WEBVTT - Steven Rinella | The Man Behind MeatEater 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:02.279 Well, Steve, thanks for being on, man. 0:00:03.279 --> 0:00:05.480 I appreciate the chance. Sorry it took so long and 0:00:05.559 --> 0:00:06.520 I was late and everything. 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:09.080 Man, I've been last night. 0:00:09.080 --> 0:00:11.240 I was actually trying to put together, like, how would 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:13.640 I if I were going to write a doctrinal statement 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:18.079 on Steve Vanella? Like what what kind of thesis would 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:20.759 I come up with? Because you're you're all over the 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:24.400 place with so many projects, especially the last say three 0:00:24.520 --> 0:00:30.319 or four years. So many projects. Hm, So let me 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:30.560 tell you. 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:31.120 What I was thinking. 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:34.440 You can't I need I'm going to write this down 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:35.680 because I need this. 0:00:36.080 --> 0:00:39.760 Well, you can't. You can't say. You can't say that 0:00:39.960 --> 0:00:42.320 at Steve's core is a hunter. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:45.560 You can't really say that because if you if you 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.640 run that out to its most logical conclusion, then some 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:52.800 things don't make sense. You can't say, at Steve's core, 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:59.279 he's like a a wild game enthusiast. You are, but 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.760 it's not your or there's something else. And so you 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:07.080 can't say that you're an outdoorsman at your core, because 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:09.720 there's other things that, if it runs out to its 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:12.680 most logical conclusion, don't make sense either. So I was 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.840 thinking about it, and I think you could I mean, 0:01:16.040 --> 0:01:17.800 it's used. You can crack me from the wrong but 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:20.400 but I think at your core is a storyteller. 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:25.240 Mm yeah, I usually will say right, or an outdoorsman, 0:01:26.280 --> 0:01:28.920 but sure, I like storyteller. I don't know if that's 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:31.120 the kind of thing you can say about yourself, though, 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.840 you know, it's more like maybe something someone else has say. 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:38.880 Well, look, I think when I think about you, there 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:41.080 was a there was a moment for me. And this 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:43.399 might sound weird, but there was a moment on an 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:49.520 airplane somewhere. It's probably three years ago, and I'm watching 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:56.080 Meat Eater on my phone on the plane, and to 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:59.680 bring in the scene, it's like, you know, a mountain 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:05.080 scale ape and and time laps, clouds, fog, a rolling 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:11.160 river turning over on itself. This like real melodic, droning 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:15.400 piano song, real pensive starts playing. And then and then 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.800 the camera's on the ground and here comes you know, 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.440 these boots walking by, and that's that's our hero walking by. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:25.760 And and who's he with. He's not, he's not with 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:30.960 a celebrity to hunt with. He's with his brother. You know, me, 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.079 coming coming from a family, I got two brothers. Here 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:36.480 here he is with his brother. So I'm locked in 0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:40.680 on the scene, right, And I watched this the whole episode. 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:45.240 It's called Walking the Clouds. And you guys are you 0:02:45.280 --> 0:02:49.400 guys are doll sheep hunting, which is the hardest of 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:54.560 the of the hunts in North America, right arguably. And 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:58.760 you guys, you chase these sheep. Sometimes you see them, 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:02.840 sometimes you don't. Sometimes you see a legal ram, but 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:03.760 you can't get to them. 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.120 You run out of time that the show ends and 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:08.760 you never got one. 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.960 Yeah, and I thought I watched the whole show and 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:13.440 I was actually entertaining you. 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:15.640 Did you feel you didn't feel like you got ripped off? 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.840 No, that's the crazy thing I want to say. I 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.640 didn't feel ripped off. I felt drawn into a story 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:24.760 of a storyteller. This is how you ended it. This 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.960 is what you said in the end. You get to 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:29.920 a point where you just have to give up and 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:33.480 go home. The land beat you or the sheep beat 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.240 you just by running out the clock. Now, all you 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.680 have is a long walk out and plenty of time 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.760 to spend in your own head to think about how 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.840 you'll get too old to do this. Eventually, getting back 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:48.000 into places like this could break your body. Knees give out, 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:52.200 backs go bad, lungs, get tired and half useless. That's 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.480 the painful thing to look ahead to. But it's not 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.920 nearly as bad as to think about. Leaving this place 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.680 breaks your body, the other breaks your heart. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:06.400 Scene ends, show over. 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:10.640 That's a story till that's all sheep hunting right there. 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:12.880 That's incredible. 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.320 Oh, thanks, man, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. We 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.640 used to worry when we started doing need Eater. We 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.240 used to really worry about what would happen to you 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:30.919 if you had unsuccessful episodes, But we didn't. You know, 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.680 you put all that time into going and filming one, 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:37.080 and you kind of map out your year, you know, 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:39.480 and you're gonna go make let's say you're gonna go 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:45.160 make eight episodes, and you go spend six seven days 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.479 on something and you don't get anything. 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:50.919 When we started doing it, we didn't have any options, 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:51.120 you know. 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:55.000 We had to figure out a way to to run 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.599 with them. The impulse would have been that you'd bury 0:04:57.640 --> 0:05:01.440 it somehow, you know, we just didn't have It was 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:03.440 funny because the decision was made for us. 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:05.440 We just didn't have a way to get the time back. 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:06.080 Yeah. 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.000 So we learned how to do them, and it was. 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.160 It was, yeah, when you're out, you're really pushing as 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.039 hard as you can to be successful. Like I like, 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:19.200 you know, I like to be successful, and you're pushing 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.479 really hard to be successful. And when you're not, I 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:27.520 never think to myself, oh great, we weren't successful. Now 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:29.800 we can make a skunker episode. And that's what we 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:34.479 would call him, is making skunkers. Yeah, but we just 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:36.400 learned to, you know, we learned to deal with them. 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:38.280 And it was fun because it was one of the 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:39.919 ways in which I kind of fell in love with 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:45.719 the audience is because people, for the most part, were 0:05:45.720 --> 0:05:46.560 supportive of it. 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.080 I remember getting one email or in the early. 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.240 Days of making The Meat Eater, I remember getting an 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:56.919 email from a guy and he had said, I have enough. 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.880 Failure and disappointment in my life. I don't need to 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:03.000 get it from my TV. 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:09.159 That's a man trained, depressed, so depressed man. 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.159 He's just been trained by the mindless hunting shows that 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:15.680 have come for decades that the whole trailer is the 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.360 is the kill shot, and the animal falls and like 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:21.040 and the music plays and and it's all leading to that, 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.039 and then your show comes around and sometimes you don't 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:24.679 get anything. 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:29.960 And for me, I'm like, yeah, sometimes we don't. Sometimes 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:34.400 sometimes we didn't don't and uh, but man, it wasn't. 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:35.960 I'm promised and you do. 0:06:36.120 --> 0:06:37.520 It wasn't because we weren't trying. 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:42.640 That's evident in the show Man. That's evident. 