1 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Hey, this is a bridget and this is Emily, and 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: you're listening to stuff mom never told you. And today 3 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: on the show, I am so thrilled to talk to 4 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: a topic that really must play that in my life 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: in various times, various ways, and that is journaling. Emily, 6 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 1: Do you keep a journal? Are you kidding me? My 7 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: heart is like beating out of my chest because I 8 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: love journaling so much. I have still in my possession 9 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: journals that I started in the third grade. And I 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: wrote pretty regularly from the third grade up until a 11 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: few years after college. But things have waned since then 12 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 1: because I learned that I was actually a writer. I 13 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: think we used the term a journal er to describe 14 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: ladies writing, especially women writing about their own personal lives, 15 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: but really what that makes you was a writer. And 16 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 1: once I actually reconcile that in my brain, I started 17 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: writing a lot more publicly and started processing some of 18 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 1: those thoughts out loud. Would you say that journaling helps 19 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,200 Speaker 1: you discover yourself as a writer and take ownership over 20 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: that label. Yeah. I think my therapist actually was the 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: first person who said to me, oh, you're a writer 22 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,479 Speaker 1: when I mentioned that I've always journaled as a way 23 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: to process my thoughts. So what I can't take credit 24 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: for because I definitely didn't come to that realization of 25 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: my own, but it helped me become a better writer 26 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: for sure. I love that. I love that. I think 27 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: that your spot on you talk about the way that 28 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 1: women's writing in journals and diaries is often sort of 29 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: looked at historically as less important than you know, men's 30 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: writing and newspapers or books or blah blah blah. It's 31 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: sometimes sort of talked about like it's not as important. 32 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 1: But what's actually really interesting about women and journaling is 33 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 1: that a lot of literary scholars are actually going back 34 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: and looking at the journals and diaries of really well known, 35 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: famous women writers and making arguments about who they were, 36 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: and sort of putting our journals in conversation with some 37 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: of their more popular writing. I love it. It It makes 38 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 1: them historically salient from a personal perspective, not just based 39 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: on their professional success, which we've always done that with 40 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,680 Speaker 1: men's journals. If you think about the Founding Fathers, their 41 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: letters to the loved ones become anthologies. Their personal writings 42 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 1: and musings were seen as salient based on their historical 43 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,000 Speaker 1: pre eminence and power. But now I love seeing that 44 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 1: that's being done with some of the most famous and 45 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: influential and incredible female writers from literary history. Totally shout 46 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 1: out to Marry Helen Washington, who I actually tate for 47 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: when I was working on my PhD at University of Maryland. Um, 48 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: I was trying to get my PhD in African American 49 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: women's literature. Never actually ended up happening, sorry, Mom and dad, 50 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: but I did meet Dr Helen Washington there and she 51 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: was great. Um. She's actually doing a lot of literary 52 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: scholarship looking at the diaries and journals a famous Black 53 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: women writer. She has this great biography of Ida B. Wells, 54 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: who is one of my UM literary heroes really, who 55 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: was sort of known for her writing and cataloging and 56 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 1: really early data journalism around lynch ings and racism in 57 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: the South. But what's very interesting is that even though 58 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: I to be Wells is known publicly for her writing 59 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: around topics like race, her diaries really illustrate a very 60 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,799 Speaker 1: different side to her. Her diaries are full of writing 61 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 1: about romantic struggles, um conflicts she has with family money trouble, 62 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: which we were just talking about what our diaries contents 63 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: say about us off air and what did what did 64 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: we summarize your journaling? If my if, if the writings 65 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: of Bridget Todd was ever published, would probably be called 66 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: boy trouble and over traft fees the Bridget story. It's 67 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: like bank account fees and boys. I just think that's 68 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: so perfect, basically basically it um But yeah, what I 69 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: love about this is that it really shows that a 70 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: lot of women writers, it's in their journals, in their 71 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: diaries where they really feel free to be this this 72 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: different version of themselves, and sometimes that version of themselves 73 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: does not necessarily align with the writings they're known for 74 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: publicly right exactly, which makes me feel the sense of 75 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: freedom around being multifaceted women with lots of different kinds 76 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: of interests, like, for instance, Alice Dunbar, a poet and 77 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 1: activist and a d c native. In her personal diary 78 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: she wrote about her lesbian extramarital affairs, but which for 79 00:04:25,839 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: some reason didn't quite make it to her public writings 80 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 1: in quite as obvious away. So it's it feels like 81 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: your personal diary can be this escape where you are 82 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: free to be full of yourself. It's just for you 83 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: and now historians, God, I hope historians never look at 84 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: my diaries. Let me just make that completely clear on 85 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: the record, But historians are going back and better understanding 86 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 1: these talented women and understanding, you know, even if revealing 87 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: too much of their intimate lives could have cost them 88 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 1: their lives at one point in history, or we're selected poorly, 89 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 1: especially for black women like Alice Dunbar, not only in 90 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:08,279 Speaker 1: behalf of all women, but on behalf of the black community. 91 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: Now at this time, we're able to understand her with 92 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 1: some more progressive and compassionate and well rounded perspective totally. 