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Speaker 1: Welcome back, fellow conspiracy realist. We've dug through the vaults

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Speaker 1: and we are declassifying one of our classic episodes, The

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Speaker 1: Future of Censorship? What should people be allowed to say?

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Speaker 2: Online?

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Speaker 3: Who Buddy?

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Speaker 2: Who Doggies?

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Speaker 3: November twenty eighteen feels like another lifetime ago.

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Speaker 2: That was it kind of was.

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Speaker 1: We were asking the right questions and we hope that

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Speaker 1: you find some of the exploration here, folks as prescient

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Speaker 1: as we did, or better or worse?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Who gets to control what you say and think?

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Speaker 3: Is it a group?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: Is it a company? Is it just an individual? Air?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Or somebody commenting?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: Is someone in a comment section? Do they control what

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Speaker 3: you get to say or not? It's so weird, man,

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Speaker 3: let's jump into it.

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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben, and we are joined with our

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Speaker 1: super producer Paul Mission Control Decat most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know.

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Speaker 2: This is an.

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Speaker 1: Episode though was surprised we hadn't done before.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go ahead and stop you there. We can't

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Speaker 3: continue on that line. Okay, We're gonna have to stop

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Speaker 3: going down that line. So let's just move on with

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Speaker 3: something else.

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Speaker 2: Okay, understood.

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Speaker 1: Well, then let's let's jump to the second point and

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Speaker 1: get this out of the way first.

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Speaker 2: Very very very.

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry that one is also just oh man, we

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Speaker 3: can't go there either. I'm sorry. They're just telling me.

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Speaker 3: I've got them in my ear and they're telling me

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Speaker 3: we can't.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, let me phrase this in a different way way.

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Speaker 1: Let's get this out of the way first. Very very

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Speaker 1: few countries you will visit in the modern day are

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Speaker 1: completely free from censorship.

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Speaker 3: Okay, we'll let that one stand.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, is that vague enough?

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Speaker 1: It's still, no kidding, a vast improvement over the days

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Speaker 1: of past civilizations. Though we talk about censorship where we

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Speaker 1: talk around it so often. In our show, Matt earlier,

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Speaker 1: you and I dove into a very dark taiale of

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Speaker 1: current concentration camps and the vast amounts of censorship that

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Speaker 1: the Chinese government is applying to the weaker communities.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, we did Unfortunately we had to We talked about

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Speaker 3: that because it's real and it's something that needs to

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Speaker 3: be shared at least. But in this case we're just

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Speaker 3: we're talking about thought control. Really, that's what this is,

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Speaker 3: this whole subject.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, ultimately this is an episode on thought control. How

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Speaker 1: does it work, What if anything, can you do to

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Speaker 1: prevent it? And how is it evolving in the modern day.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about censorship, and the first thing that we

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Speaker 1: have to explore when we talk about censorship, this word

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Speaker 1: that we all hear thrown around so often, is how

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Speaker 1: it is defined. What do we mean when we say censorship.

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Speaker 3: Generally it's the suppression or in many cases, the complete

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Speaker 3: prohibition of books, art, films, news, speech itself, works of

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Speaker 3: art that depict certain things, all of these things that

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Speaker 3: could be considered, for one reason or another, obscene to

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Speaker 3: a ruling group, something that's seen as politically unacceptable or

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Speaker 3: in some way a threat to the status quo, or

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Speaker 3: like anything basically having to do with the people who

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Speaker 3: are in.

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Speaker 1: Power, right or a threat to security, or sure a

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Speaker 1: threat to social, spiritual, cultural norms. And right now there

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Speaker 1: are several broad category worries of what we call censorship

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Speaker 1: The first one, historically speaking, is moral censorship, and right now,

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Speaker 1: this is one of the most universally accepted forms of

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Speaker 1: censoring things, especially regarding stuff that most of the world

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Speaker 1: can get on board with, like the censorship of certain

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Speaker 1: types of illegal pornography.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, or the censorship of things like beheading videos, certain

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Speaker 3: forms of violence depicted.

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Speaker 1: Not everyone agrees on that one agreed.

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Speaker 2: Not everyone agrees is terrible, but true.

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Speaker 3: But it's generally generally something that's done. There are also

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Speaker 3: types of moral censorship just through social media right now,

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Speaker 3: just by enough people talking and pointing out things that

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Speaker 3: would be considered to be morally apprehensive.

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Speaker 2: You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: And we went to pornography first because it's a hot

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Speaker 1: button issue and it's banned in a lot of countries.

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Speaker 1: But imagine that you are, say, traveling to certain Middle

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Speaker 1: Eastern countries, and in your possession you have the wrong

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Speaker 1: kind of Islamic text or the wrong kind of Judeo

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Speaker 1: Christian text, and additionally, you have something kind of lewde

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Speaker 1: like a playboy magazine, because that's apparently you're reading material

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Speaker 1: when you fly across the ocean, playboys and religious works.

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Speaker 3: To be fair, it was a vintage, vintage Playboy magazine,

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Speaker 3: and it had the old article in there's an interview

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Speaker 3: with Michael Jackson. So I thought it was worth it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, you thought it was worth it to play

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Speaker 1: the dangerous game of passing customs with the help of

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Speaker 1: Michael Jackson. In several of those countries, these works would

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Speaker 1: be confiscated and you may well be detained because the

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Speaker 1: possession or importation of these things is a violation of

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Speaker 1: the law, and being sovereign countries, they get to decide

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Speaker 1: what breaks the law. This stuff happens today, it's not

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Speaker 1: just on the internet, and it's been happening for a

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Speaker 1: long time. It goes hand in hand with its close cousin,

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Speaker 1: religious censorship.

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Speaker 3: Oh yes, religious censorship. It's really speaking of vintage. This

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Speaker 3: is the one that goes all the way back pretty much.

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Speaker 3: In this version of censorship, you're looking at pretty much

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Speaker 3: any material, book, speech, otherwise art again that is questionable

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Speaker 3: or seen as questionable by a religious group. Again where

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Speaker 3: if you go back far enough, the religion, the religious

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Speaker 3: groups are the power, right, that's your government essentially in

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Speaker 3: a lot of places. And in this you're even going

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Speaker 3: to have limitations that are forced on less prevalent religions

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Speaker 3: by the ruling religion in a land. Let's say a

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Speaker 3: good example as the Catholic Church, which we'll see a

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Speaker 3: little further on in this episode.

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Speaker 1: And I wouldn't even say questionable. I would say objectionable

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Speaker 1: because this this kind of stuff reaches its heyday in

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Speaker 1: places where there is no descent or times and places

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Speaker 1: where there's no free speech. And as you said, man,

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Speaker 1: it's the dominant religion forcing limitations on less prevalent ones.

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Speaker 1: But it could also be a less dominant religion just

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Speaker 1: preventing its adherents from reading anything outside of the community's

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Speaker 1: approved scripts.

