1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 2: An attempt to crack down on illegal mining in South 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 2: Africa has ended in disaster. 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 3: The total of three hundred and twenty four the extraction 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 3: has been done and out of the three hundred and 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 3: twenty four, seventy eight. 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,080 Speaker 1: Remm remains or corpses. 8 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: Authorities sealed off shafts at the buffos Fontein gold mine 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: in October, hoping to cut off the miners access to essentials, 10 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 2: but it left as many as one thousand people trapped 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 2: underground without any access to help. Civil rights groups claim 12 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: more than one hundred people have now died. 13 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 4: I've witnessed data, I've witnessed a lot of things, have 14 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 4: seen hair with my It's like I was in a 15 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 4: scary movie, but it was reality to me because I 16 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 4: was there. I was witnessing everything, and then I took risky. 17 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 4: I told myself, I'm not gonna die under clown. 18 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 2: In today's episode of The Next Africa podcast, we'll ask 19 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: what's driving people into illegal mining, why the authorities were 20 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 2: so keen to try and shut it down, and how 21 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 2: this ended in tragedy, with the government forced to back 22 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: down and rescue the miners. 23 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 3: Then some members of the government are parents to boy 24 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 3: children and how would they feel if their children were 25 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 3: underground dying of hunger. 26 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 2: I'm Jennifer's Abasadja and this is the Next Africa Podcast, 27 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 2: bringing you one story each week from the continent driving 28 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 2: the future of global growth with the context only Bloomberg 29 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 2: can provide. Joining me this week is Bloomberg stembile Sele, 30 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: who's been on the ground at the Bulfha Spontein mine. 31 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: Cimbilee. 32 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us, especially considering a lot 33 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 2: of the work and the reporting that's gone into this. 34 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 2: So let's just start with a bit of context. How 35 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 2: big of an issue is illegal mining for South Africa. 36 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 3: So the closest estimates that we have is the potential 37 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 3: loss or what the Minerals Minister, Guero Mandasha refers to 38 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 3: as a leekal to the economy. 39 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 1: In fact, he. 40 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 3: Goes as far as to call it as an attack 41 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,519 Speaker 3: on the economy. But he's saying that in the last year, 42 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: sixty billion iran that's three billion dollars has been lost 43 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 3: as a result of illegal mining. And then where the 44 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:27,399 Speaker 3: stems from really is a number of abandoned or disused 45 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,679 Speaker 3: mines in South Africa is about six thousand in totals, 46 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 3: where you have people going into them and mining independently 47 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 3: or artisanal mining as it's called in some places, but 48 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 3: in South Africa it's illegal. So it's illegal mining trying 49 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,560 Speaker 3: to get whatever it is that they can still extract 50 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 3: from the earth to sell for money. 51 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: And it happens on a number of levels. 52 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 3: Because I think the first maybe point of context is 53 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 3: around former miners who themselves were a part of these 54 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 3: minds when they were active and licensed and so on, 55 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 3: and so they have a good sense of how things 56 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,079 Speaker 3: are underneath. They know where the sections of the shafts 57 00:02:59,919 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 3: are where they're likely to get. 58 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 1: The most minerals from. 59 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 3: And so I think that's the first category of miners 60 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 3: that we're seeing test. Basically, people that use to work 61 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:10,919 Speaker 3: in minds, they lost their jobs when the minds closed, 62 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 3: and now they're failing to make. 63 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 1: An income in any other way. 64 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 3: Then you have people that have never mind before, but 65 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 3: they're hearing, hey, there's a bit of a gold rush 66 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 3: happening underneath the earth. Go and try your luck, and 67 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 3: when you are hungry. The unemployment rate is one of 68 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 3: the highest recorded in the world. It does become a 69 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 3: very real option. And then I think the third category 70 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,119 Speaker 3: is given this vacuum that is there, given the lack 71 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 3: of formalization around artisanal mining, if we could call it that, 72 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 3: you have these massive cross border criminal syndicates that have 73 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 3: gotten involved, and their operations are extensive, they're highly armed, 74 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 3: they're very dangerous. You'll find in these communities where there 75 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 3: are these abandoned minds and there is this activity, particularly words, 76 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 3: driven by these syndicates, crime tends to skyrocket in the 77 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 3: early as well. We've heard horror stories of mass rapes 78 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 3: of women, extreme violence that happens in people's home as 79 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 3: a results of these syndicates. The other side of it, 80 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 3: and we'll get into this a little bit later on 81 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 3: when we speak about the people that have surfaced from 82 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 3: this mine, is that there is an element that appears 83 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 3: to be human trafficking where you see people from neighboring 84 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 3: countries mallowing Mosim beacon particular, that find themselves maybe being 85 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 3: called by a relative to say, hey, so and so 86 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 3: is in South Africa. Go and stay with them for 87 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 3: a while. They've got a really good opportunity for you. 88 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 3: They make their way across the border. Most of the 89 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 3: time illegally. When they arrive, they told that they need 90 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 3: to go underground and mine for the cold and other precious. 