1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: It's the last week of National Make a Will mouth. 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: At legal Zoom, they're still time to take control of 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: your family's assets and their future. Sure, there's a lot 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: to think about, but that's why legal Zoom created an 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,319 Speaker 1: estate planning kit to help you get going. You get 6 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: an estate plan checklist and e book and other information 7 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: to help you decide what to do. And you can 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: always get advice from legal zooms nationwide network of independent 9 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: lawyers without being builled by the hour. 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For special savings, be sure to enter 14 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: code Nancy in a n C Y at checkout legal 15 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 1: zoom dot com, legal zoom dot com Climb stories with 16 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace on Serious x M Triumph Channel one thirty two. 17 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,040 Speaker 1: Montgomery County police have searched Laura Wallon's condo looking for clues. 18 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: Wallen didn't show up to teach your Social Studies class 19 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: on Tuesday, the first day of school at wald Leg 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: High I spoke with her on Saturday UM just through 21 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: text message, and then briefly on Sunday, and then I 22 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,680 Speaker 1: had one odd text message in the morning on Monday. 23 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: The missing teacher's father and sister say she was four 24 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: months pregnant. Totally torn our world apartment. It's like a 25 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 1: TV drama that you wished she could shut off, but 26 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: you can't. Detectives found the body of Laura Wallon in 27 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: a shallow green. Her body has now been recovered. Tyler Tessier, 28 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: Mrs Wallon's boyfriend, was arrested for her murder in the 29 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: last hours. The answer we did not want. After all 30 00:01:55,680 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: of us have been reading, researching, praying, commenting, investigating, we 31 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 1: learn the body of a beautiful young teacher, Laura Whalen 32 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: does thirty one years old of old New Maryland, body 33 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 1: has been found. Take a listen to what Montgomery County 34 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: Police say today. Around noon, detectives and members of the 35 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: Montgomery County Police Search and Rescue Team, we're searching a 36 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: wooded area near Prices Distillery Road in Damascus. They located 37 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 1: a patch of freshly dug ground in a secluded area 38 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: of a field. Cadaver dogs indicated on the area and 39 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: ultimately detectives found the body of Laura Wallen. In a 40 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: shallow grave. Her body has now been recovered. At five 41 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: thirty pm this afternoon, Tyler Tessier, Mrs Walland's boyfriend, was 42 00:02:56,080 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 1: arrested for her murder. Since Ms Wallon was reported missing 43 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: by her family nine days ago, we've determined that Mr 44 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 1: Tessier was the last person known to have been with 45 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: the victim. They were seen together on surveillance camera video 46 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: on Saturday, September two in a grocery store near the 47 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: victim's home. It is suspected by investigators that she was 48 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 1: killed the next day. The victim's sister received texts from 49 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: Miss Walland's phone on Monday morning, September four. We have 50 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: determined that these texts were sent by Tyler Tessier, the 51 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: suspect in this case. Since this investigation began, Mr Tessier 52 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 1: has provided information to detectives that led them to suspect 53 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 1: his involvement in this case. In addition, Mr Tessier was 54 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: determined to have driven the victim's car to the Columbia area. 55 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 1: He admitted to removing the front tag and disposing of it. 56 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: Tessier also texted and a quaintance asking for a ride 57 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: to Baltimore late Sunday night. He said that he needed 58 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: help to quote to clean up a mess. The acquaintance 59 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: declined to assist him. Mr Tessier also admitted to disposing 60 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: of the victims driver's license and her iPhone. The break 61 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: in this case came when it was determined that Tessier 62 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 1: had made several trips to an acquaintance property on Prices 63 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 1: Distillery Road in Damascus. Investigators showed up there today with 64 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 1: a search warrant for the property, which was a dwelling 65 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: along with open fields and woods. During the search, the 66 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: team observed tire tracks on a nearby property. They observed 67 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: a freshly dug ground on the property, which was some 68 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: distance from the property that they were originally searching. We 69 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: spoke with the owner of the property where the ground 70 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: had been derved, and we were ultimately able to recover 71 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: the victim's body. The property owner of that property has 72 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: no involvement with the case. Lawrants for Mr Tessier's arrest 73 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: were obtained this afternoon and he was taken into custody 74 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 1: at around five thirty pm this evening. He's being charged 75 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 1: with the murder of Laura Wallen. I want to thank 76 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 1: the detectives and all of the members of the public, 77 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: both here and in Howard County who assisted us with 78 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: information related to this case. I also want to thank 79 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: my homicide detectives who worked around the clock on this 80 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: case and we're able to bring it to closure and 81 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:50,080 Speaker 1: in closing, while this arrest does provide some answers, I'm 82 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: aware of the impact that this had on Miss Willin's 83 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: community and all it. We know that many of you 84 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: are grieving with Laura's family tonight, So I'll answer any 85 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: questions that you might have. Anything in the news conference 86 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: on Monday in which raised some eyebrows and as you 87 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,279 Speaker 1: think something was wrong here that would lead you to 88 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: believe that Tyler tessa Er was a suspect in this 89 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: case because he did speak to the media, that's correct 90 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:22,359 Speaker 1: and UH. The decision to allow him to participate in 91 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:28,280 Speaker 1: that news conference was a calculated UH decision made by 92 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: the detectives in this case for the express purpose of 93 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: hearing what he had to say. It was done with 94 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: the approval and knowledge of the victim's fat was in 95 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: that text message. There was a text message that was 96 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: said the day that Laura Wallan went missing, you all 97 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't tell us what was in it, but the family 98 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: said it was troubling. She sent a text message to 99 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: UM I can't remember if it was her sister or 100 00:06:55,080 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: her friend, saying that h. Tyler had taken her to 101 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:04,279 Speaker 1: an open field up in the Damascus area. And she says, 102 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 1: I'm not sure why we're up here, but he's taken 103 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: me to this place in the middle of nowhere, something 104 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 1: to that effect. That the friends said take a picture. 