WEBVTT - How BTS Became an International Pop Phenomenon 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.720 Welcome to five hundred Greatest Songs, a podcast based on 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:08.240 Rolling Stones hugely popular, influential and sometimes controversialist. I'm Britney 0:00:08.240 --> 0:00:09.080 Spanos and. 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:11.400 I'm Rob Sheffield and we're here to shed light on 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.480 the greatest songs ever made and discover what makes them 0:00:14.520 --> 0:00:19.600 so great. And this week's song Dynamite by BTS. 0:00:20.040 --> 0:00:23.120 This is one of two songs by BTS that are 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:25.600 on the Greatest Songs of All Time lists. They made 0:00:25.600 --> 0:00:27.760 their debut, of course in twenty twenty one, ranking at 0:00:27.840 --> 0:00:30.600 number three forty seven with Dynamite, and then spring Day 0:00:30.760 --> 0:00:31.920 landed at number. 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:32.640 Two hundred and eighty. 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:37.160 And I mean BTS was already massive phenomenons at that point, 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:41.920 but Dynamite kind of tipped over the edge of BTS 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:44.640 mania that would happen globally. I mean, this was their 0:00:44.720 --> 0:00:46.920 first number one song on the Billboard Hot one hundred. 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.120 This was their first fully English language song, and this 0:00:50.280 --> 0:00:52.919 was the first time in all South Korean group hit 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.160 number one on the Hot one hundred. 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:57.760 They also broke barriers with the Grammys as well. 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:00.600 They got their first Grammy nomination and we're also the 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.600 first South Korean artists to be nominated for a Grammy Award. 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.160 I mean, it was just kind of a boundary breaking, 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:08.280 massive moment for this band. 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:13.040 Yeah, Like spring Day and Dynamite kind of a beautiful 0:01:13.040 --> 0:01:15.640 pair on the list just because they're sort of opposite 0:01:15.680 --> 0:01:19.200 extremes of the BTS story. Spring Day is them like 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.520 as the South Korean band. It's a song that was 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:26.160 for the hardcore fans, a very emotional, very inspiring song, 0:01:26.319 --> 0:01:30.120 a very message oriented song. And Dynamite is after they've 0:01:30.120 --> 0:01:36.120 become global phenomenon by being exactly themselves, not compromising anything 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:39.360 like that. They got so huge in the US, which 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.800 is so historically resistant to any music not in English, 0:01:42.880 --> 0:01:46.640 and they just did not cross over to North America. 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:49.840 They made North America cross over to them and Dynamite. 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:53.720 For them to finally do an English language song after 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.240 they were so massive here on their own terms was 0:01:56.280 --> 0:01:59.440 just kind of beautiful. They didn't do it because they 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:01.560 had to or because it would get them anything that 0:02:01.560 --> 0:02:04.480 they didn't already have, Like they just they felt like 0:02:04.560 --> 0:02:04.920 doing this. 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:07.320 Yeah, and the song in particular too, the timing of 0:02:07.360 --> 0:02:10.000 it was so much. They released this in August twenty twenty, 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:12.760 and this is this song is like, I mean, it's 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:15.560 just like Sunshine bottled up into a song. It's like 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:18.240 a really great kind of like seventies funk, like very 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.600 like Bruno Mars Uptown funky esque type of song. 0:02:21.800 --> 0:02:23.600 It's like really bright and happy. 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:26.080 And of course this was August twenty twenty, not a 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:29.280 particularly bright or happy time for anyone around the globe. 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:30.840 And I mean it's very purposeful. 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.240 They wanted to release a song that was, you know, 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:35.359 meant to put a smile on people's faces, bring a 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:38.200 little bit of joy and lightness, you know. Bts as 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.720 songwriters that are coming from a place of talking about 0:02:41.919 --> 0:02:44.800 being a young person in South Korea who's dealing with 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:48.400 kind of the pressures of a perfection, or about mental health, 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:50.920 or about grief. Spring Day a perfect example of that. 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:53.560 And this was a song that they very intentionally wanted 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.520 to put out into the world that was kind of 0:02:55.720 --> 0:02:58.520 countering the amount of grief that people were facing. And 0:02:58.919 --> 0:03:01.800 it's just kind of a beautiful sentiment and obviously the 0:03:01.840 --> 0:03:03.840 song did just that for a lot of people. 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.080 Yeah, it really struck a nerve. It would have been 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:07.639 so different if they did the song a couple of 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:10.320 years earlier, you know, when they were still on the 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:13.320 rise in this part of the world where it would 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:16.480 have seemed or in some way it might have been 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.480 a sort of compromise to try to broaden their audience. 