WEBVTT - The FTX and BlockFi Deal, and Abortion Misinformation Online 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.640 From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive 0:00:06.400 --> 0:00:10.920 in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:28.480 Emily Ja I met Lolow in San Francisco in for 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.319 Emily Chang. This is Bloomberg Technology coming up in the 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:34.600 next hour. Crypto sector shake up f t X pounder 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.000 Sam Bankman Freed signing an option to buy crypto lender 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.879 block five, an exclusive conversation with SPF and why he 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:47.080 thinks there are synergies between the two businesses. Plus misinformation 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.520 moment one week on from the U. S. Supreme Court 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:54.480 overturning Roe v. Wade, doctors tell Bloomberg potentially deadly abortion 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:59.360 advice is spreading online and Tesla test The ev makers 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:02.800 expected to report quartly production numbers this weekend. A hot 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:05.960 streak of records is on the line as Shanghai shutdowns 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:09.600 and supply chain snags leave Wall Street to cut forecasts. 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.160 Let's continue the week, Let's switch to crypto. Fd X 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:15.160 sign an agreement with block fire today. The deal includes 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:17.440 an option to purchase the crypto lender for as much 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.360 as two hundred and forty million dollars. Sam Bankman Freed, 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:24.360 co founder of FDx, spoke exclusively with Bloomberg Shinnaldi Bassak 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:29.120 about how the deal and the companies will align. H 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:32.039 I think that there are a lot of ways that 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.680 our products can work together and can mesh together in 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:37.960 a way that's sort of better than you know, either 0:01:38.040 --> 0:01:41.000 would be independently. And I will also say that you know, 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:45.480 they've been working really productively with regulators on you know, 0:01:45.680 --> 0:01:51.480 building out regulated yield products and licensed yield products, which 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.560 which you know were it stated about and excited that 0:01:54.600 --> 0:01:57.920 they've been doing it in a regulated way. I think 0:01:57.920 --> 0:01:59.640 that's the healthy way to do it. And I think 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.160 that's to serve them well, um, you know long term, um. 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.160 And it's something that you know worksage work with as well. 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:09.480 You know you told political that f TX is looking 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.399 for opportunities to bail out, you know, places where customers 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:15.320 would otherwise be underwater. But are you worried here about 0:02:15.320 --> 0:02:18.440 moral hazard at all that bailing out a company may 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:22.520 not actually be what's best for the industry at large. 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.040 It's a good question, and you know, and and guessing 0:02:26.040 --> 0:02:28.680 what you're getting at there is like does that bail 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:31.320 out a company that really should have failed? And and 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:35.040 teacher is the wrong lesson to that company. Um. And 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:37.200 I think what I would say, there's two things. First 0:02:37.200 --> 0:02:40.239 of all, I'm way more excited to bail out customers 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:43.640 than shareholders, right. And so the focus of this is 0:02:43.680 --> 0:02:48.239 not how do we deliver as much shareholder value do 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:52.519 troubled assets as possible? Right, It's how do we protect customers? 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.600 And I think those imply pretty different things. Um uh. 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.160 So that that's that's one thing that will say. And 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:01.720 I think that one of them is way more important 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:03.400 for the ecosystem and the other is the one that 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:07.560 has the biggest moral hazard. Um. The other thing is 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:12.360 that um uh, is that you know, we are trying 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:16.960 to find who were the responsible players who were building 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:18.959 out you know, a good business you know, how to 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:24.040 sustainable model and you know would use short term liquidity 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:26.800 um and and and and that that could help protect 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:32.920 customer funds fundamentally built you know, a a a real 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:37.440 valuable business that I think, um, you know, had something 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:40.840 real to offer to customers rather than you know, which 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:46.440 companies honestly should never have existed probably and um and 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:48.920 you know as of today, you know, maybe we should 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:53.000 just let let them sort of uh you know, diet 0:03:53.080 --> 0:03:58.160 quiet death joining me. Now is Bloomberg shallybas act for 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:00.600 more and I mean sly what strikes me this is 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:05.000 a guy who who's just strengthening his grip on this industry, right, 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:06.960 talk us about, talk to us about I guess the 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.360 importance of this deal in the landscape. Yeah, it's it 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:13.000 is a really interesting deal because remember there