1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:05,359 Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 2 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: Okay you hear me? 3 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,159 Speaker 2: Okay, yes, I can. Can you hear me? 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: All right? Yeah, it's a little scratchy, but we can 5 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: do a cleaner interview later. So let's just get going. 6 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:24,479 Speaker 2: Okay, good to you. 7 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: Let's talk about this story which is in your family 8 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: tree and a story you know a lot about. Yeah, 9 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: this is Patricia Childs, who's relative from deep in her 10 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,640 Speaker 1: family tree, was troubled right from the start of his life. 11 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 1: His name was Eugene Bert, and he lived in Austin, 12 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 1: Texas in the late eighteen hundreds. Eugene was never a 13 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 1: particularly successful person. He always lived in the shadows of 14 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: other people in his family. His ambitious older brothers were 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: both businessmen. His father was the city's physician, a brilliant 16 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: mind who used the bodies of victims to help investigators 17 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: solve crimes. All three of the elder Birds were well 18 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: respected professionals, but Eugene was not. He was a shyster, 19 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: a manipulator, and an envious man who would eventually become 20 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 1: a killer. So this story isn't really a who done it? 21 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: But more like who does he kill? And why was 22 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: he born a killer or were there other reasons? Unraveling 23 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: all of this will be a challenge. So, Patricia, there's 24 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: no question that Eugene did this right. This is more 25 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: about why he did it, what was a reason behind it, 26 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: And it's really complicated, And the fact that this takes 27 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: place in the eighteen hundreds makes it even more complicated. 28 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: When you're talking about mental illness. At that point, we 29 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 2: haven't come too far beyond thinking that the mo is 30 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: what makes people go berserk, right right? 31 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: I write about psychiatry in the eighteen hundreds, and my 32 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: research has found that there were some interesting but pretty 33 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: disturbing ideas back then, like ebilepsy was considered a mental 34 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: illness in the eighteen hundreds. 35 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 2: There was a claim that was made that was disturbing 36 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: to me that the mother was insane while she had 37 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: been carrying him in her womb, and so that could 38 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 2: have affected him. 39 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: What did you think about that. 40 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: Imagine the guilt that someone would feel if they were 41 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: having a hormone what we now would think of as 42 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 2: a hormonal imbalance, or you know, depression while they're carrying 43 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,960 Speaker 2: a child. That can be quite common, but for someone 44 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 2: to insinuate that that could cause your baby to become, 45 00:02:52,760 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: you know, a murderer. I mean, and I thought wow. 46 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a crime historian and the author 47 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 1: of the new audio book The Ghost Club and the 48 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: book All That Is Wicked, And this is our new 49 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: season of tenfold More Wicked. For this season, we're in 50 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: eighteen nineties Austin, Texas, and that's where I live. I 51 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: teach journalism at the University of Texas. We are calling 52 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: this story The Annihilator, but this isn't a tale about 53 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: the city's famous Servant Girl Annihilator, or at least not 54 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: only about the Servant Girl Annihilator. That story is woven 55 00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: in because some of the main characters were involved with 56 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: that series of murders a few years earlier. This story 57 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: is about a different set of murders when a young 58 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: man who saw first hand what that killer did to women, 59 00:03:56,360 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 1: decided one night to pick up an X. But it's 60 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: all connected to the Servant Girl Annihilator. We're going to 61 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: try to figure out just how connected they are. Eugene 62 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: Bird's case takes place about a decade later. This is 63 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: a case about murder and families and mental illness and 64 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: the wrong type of legacy. Let's take this from the 65 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: beginning with a set of murders a decade before the 66 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: ones we're going to be focusing on this season, the 67 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:35,039 Speaker 1: Servant Girl Annihilator murders, because, as we'll see in a 68 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: curious twist of fate, those murders will end up being 69 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: intimately connected to the murders of Eugene Burt's family through 70 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: his own father. So here's a brief summary. Between eighteen 71 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,120 Speaker 1: eighty four and eighteen eighty five in Austin, Texas, somewhat 72 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: murdered eight people. Several were lobotomized and then killed with 73 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: a knife or an axe. You would think that the 74 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 1: press and the law would be all over this story, 75 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: but in fact they weren't because in this case, the 76 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,159 Speaker 1: five victims were women of color, thus the name the 77 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 1: Servant Girl Annihilator. The killer also murdered one man of color, 78 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,359 Speaker 1: but white reporters paid little attention because the murders only 79 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: affected a disenfranchised group who were marginalized to begin with, 80 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: six gruesome axe attacks weren't enough to attract the press 81 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: until two white women were murdered on Christmas Eve in 82 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty five. Then the press paid attention. People in 83 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: Austin panicked, and the hunt for the Servant Girl Annihilator began, 84 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: complete with bloodhounds. Michael Barnes is a local historian, a writer, 85 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: and a podcaster who has studied the story of the 86 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 1: Servant Girl Annihilator. He gives us context on that case, 87 00:05:54,800 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: which will in turn give us context on our own case, which. 88 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 3: Is always somewhat dictated by the national interest in a 89 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 3: local story. It was the first famous case of a 90 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 3: serial killery, and so newspapers from all across the country 91 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 3: Saint Louis, Chicago, Boston, New York sent reporters to Austin 92 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 3: to cover it. 93 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: These were very violent murders because they involved a brutal weapon, 94 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: and they also involved sexual assault. And if those two 95 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: things weren't disturbing enough, the killer did something highly unusual. 