WEBVTT - Good Samaritan 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:02.400 What you hear in this podcast does not implicate any 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:05.800 individual or entity in any criminal activity. The views and 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:09.119 opinions are solely those of the individuals participating in the podcast. 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:18.760 Previously on the Missionary My Friend Napocosa went to View 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.440 with Jesus. She told the story of Napocosa basically all 0:00:22.480 --> 0:00:24.880 about how this girl was so neglected and abused her 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.800 whole life until you know, Renee came in and saved her, 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.720 and her fundraising took off on the back of that story. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.839 But this is God's perfect end of her story, and 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:37.800 the story is not mine to write. The Musunglus that 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.120 found Napocosa, they're saying that she was neglected, that they 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:46.680 were trying to starve for Yeah, that's yeah, She's saying, 0:00:47.120 --> 0:00:52.880 you know, to us in Ducks, we are lying. A 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:55.720 Christian missionary is finding to clear her name tonight, following 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:59.480 accusations by two mothers in Uganda and a group called 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:03.279 No White Saviors that the Virginia woman contributed to the 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.240 deaths of they say, hundreds of babies by treating them 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.320 without a medical license. Renee, that is a serious allegation. 0:01:09.480 --> 0:01:13.399 How do you respond? First off, I have never represented 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:17.919 myself as a medical professional or health worker of any type. UM. 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:22.720 The organization serving his children hires UH medical professionals that 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:27.360 are Ugandan, UM, local and national folks, and UM I 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:31.160 have assisted our medical team in emergency settings and in 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:34.880 crisis situations. UM, but I have never practiced medicine, and 0:01:34.920 --> 0:01:37.880 I have never adorned or put on any sort of 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:41.959 The segment is about five minutes long. Renee Box wearing 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:46.200 a ruffled blouse, her blonde hair formally swept back behind 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.720 her ear children and personal growth. I realized, and she 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.600 looks nervous. I wasn't even needed. She swivels in her 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:55.280 chair and her eyes darted around looking at someone off screen. 0:01:55.400 --> 0:02:00.240 And so these accusations are incredibly disappointing, as I've spent 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.840 a majority of my adulthood UM serving in Uganda. It 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:06.800 was the first anyone had seen of Box since she 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:09.800 left Uganda in late two thousand eighteen, a couple of 0:02:09.800 --> 0:02:12.080 months before the lawsuit was filed. And you've gotten in court. 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:17.520 Renee's attorney, David Gibbs, was split screen to Ansuer. So, David, 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.360 I know that you have said, UM, you believe this 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:24.120 group is potentially defaming her. They may be libelious and 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:28.520 slandering her. Would you consider legal action in return? Do 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.440 you think your case is strong enough? Well, Shannon, absolutely, 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:33.880 the case would be strong enough. The problem with these 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.799 reputational terrorists on the internet putting out information it's not 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:42.120 fact based, and it's very sad when a missionary, humanitarian 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.320 or any individual from the United States or any developed 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:47.760 nation wants to go into a third world or a 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:50.800 health crisis somewhere like da Uganda and they come under 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:54.480 these attacks with no way to really defend yourself affectively. 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:57.640 For months, I thought I was on a fool's errand 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.720 Renee was somewhere in Virginia according to our best guests, 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.440 unwilling to talk, and then she popped up on Fox News. 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:08.280 But it was my role on the team to understand 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:11.640 Renee's version of what happened and to interview her closest defenders, 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:15.120 which I was finding was going to require a lot 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:19.120 more patients and imagination than I anticipated. So there definitely 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.280 is a movement right now and the white savior complex 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:25.560 or white saviorism or kind of hot button topics um 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:27.840 at least in the world that I come from. In 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:32.120 association with I Heart Media I'm Malcolm Burnley, I'm Rogie Gola, 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:36.320 I'm Hollema Condi, and this is the Missionary episode three, 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:46.320 Good Samaritan. I've spoken to David Gibbs less than a 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:50.520 week before this interview aired in June. My only other 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.800 outreach to Renee had been through her mother, Laurie. She 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:56.440 took my calls for about six months until she eventually 0:03:56.440 --> 0:04:00.880 stopped responding and texted me a number I longed to Gibbs. 