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Speaker 3: Sure like cult like behaviors.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that happens all the time with cults because they

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Speaker 1: don't want to They don't want your mind to be

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Speaker 1: polluted by worldly things or words that are not the

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Speaker 1: words of the great leaders, divine understanding, postulations, postulations, revelations,

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Speaker 1: they would say, regurgitations.

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Speaker 2: Quite so, some of.

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Speaker 1: Their opponents would say, you know what, some of the

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Speaker 1: cult leaders would say that too, because they're just speaking

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Speaker 1: for the trees or the space gods or whatever.

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Speaker 3: They're a conduit.

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Speaker 1: They're a conduit. Yes, they're the conduit. There are two

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Speaker 1: other types of closely related censorship that have I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe some merit, that's the thing. A lot of these

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Speaker 1: have some kind of merit. There's military censorship, which is

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Speaker 1: just keeping its opsack, you know, it's keeping military intelligence

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Speaker 1: and tactics confidential and away from specifically the enemy. This

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Speaker 1: only becomes problematic when the native civilian population is considered

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Speaker 1: the enemy, which happens all the time historically speaking absolutely.

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Speaker 3: And then of course you've got the cousin to that one.

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Speaker 3: They're all just distant cousins in a way. Some of

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Speaker 3: them may be a little even closer related. But the

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Speaker 3: act of political censorship, and this is important again, like

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Speaker 3: military censorship, sometimes governments have to keep things quiet or

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Speaker 3: secret so that a other countries and leaders don't know

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Speaker 3: what they're doing, which is even closer related to military

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Speaker 3: censorship than I'm letting on. That's like the I don't know,

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Speaker 3: the twin brother twin sister kind of deal, because a

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Speaker 3: lot of times the politics and the military are that

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Speaker 3: closely related. Sorry I'm going along here, but it's also

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Speaker 3: really important for countries and politicians and governments to keep

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Speaker 3: things from their own people to prevent them from overthrowing

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Speaker 3: the throne.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, to prevent rebellion. And that's so similar to

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Speaker 1: religious censorship too, right. The last one, which is the

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Speaker 1: rising star in the world of censorship is corporate censorship

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Speaker 1: is increasingly common in these our modern days. This is

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Speaker 1: the process through which editors of a corporate media outlet

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Speaker 1: would intervene, So anything from The New York Times to

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Speaker 1: our very own podcast would intervene to disrupt publishing of

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Speaker 1: information that makes a business or a business partner a

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Speaker 1: chrony look bad and then also suppress any alternative views or,

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Speaker 1: in the case of open advertisement, any alternative offers from

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Speaker 1: reaching the public sphere. So, just to pick an example

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Speaker 1: out of the ether, this would be something where let's

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Speaker 1: say NBC doesn't allow eight commercials for ABC shows to

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Speaker 1: be on their networks. But it could also be something

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Speaker 1: like Walmart moves to town and buys up all the

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Speaker 1: newspaper space so that the mom and pop story can't

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Speaker 1: buy a supplement to put in the Sunday paper.

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Speaker 3: That's not very nice, no, but.

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Speaker 1: It is censorship. And all of these forms of censorship

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Speaker 1: are currently extant. They exist today.

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Speaker 2: In the world.

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Speaker 1: Likely some version of this kind of stuff exists in

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Speaker 1: your own country, even if maybe like in the case

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Speaker 1: of religious censorship, your own country doesn't condone it. I

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Speaker 1: can almost guarantee you that if you have a military,

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Speaker 1: your government may not completely control aspects of it, and

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Speaker 1: that need to know basis is its own form of

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Speaker 1: self enforcing censorship.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And even if you believe that you live in

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Speaker 3: a country that doesn't have some kind of censorship over

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Speaker 3: its people, where we unfortunately have to inform you that

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Speaker 3: you're probably wrong.

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Speaker 1: Right, Oh yeah, oh my, you're so wrong. Yeah, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: especially here, guys. Yeah, it's here in the US where

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Speaker 1: we record this podcast, in this episode of this podcast,

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Speaker 1: And that leads us to ask, so, how long have

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Speaker 1: these practices been around? This is not stuff that we

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Speaker 1: just figured out as a species. Censorship is ancient. It

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Speaker 1: has followed human civilization throughout history like a sinister shadow,

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Speaker 1: just one step behind, sometimes looming larger than other times,

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Speaker 1: but always at every moment with us. And we'll get

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Speaker 1: to the crazy stuff pretty quickly. In this episode, we

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Speaker 1: want to explore where censorship came from. The modern word

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Speaker 1: we use today comes from Roman civilization.

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Speaker 2: There was an.

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Speaker 1: Actual dude, there was actual person, an actual political position

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Speaker 1: called a censor, and they ruled certain areas of Roman

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Speaker 1: policy with absolute power. When we say we mean absolute power,

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Speaker 1: we mean the other leaders could not contest or not

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Speaker 1: change their findings. And then when they were done serving

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Speaker 1: their time, a new censor could not change the findings

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Speaker 1: of the previous.

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Speaker 3: One at all.

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Speaker 2: No, Oh my gosh, it's just your word is law,

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Speaker 2: and that's all there is to it.

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Speaker 3: This is now what civilization can and can't do.

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Speaker 1: In these certain aspects of the law. The censor was

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Speaker 1: responsible for maintaining the census, not a big surprise there,

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Speaker 1: supervising public morality, and then overseeing some aspects of government finance.

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Speaker 2: So the most important part.

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Speaker 1: For our purposes today is there charged to supervise public morality.

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Speaker 1: This was something called the regimen morum. And it's key

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Speaker 1: here because the censors at first would punish or shame

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Speaker 1: people as individuals, both for activities in their private lives

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Speaker 1: that could be anything very serious from being quote overly

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Speaker 1: cruel to slaves or quote acting in theaters. You could

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Speaker 1: get in trouble for that as seen as dishonorable.

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Speaker 3: Acting in a theater mm hmm, and spoke.

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Speaker 1: Poorly to your character you could also get people in

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Speaker 1: trouble for their public behaviors, perjury, taking a bribe, or

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Speaker 1: keeping a good horse in bad condition, not taking good care.

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Speaker 2: Of your horse.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I can see why those would be looked down upon,

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Speaker 3: perhaps or at least frowned upon. All of those, actually,

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Speaker 3: especially the theater's one. And here's the other thing. The

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Speaker 3: consequences from being censored can include anything from being expelled

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Speaker 3: from the Senate if you were serving in the Senate

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Speaker 3: at the time, or you could even be expelled from

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Speaker 3: the tribe, your tribe, which would be a major blow

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Speaker 3: to you and your family.

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Speaker 2: Social excommunication. Right.

