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Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't know. You never know what story

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Speaker 1: is of things. We simply don't know the answer too.

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Speaker 1: Hey there and welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways

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Speaker 1: the podcast um Steve as always joined by Devin, Joe

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Speaker 1: and Joe. He got his name right this story, did it?

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Speaker 1: We didn't even have to take five takes, Sir Joe.

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Speaker 1: Sir Joe, Well, that's actually kind of apropos for the

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Speaker 1: story here perfecting. Why what are we going to talk about? Well,

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Speaker 1: tonight's story is the theft of the Irish Crown Jewels. Wait,

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Speaker 1: the Irish have jewels? They did, They didn't, They don't

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Speaker 1: have them anymore. They're they're gone. Somebody's gone, somebody does. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's let's just pop right into the story since we

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Speaker 1: prefaced it so well. Uh await the ending I did?

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Speaker 1: It's the Middle way, The middle did so. The Irish

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Speaker 1: Crown Jewels disappeared sometime between the month of June and

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Speaker 1: July seven. Wait, I'm sorry, they don't even know when

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Speaker 1: they disappeared, not exactly. Yeah, it was a really good theft,

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Speaker 1: and you'll find out why it wasn't so obvious right away.

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Speaker 1: I think that probably everybody is familiar with the concept

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Speaker 1: at this point of royal jewels or crown jewels. You know,

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Speaker 1: you see the things that the crown or the cornery,

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Speaker 1: coronation ceremony accouterments, you know, gilded staff in precious precious

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Speaker 1: metals and precious stones and all of that. Uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: they're like I said, they brought out for coronations or

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Speaker 1: when somebody famous visits. Well, the Irish didn't exactly have

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Speaker 1: that at this time. We're talking nine o seven. This

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Speaker 1: is when jewels, yeah, well this is this is seven.

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Speaker 1: This is when Ireland is actually part of the United Kingdom,

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Speaker 1: are part of England, officially part of England. The Irish

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Speaker 1: crown jewels are different because they were part of a

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Speaker 1: small collection of jewels and ornaments that were used by

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Speaker 1: and I love this name, the Most Illustrious Order of St. Patrick.

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Speaker 1: That's a pretty awesome name. If you asked me, we

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Speaker 1: should change the show name of that. We are now

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Speaker 1: the most Illustrious Order of thinking sideways all right, Well,

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Speaker 1: the order was what is referred to as a chivalric

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Speaker 1: is at the correct pronunciation chivalric organization, which shivalick organizations

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Speaker 1: were a thing that originally they were made up of

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Speaker 1: knights who and it was in honor. These were guys

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Speaker 1: who were honoring knights who had fallen in the Crusades. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's exactly right. Well, of course the Crusades were in

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Speaker 1: the fourteen and fifteen centuries. So as you move forward,

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Speaker 1: what actually I think they were before then? Were they well,

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Speaker 1: I know they were a long time ago, like happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: as of about the seventeenth century. These orders were actually

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Speaker 1: just kind of honorary societies kind of they were set

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Speaker 1: up by they were set up by royalty. It was

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Speaker 1: kind of a way to say you're my friend, you're

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Speaker 1: a really good guy, and I'm going to honor you

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Speaker 1: by inducting you into this order. Or if you had

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Speaker 1: a lot of hit songs, maybe yeah kind of thing. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you know St. Patrick, he he had a lot

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Speaker 1: of hits. Greatest Hits album. You gotta pick that up.

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Speaker 1: It's it's on Amazon. The the Irish Crown Jewels, which

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Speaker 1: were part of the order, where there was really only

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Speaker 1: two pieces of the set. Of my people to only

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Speaker 1: have two parts of Crown Jewels right now, before we

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Speaker 1: get into it, you know what, I had a really

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Speaker 1: hard time this whole time. You guys have watched Family Guy, right,

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Speaker 1: do you remember when Family Guy did the History of

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Speaker 1: Ireland and at one point Ireland was this giant, utopian,

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Speaker 1: super scientific civilization beer and then developed whiskey, and suddenly

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Speaker 1: they burned and raised the cities and they were no more.

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Speaker 1: All I can ever remember. It's I think a Family

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Speaker 1: Guy one to write is when they like fly into

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Speaker 1: Ireland and the landing strip is really it's just covered

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Speaker 1: in beer bottles. They just like crash Land. It's like

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Speaker 1: a pit of beer bottles. Yeah, we should clarify. I'm

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Speaker 1: definitely super Irish, I think ye, I'd probably have a

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Speaker 1: little bit. We mean, this is just the funny, the

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Speaker 1: funny that I couldn't help but thinking of as I

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Speaker 1: was doing this. But all right, we'll back to the story,

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Speaker 1: back to the seriousness of the Order of St John's St. Patrick,

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Speaker 1: the Order of St Patrick's the Irish Town jewels that

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Speaker 1: were part of it. The two pieces were a eight

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Speaker 1: pointed Star of St. Patrick, which was a jeweled star.

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Speaker 1: It had it's eight points, It had a shamrock in

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Speaker 1: the center that was made out of emeralds, and there

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Speaker 1: was a diamond brooch which was called the grand Master's Badge,

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Speaker 1: and the badge was made with ruby's emeralds, and at

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Speaker 1: the time they called them Brazilian diamonds, which was evidently

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Speaker 1: the highest quality, clearest diamond they had available. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: that's that's what they used. And written in diamonds on

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Speaker 1: this badge in Latin it said who will separate us?

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Speaker 1: With question mark at the end, But I don't. I

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Speaker 1: didn't write down what it is in Latin because I'm

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Speaker 1: really bad at Latin. At it. Well, I forgot, I know.

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Speaker 1: To give you a kind of an idea of the

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Speaker 1: size of these two pieces, the star was about four

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Speaker 1: and a quarter inches by four and a quarter inches,

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Speaker 1: so it was kind of a square, and the brooch

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Speaker 1: was about three inches across by five inches tall. So

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Speaker 1: these are like an index card. Yeah there, I mean,

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Speaker 1: think of it. It's it's about the size of your hand,

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Speaker 1: almost the ballpark. I mean, that's that's a big piece

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Speaker 1: of jewelry that you can hold in your hand. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And and what they would do is they would pin

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Speaker 1: them on the chest. They had silk robes and stuff

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Speaker 1: that they would wear. And so the the star was

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Speaker 1: worn by one guy and the badge was worn by

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Speaker 1: another and it was it was the sign of your office,

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Speaker 1: was really what they did, which is just so silly

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Speaker 1: because silk just can't hold diamonds like that. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: when you're rich, it doesn't matter because you only use

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Speaker 1: it a couple of times and then you get a

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Speaker 1: new one. That's true. Yeah, Well, let's get on to

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Speaker 1: the theft. The Irish Crown jewels were stolen, and they

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Speaker 1: weren't the only thing that were stolen at the time.

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Speaker 1: There was also several gold collars for the Order of

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Speaker 1: St Patrick Collar. All right, Yeah, this this took me

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Speaker 1: a while. A gold collar is basically a giant gold

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Speaker 1: chain that would be worn around the neck. If you

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Speaker 1: think about some of the it's not really draped around

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Speaker 1: the neck and is across the shoulders and across the chest.

