1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Oh, fellow ridiculous historians, is that you. We're so glad 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: to see you. Joy, Yeah, Joy joining us for a 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: classic episode. Look, names are tough. We talked I can't 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: remember which show it was, but we talked about how 5 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: tough it is to name a car. We know it's 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: tough to name a pet. 7 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 2: And what is that? What is a toreg? 8 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: He's still on it. So look, if you are investigating 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: like we did back in twenty eighteen, the names of dogs, 10 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: you will see the name Fido show up. And Fido 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: is not a name for people. 12 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 2: Sure Isn't you see it in branding for dog food 13 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,240 Speaker 2: and all kinds of stuff dating back to this is 14 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 2: the beginning of advertising. I've been watching or rewatching, actually 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 2: a lot of classic Looney Tunes cartoons recently. Pro tip 16 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 2: for any Max subscribers out there. Every single one of 17 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 2: them is on there, back from the earliest ones like 18 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 2: the thirties, and Fido is often what they call dogs 19 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: in the show you know, bugs bunny Less, You're like here, Fido. 20 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 2: It's just kind of like a stand down, like coke 21 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 2: is for soda or xerox is for a photocop. Sure 22 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: Google for Internet search do we also have the do 23 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 2: we have the World War Two propaganda on Max? I'm 24 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: not sure. I haven't been through all of it enough 25 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 2: to know of what they've stripped, but I'm not one 26 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: hundred percent sure. I wouldn't be surprised. I know that 27 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 2: Disney has removed a lot of the problematic Disney cartoons 28 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 2: from you know, Disney Plus. 29 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: And we know how Fido became a default name for 30 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: dogs here in the West. Spoiler it goes back to 31 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 1: an amateur wrestler that we often bring up on the show. 32 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: Good reach out on that guy. Thanks Abe Lincoln. Let's 33 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: jump right in. 34 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:24,240 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the 35 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: show Ridiculous Historians, and thanks for tuning in. Whether you 36 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: have multiple PhDs and various specific aspects of the story 37 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: of human civilization, or whether you consider yourself an armchair 38 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:41,680 Speaker 1: history enthusiast, one thing's for sure. You've probably probably met 39 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: a dog. 40 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:47,679 Speaker 2: Probably I've met at least two dogs that was the 41 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: same dog, though you think so. 42 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: I think it was the same dog. 43 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 2: Why do you think that? 44 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 1: Because you showed me the pictures and I think it's 45 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: the angle. 46 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's weird. I'm more of a cat person. But 47 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 2: now I've met multiple dogs in truth, and I've also 48 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 2: heard of Abraham Lincoln. 49 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: Yes, and today's story is about the confluence of these 50 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 1: two concepts. When we think about dogs, we always think 51 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: about strange dog names too, writ And there's one thing 52 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: that always baffled me when I was a kid, when 53 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 1: I traveled abroad, I didn't understand that dogs who grow 54 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: up in non English speaking countries don't speak English. 55 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: That's right. 56 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: It's a weird thing, you know. And you probably ran 57 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: into dogs who spoke German when you were in Germany. 58 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 2: Are you teasing me, Ben? 59 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:32,520 Speaker 1: No? 60 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: I mean like like they when they bark, they do 61 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: it with like a German accent. Is that what you're saying? 62 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: Well, they wouldn't respond to commands. 63 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: There you go. Yeah, but I'll twist it around. 64 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: Also, and something that has nothing to do with this episode. 65 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: I think it's hilarious the way that other languages will 66 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: right the sound of a dog bark. You can look 67 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: it up for yourselves, folks. I think you'll enjoy it. Oh, 68 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: I forgot Hi, I'm Ben Whoa. 69 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 2: That was the longest preamble pre name drop opening ever. 70 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 2: My name is NOL and just to get it out 71 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 2: of the way and not get it out of the way. 72 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 2: This is a cause for celebration. We'd like to welcome 73 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 2: back with open arms, our super producer, Casey Pegram. 74 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: It's been too long, Casey, thank you so much for 75 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,160 Speaker 1: returning here to the States, here to the studio, here 76 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 1: to ridiculous history. 77 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:26,839 Speaker 2: Casey's into dogs, right, you like dogs. I'm a dog person, absolutely, Yeah, 78 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 2: what would you say? You're more a dog person or 79 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 2: a cat person both growing up, so I'm pretty agnostic 80 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: or ambidextrous. 81 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,239 Speaker 1: I got with your animal affection. 82 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 83 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 1: So it's it's interesting because we often hear of this 84 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,799 Speaker 1: divide between cats and dogs, and with just a brief 85 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:55,360 Speaker 1: nod to the science behind domestication, it's fascinating nol. Dogs 86 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: were domesticated by people, but cats largely domesticated themselves. 87 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: Cats do everything for themselves. Man, They're persnickety little creatures 88 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 2: who don't need us, and they will eat us when 89 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:09,240 Speaker 2: we die in our apartments, sad and alone. 90 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 1: Or if the size difference was reversed, they would also 91 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 1: eat you totally. 