
Speaker 1: you're gonna be fine. This is the worst that can

1955
01:58:24,560 --> 01:58:26,880
Speaker 1: happen to you. And she showed me her double mistech

1956
01:58:26,960 --> 01:58:29,520
Speaker 1: to me and I was like, okay, great, I'm gonna

1957
01:58:29,520 --> 01:58:31,920
Speaker 1: be fine. I'm gonna die, so let's, you know, let's

1958
01:58:31,920 --> 01:58:35,960
Speaker 1: move through this and see what happens. So you never Okay,

1959
01:58:36,000 --> 01:58:40,040
Speaker 1: I have cancer and I got it subsequent to me

1960
01:58:40,080 --> 01:58:43,440
Speaker 1: getting it twelve thirteen years ago. A lot of my

1961
01:58:43,520 --> 01:58:45,640
Speaker 1: friends have got it. I would say I got it

1962
01:58:45,680 --> 01:58:48,160
Speaker 1: early with the air quotes. But the first thing that

1963
01:58:48,240 --> 01:58:52,880
Speaker 1: happens is, and I'm good, is that you realize you're

1964
01:58:52,880 --> 01:58:55,880
Speaker 1: not gonna be here forever. You're gonna die. Yeah, we

1965
01:58:56,160 --> 01:58:59,000
Speaker 1: are mortal, Yes, we are mortal. Where we are, We're

1966
01:58:59,040 --> 01:59:01,000
Speaker 1: all gonna die. That's something and and for us to

1967
01:59:01,080 --> 01:59:04,520
Speaker 1: spend our whole lives afraid of when we're gonna die

1968
01:59:05,520 --> 01:59:08,640
Speaker 1: is ridiculous. That life is worth living every we're all

1969
01:59:08,640 --> 01:59:12,080
Speaker 1: gonna die. Okay, that's a given. So let's just let's

1970
01:59:12,080 --> 01:59:15,320
Speaker 1: just leave that over here and then be in the moment,

1971
01:59:15,400 --> 01:59:18,480
Speaker 1: be right now. And being in the moment is a

1972
01:59:18,560 --> 01:59:22,480
Speaker 1: huge healer for all the worries I think. I think

1973
01:59:22,480 --> 01:59:28,320
Speaker 1: my cancer came from worry, from sadness, from uh, my

1974
01:59:28,480 --> 01:59:32,920
Speaker 1: eating habits and and so much of of you know,

1975
01:59:33,560 --> 01:59:37,640
Speaker 1: putting myself last, putting everybody else first, and trying to

1976
01:59:37,840 --> 01:59:40,400
Speaker 1: fix everybody else. And finally when I just pulled that

1977
01:59:40,480 --> 01:59:43,040
Speaker 1: all back into myself, that's when I really found health

1978
01:59:43,080 --> 01:59:48,440
Speaker 1: and power. Now, you're a very outgoing, verbal person, magnetic,

1979
01:59:49,520 --> 01:59:53,040
Speaker 1: but you mentioned and of course anybody would be depressed

1980
01:59:53,080 --> 01:59:56,960
Speaker 1: with what you went through with those times. Are you

1981
01:59:57,080 --> 02:00:00,280
Speaker 1: generally prone to depression or you've always upbeat like this?

1982
02:00:01,400 --> 02:00:05,480
Speaker 1: I'm upbeat like this is my natural state. I love.

1983
02:00:05,600 --> 02:00:09,200
Speaker 1: I believe in the goodness of the world. I believe

1984
02:00:09,440 --> 02:00:13,520
Speaker 1: in in happiness. I believe that the point of living

1985
02:00:13,680 --> 02:00:18,360
Speaker 1: is to find happiness and joy. I believe joy is

1986
02:00:18,360 --> 02:00:25,160
Speaker 1: is is a human uh blessing in a state that

1987
02:00:25,160 --> 02:00:29,800
Speaker 1: that one is in and and is where health and

1988
02:00:30,720 --> 02:00:35,000
Speaker 1: longevity starts. Okay, let's go back to something you said

1989
02:00:35,080 --> 02:00:38,960
Speaker 1: earlier about the change in the music business really started

1990
02:00:38,960 --> 02:00:45,480
Speaker 1: with Napster the year two thousand. As time goes by,

1991
02:00:46,280 --> 02:00:50,160
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff changes. The heritage artists from the seventies,

1992
02:00:50,200 --> 02:00:54,160
Speaker 1: they put out new albums, crickets, the most famous people,

1993
02:00:54,240 --> 02:00:59,320
Speaker 1: most of them stop making records. Then as we ultimate

