1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, you're walking to stuff to go 3 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: in your mind. My name is Robert Lamp. I'm Julie Douglass. Julie, 4 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: have you engaged in a good staring contest? Reson? I'm 5 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: trying to do it with you right now. Don't blink. 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: I didn't. Don't kind of like narrow my eyes. Maybe 7 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: I used see the things you never know when you 8 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: go sometimes, I guess, so, yeah, but yeah, this is 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: something that I used to engage in with my brother 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: all the time. Yeah, did you Did you tend to win? 11 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,480 Speaker 1: Or is it a stalemate? Did you just both stare 12 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: at each other un till your eyeballs dried up? And 13 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: he's pretty competitive, so I probably just got tired of 14 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,519 Speaker 1: it after a while and blinked just to end it. 15 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: Staring is weird. It is a strange thing. I feel 16 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: like we've touched this before. But like, the more you 17 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: stare at somebody, the weirder it becomes, the weirder their 18 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: face becomes, and they start looking like just alien monster creatures, 19 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: you know, just because you you begin to to take 20 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: sort of the default version of what they look like, 21 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: and and and deconstruct it. Well, remember when we were 22 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: looking at the Bloody Mary studies about staring into the 23 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: mirror and if you stare hard enough and long enough, 24 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 1: your brain starts to freak out. And because it's just 25 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: staring at that one bit and starting to sort of say, Okay, 26 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna start throwing all sorts of weird images in here. 27 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: So hopefully you're not sitting in front of someone and 28 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: staring at them so intently that that's happening. But you're right, 29 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: it does kind of cause you to to sort of 30 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: reconfigure everything. Yeah. Now, I will say in in these 31 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: podcast recording sessions, I tend to make more eye contact 32 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: with you than I make with most people because we 33 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 1: are directly across from each other, and if I'm not 34 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: looking at the my notes are staring off into the 35 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: whole distance. Uh, then I'm having to engage with you 36 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: because this is kind of a conversation performance that we 37 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: do here. It's true, and you know, we're taking visual 38 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: cues off of each other too, like hey, wrap it up, 39 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: or hey, yeah that's really interesting. More and more so, Yeah, 40 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: steering obviously is something that we do as humans for 41 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: a variety of reasons, and yet it's a bit of 42 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 1: a mystery, right Yeah. And then there's there're whole these 43 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: whole elements too of uh you know, personal space and 44 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: the cheesemo. Um. A friend of mine was sent me 45 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: some sort of Facebook correspondence because he is friends with 46 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,639 Speaker 1: all the people who went to high school with UM, 47 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: follows them on Facebook. So they'll inevitably say just weird 48 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 1: and stupid things or things that just don't really sink 49 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: with your own personal worldview, including like one dude who 50 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 1: lifts a lot and maybe doesn't do a lot of lifts, 51 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 1: lifts weights, lifts, you know, hits the gym and then 52 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: he starts off on this whole diet tribe that that 53 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 1: kind of breaks the world down into into those who 54 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 1: lift and those that don't, or those that lift a 55 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: lot and those that don't lift as much. And and 56 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 1: it was about like making eye contact with individuals on 57 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: the train or on the street, and how every and 58 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: and implying that every incident of this with men making 59 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: eye tak contact with each that it is a stare 60 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: down to see who is the alpha a k who 61 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: lives the most. Okay, well, that's very interesting for two reasons. 62 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: One is, and this is auncdotal, of course, but when 63 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: I've been at gym's before, I have noticed that people 64 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 1: who are lifting are always staring at themselves, like really, 65 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: like you noticed this, and they don't break in the mirror. 66 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: In the mirror, they're like staring almost like the person 67 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:26,799 Speaker 1: in the mirror is the aggressor. Okay. So the second 68 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: thing about that, like they're like they're in an ape 69 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: that doesn't realize that the ape in the in the 70 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 1: mirror is their own reflections, right, that keeps staring at me? 71 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: Can't they see me with all my weight? But I 72 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: have noticed that over and over again. And David Turberg 73 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 1: at all of the University of Utrecht in the Netherlands, 74 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: and uh in some other researchers, they wanted to see 75 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: if this is really true that we stare for dominance, 76 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: that this is really automatic for humans. So they devised 77 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 1: a test in which participants were presented different colored ovals 78 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:05,360 Speaker 1: and different colored dots. Seems pretty straightforward, right, What they 79 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,320 Speaker 1: were advised to do is to try to popping up 80 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: on the screen in front of you. Yeah, those those 81 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 1: ovals are popping up on the screen. They're the same 82 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 1: color as the dots, and they're saying, hey, just visually 83 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: matched that oval to the dot when it comes up. 84 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,840 Speaker 1: But they're sneaky the researchers, because a split second before 85 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: the oval appears, a face of the same color appeared 86 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: with either angry, happy, or neutral