WEBVTT - Building the best team ever, with David Burkus 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:09.240 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning, 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:14.040 This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:17.720 Today's episode is going to be a longer one part 0:00:17.720 --> 0:00:20.720 of the series where I interview fascinating people about how 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.680 they take their days from great to awesome and any 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:26.320 advice they have for the rest of us. So today 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:28.840 I am delighted to welcome David Burkis to the show. 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:31.720 David is the author of several best selling business books, 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.479 including Best Team Ever and Friend of a Friend. He 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.560 speaks on leadership topics to all sorts of audiences. So, David, 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:39.520 welcome to the show. 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:41.159 Oh, thank you so much for having me. 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:43.559 Yeah, excited to have you on. So why don't you 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:45.240 tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:48.680 Yeah? I mean how far back do we want to go? Right? Right? 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:50.120 Far? Do you want to go? 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.800 Right? Yes? So I was born No, just kidding, I 0:00:53.880 --> 0:00:56.560 was an organization I'm or organizational scholars by training. I 0:00:56.560 --> 0:00:58.600 was a business school professor for about ten years. I've 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:03.320 always been fascinated with teams and human connections and network 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.880 dynamics and that sort of a thing, And around twenty 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.600 thirteen twenty fourteen started to write more less for an 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.240 academic audience and more for practitioners, and that led to 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.280 invitations to speak and to consult and what have you. 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:18.320 And then around COVID. You know, everyone's life got really 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:22.240 really difficult in COVID, but I started to get a 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:24.440 whole lot more. Hey can you do this webinar for 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:26.480 our people? Can you design this whole training? Et cetera, 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:29.720 et cetera. So when university said, hey, we're bringing classes 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.640 back in person, I basically said, no, I'm not going 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:34.400 to be there. I'm going to be doing this other stuff. 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.160 So I made the leap into doing that full time, 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:38.920 I guess about five years ago. Now, wow, wow, that 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:42.000 seems weird. And it's just absolutely loving it. I mean, 0:01:42.000 --> 0:01:45.080 it's fun to teach the next generation of business folks 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.000 how to create a better working environment, how to have 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:48.600 better teams, but it's a whole lot more fun to 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:50.920 teach the people who can go apply it later that day. Right, 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:52.200 So absolutely loving it. 0:01:52.440 --> 0:01:56.080 I absolutely love the practical ideas one can can do today. 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:57.920 And a lot of your recent work, as you said, 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:00.120 has been on teams. 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:03.680 Recent book a best team Ever? I guess what actually 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:06.560 makes something the best team ever? The high promise. 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.600 Yeah right, absolutely, So when you look at the research, 0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:13.040 you find that culture plays a much larger role than 0:02:13.080 --> 0:02:15.760 you would anticipate. I mean, I don't mean to diminish 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.160 things like talent, getting the people with the best knowledge, skills, 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:21.880 and abilities, et cetera. Talent's great, but we've all probably 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.160 seen that example of putting a talented player on just 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:26.760 a terrible team and watching the team sort of degrade 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:29.400 them down. So if you can get high talented people, great, 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:32.440 but more importantly, work on a culture that helps turn 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.800 talent into performance. And in particular in the book, we 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:38.840 outline kind of three areas where high performing teams shine 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.080 in the habits and norms of behavior that they have. Well, 0:02:41.280 --> 0:02:44.160 one is how much common understanding or shared understanding they have. 0:02:44.280 --> 0:02:46.359 So I know my role, but I also know enough 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:49.440 about everybody else in the team, not just their technical roles, 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.440 but also their personality where we connect and overlap, I 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.240 can kind of predict their behavior from it. The second 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.959 element is a sense of psychological safety. So I understand 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.760 how to help build candor on the team. I understand 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.200 what somebody who's speaking up because they disagree looks like, 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:07.920 and I give them the space to do that. I 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:12.679 even psychological safety even responds to how we embrace failure, right, 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:15.880 And so you tap into much a bigger growth mindset 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:17.560 on a team when you can talk about fairs in 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:19.639 a way that doesn't just sort of like punish everybody 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:21.960 and have them diminish it. And then the third element, 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:24.120 the third kind of norm, is that these teams constantly 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.760 remind themselves of their purpose, but not purpose as like 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:29.280 why we do what we do. We actually in the 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.080 book call it pro social purpose. They're reminded of who 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.720 is served by the work that you're doing, and that 0:03:34.800 --> 0:03:37.480 not only increases motivation, but there's a lot of recent 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:41.080 research that suggests that that increases the amount of team 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.440 work behaviors on a team, right, because when you know 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:46.520 that you're doing this for someone else, you're much more 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:48.720 likely to put your own ego aside and do what 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:50.960 the team needs in order to get that person served 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.520 to the highest level. And so that's it common understanding 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.960 psychological safety and pro social purpose. That's the easy answer 0:03:56.960 --> 0:03:58.240 to what makes for those best teams? 