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:04.320 It turns out Gibbs has a history with Fox News. 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:08.440 David Gibbs joins us. He was the attorney for Terry 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:11.560 Shivo's family, and he's now President and General counsel of 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.680 the National Center for Life and Liberty. David, thanks for 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:15.800 joining us, Shannon. It's a joy to be with you 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:18.840 on this Sunday, all right, So, Michael Shivo. If the 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:21.960 name Terry Shivo rings a bell, that's because her case 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:24.320 was a big deal. Back in the early two thousands. 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:29.000 Shivo quite simply redefined life and death in America, along 0:04:29.000 --> 0:04:32.080 with the government's role in each of those things. The 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:36.240 ongoing debates over vaccines, abortion coverage, and the line between 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:39.560 individual freedom and public health in this pandemic they all 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.000 called back to Shiva. It was a war of ideas, 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.800 and Gibbs was on the front line. Is Governor Bush 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.920 was not trying to decide whether Terry Shiva lived or died. 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.400 He just wanted to make sure that fair new profit. 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.520 Shivo was a woman who had been comatose for fifteen 0:04:57.600 --> 0:05:01.400 years when her husband us to pull life support. The 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:06.039 case made headlines and quickly became political. Everyone from the 0:05:06.080 --> 0:05:09.840 Pope to President George W. Bush weighed in. Shivo had 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:14.039 no hope for improvement, according to doctors. Gibbs represented the 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.920 parents who wanted to keep her alive. We knew ultimately 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.159 her life was in the hands of God, but the 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.240 concern was that here was this woman who had no lawyer, 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.320 The judge never came to see her, and she was 0:05:26.360 --> 0:05:30.039 going to die in this painful way. Shivo became a 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:34.200 martyr for pro life causes, and Gibbs was her apostle. 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.359 He wrote a book, Fighting for Dear Life when it 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.400 was all over, then founded a legal ministry that quote 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:50.479 serves to protect and defend Bible based values. Gibbs got 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.640 famous by asserting a woman's right to life, and now 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:56.400 he was defending a woman accused of taking life away. 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:02.440 We were originally contacted by a pastor in the Virginia 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:06.680 area that was familiar with Renee and her mom and 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.480 dad and also was one of the supporters of serving 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:13.880 as children. Our goal has been to help them as 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.920 they have worked through, you know, a very complicated media universe. 0:06:18.240 --> 0:06:20.719 In the first two episodes, you heard a lot of 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:24.680 the accusations about Renee's medical involvement. In a five hundred 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:28.600 fifty page response to the lawsuits, she denies practically everything, 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:33.120 wearing a white coat, experimental dosing, even the blood transfusions. 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:35.080 And so I think I thought Gibbs might try to 0:06:35.160 --> 0:06:38.440 overwhelm me with the details, plucking apart the allegations in 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:42.080 the lawsuit. She wasn't going in and doing surgeries, cutting 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:46.000 people open, you know, doing hearts or brains or I 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:51.320 mean things that obviously you need a lot of medical expertise, 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.760 and you need sophisticated training as well as staff. They're 0:06:55.800 --> 0:07:00.719 providing nutrition services to combat a crisis that literally the 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.240 hospitals and others were unable to handle just due to 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:08.280 the volume. But mostly he focused on Renee's character and 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:10.920 he painted with a broad brush. Gibbs told me that 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:13.280 Renee was a good Samaritan. He said that she had 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:15.280 nothing to be sorry for it at all. Um. I 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:18.440 saw Renee's work and what she had done over her 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.360 time in Uganda is something that should be encouraged and 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:25.360 lifted up. And I was watching her be, you know, 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:30.320 literally crucified for trying to do the right thing. These families, 0:07:30.360 --> 0:07:34.640 when you're desperate, they know their daughters dying, Renee is, 0:07:34.680 --> 0:07:37.880 they're willing to help, and they're seeking help. The Renee's 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.280 of the world and others like her should be allowed 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:46.480 to provide help. According to her lawyer, Renee's story wasn't 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.960 about death, it was about life. Renee went to Uganda 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.680 looking to preserve it and fight for it, just like 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:57.160 Gibbs did with Shiva. They're ignoring the fact that thirty 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.200 six hundred children had their lives saved. What Sir Ring 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:03.240 his children did with a medical team there in Uganda 0:08:03.360 --> 0:08:06.600 and under Renee's leadership, was truly remarkable. A lot of 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:09.040 people would walk away from a scene like that in Uganda, 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:13.040 maybe donate a few dollars, share a link on social media, 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.400 but they don't usually lean in like Renee two Gibbs. 