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Speaker 1: Get a text technology with tech Stuff from stuff dot com.

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Speaker 1: Hey there, and welcome to tex Stuff. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, and we are going to do a brand

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Speaker 1: new Predictions episode. You may remember that the last episode

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Speaker 1: I played was a rerun from two thousand eleven where

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Speaker 1: Chris Pallette and I decided to kind of guess what

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Speaker 1: the Internet would be like in about five years time. Well,

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Speaker 1: now we're gonna look another five years into the future.

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Speaker 1: And Chris could not be here, but I brought on

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Speaker 1: a good friend of mine up here, a guy who

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Speaker 1: works for cen Net. Very clever dude, who's got it

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Speaker 1: all together. I as actor, How you doing, I'm doing

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Speaker 1: really well. Thanks for having me on today. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: being on the show. And I as is sounding very formal,

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Speaker 1: but trust us. We we're we're buddies. We often give

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Speaker 1: each other the business as it were. Of course, of course,

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Speaker 1: Mr Strickland, we always give each other business. Uh. Those

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Speaker 1: those those plain envelopes filled with dollar bills will continue

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Speaker 1: to come to you. I as, so we we wanted

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Speaker 1: to take a look and kind of just have a

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Speaker 1: casual conversation of what we think the internet and our

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Speaker 1: interactions with the Internet might be like in another five years,

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Speaker 1: so in twenty twenty one, and uh, we're just kind

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Speaker 1: of shooting from the hip here. We're not not really

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Speaker 1: consulting any gurus or anything like that, but we did

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Speaker 1: come up with a bunch of little questions that we

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Speaker 1: thought would be good starters for this kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: And one of the points we made in the two

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Speaker 1: thousand eleven podcast that Chris and I did was that

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Speaker 1: we both felt that mobile browsing was definitely going to

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Speaker 1: be increasingly important, that we would see desktops and laptop

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Speaker 1: traffic on the Internet get surpassed by mobile devices. And

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Speaker 1: in fact, that did happen. And uh, it wasn't like

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Speaker 1: we were sticking our next really far out or anything.

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Speaker 1: That it was pretty clear that that was the trend

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Speaker 1: even when we started back then. Now, I as, do

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Speaker 1: you think that's gonna be something that we'll see continue

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Speaker 1: That will will mobile devices continue to be one of

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Speaker 1: the most important, maybe the predominant way that we interact

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Speaker 1: with the Internet, at least on a on an active scale. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think the mobile devices, I mean, they've shown how

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Speaker 1: important they've been over the years. And the thing is,

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Speaker 1: for a lot of people of their phone is their

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Speaker 1: first real personal computer. So what I'm expecting is essentially

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Speaker 1: laptops and desktops not as important, but we might actually

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Speaker 1: have the ability to have in five years now where

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Speaker 1: you have your phone, it's your brain for all your

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Speaker 1: other little systems, because I think other smart devices like

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Speaker 1: watching his glasses, other devices and form factors that we've

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Speaker 1: even thought up yet, those things will be around, but

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Speaker 1: they're really gonna be powered by your phone, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So that that makes sense. Like even stuff with Google

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Speaker 1: Glass that was something that you used a Bluetooth connection

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Speaker 1: with the phone. The phone ended up doing most of

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Speaker 1: the processing. The glass was just kind of a interface

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Speaker 1: and display, and you still were relying upon the actual

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Speaker 1: connection with your phone to grab the data from the cloud.

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Speaker 1: And that does make sense. I mean you that way

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Speaker 1: you remove the need for the more powerful processors and

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Speaker 1: the various antenna that you would require to to tap

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Speaker 1: into those networks. You can offload that. You just need

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Speaker 1: that Bluetooth interface in order for it to to communicate

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Speaker 1: with the devices the real brain. Also, I'm noticing I

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Speaker 1: just notice recently a video that kind of blew my

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Speaker 1: mind because it reminded me of something we saw at

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Speaker 1: CS many years ago, and it was a video of

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Speaker 1: a new product where you use your smartphone to act

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Speaker 1: as the processor for what was really just a terminal,

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Speaker 1: but it looks like, you know, a laptop computer and

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Speaker 1: you dock your phone into it and that essentially ends

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Speaker 1: up being the brains behind your computer. And I can't

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Speaker 1: remember you you might I as I don't know, but

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Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of the the thing that

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Speaker 1: was essentially that same idea from several years ago where

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Speaker 1: your your smartphone and uh could just dock into a

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Speaker 1: docking station and power a laptop. Um to me, it

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Speaker 1: was interesting to see that idea come back again because

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Speaker 1: it didn't seem to go anywhere after that initial c

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Speaker 1: e S debut. But it does kind of fall into

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Speaker 1: that same idea that the the smartphone will be kind

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Speaker 1: of the the center of a of a hub of devices,

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Speaker 1: all of which will rely very heavily on it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the device I think you're talking about the motto atrix,

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Speaker 1: a phone that were plug into a docking station that

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Speaker 1: kind of makes it a laptop. It wasn't elegant at all.

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Speaker 1: It didn't work with every single docking station. Need to

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Speaker 1: get a proprietary thing, so that kind of takes people off,

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Speaker 1: I know, the Kickstarter you're talking about or Indigogo. Not

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Speaker 1: sure which crowd funding site it is, but I mean, well, also,

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Speaker 1: I would imagine in five years we would have more

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Speaker 1: smart devices that can be on their own. But I

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Speaker 1: still think that having a the power and all the

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Speaker 1: brains on a singular device driving the other the other

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Speaker 1: devices makes more sense because, like you were mentioning other radio's,

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Speaker 1: other antennas, other battery concerns. To have all of that

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Speaker 1: and each self contained object you're talking about a lot

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Speaker 1: of items you have to keep charged all the time,

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Speaker 1: it seems like I don't know if five years is

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Speaker 1: enough time for this to really get mature. Maybe ten

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Speaker 1: years from now and now we're going too far. But

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Speaker 1: if battery technology moves ahead, maybe what we would see

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Speaker 1: these devices that are I guess cloud connected, So you're

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Speaker 1: the brain is still a computer somewhere, it's just nowhere

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Speaker 1: near you, right, I think. Also another important element to

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Speaker 1: take into account is cost, and by having your phone

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Speaker 1: be the primary brains behind all these different devices, it

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Speaker 1: helps bring the cost down to each of those individual devices.

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Speaker 1: They don't need as many expensive components and that will

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Speaker 1: make adoption um less difficult. Right, It's still gonna be

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Speaker 1: a barrier, obviously. It's any time we're talking about technology,

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Speaker 1: there's a barrier of intrigue that's there. Um. Not everyone

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Speaker 1: can afford to do it. But by going that that

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Speaker 1: route where your phone remains the primary processing unit of

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Speaker 1: all these different devices, you can at least create a

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Speaker 1: suite of technologies that aren't prohibitively expensive for all but

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Speaker 1: you know the top of the one per centers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a lot of silos, right, you can

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Speaker 1: probably like an Apple silo, you'll have a Android silo

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Speaker 1: or Samsung silo. There's things that you can't just mix

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Speaker 1: and match your accessories. You're just gonna have to get

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Speaker 1: one company's to make it work. Well, I still see

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Speaker 1: that happening because sometimes I think about in the old days,

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Speaker 1: how no standards were ever happened. I couldn't imagine actually

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Speaker 1: having one standard port or electrical outlets. If this is privatized,

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Speaker 1: weight is now it's like, well, USB A B C

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Speaker 1: about three point one. Just it seems so wonky. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a great point. I mean it's and that kind

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Speaker 1: of ties into The next question that I have on

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Speaker 1: our list the idea of silos, and this whether you

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Speaker 1: have interoperability between different you know, families of technologies or

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Speaker 1: if it's all within one group. One of the things

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Speaker 1: we've seen kind of come to prominence over the last

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Speaker 1: year or two is this idea of the digital personal assistant. Now.

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Speaker 1: In the two thousand eleven episode, Chris and I talked

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Speaker 1: about how voice recognition was going to become more important,

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Speaker 1: but it wouldn't take over as our primary means of

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Speaker 1: interacting with our technology for various reasons. I mean, if

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Speaker 1: you want to search anything that's remotely personal in nature,

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Speaker 1: you probably don't want to speak it out loud in public. Also,

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Speaker 1: you don't want to make people think you're crazy as

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Speaker 1: you're talking to absolutely no one visible at any rate. Um,

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Speaker 1: But we're starting to see them really get more more

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Speaker 1: traction these days, whether it's Apple's Sirie or Amazon's Alexa,

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Speaker 1: or Google's Assistant. You know, we have lots of different examples.

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Speaker 1: Do you think those are going to continue to get

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Speaker 1: more sophisticated? Are are we going to see more integration

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Speaker 1: into various devices, not just the standalonees or the smartphones,

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Speaker 1: but perhaps other things as well well. I could see

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Speaker 1: people getting very used to talking to the Internet in general.

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Speaker 1: Like you might think, now you might look a little

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Speaker 1: crazy that you're talking to yourself. Although these days you

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Speaker 1: see somebody talking themselves in the street, you're like, do

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Speaker 1: they have a Bluetooth headset or not? Because it used

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Speaker 1: to be twenty years ago you're like, oh, you're just nuts.

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Speaker 1: Now it's like, oh, you might be having a conversation.

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Speaker 1: But there's a generation of kids growing up talking to

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Speaker 1: smart speakers like the Echo, like Google Home when that

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Speaker 1: comes out, and when Apple goes ahead, where there's that

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Speaker 1: rumor that they're going to have their own smart speaker.

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Speaker 1: I see that kind of interface and that natural language

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Speaker 1: really being more important. Now maybe you're not necessarily talking

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Speaker 1: to your watch, but you might be writing the same

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Speaker 1: kinds of questions that you would say because the way

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Speaker 1: everything is changing with deep learning, the chance in five

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Speaker 1: years I'm really hoping to five years and you were

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Speaker 1: able to just ask a simple question without having to

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Speaker 1: have all of these modifiers that are search engine optimized,

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Speaker 1: you know what I mean, right, Yeah, without having to

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Speaker 1: parse your language in a way that search engines know

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Speaker 1: what it is. You're actually asking you to have that

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Speaker 1: natural length language recognition. I think we've we've definitely come

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Speaker 1: a far away over the last decade, definitely UH with

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Speaker 1: natural language where you know, it used to be that

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Speaker 1: you could do a Google search for a particular string

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Speaker 1: of terms and come up with a page of results

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Speaker 1: and think, this isn't remotely what I was hoping to find.

