1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Hello, it could happen here. Listeners, this is your friend 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: DJ Daniel and I wanted to tell you about the 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,559 Speaker 1: live stream that is happening this Friday, April fourteenth at 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: three pm PST. It could fundraise here on Twitch dot 5 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: tv slash. It could happen here, no spaces. James, Serene 6 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: and myself have been planning this fundraiser for about a 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,599 Speaker 1: month and we will be raising money for the World 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 1: Central Kitchen for those affected by the earthquakes in Turkey 9 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: and Syria. There'll be games, incentives, special guests, lots of fun. 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: We hope to see you there at Twitch dot tv slash. 11 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 1: It could happen here no spaces this Friday, April fourteenth 12 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: at three pm PST. It's going to be a blast. 13 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 1: Bring your money. It's for a good cause. See you there. 14 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: My chickens just come to me. You got you didn't 15 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: catch you? Yeah? It's love, not coercion. That is how 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: you catch a chicken, which is not what this podcast 17 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: is about, is it, Robert, No, it's not. No unfortunate. 18 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: We're doing the Catching Chickens episode next week, but today 19 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: we are joined by three guests. We have Ava Mo 20 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: and Wode and They're going to be talking to us 21 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: about solidarity with anarchist prisoners and how you can do 22 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: that and why you should do that, and why people 23 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:26,959 Speaker 1: have been doing that for a long time. So would 24 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: you guys like to introduce yourselves and just tell us 25 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: your names and any relevant affiliations and your pronouns. I'm 26 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:37,760 Speaker 1: Ava she Her. I've been working with June eleventh for 27 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: about a handful of years now and been doing prisoners 28 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: support for almost ten years now. I'm more a Maltaco 29 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: and everyone calls me Mo. My pronouns are they or Mo? 30 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 1: And I'm an attorney and I do a lot of 31 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: work with political prisoners, people facing politically motivated prosecutions, and 32 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: incarcerated people who need gender affirming care. Excellent, Yeah, it's 33 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: very important stuff. Hey, my name's Woade, you see him pronounced. 34 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: I've been involved in prisoner support for twenty five plus 35 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,079 Speaker 1: years and enjoying anarchists related activities for longer than that. 36 00:02:13,480 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 1: So I think if we start off with perhaps explaining 37 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: like what June eleventh is and sort of the history 38 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: of it, why why this is a day that people 39 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: can share the solidarity without anarchist prisoners, that would be great, 40 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: and just what if you want to talk about that? Yeah, 41 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: So June eleventh started as a day of solidarity with 42 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: Jeff Lolors when he was serving u like a twenty 43 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: two years sentence for torching some SUVs. But eventually he 44 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 1: was able to get his sentence shortened and he got out. 45 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,959 Speaker 1: And at that point, Marius Mason and Eric McDavid were 46 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: in prison with twenty years sentences for um ECO sabotage 47 00:02:54,600 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 1: activity or in Eric's case, being entrapped for such. And 48 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: so it eventually changed to be about Marius and Eric 49 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: after Jeff was released, and then Eric McDavid also got 50 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 1: out of prison, and since then it expanded to all 51 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 1: long term anarchist prisoners. I wonder like, obviously we're in 52 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: like eight point as people have a few months before 53 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: June eleventh, and they might be interested in doing this. 54 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: They might not know any people directly they're incarcerated, or 55 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,880 Speaker 1: they might not have had any experience with that sort 56 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: of in their close circles. So if we start with 57 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: like how people can show solidarity like two incarcerate to people, 58 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: I think that would be great. So they're like things 59 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: that people can do, how can they do that? Like, 60 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: so that people. I guess people who are incarcerat can 61 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: can hear them or hear from them. Yeah, I mean 62 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: writing letters is kind of a classic go to. UM 63 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,280 Speaker 1: there's also a ways to communicate digitally or over the 64 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: phone lets people locked up. You know, putting money on 65 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,840 Speaker 1: someone's books goes a long way. Everything is extremely overpriced 66 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: in prison and monopolized by the corporations that provide that 67 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: those services. But I mean, if if you're looking for 68 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: people you have stuff in common with the particularly political 69 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: things kind of carrying on the struggle and including their 70 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,280 Speaker 1: name in those activities as part of that, and if 71 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: you are in communication with them, um, talking to them 72 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: about those things, getting there input and helping them feel 73 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: included in those struggles goes aspect the longest way. Yeah. 74 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,160 Speaker 1: I think that's such an important point because, like when 75 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: you're talking about someone, for example, who's been like entrapped 76 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: by by the FEDS or whatever law enforcement agency was 77 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: responsible for it, like you're you're talking about a strategic 78 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: pattern that the state uses to clamp down on resistance, 79 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: and the efficacy of that strategy is entirely determined by 80 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: their ability to kind of break people and to break 81 