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.560 And and then your your storytelling though it's uh, I 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.560 mean was it somebody Was it a producer or a manager, 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.840 or was somebody like, hey, Steve, now we got to 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:55.679 start writing books, we got to start getting your voice 0:06:55.760 --> 0:07:00.440 recorded for uh campfire stories. I mean, you took this, 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.880 this whole this whole universe of your your world, your 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:10.240 your brand has gotten it's so wrapped around the storytelling. 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:14.080 And hunting has always been about the storytelling from the 0:07:14.080 --> 0:07:14.920 beginning of time. 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:19.040 It's always a it's never just about the kill. It's 0:07:19.080 --> 0:07:19.880 about the setup. 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:23.560 It's about the campfire before the hunt, and the campfire 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:25.040 after and eating. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:28.960 Of the animals. It's always been that. And this is you. 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:32.320 Is this somebody else's idea or were you the guy 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.960 that was like, hey, let me tell the story. 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:37.920 No. I started out like I was a writer before anything, 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:39.440 you know, when I was, when I was a kid, 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.320 I wanted to be a even I mean beyond being kid. 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.560 And from time I was ten to twenty two, I 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:50.640 was really pushing to be a fur trapper and that 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.200 was my main interest. And I became interested in writing. 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.440 I went to graduate school for writing, so I'm like 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:04.080 a trained writer, formally trained, and uh started doing magazine work. 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.320 I did books before I ever did any kind of television. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:07.760 You know. 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:12.600 In fact, doing TV stuff came out of doing books, 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:16.520 and then doing doing a podcast and other stuff came 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.200 out of being a writer. So you know, I was 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:23.800 born a writer. I'll die a writer in a lot 0:08:23.840 --> 0:08:24.160 of ways. 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.960 I you know, earlier were Joe, I'm not joking, but 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:29.720 you were bringing up how to describe it, and I 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:32.079 said that I I always tell you know, I was 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.720 described like and I'm an author and outdoorsman or a 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:35.760 writer and outdoorsman. 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:40.560 I feel like the very stuff I've been involved in 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:42.840 is I look at it all from the perspective of 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:46.920 being a writer, you know first and foremost, and then 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:52.280 you know, doing the writing on the show is I 0:08:52.360 --> 0:08:54.320 kind of think of like, you know, I'm hosting it, 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:55.959 you know, but I kind of more think of I'm like, 0:08:56.120 --> 0:08:57.240 I'm like writing it, you know. 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:00.800 That's that's how I picture in my. 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:06.839 Head, even if a camera wasn't there, you're writing. You're 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:10.680 writing the story, whether you're just telling to your kids 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.360 or telling to your friends, this is just who you are. 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:16.480 Yeah, I think that that's a little bit. 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.600 Yeah, I think that that's that way. But I should 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:21.640 also admit that when I'm just out hunting around, you know, 0:09:21.679 --> 0:09:24.280 by my hunting with my bodies or hunting with my 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:31.240 with my kids, I'm I'm pretty far away from I'm 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:34.240 pretty far away from thinking about narrative, you know. I mean, 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:37.920 I guess I like, you know, we'll tell a lot 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.400 of stories, and we relive a lot of stories around home, 0:09:41.240 --> 0:09:43.760 But I don't for me to sit down and make 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:46.839 sense of it for somebody else, for me to sit 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.360 down and like tell a story that would engage someone 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.400 who wasn't there or doesn't share in the memory, I 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.360 need to like to sit down and be very deliberate 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.120 about that process, right, you know. 0:09:58.559 --> 0:10:00.200 I think I even. 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:06.360 I spend so much time reliving recapturing experiences when I'm 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:11.319 having the experiences, I'm not I'm not really in that space. Right. 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:13.480 That's why if you think of like if you look 0:10:13.480 --> 0:10:18.480 at the Medeater show, there's a lot of what we 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:23.160 call VO, right, it's VO heavy, and and we write 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.559 like like I write the VO, so an editor will 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:29.520 write like a scratch like an editor will make placeholders 0:10:29.559 --> 0:10:31.600 for VO, and then I come in and write the VO. 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.920 So one could look like if you look generally in production, 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:39.520 the way you would generally view it is you would 0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:43.280 view that that VO is not good. So if you're 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:48.920 watching nonfiction television and there's a lot of VO, you 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.199 might look and be like it's emblematic of or a 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:56.959 symptom of poor hosting because the host in the field 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:01.040 didn't do the job. So then you're stuck filling in 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:04.440 all these blanks and doing all this interstitial stuff and 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.000 making all these connections because you screwed up in the 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:11.960 field and didn't give it to camera. So it's normally, 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:15.360 like a lot of producers with regard doing vos, it's 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:19.760 a big giant band aid for what didn't get done, 0:11:20.160 --> 0:11:21.240 for what didn't get. 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:22.680 Executed properly in the field. 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:27.360 But we came to it because I'm like writing an 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:30.840 AMA writer and was first known writer. We came to 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:34.880 it viewing it like like VO was an asset for us. 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:38.920 It wasn't just a crutch, it was a strength. And 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:41.880 so we would just we would kind of you could 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.440 almost be a little bit lazier filming, knowing that you 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:51.040 were going to build this this vo narrative that was 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:54.640 going to help you patch all this stuff together. And 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:56.599 so you know, as we kind of like put the 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.000 show together, that's just sort of what we fell into 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:03.800 where we fell into it being like very reliant, very 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:09.600 reliant on narration vo narration, right, And I've always enjoyed 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:10.199 that man. 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.440 That me too, And I understand that critique, but I 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:17.240 don't agree with that critique because I do the vo 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.280 from meat Eater is what drew me in. And no 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:23.360 one ever told that to Anthony Bourdain. His whole show 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.880 was was successful because of that in its unique way, 0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.680 because of his writing and his vow work, and it 0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:33.520 would it would be a really shallow critique to say 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:35.360 that's just because he wasn't very good in the field, 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:36.280 he wasn't good on the fly. 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.880 Well, you know, the guys, the whole the people I 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:41.280 started making meedatter with. 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:42.840 Were all Boordain crew. 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.679 Yeah, yeah, you know, so that was and it's funny. 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:50.280 I'm just did a show, you know, the History Channel 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:54.280 show we're launching right now. The show runner that I 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:58.000 worked with on that show was the first camera guy 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.839 that ever filmed all the first media up and then 0:13:00.880 --> 0:13:03.600 he became a He was a camera guy for Boordain 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.679 and then became a producer for Boordain and he actually 0:13:07.840 --> 0:13:11.720 produced the Bourdain's last full show. They never cut it 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.080 into an episode, but his last full show in Italy 0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:17.720 was this same guy produced it. So you know, I 0:13:17.760 --> 0:13:19.680 wasn't buddies with him. I knew him, but we weren't 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:24.960 like buddies at all Boordain, you know, I mean, like 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:26.800 like I knew him, but we weren't pals. 