are other 0:04:13.120 --> 0:04:15.400 firms that have paused withdrawals. A lot of people talking 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:18.440 about how Black five was one that, with the help 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:20.440 of sam BANKM and Freedom f TX, has been able 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:22.440 to make it through and be there for their clients 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:25.200 even in the midst of these really tumultuous times. I 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:28.280 want to point out also what's happening with Voyager, because 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.800 they are suspending certain operations and you do you they 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.919 have the withdrawal issue as well. And remember another sam 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:39.640 Bankman Free entity had lended them credit line as well, 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:42.560 So that question of moral hazard is a real one. 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:45.359 Who will make it through and who won't. It's interesting 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:47.320 on block Fire as well, Like if I slept through 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:49.359 the last year, I thought this was a three billion 0:04:49.400 --> 0:04:52.840 dollar company. This seems to value them at a much 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:56.280 lower evaluation. Yeah, absolutely, And you know, you think about 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:58.359 it when from three billions to potentially one billion, and 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:01.160 now you have them much low or four million dollars 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.080 with the credit line, as well as that money that 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:07.279 you had been talking about here two million dollars with 0:05:07.400 --> 0:05:10.800 that option to purchase, and you think about it. And 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.080 when we spoke to Sam, he really said opportunistic buying 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.960 valuations were really a big reason here. But he also 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.240 hinted that really some firms will just simply not get 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.160 back to their former glory. Yeah, I think on the 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:27.119 Bloomberg Tamino, I'm seeing this guy's name over and over again. 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.279 What did he have to say about M and A. 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:31.239 In fact, why don't we just take a listen, because 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.840 you asked in directly about some recent reports on interesting 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:39.839 robin hood. Would we do a large acquisition if it 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.240 did make sense and if all the parties were aligned 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.840 on it, you know we could in theory. Um, you know, 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.640 we we have you know, a few billion on our 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:50.400 balance sheet right now. We are profitable. Um, you know, 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:54.479 we are able to further capitalize if we need. Tom 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.760 I mean no name check, but takeaway, yeah, I mean 0:05:58.800 --> 0:06:00.680 the idea that they could buy something. He said, we 0:06:00.680 --> 0:06:03.880 could buy something for billions of dollars, not thirty billion dollars, 0:06:03.880 --> 0:06:07.080 but billions of dollars is certainly possible. Here we talked 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:10.040 about by versus build because f t X has traditionally 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.640 built before. Of course, you know robin Hood fast growth 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:17.200 company with a lot of employees under their employee base 0:06:17.279 --> 0:06:20.800 and f t X runs really really lean ed and 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.200 so does that really fit together at the end of 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:25.440 the day, he has a lot of ambitions, remember a 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:28.799 firm like robin Hood. He also talked about potentially distressed 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:32.080 crypto minors. But again it's got to be a strategic 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:33.560 fit at the end of the day when you take 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:37.400 a look at what's happening between this potential robin Hood wanderlust, 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:41.680 the block FI option to purchase maybe crypto miners. The 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:43.360 question at the end of the day is who does 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:46.120 Sam Bankman Freed want to be uh And it's got 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.200 to be more than JP Morgan when you look at 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.159 a company that is coming out of this crypto winter 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:55.440 merging trade FI and defy and looking to the future 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:58.039 for for what this new market structure could be under 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:02.159 a new regulatory regime. Right bloom Motion Alie Bassett, my 0:07:02.200 --> 0:07:04.039 good mate, thank you. We'll see you later in the 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:06.800 show and Crypto will also be on the minds of those. 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:09.039 Next week in some valley little road trip for us, 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.600 Bloomberg will be there, starting to lie sick for the 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.480 number of great guests, including so far's Anthony no To 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.440 twenty three and me c O and Wijki, Event Brights, 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.600 Kevin Harts, and many others. You don't want to miss it. 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:30.960 Today marks one week since the U. S. Supreme Court 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:34.600 overturned Row v. Wade, which allowed women to access an 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:38.080 abortion if they needed one. In one week's time, medical 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:40.760 professionals have told Bloomberg that they've seen an uptick in 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:45.040 the number of social media posts promoting various herbs, tonics, 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:49.480 and other dangerous substances and not viable substitutes for abortion. 