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Speaker 1: Then, of course this could lead to death. Everybody dies,

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Speaker 1: or most people do. It's just the timing would probably

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Speaker 1: not be to your liking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is crazy to think that you could be

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Speaker 3: censored to death.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And from this original duty, this one aspect of this

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Speaker 1: one to two person job, the Regiment Morham grew to

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Speaker 1: include the scrutiny of public speeches and performances and then

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Speaker 1: written work. And censorship was not seen as a bad,

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Speaker 1: authoritarian or heavy handed thing. It was seen as a benevolent,

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Speaker 1: just necessary, even noble way to maintain social order.

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Speaker 3: I think we got to just talk about this for

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Speaker 3: a second, because I think it's a difficult stance, but

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Speaker 3: it has to be taken that it's something that you

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Speaker 3: said at the top Bend, that this type of censorship,

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Speaker 3: once we get to this place where it's looking at everything,

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Speaker 3: is kind of necessary to get enough people on the

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Speaker 3: same page to build an empire or build a massive civilization,

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Speaker 3: especially on the scale of the Roman Empire at the time.

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Speaker 2: Sure, but does necessarily make it good?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely not, right, absolutely not, But but in a way

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Speaker 3: I guess in a way it is good in the moment, right,

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Speaker 3: And it's good for both the status quo of the

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Speaker 3: people who are trying to create this new order or

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Speaker 3: whatever it's going to be, as well as for the

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Speaker 3: citizens to some extent, because it sounds like they are

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Speaker 3: or the attempt here is to alter people's behavior to

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Speaker 3: be more in line with suiting a larger civilization.

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Speaker 1: Right And at the time, you know, these civilizations were

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Speaker 1: attempting to expand and enforce systematic inequality.

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Speaker 3: Yes, by engulfing other civilizations, smaller civilizations.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, And this.

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Speaker 1: One practice of a lot of ancient civilizations was a

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Speaker 1: very effective form of censorship restricting literacy to certain social classes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if you cannot write or read, then how are

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Speaker 3: you going to change anything?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: The most famous case of censorship in ancient Rome dates

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Speaker 1: back to Socrates. He was sentenced to death and they

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Speaker 1: told him to ingest poison in three ninety nine BCE.

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Speaker 3: What was his crime, though, corruption of youth and the

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Speaker 3: acknowledgment of unorthodox divinities.

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Speaker 1: Now right, wrong parties, wrong gods, that's what that sounds like.

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Speaker 1: Maybe causing the children of well to do members of

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Speaker 1: society to ask too many tough questions.

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Speaker 3: I think that's exactly what his issue was.

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Speaker 2: We literally call it this democratic method.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, by listening to someone's argument, taking parts of what

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Speaker 3: they say into your argument, and then coming up with

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Speaker 3: a consensus.

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Speaker 1: Interesting interestingly enough, Yes, I like you brought that interestingly enough.

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Speaker 1: In the Republic, Socrates student Plato argues for censorship.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, in Plato and a few other of his

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Speaker 3: contemporaries are the only ways we actually know anything about Socrates,

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Speaker 3: because that's true. His life actually wasn't written down a

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Speaker 3: whole bunch by him, At least not a lot was

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Speaker 3: recorded by him in the moment.

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Speaker 2: So did he exist?

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Speaker 1: Story for another day, but it is safe to assume

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Speaker 1: if we first assume they was real, it's also safe

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Speaker 1: to assume he was not the first person to be

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Speaker 1: punished in this way. And boy oh boy, speaking of

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Speaker 1: setting a precedent, the Romans sure did. We'll see how

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Speaker 1: this plays out in their descendant civilizations. Shortly after this.

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Speaker 1: We should also mention censorship was common in ancient China

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Speaker 1: is very old and two twenty one BCE, an entire

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Speaker 1: library was burned down in the Kingdom, and their first

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Speaker 1: official law regarding censorship, surprise they were for it was

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Speaker 1: introduced in three hundred CE.

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Speaker 2: But we mentioned Europe, right, so let's just go right there.

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Speaker 1: Europe has a ton of civilizations descended in some way

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Speaker 1: from Roman culture, and this means it also has a long, laughable,

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Speaker 1: tragic history with censorship.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and first to get hit here is free speech.

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Speaker 3: This is an idea that we hear a lot nowadays.

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Speaker 3: It implies the just the free expression of thoughts. That's

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Speaker 3: all it means, really, But this was a challenge to

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Speaker 3: the pre Christian rulers at the time, and you know,

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Speaker 3: it's it's a funny thing to have free thought and

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Speaker 3: then to express those thoughts to other people and then

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Speaker 3: have a group of like minded people all having free

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Speaker 3: thoughts that don't exactly go along with the church. That's

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Speaker 3: very troublesome, at least to the guardians of at the

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Speaker 3: time Christianity. But it's you know, it becomes much more

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Speaker 3: troublesome when the church itself organizes to a point where

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Speaker 3: there's an official orthodox this is what is the church

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Speaker 3: and nothing.

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Speaker 2: Else, and there's dogmas exactly. Yeah, you're right, Matt.

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Speaker 1: And as more books were written and copied and even

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Speaker 1: more widely disseminated, the ideas that were perceived as subversive

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Speaker 1: and heretical were spread beyond the control of rulers. It

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Speaker 1: didn't matter now if you killed one heretic, if they

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Speaker 1: had written a pamphlet or a book and someone else

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Speaker 1: had copied it, then that person's ideas lived on and

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Speaker 1: they spread or metastasized, as their opponents will probably perceive

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Speaker 1: it across the land.

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Speaker 3: But it's important because at this time, when you say copied,

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Speaker 3: you mean actually written down in a blank paper or

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Speaker 3: a blank parchment, and written down exactly what was written

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Speaker 3: on the other one.

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Speaker 1: Right, And this this was an advantage over something like

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Speaker 1: a subversive oral tradition in terms of storytelling her songs,

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Speaker 1: because if you kill everyone who knows the song, it's fine,

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Speaker 1: it won't get out. But you have to. Books don't

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Speaker 1: die as easily as people. You have to burn them.

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Speaker 3: You have to you have to find them.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: A book can, even even if it won't be in

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Speaker 1: great condition, in the right environment. A book can just

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Speaker 1: sit somewhere for decades and decades. It needs no food,

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Speaker 1: it needs no cycle of sleep and wake. It's just

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Speaker 1: there for someone to pick it up.

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Speaker 3: You can't coerce the book to not say it story anymore.

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Speaker 1: Right, you have to destroy or mutilate it. And as

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Speaker 1: a consequence of this, censorship became increasingly rigid. Punishments became

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Speaker 1: increasingly severe. And then, of course, one of the life

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Speaker 1: last things that the establishment probably wanted to happen happened,

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Speaker 1: and the printing press was invented in Europe in the

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Speaker 1: mid fifteenth century, and this increased the need for censorship.