expression. Okay, So what 87 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: they were doing is they were testing to see how 88 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: long it took for people to look away from faces 89 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: with different emotions, and they compared this data with a 90 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 1: questionnaire that the participants completed that measured how dominant they 91 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,359 Speaker 1: were in social situations. So if you had some of 92 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: the weightlifters here, no doubt they would rate, you know, 93 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: pretty high on social dominance. So the results were that 94 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: people who are more motivated to be dominant were slower 95 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: to look away from angry faces, and then people who 96 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: were motivated to seek rewar gazed at the happy faces longer. So, 97 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: in other words, the assumptions were right here is that 98 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: there is a bit of face or eyes staring in 99 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: terms of dominance and trying to say this is this 100 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: is a space that I'm occupying and I'm dominating right now. 101 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: It's weird because on one level I totally buy that, 102 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: but on the other It's like I think about, like 103 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: being on the train and if someone is like staring 104 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: at me with crazy eyes, I'm going to look away 105 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 1: because it just doesn't make like why would I. Why 106 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: would I engage that person? Like? Why would I? It's like, 107 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: all right, you're an alpha. It's great that you know 108 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: you're covering your own vomit. But your alpha, So I'm 109 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: gonna let you. But that's the extreme extreme, right, that's 110 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: the crazy eyes. What if someone is just like, what 111 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: if there's another you, Robert who just happens to be 112 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: across from you staring at you? Well, I I would 113 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: not stare back. Probably. I mean, do I know this 114 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: other me? Or do I say, oh, that's me, that's 115 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: my topplicating You don't know you. I don't me. You're 116 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:06,840 Speaker 1: a stranger, okay, just another person of my general making model. Yes, 117 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: well no, I wouldn't want to really make eye contact 118 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: with him. Why would I do that? Okay, So I 119 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: can't believe I'm admitting this. But there's a seven year 120 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: old in my neighborhood. He was kind of a toughie, 121 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,839 Speaker 1: and he's always kind of saying like awful things to people. 122 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: And I mean he's seven, right, so you don't take 123 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: him that seriously. But I have to say that I 124 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,400 Speaker 1: was backing out of my driveway not too long ago. 125 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 1: Then he was. He was like trash talking, and I 126 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: knew he was trashing for backing out of your driveway. 127 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: I don't know this kid, I'm telling you anyway, So 128 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,159 Speaker 1: I backed at the car and then you know, I 129 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 1: was parallel with him. He's on his bike, and I 130 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 1: sat there and I stared. I did the stair thing, 131 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: and I didn't even know at the time that that 132 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: was what I was doing. But I wasn't going to 133 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: roll down the window. So young man, don't trash talk, right, 134 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: But you know, I just sat there and gave him 135 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: the what I now understand was the dominant stare huh. 136 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: And we sat there and it was finally him who 137 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 1: broke it. But that was my way of saying, step off, kid, 138 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,160 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to get to work. See now, I 139 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 1: find that if i'm if I'm at the train and 140 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: there's somebody like that, not a seven year old kid 141 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: that's threatening me. Yeah. And by the way, I know 142 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: how lame it is to do a stare off with 143 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: a seven year old. I get it. But now you 144 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: had to put your foot down. I think you did 145 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 1: the right thing here. But but I find that there's 146 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: someone that's being a little starry or being a little 147 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: kind of like, you know, tough guy in the train. 148 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: Like my gut instinct, if I'm thinking about it, if 149 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: I'm engaging in it and letting my ego engage in 150 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,240 Speaker 1: in this kind of thing, which is probably a bad 151 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: idea to begin with, my response will be to not 152 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: acknowledge them at all, to sort of like stare straight 153 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: past them or through them. Um so is it so? 154 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: In my own mind, I'm thinking, I'm not engaging with you, 155 00:07:50,720 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: so you can't possibly be the alpha in this situation 156 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 1: because I can't even see you. You're so non alpha. 157 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: I like that. I like that. It's like, there's nound 158 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: really stupid. When I actually take it out into language, 159 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: it makes sense. I mean, it's all pretty stupid because 160 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,679 Speaker 1: it's like the idea of like dudes on a train 161 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: having to establish a hierarchy of who's tough and who isn't, 162 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: and who lifts and who lifts more. I mean, it's 163 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: it's utterly ridiculous, and and I want and I my 164 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 1: instinct is to just throw it all out and say 165 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: that it's all just a bunch of molarchy. But I 166 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: do have to acknowledge there's these social dynamics exist. They do, 167 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: and staring is a really big way to try to 168 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,760 Speaker 1: ferret out the emotional states of others anyway, right, because 169 00:08:30,760 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: if you were on the train you saw crazy eyes, 170 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: you have readed your days because you knew that was 171 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: no good. You're not gonna lock eyes. That's not good 172 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: news for you. They're going to think I want to 173 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: talk exactly, and you don't want to talk um. In 174 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: the article why we stare even when we don't want 175 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: to buy Dan Muslaf writing for Wired, she says that 176 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: humans are highly social animals, and rather than remaining among 177 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: our family or heard from birth to death, we venture 178 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:55,560 Speaker 1: out and we have to do this in a safe way. 179 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: So we have evolved a rough screening process with this stare. 