105 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:21,000 Speaker 1: And she did give any indication why he allegedly did this. I, 106 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: UM can only speculate us to the motive. We don't. 107 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: We have not gotten any information from him about the 108 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: motive that case. Fox five was able to confirmed that 109 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: he living with a woman in Damascus. Has that woman 110 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: been questioned in this inastigation? She he's actually got three 111 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: different places where he was uh living. UM, he'd lived 112 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: three different locations UH typically during during the week. UM. 113 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: Everyone who he lived with has been interviewed in this case. 114 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: What led you to to that particular area in which 115 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: the cadaver dogs then said, you know what, We're gonna 116 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: look into this, what what why they're We had been 117 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: able to determine over the past week that he had 118 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: made several visits um to that area and UM we 119 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,840 Speaker 1: also determined that he would occasionally or during some period 120 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 1: of time and stay there, and so we got a 121 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: search mark for UH that property which including a dwelling 122 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: and and quite a bit of wooded area and fields, 123 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: and the search search team, our search team actually did 124 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: search the perimeter of those entire woods and at some 125 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: point noticed tire tracks that went into an area of 126 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: the woods and followed and that's what led them to 127 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 1: the area where we recovered her body. On Mister Tennessere 128 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: is a suspect to find the press conference on Monday 129 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 1: or was still a person of injuries? Um, he was. 130 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: He was definitely a person of interest. UM. We had 131 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: already um identified a couple of inconsistencies and information that 132 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,319 Speaker 1: he had given us. And again it was a calculated 133 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: decision by the detectives to allow him to speak at 134 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: that press conference when we were going to be very 135 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: interested in what he had to say at that press conference. 136 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: And again it was done with the knowledge and concurrency 137 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: with the family. They do as well, so the family 138 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,599 Speaker 1: knew he was a person of interest. Yes, prior to 139 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: anti can you just clarify the timeline of for instance, 140 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: that text message that you said that was sent to 141 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: the friend. What he said September two was the surreillance 142 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,200 Speaker 1: video at the grocery store. What was that? That was 143 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: also on September two, UM, which was a Saturday, and 144 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: then we had nothing, uh, no activity from her phone 145 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: on Sunday. Uh. And then on Monday morning, UH. I 146 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: believe it was her sister UM received texts from miss 147 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: Wallin's phone that we're determined later to have cut that 148 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: that Tyler was the one up sending those texts. We 149 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:08,439 Speaker 1: have been able to confirm that More's disappearance happened around 150 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: the same time she found out that Tyler was living 151 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:16,079 Speaker 1: with this with another woman confirmed that she had known 152 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,599 Speaker 1: that for some time. Was there any evidence on the 153 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,760 Speaker 1: body that would give you some kind of a gauge 154 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,560 Speaker 1: like evidence of god enforced trauma and that there there 155 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: was not, UM, So we're gonna have to wait for 156 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 1: the the autopsy to get that information. We talked all 157 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: about in this case. I can't talk about motive because 158 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: I don't know what the motive was. I know that 159 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 1: people have speculated um uh, the fact that you know 160 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 1: he was in UM another relationship. People talked about the 161 00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: fact that the victim was pregnant. Um, that's that's all speculation, 162 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: but I don't know what the motive was in this cast. 163 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: Thank you all very much. Thank you. Joining me is 164 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: director of the Cold Cases does she Cheryl call Um, 165 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: psychoanalyst out of l A. Dr. Bethany Marshall, and Crime 166 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 1: Online investigative reporter Lee Egan. Cheryl McCullum, did you hear 167 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: what police said about why they had the boyfriend speak? Nancy, 168 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: This was an awesome piece of police work. You and 169 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: I have talked about it at nauseum that the devil 170 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: is at the dinner table. This is somebody they knew 171 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 1: and trusted. And Nathan, when they allowed him to speak, 172 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: he literally said a gaping hole. I'm just sick about it. 173 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,679 Speaker 1: I am sick about it. Dr Bethany Marshall. I mean, 174 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: when we analyzed it before, I was heartened by the 175 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: fact the family kept saying they think she's alive and 176 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: hiding out. I mean, in my mind, I mean I 177 00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: argued with Cheryl when she said that, but I wanted 178 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: to believe it. Bethany, Well, I did too. But the 179 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: family knew during the public plea that the boyfriend was 180 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: a suspect and did see the body language, Nancy. I 181 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: mean the Laura Wallen's parents are huddled together and the 182 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: boyfriend is sitting like a foot away from them. He's 183 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: holding the mother's hand. The father reaches behind the mother 184 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 1: and comforts the boyfriend, and during that time, the father 185 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: knows that the boyfriend is a suspect in his daughter's disappearance. 