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:22.240 That's commendable. If you're on an airplane and you've got 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.440 a dying child and you walk up to someone that's 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:26.120 say can you help me? And the person says, I 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:30.880 think I can. You're in in the Good Samaritan emergency situation, 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:32.800 and do we want to get to the point where 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.440 the doctor on the airplane says, you know what, I 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.280 don't want my name and reputation ruined. I don't want 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.240 to get sued. I don't want to get accused of 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.280 killing this guy. I think I'm just gonna stay in 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:46.720 my seat, buckled in, and whatever happens happens. But what 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.320 if on that plane during that emergency, some do gooder 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.560 pulls out a stethoscope from the overhead and pretends to 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:57.400 be a doctor. That's more like what Renee is accused of. 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:10.920 After that Fox interview, I figured what the hell? I 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:14.760 just drive to Renee's hometown. Bedford, Virginia is six hours 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:18.559 away from Philly. I let Gibbs know that I was 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.840 heading there, but as I got closer, something unexpected happened. 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.880 Gibbs sent me the address to a church. He basically said, 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:34.880 if I wanted to meet Renee, I could h This 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.920 was Renee's home court a brick church on a suburban street, 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:42.600 and when I entered the church, I noticed they still 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.120 had a flyer for Serving His Children on the bulletin board. 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:49.560 The flyer asked for donations from cycle breakers to help 0:09:49.720 --> 0:09:53.640 end malnutrition in Uganda. Renee and Laurie Bach I don't 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:55.000 know if they mentioned that we're gonna be there, said 0:09:55.000 --> 0:10:01.360 there's a library. The receptionist was and expecting me, so 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:07.760 she called for the Reverend Maltain Burley. Thank you. At 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:11.360 the top of a flight of stairs, I found a classroom. 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:14.360 The chairs were stocked around the perimeter and the chalkboard 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:20.080 was wiped clean. I do thank you so much. A 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.079 woman was waiting for me. She wore a hoodie, jeans 0:10:24.320 --> 0:10:26.680 and a half hearted smile when she shook my hand. 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:32.800 Could you just introduce yourself, say your name and my name, 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:37.720 and I guess your affiliation with serving I'm Renee Back, 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:43.559 the founder and former director of Serving his Children. People 0:10:43.600 --> 0:10:46.000 ask me if Renee's in jail when I casually bring 0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:49.280 up this story. Renee is free to celebrate birthdays with 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:53.080 her two adopted daughters, eat home cooked meals, and isn't 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.880 even charged with a felony in the US or in Uganda, 0:10:56.840 --> 0:10:59.800 but she seemed tense, perhaps unconvinced this was a good 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:02.680 due to be talking with me. It's hard, but tell 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.600 me where you're at right now and what you how 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:09.760 you've been yet. Yeah, it's been challenging for sure. No 0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:13.240 one wants to be be said to be, you know, murderer, 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:16.920 but there has been and there will be some pretty 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.840 serious counseling after all this. Um, it's been pretty emotionally damaging, 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.240 no doubt. I'm not trying to play the victim in 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.920 that or anything, but to hear it from her, she's 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.120 in a special kind of deal. She isn't working, and 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:33.680 she assumes she may never work again. She says. Strangers 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:36.040 stop her in public and ask if she's the one 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.880 people have forgotten that I'm a human, like in a 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:44.400 person with emotions and someone who has children that are 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:46.640 going to grow up one day and google their mom's 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.120 name and say, Wow, was my mom a serial killer? 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:51.560 Did she start a genocide? Because that's what people said 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.439 about her. Renee was even in touch with the FBI 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.640 regarding death threads. I'm being watched closely, like I'm being 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.680 watched in my home I'm being watched everywhere I go. 