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Speaker 1: Welcome to two percent. I'm your host Michael Easter So storytime.

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Speaker 1: My editor from my books The Comfort Crisis and Scarcity Brand.

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Speaker 2: His name is Matthew Benjamin.

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Speaker 1: About a year ago he started hitting me up incessantly

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Speaker 1: about this new book that he was editing. The book

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Speaker 1: is called The Stimulated Mind. It is by doctor Tommy Wood,

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Speaker 1: who is a neuroscientist. He's a performance coach who has

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Speaker 1: worked with F one teams, and he is an elite

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Speaker 1: level NERD. So Matthew tells me all these amazing things

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Speaker 1: about this book. I say, all right, send me a copy.

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Speaker 2: I'll read it.

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Speaker 1: I'm skeptical, but I read it, and this book, The

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Speaker 1: Stimulated Mind, is incredible. It has totally changed my thinking

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Speaker 1: and my behavior around what I'm doing right now to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit sharper, but more importantly, how I

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Speaker 1: can stay sharp as I age. So it turns out

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Speaker 1: cognitive decline as you age is not inevitable, but it

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Speaker 1: really depends on what you are doing right now.

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Speaker 2: So we are going to.

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Speaker 1: Bring on doctor Tommy Wood to talk to us about

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Speaker 1: about how you can increase your mental performance now and

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Speaker 1: keep it for years to come. Because I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: this my mind is a terrible thing to lose. So

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Speaker 1: if we listen to doctor Tommy Wood, we won't lose it.

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Speaker 1: That's all I said, bringing on Tommy right now.

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Speaker 2: All right, Tommy, thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 3: Man, super excited to be here. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 3: having me.

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Speaker 1: So it's a really fantastic book. I loved how you

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Speaker 1: brought it all together. There's so much research, but I

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Speaker 1: think what makes the book what I loved most about

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Speaker 1: it is there's so many books written by scientists who

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Speaker 1: are working in universities in labs, but the experience is

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Speaker 1: often happening only in the lab. And I think what

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Speaker 1: makes you interesting is you are out in the real

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Speaker 1: world working with all these different groups, having to apply

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Speaker 1: what you're learning in this free, living, crazy environment that

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Speaker 1: is like the human lab of life. How did you

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Speaker 1: start working with different groups? So you've worked with like

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Speaker 1: f one teams, and what is that like? And how

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Speaker 1: do you think about like marrying those two things.

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Speaker 3: It's funny because for most of my career I also

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Speaker 3: saw those as two completely separate things. So I was,

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Speaker 3: you know, first of those training as a doctor and

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Speaker 3: then my PhD and I'm doing euroscience research in the lab,

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Speaker 3: and there's like this group of people in the world

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Speaker 3: who know me as a neuroscientist and doing animal models

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Speaker 3: and mechanism work and all this kind of stuff. And

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Speaker 3: then there's this other group of people who know me

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Speaker 3: as you know, a coach, and I'm helping them with

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Speaker 3: blood work and nutrition and recovery tactics and stuff. And like,

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Speaker 3: even I myself didn't necessarily see that they that they

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Speaker 3: connected for a long period of time. And it's not

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Speaker 3: it's not the fault of most scientists that right, they're

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Speaker 3: just kind of like stuck in the lab. It's kind

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Speaker 3: of just how our careers progress totally. And so I

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Speaker 3: my career has progressed much more slowly because I was

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Speaker 3: doing multiple things at the same time. But I do

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Speaker 3: think that we lose a lot as scientists as and

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Speaker 3: often as doctors as well, because we only get this

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Speaker 3: very small snapshot and we never see how this is

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Speaker 3: like being acted out in the real world.

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Speaker 1: How is the work with sort of in the field,

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Speaker 1: How has it informed your research and what you're doing

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Speaker 1: in the lab.

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Speaker 3: So most of my work with athletes is in formula

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Speaker 3: one working with drivers, but also do some work with

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Speaker 3: other aspects of the teams, and this is part of

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Speaker 3: a big group of people, right. We have doctors, we

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Speaker 3: have coaches, we have psychologists, a variety of different performance

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Speaker 3: experts who come in and out depending on the expertise

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Speaker 3: that we need. And one thing that I've really taken

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Speaker 3: away from that is is that the problems that even

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Speaker 3: an elite athlete faces, even though they've eliminated a lot

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Speaker 3: of friction that or they can eliminate a lot of

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Speaker 3: friction that we might get when we're thinking about behavior

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Speaker 3: change or instituting some kind of new intervention, a lot

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Speaker 3: of the problems are essentially the same. They're short on time,

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Speaker 3: they're pulled in multiple directions, they're stressed, they don't sleep enough.

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Speaker 3: And so then it then it's much more about how

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Speaker 3: do I figure out the one thing that's most likely

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Speaker 3: to be beneficial, Like what's the thing that's actually gonna

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Speaker 3: gonna move the needle. So like the first time I

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Speaker 3: went in too formula once and I'm more a decade ago,

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Speaker 3: I showed up with like one hundred things. I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I'm ready, I've got all the tips, I've got all

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Speaker 3: the papers, Like I'm gonna just like throw all this

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Speaker 3: stuff at you. And then one of the you know,

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Speaker 3: really kind of experienced coaches who now have sort of

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Speaker 3: taken over a lot of the performance side at this company.

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Speaker 3: I work with Hintter Performance, and he worked with multiple

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Speaker 3: world champions and he was he said, we've got time

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Speaker 3: for maybe one thing maybe, So like, what's the one

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Speaker 3: thing that we that we should think about? And so

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Speaker 3: the way that this is kind of influenced my research

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Speaker 3: in the lab is trying to think about how do

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Speaker 3: we figure out what's the most important lever to pull here?

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Speaker 3: How do different and then and then it's how do

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Speaker 3: different things interact? And this is something that I think

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Speaker 3: we're missing from a lot of research. When we're talking

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Speaker 3: about whatever it is, we try and find this one

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Speaker 3: thing and this is going to be the intervention point.

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Speaker 3: This is where the drug is going to act, or

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Speaker 3: this is the mechanism. This I'm going to tell you

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Speaker 3: to take this supplement, and this is how it's going

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Speaker 3: to act. But in reality, it's this complicated network of

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Speaker 3: things that right, if you have more of this, then

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Speaker 3: you need less of this, and they kind of offset

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Speaker 3: each other in so then it's just you know, helping

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Speaker 3: you helping me think about how do you figure out

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Speaker 3: what's going to be the most impactful thing for one person,

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Speaker 3: and often it's just what's the thing they're actually going

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Speaker 3: to do, right, And that's where it comes down to, Right,

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Speaker 3: that one thing that you're going to start with, are

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Speaker 3: they actually going to do it? Then you know is

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Speaker 3: it going to have an impact?