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Speaker 1: And then you just go and rearrange the order of

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Speaker 1: words that were in your Google query and come up

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Speaker 1: with different results and see, oh this is I just

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Speaker 1: have to think the way the computer thinks. Once we

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Speaker 1: get away from that, where computers are able to interpret

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Speaker 1: the way we think and the way different people think

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Speaker 1: about the same thing, but still bring back relevant results,

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Speaker 1: then we see real advances in and and a seamless

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Speaker 1: experience when we start interacting with the Internet. I think

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Speaker 1: that is definitely going to improve over the next five years.

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Speaker 1: We've already seen some amazing results as it stands now.

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Speaker 1: I also hope to see more of One of the

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Speaker 1: things I really like the way Amazon has approached this

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Speaker 1: Personal Digital Assistant UM model is their approach is all

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Speaker 1: about integrating with other systems so that you can control

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Speaker 1: different things within your home, even if they were not

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Speaker 1: originally designed to work together through a single interface, right

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Speaker 1: Like Hugh light bulbs are an example. Let's say that

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Speaker 1: I've got Hugh light bulbs in my house. Let's say

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Speaker 1: I've got some sort of of Internet connected security system.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I've got a couple of other appliances that are

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Speaker 1: also connected through my my home network and with Alexa,

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Speaker 1: assuming that the capability has been built in by developers,

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Speaker 1: I would be able to interact with all of those

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Speaker 1: as opposed to having to go through each proprietary system

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Speaker 1: and interface, which gets extremely clunky. It's kind of like

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Speaker 1: being in front of a a an entertainment system where

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Speaker 1: you have twelve different remote controls and trying to remember

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Speaker 1: which one goes to what component. Uh. I hope to

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Speaker 1: see more of that because, like you were saying, if

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Speaker 1: we go with the siloed approach, unless you're all in

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Speaker 1: with one provider, your experience is going to be really fragmented. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It just makes me think about the Internet of Things

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Speaker 1: because I have an Amazon Echo and I've had some

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Speaker 1: smart technologies in my house and smart light bulbs and things,

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Speaker 1: and most people would ask me, like, why would you

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Speaker 1: need a smart light bulb, and these are just little

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Speaker 1: fancy ways to make my apartment more personalized. But when

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Speaker 1: you have an echo, you have a brain that can

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Speaker 1: talk to multiple devices, you start thinking what other devices

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Speaker 1: you can get. So I'm expecting in five years a

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Speaker 1: lot of people will be very aware of the good

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Speaker 1: uses or connected devices, because I connected life all began

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Speaker 1: is a very strange idea at first, but when you

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Speaker 1: get used to it, you're like, wait a minute, why

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Speaker 1: didn't this happen before? So I'm expecting a lot more

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Speaker 1: dumb things to get a lot smarter five years. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And and you know, we've we've seen this is a

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Speaker 1: a progression that starts with some kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: uncertain moves. Again, going back to c e S. I

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Speaker 1: love talking about ce S because that's kind of like

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Speaker 1: the proving grounds for these new technologies. Typically a technology

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Speaker 1: will start to kind of creep in, and then the

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Speaker 1: next year it will be almost everywhere, and then maybe

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Speaker 1: three more years it will be to a point where

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Speaker 1: people will actually want it. Right because we've seen the

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Speaker 1: smart technology move into various appliances for the better part

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Speaker 1: of the decade now, and in many cases, those early

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Speaker 1: implementations were either short sighted or not terribly useful. But

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Speaker 1: as people are learning how to interact, and as developers

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Speaker 1: are learning, you know, what people expect from their technologies,

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Speaker 1: we're seeing that improve over time. I think in Internet

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Speaker 1: of Things is going to continue going strong. It it

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Speaker 1: isn't just a fad or a buzzword. It is going

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Speaker 1: to be a pervasive technology that UH surrounds us and

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Speaker 1: binds us like the force UM. It also has some

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Speaker 1: potential for some some negative stuff as well, not just

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Speaker 1: the idea of making our lives easier, but we'll talk

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Speaker 1: about that UH in a little bit. So one of

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Speaker 1: the other elements I have here on our list is

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Speaker 1: this question about again getting kind ofto that fragmented experience idea,

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Speaker 1: the rise of the app. That was one of those

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Speaker 1: things that that Chris and I didn't really touch on.

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Speaker 1: We didn't talk about apps. I don't think either of

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Speaker 1: us had really figured out how important apps were going

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Speaker 1: to be UH in general, and apps on smart devices

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Speaker 1: on on smartphones and mobile devices in particular have become

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Speaker 1: one of the most important stories in technology over the

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Speaker 1: last few years. UH companies can spring up overnight and

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Speaker 1: become incredibly successful with the right app a lot of

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Speaker 1: companies out there are banking on that success. Many of

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Speaker 1: them are failing um and and it's weird because it

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Speaker 1: also creates this very siloed approach to how you access

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Speaker 1: and interact with the Internet, particularly apps that are related

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Speaker 1: to content, where you know you might ask the question,

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Speaker 1: why do I use this app versus use a more

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Speaker 1: universal interface like a browser. Do you think that we're

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Speaker 1: going to continue to see, you know, a wide variety

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Speaker 1: of apps moving forward, or do you think that's a

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Speaker 1: bubble that will burst sometime between now and I don't

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Speaker 1: see apps necessarily going away. I can see a lot

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Speaker 1: of like hyper visor style apps, like we're talking about

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Speaker 1: with the Echo, where it controls lots of different things.

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Speaker 1: I could see a lot more apps that control other apps,

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Speaker 1: if that makes any sense. Like its like right now

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Speaker 1: we have things like hoot Suite, which can access to

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Speaker 1: different Twitter accounts, Facebook and all that other information. So

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Speaker 1: I could see that happening, which is a little strange

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Speaker 1: if you think about it, because a browser should be

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Speaker 1: able to handle it. But apps on their own, they

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Speaker 1: offer so much control to the companies that I think

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Speaker 1: that that's not going anywhere. Because the other thing is

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Speaker 1: you can create a lot of things that are offline

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Speaker 1: that you couldn't do in a browser. I think that's

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Speaker 1: one of the bigger things. Unless in five years the

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Speaker 1: Internet wirelessly or is that connectivity is always around, you

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Speaker 1: still have to deal with being offline, and if you

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Speaker 1: don't have an app, there's a good chance there's no

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Speaker 1: way a browser is gonna work unless there's some kind

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Speaker 1: of cash feature, which isn't something that really works so

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Speaker 1: well right now. That's a good point. Yeah. For example,

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Speaker 1: I've got I've got an app that I used for

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Speaker 1: for podcatching too, to listen to the various podcasts I

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Speaker 1: subscribe to, and I can either stream stuff directly from

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Speaker 1: the Internet to my headphones and that way I can

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Speaker 1: listen live, or I can down load an episode and

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Speaker 1: listen to it even if I'm offline, which of course

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Speaker 1: is useful if you're going to be like on a

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Speaker 1: long flight or something and you don't have in flight WiFi.

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Speaker 1: That's a really useful, uh feature. So I didn't really

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Speaker 1: think of it that way, but that is interesting. I

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Speaker 1: would I would love to see some more experimentation with apps.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it gets a little tricky, but you know, something

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Speaker 1: that would um allow you to maximize the reach of

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Speaker 1: your various music services would be nice because not all

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Speaker 1: artists have work all in one or all in the

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Speaker 1: same music service. And being able to go through all

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Speaker 1: of them simultaneously so that you can listen to what

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Speaker 1: you want to listen to. Uh, you know, subscribing to

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Speaker 1: whichever services you want, but being able to search all

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Speaker 1: of them at once would be really nice instead of

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Speaker 1: having to you know, go into one and they oh, wait,

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Speaker 1: that's right, that musicians label doesn't work with Spotify or

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Speaker 1: Pandora or whatever it may be. Um, so yeah, it's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I do think I do think there's going to be

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Speaker 1: a bit of a reckoning between now and where we

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Speaker 1: will see a lot of apps, um, kind of collapse

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Speaker 1: in on themselves. I think we're going to see on

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Speaker 1: the investment front, some capitalists venture Catalyst being a little

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Speaker 1: more careful with which apps they jump in and back.

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Speaker 1: I just don't see it as sustainable in the long

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Speaker 1: run for the kind of approach we're seeing right now.

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Speaker 1: Where you know, it seems like every week you're getting

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Speaker 1: one or two stories about some brand new app debuting

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Speaker 1: with incredible amounts of financial backing. Uh, and no business

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Speaker 1: plan to speak of that that cannot continue indefinitely. So

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Speaker 1: I think there's probably gonna be a bit of a

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Speaker 1: shaky bubble kind of moment between now and hopefully by

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Speaker 1: one it will have settled back down so that we

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Speaker 1: can have product of useful apps continue. I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't want to see anyone tank. I just don't think

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Speaker 1: that the way things have been going is sustainable in

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Speaker 1: the long run. The other thing I was thinking is

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Speaker 1: that the way I've seen companies talk to developers, the

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Speaker 1: idea that you write one app and runs on multiple platforms, Android, Chromos,

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Speaker 1: or if you run a Windows app it runs on

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Speaker 1: every Windows thing and iOS at some point has to

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Speaker 1: have some kind of ties to os ten or mac os.

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Speaker 1: I would imagine in five years these apps that are

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Speaker 1: just kind of like, oh, it's only for my phone,

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Speaker 1: it's only from my watch, or it's only for whatever,

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Speaker 1: these these apps will actually be much more powerful than

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Speaker 1: when you can install them on full fledged computers, or

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Speaker 1: you can have the same experience or slightly modified experiences

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Speaker 1: for different screens. I think that's the future we're headed for.