186 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: The I I just think the family was so courageous 187 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: to go along with the police suggestion. And you and 188 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: I talk so I have talked so much about this 189 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: over the years. But when a woman is pregnant, she's 190 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: at the greatest risk for homicide. And during that public 191 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: pre plea pressor, it wasn't just the parents of Laura 192 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: Wallen there, it was the potential grandparents of this little baby. 193 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: I just can't imagine the agony they were experiencing speaking 194 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: of the boyfriend who was now murder but number one, 195 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: listen to what police tricked him into saying at the presser. Now, 196 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: I'd like to ask Laura wall and his boyfriend Mr 197 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: Tyler Testier to step to the podium to say after 198 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: you're worth and more, floor's behalf, thank you all for 199 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: coming here. Um, Laura, if you're listening, it doesn't matter 200 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 1: what's happened. It doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what type 201 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: of trouble. There's nothing we can't fix together myself and 202 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 1: your family. There's so many people, so many people that 203 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,360 Speaker 1: miss you. There's so many people that were out. We 204 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: haven't slept, we haven't eaten. We're just looking and we're 205 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 1: praying that you're safe. And I'm asking to just let 206 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:10,960 Speaker 1: us know that you're safe. If somebody has her, please 207 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: understand that you've taken away a huge, huge person in 208 00:14:15,559 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: so many people's lives, friends and family and students that 209 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: she has. I know what she means to me, I 210 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: know what she means to everybody else, and we just 211 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: want to know if she's okay. We just want her back. 212 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: Thank you, Lee Egan joining me. Investigative reporter from Crime Online, Lee, 213 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: what did you make? Actually, let's hear it when they 214 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: actually ask. A reporter asked the boyfriend a question what 215 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: she's been like over the last couple of weeks, your 216 00:14:54,360 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: interactions with her qu um like Mr Wallin said, she 217 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: was super excited for the start of the school year. 218 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: I know she had talked to some her principle and 219 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: her teachers, like her co workers about um, her being 220 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: pregnant and how excited she was, and uh, it's just 221 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 1: a complete shock that I mean, I think leading up 222 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: to leading up to the weekend that she's missing. I mean, 223 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: I don't I don't believe anybody has any inclination to 224 00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 1: think that something was wrong or m r. Last conversations. 225 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, your last conversations with her. I don't know 226 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 1: where she is, that's all. I don't know, Like I don't, 227 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 1: I know, we're all trying to do everything we can 228 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: to find her. And I just pray that I pray 229 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: that she's safe, she comes back. That's all I care 230 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: about right now. How long have you walked me together? 231 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: And wrong? How would you really givebout meeting? I'm sorry, lo, 232 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: have you walk been together? And how long have you 233 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: all been play any or how did you go about 234 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: the meeting coming? Lauren? I have known each other probably 235 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: for ten years now. Um, yeah, we've you know, any 236 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: normal relationship. Just take one step at a time and 237 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:16,560 Speaker 1: you take the progress that comes with you and been 238 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:24,639 Speaker 1: the doctor's meetings, We've been sonograms and all the prenatal 239 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 1: care that you know you could ask and I'm sorry, Lee, 240 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 1: what did you think of that? I thought that it 241 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,240 Speaker 1: was strange the way he acted. He was more upset 242 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:46,679 Speaker 1: and dramatic than the parents were. It's like he already 243 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 1: knew that the answer would come soon, that she wouldn't 244 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: be found alive. That's my personal take on it. I 245 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: just think that the way he answered the reporter's question 246 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,879 Speaker 1: saying that he didn't know when the last time he 247 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: spoke to her was all he knew was that he 248 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: won her back safe. That was that was a rich 249 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 1: flight for me. This is what we know. Her body 250 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: has been found out in a field, and now the 251 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 1: search is over. We want justice. We'll be back on 252 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: the case and now all crime stories is Charlie Manson 253 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,959 Speaker 1: crazy but whatever that means. Sure he's crazy as a man, 254 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: as a hatter, What difference does it make. I took 255 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: the night and I started standing and I turned into 256 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: the animal, and was you know, I just did you 257 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,960 Speaker 1: tell the women to do their witchy things? I said, 258 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: if you're going to do something, leave something witchy, just 259 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: like I would tell you if you're going to do something, 260 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: do it well and leave something witchy. Leave a shign 261 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: to let the world know that you were there. Have 262 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 1: a good game. It was a crime scene like no other. 263 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, it went down in history, 264 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: a crime scene that was so barbaric, so bloody, so shocking, 265 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: so heinous that it has spawned books, articles, movies, the works. 