93 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 1: Another famous female writers whose diaries I was super super 94 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: interested in is Virginia Wolfs. Her diary was the last 95 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 1: of her writings to be published, and what I found 96 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: so fascinating about some of the excerpts of her diary 97 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: that I read while researching this podcast are the ways 98 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: that the political climate of the day that she was 99 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: living in, you know, World War two, Hitler, all of 100 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: that really kind of took over her life in a 101 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 1: kind of way. And so her diaries show someone who 102 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: is struggling to be creative, having these creative ups and downs, 103 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: but so much of her Diaries is about what's happening 104 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: with Hitler, what's happening with World War two, to the 105 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: point where it's clear that she's not able to really 106 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: function regularly and creatively the way that she wants to 107 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 1: because she is so consumed with this. Are you relating 108 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: to this? Oh, I'm I was relating to it hardcore, hardcore. 109 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: So this is in she's revising her novel The Years, 110 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: which went on to be tremendously successful, and all of 111 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: this is happening with World War Two in the Rise 112 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,799 Speaker 1: of Hitler in the background. And so her diary excerpt 113 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 1: here I thought was really troubling, is one way to 114 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: say it. But you you are reading the words of 115 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: a woman on the verge of nervous collapse. Definitely, And 116 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: I mean again, I don't want to draw too many parallels, 117 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: but she has so many lines that I feel like 118 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 1: I relate to so much. This this one quote from 119 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,239 Speaker 1: her injury. She's looking at, you know, all this stuff 120 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 1: happening in politics. She writes, this idea struck me. The 121 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:40,359 Speaker 1: army is the body I am. The brain thinking is 122 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: my fighting. And that just gives me chills, because I 123 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 1: think if we didn't have her diaries, We would never 124 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 1: know that Virginia Wolfe was someone who for whom thinking 125 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: and writing and being a creative person, that was her 126 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: way of resisting and fighting back and you know, standing 127 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: up against what she was really watching on full with 128 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: these wide eyes kind of terrified. So we've already been 129 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: talking about the ways that these famous female writers journaling 130 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: have shown up in their lives and told us more 131 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 1: about their inner lives and really helped us understand their writing. 132 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: But what about the rest of us, What about us, 133 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 1: not famous writers or you know what if I'm not 134 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 1: Virginia wolf Right, that's kind of the high bar. It's 135 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: a high bar. Not all of us a Virginia wolf 136 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: But you know, what are the ways that journaling can 137 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: can really benefit us? So we're gonna dive into some 138 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: of that research right after this quick break and we're back. 139 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: We were just talking about how journaling has played at 140 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: in the lives of some of the most famous women 141 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: writers out there. But how can journaling help us? What 142 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: does the science say? Well, science has actually shown that 143 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: journaling is good for us. In fact, it's so well 144 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 1: regarded that there's a center for journal therapy dedicated exclusively 145 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: to the mental health benefits of regular journaling in therapeutic 146 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: and personal settings. Um, this was something that I found 147 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: kind of shocking. I've been an on agan Opican journal 148 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: or I certainly have found positive benefits, but I was 149 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: really surprised to see how overwhelming the sciences on this issue. 150 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 1: I felt going into this, like it was so woo woo, 151 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: you know, I was like, oh, you know your morning 152 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: pages or you know, a brain dumb and all the 153 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: sort of pop science that comes into planners and the 154 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: whole industry around journals can be really I'm very skeptical 155 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: of them. However, these are we're talking about peer reviewed 156 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: journal studies in the medical community that have some profound results. 157 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: So psychologists from the University of California were actually able 158 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: to investigate the effects of journaling by dividing twenty people 159 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: to their lab for a brain scan. Basically, they asked 160 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: some of these people to write about something really emotionally intense, 161 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: something that happened to them that was a big deal. 162 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: The others wrote about something neutral, just something basically what 163 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 1: happened to that they have no strong emotional attachment to. 164 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 1: And what they found is that those who shows to 165 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: write about the emotional experience showed more activity in the 166 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:13,079 Speaker 1: part of the brain called the right ventrolateral prefrontal cortex. Basically, 167 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:15,199 Speaker 1: this is a part of the brain that controls emotion 168 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: and mood. The study then showed that the folks who 169 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 1: wrote about these emotional experiences reported being more relaxed and 170 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: having a better mood. So, if you're writing about something 171 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: that actually has a big emotional significance to you, versus 172 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: writing about something that is just neutral, or is just blase, 173 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: or it's just casual, it actually can have a positive 174 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: impact on your mood. Right, And another researcher in the 175 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: field wasn't so convinced about this. Right, They said, Listen, 176 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:46,080 Speaker 1: the mere act of writing isn't necessarily beneficial, especially if 177 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 1: you're writing about something like trauma, which can trigger distress 178 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: and physical and emotional arousal in the brain. That's not 179 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: so pleasant. Not all people will work through that distress therapeutically, 180 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,240 Speaker 1: and basically it could leave you feeling really emotionally raw. 181 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: It's not just the act of writing, says psychologist Helen Marlowe. 182 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 1: She says, quote, I get concerned that if people just 183 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: write about traumatic events, they get raw and opened up 184 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: and aren't able to work through it on their own. 185 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: But that said, her study doesn't really provide any evidence 186 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: that writing poses a risk or any long term harm, 187 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: even if it does leave you feeling emotionally raw. I 188 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 1: can definitely identify with that skepticism around journaling. But here's 189 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: why you think she might be wrong. Basically, according to 190 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: this research, it really comes down to the kind of 191 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: journaling that people are doing. Um, there's evidence that the 192 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: nature of a person's writing is really key to tapping 193 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: into those health benefits. Researchers Susan Lutkendorff, PhD at the 194 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 1: University of Iowa did an intensive journaling study where she 195 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: found that really it's about how you're writing about these issues. 