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Speaker 1: The easiest way I can think of this is if

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Speaker 1: you ever look at some of the old paintings of royalty,

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Speaker 1: like let's say Henry the eighth, and you'll see he's

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Speaker 1: got this big gold thing that comes off his shoulders

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Speaker 1: and droops across the front of his chest. That's a caller.

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Speaker 1: That's what they called the caller, which basically just giant bling.

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Speaker 1: So it's not like an actual like button on collar

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Speaker 1: like we wear on collar shirts. No, it actually and

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Speaker 1: that took me a while to figure out because they

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Speaker 1: kept talking about silk callers that were also stolen, and

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Speaker 1: silk collars were kind of the roughly bit with silk

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Speaker 1: that it sat a pond. So you put on the

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Speaker 1: silk collar, you pull it over your head, and then

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Speaker 1: you would pull on the gold collar on top of that.

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Speaker 1: So yes, yeah, so it's me. It's pretty, it's fancy.

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Speaker 1: It's fanciness, fancy, goldiness, fancy. Uh. Well, the oh, and

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Speaker 1: the other thing that was stolen at the same time

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Speaker 1: was the personal jewel belongings of the mother of a

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Speaker 1: man by the name of Arthur Vickers. Now Vickers is

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Speaker 1: going to come up in a story very shortly, but

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Speaker 1: I just want to point out that her jewels were

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Speaker 1: also stolen because they were stored at the same location.

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Speaker 1: I have to point out that when I was reading

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Speaker 1: through some of the links for this story, I skimmed

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Speaker 1: some of the like kind of backstory on this right,

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Speaker 1: so I missed the part that there was a dude

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Speaker 1: named Arthur Vickers. So when I was reading through it,

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Speaker 1: I just kept thinking, oh, the vicars he thought. He

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Speaker 1: was like a vicar, Yeah, And I was like, why

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Speaker 1: are they adding an S to the end of like

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Speaker 1: the vicar? It makes you feeling better? Yeah, I did

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Speaker 1: the same thing, and I've read this thing like five

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Speaker 1: times before I finally slowed down enough to realize what

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Speaker 1: was going on. Okay, well, here's here's what happens. Here's

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Speaker 1: the backstory that I think will help is, according to

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Speaker 1: the Statutes of the Order of St Patrick, the jewels,

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Speaker 1: along with any other regalia that they might have, was

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Speaker 1: to be safely guarded by the Ulster King of Arms.

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Speaker 1: So that's the title. The statue also said that the jewels,

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Speaker 1: and I'm reading directly here, shall be deposited for safe

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Speaker 1: keeping in a steel safe in the chancery of the

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Speaker 1: Order of Office of Arms of Ireland. That makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Put them in a safe. Put him in a steel

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Speaker 1: safe so they're locked up. Put them in a safe

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Speaker 1: in an office you know that has access from only

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Speaker 1: this one dude, right, correct. Here's the problem is that

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Speaker 1: from the year eighteen eighty one to nineteen o three

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Speaker 1: the Order had operated out of Dublin Castle and it

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Speaker 1: was in a location that was no, that's called Birmingham Tower.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen o three though they moved the order from

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Speaker 1: that tower to the upper castle Yard into Bedford Tower,

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Speaker 1: so they moved locations. Essentially, they changed where they were at.

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Speaker 1: And when they moved it required that they had a

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Speaker 1: new safe made, because it's safe that they were using,

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing was bolted to the floor like you dot to, yeah,

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Speaker 1: something to keep it from being picked up and easily moved. Exactly,

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Speaker 1: a good idea generally. The problem is is that when

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Speaker 1: the new safe was made and delivered, they discovered it

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Speaker 1: was too big to get through the door into the

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Speaker 1: strong room where it was supposed to be stared. That's

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Speaker 1: the hilarious thing too, is like the animals of incompetence,

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Speaker 1: that's a custom built this strong room to hold this safe,

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Speaker 1: and they made it and they made the door too small.

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Speaker 1: And the amazing thing is, you know, I mean it

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Speaker 1: must have been a really super strong room because they

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Speaker 1: couldn't like widen the doorway. Yeah, partially, it's a It's

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Speaker 1: in a tower that is hundreds of years old, so

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Speaker 1: you're not just gonna put pulling stones out of the

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Speaker 1: doorway to open it up and try and put them

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Speaker 1: back in. I know, that just doesn't work. It's just

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Speaker 1: a bad idea anyway, So I wound up with in

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Speaker 1: a new location. So now we talked about Arthur Vickers.

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Speaker 1: He at the time was Ulster King of Arms, and

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Speaker 1: he was the guy who was responsible for the safe

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Speaker 1: keeping and storage of the Irish Crown jewels along with

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Speaker 1: all the other you know reggae yet that they might have,

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Speaker 1: and his grandmother's jewels and his his mother in law's

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Speaker 1: jewels or his mother's not well, rather than freak out

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Speaker 1: and say you need to make me a new safe,

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Speaker 1: or you need to fix this, because the guy who

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Speaker 1: made the safe was said, oh, well, we can totally

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Speaker 1: fix that. I can, I can make new safe. And

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Speaker 1: he's like, oh no, no, no, no, no, it's fine.

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Speaker 1: Just put that in the library and we'll just use

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Speaker 1: it in the library in his office. I got to

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Speaker 1: put it in Victor's office. No, it was in the

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Speaker 1: library because there was a bunch of other cases of

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Speaker 1: stuff that was stored for display and they stuck it

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Speaker 1: in the library. What I just feel like was he

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Speaker 1: the kind of guy who had his office because he

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Speaker 1: was related to somebody. Well, he got the office I

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Speaker 1: think he was given the office in nineteen o two

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Speaker 1: or nineteen o three, and he was given the office

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Speaker 1: by the king. He did something to impress the king

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Speaker 1: to be elevated to the Ulster King of Arms by

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Speaker 1: the King of England at the time. Interesting particularly, I

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Speaker 1: was wondered exactly what what he did. It doesn't say.

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Speaker 1: I never could find exactly what he did to get

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Speaker 1: this honor to be elevated to this level. But he

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Speaker 1: just said, oh, yeah, no, it's fine, just put it there,

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Speaker 1: no big deal. Let's move forward. That was three. We're

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Speaker 1: going to move forward to nineteen o seven. On June

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Speaker 1: eleven of nineteen o seven, it's confirmed there's accounts that

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Speaker 1: the jewels were removed from the safe and they were

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Speaker 1: shown to a man by the name of John Hodgson.

