WEBVTT - How to Land on a Government Watch List 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:02.840 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:07.560 It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:16.560 from house Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to 0:00:16.560 --> 0:00:19.480 the Chuck Show. I'm Josh with me always of course 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:23.240 this Chuck Charles w Chucker's Bryant. That's weird. It sounded 0:00:23.720 --> 0:00:26.280 the Chuck Show. It sounds like you said the Chuck Show. 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.479 You should be Chuck Show. Did you hear at that time? 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:33.879 I did, How you do? Chuck? Get out of here? 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:39.240 You fire? I'm waiting for this day for that would 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:41.800 be awful and such like I don't even want to 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:43.559 say relief. That sounds awful, but you know how it is. 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.120 It would be devastating and also like, ah, my brain 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:50.360 can relax, and then the next day I'd be all 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:53.120 upset again. I know what you're talking about. What I'm saying. 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.480 I used to have an alternative weekly newspaper, and whenever 0:00:56.560 --> 0:01:00.360 we were up on deadline, deadline, deadline, deadline, and we'd 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.880 missed the deadline, there was a sense of abject failure 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:08.640 that was encapsulated by the greatest sense of relief you 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:11.760 ever experienced. I don't want to I know exactly what 0:01:11.760 --> 0:01:14.480 you're talking about. I don't think I feel relieved here 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:18.479 because we got this. We got this all right, Yes, 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:26.240 say reassure me again, you got it good? Um, Chuck Josh. Okay, 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:28.200 we should probably chill out a little bit because what 0:01:28.240 --> 0:01:33.919 we're about to talk about is uh, to some a 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:40.720 a necessary evil. To others, it's brain dead national security 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:45.080 that we should have been doing since seventeen seven. Uh, 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:48.600 And to others, it's an egregious affront to civil liberties 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:52.080 of citizens. Yeah, but you know what I found. I 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.760 did some research on the a c l You. I 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:57.440 haven't found anyone that says like we shouldn't have a 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:01.400 watch list. No, but it's just like, hey, if you're 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:03.360 gonna have a watch list, you're gonna you're gonna do 0:02:03.360 --> 0:02:06.520 it better than this. Yes, from the a c l 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.680 U as well. Um, And I think everybody just assumed 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:10.919 I was talking about the A c l U and 0:02:11.000 --> 0:02:16.360 I said that some people find it to civil liberties. Um. 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:20.519 I was when we were researching this, like I had 0:02:20.560 --> 0:02:23.960 this um little tick in the back of my head, 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:26.800 right and I was burning and saying like there was 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:30.720 something about nine eleven and I was like, oh, yeah, 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:34.040 there were all these different warnings, all these different agencies 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:40.160 had information about al Qaeda. Apparently Bush was briefed before, 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.280 like the month before in the New York Times reported 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.760 back in two thousand four, Um, and it Alkada was 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.000 being watched. There. We were aware that there was a 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:54.119 hijacking plot, and they are all of these people, most 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.640 of them at least were on watch lists. But the 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:00.360 problem was is all of these agencies were in the 0:03:00.400 --> 0:03:04.040 midst of like some serious turf wars, and no one 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:06.640 was talking to one another, No agency was sharing this 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:09.160 information with one another, which kind of part of the 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:12.400 course from what I understand. Yeah, but I think that 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:18.120 changed in large part after nine eleven. Right, if it 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:21.239 didn't change in spirit, at the very least it changed 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:26.560 in practice on paper because all those different lists after 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:31.760 nine eleven happened were consolidated pretty quickly. After nine eleven happened. Um. 0:03:31.960 --> 0:03:35.840 I think May of two thousand three, Bush signed something 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:41.200 called Homeland Security Presidential Directive six, and the first one, 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:45.720 signed in two thousand one, I believe, established Homeland Security 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:50.040 as an agency. Two years later he signed six basically 0:03:50.080 --> 0:03:54.200 saying have you read it, uh, two, three, four and 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:56.600 five or six? Six, is there, two, four and five, 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.120 there's a there's one. It loses focused towards the end. 