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Speaker 1: So we're not gonna lose the apps. We might get

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Speaker 1: more productive apps, But I don't see it being this

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Speaker 1: world of the way it is now. It's definitely gonna

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Speaker 1: be much more, kind of like the way the i

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Speaker 1: OS apps can be iPhone and iPad. I can imagine

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Speaker 1: this happened with all other kinds of apps as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's something that Microsoft has been pushing for for a

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Speaker 1: long time. I mean Windows eight was our first indication

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Speaker 1: that they really wanted to create this universal experience where

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Speaker 1: the technology, the programs you depended upon would work across

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Speaker 1: multitude multiple platforms seamlessly. And we're we're seeing that with

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways that apps are uh designed, you know,

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Speaker 1: like um, Netflix is a great example where you're watching

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Speaker 1: Netflix on one platform, you pause your viewing, you go,

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Speaker 1: you turn on a different platform, and you can pick

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Speaker 1: up right where you left off. That that's sort of

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Speaker 1: that same idea, this idea that you can have a

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Speaker 1: persistent experience across whichever platform you want. It may be

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Speaker 1: that the interaction with that platform has to be different

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Speaker 1: because it's just a it's you know, it doesn't have

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Speaker 1: the same interface, but the experience you get is as

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Speaker 1: close to being universal as you can possibly get. Um.

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Speaker 1: I agree that that's definitely gonna continue you and and

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Speaker 1: it will probably be very impressive, at least to the

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen versions of US. Maybe versions of US will

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Speaker 1: be you know, totally blase about it, but but right

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Speaker 1: now we'd be really we'd really be thrilled by that.

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Speaker 1: One of the other things we did not talk about

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Speaker 1: in two thousand and eleven, neither Chris nor I anticipated

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Speaker 1: it was the rise of Google Fiber. Uh, and seeing

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Speaker 1: Google Fiber come out. I'm in Atlanta and Google Fiber

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Speaker 1: is currently deploying in Atlanta to the point where lots

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Speaker 1: of different neighborhoods in the Atlanta area are eligible for

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Speaker 1: signing up for Google Fiber. Not me yet, but any

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Speaker 1: day now. Um, So we didn't anticipate Google Fiber showing up.

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Speaker 1: Do you think Google Fiber is actually going to have

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Speaker 1: a disruptive effect on the industry as a whole or

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Speaker 1: do you see this as being something that might might

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Speaker 1: be beneficial for certain regions. But that's all we're going

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Speaker 1: to see. We're not gonna get a wider effect than that.

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Speaker 1: I think there's gonna be quite a wide effect. In

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Speaker 1: recent news, Versing went out and bought a o L

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Speaker 1: and uh something else was the other one, Yahoo, right,

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Speaker 1: And essentially it makes it some kind of digital advertising

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Speaker 1: giant to take on Google. And I loved seeing the

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Speaker 1: news only for the reason that maybe it would get

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Speaker 1: like like light a fire under Google and go, wait

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Speaker 1: a second, if those guys are going to be an

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Speaker 1: I s P and they're going to have this kind

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Speaker 1: of content management, why don't we do the same thing

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Speaker 1: considering we're competitors with them. So I'm expecting Google to

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Speaker 1: be one of the first to just full on go

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Speaker 1: head to head against a horizon against the wireless carriers

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Speaker 1: out there, because Google Fiber, while it's good, the infrastructure

396
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Speaker 1: layout just seems to take so long and then run

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Speaker 1: into a lot of regulation problems. But if they can

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Speaker 1: buy up you know, essentially the wireless last mile, if

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Speaker 1: that's how this is going to go, I would think

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Speaker 1: they would be one of the companies to do it.

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Speaker 1: And I was trying to out, like, what other company

402
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Speaker 1: do I think in five years would actually have a

403
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Speaker 1: wireless service? I would say in the US anyway, Amazon

404
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: could easily become some kind of wireless carrier because their

405
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Speaker 1: whole model is just get you to buy products over

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Speaker 1: and over and over again. So if they can stop

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Speaker 1: that one last barrier of well, I don't have a

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Speaker 1: connection to Amazon, I'm gonna do this. Why not do

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Speaker 1: that with not only their fire devices but any device

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Speaker 1: because in the past they used to have wireless built

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Speaker 1: into their kindles through other services. There's really not a

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Speaker 1: lot of reasons why a company like Amazon wouldn't enter

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Speaker 1: that fray, especially in my future. By the way, Google

414
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Speaker 1: has already entered this, and it's gonna have enough of

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Speaker 1: a disruption that other companies will no longer be afraid

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Speaker 1: to fight an a T and T Hoverizon and I

417
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Speaker 1: guess T Mobile at the time, because that's usually the

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Speaker 1: biggest fears, like if I go against these guys, they

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Speaker 1: won't carry my phones, and then that's going to cause

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Speaker 1: an issue. But when there's enough competition, it no longer

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Speaker 1: matters well, and it's just nice to see any competition

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Speaker 1: at all in that space, at least with the wireless side.

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Speaker 1: You could argue, particularly with the cellular and the LTE

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Speaker 1: side of things, you could argue that there is at

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Speaker 1: least some competition here in the United States. When you

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Speaker 1: get to home internet access like wired internet access, that

427
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 1: level of competition starts to drop off dramatically. Depending on

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Speaker 1: where you live, you may not have any options other

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Speaker 1: than a single provider. Uh. In my case, I have

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Speaker 1: one decent option at least from a data speed, although

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Speaker 1: anyone who listens to a show that I, as an

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Speaker 1: I do knows that it's reliability is more than a

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Speaker 1: little questionable. By the way I asked, I don't know

434
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 1: if I'll be able to record this week. We'll find out,

435
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: uh the But but seeing actual competition there is really

436
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:53,719
Speaker 1: encouraging because it suddenly forces these major companies that haven't

437
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,280
Speaker 1: had to worry about that kind of thing for more

438
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: than a decade to really seriously consider it. Especially seeing

439
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,639
Speaker 1: is how ones like Comcast are in the business not

440
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,879
Speaker 1: just of providing Internet service, but are also cable television companies,

441
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: and that business I didn't really think about touching on

442
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 1: that because it's not it's related to Internet, but it's

443
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:18,359
Speaker 1: not truly Internet. That business has been really kind of

444
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: teetering on this edge of a precipitous drop for a

445
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: couple of years, and we expect that to happen any

446
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: day now. Really, So seeing that kind of pressure come

447
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: up is encouraging to me because I hope that it

448
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 1: will ultimately benefit the consumer where you have real options,

449
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: not just options in name only for real good Internet

450
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 1: access like decent speeds. And it also be nice to

451
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: not see any more data caps. I'm really hoping the

452
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: data caps go away. That was something we touched on

453
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: in our two thousand and eleven episode, and UH turned

454
00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 1: out that that ended up being a real big issue,

455
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 1: particularly since we're seeing more and more streaming video these

456
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: days at higher qualities than ever before. You're talking about

457
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: things like four K and UM and perhaps even higher

458
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 1: resolution video moving forward. Uh, data caps are a real problem.

459
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: Do you think that's gonna be something that will persist?

460
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: Do you think companies are going to hold onto data

461
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,959
Speaker 1: caps for as long as they possibly can, or do

462
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: you think that demand and competition will ultimately make data

463
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: caps a thing of the past by the year. There's

464
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: what I want to happen. When I think it's gonna happen. Okay,

465
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: let's let's hear what you want to happen. What I

466
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:38,600
Speaker 1: want to happen is I would like there to be

467
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: enough bandwidth if there's basically these companies are auctioning off

468
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: or selling to you various speeds. Okay, you can pay

469
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: you know x amount of money for outter ten naka

470
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: bits per second. You can pay why for thirty you

471
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 1: can pay z for one gig a bit wireless, but

472
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: that's not gonna happen. What's gonna happen is you're going

473
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: to get this giant fire hose of speed, like we're

474
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: gonna give you one gig a bit per sect it,

475
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: but your cap is five gigabytes. You through this now,

476
00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 1: no gigabytes to gigabyte. There's there's obviously a change there,

477
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: but that's the thing that keeps making money. It's actually

478
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 1: relatively simple to explain to people as well. When it

479
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: comes to caps um, I don't see that being changed unless,

480
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 1: like we talked about, other companies get into the game

481
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 1: where there's enough competition, maybe somebody can disrupt that marketing.

482
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: But the way it is now, it seems like the

483
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,919
Speaker 1: old old ideas was unlimited, and we'll have unlimited and

484
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: then people would never let them go. Because of the

485
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 1: changes that have happened, I think caps are here to stay,

486
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,200
Speaker 1: at least only on the wireless space. On the wired side,

487
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: the home based stuff, I still think if they have

488
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: caps would all to be very very high kind of

489
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: a ludicrous number that's very hard to hit because that's

490
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: how it's sold at home. It's about speed, that's how

491
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,680
Speaker 1: you get home internet. So I still see wireless companies

492
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,640
Speaker 1: just sticking to caps. One particular wired company, I still

493
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: think we'll do caps. You know the company, Yeah, this

494
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: is the same one I was ring too earlier. Yes, yeah, yeah,

495
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: now I know that company well too. Well, some might say,

496
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: uh yeah, I I really hope that the push from

497
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:18,919
Speaker 1: Google Fiber will ultimately make the wired data caps a

498
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 1: thing of the past, as companies have to differentiate themselves

499
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:27,360
Speaker 1: more in order to win over customers rather than run

500
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 1: the risk of seeing their customer base deplete into nothing.

501
00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: That's my hope. My fear is that this is just

502
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: going to continue to be an issue in and that people,

503
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,359
Speaker 1: even though they'll have the access to much better um

504
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 1: Internet service, will not be able to take full advantage

505
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: of it because of those things, at least not without

506
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: paying a hefty fee for either the unlimited package, which

507
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: I'm sure some companies will offer, or you know, overage

508
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: fees because you keep going over the amount that you're

509
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: allotted per month, uh, somewhat arbitrarily, if not entirely arbitraily.

