1 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: From the heart of where innovation, money and power collive 2 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 3 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: Emily Ja I met Lolow in San Francisco in for 4 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,319 Speaker 1: Emily Chang. This is Bloomberg Technology coming up in the 5 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: next hour. Crypto sector shake up f t X pounder 6 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: Sam Bankman Freed signing an option to buy crypto lender 7 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: block five, an exclusive conversation with SPF and why he 8 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: thinks there are synergies between the two businesses. Plus misinformation 9 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,520 Speaker 1: moment one week on from the U. S. Supreme Court 10 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: overturning Roe v. Wade, doctors tell Bloomberg potentially deadly abortion 11 00:00:54,520 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: advice is spreading online and Tesla test The ev makers 12 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: expected to report quartly production numbers this weekend. A hot 13 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 1: streak of records is on the line as Shanghai shutdowns 14 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: and supply chain snags leave Wall Street to cut forecasts. 15 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 1: Let's continue the week, Let's switch to crypto. Fd X 16 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: sign an agreement with block fire today. The deal includes 17 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: an option to purchase the crypto lender for as much 18 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: as two hundred and forty million dollars. Sam Bankman Freed, 19 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: co founder of FDx, spoke exclusively with Bloomberg Shinnaldi Bassak 20 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 1: about how the deal and the companies will align. H 21 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: I think that there are a lot of ways that 22 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: our products can work together and can mesh together in 23 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: a way that's sort of better than you know, either 24 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: would be independently. And I will also say that you know, 25 00:01:41,000 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: they've been working really productively with regulators on you know, 26 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: building out regulated yield products and licensed yield products, which 27 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: which you know were it stated about and excited that 28 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: they've been doing it in a regulated way. I think 29 00:01:57,920 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: that's the healthy way to do it. And I think 30 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: that's to serve them well, um, you know long term, um. 31 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: And it's something that you know worksage work with as well. 32 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: You know you told political that f TX is looking 33 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:12,399 Speaker 1: for opportunities to bail out, you know, places where customers 34 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: would otherwise be underwater. But are you worried here about 35 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: moral hazard at all that bailing out a company may 36 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: not actually be what's best for the industry at large. 37 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,040 Speaker 1: It's a good question, and you know, and and guessing 38 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 1: what you're getting at there is like does that bail 39 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: out a company that really should have failed? And and 40 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: teacher is the wrong lesson to that company. Um. And 41 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: I think what I would say, there's two things. First 42 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 1: of all, I'm way more excited to bail out customers 43 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: than shareholders, right. And so the focus of this is 44 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:48,239 Speaker 1: not how do we deliver as much shareholder value do 45 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,519 Speaker 1: troubled assets as possible? Right, It's how do we protect customers? 46 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: And I think those imply pretty different things. Um uh. 47 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,160 Speaker 1: So that that's that's one thing that will say. And 48 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: I think that one of them is way more important 49 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: for the ecosystem and the other is the one that 50 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: has the biggest moral hazard. Um. The other thing is 51 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:12,360 Speaker 1: that um uh, is that you know, we are trying 52 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: to find who were the responsible players who were building 53 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: out you know, a good business you know, how to 54 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: sustainable model and you know would use short term liquidity 55 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 1: um and and and and that that could help protect 56 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: customer funds fundamentally built you know, a a a real 57 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: valuable business that I think, um, you know, had something 58 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: real to offer to customers rather than you know, which 59 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:46,440 Speaker 1: companies honestly should never have existed probably and um and 60 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: you know as of today, you know, maybe we should 61 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 1: just let let them sort of uh you know, diet 62 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: quiet death joining me. Now is Bloomberg shallybas act for 63 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: more and I mean sly what strikes me this is 64 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:05,000 Speaker 1: a guy who who's just strengthening his grip on this industry, right, 65 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: talk us about, talk to us about I guess the 66 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: importance of this deal in the landscape. Yeah, it's it 67 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: is a really interesting deal because remember there are other 68 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: firms that have paused withdrawals. A lot of people talking 69 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: about how Black five was one that, with the help 70 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: of sam BANKM and Freedom f TX, has been able 71 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: to make it through and be there for their clients 72 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: even in the midst of these really tumultuous times. I 73 00:04:25,279 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: want to point out also what's happening with Voyager, because 74 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 1: they are suspending certain operations and you do you they 75 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:34,919 Speaker 1: have the withdrawal issue as well. And remember another sam 76 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: Bankman Free entity had lended them credit line as well, 77 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: So that question of moral hazard is a real one. 78 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: Who will make it through and who won't. It's interesting 79 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 1: on block Fire as well, Like if I slept through 80 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 1: the last year, I thought this was a three billion 81 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,840 Speaker 1: dollar company. This seems to value them at a much 82 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: lower evaluation. Yeah, absolutely, And you know, you think about 83 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,359 Speaker 1: it when from three billions to potentially one billion, and 84 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: now you have them much low or four million dollars 85 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: with the credit line, as well as that money that 86 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: you had been talking about here two million dollars with 87 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: that option to purchase, and you think about it. And 88 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 1: when we spoke to Sam, he really said opportunistic buying 89 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: valuations were really a big reason here. But he also 90 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: hinted that really some firms will just simply not get 91 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,160 Speaker 1: back to their former glory. Yeah, I think on the 92 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Tamino, I'm seeing this guy's name over and over again. 