196 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: If you're writing about them and deriving some sort of 197 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: meaning from what you're writing about, meaning that you're you know, 198 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: being self critical or self reflective, you're using words that 199 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: show that you're processing these emotionally heavy things that you're 200 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: writing about, you actually can tap into these benefits. If 201 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: you're just writing about your emotions and you're just logging 202 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 1: them and not actually doing any of the work to 203 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: process them via writing, you actually end up fearing worse 204 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: than the folks in the study who wrote about neutral things, 205 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: And it's kind of similar if you think about it too, 206 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: parallels that have been drawn in the UH cognitive behavioral 207 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 1: therapy world. That same researcher, Penna Baker behind the UC studies, 208 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: said that people who talk about things over and over 209 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: in the same way aren't getting any better. There has 210 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: to be growth or change in the way they view 211 00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: their experiences. So really it's not the act of writing, 212 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 1: it's the quality of the journaling that you're doing. Are 213 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: you analyzing your emotions, are you exploring your perspectives, and 214 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 1: are you uh finding or drawing new conclusions? That, to me, 215 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,440 Speaker 1: is the beauty of journaling is that it's writing for 216 00:11:49,520 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: the explicit intent of exploration. If you're just writing to 217 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: chronicle or log or rant and rave, you might not 218 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: end up experiencing those positive benefits. The other thing that 219 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: I found most compelling, quite frankly, is that we're not 220 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: just talking about feeling better. The research shows in a 221 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: really compelling way that there are much more tangible, measurable 222 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: health benefits associated with journaling. Okay, when I first read this, 223 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: I thought it was BS, but I dug deep. I 224 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: looked at this study. I read it and it sounds legit. 225 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: According to a study by Joshua M. Smith, PhD, Arthur A. Stone, PhD, 226 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 1: and Adam Urrett's m d, journaling actually can improve your 227 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: immune system and can help you improve with symptoms of 228 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: things like asthma and rheumatoid arthritis. That sounds wild, right, 229 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: It sounds really really wild, But here's what they did. 230 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: So over the course of four months, patients in the 231 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: study were assigned to write either about the most stressful 232 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,880 Speaker 1: event of their lives and this is a sample size 233 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:54,079 Speaker 1: of seventy one was in that selection group, or about 234 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: emotionally neutral topics. So again, the control group here is writing. 235 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,920 Speaker 1: It's not that they're not writing, it's that the quality 236 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: of the writing is different. The first group, the experimental group, 237 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: was asked to really write about an emotionally salient experience 238 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: in their lives, and the outcome over the course of 239 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: four months of journal treatment was that asthma patients in 240 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: the experimental groups showed improved lung function, whereas the control 241 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: group patients showed no change. Rheumatoid authoritis patients had a 242 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 1: similar demonstration of improvements in overall disease activity, and here 243 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,559 Speaker 1: they write, you know, as a mean reduction disease severity 244 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:38,520 Speaker 1: of twenty eight percent, which is significant versus the control 245 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: group patients didn't have any kind of symptom change whatsoever. 246 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: So if you look at the overarching sample size, all 247 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,520 Speaker 1: the patients in the study, of those in the experimental 248 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: group experienced clinically relevant improvement based on journaling alone, whereas 249 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: only twenty four percent of the control group members experienced 250 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 1: improvement based on writing, but not in a sort of 251 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 1: emotionally significant way. When I first heard that, it blew 252 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:08,840 Speaker 1: me away. But I have to say so, I have asthma. 253 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: If you've ever listened to me huff and puff or 254 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: sound hard to understand on this very podcast, you might 255 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: already know that. Um, and I know from having asthma. 256 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 1: When I'm stressed out, my symptoms are much much worse. 257 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: I have a much much harder time when when I'm stressed. 258 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: And so if we if we buy that journaling helps 259 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: lower stress levels, it doesn't actually sound that wild to 260 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: me when I think about it in that in that way, 261 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 1: that journaling visa V would then help improve lung function. 262 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,840 Speaker 1: I just have never thought about it in that way. Yeah, 263 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: that's interesting. It's kind of like the link between cortisol, 264 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 1: the stress hormone, being prevalent in your system and journaling. 265 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: If journaling can reduce like the chemical release of cortisol 266 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: in your blood system, that has to have and I 267 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: don't know I would I'm a doctor, but I would 268 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: venture to guess that has ramifications for the rest of 269 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: your health system. So that's that's fascinating. Studies like this 270 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 1: have shown such correlations when it comes to cancer, when 271 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: it comes to a variety of mental and physical medical outcomes. 272 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,440 Speaker 1: So if you really want to dive deeper into this, 273 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: you can explore the body of clinical, peer reviewed research 274 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: that's out there, linking journaling of all things and journaling 275 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: in a very specific way about emotionally relevant experiences like 276 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: boys and bank accounts, uh, but in a way that 277 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 1: helps you draw and explore different perspectives. Another fascinating aspect 278 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: of this is bringing in gender dynamics. According to Matthew Lieberman, 279 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: a psychologist and University of California, journaling actually benefits men 280 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: more than does women. He writes, men tend to show 281 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: greater benefits and that is a bit counterintuitive, but the 282 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: reason might be that women more freely put their feelings 283 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: into words, so that this is a less novel experience 284 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: for them. For men, it's more of a novelty. It's 285 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,160 Speaker 1: almost like journaling can give men a safe space to 286 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 1: be vulnerable, to be emotional without judgment from our society, 287 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,320 Speaker 1: which still unfairly judges men and holds them up to 288 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:06,640 Speaker 1: this sort of toxic masculinity um socialization that that can 289 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: probably leave a lot of men feeling bottled up and 290 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: and not able to explore their emotions as easily. That 291 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: just seems to be like another side of the coin 292 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 1: that we opened the show talking about, where these black 293 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 1: women and women like Virginia Wolf perhaps did not feel 294 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 1: comfortable being their full selves in their published work because 295 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: of society. If you're a black woman, you have to 296 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: be this kind of woman, if you're a successful creative 297 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: writing woman, you have to be this kind of woman. 