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.520 I feel like people are watching me. I've visited my 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:06.840 sister in California and people were taking pictures in the 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:10.280 airport of me. Renee's sister is an actual doctor, by 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.560 the way, you know, the police have put cameras up 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:15.080 at my parents house and all kinds of things like that, 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.000 which is very unusual because I grew up in an 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.720 environment where like, you go out of town for two 0:12:19.720 --> 0:12:21.240 weeks and you don't lock your door because what if 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:22.959 the neighbor needs a cup of sugar, you know, and 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:25.079 just like can wander on over. And that's just a 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:28.000 terrible feeling to feel insecure about your safety and the 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.559 safety of your kids and your family. And yeah, it's 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:39.120 been really sad, to be honest. Renee sounded paranoid, which 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:42.600 explained why we were meeting in a clandestine location. I 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:44.520 was asked to keep the name of the church anonymous 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:48.000 gibbs Us on speaker phone. Her mother, Laurie, was taking 0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.920 notes on a laptop off to the side. They were 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:53.199 all eager to position Renee as a victim of an 0:12:53.200 --> 0:12:57.640 online smear campaign. Here's Laurie box Well on social media. 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:03.440 Has facilitated a whole made up story that you know, 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.680 you can just say what you want and it's viewed 0:13:06.679 --> 0:13:10.800 as the Gospel treat which is scary. World. Yeah, Renee 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:13.520 was playing the victim here no matter what she said, 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.120 and this mountain case against her. It was obviously not 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:21.080 fake news. We do uncovered too much already. It was 0:13:21.120 --> 0:13:24.520 also true, though, that Renee was getting hammered all over 0:13:24.600 --> 0:13:29.600 social media tweets like she's the butcher of Uganda and 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.840 her name is Renee Bach and in a parallel universe, 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.200 Hollywood will make a billion dollar fictional movie about this, 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.920 and somehow managed to paint Renee Bach as a complicated, 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:46.400 tragically flawed, and yet well intentioned woman whispers we inhabit 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:53.240 the parallel universe. Despite this, Renee was optimistic and listening 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:56.280 to Monica Lewinsky's Ted talk. A lot of what she 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:59.160 says really resonates with me. And that like her name 0:13:59.360 --> 0:14:02.840 was just put it on like the scandal, you know, 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.720 it was like the Monica Lewinsky scandal, and so people 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:10.600 forgot that she was a human being, an evangelical woman 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:15.319 finding solace in Monica Lewinsky. I definitely didn't expect that, 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.319 but I understood what she meant once I listened to 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:22.480 Lewinsky's Ted talk, what that meant for me personally was 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:26.640 that overnight I went from being a completely private figure 0:14:27.720 --> 0:14:33.960 to a publicly humiliated one worldwide. I was patient zero 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:40.240 of losing a personal reputation on a global scale almost instantaneously. 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:45.400 But the more Renee talked about Lewinsky, the more I 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:49.120 realized she was making a different point entirely. For Renee, 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:53.240 Lewinsky was a story of redemption, like maybe she could 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.920 use this unwanted notoriety and channel it into good, into 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:00.440 a form of service. Here's Renee again for good. I 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.440 mentioned Monica Lewinski before, but it's been cool to see 0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.760 her like now really creating this platform and foundation for 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:10.800 you know, anti bullying and cyber bullying and things like that. 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.720 I think that, like what a cool testimony of taking 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:17.960 something that was so horrific and so destructive and turning 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:21.120 it into a way to really like resonate with people 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.720 in a really hard spot and really help people. So 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.680 seeing a few people that have gone through really hilacious 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:31.480 trials um and kept their head up and been honoring 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:39.360 has been a life giving encouragement to me. I'll admit 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.840 I was deeply interested in the fall from Grace narratives, 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.280 what it was like to be chosen and special in 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:50.320 one moment, exiled in the next. But I never got 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.080 what I wanted. I never got the Renee of her 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.720 blog posts. Her storytelling and introspection were much less impactful. 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:01.480 In person. Something felt like it was just missing or 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:05.160 it was guarded from me. And then Renee started telling 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:09.840 me why that those blog posts were deeply flawed and 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:12.400 the problem with them was that they had an unreliable 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:18.000 narrator Renee herself and a lot of my years of blogging. 