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: movements by both making people suspicious of each other and 82 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: by you know, locking up and damaging the people who 83 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,800 Speaker 1: are kind of most prone to action. And I think 84 00:05:16,000 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: doing stuff like this like not only helps kind of 85 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: heal those the distrust that is inherently planted by the 86 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 1: state when they do stuff like this, but also helps 87 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,480 Speaker 1: the people who are kind of most targeted and who 88 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: have suffered the most for the cause not feel like 89 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: they're swinging in the wind, you know. Yeah, Yeah, I 90 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: think it helps mitigate the fear of repression and arrests 91 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: and especially things like terrorism enhancements. Yeah, when people know 92 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: that they're they're not going to be alone when they're 93 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: in prison, even if it is for decades, like there's 94 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: going to be people supporting them and writing them and 95 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: fundraising for them and like including them in their projects 96 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 1: like the entire time. Yeah, I would say too that 97 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: main time AVEN or something becomes more effective, um they've 98 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: become the focus of the state tends to sharpen on them. 99 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: And a lot of the prisoners that have been supported 100 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: around the June eleventh, they have solidarity were involved in 101 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: environmental animalyights activities that were particularly effective and particularly destructive 102 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 1: in a positive sense um, particularly like the alf and 103 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: Els actions of the nineties. UM, but on this very 104 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 1: intense repression in the early two thousands that came to 105 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,120 Speaker 1: be called the Green Scare. Yeah. Kind of our our 106 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: theme for this year is that that repression like doesn't work. 107 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: All these like movements and struggles and activities continue even 108 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 1: despite that kind of repression. Like there's still you know, 109 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: activity in defense of the earth and animals and land defense, 110 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: and there's still like really militant queer self defense, and 111 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 1: there's still a lot of like a ton of activity 112 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: against police and against racist police violence and murder, and 113 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 1: like as much of those as much as those things 114 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: are repressed, like, it doesn't stop them, and they just 115 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: keep getting stronger. I think the only thing I would 116 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 1: add to that is one of the most important things 117 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: about doing political prisoner support or prisoner support in general, 118 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: is that the state really does work to criminalize politically 119 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: motivated behavior and politically motivated beliefs, which functions pretty effectively 120 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: to distract from the central message of social movements, whatever 121 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 1: social movement it may be. And providing prisoner support and 122 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: continuing to keep people who are in prison apprised of 123 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 1: those struggles continuing to engage in those struggles can really 124 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: function to refocus on that central message, even despite the 125 00:07:55,320 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: fact that state repression is a very effective drain on 126 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: movement resources and a very effective distraction from movement messaging 127 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: that is super important. Like if we look at like 128 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: the movement for Black Lives so that George Floyd Uprising 129 00:08:10,840 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: will have, we want to kind of phrase it like 130 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 1: the speed and like severity with which the state kind 131 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: of cracked down on that and attempts to infiltrate it, 132 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: attempted to create suspicion, attempted to create fear. Was like, 133 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: I think most people listening might be familiar with that, 134 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 1: even if they're not familiar with the Green Scare or 135 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 1: like previous incidents. And it's not just like I know, 136 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 1: we have people listening in other countries. This is not 137 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 1: just a America thing, right, Like British cops literally fucking 138 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: married people in the like in the early two thousands. 139 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,080 Speaker 1: It's part of their undercover situation. And one of them 140 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:56,440 Speaker 1: also went to clown school, which is funny at that 141 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: as a charming story. Yeah, it's one. I thank you 142 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: not to refer to these academy that way. Yeah, I 143 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: guess they all went to clowns goven in a sense. Yeah, 144 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: so yeah, we'll do We'll do a long promised clown 145 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: block episode one day. I know you have some insight 146 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:29,559 Speaker 1: into marius case as his lawyer, right, So could you 147 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: explain a little bit about about that case if people 148 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: can understand like how a politically motivated prosecution works in 149 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: the exposed justice system that we have. So just to clarify, 150 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: I represent Marius now and I do advocacy for him. Well, 151 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: he is confined. I was not his criminal defense attorney. 152 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: So Marius was active in the very late nineties and 153 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: early two thousands and investigations that we're going on at 154 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: that time in the state. Repression that was focused on 155 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: the movements against environmental degradation was deep and concerted and 156 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,040 Speaker 1: went on for many, many years. And that's sort of 157 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,680 Speaker 1: what we refer to as the green scare, right, the 158 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 1: criminalizing of environmental movements. And I talk about criminalized behavior 159 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 1: and criminalized identity a lot. So I'm actually just going 160 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: to take a second and explain what I mean by that, yes, please, So, 161 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 1: the criminalization of identity refers to where law enforcement in 162 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: the state are policing monitoring, targeting identity rather than unlawful conduct, 163 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 1: and the criminalization of belief. Similarly, it refers to the 164 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:04,559 Speaker 1: state targeting people on the basis of their beliefs rather 165 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: than on the basis of unlawful conduct. So movements social movements. 