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Speaker 1: Do you see carry over when the average person and

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Speaker 1: F one drivers, Like, what is the thing that you

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Speaker 1: would be giving F one drivers? Whe it was like

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Speaker 1: the one thing and is that similar to the average

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Speaker 1: person what the average person needs?

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Speaker 3: It depends a little bit on the scenario and where

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Speaker 3: you are kind of in the life in the life course,

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Speaker 3: but there's the kind of the balance between stimulus or

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Speaker 3: training and then recovery and adaptations. So like you don't

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Speaker 3: get stronger in the gym, you get stronger when you

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Speaker 3: sleep and recover afterwards, right, And the brain kind of

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Speaker 3: seems to be the same. And so the average F

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Speaker 3: one driver gets plenty of stimulus training driving that car

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Speaker 3: engineering meetings, right, they're constantly learning, constantly getting better, constantly

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Speaker 3: working on their skills both in terms of driving, but

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Speaker 3: then you know on the engineering and design side as well,

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Speaker 3: because they're sort of involved in that process because they

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Speaker 3: they're the only people who can like give real feedback

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Speaker 3: of how the car is driving, So they don't need

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Speaker 3: more of that, Like they got that covered it then

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Speaker 3: it's much more about how are we getting the most

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Speaker 3: out of what they are doing, how we making sure

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Speaker 3: they're recovering so that they can then apply the skills

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Speaker 3: that they're they're learning or have learned. And you know,

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Speaker 3: I've I've been sent wearable data by drivers, you know,

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Speaker 3: from sleep and they're like, you know, I'm worried about

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Speaker 3: the amount of remsleep that I'm getting. Can you look

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Speaker 3: at my data and like, how can we improve that?

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Speaker 3: And you just see they're spending five hours in bed,

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Speaker 3: and you spend five hours in bed, you'll get less

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Speaker 3: remsleep because rem sleep tends to happen towards the end

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Speaker 3: of the night. And you're like, if you're short on sleep,

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Speaker 3: your body will prioritize deep sleep usually, And that's the

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Speaker 3: same for like so many people right the reason why

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Speaker 3: they're not sleeping enough is they're not spending enough time

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Speaker 3: in bed. So like you see these same hurdles popping

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Speaker 3: up again and again, and so like for people you know,

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Speaker 3: working doing complex jobs. They're they're they're getting plenty of

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Speaker 3: kind of inputs to the brain, your people in their thirties, forties, fifties.

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Speaker 3: But you what they're not doing enough of for their

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Speaker 3: brains at least is actually giving themselves time to switch off,

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Speaker 3: you know, not do anything where they're juggling multiple screens,

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Speaker 3: multiple inputs, emails, slack, teams, Instagram, and they're not giving

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Speaker 3: themselves enough time to kind of probably sleep at night.

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Speaker 3: So that's in that part of the life course. That's

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Speaker 3: that's what I see most often, and it's very similar

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Speaker 3: between those two groups.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not enough sleep, too much time on thinking, being

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Speaker 1: simulated by all the stuff that comes in. When I

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Speaker 1: was when I was talking to Matthew Are Mutual editor,

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Speaker 1: he told me, and you can correct me if he's

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Speaker 1: just making this up, he told me that in your

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Speaker 1: own life, sleep is a is probably your main priority.

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Speaker 2: Like, if it comes down.

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Speaker 1: To I could get five hours of sleep and I

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Speaker 1: wake up and lift, I'd rather take seven hours of

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Speaker 1: sleep and maybefore go or workout or two.

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Speaker 3: Is that correct at this point in my life? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, life gets too busy or whatever. You know,

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Speaker 3: I can I can do five minutes of something, any

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Speaker 3: kind of movement, and then but but get another hour

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Speaker 3: or two of sleep, I know I'll do much better. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: at some point I want to get back in the gym,

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Speaker 3: But when it gets like that, that's that's kind of

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Speaker 3: my choice and in and I think that that definitely

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Speaker 3: supports how I function best. In the book, I have

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Speaker 3: this idea of the traffic light system that I've I

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Speaker 3: took from my friend Simon Marshall, who was a behavioral

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Speaker 3: psychologist and worked with a lot of elite athletes like

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Speaker 3: pro cycling teams and the Tour de France and people

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Speaker 3: like that. The idea is to just kind of separate

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Speaker 3: out your different health supporting behaviors based on what you're

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Speaker 3: going to keep as things get crazy, which they will sometimes.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, right, So like green is what you do

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Speaker 3: all the time, right, you can you can work out,

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Speaker 3: you can sleep, you can do your meditation, if you meditate,

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Speaker 3: all that, you cook your own food, all that kind

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Speaker 3: of stuff. Yellow is when things starts to get a

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Speaker 3: bit busy, Like how how do you adapt it? So

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Speaker 3: then you so then you might say, well, I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to do a two hour workout, but here's what

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Speaker 3: I can do in thirty minutes, or here are like

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Speaker 3: really easy take out items or things that I can

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Speaker 3: have in the freezer that I can eat I if

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Speaker 3: I can't cook, like just to prepare for that because

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Speaker 3: it's going to happen. And then red is like you

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Speaker 3: have to work eighteen hour days, or your spouse is

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Speaker 3: sick in the hospital or something like, And what's the

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Speaker 3: one thing that you do to kind of keep you anchored?

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Speaker 3: So for me, it'll be like, can I focus on sleep?

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Speaker 3: And that's important because what happens is when we get busy,

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Speaker 3: we start we can start to catastrophize or I can't

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Speaker 3: do all the things that I need to do, and

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Speaker 3: therefore I'm not going to perform well. Right, that's going

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Speaker 3: to make us not perform well because we think we

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Speaker 3: won't perform well, or we just give up entirely. So

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Speaker 3: if you just say, right, this is what happens, these

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Speaker 3: are the things I'm going to do. Forget about everything else.

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Speaker 3: I'll come back to them when things settle down again,

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Speaker 3: you're prepared. You know what you know what to do

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Speaker 3: when life starts to throw stuff out you, which it's

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Speaker 3: going to do. And that just makes it that much easy,

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Speaker 3: and you know that you're going to at least have

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Speaker 3: one or two anchors that are going to sort of

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Speaker 3: like keep you grounded as you know sleep gets short

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Speaker 3: or stress gets high. And then the last part, because

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Speaker 3: so much of this does actually come down to psychology,

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Speaker 3: like people the information people have some some good idea

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Speaker 3: of or like what is going to be important for

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Speaker 3: brain health, cogacy function, et cetera. But I know that

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Speaker 3: I've like built a pretty good set of you know,

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Speaker 3: habits and environments that kind of support my my my

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Speaker 3: functioning over time. So I know that I'm now more

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Speaker 3: resilient to like things like this to the to the

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Speaker 3: red times, and I've built up capacity that I can

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Speaker 3: draw on when I need to, as long as I

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Speaker 3: then eventually go back and recover from it when when

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Speaker 3: time allows.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you're putting in time during the green

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Speaker 1: light periods. You're kind of like building yourself going, all right,

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Speaker 1: I know I'm going to hit some yellows, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to hit some reds, but when I do inevitably hit

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Speaker 1: a yellow, I've got a great foundation that like I'm

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Speaker 1: still going to be fine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And knowing that you'll be fine is part of that.