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:22.079 But they did dynamite when they were already as big 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:25.200 as any group could possibly be. Yeah, it was almost 0:03:26.000 --> 0:03:28.360 a victory lap for them. And like you said that, 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:31.440 it was at a very bleak global time and very 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:35.000 similar message, very similar emotional impact as Spring Day, but 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:36.960 on a just broader global scale. 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.160 Yeah, And I mean, like many boy bands before them, 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:40.960 you know, you don't really need a number one to 0:03:41.200 --> 0:03:43.800 tell you that this band is like the biggest in 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:45.680 the world, right, Like this is kind of like the 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.400 stats quote for a lot of like really big kind 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:51.600 of global success type of stadium filling boy bands. I mean, 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:53.400 like One Direction is a great example of that, where 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.920 it's like number one hits don't necessarily measure the global 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.720 impact of a group like this. But BTS already broken 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:03.920 the dam for K pop globally as a crossover artist, 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:06.880 you know, well before the song blew up, And you know, 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:08.840 it's just kind of a sort of solidified that in 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:10.320 a lot of ways, it's sort of just kind of 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.840 further solidified that legacy of what they had done for 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:17.279 K pop as a genre, for idol groups overall. For 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:19.880 that kind of like legacy of that in this particular 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.920 moment where they can be a crossover success in any capacity. 0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:28.080 Yeah, really, while also that it came so soon after 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.719 I mean the whole map of the Soul franchise and 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:33.400 just how complex that is. What I think made them 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.880 like so forbidding and intimidating to people, Like when they 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:38.840 first started to crossover in this part of the world 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.520 was just that they were not what people figured when 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.400 people heard the words k pop or boy band, they 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:47.840 had an image of one thing, and like bts were 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:51.159 just so complex in terms of the mythology and in 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.600 terms of you know, it's like, yeah, they do concept 0:04:53.600 --> 0:04:57.000 albums about Nietzsche and Kyl Jung and like this, this 0:04:57.080 --> 0:04:59.839 is what they do. Like nothing they do is watered down. 0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:03.320 So for them to do Dynamite a very simple, accessible 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.360 across the board, anybody hearing this could like it at 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:08.880 first listen, just a real statement in itself. 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:12.080 Yeah, I mean with Dynamite, I mean, with this kind 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.560 of like further breakthrough post map of the Soul everything 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:16.479 that was going on, I mean of course, like Map 0:05:16.480 --> 0:05:18.600 of the Soul was already massive in its own right. 0:05:19.279 --> 0:05:20.240 They were a decade in. 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:22.839 At this point since they had first formed, and you know, 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:25.440 seven years since they made their debut. But I love 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.839 kind of like the origin of RM being this like 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.279 underground wrapper and like this Big Hit Wine to create 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:34.920 a hip hop group around him. So Sugar and Jay 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.240 Hope were the first ones recruited and eventually kind of 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.120 decided to pivot to an idol group. And we're having 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:44.200 like struggling getting people to audition to be part of 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.159 an idol group. I mean, now Big Hit Entertainment is 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:48.760 like one of the biggest names in kpop globally, I 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.200 mean just in pop music globally, and we're kind of, 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.279 you know, a very lesser known label at that point. 0:05:54.320 --> 0:05:57.880 But Yeah, eventually formed a group in twenty ten, spent 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:00.920 three years training. They were like living together. They were 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:04.560 spending like fifteen hours a day training and practicing to 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:08.240 become this like powerhouse group. I mean you can tell 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:10.440 and like every single one of the performances, like they 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.159 are just like incredibly talented, each of them, And you know, 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:18.200 in twenty thirteen, made their debut and started releasing music 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:20.920 under big hit and obviously I've become one of the 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:22.920 one of the biggest bands in history. 0:06:23.680 --> 0:06:27.279 Yeah, and did it by playing up their weirdness. I mean, 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:30.360 it is funny, especially when they started to like make 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:34.839 inroads here where you know, there's real resistance to boy bands. 