298 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: And their diaries real these services free place for them 299 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: to actually be their authentic full selves, And I wonder 300 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: if that's what's actually going on with these men as well. 301 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: That makes me feel a lot better about the kind 302 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:43,239 Speaker 1: of banal things that I've written about in my denaries 303 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: over the years. So it kind of makes me feel 304 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: better because it's not a space for any Is that 305 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: a reflection of your professional ambition or your you know, 306 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: serious work at hand. It's really for you. It's your 307 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: identity in construction. That's how I feel about it. And 308 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: I'm so thrilled that we actually have someone who is 309 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: an spurred on the way that writing and journaling can 310 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: tap into that authentic self and who we are and 311 00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: can really sort of be a gift that we give 312 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: to ourselves in terms of how we process, how we 313 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: show up in the world. And that is Rachel Wilkerson Miller, 314 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 1: the senior lifestyle editor of BuzzFeed dot com. Rachel, thank 315 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:18,600 Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today. Thank you so 316 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 1: much for having me. I'm so honored. So, Rachel, you 317 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:24,720 Speaker 1: basically have written the book on dot journaling that's not 318 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: just an expression, and you actually have a book called 319 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: Journaling a Practical Guide, which was released this July, and 320 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,359 Speaker 1: it's actually a number one Amazon bestseller in the scrap 321 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,119 Speaker 1: booking category. So congratulations, Thank you so much. So it 322 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: seems like journaling, particularly dot journaling, it's really having a 323 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,320 Speaker 1: moment right now. Why do you think that is? Um? 324 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: I think there are a couple of things happening right now. First, um, 325 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: I think in the past year so we've seen sort 326 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: of a trend toward mindfulness from people for tour, people 327 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,479 Speaker 1: thinking I need to not spend as much time on 328 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 1: my phone or watching Netflix. So I think the adult 329 00:17:57,680 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: coloring book trend was sort of the beginning of this, 330 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: and dot journaling is a very natural progression, but it's 331 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,959 Speaker 1: a little more permanent, it's a little more self guided, 332 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: it's a little more thought involved, um, which I think 333 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,119 Speaker 1: people are looking for a creative outlet and you know, 334 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: putting pen to paper is sort of a time tested 335 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:16,360 Speaker 1: thing that feels really good. Um. But I also think 336 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: that specifically right now, you know, the political climate, no 337 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: matter what your views are, is really tough. People are 338 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 1: very stressed out. We is one of the interesting things 339 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 1: that is, no matter where you fall in the political spectrum, 340 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: you're probably convinced that the world is about to end. 341 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: And I think that like there's a drive there to 342 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: record history as that happened, sort of record your own 343 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,439 Speaker 1: personnel history, or just to kind of um, you know, 344 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,320 Speaker 1: make your mark on the world, and also kind of 345 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: practice self care at the same time. So I think 346 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: that probably the general anxiety and stress right now is 347 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: definitely leading people to kind of want to reflect and 348 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. I think that is spot on, 349 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,520 Speaker 1: and I'm intrigued. As a long time journal er myself, 350 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: I have always been writing in my sort of various 351 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 1: journals over the years, but I'm curious about what makes 352 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: dot journaling specifically effective or helpful for folks. Can you 353 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 1: just explain the basics of what dot journaling is all about? Yeah, totally, 354 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,239 Speaker 1: And and one thing I will say to process this 355 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: is that it's really simple concept that is remarkably difficult 356 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: to explain. Um, So to listeners, kind of keep that 357 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 1: in mind. Um, it's it's hard to explain because it's 358 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: kind of like you can do whatever you want and 359 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: there are no rules. But so then how do you 360 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: explanage people? Um? But the basic idea is that you're 361 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: using kind of this structure or framework to guide your journal, 362 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: and it's very much you you created as you go, 363 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: like you would most journals, um, or even a planner 364 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,639 Speaker 1: or something to that effect. So there's no like you 365 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: don't sit down and build out all of these cool 366 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: layouts well in advance, very much one page at a time. 367 00:19:47,119 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: But you're using like sort of basic things like simple 368 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,280 Speaker 1: page numbers and index to make it really easy to 369 00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:57,360 Speaker 1: organize everything into one notebook. So previously, like I had 370 00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: my to do list that I kept in one notebook, 371 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: and then I have like a diary type of journal 372 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: where other things. This kind of gives you a framework 373 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: for putting both things together, um, just by using different 374 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,520 Speaker 1: symbols to like mark things down really quickly, kind of 375 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 1: categorize them at a glance. So if it has a 376 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: dot next to it, that means is that to do? 377 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: If it has a dash next to it, that means 378 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: it's a thought. So like you look at a page 379 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:21,199 Speaker 1: from like today, for me, I just have like all 380 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: of my two does at the top. Later I'll put 381 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: in my diary entries using the dash and like that signals. 