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Speaker 1: Printing did help, you know what, Maybe I'm being unfair,

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Speaker 1: because printing did help the Catholic mission at the time

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Speaker 1: to spread what it saw as a divine revelation.

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Speaker 3: You can print bibles now but it also.

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Speaker 1: Aided the Protestant Reformation and people like Martin Luther who

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Speaker 1: were considered heretics. So the printed book became this huge

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Speaker 1: religious battle ground, and it began a war that was

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Speaker 1: also fought through the medium of books. They started making

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Speaker 1: books that would communicate censorship.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, like a book of prohibited books, or at

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Speaker 3: least a very long list of prohibited books. There was

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Speaker 3: a pope, a gentleman named Paul the Fourth, who ordered

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Speaker 3: the first index of capital p prohibited books in fifteen

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Speaker 3: fifty nine, and then that an index, like an updated index,

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Speaker 3: was issued again twenty times by different different popes who succeeded,

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Speaker 3: and then finally from fifteen fifty nine all the way

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Speaker 3: until nineteen forty eight, the final prohibited books list was issued.

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Speaker 3: Nineteen forty eight, that's not that long ago.

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Speaker 1: But they kept that thing in practice. It was still

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Speaker 1: on the books for lack of a better phrase, until

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, when it was finally abolished.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's.

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Speaker 3: A long time of prohibiting reading.

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Speaker 1: And the Catholic Church was the first and final judge

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Speaker 1: of which books emerged on this list, right, and books

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Speaker 1: didn't usually get pulled off or forgiven, and the Inquisition

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Speaker 1: helped enforce this ideology by banning and burning books when

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Speaker 1: they were discovered, and in some cases burning the authors

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Speaker 1: along with the books. O. The most famous author that

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church band is, of course Galileo. That was

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Speaker 1: in sixteen thirty.

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Speaker 3: Three, because he was heretically letting people know about, you know,

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Speaker 3: the solar system and the stars.

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Speaker 2: He was going against their God.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So the most famous victim of the Inquisition would be

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Speaker 1: Joan of Arc probably and maybe Thomas Moore. Additionally, the

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Speaker 1: Catholic Church controlled all the universities and all the publications

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Speaker 1: that those universities made. In fifteen forty three, they said, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's it. No book can be printed or sold unless

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Speaker 1: we say it's all right, unless we sign off on it.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: And then a little bit later a guy in France

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Speaker 1: doubled down on that.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he the uh what is he's the King

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Speaker 3: of France, Charles the ninth. He declared that nothing could

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Speaker 3: be printed without the special permission of the king. And

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Speaker 3: then you know, when one ruler that several others their

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Speaker 3: ears perk up and they go, hey, that sounds like

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Speaker 3: a really good idea. So other rulers in Europe were

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Speaker 3: also banning books that were not approved by.

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Speaker 1: Them as soon as they heard about it. Yes, immediately,

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Speaker 1: post has this practice was pretty effective, tremendously effective because

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Speaker 1: also when we consider what it took to operate a

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Speaker 1: printing press, where we're looking at the possession of a

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Speaker 1: lot of capital that the average European simply would not have.

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Speaker 3: You'd have to be a powerful enemy to be going

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Speaker 3: against that list in distributing works at least to an

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Speaker 3: effective amount.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in a world where a lot of people can't

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Speaker 1: afford to eat meat, much less stop the constant grind

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Speaker 1: for survival to learn that there could be at least

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Speaker 1: a different form of governance.

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Speaker 3: And that constant grind of moving this machine forward of

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Speaker 3: civilization does at times require people to live below a

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Speaker 3: poverty line wherever that may lie, just to be workers,

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Speaker 3: to be cogs in that giant machine.

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Speaker 1: I would Yeah, I would say most government systems require

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Speaker 1: the entire the largest amount of the population to be

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Speaker 1: around that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, to just be functional machines.

439
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Speaker 1: Essentially at least of the time. So this stuff is

440
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Speaker 1: working so well, this strategy is working so well, that

441
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Speaker 1: becomes a crucial part in the Grand European scheme to

442
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: conquer what they called the New World, Catholic countries worked

443
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Speaker 1: hand in hand with the religious authorities. Philip the Second

444
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Speaker 1: of Spain reinstated the inquisition in fifteen sixty nine and

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Speaker 1: then franchised it out, made a Peruvian inquisition in fifteen

446
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: seventy the next year. Just a monitor and censor unwelcome

447
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 1: beliefs from the people who actually lived on this continent

448
00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: before the Europeans got there and the dissidents who are

449
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 1: trying to escape the be An inquisition system. Really, a

450
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: lot of it focused on controlling the import of books,

451
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: so they would examine ships and luggage and port they

452
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,560
Speaker 1: would look through libraries and bookstores and printing houses, and

453
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: it was oppressive and sinister. Extended to colonies in the

454
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: Americas as well, But it's still paled in comparison to

455
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: another act of cultural genocide, censorship on a massive scale,

456
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: in the case of the Spanish invaders destroying the literature

457
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,680
Speaker 1: of the Maya people. They literally erased history.

458
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gone. This is what you would call cultural genocide, right.

459
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: A lot of it was, yeah, a lot of was lost,

460
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 1: sort of like the Library of Alexandria.

461
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 3: No, I just had to say. This is one of

462
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,439
Speaker 3: the reasons that Mayan civilization is so fascinating in a

463
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,879
Speaker 3: lot of places within this mysterious universe, conspiratorial world. I

464
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 3: believe the mind civilization so interesting because so much of it,

465
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 3: the actual explanations of what things are, it's been lost.

466
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 1: To history, right, Like I knew about the poulvo Vu,

467
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 1: the cultural story that talks about the mythology and history

468
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,679
Speaker 1: of the Kicha people, but there was a lot of

469
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 1: stuff that I thought I would have encountered before that

470
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: I only learned through oral tradition, like the the story

471
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: of how the religious syncretism occurs. But be that as

472
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: it may, it is true that, for lack of a

473
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: better word, they did erase history, and it sounds like

474
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: we're paying. The Spanish Empire is just a load of

475
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: real pills. But Britain, France, and Germany weren't exactly progressive either.

476
00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: The postal service was invented in France in fourteen sixty

477
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: four and it just like overnight, became this tool of

478
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:08,239
Speaker 1: state sponsored, religiously supported censorship. And then this meant that

479
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: by the eighteenth century, the press in the majority of

480
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 1: Europe was subject to the censorship. In the nineteenth century,

481
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: things looked like they might have changed, or began to change.

482
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: There was an independent press that started to emerge.

483
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, separating itself from the powers that be.

484
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: People were with more and more passionate and articulation demanding

485
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: a free press, meaning one that is not governed by

486
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 1: the state or the church. But this was not a

487
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: global change. Japan had incredibly strict press laws at the time.

