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Speaker 1: If you have heard about the murder of Jessica Chambers,

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Speaker 1: do not miss the new docuseries on Oxygen. It's the

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Speaker 1: true story of a teen girl, a cheerleader in Mississippi

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Speaker 1: who is burned alive and the story of the man

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Speaker 1: accused of this heinous crime. Is that the right guy

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Speaker 1: on trial? Who is he? And who is Jessica Chambers?

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Speaker 1: And how does such a horrific crime occur? With more

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Speaker 1: questions than answers, this is the case that has captured

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Speaker 1: national headlines, taken over social media, and leaves a small

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Speaker 1: town divided. This is a must see TV event. It

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Speaker 1: features exclusive interviews that take you inside the investigation as

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Speaker 1: a search for answers and justice goes on. Unspeakable crime,

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Speaker 1: The Killing of Jessica Chambers, Saturdays at seven six Central

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Speaker 1: on Oxygen, the new network for Crime. I'm raphael In,

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Speaker 1: Chief of Police and I'm heartbroken. Our communities are broken,

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Speaker 1: our searchers, our investigators. This is not the end that

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Speaker 1: we had hoped for. Maddox Rich a beautiful young man,

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Speaker 1: blonde hair, blue eyes, out walking this past Saturday with

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Speaker 1: his dad, walking around the lake, looking at turtles, doing

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Speaker 1: the things that a young man would do. And this

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Speaker 1: is not the ending we hope I Nancy Grace, this

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Speaker 1: is crime stories. Thank you for being with us. A

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Speaker 1: search for little Maddox has not turned out the way

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Speaker 1: we had prayed, but the search has ended with a

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Speaker 1: discovery of Maddox's body. Listen, the chief night saw Maddox

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Speaker 1: and it is absolutely amazing that he was found. And

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Speaker 1: for for anyone who doesn't have an understanding of just

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Speaker 1: how difficult, uh what we have asked the search and

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Speaker 1: rescue efforts to do is um. I don't know there's

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Speaker 1: a way for you to understand, but it was extremely

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Speaker 1: difficult to see him, even when we were standing right

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Speaker 1: next to him. But yet, even though the body of

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Speaker 1: six year old Maddox has been found, officials insisting, quote,

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Speaker 1: the investigation is not over for those of you just

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Speaker 1: joining us. Six year old little Maddox goes for a

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Speaker 1: walk with his dad and his dad's girlfriend in Rankin Park,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina. The father says he got ahead of him,

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Speaker 1: Max got ahead of him, and then when he tried

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Speaker 1: to find him, he couldn't. So many questions this morning,

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Speaker 1: but let's first start with the discovery of the body,

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Speaker 1: the body of this beautiful little boy. Authorities had gone

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Speaker 1: so far as to pipe out play out the sound

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Speaker 1: Maddox's parents calling for him. Maddox autistic and non verbal,

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Speaker 1: in the hopes that he would come from his hiding

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Speaker 1: place in the woods and that huge, huge, densely wooded

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Speaker 1: park that was not to be joining me. Cop turned

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Speaker 1: private eye Vincent Hill. They're in the jurisdiction Kathleen Murphy,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina family lawyer and forensics expert, professor of forensics,

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Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet. Joseph Scott Morgan jo Scott,

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Speaker 1: I want to start with the discovery of Maddox's body. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, Nancy, Uh it is uh the

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Speaker 1: body is found in a densely, densely uh covered area.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking the way they're describing it, Nancy, is that

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Speaker 1: it sounds as though it's like low brush and it's

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Speaker 1: covering a little waterway, a little creek that's immediately adjacent

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Speaker 1: to this big lake that's a big recreational area. The

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Speaker 1: reports that we're hearing right now is that the police

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Speaker 1: that searched this area, uh specifically this area, and had

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Speaker 1: not seen him, as you heard in the earlier clip. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they were saying that they had been in a specific area,

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Speaker 1: had not had not seen him, and that they were

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Speaker 1: very fortunate to find him this time. Unfortunate as kind

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Speaker 1: of a dubious word there, but he was found submerged,

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Speaker 1: their saying, uh, in two to three feet of water. Well,

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Speaker 1: hold on, I don't understand something when you're saying they

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Speaker 1: hadn't seen him. The way I was envisioning it is

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Speaker 1: that he was deep under the pond and there was

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Speaker 1: no way they could have seen him. Yeah, And and

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Speaker 1: that's that's the striking thing, uh, you know, and uh,

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Speaker 1: He's the only thing I can really think of is that, Uh,

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Speaker 1: they've been you know, they've had that whole area covered

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Speaker 1: with drones, They've had dogs in here. Of course, they've

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Speaker 1: even deployed a swat team uh to wander through this

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Speaker 1: area and and and just see what they could what

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Speaker 1: they could turn up, and no one was able to