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:28.560 But anyway, there was a lot of. 0:13:30.120 --> 0:13:33.640 There was a lot of overlap in us both winding 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.160 up with the same production place, winding up with a 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:39.840 lot of the same crew, both coming from writing. You know, 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:44.000 in some ways I think that maybe when when I 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:46.960 started into that, there was a template that I walked 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:49.760 into that had been established by him. You know, I 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:51.880 didn't think about it at the time, but looking back 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.200 from a more of a long term perspective, I kind 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.680 of walked into his template because I walked into working 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.400 with guys who were used to that. Yeah, they were 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:05.520 used to that, having a writer building story, you know, 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.000 from a from a writerly perspective. 0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.640 Right, yeah, man, it's a It's shawsh Ank Redemption. You know, 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:15.200 it's Morgan Freeman, Andy, Andy Dufraye, you know, walked in 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:17.760 and and I love that. 0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:19.720 Your your show, your new show. 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:24.240 When I first read it, I read it as hunting history, 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.400 and then I realized that I was reading it wrong, 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:30.400 and as I researched, I was, no, it's hunting history. 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.520 Yeah. No, I think a lot of people that was 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:40.560 that's a forgivable, forgivable mistake, considering the considering the host. 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.760 I could one could be forgiven for making that mistake. Yeah, yeah, 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.040 hunt down history like taking a hunter. 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:47.520 Un back down history? 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:52.480 Yeah yeah, whose idea was that? How did you get 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.400 brought into that? Because that's I think it's a perfect match. 0:14:56.000 --> 0:15:00.760 I love history myself, but it's it's an somebody made 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.240 a really interesting connection to put you in on this. 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:04.600 Yeah. 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:11.120 You know what though, it's like my first book. 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:15.440 I published my first book in twenty two thousand and 0:15:15.480 --> 0:15:19.400 four to somewhere around two thousand and three, two thousand 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.200 and four, so quite a long time ago. My first 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:27.040 book was called The Scavenger's Guide to Oak Cuisine, and 0:15:27.120 --> 0:15:27.800 it was a. 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:29.320 Book about a book. 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:32.880 It was a book about this crazy French cookbook that 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.160 came out in nineteen oh three. So like that's like 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.960 the year the Right Brothers did their first you know 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:44.520 flight with a heavier than air vehicle, right, and this 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:48.840 guy A. Scofier wrote this five thousand recipe compendium about 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.440 French cuisine. And so my first book was about going 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.520 hunting and fishing to catch all the stuff from that cookbook. 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:03.520 My second book was about the history of the American buffalo, 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.960 the animal. Right, it was like the history of a species, 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:09.360 had a lot of hunting in it. My first book, 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.880 again was a history of It's like about like French food, 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:13.840 but had a lot of hunting fishing in it. My 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:16.560 buffalo book was the history of the animal, had a 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:19.960 lot of hunting and fishing in it. As a magazine writer, 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.360 I did like I wrote stuff about like the colonial French, 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:26.440 you know, all kinds of things. So I'd always like. 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:28.520 Dealt heavily in history. 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.840 We did. We have a thing me eaters American history, 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.880 these audio originals we do about history. So I've always 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.800 been a player in history, and it's always been very 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.200 interested in history, and I've always been very. 0:16:41.960 --> 0:16:43.000 Interested in hunting. 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:47.520 So for me to do a history show, people that 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.200 are familiar with my TV show Me Eater might look 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.280 at it like it like it being different than what 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.360 I would normally be engaged in. But if anyone who 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:59.920 was accustomed to what I wrote, the stuff I've written, 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.000 you know, it's my stuff's always been very heavily informed 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:10.040 by by history and then, and so in that way, 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.600 it just felt more that way, it felt more like 0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:16.439 a like a continuation of what I've already been up to. 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:20.000 The difference here being is that in some of the cases, 0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:26.280 rather than really long deep dives into subjects, doing an 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.879 hour long show where you tackle a whole subject in 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.960 an hour, it's kind of like more fun and cursory 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:37.000 than it is to do like book length explorations of subjects. Right, 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:37.719 it's breeze. 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:39.520 It's breezy and entertaining. 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.280 You know, that's a good way to look at it. Yeah, 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:45.280 And I saw I saw in the episodes last night, and. 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:49.879 It's it's it's breezy, it's it moves quicker even that 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.280 even than mediator in a lot of ways, it moves quicker. 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.280 We don't have depensive piano, uh you know on the 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.760 History Channel with this Uh, but it's it's still super 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.280 cool and it's it's it's such an extension of your 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:06.360 brand that works so well. I also listened to that 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.480 that audio, what did you call. 0:18:08.359 --> 0:18:11.080 It, Media's American History? 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:15.000 Yeah? That that that was so that was so engaging. 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:15.480 It's good. 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:17.359 Did you listen to the one about the Long Hunters 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.200 did and the Long Hunters? Yeah? 0:18:19.320 --> 0:18:22.359 Yeah, yeah, because you know, I'm sitting here looking at 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.200 this and like, yeah, he's getting got the new show 0:18:24.320 --> 0:18:28.240 on the History Channel, Hunting History. But then I started realizing, 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:31.679 but that's I mean, that's what's new right now. But 0:18:31.800 --> 0:18:35.720 I mean there's some of that stuff. Was the the 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:38.720 Mountain Men, I mean that was like last year you 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.359 put that out, So there's a lot of recent things. 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.840 Yeah, yeah, the Long Yeah, so we're gonna do we're 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:50.919 actually working on this series of things. Like you know, 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.800 as an outdoorsman, you'll you'll kind of appreciate these names 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:57.000 that pop up, like you know, you know Daniel Boone, Yeah, 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.960 he's some of a household name. Jim Bridge or John Colt. 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:05.000 So we're doing as we're breaking up American history into 0:19:05.040 --> 0:19:08.359 these chunks and looking at market hunters from these different eras. 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:12.000 So people know Daniel Boone, Not many people know that 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:15.480 like what he actually did, like what his actual job was. 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.359 Daniel Boone was a deer skin hunter. Like he hunted 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.560 deer for the skins, and these skins were exported to 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.880 Europe and turned into leather. If you see those old 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.600 paintings like kings from the seventeen Hunters and they got 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:32.480 those white pants on those white breeches, those are probably 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:33.480 American buckskin. 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:34.080 Wow. 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:37.720 So that's what Boone did for living. He did other 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:38.760 stuff too, He hunted for. 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:41.919 Bear grease, you know, oil made from bears, but he 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:46.040 mostly hunted deer skins. And we kind of break up 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.399 American history where we look at the deer skin trade 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:53.679 from seventeen sixty three to seventeen seventy five, and we 0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:58.159 sort of argue why seventeen sixty three there was the 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.760 end of a frontier war, and so these hunters could 0:20:01.800 --> 0:20:05.679 kind of push into Kentucky and it wasn't as risky 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:09.000 for them to go there. They hunted from sixty three 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:12.560 seventy five everybody knows seventeen seventy five what comes next. 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:16.680 Seventeen seventy six the American Revolution and the frontier got 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:21.480 untenable again. The frontier got very bloody after the Revolution began. 