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Speaker 1: He was the librarian of the Duke of Northumberland. Not

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Speaker 1: John Hodgman. No Hodgson, did I say Hodgman. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that it wasn't famed millionaire, deranged

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Speaker 1: millionaire John Hodgeman. No, No, it was not him. He'd

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Speaker 1: be crazy old at that point anyway. Correct. On July

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Speaker 1: three of nineteen o seven, the cleaning lady showed up

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Speaker 1: for work and she found the front door unlocked. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I couldn't totally tell. I don't know if you

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Speaker 1: found out if this was it was that the library door,

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Speaker 1: was that the safe door? Was it the front door

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Speaker 1: to the whole building front understanding? I think it was

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Speaker 1: the front door of the building, but I could never

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Speaker 1: confirm exactly what the quote unquote front door was. It

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Speaker 1: was always a cleaning lady finding this stuff. That lady

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Speaker 1: had to find everything. Ye seven days later, I mean

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Speaker 1: after after this, she this guver was the strong room

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Speaker 1: doors has been left. Well, yeah, you're jumping ahead on

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Speaker 1: me a little bit, but you're right. But then, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: she's always finding stuff that's unlocked and open. Three days

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Speaker 1: later she finds again, this is July six, she finds

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Speaker 1: the door to the strong room is open. But you know, nobody,

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Speaker 1: nobody's worried about it, Nobody thought anything on it, No

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Speaker 1: big deal. Later that day, though, Vickers, Arthur Vickers had

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Speaker 1: sent a messenge, you're to the safe. Evidently they had

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Speaker 1: received the collar of a deceased Knight of the Order,

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Speaker 1: and he said, hey, take that down to the safe

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Speaker 1: and put it in the safe, at which point the

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Speaker 1: messenger discovered that A the safe was open and be

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Speaker 1: the jewels were gone. I at least they didn't get

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Speaker 1: that collar. Was it the Was it the cleaning lady?

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Speaker 1: I mean like did she seal them? We don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean it seems like that, right, Like if you

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Speaker 1: were the cleaning lady and you were going to do

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Speaker 1: a theft like this, you would totally be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: when I came in today, Sorry, I know we're jumping ahead. Well,

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Speaker 1: and there's and there's some facts about locks and keys

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Speaker 1: that will help, I think clear the cleaning lady of

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Speaker 1: her of her possible suspicion. But then again, maybe not

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Speaker 1: one thing I want to know about this safe. It

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Speaker 1: had two locks on it, so two locks, two keys.

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Speaker 1: But did those two that's my understanding. I said, at

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Speaker 1: least something I understood that it was unlock two copies

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Speaker 1: of the key original and yeah, and some readings I've

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Speaker 1: seen that, But in other ones I say, it looks

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Speaker 1: like the say had two locks with two separate keys.

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Speaker 1: But you would kind of want for security, right. It's

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Speaker 1: like the every time you see on TV where it's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: we gotta launch launch the bomb that's going to kill humanity.

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Speaker 1: You've got to have like at least two different people

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Speaker 1: with two different keys. And yes, and and this is

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Speaker 1: jumping ahead a little bit, but I think the way

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Speaker 1: that I understood it, there was two copies of the

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Speaker 1: key because Vickers, as his position dictated, was always supposed

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Speaker 1: to have one copy of the key with him, and

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Speaker 1: then he was also supposed to have a second copy

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Speaker 1: of the key locked and stowed somewhere in his residence.

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Speaker 1: So I got the impression that it was two copies

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Speaker 1: of the same key, not two locks with two individual keys.

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Speaker 1: That probably, I mean, yeah, okay. But but then the

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Speaker 1: cleaning lad clearly could have done it, because once she

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Speaker 1: found a strong room open strong and was like there

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Speaker 1: was a door and out of door, and then there

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Speaker 1: was an inner gate, like her gate was locked, but

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Speaker 1: somebody had left the key in the lock, and there

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Speaker 1: was a ring of keys hanging from that, and it

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Speaker 1: turns out it was Vicker's key ring, So probably the

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Speaker 1: key to the safe was on that key ring. So

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Speaker 1: she could have boogied in there, got the crown jewels

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Speaker 1: stuffed and down her bodice and then you know, and

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Speaker 1: then turned the keys into lost and found that's one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite phrases in the world. It stuffed it

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Speaker 1: down her bodice. I was gonna just like shout out

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Speaker 1: that technically bodice is not a thing. Well, you're just

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Speaker 1: no fun. Thanks for killing all the fun. We'll just

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Speaker 1: move forward the story. She hit it in her underwear, Okay, alright, alright, Well,

295
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Speaker 1: the Dublin Metropolitan Police and the Detective Branch. These are

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Speaker 1: two separate groups. Let all away from ourselves. Yeah we did.

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Speaker 1: These are two separate groups that are investigative groups that

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Speaker 1: are you know, of the Royal Police Society As for

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Speaker 1: lack of I made up that phrase, but they're the police.

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Speaker 1: They went ahead and they investigated the theft. They determined

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Speaker 1: that no doors had been forced open. The manufacturer of

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Speaker 1: the safe, remember the guy who built it too big, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and was like yeah, he showed up and said, uh no,

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Speaker 1: duplicate had key had been used. And by duplicate, I

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Speaker 1: took that to mean that if somebody had made a

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Speaker 1: rough copy. And we'll talk about some rough copy stuff

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Speaker 1: later on, but if you make a rough copy, it's

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Speaker 1: not perfect, but I imagine with a rough copy you

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Speaker 1: can kind of jam it in there and bang it around.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like, what's the phrase for a key when

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Speaker 1: you've a bump key. Yeah, it's kind of like a

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Speaker 1: bump key, so it works, but it would mar up

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Speaker 1: the inside of the teeth of it. Yeah, yeah, a

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Speaker 1: little bit. That's what I infer that. That's what that

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Speaker 1: I always when I was reading this, was thinking about

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Speaker 1: Charlie's Angels. Do you guys ever see that really crappy

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Speaker 1: Charlie's Angels movie that had like Cameron Diaz, Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: clo in it. Um, they like took a copy of

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Speaker 1: a key by like pushing clay on both sides and

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Speaker 1: then like injecting some like metal bouleon in there or whatever.

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Speaker 1: That's how like in my mind that you would have

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Speaker 1: gotten And that's the easiest way to think about that,

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Speaker 1: one way to do it. And so of course it

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Speaker 1: would be a crappy, be very very crappy one time

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Speaker 1: key or you know, a locksmith could have actually picked it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you would think that a locksmith, if they were

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Speaker 1: picking it, they would they would leave some kind of mark.

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Speaker 1: If you open up the guts of the safe, you

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Speaker 1: would think you would see this this marks where they

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Speaker 1: were in there playing around trying to find the tumblers

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Speaker 1: to push him in. Also, if the safe was found locked, right,

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Speaker 1: you would have to like not only would you have

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Speaker 1: to get into it, but you would also have to

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Speaker 1: like close it and lock it actually, and that's why

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Speaker 1: if you picked the lock, you don't have the key

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Speaker 1: to close it with again, and you don't want to

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Speaker 1: repick the locks, so it's just sitting open. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's harness. You know. I know this And I saw

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00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 1: that too, about how this guy pronounced that no duplicate

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00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,880
Speaker 1: And I thought, I'm guessing he's talking about a cheap

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00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,920
Speaker 1: copy with a bump key kind of situation. Granted that

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00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,760
Speaker 1: we're probably looking at more of a skeleton key situation. Well, no, actually,

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Speaker 1: this is would be a normal kind of key that

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Speaker 1: were Well, there's a guy named Detective Inspector John Kane

345
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:26,959
Speaker 1: who was of Scotland Yard, the Scotland Yards, the Scotland Yards.

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Speaker 1: He compiled the report which evidently he named who he

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Speaker 1: was sure the thief was. This is terrible, But the

348
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,760
Speaker 1: commissioner of the Dublin Metro Police refused to accept his

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00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:46,159
Speaker 1: report for some reason, and his report subsequently disappeared, so gone,

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Speaker 1: we don't know who he fingered for the job. It's

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Speaker 1: hard when you know there weren't electronic copies of everything.