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Speaker 1: see this child at this point. Tom the you know,

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Speaker 1: as a forensics guy, when I begin to hear this

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Speaker 1: sort of thing, uh, as gruesome as it is, one

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Speaker 1: of the things I begin to think about is that

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Speaker 1: potentially decomposition had begun to set in and he has

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Speaker 1: essentially kind of floated to the top, whereas he wouldn't

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Speaker 1: he wouldn't seen before. Uh. That's really the only thing

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Speaker 1: I can think of, right, And that does make sense

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Speaker 1: if if anyone is suggesting that Maddox's body was not

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Speaker 1: there at the beginning of the search and ended up

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Speaker 1: there through a nefarious uh path, I don't believe that's

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Speaker 1: forensically possible. The whole part was covered with people searching

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Speaker 1: for Maddox. There's no way. I don't think that it's

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Speaker 1: feasible for the body to have been planted in the

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Speaker 1: water after the search started. And I'm not thinking that either, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: They've had this thing lockdown. You could, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: if you just go back to the news conference, this

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Speaker 1: guy was just busting with emotion. Uh, this poor fellow

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Speaker 1: that's having to lead the search. And I can tell

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Speaker 1: you they had eyes on all over this place. They

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Speaker 1: were covering every tot until you know Vincent Hill, private investigator,

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Speaker 1: when Joe Scott Morgan's said that due to decomposition, your

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Speaker 1: body as it decomposes, becomes full of gases like if

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Speaker 1: you think of a piece of fruit. Okay, those gases

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Speaker 1: are trapped inside your body, and your body will float up.

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Speaker 1: Hold On, I'm about to take a call from Leslie

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Speaker 1: and Pittsburgh. But Vincent Hill, you have a theory regarding

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Speaker 1: the body, Yeah, Nancy. One of the things that strikes

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Speaker 1: me as odd is one of the investigators said that

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Speaker 1: the body could not have drifted from the park to

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Speaker 1: where it was found because there's some barriers in between

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Speaker 1: there for that exact reason, So the question becomes exactly

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Speaker 1: how and more importantly, when did Maddox's body get to

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Speaker 1: where it was found. Now we've always assumed that he

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Speaker 1: was out on his walk with his dad, But strikingly, again,

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Speaker 1: we still have not yet heard from people inside that

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Speaker 1: park to say, yes, I saw him running, I saw

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Speaker 1: the dad, I saw the dad chasing him. So there's

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Speaker 1: still so many questions, Nancy. Okay, hold On, that's a

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Speaker 1: couple of different different thoughts right there. And the one

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Speaker 1: one zero in on is you saying, Vincent Hill, that

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Speaker 1: from where he was last seen, he could not have

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Speaker 1: gotten to this body of water. According to investigators, they

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Speaker 1: say there are barriers in the park, the lake in

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Speaker 1: the park to prevent things from floating out into these creeks,

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Speaker 1: So it would be almost impossible for Maddox to have

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Speaker 1: gotten into that botty body of water at the park

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Speaker 1: and ended up where he was. Well. Kathleen Murphy joining

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Speaker 1: us there in North Carolina. You have poured over the

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Speaker 1: aerial shots. Could you explain to our listeners what is

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Speaker 1: Vincent Hill? Saying Vincent Hill is always right and I'm

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Speaker 1: looking at the map and the reality of it is

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Speaker 1: is to get to the ranking parks, you have to

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Speaker 1: cross a highway, Highway three, and go through all of

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Speaker 1: these businesses. I think it's highway. The body was found

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Speaker 1: across the major map road to the east of the park,

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Speaker 1: and if I'm looking at this map, it was a

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Speaker 1: mile perhaps from the park. I could be wrong about that,

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Speaker 1: but it's on a major it's off of a major

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Speaker 1: road on the other side of the park. There's no way,

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Speaker 1: there's no way. We are taking your call straight out

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Speaker 1: to Leslie in Pittsburgh. Hi, Leslie. You know Leslie, I've

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Speaker 1: covered so many cases, and I've tried so many cases

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Speaker 1: in court, and I I remember, Leslie, when I would

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Speaker 1: get a verdict from the jury of guilty. People think

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Speaker 1: that you celebrate that you go out and pop the champagne.

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Speaker 1: It's not like that. I was always just exhausted and

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Speaker 1: relieved one more bag I was put away, And that's

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Speaker 1: kind of how I feel right now. I'm I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: glad there are answers and the searches over, but I

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Speaker 1: just exhausted and and just worn down with worrying and

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Speaker 1: thinking about Maddox and his parents, and I know that

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Speaker 1: they are just just torn in half with this discovery.