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Speaker 3: Key is key to that, because if you think that

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Speaker 3: you won't, then you won't totally.

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Speaker 1: I feel like one of the sort of the big

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Speaker 1: overarching argument of the book, and correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 1: is that we seem to think that cognitive decline is

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Speaker 1: this inevitable thing, just like you're going to get old,

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Speaker 1: your brain's going to go to shit, that's that good

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Speaker 1: luck out there. But you really argue in the book

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Speaker 1: that that isn't the case, and it really just sort

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Speaker 1: of depends on what inputs are you giving your brain

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Speaker 1: and how are you thinking about this long term?

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Speaker 2: Is that correct?

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Speaker 3: As a society, we've embodied this idea of what aging

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Speaker 3: looks like, right, and that is generally tied to some

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Speaker 3: amount of physical and cognitive decline. So we expect it,

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Speaker 3: and therefore I believe we stop doing the things that

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Speaker 3: could slow it down. It's not going to prevent it entirely. Right.

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Speaker 3: We can't stop the aging process, we know that, but

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Speaker 3: we can slow it down or more accurately for many

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Speaker 3: of the things, is we cannot do the things that

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Speaker 3: speed it up, which include a low quality diet, being sedentary,

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Speaker 3: not sleeping well, et cetera. So it's this kind of expectation.

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Speaker 3: I think that's driving a lot of it, because you know,

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Speaker 3: you might think I'm too old to do that. I

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Speaker 3: can't learn that new thing, I can't go to the GM,

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Speaker 3: I'll get injured. Whereas those activities, learning new skills, being

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Speaker 3: physically active will help to maintain function. Right. The body

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Speaker 3: is constantly adapting its function to the inputs it's receiving.

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Speaker 3: So the demands you place on your tissues, including your brain,

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Speaker 3: then determine how they function. And we can go back

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Speaker 3: to some really nice studies that were started in the

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Speaker 3: nineteen fifties. So there's one study that I mentioned called

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Speaker 3: the Seattle Longitudinal Study. It was run by Warner Shy

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Speaker 3: out of the University of Washington and started in the

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Speaker 3: nineteen fifties, and it was one of the first studies

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Speaker 3: to look at the same people over decades, because before

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Speaker 3: then you might take a big group of people and

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Speaker 3: measure how their brains work, and yeah, you'd see the

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Speaker 3: seventy year olds didn't perform as well as the thirty

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Speaker 3: year olds. So then on average, right, and this is

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Speaker 3: all based on averages, but that's very different from saying

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Speaker 3: how is my brain going to function in thirty years time.

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Speaker 3: And so they brought the same people back every seven

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Speaker 3: years in this study, and what they saw is that

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Speaker 3: the majority, by which I mean more than fifty percent

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Speaker 3: of people maintained brain function from their fifties into their eighties.

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Speaker 3: And nowadays we call those people superages, like we have

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Speaker 3: a we have a name for it. That's scientific definition,

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Speaker 3: is people who maintained the cognitive function of their fifties

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Speaker 3: into their eighties. And what we saw in Warner Shi's

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Speaker 3: work is that cardiovascularrisktractors and what they called environmental complexity,

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Speaker 3: which is the nature of your work, environment, home, environment,

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Speaker 3: your hobbies, these were like some significant determinants of how

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Speaker 3: likely you were to decline over time. And so now

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Speaker 3: if we look at superage research, what do superages do?

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Speaker 3: They remain They remain coggossy engaged, they have hobbies, they

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Speaker 3: remain socially engaged, they avoid metabolic disease, they sleep well,

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Speaker 3: and they're physically active. Right, none of that requires superhuman effort,

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Speaker 3: and it shouldn't it shouldn't be unusual. And so we've

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Speaker 3: known this for decades. We're just starting to kind of

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Speaker 3: put those pieces together and hopefully that will allow people

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Speaker 3: to reframe what it looks like to get older and

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Speaker 3: know that they do have some agency in what that

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Speaker 3: looks like.

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Speaker 1: This made me think about my mom. She's seventy seven,

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Speaker 1: she retire. Well, here's the thing. So she was planning

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Speaker 1: to totally retire at seventy five. So she was an

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Speaker 1: independent salesperson for women's clothes basically, so she had a

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Speaker 1: bunch of lines across her career that she would sell

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Speaker 1: the stories who would then sell it to people who

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Speaker 1: wear the clothes. But she worked a long time in

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Speaker 1: the old age, and seventy five she's like, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to retire. And I'm like, great, get rid of

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Speaker 1: it all. You're done, she tells me. She retires, and

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Speaker 1: then a couple months later she's like, well, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to tell you the truth. I kept one line. It's

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Speaker 1: like a low lift line. I was like, oh, come on, mom,

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Speaker 1: just like just let it go, just kind of do nothing.

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Speaker 1: And then I read your book and I'm like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, keeping that one line. That's not this massive

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Speaker 1: amount of effort. That's not like she's not working, you know,

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Speaker 1: sixty hours a week like she did her entire life.

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Speaker 1: But she's like, you know, five ten hours a week.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, actually, that might have been a good thing.

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Speaker 1: So it just made me think about because you talk

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Speaker 1: about retirement and how it's been framed, so kind of

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Speaker 1: tell us about, you know, the upsides and downsides of

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Speaker 1: retirement and what people as they sort of think about retiring,

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Speaker 1: or if they are retiring right now, should be thinking

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Speaker 1: about doing.

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Speaker 3: In the book, I cool retirement the worst idea of

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Speaker 3: the brain. The brain never encountered. And I go back

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Speaker 3: to the history of retirement, which didn't really get popularized

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Speaker 3: until the beginning of the twentieth century. Other societies had

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Speaker 3: like military pensions for those who'd served in the military,

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Speaker 3: but for like the average worker, retirement really wasn't a

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Speaker 3: thing until one hundred or so years ago. And what

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Speaker 3: we do see is that in multiple population studies and

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Speaker 3: some like modeling studies done as well using like US data,

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Speaker 3: the period of most rapid cognitive decline seems to be retirement.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I don't work with patients anymore, but

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Speaker 3: when I speak to the doctors working in that kind

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Speaker 3: of population, people around retirement or recently retired, either as

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Speaker 3: primary care physicians or neurology, geriatrics, that's when they start

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Speaker 3: to see people decline as well. So we sort of

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Speaker 3: see it in the data and we see it from

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Speaker 3: clinical experien and it kind of makes sense because if

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Speaker 3: the brain is functioning based on the inputs we give it,

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Speaker 3: and if your work is the primary place where you

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Speaker 3: get social contact, social interaction, you're problem solving learning, you know,

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Speaker 3: all the sort of like skills that you've developed in

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Speaker 3: your career, you're expressing them right, which we know is

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Speaker 3: important to maintain function. And you remove that, then you

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Speaker 3: remove the primary driver of whatever you know cognitive you know,

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Speaker 3: or a large chunk of the cognitive functions that you have.