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.240 For more and all of this, including social media's role 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.760 in the conversation on abortion, I'm joined by Bloomberg's Alex 0:07:55.760 --> 0:08:00.320 Brinker along with David Kirkpatrick, founder of Techonomy. Ali gonna 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.800 start with you, what have we learned from doctors? What 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:06.400 is it that they're seeing and where are they seeing it? Yeah, 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.440 and these doctors are are kind of sounding the alarm 0:08:08.600 --> 0:08:11.280 um a lot earlier, maybe because they are now used 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.840 to this pattern. We have a a health issue. We 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.360 saw it with COVID, we saw it with baby formula, 0:08:17.800 --> 0:08:20.040 and we have social media a place where people go 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.120 to find the latest hack. The problem is, um, we're 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.960 seeing some of these hacks, Um, some of these at 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:29.160 home solutions start to bleed into really serious health issues 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:33.280 like lack of abortion care for women. So already in 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:37.200 less than a week, we have seen at home tonics, herbs, 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:41.480 things that doctors Bloomberg talked to said are dangerous, potentially fatal. 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.840 We've seen these posts and content pop up across TikTok, 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:50.120 across Twitter, across Facebook and Instagram. So it's basically everywhere 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.200 if you know where to look, or if you just 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:55.040 happen to be passively scrolling through your feed and have 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:59.280 some of this, um what doctors would call misinformation pop 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.120 up in your social media. Well, I get what you mean. 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:05.080 Right when you're scrolling through Instagram, even when you're on Twitter, 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:08.240 any social media platform, you come across something that doesn't 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:11.160 seem to be of any substance. It's it's kind of 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:14.080 packaged in a lighthearted way. David, how many times have 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:17.320 we've had this conversation about a number of topics are 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:21.360 you surprised that the platforms weren't sort of more proactive 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:25.600 in thinking about this kind of information and how it's 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:30.760 being shared. That is an understatement, and as Alex points out, 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.800 I mean, we all unfortunately have gotten used to this 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.920 pattern pretty much whenever it comes to any kind of 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:43.400 misinformation because, for for several reasons, social media generally and 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:48.000 met US companies in particular, UM have designed their systems 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:50.280 in a way that make it very hard for them 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:55.079 to detect and remediate misinformation of any type. And then separately, 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.559 they really have a disincentive to do so because they 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:03.000 get revenue from eyeballs and attention and also from ads, 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.200 many of which shouldn't be there in the first place. 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:09.640 For example, you know, Meta allows prescription drug ads to 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.560 go to anyone above eighteen in the United States. They 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:14.200 don't even have to do that. They could have said 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:17.640 a much higher limit for that. And you know, prescription 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.960 drug ads are only consumer directed in the United States 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.920 and New Zealand of all developed countries. So you know, 0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.800 we have a lot of problems, Alex. When Bloomberg was 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:31.440 speaking to medical professionals, they raised an issue, which is 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.959 that you know, it's often easier to seek information or 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:37.560 advice online than it is to book an appointment to 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.280 go and see your practitioner or whatever. Can you explain 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:44.640 the concerns that doctors had with that respect, of course, 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:46.199 and I can break it into a couple of groups. 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.120 Let's say you are a an individual in a state 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.679 that still has access to abortion. It might take seven 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:54.240 weeks to get into see your primary care doctor. But 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.000 if you're somebody who is seeking an abortion in the 0:10:57.080 --> 0:11:00.800 state where it is suddenly not available, you don't your options. 