93 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: What did he have to say about M and A. 94 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,239 Speaker 1: In fact, why don't we just take a listen, because 95 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 1: you asked in directly about some recent reports on interesting 96 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: robin hood. Would we do a large acquisition if it 97 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: did make sense and if all the parties were aligned 98 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 1: on it, you know we could in theory. Um, you know, 99 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: we we have you know, a few billion on our 100 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: balance sheet right now. We are profitable. Um, you know, 101 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 1: we are able to further capitalize if we need. Tom 102 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: I mean no name check, but takeaway, yeah, I mean 103 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: the idea that they could buy something. He said, we 104 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: could buy something for billions of dollars, not thirty billion dollars, 105 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: but billions of dollars is certainly possible. Here we talked 106 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: about by versus build because f t X has traditionally 107 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 1: built before. Of course, you know robin Hood fast growth 108 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: company with a lot of employees under their employee base 109 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,800 Speaker 1: and f t X runs really really lean ed and 110 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: so does that really fit together at the end of 111 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 1: the day, he has a lot of ambitions, remember a 112 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,799 Speaker 1: firm like robin Hood. He also talked about potentially distressed 113 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: crypto minors. But again it's got to be a strategic 114 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: fit at the end of the day when you take 115 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: a look at what's happening between this potential robin Hood wanderlust, 116 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: the block FI option to purchase maybe crypto miners. The 117 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: question at the end of the day is who does 118 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: Sam Bankman Freed want to be uh And it's got 119 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: to be more than JP Morgan when you look at 120 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: a company that is coming out of this crypto winter 121 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: merging trade FI and defy and looking to the future 122 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 1: for for what this new market structure could be under 123 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:02,159 Speaker 1: a new regulatory regime. Right bloom Motion Alie Bassett, my 124 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: good mate, thank you. We'll see you later in the 125 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: show and Crypto will also be on the minds of those. 126 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,039 Speaker 1: Next week in some valley little road trip for us, 127 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: Bloomberg will be there, starting to lie sick for the 128 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: number of great guests, including so far's Anthony no To 129 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: twenty three and me c O and Wijki, Event Brights, 130 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: Kevin Harts, and many others. You don't want to miss it. 131 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: Today marks one week since the U. S. Supreme Court 132 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: overturned Row v. Wade, which allowed women to access an 133 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: abortion if they needed one. In one week's time, medical 134 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: professionals have told Bloomberg that they've seen an uptick in 135 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: the number of social media posts promoting various herbs, tonics, 136 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: and other dangerous substances and not viable substitutes for abortion. 137 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: For more and all of this, including social media's role 138 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: in the conversation on abortion, I'm joined by Bloomberg's Alex 139 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: Brinker along with David Kirkpatrick, founder of Techonomy. Ali gonna 140 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: start with you, what have we learned from doctors? What 141 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: is it that they're seeing and where are they seeing it? Yeah, 142 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: and these doctors are are kind of sounding the alarm 143 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: um a lot earlier, maybe because they are now used 144 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: to this pattern. We have a a health issue. We 145 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: saw it with COVID, we saw it with baby formula, 146 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: and we have social media a place where people go 147 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 1: to find the latest hack. The problem is, um, we're 148 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: seeing some of these hacks, Um, some of these at 149 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: home solutions start to bleed into really serious health issues 150 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: like lack of abortion care for women. So already in 151 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: less than a week, we have seen at home tonics, herbs, 152 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: things that doctors Bloomberg talked to said are dangerous, potentially fatal. 153 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: We've seen these posts and content pop up across TikTok, 154 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 1: across Twitter, across Facebook and Instagram. So it's basically everywhere 155 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 1: if you know where to look, or if you just 156 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: happen to be passively scrolling through your feed and have 157 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: some of this, um what doctors would call misinformation pop 158 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: up in your social media. Well, I get what you mean. 159 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: Right when you're scrolling through Instagram, even when you're on Twitter, 160 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: any social media platform, you come across something that doesn't 161 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: seem to be of any substance. It's it's kind of 162 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,080 Speaker 1: packaged in a lighthearted way. David, how many times have 163 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: we've had this conversation about a number of topics are 164 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: you surprised that the platforms weren't sort of more proactive 165 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: in thinking about this kind of information and how it's 166 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: being shared. That is an understatement, and as Alex points out, 167 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: I mean, we all unfortunately have gotten used to this 168 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: pattern pretty much whenever it comes to any kind of 169 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 1: misinformation because, for for several reasons, social media generally and 170 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: met US companies in particular, UM have designed their systems 171 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: in a way that make it very hard for them 172 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 1: to detect and remediate misinformation of any type. And then separately, 173 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,559 Speaker 1: they really have a disincentive to do so because they 174 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: get revenue from eyeballs and attention and also from ads, 175 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: many of which shouldn't be there in the first place. 176 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: For example, you know, Meta allows prescription drug ads to 177 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 1: go to anyone above eighteen in the United States. They 178 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: don't even have to do that. They could have said 179 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: a much higher limit for that. And you know, prescription 180 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: drug ads are only consumer directed in the United States 181 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: and New Zealand of all developed countries. So you know, 182 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 1: we have a lot of problems, Alex. When Bloomberg was 183 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: speaking to medical professionals, they raised an issue, which is 184 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 1: that you know, it's often easier to seek information or 185 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,560 Speaker 1: advice online than it is to book an appointment to 186 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: go and see your practitioner or whatever. Can you explain 187 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 1: the concerns that doctors had with that respect, of course, 188 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,199 Speaker 1: and I can break it into a couple of groups. 