166 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,560 Speaker 1: There's a very long and well documented history of social 167 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: movements being criminalized by the state, even in the absence 168 00:11:18,920 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: of any unlawful behavior. So the movements against environmental degradation 169 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: were heavily plased, targeted, infiltrated, and many federal grand juries 170 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: and setups and entrapments and successful prosecutions stemmed from that 171 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: criminalizing of environmental movements, and Marius's case was among those. Basically, 172 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: the state managed to turn Marius's former partner into an 173 00:11:54,400 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: asset and effectively charged prosecuted him for several acts of 174 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: politically motivated destruction of property, all of which were calculated 175 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: not to harm human beings. He pled guilty and was 176 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: sentenced in two thousand and nine. Had his had the 177 00:12:22,040 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: offenses to which he pled guilty not been perceived as 178 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: politically motivated, he would have probably gotten about seven years 179 00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: because the prosecution argued that his behavior was politically motivated, 180 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: which I mean, I think is true. He was hit 181 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 1: with a terrorism enhancement which increased the severity of his punishment. 182 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: On the basis of how serious an offender he was 183 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 1: then deemed to be. The prosecution asked for twenty years, 184 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 1: the judge imposed twenty two. So here's an example of 185 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: how beliefs are criminalized. At his sentencing, the judge and 186 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: the prosecution both invoked and referred to what I think 187 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:27,080 Speaker 1: most of us would view as really unremarkable political behavior 188 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: in ways that really cast it as very sinister. And 189 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: so Marius's contact with people who were on his support committee, 190 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 1: who were engaged in various kinds of civil disobedience about 191 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:52,120 Speaker 1: which Marius likely knew nothing was cast as Marius being 192 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: in continued contact with people engaged in crimes, which was 193 00:13:57,080 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: a violation or would have been a violation of his 194 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: bond conditions. And on the basis of that claim that 195 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: Marius was violating his bond conditions by being in touch 196 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: with these people who again were engaged in what I 197 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: think most of us would see as completely unremarkable civil 198 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: disobedience constitutionally protected political behavior. This was one of the 199 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: bases on which the judge imposed this sentence that was 200 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: even longer than the prosecution had asked for. And there's 201 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: a number of other examples of this kind of criminalization 202 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: of routine political behavior, one of which is very significant, 203 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: which is that when Marius finally went to prison, he 204 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: started a reading group, and based on the content of 205 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: the books that they were reading, he was transferred from 206 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: a lower security facility pretty close to his family to facility, 207 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: and not just a facility, but a particular wing of 208 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,680 Speaker 1: a facility, which was the administrative segregation unit at FMC 209 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: Carswell in Texas, which was much much farther from his 210 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 1: family and was involved all kinds of extremely stringent conditions 211 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: that I would argue were First Amendment violations. So you know, 212 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: we see not only the really intense surveillance and targeting 213 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: of social movements, but the really disproportionate punishments and sort 214 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: of retaliatory behaviors all the way down, all the way 215 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: from investigation through to incarceration and conditions of confinement. That's 216 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: a traitious obviously, So I wonder when he received those, like, 217 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: maybe perhaps you should first explain what a terrorism enhancement 218 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: is in case people aren't familiar. It is at what's 219 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: called a sentencing enhancement, and it allows, it authorizes, or 220 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: in some cases requires a judge to impose a harsher 221 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: sentence for behavior that's intended to I don't remember what 222 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: the exact language is, but it's it imposes a harsher 223 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: sentence for unlawful acts that are intended to intimidate or 224 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: coerce the public or public institutions. Okay, so that's that's 225 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 1: what increased like nitty triple that sentence in that case. Yeah. 226 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: And was that specifically like because he'd express anarchist ideas 227 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 1: or just because it was like his actions were in 228 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: sort of further of that liberation Front kind of goals. 229 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,440 Speaker 1: I think it was explicitly because it was an ELF 230 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 1: associated action. Yeah, right, Yeah, it was part of this 231 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: crackdown on environmental movements. It's similar to what we're seeing 232 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: in Atlanta right now, like right down to the terrorism enhancements. 