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Speaker 1: Leslie in Pittsburgh weigh in, Yeah, first of all, can't

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Speaker 1: even imagine, and obviously it's not the news we're all

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Speaker 1: hoping for us devastating here that Um, I really am

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Speaker 1: curious what you think. You kind of already touched on

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Speaker 1: the location of the body and how it probably wouldn't

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Speaker 1: have been planted there later. But if there was fyle play,

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Speaker 1: what does the location of the body suggests. Would it

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Speaker 1: be a quick crime of opportunity? It seems like if

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Speaker 1: the father was involved, she probably wouldn't have hidden him,

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Speaker 1: you know, so close to where they were searching, or

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Speaker 1: what do you think about that? Well, I think that

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Speaker 1: under the scenario of the father looking for him and

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Speaker 1: him last being seen in the park, it would only

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Speaker 1: make sense to have the body there. If there was

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Speaker 1: a nefarious intent on this um of course, it could

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Speaker 1: have always if you wanted to kill a child, I

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Speaker 1: assume you could have killed the child and pretended that

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Speaker 1: someone had kidnapped him and taking them out of the park.

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Speaker 1: But you're thought about a common opportunity, yes, And I'll

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Speaker 1: go back to a case we are all familiar with,

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Speaker 1: Robert Blake. He, according to prosecutors and a civil jury,

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Speaker 1: kills Bonnie Lee Bakley, his wife, the mother of his child, Rosie,

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Speaker 1: and it's a crime of opportunity, and he dumps the

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Speaker 1: murder weapon right there. Of course he has it planned,

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Speaker 1: but he can't get rid of the murder weapon, okay,

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Speaker 1: so it has to be put in the dumpster, remember that, Leslie. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So here if it was planned, but it had to

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Speaker 1: be carried out in a certain way, the body would

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Speaker 1: have been disposed of right there. But there is no

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Speaker 1: suggestion at this point that the father or the girlfriend

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Speaker 1: had anything at all to do with the child's death.

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Speaker 1: Right now, we are still waiting on a cause of

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Speaker 1: death of baby Maddox. But right now, take a listen

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Speaker 1: to this. We will not take anything for granting you.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot of work and there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of people did have lost a lot of sleep and

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Speaker 1: are committed to continuing to making sure that we answer

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Speaker 1: every question that we can about where Maddox was, how

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Speaker 1: his movement occurred, and how it was that he ended

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Speaker 1: up where he did. And that means, as you've heard,

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Speaker 1: let's ask many times that we still want to hear

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Speaker 1: from the people who are in the park that day.

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Speaker 1: Death in counting on one one? What is the address?

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Speaker 1: Her emergency? We had Reaking Lake, Paul Gath owner and

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Speaker 1: um gotta missing kid. Um if he's missing, he's still missing,

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Speaker 1: probably the last thirty forty minutes our maybe we's the address? Oh,

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Speaker 1: seventeen fifty Renking Lake grows, he said, almost say almost

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Speaker 1: an hour now we thirst everywhere? Are you an employee?

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Speaker 1: Is the parents there? Yeah, they're here, they're out looking

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Speaker 1: for what's the child's name? Dad? I forgot, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: He had to told me the light that I forgot

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Speaker 1: the kid's name. Black waters spanning, I'm sorry, what is

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Speaker 1: the child? Black witer? Hispanning, I'm sorry, whit white male? Okay,

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Speaker 1: can you give me a description of what the little

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Speaker 1: boy was wearing? His blonde head? Um one shirt. I

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Speaker 1: think the shirts saying I'm the man or something like that.

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Speaker 1: And he had black shorts. Where is the last place

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Speaker 1: they seen him at in the park? They seen him

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Speaker 1: right Bob the um here in the sestis freeze over

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Speaker 1: here on the other hand, seen him near the pier

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Speaker 1: in the trees. Okay, And I can't. I need to

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Speaker 1: know his name as a parent's fair by or somebody

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Speaker 1: near the e can talk to give me one second.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't know a kid's name. There are

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Speaker 1: out here, you were hearing part employee Rick Fox as

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Speaker 1: he calls into nine one one the disappearance of Maddox

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Speaker 1: Little Maddox, just six years old. Maddox Rich allegedly runs

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Speaker 1: away from his dad in the park, and the dad

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Speaker 1: says he couldn't catch him in the last hours. The

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Speaker 1: search comes to an end, and not the way that

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Speaker 1: we wished. Take a listen, the investigation is not over

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Speaker 1: and you should not take away anything from that except

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Speaker 1: to understand that in law enforcement we will not take

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Speaker 1: anything for granted. So there's a lot of work, and

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that have lost a lot

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Speaker 1: of sleep and are committed to continuing to making sure

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Speaker 1: that we answer every question that we can about where

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Speaker 1: Maddox was, how his movement occurred, and how it was

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Speaker 1: that he ended up where he did. Investigators in North

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Speaker 1: Carolina say they believe that they have found the body

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Speaker 1: of missing six year old little boy Maddox Rich in

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Speaker 1: a shallow creek and it is near the here where

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Speaker 1: he was reported missing, and that was last Saturday. Now,

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Speaker 1: according to his dad, Maddox ran away in a park

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Speaker 1: and he couldn't catch him. But right now the possible

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Speaker 1: last witnesses being sought. Who is that witness now? The

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Speaker 1: dad said he had to run around people in the park.