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:03.560 The last one was signed on bushes last day in office, 0:04:04.200 --> 0:04:07.920 and uh, it basically says all those international treaties we 0:04:08.000 --> 0:04:11.800 signed that say the Arctic and the Antarctic are belonged 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.560 to everybody. No one can claim on we were invoked 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.240 a part about the Arctic. We decided that the US 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.200 is quote an Arctic nation and therefore it has to 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:24.680 protect its Arctic interests, specifically natural resources as a matter 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:28.080 of national security. Yeah, so it kind of lost focused 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.520 for the end. But early on with with the Presidential 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.159 Directive six that said we need to take all of 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.640 these watch lists and create a central watch list, and 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:41.720 we need to actually administer it or administrate it properly. 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:48.160 And that created chuck, the consolidated a terrorist watch list. 0:04:48.839 --> 0:04:53.880 Because it's consolidated, it makes a lot of So that's 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:59.039 the government list that everyone is long joked about. There 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:02.279 were lists before were but the one that everybody thought 0:05:02.279 --> 0:05:05.839 about prior to two thousand one or two thousand three, 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:09.440 um didn't bear any resemblance to this one. This is 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:13.320 the list. Anyone who's ever been even remotely suspected of 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:19.720 being a terrorist. What's the language, um, engaging in terrorist activities? Right, Uh, 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:23.560 suspected to have engaged in conduct constituting in preparation for 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.520 an aid of or related to terrorism. Yes, And apparently 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.640 associating with a known terrorists isn't enough to get you 0:05:30.680 --> 0:05:35.360 on that list. Yeah, because after September eleven, there were 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.599 not many guidelines. It was just sort of let's just 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.480 put a bunch of names on the list. I mean, 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:43.000 not that will annially obviously, but um, they realized they 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:45.280 needed to refine it over the years, and I think 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:50.760 in two thousand nine was the last major revision, seventy 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.760 two page memorandum. Yeah, in February o nine. That's that 0:05:54.839 --> 0:06:00.320 clarified what the minimum substantive derogatory criteria was. What is Well, 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.560 it's a seventy two page or mirandum, but associating with 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.840 an known terrorist, suspected terrorists is not enough. There had 0:06:07.880 --> 0:06:11.599 to be evidence of that you actually supported terrorism, and 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:15.880 it generally requires more than a single single source, which 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.960 is good. Really Yeah, like, hey, this one guy said 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.080 you were so boom, you're on the list. So they 0:06:22.160 --> 0:06:25.960 refined it some over the year prior to two thousand nine. 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.440 I think it was a little more, a little easier 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:31.680 to get on there. And that's when a lot of 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:35.599 the press um was generated about this. A lot of 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:38.279 the media was up in arms or reporting about people 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.039 being up in arms. There are tons of stories and 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.200 all that. Yeah. Um, And you can kind of tell 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:47.520 like how open it was, um by just the sheer numbers. 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:49.720 Right in two thousand three, I think the thing opened 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:57.960 up for business, um with thousand people, three names. Yeah, 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.479 that was a no. Six two thousand six. Yeah, Now 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:04.960 there's over a million supposedly. See, that number is highly disputed. 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.560 So the a c l U says a million or more. Um. 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.720 A lot of people reported that, but that's just the 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.679 a c l USE estimate. The T s A says 0:07:13.840 --> 0:07:17.800 it's less than four hundred thousand. And they threw in 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:24.560 that of those people are foreign nationals and and even 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.880 in the country even they say, see I I can 0:07:26.920 --> 0:07:30.560 see them Like. That struck me as the same as 0:07:30.560 --> 0:07:32.600 saying like one of your buddies being like I'm ninety 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:37.080 nine nine nine percent positive. You know, I wonder how 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:39.720 how accurate that is. Yeah, it's hard to get stats 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:41.160 on this stuff because a lot of it is kept 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:45.800 under wraps for a good reason, including the criteria. Um 0:07:45.880 --> 0:07:48.840 who's on there? And yeah, like you said, for good reason, 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:54.040 there is. It's a very it's Orwellian circular logic. And 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:56.000 of course I think everyone who has play on this 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:58.000 knew that the word Orwellian was going to come up 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:02.520 at least once, knowing us right. But um, they are 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:05.960 saying that they can't release information on this list because 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.720 then you know how to beat the list. And I'm 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.880 a defender of civil liberties and I will even admit 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:16.200 that this is a tough situation because you can't just 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.720 do everything behind closed doors, but you also can't open 0:08:19.760 --> 0:08:22.280 it wide open because then it kind of defeats the 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.120 system in a lot of ways. So this is a 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.160 tough one. It is very tough when it comes to that, uh, 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:31.480 that number of the names on there. Um, it's not 0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:35.520 necessarily individual people. That's different spellings of single name. Yeah, 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:40.720 that's aliases of these people. So there could be a 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:45.319 fraction of that number of actual people that are on 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:48.959 this list, But there's all these different spellings or whatever. 