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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know

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Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot Com. Hey, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Chuck Show. I'm Josh with me always of course

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Speaker 1: this Chuck Charles w Chucker's Bryant. That's weird. It sounded

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Speaker 1: the Chuck Show. It sounds like you said the Chuck Show.

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Speaker 1: You should be Chuck Show. Did you hear at that time?

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Speaker 1: I did, How you do? Chuck? Get out of here?

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Speaker 1: You fire? I'm waiting for this day for that would

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Speaker 1: be awful and such like I don't even want to

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Speaker 1: say relief. That sounds awful, but you know how it is.

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Speaker 1: It would be devastating and also like, ah, my brain

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Speaker 1: can relax, and then the next day I'd be all

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Speaker 1: upset again. I know what you're talking about. What I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: I used to have an alternative weekly newspaper, and whenever

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Speaker 1: we were up on deadline, deadline, deadline, deadline, and we'd

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Speaker 1: missed the deadline, there was a sense of abject failure

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Speaker 1: that was encapsulated by the greatest sense of relief you

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Speaker 1: ever experienced. I don't want to I know exactly what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. I don't think I feel relieved here

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Speaker 1: because we got this. We got this all right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: say reassure me again, you got it good? Um, Chuck Josh. Okay,

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Speaker 1: we should probably chill out a little bit because what

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Speaker 1: we're about to talk about is uh, to some a

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Speaker 1: a necessary evil. To others, it's brain dead national security

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Speaker 1: that we should have been doing since seventeen seven. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And to others, it's an egregious affront to civil liberties

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Speaker 1: of citizens. Yeah, but you know what I found. I

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Speaker 1: did some research on the a c l You. I

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Speaker 1: haven't found anyone that says like we shouldn't have a

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Speaker 1: watch list. No, but it's just like, hey, if you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have a watch list, you're gonna you're gonna do

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Speaker 1: it better than this. Yes, from the a c l

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Speaker 1: U as well. Um, And I think everybody just assumed

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Speaker 1: I was talking about the A c l U and

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Speaker 1: I said that some people find it to civil liberties. Um.

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Speaker 1: I was when we were researching this, like I had

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Speaker 1: this um little tick in the back of my head,

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Speaker 1: right and I was burning and saying like there was

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Speaker 1: something about nine eleven and I was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there were all these different warnings, all these different agencies

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Speaker 1: had information about al Qaeda. Apparently Bush was briefed before,

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Speaker 1: like the month before in the New York Times reported

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Speaker 1: back in two thousand four, Um, and it Alkada was

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Speaker 1: being watched. There. We were aware that there was a

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Speaker 1: hijacking plot, and they are all of these people, most

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Speaker 1: of them at least were on watch lists. But the

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Speaker 1: problem was is all of these agencies were in the

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Speaker 1: midst of like some serious turf wars, and no one

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Speaker 1: was talking to one another, No agency was sharing this

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Speaker 1: information with one another, which kind of part of the

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Speaker 1: course from what I understand. Yeah, but I think that

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Speaker 1: changed in large part after nine eleven. Right, if it

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Speaker 1: didn't change in spirit, at the very least it changed

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Speaker 1: in practice on paper because all those different lists after

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Speaker 1: nine eleven happened were consolidated pretty quickly. After nine eleven happened. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think May of two thousand three, Bush signed something

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Speaker 1: called Homeland Security Presidential Directive six, and the first one,

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Speaker 1: signed in two thousand one, I believe, established Homeland Security

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Speaker 1: as an agency. Two years later he signed six basically

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Speaker 1: saying have you read it, uh, two, three, four and

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Speaker 1: five or six? Six, is there, two, four and five,

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Speaker 1: there's a there's one. It loses focused towards the end.

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Speaker 1: The last one was signed on bushes last day in office,

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Speaker 1: and uh, it basically says all those international treaties we

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Speaker 1: signed that say the Arctic and the Antarctic are belonged

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Speaker 1: to everybody. No one can claim on we were invoked

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Speaker 1: a part about the Arctic. We decided that the US

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Speaker 1: is quote an Arctic nation and therefore it has to

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Speaker 1: protect its Arctic interests, specifically natural resources as a matter

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Speaker 1: of national security. Yeah, so it kind of lost focused

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Speaker 1: for the end. But early on with with the Presidential

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Speaker 1: Directive six that said we need to take all of

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Speaker 1: these watch lists and create a central watch list, and

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Speaker 1: we need to actually administer it or administrate it properly.