488
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: And then if we keep going, of course, the Nazis.

489
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: The Nazis were big fans of books. They found them

490
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: very flammable.

491
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 2: They thought that was neat.

492
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: In the modern age, the USSR and the Eastern Bloc

493
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:04,040
Speaker 1: ran one of the world's most expansive, successful, and contiguous

494
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 1: censorship programs in the twentieth century. It started in what

495
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: October nineteen seventeen.

496
00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, it lasted until the nineteen eighties.

497
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's mind boggling if you think about that.

498
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 1: A lot of us listening to the show today were

499
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: alive when people were getting arrested in the USSR in

500
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: the Eastern Bloc for various things that may seem kind

501
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: of silly in the modern day and speaking modern day,

502
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 1: today we live in a world of endless, cheaply transmitted information.

503
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 2: What does that mean.

504
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 1: It means that it is possible now for anyone with

505
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: a phone and a good Internet connection, almost regardless of

506
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: their language, to download, in a relatively short period of time,

507
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: more written work than our ancestors would have seen in

508
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: their entire lives. You can right now, for example, download

509
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: the entirety of Wikipedia.

510
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: Just look at it.

511
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: You can have it all on your phone and you

512
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: will not need an Internet connection to read it. That's amazing.

513
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 1: And so that means that in the wake of this

514
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: massive technological breakthrough, censorship might be losing its importance or

515
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 1: maybe its influence. Right, there's not a church in charge

516
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: that can shut everything down.

517
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, censorship is gone, doesn't exist anymore. We're

518
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 3: done here. Thanks for this, taking this journey into history

519
00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 3: about censorship with us. Oh wait, nope, nope, that's very

520
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 3: very wrong. Couldn't be wronger, And we'll tell you why

521
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 3: after a quick word from our sponsor.

522
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 2: Here's where it gets crazy.

523
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: While futurist of Yesterdyear often argue that limitless access to

524
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 1: information could result in a more transparent and well informed society,

525
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 1: we're seeing that this is not the case, at least

526
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: not yet in many parts part of the world. In fact,

527
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: censorship is becoming much more common, rather than less common.

528
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: According to the Committee to Protect Journalists, the ten most

529
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:19,920
Speaker 1: heavily censored countries nowadays are Eritrea, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Ethiopia, Azerbaijan, Vietnam, Aaran, China, Myanmar,

530
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: and Cuba. Those are just the top ten worst offenders.

531
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: Some of that is probably going to change, at least

532
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: in the case of Cuba, but that doesn't mean the

533
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 1: things that aren't in the top ten are super great.

534
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: Belarus is positively.

535
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: Dangerous, yis.

536
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 1: But what do we mean when they say heavily censored.

537
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 3: This is just where the laws are extremely extremely strict,

538
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 3: and there are punishments such as harassment and imprisonment and

539
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 3: sometimes even worse for people who go against these laws.

540
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: Right right, like the very recent incident in which Saudi

541
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: Arabia of deducted, tortured and murdered a US resident and

542
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: Washington Post journalist named Sala Kashagi. It was extra judicial killing.

543
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: They're obviously not going to get in a lot of

544
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: serious trouble from it.

545
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:15,920
Speaker 2: From the US.

546
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 3: The crazy thing is it was almost covered up and

547
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 3: then it wasn't. And I don't know what type of

548
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 3: punishment could actually be, you know, laid out for the

549
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 3: people who are responsible for it.

550
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 1: The US government would have to impose consequences for that action.

551
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, but is that gonna happen. Probably not.

552
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: And embassy is technically this I think the soil on

553
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: which like the soil of the country there. So it

554
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 1: really goes down to how and if the US is

555
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: a country that protects its residents and citizens, that's really

556
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: what it goes town onto.

557
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:04,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yet it is so much more complicated.

558
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: And yes it's its own episode, right, But just so

559
00:33:07,760 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: just to you know, the way he died, the official

560
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,640
Speaker 1: explanation from the Saudi Arabian government was that it didn't happen,

561
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 1: and then it did, and then it did happen. But

562
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 1: there was a fistfight and he was that the guy started,

563
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: and that he was killed in this fist fight. The

564
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:29,080
Speaker 1: evidence that Turkish intelligence is providing has there's I believe

565
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: they have audio evidence and forensic evidence that he was

566
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: sawed in half or like he was he was dismembered

567
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: while alive, which is not a fistfight. But we'll see

568
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: what the we'll see what story everybody agrees on pretty soon.

569
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: Right now, everybody except for Saudi Arabia pretty much agrees

570
00:33:54,680 --> 00:34:01,880
Speaker 1: with the with the abduction, torture, murder narrative, especially because

571
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: there was an alleged body double that was sent out later.

572
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 2: The story is ongoing.

573
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: I think the official position of the US Executive Branch

574
00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 1: is that this is quote unquote under investigation. The official

575
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: position of the well the rumored position, the anonymously quoted

576
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: position of the US military and intelligence agencies, is that yes,

577
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: it is true. The guy was tortured, died, being sawed

578
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 1: to death, and then his body was transported in pieces

579
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: and hidden. But officially, according to the Executive Branch, it's

580
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 1: still under investigation. Anyway, it's happening. He was murdered by

581
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: the Saudi Arabian government and by facets of it because

582
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: he was a journalist and they didn't like what he

583
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: was reporting.

584
00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's becoming more and more dangerous, and it's

585
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 3: again it seems like it shouldn't be this way in

586
00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 3: this modern era, with this technology, but it is becoming

587
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 3: more and more dangerous for reporters to go out especially

588
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 3: to practice investigative.

589
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: Journalism, right right, and you and I found this fantastic

590
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:11,840
Speaker 1: piece from guy named George Packer writing for The New Yorker.

591
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 1: He said that censorship and danger to reporters is actually

592
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 1: these events are growing more frequent, and they're growing more dangerous.

593
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 1: We've pulled a really cool quote from here.

594
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,399
Speaker 3: I think in recent years reporting the news has become

595
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 3: an ever more dangerous activity. Between two thousand and two

596
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 3: and twenty twelve, according to the Committee to Protect Journalists,

597
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 3: five hundred and six journalists were killed worldwide, as opposed

598
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 3: to three hundred and ninety in the previous.

599
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,239
Speaker 1: Decade, which is insane. And a guy we mentioned the

600
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 1: Committee to Protect Journalists, right, the executive director of that

601
00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: outfits guy named Joel Simon, author of a book called

602
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 1: The New Censorship Inside the Global Battle for Media Freedom,

603
00:35:56,680 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: and he said the trend nowadays is toward more seecretcy,

604
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 1: more censorship, and harsher laws, rather than less secrecy, less

605
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 1: censorship and less what would you say, punitive laws.