1994
02:00:59,320 --> 02:01:02,080
Speaker 1: believe all to Spotify. A lot of them are and

1995
02:01:02,360 --> 02:01:06,360
Speaker 1: a lot of people who made it before or anti Spotify,

1996
02:01:06,400 --> 02:01:09,480
Speaker 1: But all of a sudden we wake up and rock

1997
02:01:10,160 --> 02:01:14,360
Speaker 1: is not the dominant format it was previously. What are

1998
02:01:14,400 --> 02:01:20,560
Speaker 1: your thoughts about all this, Well, having been a musician

1999
02:01:20,640 --> 02:01:27,240
Speaker 1: through all of it, I I have seen how I

2000
02:01:27,400 --> 02:01:32,000
Speaker 1: reach people change, you know. I no longer there's no

2001
02:01:32,080 --> 02:01:37,360
Speaker 1: there's no rock radio. There's not even record companies really

2002
02:01:37,400 --> 02:01:40,640
Speaker 1: anymore that do that. They're all focused on fifteen year olds,

2003
02:01:40,640 --> 02:01:43,360
Speaker 1: you know, and where they can sell this product. And

2004
02:01:43,360 --> 02:01:45,520
Speaker 1: then I realized that, oh I was a product to them,

2005
02:01:45,560 --> 02:01:50,960
Speaker 1: and I'm I like, when we started this conversation, it's

2006
02:01:51,400 --> 02:01:56,320
Speaker 1: I can reach my fans directly, and I know and

2007
02:01:56,440 --> 02:02:00,640
Speaker 1: my whole goal has been to be an artist that

2008
02:02:00,720 --> 02:02:04,240
Speaker 1: when they hear I'm coming to town, they're like, oh,

2009
02:02:04,280 --> 02:02:08,000
Speaker 1: that's a good show. I want to go see that.

2010
02:02:08,080 --> 02:02:11,120
Speaker 1: I've either seen it before or I've heard that this

2011
02:02:11,240 --> 02:02:17,080
Speaker 1: is a good time. And if I have that reputation

2012
02:02:17,160 --> 02:02:22,120
Speaker 1: as a live artist, you can't replicate that. So I

2013
02:02:22,160 --> 02:02:28,880
Speaker 1: think in this business the winners are the rolling stones. No,

2014
02:02:29,080 --> 02:02:32,000
Speaker 1: they're not making any new records and we're not hearing

2015
02:02:32,040 --> 02:02:38,240
Speaker 1: them on the radio, but they are selling out you know, stadiums. Uh,

2016
02:02:38,280 --> 02:02:42,760
Speaker 1: these artists. Because you cannot replicate live music on a

2017
02:02:42,800 --> 02:02:46,200
Speaker 1: computer in your bedroom. You know you can. You can

2018
02:02:46,240 --> 02:02:48,920
Speaker 1: make songs that people like to hear, and you can

2019
02:02:48,960 --> 02:02:51,840
Speaker 1: make moods and you can do that, and that's all good.

2020
02:02:53,760 --> 02:02:58,800
Speaker 1: It's the longevity lives in the artists that connect with people,

2021
02:02:59,240 --> 02:03:05,440
Speaker 1: that treat them coming to see them as as a gift.

2022
02:03:05,480 --> 02:03:07,960
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful every audience that comes to see me,

2023
02:03:08,400 --> 02:03:10,760
Speaker 1: but every audience I play for, no matter where, no

2024
02:03:10,760 --> 02:03:14,440
Speaker 1: matter how small, those I want those people to want

2025
02:03:14,480 --> 02:03:17,560
Speaker 1: to come back and see me. So that's my career,

2026
02:03:17,760 --> 02:03:20,560
Speaker 1: is the live performing and and I get I still

2027
02:03:20,560 --> 02:03:23,440
Speaker 1: get to make albums. I still get to to make music.

2028
02:03:23,840 --> 02:03:27,600
Speaker 1: And release it and have new things and presented. I still,

2029
02:03:27,920 --> 02:03:30,120
Speaker 1: you know, I'll present that. Of course every show, I'm

2030
02:03:30,160 --> 02:03:33,640
Speaker 1: playing my my hits, because you know, we all want

2031
02:03:33,640 --> 02:03:35,520
Speaker 1: to see come to my window and wave our arms

2032
02:03:35,560 --> 02:03:38,880
Speaker 1: and stuff and and that's part of it. But I

2033
02:03:39,480 --> 02:03:41,600
Speaker 1: my job is to entertain you and for you to

2034
02:03:41,680 --> 02:03:44,240
Speaker 1: leave and go, oh, that was great. I can't wait

2035
02:03:44,280 --> 02:03:48,680
Speaker 1: to see it again. So you're still just as motivated

2036
02:03:48,720 --> 02:03:52,680
Speaker 1: to record music. Yeah, it's different. And I'm actually in

2037
02:03:52,680 --> 02:03:54,400
Speaker 1: a place right now where I'm in a in a

2038
02:03:54,480 --> 02:03:58,640
Speaker 1: writing cycle where I am writing. But I do have

2039
02:03:58,680 --> 02:04:01,160
Speaker 1: the question of wow, do I just release one song

2040
02:04:01,200 --> 02:04:05,600
Speaker 1: at a time? Now? Is the album actually dead? You know?