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.680 So we look at like these these guys and we 0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:26.520 know them now as well. They were actually known in 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:28.359 their time. They were known as long hunters, and it 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.000 had to do with the length of their trips, you know, 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.560 they were going very long hunts, hunting deerskins. The next 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.000 one we're jumping into is eighteen oh six, eighteen forty 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:39.000 and it's the beaver skin trade, and that's called me 0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:41.960 Eaters American History of the Mountain Men, and it covers 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:45.280 figures like Jed Smith, John Colter, Jim Bridger, who were 0:20:45.320 --> 0:20:48.440 all just rocky mountain beaver trappers. And then when the 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:51.760 beaver market collapsed, all the attention moved to the buffalo 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:53.560 hide hunters. And so the next one will do is 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.880 the buffalo hide hunters will probably run that. Eighteen sixty 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:01.200 five to eighteen eighty two, a big herd was shout 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:05.120 out the winner of eighty two and eighteen sixty five 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.000 was the end of the Civil War, and a lot 0:21:07.040 --> 0:21:09.640 of guys were coming out of that war going west 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:16.280 to hunt Buffalo. So it's all these really detailed examinations 0:21:16.320 --> 0:21:21.000 of sort of the economy and life ways and skill 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:26.720 sets of these like American archetypes, you know, but also 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.399 what drove the economy to be that way? You know. 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:32.360 And again they're really they're they're they're like. 0:21:32.400 --> 0:21:33.840 Deep dives into these things. 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:35.520 But it's fun to do because I feel like that 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:39.920 is you know, I've read about that for my whole life, 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:41.800 and so it's fun to get it down, you know, 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:42.760 to get the work down. 0:21:43.200 --> 0:21:45.320 And I love this about you. But what is the 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:50.679 affinity for North America for you? Are you concentrate everything? 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:53.560 I mean, I love that, but what what is it? 0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:54.399 What is it about you? 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:57.560 I don't know. I always tell people when people are 0:21:57.560 --> 0:21:59.479 talking about other stuff, I always tell them I'm just 0:21:59.480 --> 0:22:04.720 like way to American to understand. I just feel like, 0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:07.920 I'm so like completely American, dude, I can't. 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:09.520 Even like I have a hard time. 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:13.280 I like to read about geopolitics, but I just have 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:15.520 a hard time understanding and know. One thing I'll joke 0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:19.040 about with people is like, you know, if you're in America, 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:22.800 where you be if I'm in America and I see 0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:24.840 a dude walking down the road. You know what I mean, 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:28.040 I be like, that guy looks like he said the work. 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:30.440 That guy looks like his truck broke down and he's 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:32.920 in trouble. That guy looks like whatever, you know what 0:22:32.920 --> 0:22:35.680 I mean, Like, I just can't tell what's going on. 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.120 And when you're in another country and you see someone 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:39.600 walking down the road, You're like, I have no idea 0:22:39.640 --> 0:22:41.320 what that dude's doing walking down the road. 0:22:42.119 --> 0:22:45.520 I agree, that's the way. 0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:49.679 I got to stick to the place where I just 0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:51.200 feel like I know what's going on. 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:55.920 Okay, I mean there's more to it. But also, yes, 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:59.000 I agree, I hear you. But you have a love. 0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:03.480 You have an American love. Yeah, yeah, the contain. 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:05.840 Of America love like the country for sure. But also 0:23:06.760 --> 0:23:09.560 I guess, yeah, you know, every man, It's funny. 0:23:09.600 --> 0:23:13.040 I got a buddy who he had this guy that 0:23:13.119 --> 0:23:13.640 worked for him. 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:15.919 He had a ranch manager that worked for him, and 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:19.119 he once went to get the ranch manager a talk, 0:23:19.240 --> 0:23:22.760 you know, like about kind of expanding his role in 0:23:22.880 --> 0:23:25.200 the ranch manager and said to him, you know, every 0:23:25.240 --> 0:23:27.760 man's got his limits, and just I kind of have 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:31.280 my limits, like like I'm very into. 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:34.800 I don't care how far back you. 0:23:34.720 --> 0:23:36.679 Go in North America, Like I don't care if you 0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:39.640 go back twenty thousand years. I remained comfortable in North 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:43.400 America talking about North America twenty thousand years ago, but 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:46.720 I wouldn't be comfortable talking about Europe today. I don't 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:49.639 have any subject matter expertise, you know. So it's just 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:53.479 like I like the American story, the American characters. It's huge, 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:57.080 it's a big subject. I just I will you know, 0:23:57.119 --> 0:24:00.160 earlier I talked about writing a book about French food. 0:24:00.240 --> 0:24:02.240 But when I wrote a book about French food, I 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:04.800 talked about French food as understood in America. 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:09.520 Sure, has there been a place that you've traveled in 0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:14.240 North America that has surprised you or that you continually 0:24:14.280 --> 0:24:17.960 think of as like the pinnacle of this is where 0:24:18.000 --> 0:24:21.240 Steve has to go this one area. 0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:26.880 Yeah, the thing that most has blown me away is now, 0:24:26.960 --> 0:24:28.879 Like I don't go a day in my household without 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:30.960 saying to my kids or my wife, I'm like, you know, 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:33.120 the Cajuns. 0:24:34.040 --> 0:24:36.280 When I started hanging out, like, I don't know what 0:24:36.400 --> 0:24:42.760 takes me so long? Louisiana was the last Louisiana. 0:24:41.840 --> 0:24:45.520 Was the it was the last state. It was the 0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:46.879 state I've never been to. So I've been to all 0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:48.760 forty nine out of fifty states. Like an I count 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:50.840 like spending the night, not just on the airport, but 0:24:50.920 --> 0:24:55.800 spending the night, okay, and had been there two the 0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:57.040 first time I was going there. 0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:00.119 We had made it as far as like we're going 0:25:00.160 --> 0:25:01.000 from Memphis to. 0:25:01.560 --> 0:25:06.280 Louisiana, made it as far as the delta in Mississippi close, 0:25:07.160 --> 0:25:09.679 and they're like Adams, the big hurricane coming and we 0:25:09.760 --> 0:25:12.520 sort of thought about it, decided not to go to 0:25:12.640 --> 0:25:16.960 New Orleans and it was Hurricane Katrina. The guy. Then 0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:18.800 we made another trip to go down there and had 0:25:18.840 --> 0:25:22.440 another hurricane happen and didn't go, and it eventually made 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:27.240 it and and kind of fell in with hanging out 0:25:27.280 --> 0:25:32.719 with Cajun dudes, and I mean guys that like they 0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:34.639 don't even know that they don't know the names for 0:25:34.760 --> 0:25:37.800 ducks that we use. Like they still use the French 0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:40.240 names for their ducks, right, they used the French names 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:44.000 for their fit inshore fish, you know, and they when 0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:46.040 they're cooking stuff, they got a word. You're like, what 0:25:46.480 --> 0:25:49.040 you know, I can't like all the French words for 0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:54.399 the food, French words for the ingredients like that. How 0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:59.439 just impressive that culture is in the level of like 0:25:59.560 --> 0:26:07.800 culture continuity and cultural identity, that that that the Cajuns 0:26:08.200 --> 0:26:08.760 held on to. 0:26:10.800 --> 0:26:12.600 And I say, the Accagians, you know, you know it 0:26:12.680 --> 0:26:15.520 probably sound like some kind of uh like a like 0:26:15.560 --> 0:26:16.960 an idiot. 0:26:16.560 --> 0:26:19.800 Saying, like the occasions there's like this monolithic thing called 0:26:19.800 --> 0:26:22.800 the Caagents, but it just it blew my mind, you 0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:29.320 know that like the food, the language, the customs, and man. 0:26:29.560 --> 0:26:33.480 I yeah, uh, if I had found out about that 0:26:33.600 --> 0:26:38.680 world when I was eighteen, I probably would have tried 0:26:38.720 --> 0:26:41.159 to like perfect a French accent and I would have 0:26:41.160 --> 0:26:45.000 gone and tried to like slip in you know, we'll 0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:46.120 join in, right. 0:26:46.440 --> 0:26:49.160 I Mean, I love all of our Louisian listeners right now, 0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:51.320 but I did not think that's where you're going up 0:26:51.359 --> 0:26:54.879 there at that question anywhere in North Americaia. 0:26:55.080 --> 0:26:58.879 Yea. That yeah, that like blew my mind, man, Like 0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:01.600 I always heard about it, but like that's the thing 0:27:01.640 --> 0:27:04.840 that's really shocked me, is uh just my love of 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:08.200 that of that little corner, you know, that corner of 0:27:08.200 --> 0:27:08.480 the world. 0:27:08.520 --> 0:27:08.639 Man. 0:27:08.680 --> 0:27:10.720 And I've always been a northern guy. I've always lived 0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:13.639 in the northern tier states, Montana, Michigan, like I've always 0:27:13.680 --> 0:27:16.960 lived up North Washington, always touching Canada. You know. 0:27:18.119 --> 0:27:19.760 I just want to tell everybody that's listening right now, 0:27:19.800 --> 0:27:21.760 all the Louisiana people, this is a man who's been 0:27:21.800 --> 0:27:24.840 dull shee putting, you know, at the top of Alaska 0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:26.520 where you could see the whole world, and he's saying, 0:27:26.840 --> 0:27:28.360 I like Louis Louisiana. 