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Speaker 1: And that created chuck, the consolidated a terrorist watch list.

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Speaker 1: Because it's consolidated, it makes a lot of So that's

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Speaker 1: the government list that everyone is long joked about. There

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Speaker 1: were lists before were but the one that everybody thought

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Speaker 1: about prior to two thousand one or two thousand three,

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Speaker 1: um didn't bear any resemblance to this one. This is

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Speaker 1: the list. Anyone who's ever been even remotely suspected of

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Speaker 1: being a terrorist. What's the language, um, engaging in terrorist activities? Right, Uh,

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Speaker 1: suspected to have engaged in conduct constituting in preparation for

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Speaker 1: an aid of or related to terrorism. Yes, And apparently

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Speaker 1: associating with a known terrorists isn't enough to get you

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Speaker 1: on that list. Yeah, because after September eleven, there were

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Speaker 1: not many guidelines. It was just sort of let's just

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Speaker 1: put a bunch of names on the list. I mean,

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Speaker 1: not that will annially obviously, but um, they realized they

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Speaker 1: needed to refine it over the years, and I think

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Speaker 1: in two thousand nine was the last major revision, seventy

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Speaker 1: two page memorandum. Yeah, in February o nine. That's that

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Speaker 1: clarified what the minimum substantive derogatory criteria was. What is Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a seventy two page or mirandum, but associating with

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Speaker 1: an known terrorist, suspected terrorists is not enough. There had

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Speaker 1: to be evidence of that you actually supported terrorism, and

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Speaker 1: it generally requires more than a single single source, which

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Speaker 1: is good. Really Yeah, like, hey, this one guy said

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Speaker 1: you were so boom, you're on the list. So they

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Speaker 1: refined it some over the year prior to two thousand nine.

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Speaker 1: I think it was a little more, a little easier

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Speaker 1: to get on there. And that's when a lot of

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Speaker 1: the press um was generated about this. A lot of

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Speaker 1: the media was up in arms or reporting about people

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Speaker 1: being up in arms. There are tons of stories and

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Speaker 1: all that. Yeah. Um, And you can kind of tell

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Speaker 1: like how open it was, um by just the sheer numbers.

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Speaker 1: Right in two thousand three, I think the thing opened

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Speaker 1: up for business, um with thousand people, three names. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was a no. Six two thousand six. Yeah, Now

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Speaker 1: there's over a million supposedly. See, that number is highly disputed.

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Speaker 1: So the a c l U says a million or more. Um.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people reported that, but that's just the

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Speaker 1: a c l USE estimate. The T s A says

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Speaker 1: it's less than four hundred thousand. And they threw in

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Speaker 1: that of those people are foreign nationals and and even

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Speaker 1: in the country even they say, see I I can

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Speaker 1: see them Like. That struck me as the same as

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Speaker 1: saying like one of your buddies being like I'm ninety

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Speaker 1: nine nine nine percent positive. You know, I wonder how

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Speaker 1: how accurate that is. Yeah, it's hard to get stats

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Speaker 1: on this stuff because a lot of it is kept

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Speaker 1: under wraps for a good reason, including the criteria. Um

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Speaker 1: who's on there? And yeah, like you said, for good reason,

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Speaker 1: there is. It's a very it's Orwellian circular logic. And

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Speaker 1: of course I think everyone who has play on this

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Speaker 1: knew that the word Orwellian was going to come up

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Speaker 1: at least once, knowing us right. But um, they are

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Speaker 1: saying that they can't release information on this list because

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Speaker 1: then you know how to beat the list. And I'm

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Speaker 1: a defender of civil liberties and I will even admit

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Speaker 1: that this is a tough situation because you can't just

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Speaker 1: do everything behind closed doors, but you also can't open

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Speaker 1: it wide open because then it kind of defeats the

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Speaker 1: system in a lot of ways. So this is a

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Speaker 1: tough one. It is very tough when it comes to that, uh,

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Speaker 1: that number of the names on there. Um, it's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily individual people. That's different spellings of single name. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's aliases of these people. So there could be a

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Speaker 1: fraction of that number of actual people that are on

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Speaker 1: this list, But there's all these different spellings or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Countries are on the list, not like entire countries, well

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Speaker 1: entire countries, but not saying your entire country is on

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Speaker 1: the list. It's just I think country from that country. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: then you then you, I think the red flag is raised.