266 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:17,679 Speaker 1: The Charles Manson killings, including the murder of a beautiful 267 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:23,679 Speaker 1: young mom, Sharon Tate. For all of these years, family 268 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: members have begged, begged the California Pardner Parole Board not 269 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: to release any of the Charles Manson family as they 270 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: call themselves. But in the last days, the Pardnering Parole 271 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 1: Board of California has done just that. Charles Manson follower 272 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: Leslie van Houten granted parole. It's not over yet because 273 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 1: even if Pardner in Parole in California grants parole, it 274 00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: must go through the governor. Right now, that governor is 275 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: Jerry Brown. Is it political suicide, imancy, grace. This is 276 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: crime stories, And I, for one, have not forgotten the 277 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: victims of Charles Manson and his so called family. It 278 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 1: wasn't just Sharon Tate. There were many victims. Most people 279 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: don't even remember their names. But joining me right now 280 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: is someone who knows their names very very well. The 281 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: author of Restless Souls, The Sharon Tate Family's account of Stardom, 282 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: the Manson Murders, and a Crusade for Justice. Repeat Restless Souls, 283 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: The Sharon Tate Family's account of Stardom, the Manson Murders, 284 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: and a Crusade for Justice that really says it all 285 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: with me as Alicia's stateman. Also with me forensic expert 286 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: Karen Smith. I got to know Karen when we were 287 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: performing a series of scientific experiments to prove or disprove 288 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: in our own minds the thelidity of a conviction of 289 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:06,040 Speaker 1: a young man who was convicted of murdering his own mother. 290 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,439 Speaker 1: We conducted those experiments for days and days, and I 291 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 1: was so impressed by Karen Smith. Ladies, thank you for 292 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: being with us. I just want to say at the 293 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: get go um a little awe struck of both of you, 294 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: because you're you're so incredible in your field. And I've 295 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: been thinking about Sharon Tate, I've been thinking about the 296 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: law Bianca's I've been thinking about all of the Manson 297 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: family victims and what this means to them and their families, 298 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 1: and what it means to justice in general to know 299 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: that a Manson family member has walked free. I want 300 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,360 Speaker 1: to go first to Alisa again, thank you for being 301 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: with us. Your book is incredible. I guess the only 302 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: place to start. When I would be confused in trying 303 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: a case and I didn't even know where to start, 304 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,720 Speaker 1: I did one thing. It could be organizing the file. 305 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,919 Speaker 1: It could be going down a list of witness that 306 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: existed and trying to enhance it, find numbers, fine locations. 307 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,880 Speaker 1: It could be walking to my car in the parking 308 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 1: debt and getting in and going out on the street 309 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: to take picture. Just one step, one step, and you 310 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: know what's funny. At least the other day, my little girl, Lucy, 311 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: my son John David, said, Mom, Mom, Mom, we've got 312 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 1: to write a proverb. A proverb for extra credit. And 313 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,240 Speaker 1: I merely thought of this one. A journey of a 314 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:37,200 Speaker 1: thousand miles begins with one step, which has been so true. 315 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 1: And for the other I gave all the glitters is 316 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: not gold. Those are two to live by. So let's 317 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,239 Speaker 1: start with one step at least. So let's start at 318 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: the beginning. Let's go through as we wait for the 319 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:52,159 Speaker 1: governor's response. Let's start at the beginning. What happened on 320 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 1: the night of August eight, Charles Watson, Patricia crime Winkle, 321 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: Susan Atkins, and somebody who's not known very well, uh 322 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: Linda went into Sharon's house and murdered five people and 323 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: that would be Stephen parents in the car, Sharon Tate, 324 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,919 Speaker 1: J C Bring, Abigail Folder and Boytekrakowski went into the 325 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: sanctity of their own home bound these people up and 326 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: murdered them in the most horrific way possible. Sharon Tate, 327 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: eight and a half months pregnant, stabbed her sixteen times 328 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,359 Speaker 1: over a hundred and nine dad wounds, bullet wounds, beaten 329 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 1: over the head, blood left on the walls, the bloodiest 330 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,960 Speaker 1: crime scene that's ever been seen. And then the second 331 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,400 Speaker 1: night they go out again. Wait wait, wait the second night. 332 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 1: How did they manage to walk free for there to 333 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: even be a second night? A Lisa, They walked out 334 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: into the night, went to a neighbor's house, washed the 335 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: blood off the car, and went back to Spawns Movie ranch, 336 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 1: never to be detected. It's just I'm trying to soap 337 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: that in. I'm trying to sink it in. When you 338 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 1: say the bloodiest crime scene weren't their words written on 339 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: the walls in blood? There was the word pig written 340 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: on the front door sharing Tape's house. The next night, 341 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: at the La Bianca house, there was many words written 342 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: on the walls, on the refrigerator. In Lena la Bianca's skin, 343 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: white white, white, white, white white white white. What in 344 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: her skin? In Leno la Bianca's skin, Patricia Kranwinkle carved 345 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 1: the word war into his skin and then left a 346 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: carving fork embedded in his stomach and a knife traversing 347 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: his throat. She left a four stuck in his stomach 348 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 1: and a knife stuck in his throat. You know what, 349 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: Karen Smith, to hear Alisa's statman describe it. You know, 350 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: I've been on so many murder scenes, saying, so many 351 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:03,640 Speaker 1: dead bodies, so many autopsies, so many crime scene photos. 352 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: But I've never seen anything like that. I've never seen. Yes, 353 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: I've seen a mass murder, but I've never seen it 354 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: at that scale. Karen, Karen Smith for expert, joining me, 355 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,959 Speaker 1: renowned forensic expert. What does it say to you about 356 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: who the killers are? Nancy? These people are remorseless, they 357 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: are vicious, they are cruel and a crime scene like 358 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: that goes beyond the scope of any that I've worked. 