92 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 2: If I told you about how my cat like brings 93 00:05:15,080 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 2: little presents and like like just looks like they look 94 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 2: like Satanic rituals laid out on my doorstep, like decapitated squirrels, 95 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: and you know, with the guts in the shape of 96 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 2: a pentagram and horrifying. Yeah. Yeah, and I share a 97 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 2: bed with this thing. What am I thinking? 98 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: Colleague? And someone worked within the past, laur And Vogelbaum 99 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: has the same thing with her cat. That's because you 100 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: guys have indoor outdoor cats. 101 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:40,039 Speaker 2: Well, I finally put a bell on that little bastard, 102 00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: and now I'm hoping to give those things a fighting chance. 103 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: See. I let my cats just be the agents of 104 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: chaos they were meant to. 105 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: No, that's true, and Lincoln appreciated cats in addition to dogs, 106 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 2: cause he referred to cats as like one of his hobbies. Yeah, 107 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 2: but his old pal, his trusty sidekick through thick and thin, 108 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 2: well up to a point, was an old dog. 109 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a dog. And today's episode that we're 110 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 1: finally getting too is about this dog. It's also a 111 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 1: way to answer a question about dog names, because when 112 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: you think of a dog, you think of generic dog names, right, spot, sparky, Yeah, 113 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: things like that. And I don't know about you know, 114 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: but it's strange to me when I meet a dog 115 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: with a person name. 116 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, like Stephen or Ashley. I love it though. I'm 117 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 2: a fan of it. When I first heard of a 118 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,840 Speaker 2: pet that was named after a human, I thought that 119 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 2: was the most clever thing in the world. 120 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,160 Speaker 1: The first one I met was neither a dog nor cat. 121 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: It was a turtle, and I was so impressed. His 122 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,360 Speaker 1: name was Robert Lewis Stevenson. 123 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:48,479 Speaker 2: That's great. He was a very trepidacious, explorative turtle for sure, 124 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: very slowly exploring his surroundings. 125 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: He was tentative. But with dogs, there's one name that 126 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,680 Speaker 1: always feels like the generic, the quintessential name. 127 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 2: For a dog. Yeah, like a Kleenex yeah yeah, or 128 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 2: xerox yeah, but you know for a dog, right, or Google. 129 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,400 Speaker 2: But for a dog, it's Fido right out here, boy here, 130 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 2: Fido here, Fido? You ever heard that in the Looney 131 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 2: Tunes cartoon? 132 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: Very popular in Looney Tunes and I think some Disney 133 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: stuff as well. These days, Fido isn't even in the 134 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: top one hundred common dog names. 135 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:22,720 Speaker 2: They're a named Stephen and stuff. 136 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:28,160 Speaker 1: Yeah right, They're all named George Ashcroft or something. But now, 137 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: even with the popularity of Fido declining. Everybody in the 138 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: English speaking world at least associates the name Fido specifically 139 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: with a. 140 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 2: Dog like let me get a coke, you mean a soda? Right, 141 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 2: let me see that Fido, you mean that dog like that? 142 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:47,360 Speaker 1: And it turns out right that there's a reason for this. 143 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: There is a traceable, specific reason that Fido became known 144 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: world over as a dog's name, and it goes back 145 00:07:55,240 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: to our boy, young rail splitter himself, Abraham Lincoln. 146 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that old yellow dog we were talking about. 147 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 2: His name was Fido, and he was a mongrel kind 148 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: of a mixed breed yellow, floppy eared fellow that Lincoln 149 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: just adored. And he loved to play with Fido around 150 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: his home in Springfield, Illinois with his sons Tad and Willie. 151 00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: Who are stories of their own, believe you me. Yeah, 152 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: as he before he became president, he had several dogs 153 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: and cats in his home in Illinois, and seems like 154 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: the crowd favorite was Fido. At least Lincoln's favorite was Fido. 155 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 2: We'll get into a little bit more of the Fido 156 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 2: lore later, but for now, in his heyday, Lincoln, before 157 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 2: he became elected president, Fido he would walk around town. 158 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 2: He would go get a little trim at the barber shop, 159 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 2: and Fido would wait patiently outside for him, untied, just 160 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 2: perfectly loyal. What's the word? Fido is short for what fidelity? 161 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: Right? The name is Latin for faithful right. And for 162 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: about five years before Abraham Lincoln became president, he was 163 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: a lawyer, and Fido would just follow him everywhere. 164 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I keep seeing mentions of Fido would even carry 165 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 2: parcels for Lincoln in his mouth. 166 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he became sort of this walking business card 167 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: for Lincoln as well in town because they would see 168 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: the little yellow dog and they would know that the 169 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 1: lawyer Lincoln was around. It was about Yeah, but fame 170 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: changes things, right. In eighteen sixty three, as he was 171 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: preparing to move to the White House to serve as 172 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,440 Speaker 1: Commander in chief of the US, people started to think 173 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 1: that Fido was maybe a little too friendly, a little 174 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: too outgoing. 175 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 2: Not even that, maybe even a little fragile, right, because 176 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 2: when in his hometown, you know, when the president won 177 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 2: the election, there were you know, all kinds of all 178 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 2: kinds of commotion, right, we had cannon fire fireworks. 179 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: Screaming pol politicians. Yeah, people farting. 