189 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: Let's say you are a an individual in a state 190 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: that still has access to abortion. It might take seven 191 00:10:51,679 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: weeks to get into see your primary care doctor. But 192 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: if you're somebody who is seeking an abortion in the 193 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: state where it is suddenly not available, you don't your options. 194 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 1: You don't know where to look, but you're used to, 195 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: you know, getting your advice from everything firm how to 196 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,640 Speaker 1: style your outfit, to you know what the healthiest meal 197 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: is you can put on your dinner table. You're gonna 198 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 1: turn to social media. It's there. It's passive and these 199 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 1: this information is kind of being packaged in this um 200 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: entertainment meets advice, UM, kind of passively going through your 201 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: eyeballs into your brain in a way that feels um 202 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: much with it feels like it has a lot more 203 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:33,040 Speaker 1: levity than the serious of this information. So um. You know, 204 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: even if you're somebody who still has access and you 205 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 1: see a quick fix for something that is a really 206 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: serious health issue. You know, folks are used to getting 207 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 1: this information in this way right now, I think, so 208 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: I want to stick with you. Move to another story. 209 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: Tik Tik TikTok confirming that Chinese nationals will have some 210 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,679 Speaker 1: access to US user data. Can you explain what the 211 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: latest is? I know this is the story you've been covering. Yeah, 212 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: absolutely so. TikTok responded in a letter today to UM 213 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 1: nine senators who had basically asked TikTok a lot of 214 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: questions that we are starting to hear a lot in 215 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: regards to the company who has access to US users data? 216 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: Do any China employees have access to US users data? 217 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,599 Speaker 1: What about the Chinese government? And hey, what about the algorithm? 218 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,680 Speaker 1: Where does that fall? So there was a big report 219 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: from BuzzFeed a couple of weeks ago. Senator sent a 220 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 1: letter to them, and TikTok CEO came back today with 221 00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: the response basically clarifying and confirming that yes, some employees 222 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: in China do have access to publicly available data for 223 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: TikTok users. This includes things like your videos, comments. But 224 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 1: he's also saying the company is developing something called Project Texas. 225 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: Basically this is their solution that they're working with the 226 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:54,240 Speaker 1: US government to court and off US users data, but 227 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 1: only specific US users data, um the the identifiers, the names, 228 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: the addresses, things that or what we can expect. So 229 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 1: they're basically coming back saying, hey, this is where we stand. Look, 230 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: this letter came through today. There are folks in the 231 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: US government who are already coming back saying this is 232 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,719 Speaker 1: not enough. I can guarantee you. As we start to 233 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: end closer to things like the mid terms, and questions 234 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: around the veracity of information and is their influence from 235 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: China and US voters start to sneak into uh the 236 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: into the ether here, these questions will continue to get 237 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: louder from US officials. David, your reaction to that, please, Well. 238 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: While I seldom agree with anything, Marsha Blackburn says, I 239 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: have to say that he was quoted by Alex in 240 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: her story today saying that pretty much, if you use TikTok, 241 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: you should assume your data is in the hands of 242 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 1: the Chinese government. And unfortunately, that is what a lot 243 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: of US observers have recognized for a long time. The 244 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:54,320 Speaker 1: fact that TikTok's management is directly confirming that today in effect, 245 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: is what is really news here. So you know, it 246 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: amazes me that people aren't We're concerned about this, and 247 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: this is an area where I think these Republican congress 248 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: people and Republican FCC members are really rightly focusing on 249 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: a real issue. David, I want to bring you some 250 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: news just crossing the Bloomberg terminal, Google saying that it's 251 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: going to begin deleting location history and its systems that 252 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: it identifies as being personal information. It gives the example 253 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: of certain medical facilities, for example, the change dudes come 254 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: into effect in the coming weeks. Facilities could include counseling 255 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: centers or domestic violence shelters, abortion clinics, fertility centers. Seems 256 00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: to be linked to, you know, search and maps and 257 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: when one might be seeking a destination. What's your sense 258 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: of how Alphabet and Google handling data and privacy at 259 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 1: this time. Well, I think that's very good news, and 260 00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: I'm really glad you told us that. I think Google 261 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: is handling data and privacy better than it used to. 262 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: And I think it's feeling a lot of pressure from 263 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: Apple in particular, because Apple is so rigid about this 264 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: and so principled about privacy. So I think it's great 265 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:08,160 Speaker 1: to see Alphabet and Google moving more firmly in the 266 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: direction of by default trying to protect user data. That's 267 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: really welcome. David, very quickly, give twenty seconds, give me 268 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: your big tech outlook right now. What's the one thing 269 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:23,840 Speaker 1: you're watching? Oh my gosh, the the exaggeration of the 270 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: metaverse actually is the thing that I find the most 271 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: kind of satisfying. I think there is absurd over promising 272 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: going on right now about where the kind of consumer 273 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: Internet is going in the near term. There's no way 274 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: it's going to be metaversity in anytime soon. So I 275 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: find that amusing. There's