359 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,440 Speaker 1: I've worked over twenty and uh, I would have been 360 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,439 Speaker 1: completely agast and taken aback had I seen something like 361 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 1: that To write Pig, I mean, you stab an eight 362 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:54,479 Speaker 1: and a half month pregnant lady sixteen times. I remember 363 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: when I was at at six months, I couldn't even 364 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,239 Speaker 1: walk anymore. I think I told Kieren this. We were 365 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,680 Speaker 1: together at some point when I was pregnant, I was 366 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,480 Speaker 1: already in a wheelchair. I couldn't breathe. I didn't know 367 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: i'd have blood clot cemilans, but I couldn't breathe, and 368 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: I couldn't walk. And I'm just imagining Sharon Tate. And 369 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,240 Speaker 1: we always hear about Sharon Tate, But who are the 370 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: other victims? At least A stateman J C. Bring. He 371 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: was a renowned men's hair stylist. He was working on 372 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: becoming an international franchise with C. Bring International. He had 373 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: so many hopes and dreams, everything his entire life reaching 374 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 1: out for him. We have Abigail Folter, who spent her 375 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: entire life helping others. She went into Watts, which was, 376 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: you know, a pretty scary place to go for a 377 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: young woman. She would go. You know, these were the 378 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 1: where the riots were and where the gangs were, and 379 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: she would go there every day to help others. She 380 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: you know, she spent most of her life helping others. 381 00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 1: And you know what the newspapers wrote about her, that 382 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 1: she was an heiress providing drug money to her boyfriend. 383 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: You know, those are let's remember also, you know what 384 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: was said about these people. But I want to go 385 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: back to you said when they were stabbing Sharon. What 386 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: nobody remembers and nobody touches upon is what these killers 387 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: said as they were killing them, and the horrendous things 388 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: that they were saying as they did it, like saying that, 389 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: you know, paunching the knife into Sharon was a sexual release, 390 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 1: Susan Atkins. You know, those are the things that when 391 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: Karen says that these are Calou's horrible human beings, we 392 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 1: have to go back to what they were, what they 393 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: have testified to saying as they were taking the life 394 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:37,719 Speaker 1: from these people. You know, I didn't know that fact. 395 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: You know, I've dealt for so long with Vincent Bugliosi. 396 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: Who is he? He's an icon to me? And yes, 397 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,840 Speaker 1: I know every human has their faults, but I really 398 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: looked up to him, and it seems like with his passing, 399 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 1: the fervor behind, the strength behind keeping these guys in 400 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: jail seems to have waned. Right now, Leslie van Houghton, 401 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: a member of the Manson family, has been paroled by 402 00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,679 Speaker 1: the Pardoner in Parole Board of California. I don't know 403 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,400 Speaker 1: what they're thinking, but it's got to go through Governor 404 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: Jerry Brown. Now I want you to hear but my producer, 405 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: my EP has come up with Alan Duke. Please roll 406 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,640 Speaker 1: the sound of Leslie van Houghton talking to her lawyer 407 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: about the murders. And as you Alan Duke put it, 408 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: it sounds like she's just talking about going on a 409 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: shopping excursion. Listen. And I took the night and I 410 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: started stabbing, and I turned into the animal almost you know, 411 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: I just completely let out on that woman's back stabbing. 412 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't really have any idea in my mind. 413 00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: But it's a real feeling. It's not even like cutting 414 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: a piece of meat. It's much tougher. I had to 415 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: use good hands, all my strength behind it to get 416 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,880 Speaker 1: it in. And so once I started, the feeling was 417 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: so weird that I just kept doing it. She was dead. 418 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: I remember seeing her laying in front of her closet 419 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: and bloody on her stomach, and her head was covered, 420 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: so I didn't see her face. I kind of wish 421 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 1: I had it because I could have seen what I 422 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: had done more. Katy get to night in her throat 423 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: and it wouldn't go. Remember the man laying on the sofa, 424 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:29,959 Speaker 1: gurgle and deep, bloody gurgle, and so the alice looked freaky. 425 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,360 Speaker 1: And then Katie and Jakes when I came out of 426 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: the bedroom and we're taking a shower, and then after 427 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: that we were hungry, and so we went and we 428 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,280 Speaker 1: took some cheese and milk. All the refrigerator with me, 429 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: Guys is Alan Deep Alan. She's talking, you know, spontaneously 430 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: and naturally to her lawyers. Tell me exactly what she 431 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: was just saying, don't leave anything out. This was ninety 432 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: one and she was briefing her new lawyer on the 433 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,080 Speaker 1: case and it was being recorded. So she was just 434 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: talking about how it's out to kill, how it felt 435 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,240 Speaker 1: not just like cutting meat, but it felt different than 436 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: cutting meat. But what's striking to me? Whoa whoa, whoa 437 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,520 Speaker 1: she said it was like cutting meat. Cutting me. Alicia Statman, 438 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: tell me, By the way, everybody with me is Karen Smith, 439 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: forensics expert and Alicia Statman, author of Restless Souls, the 440 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 1: Sharon Tate Family's account of stardom, the Manson Murders, and 441 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 1: a Crusade for Justice. Tell me the significance of hearing 442 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: Leslie Van Houghton briefing her new lawyer. You know, what 443 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: she was saying was is that it was different. And 444 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 1: first of all, let me go back. She's explaining the 445 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: murder of Rosemary and Leno la Bianca specifically and mostly 446 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: what it was like to stab Rosemary la Bianca on 447 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: that night, and she said it was different than cutting 448 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,560 Speaker 1: a piece of meat. It was so real and once 449 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: I started, I couldn't stop, and I let loose on 450 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: that woman's back and I became an animal. You know, 451 00:30:56,120 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: I think, what's so significant, right, White White Way, Elsa. 452 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I know you and Alan have listened to 453 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: that bit of sound many times, but I'm just hearing 454 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: it for the first time that she and I want 455 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: everybody to hear it that she turned into an animal 456 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:25,000 Speaker 1: and let loose on the woman's back. Okay, I'm just 457 