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Speaker 3: And so there are studies that show that particularly early

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Speaker 3: retirement is associated with an increased risk of dementia after

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Speaker 3: you account for things like medical conditions that might that

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Speaker 3: might force you to retire early. So I think this

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Speaker 3: kind of makes sense when we're thinking about the brain

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Speaker 3: constantly matching inputs to function. So then I'm not saying

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Speaker 3: that people like you're welcome to your well earned retirement

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Speaker 3: if you want it like that. I'm not telling you

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Speaker 3: have to work forever if you don't want to, but

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Speaker 3: you have to think about replacing work with similarly engaging

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Speaker 3: or stimulating activities. So do you start to learn a

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Speaker 3: new skill, do you pick up a new sport, Do

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Speaker 3: you go and volunteer? Do you go and learn a language?

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Speaker 3: You know, reading is an important one. Do you have

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Speaker 3: a collection of skills and hobbies that you can kind

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Speaker 3: of stay engaged with that's the most important thing, and

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Speaker 3: maybe starting to think about that before actually retirement hits,

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Speaker 3: because you may end up with like a chunk of

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Speaker 3: time where you're just like sitting around wondering what to do,

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Speaker 3: and you know already you're sort of like potentially falling behind.

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Speaker 3: So there's kind of this transition period maybe where you're

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Speaker 3: thinking about what's going to come next and think about

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Speaker 3: some of the things you might want to do instead.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the problem isn't inherently retirement. It's retirement when you go, okay,

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Speaker 1: well so I'm just going to kind of sit around

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Speaker 1: and do nothing, where really it's like, okay, this is

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Speaker 1: just sort of a new chapter.

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Speaker 2: What new things can I do?

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Speaker 1: What cool things that I've been putting off, Whether it's

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Speaker 1: I'm going to learn Spanish, I'm going to take up dancing,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to volunteer.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to just.

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Speaker 1: Do something that challenges me. Ideally, it has some other

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Speaker 1: people involved to kind of keep pushing the ball forward

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Speaker 1: and challenging myself.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So the book is called The Stimulated Mind, and you

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Speaker 1: have some sections where you talk about how much information

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Speaker 1: we're exposed to.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I was writing Scarcity Brain a few

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Speaker 1: years ago, I came upon this study, and who knows

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Speaker 1: if it's correct, but I think it's sort of directionally

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Speaker 1: correct that the average person today is exposed to more

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Speaker 1: information than a person in the fourteen hundreds may have

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Speaker 1: seen their entire life. Now, again, who knows if that's

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Speaker 1: perfectly correct. At the same time, I think we can say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's probably directionally correct. How do you think about like

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Speaker 1: this information sphere that we live in, especially information that

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Speaker 1: comes out as fast that comes through a screen, How

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Speaker 1: is that affecting our brain and how we age?

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Speaker 3: So I think I say something very similar in my book.

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Speaker 3: I didn't put a number on it on purpose because

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Speaker 3: I was like, I have no idea how you quantify

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Speaker 3: these things. But what I write now is it is

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Speaker 3: probably going to be even worse in six months time,

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Speaker 3: when the book actually gets published, right. But I think

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Speaker 3: that's I think that's absolutely true. The amount of information,

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Speaker 3: plus how we're expected to use information has certainly changed significantly,

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Speaker 3: and there are some really interesting studies that show that

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Speaker 3: how we use an access information has changed as a result.

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Speaker 3: So you might have heard of these classic studies by

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Speaker 3: Betsy Sparrow that resulted in the naming of something called

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Speaker 3: the Google effect, which is that you're less likely to

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Speaker 3: remember the information, you're more likely to remember where that

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Speaker 3: information is stored. And they showed this through a variety

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Speaker 3: of studies. So if people thought that a computer would

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Speaker 3: save a piece of information, they were less likely to

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Speaker 3: remember that information, but more likely to remember where stored

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Speaker 3: in the computer. That doesn't mean that our memories aren't working.

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Speaker 3: You're still remembering something. It's just that now we've gotten

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Speaker 3: to a point where there's so much information that we

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Speaker 3: just can't retain all of it. It's much more about

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Speaker 3: like remembering the little tags that allow us to go

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Speaker 3: and find that information. And I don't think that's good

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Speaker 3: or bad. I think that we're going to have to

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Speaker 3: shift how we use our brains to kind of deal

434
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:27,240
Speaker 3: with these with these new technologies. So that's something that

435
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 3: we've seen and that's something that we'll probably continue. And

436
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,639
Speaker 3: I'm not so concerned about that because we're still exercising

437
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 3: our memory. We're still actually having to remember something that's

438
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,320
Speaker 3: in that setting. And I think that's fine. But what

439
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:45,159
Speaker 3: you see when we then start to bring in technologies

440
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 3: that require us or allow us to not think, that's

441
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,880
Speaker 3: where I think we we're going to start to potentially

442
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 3: get into trouble. So people now I'm talking about and

443
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 3: exactly I'm talking about AI. So the main kind of

444
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 3: idea if we want to maintain funk coggnitive function long term,

445
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 3: is that we have to engage in things that require

446
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,719
Speaker 3: us to use and build those functions right. And there

447
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 3: are so many different ways to do that. There are

448
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 3: so many different ways to use your memory. There are

449
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:21,240
Speaker 3: so many different ways to use your decision making and

450
00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,439
Speaker 3: train your brain or maintain processing speed so you can

451
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,479
Speaker 3: rapidly process information. Right. You can do it through dancing

452
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 3: or pickaball or video games right, all of these things

453
00:23:30,359 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 3: are options, but you still need to engage in something

454
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 3: that's cognitive demanding and cognitively challenging. So then mindlessly scrolling

455
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:43,440
Speaker 3: through stuff on social media does not provide that kind

456
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,719
Speaker 3: of cognitive friction or challenge. Again, I don't think it's

457
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 3: necessarily bad. You could use it as like a five

458
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 3: minute kind of break switch off, Like there is some

459
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,040
Speaker 3: evidence that that's okay in the setting of a bigger

460
00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,159
Speaker 3: kind of cognitively challenging day. But when that becomes everything,

461
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:04,359
Speaker 3: you're not actually building and maintaining these cognitive skills. And

462
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 3: then the same thing becomes true with AI. And this

463
00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:12,879
Speaker 3: is another area where like, what does it look like

464
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 3: in six months or two years? I genuinely have no idea,

465
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 3: but there's a framework that I think is really useful

466
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,720
Speaker 3: that I've borrowed from a colleague of mine, ken Ford,

467
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,399
Speaker 3: who's been an expert in AI for like thirty plus

468
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 3: years at this point, and he talks about this idea

469
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 3: of cognitive prosthetics versus cognitive authotics, and an authotic is

470
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 3: something that you use to enhance current capabilities. So when

471
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,719
Speaker 3: I think of authotics, I think of shoes for somebody

472
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 3: with cerebral palsy. If you have cerebral palsy, all right,

473
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 3: most of control is affected. You might not be able

474
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 3: to walk normally, but you could put somebody in a

475
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 3: in a shoe or something else that allows them to walk.