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Speaker 1: Not necessarily, you're because Israel was on the list recently

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Speaker 1: and they said, oh, that was a big mistake. Israel

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Speaker 1: shouldn't be on the list obviously. So yeah, but that

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Speaker 1: just happened I think within the past few months, is there, right,

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Speaker 1: that would have made a great intro. Yeah, I like

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Speaker 1: your intro. Yes, So with nominating, right, he said, Now,

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Speaker 1: it takes more than one source to get you on there.

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Speaker 1: That's what they say. Apparently before that revision, UM, somebody

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Speaker 1: from the FBI, the n s A, the c i A,

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Speaker 1: the f d A, the SEC, pretty much any government

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Speaker 1: agency could say NASA, hey, yeah, hey, I think any

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Speaker 1: government agency, anybody from a government agency, UM could nominate you.

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Speaker 1: And you're nominated, right, yes, And that that means you're

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Speaker 1: put before or you physically are, but your name is

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Speaker 1: put before the Terrorist Review and Examination Unit and they'd

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Speaker 1: start checking things out and then pass you along to

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Speaker 1: the Terrorist Screening Center and the watch list if you

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Speaker 1: are deemed by their criteria to be a threat. Right.

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Speaker 1: And the Terrorist Screening Center is a branch of the FBI,

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Speaker 1: and they're the ones who are responsible for um administering

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Speaker 1: this the watch list, right, um, and it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: most closely associated with flying. It's a no fly list,

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Speaker 1: is is what it's often called. Well, no, those are

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Speaker 1: two different lists, oh are they? Yeah, there's a no

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Speaker 1: fly list, there's a selectee list, and then there's the

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Speaker 1: terrorism watch list. Okay, laying on me, Well, the no

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Speaker 1: fly list only has like five thousand people on it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's different. Um, but if you're on the

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Speaker 1: no fly list, obviously you're also on the terrorism watch list,

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Speaker 1: right But I as I understand it, if you're on

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Speaker 1: the terrorism watch list, you may pop up when you

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Speaker 1: go through a t S A screening. Yeah. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: like if you're on this terrorism watch So if you're

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Speaker 1: on a no fly list, like they they your name

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Speaker 1: pops up and they just take you to prison essentially. Well,

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Speaker 1: they do a range of things from take you away

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Speaker 1: to be investigated in first and never heard from again,

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Speaker 1: or the people have been arrested. Okay, so that's but

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Speaker 1: these are people who are probably like known terrorists or not. Okay,

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Speaker 1: but on the no fly list, Yeah, both. That's what

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Speaker 1: that's what created a lot of the problems. Is that

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Speaker 1: is that you know, like an eight year old boy

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Speaker 1: was on the no fly list and this lady researched

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Speaker 1: a Muslim woman from I can't remember where she's from,

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Speaker 1: but she was a Stanford duct toil candidate. And you

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Speaker 1: can get placed on the no fly lists while you're

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Speaker 1: while you're on vacation, and then you can't come back

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Speaker 1: into the country. There are Army veterans stranded in Colombia

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Speaker 1: and other countries that can't come back because their name

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Speaker 1: is erroneously on the no fly list. And it takes

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Speaker 1: a long time to get it off. I would imagine

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Speaker 1: sixty seven days to get off the terrorist watch list.

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Speaker 1: That's the average. But I don't know about that. I

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Speaker 1: bet it takes more than that. Okay, Um, so chuck,

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Speaker 1: I guess with when you fly? Also, um, there's this

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Speaker 1: program called safe Flight that's administered by the Terrorists Screening

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Speaker 1: Center where every flight manifest is um checked against the lists.

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Speaker 1: That's good, it is good. That's the first step, I

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Speaker 1: gast um. But so the terrorist Screening centers there there

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Speaker 1: in charge. So are they in charge of the select

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Speaker 1: list and the no fly lists as well. It's all

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Speaker 1: under Homeland Security. Okay, um, but this is FBI, right okay,

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Speaker 1: so um, they they're maintaining these lists, but they're also

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Speaker 1: tracking the people who are on the list, hopefully the

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Speaker 1: right people. But if your name apparently is on the

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Speaker 1: terrorist watch list, there is a screen in northern Virginia.