352
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,320
Speaker 1: That's the problem. You have to be like the I.

353
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Speaker 1: R s to totally lose something that thoroughly. Now, as

354
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 1: you can imagine, there's there's some huge fallout from the

355
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 1: theft of these jewels. Uh. Part of the problem right

356
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,959
Speaker 1: away is that it wasn't reported right away. In other words,

357
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Speaker 1: they sat on the fact that these things were missing

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Speaker 1: for at least a week, if not two or three

359
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,840
Speaker 1: before they finally admitted it. And when the King Edward

360
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 1: the Seven figured it out, he was mad, super mad.

361
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 1: He sacked everybody in the order that was that was there,

362
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 1: that was an officer in that location. And we got well, yeah,

363
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,439
Speaker 1: now we've got four other guys besides Arthur Vickers. We

364
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:44,920
Speaker 1: have a gentleman by the name of Francis Shackleton, Pierce Mahoney,

365
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 1: Sydney Horlock, and Francis Bennett Goldney. These these five guys

366
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,199
Speaker 1: are at the center of the conspiracy. For lack of

367
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 1: a better phrase of who could have done it. Now,

368
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 1: there was a commission that was that was put out

369
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Speaker 1: to investigated, a commission of inquiry to look into it.

370
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 1: But it seems like mostly they were geared at finding

371
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Speaker 1: somebody to point a finger out, and others looking for

372
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:17,480
Speaker 1: a scapegoat or a patsy. They didn't look for who

373
00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,640
Speaker 1: done it. They looked for kind of who was responsible

374
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,080
Speaker 1: for it happening. It was a classic case of who

375
00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: done it? Yes, I love that you put your hand

376
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:29,920
Speaker 1: on your hip. At the same time, if I had

377
00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 1: like the little newsgirl cap, I don't. Yeah, we're like wow.

378
00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,240
Speaker 1: I was a classic case with your your little notepad

379
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,119
Speaker 1: in your hand. Yes, yes, yes, but that's that's the end.

380
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: Like the jewels disappeared, we never saw them again. They

381
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 1: were never found, they were never recovered. We don't know

382
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,919
Speaker 1: what happened to it until today exactly. Yeah. Do you

383
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,159
Speaker 1: want to go through the theory? Just want to. I

384
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 1: want to go through the theories. We could solve it.

385
00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 1: I know where they are. Where my jewelry case, Oh

386
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: the glass ones that you've got your costume jewelry. No

387
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,399
Speaker 1: they're real? No, no, no, all right, Well I can

388
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,360
Speaker 1: actually tell you I have a family connection to this

389
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 1: great great uncle Patty stole them. Well let me let me,

390
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 1: let me just get into the theories. You too, But

391
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,959
Speaker 1: before I know you've got your I know you know

392
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 1: who done it. But let's like try to hold true

393
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,880
Speaker 1: to the way we do things. I like the modern way.

394
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: He says, who done it? Who done it? Let's find

395
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,280
Speaker 1: out who done it, not let's find out who done it.

396
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: That's because I'm not good with accents and inflection. Just

397
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 1: th reason I have not tried yet to do a

398
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:48,199
Speaker 1: terrible Irish accent. Oh I wish you accent? That was?

399
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: That was? That was your? All? Right? Can we not

400
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 1: learn that he only has one act? I? Can we can? Please?

401
00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: Serie number one? Well, he didn't do it, but Arthur

402
00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 1: Vickers was actually completely in totally in a problem. Yeah,

403
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: let's let's okay, here's well, let's be honest. Any man

404
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 1: who's like just throw that thing in the library gonna

405
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,959
Speaker 1: be fine with Colonal Mustard. It's actually and and all

406
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,280
Speaker 1: and fairness to Vickers though, I mean, this is actually

407
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: um Dublin Castle was also like the home of the

408
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 1: It's under Locking team. I mean there are cops all

409
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: around and stuff like that. Yeah, the reason to believe

410
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,919
Speaker 1: it was fairly secure world. Oh yeah, no, I I

411
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: don't disagree with that at all. Here's the deal. We

412
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: talked about the commission that was set up to investigate this,

413
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 1: and they focused on Vickers exclusively in this. I mean

414
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: they really did. They just focused on him. I mean,

415
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: I probably would have to I read a book. I

416
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: read some of the old accounts the I mean, you

417
00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 1: can actually find some of the stuff on the web,

418
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 1: the old typewritten notes from the commission and stuff, and

419
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: it's pretty obvious that they just were out to get him.

420
00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,359
Speaker 1: But there was two ways that this commission could be held.

421
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: One they could meet publicly, which means that they could

422
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: compel witnesses to come forward on record, and those witnesses

423
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: had no choice. It's kind of like jury duty. You

424
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 1: had to come or not jury duty, but in a

425
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: criminal case, you can't refuse to show up very easily, yeah,

426
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: your subpoena. Or they could do it in private, at

427
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: which point they lost that ability for some reason, they

428
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: decided to go with the private option. Well, Vickers at

429
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: this point he's decided that they're looking to whitewash the

430
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,959
Speaker 1: story and they're just looking for a scapegoat. So he

431
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:44,119
Speaker 1: gets all peeved, and he had counsel with him, and

432
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:49,160
Speaker 1: he removed his counsel from the entire proceedings. What that meant, though,

433
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 1: is that he didn't have any way to cross examine

434
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: anybody that they were talking to. So basically, I get

435
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 1: up there, I tell my story and they say, well,

436
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 1: say you sir, good day. But if he had been there,

437
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,879
Speaker 1: and he had not bowed out or got mad and left,

438
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: his attorney could have got up there and you know,

439
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: said wait, wait, wait, that doesn't make sense. What are

440
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: you saying here and kind of put it put the

441
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: grill to us, and that very Mason, like you know,

442
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 1: solved the mystery right there in the courtroom. You know, yeah, yeah, yeah,

443
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 1: because somebody goes, fine, it was me, I did it. Yeah.

444
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: I don't understand why he got so mad at at

445
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:28,960
Speaker 1: them being private, And maybe it's because then the records

446
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,440
Speaker 1: were sealed and it wasn't public record. It was now

447
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,359
Speaker 1: a private record. I don't know why he It's not

448
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 1: like he was refusing to cooperate with any inquiry. He

449
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,480
Speaker 1: just wanted to, but he wanted a public in Yeah,

450
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,000
Speaker 1: and so well, and he had a he had a

451
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: pretty valid point that he was pretty sure they were

452
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: whitewashing it because this commission started. Once they started interviewing

453
00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,720
Speaker 1: people they were done in fifteen days, which doesn't sound

454
00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: like it's a very extensive inquiry. I just don't know

455
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: why you would. I still don't know why you would

456
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,639
Speaker 1: just like pull your counsel though. I mean, that just

457
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: seems like a dumb move. Well, he wasn't known for

458
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: making great decisions because he didn't do such a bang

459
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: up job in his position. Uh he here's here's the

460
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: little history on Vickers. He was known for having a

461
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 1: few drinks on the job. Supposed he would get drunk

462
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: on site. He evidently once woke up after being he

463
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 1: got drunk, passed out, woke up wearing the jewels around

464
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: his neck, wearing a collar and and something. One of

465
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: the jewels was pinned to him. And we don't know

466
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: if he got drunk and put him on himself and

467
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 1: partied around and then passed out, or if somebody put

468
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: him on him as a practical joke. Let me ask

469
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: you this, when he woke up and he found the

470
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: jewels on him, did he have like, uh, did you

471
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 1: have like writing? Sharpie writing? They didn't have sharpie's Maybe

472
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 1: lipstick or they didn't They didn't They didn't put on

473
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,400
Speaker 1: his face. Got to do that that's kind of interesting though.

