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Seatt 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:30.240 dot Com Slash Samsung Worp has an AT and D 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:30.920 store for details. 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:35.919 As a United Explorer Card member, you can earn fifty 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:39.840 thousand bonus miles plus look forward to extraordinary travel rewards, 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.440 including a free checked bag, two times the miles on 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:45.240 United purchases and two times the miles on dining and 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.559 at hotels. Become an Explorer and seek out unforgettable places 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:52.000 while enjoying rewards everywhere you travel. Cards issued by JP 0:01:52.120 --> 0:01:55.760 Morgan Chase Bank NA Member FDIC subject to credit approval. 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.000 Offers subject to change. Terms apply. 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:08.880 Hey Daniel, am I remembering correctly that your kids are 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:09.760 almost in college. 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:12.720 That's right. They're in high school, so college is just 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:13.639 around the corner. 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:16.120 Oh my gosh, it goes so fast. Do they want 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.080 to stay close to home or are they needing a 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:21.240 little distance from their parents? 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:25.040 Well, the oldest wants to be far enough away that 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:27.600 we can't pop into surprising, So. 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:29.120 How far is that? Are we talking like a long 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.400 car drive one stayed over a whole country? 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:35.720 This is the loophole my wife is relying on because 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.799 she's willing to travel a long way to just pop. 0:02:38.560 --> 0:02:39.320 In on somebody. 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.160 Ah right, So maybe they need to consider like universities 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.680 in Australia. 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.560 I'm wondering if Elon Musk is going to build a 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.000 university on Mars, they might be able to attend. 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:53.679 You know, he's got enough kids to fill the first 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:56.960 class of students by himself. 0:02:57.600 --> 0:02:59.840 And if Elon is your dad, nowhere in the soul's 0:02:59.840 --> 0:03:00.360 just them is. 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:05.960 Far enough away. 0:03:16.520 --> 0:03:16.720 Hi. 0:03:16.800 --> 0:03:19.480 I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor at 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.399 UC Irvine, and I was definitely ready to leave home 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:23.959 when it was time to go to college. 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:28.040 I'm Kelly Wiener Smith. I'm adjunct at Rice University, and 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.480 I also was ready to go. When I started college, 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:34.840 California was not far enough from Ohio, but I stuck 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:35.160 with that. 0:03:39.280 --> 0:03:42.600 And Welcome to the podcast. Daniel and Jorge explain the Universe, 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.640 in which we take your mind to new locations to 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:49.200 explore new ideas and think about living in other places, 0:03:49.520 --> 0:03:52.720 where we download the entire workings of the universe into 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:55.680 your little brain. My friend and co host Jorge isn't 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.920 here today, but I'm very glad to be joined by Kelly. Hi, Kelly, 0:03:58.920 --> 0:03:59.960 thanks again for joining us. 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:02.240 Hey, thanks for having me. And you know, I think 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:04.400 that maybe we should change the introduction to my friend 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:06.960 and co host. Torge isn't available today, but my friend 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:10.440 and co host Kelly is. I want to be upgraded 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:11.840 to friend and co host status. 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.040 You're definitely a friend and a co host, an a 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.080 fellow scientist, and a colleague, absolutely all those things. 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:20.520 Oh what a great day for me in. 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:23.400 All the prizes. And you're also a great person to 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.960 be talking to about today's topic about casting not just 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.640 our minds, but maybe our bodies and our lives and 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.719 our families out of the little envelope of the Earth 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:35.440 and into the Solar system and maybe even the rest 0:04:35.480 --> 0:04:36.680 of the universe, and. 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.360 Not just the places that you usually think of. We're 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.440 talking about settling places that I think of as maybe 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:44.560 some of the worst places in space. But there are 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:48.080 people who disagree with me. So the question today is 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.880 could humans live on Venus? 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.880 That's right. You might be wondering why anybody ever lives 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:01.800 anywhere other than the best place on Earth, otherwise known 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.480 as southern California. But for some reason, humans do live 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:08.680 in the northern reaches of Norway and the hottest deserts 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:11.040 on Earth, and so humans do seem to have this 0:05:11.400 --> 0:05:16.080 appetite for living in crazy places, maybe even on Venus. 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.880 So we went out there to ask our audience if 0:05:18.880 --> 0:05:22.599 they thought it was possible for humans to live on Venus. 