510
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: That's the grumpy old man version of this episode. Uh,

511
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 1: let's talk about something that gets me even more angry,

512
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,400
Speaker 1: net neutrality. So net neutrality, we we've seen a lot

513
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: of progress over the last five years. One of the

514
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: things that that happened that Chris and I didn't really

515
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: predict was the move on an official front to try

516
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: and reframe cable companies are are cable providers internet service

517
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: providers I should say um in a way that would

518
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: allow them to fall under rules that would ensure net

519
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: neutrality would continue. And we've seen a lot of resistance

520
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,240
Speaker 1: of that to that idea over the last couple of years. Uh,

521
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: you know, the companies are fighting this like crazy. What

522
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: do you think the status of net neutrality will be

523
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: by I think it's gonna be so much for it

524
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: is the way it is now. I think that the

525
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: T Mobile method that we've seen was basically what we're

526
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 1: going to see by everybody. And what I mean by

527
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: that is there's no prioritization of bits over other ones. However,

528
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: certain bits do not count against caps. It's almost like

529
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: bending a rule like crazy without breaking it. So I

530
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 1: think that's how we're going to ride this line because

531
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 1: I know, when it comes to net neutrality in the

532
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: United States, one of the ways that companies can say, hey, listen,

533
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: we can actually prioritize bits is based on network congestion

534
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: or network management. As long as you can come up

535
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: with the reason why you need to do this, a

536
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: legal reason, it'll make sense to do it that way.

537
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: But I'm assuming the tamabile method is actually the future

538
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,040
Speaker 1: of net neutrality. It's not. Again, it's not prioritization. It's

539
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: just not counting something towards a cap. So in other words, uh,

540
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: it's not that you would get faster or more reliable service.

541
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,040
Speaker 1: Let's let's use a fictional approach. So let's say that

542
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: I've got a a a video service. Uh we'll call it,

543
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, not Flicks. So I've got not Flicks,

544
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: but I also am Let's say a subscriber to Tim Warner.

545
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: So Tim Warner is my internet service provider, and Tim Warner,

546
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: that guy Tim has got the own his his own

547
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: video service that is competing with not Flicks. And Tim

548
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: Warner's service doesn't count against my data cap, but not

549
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: Flix does. Now, if I were to watch the same

550
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: movie on either service, I would have, at least in theory,

551
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: the exact same experience as a customer, the same same

552
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: bit rate, all of that stuff, uh, no buffering, you know,

553
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 1: same quality of video. It wouldn't matter. But when it

554
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: came time for me to pay my bill, I wouldn't

555
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: have any danger of going over if I was relying

556
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 1: on Tim Warner's service, then on not Flix, where I

557
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: might go over because that is still counted against my

558
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: data cap. Am I capturing what you're you're kind of

559
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 1: proposing here mostly except the concern becomes when Tim Warner

560
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 1: has its own content with it. With the current example

561
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 1: I was making, I was talking about the Team Mobile,

562
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: it isn't exactly they have skin in the game when

563
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: it comes to music services or whatever. So when you're

564
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 1: talking about a an i SP that also has a

565
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: content arm, that's when it gets a little murky. However,

566
00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,840
Speaker 1: it's still not prioritization. It's simply not counting data against

567
00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: your cap and the cap there's nothing illegal about a cap. Yeah,

568
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: So that's so I think that is something I think

569
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: we will continue to see and also as we keep

570
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 1: seeing wireless companies or I s p s get into

571
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: the content game and vice versa. This is going to

572
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: get pushed now that we're talking about this, This might

573
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 1: become the new fight. Can a company that has has

574
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: two different interests do this kind of not prioritization and

575
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: get away with it? Yeah? I mean the easy real

576
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: world example of that is Comcast. I mean, Comcast definitely

577
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: has a vested interest with you know, NBC Universal and

578
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: all this. They have a huge content arm as well

579
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 1: as internet service provider business, and the two combined. You know,

580
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: it's it's very easy to bring up the concern of

581
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 1: a conflict of interest if you were to prioritize in

582
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: some way, shape or form the native content versus stuff

583
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: that comes from other companies. Uh. I agree. I think

584
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 1: we're going to see a lot of really messy fights,

585
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 1: some of which may end up being like big news

586
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: that people like you and I pay a lot of

587
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: attention to and the general public just grumbles about their

588
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 1: cable bill. Um, that's based upon past experience in my case.

589
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: One about the concept of privacy by one, we're already

590
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: seeing some uh, some struggles out there. We've got so

591
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: many devices out in the hands of people that have cameras.

592
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: They're not only capable of shooting video and recording uh sound,

593
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 1: as well as just shooting images. They're not only capable

594
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: of uploading that stuff later, they can stream it live

595
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 1: at this point, and we've had famous examples, recent examples

596
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: of that being used to great effect, uh, sometimes with

597
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 1: really disturbing consequences, important but disturbing consequences. But this is

598
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 1: also raising up questions of what will privacy be like?

599
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 1: What is the expectation of privacy in a world where

600
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:47,520
Speaker 1: you are surrounded by potentially hundreds of live feed video

601
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: cameras that could broadcast to the entire world. What do

602
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: you think it'll be dead privacy and in five years

603
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: dead dead dead dead dead. Uh. The idea of having

604
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: a reasonable expectation of privacy, when could you possibly imagine

605
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: in a space other than I guess maybe a bathroom,

606
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: where do you have a space where you think you

607
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 1: have a reasonable expectation that you will not be recorded,

608
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 1: where you will not be seen by a camera or

609
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: live streamed. At this point, in this modern age, it's

610
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 1: getting more and more normal. Yeah, there's a chance that

611
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: I could be walking around in a store, in a

612
00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 1: mall or whatever and somebody's live streaming this on Facebook

613
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: Live in five years from now, people don't get way

614
00:34:28,200 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: more used to this concept. So this idea, I think

615
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: of the legal standard a reasonable expectation of privacy. That

616
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: changes when it comes to reasonability. So when it comes

617
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: to your face showing up on a billboard for you know,

618
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: not Flix as as a user because you were outside

619
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: on a phone and if somebody saw you on your

620
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,600
Speaker 1: phone looking at knot Flix, that might be used. It

621
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 1: could be in terms of service. Then we can use

622
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 1: your image if we get you on the street. There's

623
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: all kinds of changes because cameras are everywhere. It used

624
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: to be the fear of oh no big brothers watching me,

625
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 1: but everybody's watching each other. You can live stream anything

626
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: at any given time. I don't think privacy is going

627
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: to be the same kind of great thing we held sacred,

628
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:10,879
Speaker 1: you know, years ago. Now it's just gonna then it's

629
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: going to be in the future. This idea that well,

630
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: of course, of course we're live stream This is just

631
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 1: how it is, you know, that's the way reality is now, right, Yeah,

632
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: And it gets even more complicated than that because you

633
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: also have organizations that are pushing back against this encroaching

634
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: world of live video. I'm I'm thinking specifically various police

635
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 1: forces around the United States in particular. I mean, this

636
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: is something that we've seen in other countries, but you're

637
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,760
Speaker 1: starting to see it in the US where you're seeing

638
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: more of an opposition to the idea of capturing this

639
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:48,880
Speaker 1: stuff on live video. There was a case in Pennsylvania

640
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,200
Speaker 1: not too long ago in which I believe it was

641
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: a college student who was using his phone to video

642
00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: police that were gathered outside of a party, and he

643
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 1: was detained for that, and there was this whole court case,

644
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 1: and eventually the court said in their decision that the

645
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: right to video police police officers in a public space.

646
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: I guess maybe it wasn't a public space because it

647
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: might have been in front of a private house party,

648
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 1: but two video police like that is not protected under

649
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:24,319
Speaker 1: the First Amendment in the United States unless you are

650
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:30,120
Speaker 1: specifically using it to provide meaningful commentary or critique of

651
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 1: the police force. Which seems to be a pretty major

652
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: legal decision in my mind, one that I am sure

653
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: is going to be contested over time. But but seeing

654
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 1: this kind of uncomfortable reaction where law enforcement groups, not

655
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: not universally but in pockets are opposing to opposing this

656
00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: kind of approach tells me that maybe by one will

657
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 1: have a point where privacy is dead dead dead dead

658
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:05,200
Speaker 1: dead Mark Zuckerberg style. But it's not gonna be a

659
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: gentle pathway. We're gonna see lots of different reactions, both

660
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 1: from official agencies and individuals who are going to protest this.

661
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 1: I think, ultimately, as you say, fruitlessly, because I don't

662
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 1: think that I don't think you can stop this train now.

663
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,000
Speaker 1: It's it's moving, it's not there's no way to derail it. Uh.

664
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: The question is just how long is it gonna take

665
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,920
Speaker 1: to get to that destination where we've just you know,

666
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: come to the conclusion that that you're essentially always on camera.

667
00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:39,840
Speaker 1: But it'll be great, you know, the future everything that

668
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: people who have like throwback parties, you know, like there's

669
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: nineties parties now, in the future, it'll be like privacy

670
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: parties and there's nobody's got got a phone. You gotta

671
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,319
Speaker 1: chill out, and you can't live stream, and it'll be

672
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: like a thing that people like do kind of like camping.

673
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: They decided we're gonna go off the grid, or we're

674
00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:59,239
Speaker 1: gonna not live stream just for thirty minutes, I know,

675
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: it's crazy, but we're going to be dark. It'll be

676
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: kind of like the the advertising campaign for Las Vegas

677
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: about what what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. It's

678
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: gonna be kind of like that, like, all right on

679
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,560
Speaker 1: this weekend, we're not broadcasting what's happening, it's you experience

680
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: that when it happens. When it's over, it's over, and

681
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,879
Speaker 1: that's it. Uh. That does appeal to me, even as

682
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,280
Speaker 1: someone who seems to be surgically attached to his phone.

683
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 1: I very like I go through that level of distress

684
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: if I don't have I realized I don't have my

685
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: phone on me. I go through that panic mode. But

686
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: it does also sound nice to kind of get away

687
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 1: from that if you're making a conscious effort to do so.