180 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: And she says that you know you're sweeping. Stare is 181 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: giving you all sorts of data that gets processed in 182 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: your magdala. Now, this is the area of the burning 183 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 1: that is associated with emotions and judgment, and so that's 184 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 1: how you deem if a person is safe or if 185 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: they're dodgy, and you've got that split second reassembly of 186 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: their face. By the way, while you're doing this um 187 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 1: in your mind's eye, and when you're reassembling that person's face, 188 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: you're looking for things like does this person look familiar 189 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 1: to me? Does this person have an emotion of sadness, happiness? Anger? Yeah? 190 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 1: Do they do? They look like they're a part of 191 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: my group? They look like that they are merely out 192 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: in my group now because they're lost. Do they look 193 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: like they have some sort of malicious intent? And yeah, 194 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: we do all of this without even really thinking about it. Uh. 195 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: In fact, we we often do this kind of thing 196 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: and then feel bad about it. You know. If you'll 197 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 1: you'll be like, how, who's that shady guy walking down 198 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: my street? And then a part of you like, no, no, uh, 199 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 1: he probably has a legitimate reason to be here. He 200 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: might be a missionary or a salesman. Don't jump to conclusions. 201 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:03,560 Speaker 1: But they're still that part of your brain that instantly 202 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: passes judgment, right, And in the article, it's that that 203 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: whole part of like why we stay even we don't 204 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: want to. We're doing this too again, as you say, 205 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: like fare it out, like is this person here for 206 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: harm or good or what's going on us? Or are Yeah, 207 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: and and they were saying in the article, or Dan 208 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,959 Speaker 1: Muslaf was saying that if the person deviates greatly from 209 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: the norm, for for instance, if the person had a 210 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: face transplant, right, that's probably about as much as you 211 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: can debat it from the norm. Then then your stare 212 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: really gets locked down because now your brain is again 213 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: reassembling the face, trying to make sense of it and 214 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: knowing that it doesn't make sense, so it's trying to 215 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 1: fill in those gaps, and you're going to stay a 216 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 1: longer and longer and longer. Yeah, it's I mean, when 217 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,360 Speaker 1: you encounter any level of disfigurement or even just like 218 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: mild not even disfigure but even like mild a symmetry, 219 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,560 Speaker 1: well not even not mild a symmetry, but say, um, 220 00:10:57,679 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: a symmetry that you haven't seen before, because you certainly 221 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: easily get used to a symmetry in any individual's face 222 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: or like like one eyes looking off a little bit 223 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: to the side, but the first time you encounter it 224 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: can be a little a little off putting. But if 225 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: it's something severe, if you get into that weird space, again, 226 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: where every instinct in your body is to look and 227 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: analyze and forget what's going on. But then you feel 228 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:20,199 Speaker 1: just increasingly bad about doing it because we've all been 229 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: told from an early age, because in an early age, 230 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: we don't know, and that that's when we do things 231 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: like stare at a diminutively sized individual in a grocery 232 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: store and point at them and ask our mother what 233 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 1: they are. My sister did that. Um, that's when we 234 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,599 Speaker 1: we don't really understand the social constraints we have to 235 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: work with, and we're told above all else, do not 236 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: point at people who are different, do not stare at 237 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: people who are different. Uh, But we have that strong 238 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 1: instinct to do so. Right. Largely humans are not meaning jerks. 239 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 1: They're just trying to figure out the discrepancies. Yeah. Like 240 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: I was in a nursing home once visiting my grandmother 241 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: and there was an individual there that and I was 242 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: again I didn't want to stare, So I don't even 243 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: really have a clear version of their vision of what 244 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:02,959 Speaker 1: this person looked like in my mind because I didn't 245 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: go back for more details because it felt wrong. But 246 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 1: I remember their face was like just a black hole. 247 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 1: And I'm not even sure how that worked kind of 248 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: physical level, but it it was that it was it 249 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 1: was weird because there was the pole to stare and 250 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: it was a very strong poll uh that that I 251 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: just had to really push it down with all the 252 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: social rules that were in place, and you do you 253 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,199 Speaker 1: have to tell your brain to shut that off, right, um. 254 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: And this is something we do all the time, right, 255 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: because we don't want to make others feel uncomfortable with 256 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,720 Speaker 1: our stairs. Yeah. Well, another aspect of the whole others 257 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: in us safe and risk all. You know, disease factors 258 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: into that as well. Does this person look like they 259 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: are healthy? And if they are not healthy, then how 260 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: does that factor into my acceptance of their um, their 261 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: their presence within the boundaries of my group? Right, there's 262 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: your amygdala at work trying to make all right. So 263 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back, 264 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: we will get into uh, not only the idea of 265 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: us staring at other people, but the thing that individuals 266 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: are staring at us. All right, we are back in 267 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb. Have you ever had the sense that someone 268 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: was staring at you? He turned around and and lo 269 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: and behold, that person was staring at you. I do 270 00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: get the feeling that people are staring at me sometimes, 271 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: but again, since I tend to be more passive, my 272 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 1: reaction is to not engage them and to continue looking 273 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: at my book or out the window or if I 274 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: but but if I can, then I might try to 275 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 1: check a reflection to see if I'm being stared at 276 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 1: to confirm okay. But then there are alway those those 277 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: moments too. What do you look up from whatever you're 278 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: doing and someone's eyes dart away from you, and then 279 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 1: instantly you you think, oh, they were staring at me. Yeah, 280 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:51,439 Speaker 1: And I have to say I've felt that way before, 281 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: or like you felt like someone was staring at you 282 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 1: happened and behold they were. And this is called the 283 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: psychic staring effect. It's that idea that you can really 284 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: sense this, that this might be, you know, another one 285 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:06,439 Speaker 1: of our senses that we have um or the converse 286 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: of this is that you yourself could stare so intensely 287 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: at someone else that you could cause them to turn 288 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: around and look at you, like a cartoon effect for 289 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,760 Speaker 1: the eyeballs, like come out of the head um and 290 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 1: elongate and actually hit something that they're looking at. Yes, yeah, yeah, 291 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: and it happens all the time, right yeah. Yeah. Um. Now, 292 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: according to skeptic Um, the first scientific studies of what 293 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: is called PSC were reported in by British psychologist Edward B. Titchener. 294 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: He was interested to know if this was a thing, 295 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: because it feels real when when you're experiencing it, it 296 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: feels like you're actually sensing someone stairs. Yeah. But now, 297 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: all of the studies he did, they were all negative. So, um, 298 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: we don't know how many subjects were involved or how 299 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: actually the studies were conducted, but we do know that 300 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:57,960 Speaker 1: his findings at least were negative. But along comes someone 301 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: called Rupert Sheldrick, and he's done several informal and formal 302 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: studies that show that PSC is real ish. Um, you 303 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: know his studies would bear that out. Now, others who 304 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: have tried to replicate the studies get negative results. Um. 305 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: And when they replicate his studies, by the way, they're 306 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: they're using random process and other strict controls that he 307 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: has been criticized for not using. Well that's a red 308 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: flag right there, right, So yeah, it's always a red 309 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: flag if you can't replicate the results over and over 310 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: and right. Um, So I would say, at best, the 311 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,480 Speaker 1: jury is still out. At worst, it does seem like 312 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: this is something that is it's not a thing with 313 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: a capital ty. Yeah, it's researching the material. I really 314 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 1: had to fall into the suspicion that it is not 315 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: a thing, that it's merely um, a combination of two things. Really. 316 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:56,120 Speaker 1: First of all, it's it's about superstition and uh. And 317 00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: then the other side of it is that, of course 318 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: it is a it's a false positive. Okay. This goes 319 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: into the whole idea of error management theory, which we've 320 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: we've touched on before in discussing belief in the supernatural, 321 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: belief in lucky charms, uh, various things that are not real. 322 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 1: So when it comes to cognition, we have two types 323 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: of errors cognition and dealing with situations of uncertainty. You 324 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 1: can make a type one era, a false positive, in 325 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: which we decide that a risk or benefit exists when 326 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: it does not. Okay. So we make a type one 327 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: error when we think that there's a savor tooth tiger 328 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: behind us and then they're not there. Okay. Then there's 329 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: a type two error, a false negative, and this entails 330 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,400 Speaker 1: failing to notice a risk or benefit that exists. So 331 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: this is when we think there might be a savor 332 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: tooth tiger, but we don't act on it, and then 333 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: we're eating, so we made a We're like, oh, I 334 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: don't think there's anything there, and then we're consumed. So 335 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: it's better to think that there might be that savoth. 336 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 1: You can argue the nature selects for those who jump 337 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: to conclusions, because if I react every time like there's 338 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: a savor tooth tiger tiger, then it more likely that 339 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: I will react correctly when the savory tooth tiger actually 340 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: comes for me. And likewise, if I always assume there's 341 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: no savor tooth tiger on the other side of the 342 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 1: high grasses, then I have increased odds of winding up 343 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: in a savor tooths belly. Okay, So that falls in 344 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 1: line perfectly with a study in Current Biology by the 345 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: University of Sydney called humans have an expectation that gaze 346 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 1: is directed for them. I think the title because if 347 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,520 Speaker 1: someone's looking at me, they might have some some ill intentions. 348 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: So it's the same thing. Yeah, So the idea is 349 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: that we always think that people are staring at us, 350 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: so or we always expect that they are. So if 351 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,400 Speaker 1: you feel like there's a sense like, oh, someone's staring 352 00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: at me right now, you may look around quickly and 353 00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 1: just assume that person is staring at you. So the 354 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: researchers say that this is largely protective, as you say, 355 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 1: and that many primates, a direct gaze is threatening or aggressive, 356 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 1: and you'd want to make sure that you didn't miss this, right, 357 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: you'd want to know if someone was trying to threaten you. 358 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: So what they did, of course, is they took some 359 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: participants with computer generated faces in front of them, and 360 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,480 Speaker 1: then they made it difficult for the observer for the 361 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: participants by obscuring the direction of the gaze by rotating 362 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: the heads slightly from previous positions, and they asked the 363 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: participants to judge the relative gaze directions. Overwhelmingly, uh, when 364 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: they were in these uncertain positions, people will more likely 365 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: to judge that even this computer generated face was staring 366 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: directly at them. So, you know, just a tiniest little 367 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: bit of the gaze change, they think, oh, it's still 368 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: looking at me, even when it wasn't. So that's why 369 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 1: the researchers say this is something that perhaps we're just 370 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: hardwired to believe that people are staring at us. So 371 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 1: if you I'm sure you've seen this in the notice 372 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,639 Speaker 1: this in the train before. If someone is sitting across 373 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: from you with sunglasses on, don't you for a while think, 374 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: I know you're staring at me, staring at me? What 375 00:18:59,320 --> 00:19:02,400 Speaker 1: are you thinking? Are are And then you realize suddenly, okay, 376 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: they have sunglasses on. They could be asleep right now. 377 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 1: It's true. Yeah, but I but I often find myself 378 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: in the past. I don't really wear sunglasses much in 379 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: the train anymore, but I have worn sunglasses on the 380 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: train and have thought to myself, I have free reign. 381 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: I can stare at whoever and wherever I want to. 382 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 1: And so I'll stare at this person or I'll stare 383 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: at that person. You know. Um, so I I know 384 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:24,919 Speaker 1: if I'm doing it, other people are doing it. So 385 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: it's just the wild West open there. But isn't it 386 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: just because you don't have that data, your mind goes 387 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,359 Speaker 1: a little bit crazy and you just assume that again, 388 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to make that U I'm gonna make that 389 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:36,880 Speaker 1: type one error. I'm just gonna assume that they're looking 390 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,120 Speaker 1: at me and then take either the you know, take 391 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,239 Speaker 1: it either as a compliment or a threat. There you go. 392 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: So the next stage of this research is to try 393 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: to figure out if this bias, this cognitive cognitive bias 394 00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:51,719 Speaker 1: really is learned orientate and what it might tell us 395 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:55,400 Speaker 1: about other mental conditions, because it's shown that people who 396 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: have autism are less able to tell whether someone is 397 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 1: actually looking at them or is there ring at them, 398 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: and then people with social anxiety, on the other hand, 399 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: have a higher tendency to think that they are under 400 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: the stare of others more often. So it's interesting bit 401 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: of research there see what they tease out on them. 402 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: Cool and like I said, I feel like it has 403 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,879 Speaker 1: a direct correlation with a lot of the research that 404 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: we've looked at in the past about superstitious beliefs in 405 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: the idea that a lucky charm works, et cetera. Right, 406 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 1: we do it because it makes sense for us to 407 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: go ahead and believe that this is the case. Now, 408 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about staring and faces. Uh, people 409 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: are are looking at my face, I'm looking at other 410 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: people's faces. But there's another type of staring that goes goes, 411 00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: goes around, and that of course is staring at body. Parts. Yeah, 412 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: and this is where we get into objectification. Right, You're 413 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: not just staring at someone, You're staring at some aspect 414 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: of that person. We have mentioned this study before, but 415 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: Sarah your face, she's an assistant professor and lead author 416 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,919 Speaker 1: of the study Seeing Women as Objects said, we introduced 417 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 1: and tested the sexual body part recognition bias hypothesis that 418 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,120 Speaker 1: women versus men's bodies would be reduced to their sexual 419 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: body parts in the minds of perceivers. And this is 420 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: called global processing of data data rather than locals. So 421 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: in other words, what they did is they they took 422 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,719 Speaker 1: images of clothes men and women, and they put them 423 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,640 Speaker 1: in front of two hundred and twenty seven people, equally 424 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: men and women, and they were shown a sequence of 425 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 1: images before two images settled on their screen. One was 426 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 1: of the original image and the other showed the groin area, 427 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,560 Speaker 1: the groin age, if the groinage, and men and women 428 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: were more likely to recognize body parts when shown images 429 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: of women. Okay, again, this is that that global and 430 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: then both were more likely to recognize the whole image 431 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 1: when shown pictures of men. What does this say? It 432 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,959 Speaker 1: so that we look at men as complete people, whereas 433 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 1: women we look at them in just parts and men 434 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,159 Speaker 1: and women. So we use global processing with men and 435 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: we use a local processing with women, Okay, and then 436 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: not to say that we cannot look at women with 437 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,160 Speaker 1: global processing. And in fact, I would challenge anyone out 438 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: I mean, especially the men out there, that if you 439 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 1: find yourself using local processing, uh, you know, just sort 440 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: of without thinking about it, like oh, I'm looking at 441 00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: that person's but like it at least, like turn on 442 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: global processing for a minute and think, oh, I wonder 443 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: what his or her hopes and dreams are. Well, what 444 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: I think is interesting about that is that both men 445 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: and women women do it. So if I'm on the 446 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: train and another woman comes on, if I'm not conscious 447 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: of it, most likely I'm maybe looking at this person 448 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: in parts as well and not thinking like what's she 449 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 1: going to have for dinner tonight, but more like, look 450 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: at those elbows. Those are some sharp elbows. I bet 451 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,920 Speaker 1: they could really deliver a lot of paint. Um, yes, 452 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: something like that. But it made me think about Marina Uppermomitch. Okay, 453 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: So she is a performance artists. We've talked about her before, fascinating. 454 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: She has an exhibit, or had an exhibit called the 455 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,399 Speaker 1: Artist is Present, and it was a retrospective of her 456 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: work over the past forty years, and she has done 457 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,040 Speaker 1: a lot with objectification. In fact, in one of her 458 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: performance pieces, I believe, she was naked and she had 459 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: a bunch of objects around her. It was like a feather, 460 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 1: and then there was also a gun. Was it loaded, 461 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: I can't even remember that detail. I can't remember if 462 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: it was loaded either, But there was a knife, There 463 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,399 Speaker 1: was all sorts of things. There was a flower, and 464 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: she allowed the audience to choose what they might do 465 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 1: with those objects, and she said it was awful that 466 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: that overwhelmingly after a period of time passed and one 467 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 1: person did something that was sort of out of the 468 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: norm with one of those objects, other people felt normalized 469 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: by it. And she had, you know, knives held up 470 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: to her. She did have one person wielding the gun, 471 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:49,480 Speaker 1: and um, so it was really an exploration of like 472 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: how easy it is to objectify someone, particularly a woman. 473 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: So this, uh, this exhibit that she had The Artist 474 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: is Present is really sort of away the opposite of that, 475 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: a way to sort of take that objectification turn it 476 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: around on its head. And she would sit across from 477 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: someone at a table and that and that way, the 478 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: audience member was just one person just sitting across from her, 479 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: and she would stare at them for ten minutes and 480 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,200 Speaker 1: they at her. And that way, they had to look 481 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: at her fully as a human being, and she had 482 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: to look at them fully as a human thing. And 483 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: what's it's you know, it seems pretty like, okay, well, 484 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,919 Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Why is that? Are just 485 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 1: two people sitting across from each other. But it turns 486 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 1: out this is a really powerful experience because, as we 487 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,240 Speaker 1: discussed in our podcast on performance art, you very seldom 488 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: sit across from someone and look in their eyes for 489 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: ten minutes straight, even your loved ones. And so people 490 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: just started crying and felt overwhelming and like they were 491 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 1: just in love with her. That was some of the things, uh, 492 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,320 Speaker 1: some of the things that were said that she saw 493 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,399 Speaker 1: them finally as a person um and here she is 494 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: a stranger to them, you know. And again, that's one 495 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: of the things that makes podcasting so weird, because we're 496 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: in here for like an hour and there's an absurd 497 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: amount of eye contact going on. Yeah, but I mean 498 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: for ten minutes, you and I don't just sit there 499 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: and stare at each other. Well that would be that 500 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,400 Speaker 1: would be weird and arguably it would be a real 501 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: pain to listen to. Well, what I think is interesting 502 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,440 Speaker 1: about what Abramovich was doing is that And I don't 503 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: know if she was aware that she was gaming people 504 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: in a way, but um, she was sort of manipulating 505 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,160 Speaker 1: their feelings. And she did have an accomplice come behind 506 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: and take their wallet about five minutes. Then there was 507 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: they funded the whole thing. Well, you know, I gotta 508 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 1: get creative in the arts, uh. And Jake Kellerman's paper 509 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,479 Speaker 1: Looking and Loving the Effects of Mutual Gaze on Feelings 510 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 1: of Romantic love, researchers took seventy two unacquainted undergraduate students, 511 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: split them into male female parents, and then they studied 512 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: the effects that two minutes, just two minutes of uninterrupted 513 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: mutual eye contact had on their feelings toward one another. 514 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: And they found that if the two strangers gazed into 515 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 1: each other's eyes for those two minutes, they later reported 516 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,199 Speaker 1: that they had increased feelings of affection or even passionate 517 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: love towards that person. Now they did this, um and 518 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: in other ways where they weren't asked to actually like 519 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,080 Speaker 1: actively steer into each other's eyes, but just be with 520 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 1: each other for two minutes. They were free to look 521 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,600 Speaker 1: at the person's hands or so on and so forth. 522 00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,640 Speaker 1: And in that case they did not report those feelings. 523 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: But there's something about connecting staring into the eyes for 524 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: that long, uninterrupted that causes those feelings. And so I 525 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 1: wasn't too shocked when, um, when I began to think 526 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: about some of the things that popped up from Abrabois performance, 527 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 1: like there's a website called Marina made Me Cry or 528 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: Marina Abraboma which made me cry, um, Because that's the 529 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: the sort of deep held feelings that are in there 530 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,120 Speaker 1: that when you connect with a person on that level 531 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: that come out. It reminds me to the study of 532 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 1: the two documentary to excellent documentary films, um Baraka and 533 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: Sam Sara, but by the same filmmakers. Have you seen 534 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 1: either of those? I assume you've seen you have seen, 535 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: and I've seen Baraca, but that was a long time ago, 536 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: and I wasn't so about it, and and then you 537 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,439 Speaker 1: were terribly mortified by that. Well, Um, as you'll remember 538 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: in both of these films, and this is not a 539 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: technique that's limited just to Sam Sara and Baraca. But 540 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,639 Speaker 1: they'll have these scenes where they'll be an individual from 541 00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: a different culture and they'll just be standing there, uh, 542 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,640 Speaker 1: filmed staring at you. So in a sense, you're you're 543 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: forced to make eye contact with this individual and connect 544 00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: with this this uh, this subject of this uh, this 545 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 1: portrait not only as a subject, isn't as an object, 546 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: but as a person. And it it's really emotionally evocative, 547 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: right again, because now you're you're considering them as the whole. Yeah, 548 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: because you're you're you're watching them breathe and you're you're 549 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:59,640 Speaker 1: you're staring into their eyes. I'm saying you exist, I exist. Yeah, 550 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 1: And then someone next to you in the theater says, 551 00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,280 Speaker 1: cut it out. Quit talking to the screen, Quit telling 552 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: the screen it exists. We're trying to watch a movie here. 553 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: But going back to the old staring contest, and I 554 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: wasn't really prepared for the staring contest. I'm not trying 555 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: to get out of losing it, but I've kind of 556 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 1: forgot what the rules were, because apparently the rule is 557 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: not that you lose by looking away, but you lose 558 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: by blinking alone, which seems kind of silly. Yeah, but 559 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 1: that's the dominance factor, right, like, I will not blink 560 00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: and and I will be so intense and aggressive that 561 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: I will win this. I totally I need to have 562 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: a rematch with my brother, clearly, maybe you can do 563 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: it over Skype or something. Yeah, I think we're going 564 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: to FaceTime maybe. Um. So, of course, blinking, though, is inevitable, 565 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: and we do it something like fifteen to twenty times 566 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: a minute. Well, we have to lubricates the cornea, and 567 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: if you're not blinking enough, it's it's not good for 568 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: the eye, right, and it's dislodging little bits of dirt 569 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: and dust that get in there. But this is a 570 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: really interesting revelation that has recently come out in paper 571 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 572 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: Researchers found that people tend to blink at predictable moments, 573 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: and they blink a lot more than they need to. 574 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: So you don't need to blink fifteen to twenty times 575 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: a minute just to lubricate your eyeball or dislodge something. 576 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,240 Speaker 1: So you've got these predictable moments that you blink at. 577 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: So if you're reading, you tend to blink at the 578 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 1: end of each sentence. If you're listening to someone speak, 579 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: you may blink when the speaker pauses between statements. And 580 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: if a group of people are all watching the same video, 581 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: everyone tends to blink at the same time when the 582 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: action briefly lags. I was trying to remain conscious of 583 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: my blinking just now, and I did find that I 584 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 1: would blink whenever you would have a stop in the sentence. 