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:03.280 You don't know where to look, but you're used to, 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.520 you know, getting your advice from everything firm how to 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.640 style your outfit, to you know what the healthiest meal 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.160 is you can put on your dinner table. You're gonna 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:15.959 turn to social media. It's there. It's passive and these 0:11:16.040 --> 0:11:19.360 this information is kind of being packaged in this um 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:23.880 entertainment meets advice, UM, kind of passively going through your 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:27.160 eyeballs into your brain in a way that feels um 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:29.360 much with it feels like it has a lot more 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:33.040 levity than the serious of this information. So um. You know, 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.920 even if you're somebody who still has access and you 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:39.600 see a quick fix for something that is a really 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:43.000 serious health issue. You know, folks are used to getting 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.400 this information in this way right now, I think, so 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.720 I want to stick with you. Move to another story. 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:53.559 Tik Tik TikTok confirming that Chinese nationals will have some 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:57.679 access to US user data. Can you explain what the 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:00.760 latest is? I know this is the story you've been covering. Yeah, 0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:04.160 absolutely so. TikTok responded in a letter today to UM 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:08.439 nine senators who had basically asked TikTok a lot of 0:12:08.559 --> 0:12:10.560 questions that we are starting to hear a lot in 0:12:10.600 --> 0:12:14.840 regards to the company who has access to US users data? 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:18.360 Do any China employees have access to US users data? 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:21.599 What about the Chinese government? And hey, what about the algorithm? 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:24.680 Where does that fall? So there was a big report 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:26.920 from BuzzFeed a couple of weeks ago. Senator sent a 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.000 letter to them, and TikTok CEO came back today with 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:36.000 the response basically clarifying and confirming that yes, some employees 0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.120 in China do have access to publicly available data for 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:43.440 TikTok users. This includes things like your videos, comments. But 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:47.719 he's also saying the company is developing something called Project Texas. 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.120 Basically this is their solution that they're working with the 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:54.240 US government to court and off US users data, but 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:58.840 only specific US users data, um the the identifiers, the names, 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:01.600 the addresses, things that or what we can expect. So 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.640 they're basically coming back saying, hey, this is where we stand. Look, 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.640 this letter came through today. There are folks in the 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:11.360 US government who are already coming back saying this is 0:13:11.400 --> 0:13:14.719 not enough. I can guarantee you. As we start to 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:18.040 end closer to things like the mid terms, and questions 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.800 around the veracity of information and is their influence from 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:24.920 China and US voters start to sneak into uh the 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.800 into the ether here, these questions will continue to get 0:13:27.800 --> 0:13:32.760 louder from US officials. David, your reaction to that, please, Well. 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.960 While I seldom agree with anything, Marsha Blackburn says, I 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.880 have to say that he was quoted by Alex in 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:42.520 her story today saying that pretty much, if you use TikTok, 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:44.480 you should assume your data is in the hands of 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.720 the Chinese government. And unfortunately, that is what a lot 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:50.200 of US observers have recognized for a long time. The 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:54.320 fact that TikTok's management is directly confirming that today in effect, 0:13:55.160 --> 0:13:58.120 is what is really news here. So you know, it 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:01.360 amazes me that people aren't We're concerned about this, and 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.360 this is an area where I think these Republican congress 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:08.520 people and Republican FCC members are really rightly focusing on 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:11.240 a real issue. David, I want to bring you some 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.520 news just crossing the Bloomberg terminal, Google saying that it's 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.480 going to begin deleting location history and its systems that 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:22.560 it identifies as being personal information. It gives the example 0:14:23.000 --> 0:14:26.480 of certain medical facilities, for example, the change dudes come 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.040 into effect in the coming weeks. Facilities could include counseling 0:14:30.120 --> 0:14:35.280 centers or domestic violence shelters, abortion clinics, fertility centers. Seems 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:37.960 to be linked to, you know, search and maps and 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.280 when one might be seeking a destination. What's your sense 0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:45.200 of how Alphabet and Google handling data and privacy at 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:47.800 this time. Well, I think that's very good news, and 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.520 I'm really glad you told us that. I think Google 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.680 is handling data and privacy better than it used to. 