688
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: I don't like it forced upon me. Um. So, what

689
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 1: about related to privacy? What about cybersecurity? Obviously we've seen

690
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 1: lots of high profile cybersecurity risks and attacks. We've seen

691
00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: a lot of information about various vulnerabilities being exploited. There are,

692
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: of course, major conferences that are dedicated to both uncovering

693
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 1: and demonstrating the power of exploiting vulnerabilities. I honestly think

694
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: because I've been asking you to answer every one of

695
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: these questions before I do. It's kind of the safety

696
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 1: net version. I think, Uh, this is just gonna become

697
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: one of the most important issues by and I have

698
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: no doubt that there will be several uh major, major

699
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 1: stories that involve cybersecurity failures, possibly even a couple of

700
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,720
Speaker 1: catastrophic or a catastrophic I should say catastrophic stories thrown

701
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 1: in there, and by catastrophic I mean things where either

702
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: it's discovered that there have been uh foreign agencies spying

703
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: on very important material. We've already seen examples of that

704
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: in the past, whether it's in the United States or

705
00:39:57,480 --> 00:39:59,879
Speaker 1: other countries. We're gonna see more of that come to light,

706
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: I think over the next few years, and also just

707
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,680
Speaker 1: other examples of things like corpiate corp corporate espionage or

708
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:10,120
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's something where one company is acting

709
00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 1: against another government against the company, or um disenchanted former

710
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 1: employees against the company. I think we're gonna see a

711
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,400
Speaker 1: lot more of this to a point where cybersecurity is

712
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: going to be one of the biggest and most important

713
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 1: industries by one. What are your thoughts. I think in

714
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:33,000
Speaker 1: some areas it'll be really important for industry and just

715
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:36,640
Speaker 1: in general, like when it comes to everyday security. If

716
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,280
Speaker 1: you work at the corporation, you work at a business,

717
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: that kind of thing I just think as a but

718
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,839
Speaker 1: the public consciousness, it will remain as it as it

719
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: has been. We have the whole here. Look at the

720
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 1: NSA has got everything on everybody at all times, and

721
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: it still didn't cause a shift in behavior. Now there

722
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: might be some new interest in hey, is my phone?

723
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: Is its fingerprint scanner going to be used against me?

724
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: Do I have to be conscious when you use my thumb?

725
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,240
Speaker 1: Or does my pass code? Can I not give a passcode?

726
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: Those kinds of questions do come up for the general public.

727
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: I just think the public consciousness, with the connectivity we

728
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,799
Speaker 1: have now, there's a real ease in just turning off

729
00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 1: your brand and going yeah, I know that happened over there,

730
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: but you know, I really want to check on this

731
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: live stream, I really want to mess with this app,

732
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,600
Speaker 1: I want to do this other thing. So while it

733
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 1: should be really really important, and while your privacy and

734
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,800
Speaker 1: your protect and being protected in your data being protected,

735
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: it should be important. We see stories all the time

736
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:39,000
Speaker 1: about breaches and overreaching by agencies and finding out there's

737
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 1: state sponsored attacks. Yet it's only those who are intrigued

738
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: or interested in security that are already reading the stories,

739
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: kind of feeding itself, not exactly touching hitting a chord

740
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: with the public. I don't know what it would take

741
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: if the n S A stuff didn't do it. I

742
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: don't know what it would take other than aliens showing

743
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: up and think we have docs on you, and it's

744
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 1: still be more in the aliens and the documents. I

745
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: agree with you in the sense that I think the

746
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:15,760
Speaker 1: general public will not be more attuned to the risks

747
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: and the the various problems of cybersecurity, and even the

748
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 1: or the advances and cybersecurity. I also think the general

749
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: population isn't necessarily going to be more um aware and

750
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: alert and and take proactive steps to better protect their

751
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,919
Speaker 1: own systems. Whether that means, you know, something as simple

752
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: as changing the password on your router to uh, making

753
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:44,440
Speaker 1: certain that you're not using the same passwords for various services,

754
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. Using encryption. I don't think

755
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:51,360
Speaker 1: that's gonna be a big deal for most people. But

756
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: I do think on the back end of things, on

757
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: the actual cybersecurity industry end of things, that's gonna be

758
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: a huge, huge are of growth by one. Like if

759
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: someone were asking me, like they were interested in technology

760
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: and they were wondering what area would have you know,

761
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 1: good good growth, good potential, I would say cybersecurity is

762
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: way up there. Uh it's not. I don't think people

763
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 1: would necessarily consider it glamorous, and a lot of folks

764
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: just don't necessarily understand the importance of it. But based

765
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,360
Speaker 1: upon the things that have happened, I mean, you know,

766
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: look at the stuff that's happened over the last five years,

767
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: from stocks net to you've got the Sony hack, which

768
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: was huge news a couple of years ago, Um, the

769
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 1: Ashley Madison hack where you had uh, you know, essentially

770
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: blackmail rolled into hacking. These are big stories and I

771
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,879
Speaker 1: think that's just going to continue over the next few years,

772
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:51,080
Speaker 1: which is that's why I feel like it's gonna be

773
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: even bigger by not bigger in the sense that people will,

774
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: like the average person was going to talk about it,

775
00:43:57,560 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: but bigger in the sense that more and more our

776
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 1: companies and and government agencies are going to pay a

777
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 1: lot more attention to that side of things. And the

778
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: other thing is there's a lot of technologies that can

779
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: take care of the cybersecurity end, even if the users

780
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 1: in paying attention, like biometrics, like you know mention the

781
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: fingerprint scanner, there's the note seven it's got it's new

782
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: Irish scanner. You would think that with that kind of

783
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: technology that might help the public might not care that

784
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: Oh look, I can use a fingerprint or use my

785
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,840
Speaker 1: eyes to unlock something, but that will actually up to

786
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: security in general because you're not using the same one, two, three,

787
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: four five password Because people do that. Yeah, yeah, I

788
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 1: mean there's a reason why a lot of brute force

789
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 1: attacks can be effective, and that's because a lot of

790
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 1: people use the same week passwords. Their entire databases just

791
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:51,320
Speaker 1: filled with millions of common, simple passwords, and that's why

792
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: a lot of those brute force attacks can be can

793
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 1: be ultimately successful. It's because people are not practicing good

794
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 1: computer security. So using bio tricks as a means of

795
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,720
Speaker 1: of of improving that is a step in the right direction.

796
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously no system is completely full proof, but um,

797
00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 1: this this is definitely a better step than one two,

798
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: three for five, which is on my luggage. Um, I've

799
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: got a question here that I'm just curious what your

800
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:23,960
Speaker 1: thoughts are and some again something that we didn't really

801
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: touch on the show. But do you think internet based currencies,

802
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 1: and I'm specifically thinking of like cryptocurrency like like bitcoin,

803
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: will play a large role in one or do you

804
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 1: think that that's just something that it's going to be

805
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: popular with a certain segment of the population but never

806
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:44,960
Speaker 1: really grow beyond that. I'm curious about your thoughts on this.

807
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna stay niche. I mean, there's nothing

808
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:55,360
Speaker 1: demanding that we stop using dollars or euro or pounds.

809
00:45:55,719 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 1: So the idea of having this cryptocurrency or that you're

810
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: minding something like the like bitcoin particular, where you can

811
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: keep creating them, it takes a long time and it

812
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 1: figures itself out that Have you done an episode on bitcoin? Yes, okay,

813
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:10,919
Speaker 1: so listen to that episode to fully explain it, because

814
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do it justice here. But I

815
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,399
Speaker 1: don't see it being something that would take over even

816
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: though we have this increasing globalization. When it comes to

817
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:23,120
Speaker 1: the Internet, you can get anything from anywhere, any time

818
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 1: with any device. That's awesome, but it took a lot

819
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 1: of time to get that infrastructure in place. If you

820
00:46:29,040 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: introduced a new currency that's gonna make it work. I

821
00:46:31,960 --> 00:46:34,400
Speaker 1: don't see that becoming a bigger deal. I still seeing

822
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: see it having a minor interest for people who really

823
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: want to get into it, But I don't see it

824
00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: growing much larger than that. What do you think. I

825
00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:46,680
Speaker 1: think you're right. I think if there are any if

826
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 1: we see any major state backed cryptocurrencies, then there's the

827
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: possibility that that could take off. But then you start

828
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: asking the asking questions of why bother going through the

829
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:59,360
Speaker 1: trouble of creating a cryptocurrency when you could just create

830
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 1: areas services things like Google Wallet or Apple pay, the

831
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: ideas of like the transaction services. So it has nothing

832
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 1: to do really with currency other than the fact that

833
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,279
Speaker 1: those are the units with which you know that you

834
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:14,840
Speaker 1: use to determine how much you're paying for something. But

835
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:19,920
Speaker 1: it's actually a wealth transfer system, for lack of a

836
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:22,839
Speaker 1: better phrase. I think that's what we're going to see

837
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 1: continue to grow. We're going to see those services get

838
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 1: more popular and used in and implemented in a variety

839
00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: of different products, including I mean wearables being a really

840
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 1: simple example. I can easily imagine a lot of wearables

841
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,839
Speaker 1: having that particular capability built in as part of what

842
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 1: it does. But I agree with you that the cryptocurrency

843
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: I think will remain the realm of a smaller population.