0:05:22.800 --> 0:05:25.520 If you would like to participate in this audience answer 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.640 segment for future episodes, please don't be shy. Write to 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.120 me two questions at Danielandjorge dot com and I'll put 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.520 you on the list. So think about it for a 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.480 minute before you hear these answers. Do you think humans 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:40.960 could live on Venus? Here's what people had to say. 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.000 It might be possible for us to live on Venus, 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:49.560 but obviously we've need protection from the extreme pressure, temperature, radiation, 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.000 and poisonous gases. 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:57.239 I guess in the ice caps in the northern region, 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:03.200 but we'd be vaporized before we got there, correct, So 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:04.640 yes and no. 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.080 Well, just today I heard that Venus is a sister 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:09.520 planet to planet Earth. 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:12.480 So for that reason, I'll say, PEPs. 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:21.400 Humans could live on Venus if we could construct a 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:26.800 strong enough structure. Oh look, never say never, that's my motto. 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:30.400 Okay, So obviously humans could not live on the surface 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:32.920 of Venus. We don't know any life that could manage 0:06:32.960 --> 0:06:36.640 that pressure and temperature. But there's definitely a habitable zone 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.520 up in the atmosphere kind of best bin like cloud 0:06:39.560 --> 0:06:41.760 city style, where we kind of have like balloon or 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:46.240 other floating habitats, and there's possibility there. Is it worth pursuing. 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.279 I think everything's worth pursuing. Spend more money on science. 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.520 There's no way you can live on Venus and be 0:06:52.600 --> 0:06:56.720 a human unless you have some insanely. 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:59.680 Good air conditioning system because it's several hundred degrees there. 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:04.840 Absolutely not for three reasons crushing air pressure, extreme air toxicity, 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:08.640 and extreme heat. Humans could live pretty high up in Venus, 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:10.960 kind of like the Jetson's maybe a balloon city or something 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.600 like that on service no further out No, but somewhere 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:16.880 in the mail the clouds. So what do you think 0:07:16.880 --> 0:07:17.800 of these answers, Kelly? 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:21.080 I think that the listeners who said never say never, 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.880 which was an interesting, you know, repetition in the answers, 0:07:23.920 --> 0:07:26.160 are really going to like the guests that we have 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:26.960 on the show today. 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.200 I think there's a wonderful optimism there, you know, the 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.160 sense that problems that seemed impossible ten years ago or 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.560 fifty years ago might be solvable now. And the humans 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.680 are just so ingenious and always coming up with new solutions, 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:44.600 which means that places that used to be impossible to 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:48.840 imagine living might eventually one day be like cozy and comfortable. 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:53.640 Maybe. Who knows. Humans like to dream big, and on 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:55.960 today's show, we've got a pretty big dreamer. 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:58.640 I mean, why do you think humans like to dream big? Kelly? 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:00.880 You wrote a whole book on this where you were 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.680 not exactly you know, in favor of space colonization in 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.760 the near term. Why do you think it captures the imagination? 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.160 What are the motivations for everybody casting their ideas and 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:14.160 maybe even their families and their descendants out past the 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:14.960 comforts of Earth. 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:16.840 To be honest, I've been asked this question a lot, 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:19.320 and I don't think I will ever have a perfect answer. 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:22.000 But I think it's because we all think different things 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.920 are awesome, you know, Like like I have a vodka 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.440 bottle filled with tapeworms from a road killed porcupine on 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.560 my desk and I think that's awesome and I like 0:08:32.600 --> 0:08:34.880 looking at it sometimes. And there are some people who 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.120 think it would be awesome to move to space, and 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.679 like I could totally get both of those things. I 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:41.760 don't know. I think humans we find our little niches 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:43.679 that we think are awesome and we want to go, 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.400 and space is particularly inspirational. Like, you know, I think 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:47.920 most of us, you and I talk on the show 0:08:47.960 --> 0:08:50.320 all the time about looking up at the stars and 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.160 all the big thoughts that makes us have and how 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.719 small it makes us feel. And yeah, I don't think 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:56.240 I have a really good answer, but I think just 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:58.000 you know, it's kind of awesome, and that's a good 0:08:58.080 --> 0:08:59.480 enough reason to do a lot of things, as long 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:00.680 as it doesn't have at anyone else. 0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:02.880 Well, I think it would be awesome if all the 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.360 tapeworms on Earth were evicted and sent to space. Daniels, 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:07.360 fans are too awesome. 