476
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 3: You've built on their current capabilities, right, you've expanded their capacity.

477
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,879
Speaker 3: A prosthetic is something that you use instead of something

478
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 3: that you don't have. Right, So if you have a

479
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 3: prosthetic leg, it's because you're missing parts or all of

480
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 3: your leg, and so you can use AI tools to

481
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 3: enhance to enhance capacity. So it would be if you

482
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,479
Speaker 3: do some kind of piece of work. And the studies

483
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 3: they've done looking at this are like writing students writing essays.

484
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 3: You write the essay first, you make the presentation first,

485
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,119
Speaker 3: you write the blog post first, whatever it is, You

486
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,880
Speaker 3: do what you can with the skills that you have,

487
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 3: and then you say to Claude or whichever LLLM you like,

488
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,440
Speaker 3: what have I missed? What could I be thinking of? Differently?

489
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 3: What should I add? What have I got wrong? And

490
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 3: then you get that feedback and you incorporate it yourself.

491
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,159
Speaker 3: So all of this requires you to interact with it

492
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 3: and you know, actually apply your brain that to that process.

493
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 3: And when you do that in the small studies that

494
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 3: haven't done so far, the first of all, the act

495
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 3: of doing the work in the first place activates those

496
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 3: networks in the brain associated with it. It's more unique because

497
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,080
Speaker 3: it's like based on your actual work. But then you

498
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 3: can improve the final outcome by getting some feedback and

499
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 3: sort of interacting with this, you know, outside authotic. But

500
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 3: you could go the other way, which is you use

501
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 3: the tool to just do all the work for you,

502
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 3: and then it's like you're using it instead of your

503
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:38,000
Speaker 3: brain as if you didn't have one, and then you

504
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 3: have less activation of the networks. In the brain less

505
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 3: skill building, it feels less personal to you. You remember it

506
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 3: less well because you didn't actually do the work. So

507
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:49,399
Speaker 3: I'm you know, thinking about can it augment function or

508
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 3: is it going to allow skills and functions to actrophy?

509
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,919
Speaker 3: And you could go either way, and it just depends

510
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 3: on how you choose to interact with it.

511
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 1: I saw a tweet from I believe there was a

512
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: professor at Stanford and she was talking about how a

513
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: few years ago when she would have these open book

514
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,720
Speaker 1: written to answer questions based on readings, they couldn't reference

515
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: notes or anything.

516
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 2: Her students.

517
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 1: She said the average was about an eighty in the

518
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: class on these tests that were written answers no notes.

519
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: In the last couple of years since the rise of AI.

520
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: Nothing has changed about her class, nothing has changed about

521
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: how she's taught, but the average has dropped to sixty

522
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:31,679
Speaker 1: and she started to think about it. She goes, I

523
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:35,840
Speaker 1: think what is happening is that instead of students reading

524
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 1: what I've assigned them, what they've effectively done is uploaded

525
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: the reading into an AI and Ben hey summarize this

526
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: in like two paragraphs because I don't want to read

527
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,879
Speaker 1: this twenty page paper, so it kicks that out and

528
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: then in turn, when it comes down to like, okay,

529
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: I have to write out this thought out answer about this,

530
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 1: they just don't have the information there and they're like, oh,

531
00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:56,119
Speaker 1: I don't remember it.

532
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 2: Who knows?

533
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, because the the open book type exam, right, you

534
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:03,880
Speaker 3: kind of think, well, you have access to all this information.

535
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:06,199
Speaker 3: But in general and those types of exams, there is

536
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 3: so much information. There isn't enough time in the exam

537
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:09,959
Speaker 3: for you to go and actually like look it up

538
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 3: and then formulate a theory of it and then kind

539
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 3: of put it together. Right, you might be able to

540
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,239
Speaker 3: go and look up a single fact or something if

541
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 3: you've forgotten exactly what it is, but traditionally what you

542
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 3: would do in that kind of sesting is you'd get

543
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,959
Speaker 3: the material, you'd read it, and then you'd write your

544
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 3: own notes kind of summarizing it, right, and then then

545
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 3: it's actually it's it's in there plus your own thoughts

546
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 3: and opinions of it, which is probably often what might

547
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 3: the professor might want. So I think giving this the

548
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 3: act of summarization, even to AI, you miss those steps

549
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 3: of actually really thinking about the material and summarizing it

550
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: in a way that makes sense to you so that

551
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 3: and that you remember it so that you can then

552
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: apply it in whatever sesting it is that you need

553
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 3: to apply it, And in like medicine that's going to

554
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 3: be critical, in engineering that's going to be like this,

555
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 3: a whole range of fields where you have to put

556
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 3: in some reps kind of integrating and understanding the materials

557
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 3: so that you have it on hand, you know, when

558
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 3: it's needed, which often might be in an innniversity, you know,

559
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 3: time pressure situation.

560
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: I was this actually thinks about makes me think about

561
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: my own work. So in my past two books, when

562
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: I've gone out on reporting trips, like whether I was

563
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,200
Speaker 1: in the Arctic for the Comfort Crisis, whether I was

564
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: in all the places I went in scarcity brain. I

565
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: would write all my notes in a notebook, okay, for

566
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,840
Speaker 1: the for the book I'm working on now. I did

567
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 1: this long hike through southern Utah. So we're hiking all day.

568
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: I couldn't stop and write notes because I got a hike,

569
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: and so what I did instead is I would take

570
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 1: voice memos. I'd just say something as I was hiking. Now,

571
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: when I went back to those voice memos, yes, I

572
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:49,320
Speaker 1: had all the material there, but I wouldn't remember like

573
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: half of it. I was like, I forgot this happened.

574
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: I forgot this happened. Whereas with my past books, because

575
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: I had been forced to think about how am I

576
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: going to explain this in a quick note, I had

577
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: to write it out. I would remember all that stuff

578
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,719
Speaker 1: just from of those whe I'm like, oh, that's an

579
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: interesting observation.