606
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we have another quote from him. Deluged with data,

607
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 3: we are blind to the larger reality. Around the world,

608
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 3: new systems of control are taking hold. They are stifling

609
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 3: the global conversation and impeding the development of policies and

610
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 3: solutions based on an informed understanding of local realities. Repression

611
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 3: and violence against journalists is at record levels, and press

612
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 3: freedom is in decline.

613
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: Yikes, yeah, it's true. It's true.

614
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 1: So there may be a lot of people, a lot

615
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: of us listening now, who think, well, you know, I

616
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: don't really have anything to hide, I don't have anything

617
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: super controversial to say, and most importantly, I'm not an

618
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,879
Speaker 1: investigative journalists, so i don't have these same concerns. We'll

619
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: tell you why this matters. First, we want to tell

620
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: you the four reasons that he believes this rise in

621
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,400
Speaker 1: this new violent era of censorship, or I should say historically,

622
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: this return to this violent era of censorship. The first

623
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:16,680
Speaker 1: is that there's the rise of leaders like he cites

624
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: in his work Vladimir Putin in Russia, recept type Erdogan

625
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: in Turkey, presidents in Venezuela, Ecuador and Bolivia, who use

626
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 1: their power to intimidate journalists and make it nearly impossible

627
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 1: for them to function. He says, they're elected, but they're

628
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 1: acting as dictators, which is why he prefers the term democratators, democratators, democratators.

629
00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 3: Ooh, democratators.

630
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,279
Speaker 1: But to me that just sounds like a potato that

631
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,359
Speaker 1: I've voted for. That's exactly what it is.

632
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 2: Would you eat them? It's the new freedom fry democratators.

633
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 3: You know. I just started Fallout four, and they call

634
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 3: potatoes tats and they're tato I think they call him tators.

635
00:37:56,440 --> 00:38:00,120
Speaker 3: Yeah anyway. Oh and by the way, yes, yes, I

636
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 3: did say Fallout four, not the new Fallout that just

637
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 3: came out. Because I'm always one iteration behind whatever the

638
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 3: popular thing is.

639
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 2: I feel you, man, I'm okay with that. I'm similar.

640
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 3: It was ten bucks. So yeah, anyway. So the second

641
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 3: source of censorship, at least according to Simon, is the

642
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 3: big T terrorism, and he cites the beheading of Daniel

643
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 3: Pearl and Karachi as being basically the beginning of a

644
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 3: trend of turning journalists into very specific, high value targets

645
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 3: for terrorists or for people who practice terrorism. I guess

646
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 3: I don't know how to say that correctly. But also

647
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 3: if you go you just look at the Iraq War.

648
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 3: It's the deadliest in history for journalists. There are a

649
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 3: lot of people on the ground trying to cover the

650
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: war in very dangerous places. And you know, we hear

651
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 3: a lot about the highly targeted droning systems. The other

652
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 3: you know, the dropping of bonds is much more targeted now. Well,

653
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 3: the Iraq War is the deadliest in history. One hundred

654
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 3: and fifty killed journalists, eighty five percent of them were

655
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 3: Iraqi journalists, and most of whom were murdered like murdered,

656
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 3: not just they accidentally got.

657
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: Killed, and their captures were performative. Their captures and executions

658
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,719
Speaker 1: were performative. It became a disturbingly normal part of the

659
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:27,919
Speaker 1: media landscape.

660
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, similar to the Daniel Pearl event.

661
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 1: And then Simon goes on to note that he says

662
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 1: he believes the third reason is the death of foreign

663
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: news desks. So back in the days, in the golden

664
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 1: days of journalism, every large paper of note would have

665
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: something that they would call a foreign news desk. People

666
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: who had the protection of a larger international news organization

667
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:57,839
Speaker 1: and often the implied protection or tacit protection of their

668
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 1: home country would set up an office wherein they reported

669
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 1: on regional news in a foreign country. The problem is

670
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: that with so much of independent journalism going down the

671
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: tank in the past, few years, these places have closed

672
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: and the only way to get news out falls to

673
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: local reporters doing their best, often with no help or

674
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: protection from a foreign government. Actually the only government around

675
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,200
Speaker 1: their own often will want them dead. In countries like Mexico,

676
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 1: the Philippines, Pakistan, local journalists are the target of brutal

677
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 1: campaigns of intimidation and murder by secret service agents, armed groups.

678
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 1: This could be just extremist religious or separatist groups, Cartel's cartels,

679
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: that's another one. And you know, some of these local journalists,

680
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: it's not like they went to school and dedicated their

681
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: lives to be journalists. They might just be on Twitter

682
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:57,080
Speaker 1: trying to survive because their families are being black bagged

683
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: or disappeared.

684
00:40:58,200 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 2: You know.

685
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 1: And the final reason. One of the weirdest ones is

686
00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: the invisible global hand of digital surveillance. Various countries have

687
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 1: gotten closer and closer to perfecting its use. But there

688
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: everyone's getting better all the time. And it's not just

689
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,840
Speaker 1: the boogeyman you hear about in so much Western media.

690
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: It's not just China, it's not just Iran. It's also

691
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 1: the US, It's also it's also the EU, It's Israel,

692
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: it's Japan. It's anyone who can afford it, you know.

693
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, and it's crazy too, because not only do

694
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,839
Speaker 3: we have in this country things like the NSA sure

695
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 3: that they're looking at everything, or at least they're tracking everything,

696
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,439
Speaker 3: keeping notes about it, there is also this this very

697
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 3: real thing called the search bubble, and it's also a

698
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 3: news bubble. And it's just the thing that in which

699
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,520
Speaker 3: the place in which we all find ourselves where we

700
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 3: are almost censoring ourselves.

701
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: And where does this lead us. We've looked at the

702
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 1: origins of censorship, We've seen some of the modern trends. Now,

703
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 1: let's ask ourselves about the future. After a word from

704
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 1: our sponsor. All right, so the badger is out of

705
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: the bag on this one. Humanity's constant, sinister shadow of

706
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,560
Speaker 1: secrecy and censorship is not going away. It is and

707
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 1: I want you to hear the italics here, evolving. We

708
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: talk about the progression of technology all the time. Right now,

709
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,520
Speaker 1: you can tell somebody across the world what's happening to you,

710
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: relatively in real time. As long as everything works, and

711
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: all the pistons or firing in sequence, all them satellites,

712
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 1: all the Internet tubes are not plugged up. The problem

713
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: is that this technology that allows us to communicate is

714
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 1: often created or influenced by the same people who create

715
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: technology to monitor this sort of stuff, censorship technology, and

716
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 1: it only spreads the fuel of these practices. New tech

717
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: is giving governments the ability to more selectively censor online materials.

718
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: This is the stuff they don't want you to know about.

719
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:17,760
Speaker 2: This.

720
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: This is where it gets spooky because we see several

721
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: factors converging to make a perfect storm. The private tech

722
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 1: sector is merging. It's increasingly monopolistic, you know what I mean.