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Speaker 1: Where are those people? Where are those people? More than

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Speaker 1: three hundred investigators spent nearly a week pouring over hundreds

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Speaker 1: of leads, searching acre after acre after acre, thousands of

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Speaker 1: acres for the six year old. Of course, this is

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Speaker 1: not the conclusion that anyone wanted. I find it really

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Speaker 1: interesting and this is out to you, Vincent Hill cop

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Speaker 1: turned p I that the guy who called nine one

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Speaker 1: one doesn't believe Max was ever at the park, and

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Speaker 1: that the dad did not act concerned. And why did

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Speaker 1: they try to cover up that the dad was with

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend? And answer you definitely have to question that

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Speaker 1: because the dad was for to his girlfriend as a friend,

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Speaker 1: and I always questioned why the dad didn't call nine

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Speaker 1: one after minutes close to an hour. You have this

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Speaker 1: park worker calling nine who says the dad did not

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Speaker 1: seem too concern that little Maddox was missing. You still

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Speaker 1: have to you have to question that. And again where

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Speaker 1: all these witnesses that were supposedly in this park? Nancy

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Speaker 1: In a very long Facebook post just last night, Maddox's

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Speaker 1: dad in thanked investigators, and I'm quoting what he said today.

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Speaker 1: I found out I'm not a dad anymore. I would

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Speaker 1: give anything to go back and save him. That is

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Speaker 1: heart breaking, heart breaking to Joe Scott Morgan, forensics professor

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University and author of Blood Beneath My Feet

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Speaker 1: Death Investigator. When you look at a body, when you

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Speaker 1: perform the autopsy, how is it that pathologists can tell

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Speaker 1: the difference between someone that was drowned versus someone that

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Speaker 1: was asphyxiated. Uh? Well, specifically, what they're going to be

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Speaker 1: looking for is, uh, is the weight of the lungs

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Speaker 1: when the internal examination is done relative to drowning to

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Speaker 1: see because if if the lungs, Nancy, are containing our

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Speaker 1: effuse with water. That means the individual was breathing or

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Speaker 1: inhalating when they went under and began to take in water. Now, Uh,

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Speaker 1: if you're talking about an asphyxial death, Uh, one of

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Speaker 1: the things that we would look for would be signs

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Speaker 1: of trauma around the neck and even uh in cases

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Speaker 1: of smothering um, where someone places their hand over somebody's

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Speaker 1: we can see some trauma in the mouth relative to that.

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Speaker 1: But there's one thing that we're not thinking about here.

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Speaker 1: Water is also a modality of of intentional uh asphyxiation

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Speaker 1: where an individual can beheld beneath the surface of the water.

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Speaker 1: So all of those factors have to be taken into

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Speaker 1: account relative to that. Now, if an individual struggling against

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Speaker 1: someone holding them underwater, uh, then that would mean that

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Speaker 1: we would look for other trauma and on the body

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Speaker 1: and also on the body or on the person of

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Speaker 1: the individual that might be a suspect. But this child

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Speaker 1: wasn't found at the park either. This child was nowhere

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Speaker 1: even remotely closed to the ranking Lake park. He was

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Speaker 1: across highway when they found his body. Okay, See, when

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Speaker 1: when you're saying that to the listeners. What does that

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Speaker 1: mean though, Kathleen, It means that a little six year

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Speaker 1: old boy, if he was wandering around. Vincent said, there

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Speaker 1: were no stop There were stop gaps in place to

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Speaker 1: prevent the body floating to where it would be found. Correct.

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Speaker 1: So if this child it was in the location where

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Speaker 1: he was found, he would have had to walk across

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Speaker 1: a major highway, Highway three one, past all of these

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Speaker 1: businesses that were out there to be in the location

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Speaker 1: where he was found. Needless to say, the investigation is

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Speaker 1: going on. The mother and father heart broken. The baby's

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Speaker 1: body has been found in a waterway there at Rankin Park.

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Speaker 1: No suggestion of foul play has emerged at this time,

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Speaker 1: and for now I think what we should be doing

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Speaker 1: is praying for Maddox and for his family. The two

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Speaker 1: year old from Grand Island, whom investigators alleged was injured

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Speaker 1: by a woman caring for that child earlier this month,

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Speaker 1: has died. The girl had been in the intensive care

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Speaker 1: unit at O'shi Children's Hospital for twelve days before she

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Speaker 1: succumbed to her injuries. Savage revealed the Valenti, whom is

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Speaker 1: described as an acquaintance of the girl's father, told police.