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:39.679 People like never really appreciate them. The whole tradition legacy 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:43.239 is that they have this pop audience that they start 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:47.039 with and other audiences really threatened by that. I know 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:49.560 the memory is similar for you. But when one of 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:50.800 the first times that they were on one of the 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:54.320 American late night chat shows and there was this funny 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:56.560 idea of like, how we'll dress them up is the Beatles. 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.440 Oh playing at Sullivan doesn't hold up great with time. 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:03.120 Yeah now, but even at that time seemed like really 0:07:03.160 --> 0:07:07.520 like uncomprehending of how original they were and the idea 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:11.720 the only way Americans could appreciate this was by channeling 0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.320 it through something that they already knew that was from 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:19.440 England and got it completely backwards, because BTS became stadium 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:24.239 band here just by being themselves and honestly, they didn't 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:26.920 have any songs that sounded like the Beatles, and they 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.000 just they weren't like the Beatles. They were their own 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:30.600 kind of thing. 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:32.760 Yeah, I mean, it was one of those things, especially 0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:35.720 with K pop iidle groups. I mean, they've existed for 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.520 a very long time, and these groups have always been 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.480 very very successful and massive in a lot of ways 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:44.120 in a lot of markets. Obviously, there was very little 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:48.080 breakthrough in the American market until BTS. I mean other 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:51.400 than cy blowing up and becoming kind of like this 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:54.680 viral like mean sort of sort of artist and song 0:07:54.720 --> 0:07:57.520 with Gongenham style. But I mean BTS was that kind 0:07:57.560 --> 0:08:01.480 of like really important art group. But that like really 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:04.360 helped kind of show for a lot of like American 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.320 industry experts and people who are like paying attention to 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.680 really great pop music that this was like a massive 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.120 global success and something worth paying attention to and bigger 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:18.160 than are previously seeing kind of quantifiable ways of measuring success. 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:19.960 That's such a brilliant way to put it. They were 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:22.920 just outside any model that people could use in any 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:26.160 I mean, certainly like going back in time to when 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:29.400 they were first making records, it would have been easy 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:32.280 for any American expert in the music busins to say 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.800 what they should do. If you want to be popular here, 0:08:34.840 --> 0:08:38.199 It's like, Okay, first you have to do some songs 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:41.079 in English. You have to do duets with very famous 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.800 American stars who have fallen on hard times, which is 0:08:44.840 --> 0:08:46.640 why they're doing this kind of duet. You need to 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:48.920 pick some members of the group and make them the 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.560 front people. You need to really limit what they do, 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:55.680 so it's very understandable and accessible. And it's almost like 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:59.040 they anticipated that advice and did the exact opposite of 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.400 all that stuff, and that their story couldn't have happened 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:04.360 if they'd tried to compromise in any way. 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:06.839 Yeah, And I mean it's such a great story of 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:09.160 kind of the power of fandom. I mean, this is 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.120 just like a band that is very close with their 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.480 with the BTS Army, with their fans, like has kind of, 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:21.800 you know, just organically built this like really worldwide network 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:25.240 of people who love them and kind of appreciate the 0:09:25.240 --> 0:09:27.680 fact that they exist in this way where they have 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.520 their their personalities, they each have like their strengths, and 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:32.320 you know, I mean we're seeing this now with their 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.200 solo releases that they're they're rolling out. I mean, there's 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:39.040 so much talent kind of locked into this group, Like 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.840 people just could not like had not seen something like 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:42.360 that before. 