180 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, all of that, various noises and Fido it was 181 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 2: spooked by this. He was not excited about this. It 182 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: made him very uncomfortable and he, you know, totally kind 183 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: of Withdrew. 184 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was described as a frisky mongrel in a 185 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: Life magazine profile of him at the time. So he 186 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: did not accompany. Originally, the Lincolns to DC. Instead, they 187 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: picked up a dog named Jip and two goats, Nanny 188 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: and Nanco and. 189 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 2: Get were the goats to mow the lawn at the 190 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 2: White House. 191 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: You know, my old co host, Scott Benjamin is all 192 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: about that. 193 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: Well, there's a service here in Atlanta where you can 194 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: rent a goat that'll clean up your their foliage. 195 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not just in Atlanta. When Scott recommended 196 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 1: to me that I, instead of repairing my lawnmower, rent 197 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: a goat, I thought he was joking. 198 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 2: But Gott doesn't joke about stuff like that. 199 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: He doesn't really joke. He's a very sincere dude. 200 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 2: That's true. Shout out to Scott Benjamin or is I 201 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: like to refer to him f Scott Benjamin. So, yeah, 202 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 2: Fido stayed behind and it took a while, but the president, 203 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: it was very important for him that his old trustee 204 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: yellow dog Fido, had a suitable home with suitable affections 205 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 2: and spoilage. 206 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly, And that's why he decided to have 207 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: another person, a person he could trust, take care of Fido. 208 00:11:30,559 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: Back there in Springfield, he contacted John Roll, who was 209 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: a carpenter, and said, hey, you and your family, could 210 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: you take care of Fido. He's a great dog. You've 211 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: seen him around town. He's the one who carries parcels. 212 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 1: They were old pals. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And so he 213 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: was already familiar with Fido, but just like any helicopter 214 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: dog parent. As Lincoln left to pursue the presidency, he 215 00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: also left behind detailed instructions for Fido's data care and 216 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: spoiling and the stuff he likes. Stuff he doesn't lie. 217 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 2: Now, dare we say conditions? 218 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: Yes? 219 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:08,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, additions? What were some of those? Hit us? 220 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: Whenever the role family was eating, they had to give 221 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: scraps from the table to Fido. Also, he could never 222 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: be yelled at or scolded for having muddy paws in 223 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: the house. 224 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 2: This becomes a theme with Fido always having muddy pause right, 225 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 2: and being a little too eager to hop up on people. 226 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: And they gave him some equipment too, right, give the 227 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: roles some equipment. 228 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a custom couch that Lincoln himself had 229 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: built because, as we know, unlike the myth of Napoleon 230 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 2: being extra mega super short, he was just sort of 231 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 2: an average height, maybe a little shorter than average. Lincoln 232 00:12:44,520 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 2: was in fact quite tall, yes. 233 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:49,200 Speaker 1: And some people have speculated is due to a condition 234 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: known as Marfan syndrome. But regardless of the cause, Lincoln 235 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: himself was one heck of a scarecrow. He was six 236 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: feet four, very skinny, looked like you could tie a 237 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: kite to him and he would fly away. And so 238 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: a couch that you would buy at the store was 239 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: not going to accommodate a man of his height. 240 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: His lanky frame, His legs would just be hanging off 241 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: the side if he wanted to have a nice lie down, right, 242 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:17,880 Speaker 2: So yeah, I say this custom coust was made of 243 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 2: horse hair. And it was also Fido's favorite piece of furniture. 244 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 2: And I'm sure you had familiar smells and all that. 245 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 2: And he made sure that the family that was taking 246 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 2: Fido got this piece of furniture so that he could 247 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 2: lounge around on it and feel super duper at home. 248 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: And it's tough to overstate the importance of this sofa 249 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: to Fido himself, because when he was frightened, this is 250 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: the sofa he hid under. When he was happy, this 251 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: is the sofa he lounged upon. In a very real way, 252 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: the sofa, second to Abraham Lincoln is the most important 253 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,840 Speaker 1: thing in the home to fight him. We mentioned earlier 254 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: Lincoln's sons, right, Tad and Willy, yep, Tad Willie, and 255 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: they were of course hit by this. This was their 256 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 1: childhood dog. They're saying, oh shucks, good on Dad for 257 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 1: being the president. But why can't fight ocus. 258 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 2: The end of an era? You know? But they I'm 259 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 2: sure Dad, all honest abe explained it to the boys 260 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 2: very gingerly, and I'm sure they came to understand. I'm 261 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 2: speculating here a little bit. But they seemed like good boys. 262 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: You might have said, look, I can do two goats. 263 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: It's the best they could do. 264 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 2: Well yeah, yeah, Hey, that's a good deal, though, man, 265 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 2: one dog for two goats. 266 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: I don't know. 267 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: Dogs don't mow your lawn either. Those goats, though, apparently, 268 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 2: were hell raisers in the UF House. The staffers did 269 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: not like them because they would like not only chew 270 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: up the grass like, they would chew up like everything. 