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:57.440 And I think it's feeling a lot of pressure from 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.040 Apple in particular, because Apple is so rigid about this 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:05.000 and so principled about privacy. So I think it's great 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:08.160 to see Alphabet and Google moving more firmly in the 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:11.880 direction of by default trying to protect user data. That's 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:16.120 really welcome. David, very quickly, give twenty seconds, give me 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:18.680 your big tech outlook right now. What's the one thing 0:15:18.680 --> 0:15:23.840 you're watching? Oh my gosh, the the exaggeration of the 0:15:23.880 --> 0:15:26.200 metaverse actually is the thing that I find the most 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:30.040 kind of satisfying. I think there is absurd over promising 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.400 going on right now about where the kind of consumer 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.080 Internet is going in the near term. There's no way 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.120 it's going to be metaversity in anytime soon. So I 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.520 find that amusing. There's plenty of other things going on. 0:15:41.560 --> 0:15:44.720 I mean, obviously the stocks are not great opportunities for 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.000 the short term because they got so valued, so highly valued, 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:53.000 I couldn't resist. Sorry. Technology Teconomy founded David Kopatrick and 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:56.240 my mate bloombergs Alex Brinka. Good to see you. Thanks 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.880 to you both. And just coming up on Tuesday, we'll 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:01.760 have FCC commission a Brending car on the show, where 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:06.440 we'll ask him about TikTok. Coming up, Spotify's bet on 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:10.360 podcasting rather than music streaming. Has it paid off? We'll 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:28.880 discuss this is Bloomberg. Let's take a look at Spotify, 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.520 the music streaming platform. Stock is down almost six this year, 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.000 even after spotify buys move into podcasts made it the 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:41.240 world's biggest audio service. The idea podcasting offers Spotify exclusive material, 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.280 forcing other tech giants to carry its service, and creating 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:47.240 a revenue stream music labels can't touch. So why is 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:49.600 it in trouble? Let's break it all down with Bloomberg's 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:51.560 Lucas Shure, who wrote about this in quite a lot 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.240 of detail and a fantastic Business Week piece. The strategy working, 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.800 you know, I'd say it's a mixed bag right now. 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:01.240 It's it's working in the sun that more and more 0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.560 people are what are listening to podcasts on Spotify? About 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:09.320 nine million of Spotify's users listen to podcasts. The revenue 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.679 that it generates from podcasting is growing at a at 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.639 a big clip. But Spotify has spent a lot of money, 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.160 more than a billion dollars so far. And you spend 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:19.919 all that money and podcasting makes up about seven percent 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:22.080 of listening and two percent of revenue. And they've done 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:24.159 a lot of expensive deals with big name talent that 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:26.359 hasn't gone anywhere, and so there are a lot of 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:29.120 people inside and outside the company who are questioning where 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.480 some of that money is going. At the heart of 0:17:31.520 --> 0:17:34.240 any good story is is a name a person, And 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:37.159 for Spotify, that's dull on ostrof Right, What's what's her 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.760 role be and how successful has she been? So she's 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:44.280 the chief content officer, she also oversees the advertising business. 0:17:44.400 --> 0:17:47.160 A long time TV executive who didn't have a lot 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.960 of background in music or in podcasting before she joined Spotify. 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.080 You know, she's the a in a lot of ways, 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.200 the architect of the strategy. There's some people who work 0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:57.320 for her who were very instrumental in it as well, 0:17:57.640 --> 0:18:00.160 but she in particular has been a big drive. Are 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.080 these deals with big name talent? Uh? You know, the 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.320 the Obama is an higher ground, the Royals, some filmmakers, 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.199 some social media celebrities, Kim Kardashian and there have not 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.240 been a lot of big shows to come out of 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:15.040 those deals. The big names are important, right and thinking 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.119 about Joe Rogan, shout out, Draymond Green show have been 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:20.040 a big one for me over the last few months. 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.639 The Obamas, we'll slippa forward. Are they just going to 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:24.960 have to sign up more names to keep this going. 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.160 You know, a lot of it is going to come 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:30.800 down to how big the advertising business can get and 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.199 how much Spotify can start to replicate. Uh, you know, 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.720 a service like YouTube, those big name shows are really 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:40.600 great for getting people in and for marketing. But the 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.720 core and of that Spotify business is supposed to be 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.560 the mass of podcasts. You know, they host four million 0:18:46.680 --> 0:18:49.000 podcast give or take right now right, they said that 0:18:49.040 --> 0:18:51.760 by I think they want to have like fifty million 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.240 creators on the platform. That is a lot of people. 