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: trying to take it in. What you're saying, I guess 458 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 1: as praise. I've never gotten jaded because just hearing it, 459 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:37,200 Speaker 1: I think it like my mom or my husband, or 460 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: my children, and this happening to them. Okay, tell me again, 461 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,160 Speaker 1: what what did you just say, Lisa That she as 462 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: far as what the tape said, she said that it 463 00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: was like it was not like cutting a piece of meat, 464 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: which she had done before. It was different than cutting 465 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: a piece of meat. It was very real, and it 466 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,719 Speaker 1: was so real that you just wanted to keep doing it. 467 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: I think that what is significant about this tape and 468 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: why people need to hear it and to listen to 469 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: it carefully, is because this is the woman that the 470 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:15,840 Speaker 1: parole board just decided to let loose on our society. 471 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 1: And what happens is is that these parole boards don't 472 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 1: look back to what happened that night. They look forward 473 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: to what's happened to the criminal inside the institution and 474 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,080 Speaker 1: all of the wonderful things that they've done. And they 475 00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: need to look back, and so does the public and 476 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:40,960 Speaker 1: remember what these crimes were about and how horrific they were. 477 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,360 Speaker 1: You know, Alan, she's bringing up a really good point, Alan, 478 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:52,080 Speaker 1: because I remember when Simpson Ornolo James Simpson was paroled 479 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:58,520 Speaker 1: in Vegas and he was sitting there looking me and mild. 480 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: Of course he did kind of like pick can fight 481 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: with a prole board, but they choose to ignore it. 482 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: But everyone was talking about he's done his time, he uh, 483 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: which of course he had, and that was the minimum 484 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: amount of time until he came up for parole, the minimum. 485 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: But that aside. When I look at him, I think 486 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: of the moment that Ron Goldman is stabbed over and over, 487 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:29,680 Speaker 1: and I think about the moment Nicole Brown's head is 488 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: nearly sliced off, and the screaming in the blood, and 489 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 1: the frenzy and the awfulness, and the children raised without 490 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:46,160 Speaker 1: a mother, and they have the power. The pardoning roll 491 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 1: board has the power. And everybody laughed at me. That's fine. 492 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,720 Speaker 1: I knew that was coming. When I said I think 493 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,480 Speaker 1: they should keep him in, I knew it was coming. Okay, fine, 494 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,240 Speaker 1: I'm not in this to be crowned Miss sweet Potato 495 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 1: or Miss Congeniality. I never thought that was going to happen. 496 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,320 Speaker 1: The moment I became a prosecutor, that all bets are 497 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: off for congeniality. But in this case it's it's even 498 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: more stark to me because so many deaths, so many butchered, 499 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: butchered people. Alan, Well, this is not like the O. J. 500 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 1: Simpson in one way, and that he was only convicted 501 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 1: of stealing some autograph stuff in a casino, but it 502 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,760 Speaker 1: is definitely like it, and that they weren't really looking 503 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,759 Speaker 1: at the original crime. They only wanted how well was 504 00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: he doing in prison? Back to Elsa's Statman with Me 505 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,240 Speaker 1: is Elsa, author of Restless Souls, the Sharon Tate Family's 506 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,600 Speaker 1: account of stardom, the Manson Murders and a Crusade for Justice, 507 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,400 Speaker 1: and Karen L. Smith, forensics expert. You know again, I 508 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,200 Speaker 1: always hear about Sharon Tate, and everybody does, because she's 509 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: just absolutely physically beautiful, and that's the picture that we 510 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:02,120 Speaker 1: always have in our mom kind of her pregnant. Just 511 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:06,200 Speaker 1: one of the most beautiful people I've ever seen. But 512 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: there are other victims, other victims that died a horrible death, 513 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: for instance Leno and Rosemary Lambianca. Uh, I don't understand her. 514 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 1: Tell me Leslie van Houghton's role in the murders Alsa. 515 00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 1: Here's the crazy thing about Leslie van Houghton. As you know, 516 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 1: they had been out the night before at Sharon's house. 517 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: What Leslie van Houghton has admitted to is that when 518 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,560 Speaker 1: they decided to go out the second night, she knew 519 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: that they were going specifically out to murder, and she 520 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,839 Speaker 1: willingly went, there's no other reason why they were going. 521 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:49,759 Speaker 1: She can't put it off on. She thought it was 522 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: going to be a robbery or whatever, a thousand other excuses. 523 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 1: She knew they were going to murder, and she wanted 524 00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: to go, And that says something a lot right there. 525 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,719 Speaker 1: The second thing is, and I think that this is 526 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 1: what has bothered the governor in the past two times 527 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 1: that he shot down her chance of roll is that 528 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: she minimizes her role in these murders by saying that 529 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: she only stabbed Rosemary fourteen to sixteen times in the 530 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,280 Speaker 1: lower back after she was dead. Only now, wait a minute, 531 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: according to court records and correct me if I'm wrong, 532 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:25,520 Speaker 1: Leslie van Houten actually tied a pillowcase around Rosemary's head 533 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: and then she held Rosemary down with a pillowcase. Can 534 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 1: you imagine the terror of being surprised ambushed in your 535 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: own home, having a pillowcase pulled over your head, a 536 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: woman holding you down as other people stabbed her dozens 537 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,400 Speaker 1: of times. And then she picked up a butcher knife 538 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: and stabbed the woman fourteen to sixteen times after holding 539 00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 1: her down with a pillow case over her head. Right now, 540 00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:03,200 Speaker 1: let your voice be heard. You have a say in this. 541 00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,759 Speaker 1: You can have a voice. California Governor Jerry Brown at 542 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: the State Capitol nine one six four four five to 543 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: eight four one repeat nine one six four four five 544 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: to eight four one or email Governor at Governor dot 545 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:26,320 Speaker 1: c a dot gov. Repeat Governor at Governor dot c 546 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 1: a dot gov. At this important juncture in criminal justice, 547 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: one of the most notorious mass murders in US history 548 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,240 Speaker 1: is once again coming to a head. Leslie van Houten, 549 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,960 Speaker 1: one of the main members of the Charles Manson so 550 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 1: called family who committed mass murder, has been paroled by 551 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,480 Speaker 1: the California Pardon and Parole Board. It's now up to 552 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: Governor Jerry Brown as to whether he will allow Van 553 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 1: Houghton to walk. But if you take a look at 554 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,800 Speaker 1: van hout and you see your dress up like uh 555 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 1: mile mannered librarian when she's at the Partner Parole board. 