WEBVTT - Monologue: Did OpenAI Steal Another Startup's Idea?

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<v Speaker 1>All Media. Hello and welcome to this week's Better Offline monologue.

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<v Speaker 1>I am, of course, said Zitron. Last week, Open Ai

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<v Speaker 1>abruptly pulled the promotional materials around, along with any mention

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<v Speaker 1>of it's six point four billion dollar all stock acquisition

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<v Speaker 1>of Jony Ive's Ioproducts, an AI startup that is allegedly

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<v Speaker 1>making some sort of screenless AI device with open Ai

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<v Speaker 1>that will allegedly launch next year. Said device will not

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<v Speaker 1>be according to the Wall Street Journal, it won't be

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<v Speaker 1>a phone, and I have an Aortmand's intent is to

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<v Speaker 1>help ween user some screens. I love my screen. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know why people keep thinking that's a bad thing,

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<v Speaker 1>but anyway, it turns out the reason that they did

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<v Speaker 1>this is that a company called Io sued Ioproducts Open

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<v Speaker 1>Ai Sam Altman and I quote Sir Jonathan Paul Ive

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<v Speaker 1>Johnny Ive, I just want a name on June ninth,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty five, for trademark infringement, unfair competition, and unfair

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<v Speaker 1>business practices. Io also makes the case that these violations

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<v Speaker 1>weren't a simply unhappy coincidence, but rather a deliberate action.

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<v Speaker 1>A judge granted the temporary restraining order on June twenty

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<v Speaker 1>to twenty twenty five that stops Ioproducts and open Ai

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<v Speaker 1>from using its name, which has obviously put the brakes

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<v Speaker 1>on Aortman's attempt to hype this acquisition, which he had

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<v Speaker 1>previously leaked to The Wall Street Journal, could add a

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<v Speaker 1>trillion dollars to the company's valuation, which is of course bullshit.

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<v Speaker 1>At this point, I'm going to start calling Ioproducts, by

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<v Speaker 1>which I mean open Ai is soon to be maybe

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<v Speaker 1>acquired hardware wing the defendants because Io, by which I

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<v Speaker 1>mean the starthub in question, sounds literally the same. Io

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<v Speaker 1>has been referring to a device that they're making as

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<v Speaker 1>a computer without a screen since according to an archive

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<v Speaker 1>version of their website I found at least April second,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty five. The defendants argued in their response to

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<v Speaker 1>Io's complaint that they made changes only after seeing Ioproducts.

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<v Speaker 1>So Jony ivesting Johnny, I fucking don't care and their

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<v Speaker 1>thing when they launched, and this is before they filed

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<v Speaker 1>the complaint, which is actually true anyway, Who are these people? So?

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<v Speaker 1>Io was founded in March twenty eighteen, is part of

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<v Speaker 1>Google X, which is effectively Google's internal skunk Works R

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<v Speaker 1>and D division, and was spun out as an independent

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<v Speaker 1>company in August twenty twenty one, raising a further thirty

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<v Speaker 1>seven point two million dollars on top of the twenty

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<v Speaker 1>five million dollars Google had already provided. I always been

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<v Speaker 1>preparing for launch ever since. They've had an audiologist to

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<v Speaker 1>prove thing. I think that's come out since. But the

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<v Speaker 1>Io one device, the thing that's really the thing that

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about here, which is an ear worn screenless

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<v Speaker 1>computer that's meant to have launched already take a run,

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<v Speaker 1>said it with launching Winter twenty twenty four in twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty four, and of course it hasn't, and the current

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<v Speaker 1>store page says it will launch in August twenty twenty five.

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<v Speaker 1>But bugger me, I don't know how they possibly raise money.

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<v Speaker 1>Now there is a company, possibly owned by open Ai,

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<v Speaker 1>that has the same name that might do the same thing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not great, and it doesn't get better for the

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<v Speaker 1>defendants because Io also owns a trademark one that covers

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<v Speaker 1>ever everything from audio head phones, microcomputers, downloadable mobile operating

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<v Speaker 1>system software a bunch of other things that would make

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<v Speaker 1>it very easy to mistake the defendant's announcement. Well for

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<v Speaker 1>Io and the Io one, I mean they have the

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<v Speaker 1>same fucking name. They have the same name. They have

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<v Speaker 1>the same name. Now, one might think this is all

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<v Speaker 1>a weird coincidence, except it very well might not be.