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.640 Countries are on the list, not like entire countries, well 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.120 entire countries, but not saying your entire country is on 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:59.640 the list. It's just I think country from that country. Yeah, 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.640 then you then you, I think the red flag is raised. 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.720 Not necessarily, you're because Israel was on the list recently 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:08.839 and they said, oh, that was a big mistake. Israel 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.560 shouldn't be on the list obviously. So yeah, but that 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.040 just happened I think within the past few months, is there, right, 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:17.880 that would have made a great intro. Yeah, I like 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:21.800 your intro. Yes, So with nominating, right, he said, Now, 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.280 it takes more than one source to get you on there. 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:29.079 That's what they say. Apparently before that revision, UM, somebody 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.800 from the FBI, the n s A, the c i A, 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.559 the f d A, the SEC, pretty much any government 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:42.320 agency could say NASA, hey, yeah, hey, I think any 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:47.920 government agency, anybody from a government agency, UM could nominate you. 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.559 And you're nominated, right, yes, And that that means you're 0:09:51.600 --> 0:09:54.160 put before or you physically are, but your name is 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:57.520 put before the Terrorist Review and Examination Unit and they'd 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:01.000 start checking things out and then pass you along to 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.400 the Terrorist Screening Center and the watch list if you 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:08.000 are deemed by their criteria to be a threat. Right. 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:11.719 And the Terrorist Screening Center is a branch of the FBI, 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.960 and they're the ones who are responsible for um administering 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:21.480 this the watch list, right, um, and it's it's it's 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:25.000 most closely associated with flying. It's a no fly list, 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.440 is is what it's often called. Well, no, those are 0:10:27.480 --> 0:10:30.000 two different lists, oh are they? Yeah, there's a no 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.400 fly list, there's a selectee list, and then there's the 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:34.959 terrorism watch list. Okay, laying on me, Well, the no 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.200 fly list only has like five thousand people on it. Okay, 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:41.040 but it's it's different. Um, but if you're on the 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.720 no fly list, obviously you're also on the terrorism watch list, 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.240 right But I as I understand it, if you're on 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.840 the terrorism watch list, you may pop up when you 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:51.240 go through a t S A screening. Yeah. Yeah, so 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:53.679 like if you're on this terrorism watch So if you're 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:55.920 on a no fly list, like they they your name 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:59.160 pops up and they just take you to prison essentially. Well, 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:02.000 they do a range of things from take you away 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.840 to be investigated in first and never heard from again, 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.960 or the people have been arrested. Okay, so that's but 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:15.760 these are people who are probably like known terrorists or not. Okay, 0:11:15.800 --> 0:11:18.560 but on the no fly list, Yeah, both. That's what 0:11:18.640 --> 0:11:20.319 that's what created a lot of the problems. Is that 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:22.560 is that you know, like an eight year old boy 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:26.000 was on the no fly list and this lady researched 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.880 a Muslim woman from I can't remember where she's from, 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:35.120 but she was a Stanford duct toil candidate. And you 0:11:35.160 --> 0:11:36.920 can get placed on the no fly lists while you're 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.640 while you're on vacation, and then you can't come back 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:43.720 into the country. There are Army veterans stranded in Colombia 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:46.240 and other countries that can't come back because their name 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:50.040 is erroneously on the no fly list. And it takes 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.040 a long time to get it off. I would imagine 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:56.320 sixty seven days to get off the terrorist watch list. 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.440 That's the average. But I don't know about that. I 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:03.520 bet it takes more than that. Okay, Um, so chuck, 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:07.200 I guess with when you fly? Also, um, there's this 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:11.840 program called safe Flight that's administered by the Terrorists Screening 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:19.280 Center where every flight manifest is um checked against the lists. 