474
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: It's like, I mean, if I had passed out of

475
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:06,280
Speaker 1: my office and woke up with the Crown jewels on me,

476
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 1: I don't think i'd tell anybody. I don't. I don't

477
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,480
Speaker 1: know how we know about this. This is the thing.

478
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that it was in some kind of written

479
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 1: account somewhere that somebody else had written, Oh yeah, Arthur

480
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 1: told me this happened. That's the only way I can

481
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: figure out that it got He must have confided to somebody.

482
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: I guess I was going to assume that, Like I mean,

483
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 1: I guess I can count the number of times that

484
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: I've you know, like passed out drunk like that kind

485
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: of seriously on one hand. But every in every single case,

486
00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: it's not like I just like wake up naturally the

487
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: next day and I'm like, oh crap, there's like this

488
00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: was a horrible decision. It's usually like somebody coming in

489
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: and being like, hey, dude, hey, you forgot that you're

490
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 1: going to class. The cleaning lady found him that you

491
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: must have done it. He's always yes, he's always the

492
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: center of these things. But you know, I think it's

493
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 1: not unreasonable to assume that, like one of his colleagues

494
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 1: could have come in and been like, hey, dude, wake up,

495
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: what are you doing with all those jewels around your neck?

496
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: And that's how it got in there. Yeah, here's another

497
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: another bit that proved that he didn't do such a

498
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: bank up job. There was a gentleman by the name

499
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: of Lord Hatto. I believe h A D. D O

500
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: Hatto or Hato, I'm not sure how you pronounce it,

501
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: but he was a son of Viceroy Lord Aberdeen. This

502
00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: is just Star Wars. Yeah, like lords. None of the

503
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: viceroy he Lord hat Hatto, whichever it is. He visited

504
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 1: the castle on a pre regular basis and allegedly once

505
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: stole the crown jewels as a practical joke, and then

506
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: put him in the mail the next day and mailed

507
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: him back to Vickers. Hey dude, you you were drunk.

508
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: You left this open, so I sent them back. You

509
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: think that would have been a wake up call for

510
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: old Vickers. Yeah, you would kind of think, like, here's

511
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,480
Speaker 1: a seriously deal all the jewels back. Maybe, or he

512
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: might have bailed back copies waxed copies that melted in

513
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: the summer heat. No. Uh. In May seven, there's this

514
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: is another incident. Vickers left the key to the safe

515
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: attached to a key ring of his own that was

516
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 1: for the his offices, and he reported it and a

517
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: maid found them and she sent them to the Chief

518
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 1: Herald's office via another servant. So he's losing these Uh.

519
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:38,080
Speaker 1: This this obviously proves that the safes weren't always locked,

520
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: and they weren't exactly hard to get into. This guy

521
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: was just leaving stuff open all the time. Well, it

522
00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:48,239
Speaker 1: was a different time, but and I'd say that that

523
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 1: cleaning lady had just multiple temptations placed in front of it,

524
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: and she kind of did. Yeah, she kind of did. Now. Well,

525
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: and you remember how speaking to the cleaning lady, remember

526
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 1: how we had talked about the doors were left open

527
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: multiple times. Well, it's theorized that it's possible that Vickers

528
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: was actually leaving the doors open on purpose in this

529
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 1: this couple of days preceding the discovery of the loss

530
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: of the jewels, and that he had realized that either

531
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: a a prankster had stolen them and he was waiting

532
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 1: for them to return them, so he's leaving things open

533
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: for them to just put him back, or he had

534
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: realized they had been stolen. He didn't want to admit

535
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: that they had been stolen, and he wanted him to

536
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: be theft to be discovered by somebody other than him,

537
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: or even Another theory on that is that he realized

538
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: that they were gone and he got some kind of

539
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: ransom note and he couldn't raise the money out of

540
00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 1: his own funds, so he's trying to raise awareness of

541
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 1: it so that then he could get some money to

542
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 1: pay off the blackmailer to have him returned, and raising

543
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: awareness by what leaving the doors, leaving the doors open

544
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: to have it discovered so somebody be like, oh my god,

545
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: they're gone. Oh yeah, hey, by the way, I got

546
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: this letter saying we need to pay X amount of

547
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: pounds before they'll give them back because at this time,

548
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: well even today, the Irish Ireland uses the pound. That

549
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: it's not the pounds sterling that the UK uses anymore.

550
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: They've separated. But this is a weird little fact. So

551
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: do you know what they call the pound in Ireland?

552
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: The punt put the punt. It's just such a random name.

553
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: I think it's that's how do you think the things

554
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: in the UK? Okay, Well, let's let's keep going alright,

555
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: theory number two. Uh, the jewels were we're stolen, and

556
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:54,959
Speaker 1: they actually accidentally let the thief in at a stag party. Yeah,

557
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: they did, all right. Remember I talked about there were

558
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 1: several gentlemen who were working in the office at the time.

559
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: One of those guys, his name is Francis Shackleton. Well,

560
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: Shackleton was openly homosexual. How openly could you be homosexual

561
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: back in those days? Evidently he was very open. He

562
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: was very open about the fact that he was homosexual,

563
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 1: and it's alleged that he actually had quite a few

564
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: stag parties at the office with men who were of

565
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 1: the same persuasion. Sorry, I'm pushing so hard against making

566
00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: jewels stealing, Joe, I'm gonna keep going so you can

567
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: keep that. Well, it's reported that not only was Shackleton

568
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: at some of these parts, was at all of these parties,

569
00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 1: but every other member of the staff attended the parties

570
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: at some point. So they were all getting drunk at

571
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 1: the office, having Shenanigan's um. So it's I mean, who knows.

572
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: But the problem is Shackleton also had some high up friends,

573
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 1: high up as in in the royal family. Because one

574
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: of the people who was at some of these parties

575
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: was the King's brother in law, John Campbell, the ninth

576
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 1: Duke of Argyle. So these theories, the theories that they

577
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,479
Speaker 1: let they let the thief in. Is either a that

578
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 1: because the jewels weren't locked up, somebody came to a party,

579
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 1: realized the jewels weren't locked up and checked the joint

580
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: out to figure out how they could take they could

581
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 1: pull it off, and then the next time they showed

582
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: up and things weren't locked up, they stole them and

583
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 1: disappeared into the night. Or and this is this is

584
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: gonna lead into the next theory as well. But it's

585
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: also theorized that Shackleton might have stolen the jewels himself

586
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: and when he was approached about the theft, basically said, hey, uh,

587
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: John Campbell and I were good friends, wink wink, and

588
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: if you start talking about the fact that I stole

589
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 1: these jewels, I'm going to start talking about the things

590
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 1: that he does, basically causing a scandal and exposing his lifestyle,

591
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: which was a big issue at that time. It wasn't

592
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,720
Speaker 1: proper for a member of the royal family to be gay.