0:27:29.080 --> 0:27:31.639 I like the Cajuns. Oh that's iggressive. 0:27:32.240 --> 0:27:33.680 That's like you all that. 0:27:34.160 --> 0:27:36.080 Food they got and all the words they got for 0:27:36.119 --> 0:27:36.639 their ducks. 0:27:36.680 --> 0:27:38.920 I love it. Man. Yeah, that's one of the coolest 0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:41.000 things about talking to the Cajuns. I'll leave. 0:27:41.320 --> 0:27:43.439 I won't talk about this all the time, I promise you. 0:27:43.440 --> 0:27:47.200 But what's funny is like like having all the words 0:27:47.240 --> 0:27:49.600 for knowing, all the French words for ducks, and the 0:27:49.600 --> 0:27:52.879 French words for all the inshore fish, you know. And 0:27:53.320 --> 0:27:55.400 what's funny is like if you get to the offshore 0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:57.159 fish like in the golf, okay, you get out, you 0:27:57.200 --> 0:28:01.280 can got wahoo, yellow tail, all these offshore fish, and 0:28:01.280 --> 0:28:03.560 that'd be like, well, what's the French word for right, 0:28:03.640 --> 0:28:07.159 like yellowfin? Tuna, Like what's the French word yellowfintuna And 0:28:07.480 --> 0:28:08.760 they don't have any of those words. 0:28:09.760 --> 0:28:11.240 And one of my buddies pointed. 0:28:11.000 --> 0:28:12.800 Out to me, is like at that time, no one 0:28:12.880 --> 0:28:15.600 knew that stuff was out there, Like twenty miles into 0:28:15.600 --> 0:28:17.399 the golf you might have been on another You might 0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:18.720 as well have been on another planet. 0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:19.880 Oh yeah, that's true. 0:28:20.040 --> 0:28:22.919 Like people were in it, Like people weren't aware that 0:28:23.119 --> 0:28:25.360 twenty miles out there in the blue water were like. 0:28:25.320 --> 0:28:28.160 Wow, and oh yeah, you know what I mean. 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:32.199 They were like redfish, trout right whatever. And it was 0:28:32.240 --> 0:28:36.920 so so they never incorporated as close as it seems now, 0:28:37.400 --> 0:28:39.200 as close as it seems now, it was never like 0:28:39.840 --> 0:28:41.200 no one had a way to get out there. 0:28:41.280 --> 0:28:42.920 You know, you were rowing, you were. 0:28:43.040 --> 0:28:46.520 Paddling out there, so they don't have names. Yeah, it 0:28:46.640 --> 0:28:47.080 was like it was. 0:28:47.080 --> 0:28:48.920 Just it was there, but it wasn't there. It was there, 0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:50.120 but like I said, it might as well have been 0:28:50.120 --> 0:28:50.880 on another planet. 0:28:51.200 --> 0:28:52.040 That's that's wild. 0:28:52.920 --> 0:28:55.600 Well, I hope that you've heard already about EEE Festival 0:28:55.640 --> 0:28:57.880 that is May ninth and tenth. You could come see 0:28:57.920 --> 0:29:01.120 me and all the gang at the farm. We've got 0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:03.520 all kinds of crazy things that are gonna be happening. 0:29:03.600 --> 0:29:05.920 It's good for the whole family. I really really think 0:29:05.920 --> 0:29:08.040 you'll love it. So go to ye ye dot com 0:29:08.040 --> 0:29:10.880 for more info. If you like the content in this podcast, 0:29:10.920 --> 0:29:14.600 hey consider sharing it with a friend, subscribing to this podcast, 0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:18.000 giving it a good review if you want, and commenting 0:29:18.080 --> 0:29:20.320 on the YouTube page. These are all things that help 0:29:20.400 --> 0:29:23.280 this podcast reach more people. If you want to get 0:29:23.320 --> 0:29:25.040 a hold of me personally, you go to cameo dot 0:29:25.080 --> 0:29:27.400 com slash granger Smith. I can make you a video 0:29:27.520 --> 0:29:30.720 message for anything that you want. It could be happy birthday, 0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:33.520 happy anniversary, maybe just a word of encouragement. Go to 0:29:33.560 --> 0:29:37.480 cameo dot com slash granger Smith. Your dad he got 0:29:37.520 --> 0:29:39.239 you into hunting? Could you say that? 0:29:39.320 --> 0:29:39.560 Yep? 0:29:39.760 --> 0:29:41.680 Dad is your dad? Shall around my dad? 0:29:42.200 --> 0:29:45.160 Oh no, see no, see my dad he had me 0:29:45.160 --> 0:29:47.840 in My dad would be one hundred one years old. 0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:51.240 He had me in nineteen twenty four, Earth not had me? 0:29:51.240 --> 0:29:53.440 What am I saying? He was born in nineteen twenty four, 0:29:54.600 --> 0:29:58.280 fought World War Two, enlisted at seventeen. 0:30:00.080 --> 0:30:01.120 Font World War Two. 0:30:01.320 --> 0:30:04.280 It came home and was just a big hunter and fishermen. 0:30:04.720 --> 0:30:09.800 So I was always brought up around hunting, fishing, and uh, 0:30:10.640 --> 0:30:12.080 and you know he didn't trap. 0:30:12.200 --> 0:30:13.840 He didn't he didn't trap, but I. 0:30:13.800 --> 0:30:16.640 Got into trapping and he was very supportive of trapping, 0:30:17.240 --> 0:30:18.640 and uh and. 0:30:19.840 --> 0:30:22.400 He I got lucky with those guys. 0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:26.040 I got lucky, like with my mom and dad in 0:30:26.080 --> 0:30:27.320 a lot of ways. But one of the ways I 0:30:27.320 --> 0:30:29.360 got lucky with them is they didn't you know, my 0:30:29.400 --> 0:30:31.320 dad didn't finish high school right formally. 0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:36.120 So for them, you know, when you meet people like 0:30:36.120 --> 0:30:36.760 I've met a lot of. 0:30:36.720 --> 0:30:38.959 People like this in my life, who's who they they 0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:41.640 get a lot of family pressure to go into things 0:30:41.680 --> 0:30:45.320 that maybe they don't want to go into, you know, occupationally. 0:30:46.280 --> 0:30:48.320 And and I have kids, and we pressure our kids. 0:30:48.640 --> 0:30:50.479 We don't pressure about what they do, but we pressure 0:30:50.480 --> 0:30:52.960 them about their performance in school, right, We pressure them. 0:30:52.840 --> 0:30:57.320 About how they treat their elders whatever. Like we pressure them. 0:30:57.720 --> 0:31:01.360 But but for when I said, oh, yeah, I'm going 0:31:01.400 --> 0:31:03.280 to be a trapper, it was kind of like, oh, 0:31:03.320 --> 0:31:05.120 that's great. It's a good idea. And I'm like, oh, 0:31:05.160 --> 0:31:07.440 I'm gonna be a writer. That's a great idea. Like 0:31:08.120 --> 0:31:11.080 never had any sort of pushing in a in a 0:31:11.120 --> 0:31:13.760 different direction. And for me, like because my dad was 0:31:13.760 --> 0:31:17.760 a big outdoorsman. When I started getting a little success 0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:21.320 writing about hunting and writing about fishing and writing about 0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:25.760 the outdoors, he just thought that was great, you know. 0:31:26.880 --> 0:31:29.160 He thought that was a great move. And the fact 0:31:29.200 --> 0:31:34.239 that you had to live for many years below the 0:31:34.360 --> 0:31:36.960 poverty level. I always point out to people that, like, 0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:40.240 if you don't have if you're not married, you don't 0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:42.600 have kids, there's no such thing as being poor. You're broke, 0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:45.000 but you're not poor like poor is later, you know. 0:31:45.360 --> 0:31:48.040 So I just lived for a long time without any 0:31:48.080 --> 0:31:54.240 real serious income, but in like my parents' minds, I 0:31:54.320 --> 0:31:58.120 was like very successful because I had chased something kind 0:31:58.120 --> 0:32:01.320 of weird and did it, you know, and so it 0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:04.080 was cool like that, like that that with my dad, 0:32:04.280 --> 0:32:07.320 as much as he enjoyed that hunting and fishing to 0:32:07.360 --> 0:32:09.520 see for him to see his kid kind of make 0:32:09.560 --> 0:32:11.480 away in that, he like, he liked that a lot. 0:32:14.680 --> 0:32:19.120 He died right after the it was right after the 0:32:19.200 --> 0:32:21.840 terror attacks. No, it was either right before or right 0:32:21.880 --> 0:32:23.560 after the terror attacks. 0:32:25.000 --> 0:32:27.080 Before almost I think he. 0:32:27.080 --> 0:32:30.120 Died that December. I think maybe it was that December. 0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:33.400 He died, So that was before most of the world 0:32:33.480 --> 0:32:36.960 knew of you and meat eater, and oh. 0:32:36.880 --> 0:32:40.080 Yeah, I was like, oh yeah, there was nothing like that. 0:32:40.240 --> 0:32:42.640 I mean, he died before I published my first book, 0:32:43.880 --> 0:32:45.880 but I was I was a magazine writer. I was 0:32:45.920 --> 0:32:50.240 a magazine writer. And and I remember, like I wrote 0:32:50.240 --> 0:32:51.720 a couple of things, you know, I did some stuff 0:32:51.760 --> 0:32:54.320 in field and stream and did some stuff and outside. 0:32:54.360 --> 0:32:56.040 And I remember the last time I hung out with 0:32:56.080 --> 0:32:58.960 him before he got real sick. We were down in 0:32:59.000 --> 0:33:02.480 Floorida fishing and we were going to buy shrimp, you know, 0:33:03.360 --> 0:33:05.640 and he's like, uh, you know, you can tell he's 0:33:05.680 --> 0:33:07.680 like waiting for someone to He's like, you don't know 0:33:07.680 --> 0:33:09.520 who this is, you know, he's like waiting for someone 0:33:09.680 --> 0:33:11.880 like recognize me, because written a field. 0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:15.480 That's a good dad. 0:33:18.080 --> 0:33:22.440 That's a good dad. Yeah, not realizing that no one 0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:26.040 reads who wrote the articles they're reading in magazine. No 0:33:26.080 --> 0:33:27.400 one looks at the author's name. 0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:31.680 That's amazing, man. I love I love that. I love 0:33:31.720 --> 0:33:32.640 that hilarious. 0:33:32.680 --> 0:33:36.360 So you your kids, you said you you put pressure 0:33:36.400 --> 0:33:40.600 on them. Oh yeah, and yeah you didn't necessarily get 0:33:40.600 --> 0:33:41.720 that pressure from your dad. 0:33:41.960 --> 0:33:43.680 But it's also just a different Oh no. 0:33:43.600 --> 0:33:45.440 We had a no, no, we had a we had 0:33:45.480 --> 0:33:49.240 a pressure for sure, but not like it wasn't directional. 0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:51.760 It was just like a pressure to perform, you know, 0:33:52.760 --> 0:33:56.080 like it wasn't It wasn't like a pressure to to 0:33:56.400 --> 0:33:59.640 following dad steps and become an orthodonist. You know. It 0:33:59.800 --> 0:34:01.720 was a yeah, right, It was like you couldn't you 0:34:01.720 --> 0:34:03.719 couldn't be a screw off for sure, and you had 0:34:03.720 --> 0:34:05.320 to you had to work hard, you're going to be 0:34:05.320 --> 0:34:09.719 in trouble. But there was no, it wasn't hyper directional, 0:34:09.840 --> 0:34:10.600 I should say. 0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:13.560 And now it is, you're saying, is it directional pressure 0:34:13.640 --> 0:34:14.920 you put on your kids? 0:34:16.800 --> 0:34:20.359 No? No, I just had this conversation this morning. Maybe 0:34:20.440 --> 0:34:22.040 me and my wife were talking to a friend of 0:34:22.040 --> 0:34:26.600 ours this morning, and I was my wife's much more 0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:30.520 inclined to get after him about grades. You know, she's 0:34:30.520 --> 0:34:34.200 pretty demanding on grades. And I was trying to explain 0:34:34.239 --> 0:34:37.920 to a friend of mine that I didn't have that 0:34:37.960 --> 0:34:40.120 relationship with school. I did a lot of schooling, but 0:34:40.120 --> 0:34:41.720 I didn't have that relationship with school. 0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:45.719 And and I don't look at it like I don't 0:34:45.760 --> 0:34:46.320 look at. 0:34:46.160 --> 0:34:49.799 It as the sort of sole opportunity that I don't 0:34:49.800 --> 0:34:52.520 look at like academic performance as being the kind of 0:34:52.600 --> 0:34:55.239 like where you make or that that that that's your 0:34:55.360 --> 0:34:58.200 chance to make or break yourself. Or I don't look 0:34:58.239 --> 0:35:02.720 at like the quality the quality of a kid's formal 0:35:02.920 --> 0:35:07.800 education really like casts their die and sets their destiny. 