233 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 1: What we're seeing in Atlanta right now is actually a 234 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: little bit more astonishing just in terms of, first of all, 235 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: we're not really seeing it necessarily a terrorism enhancement. There 236 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 1: is a statute that criminalizes what they are calling domestic terrorism. 237 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: It operates similarly, right there's a predicate act and then 238 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: if it's politically motivated, you know, so you could, for example, 239 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:29,160 Speaker 1: potentially have something like politically motivated trespass right or politically 240 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 1: motivated graffiti, and they could charge it as domestic terrorism. 241 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: The enhancement is a sentencing mechanism, but it certainly is 242 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: not new. What we're seeing in Atlanta, I would say, 243 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:51,719 Speaker 1: is it is remarkable, but it is a continuation of 244 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: the same kind of targeted policing efforts to chill social movements, 245 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: efforts to disrupt social movements, to isolate people, to fractionate movements. 246 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: It's the same kind of thing that we have seen 247 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: really since the beginning of policing in this country. And 248 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: that makes a lot of sense when you consider like 249 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: the role of the police within the state and the 250 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: goals of some of these social movements, right, which we're 251 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 1: pretty to have to explain that in detail for people 252 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 1: to understand what's going on. So like with these people 253 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: facing you mentioned a couple of the other people who 254 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: would face political prosecutions and were incarcerated and then had 255 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,680 Speaker 1: their sentences reduced, and maybe we could explain like how 256 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: that was able to happen, right, because that's obviously like 257 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: a desirable outcome. I don't know the like the legal 258 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: things that happened for that, but it was like it 259 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 1: was like in the court room kind of a solution. Okay, Yeah, 260 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: I'm curious just kind of in general, since you've all 261 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: had more contact with these folks who are incarcerated and 262 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: have been the kind of the victims of this this 263 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: state violence, when they talk about like what is kind 264 00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: of meaningful to them in terms of outside connections, in 265 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 1: terms of like, you know what we're talking about here, Um, 266 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: what kind of stuff do they bring up as like 267 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: having a positive impact on their mental health, on their 268 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: kind of ability to endure what they're what they're going through. First, 269 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 1: I would say that communication is a big thing, like 270 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: being able to talk to people, to write with people, 271 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 1: and you know, a long term like regular correspondence is great, 272 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,399 Speaker 1: but even just like little messages of solidarity can be 273 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: really meaningful. Material support is always huge, Like that's going 274 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,439 Speaker 1: to make somebody sound a little bit better if they 275 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 1: can get stuff off a commissary, you know, by enough 276 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: stamps all those things. But the thing that I hear 277 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: a lot is like people want to see the projects 278 00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: and the struggles that they're involved in continue. So if 279 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: that's like defense of the earth, if that's against the 280 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: police or or whatever it is, Like people like to 281 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: see that, um because it's you know, it's not just 282 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: about their own case, but yeah, about those movements that 283 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: they come from and um or if somebody's you know, 284 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: radicalized inside these things that they have um committed to 285 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: and been red from participating in a huge way, not 286 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: entirely um, but you know, people like to see to 287 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:31,359 Speaker 1: see that continue and see um see victories, see like 288 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: creative attempts and things like that. That makes a lot 289 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: of sense, I think so for people like I know, 290 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: like I'll start that's right to incarcerate to people for 291 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 1: various things, And it can be quite difficult to like 292 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,879 Speaker 1: to work out the process of doing that, and it 293 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: can be especially difficult. It was especially difficult during during 294 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: like the worst of the COVID kind of lockdowns and 295 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: search and like you couldn't I was trying to write 296 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 1: to a guy in one federal intehote and they wouldn't 297 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 1: let the person email me because they claimed that the 298 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: keyboard was like a high touch surface and this yeah, right, 299 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: like and which people were getting COVID in this facility 300 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 1: all the time. But how would folks go about, like, 301 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 1: let's say they wanted to to write to Marius and 302 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: just say, like, you know, we wanted to express the 303 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: solidarity and say it sucks that this is happening to 304 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: you or whatever. How would they go about doing that. 305 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: There's a couple of things that are specific with Marius 306 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,480 Speaker 1: that I will want to tell you, but you can 307 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: go to if you google inmate locator bop, you can 308 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: search Marius his name or the name of any other 309 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:47,080 Speaker 1: prisoner and you'll basically end up with It'll show you 310 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 1: their information, including where they are confined, and you can 311 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 1: usually click on the name of the facility and it 312 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: will take you to the website for that facility and 313 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:04,399 Speaker 1: show you how to send mail to the prisoner. There's 314 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: also if you go to NYC ABC dot WordPress, dot 315 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:14,160 Speaker 1: com or any of the other anarchist Black Cross websites. 