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Speaker 1: No one knows where, well, no one can say where

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Speaker 1: anyone who knows, and you are a red dot on

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Speaker 1: that screen and you're tracked constantly apparently, Um, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if the dot is read necessarily, but the color

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Speaker 1: changes depending on the length of time it's been since

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Speaker 1: you made contact or a law enforcement officer made contact

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Speaker 1: with you, like since the last time you flew, last

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Speaker 1: time you got pulled over for a ticket, the last

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Speaker 1: time they came into your house, whatever, Um, the color changes.

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Speaker 1: But there's someone who watches you, uh, when you get

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Speaker 1: pulled over and you're on this list, Well, if you

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Speaker 1: or I get pulled over, your name's run right if

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Speaker 1: it gets if it pops up, then the law enforcement

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Speaker 1: officers alerting the terrorist Screening Center. From what I read,

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Speaker 1: most of the time, the terrorist Screening Center already knows

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Speaker 1: you just got pulled over. Yeah, well that's anto and

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Speaker 1: that's MPRS reporting too, And it was Dean and Temple

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Speaker 1: Raston who actually went to the center, So it's not

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Speaker 1: that's not like yeah, and I hope we don't come

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Speaker 1: across the sea and like, oh they shouldn't do like

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Speaker 1: police terrorists and things like that, because it's not the case.

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Speaker 1: I don't think so. Although John Lewis, the name John

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Speaker 1: Lewis was on the no fly list, John Lewis, he's uh.

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Speaker 1: I think he's still a representative here, isn't he. Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I think so. From from Georgia, from Atlanta. I believe

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Speaker 1: he was a civil rights leader as well, and his

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Speaker 1: name was on there. He kept getting hassled going through

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Speaker 1: the airport. Um, and not because he was suspected of

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Speaker 1: any kind of terrorist activity, but because his name matched

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Speaker 1: one of the spellings of the name of somebody on

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Speaker 1: the terrorist watch list, right, as did every other John Lewis.

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Speaker 1: So right, So if you are, um, that's one good

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Speaker 1: way to find out that your name is likely on

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Speaker 1: the terrorist watch list is getting held up at the airport.

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Speaker 1: John Lewis isn't the only one. Very Famously, there was

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Speaker 1: a nun named Sister Glenn and McPhee right, And she

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Speaker 1: apparently spent a lot of time getting interrogated. Um so

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Speaker 1: much so the Council of Bishops called the White House

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Speaker 1: and said, you gotta take her off. How much was

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Speaker 1: she flying? Is what I wanted to know. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: since she's hassled a lot. It's like, didn't I didn't

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Speaker 1: know nuns like traveled that much. The sister of the

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Speaker 1: Flying Cross of the Flying Nuneah uh. And as I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: there's an eight year old famously in New York. And

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Speaker 1: even though they came out and said there are no

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Speaker 1: eight year olds on the list, it's a myth. There

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Speaker 1: is an eight year old on the list. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if he still is, but the parents said, now

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Speaker 1: he's right here, come meet him. He's a boy scout.

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Speaker 1: And the first time he was pulled aside and frist

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Speaker 1: was when he was two wow, at an airport. Two

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Speaker 1: years old on the terrorist watch list was first. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty neat. So that's led to a lot of

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Speaker 1: calls about UM reducing the watch list, making it uh

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Speaker 1: more UM focused. Yeah uh. And apparently it sounds like

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Speaker 1: Obama made those changes in two thousand nine, Right, what

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Speaker 1: what was that? What happened there? Well, what you were

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Speaker 1: talking about, like, it's the criteria's narrowed a lot more

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Speaker 1: like it takes two sources to get you on the list.

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Speaker 1: Just associating with somebody will keep you off the list.

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Speaker 1: And then, Um, I wonder if redress is gotten any easier.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, redresses the process of of like sort

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Speaker 1: of applying to get off the list. And um, that's

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Speaker 1: for the terrorism watch list. Apparently the no fly list,

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Speaker 1: there's not much of a process going on there, and

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Speaker 1: it's led to a lot of frustration from people like

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Speaker 1: John Lewis. But yeah, now you apply and they I

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Speaker 1: think you have to apply through it the agency. You

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Speaker 1: can't just call the FBI or no, you can't call

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Speaker 1: Homeland Security. You have to apply through the agency that

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Speaker 1: gave you trouble, like the t s A or whoever it.