0:35:07.880 --> 0:35:09.960 You know, I look at it like it's a part. 0:35:10.120 --> 0:35:13.640 It's a it's a part, it's important, it's a part 0:35:14.000 --> 0:35:19.440 of a much broader collection of things that go on 0:35:19.520 --> 0:35:22.440 in one's life that will sort of determine where they 0:35:22.520 --> 0:35:23.360 had right. 0:35:25.880 --> 0:35:30.200 Within that. You know, if our kids screw off in school. 0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:32.279 And they get bad grades, they're gonna lose privileges. 0:35:33.440 --> 0:35:38.279 Yeah, yeah, So what does cast the die? Oh man? 0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:40.719 Or is that too broad to ask? 0:35:41.400 --> 0:35:44.920 No? No, It's very funny that we're on this because 0:35:45.160 --> 0:35:47.920 because we were like having this, we were having this 0:35:48.080 --> 0:35:50.120 very question earlier, and a friend of mine was pointing 0:35:50.160 --> 0:35:53.680 out my friend of mine was taking the other perspective here, 0:35:54.880 --> 0:35:59.200 and she was saying, you guys, meaning our family, She's like, 0:36:01.120 --> 0:36:03.240 you guys are really engaged. 0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:06.080 You like know a lot of people, you have. 0:36:07.600 --> 0:36:09.640 You know a lot of connections, you have a lot 0:36:09.640 --> 0:36:13.520 of opportunity, you have a lot of passions. If you 0:36:13.640 --> 0:36:17.200 take some kids and strip away where they have like 0:36:17.320 --> 0:36:20.800 not a great home life, they don't have engage parents. 0:36:21.719 --> 0:36:25.440 It might be that that is their chance, like shining 0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:29.560 in school without people backing them up, and without people 0:36:29.600 --> 0:36:31.840 backing them up at home and supporting them at home, 0:36:32.680 --> 0:36:37.000 and like creating chances for them, right, sacrificing for them. 0:36:37.239 --> 0:36:39.440 She's like some people if. 0:36:39.800 --> 0:36:45.000 She was, she's a she was her family during the 0:36:45.080 --> 0:36:49.040 Iranian Revolution. They fled to Iran, right and can't do 0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:52.040 America with nothing. She's like, dude, for me, for us, 0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:53.759 if we didn't make it in school, you were going 0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:56.160 to make it because that was your chance, Like that 0:36:56.239 --> 0:36:58.800 was your chance to shine, and that was like your spot. 0:36:58.880 --> 0:37:01.400 You're going to do it academic because there wasn't another 0:37:01.400 --> 0:37:03.600 way you were going to do it. And I was like, yeah, 0:37:03.680 --> 0:37:06.600 that's kind of true because but I point out, like 0:37:06.680 --> 0:37:09.000 I'd be thrilled if my kids joined the military. I'd 0:37:09.000 --> 0:37:11.239 be thrilled if my kid went up and became you know, 0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:14.239 got a job guiding, uh, you know, became a sheep 0:37:14.280 --> 0:37:16.799 guy in Alaska, Like I'd be thrilled for him. You know, 0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:21.399 it doesn't I don't have Uh, there's just I think 0:37:21.400 --> 0:37:24.000 there's a lot of paths. You know, when is your die? 0:37:24.239 --> 0:37:25.080 When is your die? 0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:27.200 Cast? 0:37:26.239 --> 0:37:26.359 Uh? 0:37:27.440 --> 0:37:30.040 That's a great question. We have a ten year old, 0:37:30.200 --> 0:37:32.600 a twelve year old, fourteen year old. I don't know 0:37:32.680 --> 0:37:37.040 at what point you feel like you're out of the woods. 0:37:37.800 --> 0:37:41.440 Last night, the cab driver I drove with from the airport, 0:37:41.800 --> 0:37:45.040 we are talking about this subject a little bit, and 0:37:45.560 --> 0:37:49.160 he said he when his kids were, when his youngest 0:37:49.200 --> 0:37:51.840 one was kind of finished in college, he all of 0:37:51.920 --> 0:37:53.920 a sudden said, I felt like I had done it. 0:37:54.560 --> 0:37:59.040 M you know, He's like, I felt like I could 0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:01.880 look and be like, you did it. Yeah, you did it, 0:38:01.920 --> 0:38:03.719 You did a good job, you got it. 0:38:04.600 --> 0:38:07.080 You know, my kids are the same as my oldest 0:38:07.120 --> 0:38:11.840 is thirteen though, yeah right there, and yeah. 0:38:11.640 --> 0:38:13.840 We don't we don't wait at fourteen. 0:38:13.920 --> 0:38:15.319 I can tell you one thing we're not doing is 0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:18.000 we're not kicking back saying we did it, because there's 0:38:18.000 --> 0:38:20.879 still a lot of there's still a lot of rose. 0:38:20.640 --> 0:38:24.080 To ho No, man, do you guys, is there a 0:38:24.280 --> 0:38:25.640 you guys have a faith in your family? 0:38:27.160 --> 0:38:27.359 No? 0:38:27.840 --> 0:38:28.680 You know, we were. 0:38:28.480 --> 0:38:32.680 Brought up well, yeah, it's it's it's present because we 0:38:32.680 --> 0:38:35.520 were both brought up very much in the in the 0:38:35.640 --> 0:38:41.040 Christian tradition, and our kids have observant. Our kids have 0:38:41.160 --> 0:38:46.920 observant family members observing observant grandparents on each side. 0:38:47.680 --> 0:38:51.600 But in our household, no, it's like they we've never been. 0:38:52.640 --> 0:38:55.200 We're like we're observing in the. 0:38:55.200 --> 0:39:00.040 Tradition like so many people are where we acknowledge holidays, 0:39:00.080 --> 0:39:02.520 but we're just not we're not church going. 0:39:03.360 --> 0:39:05.239 We're not church going people, even to the point where 0:39:05.239 --> 0:39:07.239 our kids have expressed and. 0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:10.560 We'll go with their grandparents, you know, like they've taken 0:39:10.560 --> 0:39:14.520 into they're interested, but it's just something that for us, 0:39:14.640 --> 0:39:18.640 it's something that we were grounded in, based in and 0:39:18.640 --> 0:39:22.160 then just got like just drifted in some way. 0:39:22.360 --> 0:39:25.000 You know, does that Does that feeling change when you're 0:39:25.040 --> 0:39:29.000 on top of a mountain alone or or yeah? 0:39:29.040 --> 0:39:31.840 Because you know, I feel like a like a spiritual 0:39:31.880 --> 0:39:36.480 connection to nature, and I feel a sort of like 0:39:36.560 --> 0:39:37.319 I don't know, like a. 0:39:39.920 --> 0:39:41.239 Spiritual connection to. 0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:45.040 My friends and my fellow man, Like like I never 0:39:45.120 --> 0:39:49.279 have this feeling of being that it's pointless or being 0:39:49.280 --> 0:39:52.440 that we're just like drifting in outer space, no broader 0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:53.600 meaning things, you know what I mean? 0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:57.759 I feel like very grounded in a order. 0:39:58.239 --> 0:40:02.000 Where there's a where there's a higher order, and there's 0:40:02.040 --> 0:40:04.640 a there's a thing that we need to pay homage 0:40:04.680 --> 0:40:07.759 to and there's something that we're indebted to. Right, So 0:40:07.840 --> 0:40:12.279 those feels there's something that you owe back to, right. 0:40:12.360 --> 0:40:15.520 We try to raise our kids with that awareness. But 0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:20.279 what I wouldn't say that we're observing you know. 0:40:20.400 --> 0:40:24.040 Okay, that's interesting, So what uh, what would you owe? 0:40:24.920 --> 0:40:31.879 For the second conversation, I'd have to. 0:40:31.800 --> 0:40:33.680 Think about I'd have to think about why I feel 0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:36.799 that way. I don't know, like I'd have to think 0:40:36.800 --> 0:40:38.319 about why I feel that way. Uh. 0:40:39.320 --> 0:40:41.040 And that's a thought you you would have on the 0:40:41.040 --> 0:40:42.920 top of a mountain in Alaska. You would have that 0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:46.000 feeling like I feel, I feel like I owe something 0:40:46.800 --> 0:40:47.440 like yeah. 0:40:47.320 --> 0:40:49.200 Like a sense of like a like a sense of it, 0:40:49.400 --> 0:40:53.960 like a sense of indebtedness. That's a great question. I 0:40:54.160 --> 0:40:56.759 can't really answer why I have that. You know, It's 0:40:56.800 --> 0:40:59.279 like I never dug back. I never dug back more 0:40:59.360 --> 0:41:01.799 layers on it to really think about why I had 0:41:01.800 --> 0:41:09.400 that feeling of of you know, being in a like 0:41:09.400 --> 0:41:12.600 like existing in a sort of sense, existing in a 0:41:12.600 --> 0:41:15.640 world where there's where there's like a continuity and a 0:41:16.280 --> 0:41:18.880 broader meaning to it all. I just I've never fallen 0:41:18.920 --> 0:41:23.680 into I've never had a sort of despairing, feeling of 0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:28.600 of it all being empty or at all being pointless. 0:41:28.600 --> 0:41:30.719 I've never felt that way, you know, even in the 0:41:30.760 --> 0:41:34.239 absence of organized religion, I've never felt that. 0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:38.000 Perhaps it was from being raised in that tradition, you know. 0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:40.799 Right, which is that emptiness you're kind of elluding that 0:41:40.800 --> 0:41:44.160 that emptiness is typically what drives people into searching for 0:41:44.200 --> 0:41:45.919 a deeper understanding. 0:41:47.000 --> 0:41:49.960 Probably, Yeah, you'll hear people say like, could this really 0:41:50.000 --> 0:41:53.040 be it? And I never I never have that feeling of. 0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:55.080 It could really be it. I think that that's one 0:41:55.120 --> 0:41:57.319 of the things of one of the big strengths of 0:42:01.400 --> 0:42:06.960 One of the reasons I like like parenting and and 0:42:07.000 --> 0:42:09.600 I'm serious about parenting and find a lot of value 0:42:09.640 --> 0:42:11.000 in parenting is I think it. 0:42:11.080 --> 0:42:11.879 Creates a. 0:42:13.480 --> 0:42:15.840 There's this term I used in a different context before, 0:42:15.920 --> 0:42:18.400 but I use this term like an arena, an arena 0:42:18.440 --> 0:42:21.400 of consequence, meaning I've said that one of the reasons 0:42:21.480 --> 0:42:23.920 I like exposing my kids to the outdoors is you're 0:42:23.960 --> 0:42:27.640 in an arena of consequence, Like you can get into situations. 0:42:27.680 --> 0:42:31.760 You know, you're out in big water in a small boat, right, 0:42:31.920 --> 0:42:35.520 You're in an arena of consequence. Man Like screwing up 0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:38.759 has there's a real thing that happens when you screw up, 0:42:38.800 --> 0:42:41.000 and if you're not paying attention, there's a real thing 0:42:41.000 --> 0:42:45.080 that happens. And I feel that I've found so much 0:42:45.120 --> 0:42:50.320 more clarity in life as a parent because it makes 0:42:50.360 --> 0:42:54.279 the whole thing an arena of consequence. I remember my 0:42:54.320 --> 0:42:57.239 buddy earlier, I was talking about the guy that used 0:42:57.280 --> 0:42:59.359 to work for Boordain on the Boardain stuff, and he's 0:42:59.360 --> 0:43:03.399 the showrunner on the History Channel show. We were talking 0:43:03.400 --> 0:43:06.440 about this and he described to me like once he 0:43:06.520 --> 0:43:08.680 had kids, when he woke up in the morning, he 0:43:08.719 --> 0:43:11.080 felt like he was in one of those old movies 0:43:11.120 --> 0:43:13.239 where you put your hat on and go out the 0:43:13.280 --> 0:43:16.440 door in the morning, you know, racing to work with 0:43:16.520 --> 0:43:19.080 the newspaper under your arm, you know, like raising to work. 0:43:19.480 --> 0:43:21.840 He just felt like it was he loved it. All 0:43:21.880 --> 0:43:24.000 of a sudden, there was like a mission, you know, 0:43:24.400 --> 0:43:26.800 yea your family, it gives you a mission. 0:43:27.160 --> 0:43:28.160 And I think that's one of the. 0:43:28.040 --> 0:43:31.360 Things that the reason I have like found such a 0:43:31.400 --> 0:43:35.880 greater happiness as a parent that I did prior to 0:43:35.920 --> 0:43:39.279 being a parent is the huge sense of purpose. So 0:43:39.280 --> 0:43:42.040 when I talk about the continuity thing is all of 0:43:42.080 --> 0:43:43.520 a sudden, you're like, you're. 0:43:43.480 --> 0:43:44.480 Kind of like, oh, I get it. 0:43:45.000 --> 0:43:49.440 If I can take the things that I've learned and 0:43:49.480 --> 0:43:54.160 things where I find value and being a good person 0:43:54.200 --> 0:43:57.480 to the people around you whatever, trying hard, and I 0:43:57.560 --> 0:44:01.040 put that into my kids and that grows in them, 0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:04.080 and then and then they move on and do that 0:44:04.160 --> 0:44:06.279 as well. You know, it kind of makes like, uh, 0:44:06.640 --> 0:44:09.320 it makes things have a lot of sense. And it 0:44:09.400 --> 0:44:15.080 wound up being really really psychologically mentally for mental health 0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:17.279 and stuff for I would say for both speaking for 0:44:17.400 --> 0:44:19.640 my wife who's not in the room right now, but 0:44:19.680 --> 0:44:21.040 if she was here, I would say the same thing. 