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:21.679 That's good, it is good. That's the first step, I 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:26.679 gast um. But so the terrorist Screening centers there there 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:29.160 in charge. So are they in charge of the select 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.560 list and the no fly lists as well. It's all 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:36.599 under Homeland Security. Okay, um, but this is FBI, right okay, 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:41.160 so um, they they're maintaining these lists, but they're also 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:45.840 tracking the people who are on the list, hopefully the 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.360 right people. But if your name apparently is on the 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:54.920 terrorist watch list, there is a screen in northern Virginia. 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.160 No one knows where, well, no one can say where 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.440 anyone who knows, and you are a red dot on 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:04.280 that screen and you're tracked constantly apparently, Um, I don't 0:13:04.280 --> 0:13:06.280 know if the dot is read necessarily, but the color 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.679 changes depending on the length of time it's been since 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:13.520 you made contact or a law enforcement officer made contact 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.160 with you, like since the last time you flew, last 0:13:16.160 --> 0:13:18.360 time you got pulled over for a ticket, the last 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:22.720 time they came into your house, whatever, Um, the color changes. 0:13:22.840 --> 0:13:26.040 But there's someone who watches you, uh, when you get 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:29.040 pulled over and you're on this list, Well, if you 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:32.559 or I get pulled over, your name's run right if 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:36.120 it gets if it pops up, then the law enforcement 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.400 officers alerting the terrorist Screening Center. From what I read, 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:42.120 most of the time, the terrorist Screening Center already knows 0:13:42.160 --> 0:13:47.960 you just got pulled over. Yeah, well that's anto and 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.079 that's MPRS reporting too, And it was Dean and Temple 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.160 Raston who actually went to the center, So it's not 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:57.360 that's not like yeah, and I hope we don't come 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.200 across the sea and like, oh they shouldn't do like 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:01.440 police terrorists and things like that, because it's not the case. 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.120 I don't think so. Although John Lewis, the name John 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:07.600 Lewis was on the no fly list, John Lewis, he's uh. 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:10.920 I think he's still a representative here, isn't he. Yeah, Okay, 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:14.040 I think so. From from Georgia, from Atlanta. I believe 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.880 he was a civil rights leader as well, and his 0:14:17.000 --> 0:14:20.400 name was on there. He kept getting hassled going through 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:25.200 the airport. Um, and not because he was suspected of 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:29.640 any kind of terrorist activity, but because his name matched 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.080 one of the spellings of the name of somebody on 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:35.480 the terrorist watch list, right, as did every other John Lewis. 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.760 So right, So if you are, um, that's one good 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.240 way to find out that your name is likely on 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:46.920 the terrorist watch list is getting held up at the airport. 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.320 John Lewis isn't the only one. Very Famously, there was 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.880 a nun named Sister Glenn and McPhee right, And she 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:59.440 apparently spent a lot of time getting interrogated. Um so 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.840 much so the Council of Bishops called the White House 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.960 and said, you gotta take her off. How much was 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:06.760 she flying? Is what I wanted to know. I don't know, 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:08.800 since she's hassled a lot. It's like, didn't I didn't 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.200 know nuns like traveled that much. The sister of the 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.760 Flying Cross of the Flying Nuneah uh. And as I mentioned, 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.600 there's an eight year old famously in New York. And 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:20.120 even though they came out and said there are no 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.560 eight year olds on the list, it's a myth. There 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.000 is an eight year old on the list. I don't 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.160 know if he still is, but the parents said, now 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:28.960 he's right here, come meet him. He's a boy scout. 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:31.520 And the first time he was pulled aside and frist 0:15:31.800 --> 0:15:34.640 was when he was two wow, at an airport. Two 0:15:34.720 --> 0:15:37.080 years old on the terrorist watch list was first. Yeah, 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.680 pretty pretty neat. So that's led to a lot of 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:44.040 calls about UM reducing the watch list, making it uh 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:50.720 more UM focused. Yeah uh. And apparently it sounds like 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:55.120 Obama made those changes in two thousand nine, Right, what 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:56.760 what was that? What happened there? Well, what you were 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:59.800 talking about, like, it's the criteria's narrowed a lot more 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:02.320 like it takes two sources to get you on the list. 