585 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: I know. Actually I wish that we had had given 586 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: everybody a tip off before I read that to see 587 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: if they were doing the same thing. But maybe you 588 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: guys out there are being aware of that as well. Well. 589 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: As I say this, think about when you when you 590 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: blink towards Brill and the slivey toads, did Guay and 591 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: Gimble in the way, when did you blink? You know? 592 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: I think it might have matched up. So there's more 593 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 1: to it, though. This is the really cool thing, and 594 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 1: it's uh blinking, It turns out is a way that 595 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,680 Speaker 1: we get a quick refresher for our brains. Yeah, and 596 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: since we're resetting the visuals that we're taking in, which 597 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: I find find really interesting. It's it's like I'm looking 598 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 1: at a painting and then I blink and then maybe 599 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: I'm looking to a new part of the painting and 600 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: I'm seeing it a new Each time we blink, we're 601 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 1: kind of re establishing the scenario for the brain. In 602 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: a sense, we're kind of updating the the the image 603 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: like a like a security camera that doesn't have a 604 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: constant stream but merely updates every it's refreshing and refocusing. 605 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 1: And of course someone tested this out to Mommy Nicano 606 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,720 Speaker 1: along with other researchers, scan the brains of ten volunteers 607 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: in an f m R I machine while they watched Okay, 608 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 1: check this out, Mr Bean. Why Mr Bean, I do 609 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: not know, but they watched the show Mr Bean why 610 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,440 Speaker 1: they were being scanned, And it turns out when the 611 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 1: volunteers blink, the activity correlated with increased blood flow to 612 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: the default mode network, which we know is the seat 613 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: of midline chatter in our brain, but also is associated 614 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: with a state of rest, or rather wakeful rest. So 615 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: the Mr Bean show also contained momentary blackouts, so those 616 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: were built into the shows and volunteers would see nothing 617 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,800 Speaker 1: in these blackouts actually lasted for the same amount of 618 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: time that a blink does, and what they found is 619 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 1: that the brain did not respond in the same way, 620 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,840 Speaker 1: and that that area that's were related to the default 621 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: mode network was not activated. And that leads to this 622 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: conclusion that blinking is something that is that's much more 623 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: than just a temporary blackout um that that it is 624 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: serving a purpose to refocus our efforts and our thoughts. 625 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: So in a sense, if we're engaging in some sort 626 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 1: of like alpha mare stare down and we're not blinking, 627 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: what we're saying is, yeah, I don't need to reset this. 628 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,080 Speaker 1: I see everything I need to see right here. I 629 00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: don't need any new information. That's right. That's right, Better 630 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: step off, that's right. I'm the zen master of all 631 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:17,239 Speaker 1: stimuli coming in right now, going rods, some rods. So 632 00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: take that in with you next time you you're on 633 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,720 Speaker 1: the train, you're at the mall, you're pulling out of 634 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: your driveway, and there's somebody that needs a serious stare down. Um, 635 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: now you know a little more about why you feel 636 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: this compulsion to either engage with the staring or to 637 00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: run from it, or or indeed why the blinking occurs, 638 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: because you're you're updating the information that is before you, 639 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: and probably that person isn't staring at you, but it's 640 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: good for you to be aware of your surroundings. Right, Yeah, 641 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: calm down a little bit. You're probably not being stared 642 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,000 Speaker 1: at unless you know there is something like stuck to 643 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: the back of your shirt or something, and in case 644 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: in that case, maybe somebody will say something or toilet 645 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: paper trailing down from your pants, But don't worry about that. 646 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,479 Speaker 1: It's just random stuff of life. A little ninnis all right. Well, 647 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 1: on that note, we're gonna go ahead and um and 648 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,120 Speaker 1: call it a day on this podcast. The robot is 649 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: on vacation, so we hope that he's having a great time. 650 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: Where did you go, Abiza? Yeah? Wow, Well he loves 651 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 1: he loves the music scene there. He does volleyball, so 652 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: those are his passions, so we hope he's living it up. Um. 653 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: In the meantime, if you wanted to touch base with 654 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: us about staring, about blinking, we would love to hear 655 00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 1: from you. What is your weird social dynamic with individuals 656 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: uh in regard to staring? And what is is there 657 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,720 Speaker 1: any truth to this whole? Like is the world really 658 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 1: about duds who lift and doos who don't lift? And 659 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 1: then what is it like? What's it like? As a 660 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: woman to engage in this uh, in this world of staring, 661 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 1: in this world of justification, and the seeing of individuals 662 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: as uh as a pile of parts rather than a whole. 663 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: All of that's fair game. You can find us in 664 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,320 Speaker 1: the usual places our main homepage, Stuff to Alow your 665 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: Mind dot com, Facebook, and Tumbler where we were Stuff 666 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: to Ablow your Mind, Twitter where we are blow the Mind, 667 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:01,080 Speaker 1: and YouTube where we are mind stuff. And if you 668 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 1: are a lifter and you refute my anecdote about this 669 00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: aggressive staring into the mirror sent me straight, let me know. 670 00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: Let us know your feelings by dropping a line at 671 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 1: Blood of the Mind at discovery dot com for more 672 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Is it how 673 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com