91 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: Messiles, and they were essentially held hostage. 92 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 3: They're against their will, they're not allowed to leave, and 93 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 3: their lives are run explosisively by these syndicates. And so 94 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 3: I think that's broadly the picture of how it's unfolding. 95 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 3: The other missing elements I think around this is where 96 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 3: is the market, because obviously South Africa exports all of 97 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 3: its precious metals, and so it's not clear where these 98 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 3: minerals are actually going. But it goes without saying that 99 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 3: they are leaving the ports and the borders of South 100 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 3: FA and I think that's something that the police really 101 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 3: need to be looking into, because in as far as 102 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 3: you can't shut down that market, you're going to struggle 103 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,279 Speaker 3: to clamp down on this practice for as long as 104 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 3: you believe that it shouldn't be formulized and should be 105 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 3: done away with. 106 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 2: It's such a complicated and nuanced picture that you just 107 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 2: painted there. 108 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: You were talking about the police. 109 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 2: So let's bring in sort of what we've been seeing 110 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 2: over the past few months here in South Africa, and 111 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,320 Speaker 2: that's really this crackdown. We saw the authorities targeting this 112 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 2: Buffa Spontein gold mine. Why this one and what were 113 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 2: they doing to try and shut it down? 114 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,799 Speaker 3: So I think for context, this is not the only operation, 115 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 3: and the security forces embarked on what they call on 116 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 3: operation of Islam Quoti, which is the literal Zoo translation 117 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 3: for close the whole. And so they've looked at a 118 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,599 Speaker 3: number of disused or abandoned minds where there is this 119 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 3: illegal minding activity taking place, and they've sort of taken 120 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 3: this approach. I think this has just been on a 121 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: more larger scale and it's been one of the most 122 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 3: active that. 123 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: They have taken this project on. 124 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 3: Right, So this particular instance begins in October of twenty 125 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:04,240 Speaker 3: twenty four. 126 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: You have police arriving in their numbers and. 127 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 3: They attempt to close the shaft basically, and what that 128 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 3: looks like in reality is to say, any provisions food, water, 129 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 3: medication that goes down the shaft, we're stopping that from happening. 130 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 3: We're stopping people from entering the mine already. And so 131 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 3: when you're an illegal miner, the way that it works 132 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 3: is that you rely on people on the outside to 133 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 3: bring these provisions to you also to let you inside 134 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: and outside of the shaft. So if there's no one 135 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 3: on the other side that's assisting you, you are stuck there. 136 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 3: I think something else to bear in mind is that 137 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 3: they are underground for months at a time. So in 138 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 3: the case of bufore Fontane, there are people that say 139 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 3: that they've been there since February, so that's almost a year. 140 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 3: And so the police's intention with the strategy really was 141 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 3: to say you are now forced to come out because 142 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 3: you have no way of surviving underground, and that's to 143 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 3: look like prohibiting community members or people that they work 144 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 3: alongside these illegal miners from bringing them these provisions. And 145 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 3: what we've seen is the number of court cases led 146 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 3: by NGOs that are assisting community members and family members 147 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 3: of people underground to try and compel the government to 148 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 3: allow for these provisions to be let down. So the intention, 149 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 3: as I mentioned, is to force people. 150 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: To come out. 151 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 3: And when we look at the setup as it were 152 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 3: of this particular mind, there's three shafts and the men 153 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 3: that we're dealing with two of those shafts. It is 154 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 3: possible for you to come out by yourself without assistance. 155 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 3: It's not easy, but there's infrastructure, there's a stair wall, 156 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 3: there's a staircase, there's something that you can hold on to, 157 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 3: you to drag yourself up the mind that has become 158 00:07:38,640 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 3: the death trap where this tragedy is now unfolding. 159 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: It's shaft number eleven. 