plenty of other things going on. 276 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the stocks are not great opportunities for 277 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: the short term because they got so valued, so highly valued, 278 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:53,000 Speaker 1: I couldn't resist. Sorry. Technology Teconomy founded David Kopatrick and 279 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: my mate bloombergs Alex Brinka. Good to see you. Thanks 280 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 1: to you both. And just coming up on Tuesday, we'll 281 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,760 Speaker 1: have FCC commission a Brending car on the show, where 282 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: we'll ask him about TikTok. Coming up, Spotify's bet on 283 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: podcasting rather than music streaming. Has it paid off? We'll 284 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: discuss this is Bloomberg. Let's take a look at Spotify, 285 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 1: the music streaming platform. Stock is down almost six this year, 286 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: even after spotify buys move into podcasts made it the 287 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: world's biggest audio service. The idea podcasting offers Spotify exclusive material, 288 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: forcing other tech giants to carry its service, and creating 289 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 1: a revenue stream music labels can't touch. So why is 290 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:49,600 Speaker 1: it in trouble? Let's break it all down with Bloomberg's 291 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: Lucas Shure, who wrote about this in quite a lot 292 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: of detail and a fantastic Business Week piece. The strategy working, 293 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, I'd say it's a mixed bag right now. 294 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: It's it's working in the sun that more and more 295 00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: people are what are listening to podcasts on Spotify? About 296 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: nine million of Spotify's users listen to podcasts. The revenue 297 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 1: that it generates from podcasting is growing at a at 298 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: a big clip. But Spotify has spent a lot of money, 299 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: more than a billion dollars so far. And you spend 300 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: all that money and podcasting makes up about seven percent 301 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,080 Speaker 1: of listening and two percent of revenue. And they've done 302 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 1: a lot of expensive deals with big name talent that 303 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: hasn't gone anywhere, and so there are a lot of 304 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 1: people inside and outside the company who are questioning where 305 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:31,480 Speaker 1: some of that money is going. At the heart of 306 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: any good story is is a name a person, And 307 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: for Spotify, that's dull on ostrof Right, What's what's her 308 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: role be and how successful has she been? So she's 309 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: the chief content officer, she also oversees the advertising business. 310 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: A long time TV executive who didn't have a lot 311 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: of background in music or in podcasting before she joined Spotify. 312 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 1: You know, she's the a in a lot of ways, 313 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: the architect of the strategy. There's some people who work 314 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: for her who were very instrumental in it as well, 315 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,160 Speaker 1: but she in particular has been a big drive. Are 316 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: these deals with big name talent? Uh? You know, the 317 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: the Obama is an higher ground, the Royals, some filmmakers, 318 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 1: some social media celebrities, Kim Kardashian and there have not 319 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: been a lot of big shows to come out of 320 00:18:11,280 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: those deals. The big names are important, right and thinking 321 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: about Joe Rogan, shout out, Draymond Green show have been 322 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: a big one for me over the last few months. 323 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 1: The Obamas, we'll slippa forward. Are they just going to 324 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: have to sign up more names to keep this going. 325 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 1: You know, a lot of it is going to come 326 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: down to how big the advertising business can get and 327 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,199 Speaker 1: how much Spotify can start to replicate. Uh, you know, 328 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: a service like YouTube, those big name shows are really 329 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,600 Speaker 1: great for getting people in and for marketing. But the 330 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: core and of that Spotify business is supposed to be 331 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 1: the mass of podcasts. You know, they host four million 332 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: podcast give or take right now right, they said that 333 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: by I think they want to have like fifty million 334 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: creators on the platform. That is a lot of people. 335 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,000 Speaker 1: And they figure if they have that many people posting, 336 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: they will kind of hoover up all the demand and 337 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: they'll be able to sell ads against all these all 338 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 1: these users, and their ad business is growing, but it's 339 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:08,400 Speaker 1: still only about of the overall high Alright, bloom Bog's 340 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: Lucas Shore out in l A all Things Spotify, Thank 341 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: you very much. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology. I'm Ed 342 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: Lovelow in San Francisco. Tesla ends the week in the green, 343 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: but it's been slipping, making it one of the worst 344 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:31,520 Speaker 1: weeks of the year. This is the company is still 345 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 1: dealing with delivery issues with its Shanghai factory remaining in lockdown. 346 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,160 Speaker 1: For more on all of this, I'm joined by Bloomberg's 347 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,360 Speaker 1: Shawn o'caine out in Austin, Sean. The expectation we get 348 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: quarterly delivery figures this weekend what you're looking for? I mean, 349 00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: the consensus seems to be in the high two thousands, 350 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: maybe around two and sixty thou or so. Which if 351 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 1: that's the case, we're talking about a quarter that is 352 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:59,159 Speaker 1: about ut or so delivery short of around where the 353 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: last two quarters, as were an elon Musk at the 354 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: end of que one had said that they expected basically 355 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,160 Speaker 1: a flat quarter to quarter change or or no change. 