580
00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 3: There are some interesting data on the different brain networks

581
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,959
Speaker 3: activated during the process of actual like physical, physical writing,

582
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 3: and I think that's that's part of it. There's there's

583
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 3: this inherent set of networks that are activated through that

584
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 3: process that may help people to learn, and it may

585
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,360
Speaker 3: be different, like it's maybe different from person to person,

586
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 3: right in terms of like what works best for you

587
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 3: because because we know in other settings, So there's like

588
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 3: a big, big set of research on like therapeustic writing

589
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 3: as part of you know, sort of psychological or therapy

590
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,360
Speaker 3: kind of thing, and you can get many of the

591
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 3: same benefits if you just say it out loud versus

592
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 3: writing it down. So it might might depend a little

593
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 3: bit on the person, but I think you're right that

594
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 3: there is some evidence that that actual physical act of

595
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 3: writing and this this is definitely why I did my

596
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 3: entire university career, Like I wouldn't internalize it unless I

597
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 3: actually like physically wrote it down, and I think we

598
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 3: kind of see some research that would support that that's

599
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 3: something special about writing it down.

600
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned earlier dancing, and you had some awesome

601
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 1: information about dancing in the book, which I just loved

602
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: because that's something that I think, for lack of a

603
00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: better term, fitness bros, like maybe you and I would

604
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: just be like dancing, Yeah, I'm out of there. But

605
00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: there's a lot of research that says it's actually great

606
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: for our brains. And there's also I don't know if

607
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: you referenced the study, but it's a study I came

608
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: across that looked at physical activity and depression heal, it

609
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 1: relates and like ranked all these different types of physical activity,

610
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,760
Speaker 1: and dancing came up as like the best type of

611
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 1: physical activity for mental health.

612
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I actually do reference that mess analysis in

613
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 3: the book for that reason. You're right that historically I

614
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:57,479
Speaker 3: would have sort of laughed off a dancing. You know,

615
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 3: I do my running, like, do my hard train and

616
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 3: do my rowing, I lift my weights like I'm doing

617
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 3: everything that I need from a physical activity standpoint. But

618
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 3: you see again and again in many different scenarios that

619
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 3: when you compare two physical activities that have the same

620
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 3: level of physical intensity, both are great for cognition and

621
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 3: brain health and cardiovascua fitness and all that stuff, but

622
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 3: you see an edge in the one that has a

623
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 3: coordinative component. So comparing like table tennis or badminton to cycling,

624
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:37,240
Speaker 3: or they've done studies comparing dancing to like circuit training

625
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 3: they've done comparing running around a track to running around

626
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 3: that same track where they've added obstacles that you kind

627
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 3: of have to like jump over and climb under, and

628
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 3: dancing consistently sort of seems to outcompete all of those.

629
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 3: So in that same mes analysis. In that MES analysis,

630
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 3: it wasn't that they compared directly compared dancing to all

631
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 3: those different interventions, but when they looked at all these different

632
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 3: interventions and then said what's the effect of these interventions

633
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,479
Speaker 3: on like symptoms of depression, the effect size was largest

634
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 3: for dancing. And we see the same thing for cognitive function,

635
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 3: especially sort of in older adults or those already experiencing

636
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 3: some level of cognitive decline. In studies where they've looked

637
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 3: at it. You see changes on a brain scan, so

638
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 3: you can see changes in the structure of hippocampus, which

639
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 3: you know is really critical for memory, and you see

640
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 3: changes in cognitive function if you sort of like formally

641
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 3: measure them. And I think it's this combination of complex

642
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 3: motor skills, music, there's a social component, physical activity components,

643
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 3: there's a fun component, and I think all of those

644
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 3: things kind of come together. So there's absolutely there's some

645
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 3: cardiovascular benefit. It's moderate physical activity probably most of the time,

646
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 3: but that like complex coordination piece plus all the other

647
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 3: pieces laid on top seem to have this outsized effect.

648
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

649
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: I think one thing that's interesting too is when you

650
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: look and I think Daniel Lieberman at Harvard has written

651
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: a bit about this. When you look at human history

652
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: and physical activity, no one ever exercised which is just

653
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 1: moving for the sake of it. The only time people

654
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,360
Speaker 1: would just move for the sake of it without like

655
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 1: a clear output of Okay, I need to go get food,

656
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:24,280
Speaker 1: I need to get water, we need to go find

657
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: out a wood for a fire. The only time people

658
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: would move for the sake of it was with dancing,

659
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: and it almost became this like religious, spiritual, social community

660
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: act and all. It seems like all communities have done

661
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 1: it throughout time.

662
00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:46,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that when you boil down, like some

663
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 3: of the different activities that we know seem to have

664
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 3: the biggest effect in terms of building maintaining cognitive function,

665
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 3: they really come down to these like core human activities

666
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 3: that I think like almost baked into our biology in

667
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,000
Speaker 3: a certain way. So like, yes, general movement all day

668
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 3: is really important. But then languages and music and dancing

669
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,600
Speaker 3: and like navigation. I know you've written about a lot, right,

670
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 3: that's like traditionally been something that we needed to do,

671
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,120
Speaker 3: and it seems to be really important for our brains.

672
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 3: And so if we're trying to think of where to

673
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:20,439
Speaker 3: start those seem to be really like foundational skills that

674
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 3: the human brain almost expects as an input. I think

675
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 3: that then you know has has these benefits as a result.

676
00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: How does how does nutrition factor into brain health? And

677
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 1: do supplements play a useful role or is it all

678
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: just kind of bunk when it comes to supplements.

679
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 3: So most of it is probably bunk, but there are

680
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 3: there are some supplements that have some evidence for them

681
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 3: in specific settings. So the way that I think about

682
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 3: nutrition is this confluence of of sort of three different levers.

683
00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:07,680
Speaker 3: The first just being total energy availability like in the body.

684
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 3: And we see that when you're looking at like brain volume,

685
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: which is an important aspect of long term cognition, right,

686
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:17,360
Speaker 3: you want to have buffer in the systems, like as

687
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 3: much volumes as possible, essentially in sort of relatives to

688
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 3: the size of your skull. You see, it's kind of

689
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 3: there's kind of like a bell shaped curve of energy

690
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 3: availability versus brain volume. So at the high end, which

691
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 3: is now more typical in a sort of like standard

692
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,800
Speaker 3: modernized westernized society where you have metabolic disease pre diabetes

693
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 3: or type of diabetes obesity, you see fast rates of

694
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 3: congresive decline higher rates of dementia, but you also see

695
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 3: it at the low end. And I think this is

696
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 3: definitely relevant to athletes and people chasing longevity who are

697
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 3: chronically colorically restricting themselves and in that setting and this

698
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,879
Speaker 3: have seen this a lot of athletes that I work with.

699
00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 3: When you have low energy availability, you have poor sleep,

700
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 3: poor cognition, mood changes and that's just because you're not

701
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 3: necessarily you don't have enough energy to run the system.

702
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 3: So that's an important part. And the next part is nutrients.

703
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 3: So there are specific nutrients that we know are tied

704
00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 3: to long term risk of comeative decline. Probably the ones

705
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,359
Speaker 3: with the best evidence are iron, vitamin d OMEGA three,

706
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 3: fassy acids, and the B vitamins, particularly B vitamins associated

707
00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 3: with methylation and who you know, if you're insufficient in them,

708
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 3: you see an increase in the marker homocysteine, so that's

709
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 3: B twelve, FOL eight, B six and riberflaving. And that's

710
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 3: where we also have some pretty good evidence for interventions.