160 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 3: The difficulty with this one is that it's three klumeters 161 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: deep underground. There is no climbing infrastructure, so the only 162 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 3: way in and out is to be dragged out. And 163 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: so initially, when the police had stopped people from going 164 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,119 Speaker 3: in and out, the community and family members had taken 165 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 3: it upon themselves to create like a makeshift pulley system 166 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 3: that was made of rope, and so some of the people, 167 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 3: very few that who've seen emerge from this particular shaft 168 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 3: of the three have been retrieved or extracted in that manner. 169 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 3: At some point the police came in and they stopped 170 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,480 Speaker 3: even that community driven initiative from taking place, and I 171 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 3: think so that's how we've seen the sort of escalation 172 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 3: over the past few weeks where there's no food getting 173 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 3: two people, particularly in the shaft, and so a number 174 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 3: of them, we believe that number maybeage one hundred by 175 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 3: the end of this week. 176 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 1: Many of them have starved to death. 177 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 3: Some of them all have fall into their death trying 178 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 3: to make it up that police system when it was 179 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 3: a possibility. We understand that things got so severe. There 180 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 3: are claims by some of the miners that have been 181 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 3: able to come up that things got so bad people 182 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 3: were eating cockroaches down there. Some are claiming that there 183 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 3: were instances of cannibalism. 184 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: Of course, we can't confirm me. 185 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 3: Any of that, but that is the reports and that's 186 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 3: how people are describing the conditions at Shoft number eleven. 187 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: Stick with us. We come back. 188 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: We'll talk about the rescue operation that's finally taking place 189 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,560 Speaker 2: and whether or not there's actually going to be more 190 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: crackdowns like this and some of the other mines across 191 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:10,160 Speaker 2: the country. 192 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. 193 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 2: Welcome back today on the podcast, we're talking about illegal 194 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: mining and how a crackdown on one mine in South 195 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 2: Africa reportedly led to the deaths of as many as 196 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 2: one hundred miners. Stembulay is still with us and has 197 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 2: been on the scene there, so Stimbulay, the government refused 198 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 2: at first to help get miners out, as you were 199 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,839 Speaker 2: describing for us earlier, who were the people then that 200 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: helped them. Is it some of these NGOs that you 201 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 2: were mentioning. 202 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 3: So I think this is also what has led to 203 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 3: the mass of animosity and hostility that is taking place 204 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 3: between community members, family members, and the governments. In the 205 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 3: very early days of this operation, where it really wasn't 206 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 3: clear what the setup was and that there was a 207 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 3: shoft where people, even if they wanted to come out 208 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:00,320 Speaker 3: physically could not, the government took a really tough position. 209 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 3: We heard the Minister and the Presidency don't have any 210 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 3: saying that government was not going to get involved in 211 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 3: assisting people that were essentially criminals. Of course they've not 212 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 3: been bought at that point before a court of law, 213 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 3: but they were for all intents and purposes, involved in 214 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 3: criminal activity by participating in this illegal gold mining. And 215 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 3: so I think that's where the breakdown and the relationship happened. 216 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 3: And when the government was folding their arms and saying, 217 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 3: you do what you want, but we will arrest you 218 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 3: as soon as you come up here, we then saw 219 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 3: community members coming in and the first thing that they did, 220 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 3: obviously was to fundraise money to try and get food. 221 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 3: When the court orders did come that temporarily did allow 222 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 3: for some provision to send down. We saw them putting 223 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 3: together this Pulley system. On the sidelines of that, we 224 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 3: also saw court action that was driven by NGOs or 225 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 3: sponsored by them on behalf of family and community members. 226 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 3: And this is where they were also doing their part 227 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 3: before the court to try and compel governments to do 228 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 3: something about this. This then comes to a head last 229 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,959 Speaker 3: week Friday when an applicant Zinzi Tom is a woman 230 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 3: whose brother is underground at shaft number eleven. She then 231 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 3: went to court and I think this would have been 232 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 3: the fifth court case involving the government in this particular 233 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 3: matter where she was pleading with the court basically to 234 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 3: force government to assist her. And in that session before court, 235 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 3: government then said, you know what, we don't need to 236 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 3: carry on with this case. We are happy to reach 237 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 3: a settlement. We are going to assist. And what that 238 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:27,599 Speaker 3: assistance has looked like is bringing the Minerals Council organization 239 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 3: on board to provide the twelve million Rand that is 240 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 3: needed to fund this rescue operation. 241 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,719 Speaker 1: They bring the heavy machinery that. 242 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 3: Has basically a cage that goes down like an elevator 243 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 3: and is able to then extract to bring people back 244 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 3: from this two point eight kilometer put and so this 245 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 3: rescue operation it. 246 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: Began on Monday. 