2041
02:04:05,840 --> 02:04:09,840
Speaker 1: And I have realized that I have a choice. I

2042
02:04:09,840 --> 02:04:14,520
Speaker 1: can I can do ten songs and put out an album,

2043
02:04:14,640 --> 02:04:16,960
Speaker 1: or I can do four and put out an EP.

2044
02:04:17,200 --> 02:04:20,440
Speaker 1: I can just release one. I have all these choices.

2045
02:04:20,880 --> 02:04:23,920
Speaker 1: So as I'm writing, I'm gonna see my preference is

2046
02:04:23,960 --> 02:04:26,480
Speaker 1: to do an album because I think I think my

2047
02:04:26,760 --> 02:04:30,120
Speaker 1: my fans love to get a collection of songs that

2048
02:04:30,240 --> 02:04:32,880
Speaker 1: represent what I'm going through and at the times, and

2049
02:04:33,000 --> 02:04:34,880
Speaker 1: something they can sit and listen to and have an

2050
02:04:34,880 --> 02:04:39,200
Speaker 1: hour with, you know. So Deborah Tan and this is

2051
02:04:39,240 --> 02:04:42,440
Speaker 1: not a pop psychologist is a degreed person. She wrote

2052
02:04:42,480 --> 02:04:46,200
Speaker 1: a book you just don't understand difference between men and women,

2053
02:04:46,560 --> 02:04:48,960
Speaker 1: and you talked about men are always needing a career

2054
02:04:49,080 --> 02:04:52,520
Speaker 1: arc that goes up, where women can go up and

2055
02:04:52,560 --> 02:04:57,040
Speaker 1: go down. So you have these huge triumphs which to

2056
02:04:57,120 --> 02:05:00,960
Speaker 1: a great degree are not available to anybody anymore. How

2057
02:05:01,000 --> 02:05:03,040
Speaker 1: does it feel do you look back and say, well,

2058
02:05:03,080 --> 02:05:06,720
Speaker 1: I was there and now I'm here. How do you go? Oh?

2059
02:05:07,120 --> 02:05:09,480
Speaker 1: Very much so, because looking back is is not I

2060
02:05:09,800 --> 02:05:13,040
Speaker 1: don't ever compare myself to you know what. I celebrate

2061
02:05:13,040 --> 02:05:16,360
Speaker 1: what I used to do. I look at I still

2062
02:05:16,440 --> 02:05:18,920
Speaker 1: got goals in front of me. I just got offered

2063
02:05:19,440 --> 02:05:22,320
Speaker 1: uh to play at stage Coach a festival here, and

2064
02:05:22,320 --> 02:05:26,320
Speaker 1: that's my That's the first big festival of this sort

2065
02:05:26,320 --> 02:05:30,280
Speaker 1: of festival era, you know, the last ten twenty years

2066
02:05:30,320 --> 02:05:33,680
Speaker 1: that has asked me to play. And I'm excited. I'm like, yes,

2067
02:05:33,800 --> 02:05:37,720
Speaker 1: I finally have reached that level. And I'm always I'm

2068
02:05:37,760 --> 02:05:41,960
Speaker 1: always looking to expand and and I love that I have.

2069
02:05:42,240 --> 02:05:44,480
Speaker 1: I have younger people coming to see me. The younger

2070
02:05:44,520 --> 02:05:48,960
Speaker 1: generation is finding me, and so there's still so much

2071
02:05:49,040 --> 02:05:53,080
Speaker 1: to do and so much I want to do? And

2072
02:05:53,200 --> 02:05:56,360
Speaker 1: how much long are you going to do this? Oh,

2073
02:05:56,440 --> 02:05:59,880
Speaker 1: I'll go until I can't. I will never say I'm

2074
02:06:00,080 --> 02:06:01,880
Speaker 1: to retire. You'll never hear me say that, because I

2075
02:06:01,880 --> 02:06:04,920
Speaker 1: think that's silly. I mean, how do you retire from music?