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.560 Ever, Yeah, that sounds great. Here's a sort of practical question. 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:03.480 How big is the best team? 0:04:03.520 --> 0:04:03.760 Ever? 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:05.320 I mean, I know that we don't always get to 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.800 decide this, but is there is there a sweet spot 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.200 where where it's easier to get those three things? 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:10.400 Then? 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:10.800 Yeah? 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.040 Yeah, So generally, I mean, obviously if we're talking about 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:15.720 work teams, if we're talking about a sports team, it's 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.359 as big as you know, there are positions right right 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.040 Generally in the day to day work like what we do, 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:23.920 large teams do suck. The sweet spot tends to be 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:27.000 between about six and eight members of the team. After that, 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.359 it becomes really hard to keep one conversation in meetings. 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:32.480 It becomes really hard to keep one sense of clarity, 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:34.640 and you may actually be better off thinking of it 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:36.680 as like, let's break the team. If you've got a 0:04:36.720 --> 0:04:39.000 team of fourteen people, it might actually be better to 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:39.960 have two teams of seven. 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:42.400 Yeah. Yeah, I know that's going to say. It's sort 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:43.200 of like a dinner party. 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:46.240 Yeah, six to eight is the right number past that 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:49.680 you've got two conversations going at the table. But you know, 0:04:50.000 --> 0:04:52.839 let's say that somebody has a team that you know, 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.040 they're listening to this and they're managing a team and 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:58.520 they would like to make people feel, you know, more cohesive. 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.359 Is there something they can to try, you know, today 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:03.760 or tomorrow to make that happen. 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.119 Yeah, I mean I'll give you the in depth answer 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:08.040 and then maybe I'll give you us a smaller answer. 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.760 My favorite activity to run teams through is this activity 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.000 we call the Manual of Me. And it's exactly what 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:15.640 it sounds like, writing the user's manual to what it's 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.320 like to work for you, with you or for you? 0:05:18.320 --> 0:05:20.200 You know, what are your strengths and weaknesses? Where are 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:23.039 the opportunities you tend to contribute. I typically when I 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.240 work with a team, I come to them with four 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:27.080 questions that have to be answered, and then I let 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:29.479 them ask whatever else they want. But we kind of 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.720 start with four fill in the blank questions. I'm at 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:35.080 my best when blank, and I'm at my worst win 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:38.200 blank or one and two, which are strength to weaknesses questions, 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:41.479 but also like context questions. Right, some people are at 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:43.400 their best when they're at their office being social, other 0:05:43.400 --> 0:05:45.400 people when they're in like monk mode at home, right, 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:47.719 So we want to know that. And then the third 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.120 and fourth questions are you can count on me too, 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:53.039 meaning historically, this is where I make contributions to the team. 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:55.360 This is where I help most often I'm a whiz 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.080 with Excel formulas or something like that. Right, And then 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:00.280 the fourth question is what I need from you is 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.160 meaning this is where I've historically needed help. And it's 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.280 funny because I give people those questions and the most 0:06:05.279 --> 0:06:08.039 common reaction I get is somebody goes, well, I don't 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:10.000 even know the answers of that for myself, Like, great, well, 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:13.320 you've got a week to reflect and kind of figure 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:15.600 it out, and then we come back together and share 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.880 out those answers, leave some time for discussion. It's like 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:20.400 what I like in it too, is it's like taking 0:06:20.520 --> 0:06:24.080 the most in depth personality differences test you could take. 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.279 Whether you want to call that disc or Myers Briggs 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.520 or whatever. You're paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:33.520 a multinational site wide license to administer and doing it 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:35.280 for free. First of all, you could just steal those 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:37.600 questions feel free too, and you get the same level 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:40.680 of conversation about differences and about appreciation for how people 0:06:40.720 --> 0:06:42.599 are and how we're going to change the way we 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.920 collaborate based on this information. So that's like, my that's 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:48.160 my favorite. You probably can't do that tomorrow. You could 0:06:48.240 --> 0:06:50.000 start tomorrow, but you're gonna have to give them some 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.080 time to it. But you also, if you wanted to, 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:54.960 can sneak those questions into regular meetings. Right, Those are 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:58.239 like good ice breakers instead of saying what's your favorite movie? 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.200 Which is helpful to know, those are real questions around 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:03.000 how you work. So just pick one and ask one 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.040 per week, and that's something you could do tomorrow. 