723
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: The giants of the tech industry Alpha, Google its owner, Alphabet, Amazon, Facebook,

724
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:44,760
Speaker 1: so on. Mean that there are fewer hubs of information transmission. Essentially,

725
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,359
Speaker 1: this means there's a smaller group of people at the wheel.

726
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 2: And this is.

727
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,959
Speaker 1: What Lebowski would call not cool man. Yeah, it's problematic, Yeah,

728
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,120
Speaker 1: because it means they're a private company. A private company

729
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,480
Speaker 1: does not have a ton of laws telling it what

730
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:04,920
Speaker 1: it can or cannot show you, what it can or

731
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 1: cannot prevent you from seeing, or what it can and

732
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: cannot do to influence how you interact online. Older media companies,

733
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: it's no secret if you're a longtime listening to the

734
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,719
Speaker 1: show that older media companies like newspapers mainstream television have

735
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,799
Speaker 1: often worked in secret with intelligence agencies to censor some

736
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: stories or completely ignore them, especially in wartime. Especially in wartime, yeah,

737
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: or in times of great public crisis like the JFK assassination,

738
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: or they've been handed talking points and told to just

739
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 1: sort of riff on those.

740
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

741
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: But new media agencies seem much more comfortable with pursuing

742
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: their own enigmatic goals.

743
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, let's look, let's look at him, just

744
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:52,319
Speaker 3: because we kind of have to for.

745
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 2: This, all right, But no shirtless pictures.

746
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:59,040
Speaker 3: Old aj Alex Jones. He's been making the airwaves again,

747
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 3: even since he's not been on them so much. You

748
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 3: don't you don't have to agree with this guy at all.

749
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 3: You don't have to even like him at all. You

750
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 3: don't have to be a fan in any way. But

751
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 3: you look at the fall of Alex Jones as an

752
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 3: example of this. There were some private industry companies who

753
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:21,839
Speaker 3: just decided, not necessarily out of the blue, let's say

754
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 3: there there were circumstances that were building and building, but

755
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 3: either way, a couple of these private industries decided that

756
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 3: he can't play on in their sandbox. They can't play

757
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,600
Speaker 3: on their platforms anymore. He's done, and all of a

758
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 3: sudden he was finished or is mostly finished.

759
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: And that's totally within their right. They are a private company.

760
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 1: They built the sandbox. He they had valid reasons for

761
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: in the in their opinion, for shutting down his access

762
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: to his audience. But it worked. And it's not like

763
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: there was a trial. There was maybe a trial of

764
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,319
Speaker 1: public opinion, you could call it, sure, but it's not

765
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,360
Speaker 1: like he went to Twitter court.

766
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 2: Don't.

767
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:08,040
Speaker 1: Don't, but take the financial motivation. These companies have to

768
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: make you a paying participant. For instance, pain is in

769
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: giving them cash in addition to your personal data which.

770
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 2: They're already using.

771
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: You know, if you have a small business, or you

772
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 1: have news that pertains to something Facebook doesn't want people

773
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: to see, for instance, you would have to make it

774
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: a sponsored post. Right, you have to be incentivized to

775
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 1: pay to play environment and for their part, that works

776
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: because they're not a news agency, they are not ethically

777
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:45,759
Speaker 1: charged to correctly report things. And additionally, this is one

778
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: of more frightening parts. Censorship is becoming increasingly invisible. Forget

779
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: all those old printed out paper documents and fescimile copies

780
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: with the black and white text and the black back

781
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:06,360
Speaker 1: sharpy marker redacting paragraphs and paragraphs. Nowadays, you might just

782
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 1: not see a banded web page, or you might just

783
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:11,640
Speaker 1: go to your kindle one day and a book is vanished,

784
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:15,240
Speaker 1: or you might find that, like the Maya codesies, certain

785
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,320
Speaker 1: parts of digital history are being erased under your nose.

786
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 3: Wikipedia is completely different on this page today for some reason.

787
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,520
Speaker 3: I don't remember what was taken out, but I don't

788
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,520
Speaker 3: know sure. It just looks different and there's nothing showing

789
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 3: up on the history.

790
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:32,319
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there are information wars going on in Wikipedia.

791
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:34,400
Speaker 1: If you ever have the time, go to some topic

792
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 1: you think might be controversial, instead of reading the article,

793
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: click on the talk tab.

794
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you will see these long.

795
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 1: Bitter things oftentimes by especially in geopolitical things, oftentimes by

796
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 1: front groups posing as individuals, which is insane. No, I know,

797
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: just the Middle East alone, yeah.

798
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 3: Crazy.

799
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,800
Speaker 1: In some countries, people only learned that their social media

800
00:47:58,840 --> 00:48:01,880
Speaker 1: activities monitor when they were detained or arrested for a

801
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: political comment or a snarky joke. And we found a

802
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: We found a fascinating map that I'd like to maybe

803
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: share on our website or on our Facebook page.

804
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,680
Speaker 2: Yes, it gets crazy. Did you see that thing?

805
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, so make sure you're on Facebook check it out.

806
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 2: Yep.

807
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 1: A little bit of double think there. So these factors

808
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:27,799
Speaker 1: that we just named, increasing government surveillance and then increasing

809
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,280
Speaker 1: inequality of power distribution and power in the private sector

810
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: coalesced to create something that might have sounded insane just

811
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,240
Speaker 1: a few years ago. Imagine not a world wide Web,

812
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: but a splintered internet world partially world wide webs, three

813
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 1: of them. They're divided into the three spheres, the US, China,

814
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 1: and the European Union.

815
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you look at each of these individually,

816
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:57,760
Speaker 3: you would note probably at least that the US has

817
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 3: they're the big player here. They have the guns because

818
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 3: they arguably and did invent the Internet with arpenet. We've

819
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:08,400
Speaker 3: discussed not that long ago, and a large percent of

820
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 3: the private companies that actually control large swaths of the Internet,

821
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 3: how to access the Internet, how information is shared to

822
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 3: other human beings. We control that here, or at least

823
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:23,720
Speaker 3: individuals and private companies do, and at least for now,

824
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 3: that's how things stand. But things are changing pretty rapidly

825
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 3: in the world when it comes to the powers of

826
00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:37,719
Speaker 3: the Internet. And here's the thing. In this country, I

827
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 3: don't think you can have a blanket statement as in

828
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,719
Speaker 3: these companies are compliant with well, Uncle Sam when he

829
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 3: rolls through and has requests. But we have seen numerous

830
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:52,400
Speaker 3: within the hundreds of cases where there have been companies

831
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 3: who have been compliant with the government coming through and

832
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 3: asking for information. Doesn't mean they're giving. These companies would

833
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 3: give all of the information, but perhaps parts of a

834
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,560
Speaker 3: user or certain posts or things to that nature.