844
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 1: And I would also argue that it's those people who

845
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: they purposefully try to maintain that, right. I think that

846
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 1: those populations don't necessarily want to see a widespread adoption

847
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,919
Speaker 1: of the currency that they like, because, for one thing,

848
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: it allows that currency to be used for stuff that

849
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,399
Speaker 1: they might not want more attention drawn toward, right, like

850
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: some of the more shady or possibly outright illegal things

851
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: that we've seen bitcoin used for, and other cryptocurrencies as well. Yeah,

852
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: the idea with with bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies, it's essentially

853
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: cash online, an untraceable unit that can be passed from

854
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: one person to another without necessarily being caught with this

855
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 1: kind of paper trail with credit cards, that kind of thing,

856
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: And like you're saying, it should stay I imagine staying

857
00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:44,560
Speaker 1: niche because it's almost in some respects cryptocurrency is a

858
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:47,880
Speaker 1: solution and looking for a problem. Yeah, you don't really

859
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:51,480
Speaker 1: need to do this, especially with all of the banking

860
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 1: structures out there to do a lot of I don't

861
00:48:54,880 --> 00:48:57,160
Speaker 1: want to say legitimate, but other business. You know, you

862
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 1: want to do regular business. You can do that so

863
00:48:59,440 --> 00:49:01,920
Speaker 1: many different ways. At this point, I remember your way

864
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:03,319
Speaker 1: back when this is looking is it the wrong way

865
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: of looking at the internet? But people were afraid to

866
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:08,520
Speaker 1: bank online. But people have gotten very comfortable with it now,

867
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: so maybe a little too comfortable in some cases could

868
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: be Yeah, yeah, I think I think a large part

869
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: of it is your philosophy. If you're if you're like

870
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: a cryptoanarchist, then this type of currency would have a

871
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 1: very strong appeal, right like, Uh, there, there's I think

872
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: there's an element with not not every but many bitcoin

873
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: enthusiasts that the one of the strongest appeals is that

874
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:39,439
Speaker 1: it isn't a state backed, centralized unit of currency. Uh,

875
00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: it has this other kind of mystique to it that

876
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:49,480
Speaker 1: doesn't rely upon an authoritative force determining the value of

877
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 1: that currency. And there's that part of the appeal, and

878
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:55,839
Speaker 1: I can understand that, But I also understand that that's

879
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: a part of the appeal that really just appeals to

880
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:02,400
Speaker 1: that small segment of the population. Not everyone shares those

881
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 1: same values. So I think that that by its nature,

882
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 1: will continue to limit cryptocurrency to its relatively small population. Well, um,

883
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: here's something that you and I have both worked in

884
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: YouTube videos. YouTube has changed a lot over the last

885
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,319
Speaker 1: several years. Do you think the YouTube of one will

886
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: look remarkably different from the way it looks now? Are

887
00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 1: we going to have thousands of multi channel networks out

888
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:35,440
Speaker 1: there or will it even be possible for an independent

889
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:38,880
Speaker 1: artist to upload something and have it see an instance

890
00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 1: any sort of traction whatsoever. I think independent arts will

891
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: still be able to upload things, and things will go

892
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:47,680
Speaker 1: viral when they do, or they'll be shared if it's good.

893
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 1: I always think that great content rises to the top

894
00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 1: no matter what. But I was trying to figure out

895
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 1: what is the role of YouTube? This is separate. Didn't

896
00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 1: even look at any of your notes or questions. I

897
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:01,239
Speaker 1: was thinking about YouTube in the future. I thought the

898
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: Internet and the future is going to be super fast.

899
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 1: You're gonna have a lot of video, You're gonna see

900
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,160
Speaker 1: over the top solutions with cable companies, You're gonna have

901
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: a lot of this network television online, and then you

902
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: have YouTube. And I was trying to figure out what

903
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 1: is it going to be And the closest thing I

904
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: could come up with is I could almost see YouTube

905
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 1: becoming a network of source. They already have their own channels,

906
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: so it would be its own network with its own channels,

907
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: which is weird. I guess, kind of like HBO or

908
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,399
Speaker 1: HBO has got one, two, three, they've got kids, all

909
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. So I could see it going

910
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 1: that way where it's imagine or over the top service

911
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: that's bundling in YouTube, which should theoretically be free, but

912
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 1: maybe it's YouTube read a premium version that has the

913
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: premium content available. That's where I really see it going,

914
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:50,840
Speaker 1: because if television goes online entirely online, television should be

915
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: a part of that. So I would think YouTube somewhat

916
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: becomes a network where even though it's it's still generated

917
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 1: by a lot of independ it's there are obviously a

918
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: lot of companies putting money into it. Every now and

919
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: then you'll see a surprise hit, kind of like I

920
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,080
Speaker 1: guess if you think about it in the movie structure,

921
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: where you can have a low budget hit happen with movies,

922
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:15,040
Speaker 1: why not with television. Yeah, I can see that. I mean,

923
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,399
Speaker 1: it's a it's a weird thing to think about because

924
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have really anticipated the multi channel networks coming

925
00:52:21,200 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: up and multi channel network for those of you who

926
00:52:23,560 --> 00:52:27,720
Speaker 1: aren't familiar. Uh, It's the name pretty much gives it away.

927
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: It's a it's a network of different YouTube channels that

928
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: have banded together to make kind of a unified business.

929
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: So you may have uh, six or seven different channels

930
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 1: all bundled together under one network where you can easily

931
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 1: see the different individual channels within that network. Each of

932
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,400
Speaker 1: those individual channels might be very different from one another.

933
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: They may not be thematically linked at all. Uh. It

934
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 1: could just very well be that they've banded together and

935
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,960
Speaker 1: mostly in an attempt to tap into the same promotional

936
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 1: power so that one independent creator can take advantage of

937
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 1: an audience built by another creator. Uh. And obviously ill

938
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,160
Speaker 1: I would argue that the more closely aligned the various

939
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 1: channels are, at least in tone, if not content, the

940
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,439
Speaker 1: easier it is to migrate some of that audience over

941
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 1: so that they also adopt the new platforms. I don't

942
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 1: know if that's gonna be as strong a presence in one.

943
00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:33,520
Speaker 1: I almost see this being like another bubble, kind of

944
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: like what I was saying with the app bubbles. I

945
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 1: think we're gonna see some multi channel networks do just fine,

946
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: they'll stick around, they may even grow, they may incorporate others,

947
00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: But I think we're gonna see a lot of them collapse.

948
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: I just don't think the online business is hard. Creating

949
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: online content is not easy. It's not easy to do,

950
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 1: and it's really not easy to do successfully. Right, Like,

951
00:53:57,400 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 1: it's already it's already got a barrier. The technology barrier

952
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,640
Speaker 1: has come way down. But to do high quality content

953
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 1: is already challenging, and then to have that content be

954
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 1: discovered is growing increasingly challenging over time. Uh, particularly when

955
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 1: it comes to video. I mean, we've heard the stats

956
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 1: about how there it's more than I don't know what

957
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,239
Speaker 1: it's up to now. Last I looked, and this was

958
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:22,799
Speaker 1: months ago, so I know it's update was something like

959
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 1: a hundred and eight hours of video or uploaded to

960
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:29,240
Speaker 1: YouTube every minute. So when you start looking at that volume,

961
00:54:29,280 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: you realize the chances of being discovered out of that

962
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:35,320
Speaker 1: massive amount of stuff being put up every single minute

963
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: are are pretty pretty low. It's really really a challenge.

964
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: So I'm curious to see in one if that shakes

965
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 1: out at all, If either people abandon YouTube, you know,

966
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:50,720
Speaker 1: people who are spending a lot of time and effort

967
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,400
Speaker 1: to try and get something discovered end up walking away

968
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: from it if they don't meet with any success or

969
00:54:56,960 --> 00:54:59,399
Speaker 1: if it will just be even crazier than it is now,

970
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,640
Speaker 1: and I on se don't know, I can see it

971
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 1: go either way. You just spark my imagination here because

972
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: I was thinking the way Google has invested in deep

973
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 1: machine learning, the way Facebook has done the same thing.

974
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 1: This idea that you just said, you know, hundreds of

975
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,240
Speaker 1: hours of being uploaded like every minute, the the idea

976
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: that there's all of this content and discover ability is

977
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: really low. That's where all this deep machine learning makes

978
00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 1: a lot of sense on the back end. So if

979
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 1: you're done watching a YouTube video on whatever, you're watching

980
00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: it on the future, it will actually recommend something similar

981
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:33,680
Speaker 1: or something maybe in style, maybe in comedy, maybe just

982
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:37,879
Speaker 1: an appearance, maybe something like that, because the analysis of

983
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 1: the content should be greater at that point where this

984
00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: is actually a good problem to have. Having too much

985
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: content to go through is actually awesome. From I would

986
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:50,120
Speaker 1: think any viewers like what do I pick? I could

987
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: pick anything that that it does become very paralyzing in

988
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:56,399
Speaker 1: the fact you don't know what to pick. But if

989
00:55:56,440 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 1: these algorithms get better. If deep machine learning has figured out,

990
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: how what are the parts and components of this thing

991
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,839
Speaker 1: that you enjoyed, we can give you another one. I

992
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 1: think that maybe that's the future of YouTube networks that

993
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:13,879
Speaker 1: they have built at these these playlists essentially for you

994
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: and your interests based on your interests, because as fast

995
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 1: as the internet will get in five years, and whether

996
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:23,040
Speaker 1: you have net neutrality being a problem or not, and

997
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:26,120
Speaker 1: all these other problem concerns when you're trying to consume it,

998
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:28,759
Speaker 1: if you can't find anything, it's a problem. I really

999
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:32,520
Speaker 1: think when that happens, we'll see an improvement on this

1000
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 1: deep machine learning where you will get content that makes

1001
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 1: sense for you at that time. Yeah, curation is a

1002
00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: huge problem, right, like a like a challenge curation curating

1003
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: huge amounts of or going through an enormous amount of

1004
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: information in order to curate it and get the stuff

1005
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: that's most relevant to you. This is one of the

1006
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:55,720
Speaker 1: biggest challenges that come with big data. Uh, the idea

1007
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:58,239
Speaker 1: that yeah, you've got tons of information out there, and

1008
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,400
Speaker 1: a lot of it is potentially useful in many different ways,

1009
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: but how do you actually sort through all of that

1010
00:57:04,239 --> 00:57:06,879
Speaker 1: to get the best out of what you have, same

1011
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 1: sort of thing here that we're talking about, trying to

1012
00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 1: find the videos that are most going to resonate with you,

1013
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: whether it's from an entertainment perspective or being thought provoking,

1014
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: whatever it might be. It also reminds me a lot

1015
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,120
Speaker 1: of a patent Oswald routine where he talks about his

1016
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,360
Speaker 1: TiVo going crazy because he he used his tvo to

1017
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 1: record a Western and then his TiVo went nuts and

1018
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: started recording all the different programs that have horses in them.

1019
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 1: Uh because because it came to the conclusion that he

1020
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: must really like horses, and just shows you that machine

1021
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,760
Speaker 1: learning there is a process. It's not always perfect right

1022
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 1: out of the gate. Uh So, a couple of other

1023
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,400
Speaker 1: things I wanted to ask before we conclude this episode.

