1 00:00:01,800 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: All Media. Hello and welcome to this week's Better Offline monologue. 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: I am, of course, said Zitron. Last week, Open Ai 3 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: abruptly pulled the promotional materials around, along with any mention 4 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: of it's six point four billion dollar all stock acquisition 5 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: of Jony Ive's Ioproducts, an AI startup that is allegedly 6 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,480 Speaker 1: making some sort of screenless AI device with open Ai 7 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: that will allegedly launch next year. Said device will not 8 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: be according to the Wall Street Journal, it won't be 9 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 1: a phone, and I have an Aortmand's intent is to 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: help ween user some screens. I love my screen. I 11 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: don't know why people keep thinking that's a bad thing, 12 00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:47,319 Speaker 1: but anyway, it turns out the reason that they did 13 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,880 Speaker 1: this is that a company called Io sued Ioproducts Open 14 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 1: Ai Sam Altman and I quote Sir Jonathan Paul Ive 15 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,639 Speaker 1: Johnny Ive, I just want a name on June ninth, 16 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:04,000 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, for trademark infringement, unfair competition, and unfair 17 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: business practices. Io also makes the case that these violations 18 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 1: weren't a simply unhappy coincidence, but rather a deliberate action. 19 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 1: A judge granted the temporary restraining order on June twenty 20 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: to twenty twenty five that stops Ioproducts and open Ai 21 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: from using its name, which has obviously put the brakes 22 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: on Aortman's attempt to hype this acquisition, which he had 23 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: previously leaked to The Wall Street Journal, could add a 24 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: trillion dollars to the company's valuation, which is of course bullshit. 25 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: At this point, I'm going to start calling Ioproducts, by 26 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 1: which I mean open Ai is soon to be maybe 27 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: acquired hardware wing the defendants because Io, by which I 28 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: mean the starthub in question, sounds literally the same. Io 29 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: has been referring to a device that they're making as 30 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 1: a computer without a screen since according to an archive 31 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: version of their website I found at least April second, 32 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. The defendants argued in their response to 33 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: Io's complaint that they made changes only after seeing Ioproducts. 34 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: So Jony ivesting Johnny, I fucking don't care and their 35 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,720 Speaker 1: thing when they launched, and this is before they filed 36 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 1: the complaint, which is actually true anyway, Who are these people? So? 37 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: Io was founded in March twenty eighteen, is part of 38 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: Google X, which is effectively Google's internal skunk Works R 39 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,920 Speaker 1: and D division, and was spun out as an independent 40 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 1: company in August twenty twenty one, raising a further thirty 41 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 1: seven point two million dollars on top of the twenty 42 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 1: five million dollars Google had already provided. I always been 43 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: preparing for launch ever since. They've had an audiologist to 44 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: prove thing. I think that's come out since. But the 45 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: Io one device, the thing that's really the thing that 46 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about here, which is an ear worn screenless 47 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: computer that's meant to have launched already take a run, 48 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: said it with launching Winter twenty twenty four in twenty 49 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: twenty four, and of course it hasn't, and the current 50 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: store page says it will launch in August twenty twenty five. 51 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 1: But bugger me, I don't know how they possibly raise money. 52 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 1: Now there is a company, possibly owned by open Ai, 53 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,519 Speaker 1: that has the same name that might do the same thing. 54 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: It's not great, and it doesn't get better for the 55 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,800 Speaker 1: defendants because Io also owns a trademark one that covers 56 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 1: ever everything from audio head phones, microcomputers, downloadable mobile operating 57 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: system software a bunch of other things that would make 58 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 1: it very easy to mistake the defendant's announcement. Well for 59 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: Io and the Io one, I mean they have the 60 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 1: same fucking name. They have the same name. They have 61 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: the same name. Now, one might think this is all 62 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: a weird coincidence, except it very well might not be. 63 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: According to Io's complaint, representatives from Sam Moltman's Apollo Projects, 64 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: one of his many venture capital firms, met with the 65 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: company multiple times, receiving technical information and the vision for 66 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: the product, along with demonstrations of whatever they had at 67 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: the time. Weirdly enough, in April twenty twenty two, Io 68 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: was also introduced to Johnny Ive's design firm love From 69 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: to talk about a potential partnership, one that loved From 70 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: eventually declined. Important detail love From also works with