382 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:28,920 Speaker 1: Like these are two different things, but they all kind 383 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: of taken together make up this thought journal. Um. Also 384 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,360 Speaker 1: people are doing the dot grid style of notebook has 385 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: really caught on in the past couple of years, um, 386 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 1: and it makes it really easy to create all of 387 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: these different like very artistic spreads and layouts and calendar 388 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: within a notebook that you probably couldn't do. And as 389 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: easily in aligned journal or a blank journal. Um. So, yeah, 390 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: that's kind of the basics. I don't know if that 391 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: makes sense. Yeah, that makes so much sense. So you've 392 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 1: mentioned a couple of the reasons why someone might choose 393 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,640 Speaker 1: dot journaling over regular journaling. Is is there are there 394 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:04,560 Speaker 1: more specific things why dot journaling might be more effective 395 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,080 Speaker 1: or a different kind of experience than just writing an 396 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,240 Speaker 1: aligned notebook. Yeah, I think so. And I too have 397 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: been like a lifelong journal or and then I kind 398 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: of fell out of the habit when I got into 399 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 1: my twenties and it was, you know, with the advent 400 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: of blogs on the internet and texting my friends all day, 401 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: I kind of like ran out of theme to write 402 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: in a diary. Um, but this really helps me do it, 403 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:24,880 Speaker 1: And I think there are a couple of reasons it's 404 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: really caught on and it makes you more helpful. Um. First, 405 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: the like using the dash to take to jot down 406 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: diary entries is remarkably liberating. Like, I think there's something 407 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: about approaching a blank page where you're like, I have 408 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 1: to write a diary entry that feels very like serious 409 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 1: and sort of official in a way that like just 410 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:45,160 Speaker 1: writing quick notes is really easy and there's like less pressure, 411 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: So I found that really helpful. Um. And then by 412 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: adding page numbers to everything, and then like putting this 413 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,199 Speaker 1: index to the beginning or the end, where essentially you 414 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: can kind of write the page numbers of all of 415 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: the important things, so like September habits, I can tell 416 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,200 Speaker 1: you a page back on what page, like my reading 417 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: list for seventeen is on. It makes the diary or 418 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:08,359 Speaker 1: the journal essentially searchable, so it's more functional than a 419 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,320 Speaker 1: regular diary or to do list because it's like organized 420 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:12,880 Speaker 1: in this way that makes it really easy to find 421 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: anything you care about. In fact, one of the most 422 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: interesting things I found when I was researching my book 423 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: is that a lot of diaries throughout history look remarkably 424 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 1: like dot journals, which I just made me really happy. Um. 425 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 1: So I was looking at a journal Mary Holyoke's diary 426 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: from the seventeenth century, and she uses a dash before 427 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,359 Speaker 1: like all of her entry and then really short and 428 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,520 Speaker 1: to the point, and she tracks really sort of dramatic 429 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:41,960 Speaker 1: life events this way. She lost several children in childbirth 430 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: or they died as infants, and about it's really terrible, 431 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: and she just logs it the same way that she 432 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 1: logs a visit from a friend, um, which is sort 433 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 1: of shocking. I think now that we can give journals 434 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: in this place for like intense self reflection, which is 435 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: something that happened in the twentieth century. Um, But we're 436 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: kind of going back to basics here, where just blogging 437 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: these things kind of quick. All events are given equal 438 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: weight if you want them to be given equal weight. 439 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 1: I had this idea in my head that like a 440 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: diary is this very serious place where I write like 441 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 1: very serious books. And I felt a little weird, like 442 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: blogging major life events the same way that I would 443 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: log like maybe get milk one to the store today. 444 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: And then I realized, like, you know, all of those 445 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: things like makeup, who I Am in the or seventeen, 446 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: like that gives us the complete picture of who we are. 447 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: And as a matter of fact, like this is actually 448 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 1: how people have been using their diaries for centuries. So 449 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: it's very much a return to form in a lot 450 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 1: of ways. I find what is so fascinating about the 451 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 1: rise of journaling recently is that it really does feel 452 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: like a response to our hyper digital age. This is 453 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 1: one of the most analog solutions to our overwhelmed that 454 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: comes with the digital age. Do you feel liberated by 455 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: having a sort of more analog component to your life 456 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,200 Speaker 1: or do you I'm curious, like, do you use Google Calendar? 457 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: You know what I mean, because I have gone all 458 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 1: in on the digital front and I've really left my 459 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:13,399 Speaker 1: journaling behind, and um, yeah, so I still use Google 460 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: Calendar because I need it for work, and so that 461 00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: just makes perfect sense to me that, like I'm going 462 00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: to continue to use that. My meeting changed so much 463 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to write them down and pen whenever. 464 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: Um but I've never found a to do list app 465 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 1: that like does everything that I wanted to do and 466 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,240 Speaker 1: doesn't get essentially like discontinued after two years. So I've 467 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,200 Speaker 1: always loved a pen and paper to do list. I've 468 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: never been satisfied using any other system. So, like, I 469 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:40,680 Speaker 1: think for me, it's very much a return to basics 470 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,080 Speaker 1: personally to that kind of thing, but also think more generally, 471 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: like it's a society, it's very much a return to basics, 472 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,719 Speaker 1: like for atning things down, like taking notes. It's been 473 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: around for a while. Um see, I think that like 474 00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:56,160 Speaker 1: you can bind you, I really like having the pen 475 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,879 Speaker 1: and paper option especially I think at the beginning of 476 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: the day and the end of the day, like this 477 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:02,520 Speaker 1: is how I start my day and end my day 478 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: with pen and paper, not with my phone. And I 479 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: think that's really valuable, and I think a lot of 480 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: people are kind of feeling that if they want, even 481 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: if it's like fifteen or twenty minutes, just some time 482 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,679 Speaker 1: that they're not looking at the screen. We'll be right 483 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 1: back with more from Rachel after this quick break and 484 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: we're back, but let's jump right back into our conversation 485 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: with Rachel. I don't know if you had a chance 486 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: to look at some of the research that we compiled, 487 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 1: but I definitely think that one of the positive benefits 488 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: of journaling every day is a little bit of a 489 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,840 Speaker 1: meditation and getting away from screens and things like that. Um, 490 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: are there other benefits that you see from journaling? Maybe 491 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,480 Speaker 1: personal benefits, professional benefits, creative benefits, what kind of other 492 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 1: in addition to just getting away from your screen for 493 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: fifteen minutes? God knows, it's so hard, But what other 494 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: kind of benefits have you seen folks have from journaling? 