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Speaker 1: She believed the child had some sort of allergic reaction

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Speaker 1: which caused her to have difficulty breathing, and we were

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Speaker 1: then notified by the hospital that there appeared that there

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Speaker 1: may have been some type of injuries inflicted on a child,

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Speaker 1: and that's when our detectives went over there and that's

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Speaker 1: when the investigation began. You're hearing our friend reporter Dave

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Speaker 1: McKinley at w g r Z and the Erie County

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Speaker 1: Sheriff's Captain Greg Savage, a mommy blogger who describes parenting

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Speaker 1: as they quote blessing, is now suspected in the shaking

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Speaker 1: death of her boyfriend's two year old little girl. Her

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Speaker 1: name Brianna Valenti of Grand Island. What this would be,

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Speaker 1: if it's true, is a victim, a child victim of

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Speaker 1: shaken baby syndrome. And we're going to be joined by

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Speaker 1: pathologist Dr Michelle Dupree on what that means. The problem

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Speaker 1: with shaking baby syndrome is you look at the baby

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Speaker 1: and you don't see anything wrong and is a closed

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Speaker 1: head injury, like when you fall down the steps you

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Speaker 1: have book blow to the head and you can't see

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Speaker 1: on the outside what's wrong. But very slowly, the brain

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Speaker 1: is swelling and the child dies. Joining me. Dr Brian Russell,

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Speaker 1: host of the hit series Fatal Vows. Dr Michelle du Pre, Pathologists,

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Speaker 1: medical examiner, Vincent Hill, Coop turned p I, Kathleen Murphy,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina family lawyer, and special guests. Joining me right

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Speaker 1: now from daily mail dot Com and Daily Mail TV.

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Speaker 1: Sean Walsh mommy blogger. Exactly what is a mommy blogger?

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Speaker 1: Because when I was working and raising the twins in

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Speaker 1: their infancy, I would literally see stars. I was so tired, Sean,

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Speaker 1: What you have time to blog about the mommy experience?

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Speaker 1: Is that? What that is? It is? But I if

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Speaker 1: I had suggested to my wife to be a mommy

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Speaker 1: blogger when she was home with both of my boys,

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Speaker 1: I think she would have beaten me to death with

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Speaker 1: a bottle of baby's milk because there was no time

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Speaker 1: and you're not kidding, and really forget about it. If

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Speaker 1: you're pumping breast milk and adding it in there, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm fall asleep during that process. I was so tired.

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Speaker 1: But that's a whole another can ORMs. Mommy blogger shakes

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Speaker 1: baby dad starting and Nancy like, I'll give you the

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Speaker 1: money the mommy blogger thing. According to her Facebook page,

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Speaker 1: Ms Valenti enjoys writing about her experiences as a mother.

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Speaker 1: But I mean her blog was called Weird, Wicked and

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Speaker 1: Wild and she was listened as its head parenting blog blogger,

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Speaker 1: where she talked about her experiences raising her daughter. But

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Speaker 1: I mean the blog tiede. Wait right there, that's just

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Speaker 1: putting my teeth on edge. This is a very this

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Speaker 1: is a very very sad case. Miss Valenti of Grand

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Speaker 1: Island in New York. She faces humerous charges in connection

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Speaker 1: to the death of Raylian Rose Fuller, aged two, including

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Speaker 1: reckless assault of a child. Don't just rattle it off

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Speaker 1: like that, Sean. Have you seen the picture. Beautiful little girl.

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Speaker 1: She's got on this little pink sun Jess. Look at

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Speaker 1: this jackie and she's sitting on it looks like a

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Speaker 1: big pink foot one. And she's got a little pink

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Speaker 1: headbad with a little pink bow one. And she's all

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Speaker 1: decked out perfectly matching, with a cute little smile on

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Speaker 1: her face. She's got a little front to teeth in.

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Speaker 1: I remember I tried to put her headband like that

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Speaker 1: on Lucy. That last about twenty seconds. Anyway, My point

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Speaker 1: is somebody spent a lot of time getting this little

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Speaker 1: girl totally dressed, a totally dis precious so let's just

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Speaker 1: not rush through the facts. Railian Rose Fuller and she

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Speaker 1: was two years old. Okay, now go ahead, hung it's

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Speaker 1: a beautiful little baby. Like beautiful little baby Nancy um.