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.760 Yeah, David, what's your fun fact? When somebody asks you 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:09.920 your fun fact about you? As an icebreaker? 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.440 My fun fact, I've actually spent the last nineteen years 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:16.920 training in this really esoteric martial art called Brazilian jiu jitsu. 0:07:17.000 --> 0:07:18.960 That's my fun fact that I go through. 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:21.560 Fun fact. Yeah, exactly. Well, we may come back to that. 0:07:21.560 --> 0:07:23.640 All right, welcome to it a little bit. 0:07:23.680 --> 0:07:26.840 But I'm curious. What do people get wrong about team building? 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.840 I am sure you've seen some atrocious team building over 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:30.600 the years. 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.480 Yeah. I mean, the biggest thing I tell people is 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.360 team building is not an activity. It's a habit. It's 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:38.280 not a one off thing. The biggest thing people get 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:40.920 wrong it's like, oh, great, we're gonna do this activity. 0:07:40.960 --> 0:07:43.640 We're gonna all rank the items we need in the 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.120 metaphorical shipwreck, like you've done that activity, right, or we're 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:50.320 gonna use these wooden planks to cross the imaginary river 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:52.400 and then magically that's going to turn us into a team. 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.520 The research is really clear on this. Then unless you 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:57.200 have that. That's not to say don't do any of 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.600 these activities, but unless you have an active and then 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:04.440 a conversation about how what we learned in that activity 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:07.320 translates into day to day behaviors I can hold people 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.280 accountable to you don't see any lasting change from those 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:13.240 team building activities, So it's much more about the habit. 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.880 And so to me, I don't know. Maybe I'm just 0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:18.400 no fun right, Maybe I'm a spoil sport. Maybe, but 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:20.520 I just find it more useful to jump jump into 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:22.280 something like the Manual of Me and like, let's just 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.880 jump to the conversation about habits and norms instead of 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.120 have to do the activity first. Right, So that's me. 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:29.280 It turns out that a trust fall does not in 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.640 fact make you trust your team members. 0:08:31.960 --> 0:08:36.600 Yeah no, no, not not at all. It felt great 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.040 at summer camp when we were all like nine, but now. 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.160 Yeah, past that, not so much. 0:08:41.280 --> 0:08:42.880 All right, Well, we're going to take a quick ad break, 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:52.040 and then I'll be back with more from David Burkis. Well, 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.240 I am back talking with David burkis Is, the author 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.360 of several business books, including Best Team Ever. We've been 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.880 talking about some ways to make your team a better team. 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:03.240 You're also the author of a book called Friend or 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:04.920 a Friend, which, and I know a lot of people 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:06.840 are listening to say, like, oh, no, networking not that 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:10.959 so right up there with team building in terms of 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:11.600 how much we. 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:13.760 Enjot me, I've just go right after all the things 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:15.240 we hate about work, all. 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:15.800 The fun stuff. 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:17.920 So what you know, somebody's listening to this and you're 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.319 trying to convince them that they're not terrible at networking. 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.840 What are some practical things we should be doing to make, 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:29.439 you know, relationship building more fun and yeah authentic? 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:31.959 Yeah, I mean, I think the biggest thing I'll say 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:33.679 is that if you if you hate networking, if you 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:35.719 feel sleazy and weird and what have you like, I 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:39.680 totally get it right before. The motivation for writing that 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:42.840 book was that I read a lot of networking books 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:44.839 earlier in my career, and then I attempted to apply 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:46.679 their advice and the thing I ran into was that 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:49.679 like I feel inauthentic. Well, of course I feel inauthentic 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:51.920 because I'm doing so and so's version of networking. I'm 0:09:51.920 --> 0:09:54.079 not doing my own right. And so the point of 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:56.160 Friend of a Friend is it's really a book that 0:09:56.320 --> 0:09:59.600 is kind of a way to explain here's the science 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.440 of how social networks form, how humans actually create interactions 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:04.720 of what have you. And it's called Friend of a 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.560 Friend because I think the biggest insight in there is 0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.400 that you don't actually have to go to any of 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.240 those networking events where you serendipitously try and meet strangers 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:13.880 if you don't want to. You don't. You don't have 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:17.679 to make the perfect elevator pitch between the existing network 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:20.720 that you have and the ones that those people could 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.440 potentially introduce you to. You have everything you need to 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.679 have a robust enough network to achieve your career goals. Right, 0:10:27.360 --> 0:10:29.000 I don't even call it friend of the book actually 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:30.440 is like friend of a friend of a friend of 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:32.480 a friend. But that's because we had a great graphic designer. 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:34.720 But I don't even care about like we talk about 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:36.760 six degrees of separation, but you don't need to like 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.680 chase down six introductions in order to meet the CEO 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.520 of a major tech company or whatever. One or two 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:45.760 is usually enough in terms of practical kind of habits. 