495 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: So I think using this system has definitely helped me 496 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,560 Speaker 1: become more organized. I'm a generally pretty organized person. But like, again, 497 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: the searchable factor is so major that like I can 498 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: really track like my conversations with my boss and we 499 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: have our check in every week, Like I'm I'm better 500 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: at like following up on the things we discussed or 501 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: recording them because I have a better framework for it. 502 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: So I really love that aspect of it. Um It's 503 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 1: also helped me creatively. It's sort of taking me a 504 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: few steps, but basically after I really got into dot journaling, 505 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: then I started doing morning pages, which are outlined in 506 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: the book The Artist's Way, which is a whole sort 507 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: of different type of journaling, but for me was an 508 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 1: extension of this other thing I would and that has 509 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: been like a really incredible creative shift for me. And now, 510 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:39,479 Speaker 1: in an effort to be on my phone lass, I'm 511 00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 1: journaling like multiple times throughout the day. So my new 512 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: thing lately has been doing journaling pages with the end 513 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: of the day. So I was in a really bad 514 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,359 Speaker 1: habit where I would get home from work, start looking 515 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: through Twitter, catching up on blogs, go to Reddit, and 516 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: like an hour and a half and go by and 517 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: I had to come from the couch. So my new 518 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:58,320 Speaker 1: thing is when I get home immediately, I sit down 519 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,160 Speaker 1: and just stream of conscious this journals for like twenty 520 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 1: or thirty minutes, and it has been a complete game changer. 521 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 1: Part of it is because when I'm walking home, I 522 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 1: usually get a ton of creative ideas and I'm like 523 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 1: really stimulated when I get home. But it's also helps 524 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 1: me sort of retrain my brain and break that habit 525 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: of like getting home and just scrolling through my phone 526 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: for hours. So it's actually I've been able to like 527 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,080 Speaker 1: right a ton that way to capture the things that 528 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,160 Speaker 1: I was leading on my way home or the podcast 529 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 1: I listen to when my walk home. It's just been 530 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 1: like such a wonderful ritual to build into my everyday routine. 531 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 1: So I feel like that's another really great way to 532 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 1: use a journal. You are giving me all of the 533 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: goals around creative work, because obviously, Bridget and I it's 534 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:40,200 Speaker 1: our job to come up with topics for a podcast, 535 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: and I do a boatload of writing, which I know 536 00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: you do as well, Bridget, outside of producing two podcasts 537 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: a week, Honestly, finding a way to optimize your creative 538 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: energy not only to write the things you want to 539 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: write about, but also to come up with and be 540 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: inspired when it comes to what you want to explore next. 541 00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 1: It's a challenge, um completely, especially to harness your own 542 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 1: creative energy and figure out what works for you. Like 543 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 1: I was saying, we've gone totally digital, and now I'm wondering, 544 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: should we incorporate more pen to paper into our workflow? 545 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,439 Speaker 1: Do you feel like as a creative writer, and maybe 546 00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: for other creative entrepreneurs listening, that mixing up your pen 547 00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 1: to paper sort of more analog methodologies with the digital 548 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,040 Speaker 1: ways that many of us work now is important. Yeah, 549 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: I mean I found it to be so helpful. So basically, 550 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,440 Speaker 1: when I started like trying to journal more, I was 551 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 1: running out of ideas and that was what led me 552 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 1: to start writing out Essentially, you know it's for future 553 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,560 Speaker 1: essays in a journal, and there's something for me. Like 554 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: I know that there's sort of the mythology around like 555 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 1: a blank page being really stressful, but I kind of 556 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,360 Speaker 1: a blank journal page are less stressful than a blank 557 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: Google doc. Like for some reason, I have this sense 558 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: of like this is just for me. I don't need 559 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: to show it to anyone else, Like I can write 560 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: whatever I want here and it feels like so much 561 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: less pressure. So I've been doing that occasionally, and then 562 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 1: like when I go back, I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna 563 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 1: write yesterday. Now I'm going to type it into a 564 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: Google Dog. I'll go back and it's like, oh my gosh, 565 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,960 Speaker 1: I wrote three pages. The bulk of it is done, 566 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: and I didn't even sort of realize that. I didn't 567 00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: even feel it. I want to do that. We need now, 568 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: I really recommend it. I can't help but lift up 569 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: a lot of the things that you're saying for me, 570 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: um as a you know, a creative professional, like all 571 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: of us are in this conversation. Um, I am someone 572 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 1: who is me. I know that, well all this put 573 00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: it this way. Rachel from being in your home, I 574 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: know you're a very organized person. Emily is also very organized. 