0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:26.200 It helped us a lot, like like like mentally it did. 0:44:26.400 --> 0:44:29.319 Having kids and being parents did a lot for us, 0:44:29.480 --> 0:44:31.680 a lot for us in a way that's taken me 0:44:31.800 --> 0:44:32.840 years to realize. 0:44:33.239 --> 0:44:36.560 Did you struggle at any point before that with mental health? 0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:44.399 Yeah? I did. I did. Yeah, I had like, yeah, 0:44:44.440 --> 0:44:47.640 I drank too much, Like we don't. I don't drink 0:44:47.640 --> 0:44:48.120 it all now. 0:44:48.400 --> 0:44:50.040 I'm not down on it, but we just don't have 0:44:50.120 --> 0:44:50.440 time to. 0:44:51.920 --> 0:44:59.960 I don't know, drank too much. Uh yeah, I just 0:45:00.160 --> 0:45:01.600 not like not great. 0:45:01.640 --> 0:45:04.040 You know, move moved a lot of things over you know, 0:45:04.080 --> 0:45:04.719 I talked. 0:45:04.480 --> 0:45:07.040 A lot about my parents. I talked a lot about 0:45:07.080 --> 0:45:10.680 my dad that was not always a very like a 0:45:10.719 --> 0:45:15.120 completely harmonious relationship. He had had terrible experiences in the war, 0:45:15.239 --> 0:45:20.520 and and yeah, it was just you know, uh, my net, 0:45:20.960 --> 0:45:27.400 my net overall happiness. Just I kind of found it 0:45:27.440 --> 0:45:30.600 with family, right, I found it with family. And and 0:45:30.640 --> 0:45:33.360 I wouldn't even even have It wouldn't have occurred to 0:45:33.400 --> 0:45:36.759 me to even have said that until I was well 0:45:36.800 --> 0:45:38.560 into the job of being a parent. You know. 0:45:38.920 --> 0:45:44.840 Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. I have to think more about that, 0:45:44.840 --> 0:45:48.560 that becoming a parent fulfills something in you that. 0:45:50.000 --> 0:45:51.840 Yeah, that's that's fascinating stuff. 0:45:52.400 --> 0:45:54.520 I feel like, Yeah, it gave you, it gave it 0:45:54.760 --> 0:45:57.799 gave everything a shape. I feel like I think it 0:45:57.840 --> 0:45:59.480 gave everything in life a shape. 0:46:00.480 --> 0:46:00.880 Yeah. 0:46:01.239 --> 0:46:04.400 As I sit here, I do realize and it's not 0:46:04.480 --> 0:46:07.840 lost on me that I'm in a position that millions 0:46:08.120 --> 0:46:11.960 of American men probably worldwide, would want to be. And 0:46:12.000 --> 0:46:14.080 that is get I get to talk to Steve one 0:46:14.080 --> 0:46:15.520 on one and ask him anything I want. 0:46:16.000 --> 0:46:18.439 So this is a huge privilege and I appreciate the time. 0:46:18.560 --> 0:46:20.239 I do want to ask a few questions though, to 0:46:20.520 --> 0:46:22.200 you know, for the rest of the men out there. 0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:25.480 One gun, one rifle, and that's all. That's the only 0:46:25.480 --> 0:46:27.640 when you get the rest of your life for any hunt, 0:46:27.920 --> 0:46:28.479 what are you taking? 0:46:30.719 --> 0:46:34.080 This is my fourtunen year old's favorite game. 0:46:36.719 --> 0:46:40.320 That says a lot about my brain. I think, right, yeah, no. 0:46:40.120 --> 0:46:44.840 No, I'm right there with If we had to do okay, 0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:47.840 if it was the one gun, the one gun, me 0:46:47.920 --> 0:46:48.759 and my boy. 0:46:48.640 --> 0:46:50.640 Both decided there would be a twelve gage and we 0:46:50.640 --> 0:46:52.839 would just become slog hunters for big game. 0:46:53.520 --> 0:46:54.120 Interesting. 0:46:54.320 --> 0:46:56.279 I like it because we hunt everything man Like we 0:46:56.400 --> 0:46:58.800 hunt rabbits, squirrels. 0:46:58.920 --> 0:47:01.160 Yeah, dear, we're like man. 0:47:01.320 --> 0:47:03.919 If we could have any shell we wanted, we would 0:47:04.000 --> 0:47:05.200 go at the twelve gage. 0:47:05.840 --> 0:47:08.759 For for rifles, I shoot like. 0:47:10.400 --> 0:47:14.400 Uh, for rifles, my main like all around guns. I 0:47:14.400 --> 0:47:17.279 shoot a three hundred win mag. Okay, but see, but 0:47:17.560 --> 0:47:19.080 you know, I hope you know I like to hunt 0:47:19.120 --> 0:47:22.560 moose and stuff, man, you know, and uh, And I 0:47:22.600 --> 0:47:24.920 know there's a lot of advances, and you know, bullets 0:47:24.960 --> 0:47:27.759 are getting so good, and a lot of stuff's changed, 0:47:27.760 --> 0:47:30.280 and you can get away with much lower calibers on stuff. 0:47:30.280 --> 0:47:32.319 But I've never been bothered by recoiling. 0:47:32.440 --> 0:47:34.880 And I enjoy shooting a three hundred win mag so 0:47:34.920 --> 0:47:39.880 if I was picking a rifle. You know my younger bodies. 0:47:39.920 --> 0:47:42.600 Everything now is like smaller, faster, you know. 0:47:44.440 --> 0:47:45.560 But uh yeah, I. 0:47:45.480 --> 0:47:48.080 Shoot three hundred win Man the one gun deal for sure, 0:47:48.160 --> 0:47:50.000 Man twelve gage showy. 0:47:50.000 --> 0:47:51.200 You can even get a bird with that. You can 0:47:51.200 --> 0:47:52.640 get a dove with that. I like it. That's a 0:47:52.680 --> 0:47:53.160 good answer. 0:47:53.200 --> 0:47:54.920 Oh no, we hunt turkeys, we hunt dogs. 0:47:55.000 --> 0:47:56.400 Yeah, you just do everything man. 0:47:56.640 --> 0:47:59.120 Top five game meets in order. 0:47:59.200 --> 0:48:01.040 I know that woul probably chan and so today in 0:48:01.080 --> 0:48:03.479 your current mood right now from your hotel room. 0:48:05.360 --> 0:48:06.839 A lot of We eat a lot of mule deer. 0:48:07.719 --> 0:48:09.759 My family, We've always eaten a lot of meal deer. 0:48:09.800 --> 0:48:12.440 People tend to like what they know. You know, when 0:48:12.480 --> 0:48:16.040 people talk about something tasting strong, it's because it's unusual 0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:19.640 to them. We eat a ton of mule deer. My 0:48:19.719 --> 0:48:22.359 kids first deer, you know, all mualder. That's what we hunt. 0:48:23.480 --> 0:48:30.520 So that's the favorite. Uh uh. We like to eat 0:48:30.560 --> 0:48:38.120 a lot of halbit and salmon, like cottontail rabbits. Interesting, Yeah, 0:48:38.960 --> 0:48:40.480 cottontail rabbits, we can get. 0:48:40.320 --> 0:48:42.400 Them cotton top three interesting. 0:48:42.640 --> 0:48:45.640 But no, you know now that you put it that way, Oh, 0:48:45.719 --> 0:48:54.160 black cot, I'd put black cottable fish. I like a 0:48:54.160 --> 0:48:54.880 lot of stuff. 0:48:55.239 --> 0:48:57.799 That's a that's why that could change tomorrow. That's a 0:48:57.800 --> 0:48:58.360 tough question. 0:48:58.480 --> 0:49:00.319 Well, that's the thing is. I'm like I always joke 0:49:00.440 --> 0:49:02.320 like I got way too many. I'm like, I always 0:49:02.320 --> 0:49:04.320 talk about that's my favorite food, and I'm like, well 0:49:04.440 --> 0:49:05.719 I do like that other thing too. 0:49:05.760 --> 0:49:06.799 Yeah, yeah, I get it. 0:49:07.800 --> 0:49:12.040 Give me again, dear me like like it No, But seriously, Uh, 0:49:12.520 --> 0:49:14.040 if I had to I'll tell you this way. If 0:49:14.040 --> 0:49:15.319 I had to just eat one if I had to 0:49:15.320 --> 0:49:18.520 eat one thing, okay, one, just one thing, and I 0:49:18.520 --> 0:49:20.160 had to access to one thing, it would be like 0:49:20.160 --> 0:49:24.160 I would want like deer bodies, deer, okay, white tailed deer, meal, 0:49:24.400 --> 0:49:24.839 the whole thing. 0:49:24.920 --> 0:49:26.320 I want the whole tongue deer. 0:49:26.400 --> 0:49:27.720 Everything. I want just deer. 0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:31.239 Okay, even even an eyeball. You ate an eyeball one time, 0:49:31.239 --> 0:49:32.040 didn't you. 0:49:32.160 --> 0:49:33.399 Yep, I want the whole deer. 0:49:33.440 --> 0:49:35.000 If I didn't pick one thing, I'd be like, it 0:49:35.040 --> 0:49:36.000 has to be the whole deer. 0:49:36.120 --> 0:49:38.440 Yeah. What's a what's a hunt? 0:49:38.600 --> 0:49:41.719 One hunt that just You've had so many you look 0:49:41.760 --> 0:49:43.600 back in your life, is there one that just pops 0:49:43.600 --> 0:49:44.759 out and knocked your socks off. 0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:48.360 Yeah, you kind of hit it on the head talking 0:49:48.400 --> 0:49:52.800 about talking about hunting doll sheep. I've been real fortunate. 0:49:52.960 --> 0:49:55.520 Like in Alaska, you can't hunt sheep. 0:49:55.280 --> 0:49:57.879 Without a guide unless you have a relative that lives there. 0:49:58.520 --> 0:50:02.480 It could be your cousin. They called degree kindred. My 0:50:02.560 --> 0:50:05.480 brother has been in Alaska for twenty five years or something, 0:50:06.920 --> 0:50:09.719 so periodically I'll be able to go sheep, hunt them. 0:50:09.760 --> 0:50:11.480 We just go. I can just go with him, you know. 0:50:12.320 --> 0:50:17.400 And and man, that's like it's the just the epitome 0:50:17.440 --> 0:50:21.600 of mountain hunting, the epitome of mountain hunting. Another favor 0:50:21.640 --> 0:50:24.280 for me would be like hunt milder during the rut. 0:50:24.440 --> 0:50:27.160 You know, hunt milder in late November is just a blast, 0:50:27.560 --> 0:50:29.000 just a blast. Love it. 0:50:29.160 --> 0:50:31.239 Yeah, it's great. One more thing. 0:50:31.239 --> 0:50:32.719 And I'm not going to push you on this because 0:50:32.719 --> 0:50:35.200 it's contentious, but uh cwd. 0:50:36.880 --> 0:50:39.520 Oh the don't think is contentious. Well, it's contentious, but 0:50:39.560 --> 0:50:40.720 it doesn't bother me talking. 0:50:40.520 --> 0:50:45.160 About Okay, Well, I mean here in Texas, a lot 0:50:45.160 --> 0:50:47.919 of these ranch owners are especially the ones raising deer, 0:50:47.960 --> 0:50:51.040 are actually pretty scared. There's there's guys that have based 0:50:51.080 --> 0:50:54.359 their whole life, their whole income, everything is based around deer, 0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:59.319 and now the government has authority to come and just 0:50:59.360 --> 0:51:02.320 wipe out the whole heard with a twenty four hour notice. 0:51:02.920 --> 0:51:03.200 Yep. 0:51:03.560 --> 0:51:06.799 Is there is there anything nefarious that you think could 0:51:06.840 --> 0:51:09.880 be happening here? Is this a ploy in any way, 0:51:09.960 --> 0:51:13.520 especially after we saw what happened with COVID, If there's 0:51:13.600 --> 0:51:16.480 more to this as we see these CWD cases popping 0:51:16.560 --> 0:51:20.640 up randomly, is it naturally occurring? Have you seen any 0:51:20.640 --> 0:51:24.080 way to eradicate it that's effective. These are all tons 0:51:24.120 --> 0:51:24.560 of questions. 0:51:24.560 --> 0:51:28.880 I have no no, Well, you're opening up a bunch, 0:51:28.920 --> 0:51:30.839 but I'll give you, like if you don't mind, I'll 0:51:30.840 --> 0:51:40.200 give you sort of a general perspectively. Yeah, it was 0:51:40.239 --> 0:51:46.480 first identified in the seventies. Some people feel as though 0:51:48.440 --> 0:51:54.239 it was always there and we weren't finding it. We 0:51:54.320 --> 0:51:56.720 have a lot of testing in place now all around 0:51:56.719 --> 0:51:59.239 the country, and we have areas now where you can 0:51:59.320 --> 0:52:01.400 test test to and you don't find it, and then 0:52:01.440 --> 0:52:03.600 you can test test tests and you begin to find it. 0:52:05.239 --> 0:52:10.359 I do believe, I do believe that it is a 0:52:10.480 --> 0:52:13.880 somewhat novel, meaning new. I do believe it is a 0:52:13.960 --> 0:52:21.080 somewhat new disease, and I think that it's expanding its range. 0:52:21.080 --> 0:52:23.000 I think it's spreading from deer to deer to deer 0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:27.759 in areas. I do not believe there's any stopping it. 0:52:30.480 --> 0:52:35.400 I the primary thing that I worry about with CWD 0:52:35.800 --> 0:52:41.719 is that it would I am very concerned about the 0:52:41.800 --> 0:52:45.320 ramifications of it if it would jump into humans. 0:52:45.719 --> 0:52:48.080 There's no evidence that there's no evidence. 0:52:47.719 --> 0:52:49.600 That it will. It has not. 0:52:51.600 --> 0:52:53.600 I've been I've had people. 