711
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:46,880
Speaker 3: So several studies historically did things like give people B

712
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 3: vitamins to see whether it decreased their risk of dimension

713
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 3: long term, or give omega few fasciacids to see whether

714
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,399
Speaker 3: it decreases the risk of dimension long term, and with

715
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,439
Speaker 3: fairly unimpressive results, and so as a result people people

716
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 3: are like, oh, they don't work. Usually in those settings

717
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 3: they weren't looking at like whether the people needed in

718
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,760
Speaker 3: the first place, and then they weren't looking at other

719
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,280
Speaker 3: nutrient markers at the same time. And so you see

720
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 3: that particularly be Visamin's and Omega three fats interact in

721
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 3: terms of their effects on the brain. So the first

722
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 3: study to find this was the Vitacog study. It was

723
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,560
Speaker 3: done at the University of Oxford, and they took people

724
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 3: with a high level of homo systeine, so that's you

725
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,239
Speaker 3: ideally want your homestystein at least below thirteen from a

726
00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 3: cognitive standpoint, probably below sort of ten to eleven. And

727
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 3: they saw people with elevated to homo systeine. They gave

728
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 3: them a bevisamin a very basic beavismin and they saw

729
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 3: slowed rates of brain ash fee and slowed rates of

730
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 3: cognitive decline. But they found that this effect, the benefit

731
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 3: was only in those who had an adequate Omega three status. Interesting,

732
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 3: and there are now three at least three randomized controlled

733
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 3: trials that have found the same thing. So the b

734
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 3: proof trial found the same thing that if you give

735
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 3: b visamins but some they don't have adequate omega threes,

736
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,359
Speaker 3: you don't see benefit. And the omega ad trial found

737
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 3: the opposite, which is that if you give a mega

738
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: threes but they have high homo systeine, they don't benefit,

739
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 3: but if you have both, you do benefit. So this

740
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,879
Speaker 3: kind of makes sense when you think about how these

741
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,880
Speaker 3: nutrients interact in the brain. Are actually for them to

742
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 3: sort of benefit brain membrane structure and function, which is

743
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,879
Speaker 3: kind of part of what they do. You need where

744
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 3: they interact, they sort of that you require they require

745
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 3: one another. So where I would kind of stand from

746
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 3: a supplement standpoint is you can test for some of

747
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 3: these things, and like it's very easy to test a

748
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 3: Mega three status, your your primary care provider should get

749
00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 3: be able to get a home assystine level. Definitely check

750
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,239
Speaker 3: your iron. Low iron is often a cause of cognative

751
00:39:55,560 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 3: changes in perimenopause for women vitamin D state. As we know,

752
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 3: if you're vitamin D deficient, you have a high risk

753
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 3: of dementia. And so these are basic things that you

754
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 3: can get tested and if you need to, and we

755
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 3: have evidence right from those trials that you can supplement

756
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,000
Speaker 3: and you will then see benefit as a result. So

757
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 3: that's kind of where i'd focus, is supplements to overcome

758
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:22,360
Speaker 3: insufficiencies in the diet. And you see something similar with

759
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 3: like the Cosmos study, this massive randomized controlled trial that

760
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,400
Speaker 3: gave people a multi vitamin and so they saw some

761
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 3: benefits from that in those who had a low quality

762
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 3: diet benefit. There was benefits from an antioxidant supplement of

763
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 3: cocoa flavonol supplement, just because we know that these polyphen

764
00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 3: antioxidants can be important for the brain. So that's really

765
00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 3: supplements to overcome known deficits in the diet is where

766
00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 3: I would where I would focus.

767
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 1: That makes sense to go back to what you said

768
00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 1: about sort of this balance between overeating and underreating when

769
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 1: you're working especially with athletes, because I think a lot

770
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 1: of people who listen to this, you know, lift, run,

771
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: do all the things.

772
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 2: How do you help people find the balance.

773
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 3: The My my sort of approach is to eat as

774
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 3: much as you can without gaining significant weight. Yeah, so

775
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 3: that's basically it.

776
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 2: That's very that's like, that's just great. It's just like

777
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 2: just kind of track your weight. If you're getting a weight,

778
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 2: eat a little less. If you're not, keep on eating.

779
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly it and hopefully right, So I said,

780
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 3: I mentioned there were three levers of diet, right, So

781
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 3: there's energy and nutrients, and then the third is pattern

782
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 3: is what pattern of your diet allows you to sustainably

783
00:41:38,760 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 3: hit those other two And that can be any number

784
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 3: of different dietary patterns, whether they have names or not.

785
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 3: But you hit those two things and you do it sustainably,

786
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,240
Speaker 3: that that's what matters. So yeah, in general, I encourage

787
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 3: athletes to eat more. That tends to be associated with

788
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 3: improvements in performance, as long as they're you know, still

789
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 3: maintaining weight goals or body competition goals, which is off

790
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 3: important depending on this sport.

791
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: So you sign up for this ultra marathon or no,

792
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 1: it was a it was a iron man, yeah, but

793
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: it's like a off road.

794
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,439
Speaker 3: It's it was the world's first fully off road iron man.

795
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what did you learn from that?

796
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: Because you, I mean, for people, if you're not watching

797
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 1: this on video, you're not necessarily built like an endurance athlete.

798
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: You're a big dude, and you got you got a

799
00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 1: strong Man competition coming up in ten days. So what

800
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 1: did you learn from that, specifically about like why it's

801
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: useful to try things that are totally out of your

802
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: comfort zone.

803
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 3: When I got my first paycheck as a doctor, the

804
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 3: thing that I spent it on was registration for this,

805
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 3: for this race. So this is now twenty twelve and

806
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 3: this is still to date. The only triathlon I ever

807
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 3: did was this twenty four hour fully off road iron

808
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,160
Speaker 3: Man one and done one, and dude, that that was

809
00:42:55,200 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 3: it and what I I mean? There were definitely several

810
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 3: several learnings that I took from this, but one was

811
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 3: getting to the point where I knew that I just

812
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 3: wouldn't quit, right. So so it was this idea of

813
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 3: exposing myself to all the different pieces so that I

814
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 3: knew when I got when I was uncomfortable and I

815
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 3: was lost and I didn't know what I was doing,

816
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,560
Speaker 3: I would still have some idea of what I needed

817
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 3: to do to do next. And that was because I

818
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 3: couldn't do the perfect training program. I was working as

819
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,160
Speaker 3: a judodoctor, doing night shift all that kind of stuff.

820
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 3: So I like, I just went out and I saw,

821
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:35,440
Speaker 3: I saw the course, and I knew I wasn't going

822
00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 3: to be the fastest guy. I wasn't the best navigator.