575 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: There there are also those of us who are creative 576 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: professionals who are not Type A, perhaps for type B, 577 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: Type C, type D sort of fly by the seat 578 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:45,120 Speaker 1: of our pants creative type. And I think listening to 579 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 1: what you're saying that the one of the benefits of 580 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: creative journaling is that it helps you follow up on 581 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: those bursts of creative energy. Right, Like, I am someone 582 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: who I just get an idea and I'm like, oh, 583 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: this is my idea, and then if I don't write 584 00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,800 Speaker 1: it down, it's gone in my head and it's just 585 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,040 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's just gone. Um. So I love 586 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: this idea of journaling as an intentional way of focusing 587 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: that sort of manic creative energy so that you can 588 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,880 Speaker 1: actually capitalize on it and do something with it other 589 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: than just forget about it in the shower the next day. Exactly. Yeah. 590 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 1: So I guess my question is for those of us 591 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: who are not super organized like myself, Um, what are 592 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: the suggestions that you have for really making this habit 593 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: work for us? So, I think the best advice I 594 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,400 Speaker 1: can give you is start small, don't go overboard. I 595 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: think you could be really tempting when you're looking at 596 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: like all of these cool things that you can do, 597 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: to want to do all of them at once, which 598 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: is fun for like a week, and then you like, 599 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: you know, something changes in your routine and you're thrown 600 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: off and you just keep up starily or you get 601 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 1: really overwhelmed because you can't keep up with it. Um. 602 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: So I really recommend like first, I think when you 603 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: approach any new habits, especially this one, I think, really 604 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 1: think about what you want to get out of it 605 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: and what your purposes, so you have like the thing 606 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: is to keep you motivated to stick with it, and 607 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: then like set your goal around what your life actually is, 608 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: not the person you want to be, Like if you're 609 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: if you know you're not going to write for an 610 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,120 Speaker 1: hour every day, like, don't make that the goal. Makes 611 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: your goal writing for fifteen minutes every day. I think 612 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: that's a good place to start. Um. And then you 613 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: know everything you do, everything you add, whether it's beautiful 614 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: highlighters and markers or washy tape for like cool spreads 615 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: should be to serve the journal and to serve you, 616 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: and like you shouldn't feel like you are beholden to it. Um. 617 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: So for me, it meant you. I gave myself a 618 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,000 Speaker 1: rule that you can only start with like one pen, 619 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 1: no fancy spreads. You have to do this for a 620 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: month first to see if you actually like it, to 621 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: kind of commit to it. Once it's actually a habit 622 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,479 Speaker 1: and you've built it into your day, then you can 623 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: go crazy. So that really helped me UM and I 624 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 1: definitely recommend it to people who tend to get like 625 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 1: get super excited about stuff and then like kind of 626 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: loose steam. Um so if that feels like you, I 627 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: think that would be a good recommendation that does feel 628 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,960 Speaker 1: like I also just love what you have to say, Rachel, 629 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,360 Speaker 1: and your recent post for BuzzFeed titled being organized is 630 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: a gift I give myself and other people that really 631 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: busts apart this mythology of someone is born organized in 632 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: type A or not. Can you tell me more about 633 00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: about what your philosophy is on that front. Yeah, I realized, 634 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: you know, people, like a lot of people think I'm 635 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: very organized, and I think there's this idea, especially with 636 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: women on the internet, that like, oh, she's so effortlessly organized, 637 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: like good for her. I could never do that, And 638 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm actually not effortlessly organized. Like this is work, 639 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 1: Like it's a choice that I make and it's gotten 640 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: easier now that I've been doing it for longer, but 641 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: like I had to shift my mindset and not expect 642 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 1: that it should come easily, but to kind of see 643 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: so that there's real like labor here, there's emotional labor, 644 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 1: there's there's time involved in a mental shift that I 645 00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: had to make to decide I want to be an 646 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: organized person because it makes me feel better, it makes 647 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: the people who depend on me feel better. Like that's 648 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: not effortless, and that's what is so great about it, 649 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 1: Like taking a choice to do this thing, Rachel, that 650 00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,840 Speaker 1: that choice comes with boundaries you've set so that you 651 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: can protect your own time and give yourself the time 652 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,000 Speaker 1: and care that it takes to be taking care of 653 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: yourself in that way, because that's exactly how I feel it. 654 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: It's like, it definitely takes work to be organized, and 655 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: sometimes it means saying no to other people and protect 656 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: your ability to be organized. Part of it. What's funny, 657 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: Rachel is I saw you post that article on BuzzFeed 658 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: and I came very close to tagging Emily my number 659 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: one organized friend in the post. No, I mean my 660 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: whole I hear so much of myself and what you're saying. 661 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: I have this fantasy that one day I will wake 662 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: up and just my DNA will be different, right, I'll 663 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: be organized and together, and my apartment will be spotless 664 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,480 Speaker 1: all the time and perfect hair, and my life will 665 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: be so great and I'll never spill whatever white and 666 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. Like one day I'll wake up 667 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: and all these things I've always wanted to be different 668 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,120 Speaker 1: will be different. But I love what you're saying is 669 00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: that it's not about being born or guys are not 670 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: being organized. It's about choices, and it's about knowing yourself 671 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: and knowing, Hey, if I want to have this kind 672 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: of outcome, I know I'll never do I'll never be 673 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: the kind of person who does X, y Z. So 674 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: how can I make doing that work for me and 675 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: who I actually am? It's sort of it's sort of 676 00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: a weird kind of self acceptance almost, and I think 677 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: there's something really empowering about realizing that you actually have 678 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: control over this situation, because I think it's very easy 679 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: to think like, oh, I'm just a complete mess, like 680 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,400 Speaker 1: I'll never be able to shop up on time, Like 681 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: this is just who I am. I'm always late, and 682 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: it's like what if you we're on time? Though, Like 683 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: what if? What if? That? I feel I gotta say, 684 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: I feel personally attacked right now. I felt an intervention. 