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:22.200 I was young, and I wanted to share, like life 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:24.880 can look so different than what I thought it looked 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.960 like as a girl from a rural town in America. Yeah, 0:16:28.960 --> 0:16:32.440 so I wanted people to understand that, like, there's this 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:36.120 world outside of yourself that's so amazing and so beautiful 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:40.600 and so raw and like so painful, but like also 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:42.840 can be so beautiful, and like a mural can be 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:46.800 making made out of that brokenness. Um, and I really 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:48.560 did want to convey that to the readers. And I 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.360 mean when we first came across the blogs, they felt 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:55.600 like journalistic treasure. Thirty two thousand words that came straight 0:16:55.640 --> 0:17:00.520 from Renee. Each passage a fossil on the sand, together 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:05.760 a skeleton for our entire investigation. Now, Renee was claiming 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:08.119 that she had a propensity for stretching the truth in 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.280 her writing. And I think I really wrote in first 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.000 person a lot um, and so I would say, you know, oh, 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:18.200 this kid came in and then you know, we started 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:19.840 the idea, and how come up to oxygen and did 0:17:19.840 --> 0:17:22.080 all these things and um, and I think it really 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:25.439 reads as though I was doing those things personally, And 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:27.400 so I can understand how someone would read and think 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.040 like she's just doing all this stuff, like she knows 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.280 what she's doing, you know, um, whereas it was really 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.560 a team. It was so mind boggling it. Renee was 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.680 accused of being a fake doctor, and part of her 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:44.680 defense was to admit to misrepresenting herself in a different way. 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.640 You know, I wrote it as this was my experience, um, 0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:53.800 and instead of saying like the nurse ran whatever or um, right, 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.600 there were several people there that day, um, and so 0:17:56.760 --> 0:17:59.560 I was definitely involved in all the activities. Renee says 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:02.320 she kept writing in first person for a simple reason 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:06.080 because people will pay money to support that kind of narrative, 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:12.080 and we did. You know, people are emotional impulse givers, 0:18:12.560 --> 0:18:14.800 and so we did receive a lot of you know, 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.359 financial support through people who read my blogs. Um, just 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:22.000 reading and realizing the raw need and then feeling like, hey, 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:23.720 I want to be a part of that and would 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.879 give monetarily. So yeah, that was really the goal. And 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.480 I really we had spent hours occupied by these blogs. 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:34.320 They were so central to Renee's legend, which meant that 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.040 to accept her truth, to accept that broad swass of 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.960 her writing were fabrications. Well, then it threw into question 0:18:42.240 --> 0:18:45.199 everything we knew about Renee. Regieve. Do you remember what 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:49.360 you thought after spending all that time reading those blogs 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:54.800 to hear that Renee said they were actually exaggerated? Oh man, yeah, 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:59.480 I remember, just not knowing who Renee was anymore. I mean, 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.560 I've heard so many things, so much my understanding of 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:06.399 Renee came from the community, came from these blogs, and 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.280 everything was just falling out from underneath us, and I 0:19:10.280 --> 0:19:14.960 didn't know where we stood. Of course, there was another explanation, 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.439 and perhaps a simpler one, that Renee was denouncing her 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:22.000 blog post because well they looked bad. For her case, 0:19:22.600 --> 0:19:25.920 no one could prove she didn't exaggerate her writing, so 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:29.800 it was all too convenient. If we wanted to get 0:19:29.840 --> 0:19:32.960 to the bottom of who Renee really was, we needed 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:40.400 to go back to the beginning to Bedford, Virginia. Turn 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:43.560 the line onto East Main Street. Signs for US sixty 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:49.600 west US to North Virginia, North Virginia, Bedford. One of 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.359 the first things you noticed about Bedford, Virginia are the 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:56.200 lamp posts up and down Main Street. The post carry 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.480 the names and faces of the Bedford Boys, the young 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:02.000 bab be faced men who died at the beaches of 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:09.480 Normandy June ninth. The crossfire of German guns still rakes 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:12.840 the shore. The town lost more men per capita on 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.280 d Day than anywhere else in the country. Out on 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.040 the chunnel, the rescue boats of the Coast Guard are 0:20:18.119 --> 0:20:22.600 looking for survivors and aiding damaged vessels, and the hospital 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.960 ships are waiting for the Renee grew up among these ghosts. 