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.680 No, No, I am so glad. You don't have any 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:13.120 power over these things, Daniel. They have to say here 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.720 where people like me can study them. 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.079 All Right, Well, we have a fun expert to talk 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.520 to today who knows a lot about what it might 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.600 be like to live outside of the Earth's comfort zone, 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:27.120 out in space and maybe even in the atmosphere of Venus. 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:31.200 Yeah. So our guest today is Guillermo Sunline. I've had 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.960 the pleasure of meeting Germo in person. We've chatted virtually 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.200 a couple times. He's a really fun guy to talk to. 0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.559 He's got big ideas. He was an officer in the 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.640 US Marine Corps. He got an AB in economics from 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.640 UC Berkeley and a jd from the UC College of 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.120 Law in San Francisco. He's an explorer, an entrepreneur, and 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:51.720 a philanthropist. And today we're going to talk to him 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:54.959 about a space venture studio he's working on called Humans 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:57.760 to Venus, where their goal is to get a thousand 0:09:57.800 --> 0:10:02.520 people living in the Venusian atmosphere by twenty fifty and 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:06.319 there's a lot of challenges with that goal, but Ghermo's 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.040 the right person to be working on it, so let's 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:09.640 talk to him about why he thinks this is a 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:10.760 good plan for humanity. 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:14.079 I'm skeptical, but fascinated. Let's do it same. 0:10:17.000 --> 0:10:19.160 Welcome to the show, Gimo. We're excited to have you here. 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:21.400 Hey, thanks for having me. Looking forward to it. 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:24.439 Yeah, me too. So you and I have met irl 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:27.200 once and it was a lot of fun. So I'm 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.520 excited to be chatting with you again about all of 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:32.880 your awesome Venus stuff. You're the only person I've ever 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:35.319 talked to who made me think that maybe Venus isn't 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:41.160 quite best bad. But we'll get there. Okay. So we're 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.720 talking about settling space, and so first let's talk about 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.439 why space is so hard to settle. So humans are 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:50.319 like super well adapted to life on Earth. What are 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.800 some challenges that space poses to the human body? 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:54.960 Yeah, geez, where to start with that? 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.400 I mean, you know this from writing your book, right, 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:00.600 I Mean, first of all, we're adapted to our gravity 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.280 here on Earth, which I'm sure we'll come back to 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.000 in a minute here talking about Venus. 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:06.120 You know. 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:09.720 Then we've got the protection of our atmosphere, so we've 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.880 got both the breathable air that we take for granted 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.760 as we take our breaths every day, plus keeping us 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:20.120 nice and cozy and warm from the cold of space 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.600 and at the same time keeping us from getting fried 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:27.160 by the sun, which is basically this big star that 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:32.080 we're just living very close to. So yeah, geez, where 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.559 to start. I mean, on top of all that, obviously 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.360 we have to eat and drink water, which is easy 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.200 to get relatively. 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.120 Speaking, here on Earth, and it gets harder as you 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:43.720 leave Earth. 0:11:43.840 --> 0:11:48.000 So one of the things that I always say is 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:51.560 I think people that work in space or work at 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.440 trying to get humans into space are probably some of 0:11:55.480 --> 0:12:00.800 the biggest environmentalists and conservationists because they have a appreciation 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:06.800 for how important Earth is for the human body and 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:08.880 how well, as you said, how well adapted we are 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.280 to Earth, and how ill adapted we are to basically 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:17.160 living anywhere else. So it is our precious, our precious homeworld. 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:18.199 We got to take care of it. 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.360 I was surprised at how many people in the space 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:24.920 community are environmentalists who are really interested in sustainability, because 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.840 I think that when I, as an ecologist, talk to 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:29.880 my friends, a lot of them would be like, oh, 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.040 but the space people, they don't care about Earth. They 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:33.960 just want to dump it and leave it behind and 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:36.560 go leave somewhere else. But that has not at all 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:40.200 been my experience with the community since interacting with you all. 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.240 Yeah, I think I think that's one of the frustrating things, 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:45.280 you know, as you're dealing with the media or the 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.400 general public, or even friends and family, right they're like, 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:49.720 you know, why are you trying to leave Earth? 