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.480 Just associating with somebody will keep you off the list. 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.720 And then, Um, I wonder if redress is gotten any easier. 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.600 I don't know, redresses the process of of like sort 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:17.640 of applying to get off the list. And um, that's 0:16:17.680 --> 0:16:20.080 for the terrorism watch list. Apparently the no fly list, 0:16:20.160 --> 0:16:23.720 there's not much of a process going on there, and 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:26.640 it's led to a lot of frustration from people like 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:31.000 John Lewis. But yeah, now you apply and they I 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:32.920 think you have to apply through it the agency. You 0:16:32.920 --> 0:16:35.800 can't just call the FBI or no, you can't call 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.360 Homeland Security. You have to apply through the agency that 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:41.040 gave you trouble, like the t s A or whoever it. 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:44.320 And then they give you what's called a redress number. 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:48.520 So when you book travel you you include that. Yeah, 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:52.680 and it's like it's basically like I've been cleared. There's proof. 0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:56.840 I'm sure you're not on any list. Then, um, so, Chuck, 0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:01.120 how do you get on this list? Aside from the 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.760 obvious of being a terror a known terrorist, or a 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:08.240 suspected terrorists, well appropriately suspected terrists. You could be, UM, 0:17:08.280 --> 0:17:11.720 a member of some sort of extremist organization, like even 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:14.680 a hardcore like environmental organization might land you on the list, 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:20.040 Like ELF, Yeah, what what are they? Earth Liberation Front? Yes, 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.719 they like to burn down subdivisions, UM that are built 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.600 over clear cut forests. Really, they like to burn down 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.520 any subdivision where any trees or sacrificed or whatever, you know, 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.040 the kind where they go in and cut all the 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:35.520 trees down, build everything and then go replant like little saplings, 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:39.240 those kind of subdivisions. ELF likes to go in before 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.000 they're populated and burn them all to the ground, really, 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:44.600 and then maybe leave a garage standing and spray paint 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:49.560 e LF on it. That's that's domestic terrorism, really, I mean, yeah, 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.360 this twelve the Order of the Twelve Monkeys, it is, 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:55.760 isn't it. Yeah? So yeah, if you remember ELF, if 0:17:55.800 --> 0:18:01.359 you're UM, like a member of I would imagine any 0:18:01.480 --> 0:18:04.840 group that's been deemed the hate group or an extremist group, 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:07.040 the domestic group, you might be on that list. You're 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.600 probably on the list. But again, I think most people 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:14.040 except that at the very least, Um, American citizens are 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.480 in the minority on the government terrorist watch list. Right, yeah, 0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.479 which is what I was trying to say, Which is 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:24.200 why it's easy for of the people or to say like, oh, 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.320 what's the big deal? Wait till you're one of those 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:29.399 first you know what I'm saying. Um, you found some 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:33.120 other ways to though, some like more mundane ways. Yeah, sadly, Um, 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:38.280 I shouldn't say sadly. I found it on Maxim. There's 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:41.719 some good magazine. Yes, there was some. Um, I just 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:43.520 did a Google search. It's not like I was like, 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.600 what does Maxim have to say about this? Right? Um? 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:49.800 There was There are four that I found that I 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:52.959 thought were pretty good. One is, um, searching using Google 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.920 well could get you flagged. We can be watched under 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.520 the Patriot Act. Certain was searching for certain terms. I 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.840 guess yeah, Okay, Um, we do a lot of research. Man, 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:04.919 that's kind of scary to think about. Well I imagine that, 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:08.080 Like if that's the case, then yeah, just just researching 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:13.639 for this podcast. Um, last minute flights Apparently after a 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.560 certain number of last minute flights, you will be flagged 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:21.359 and even just doing your your immediate flight, like just 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:23.640 the first time you do it, they're gonna pay extra 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:27.840 attention to you because you're booking a last minute flight. Um. 