1024
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: This kind of ties into again something that we're both

1025
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:54,480
Speaker 1: concerned with as as content creators on the Internet. What

1026
00:57:54,560 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: do you think the monetization of the Internet is going

1027
00:57:57,240 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 1: to look like? In five years? We've been seeing web

1028
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:05,120
Speaker 1: advertising as the primary way for at least large companies

1029
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 1: to earn money off of creating content for the Internet,

1030
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: but we've also seen a lot of different reactions to

1031
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:15,880
Speaker 1: web advertising from the rise of ad blockers to UH

1032
00:58:15,920 --> 00:58:18,240
Speaker 1: discussions about what are the best practices. Do you think

1033
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: web advertising is going to remain the way that that

1034
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 1: large UH intent content creators are going to go. Do

1035
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: you think other methods like the Patreon method, like a

1036
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: subscriber method are going to actually grow over the years

1037
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: or is there going to be something else? Like how

1038
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: are we going to make sure that we can pay

1039
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 1: for stuff so that people keep making the stuff we like?

1040
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,640
Speaker 1: And this is this one is a really hard question

1041
00:58:46,680 --> 00:58:49,960
Speaker 1: because for years people have been conditioned that you can

1042
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:53,000
Speaker 1: get content online for free, and then it's because there

1043
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: were ads on there, and then after that it's like,

1044
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:56,720
Speaker 1: wait a second, we don't need to see ads because

1045
00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 1: we can use ad block And then you realize, wait

1046
00:58:58,480 --> 00:59:00,600
Speaker 1: a second, this company isn't get money, but I like

1047
00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:03,880
Speaker 1: this this company. Can I just white list them? Should

1048
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:05,479
Speaker 1: I do that? Or do I go to another site

1049
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 1: that reblogs it or not? So in the future, I'm

1050
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: expecting advertising isn't going anywhere the old style, you know, adds,

1051
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: the actual banner ads takeovers that kind of stuff that's

1052
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 1: gonna be there no matter what. I'd imagine you'd see

1053
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 1: much more sponsored content, uh content that's somewhat harder for

1054
00:59:25,920 --> 00:59:29,840
Speaker 1: ad blockers to find as ads. I know Facebook's doing

1055
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 1: a push with that right now where they're trying to

1056
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 1: fight ad block plus trying to make sure that they

1057
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: have as much ads that they can on their sites. Also,

1058
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:40,120
Speaker 1: like we were talking about with mobile apps, that's an

1059
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,520
Speaker 1: area where you can have a siloed application that an

1060
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:46,440
Speaker 1: ad blocker wouldn't work on in theory, so you might

1061
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,160
Speaker 1: see it that way, I would hope, and I'm actually

1062
00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: I hope. I actually think of a throwback concept of

1063
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: micro transactions where you are paying a couple of sense

1064
00:59:55,480 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: instead of having a subscription. But I see this this

1065
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 1: being the model for contents in the future. With advertising.

1066
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:04,760
Speaker 1: You'll have your standard advertising, you also have your Patreon

1067
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: method of basically paying per month what you want. I

1068
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:09,280
Speaker 1: could see a subscription thing on top of that and

1069
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 1: micro payments, in other words, allowing any single way to

1070
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: break the paywall with this either turn off your ad blocker,

1071
01:00:17,080 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 1: or pay us two cents for this, or give us

1072
01:00:19,240 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 1: a subscription for the year. I just see a lot

1073
01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: of companies being very, very open to how their content

1074
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 1: is going to be received and not just sticking forever

1075
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 1: to this. You must look at our Betterer ad and

1076
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: here is a nice little other ad that says you

1077
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 1: can't read this until you pay more money. Paywalls that

1078
01:00:34,920 --> 01:00:38,200
Speaker 1: work for other bigger companies out there. I don't think

1079
01:00:38,240 --> 01:00:41,480
Speaker 1: that they should be as high for smaller places. Yeah,

1080
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think uh. I think we're

1081
01:00:43,920 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 1: gonna see the Patreon method get adopted by more and

1082
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:52,440
Speaker 1: more smaller content creators. UM, particularly those that are working

1083
01:00:52,520 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 1: on this as a passion project as opposed to it

1084
01:00:55,840 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: being like a a a business business. This right like

1085
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,440
Speaker 1: it's they want to make money off of it, but

1086
01:01:03,560 --> 01:01:06,240
Speaker 1: they also are in it because this is something they

1087
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 1: truly want to do. UM. I see a lot of

1088
01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 1: more people going down that route. UM. I agree that

1089
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 1: we're going to see a lot of companies say, look,

1090
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: here are all the different ways that you can support us.

1091
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 1: Pick whichever way works best for you, and then we

1092
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:26,320
Speaker 1: will continue creating the stuff you like. I think that

1093
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,760
Speaker 1: is probably the I think it's gonna take us a

1094
01:01:28,760 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 1: while to get there, but I think this is the

1095
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:34,720
Speaker 1: best approach again, to just give those options to the consumer.

1096
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,920
Speaker 1: And I agree with you that we have conditioned people

1097
01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: to think that stuff on the Internet is free. Somehow

1098
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: like it it We just magically create it, and somehow

1099
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 1: we're also able to pay rent and buy food, uh,

1100
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: and that it's all wonderful and we will continue to

1101
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:58,840
Speaker 1: do so in perpetuity and we're never going to get

1102
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 1: evicted or star to death. That's not the way the

1103
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 1: world works, unfortunately. So I think we're definitely gonna see

1104
01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:08,120
Speaker 1: a lot more sponsored content. We're gonna see some branded

1105
01:02:08,520 --> 01:02:12,000
Speaker 1: content stuff that uh, you know, We're gonna see some

1106
01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 1: growing pains with people experimenting with how do I create

1107
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 1: something that serves the brand that's sponsoring me, but also

1108
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,960
Speaker 1: is of genuine value to the people listening, so it

1109
01:02:23,040 --> 01:02:26,600
Speaker 1: doesn't end up becoming a very long commercial that people

1110
01:02:26,640 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: feel like they're fooled into consuming because they hate that.

1111
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:32,880
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know that. I asked, people

1112
01:02:32,960 --> 01:02:35,680
Speaker 1: hate being tricked into watching a commercial? What's that? I

1113
01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:38,640
Speaker 1: couldn't hear you over, my beautiful citizen. What I just kidding?

1114
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 1: Right right? I was thinking a while ago, we lived

1115
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: in a world where paying for music online sounded like

1116
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: the craziest thing. You could get it as much as

1117
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:49,920
Speaker 1: you want, you could find it anywhere. But if the

1118
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:53,840
Speaker 1: cost gets low enough then people you saw that people

1119
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,120
Speaker 1: change their methods to pay per song. Now the subcription

1120
01:02:57,160 --> 01:03:00,280
Speaker 1: services are completely the way to go. So I think

1121
01:03:00,640 --> 01:03:04,439
Speaker 1: if the if the business side figures it out and goes, look,

1122
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: we can't keep it going the way it is now.

1123
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:09,400
Speaker 1: It's just not not sustainable. There's a chance that people

1124
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 1: will relearn this and then go, yes, I wouldn't. I

1125
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't take this. And I really hate saying this, but

1126
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:17,680
Speaker 1: I wouldn't just swipe a newspaper right, And there's content

1127
01:03:17,720 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: there and there's nothing wrong with charging for content that

1128
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: you make. And I'm just saying this as a content producer.

1129
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:25,480
Speaker 1: I say this as a content consumer that I do

1130
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:29,760
Speaker 1: pay for this stuff I want to see Otherwise, how

1131
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:32,080
Speaker 1: will people know you basically vote with your dollars? Is

1132
01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: my idea on that, which is like people's idea, But

1133
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 1: it's it's going to take some time. It does. There's

1134
01:03:38,240 --> 01:03:42,400
Speaker 1: just such inertia to not change anything. Yeah, but well,

1135
01:03:42,440 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 1: I mean you've got you've got billions of dollars wrapped

1136
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 1: up in an industry that is not known to be

1137
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 1: fast to react to changes. And I'm talking about the

1138
01:03:53,080 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 1: marketing industry in general, advertising industry um which has it's

1139
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,720
Speaker 1: it's it's linked to pretty much everything we're talking about

1140
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:04,640
Speaker 1: in this little little discussion. Uh And and yeah, you

1141
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:08,959
Speaker 1: can't expect it to change very quickly. And yet the

1142
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:12,880
Speaker 1: the wants of the customers are changing, and and that

1143
01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:16,640
Speaker 1: what they are willing to do changes and you have

1144
01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 1: to react to that. I think, uh you really hit

1145
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:22,120
Speaker 1: on it. The idea that if you're if the price

1146
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 1: is right and if it's easy enough to get, like

1147
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:29,680
Speaker 1: I think you have to have both of those things.

1148
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: You have to have the right price, and you have

1149
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:33,439
Speaker 1: to make it really really easy for people to buy

1150
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:37,600
Speaker 1: your stuff. Uh. DRM was a huge problem that I

1151
01:04:37,640 --> 01:04:41,240
Speaker 1: think ended up being a big negative for a lot

1152
01:04:41,240 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 1: of people, for lots of different stuff, not just music,

1153
01:04:43,440 --> 01:04:46,760
Speaker 1: but you know, various software packages, that kind of thing

1154
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: that as you make it more difficult for people to

1155
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 1: buy a legitimate copy of your product, they're going to

1156
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,680
Speaker 1: go further to get illegitimate copies because they don't have

1157
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: to deal with all the mess that comes along with

1158
01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:04,240
Speaker 1: trying to buy something legally. Uh So, making making it

1159
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:07,760
Speaker 1: is easy to get and at the right price, I

1160
01:05:07,800 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: think Urondo something like I think there I think there

1161
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:14,080
Speaker 1: might be money in that um, and people are willing

1162
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:16,520
Speaker 1: to support the stuff that they love if they feel

1163
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:21,360
Speaker 1: like the value they get back is of of equal

1164
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:23,600
Speaker 1: amount to what they're putting into it. You can't just

1165
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:26,360
Speaker 1: ask people to pay for junk and expect it to

1166
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,160
Speaker 1: go on forever. Um. I mean, it might work for

1167
01:05:29,320 --> 01:05:33,000
Speaker 1: the short term, but it's not really a long term strategy.