835
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

836
00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 1: And in the US, at least, and arguably in the world,

837
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 1: the great balance between state and corporate powers swinging in

838
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: favor of the corporation overtime, overtime. And I am convinced

839
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,719
Speaker 1: this is true. You can call up my opinion, but

840
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:21,919
Speaker 1: I am convinced it's true.

841
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 3: We've talked about this before. You you've predicted that there

842
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:30,120
Speaker 3: will be a corporation running for the presidency within our lifetime.

843
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 2: Maybe not the presidency of this country, okay, but of

844
00:50:33,680 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 2: the country. Yeah.

845
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,960
Speaker 1: Sure, And then I'm sure there will people who are

846
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure some of us listening now are thinking, well,

847
00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:46,359
Speaker 1: aren't presidents kind of already at least as sponsored as

848
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 1: NASCAR drivers. I mean, shouldn't they have to wear patches?

849
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 1: At least the NASCAR guys are pretty open about it.

850
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: Robin Williams, Man, Robin Williams.

851
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 3: Last time I saw him on tour, I think it

852
00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 3: was the self of self destruction. I think he had

853
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 3: an awesome bit on that. It's like beautiful like imagery

854
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,239
Speaker 3: of just that. Oh all right, but I think he

855
00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:09,480
Speaker 3: stole from somebody else because.

856
00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: Oh no, he did that a lot unfort Oh yeah

857
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 2: he did. I remember we're talking about that off air.

858
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 2: But maybe he didn't do it on purpose exactly.

859
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 3: You gotta gotta give benefit of the doubt. But that

860
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:25,439
Speaker 3: that image, I think is unfortunately salient. It's real. It's

861
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 3: just like the jackets with all the sponsors.

862
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,359
Speaker 1: We have campaigns, systems set up to reinforce that, at

863
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,960
Speaker 1: least again in the US, but maybe it's different in

864
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 1: foreign governments. In twenty ten, Google shut down its operations

865
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 1: in China after they learned that the Chinese government had

866
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,560
Speaker 1: been hacking Gmail accounts of dissidents, surveilling them through the

867
00:51:46,600 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: search engines to find what they liked and censor that.

868
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: If it's a communication hub or to you know, I

869
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 1: guess the euphemism would be permanently censor the dissidents, so

870
00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,880
Speaker 1: they shut down twenty ten. Later this year, we the

871
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: American public learned that Google had been working on a

872
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: new search engine for China.

873
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,800
Speaker 2: It's called Dragonfly. It's not called Chrome.

874
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,879
Speaker 1: The reason it's different from Dragonfly is that it incorporates

875
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: all these surveillance desires of the Chinese government, and Google's

876
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: internal documents don't support what they say publicly about it,

877
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:21,000
Speaker 1: which is a shame.

878
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 3: And there's been outcry. Yeah, there's been a lot of

879
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 3: protesting by employees of Google lately.

880
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:29,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, they're smart kids. They know what's up.

881
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: And this means what we're looking at as all these

882
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:37,280
Speaker 1: factors converge is a new censorship war on the horizon,

883
00:52:37,719 --> 00:52:41,359
Speaker 1: a new evolution in the paradigm of forced silence. And

884
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: while it may start in a corporate boardroom or in

885
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 1: a DC lobbyist lunch meeting, it will expand to reach you.

886
00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,440
Speaker 1: It will expand to reach your television, your news, your laptop,

887
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,799
Speaker 1: your tablet, and your phone. This means that unless you

888
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: go completely off the grid, you are going to be affected.

889
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: It is not it's not a drill. It's not a

890
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 1: hypothetical thing. It is already happening. It is happening to you.

891
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: In fact, you may be interested to know exactly how

892
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: this continues.

893
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:21,839
Speaker 2: So this is sold. So there you have it.

894
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:27,200
Speaker 3: Wow, I think we have to end the show here.

895
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 3: Let's at least let's at least talk about some questions

896
00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:33,879
Speaker 3: that we have. Oh, by the way, before you even

897
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 3: get to questions, they killed Socrates, Yeah for censorship.

898
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, they killed so Creates.

899
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, so creates. That's a callback to Steve Martin, one

900
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:48,120
Speaker 3: of my favorite comedians. I'm just doing that today. I

901
00:53:48,120 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 3: don't know why, because this censorship has been so important.

902
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna go on a mini soapbox here. Censorship

903
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 3: has had such an effect on free thought. And that's

904
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:03,000
Speaker 3: really what it's about. It's about other people wanting you

905
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:06,840
Speaker 3: to think a certain way and not have other thought

906
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,680
Speaker 3: viruses enter your mind. Thank you, Grant Morrison. And it's

907
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 3: it's it's terrifying to think that there are powerful forces

908
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,720
Speaker 3: active at this very moment that want to control your thoughts.

909
00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 3: That freaks me out. And they've been these same not

910
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 3: the same people, but these same mechanisms have been attempting

911
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 3: to control human thought for for thousands of years and

912
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 3: we have to fight against it. I think I think

913
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 3: we do. And the way you fight against it is

914
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 3: just talk, have an open mind, have free thoughts, and

915
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,920
Speaker 3: talk to your fellow human beings around us, and dogs

916
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 3: and cats and other animals that are willing to listen.

917
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,839
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, but that that goes to the question then too,

918
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 1: what is the line what should or should not be censored?

919
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 3: Ah see, then you're getting into some of that morality stuff.

920
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: We're getting into morality stuff. We're also asking ourselves what

921
00:55:06,440 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: things are.

922
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 2: Age appropriate for people? Right?

923
00:55:11,080 --> 00:55:15,120
Speaker 1: What things are necessary for a country to function?

924
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:20,919
Speaker 3: You know, I mean that's the toughest part about this, right, Yeah,

925
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 3: gotta have free thought, but you got to have humans

926
00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 3: that if they're not that nice, or they're not even

927
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 3: let's say, I don't want to say that smart, but

928
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 3: if you've got to be able to have some kind

929
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:38,400
Speaker 3: of control mechanisms for just societal norms, or do you?

930
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 1: And that's where we will leave it today. This is

931
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 1: not the end of the episode. This is the part

932
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 1: where we leave the podcast studio and wait to hear

933
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,000
Speaker 1: from you. We want to hear your responses. You are

934
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 1: the ultimate arbiters of where this goes.

935
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 3: And that's the end of this class episode. If you

936
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:05,400
Speaker 3: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can

937
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 3: get into contact with us in a number of different ways.

938
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 3: One of the best is to give us a call.

939
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:14,680
Speaker 3: Our number is one eight three three STDWYTK. If you

940
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:16,520
Speaker 3: don't want to do that, you can send us a

941
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:17,720
Speaker 3: good old fashioned email.

942
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:22,120
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

943
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

944
00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:29,000
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

945
00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:31,920
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.