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Speaker 1: And then they give you what's called a redress number.

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Speaker 1: So when you book travel you you include that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's like it's basically like I've been cleared. There's proof.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you're not on any list. Then, um, so, Chuck,

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Speaker 1: how do you get on this list? Aside from the

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Speaker 1: obvious of being a terror a known terrorist, or a

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Speaker 1: suspected terrorists, well appropriately suspected terrists. You could be, UM,

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Speaker 1: a member of some sort of extremist organization, like even

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Speaker 1: a hardcore like environmental organization might land you on the list,

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Speaker 1: Like ELF, Yeah, what what are they? Earth Liberation Front? Yes,

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Speaker 1: they like to burn down subdivisions, UM that are built

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Speaker 1: over clear cut forests. Really, they like to burn down

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Speaker 1: any subdivision where any trees or sacrificed or whatever, you know,

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Speaker 1: the kind where they go in and cut all the

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Speaker 1: trees down, build everything and then go replant like little saplings,

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Speaker 1: those kind of subdivisions. ELF likes to go in before

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Speaker 1: they're populated and burn them all to the ground, really,

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Speaker 1: and then maybe leave a garage standing and spray paint

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Speaker 1: e LF on it. That's that's domestic terrorism, really, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this twelve the Order of the Twelve Monkeys, it is,

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Speaker 1: isn't it. Yeah? So yeah, if you remember ELF, if

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Speaker 1: you're UM, like a member of I would imagine any

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Speaker 1: group that's been deemed the hate group or an extremist group,

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Speaker 1: the domestic group, you might be on that list. You're

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Speaker 1: probably on the list. But again, I think most people

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Speaker 1: except that at the very least, Um, American citizens are

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Speaker 1: in the minority on the government terrorist watch list. Right, yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is what I was trying to say, Which is

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Speaker 1: why it's easy for of the people or to say like, oh,

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Speaker 1: what's the big deal? Wait till you're one of those

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Speaker 1: first you know what I'm saying. Um, you found some

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Speaker 1: other ways to though, some like more mundane ways. Yeah, sadly, Um,

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Speaker 1: I shouldn't say sadly. I found it on Maxim. There's

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Speaker 1: some good magazine. Yes, there was some. Um, I just

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Speaker 1: did a Google search. It's not like I was like,

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Speaker 1: what does Maxim have to say about this? Right? Um?

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Speaker 1: There was There are four that I found that I

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Speaker 1: thought were pretty good. One is, um, searching using Google

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Speaker 1: well could get you flagged. We can be watched under

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Speaker 1: the Patriot Act. Certain was searching for certain terms. I

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Speaker 1: guess yeah, Okay, Um, we do a lot of research. Man,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of scary to think about. Well I imagine that,

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Speaker 1: Like if that's the case, then yeah, just just researching

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Speaker 1: for this podcast. Um, last minute flights Apparently after a

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Speaker 1: certain number of last minute flights, you will be flagged

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Speaker 1: and even just doing your your immediate flight, like just

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Speaker 1: the first time you do it, they're gonna pay extra

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Speaker 1: attention to you because you're booking a last minute flight. Um.

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Speaker 1: And apparently patterns the government loves patterns, and if you're

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Speaker 1: operating within a normal pattern, you're likely going to be

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Speaker 1: less scrutinized. Um. When you suddenly book of last minute flight,

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Speaker 1: then they're gonna be like, wait, that's abnormal and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna pay attention to you. Or if you pay with cash,

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Speaker 1: that's abnormal, we're gonna pay attention to you. There there's

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Speaker 1: certain patterns that the normal, average person does without even thinking, um,

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Speaker 1: and when you act outside of that, then you're gonna

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Speaker 1: invite more scrutiny. Um. Apparently email as well is also

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Speaker 1: under the Patriot Act likes to be watched, so if

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Speaker 1: you say something stupid on there, so basically you and

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Speaker 1: I are on the list. Uh. They also the Homeland

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Speaker 1: Security this week said that the terror watch list is

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Speaker 1: exempt from the Privacy Act, which was brought about after Watergate.