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:48.200 What I would say is the single most neglected thing 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:51.640 that people do is they don't spend enough time continuing 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.480 to nurture what we would call dormant ties. Right, So 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:55.960 maybe you've heard, if you're listening to this, you've heard 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.000 of the famous paper by Mark Ranovt or the Strength 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.480 of Weak Ties. But there's a specific form of a 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:02.960 week tie called a dormant tie. Someone we know, but 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:04.839 because we haven't talked to them in a while, we 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:08.760 we kind of fell out of touch with right and 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.280 so as a result, they're often their world doing something. 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:13.120 We're oft in our world doing something. And the truth 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.120 is most of our kind of cool, serendipitous. Hey, I'm 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:17.319 looking for a new job, I want to make a 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:19.280 career change. I just need advice on this thing, or 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:22.280 could somebody please help me get tickets to Taylor Swift 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.120 whatever it is. Most of those opportunities come from those 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:27.640 dormant ties, because they're people that know you enough to 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:29.760 want to help you, and vice versa, you know them 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:31.560 enough to want to help them. And they're in a 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:34.680 different world, They're in a different industry or sector or 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:38.120 geographic region, and so they have available to them opportunities 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:41.000 you can't see. So what does this mean, Like, practically, 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:44.000 whatever system works for you to make sure you stay 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:45.880 in touch with them, you know what I do. I 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.040 actually kind of took it to I used to play 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:51.000 a game I called cell Phone Roulette where I would 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.200 basically just scroll to the bottom of my messages once 0:11:54.320 --> 0:11:56.200 or twice a week and I would send a message 0:11:56.200 --> 0:11:58.199 because you know, it sorts most frequent So at the 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.680 very bottom of your messages app is the person you 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.080 haven't talked to in the longest, that's that you know 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:04.679 enough to be in your phone, and I would just 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:06.560 send them a Hey, thinking about you today. Now that's 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:08.760 true because I scrolled to the bottom and saw them, 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:10.880 so now I'm thinking about them and just kind of 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:13.840 a check in that. That worked really really well for 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.920 a time. Now I can't exactly scale that. So one 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.959 of the things I've started to do in pursued or 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.480 pursued persuaded by my friend's v is I send a 0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:27.199 regular update. So about once every four to six months, 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:28.560 I just send an update out to all of the 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.760 people that I care enough about to keep informed in 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:33.080 my life and want to hear from, and it says, hey, 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:35.319 here's what I've been up to. Personally, here's what we did. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.080 We took a family trip to Hawaii. Professionally, here's what 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:39.720 I've been doing, doing a lot of work on LinkedIn 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:41.720 learning courses or what have you. Here's what I've been reading, 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.679 here's what I've been wondering about, et cetera. And at 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:45.240 the very end of just say hey, what's going on 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:47.920 in your life? And the coolest part about it isn't 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.320 writing it. It actually feels really weird to write it because 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:52.360 it feels like I'm writing a Christmas letter, but like 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:56.240 multiple times a year, right, exactly exactly. The coolest thing 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:58.360 is when people write back and they say, this is 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:00.000 what I'm up doing this, so I haven't heard of you, 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:02.719 and it's just the flood of conversations that happens. Is 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.439 that little check in point. Now I'm doing that before 0:13:05.480 --> 0:13:07.560 I need it, right, there may be a time by 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:09.120 the end of the year where I'm like, hey, I 0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.280 really need somebody who has a connection to this. But 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.880 it's really awkward to do that unless you're constantly kind 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:16.720 of staying in touch with those dormant TIPE people. So 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:18.240 that's what I should do. Whether you want to play 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.439 the text message roulette or you want to do the 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.120 quarterly update, either one which everyone feels more authentic to you, 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:25.079 is probably going to work really, really well to keep 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:26.439 those dormanties activated. 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.000 Well I'm curious about that because people want to know, like, 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:32.400 what's the reason I'm reaching out to those people? And 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.640 I mean, yes, you scrolled through your phone and saw 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:37.480 their number and said thinking of you because you thought 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.600 of them when you saw their number. But I wonder 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.280 if you know, I think I think a lot of 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:44.360 people struggle with that, like comes up with the authentic 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:45.000 reason to do it? 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:46.640 Yeah, well I get it, I get it, I do. 