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:31.200 And apparently patterns the government loves patterns, and if you're 0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:34.919 operating within a normal pattern, you're likely going to be 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:40.280 less scrutinized. Um. When you suddenly book of last minute flight, 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:43.360 then they're gonna be like, wait, that's abnormal and we're 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:45.600 gonna pay attention to you. Or if you pay with cash, 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:48.800 that's abnormal, we're gonna pay attention to you. There there's 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:54.440 certain patterns that the normal, average person does without even thinking, um, 0:19:54.480 --> 0:19:58.119 and when you act outside of that, then you're gonna 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:04.720 invite more scrutiny. Um. Apparently email as well is also 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:07.680 under the Patriot Act likes to be watched, so if 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.320 you say something stupid on there, so basically you and 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:16.240 I are on the list. Uh. They also the Homeland 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.080 Security this week said that the terror watch list is 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:23.440 exempt from the Privacy Act, which was brought about after Watergate. 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:28.560 It basically permit citizens to obtain files about them with 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.160 the intent of correcting it, which is what this would 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:33.360 be all about. And they said, no, we're not under 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.640 the Privacy Act, and that was that's the biggest problem 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:40.240 with a c l u IS is put a system 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.560 in place. First of all, like you said, they think 0:20:42.560 --> 0:20:48.600 it's bloated and thirty two thousand nine Justice Department Inspector 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:52.880 General report, Yeah, I found that thirty of the nominations 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:57.040 to the lists were outdated. So it's like it's counterproductive. 0:20:57.160 --> 0:20:59.080 Even it's not like they're just saying it's not fair, 0:20:59.480 --> 0:21:01.280 it's not in the job that it should be doing 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:03.520 if it's bloated. But their whole point is just have 0:21:03.560 --> 0:21:07.000 a system in place, a transparent system in place where 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:10.720 you can go. I mean, I guess redresses that for 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:12.520 the terrorism watch list, but it doesn't sound like a 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:14.919 very good system. Well, they also have a really big 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:20.280 um bone of contention in that this is technically unconstitutional. 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.840 There's something um against unlawful search and seizure, search and 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:28.399 seizure without due process or at least probable cause. And 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:30.639 if you're an eight year old boy scout, there's really 0:21:30.680 --> 0:21:34.880 no way of justifying the fact that you're being searched 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:39.639 without probable cause. You know, just because some just because 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:43.600 there's terrorists out there doesn't give probable cause to some 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:48.120 individual who's not a terrorist to be searched. It's kind 0:21:48.160 --> 0:21:51.880 of that simple. Yeah. But again, as you say, it's 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:54.399 really tough to to say, all, we need to just 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.280 do away with this. I just I don't think that's 0:21:57.280 --> 0:21:59.480 the cases. Think there's better ways to do it. Yeah. 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:01.800 On this had a couple of more startling things on 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:05.480 the state level. You know, you can't profile. Federal policies 0:22:05.520 --> 0:22:07.680 prohibit that, and you can't on the state level either, 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:12.600 but they allow states to. Um, they have different criteria 0:22:12.680 --> 0:22:15.560 for each state on what is deemed suspicious at least 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:19.080 not necessarily this will get you nominated, but red flags 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:24.600 at least and uh in Ohio, Um, any immersion and 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:28.480 I'm sorry, immersion in a purely Muslim environment could get 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:32.359 you red flagged. Uh. They advise landlords in some states 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:35.920 to be alert on tenants who preferred ground floor apartments 0:22:35.920 --> 0:22:40.480 and who have little furniture. And then uh, anyone the 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:49.000 study of technical subjects like engineering, just engineering. Huh. It's interesting. Um. 0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:51.280 Do you remember when the Patriot Act was first being 0:22:52.119 --> 0:22:56.960 discussed for the three minutes Um. One of the one 0:22:57.000 --> 0:22:59.360 of the mandates in it was that postal employees were 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:03.080 expected to spy and report on people on their route. 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:06.280 And the post office actually pushed back and said we're 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:08.360 not doing that. Oh yeah, that's right, and they won. 0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:10.360 It was taken out, but it was in there like 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:14.320 they wanted to deploy the postal service as a as 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:18.240 domestic spies. They're like, dude, we just don't want to 0:23:18.280 --> 0:23:21.879 get bit by dogs. Just we've got enough on her 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:25.080 plate as it is. I gotta redress stat for you 0:23:25.119 --> 0:23:27.600 to alright that Conger found. This is written by Kristen 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:30.640 Konger from Stuff Mom Never told you. Yeah, and she's 0:23:30.680 --> 0:23:33.399 got a new host. We should mention, yes, new co 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:36.120 host Molly is no longer there and she and they're 0:23:36.119 --> 0:23:37.800