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.000 And they figure if they have that many people posting, 0:18:57.359 --> 0:18:59.639 they will kind of hoover up all the demand and 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.840 they'll be able to sell ads against all these all 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.360 these users, and their ad business is growing, but it's 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:08.400 still only about of the overall high Alright, bloom Bog's 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:11.400 Lucas Shore out in l A all Things Spotify, Thank 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:22.280 you very much. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Ed 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:26.240 Lovelow in San Francisco. Tesla ends the week in the green, 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:28.760 but it's been slipping, making it one of the worst 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.520 weeks of the year. This is the company is still 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:35.800 dealing with delivery issues with its Shanghai factory remaining in lockdown. 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.160 For more on all of this, I'm joined by Bloomberg's 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:42.360 Shawn o'caine out in Austin, Sean. The expectation we get 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:46.840 quarterly delivery figures this weekend what you're looking for? I mean, 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.240 the consensus seems to be in the high two thousands, 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.040 maybe around two and sixty thou or so. Which if 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:54.199 that's the case, we're talking about a quarter that is 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:59.159 about ut or so delivery short of around where the 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:02.119 last two quarters, as were an elon Musk at the 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:04.600 end of que one had said that they expected basically 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:08.160 a flat quarter to quarter change or or no change. 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:10.480 So if there is a drop, then we can see 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:13.919 pretty much just how much we should attribute to the 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:16.800 Shanghai lockdowns and the trouble that they've had over at 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.600 that plan. So so what is the latest and what 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:21.760 test is dealing with? Right? We haven't heard from me 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:23.800 a little mosque for a little while. He's not sent 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:29.280 any tweets. But in Shanghai things have been tough. I mean, 0:20:29.680 --> 0:20:31.919 their story is still about growth as it kind of 0:20:31.920 --> 0:20:35.080 always has been. I mean they're set up to open 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:37.760 or have already sort of opened new factories both here 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:41.600 in Austin and in Berlin. Uh Musk recently made in 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.080 comments in an interview at the end of May. Uh 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:46.800 maybe the claim that both of these new factories are 0:20:46.840 --> 0:20:49.520 money furnaces, and really what he means by that is, 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.080 you know, he said they're losing billions of dollars right now. 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:54.200 The point he was trying to make there is that 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.800 as they scale up production and try to get from 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:00.639 a hundred units a week or a hous and vehicles 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.320 a week, they're going to be spending far more money 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:06.440 on building out as factories than they are making any 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:09.560 money back from them. And you know, I think a 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:12.160 lot of people looked at that is possibly negative. The 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:14.239 thing that keep in mind with that is that, like, 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:15.639 that's just the nature of it, and it's not going 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:18.800 to slow Tesla down. Tesla's actually still working on expanding, 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:22.080 especially the factory here in Texas, even though it doesn't 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:24.040 have production up to the level that he wants it 0:21:24.080 --> 0:21:26.159 at yet. Well, let's talk about it. For those that 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:28.800 don't know, Sean is out in Austin. He's awesome. If 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:31.440 you don't follow him on Twitter at s O Kane one, 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:35.119 I work with him every single day towards me about Austin, Like, 0:21:35.200 --> 0:21:38.000 what is the grand master plan for Austin? What how 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:43.280 is this Tesla factory change that city? I mean, right now, 0:21:43.320 --> 0:21:45.720 it's still feels very much like the times that I 0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:49.639 went to uh outside Reno when the Giga factory was 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:52.440 still in its first few years there, the original one 0:21:52.800 --> 0:21:55.320 where you know, certainly you see a lot of Tesla 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.720 cars here more and more every day, but it is 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:00.080 now a topic of conversation. It's the kind of thing 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:02.520 that it's an easy conversation to strike up with people 0:22:02.520 --> 0:22:04.639 who have lived here and worked here. Everybody has a 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.280 different opinion on it um, but it is it is 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:09.080 something that is sort of you know, it is a 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:11.720 very large facility, but it's also something that looms sort 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:14.119 of metaphorically in people's minds now that it's up and 0:22:14.200 --> 0:22:17.159