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Speaker 1: So apparently miss Valenti had been looking after a little

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Speaker 1: Raylan Rose that day along with her own daughter, five

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Speaker 1: year old, when the alleged assault unfolded. She reportedly called

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend, saying that his daughter had passed out and

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Speaker 1: was having trouble breathing. Paramedics were called and the little

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Speaker 1: girl was rushed to the Children's while spital with injuries

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Speaker 1: resulting in her being unresponsive. Police said she was admitted

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Speaker 1: to the intensive care unit, and deputies with the Erie

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Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office were contacted by the Erie County Child

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Speaker 1: Protective Services Soon afterwards, on September eleven, authorities arrested Valenti

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Speaker 1: and charged her um that she's still being held at

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Speaker 1: the Erie County Holding Center. Police would not save shell

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Speaker 1: face further charges. Following the death of Fuller's daughter on Saturday.

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Speaker 1: You know I'm looking and apparently she has given a

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Speaker 1: statement on her blog which will make prosecutors dance in glee. Um,

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Speaker 1: I really do not know where to start with this

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Speaker 1: right now. I am in shock, I am horrified. I

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Speaker 1: feel sick. It is incredibly difficult for me. That seems

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Speaker 1: to be all about her. She talked to Michelle Dupree

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Speaker 1: before I go back to Sean, explain the shaking baby syndrome. Please,

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Speaker 1: when Anthew shaking baby syndrome. Of course, when a baby

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Speaker 1: is shaken forcibly, and you know their their neck muscles

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Speaker 1: and their heads don't develop until some time later. What

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Speaker 1: happens is the head, the brain bounces back and forth

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Speaker 1: between the skull, causing coup and counter coup. Injuries can

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Speaker 1: even cause bruising, can cause brain swelling, can even cause death.

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Speaker 1: It can certainly cause impairment, lifelong impairment. So Sean Walsh,

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Speaker 1: let me understand this was her boyfriend's child, correct, that's correct, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: and she was what she was looking after her boyfriend's

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Speaker 1: child as well as her own daughter that day. So

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Speaker 1: something has happened Nancy in that house that has resulted

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Speaker 1: in this, and that's why I find that statement on

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Speaker 1: the blog extraordinary. That wouldn't it be about how tragic

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Speaker 1: it is what happened to that baby, not what's happening

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Speaker 1: to you? Yeah. That that's that was impressed me at

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Speaker 1: the very beginning, that it was not about the baby,

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Speaker 1: it was about the blog. I want to understand how

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Speaker 1: they're saying it was an allergic reaction. Is that what

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Speaker 1: they first said when they went to the hospital, there's

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Speaker 1: been some reaction, and that the child had passed out

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Speaker 1: and she didn't know what had gone on. But when

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Speaker 1: further investigations were done, this is when it came up

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Speaker 1: that it looks like this is shaking baby syndrome. Wow,

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Speaker 1: the baby dies in the hospital and they said that

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Speaker 1: she apparently couldn't breathe. Dr Michelle Dubrie. If the father

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Speaker 1: saw the baby not being able to breathe, he may

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Speaker 1: have thought it was an allergic reaction. Nancy, that's true. Um,

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Speaker 1: I guess the concerning point here is, you know, has

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Speaker 1: she been allergic to something out where there's probably are

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Speaker 1: bruises on her arms from being held and shaken. Um,

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Speaker 1: there are all kinds of questions here that must be answered.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at W U K

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Speaker 1: b W. This is Ali Tooey, always happy and so loving.

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Speaker 1: That's how Cody Fuller is remembering his daughter, Raylan Rose.

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Speaker 1: Fuller had custody of the tyler, and he says he

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Speaker 1: was at work back on September ten when all of

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Speaker 1: this unfolded. His girlfriend, Brianna Valenti, was watching Raylan and

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Speaker 1: her own five year old daughter when Fuller says she

428
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: called him saying Raylan was having trouble breathing. He says

429
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 1: he later learned from doctors that they believe Raylan had

430
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 1: been shaken and that's what caused her injuries. Prior to

431
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,359
Speaker 1: Raylan's death, Valenti faced several felonies, including reckless assault and

432
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: a misdemeanor child endangerment charge. It's unclear whether investigators will

433
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 1: increase those charges. Fuller tells me he like her charged

434
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: with his daughter's death. He says he hasn't spoken with

435
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 1: Valenti since her arrest. The Sherif's office allegies twenty six

436
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: year old Brianna Valenti assaulted the child on September ten.

437
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 1: Valenti was already jailed after her arraignment on charges of

438
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 1: assault and held onto dollars bail. Now charges may be upgraded,

439
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 1: possibly to murder. It comes down to evidentiary questions within

440
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 1: the case. You know, what exactly did she do or

441
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: not do? What exactly are the baby's injuries and uh

442
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: and what was her intent? And more. Investigations were still

443
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 1: in interviewing people who may have information. We've gotten some

444
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: phone calls from some different people who are familiar with

445
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: the case giving us information and we're trying to sort

446
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: through all that and make sure that we do everything

447
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: properly because it's a very serious case. We are talking

448
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: about a little girl now dead, just two years old.