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Speaker 1: It basically permit citizens to obtain files about them with

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Speaker 1: the intent of correcting it, which is what this would

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Speaker 1: be all about. And they said, no, we're not under

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Speaker 1: the Privacy Act, and that was that's the biggest problem

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Speaker 1: with a c l u IS is put a system

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Speaker 1: in place. First of all, like you said, they think

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Speaker 1: it's bloated and thirty two thousand nine Justice Department Inspector

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Speaker 1: General report, Yeah, I found that thirty of the nominations

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Speaker 1: to the lists were outdated. So it's like it's counterproductive.

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Speaker 1: Even it's not like they're just saying it's not fair,

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Speaker 1: it's not in the job that it should be doing

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Speaker 1: if it's bloated. But their whole point is just have

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Speaker 1: a system in place, a transparent system in place where

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Speaker 1: you can go. I mean, I guess redresses that for

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Speaker 1: the terrorism watch list, but it doesn't sound like a

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Speaker 1: very good system. Well, they also have a really big

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Speaker 1: um bone of contention in that this is technically unconstitutional.

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Speaker 1: There's something um against unlawful search and seizure, search and

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Speaker 1: seizure without due process or at least probable cause. And

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Speaker 1: if you're an eight year old boy scout, there's really

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Speaker 1: no way of justifying the fact that you're being searched

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Speaker 1: without probable cause. You know, just because some just because

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Speaker 1: there's terrorists out there doesn't give probable cause to some

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Speaker 1: individual who's not a terrorist to be searched. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of that simple. Yeah. But again, as you say, it's

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Speaker 1: really tough to to say, all, we need to just

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Speaker 1: do away with this. I just I don't think that's

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Speaker 1: the cases. Think there's better ways to do it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: On this had a couple of more startling things on

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Speaker 1: the state level. You know, you can't profile. Federal policies

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Speaker 1: prohibit that, and you can't on the state level either,

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Speaker 1: but they allow states to. Um, they have different criteria

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Speaker 1: for each state on what is deemed suspicious at least

379
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Speaker 1: not necessarily this will get you nominated, but red flags

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Speaker 1: at least and uh in Ohio, Um, any immersion and

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, immersion in a purely Muslim environment could get

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Speaker 1: you red flagged. Uh. They advise landlords in some states

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Speaker 1: to be alert on tenants who preferred ground floor apartments

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Speaker 1: and who have little furniture. And then uh, anyone the

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Speaker 1: study of technical subjects like engineering, just engineering. Huh. It's interesting. Um.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when the Patriot Act was first being

387
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Speaker 1: discussed for the three minutes Um. One of the one

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Speaker 1: of the mandates in it was that postal employees were

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Speaker 1: expected to spy and report on people on their route.

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Speaker 1: And the post office actually pushed back and said we're

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Speaker 1: not doing that. Oh yeah, that's right, and they won.

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Speaker 1: It was taken out, but it was in there like

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Speaker 1: they wanted to deploy the postal service as a as

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Speaker 1: domestic spies. They're like, dude, we just don't want to

395
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Speaker 1: get bit by dogs. Just we've got enough on her

396
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Speaker 1: plate as it is. I gotta redress stat for you

397
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Speaker 1: to alright that Conger found. This is written by Kristen

398
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Speaker 1: Konger from Stuff Mom Never told you. Yeah, and she's

399
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Speaker 1: got a new host. We should mention, yes, new co

400
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Speaker 1: host Molly is no longer there and she and they're

401
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Speaker 1: doing a great job with you know, and best of

402
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Speaker 1: elect to Molly. Of course she's she's writing her heart

403
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Speaker 1: out right now. Yeah, sitting right next to you. Anyway. Uh.

404
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Speaker 1: Conger found this stat and from two thousand five to

405
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Speaker 1: two thousand seven, thirty five of people who complained that

406
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Speaker 1: we're on the redress list I guess filed for redress,

407
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Speaker 1: were kept on the list, were either had lower security

408
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Speaker 1: or removed. And that's only how many. The other twenty

409
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Speaker 1: were never heard from. Again, That's what I wondered it

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Speaker 1: didn't have anything about the other And I mean it's

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Speaker 1: funny and all that, like it's but again, it would

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Speaker 1: stink if you're on that accidentally. But at the same time,

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Speaker 1: we're also talking about the same government that operated like

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Speaker 1: secret prisons overseas two for a while. Yeah. Or if

415
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Speaker 1: you're one of these veterans that's stuck in Colombia, who