593
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: It still is probably it probably still is. You never

594
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: hear anything like that, it's always hushed up. You know,

595
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 1: if he had blackmailed, what do you think they just

596
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: would have murdered him. Well, there's some reasons that they

597
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,359
Speaker 1: might not have murdered him quite so easily. And that

598
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: actually goes into our next theory, which is a good segue.

599
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 1: Joe Francis Shackelin was a friend of Arthur Vickers and

600
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,120
Speaker 1: he actually lived with the guy for two plus years,

601
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: like two and a half years. Yeah, uh well. He

602
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: also was really bad with money. The guy had racked

603
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: up some serious debts. He had borrowed money from every

604
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,960
Speaker 1: one of his co workers somewhere. You know. I think

605
00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: the smallest loan he got from a friend was four

606
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: hundred pounds to the order of fifteen hundred pounds, which

607
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 1: this is nineteen hundreds, so that is I would say

608
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,359
Speaker 1: that's taking of inflation. Joe, what do you think do

609
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: the math? What do you think, Like, I'm like ten

610
00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: to fifty tho dollars into the whole with multiple people

611
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 1: of the pounds, right, which is like, yeah, well I'm

612
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: just using the pound. Yeah, So I mean he's he's

613
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: seriously in debt. Here's another thing that doesn't go in

614
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 1: his favor. Is that at a luncheon on July four seven,

615
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 1: Shackleton said it would not be in the least bit

616
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: surprising to learn that one day the jewels would be stolen.

617
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: He said that two days before the theft was discovered.

618
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 1: Here's the problem, though, Okay, instantly we're like, oh, yeah,

619
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 1: Shackleton did it. He's the guy he's saying all these clues.

620
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:56,399
Speaker 1: I think that would that would tend to actually point

621
00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:00,799
Speaker 1: the other direction because he said it would be really

622
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 1: easy for them to be stolen, and then they disappeared

623
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,239
Speaker 1: two days later, No, they'd been gone. I mean, I

624
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 1: think I think it's fairly well the loss was discovered

625
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: two days later. I think this is running in that

626
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 1: people gloating about a theft. Oh gosh, that bank would

627
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: be so easy to knock over, and then two days

628
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: later the bank gets knocked over. I think it's just

629
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,319
Speaker 1: kind of that he's saying how easy it would be,

630
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,799
Speaker 1: because he's kind of bragging. But here's a problem. He

631
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:32,800
Speaker 1: wasn't in the country when during the weeks prior since

632
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: that before the jewels disappeared, Shackleton wasn't in the country.

633
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: He was in England, so it couldn't have been Shackleton

634
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: himself that did the theft. Kind a quick ferry right

635
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: over to Dublin, and you know, that's possible, that's not

636
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:52,560
Speaker 1: that far and it is possible. But it is also

637
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: possible that he had an accomplice. There's a guy by

638
00:37:57,239 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: the name of Captain Richard Gorge's who he served in

639
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: the army with and they were they were really good friends.

640
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: They had been friends for years. And it's thought that

641
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,600
Speaker 1: maybe he had Gorgees go do the theft while he

642
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: was out of the country so that the blame couldn't

643
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 1: easily fall on him, was it. Do you think that

644
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,879
Speaker 1: the jewels would have gone for enough to cover all

645
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 1: his depths? Though? I don't know. Well, if you think

646
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: about and if you think about it, these are encrusted

647
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: with diamonds and rubies and emeralds, and if you break

648
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,720
Speaker 1: those up and you make them into smaller bits of jewelry,

649
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 1: that's a lot of freaking money. I guess I thought

650
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: that we had read and this may be jumping ahead,

651
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: who read in the the theories somewhere that the jewels

652
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: could have been got for two or three thousand pounds

653
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,839
Speaker 1: And it sounds like he was much more than that.

654
00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 1: In it sounded to me that depending on the version

655
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 1: of the story, it's anywhere between thirty three thousand pounds

656
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: and fifty at the time of their theft. At the

657
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: time of the theft, but that's as that's as a

658
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: single unity. You can't take this thing to a pawn

659
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: shop and get rid of it. Yeah, you're gonna have

660
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:14,719
Speaker 1: to break it up. Yeah you have less. And we'll

661
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,959
Speaker 1: talk about that two or three thousand pounds things because

662
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: it's weird that they could be got for that kind

663
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 1: of money. It's a really small summer month. There's a

664
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 1: guy by the name and this is a great name,

665
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:34,480
Speaker 1: Bollmer Hobson. Hobson. Well, it could be that one too.

666
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: He interviewed Gorge's in nineteen twelve, so this is the

667
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:44,400
Speaker 1: army buddy of Shackleton, and in that interview, Gorgeous strongly

668
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: hinted at his involvement in the crime and that Shackleton

669
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,240
Speaker 1: was his co conspirator. There's also a letter from Vickers

670
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: to Shackleton, and Vickers wrote this on the August seven

671
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,480
Speaker 1: and this was also read into that inquiry that we

672
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 1: talked about, and in that letter, Vickers made it pretty

673
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: quick clear that he and Goldney suspected Shackleton knew more

674
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:18,040
Speaker 1: than he had admitted to. And when Vickers was interviewed

675
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:20,439
Speaker 1: by that detective that we talked about earlier, who said

676
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:24,360
Speaker 1: he knew who did it, Vickers said, and I quote,

677
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: that they were taken by a man who you know well.

678
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: He was a guest in my house and he treacherously

679
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: took impressions of my keys when I was in my bath.

680
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: He often came to this office on Sundays and he

681
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: used my latch key to get in. He is in

682
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: Paris at the moment, which Vickers or not Vickers, but

683
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 1: Shackleton went from England to Paris. He then traveled from

684
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: Paris back to Dublin for the inquiry, came in, did

685
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: his inquiry, and then immediately turned around and left again.

686
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: He's doing a lot of finger pointing. So there's all

687
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 1: this finger pointing that it could have been Shackleton, but

688
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:10,400
Speaker 1: there's no real good concrete evidence that Vickers was pretty adamant.

689
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: He even even noted in his will and as well

690
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: he accused the thief. Yeah, I guess, but you know,

691
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 1: at the same time, you can kind of look at

692
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: it like if you were guilty of it and you

693
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 1: found somebody who like people are kind of thinking, well,

694
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,759
Speaker 1: it could have been this person, right, I guess that's

695
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: vaguely possible that was this person, and you didn't want

696
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,239
Speaker 1: to get caught. The potential for you to say, oh, yeah,

697
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: I was told that person. And here's like all the

698
00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: reasons that I think it was that person. You know,

699
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that you wouldn't do that. Yeah. Well,

700
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 1: the problem is, and here's the other thing about Shackleton,

701
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 1: he wasn't the best guy in the world himself either.

702
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like any of these guys were good guys.