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:45.200 Yeah, it was funny that in terms of them, in 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:48.440 terms of like Dynamite being them's, it couldn't have been 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:52.600 Dynamite if they'd done it as a step up into 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:56.040 the English language or American market. It was really something 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.000 that only became the triumph it became because they did 0:09:59.040 --> 0:10:01.800 it after they didn't need that kind of that move anymore. 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.160 Like they're duet with Megan. They didn't do that to 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.439 get more popular. Yeah, Like they did that because they 0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:10.359 were so popular. Yeah, because they had such a fascinating 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:14.720 combination with Megan. Yeah, that record is just so unique 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.079 for both of them, Like they did not need to 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.240 meet each other in the middle, and they didn't. 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:21.760 Yeah, and even with Dynamite, I mean, this is like 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:23.679 one of the first songs that none of them had 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.600 a hand in writing too. Like they like them, they've 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.200 been writing their own music since they were you know, 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:30.400 kids like that, they've been doing this the entire time. 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.800 Is like also especially given how part of the success 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.080 of BTS is kind of they were writing from this 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.560 place of this like very real you know. They have 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.400 like the school series where they're talking about their experiences 0:10:41.520 --> 0:10:44.520 as teens and they're they're translating that to their music 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:46.640 and kind of what they were going through, and that's 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:49.560 always been such an important part of their success and 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:52.040 of their music. And I think we talk about that 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:54.559 all the time with so many artists who. 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:55.280 Start really young. 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:57.720 Is like, what draws in those fans and what draws 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:00.080 and people caring about them is them just kind of 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.520 relaying that experience of being young and what it's like 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.640 to a new generation of people who are young and 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.160 trying to make sense of the world. And that's exactly 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:12.240 what BTS was doing for their fans from the you know, 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:15.200 from the time they broke and from the time they debuted. 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:17.920 Yeah, you made such a crucial point about them in 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.120 terms of their evolution that this happens after the Internet 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.920 has created a new kind of fan community, fan culture 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.880 that exists independent of the conventional music industry, so that 0:11:28.960 --> 0:11:32.040 they could really do an end run around the conventional 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:36.079 industry just because it was so suddenly so accessible for 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:40.079 people around the world from all different cultures, all different generations, 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:44.800 all different languages, all different styles of music, so accessible 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:46.720 for people to find that music and make their own 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:47.440 connection to it. 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:49.840 Yeah, and I think like it's always you know, interesting 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.480 talking with people about kind of like what those origins 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:57.439 of really like massive sort of fan networks online where 0:11:57.440 --> 0:11:59.280 and I think everyone sort of has different answers, right, 0:11:59.320 --> 0:12:01.679 because I mean like there's like, you know, people think 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.560 about Low Monsters and like how they function online, but 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:06.839 like you know, in comparison to like One Direction, right, 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:08.880 Like you know, the Low Monsters were less involved with 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.720 like the success of Lady Gaga as like you know, 0:12:11.800 --> 0:12:14.760 directioners were involved with the success of One Direction. But 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:16.520 you know, like I mentioned earlier, like it's so much 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.120 like K pop fandom existing online because this was like 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:20.600 that kind of global connection. 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.719 Is that feels so much to me like the. 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:27.559 Defining aspect of of how internet fandoms formed and how 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:31.880 they work on you know, from different chat rooms and 0:12:32.320 --> 0:12:34.280 you know kind of the kind of nascent version of 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.280 ways people talk to each other online to like Humblr 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:40.040 and MySpace and Twitter now and then. 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:40.920 TikTok and all of that. 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.360 That feels like that origin and sort of that kind 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.520 of natural progression of making an act like BTS become 0:12:46.559 --> 0:12:47.360 as big as. 