356 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: So if there is a drop, then we can see 357 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,919 Speaker 1: pretty much just how much we should attribute to the 358 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: Shanghai lockdowns and the trouble that they've had over at 359 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: that plan. So so what is the latest and what 360 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: test is dealing with? Right? We haven't heard from me 361 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: a little mosque for a little while. He's not sent 362 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: any tweets. But in Shanghai things have been tough. I mean, 363 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:31,919 Speaker 1: their story is still about growth as it kind of 364 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: always has been. I mean they're set up to open 365 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: or have already sort of opened new factories both here 366 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,600 Speaker 1: in Austin and in Berlin. Uh Musk recently made in 367 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: comments in an interview at the end of May. Uh 368 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: maybe the claim that both of these new factories are 369 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: money furnaces, and really what he means by that is, 370 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: you know, he said they're losing billions of dollars right now. 371 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,200 Speaker 1: The point he was trying to make there is that 372 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: as they scale up production and try to get from 373 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: a hundred units a week or a hous and vehicles 374 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: a week, they're going to be spending far more money 375 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: on building out as factories than they are making any 376 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 1: money back from them. And you know, I think a 377 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:12,160 Speaker 1: lot of people looked at that is possibly negative. The 378 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,239 Speaker 1: thing that keep in mind with that is that, like, 379 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: that's just the nature of it, and it's not going 380 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: to slow Tesla down. Tesla's actually still working on expanding, 381 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: especially the factory here in Texas, even though it doesn't 382 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,040 Speaker 1: have production up to the level that he wants it 383 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: at yet. Well, let's talk about it. For those that 384 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: don't know, Sean is out in Austin. He's awesome. If 385 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,440 Speaker 1: you don't follow him on Twitter at s O Kane one, 386 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:35,119 Speaker 1: I work with him every single day towards me about Austin, Like, 387 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: what is the grand master plan for Austin? What how 388 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: is this Tesla factory change that city? I mean, right now, 389 00:21:43,320 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: it's still feels very much like the times that I 390 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: went to uh outside Reno when the Giga factory was 391 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: still in its first few years there, the original one 392 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: where you know, certainly you see a lot of Tesla 393 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: cars here more and more every day, but it is 394 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: now a topic of conversation. It's the kind of thing 395 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 1: that it's an easy conversation to strike up with people 396 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: who have lived here and worked here. Everybody has a 397 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: different opinion on it um, but it is it is 398 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: something that is sort of you know, it is a 399 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: very large facility, but it's also something that looms sort 400 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: of metaphorically in people's minds now that it's up and 401 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,159 Speaker 1: running even right sort of in a in a small volume. 402 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: So it's it's something that is changing what is going 403 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:22,159 Speaker 1: on here. I think the bigger question about like what 404 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: Elon Must actually wants to do in Austin still is 405 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: an answered. Although we've seen some reporting, including from our 406 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: own Sarah McBride at Bloomberg News, about all the different 407 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: things that he needs to do with other companies like 408 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: the boring company here. I mean, he has a lot 409 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: more plans that he's really publicly led on too for 410 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:43,720 Speaker 1: this city, right Bloomberg Shawn O'Kaine, awesome, Thank you very much. 411 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: Let's go from public market pain to private markets gain. 412 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: It's been a wild week in the world of venture capital. 413 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,679 Speaker 1: Despite recession fears volatility, new funds are popping me up 414 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 1: around the world. One report, so KOA Capital is trying 415 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,879 Speaker 1: to raise two point two five billion from investors for 416 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: two new funds. Canada, CIBC Innovation Banking launched a new 417 00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: one point five billion dollar venture fund, and around the 418 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:09,439 Speaker 1: world money seems to be flowing to earlier stage startups, 419 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: but deal counts down. That's a lot's take on board 420 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,719 Speaker 1: joining us to discuss. Kathie gaw, partner of Sapphire Ventures. 421 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: I mean, the world is a bit crazy right now. 422 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: But you, as a venture capitalist, how are you seeing things? Well? 423 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:23,960 Speaker 1: First of all, it's so great to be back here, 424 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: ed um, wow, it's still I first right, just they 425 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: made it, We made it. You know. The past six 426 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: months have been the worst six months, as you reported 427 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 1: on earlier in the stock market for over fifty years. 428 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: There's a lot of turmoil in the markets. And I 429 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: always say this that uncertainty is a foe of the markets. 430 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,959 Speaker 1: From my seat in the private markets, we haven't fully 431 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: seen the impact of the effect on the public markets 432 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,239 Speaker 1: flow into the private markets. That's a good point. We've 433 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: got this chart that looks at deal count, basically the 434 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: number of rounds or venture backed startups bringing in fundraising, 435 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 1: and between the first quarter in second quarter, there is 436 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: this dip, you know, we see it on our screens, 437 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: particularly pronounced in early stage, but there still seems to 438 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: be money flowing to early stage. I mean, where are 439 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: you looking right now in the world. Is now a 440 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: great time to fund young startups? Or are you looking 441 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: at later stages. That's a very complicated situation for me personally. 442 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: I focus on the Series B all the way up 443 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: to pre I p O stage. When we think about 444 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,360 Speaker 1: what's been happening in the markets, all this volatility, everything 445 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:32,040 Speaker 1: from you know, record high interest rates to rising inflation 446 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: and even geopolitical risk. We saw that impact in the 447 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: public markets. The next group of assets to be affected 448 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: are the very late stage private markets companies like Karna 449 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,399 Speaker 1: and instat cart and then it's kind of my stage. 450 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,200 Speaker 1: My stage is a little bit frozen right now, because, 451 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,160 Speaker 1: on one hand, a lot of companies raise a lot 452 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 1: of money in they might have thirty months of runway. 