556 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 1: Listen to this, You're going to start by killing, by 557 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,440 Speaker 1: doing a murder. It had no sense behind and where 558 00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:20,720 Speaker 1: we were all almost fascinated by the thought of killing people. 559 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 1: It had to be done, and really only was that 560 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: saw that I had you done. Me and Katie and 561 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,759 Speaker 1: Sadie and Clem. We all went out that night. We 562 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 1: went driving around, couldn't find any place, and I was tired, 563 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: and so we went to sleep. When I woke up, 564 00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: I heard Charlie talking into Sadie and he said, they 565 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: think it's a Bobrey. They're tied up. Just go on in. 566 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,760 Speaker 1: I got the wallets. Just make it quick and easy. 567 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:45,000 Speaker 1: So we went in, you know, and the woman she 568 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: turned around and say, what are you guys doing here? 569 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,799 Speaker 1: Was really kind. We're just gonna take your money. Were 570 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:55,120 Speaker 1: supposed to go mat the women and pretty hood on her, 571 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: because all of a sudden she jumped up. She got 572 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 1: the lamp and I put her back with Eno and 573 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: we came all right, and Katie tried to do and 574 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:10,919 Speaker 1: straight out to author of Restless Souls, the Sharon Tate 575 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 1: Family's account of stardom, the Manson Murders, and a Crusade 576 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 1: for Justice, Elisa statement is with me along with renowned 577 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: forensics expert Karen Smith. Alisa explained to me what Leslie 578 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: van Houten was just saying. She was in a Nutchell Nancy. 579 00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,760 Speaker 1: She was explaining the night of the La Bianca murders 580 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 1: before and after they got to the house, and she 581 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: was saying that they drove around looking for a victim, 582 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:36,920 Speaker 1: so she knew that they were going to murder. That 583 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: they got to the La Bianca house, and she had 584 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,880 Speaker 1: been so calm during the driving around looking for people 585 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: to butcher, that she had fallen to sleep. So they're 586 00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 1: driving around at night in California. And remember, Leslie van 587 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:54,040 Speaker 1: Houten and Charles Manson were both sentenced to the death penalty. Okay, 588 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,759 Speaker 1: Vincent Bugliosi prosecuted this, God rest his soul. They were 589 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:02,359 Speaker 1: given the death penalty, and then the U. S. Supreme Court, 590 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 1: in its wisdom, reversed the death penalty for a period 591 00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: of years, so their dps were thrown out and they 592 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:13,240 Speaker 1: got life behind bars. Vanhattan is spent after she escapes 593 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,720 Speaker 1: death for all the murders, has spent her entire time 594 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:22,719 Speaker 1: behind bars trying to get out. So back to you, Alica, 595 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: you're saying they're out driving around looking for somebody to butcher. 596 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: That's what they're doing. Yes, that's correct. And while they're 597 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: doing that, Leslie van Houten falls asleep. H She wakes 598 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:41,280 Speaker 1: up when they get to the LaBianca house and Manson 599 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: has already been inside, and he tells them that he's 600 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 1: tied them up, that they think it's only going to 601 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 1: be a robbery, and that they're very calm, and he 602 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,000 Speaker 1: tells them to go in and kill them. The tape 603 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,000 Speaker 1: then continues and it says that she went in, they 604 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: got Rosemary la Bianca. They put a pillowcase over her 605 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,359 Speaker 1: head and they took her into the bedroom. Once they 606 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:05,000 Speaker 1: were in the bedroom, they started to kill Lena la 607 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:09,040 Speaker 1: Bianca in the living room, and Rosemary heard her husband 608 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: being murdered and started screaming, what are you doing to Leno, 609 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: at which point they tried to start stabbing her, and 610 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: Rosemary broke free of her hand bindings, grabbed the lamp 611 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: cord that was attached around her neck and started swinging 612 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:31,279 Speaker 1: at them to try and save her life. They tackled her. 613 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,480 Speaker 1: The victim grabs a lamp and start swinging at it 614 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: everybody to make them stop as they're killing the husband. 615 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:44,160 Speaker 1: And what happens. They tackled her, they held her down, 616 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,760 Speaker 1: and they stabbed her to death. Her Leslie van Houghton 617 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,719 Speaker 1: and Patricia crime Winkle. Now that's a visual that will 618 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,840 Speaker 1: give you nightmares for the rest of your life. Victim 619 00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: while the swinging a lamp to keep these vultures off 620 00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 1: the husband and to save her own life. Yeah, you 621 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: know what, I'm gonna be thinking about that tonight before 622 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: I go to sleep, wildly swinging a lamp to get 623 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: them away. But it didn't work. Van Houghton and the 624 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:19,480 Speaker 1: Manson family out the second night of butchering on a 625 00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 1: killing spree, invade the home of Leno and Rosemary la Bianca. 626 00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: First they terrorized them horribly before killing them. Then Van 627 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 1: Hatton holes Rosemary down as other people stab her. Then 628 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,680 Speaker 1: Van Houghton plunges a knife into Rosemary over a dozen times. 629 00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:46,480 Speaker 1: Then they write messages on the walls using the victim's blood. 