247 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 3: For their part, the government is arguing that at some 248 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: point they did make the realization and it's not that 249 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 3: they were against assisting people, but that they were just 250 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 3: waiting for the best way to go about it, and 251 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,559 Speaker 3: when that opportunity presented itself, they found the funding, they 252 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 3: found a plan that would work. They they did embark 253 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,199 Speaker 3: upon it. They weren't dragging their feeds. But I think 254 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:08,559 Speaker 3: the complicated part is it also depends on who you're 255 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 3: speaking to, because again the Minerals minister Guende Mandesha, he 256 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 3: is adamant that this is an illegal activity. There's no 257 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 3: human rights element, there's no humanitarian assistance that is required. 258 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 3: You can't do these things for people that are obviously 259 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 3: anciently criminals. And so that's the lay of the land 260 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,719 Speaker 3: politically speaking. But there really has been then some animosity 261 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,080 Speaker 3: given the stance from government between them and the NGOs 262 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 3: and community and family members of those who are trapped, 263 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 3: particularly at Shoft eleven of this mine. 264 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 2: Before we let you go, stim be like, can you 265 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 2: just describe for us the situation there on the ground. 266 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 2: You spent time there, obviously speaking with authorities but also 267 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 2: with the community. What can you tell us about some 268 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 2: of the takeaways that you got from being there. 269 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 3: I think just incredibly somber. Watching things unfold is kind 270 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 3: of in the middle of nowhere, It deserted, it is 271 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 3: extremely hot, and you just see the hub of activity, 272 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 3: so many police vehicles, and I think just the most 273 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,959 Speaker 3: chilling thing is really seeing the amounts of Forensic Pathology 274 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 3: Services vehicles that were standing by to gather up the bodies. 275 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 3: And so even though we're at somewhat of a distance 276 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 3: from the actual shaft opening, you could see when the 277 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 3: bodies were being extracted and they were loaded into these vehicles. 278 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 3: And I must just tell you that the smell of 279 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 3: the decomposed bodies was extreme. It stuck to the people 280 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,320 Speaker 3: that had emerged or were rescued from the shaft. Of 281 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,319 Speaker 3: the people that we saw are being rescued yesterday and 282 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 3: the day before, they were extremely young, some young boys 283 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 3: who were about fourteen fifteen years old, who were nothing 284 00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 3: but skin and bones, given that they'd been underground for 285 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 3: so long without any provision, and so the scenes really 286 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 3: unfolding there an absolutely horrific situation. 287 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 1: To be watching, and I'm assuming that you're. 288 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 3: A family member or a community member, you have someone 289 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 3: that's underground that you care about. 290 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: It is also a really scary moment. 291 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 3: For you because you're hoping for the best and that 292 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 3: they're be one of the lucky ones that. 293 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: Actually emerge still alive. 294 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 3: But there's also those that have given up and have 295 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 3: got in the sense that they're just waiting for a 296 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,480 Speaker 3: body and they just want the closure to be able 297 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 3: to bury the person that they love. And so yeah, 298 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 3: I think there's a very somber mood there at the 299 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 3: before sputeen mine. 300 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: And you can read all of our coverage across Bloomberg platforms. 301 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 2: Now here's some of the other stories we've been following 302 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 2: across the region. This week, the US State Department demanded 303 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,640 Speaker 2: that Rwanda stop using GPS jamming equipment in Eastern Democratic 304 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 2: Republic of Congo, where millions of people displaced by conflict 305 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 2: are desperate for aid. The jamming and the so called 306 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 2: spoofing is preventing United Nations peacekeeping and humanitarian aircraft from 307 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 2: flying in the region, the Department said in a statement 308 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 2: on Wednesday. And Gaban's military leader has picked a new 309 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 2: Economy Minister to resolve the Central African oil producers' debt woes. 310 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 2: Mark Domba, an entrepreneur who's studied public administration at Harvard University, 311 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 2: takes the helm of the key ministry after a cabinet 312 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 2: reshuffle announced Wednesday on the Presidency's Facebook page. The shakeup 313 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 2: comes days after the World Banks suspended disbursements to Gabon 314 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 2: over arrears of twenty seven million dollars. The OPEC member 315 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 2: also has dollar bonds maturing in June of twenty twenty five. 316 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 2: And you can follow these stories across Bloomberg, including the 317 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 2: Next African Newsletter. We'll put a link to that in 318 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 2: the show notes. This program was produced by Adrian Bradley. 319 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 2: Don't forget to follow and review this show wherever you 320 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 2: usually get your podcasts. I'm Jennifer Zabasandra. Thanks as always 321 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 2: for listening.