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<v Speaker 1>According to Io's complaint, representatives from Sam Moltman's Apollo Projects,

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<v Speaker 1>one of his many venture capital firms, met with the

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<v Speaker 1>company multiple times, receiving technical information and the vision for

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<v Speaker 1>the product, along with demonstrations of whatever they had at

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<v Speaker 1>the time. Weirdly enough, in April twenty twenty two, Io

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<v Speaker 1>was also introduced to Johnny Ive's design firm love From

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<v Speaker 1>to talk about a potential partnership, one that loved From

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<v Speaker 1>eventually declined. Important detail love From also works with open Ai.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if they'd started at that point. In

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty two, Io also attempted to hire Evans Hanky

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<v Speaker 1>as their head of design. Great name there, and basically

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<v Speaker 1>the air apparent to Johnny. I've at Apple and I've left,

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<v Speaker 1>except Hanky left to join. I've on a product sounds

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<v Speaker 1>the same. I just fucking hate these people, Hanky declined,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the defendant's reply, framed the conversation as Hanky

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<v Speaker 1>taking a favor for a friend, just talking to someone. Nevertheless,

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<v Speaker 1>Hanky went on to co found the defendant's version of

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<v Speaker 1>Ioproducts in twenty twenty three. Also, a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>defendant's arguments are yeah, I was just being nice. I

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<v Speaker 1>was just meeting with them because they were nice, because

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<v Speaker 1>Altman himself said on Twitter, Oh, I meet with founders

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<v Speaker 1>all the time. Do you do they have the same

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<v Speaker 1>fucking name as the companies you're buying? Jesus Christ. In

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty five, Io chose to reach out to Sam

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<v Speaker 1>Mortman to invest and got the response that Aortman was

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<v Speaker 1>and I quote working on something competitive and that he

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<v Speaker 1>would and I quote again respectfully pass, before adding that

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<v Speaker 1>the company was called Io Products and that Johnny I've

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<v Speaker 1>was driving this, which is also a quote. Otherwise, multiple

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<v Speaker 1>people that work for the defendants identically named company went

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<v Speaker 1>on to try Io's current product, as well as received

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<v Speaker 1>demonstrations of the upcoming Io one device as screen this

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<v Speaker 1>computer that you control with your voice. I also that

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<v Speaker 1>there were multiple meetings of Open Ai representatives and Altman

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<v Speaker 1>himself about an acquisition, though emails that Altman has publicly

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<v Speaker 1>shared make it seem more like a friendly gesture this time,

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<v Speaker 1>and I would buy that to an extent. On the

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<v Speaker 1>announcement of the deal to acquire Ives Company in May,

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<v Speaker 1>Io CEO Jason Rugolo, Rugolo reached out to Waltman again

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<v Speaker 1>to see you about partnering or maybe an acquisition, eventually

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<v Speaker 1>bringing up that there was an obvious similarity between the names.

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<v Speaker 1>He used the words rut Row, which if I was

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<v Speaker 1>in a high stakes corporate negotiation, I would not speak

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<v Speaker 1>like Scooby Doo. Now. The defendants frame Rugolo and Io's

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<v Speaker 1>meetings as a generosity in their part, and their generosity

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<v Speaker 1>was so profound that they chose to meet with Io

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<v Speaker 1>at least five times over the course of three years.

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<v Speaker 1>For whatever reason, both Altman and Rugolo are choosing to

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<v Speaker 1>post about this publicly, and both of them seem like

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<v Speaker 1>huge assholes. Rgalo also posted I have not, nor have

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<v Speaker 1>I ever been suicidal on Twitter, and I must add

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not a lawyer, but some legal don't post that

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<v Speaker 1>or anything. Don't ever if you're in a lawsuit, don't

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<v Speaker 1>go fucking posting about the lawsuit. I don't care if

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<v Speaker 1>you're some guy or your Sam Altman you shouldn't be

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<v Speaker 1>doing that. It's just very frustrating to watch as talking

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<v Speaker 1>to a friend of the show case of Kagawa about this,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think it gave him madness, which is good

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<v Speaker 1>because I like to share it with people. Nevertheless, the

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<v Speaker 1>judge order that the defendant sees using the name Ioproducts

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<v Speaker 1>until a hearing is held in October, and in general

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<v Speaker 1>judges are hesitant to make this kind of ruling with

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<v Speaker 1>that sincere belief that the case says merit. But in summary,

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<v Speaker 1>this suit alligious that representatives of Sam Altman, Johnny Ive

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<v Speaker 1>and their respective firms Ioproducts, Love From Apollo Projects and

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<v Speaker 1>Open Ai repeatedly met with io as in Jason Roguolo's

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<v Speaker 1>company as a means of learning more about the intellectual

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<v Speaker 1>property and design of its products, going as far as

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<v Speaker 1>to suggest that they may partner with invest in or

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<v Speaker 1>consider acquiring the company. Keep thinking of like a Jason

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<v Speaker 1>Derulo bit with Rugulo, but I don't know how to

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<v Speaker 1>say his name proper. At this point, I'm several minutes

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<v Speaker 1>into recording them. Mogue, someone else do the funny. But

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<v Speaker 1>to me, something about this whole thing feels fishy on

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<v Speaker 1>both counts. The defendant's argument is that these meetings were

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<v Speaker 1>harmless roaming Rogulo and Iowa's desperate counterparties with the device

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<v Speaker 1>stuck in development hell begging open Ai and Sam Mormon