0:52:53.400 --> 0:52:56.160 Challenging me on this. I think that there are hundreds 0:52:56.200 --> 0:53:01.440 of thousands of hunters, hundreds of thousands of Americans who've 0:53:01.440 --> 0:53:08.080 eaten CWD positive meat. No one's gotten sick. There's been 0:53:08.160 --> 0:53:10.360 groups of people that we can track over time that 0:53:10.400 --> 0:53:14.080 we knew eight infected meat, you know whatever, fifteen sixteen 0:53:14.160 --> 0:53:16.759 years ago. They routinely, you know, check up with them. 0:53:17.200 --> 0:53:22.360 There's no evidence that it's happened. However, other preon diseases, 0:53:22.400 --> 0:53:25.560 there have been other preon diseases, mad cow for one. 0:53:25.640 --> 0:53:29.560 There's been other preon diseases in time that have jumped. 0:53:29.320 --> 0:53:33.360 And infected humans. So it can't happen. 0:53:33.560 --> 0:53:36.680 You go to England and it's happened where mad cow 0:53:36.800 --> 0:53:39.520 has infected people in a couple of handful of cases. 0:53:39.560 --> 0:53:42.359 So as a prion disease and it's not you know, 0:53:42.520 --> 0:53:46.280 you have like mad cow in cattle, there's a preon 0:53:46.320 --> 0:53:52.520 disease scrapy and sheep. There's a preon disease CWD that 0:53:52.600 --> 0:53:55.560 hits members of the deer family. So you have these 0:53:55.560 --> 0:53:58.560 different kinds of creatures and they have different preon diseases. 0:53:58.600 --> 0:54:02.320 You have a prion disease that hits humans Yakub kreutz 0:54:02.320 --> 0:54:06.040 felt or you know, I think it's Yakub Kreutz disease 0:54:06.120 --> 0:54:09.400 or chrous felt Yakub disease. That's a preon disease that 0:54:09.480 --> 0:54:13.160 occurs in humans. So yeah, I believe that there's a 0:54:13.200 --> 0:54:18.520 preon disease that occurs in servants, not only looks, servants 0:54:18.520 --> 0:54:26.040 and deer in the deer family. There's a rub here 0:54:26.760 --> 0:54:31.279 that that even when people have tried to slow the 0:54:31.360 --> 0:54:34.839 spread or to eradicate the disease in certain areas by 0:54:34.920 --> 0:54:40.000 killing tons of deer, they haven't successfully done it. There's 0:54:40.120 --> 0:54:43.520 no there's no place where you can go look and 0:54:43.600 --> 0:54:46.920 see that any human efforts have done anything to get 0:54:47.040 --> 0:54:50.680 rid of it. When people land at a spot that 0:54:50.719 --> 0:54:53.839 it's just people that have landed at a spot that 0:54:54.120 --> 0:54:58.240 let's say someone someone out there accepts, like I believe 0:54:58.320 --> 0:55:00.839 the CWD is a disease that that can kill deer 0:55:01.400 --> 0:55:05.600 or that does kill deer. I believe that that's true, and. 0:55:05.600 --> 0:55:06.719 I believe it's just out there. 0:55:06.840 --> 0:55:09.200 I don't believe it's going to infect humans, and I 0:55:09.239 --> 0:55:11.080 don't believe that us trying to do a bunch of 0:55:11.120 --> 0:55:14.719 measures to control it are going to be successful. I 0:55:14.760 --> 0:55:17.200 could see a person landing at that in that position 0:55:17.520 --> 0:55:21.560 quite logically, I could see someone landing there. For me, Like, 0:55:21.719 --> 0:55:24.000 what I support, What I would like to do is 0:55:24.080 --> 0:55:29.520 I would like to continue us hunter's anglers, not angers, 0:55:29.520 --> 0:55:34.759 you know, well outdoorsmen, livestock producers, whoever. I think that 0:55:34.840 --> 0:55:38.880 we should continue to explore research and continue to fund 0:55:39.000 --> 0:55:42.520 research and try to get somehow It's very hard, but 0:55:42.560 --> 0:55:43.239 try to get like. 0:55:43.280 --> 0:55:45.160 Really unbiased. 0:55:46.080 --> 0:55:50.160 Information from someone who's not pushing an agenda, not pushing 0:55:50.160 --> 0:55:54.319 a pre existing agenda, or trying to use CWD to 0:55:54.760 --> 0:55:59.160 get something they were already after anyway. Yeah, right, but 0:55:59.280 --> 0:56:04.359 like like straight shooters, honest straight shooters, continuing. 0:56:03.840 --> 0:56:06.120 To explore, like what is this thing? 0:56:06.800 --> 0:56:08.879 What are the risks? Right? 0:56:09.120 --> 0:56:12.359 Like I welcome all of that information, and. 0:56:12.360 --> 0:56:14.640 It sounds like there's almost a race to who gets 0:56:14.719 --> 0:56:18.080 there first, because that the hunters need to get to 0:56:18.120 --> 0:56:20.920 that need to get to the solution before the nefarious 0:56:20.960 --> 0:56:23.200 side that says, hey, we're going to use this for 0:56:23.280 --> 0:56:25.560 something we already wanted to wanted to accomplish. 0:56:25.760 --> 0:56:29.520 Yeah, it's it's and like and I've I've seen that man, 0:56:29.560 --> 0:56:34.239 and I and I understand people's frustrations where like, like 0:56:34.400 --> 0:56:36.760 I'm coming from a perspective of a guy that's that's 0:56:36.760 --> 0:56:41.480 that's concerned, very concerned about CWD. I'm also concerned about 0:56:42.680 --> 0:56:45.520 some researchers just some research that came out of Wisconsin 0:56:45.680 --> 0:56:52.560 suggesting that CWD in areas of Wisconsin has far surpassed. 0:56:51.880 --> 0:56:55.279 Humans as the leading cause of death for deer. 0:56:55.960 --> 0:56:58.680 So some people feel that at a certain rate, when 0:56:58.719 --> 0:57:01.120 you get up, when you get CW the infection rates 0:57:01.160 --> 0:57:06.359 thirty forty percent, that it's gonna you're gonna lower your 0:57:06.360 --> 0:57:08.360 deer numbers, your deer herd is gonna go down. And 0:57:08.360 --> 0:57:11.360 here's the other thing is like cwd's always fatal. It's right, Like, 0:57:12.239 --> 0:57:14.840 when a deer gets CWD, it's usually dead within two years. 0:57:15.280 --> 0:57:20.320 So if take six years. 0:57:20.400 --> 0:57:24.280 Five years, six years to grow a mature trophy whitetail. 0:57:25.000 --> 0:57:27.960 And you have infection rates at forty percent or fifty percent, 0:57:28.280 --> 0:57:30.360 it's always fatal within a couple of years. 0:57:30.800 --> 0:57:32.120 You do wonder. 0:57:33.600 --> 0:57:36.720 About our ability in areas that have a lot of infection. 0:57:37.080 --> 0:57:40.520 Are we gonna have the ability to like produce big bucks. Now, 0:57:40.560 --> 0:57:42.320 A lot of people outside of hunters are going to 0:57:42.360 --> 0:57:44.200 look and be like, well, who cares about producing the bucks? 0:57:44.240 --> 0:57:47.560 But you care? I care? I care about that. I 0:57:47.560 --> 0:57:49.760 don't care. I don't care. I care about that a lot. 0:57:50.640 --> 0:57:53.640 I care about deer meat more. And if it wound 0:57:53.720 --> 0:57:56.600 up being that like I had be that, if it 0:57:56.640 --> 0:57:59.120 wound up being that some that it did jump and 0:57:59.160 --> 0:58:06.560 we started being a higher rate of preon diseases in 0:58:06.680 --> 0:58:09.760 humans that were like consuming a bunch of deer meat. Right, 0:58:09.760 --> 0:58:11.520 we haven't seen this yet, there's no evidence of it 0:58:11.600 --> 0:58:13.600 at all. Hopefully that never will be. But if we 0:58:13.640 --> 0:58:17.680 did see that down the road, I would pee. I 0:58:17.720 --> 0:58:20.360 would The first thing I would think is like, man, 0:58:20.480 --> 0:58:23.920 I wish that we had paid more attention this early 0:58:24.040 --> 0:58:24.520 early on. 0:58:24.880 --> 0:58:26.920 But but again, on the other hand of this, what 0:58:27.000 --> 0:58:29.200 burns a lot of guys is what burns. 0:58:29.200 --> 0:58:32.240 A lot of guys is without all this information, trying 0:58:32.240 --> 0:58:37.280 to set regulations and trying to take preventive measures that 0:58:37.320 --> 0:58:40.840 aren't really showing to be effective, but that work against 0:58:40.880 --> 0:58:43.919 the interests of hunters. Meaning there's some county that gets 0:58:43.920 --> 0:58:45.560 CWD and they come up with the idea, well, let's 0:58:45.600 --> 0:58:48.520 go kill every deer in that county everything, and then 0:58:48.560 --> 0:58:49.320 why is it being. 0:58:49.320 --> 0:58:52.720 It doesn't do anything. The deer come back and you 0:58:52.760 --> 0:58:53.360 still have CW. 0:58:53.480 --> 0:58:54.800 So it's like, why do we just kill all the 0:58:54.840 --> 0:58:55.960 deer in the whole damn county. 0:58:56.960 --> 0:58:59.040 Yeah, I was in I was in Montana just a 0:58:59.080 --> 0:59:02.560 few months ago. A game warding friend of mine comes in, Sorry, 0:59:02.560 --> 0:59:05.080 I'm late for dinner. Oh, we've just been killing deer 0:59:05.080 --> 0:59:08.880 all day, last two days, just killing deer because of 0:59:08.920 --> 0:59:10.280 one CWD case. 0:59:10.960 --> 0:59:18.040 Yeah, there's an idea. There's an idea that picture that 0:59:18.120 --> 0:59:23.080 you had picture. There's a cold going around town, right, 0:59:23.360 --> 0:59:25.080 and you might be like, well, how's the cold spread? 0:59:25.120 --> 0:59:26.640 Well, it spreads from person to person. 0:59:27.080 --> 0:59:30.120 Okay, let's get rid of half the people and see 0:59:30.120 --> 0:59:32.000 if we have half as many people with the cold. 0:59:32.360 --> 0:59:34.480 Yeah, yeah, that makes no sense. 0:59:35.480 --> 0:59:38.240 I see a new show coming one day Steve Vanilla 0:59:38.520 --> 0:59:39.760 and CWD. 0:59:40.920 --> 0:59:42.920 But man, I don't want listen. I don't want you 0:59:42.960 --> 0:59:44.400 to think. Here, here's the one thing I don't want 0:59:44.440 --> 0:59:46.840 you to think. I don't want you to think that 0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:49.760 I am not claiming to know all the answers. Yeah 0:59:49.960 --> 0:59:52.960 I'm not, but I'm telling you flat out. 0:59:53.520 --> 0:59:55.360 I'm telling you flat out I think it's something we 0:59:55.360 --> 0:59:56.320 should pay attention to. 0:59:56.680 --> 1:00:00.360 Hopefully in ten years it'll be like, well, look at 1:00:00.400 --> 1:00:03.919 CWD the way we uh now look at COVID, where 1:00:03.920 --> 1:00:05.920 we're like, hey, you know something that happened. 1:00:06.800 --> 1:00:08.440 We got some things right, we got a lot of 1:00:08.480 --> 1:00:09.080 things wrong. 1:00:10.320 --> 1:00:11.600 You know, there's a lot of things we did we 1:00:11.640 --> 1:00:14.920 didn't need to do, and now we can kind of coexist. Right, 1:00:15.000 --> 1:00:18.920 it's around, it's around. Sure, it's brown, like EHD is around. 1:00:19.600 --> 1:00:21.880 All these other deer diseases are around. I hope we landed. 1:00:21.960 --> 1:00:25.040 I'm not rooting for I'm not rooting for wildlife disease, 1:00:25.600 --> 1:00:29.880 but I don't think that we should. I don't think 1:00:29.880 --> 1:00:32.080 that we should view it differently than we would view 1:00:32.120 --> 1:00:35.640 any other wildlife disease. Like we we like research. We 1:00:35.680 --> 1:00:38.680 want to research wildlife diseases and understand what their capabilities 1:00:38.680 --> 1:00:42.560 are yeah right, No, I want information, man, Yeah, I 1:00:42.600 --> 1:00:43.280 want information. 1:00:43.520 --> 1:00:44.439 You know that's good. 1:00:45.240 --> 1:00:47.680 Hey, bro, thank you so much for taking the time 1:00:47.760 --> 1:00:52.680 being on here hunting history from the heart of a 1:00:52.840 --> 1:00:56.440 of a storyteller. I appreciate you so much, man. And 1:00:56.960 --> 1:00:58.880 it's a it's a great new show that you guys have. 1:00:59.760 --> 1:01:01.960 Well, I appreciate you saying all that nice stuff, man, 1:01:02.000 --> 1:01:05.280 And and I appreciate you bringing up and having bringing 1:01:05.360 --> 1:01:09.800 up talking about talking about chronic waste and disease because 1:01:10.440 --> 1:01:16.440 you know, it's a it's a real frustrating mystery, and 1:01:16.480 --> 1:01:19.840 it's kind of dividing some hunters, and and and I yeah, 1:01:19.960 --> 1:01:23.040 and I just hope the guys that have a vested 1:01:23.080 --> 1:01:26.320 interest in deer continue to read up on it and 1:01:26.360 --> 1:01:29.440 follow what's going on and have opinions, but you know, 1:01:29.680 --> 1:01:33.680 have informed opinions, right, like get try to try to 1:01:33.760 --> 1:01:36.280 draw some information from a variety of sources and weigh 1:01:36.280 --> 1:01:37.560 it out in your head and see what you think. 1:01:37.640 --> 1:01:39.040 It's good to talk about it. 1:01:39.120 --> 1:01:41.880 I agree, yeah, one percent. 1:01:42.640 --> 1:01:45.400 Well, thank you, brother, sure appreciate your time. Yeah, man, 1:01:45.480 --> 1:01:46.560 take care, Yeah you too. 1:01:47.080 --> 1:01:50.120 Thanks for joining me on the Grangersmith podcast. I appreciate 1:01:50.360 --> 1:01:52.320 all of you guys, you could help me out by 1:01:52.440 --> 1:01:56.240 rating this podcast on iTunes. If you're on YouTube, subscribe 1:01:56.280 --> 1:01:59.640 to this channel, Hit that little like button and notification 1:01:59.720 --> 1:02:03.640 spe so that you never miss anytime I upload a video.