823
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 3: I wasn't gonna be the fittest guy. I was less

824
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 3: heavy than I am now. But the goal was just

825
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 3: to not quit, right, So I just gave myself all

826
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 3: these bits of information and tried all these different things

827
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 3: that I knew that when I did fall off my bike,

828
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 3: which I did all the time, because like the bike

829
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:56,439
Speaker 3: was during a torrential rainstorm, like the wet the third

830
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 3: wettest summer since in the UK since since records began.

831
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 3: So it was just this process of going out and

832
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 3: doing doing things so that I knew that when I

833
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 3: sucked or I couldn't do it, or I failed or

834
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 3: fell over, I got lost, that I could sort of

835
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 3: overcome it. And then for that reason, more than fifty

836
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,800
Speaker 3: percent of the field quit in this race. It was long,

837
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:23,400
Speaker 3: it was wet, but I knew through the process of

838
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 3: like just going out there and trying this stuff and

839
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 3: figuring out and getting it wrong, that I knew I

840
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:29,680
Speaker 3: could do it. But that was the main thing going

841
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:31,839
Speaker 3: in is that I wouldn't finish first, but I knew

842
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 3: that I could complete it. And kind of broadening that

843
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 3: out to this idea of trying things that are difficult

844
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 3: and that you suck at, because you're right, I'm not.

845
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 3: I'm not an ensurance athlete, not built like a runner,

846
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 3: certainly because I was a rower in college. So like

847
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 3: a sitting down sport I'd be okay at because I

848
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 3: don't need to like lug my body weight around. But

849
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 3: like building building now sort of broadly into this idea

850
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,800
Speaker 3: of sucking that I believe is one of the primary

851
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 3: drivers of neuroplasticity in the brain.

852
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: Neuroplasticity is could you quickly define it just for people?

853
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, So. Neuroplasticity is just this process of

854
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 3: building new connections in the brain. So we don't most

855
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 3: of the adult brain doesn't make new neurons, but the

856
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 3: whole brain can continuously make new connections. And when you

857
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 3: make new connections, then there are a whole bunch of

858
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 3: other cells involved. You can improve structure that's associated with

859
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 3: improvements in function. You can see this on MRI scan,

860
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 3: Like there are studies where you teach people how to juggle,

861
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,720
Speaker 3: and the better they get a juggling, you can actually

862
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 3: watch their visual cortex change structure on MRI scan in

863
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 3: like real time super cool. And the way that this

864
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 3: happens is the brain is constantly monitoring for mistakes or

865
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:04,759
Speaker 3: error or what it's actually monstering for is a mismatch

866
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 3: between prediction and reality. So your brain is is a

867
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 3: prediction machine. What I am experiencing right now is not

868
00:46:13,239 --> 00:46:15,720
Speaker 3: happening in real time. It's happening on a slight delay,

869
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 3: at least sort of eighteen milliseconds or so. That's amount

870
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 3: of time it takes for all the information to go

871
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 3: into my eyes and ears and like be processed by

872
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 3: the brain so that I can see it in my

873
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 3: mind's eye. And so most of what I experience is

874
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 3: a prediction based on this lagged data plus what my

875
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 3: brain thinks will happen next. And so when I go

876
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 3: to a dance class, for example, right, and I actually

877
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,680
Speaker 3: have Like I once was signed up for a dance

878
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 3: class and I didn't go because I was so worried

879
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 3: about sucking that I didn't do it. And now I

880
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:47,480
Speaker 3: still regret it to this day because I know how

881
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 3: good it would have been for me.

882
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 2: There's still time, there's still.

883
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 3: If you've ever watched True Lies with Arnold Swartzeneger and

884
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 3: Jamie Lee Kurtis Like in the opening scene they tango, right,

885
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 3: You're like he like dips it down, like you grab

886
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:02,880
Speaker 3: them rows of your mouth, all that kind of stuff.

887
00:47:02,880 --> 00:47:04,839
Speaker 3: So like when I go and tango for the first time,

888
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,960
Speaker 3: That's what I'm imagining, But like what's actually going to

889
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 3: happen is I'm going to trip over my wife's feet

890
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 3: and I'm going to drop her, And that difference between

891
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 3: expectation and reality. The brain is constantly monitoring for that,

892
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 3: and then when that happens, that starts to divert resources,

893
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 3: That starts the process of neuroplasticity to like close that gap.

894
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,479
Speaker 3: What do I need to do to kind of build

895
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:30,279
Speaker 3: the skills, get me closer to what I want to

896
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:35,040
Speaker 3: happen to actually happen, And so making mistakes and errors,

897
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 3: pushing the boundaries of your current capabilities are what then

898
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 3: builds capacity. And it's just like going to failure in

899
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 3: the gym, or like pushing yourself really hard in a

900
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 3: sprint training workout or something like that, You're putting a

901
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 3: stressor on the system and you need to give it

902
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 3: time to rest and recover and adapt and the nutrient

903
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 3: resources to do that and all that kind of stuff.

904
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:56,319
Speaker 3: But you need to kind of stress the system so

905
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 3: that it builds capacity and response. And that's why I

906
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 3: think one of the most important things that we can

907
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,799
Speaker 3: do is go out and really challenge ourselves. One it's

908
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 3: important psychologically, like it was in my you know, im

909
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 3: Man race, like I know I can overcome these challenges

910
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 3: when I face them. But the other one is that

911
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 3: it actually builds functional capacity in the brain.

912
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,960
Speaker 2: That feels like the perfect metaphor for your book.

913
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: Go out, try stuff, be willing to suck, do new things,

914
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,959
Speaker 1: just keep on moving and living and don't quit.

915
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 3: Absolutely awesome.

916
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,399
Speaker 1: Well man, thanks so much for coming on The book

917
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:31,479
Speaker 1: is the Stimulated Mind.

918
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 2: It was fantastic. It is.

919
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 1: I think you did a really excellent job weaving in

920
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 1: all the research with like just practical takeaways, but also

921
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: practically your practical experiences in the field. And I think

922
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: that is like the mark of a really excellent book

923
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 1: because it leaves you with information you can actually use.

924
00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 3: Thanks so much. I really appreciate it, and I've been

925
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 3: a big fan of your writing for a long time,

926
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 3: so like knowing that you're really good at that, those

927
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 3: those comments being a lot to me.

928
00:48:56,200 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: Awesome, Thanks again, man, Thank you all right, that's all

929
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:02,720
Speaker 1: we have for today. Thank you so much for checking

930
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: out the show. As a reminder, we are in your

931
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,359
Speaker 1: feeds twice a week, so do not forget to hit subscribe.

932
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: If you have any questions for our Ask Michael Anything section,

933
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: drop them in the comments or send us an email

934
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 1: and we will do our best to answer every single

935
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: question we can. Bonus If you want to score those

936
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: bonus points, send us your question as a voice file

937
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:23,440
Speaker 1: or in a video.

938
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 2: We would love that.

939
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: Go ahead and do it, and as always, to close

940
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:38,400
Speaker 1: things out, have fun, don't die.