630 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:52,719 Speaker 1: It wasn't just murders, it was terrorism. And I'll tell 631 00:42:52,760 --> 00:43:01,239 Speaker 1: you why because Alica's stateman, Charles Manson, in some crazy way, 632 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 1: was trying to start a race war. Yeah, a lot 633 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,920 Speaker 1: of people don't know this, that's the whole intent behind 634 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,239 Speaker 1: these murders. He didn't even know these people, and he 635 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: wanted the members the murders to get the project started 636 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:22,840 Speaker 1: by putting the city in a state of panic, a 637 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,880 Speaker 1: race war. Have you ever heard anything so crazy in 638 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,239 Speaker 1: your life, Karen Smith? I mean, when you see a 639 00:43:28,280 --> 00:43:32,080 Speaker 1: crime scene, you're looking for clues, you're looking for evidence. 640 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:36,200 Speaker 1: You know, fibers, bloods better. But the motive they murdered 641 00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:40,640 Speaker 1: all these people to start a race war. Who would 642 00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: have even imagined that that's true? Nancy. And you know, 643 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: Vincent Guliosi did a brilliant prosecutorial move by bringing that 644 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: into the courtroom and putting those pieces together for trial, 645 00:43:50,080 --> 00:43:53,320 Speaker 1: to get the people behind bars that needed to be there. Um. 646 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 1: You know, some people made a question that everyone that 647 00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:59,319 Speaker 1: was involved not be behind bars quite yet. But at 648 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:04,120 Speaker 1: this point, you know, letting Leslie van Houghton out should 649 00:44:04,160 --> 00:44:06,440 Speaker 1: be off the table. You said that she received the 650 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,600 Speaker 1: death penalty and then it was rescinded in the seventies. Um, 651 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,400 Speaker 1: she got lucky once. Now they're deciding to let her 652 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:17,040 Speaker 1: out again. I've worked hundreds of murders. I've never heard 653 00:44:17,120 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 1: or seen anything to this. Scale in my career, and 654 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:26,080 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine how the victims families feel about this, 655 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,799 Speaker 1: and I think that they're being very discounted. And I 656 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,080 Speaker 1: think that, you know, I don't care. You can dress 657 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,200 Speaker 1: Leslie van Houghton in a nun's habit, in a wimple 658 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,719 Speaker 1: and give her a doctorate in divinity. I really don't 659 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: care what she's done in prison. I don't care. She's vicious, 660 00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:46,319 Speaker 1: she's a horrific human being, and she is exactly where 661 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 1: she belongs. Well, the whole thing is, if we don't 662 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:57,440 Speaker 1: have enough problems, okay, simmering resentment over the past and 663 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:05,160 Speaker 1: ongoing racial tension and anger, now we have a woman 664 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 1: and the Manson family whose intent in these crazy, horrible 665 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:17,800 Speaker 1: crimes was to instill terror and panic, to instigate fear. 666 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,520 Speaker 1: That's what it was all about. A lot of people 667 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:25,880 Speaker 1: don't know that. And as you were just saying, um, 668 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy two, the state's process for the death 669 00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 1: penalty was decided to be unconstitutional and everybody had their 670 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:39,960 Speaker 1: dps reversed. Everything went sideways. Her lawyer died during the trial, 671 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:44,120 Speaker 1: and appeals court just gave her a new trial. I mean, 672 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,799 Speaker 1: it goes back and forth her that it was a 673 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,480 Speaker 1: very rocky road and now she's up for parole again. 674 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:56,760 Speaker 1: If you disagree nine one six four four five two 675 00:45:56,920 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: eight four one or right governor at governor dot c 676 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:09,440 Speaker 1: a dot gov. Listen to Charles Manson in his interview 677 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:15,640 Speaker 1: with ABC's Diane Sawyer. I'm not a violent human being. 678 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,720 Speaker 1: Did you tell the women to do their witchy things? 679 00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,719 Speaker 1: I said, if you're going to do something, leave something witchy, 680 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:26,200 Speaker 1: just like I would tell you if you're going to 681 00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:31,040 Speaker 1: do something, do it well and leave something witchy. Leave 682 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: a sign to let the world know that you were there. 683 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:37,200 Speaker 1: Have a good day. Did you tell them which words? No, 684 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:43,719 Speaker 1: pig helter skelter rise. It's not my vocabulary, that's not 685 00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:48,919 Speaker 1: my generation. I keep telling you that. In the car 686 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,040 Speaker 1: on the way to the Lobianca house, you said, this time, 687 00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: make sure they're not scared like last night. Oh no, 688 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:03,880 Speaker 1: there may have been something like this. Uh yeah that 689 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,400 Speaker 1: I remember something like that, but I don't remember exactly 690 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: the right words. I don't remember exactly the right words. 691 00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 1: But that's that's a simple that's a simple philosophy from China. 692 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,720 Speaker 1: That's a Chinese philosophy, you know, if if you're gonna, 693 00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 1: if you're gonna go to war and you're fighting your 694 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,600 Speaker 1: enemy and you kill him when he's afraid, you know, 695 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: it's a bad omen. It's bad. It's bad, So you 696 00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:31,920 Speaker 1: try to absorb the fear with I think the Hindus 697 00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:36,000 Speaker 1: use that word karma to balance a karma. Did you 698 00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,680 Speaker 1: tell them to mutilate so that it would be memorable 699 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,800 Speaker 1: so that people would know something was going on? Or 700 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,959 Speaker 1: did you tell them to do it in a memorable way? Hey, 701 00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,439 Speaker 1: I told you what I told him. If you're gonna move, 702 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: you're gonna do something, do it with your soul and 703 00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:55,120 Speaker 1: your heart. Do it right, man, don't have step on it. 704 00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,640 Speaker 1: Did they do it right? I don't know. That's so 705 00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:01,800 Speaker 1: to them. They live with that. They're responsible for their actions. 706 00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:05,840 Speaker 1: I'm responsible for my actions. Is Charlie Manson crazy or 707 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,600 Speaker 1: whatever that means? Sure, he's crazy as mad as a hatter? 708 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 1: What difference does it make? You know? A long time ago, 709 00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,160 Speaker 1: being crazy meant something. Nowadays everybody's crazy. So I mean, 710 00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:18,000 Speaker 1: you know, like you know, it's anonymous Sunday, it's irony 711 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,320 Speaker 1: man at a pair of ducks? I mean, are you crazy? 712 00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,759 Speaker 1: Dressed in black? You think I don't know everything. It 713 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,120 Speaker 1: goes with that black you're dressed in. Yeah, where's your 714 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:32,520 Speaker 1: black gloves? Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing off goodbye friend,