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:48.600 And I think part of the reason for that is 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.880 that so many times when we're on the receiving end 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.520 of one of those messages, it's because somebody wants something 0:13:53.559 --> 0:13:55.480 from us and we're just sort of waiting for that 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:58.080 to drop. And so the idea behind doing this on 0:13:58.120 --> 0:14:00.800 a regular basis is that I'm training lots of people 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.640 that I actually legitimately care about them and don't want 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:05.760 something from them, which is true and I think it's 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:07.800 true for all of us. Right. Yeah, So if you're 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:09.559 doing it on a regular basis, if you're sending that 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:12.520 update quarterly or every six months or so whatever, you're 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:14.120 training people that, like I just want to stay in 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:15.960 touch with you. There might be a need you have 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.680 for me later. I might need you later, but that's 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.080 not what this one is about. And so it makes 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:23.160 it easier when you actually do have one of those 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.440 conversations where you need a favor or something like that, 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:28.600 because they're trained to not expect that shoe to drop. 0:14:29.000 --> 0:14:31.080 I totally get why it's awkward, and doing it the 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.680 first time, by the way, always super awkward. But here's 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.720 what I would tell you. Let's roll reverse. Right. If 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:38.320 you're listening to this, you're like, I could never do it. 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:40.760 Imagine someone you hadn't talked to that you worked at 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:42.880 IT in the last company or whatever, texted you out 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.160 of the blue and was like, Hey, I was thinking 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:46.400 about you today. I haven't talked to you in a 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:48.640 long time. I hope you're well, I hope everything's going 0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:51.920 on with you. Wouldn't you kind of like to receive 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:53.920 a message like that, I mean, you're I get that 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:55.960 some of us are kind of inherently skeptical that, like, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:57.240 what do you want from me? But as soon as 0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:59.640 you figured out that they didn't actually want anything from you, Like, 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.520 I can't think of a person, a former colleague or 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:04.920 an old friend from college that I wouldn't love to 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.320 be on the receiving end of that message from Yeah. 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:08.600 Absolutely, absolutely. 0:15:08.960 --> 0:15:11.640 So you've just shared a couple of things that you 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.080 do to make yourself more productive on the networking front 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.440 to hear, whether it's cell phone roulette or sending a 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.400 regular update on your life. I'm curious if you have 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.840 any other routines, like in your daily life that you 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:25.440 use to make yourself more productive. 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:30.600 Yeah, yes, okay, So I kind of have three average days, 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:32.280 right if you think about it. So, now that I'm 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.600 not teaching full time, I have home days, I have 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:37.480 on the road days where I'm speaking or working with 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:39.960 a client, and then I have kind of summer schedule, right, 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:41.360 which is what we're in the midst of is we're 0:15:41.400 --> 0:15:44.880 recording this right. Home days. I've become a huge fan 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:47.960 of kind of time blocking. So the average day for 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:49.880 me during the school year, I have kids that are 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:51.760 in middle school, in elementary school the average day from 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.120 during a school year, get up, help them, get ready, 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:55.760 get them off to the school bus, and then I've 0:15:55.800 --> 0:16:00.160 got about ninety minutes or so of kind of the quiet, 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.480 focused time I deliberately try and do like if I'm 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.560 writing a book or working on a piece or something 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:05.960 like that, I try and do it in that time. 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:07.880 I find I can get about one ninety minute block 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.840 before I get hungry again and also want to beat 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.640 everybody else to the noontime gym rush. So then I'm 0:16:13.680 --> 0:16:16.480 going into like a snack and exercise, whether that's going 0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.000 to the gym, ju ju jitsu, whether that's my wife, 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.520 and I become a huge pickupball fans. It's been terrible 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.040 for my knees, but a ton of fun, right, some 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.840 kind of some way to sweat, right, And then we're 0:16:26.840 --> 0:16:29.080 back at about twelve thirty one o'clock, and that's when 0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.160 I try and schedule almost all of my what I 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:33.360 would say reactive work. If you want, if a client 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.640 wants a phone call with me, if I made an 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:37.600 exception for you because you know we're old school friends. 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.680 But if you want to do a podcast interview something 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.480 like that, anything that doesn't require deep thought just requires 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:45.560 conversation that's in that afternoon bit until around when they 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:47.160 come from school, and then I'm right back into like 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:49.680 parent mode and we've got soccer practices and tube lessons 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.160 and all that sort of stuff. So that's like home schedule, 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:55.680 speaking schedule. I'll be honest with you, it's a free 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:59.600 for all. It's entirely determined on what the client needs 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:01.040 and what has But one of the things I've been 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.240