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.480 They have become, absolutely and boy, like what you said 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:52.840 about the army, like being part of the group is 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:57.720 so true. And that's such a long tradition for boy bands, 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.320 and yet they always have this song that's about you know, 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:04.080 the fans. They always have the tribute. They always know 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:06.679 that the audience is there. They've all got the classic 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:10.199 song that's you know, they're larger than life, They're you know, 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.400 like thank you girls. There's song that's directly to the audience, 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:16.760 and that BTS just made such a tradition of that 0:13:17.200 --> 0:13:20.280 in itself. So many great love songs that come on 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:22.880 and you go through them as conventional love songs, but 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:27.160 they're heard and meant to be heard as you know, 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:30.079 songs between the boys and their audience. 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.240 Yeah, And I'm curious, like, do you think that Dynamite 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:38.439 will be that like I want it that way for BTS, 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.240 Like or do you see another song or maybe we 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:42.200 haven't heard that song yet, but do you think that 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:44.839 this will become that song for them? Or do you 0:13:44.880 --> 0:13:46.920 have another one that you feel stands out in that way? 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:49.719 Wow, it's interesting. Would you say, we don't know if 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.000 Dynamite is going to go down in history as the one. 0:13:52.400 --> 0:13:55.920 It's funny like Dynamite is one that just it stands 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.640 out as a highlight, but I don't know if it'll 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.880 go down in history as you know, the highlight of 0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:01.600 this phase at least. 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:03.679 Yeah, And I mean just even like the timing, you know, 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:05.480 of course, in twenty twenty two, you know, all the 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.040 members ended up having to put this on pause so 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:12.040 that they can do their eighteen months of mandatory military 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:14.280 service in South Korea. They're all kind of doing it 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:17.079 at different times and obviously depending on age and kind 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:19.640 of going in order of that. So they've been slowly 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:24.080 rolling out solo albums, which have also done extremely well 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:27.760 and been really like massive successes for them. Though I 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.720 am curious kind of what happens in twenty twenty five, 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.040 which is when they said they would end up returning 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:35.160 to the group and releasing more music, and what that 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:37.680 will look like. I trust them more than other boy 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.000 bands that have said that they're on hiatus, So I'm 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:43.880 gonna I'm gonna believe that they're they will come back together, 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:46.520 because it did feel like it was just a kind 0:14:46.560 --> 0:14:49.320 of a new a new beginning for them as a group. 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:51.680 Yeah, And this is always a hiatus to head a 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:55.440 particular purpose. Yeah, and they knew this was coming. This 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:57.360 is part of like a long term planning for them. 0:14:57.400 --> 0:14:58.360 It didn't come by surprise. 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:00.920 Yeah, Obviously, strategy can't tell you like how big a 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:03.680 band will get, like, no matter how well you're strategizing. 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:05.120 But they knew it was coming. 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:07.280 It just so happened that they were one of the 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:09.640 best selling acts of the world. Yes, as the time 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:10.640 that happened. 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.040 Yeah, for something like Dynamite, and when it came at 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:16.440 a time when they didn't have to work through conventional 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.360 North American media. I think a lot of us associate 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.720 Dynamite with when they were on the Grammys doing Dynamite, 0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:25.840 and it was a first for them to be doing 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:28.120 one of their songs on the Grammys. They were on, 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.600 you know, the year before doing soul Town Road, which 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:35.520 was a phenomenal ten second moment in the Grammys. 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:37.880 Bedne I'm almost completely forgot about. That was such a 0:15:37.880 --> 0:15:38.320 good moment. 0:15:38.480 --> 0:15:39.680 It was such a great moment. 0:15:40.280 --> 0:15:42.200 And next up, we will be joined by Michelle Kim, 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.640 who is a freelance editor and writer whose work has 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:48.080 appeared in Rolling Stone, Pitchfork, Teen, Vogue, The Guardian, and 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:52.680 much more. We are joined now by Michelle Kim, who 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.320 is an amazing freelance writer and editor who's written for 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.240 Rolling Stone and numerous other outlets. And thank you so 0:15:58.320 --> 0:15:59.440 much for joining us today. 