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<v Speaker 1>to invest in or acquire them, which is compelling. Ish

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<v Speaker 1>the emails that Sam Worman shared publicly, and I'll have

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<v Speaker 1>these in the notes, they don't make mister Jason look

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<v Speaker 1>particularly good. They make him look a little desperate. But

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<v Speaker 1>the same time, and I know this from talking to

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<v Speaker 1>various founders about like money is, you generally don't go

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<v Speaker 1>in heart and the bigger they are, they get it

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<v Speaker 1>kind of glad handle them a little bit because you

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to piss them off. It's basic business. So

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<v Speaker 1>he could have just been being nice. I would actually

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<v Speaker 1>buy this. I would also buy the defendant's argument, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think it would have a lot more weight if

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't for the fact that they'd met with IO

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<v Speaker 1>so many fucking times and their goddamn name is identical.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, what makes this entire thing so ridiculous is

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<v Speaker 1>that Altman and I could have named their startup literally

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<v Speaker 1>anything else, and none of this would have happened. They

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<v Speaker 1>could have named it Burger Inc. And it would have

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<v Speaker 1>been fine. IO would never have sued them if they

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<v Speaker 1>were called but Burger Inc. I don't know what they're doing.

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<v Speaker 1>But I guess the creator of the world's biggest plagiarism

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<v Speaker 1>machine couldn't fucking help himself. Well, the emails that Altman

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<v Speaker 1>has shared publicly do make Rigolo's sound a bit cloying

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<v Speaker 1>and don't feel like things you'd send somebody you have

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<v Speaker 1>a deep relationship with, like they feel like new conversations

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<v Speaker 1>and very generic. Io claims that there have been multiple

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<v Speaker 1>other calls and emails, and I imagine those will come

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<v Speaker 1>out and discovery, which is the part of the lawsuit

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<v Speaker 1>where everybody has to share emails and communications. Yet, for me,

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<v Speaker 1>the most damning part is the involvement of Johnny Ive's

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<v Speaker 1>love from in twenty twenty two. Almand's absolutely a gadfly,

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<v Speaker 1>and I would buy the idea that he'd meet with

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<v Speaker 1>random people doing an AI star up. There is a

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<v Speaker 1>history there of him randomly responding to people and meeting

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<v Speaker 1>up with them. Sure, whatever, but why was Johnny Ive's

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<v Speaker 1>design for meeting with Io in twenty twenty two, a

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<v Speaker 1>year before he'd found a company with the same name

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<v Speaker 1>that does something really similar sounding in roughly the same

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<v Speaker 1>timeframe that Sam Altan was meeting with them. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>Sam Ortman's represented. This isn't that a weird I mean

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<v Speaker 1>it is. It's extremely weird. Why you just this friendly?

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<v Speaker 1>You just love hanging out This Jason guy doesn't seem

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<v Speaker 1>like he's doing well. Is he really charming? Is he

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<v Speaker 1>fun to hang out with? Jason? Hit me up, baby,

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<v Speaker 1>let's hang out. Actually, don't do that. You're at a

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<v Speaker 1>really big lawsuit. I don't want to fucking talk to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Stop posting. In any case, this fascal situation will ground

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<v Speaker 1>open AI's hardware efforts to a halt for a little bit,

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<v Speaker 1>at least until at least for a month. But they

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<v Speaker 1>could just rebrand. It's like but Burger, Inc. Maybe, but

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<v Speaker 1>just throwing that out there, call me Sam and if

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<v Speaker 1>you use that name, I'm suing you too. And while

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<v Speaker 1>they could come up with a new name such as

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<v Speaker 1>butt Burger, any details of the product that leg or

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<v Speaker 1>announced will now face unbelievable scrutiny, if not by the

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<v Speaker 1>tech press, but by me and Io's lawyers, because that's

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<v Speaker 1>the thing. They chose this name, and changing the name

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<v Speaker 1>will not hide the fact that they knew some stuff

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<v Speaker 1>about Io's products, me and the plaintiff in this lawsuit.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the other thing. The name is so similar, man,

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<v Speaker 1>you couldn't have come up with any and their claiming,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, oh Io refers to input output, which

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<v Speaker 1>is true. But fuck mate, could you not have come

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<v Speaker 1>up with anything else? Any other name? But Burger? I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know. I'm going to say that at least one

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<v Speaker 1>more time before the end of the episode in but Burger.

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<v Speaker 1>There you go. Anyway, this whole thing is fucking stupid.

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<v Speaker 1>I find both sides of the situation very annoying. And

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<v Speaker 1>it's also important to note that Open Eye is yet

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<v Speaker 1>to buy io products, you know, the Johnny I've startup,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's currently in the process of trying to convince

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<v Speaker 1>Microsoft to let them become a for profit company, which

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<v Speaker 1>I will get to probably in next week's monologue. Until then,

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to say that everybody in this situation

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<v Speaker 1>kind of fucking sucks.