2076
02:06:04,960 --> 02:06:09,680
Speaker 1: You know? And and I see my older peers, you know,

2077
02:06:09,720 --> 02:06:13,560
Speaker 1: as long as Bruce goes, I'm gonna go definitely, But

2078
02:06:13,640 --> 02:06:16,760
Speaker 1: who knows I will go? I I you know, I

2079
02:06:17,720 --> 02:06:20,840
Speaker 1: did you see you know Joni Mitchell just let the

2080
02:06:20,840 --> 02:06:24,520
Speaker 1: Newport you know. Yeah, that was beautiful. It made me cry.

2081
02:06:24,520 --> 02:06:27,720
Speaker 1: It was just gorgeous. You know. I'm my job is

2082
02:06:27,720 --> 02:06:31,840
Speaker 1: to keep myself healthy and have joy and longevity in

2083
02:06:31,880 --> 02:06:35,480
Speaker 1: my in my life. Well, you talk about stage coach.

2084
02:06:36,480 --> 02:06:38,920
Speaker 1: You know, this term from the movie has been overused,

2085
02:06:38,960 --> 02:06:42,120
Speaker 1: but it represents the concept better than anything else, which

2086
02:06:42,160 --> 02:06:46,960
Speaker 1: is bucket list. Anything you haven't done personally as well

2087
02:06:47,000 --> 02:06:49,800
Speaker 1: as in your career that you would like to do

2088
02:06:49,920 --> 02:06:53,280
Speaker 1: in the time you have left. Not a whole lot,

2089
02:06:53,920 --> 02:06:56,400
Speaker 1: because really I've done, you know, I got the Grammys,

2090
02:06:56,400 --> 02:06:59,080
Speaker 1: I got the Oscar I uh oh, I think I'd

2091
02:06:59,080 --> 02:07:01,080
Speaker 1: like a tone. I'd like an egot. I would like

2092
02:07:01,120 --> 02:07:04,080
Speaker 1: to be one of the under twenty people who have

2093
02:07:04,160 --> 02:07:06,480
Speaker 1: an egot. I think that would that that's something that

2094
02:07:06,560 --> 02:07:09,960
Speaker 1: I'd like. Yes, well, you know a lot of acts

2095
02:07:10,000 --> 02:07:14,000
Speaker 1: of your vintage UH have gone to Broadways. That's something

2096
02:07:14,000 --> 02:07:16,760
Speaker 1: on your horizon, Yes, sir, that is, that's something we're

2097
02:07:16,760 --> 02:07:18,840
Speaker 1: working on right now. You might hear about that in

2098
02:07:18,880 --> 02:07:20,920
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna do

2099
02:07:21,000 --> 02:07:23,240
Speaker 1: something the end of this year off Broadway and hopefully

2100
02:07:23,280 --> 02:07:28,200
Speaker 1: bring it to Broadway. And you're very involved in your career.

2101
02:07:28,280 --> 02:07:32,600
Speaker 1: But what do you do when you're not working? I

2102
02:07:32,760 --> 02:07:38,720
Speaker 1: do my family. I love my family and I do

2103
02:07:38,800 --> 02:07:41,920
Speaker 1: a lot of that, and I do a lot of

2104
02:07:42,200 --> 02:07:47,720
Speaker 1: um gardening. I love my I just love my house.

2105
02:07:48,160 --> 02:07:51,400
Speaker 1: When i'm I love traveling with my my family. It's

2106
02:07:51,440 --> 02:07:55,160
Speaker 1: mostly my family and work. That's really what I am.

2107
02:07:55,200 --> 02:07:58,120
Speaker 1: And anywhere you haven't been you want to go. I

2108
02:07:58,120 --> 02:08:01,960
Speaker 1: would like to go to UH, South Africa. I know

2109
02:08:02,000 --> 02:08:04,600
Speaker 1: I have fans there, I have fans in Brazil, never

2110
02:08:04,680 --> 02:08:08,640
Speaker 1: been there, and the Asian country has never really been

2111
02:08:08,680 --> 02:08:12,960
Speaker 1: there either. Okay, Melsta, this has been wonderful. I want

2112
02:08:12,960 --> 02:08:15,480
Speaker 1: to thank you for taking the time. You know, you're

2113
02:08:15,640 --> 02:08:19,680
Speaker 1: very articulate, very positive, a joy to talk to. Thank

2114
02:08:19,720 --> 02:08:21,880
Speaker 1: you so much. What a pleasure to go through my

2115
02:08:22,000 --> 02:08:25,480
Speaker 1: life with you, my friend. It was great for me too,

2116
02:08:25,960 --> 02:08:28,880
Speaker 1: So until next time. This is Bob Left sex