453 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: They don't need to absolutely raise now. On the other hand, 454 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: investors don't know where the valuation is going to set 455 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: at all quite just yet. I would to bring you 456 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: up on that point. Down rounds. You know, we've seen 457 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,360 Speaker 1: a few. What's your read on that it's not necessarily 458 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: a bad thing. But what's your take? It's definitely not 459 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,159 Speaker 1: necessarily a bad thing. I think it's inevitable given some 460 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: of the run ups that we saw in and it 461 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: might feel really bad, you know, with all the headlines 462 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: we're seeing around layoffs and everything like that. But this 463 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,640 Speaker 1: is an opportunity for companies to re evaluate what they're 464 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: actually worth and prepare themselves for future rounds that they 465 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: may have to raise. I want to ask you about opportunities, 466 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: but we just showed some of your portfolio companies on 467 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 1: the screen. What are you telling your founders, you know, 468 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: what advice are you giving to them if there is 469 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: a recession looming about how they manage their businesses? About 470 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: their cash. You're telling them, you know, in any times 471 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: with uncertainty, there's so many things they can't control, But 472 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: what can they do to gain ball control? Right to 473 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: control their own destiny. So the top two things are 474 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: Number one, cash is king in a recession. Keep a 475 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,960 Speaker 1: very very sharp eye in cash and a related matter, 476 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: really focus on efficiency, take a hard look at your 477 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,320 Speaker 1: go to market and overall burn efficiency and make changes 478 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: if you have to. And also it's an opportunity to 479 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: play offensive. You know, we always talk about some of 480 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: these great companies. Are you always come in with a 481 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: smile on your face, You're you're optimistic about opportunity. Where 482 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 1: do you see the opportunity? Oh, I'm very very optimistic. 483 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 1: I mean at a high level, we're very very bullish 484 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: on general cloud based staff. I think the transformation to 485 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,280 Speaker 1: cloud is still in this early endings. And there are 486 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,720 Speaker 1: many pockets that I am focused on in my firm, 487 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: sapphires focus on that I think are going to be 488 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: doing well regardless of any market. You know, things like 489 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: cyber security right always going to be a hot topic. 490 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: Things like future of work, things like healthcare and how 491 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: technology can transform healthcare. With the greatest respect cloud sas 492 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 1: cybersecrazy that these things always come across in a lot 493 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: of abstract you know, the president in everyday lives. How 494 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: do you deter I mean, what's a real company, one 495 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:06,120 Speaker 1: that's product is going to thrive with those things being 496 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: important to Corporate America the world. Yeah. We look at 497 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: two things very very closely UM. The first one being 498 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,360 Speaker 1: how do customers actually use a product and do they 499 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: love the product? This is where being a later stage 500 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: investor is a little bit easier than a super early 501 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: stage investor because the companies I'm looking at they have 502 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 1: real customers. So we spend a lot of time talking 503 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 1: to the customers and understanding, hey, is this solution really 504 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: solving an important pain point for you? And importantly are 505 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: you willing to pay for this solution. The second thing 506 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: we look at is a proxy of how strong the 507 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,159 Speaker 1: product market fit is, and that's how efficiently can you 508 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:45,720 Speaker 1: sell your product very quickly? Are you optimistic about the 509 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 1: second half of UM. I think it's going to take 510 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: some time for the changes to flow through the market. 511 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: I think we're in for some hard times ahead. I 512 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: don't know if it's going to be one quarter, two quarters, 513 00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 1: three quarters, or more. But again my message to everyone 514 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: is this is an opportunity to look inwards, you know, 515 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: get your house and shape and be ready for the future. 516 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: Sapphire Ventures, Cafe Gow, thank you, such a pleasure to 517 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: have you here. Coming up crypto lawsuits from deceitful marketing 518 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: to pump and dump schemes. Why there's an uptick in 519 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 1: retail investor lawsuits and what the app called Do Not 520 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: Pay wants to do about it? More on that. Next, 521 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: this is gloom Bug. How do you take on a 522 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 1: crypto lawsuit? People are dying to know, even VC investor 523 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: Channa Pella Avatia reference one Bloomberg article on the battle 524 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: of an investor with finance. Is it tried to sue 525 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: the crypto platform and take a listen, lost one point 526 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: two million dollars who wanted to file a lawsuit and 527 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: they have every right to do that. UM couldn't even 528 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: find the corporate entity to to actually file. This lawsuit 529 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: against crypto has generated more than two hundred class action 530 00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 1: lawsuits and private litigation cases up more than fifty since 531 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: the start of according to law firm Morrison Cohen, which 532 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: attracks the activity. Our next guest, Joshua a Browder, CEO 533 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: of Do Not Pay the Legal services chatbot that wants 534 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 1: to help the average crypto investor get their money back, 535 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 1: along with our crypto Contributortionalie Bassett back with us, Joshua, 536 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 1: thank you for having me answer that question. How do 537 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: you tackle a lawsuit like that? So everyone talks about 538 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: class actions, but in all of these big companies, like 539 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: Celsius's terms of service, they say that you can't actually 540 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: sue them in federal court, but there's a loophole which 541 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: says that you can sue them in small claims court. 