271 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: Have you ever hung out with a goat with their 272 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: weird octopus eyes, you mean, greatest of all time? I'm flattered, nol, 273 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: thank you. No, the physical. 274 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 2: Goat, now I have not. I'd be afraid they'd buck. 275 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, they're weird. They can be affectionate, but they will 276 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 1: eat or near anything. 277 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, like you know, your fist or your heart. But 278 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 2: that's just with their cuddingness. 279 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. So yeah. So despite all the gestures and all 280 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: the reassurances you can make, anybody who has been a 281 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 1: parent who had to explain the loss of a pet 282 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: to a child understands that it's heavy and deep stuff, 283 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: whether it's just moving or whether the pet has passed away. 284 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: And perhaps ridiculous historians, as you're listening, you're thinking of 285 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 1: moments in your life when you were a child and 286 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: you lost a pet or you were somehow put out 287 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: of contact with it. It's very psychologically trying, and Lincoln 288 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: to go with Allegedly here allegedly, Lincoln attempted to combat 289 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: this by resorting to a relatively new technology at the time. Yeah, 290 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: he wanted to, you know, have a nice family portrait 291 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 1: of Fido. And we've got these images around today. It's great. 292 00:15:58,080 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 2: You can see them like lounging on what is it 293 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 2: like a look throw rug kind of situation. What do 294 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 2: we got here? 295 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it looks like he is on a table with 296 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: a nice rug or heavy tablecloth, and he's got his 297 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: paws just roguishly hanging off like he's ready to jump, 298 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: but he's comfortable. 299 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 2: And this is back when you would have had to 300 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 2: stand really still. Doesn't it seem like taking a picture 301 00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 2: of a dog would be challenging and best. 302 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it would have to be a super chill dog. Yeah, 303 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: but be that as it may. Turned out, it worked, 304 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 1: and there's a pretty good photograph of Fido, which you 305 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: can find if you just google Fido, Abraham Lincoln. We 306 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: did find one wrinkle to the story here, at least 307 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: in terms of chronology, right. 308 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is how we start getting well, I 309 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 2: think we can use this as a jumping off point 310 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 2: into the kind of sad part of this story. There 311 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 2: is a story and by the name of doctor James Cornelius, 312 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: who curates the Abraham Lincoln collection at the Abraham Lincoln 313 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,400 Speaker 2: Presidential Library and Museum, who says there are some issues 314 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 2: with the chronology of when this photograph was taken. Original 315 00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:14,680 Speaker 2: reports suggested that Lincoln himself commissioned it, and it seems 316 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,399 Speaker 2: maybe a little more likely that it was done in 317 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 2: the aftermath of President Abraham Lincoln's assassination, when Fido would 318 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 2: have been a very famous dog and some eagle eyed 319 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:30,479 Speaker 2: photog around Springfield thought it might be a hot ticket 320 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,440 Speaker 2: item to have photographs of the dog that they could 321 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: sell to mourners. 322 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, so you'll hear two different versions of the chronology here. 323 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 1: You'll hear that the photo was made after the assassination 324 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:50,360 Speaker 1: or you'll hear that it was made beforehand. And regardless 325 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: either way, this photo gets into newspapers and Fido the 326 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: dog himself, and just the name Fido becomes universally claimed 327 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: in the US and probably a little bit beyond the 328 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: US as well. So this is when people start naming 329 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: their own dogs Fido. Right, A kid sees a dog 330 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:13,960 Speaker 1: in the newspaper and the dog's name is Fido, and 331 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: they think, I'm gonna name my dog Fido, just like 332 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: President Lincoln's dog. And when Lincoln was assassinated in eighteen 333 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: sixty five in the Ford Theater. This did very little 334 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: to quell Fido's popularity. In fact, it added to it 335 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: isn't that correct. 336 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 2: Yes, Ben, that's exactly right. People would line up to take, 337 00:18:35,880 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 2: you know, to meet the presidential dog. And here here's 338 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,600 Speaker 2: a little bit of a breakdown of the story of 339 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 2: this photograph, as it kind of like weaves into this 340 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 2: part of the story. So this guy by the name 341 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 2: of F. W. Ngmeier had a photo studio in Springfield, 342 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 2: and according to the original story, it was in late 343 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 2: eighteen sixty or early eighteen sixty one. There are actually 344 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,560 Speaker 2: three shots of Fido, one nice from the front shot 345 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:06,719 Speaker 2: and then two profile shots where he's a little bit 346 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,480 Speaker 2: more kind of hunkered down, like he's swimming in a 347 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 2: he's trying to ford a stream of some kind, right. 348 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: And the exposure makes them all look radically different. 