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:51.320 We have so many problems here on Earth. 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:54.640 It's like, yeah, I know, but you know, it's also 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.240 the best way to draw attention to those problems on 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:00.960 Earth and help find solutions for them. So for some 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.560 people it's the best way, you know, for people like 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:05.240 me and maybe you, I don't know. 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.160 I think it's really interesting that you comment that humans 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.839 are well adapted to Earth but ill adapted anywhere else, 0:13:11.200 --> 0:13:13.480 because one of the things I think about for human 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.480 adaptation is how amazing it is that we've been able 0:13:16.480 --> 0:13:19.400 to live in so many different environments, Like what else 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.040 other than you know, bacteria can adapt to like really 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.320 cold and really warm and really wet and really dry. 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.839 And we've built cities basically everywhere on the Earth except 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.640 maybe Antarctica. Is that just because we're considering a pretty 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:36.040 narrow range of habitats compared to like the extraordinary radiation 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:38.520 and dryness and wetness and insanity of space. 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.720 Yeah, that's exactly as you were saying that, That's exactly 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.120 what I was going to say. You know, it is 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:48.760 such a narrow band relatively speaking. You know, the temperature 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.079 is a big one, right you mentioned you know, the 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:54.959 hottest place on Earth and the coldest place on Earth 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:58.440 range wise, is nothing compared let's say to the dark 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.680 side or light side of the Moon, or you know, 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:05.120 day or night on Mars. And so it is a 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:10.320 very narrow range. And again kind of focusing on the 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.160 core advantage of Venus, all of that is still within 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:14.200 one G of gravity. 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:16.079 So even if you think. 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.320 About even astronauts in low Earth orbit, they're still experiencing 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.080 one g of gravity. The reason they float is because 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:25.840 they're constantly falling off Earth in response to the one 0:14:25.920 --> 0:14:26.600 G of gravity. 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:28.880 But even that, we're still within one G of gravity. 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:33.400 Or even if you think about pressure, atmospheric pressure. As 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:37.080 you know, I've done work underwater, taking humans underwater in 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.800 subs and going from the surface of the Earth let's 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.640 say at sea level, where you have one atmosphere of 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:46.640 atmospheric pressure and go into space, to the vacuum of space, 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.760 it's a change of only one atmosphere. Going underwater, it's 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:54.240 a change of one atmosphere every thirty three feet roughly 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.640 ten meters going down, because you've got the way to 0:14:57.680 --> 0:14:59.160 the atmosphere on top of you, plus you have. 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:00.480 The weight of the water on top of you. 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.160 But we don't live underwater, and right now, we don't 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:08.800 live in the vacuum of space, and so even atmospheric 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.760 pressure wise, we're really only in a very narrow range 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.720 from sea level to maybe you know, some high altitude 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:15.600 and that's about it. 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.840 So basically Earth is like the southern California of the 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:21.760 Solar system. You know. We say we have seasiness, but 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:22.720 really it's not winter. 0:15:24.120 --> 0:15:26.640 Yeah, yeah, it's always sixty eight in sunny you know. 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:29.840 So then why should we ever leave? It seems great here? 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:33.800 Well, you know, it's funny, I just had that. 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:36.400 I've had that discussion several times, and I just had 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.040 it last week with a couple of students that I'm mentoring, 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.440 you know, about why should we leave? And the short answer, 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.680 I think is we should never leave, right, I mean, 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.320 if you think about it from a survival standpoint, survival 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:52.960 instinct standpoint, if you're somewhere comfortable and it's not dangerous 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.880 to you, and it's got water and air and food, 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.760 and you know, why would you ever leave? And the 0:15:58.800 --> 0:16:01.880 thing is, I kind of look at this like in 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:04.480 nature when you look at an ant colony or a 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:08.360 bee hive. Right, Once the queens have a good location 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.400 for their hive, for their colony, they don't move the colony, 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:13.960 they don't move the hive, but they know that at 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:18.400 some point those circumstances may change and they may need. 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:19.840 To move the colony and the hive. 