449
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: She was in the care of her father's girlfriend, a mommy,

450
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: a blogger who describes being a parent as a blessing.

451
00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: Out to Kathleen Murphy, North Carolina family lawyer, you were

452
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,480
Speaker 1: bringing up the case of Lucas Hernandez. Why there's so

453
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: many similarities, And Nancy, I have to put this out

454
00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: there to all your listeners. If you're single parents, don't

455
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 1: leave your children with your significant other, even if you

456
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: think you can trust them, because this is happening over

457
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: and over again. And if I represented the mother in

458
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: this case who didn't have custody, I would certainly have

459
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: asked on a regular basis for the court not to

460
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,880
Speaker 1: allow third party him the person is romantically involved with,

461
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: to be a primary caregiver of the children. We understand

462
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: that funeral arrangements are being made for the child, but

463
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: they are private. I'm looking at Valenti's bio, Brianna Valenti,

464
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: the Mummy blogger. She encourages readers to reach out to

465
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: her and says, if you need advice, to laugh or

466
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: someone who understands what you're going through, call me. Well,

467
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: I don't understand what you're going through. What does that mean?

468
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: Like it's a bad thing raising children? Yes, it's exhausting.

469
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: I mean, Sean Walsh, you have two children. Dr Brian Russell,

470
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,440
Speaker 1: I'm waiting on you to have children because you get busy.

471
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 1: Sean Walsh, it's exhausting, that's true. But I'm not quite

472
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: sure what she means by that. Sean Nancy, I don't

473
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 1: know what she means, but I don't said it is

474
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: exhausting and having kids is the toughest job that any

475
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: parent will ever have. But here's where I'm always stunned

476
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: by this is that I know when my children have

477
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: a friend over for a sleepover. You have like an

478
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: extra layer of protection to make sure that those children

479
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: are safe and that they have a good time, and

480
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,840
Speaker 1: they go back to their parents just as they were

481
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 1: dropped off at your home. This is what I'll never

482
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: understand with how people who are related to a child

483
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: that have them in their care can hurt them. I'll

484
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: never understand that Nancy no online Valenti Rights glowingly of

485
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: her relationship with the baby, her boyfriend's daughter and her

486
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: own five year old girl. Quote, It's a blessing to

487
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 1: wake up every day to Litta Fit running down the

488
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:35,440
Speaker 1: hallway yelling good morning, Valenty Rights, even if the day

489
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: does start as you waking up to her messing with

490
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 1: her little sister in her crib. Patience is a virtue. Parents.

491
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 1: Life doesn't get easier, we just get better at handling it. Now,

492
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. I don't trying to

493
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: decipher and apply logic to an illogical situation. Now we

494
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: know that she is the one that call nine one one.

495
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends at w i VB TV.

496
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: That's just Shannon Smith. Captain Greg Savage with the Erie

497
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office says Valenti was the one who called

498
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: nine around four pm September t on Grand Island that

499
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: the child she had an unresponsive baby suffering from a

500
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: possible allergic reaction. Savage says that toddler was taken to

501
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: Oshie Children's Hospital after she reportedly had trouble breathing and

502
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 1: passed out. They say the child suffered injuries that led

503
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: to her being unresponsive. It's not clear what those injuries were.

504
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: You're then notified by the hospital that if there appeared

505
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: that there may have been some type of injuries inflicted

506
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,160
Speaker 1: on the child, and that's when architectives went over there

507
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 1: and that's when the investigation began. So to you saw

508
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: wilsh Where does it stand now, Well, investigations continue um.

509
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: She is currently being held and we wait to see

510
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: what happens, but I think it's going to be over

511
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 1: the next couple of months will work out if in

512
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: fact this was shaking baby when we hear what evidence

513
00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: is provided, but it sounds that way, And how would

514
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: that be proved or disproved? Dr Michelle Dupree, Well, basically

515
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: you would look for signs where the um person had

516
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: been holding the child, such as bruises, around the shoulders.

517
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 1: You can also look at the swelling in the brain

518
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: um it is a magnetic to approve that. You you

519
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 1: approve that, you would look at things like that under

520
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: the microscope, you know to Vincent Hill, cop turned private investigator,

521
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: how do you go about proving this because it's a

522
00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 1: circumstantial case of Vincent, Yeah, and Nancy, it's all circumstantial.

523
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: But I think the autopsy will be able to tell. Listen,

524
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: I responded to a call where the baby was unresponsive.

525
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: There's no visible signs that you can see off the bat,

526
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: but once at autopsy has done, it will be able

527
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: to spot out that brain injury that is consistent with

528
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:51,880
Speaker 1: shaking baby. Since well, I guess the point I'm making

529
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: is that, yes, they may be able to tell the

530
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: cause of death, but how do they know who did it?