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.320 Their spirit looms over the town. Wounded man has transferred 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:35.880 to another ship, the life saving blood plasma goes with him. 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.320 This idea of sacrificing for something that's bigger than yourself 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.720 It's easy to see how a young Renee was inspired 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:46.280 by that idea because it drives her family life too. 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:51.080 Here's Renee talking about her childhood on a quip FM 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:53.880 back when Renee was just a feel good story. I 0:20:53.920 --> 0:20:57.399 grew up in a family of five and basically lived 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:00.600 all of my young childhood and teenage years right here 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.879 in Bedford. I got saved, you could say, when I 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:06.960 was very young. Um, but it wasn't until my high 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.879 school in middle school years that I really understood what 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:13.600 having a relationship with Jesus Christ looked like. The box 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.399 live on a modest farm with a bunch of animals. 0:21:17.160 --> 0:21:22.760 The walls are lined with inspiration passages from philosophers, Bible versus, 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.920 even Mumford and Sons lyrics love It will not betray you, 0:21:27.320 --> 0:21:33.080 dismay or enslave you, It will set you free. Lorie 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:36.359 homeschooled Renee and her four siblings. She taught them to 0:21:36.400 --> 0:21:39.840 take risks and to pursue self mastery in their learning. 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:44.440 When she was ten, her parents started a nonprofit organization, 0:21:45.119 --> 0:21:48.960 Many Blessings Farm, where they provided writing therapy for children 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:53.840 with special needs. As a teenager, Renee scheduled volunteers spotted 0:21:53.920 --> 0:21:57.159 children on horseback and oversaw barn duty and so that 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.320 was a huge part of my middle school in high 0:22:00.320 --> 0:22:04.040 school years was doing hippotherapy. So you know, it's kind 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:07.359 of like therapeutic writing. Being able to just take part 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:10.120 in kids that were a little bit different than me 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.679 definitely sparked a desire and need to be able to 0:22:13.720 --> 0:22:17.920 help people. Um, just because there was one horse named 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:22.840 Sienna who stole Renee's heart. Later on, Sienna developed congenital 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:26.280 eye defects, and treating him meant around the clock care. 0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:30.320 Every four hours, someone had to apply a stinging ointment 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:33.639 to his eyes. Lauria wrote to me in an email. 0:22:34.560 --> 0:22:38.560 God used Renee's horse to teach her many things. Here's 0:22:38.600 --> 0:22:44.040 Lauria again in the alarm, go up every four hours, 0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:46.600 and Renee was to get up and get a flash 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:49.199 like the barn and me and home working comes back 0:22:49.240 --> 0:22:52.560 and go to Renee was like the valedictorian of her 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:56.639 tiny home school, destined for greater things. Everyone knew it. 0:22:57.520 --> 0:23:00.720 Here's Renee's youth pastor rich heart. She always had a 0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:02.800 book in her hand whenever she was by herself, and 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:04.280 I think it's one of the ways that she just 0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:07.800 she could self, teach herself, learn or you know, if 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:09.639 she didn't know the answer, she could find out. She 0:23:09.720 --> 0:23:13.400 had a great imagination and desire for discovery and adventure. 0:23:13.640 --> 0:23:16.679 Hopefully you can hear his admiration even with a crappy 0:23:16.720 --> 0:23:20.760 audio quality. But it wasn't just her intelligence or drive 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:24.239 that made her stand out in a religious community like 0:23:24.280 --> 0:23:27.280 the one Renee grew up in. Greatness is defined by 0:23:27.320 --> 0:23:30.520 service to others, and it didn't matter if Renee was 0:23:30.600 --> 0:23:35.000 volunteering at her family nonprofit or rebuilding homes after Katrina. 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:38.679 She was different. She was a leader, anointed by the 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:42.879 adults around her, a walking embodiment of selflessness. It wasn't 0:23:42.880 --> 0:23:46.000 this arrogance. It was never this condescending like I already 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:48.040 know the answer, you know. I mean, people can come 0:23:48.040 --> 0:23:51.400 in with confidence, but it can be abrasive. She never 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:54.760 had that. I mean, it was always a humility coupled 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:57.240 together with that confidence that just I think is what 0:23:57.400 --> 0:24:00.679 made her so approachable. And white people were just willing 0:24:00.680 --> 0:24:03.360 to be led by her, but wanted to follow her 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:09.680 because they trusted her. I spoke with Gibbs a week 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:13.000 before that Fox interview aired, a week before meeting Renee. 0:24:14.080 --> 0:24:16.159 But a week before that, I was sitting in a 0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:19.640 coffee shop with, as Gibbs would put it, her very 0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:23.879 own reputational terrorist. I think that a lot of white 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:28.160 people fetishize black suffering, were like get off on black suffering, 0:24:28.160 --> 0:24:30.840 And I think that's exactly what seeing those pictures of 0:24:30.840 --> 0:24:34.040 those like malnourished like Ugandan babies, people love that ship 0:24:34.840 --> 0:24:36.720 like it's just like pulling out my heart trees, like 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:39.280 there's something like you kind of like get off on it. 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:41.120 It's like really sick. And so that's why I think 0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:43.560