349 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's true. The one from the front is very 350 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 2: Cepia looking, and then there's another cpo looking one from 351 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:27,520 Speaker 2: the side that is very high contrast, kind of like 352 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 2: what the background is totally white and you can't see 353 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 2: any texture, is almost blown out. Yeah, and then the 354 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 2: last one, which I think is by far the most 355 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,359 Speaker 2: successful of the photographs. Aesthetically, you can see that the 356 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,240 Speaker 2: wall has kind of a shaded shadow you look to it, 357 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 2: and the dog's fur is properly exposed, and you can 358 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 2: see the texture of the rug. And there's a lot 359 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 2: more detail in this one. 360 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's also the fur is so detailed that it 361 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,160 Speaker 1: almost looks like Fido might have some German shepherd in them. 362 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 1: So ing Meyer fw Ngmeyer has also become the subject 363 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: of investigation, especially by a guy named Dick Hart in 364 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: his book Springfield, Illinois Nineteenth Century Photographers. 365 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 2: But the problem is that apparently between eighteen sixty and 366 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 2: eighteen sixty one, Ingmeier wasn't didn't have a photography studio. 367 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 2: He was actually working as a minister in the Baptist faith. 368 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,639 Speaker 2: I guess that was his weekend job. And then he 369 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 2: was also a sewing machine salesman. 370 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, he was selling sewing machines and probably preaching on 371 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 1: the side as well. He ran a bunch of ads 372 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: in various papers for his sewing machine agency. But he 373 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: didn't even start paying for a photographer's license until eighteen 374 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: sixty two. 375 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, a photographer's license. 376 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: Uh huh. It was a different time. 377 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 2: That seems yeah. 378 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 1: Wow. Well also it's a really new technology, so you 379 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: probably it's a new technology. You probably them just spitballing here. Man. 380 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,520 Speaker 1: You probably have to have some sort of training. 381 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 2: Safety training. They got those flash bulbs. They can take 382 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 2: your eye out of burn your fingers a bit best. 383 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,399 Speaker 1: I mean, new technology is always a pain. Have you 384 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,879 Speaker 1: ever watched videos of someone attempting to start a model 385 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:22,920 Speaker 1: t It's crazy? You can break your arm. 386 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 2: Well, I just would like to You got to like 387 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 2: pull it like a lawnmower. 388 00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: You have to crank it. Yeah, yeah, you have to 389 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: starting a chair a crank. 390 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 2: Oh okay, that's crank. 391 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 1: And if it gets cantankerous, it will fly back with 392 00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: such force that will break. 393 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 2: Your fork kick at you. Wow. 394 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: So probably I would like to think take it a 395 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: photograph was not that dangerous or didn't have that possibility 396 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: for danger, But you had to have some training. And 397 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: what you brought up here is really important because we're 398 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:55,440 Speaker 1: looking again at the timeline. So that's eighteen sixty two, right. 399 00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:58,440 Speaker 2: That's right. That is allegedly when he began to pay 400 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:02,360 Speaker 2: for this license and installments I'm imagining, and that's that's 401 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 2: ten dollars total for the license, which was you know, 402 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,960 Speaker 2: a pretty penny back in eighteen sixty. 403 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: Two, and he first ran an ad for his photography 404 00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: business in October of eighteen sixty four because there were 405 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,360 Speaker 1: a lot of soldiers passing through nearby Camp Butler. It's 406 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,200 Speaker 1: important to say that this chronology of the license and 407 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: the advertisements, this chronology does not prove that Ingmar did 408 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,840 Speaker 1: not take those pictures of this pooch in eighteen sixty 409 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: or eighteen sixty one, but it calls it into question, 410 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:43,840 Speaker 1: you know, that's right. 411 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 2: And this is all from a fantastic post, you know, 412 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,159 Speaker 2: speculating on this chronology, because again a lot of this 413 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 2: stuff is just that speculation, but it comes from a 414 00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 2: pretty solid source, the guy by the name of doctor 415 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 2: James Cornelius, who's the curator of that Abraham Lincoln collection 416 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 2: at the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum. So if 417 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 2: anyone knows he got to know. 418 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's the leading expert. Literally, he sold a matched 419 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: set Ingmar that is, sold a match set of four 420 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: photos with identical back marks, which are think of it, likenk. 421 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: You may have seen your parents do this. Writing on 422 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: the back of a photograph with the name and date, 423 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: the time or description. 424 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like like a time code that you would 425 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 2: see cameras these days. Actually, well not so much, but 426 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 2: like they used to be when you get the prints, 427 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 2: maybe that annoying little watermark in the bottom left hand 428 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 2: corner that was the time and the day. There's something 429 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,440 Speaker 2: kind of similar, if not more analog at play here. 430 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, exactly. And in this book that we mentioned 431 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: by Heart, there's this match set of four photographs that 432 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: Ingmar sold with these back marks, and in the Heart 433 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,760 Speaker 1: book they're dated back to eighteen sixty five and eighteen 434 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,560 Speaker 1: sixty six. The fotographs are the following. A hillside tomb 435 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 1: in Oak Ridge Cemetery, a photograph of Lincoln's old home. 436 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: Photograph of a horse known as Old Bob, which I 437 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: think is a cool horse name. 438 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 2: Is that the same as old Robin? Is that short 439 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 2: for it? Because I've seen it both ways? You have 440 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 2: two horses, because Rob could be short for Bob, could 441 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 2: be short for Robin, Bob could be short for yeah, yeah, 442 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,120 Speaker 2: because Robin is I don't know. The photograph that I'm 443 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 2: seeing is actually captioned President Lincoln's horse Old Robin. 