531
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: Who is the last person the house other than the

532
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: mommy blogger? Had the father been there, had a neighbor

533
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: been there, had somebody else baby sat the baby? How

534
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 1: do you go about proving those details back to you?

535
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: Dr Michelle Dupree, what about a time interval in in

536
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: showing when the incident occurred? Can you place the time

537
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: of the shaking Nancy. That is always a significant question

538
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: and often times that's difficulture do. But typically we can

539
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: piece together a time frame when the baby died, approximate

540
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: time of death, and who was with the child at

541
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 1: that point in time. But it is difficult to Dr

542
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,680
Speaker 1: Brian Russell. So how do you pick a partner? You've

543
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: got somebody it seems perfectly normal, just like in Lucas

544
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 1: Hernandez Emily Glass seemed perfectly normal to the father, and

545
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: then you find out they've mistreated your child. What do

546
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: you look for? Well, my advice is for single parents

547
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: of minor children, single or divorced parents of minor children,

548
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: that your children don't meet anyone who is a significant

549
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: other a dating partner of yours until they're eighteen plus

550
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: years old. And I know people are shocked by that

551
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: and they're going, I'm supposed to not have a love

552
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: life until my kids are eight Yeah, that's right, because

553
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,280
Speaker 1: in my entire career the yeah, of course most step

554
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: parents are or step parent figures. Significant others of parents

555
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: are not going to come in and murder the kid.

556
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 1: But in my career, the percentage of the time that

557
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,160
Speaker 1: that happens is about the same as the percentage of

558
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: the time that the step figure comes in and is

559
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 1: a real, big, huge benefit to that child. The vast

560
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: majority of the time what I see is transient significant

561
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: others of the parents coming in, coming out of the

562
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: kids lives, making attachments, breaking attachments, getting the kids excited,

563
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,759
Speaker 1: and then disappointed or complicating the kids lives because they

564
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: don't like them, but the parent does. And so most

565
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: of the time it just becomes this mess that doesn't

566
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: do any good for the kids. And I'm sorry, but

567
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: once you become a parent, every decision that you make

568
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,280
Speaker 1: has to be primarily about what isn't the best interests

569
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: of my children? And yeah, that might mean putting off

570
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: your own love life. Do you want to if your

571
00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: kids go back and forth between your house and the

572
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,919
Speaker 1: other parents house and you want to date somebody while

573
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,719
Speaker 1: your kids are not with you, knock yourself out. But

574
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: when they're there, you ought to not be splitting their

575
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:32,279
Speaker 1: time between you and anybody else. In my never to

576
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 1: be humble professional opinion, can I weigh in here, Nancy,

577
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: because this if I I couldn't agree more. And I mean,

578
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,279
Speaker 1: people are required to have a license to have a pet,

579
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: yet anyone can go and have a child, Your children

580
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: have to be your first responsibility. I couldn't agree more.

581
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: I think the keyword nancy is transient. If these step

582
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: parents are not actually married, parents are not married, and

583
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 1: there's drama and there's a lot of transient in those relationships,

584
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: those are not good. But step parents can be wonderful

585
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: addition to children's lives. And it's just a matter, Uh,

586
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 1: is that person you're bringing the other parents into the

587
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: home a transient decision maker who's not legitimately thinking through

588
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 1: all of these aspects before somebody else comes into the

589
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: relations Stepparents can be wonderful additions to children's lives about

590
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 1: one percent of the time. And those so those odds

591
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 1: are not in anybody's favor. If you've got a chance

592
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: of doing something that's gonna screw up your kid, uh,

593
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,279
Speaker 1: and a one percent chance of doing something that's gonna

594
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: help him, you air on the side of not doing

595
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: it right now. Brianna Valenti Mommy blog are being held

596
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 1: on a dredfty dollars bond as we wait to determine

597
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: whether charges will be increased. Fancy Grace Crime Stories signing off,

598
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: goodbye friend. If you have heard about The Murder of

599
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 1: Jessica Chambers. Do not miss the new Doctorseries on Oxygen.

600
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:02,719
Speaker 1: It's this true story of a teen girl, a cheerleader

601
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 1: in Mississippi who is burned alive and the story of

602
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: the man accused of this heinous crime. Is that the

603
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: right guy on trial? Who is he? And who is

604
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 1: Jessica Chambers? And how does such a horrific crime occur?

605
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 1: With more questions than answers, this is the case that

606
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: has captured national headlines, taken over social media, and leaves

607
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,880
Speaker 1: a small town divided. This is a must see TV event.

608
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 1: It features exclusive interviews that take you inside the investigation

609
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,919
Speaker 1: as a search for answers and justice goes on. Unspeakable

610
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 1: crime The Killing of Jessica Chambers Saturdays at seven six

611
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: Central on Oxygen, the new network for Crime