open Ai. 71 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: I don't know if they'd started at that point. In 72 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, Io also attempted to hire Evans Hanky 73 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: as their head of design. Great name there, and basically 74 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: the air apparent to Johnny. I've at Apple and I've left, 75 00:03:56,680 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 1: except Hanky left to join. I've on a product sounds 76 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 1: the same. I just fucking hate these people, Hanky declined, 77 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: and in the defendant's reply, framed the conversation as Hanky 78 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: taking a favor for a friend, just talking to someone. Nevertheless, 79 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 1: Hanky went on to co found the defendant's version of 80 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: Ioproducts in twenty twenty three. Also, a lot of the 81 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 1: defendant's arguments are yeah, I was just being nice. I 82 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 1: was just meeting with them because they were nice, because 83 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: Altman himself said on Twitter, Oh, I meet with founders 84 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: all the time. Do you do they have the same 85 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 1: fucking name as the companies you're buying? Jesus Christ. In 86 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, Io chose to reach out to Sam 87 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: Mortman to invest and got the response that Aortman was 88 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: and I quote working on something competitive and that he 89 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: would and I quote again respectfully pass, before adding that 90 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: the company was called Io Products and that Johnny I've 91 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: was driving this, which is also a quote. Otherwise, multiple 92 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: people that work for the defendants identically named company went 93 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: on to try Io's current product, as well as received 94 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: demonstrations of the upcoming Io one device as screen this 95 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: computer that you control with your voice. I also that 96 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: there were multiple meetings of Open Ai representatives and Altman 97 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: himself about an acquisition, though emails that Altman has publicly 98 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: shared make it seem more like a friendly gesture this time, 99 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: and I would buy that to an extent. On the 100 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: announcement of the deal to acquire Ives Company in May, 101 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: Io CEO Jason Rugolo, Rugolo reached out to Waltman again 102 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: to see you about partnering or maybe an acquisition, eventually 103 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: bringing up that there was an obvious similarity between the names. 104 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: He used the words rut Row, which if I was 105 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: in a high stakes corporate negotiation, I would not speak 106 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: like Scooby Doo. Now. The defendants frame Rugolo and Io's 107 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: meetings as a generosity in their part, and their generosity 108 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 1: was so profound that they chose to meet with Io 109 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: at least five times over the course of three years. 110 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: For whatever reason, both Altman and Rugolo are choosing to 111 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,080 Speaker 1: post about this publicly, and both of them seem like 112 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: huge assholes. Rgalo also posted I have not, nor have 113 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 1: I ever been suicidal on Twitter, and I must add 114 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer, but some legal don't post that 115 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: or anything. Don't ever if you're in a lawsuit, don't 116 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: go fucking posting about the lawsuit. I don't care if 117 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,159 Speaker 1: you're some guy or your Sam Altman you shouldn't be 118 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: doing that. It's just very frustrating to watch as talking 119 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 1: to a friend of the show case of Kagawa about this, 120 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: and I think it gave him madness, which is good 121 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: because I like to share it with people. Nevertheless, the 122 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,919 Speaker 1: judge order that the defendant sees using the name Ioproducts 123 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,679 Speaker 1: until a hearing is held in October, and in general 124 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: judges are hesitant to make this kind of ruling with 125 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 1: that sincere belief that the case says merit. But in summary, 126 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 1: this suit alligious that representatives of Sam Altman, Johnny Ive 127 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: and their respective firms Ioproducts, Love From Apollo Projects and 128 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: Open Ai repeatedly met with io as in Jason Roguolo's 129 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: company as a means of learning more about the intellectual 130 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,640 Speaker 1: property and design of its products, going as far as 131 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: to suggest that they may partner with invest in or 132 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: consider acquiring the company. Keep thinking of like a Jason 133 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: Derulo bit with Rugulo, but I don't know how to 134 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: say his name proper. At this point, I'm several minutes 135 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: into recording them. Mogue, someone else do the funny. But 136 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: to me, something about this whole thing feels fishy on 137 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: both counts. The defendant's argument is that these meetings were 138 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: harmless roaming Rogulo and Iowa's desperate counterparties with the device 139 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,119 Speaker 1: stuck in development hell begging open Ai and Sam Mormon 140 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: to invest in or acquire them, which is compelling. Ish 141 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: the emails that Sam Worman shared publicly, and I'll have 142 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: these in the notes, they don't make mister Jason look 143 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: particularly good. They make him look a little desperate. But 144 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: the same time, and I know this from talking to 145 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: various founders about like money is, you generally don't go 146 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: in heart and the bigger they are, they get it 147 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: kind of glad handle them a little bit because you 148 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: don't want to piss them off. It's basic business. So 149 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: he could have just been being nice. I would actually 150 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 1: buy this. I would also buy the defendant's argument, and 151 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: I think it would have a lot more weight if 152 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: it wasn't for the fact that they'd met with IO 153 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: so many fucking times and their goddamn name is identical. 154 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: In fact, what makes this entire thing so ridiculous is 155 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: that Altman and I could have named their startup literally 156 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 1: anything else, and none of this would have happened. They 157 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: could have named it Burger Inc. And it would have 158 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: been fine. IO would never have sued them if they 159 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: were called but Burger Inc. I don't know what they're doing. 160 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: But I guess the creator of the world's biggest plagiarism 161 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,119 Speaker 1: machine couldn't fucking help himself. Well, the emails that Altman 162 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: has shared publicly do make Rigolo's sound a bit cloying 163 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: and don't feel like things you'd send somebody you have 164 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 1: a deep relationship with, like they feel like new conversations 165 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: and very generic. Io claims that there have been multiple 166 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 1: other calls and emails, and I imagine those will come 167 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: out and discovery, which is the part of the lawsuit 168 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: where everybody has to share emails and communications. Yet, for me, 169 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: the most damning part is the involvement of Johnny Ive's 170 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: love from in twenty twenty two. Almand's absolutely a gadfly, 171 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: and I would buy the idea that he'd meet with 172 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 1: random people doing an AI star up. There is a 173 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 1: history there of him randomly responding to people and meeting 174 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: up with them. Sure, whatever, but why was Johnny Ive's 175 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: design for meeting with Io in twenty twenty two, a 176 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: year before he'd found a company with the same name 177 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: that does something really similar sounding in roughly the same 178 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: timeframe that Sam Altan was meeting with them. I mean, 179 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: Sam Ortman's represented. This isn't that a weird I mean 180 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: it is. It's extremely weird. Why you just this friendly? 181 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,360 Speaker 1: You just love hanging out This Jason guy doesn't seem 182 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: like he's doing well. Is he really charming? Is he 183 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: fun to hang out with? Jason? Hit me up, baby, 184 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: let's hang out. Actually, don't do that. You're at a 185 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: really big lawsuit. I don't want to fucking talk to you. 186 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 1: Stop posting. In any case, this fascal situation will ground 187 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 1: open AI's hardware efforts to a halt for a little bit, 188 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: at least until at least for a month. But they 189 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: could just rebrand. It's like but Burger, Inc. Maybe, but 190 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: just throwing that out there, call me Sam and if 191 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: you use that name, I'm suing you too. And while 192 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: they could come up with a new name such as 193 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: butt Burger, any details of the product that leg or 194 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: announced will now face unbelievable scrutiny, if not by the 195 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: tech press, but by me and Io's lawyers, because that's 196 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,959 Speaker 1: the thing. They chose this name, and changing the name 197 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: will not hide the fact that they knew some stuff 198 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: about Io's products, me and the plaintiff in this lawsuit. 199 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: That's the other thing. The name is so similar, man, 200 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: you couldn't have come up with any and their claiming, 201 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: by the way, oh Io refers to input output, which 202 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 1: is true. But fuck mate, could you not have come 203 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 1: up with anything else? Any other name? But Burger? I 204 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: don't know. I'm going to say that at least one 205 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 1: more time before the end of the episode in but Burger. 206 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: There you go. Anyway, this whole thing is fucking stupid. 207 00:10:22,080 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 1: I find both sides of the situation very annoying. And 208 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: it's also important to note that Open Eye is yet 209 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: to buy io products, you know, the Johnny I've startup, 210 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: and it's currently in the process of trying to convince 211 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: Microsoft to let them become a for profit company, which 212 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: I will get to probably in next week's monologue. Until then, 213 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: I just want to say that everybody in this situation 214 00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:49,920 Speaker 1: kind of fucking sucks.