316 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: NYC ABC is my home chapter, so that's the one 317 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: I'm familiar with. But if you go to the Anarchist 318 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: Black Cross websites, there are zines and I think a 319 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: whole list that is pretty well updated of all of 320 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: the anarchists political prisoners and instructions on how to write 321 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: to them. One of the things that is on those 322 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: websites that I would highly encourage you to take seriously 323 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:47,640 Speaker 1: are instructions about how to responsibly write to people who 324 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: are under increased monitoring and surveillance while they are being confined. 325 00:22:54,119 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: Because retaliation against prisoners, even for things that the prisoners 326 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: themselves have not done, is very commonplace. And so if 327 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,159 Speaker 1: somebody while we very much want to make sure we 328 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 1: keep in touch with people and give them news of 329 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: the outside world, including news about their social movements, one 330 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,440 Speaker 1: thing that can happen is that those letters simply will 331 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: not be delivered. And another thing that might happen is 332 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 1: that the prisoner themselves may face disciplinary consequences formally or informally, 333 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: just as a result of having been the intended recipient 334 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,880 Speaker 1: of that news. So, you know, I would say, as 335 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: I often say, discretion is the better part of valor. 336 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: In this instance, I think you have to have a 337 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 1: kind of a first do no harm attitude about this, 338 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:53,399 Speaker 1: where like, at the end of the day, regardless of 339 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: your anger or your desire to talk about, you know, 340 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,199 Speaker 1: certain things, your primary concern he has to be not 341 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: making things worse for somebody who's already in a terrible situation. Yes, 342 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,760 Speaker 1: And I would also like to point out that prisoner 343 00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,000 Speaker 1: mail is monitored, and so among other things, you might 344 00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: be making things worse for yourself. So I would be 345 00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: cautious and circumspect about what you write to people whose 346 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: mail is being read. The other thing is with respect 347 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: to Marius in particular. Unfortunately, in order to get mail 348 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: to him, you still have to dead name him. And 349 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: if you want to hear more about that particular set 350 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: of struggles, I'm happy to talk about it, but suffice 351 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: it to say for now that if you go to 352 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: support Marius Mason dot org, there should be some instructions 353 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: about how to write to him, and I'll make sure 354 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,360 Speaker 1: that the support group puts up clear instructions. But unfortunately 355 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,239 Speaker 1: you do have to put his dead name on that 356 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,040 Speaker 1: envelope or it will not get to It's extremely frustrating, 357 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,680 Speaker 1: but yeah, it could be really annoying, especially if you're 358 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 1: trying to look for somebody using the locator and it 359 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 1: has a gender notifire and it's not the correct gender notifier, 360 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:17,360 Speaker 1: and yeah, that can be difficult, but like, yeah, it's 361 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:20,640 Speaker 1: it's an effort worth making, right, and it really can 362 00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,440 Speaker 1: help someone who's going through a difficult time. Yeah, and 363 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 1: people do have really specific interests apart from movement work 364 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 1: as well. And you know Marius paints. He sent me 365 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,600 Speaker 1: this incredible He sent me a number of paintings over 366 00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: the years. I have one actually that I think I 367 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 1: shared with you earlier, Saco and Ganzetti that he made. 368 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: He sent me a really great portrait of Jimmy Page once. 369 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,359 Speaker 1: He also recently sent me a beautiful scarf that he 370 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,680 Speaker 1: had knitted or crochet. I guess people have hobbies, people 371 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,560 Speaker 1: have interests, and they're happy to talk about those things 372 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, that's what makes us like a whole person, right, 373 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: And I think having a little bit of that helps 374 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,480 Speaker 1: you to keep that little part of yourself. But it 375 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: could be a difficult place. So yeah, people can send 376 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,680 Speaker 1: crochet letters. Should we have some clean crochet listeners. This 377 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 1: is probably the part of the podcast where we stop 378 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 1: and make ourselves amenable to capitalism by doing an ad 379 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: break one day, like what can people do on June eleventh? Right? Right? Obviously, 380 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:39,760 Speaker 1: like people should keep on this ongoing correspondence. I think 381 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,399 Speaker 1: that's really important and I would speaking to someone from 382 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,200 Speaker 1: their Leonard Peltier Free Land Peltier group the other day, 383 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: and I know a lot of people right to lend 384 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 1: a Peltier and like, I know that that's a great 385 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 1: source of like strength for him, especially as he's like 386 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 1: aging in prison. I was wondering what people could do 387 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: on June eleventh, like to sort of further discourse, spread 388 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: the word take actions to solidarity, kind of things to 389 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: people do June eleventh. Activities. You know, actions and solidarity 390 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: really run the gambit UM. You know, it's been very 391 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: popular to have like a barbecue or a benefit show 392 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: UM thanks to raise money. And then there's UM actions 393 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: that more have more in common with UM why some 394 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 1: of these people were incarcerated. Uh, And like if you 395 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,359 Speaker 1: check the website June eleven dot org, there is a 396 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: list of UM previous actions that people have taken and 397 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: the whole gambit of activities that you know, people have 398 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: participated in UM. I know, with the revitalization of this 399 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: as like an international based solidarity UM, there was an 400 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: interest in trying to think outside the box more. You know, 401 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: it's it's difficult to like, no one's going to reinvent 402 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: the wheel or you know, maybe they that's as much 403 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,879 Speaker 1: as they're doing, but um, but there is a variety 404 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 1: different activities and last year theme was sort of like 405 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: doing something different than you might normally do to just 406 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: diversify what is happening. One of my dreams for June 407 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: eleventh is for it to be an opportunity for you know, 408 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: our movement prisoners to be integrated into other things. So 409 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 1: it's you know, it doesn't have to just be oh, 410 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,640 Speaker 1: this is like the prisoner support activity or like we're 411 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:27,919 Speaker 1: just going to write letters, but you know, people do 412 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 1: things like art shows, um, like momenttioned, Like a lot 413 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 1: of people paint, a lot of people write poetry, and 414 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 1: to integrate that into like maybe already have like you know, 415 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,959 Speaker 1: a community around poetry readings or something like that, and 416 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,920 Speaker 1: just to bring that into into whatever like little corner 417 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: of the world or whatever kind of activities that we're 418 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: already involved in. For these things to like reference each other, right, 419 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 1: like we reference our prisoners and they can reference these 420 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: things that are happening outside that are like integrating them. 421 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 1: One of the things that since I've been involved, a 422 00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: lot of times we try to elicit or solicit statements 423 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: from the people we represent. I have been to a 424 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: number of really wonderful June eleventh activities that have included 425 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 1: an art show, a number of punk shows in various 426 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: people's basements. And I think as just an individual, I mean, 427 00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 1: first of all, I think it's a great opportunity to 428 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: do community building, to do letter writing. But I think 429 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: it's also something that even if you are, you know, 430 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: relatively isolated, you know, you can just make a commitment today, 431 00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: I'm going to send five bucks to somebody's commissary. Yeah, 432 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,680 Speaker 1: I think. I was looking back at one of Marius's 433 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: previous June eleventh statements and one of the things he 434 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: referred to was a civil rights attorney that he had 435 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: worked with. Was asked, you know, what does the movement 436 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:13,680 Speaker 1: need most, and he responded, everything is everything, meaning you 437 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: know anything, any advocacy that you do in one area 438 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,720 Speaker 1: will redound to the benefit of all of the rest 439 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: of us and all of the other areas. And I 440 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:24,600 Speaker 1: have found that to be true. And I have found 441 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 1: that specifically to be true even in terms of the 442 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:35,959 Speaker 1: legal effects of doing advocacy for Marius has had really 443 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: huge benefits for other trans folks who are in prison, 444 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,640 Speaker 1: who I've represented, and then doing advocacy for those folks 445 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 1: has had really incredible benefits for Marius. So I mean, 446 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 1: I think it is materially the case that you know, 447 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,440 Speaker 1: you struggle where you are, you do what you can 448 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: on June eleventh or any other day, and you know 449 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: you move the needle, yeah and gets very well. Yeah, absolutely. 450 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: You know, June eleventh is specifically for people who have 451 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: long sentences, and that's really about like the increased risk 452 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: of just kind of like falling to the back burner 453 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: as there's new like waves of struggle and UM, you know, 454 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,280 Speaker 1: new emergencies and crises all the time. This is an 455 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: opportunity to like really take a moment Tom, to really 456 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: focus on that memory. And so I hope with June 457 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: eleventh we can like kind of build bridges like generationally, 458 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,200 Speaker 1: you know, like I wasn't really around with Marius, you know, 459 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,200 Speaker 1: during the Green Scare. Marius got arrested, and it's something 460 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: that I learned about and got involved in later. UM. 461 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: And I hope that you know, with new people that 462 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,200 Speaker 1: we meet and new people who like we share projects with, UM, 463 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: we can tell them about our prisoners. And also you 464 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 1: know where where I happen to live. There's occasion I 465 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: meet somebody who used to Marius from you know, twenty 466 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,600 Speaker 1: years ago, and so kind of in both directions like 467 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: into the past and into into the future, Like, yeah, 468 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: just trying to spread awareness about these people. Yeah, I 469 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: think that's yeah. I think it's it's so important to 470 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: look at this as part of a long struggle. And 471 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: that's you know what what you and Moira are both 472 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 1: talking about in terms of it's it's building connections. It's um, 473 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,600 Speaker 1: it's kind of this like the sedimentary layer, uh, that 474 00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: that creates the actual foundation for for positive change. And 475 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, we we have there's this kind of Hollywood 476 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: brain thing I think we all have where where we 477 00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: get bent out of shape when when change doesn't kind 478 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: of come and in the form of these kind of 479 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: calamitous moments and and uh kind of culminations of struggles 480 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: and stuff. But it's it's, you know, the the process 481 00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 1: of winning is the process of like part of it 482 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: is the process of showing up for the people who 483 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: are casualties, you know, who are being who are being 484 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: who are suffering the most for it. And part of 485 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,280 Speaker 1: it is kind of the way in which that allows 486 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: you to kind of build networks of solidarity that are 487 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: the necessary foundation for continuing the struggle. Absolutely, I would 488 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: say that in the years that I've been doing this work, 489 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: one of the most important parts of it is being 490 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: really consistent in showing up for the people who are 491 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: who are being horrendously punished, because that's the only way 492 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:45,800 Speaker 1: that everybody understands that they will be taken care of. Right. 493 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: But speaking of winning, I do have an update if 494 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 1: you have a second on another June eleventh prisoner, Eric King. Yeah, 495 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: from my beloved colleague Sandy Freeman, who represented him successfully 496 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,319 Speaker 1: recently and got a not guilty verdict for him after 497 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:13,520 Speaker 1: he was charged with assaulting a corrections officer, which is, 498 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: I mean, if you know anything about federal indictments, a 499 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: magnificent coup. So Eric currently has a Clan Act conspiracy 500 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 1: and Bivens lawsuit pending against more than forty state defendants. 501 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,440 Speaker 1: His team is trying to achieve release from the ADX 502 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: via a writ of habeas corpus. He's not currently getting 503 00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:50,319 Speaker 1: access to communications, visits, or programming, but he is still 504 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:58,239 Speaker 1: strong and resilient and his recent victories are an object 505 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,760 Speaker 1: lesson in the fact that we really can fight back 506 00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:06,280 Speaker 1: and win. Please donate to his support fund and please 507 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,360 Speaker 1: uplift what is happening, because this is the future for 508 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 1: anti fascists in the Bureau of Prisons. Nevertheless, we do 509 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: continue to struggle and sometimes even to win, and I 510 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: think our stories of triumph are not frequently enough told, 511 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: and so one thing that we could do this June 512 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:30,319 Speaker 1: eleventh is try to gather all of those stories and 513 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 1: make sure that those stories do get told. I think 514 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,399 Speaker 1: it's really important, like you said, to see these little 515 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: victories and not to see it as distinct from a 516 00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: broadest struggle. Like if we want to do anarchism and 517 00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:44,400 Speaker 1: build ways of taking care of each other outside of 518 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,919 Speaker 1: the state, then we need to take care of people 519 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: who are victimized by the state, and this is part 520 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 1: of doing that. We're proving we could do it by 521 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,640 Speaker 1: doing it right. And lec Roba said, like, we're not 522 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: going to storm the Winter Palace necessarily. Yeah, we can 523 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:01,680 Speaker 1: build up are in different ways, and this is a 524 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: way of doing that. I'm thinking of like more international 525 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:09,440 Speaker 1: like cases. I know, for instance, that where I come from, 526 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: the British government fucking loves to put people who volunteered 527 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,720 Speaker 1: to fight for the YPG in prison or their parents 528 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: if they send the money for food. Which yeah, great country, 529 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:22,360 Speaker 1: but I know that like all over the world, like 530 00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 1: in Spain and Catalonia where I've lived, like this is 531 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 1: a thing too. So are there any other like international 532 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 1: cases that you want to sort of draw attention to? 533 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: Currently right now, Alfredo Cospedo in Italy is has been 534 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: on hunger strikes since October against the particularly isolating and 535 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 1: particularly repressive forty one these prison, what he calls a 536 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: non life and there so a prison that was primarily 537 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 1: used against mafia bosses. But you know, in the classic 538 00:36:53,320 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: state misinterpreting anarchism has I'm considered Alfredo a leader and 539 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: and and particularly and so locked him away UM without 540 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: access to almost any means of communication. And uh so 541 00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:12,360 Speaker 1: he's he's had a lot of health problems as a 542 00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:14,320 Speaker 1: result of this. You know, he was originally locked in 543 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 1: UM for shooting a nuclear executive in the knee after 544 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,480 Speaker 1: some particular callous remarks from him following the Fukushima disaster, 545 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:31,319 Speaker 1: and UM that nuclear companies has ties with UM like 546 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,040 Speaker 1: the you know, the larger war machine, the manufacturing of 547 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:39,879 Speaker 1: of weapons for war UM, and uh, you know, he's 548 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: he's caught other charges while being in