416
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Speaker 1: are you talking about. There's this one a c l

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Speaker 1: U article I mentioned found there are two Army veterans

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Speaker 1: that are stuck outside the United States. And then the

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Speaker 1: New York Times article was that lady with her fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old daughter was stuck in Malaysia for a while,

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Speaker 1: and a UK officer, because different countries have their own

422
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Speaker 1: watch list and Britain has one, he got his wife

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Speaker 1: put on the list so she couldn't come home. Wow,

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00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: she's been in Turkey for three years until they found

425
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: out about it. Wow, And then he was fired, like

426
00:24:58,480 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 1: he was set to get promoted, and they were like,

427
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: wait a minute, they're doing their research. They're like, your

428
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: wife's on the the no fly list and he's like, what, bloy,

429
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 1: She's been in Turkey for three years. So that's funny.

430
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: It's an interesting way to get out of whatever he

431
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,360
Speaker 1: didn't want to do. Yeah, taking out the garbage, that's

432
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 1: what it was. He just got t trash piled up.

433
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: Now he's like Sylvia, Sylvia plaths no shel Silverstein poem

434
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: where the girl doesn't want to take the garbage out. Yeah,

435
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 1: Sylvia's something silver suits now or something like that. Yeah, well, um,

436
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,320
Speaker 1: and then chuck. Lastly, what do you want to like

437
00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: if you want to know? Obviously we're not on the list,

438
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 1: or we weren't the last time we flew, because we flew, Um,

439
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: nobody took us aside. Although, um, you and I now

440
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,639
Speaker 1: always get pat downs. Really, I just don't trust that

441
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 1: backscatter thing. I don't think everybody knows enough about it.

442
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure it could be fine. Question, and you request

443
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 1: the path every time? Yeah, interesting, And I have to

444
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: say they almost never use the metal detector anymore never,

445
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: so Yeah, we always see the pat down now, and

446
00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: it's stice you get to know the t s A

447
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:19,679
Speaker 1: Agent a lot more more closely, as they're padding you

448
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: down with the backside of their hands and telling you

449
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,840
Speaker 1: what they're doing ahead of time. It's like I'm going

450
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: to set your waist how to build up a sense

451
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 1: of tension, don't you. Um, so what do you if

452
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,640
Speaker 1: you if you want to know if you're on this list,

453
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: you can just fly right, try to go fly. That's

454
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 1: gonna do something. It is if you're if you've been

455
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: pulled over and not detained UM for like speeding or

456
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: something like that, if you've just gotten a standard ticket,

457
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: your your name is not on this list, not on

458
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 1: this list, UM, and if you are, you can uh

459
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: apply for information about yourself, not through the terrorist watch list,

460
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: but UM through something called the UM specifically Designated Nationals

461
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: and Black Persons list that the Treasury has that means

462
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 1: you can't do business right exactly, you can't get alone,

463
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: you can't Yeah, you can't do business with these people.

464
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 1: It's it's a way of freezing somebody out of dealing

465
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 1: in the United States, making money in the United States,

466
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: usually because there's some sort of criminal right. If your

467
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: name is on that list, there may be a high

468
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: likelihood that you are on the terrorist watch list. And

469
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: even if you're not, you want to get your name

470
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: off that list because if you want to do business, yeah,

471
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:39,639
Speaker 1: eventually somebody's gonna be like, I can't loan you this money, Josh,

472
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 1: I thought it was good. It was not good. I

473
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 1: wasn't prepared. I think you saved us. No, I think

474
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: this was It always gets so tricky with these uh

475
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: Civil Liberties podcasts because it's you want it both ways.

476
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 1: You don't want terrorists coming into the country, but you

477
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: also don't want your friend who's just a friendly Muslim

478
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 1: to be on the list. Alright, stricky ground. I don't

479
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: know how I feel about it, you, uh, personally between

480
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:13,360
Speaker 1: you and me, if any other um that as long

481
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: as it's amounting to little more than an inconvenience and

482
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: there's still pressure to make it better, to do a

483
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: better job of this, I'm I'm for the list before

484
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 1: I'm maintaining a list, but being stuck in another country

485
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 1: is yeah. Again, it's my personal experience until some terrorists

486
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: named Josh Clark ends up on the list, and I'm

487
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: j Smith from Iowa. Uh. If you want to know

488
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: more about the Terrorists watch List and probably end up

489
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: on the Terrorists watch List yourself, j k um, you

490
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,400
Speaker 1: can type in government watch list in the search bar

491
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. UM. You can also

492
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: probably search that on maxim too. It'll bring up some stuff. Um,

493
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,200
Speaker 1: and since I said axim, that means it's time for

494
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 1: listener mail. I thought it was gonna be time for

495
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,160
Speaker 1: top ten sexiest broad on reality TV. I'm sure it

496
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: is on Maxim if this is fro a Maxim podcast,

497
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: for sure. What I can't believe they had. I bet

498
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: you that article that they had had like not clip art,

499
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: but the stock photo of some guy like kind of

500
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 1: half drunk on a plane, some bachelor like arguing with

501
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,719
Speaker 1: the steward. That's that's in um the uh it's in

502
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: the last one about email. That's saying that like if

503
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: the plane on the way to spring break is delayed,

504
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: you feel like bomb or fire so they can get

505
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: off and then write drink Yeah, which is a very

506
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 1: maxim thing to do. That's a maximum if I ever

507
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: heard one. All right, Josh, I'm gonna call this. Did

508
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 1: you call for the listener mail? Yeah? Here is do

509
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: we hear the day? Yeah it was in there. Someone

510
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 1: let me call this very sweet email from a from

511
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: a sister about her sister. Oh. I was hoping we

512
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: would do this fine items se. I've been meaning to

513
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: write for a while now, but haven't found an episode.

514
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: I thought it could contribute to Then I realized how

515
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: much the entire podcast means to me. My twin sister

516
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: is married to a marine. They move all over the country.

517
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,560
Speaker 1: She's currently in Hawaii. We miss each other dearly, and

518
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 1: it may sound funny, but your show makes us feel

519
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: a little closer. We especially enjoyed the Shrunken Heads episode.

520
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: You've had a good flow, and we're both very witty.

521
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 1: We even call each other skull bag as an inside joke. Uh.

522
00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: The Spam episode made us laugh. My sister's name is

523
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: Towards Tony Ann. In high school, she was nicknamed Tony

524
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,560
Speaker 1: Spam because of the rhyme and her affinity for the

525
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: can pork broughtuct. She actually went to Spam Jam last spring,

526
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: I guess in Hawaii, of course, and was a little

527
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: disappointed that it wasn't as much fun as she expected.

528
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: That's a very serious event, so is it. I don't

529
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: know what she was expecting, right. We have so many

530
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: inside jokes pertaining to your show. We run with Josh

531
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: and Chuck, We hang at home with Josh and Chuck,

532
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 1: and I think our friends are starting to think we

533
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: are actually friends with Josh and Chuck anyway, Although we

534
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: are six thousand miles in six hour time difference apart,

535
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: we love to listen to the show each week and

536
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: talk about all the jokes and the content. Thanks for

537
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: bringing my other half a little closer every Thursday. I

538
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 1: wonder if he does about Tuesdays. He's missing out on

539
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: a half the fund. If you could read this letter,

540
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: I know it would mean the world to my twin.

541
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: If not, I'm just happy though. You all know that

542
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: your show helps make our separational easier. One half of

543
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 1: the stuff you should know. Fan of Melissa from Babylon,

544
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: New York, and I guess Tony Inn in Hawaii, Tony Spam. Yeah,

545
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: thanks a lot, Tony Spam and Melissa for listening to

546
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: us and discussing what we say that's still after three years,

547
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: is just out there to me. What the people talk

548
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: about things that you and I say, Yeah, that's crazy.

549
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 1: We're in a bubble in here. Um, if we are

550
00:31:55,440 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: overlooking some huge pratfall to being on a government watch list,

551
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: or there even being a government watch list, let us know.

552
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: We want to hear. You're stuck on the no fly list, stories,

553
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: the terrorists, watchless stories, whatever you got, Um, you can

554
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 1: tweet to us S y s K podcast. That's our

555
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,640
Speaker 1: Twitter handle, Visit us on Facebook. That's Facebook dot com,

556
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: slash stuff you should Know, and you can always send

557
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: a good old fashioned email to us via Stuff Podcast

558
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com. Be sure to check

559
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join

560
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 1: how Stuff Work staff as we explore them as promising

561
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow, brought to you by the

562
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you