703
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 1: Well no, but Shackleton himself he went to prison in

704
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: nineteen for trying to cheat some lady out of a

705
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,320
Speaker 1: bunch of money her her inheritance. Uh. And so he

706
00:42:03,719 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: went to jail for I think he was in jail

707
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 1: for like twenty years long. Yeah, he was in jail

708
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: for ten or twenty years. Like, he didn't he jil

709
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,719
Speaker 1: He's the longest living one of the group of the

710
00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 1: five guys that we're talking about here. So he spent

711
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,359
Speaker 1: time in jail after this, Yes, after so five years

712
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 1: after this theft happens he goes to jail for ten

713
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 1: or twenty years, and that's the only reason he ends

714
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: up being living as long as he did. And we'll

715
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 1: talk about the death of these guys as well here

716
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 1: in a little bit. But let's let's move on. So

717
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: we'll we'll move away from Shackleton a little bit, actually,

718
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:41,840
Speaker 1: and we'll go to what Joe was talking about, which is,

719
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: where was it you or Joe that talked about them

720
00:42:44,120 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: being able to be had for a small amount of money. Okay,

721
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: So this next theory is that the Irish government has

722
00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:56,720
Speaker 1: had them all along. And nineteen seventy six and Irish

723
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:02,720
Speaker 1: government document is released, a memoranda which is dated nineteen seven,

724
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: which is twenty years after the theft, and then another

725
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 1: fifty years later it gets released as publication effects essentially yes,

726
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: and it says the Castle Jewels are for sale and

727
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:22,239
Speaker 1: they could be got for two to three thousand pounds. Well,

728
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: people interpret this that a the jewels had not been

729
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 1: broken apart and they were still intact as of ninety seven.

730
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: They also infer that they could be purchased and that

731
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: maybe the government wanted to purchase them to keep down

732
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: the Irish people. In other words, a lot of these

733
00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: orders at this point in that the late twenties, they're

734
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: gone because if you look at Irish history, this is

735
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: at the beginning of a lot of the turmoil where

736
00:43:54,239 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 1: you have unionists and anti unionists in Ireland. The basicly

737
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 1: the Crown has said you can be free or not.

738
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: The Protestants and the Catholic fight, which makes the i Rara,

739
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: which is a lot of stuff that we know and

740
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 1: more current history, but that's right around when that stuff

741
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 1: was happening. So they probably didn't if if we're going

742
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: to say that the Crown had them, they didn't want

743
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:21,759
Speaker 1: it out there that, hey, we found these you guys

744
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,920
Speaker 1: are re stored to your former glory. Yes, we we

745
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: want you to stay down so that we can keep

746
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 1: control of the ones that we have control of and

747
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: not have this big co buffalo happened. You know, So

748
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: you know that that means that must be there in

749
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 1: the Tower of London. Then where else would they keep them?

750
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,160
Speaker 1: Where else would they keep them? The the other direction

751
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:45,680
Speaker 1: that this whole they had the Irish or the government

752
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: has them is remember how we talked about Shackleton might

753
00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: be having some bit of mystery information that was embarrassing.

754
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: So it might be that they did have them, somebody

755
00:44:56,760 --> 00:45:00,440
Speaker 1: knew about it, and maybe we're trying to sell them,

756
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: and then that got quelled and they got stuffed in

757
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: a shelf for in a drawer somewhere in an archive

758
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 1: with the Ark of the Covenant, and they'll never be

759
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 1: seen again. Right, That's exactly right. So I just like,

760
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 1: for the sake of correcting you all the time, every time,

761
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,359
Speaker 1: Ark of the Covenant wouldn't fit in a drawer. If

762
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:27,839
Speaker 1: it's a big enough drawer, it'll fit pretty big the

763
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: house or the size of a watch, all right, if

764
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: we're saying it's a room sized drawer, So leave the

765
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 1: drawers out of this, okay. Well, regardless regardless of which

766
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: way it goes down. There was a lot, I mean

767
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: a lot of really odd behavior on the part of

768
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: the Irish government. Well there, their record keeping leaves a

769
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: lot to be desired. Remember we talked about that police

770
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: report that disappeared. There's all kinds of records from this

771
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 1: time and this case that have disappeared. Now a lot

772
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 1: of it has been put up on the net. I mean,

773
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 1: you can read these old type. It's funny to read

774
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,800
Speaker 1: the old typewritten accounts, because I forget. The typewriters aren't

775
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: even whereas the word processor today is. So I'm reading, going, Wow,

776
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,160
Speaker 1: this computer sucks. This scan is terrible. Oh no, wait,

777
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 1: that's just the way the typewriter wrote. It is kind

778
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 1: of up and down and uneven. We're used to these

779
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 1: things now, but some of these things are there and

780
00:46:28,840 --> 00:46:31,799
Speaker 1: some of them are just flat out gone. But that

781
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: takes us to our last theory. I was gonna say,

782
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: whiskey man, that's that's your theories. It's the whiskey. No,

783
00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: I mean, whiskey makes you do dumb things. It does,

784
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: it really does. All right, Well, let's let's go to

785
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: our last theory. Uh, we're We're gonna move ahead to

786
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,400
Speaker 1: And there's an article in the Carryman, which is an

787
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: Irish newspaper, and there's a guy by the name of

788
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: Michael Murphy who is the nephew of Michael Murphy, of

789
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: Michael Murphy who was the valet of Arthur Vickers. And

790
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 1: he did a bunch of research on this and he

791
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 1: said he had discovered the hiding place of the Irish

792
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: Crown jewels at kill MoMA House. Is that how you

793
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:29,480
Speaker 1: pronounce that? Anybody have any better idea, I don't k

794
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: thank you. Kil mourna house on Friday, fourteenth of August

795
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 1: twelve years ago, just twelve years ago, maybe a little

796
00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 1: more than that. Murphy was instructed by a quote unquote

797
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: informant to go to the old garden of the house,

798
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: where he discovered a stone behind a brick wall with

799
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: a Latin inscription. Of course, he believed the jewels had

800
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: been removed from that box that was in the stone.

801
00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: He said. He found a portion of an old map

802
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: and other documents from the house before it was burned,

803
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 1: and that indicated to him that someone had stolen the

804
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: jewels and solved the mystery. But here's the thing I

805
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:17,160
Speaker 1: come were in the house that was Vicker's house. That

806
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 1: was Vicker's house, and it was raised to the ground

807
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: in nineteen twenty one, the IRA burned it down. Now

808
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 1: the murdered Vickers. I was gonna say, everybody involved in

809
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 1: this story, except for Shackleton, did not get off easy. Uh.

810
00:48:32,840 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 1: The IRA killed Vickers in ninety one. They like thirty

811
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: guys shot him at once and then they burned his house. Uh,

812
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,840
Speaker 1: we've got Bennett Goldney. He died in nineteen eighteen after

813
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: a car accident. Yeah, Shackleton died in nineteen forty one.

814
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,919
Speaker 1: He served as prison sentence, went out under a different name,

815
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: and then died of old age. And uh, Sydney how

816
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 1: what was his name? Hawk Horlock, Sydney Horlock. I couldn't.