0:15:59.640 --> 0:16:00.440 Thanks you having me. 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:01.480 Yeah, I'm very excited. 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:04.080 So I mean, tell us a little bit about the 0:16:04.120 --> 0:16:08.200 origins of both your BTS fandom and also covering them. 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:14.160 Yes, so, honestly, I have sort of a maybe complicated 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.040 relationship with K pop, or I did have growing up 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.320 because I was super into it in middle school. 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:20.800 Was super into Big Bang. 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:23.680 That was like my original group, if you will. But 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:25.920 then as I kind of got older, I didn't really 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:28.720 know if I wanted to keep on listening to the 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.600 Korean music because I didn't know if I wanted to 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.160 fit in more within like my American school, and whenever 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.720 I listened to Korean music, I felt kind of alienated 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:40.880 from it. So I knew of BTS and I kept 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:43.040 up with their singles. I had friends who liked them, 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:45.800 so I knew them as they were kind of rising 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:49.880 from I would say, like twenty seventeen when DNA got 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:54.160 really big, and then in the pandemic, everything sort of 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.200 blew up with Dynamite, and that was also a time 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.960 when we were all isolated. I was kind of looking 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.640 inwards myself and trying to figure out, like what's going on. 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.320 And I think BTS was actually like a really important 0:17:07.320 --> 0:17:10.879 part of me, like taking Korean classes for the first time, 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:14.560 like connecting back to my heritage, and just because there 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.520 was so much content, I kind of just like fell 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:18.640 into this k pop hole. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:19.320 Yeah. 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:20.280 Yeah. 0:17:20.320 --> 0:17:22.879 And I mean from your perspective too of being a 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:24.680 young fan of you know, a lot of idol groups 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.480 and artists, like what was sort of that development of 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.120 the popularity of Korean music in the US or kind 0:17:31.119 --> 0:17:34.240 of especially leading up to BTS breaking through and kind 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.879 of building sort of even more success in the US 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.280 and allowing you know, I guess, like more recognition for 0:17:39.280 --> 0:17:41.960 a lot of other artists from South Korea. But I'm curious, 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.080 like what your perspective is of especially the online fandom 0:17:45.080 --> 0:17:45.840 portion of Yes. 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.119 Yeah, So I would say growing up it was pretty 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:51.639 niche to like K pop, And I would say that 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:54.720 there was some sort of like enclaves of communities, probably 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:57.400 more on the West Coast in California that like, we're 0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:00.520 super into it as a niche thing that they liked. 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.159 But I grew up on the East Coast, so like 0:18:03.240 --> 0:18:05.960 fandom was pretty fragmented for me, and there's just some 0:18:06.160 --> 0:18:09.040 songs that like me and my brother listened to only 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:12.280 from what it felt like for me. But during the pandemic, 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.760 like I said, since everyone was inside looking for an 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:19.040 escape from their dreary, like just waking up in your 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:22.280 own house every day. I think that because K pop 0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:26.359 produces so much content around the music itself, whether that's 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:29.720 music videos, behind the scenes footage and them goofing around, 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.240 and also just a lot of idol groups making what 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.800 they call variety content, which is just them like playing 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.280 games with each other like you would see on a 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.960 variety show. And I think BTS actually kind of kicked 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.639 off this huge trend of idols doing that sort of 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:50.280 content because they started their run BTS series I think 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:53.560 in twenty fifteen, where they just would hang out play games. 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:54.560 It was super funny. 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.600 You got to see the members' personalities outside of their 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:01.520 very serious stage persona, and I think at that time 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.120 and during the pandemic, a lot of people started watching 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:08.359 that show, watching their YouTube video. They have behind the 0:19:08.359 --> 0:19:11.080 scenes content called punk t on Bombs, which are just 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:16.760