542 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: And so what my company does is we automate small 543 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: claims court lawsuits. And so it's almost fitting that the 544 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: answer to decentralized crypto fraud is thousands of small claims 545 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: decentralized lawsuits. So, Joshua been excited to speak to you 546 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 1: because you know that I went to law school and 547 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 1: it was never cut out to be an attorney. Just 548 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: bring me back to basics. He is laughing in New 549 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,000 Speaker 1: York and shes bring me back to basics. What is 550 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: a chat bought lawyer? So do not pay his messioners 551 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,320 Speaker 1: to empower the consumer to fight back. We've been operating 552 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 1: for about six years taking on big companies like Equifax 553 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 1: and Comcast. When United doesn't refund your money, consumers come 554 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 1: to us. And recently we decided why not help consumers 555 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 1: get justice against these crypto companies that are freezing people's 556 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 1: money like Celsius. Well, why have you chosen to move 557 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,479 Speaker 1: over to crypto companies? Obviously there are a lot of 558 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: them right now, and if many of them that are 559 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: freezing withdrawals at this point in time, and if you're 560 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: a crypto customer, that is part of that pain. It's 561 00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: not like you have a lot of money left over 562 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: to spend on a lawsuit like this. So why have 563 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 1: you moved over from other forced arbitration clauses into into 564 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: this world? So All Claims Court is an amazing tool. 565 00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 1: It can get consumers between ten and twenty five thousand 566 00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: dollars and it's a very easy process. A judge will 567 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: often side with a consumer in their local jurisdiction just 568 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 1: because they feel bad for them. And so if Celsius 569 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,720 Speaker 1: doesn't show up to all these small claims court lawsuits 570 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: across the country, the consumer wins by default. And so 571 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: because it's such an easy process, it only takes about 572 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,720 Speaker 1: a month or two, and it allows the consumer to 573 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: get justice before these companies declare bankruptcy, which is looking 574 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,680 Speaker 1: very likely. What's the likelihood of really recouping funds here 575 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: and how costly do you think it could be for 576 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:42,560 Speaker 1: a from like Celsius. So Celsius has to send someone 577 00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: in every single case, even if it's for ten thousand 578 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: dollars sount So Do Not Pay has initiated over one thousand, 579 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,080 Speaker 1: five hundred lawsuits against Celsius in different parts of the country, 580 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: even in rural towns. They have to stand a lawyer 581 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 1: just to defend themselves, and in my opinion, I don't 582 00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: think they will and the consumers will when so even 583 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: an average of ten tho dollars a lawsuit, these these 584 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: small claims lawsuits are going to cost them millions um. 585 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: But these are small retail investors who are getting their 586 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 1: money back, and once a judgment has gotten in small 587 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,240 Speaker 1: claims court, you're actually at the front of the line 588 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: in the bankruptcy proceeding. So it's very good that small 589 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: retail investors can be ahead of the institutional investors if 590 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: things really go bad with these big platforms. Joshua, can 591 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: we talk about Twitter Yes, I spend a lot of 592 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: time on Twitter. You spend quite a lot of time 593 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: on Twitter. Yes, I'm addicted to Twitter. I'm not gonna 594 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: go as far as to say I'm addicted. But there's 595 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: a lot of tweeting about cryptocurrencies from very well known people, 596 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: Elon Musk probably being the easiest example, through two accounts 597 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: with very few users. But markets seem to move on tweets. Yes, 598 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: what's your take on that. I think everything you say 599 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 1: on Twitter is has to be legal and everything and 600 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: the same standards as everything you say in real life. 601 00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: People think that just because it's an online platform they 602 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: aren't held to the same standard it, but they really are, 603 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,640 Speaker 1: and we're seeing this in crypto fraud. We've used tweets 604 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: in the past in small claims law lawsuits, and it's 605 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 1: the same with moving markets and sec violations and things 606 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 1: like that. Well, that's a fascinating question too, about tweets 607 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:19,280 Speaker 1: and where it falls in regard to customers getting bunny back, 608 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: any any distortions in the markets. There's a lot of 609 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: questions about even some of the advertising some of these 610 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: crypto firms had done prior to pausing withdrawals. I mean, 611 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: what type of um evidence does that create for the 612 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,560 Speaker 1: retail investor in terms of being encouraged to put their 613 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: money into something that was not going to work out later, Well, 614 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,120 Speaker 1: if it seems too good to be true, it probably is. 615 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: And a lot of these platforms one advertising the risks 616 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: of getting interest rate properly. They were saying things like 617 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 1: your money is safe and secure, you can get it 618 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: back very quickly. And even though they buried in the 619 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: times of service, they have all of these special clauses 620 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: that's really not clear and consent based on like FTC guidelines, 621 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: and so if you're not clear with the consumer, you 622 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,400 Speaker 1: will face all of this litigation and regulatory problems if 623 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: things go badly. We're seeing a pretty ugly chart on 624 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: the screen Bitcoin year to date one year, it's down 625 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,839 Speaker 1: a lot. That's been a part of the story. I'm 626 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,480 Speaker 1: going to use Shinnali's favorite word, regulation, you reckon that 627 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: we'll see some more regulation in this space. I think 628 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: we will. I think so many people will lose so 629 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 1: much money that everyone is going to write to their 630 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 1: congressmen do not pay. Also, does that to get as 631 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: much regulation as possible be more specifical there, what exactly 632 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:40,320 Speaker 1: is do not pay asking for for regulation here, especially 633 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: because you know there is a sense that the SEC 634 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,279 Speaker 1: might come down harder on the enforcement side than it 635 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 1: will on the actual regulatory side in creating new rules. 