1168
01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:35,120
Speaker 1: You know. I have a lot of other questions that

1169
01:05:35,160 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 1: we wrote down, but this episode is going pretty long,

1170
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 1: so I just think of gonna uh to to kind

1171
01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:45,840
Speaker 1: of end on one big question, which is about accessibility.

1172
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 1: We've seen accessibility of the Internet improve quite a bit

1173
01:05:49,840 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 1: over the last five years, but we still have a

1174
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:54,120
Speaker 1: long way to go. More than half of the world's

1175
01:05:54,120 --> 01:05:57,720
Speaker 1: population does not really have access to the Internet, so

1176
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 1: there are billions of people who do not have at

1177
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:03,320
Speaker 1: least easy access to the Internet. Some of them might

1178
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 1: be able to get access with a great deal of effort,

1179
01:06:06,480 --> 01:06:09,000
Speaker 1: but you know, the more effort you have to spend,

1180
01:06:09,280 --> 01:06:13,360
Speaker 1: the smaller the returns are on actually getting that access.

1181
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,080
Speaker 1: But we're seeing a lot of projects trying to change that.

1182
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 1: So things like Google having a project Loon, and Facebook

1183
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:24,480
Speaker 1: having its proposed satellite and drone program to supply uh

1184
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:26,640
Speaker 1: Internet to lots of different parts of the world. Both

1185
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 1: of these companies have a vested interest in people getting

1186
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 1: access to the Internet. It's not like it's purely altruistic.

1187
01:06:33,240 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 1: But do you think that we're going to see near

1188
01:06:37,320 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: universal access to the Internet. Eric Schmidt of Google fame

1189
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 1: said back in two thousand and thirteen he thought by

1190
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:46,720
Speaker 1: everyone would have access. Do you think that's a little

1191
01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 1: Do you think it's realistic or is that a little ambitious?

1192
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: I think it's both. And considering how Google it is

1193
01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:56,200
Speaker 1: a company in Facebook, and as you mentioned, they're vested

1194
01:06:56,200 --> 01:06:59,840
Speaker 1: interesting being relatively strong on this, I'm gonna boldly say

1195
01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:04,440
Speaker 1: by there's going to be universal accents whether it's the

1196
01:07:04,520 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 1: thing is about receiving it, so you can have the

1197
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 1: earth covered an Internet via balloon or satellite wherever you

1198
01:07:10,920 --> 01:07:14,040
Speaker 1: want to use. The fact that hardware has gotten so cheap,

1199
01:07:14,040 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 1: like Android one phones, we're seeing stories about five dollar

1200
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 1: cell phones. It wasn't so long ago that I was

1201
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:22,600
Speaker 1: excited reading about the one laptop per child projects, which

1202
01:07:22,640 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 1: at this point seems kind of not antiquated but kind

1203
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 1: of silly because how you, yeah, you can get so

1204
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: much more power now with phones and low end phones

1205
01:07:32,080 --> 01:07:33,920
Speaker 1: these days, like oh well this is this is a

1206
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 1: piece of junk phone. I wouldn't buy this, But they

1207
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,640
Speaker 1: have gotten so cheap and so available to so many

1208
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:42,600
Speaker 1: different areas that it's the other half of the equation.

1209
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:45,640
Speaker 1: Just having wireless and some kind of access to it

1210
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 1: is one thing, but having the hardware out there, I

1211
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:52,520
Speaker 1: think that is going to get there by Maybe I

1212
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:55,200
Speaker 1: could see that happening where these devices are so cheap

1213
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:57,720
Speaker 1: that it's just something you have. You should have this.

1214
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: At this point, it's almost like a hand or this

1215
01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:03,200
Speaker 1: could be talking about because it's like a hand you

1216
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:04,760
Speaker 1: want to make sure you have this device with you

1217
01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:07,120
Speaker 1: at all times, or Swiss army knife. You have to

1218
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:12,520
Speaker 1: have it. And with Google and Facebook consistently going ahead now,

1219
01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 1: I don't see Google and Facebook being like all the

1220
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:19,880
Speaker 1: Vista and my Space. They seem to have enough power

1221
01:08:20,000 --> 01:08:21,680
Speaker 1: behind them that they can keep going for a good

1222
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:24,960
Speaker 1: another five years. You would say they're too big to fail. No,

1223
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,599
Speaker 1: that's not what I'm saying. I think I think they're

1224
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 1: they're motivated enough, and they are. There's another There's that

1225
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 1: company we talked about, Comcast, that's a rag on that much.

1226
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:37,759
Speaker 1: Their method of change isn't what I see from Google

1227
01:08:37,840 --> 01:08:41,519
Speaker 1: or Facebook. Those two companies work to get more and

1228
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 1: more coverage and they're going for bigger goals than just

1229
01:08:45,080 --> 01:08:49,520
Speaker 1: the short term shareholder uh numbers. Right, Because with Comcast,

1230
01:08:49,640 --> 01:08:51,960
Speaker 1: what what their strategy was, and this isn't a secret.

1231
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,120
Speaker 1: I mean I covered this in in a deep episode

1232
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 1: series about how Comcast works. The Comcast story. The way

1233
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,519
Speaker 1: that they're company traditionally would grow is they would go

1234
01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:07,520
Speaker 1: out and buy other companies. They weren't creating new markets.

1235
01:09:07,520 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 1: They were purchasing the companies that were serving markets they

1236
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 1: weren't in yet. So that's a very different strategy, as

1237
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:18,080
Speaker 1: you point out, right, because once you get to a

1238
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:20,040
Speaker 1: point where you bought up pretty much everyone you can

1239
01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:25,160
Speaker 1: buy without facing massive resistance on a on a regulatory side,

1240
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 1: you can't you can't grow anymore. You have to create,

1241
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:34,320
Speaker 1: you can't just buy other stuff. And really the Comcast

1242
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:40,520
Speaker 1: history was pretty much uh just stuck in that mentality

1243
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 1: of buy other companies that are already doing what we do,

1244
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:47,080
Speaker 1: and now we that those customers become our customers. That's

1245
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,720
Speaker 1: how you grow your customer base. This is a very

1246
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 1: different approach. I I love the idea of everyone having

1247
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,960
Speaker 1: access by one. I mean, the implications of that are

1248
01:09:58,080 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 1: so far beyond just having the ability to finally access

1249
01:10:02,320 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 1: the Internet. We've seen the Internet play a an incredibly

1250
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:13,639
Speaker 1: important part in massive historical moments throughout the last five years.

1251
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 1: I mean, the Arab spring alone was such a huge story,

1252
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:20,639
Speaker 1: and I imagine that we'll see more stories like that,

1253
01:10:20,920 --> 01:10:26,720
Speaker 1: particularly as access to the Internet becomes closer to being universal,

1254
01:10:27,320 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 1: and I find that encouraging. I think there's going to

1255
01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 1: be a lot of tumultuous problems along the way, but

1256
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:37,480
Speaker 1: I find that when you get this level of communication,

1257
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 1: this incredibly powerful tool in people's hands, then amazing things

1258
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:48,720
Speaker 1: can happen. Uh not all of them involving videos of

1259
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 1: cute cats. That's just a bonus. But that's my own

1260
01:10:54,000 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 1: personal kind of optimistic view. Um. I as, thank you

1261
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:03,320
Speaker 1: so much for joining the show today and and sticking

1262
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:05,680
Speaker 1: your neck out to look out and say, what's it

1263
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:08,200
Speaker 1: gonna be like in five years. I look forward in

1264
01:11:09,200 --> 01:11:12,920
Speaker 1: to calling you up and going over these results wherever

1265
01:11:12,920 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 1: I wherever I'll be, I'll have access to the Internet.

1266
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:17,080
Speaker 1: So it will be a problem, that's true. Yeah, it

1267
01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 1: won't matter like if you're taking a vacation in Antarctica,

1268
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:24,719
Speaker 1: I know that I'll be able to have you chat,

1269
01:11:24,840 --> 01:11:26,800
Speaker 1: maybe have a couple of penguins in the background, and

1270
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:31,240
Speaker 1: we'll have a Hopefully my connection doesn't freeze. Yeah, that's

1271
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 1: that's great. That's great. Leave the puns to me, chuckle heads,

1272
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:38,639
Speaker 1: all right, Yes, please tell people where they can find

1273
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 1: your work, you guys, go to see net dot com.

1274
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:44,919
Speaker 1: We've got lots of great news how to use reviews.

1275
01:11:45,439 --> 01:11:47,639
Speaker 1: You can also check out top five dot net dot com.

1276
01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:49,840
Speaker 1: If I want to promote top five, which I do,

1277
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:53,479
Speaker 1: count down a fun see netlist every week at top

1278
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:55,920
Speaker 1: five dots net dot com. And if you want to

1279
01:11:55,960 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 1: hear I as talk about stuff with me uh and

1280
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: uh in a format that's not safe for work, you

1281
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:07,120
Speaker 1: can always check out our podcast Without Pretense with Eric

1282
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 1: sandean Our, our our third host. Um. But it is

1283
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:14,800
Speaker 1: not It is not not a polite show at all.

1284
01:12:15,880 --> 01:12:23,800
Speaker 1: But but it does exist. It is a thing that happens. Uh. Yeah,

1285
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 1: we we named it this year in two thousand and sixteen,

1286
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:28,559
Speaker 1: we named it the best podcast for two thousand fourteen.

1287
01:12:28,600 --> 01:12:29,960
Speaker 1: So that tells you all you need to know about

1288
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,799
Speaker 1: that show. Alright, so, guys, if you have any questions, comments,

1289
01:12:33,800 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 1: suggestions for future episodes, please get in touch with me.

1290
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:40,040
Speaker 1: The email address is tech stuff at how stuff works

1291
01:12:40,040 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 1: dot com, or drop me a line on Facebook or Twitter.

1292
01:12:43,240 --> 01:12:45,799
Speaker 1: The handle at both of those locations is tech stuff

1293
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:50,120
Speaker 1: H s W and I'll talk to you again really soon.

1294
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 1: For more on this and bothands of other topics is

1295
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com w w W