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:24.400 And so in both cases they always have a small 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.360 subset of the colony or hive that is always going 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.840 out and looking at other places. You know, they're kind of, 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.760 you know, to use human terms, they're out exploring, you know, 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.080 they send scouts out in different places, and they end 0:16:35.160 --> 0:16:36.720 up losing a lot of ants and a lot of 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.880 bees in the process, but some of them make it 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.920 back and they convey information to the queens, and at 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.880 some point the queens make a decision that it's time 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:48.760 to move the colony or move the hive, and now 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.640 they've got some information they and they actually do move 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.360 them for the survival of the colony or hive. I think, 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:58.320 to a certain extent, I think that's kind of what's 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:01.080 driving a little bit of let's say Elon Musk looking 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:05.399 at Mars as a potential second home for humanity. Is 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.280 that at some point we may decide we need to 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:12.080 move humanity somewhere, or at least a portion of humanity, 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.000 and by the time that day comes, it's going to 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:18.040 be too late to think about it, like we have 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.520 to have already, you know, taken some steps in that direction. 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.000 I think that's I think that's at the core of 0:17:25.040 --> 0:17:28.600 what's driving someone like Elon to look at taking humanity 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:29.280 off planet. 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:30.359 But I agree with you. 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:33.600 I mean, until something like that happens, like rationally, why 0:17:33.600 --> 0:17:34.840 would you ever leave Earth? 0:17:35.320 --> 0:17:38.600 Well, so that's why Elon wants to settle space. Why 0:17:38.640 --> 0:17:39.800 do you want to settle space? 0:17:40.160 --> 0:17:42.119 This is where it gets a little bit philosophical. 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:47.040 But going back to the ant and be analogy, I 0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:51.200 think genetically, psychologically, I don't know, there's a small subset 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.760 of Homo sapiens that are wired the same way those 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:56.600 scouts are in the in the beehive or in the colony, 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.800 and I think I'm just wired that way. It's I 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:04.600 think that's also why within the explorer community, forget space 0:18:04.640 --> 0:18:07.119 for a second, right, just the general explorer community, Like 0:18:07.119 --> 0:18:09.800 if you go to the Explorers Club and talk to 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.320 anybody there, any of the members there, about the stuff 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:14.760 that they're working on, and they go some of the 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:16.960 places Daniel was just talking about, you know, the deserts, 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:21.200 the poles, you know, high altitudes. Probably the most common 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.679 question that an explorer gets asked is why, right, why 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:25.400 are you doing this? 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:26.680 It just doesn't make sense. 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.520 It seems it's counterintuitive, it goes against your survival instinct 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:32.879 to take a risk climbing that mountain or doing whatever. 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:36.240 And every explorer since you get asked that question so 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.840 often you come up with an answer that you give, 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:42.080 but it never feels like a complete answer. 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:44.000 It never feels like a fulfilling answer. 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.960 And I think if you talk to explorers, I think 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:50.920 at the core it's because they. 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:52.800 Don't know really why they're doing it. 0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:55.240 And I think the reason they don't know why they're 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:57.840 doing it is because they're just wired that way. You know, 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.480 they're just being themselves that's one question that it's never 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.040 ask each other. You never hear an explorer. I remember 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:05.080 at the Explorers Club ask another member, Hey, why are 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:08.679 you doing that? Like they already know that the answer 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:11.760 is I don't know. It's because I'm being myself, you know, 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:12.560 and that's what I do. 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:14.640 It's like asking those ants what you're doing and they're 0:19:14.680 --> 0:19:16.040 just like, we're just anting. 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.440 Yeah, yeah, or at least the Scouts, Yeah, they're just 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:21.760 doing what they think is right. 0:19:22.200 --> 0:19:24.159 I like it, and I feel like, you know, the 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:26.679 parasitologists that I work with, no one, no one is like, 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.360 why are you elbowed deep in fish cuts for a worm? 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:34.000 Because we love the worms. It's very different. But anyway, okay, 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.560 so where are we going to settle? So that in 0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.600 my book, the two most commonplaces I hear about people 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:45.240 wanting to settle are rotating space stations, where they argue 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:47.159 that you can control so many different aspects of your 0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:50.280 environment it's really great, and mores. So I'd love to 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.000 hear your takes on the pros and cons of those 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:55.359 two locations so that we can then set up the 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.880