prison for previously 549 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,560 Speaker 1: alleged activities, including just being an anarchist, essentially kind of 550 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 1: what you talked about, UM, the straight criminalizing political sensibilities. UM. 551 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: You know, Italy has been doing that. Chile has been 552 00:37:55,280 --> 00:38:01,000 Speaker 1: doing that, UM previously against people like Monica Caballero and 553 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,240 Speaker 1: Francisco Solar who have been in and out of prison 554 00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: for years now and are currently facing more charges for 555 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:16,479 Speaker 1: allegedly sending bombs to police training facilities and such down 556 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:21,320 Speaker 1: in Chile and in your own England. Toby shown is 557 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 1: someone who got out recently after being receiving terrorists charges 558 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: for allegedly being involved in an anarchist website called three 559 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: two five and financing terrorism through like accepting donations for 560 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,279 Speaker 1: their work and things like that. But he did not 561 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: get convicted of that. He usually got convicted of some 562 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 1: minor drug charges and so he's been released to kind 563 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 1: of a halfway house now, but they continue to try 564 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:55,800 Speaker 1: to mess with his terms of release because of his politics, 565 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,919 Speaker 1: because he's an anarchist and unrepentant, they continue to try 566 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 1: to mess with them. Essentially on the website you know 567 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:07,799 Speaker 1: eleven dot org. There's a page with information about a 568 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: lot of prisoners, both in the US and internationally. You 569 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: know a little bit about them. Most of them has 570 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: their address. If there's a support site with more information 571 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,279 Speaker 1: that's linked to it as well. Okay, it's a good 572 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,920 Speaker 1: pay place for people to look anything else, you guys 573 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:26,399 Speaker 1: wanted to get to to discuss issues for incost rated 574 00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: anarchist people, I guess other ways to support incos rate 575 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,359 Speaker 1: to people. I guess. I would like to remind your 576 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:36,879 Speaker 1: listeners that all prosecutions are political, and that people who 577 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:41,640 Speaker 1: are locked away in you know, the cages that are 578 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,200 Speaker 1: the federal facilities and the state and local and county 579 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:50,279 Speaker 1: facilities are all dealing with the same kinds of isolation 580 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:55,240 Speaker 1: and deprivations, and a lot of them have even less 581 00:39:55,280 --> 00:40:00,640 Speaker 1: support than some of our long term anarchists political prisoners 582 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,200 Speaker 1: and so um. You know. I understand this is a 583 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 1: a program about June eleventh, and of course I want 584 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,800 Speaker 1: to uplift June eleventh, But I would also like to 585 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,239 Speaker 1: suggest that to whatever extent you can get involved in 586 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 1: just prisoner support. Yeah, I think that more support for 587 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: more prisoners is always a good thing. Yeah, Yeah, be 588 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: in the streets in whatever by whatever means fighting the 589 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 1: society that makes prison in necessity is the longer game, right, Yeah, 590 00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 1: you know, related to to what Moe was saying, I 591 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 1: wanted to mention another long term Anicus prisoner, Michael Michael Kimball, 592 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,880 Speaker 1: who is in Alabama and just thinking about like how 593 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: how supporting him has resonated to like so many other 594 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,719 Speaker 1: people in prison in Alabama. UM, Like the way that 595 00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:00,279 Speaker 1: he has been able through the support of know, some 596 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,719 Speaker 1: of his friends on the outside, then support like so 597 00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:06,560 Speaker 1: many other queer people that he's with UM in Alabama 598 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: and been able to collectively organize and like share radical history, 599 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,920 Speaker 1: Like you know, they have a have a role in 600 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 1: it too, and our support for them can like resonate 601 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: far beyond just an individual. Yeah. I think that's a 602 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: great point. Yeah, and other things to mention, um we 603 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,920 Speaker 1: are we have a fundraising goal for Marius this year 604 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: twenty five hundred dollars. We're trying to get some bookstores 605 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 1: on board to you know, have some June eleven stickers 606 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 1: donate a little bit of money. M So go to 607 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,080 Speaker 1: your local bookstore and po shop, Red Space, etc. Nice. 608 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 1: Is there any any other resources you guys wanted to 609 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: plug social media is an I think that people can 610 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 1: follow to find out. Um. You can follow Marius's support 611 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: on Twitter at at support Marius Um. There's also an 612 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,440 Speaker 1: Instagram that I think is at support Marius Mason. I 613 00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:02,160 Speaker 1: would also like to plug the concept of not talking 614 00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:08,759 Speaker 1: to cops smart also at some social media presence. It's 615 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:14,359 Speaker 1: really only regularly active on the Mastodon account and it's 616 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:18,480 Speaker 1: just at June one one at June eleven. Yeah, that 617 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,000 Speaker 1: was fantastic, Thank you very much, guys, really appreciate you. 618 00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 1: Thank you all. It could happen here as a production 619 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,680 Speaker 1: of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 620 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,400 Speaker 1: visit our website cool zonemedia dot com or check us 621 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 1: out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 622 00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It could 623 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:43,239 Speaker 1: Happen here, updated monthly at cool zonemedia dot com slash sources. 624 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:44,080 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening.