1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: This is a special edition Crime Stories with Nancy Grace 2 00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:11,360 Speaker 1: ranging right now. The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation confirms a 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: signing a fifteen year old Elizabeth Thomas and Tad Cummings. 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,960 Speaker 1: T b I says Cummins use cash to purchase food items, 5 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: but did not buy anything else of significance. Elizabeth Thomas 6 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: was brand new to the Coloca School in Murray County. 7 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: She started as a freshman this year, entering the public 8 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: school system for the very first time. She's fifteen, he's fifty. 9 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. TB says the 10 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: Cummins was a teacher. A student reported seeing Cummins kissing 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 1: Elizabeth in his classroom in late January. Police arrested Elizabeth's mom, 12 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 1: Kimberly Thomas, last year. They charged her with five council 13 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: child abuse and neglect. Cummins told two students he's a 14 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: father figure to Elizabeth, told my daughter from me. There 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: is breaking news in the search for school girl Elizabeth Thomas. 16 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: A major break has just gone down. Believe it or not. 17 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: The two Elizabeth Thomas, the kidnaped girl, and the pervy teacher, 18 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:17,920 Speaker 1: Tad Commons, have been spotted as far away as Oklahoma. 19 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,119 Speaker 1: Joining me right now a special guest with us at 20 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: Crime Stories, Jason Watley, who has been in this from 21 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: the beginning representing Elizabeth family. I, Nancy Grace, this is 22 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: Crime Stories also with me, Alan Duke. I'm going to 23 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: go straight to Jason Venoan trial lawyer in Tennessee. Jason, 24 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 1: what do we know? Well, what we know that today 25 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: several images uh were that surfaced and released by the 26 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: tv I. All confirmed and when you see them, it's 27 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: obvious that is Tad Cummings in Elizabeth Thomas. That that 28 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: came out today from a Walmart in Oklahoma City. It 29 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: was from March fifteen, which is two days after she left. 30 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: We don't know what time yet the video was taken, 31 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: So we don't know if this morning, afternoon or whatever. 32 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: But we know it's them. So and another thing we 33 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: don't know, Nancy, we don't know why it took so 34 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:10,480 Speaker 1: long to give this. We know that the tv I 35 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: got this information about midweek. Uh that that's the most 36 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 1: that we know, or at least the tip came in midweek. 37 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: We don't know when they had the pictures, but so 38 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: but but from the investigatory side, we know that that 39 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: law enforcement didn't even have the tip until midweek of 40 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: this week, And of course this makes it very old, 41 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: and as the first tangible proof that we have that 42 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 1: they're together, it gives us a direction as well. Well. 43 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not really telling me a lot that 44 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: I don't already know. I know they're together, I know 45 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: he took her, but in a way, in a sense, 46 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 1: is giving me a wealth of information. I know now 47 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: they absolutely have altered their appearance. Alan, let's go through. 48 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: What did you see in the pictures? It appears to 49 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: me Nancy that in fact had Commins, as we had predicted, 50 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: has colored his whiskers, darkened his hair to make perhaps 51 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: himself look younger and different. And it looks also to 52 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: me that her hair is now red. Of course, maybe 53 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 1: Jason Whatley could tell us if that is her more 54 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: recent hair coloring, But it does look like she's colored 55 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,519 Speaker 1: her hair. Is that right? Well? It it looks that way. 56 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: We have not confirmed that clearly he has. I mean, 57 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 1: you can look at h a minute, white A manute 58 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: white a minute, gentleman, y'all both of you gone mad. 59 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: Her hair is a different color. Her hair is red. 60 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: Her hair was not red when she left, it was blond. Okay, 61 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: so I don't know how much you know about women's 62 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 1: hair podus, but she's colored her hair there. I'm the 63 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: expert in hair color. I'd have blonde part with sixteen. 64 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: Now what else do we see in the picture? Still 65 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: appears to be wearing the same black leggings that we 66 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: saw in on the last day that we had a 67 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 1: photo of her. And also she's wearing a plaid shirt 68 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 1: which seems to be her style and oversized men's plaid shirt. 69 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: Whether that was once she took with her or or 70 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:02,160 Speaker 1: Tad Cummins shirt, I don't Oh, but that's how she's dressed. Yeah, 71 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: it looks to be Maybe it's the same shirt, I 72 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: don't know, but it's clearly Amend's or an oversized shirt 73 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: that she's wearing, certainly the same style that she was 74 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: wearing when she left. Of note to this one of 75 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:17,520 Speaker 1: her mind. Uh your listeners here that uh when Tad 76 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: Commins left, one of the first videos we got was 77 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: from our Walmart here in Columbia. Uh, that showed him 78 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: on the aisle purchasing hair dye. I don't know if 79 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: you remember that or not. But and then there was 80 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: this story that oh no, he's person there for his 81 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: mother in law and this and that, Well, clearly maybe 82 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: he did, but he was also person in for himself. 83 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: And and obviously, remember Jason, I remember it. I was 84 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 1: trying to restrain myself and not interrupt you when I 85 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: was about to say, you know, everyone's kept saying the 86 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: hair or die was coincidental, and ten gentle to the 87 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 1: kidnapped be s all right, sure enough, this is what 88 00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: he got. And I guarantee you somewhere you got red 89 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: hair dyed too. I'm and I wish you hadn't taken 90 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: so long to come out this video, but that that's 91 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 1: what we're letting. That's a the hand were dealt. I 92 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: was focusing on her shirt. I do not think it's 93 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: the same shirt she had on when she left, although 94 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: they were both plaid. This one looks really loose, and 95 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: it looks like it belongs to Tad Cummins. I think 96 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: she's wearing one of his shirts. I mean, I don't 97 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: know where else says shocked, but I doubt they're spending 98 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 1: money on clothes. Nancy. I'm looking at the two photos now, 99 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,720 Speaker 1: the one from the surveillance when she left and the one, 100 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you have those in front of you two. 101 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, you know, far be from 102 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 1: me to disagree with Nancy Grace on this, but let 103 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,119 Speaker 1: me just say that as I look at it, here's 104 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 1: my thought, just for what it's worth. I think she's 105 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: in the same clothes that when she left, which means, 106 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: if that's the case, that she hasn't changed or she 107 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: changed back into her old clothes after leaving Monday morning, 108 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: going all day Tuesday, and this is at some time 109 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: on Wednesday, so that would be very telling if she's 110 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: in the same clothes. I look at her hair. I 111 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: have three daughters, and I know when their hair what 112 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: their hair looks like when it's not washed. Her hair 113 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: looks not washed, not kept, so you know, it looks 114 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: to me. My theory is at least in the one 115 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: picture I'm seeing here and and and her picture looks 116 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: a different depending on which picture you're looking at the 117 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: two together versus walking in single file. The color of 118 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:27,400 Speaker 1: the shirt looks different. But the bottom line is I 119 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: feel like that that they're not in a place of 120 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: comfort wherever they are. They're not staying in a house 121 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 1: or hotel, but that you know, I don't know that 122 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: this is my speculation, though, as I look at these 123 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: pictures and what her condition looks like to me, I 124 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: gotta agree with you. I was thinking about the likelihood 125 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: that who would last be spotted in one plaid shirt 126 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: and then be in a different one, and that's a 127 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: low likelihood. I think it's just the color and the 128 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 1: shading of the photos that I have. I think you 129 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:58,239 Speaker 1: may be right. I think she's wearing the same shirt, 130 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,159 Speaker 1: she's got on the same black ways, and her hair 131 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: looks greasy and unwashed, which leads me to think they 132 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: have not been in a hotel. That means that they 133 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: are in the car. I wonder if this Walmart has 134 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: surveillance of their parking lot so we could figure out 135 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: what car they got out of, I'm sure, And we're 136 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: hoping that we get more information on that from law enforcement. UM, 137 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: and we just haven't gotten that yet. But what we 138 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,400 Speaker 1: have received UH information on is the fact that they 139 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 1: were buying food items all right now. I don't know 140 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: what kind of food items yet, UM, but we want 141 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: to find out because that's gonna tell us are they 142 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: in the car? Are they camping? You know, if they're 143 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: buying canned goods, for example, when you're not opening a 144 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: can of pork and beans inside a Nissan rogue, I 145 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 1: don't think and so, UM, you know, that's gonna tell 146 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: us something as well. Another question I I have, Nancy, 147 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: is what was the process whereby Walmart finally produced this video? 148 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: How soon did Walmart know about uh the uh the 149 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: tip and that belief that they've been seen. Did it 150 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: take this along for Walmart to produce the video? Obviously 151 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: I don't know that. I don't want to cast any 152 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: stones yet towards Walmart, but my goodness, we've got to 153 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: get uh these images out sooner. This is March fifteen U. 154 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: From this point, you know, it's a day's drive from 155 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 1: Columbia to Oklahoma City, and then from Oklahoma City it's 156 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: to to the rest of the western United States. They 157 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: could be anywhere. And I'll remind you, uh you, Nancy, 158 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: that early on and I think I had said this, 159 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: and I've said this to the media before, but one 160 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 1: of our our student witnesses that we've talked to UM 161 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: talked to Elizabeth before she left, and Elizabeth had told 162 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: her that they're headed west, and she had told her 163 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 1: that and so this is consistent with what Elizabeth told 164 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:45,480 Speaker 1: her friend. I didn't realize that, but all along I 165 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: have wondered if Ted Cummins was not headed to where 166 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be odd to have a child bride and 167 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,560 Speaker 1: where there are, as they say, multiple wives and that 168 00:08:56,720 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: is commonplace. Because if you went somewhere, we're a polygamy 169 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: is uh not really outlawed, even though it's against the 170 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: black and white letter of the law. He could blend 171 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 1: in that way and he could marry under those, in 172 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: my mind, illegal circumstances. Again, even with a wife back 173 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: home in Tennessee, which she's filing for divorce today, by 174 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: the way, Jill Commins said, just so you know, Jill 175 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:28,559 Speaker 1: Cummins either filed today already or is in the process 176 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: of filing for divorce. You know, my heart really goes 177 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: out to that woman. I feel so bad for her. 178 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: Of course, I feel awful for Elizabeth because she's gonna 179 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: look back on this if she manages to live through it, 180 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 1: and it's going to be the worst thing that ever 181 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: happened to her. But the wife that trusted him and 182 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: gave all the years of her life to him, I mean, 183 00:09:52,360 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: they've been again us this for Pete's sake. I was glad, Yeah, yeah, exactly. 184 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: So what does this mean that they're headed there in Oklahoma? 185 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: Where could they be headed? Look at the map, Allen, Well, 186 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: I think you talk you were just talking about I've 187 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 1: actually made that drive from that same area through Oklahoma City. 188 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: Then you go into the North Texas Panhandle, you know, 189 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: north of Lubbock. You can go on up into Colorado, 190 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: or you could go down to New Mexico or on 191 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: up to Utah. Made that ride. It's easy just to 192 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: slip under the radar because it's not very populated. When 193 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: you say she was headed west, what more do we 194 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,720 Speaker 1: know about that? Jason, I wish we knew more. The 195 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: witness who told us that actually said that she had 196 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: been told of a specific place at one point and 197 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,560 Speaker 1: sort of been waffled on that point and then said, 198 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: well it was out west, and acted as though she 199 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: didn't remember. To assume she didn't. But even but I, 200 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: lets say it's troll oryer, I don't assume a whole lot, 201 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:57,480 Speaker 1: you know. So, Um, I think some of these kids 202 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 1: are scared to talk, but I was hoping, pray that 203 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: they'll beak up. As she said, anything about a specific place. Obviously, 204 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 1: we're gonna be following back up with that witness and 205 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: any others that we think might have information. But my goodness, 206 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: that's what she didn't she she claimed. She claimed she 207 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: did not remember she The same witness also said that 208 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,920 Speaker 1: that originally Elizabeth had a plan of a person who 209 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: would help hide them, but that uh, that didn't work out, 210 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: quote unquote, and that she had to go with another plan. 211 00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 1: And and so this was this was all known weeks 212 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:36,680 Speaker 1: before she left by one of her friends. What time 213 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: of the day or not was this to be honest 214 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: video taken? Do you know, Jason, Nancy, we don't we 215 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: We I want to know that because think about this. 216 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:50,319 Speaker 1: Either way, if they know, we don't know what they 217 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: did starting on the morning of March until the fift 218 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 1: But we know it's a one day drawing. So either 219 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 1: they either they took their their time getting to Oklahoma City, 220 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: or they got to Oklahoma City and decided to stay 221 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,760 Speaker 1: there for some period of time. Uh So I want 222 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: to know what time of the day it was. So 223 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: if they're there mid day in Walmart, that tells me 224 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 1: that they hung around Oklahoma City for a while. Well, 225 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: I know this. They haven't been in a hotel because 226 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 1: she hasn't lost her hair. Yeah, that's my thought too. 227 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 1: I mean it looks really bad when you look at 228 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: the close up. Yeah, but where was she when she 229 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: colored it? Because she didn't waste any time to do that. 230 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: She could have been in the bathroom at a McDonald's 231 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: for all she could. Or maybe they stayed in the 232 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: hotel that first night and she colored her hair, and 233 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: you know, they maybe they stayed somewhere for that purpose 234 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: of coloring her hair and his. They did have that 235 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 1: head start, So there's that Nobody really realized they were 236 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,959 Speaker 1: missing that first night, right, Well, yes, the first night, 237 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 1: they did. Absolutely on Monday night on the thirteenth, that 238 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: was when it was reported to law enforcement. The Amber 239 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 1: alert didn't go out until Tuesday four, and that was 240 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you there may be holes in the 241 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: the Amber alert system because it took a while because 242 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: they had to get charges together and all of that, 243 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 1: and they weren't even sure if they were together, and 244 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: and the way Tennessee kidnapping laws is written, there's some 245 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: real holes in the statute. And so we we had 246 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 1: all kinds of issues right then, and it took about 247 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 1: twenty four hours to get that amber alert out. Well, 248 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,319 Speaker 1: maybe maybe she could have gone someplace in the first 249 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 1: eight hours, because it was eight hours you know before. 250 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: Maybe that was one of the first things they did 251 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: was go to the go to the sink and do 252 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: the coloring. I'm just thinking about the scenario about what 253 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: wherever is the color or hair. I really don't give 254 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: a flying pig. What I'm trying to figure out is 255 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: which way they're headed and are in the mode of travel. 256 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 1: For instance, is their security camera? Is the surbillance in 257 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: the parking lot? Uh? Did they leave together? Are they 258 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 1: walking in and out of places separately so they won't 259 00:13:56,040 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: be spotted and then meeting up, say on Aisle number ten? Um? 260 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: Are they used in cash to see have a credit 261 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: card under a different name? Um? Questions like that that 262 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: might help me figure out what they're doing. The reason 263 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 1: I asked was it day or night? Are they traveling 264 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: at night and coming out at night and staying hidden 265 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 1: during the day. I'm just trying to figure out. Listen, 266 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: the only way you can catch him is to try 267 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: to think like him, and I'm just trying to fare 268 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: through the information. We've got to to make it usable. 269 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Well, you know I'm looking 270 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: at the mouth right now. So Allen was right from 271 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 1: Oklahoma City. What's interesting about the interstate system, there's not 272 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: at least if if you want to go northwest to 273 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: Colorado are Utah, there's no interstate to take you there. 274 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: You go do west Amarillo, which is above blah blah, 275 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,120 Speaker 1: then you you continue on iford you going do west 276 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: to Albuquerque, then you continue going do west into Arizona. 277 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: There's not really many options. In fact that Albuquerque you 278 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: could just go, uh, you'd have to turn east on 279 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: the interstate that goes to Denver and it kind of 280 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: winds its way up to Denver. So my point is this, 281 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: I think their their ultimate destination is somewhere along that 282 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: corner that I forty quarter. Of course it ends in 283 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: uh south or right at Las Vegas South, maybe south 284 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: of Las Vegas in that area. Let me ask you 285 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: another question. In that vein and Alan where which walmart 286 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: was this in Oklahoma? What city was it, what suburb 287 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: was it? What do we know? Nancy? This was a 288 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: Walmart on East I two forty service road in Oklahoma City. 289 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: And by the way, it was in the afternoon of March. Yeah, 290 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:43,280 Speaker 1: we can interpret that a couple of different ways. They're 291 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: not afraid to come out in the daytime hours, even 292 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: wearing the same clothes they were wearing when she left. 293 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: They are traveling along an interstate, and I imagine if 294 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: this was one of those interstate access rose that it 295 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: was visible from the interstate. Now on that interstate, where 296 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: do you go on that interstate? What if it leads 297 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: to we know that's where they were. I mean, did 298 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: you go to Oklahoma City intentionally? Or if you're passing 299 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: through going west. There's other ways if they were headed to, 300 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: for example, the Denver area, anywhere anywhere UM like that, 301 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: you wouldn't go through Oklahoma City. It's just it is 302 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: on the way going west through ultimately in New Mexico, Arizona, 303 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: southern California. That's where it goes. It's a it's a 304 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: it's an east west interstate system, and there's you really 305 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 1: have to go out of your way and saying you 306 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: start going to due north um UH or due south 307 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 1: uh to UH to deviate from that path. And so 308 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 1: it wouldn't have made sense if he was going to Dallas, 309 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: for example, they would have gotten off of I Ford. 310 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: He gotten on I thirty to go to Dallas. And 311 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: I want to make another point on what you just said, Nancy. 312 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: You know they're here. They are Amber Lerts issue. He 313 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: has to know it. This is a smart guy. He 314 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: knows that the Amber alerts out there, he's being raison. 315 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,360 Speaker 1: He's out there, open and obvious. And he kept his gotee. 316 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: Which which thing about that? In the first thing you 317 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: do is you shave your goateee, if that's every picture 318 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,000 Speaker 1: of you. But he didn't. He colored it. Is it 319 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:12,719 Speaker 1: because he thought it made him look younger? I mean, 320 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: what is it? Why would he Why would he keep 321 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: the goatee? Um, It's just interesting to me that he 322 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: chose to go to the trouble of coloring it as 323 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:23,760 Speaker 1: opposed to shaving it. And maybe maybe he thought somehow 324 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 1: that was that we would have expected him to shave it. 325 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's just another piece of this puzzle. Well, 326 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,560 Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something, Jackson. When I saw I 327 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: still had the gotee, I thought, what that would be 328 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: the first thing I would do is cut my hair, 329 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: get a different hairstyle, and get rid of the goatee. 330 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 1: I mean, she hasn't even changed her clothes, which also 331 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:46,159 Speaker 1: tells me she didn't bring along a lot of clothes 332 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,120 Speaker 1: from home. I mean, there are a lot of different 333 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 1: assumptions that we can make based on what we're seeing 334 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 1: in this one photo. That's what I'm saying. The Walmart 335 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:01,879 Speaker 1: is on the door that goes south. It's a bypass 336 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: south of Oklahoma City, and I actually drove this last year, 337 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,959 Speaker 1: and it will connect you with forty. You continue forty, 338 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: as you said, towards Amarillo, but if you veer off 339 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 1: at Elk City. This is exactly what I did, because 340 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 1: I drove from there up to Colorado, and it is 341 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,040 Speaker 1: a perfectly fine road eighty mile an hour speed limit 342 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: all the way pretty much all the way up there, 343 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,920 Speaker 1: and it wouldn't be very difficult for them to do. 344 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 1: You don't have to stay on the interstate. So I'm 345 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: saying maybe they went up towards Colorado and you can 346 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 1: get lost in those mountains. Another saying that Jason and 347 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:36,280 Speaker 1: I were talking about, and I want to hear your 348 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: thoughts on this Allan, it's what they bought. That was 349 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 1: my first question. What did they buy? For instance, if 350 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: they're buying micro various food. Yeah, but I mean what 351 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: specifically say they're by They bought microwave popcorn. Okay, Well, 352 00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: that gives me a lot of information. They're either in 353 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,879 Speaker 1: a hotel, or they have access to a microwave, or 354 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: they're staying with someone that's hiding them that has the microwaves. 355 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: I mean, you can aren't a lot from every single fact. 356 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: The fact that they're there during the daytime brazenly, the 357 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: fact that he's held on to his goateee, the fact 358 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,560 Speaker 1: that he bought her hair die, the fact that she's 359 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,639 Speaker 1: wearing the very same clothes as if she doesn't have 360 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: anything to change into. I mean, it all equals an answer. 361 00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 1: We just don't. We just don't have all the pieces 362 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: of the puzzles of the puzzle. What else do you see, Jason, 363 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: What can you decipher from it? Well, I'm looking here, 364 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: just a side note here, this Walmarts not far from 365 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 1: the will Rogers World Airport. Just the thought. Um also, 366 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: as I'm looking at this, if I'm coming forty from 367 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 1: uh Little Rock area, which is where forty takes off 368 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: of Interstate thirty. Um so, and I used to travel 369 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: that a lot going to Dallas, where my family is from. 370 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: Um it, you know, you've got it splits. It goes 371 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: to forty and Alan you said there at the one 372 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 1: off of two forty right, yes, on the service road. 373 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: I too, just south of Oklahoma City in some more 374 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: ways down you take the split instead of going to 375 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: downtown Oklahoma City, which which if you're gonna bypass, that 376 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: makes sense. It's probably a little faster. But it's a 377 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: good ways down that bypass. Uh, you know, So it's 378 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: a little bit you have to be a little bit intentional. Um, 379 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: you know, but maybe they're just going around Oklahoma City 380 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,640 Speaker 1: and they stopped there. I tend to think they were 381 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: in the area already, they were staying in the area. 382 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 1: And uh because again, while were they there on the 383 00:20:32,520 --> 00:20:37,159 Speaker 1: fift especially now you're saying the afternoon of Um, you know, 384 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:40,919 Speaker 1: it's it. In terms of other observations, while Nancy, I 385 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 1: I just want to hear what they were driving. I 386 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 1: want to know if that Nissan rogue still exists, did 387 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: they get rid of it, they get something else, you know? 388 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: And uh so I just don't know. I mean, I'm 389 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: just my mind spinning with seeing these images for the 390 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: first time. Well, another thing I'm looking at is their 391 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: body language, and I know that's not anything that would 392 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: hold up in a quordable law, but I'm still looking. 393 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: Do you notice the way she seems to be kind 394 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: of following him around timidly? Yes, if you look in 395 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: the images and still images they've released in both of them, 396 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: uh one, and she's right beside him, but she's looking 397 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: at him, and she's looking in his eyes as if 398 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,639 Speaker 1: as as if he's saying something and she's listening and 399 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 1: looking at him. The other one, she's walking behind him 400 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: in almost a subservient way. I mean, this is how 401 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: it looks, and and so you know, that's consistent with 402 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: a man who we believe was able to program her, 403 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,239 Speaker 1: had control over her. I get so angry when I 404 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: hear these people that even suggest that this is wilful 405 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: in the sense of two adults. Absolutely ridiculous, shameful that 406 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: that would even be considered. She is under his control 407 00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,959 Speaker 1: and has been under his control for some time. Remember, 408 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: this is a girl who would go to lunch with 409 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,160 Speaker 1: him when she would tell her siblings, I don't want 410 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,680 Speaker 1: to go with him, but he would. He would make 411 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: ridiculous threats to her about school, and she would go anyway, 412 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: you know, and she would end up forcing herself to 413 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: go because he had that kind of control over her. 414 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: So here she is allowing him around Walmart. This is 415 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,159 Speaker 1: a girl that that could have At any moment, she 416 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: could have taken off and run to someone and gotten 417 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:10,400 Speaker 1: help or whatever. But he obviously has control over her. 418 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys remember the case of 419 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:17,960 Speaker 1: the Grownie children h shafta grownie and her brother. They 420 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 1: were abducted and it all came to light when they 421 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,959 Speaker 1: were caught in a seven eleven. The little boy was killed, 422 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: her brother I think it was Dylan Grownie. And um, 423 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: there's video of her following her kidnapper and her rapist, 424 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:38,120 Speaker 1: an adult male following around this convenience store as if 425 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: in it looked like it was his daughter and he 426 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: had been raping her little brother and her. He killed 427 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: the little brother. All this had happened, and she's walking 428 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: along behind him and never says a word. I mean, 429 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:58,120 Speaker 1: you cannot expect children to voice their fears that way, 430 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,280 Speaker 1: especially when they're afraid of their after And I gotta 431 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: tell you, I got so upset this week when I 432 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: saw a comment someone had written under a story about 433 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,439 Speaker 1: Elizabeth that she wanted to go. Why are we worried 434 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,479 Speaker 1: about her? Why are we looking for her? Because she 435 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: is a child. She has no mother to take care 436 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,919 Speaker 1: of her. She's alone in this world and she's with 437 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: this guy, and my heart is just breaking. She will 438 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: never be the same after this. There's no way she 439 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 1: may be in therapy if she lives through it, if 440 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: it doesn't end in some crazy murder suicide pact, but 441 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 1: she'll never be the same about how much therapy she 442 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:45,040 Speaker 1: goes to. This is going to damage her for life 443 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 1: if she lives through at Jason, Yeah, I agree. Uh, 444 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 1: let's listen, we get her back today. Um, this child 445 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: is gonna have to have intensive therapy. She's gonna have 446 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,440 Speaker 1: to think about she to go back to that school. Obviously, 447 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: she's gonna have to be Every aspect of her life 448 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: is going to be rethought and reworked. I mean, how 449 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 1: do you even reintegrate into the home and feel safe 450 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: and and and know that everything's okay. I mean, it's 451 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: just this is something that's gonna be very difficult. I've 452 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: already talked to one of our best mental mental health 453 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 1: professionals in town that, uh, we hope is going to 454 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: come in and help us immediately when that day comes, 455 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: because we're gonna need that kind of help. Listen, it's 456 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: the way chelm Wa Station victims steel and I know 457 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 1: I've dealt with so many of them. They feel a powerless, 458 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: helpless that nobody was there to stop what happened, and 459 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: a lot of them live with an anger for the 460 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: rest of their lives. It affects all of her future 461 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: relationships that she has any with men and other people. 462 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I just pray you get side of this 463 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,800 Speaker 1: the line. That's my first prayer, and then I'll take 464 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 1: you from there. Absolutely. I mean, we have to take 465 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: it one day at a time, and that's you know, 466 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: every everything, uh that we hope and pray for right now, 467 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: sister's safe returnament. Yesterday when there was the the deciding 468 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:09,360 Speaker 1: allegedly in Memphis, Um, you know, the family was absolutely 469 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: electric over this and then to be told it wasn't 470 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: them was a letdown of monumental proportions. They just could 471 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,120 Speaker 1: I talked to Anthony today. He was in tears when 472 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: I talked to him about his daughter and the fact 473 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: that he saw her for the first time. I mean 474 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: just weeping as I talked to him, and uh, you know, 475 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 1: we don't have a place as as parents for those emotions. 476 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: We we shouldn't have to deal with those emotions of 477 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: having your child taken. Um So, I can't say, even 478 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 1: as a father of five, uh, how I would feel. 479 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,399 Speaker 1: I know how I think I would feel. I mean, 480 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: I'd have an armed policy together, searching every nook and 481 00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: craney in the country for this man. Uh you know. 482 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 1: But and I'd probably have to be on all kinds 483 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: of of uh uh anti anxiety medication just to function, 484 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: you know. Um So, it's just a just a very 485 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: difficult thing day by day. Today is particularly hard seeing 486 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 1: finally a picture that she she was with him, and 487 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 1: that truly they're not in the area, they're headed somewhere 488 00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: and uh and and they're gonna be hard to find. 489 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,640 Speaker 1: The very first thing that struck me is, thank god 490 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,400 Speaker 1: she's alive, followed by she died her here in red, 491 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 1: followed by the way that she looks kind of timid 492 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: and scared in the photo. Yeah, and the way that 493 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 1: Tad Cummins look like he's in a foul mood. If 494 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: you look at him, he certainly doesn't look like he's 495 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,640 Speaker 1: enjoying himself. So is it just because he's nervous. I mean, 496 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: you know, every picture that we've seen so far of 497 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: Tad Commins, he seems to have a smile on his face, 498 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: or he's singing about another young girl's deep blue eyes 499 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: or whatever. You know, Um, you know that that doesn't 500 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: look like the happy, go lucky Tad Cummins that everybody 501 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: seems to uh think about when they think about the 502 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: way he used to be with me is special guest 503 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 1: Jason Watley, who was representing Elizabeth Thomas's family. Thank you 504 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: to crime Con for sponsoring our podcast Today, Gotta crime 505 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: con dot com and find out the latest on the 506 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: biggest gathering of crime fighters in crime Sluice ever June nine, 507 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: Jun eleven in Indianapolis. Use code Nancy off Jason, thank you, 508 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: our prayers and our search goes on. Nancy Grace Crime 509 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: Stories signing off, goodbye friend.