444 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 1: It's gotta be the same horse, because I've seen the 445 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: same photograph and then I'm looking at the description from 446 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: doctor Cornelius. So maybe doctor Cornelis is just so familiar 447 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,280 Speaker 1: with him that he calls him old Bob, Oh Bob. Yeah, 448 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,119 Speaker 1: he's spent a lot of time researching this. 449 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 2: Also in the photograph, might maybe they were more formal, 450 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 2: you know, that was the that was the horse's Christian name. 451 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 2: But if you were familiar, you could call him old Bob. 452 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: But most importantly, that fourth photograph is the high quality 453 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: profile snap a fighto. 454 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 2: And you know these look like ben These look like 455 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 2: the kinds of postcards you would buy at a gift 456 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 2: shop for like the Grand Canyon or President Abraham Lincoln's 457 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 2: boyhood home or what have you. Right, Yeah, So the 458 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 2: theory here is that no, these photos were not commissioned 459 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:20,560 Speaker 2: by Lincoln himself during his life. They were done as 460 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 2: a kind of get rich quick scheme by this guy 461 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 2: Ingmeyer when Lincoln's death brought droves of mourners and people 462 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 2: paying their respects to Springfield. 463 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: So why do we believe doctor Cornelius's a version of 464 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:41,440 Speaker 1: the events. Well, that's primarily because he has matched times 465 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:45,960 Speaker 1: and dates into a single unified chronology, and the story 466 00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: about Lincoln commissioning the photographs actually comes to us through 467 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: John Roll primarily. And you can't really We're not saying 468 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: role is lying, but it's very easy for him to 469 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: be mistaken. You can't really blame someone for getting the 470 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: details of a dog picture a little bit off, you know, 471 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: decades and decades later. 472 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 2: I have heard of worse historical blunders, my friend. 473 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: Right, So doctor Cornelius finds a kicker a nail in 474 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: the chronological coffin. Here he says that if the Lincoln boys, 475 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: Tad and Willie had a photograph of Fido in the 476 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: White House, why does it not have that same back mark, 477 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: the mark that Ingmeier used to distinguish his photographs, right, 478 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: why doesn't have one from eighteen sixty to eighteen sixty one. 479 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,640 Speaker 1: The thing is, the one surviving copy today is identical 480 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: to the images from eighteen sixty five in both the 481 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,720 Speaker 1: label and the back mark that indicates the provenance of 482 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 1: the photo. If someone took a photo of Fido for 483 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: the boys in eighteen sixty one, why would it have 484 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,720 Speaker 1: needed the label President Lincoln's Dog. You can find the 485 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: family's photo album today in the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library 486 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: Museum or apple Plum. That's the acronym that is, that's 487 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: a literal mouthful of word salad. Yeah, but you can 488 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,680 Speaker 1: you know, you can find the photo album today and 489 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't have all of the photos. About half of 490 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: them are missing, but the other half are in the 491 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 1: Lincoln Financial Foundation collection in Fort Wayne, Indiana. And so 492 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 1: to Cornelius, to doctor Cornelius, all of this evidence points 493 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: to the photo being taken in eighteen sixty five. 494 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 2: I think had some good detective work there from the 495 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 2: good doctor. 496 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: I agree. He is the Sherlock Holmes of Abraham Lincoln 497 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: Dog Photos. Dog photos. Yeah, guys, you might be saying, look, 498 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,639 Speaker 1: I get it, the dog picture was probably made in 499 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: six not sixty one. But for Pete's sake, for Fido's sake, 500 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: can't you just let me enjoy a cute picture of 501 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: a doggo? 502 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean seriously, it was like one of the 503 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 2: original dogo memes. But also, you know, we really did 504 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 2: spend a lot of time talking about those pictures. I'm 505 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,200 Speaker 2: fascinated by the whole the mystery of it. And then 506 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:22,680 Speaker 2: when things make their way into official accounts, that then 507 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 2: proved to not be the case. But this story does 508 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: take an interesting turn. Dare I say, a pretty sad 509 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 2: turn for old Fido. 510 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're right. So obviously it's a national tragedy 511 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: when Abraham Lincoln is assassinated and it turns out that 512 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: Fido also met an unfortunate end. In eighteen sixty six, 513 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 1: about a year after Lincoln's assassination, Fido, again very much 514 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: a dog of the people, never met a person he 515 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,520 Speaker 1: didn't like. Fido is walking along, minding his own business, 516 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,720 Speaker 1: and he sniffs across somebody who appears to be sleeping 517 00:28:58,760 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: on the sidewalk. 518 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say, sniff's a crotch 519 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 2: of someone who appeared to be sleeping on the side. 520 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: Possibly both. I bet you. I bet you if you 521 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,640 Speaker 1: if a friendly dog met Union, didn't move, the first 522 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,240 Speaker 1: thing you would do is sniff your body. 523 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 2: He wants to be sure if you're cool. But this 524 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 2: guy was not cool, As it turns out, there's a 525 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 2: couple of accounts of the story, conflicting accounts. We'll go 526 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 2: with the most sensationalized, depressing account, which is that first 527 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,560 Speaker 2: that is, which is that this intoxicated gentleman, this roused 528 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 2: about this. This kind of delinquent guy woke from his 529 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 2: drunken stupor and stabbed the dog, you know, to death 530 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 2: with a knife. 