685 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,000 Speaker 1: We all care about your bridge, we just want you 686 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,920 Speaker 1: to be on time. I have no experience with you 687 00:34:52,000 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: being late, so I didn't realize that, Like I'm not 688 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 1: even sure that's true, I think she just talks publicly 689 00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: about being late on more often than she's actually like. 690 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: But it is funny to have two type a's on 691 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 1: the line, because it's usually Be and I playing off 692 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: each other's difference. I don't even think of myself as 693 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: type he like I probably would call myself like T 694 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: B minus like I don't. I don't know, because I 695 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: don't feel like super stressed about it, Like I feel 696 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 1: like I'm pretty chill in general. Um So I don't know. 697 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 1: I think I have anything like I feel No, just kidding, no, 698 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: I think you're totally spot on that it's not that simple, right. 699 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:30,360 Speaker 1: It's about effort. It definitely takes effort, but the beauty 700 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: is a little bit of effort to make the rest 701 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: of your life feel effortless. It really like it will 702 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: come back to you ten told I think that is 703 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:39,800 Speaker 1: one of the most important things to think about. That, 704 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,440 Speaker 1: like making these smaller decisions, it's a little bit of 705 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,719 Speaker 1: an investment upfront, whether that's of time, whether it's a 706 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: mental energy. I talked about this to me atay, but like, 707 00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,200 Speaker 1: I don't want to spend you know, forty five minutes 708 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: trying to like find my prescription for my glasses and 709 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:54,600 Speaker 1: then like calling my like finding the time to call 710 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 1: my eye doctor, and then like going to my eye 711 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: doctor and picking up the prescription. It's like when I 712 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: had the time so that I finally ordered new glasses, 713 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,239 Speaker 1: Like that's so much work. That's such a waste of time. 714 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: Like if I just know where my glasses prescription is, 715 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: I don't have to do that. So like if I 716 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 1: take the twenty minutes up front to decide where I'm 717 00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: going to put my glasses prescription and I put it there, 718 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: I save so much time in the long run, and 719 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,719 Speaker 1: so much like stress and embarrassment and anxiety in the 720 00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: long run. So it's very much just the like shift 721 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: of like okay, you know it's a it's as a 722 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,120 Speaker 1: late gratification thing. I think, Um, once you do it 723 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: a few times, it's like, okay, hey wait, this actually 724 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: feels really nice, and it's like very much motivation to 725 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: keep doing it. Rachel, you really hit it on the head. 726 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 1: I think this idea that journaling being organized, figuring out 727 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: ways of documenting how we're showing up who we are. Um, 728 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:42,200 Speaker 1: all of these can be sort of gifts that we 729 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 1: give ourselves in a form of self care. Thank you 730 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: so much. I'm I'm so thrilled at in awe of 731 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 1: here and you say this and my journey of being 732 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: an organized together person? Is it to start tomorrow? Yeah? 733 00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 1: I hope it starts. I truly feel like having a 734 00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,000 Speaker 1: to do list really makes everything feel under control. So 735 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 1: start there, start with the list, it really helps. I 736 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: love it, Rachel. Where can folks find out more about 737 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: your book and you're writing and all the cool things 738 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: you're up to these days. The best place to find 739 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: me is my blog. It's th h e r e 740 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,320 Speaker 1: w m dot com, the room r e w m 741 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,719 Speaker 1: um and then that has linked to everything else. But 742 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,320 Speaker 1: if you're on Twitter, you can find me at the 743 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,680 Speaker 1: underscore room of that is also the same on Instagram, 744 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: So so this is the best place to start. Their 745 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: links my book there and kind of go from there. 746 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 1: I love it. Rachel. Thank you so much for being 747 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:34,960 Speaker 1: with us today. You learned so much about the way 748 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 1: that journaling can really help us live our lives and 749 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,880 Speaker 1: maybe make us more aspirational versions of ourselves if you're me, 750 00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 1: maybe or make us more creative versions of I saw 751 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: that I am a journal geek myself, so I want 752 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: to hear from you, sminthy listeners. How has journaling played 753 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:54,200 Speaker 1: a role in your life? Is this something that you've 754 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,560 Speaker 1: had as a practice for a long time? Is it 755 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: something you wish you could do more of but it's 756 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 1: never been a have it that's really stuck? What do 757 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: you get out of journaling if you are a journal er? 758 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:06,200 Speaker 1: And do you think of yourself as a writer, because 759 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,320 Speaker 1: it took me twenty five years to see myself not 760 00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:11,560 Speaker 1: only as a journaler, but as a writer who has 761 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: something to say too? Or are you like me who 762 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,640 Speaker 1: has been sort of a scattered creative type who is 763 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 1: kind of dipped in and out of the journaling vibe 764 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 1: a little bit and likes to think of yourself as 765 00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:25,440 Speaker 1: a journalier but can't quite get there on a regular basis. 766 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: How are you holding up? I want to see, like 767 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: what a journal of yours looks like. Oh, it's it's 768 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,720 Speaker 1: it's chaos. It's it's chaos. I just think it's interesting 769 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 1: that you say creative type there too. Yeah, I mean 770 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,279 Speaker 1: I think I think I think of myself as someone 771 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:47,200 Speaker 1: who is just a thinker and a creator, and I'm 772 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,240 Speaker 1: most happy when I'm creating things and sort of a chaotic, 773 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,680 Speaker 1: scattered way. And so even though I know that you 774 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: are also a creative type, you're organized about it. And 775 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: so for me, creativity looks like scattered, looks like papers 776 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 1: on the floor. But I know what they all mean. 777 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:02,480 Speaker 1: It looks like posted that if anyone else saw, they 778 00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: would say, are you okay? But I get what they're saying. Well, 779 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 1: I think there's another episode to explore there at some 780 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,439 Speaker 1: point in the near future. I like it awesome. Well, 781 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,000 Speaker 1: thank you so much for listening. As always, we want 782 00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: to continue this conversation with you. Hit us up on 783 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 1: Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast, find us on Instagram at 784 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,120 Speaker 1: stuff I've Never told you, and we love getting your emails, 785 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,880 Speaker 1: so send them our way at mom Stuff at how 786 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:26,040 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com.