636 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 1: So all of these crypto companies generally have money transmitter licenses, 637 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: which is a very low standard of regulation. What they're 638 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: actually doing is something called being a broker ealer. And 639 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: so at the very least, we would want them to 640 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 1: all be licensed as broker dealers versus money transmitters. And 641 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,880 Speaker 1: I think that would lead to more disclosures and consumers 642 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: feeling like they're better protected. And there are lots of 643 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: legitimate companies like coin base who would probably go in 644 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: that direction. But last legitimate players like Celsius that are 645 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: speculating with funds um might not survive all right. Joshua Browder, 646 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,640 Speaker 1: CEO Do Not Pay, and Bloomberg's Shinnali Bassek thank you 647 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: to you both. More news in the app store ecosystem, 648 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: Google reached an agreement with US developers that will let 649 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: consumers subscribe to services outside the company's play store. This 650 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 1: after Apple made a similar deal last year with small developers. 651 00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 1: Bloomberg's scoop Dogg German joins us for more on this mark. 652 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:01,200 Speaker 1: How does this impact Google the for having me? Well, 653 00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 1: it doesn't really impact Google that much, right, So if 654 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,560 Speaker 1: they're gonna start allowing, just like Apple has allowed starting recently, 655 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,840 Speaker 1: is they're gonna allow if you're a third party developer 656 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: to point users to the web essentially to subscribe to 657 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 1: your services. Right. I still think a lot of people 658 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: that are gonna want to subscribe to services within the 659 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: actual apps themselves, which then they still have to use 660 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,320 Speaker 1: the Google Play processing engine, which then we'll give Google 661 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,960 Speaker 1: a percentage there, right, So I think most consumers are 662 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: not going to want to go to the web to 663 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,279 Speaker 1: sign for applications, So I don't really think it's going 664 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 1: to hurt Google long term at all. Obviously, a ninety 665 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 1: million dollar payout is probably an hour's worth the revenue 666 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 1: for Google, so that's not really gonna hurt them elsewhere. 667 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: They also decided that they're going to keep that fifteen 668 00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,799 Speaker 1: percent revenue share feed long term. That's for developers that 669 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: make up to two million dollars per year on the 670 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 1: Google Play Store. They never really said they would get 671 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: rid of it, but at least they now have in 672 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 1: writing as part of the settlement. They're not going to 673 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: get rid of it, so you're not going to see 674 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: that fifteen percent go up to act to any point soon. 675 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,759 Speaker 1: So that is an interesting little, you know, piece of 676 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: the pie right there. Right, It's that's the kind of 677 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,440 Speaker 1: business side. This is about consumer choice, right drawl the 678 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 1: parallel with Apple. What has the difference been since Apple 679 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:19,439 Speaker 1: made that same move last year? Yes, so right now, 680 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: Apple and Google in terms of their app store distribution, 681 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: in their policies, they're nearly at an identical point. The 682 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,399 Speaker 1: only differences is that Apple's fiftcent program where they charge 683 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: a developer off the costs instead of that's only up 684 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: to a million dollars in sales, Googles is going to 685 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:37,920 Speaker 1: be up to two million dollars of sale. So it's 686 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: about doubles. That's really you know, the loan hold out 687 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: big difference. You're seeing app removal transparency reports from both companies. Now, 688 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 1: you're seeing the ability from both companies now to allow 689 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,919 Speaker 1: developers to advertise lower pricing from outside the Google Play 690 00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: Store and the Apple App Store. You're seeing this idea 691 00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: where they can go to the web to sign up 692 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: for subscription services. You see that happening on both platforms, 693 00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 1: so they're really unequal footing right now in terms of 694 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: consumer behavior, do we see any material fact like is 695 00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:10,440 Speaker 1: it made consumers go out and and make different choices 696 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: and they would have otherwise had to make when they 697 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:15,759 Speaker 1: were forced to stay within those platforms? You know, I 698 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: think consumers only really care if they're going to be 699 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:22,160 Speaker 1: paying more money or less money. Right if Netflix is 700 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: charging ten dollars a month if you sign up through 701 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 1: their app, or if they're charging ten dollars a month 702 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: if you go to sign up through their website. If 703 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,120 Speaker 1: I'm just a consumer, I'm going to just sign them 704 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:32,400 Speaker 1: through the app because it's much easier. Right, Apple and 705 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,920 Speaker 1: Google already have my billing information on hand. I don't 706 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: need to go and make an account and sign up 707 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: online and put my credit card information again. Right, So 708 00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: from a consumer choice perspective, I don't really think that's, 709 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: you know, changing much. I think developers are need to 710 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: adjust their pricing and tell consumers, hey, if you go 711 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: to the web and in put your credit card information 712 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: through the web and you go through that process, we're 713 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: going to charge you seven dollars a month instead of 714 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: ten dollars a month. But if pricing is equal on 715 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 1: both platforms, I think any you know, normal consumer is 716 00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: going to go right through the absolutely Google play story. 717 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,919 Speaker 1: All right, Bloomberg's Mark German out in l A thank 718 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,759 Speaker 1: you that doesn't for this edition of Bloomberg Technology Rules 719 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,720 Speaker 1: Wall Street Week is up next from my colleague David Western. 720 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: Next week Bloomberg and me will be in live in 721 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 1: some Valley, Idaho. Media moguls, billionaires, and some of the 722 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:22,000 Speaker 1: biggest names from tech, media and business will converge on 723 00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,439 Speaker 1: July six. Will bring you live reports from the ground 724 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:27,400 Speaker 1: and interviews with some of the n t S attendees, 725 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: with Sophi c O nt NO to twenty three c 726 00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: O and with Jicky event Brights, Kevin Harts, and many 727 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: others you definitely don't want to miss it. Will be 728 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: there Tuesday onwards. This is Bloomberg