531 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,360 Speaker 1: In a panic, right attacked. Yeah, well the yeah. 532 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 2: And I've even seen it was even written up that 533 00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 2: it was more malicious that he was just like in 534 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 2: his drunken rage. Should probably read that when actually it 535 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 2: was a letter that came from the caretaker of the dog. 536 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: Yes, in nineteen fifty four, John Roll, the caretaker of 537 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: Fido himself, laid the following information to Time magazine. 538 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 2: Okay, so more of an interview than a letter, But 539 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 2: here we go. I didn't realize this came so late 540 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 2: in the game. He must have been quite old. 541 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: So you can see how he could get some facts wrong. Yeah. 542 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 2: So, but the way he tells it is a little 543 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 2: bit more. This is the most malicious account of this guy. 544 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 2: He says, quote, we possessed the dog for a number 545 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 2: of years until one day the dog, in a playful manner, 546 00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 2: put his dirty paws. There's dirty paws again upon a 547 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 2: drunken man sitting on the street curbing, which I think 548 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 2: that means like whittling, and in a drunken rage, thrust 549 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 2: his knife into the body of poor old Fido. So Fido, 550 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,200 Speaker 2: just a poor yellow dog, met the same fate as 551 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 2: his illustrious master assassination. 552 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 1: So that's that's the most sensationalized version. But as as 553 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: we've established earlier, that may not be entirely accurate, and 554 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: even today people disagree on the specifics. We're talking about 555 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: this guy right who's on the street whittling his pine 556 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: stick or whatever, but we haven't given him a name yet. 557 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 2: No, we haven't. And that's the thing about the way 558 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,040 Speaker 2: these kinds of stories get passed around. It's really easy 559 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 2: to want to demonize the man who murdered Abe Lincoln's 560 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:16,120 Speaker 2: old yelled mongrel dog in the streets in a drunken rage, 561 00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 2: but a little less cut and dry when you actually 562 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,720 Speaker 2: realize that there was a human here with the story. 563 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 2: Another spin on the story that you can find comes 564 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 2: from a story in the Illinois State Journal from eighteen 565 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 2: ninety three, and here is a quote from that that 566 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,000 Speaker 2: also gives some pretty pretty sad details to the end 567 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 2: of old Fido's life, whichever way he ultimately went, whether 568 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 2: by force or by accident. Quote, he Fido was exceedingly 569 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 2: friendly and had a habit of showing his congeniality by 570 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 2: depositing his muddy yellow four paws plump on the breast 571 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 2: of any who addressed him familiarly. 572 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: Oh, and you can't yell at him for his pause. 573 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's another one of Lincoln's conditions to the role family. Hm. 574 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 2: I continue. His excessive friendliness eventually caused his death in 575 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,760 Speaker 2: a very unique way, and that Fido suffered the fate 576 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 2: of his master assassination. The dog, which was a yellow 577 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 2: fellow of moderate size, ran against Charlie Plank, who was 578 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 2: whittling a stick with a sharp, long bladed knife. By 579 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 2: an accidental move while the dog was expressing himself in caresses, 580 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 2: the blade was buried deep in his body. He shot 581 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 2: out the door like a flash and was never seen 582 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 2: again alive. Apparently it was a week or more before 583 00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: they found his body a month. Yeah, behind the old 584 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,240 Speaker 2: chimney stack of the Universalist Church there in Springfield. 585 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: So he got stabbed and ran in fear, right, That is. 586 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 2: What animals tend to do when they are mortally wounded. 587 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 2: They want to go die alone. I think a house 588 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 2: or something. 589 00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: And I think humans qualify as animals. It's true that part. 590 00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 1: Charlie Plank's story doesn't end with this murder of Fido. 591 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: We know a little bit more about him. He had 592 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 1: a couple of other encounters with law enforcement after he 593 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,680 Speaker 1: was Oh, we didn't mention it. He was a veteran, Yeah, 594 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: that's right. He was a veteran of the Civil War. 595 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: He was a member of Company G of the one 596 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,680 Speaker 1: hundred and fourteenth Illinois Infantry Regiment, which was considered a 597 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: pretty illustrious company if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, And we 598 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: know that he had been beaten and robbed by two 599 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 1: men on North seventh Street in eighteen sixty five. We 600 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,520 Speaker 1: know he got in an argument with a guy named 601 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 1: Peter Burns in eighteen sixty eight, ending the argument by 602 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: drawing a revolver with small shot and shooting Burns in 603 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: the shoulder. Again, it was a different time he also 604 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: got He also was involved in a court case. Burns 605 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 1: was fined at the sum of three dollars quote for 606 00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: using language to Charles playing calculated to provoke a breach 607 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: of the peace. Language you say fighting words. Oh my goodness, 608 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 1: I said, you wastrel, you dunderhead astrel? Is that like 609 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,399 Speaker 1: a wasskly rabbit. It's a wasteful or good for nothing person. 