817
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: I came across how he died, and then when I

818
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 1: went to find it again, I couldn't find it. But

819
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: he died in the nineteen teens as well, if I

820
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: I remember correctly, And it wasn't a pleasant end, like

821
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: I don't remember something. Yeah, a nineteen hundreds version of

822
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:23,840
Speaker 1: a wood Chat basically. But yeah, none of these guys

823
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: did really well. But as we said, it's it's it's

824
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,440
Speaker 1: very possible that if these things got stolen, the jewels

825
00:49:30,600 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 1: had to have been broken up to be resold. Now,

826
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: if they're top quality diamonds and rubies and emeralds, even

827
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: in a new piece, they're gonna fetch top dollar, but

828
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: they're not going to be traceable. But that's that's all

829
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:49,000
Speaker 1: we know. We don't know exactly where they disappeared. Who

830
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: could have actually stolen them other than Joe who swears

831
00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: it was the cleaning lady. Now I don't know that

832
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: might have been a cleaning lady. Makes it just sounds

833
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 1: like the sounds like Vickers was careless enough about security

834
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: and about keeping his keys, you know, like close to him.

835
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,680
Speaker 1: He was really terrible. Yeah, it seems to me that

836
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:10,439
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of people that could have stolen,

837
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: including including the cleaning lady. There was all this was

838
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,720
Speaker 1: also essentially a police station. There were lots of cops

839
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: coming and going and uh, which do you know, I

840
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: mean not to say anything about about police, but they're

841
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 1: you know, they are known have corruption there that does happen,

842
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: you know, And so I mean there's all kinds of

843
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,440
Speaker 1: people who coming and going on that building, the constal

844
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: in these things. So yeah, I mean it's yeah. I mean,

845
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: would you guys have a theory that you you adhere

846
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: to or you prefer I'm gonna stick with Shackleton just

847
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 1: for the sheer heck of it. I don't know, Devin, No,

848
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: I mean, I think they all kind of seem equally

849
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,120
Speaker 1: inept and dumb and bad at their jobs, and kind

850
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,399
Speaker 1: of they all have good reason to have stolen them.

851
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 1: I mean if just even just if you know, for sheer,

852
00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: you can break it up and sell them for a

853
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: good amount of money. I mean, I don't think that

854
00:50:56,200 --> 00:51:00,759
Speaker 1: I can't pick one kind of rich, entitled jerk over another. Right,

855
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:04,319
Speaker 1: and all kind of sound the same. Yeah, I have

856
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 1: a and I have a hard time pinning down. I mean,

857
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 1: the one theory that we really haven't talked about is

858
00:51:08,239 --> 00:51:10,719
Speaker 1: there was there's a group known as the Irish Brotherhood.

859
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: There was talk that they had smuggled them out of

860
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,919
Speaker 1: the country to be sold in the United States. But

861
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,600
Speaker 1: that's as far as that theory goes. Yeah, I mean, well,

862
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:23,799
Speaker 1: the the Irish Brotherhood is the early version of the

863
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:27,279
Speaker 1: I R A right, But I couldn't find anything to

864
00:51:27,320 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 1: even lend a creed and souther there's rumors, so my

865
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,319
Speaker 1: I gotta agree that I think that it's just the

866
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:36,280
Speaker 1: Shackloon was so inapped that there were so many people. Yeah,

867
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,640
Speaker 1: excuse me, thank you. Wasn't Shackleton. I don't think Shackleton did.

868
00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:42,759
Speaker 1: I think he was kind of the easy scapegoat in this.

869
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 1: You know, the the quote unquote guy who was bad

870
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 1: with money air quotes here that nobody can see and

871
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: that you know, Vickers just left the door open and

872
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: somebody he was just waiting for somebody to come in

873
00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 1: and steal the sheep, and I don't themselves. I mean

874
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 1: it's hard, it's it's hard to tell, Yeah, except that

875
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: he never he never lived a lavish lifestyle. It once

876
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: he was, you know, expelled from office. It wasn't like

877
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,880
Speaker 1: he was living high on the hog or emigrated to

878
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:16,680
Speaker 1: another country to live lavishly. So that that's the reason

879
00:52:16,719 --> 00:52:18,959
Speaker 1: that I don't think Vickers himself did it. I guess

880
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell because you know, if you you

881
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,000
Speaker 1: do that sort of thing and you get away with it,

882
00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: you go and live a lavish lifestyle. But if you've

883
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: been called into questioning and there's like a private inquiry

884
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: into you, are you gonna be smart enough to say,

885
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:34,680
Speaker 1: like a crap, I better like waited out a couple

886
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 1: more years and then you get shot to death by

887
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: the fourteen years later. Well that's a long time to

888
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,319
Speaker 1: wait it out. Yeah, that's true. Now, granted, there's been

889
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,800
Speaker 1: thieves who have stolen major pieces of art and waited

890
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty years trying to sell it. But still,

891
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:52,359
Speaker 1: I just I don't know. I have a hard time

892
00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 1: pointing the figure at Vickers. But that's just me. But

893
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,720
Speaker 1: ladies and gentlemen, if you've if you've got any thoughts

894
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 1: of your own, we'd love to hear about them. You

895
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:03,719
Speaker 1: can always put a comment on the website with your

896
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,680
Speaker 1: thoughts about this particular story that website is thinking Sideways

897
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:13,239
Speaker 1: podcast dot com of course, dot com of course you can.

898
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:16,320
Speaker 1: You can listen to the shows there. You can listen

899
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: to them on iTunes and download subscribe through there. If

900
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 1: you're on iTunes, go and take the time to leave

901
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:25,439
Speaker 1: us comment and rating. We always like that. Uh, if

902
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:27,960
Speaker 1: you forget to download a show and you know that

903
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 1: it's that day that we're gonna put one out Thursday, Thursday,

904
00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 1: we don't have to be secretive us Thursday. It's Thursday.

905
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:35,799
Speaker 1: Thursday's my favorite day of the week. That's why we

906
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: do it on Thursdays. No, not really, but you can

907
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:42,360
Speaker 1: go ahead and you can download or download is the

908
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 1: wrong word. You can stream it on Stitcher. Stitcher will

909
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,280
Speaker 1: allow you to listen to its streaming on any mobile

910
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 1: ready device, tablet, phone, whatever the case may be. I know,

911
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: isn't an amazing joke. I know it's your first time

912
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: figured to learn about this. Yeah. Now, of course we've

913
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: got the Facebook page, so we've got the group and

914
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:07,280
Speaker 1: we've got the page, so please find us and friend

915
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,279
Speaker 1: us on those to see what we've got going on.

916
00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:12,279
Speaker 1: Things were putting up to some good discussions. And of

917
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:14,919
Speaker 1: course if you did, if you were actually the one

918
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 1: who stole the jewels or related to the one who

919
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: stole the joy lot, you want to tell us, you

920
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: can send us an email and we it's all in confidence,

921
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:26,279
Speaker 1: absolutely not in confidence that email. We were going to

922
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: read that over there on the air. We'll keep your

923
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: name quiet though. That email address is thinking Sideways Podcast

924
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. And with that, uh, I guess

925
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:43,319
Speaker 1: that's all we've got. Yeah, right, So, yeah, kind of

926
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: a short one this week. Sorry about that, kids, We

927
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: know you'd like to Yeah. Short is an average time. Yes,

928
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think that we haven't. This is

929
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 1: kind of unusual, but we haven't solved the mystery right now,

930
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 1: I really I did this. Joe at it alright, guys, well,

931
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,399
Speaker 1: we're gonna go ahead and wrap this one up and

932
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:09,720
Speaker 1: we will talk to you next week. I do own them, though, really,

933
00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:11,359
Speaker 1: why are you looking at me like that? I own

934
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: them