610 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 2: As that must have fallen out of popularity. I don't 611 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 2: know that one. 612 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: So we know what roughly happened to Plank. He had 613 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: his up seat, his downs. He had been in some 614 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 1: legal altercations. He moved to Michigan, eventually worked as a 615 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: clerk and expressman, and passed away in March of nineteen seventeen. 616 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,280 Speaker 1: He is buried on the grounds of the Grand Rapids 617 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: Veteran Home. Now, this sounds like it's all ending on 618 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 1: a downer, but this is that's not the case, because 619 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: when we look at Fido, you know what it reminds 620 00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: me of. It reminds me of how Max the gorilla 621 00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:01,799 Speaker 1: in South Africa grabbed such attention and locked into the zeitgeist. 622 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: The photography is a relatively new medium. People love animals. 623 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 1: There's a picture of an animal that is published and 624 00:35:11,920 --> 00:35:13,799 Speaker 1: syndicated papers across the nation. 625 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 2: People are against stabbing animals. 626 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 1: Thank God, generally speaking. 627 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's part of the story. I didn't know, though. 628 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 2: I knew about Fido, and I knew he was Abe 629 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 2: Lincoln's old yellow mongrel best friend for life. I didn't 630 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 2: know that that kind of more melancholy part of the story. 631 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 2: So it's interesting. But yeah, and to this day, I mean, 632 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 2: like you said, Fido equals dog, like Xerox equals you know, photocopy. 633 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: Right right right? Or Google equals Internet. 634 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,760 Speaker 2: Search you mean WebCrawler. What are you talking about Google? 635 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: What are the other ones? There's Prodigy like yeah, and uh, 636 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: you know lactose and that's a different that's a different 637 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:58,440 Speaker 1: thing entirely. You might still have your AOL CDs friends 638 00:35:58,480 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: and neighbors. 639 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,240 Speaker 2: I keep a stack of them to use as coasters 640 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,280 Speaker 2: and just to hand out to people as party gifts 641 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 2: when they come by the house. 642 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: I always love to frisbee though, huh. Me and my 643 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,120 Speaker 1: old dog would would frisbee those things. 644 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 2: Oh, man, tell us about your old dog. 645 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,720 Speaker 1: It's too soon, man, really yeah. 646 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 2: Wow, A beloved pet. 647 00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: A beloved pet, very much. So I love pets and 648 00:36:19,560 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: we hope you do too. Yes, Fido became the world's 649 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 1: most famous dog for a. 650 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 2: Time because I think of a more famous one. 651 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,919 Speaker 1: Because mass media was going out. 652 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 2: Let's see, how was that one they shot into space? Right? 653 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:35,319 Speaker 1: H you make that up? No, the Russian dog and 654 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:39,640 Speaker 1: then there though I can't remember, we can find it. 655 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: His name is on record, and we should do a 656 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: thing on animals in space. But spoiler, there are a 657 00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,840 Speaker 1: couple of doubters, and. 658 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 2: That especially if you're again like you should be against 659 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 2: animal cruelty. 660 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: Right right, And so, although Fido's life ended too soon, 661 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,760 Speaker 1: he remains immortal as a symbol, the symbol, at least 662 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:04,560 Speaker 1: in American English, for all things cannot He is the 663 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: quintessential I believe we used the word earlier, the quintessential 664 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:14,840 Speaker 1: image of a faithful, friendly dog, a good boy, a good. 665 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,120 Speaker 2: Boy with b o ye it comes that good boy? 666 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:19,839 Speaker 2: Aw Snap, what up? 667 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:20,200 Speaker 1: What up? 668 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,280 Speaker 2: Family show? Looking up for yourself. 669 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,520 Speaker 1: So here ends our story of the rise and fall 670 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:31,759 Speaker 1: and immortal fame of the most famous presidential dog, the 671 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: frisky yellow Fido. But the story doesn't stop there, and 672 00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't stop with Fido. If you haven't checked it 673 00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:44,160 Speaker 1: out yet, do check out our community page Ridiculous Historians, 674 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 1: where I believe Noel. Was it you or was it 675 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 1: one of our fellow listeners who started that awesome threat about. 676 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 2: Past there's a cat thread. I think it's specifically about cats, 677 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,120 Speaker 2: and yeah, I posted a picture of my my good 678 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 2: boy bad boy. Really Ert Robert Fernando because he's, you know, 679 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 2: like I said at the top of the show, always 680 00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:10,560 Speaker 2: bringing creepy little tribute dismembered tribute. Yeah, I'm not a fan. 681 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:14,759 Speaker 1: He might be trying to teach you to hunt. Yeah, 682 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 1: but do let us know about the dogs in your life. 683 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: Send Casey and NOL and I some pictures, find us 684 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: some ridiculous historians. You can also find us on Instagram, Twitter, 685 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: and Facebook, where we are Ridiculous History or some variation thereof. 686 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:33,640 Speaker 2: It's true and as always, thank you to our super 687 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:39,440 Speaker 2: producer Casey Pegram, our super researcher Christopher Hasiotis and Alex 688 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,719 Speaker 2: Williams who composed our banging theme. 689 00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:47,400 Speaker 1: And super special thank you to our returning contributor Laurie L. Dove. 690 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: We worked on a sound queue for you. 691 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:56,759 Speaker 2: Laurie. Here we go. I like that and please don't 692 00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 2: forget to join us next time when we talk about 693 00:38:58,880 --> 00:38:59,800 Speaker 2: historical mooning. 694 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: We were so proud of them. 695 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, that's good. On. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 696 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,840 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 697 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.