96 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 1: As I mentioned before, he lobotomized some of his victims 97 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: by driving a sharp metal object through their heads to 98 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: torture them and the people who would discover their bodies. 99 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: Local tour guide and historian Monica Ballard explains. 100 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 4: There was a metal pin, smaller than like a railroad 101 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 4: tie nail, but certainly larger than a hat pin or 102 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 4: something like that. Hammered through the ear into the brain 103 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 4: with a hammer, yeah, or the other side of an 104 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 4: axe or something like that. 105 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: Why would a killer lobottomize his victim. Serial killer Jeffrey 106 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: Dahmer had drilled holes in the heads of some of 107 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: his victims while they were drugged before he killed them. 108 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:19,320 Speaker 1: Dahmer thought he could control them by making them zombies. 109 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:24,240 Speaker 1: A lobotomy would be incredibly cruel, the act of a sadistic, 110 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: disturbed person who reveled in causing someone pain, and finding 111 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: a killer like that would be difficult for Austin's law enforcement. 112 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: Such as it was in the eighteen hundreds, Austin was 113 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: still a little bit like the Wild West. There was 114 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: no organized police force, no real law and order, so 115 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: when investigators arrived at each crime scene, they had a 116 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 1: tough time. And after each murder. There was one person 117 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: who was consistently present, the city's physician. His name was 118 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,040 Speaker 1: William Burt, and he was a leader in the community. 119 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: He was edge and respected, even revered. Whenever the forty 120 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: seven year old doctor was notified of the crime, he 121 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: would travel to that part of the city unzip his 122 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 1: medical bag and examine the victims. Bert was the man 123 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: who helped investigators solve crime by providing them with physical evidence. 124 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: He might run tests, study bullet holes, and determine cause 125 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: of death. Doctor William Burt was incredibly important. His medical 126 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 1: knowledge was respected. He understood death, and in late December 127 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: of eighteen eighty five, as William Burt examined one of 128 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: the final two victims of the Servant Girl Annihilator, someone 129 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: else gazed down at her body. His teenage son Eugene, 130 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: had been at home when police officers knocked on his 131 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: father's door requesting that doctor Burt report to a murder scene. 132 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: I know this is a lot of information up front 133 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: about this story, but it's important that you have contexts 134 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: because one of the things we want to know is this. 135 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: If this young man saw the scene of an axe 136 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: murderer and then more than a decade later did almost 137 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: the same thing, what did that mean? Because it must 138 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 1: have meant something. But before we get into all of that, 139 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: let's go back even farther in time to find out 140 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: the history of the Burt family, because it's an interesting 141 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 1: and an important history. On February twenty ninth, eighteen sixty, 142 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: William Jefferson Burt married Cynthia Melinda Chloe Palmer. Friends and 143 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: family called her Cleo. They were originally from Georgia, and 144 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: they were just two years apart in age, and they 145 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: seemed to really want children because they had three of 146 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: them pretty quickly. They didn't even wait until William finished 147 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 1: medical school. They had three boys who were each two 148 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: years apart. Montrose Bert was the eldest, named after his 149 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: mother's father. Everyone called him Monte. He was born in 150 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: Georgia in eighteen sixty five, just three months after the 151 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 1: end of the Civil War. Roscoe came two years later 152 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: in eighteen sixty seven after the Birds moved to Texas, 153 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,679 Speaker 1: and then Eugene was born two years after that. In 154 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty nine, I asked Patricia Chiles where her family 155 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: line was in the Burt family history. 156 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 5: Cleo Palmer was the mother of William Eugene. She's a Palmer, 157 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 5: so it's through the Palmers, and then you've got to 158 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 5: go through all the Palmers to get up to where 159 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 5: Cleo married William Jefferson and they had William Eugene. 160 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: So you're related to Eugene's mother Cleo, and so is Julie. 161 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 5: Julie, wait till you talk to Julie. She lives and 162 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 5: breathes genealogy. 163 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: Julie Norton is a former statius to she and she 164 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: really does live and breathe genealogy. She's done a tremendous 165 00:11:04,559 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: amount of research on her family. 166 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 6: So I didn't really know anything until Patricia asbian So 167 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 6: I looked at the newspaper article. And because I was 168 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 6: interested in him, of course, I'm interested in his two brothers, 169 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 6: and did notice that they ran a shoe business there 170 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 6: in Austin, and they had married two sisters who were 171 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 6: second generation, that is, their parents were born in France 172 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 6: and they were born here. And that of course sets 173 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,320 Speaker 6: up a dynamic of success. Really, at least usually it 174 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 6: does that, because everybody thinks America's paved with difficult They 175 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 6: worked hard and their husbands worked harded that it's very 176 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 6: successful a shoe business. 177 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: So Roscoe and Monte married sisters and they both became 178 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: successful businessmen. But right now we're talking about the childhoods 179 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: of the Birt boys. All three were educated in public schools. 180 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 1: They went to the Protestant church near their home, and 181 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: Eugene and his brothers seemed to enjoy Sunday services. Their mother, Cleo, 182 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: was a homemaker and their father was a physician. After 183 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: doctor Burt finished medical school in eighteen sixty one, he 184 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: became a local physician and a surgeon back in Georgia. 185 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: But then he wanted a more stable position, so he 186 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 1: took a job as the city physician for Austin, Texas. 187 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: A city physician is now an antiquated job in America, 188 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: but it's still a career in some European countries. In 189 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: eighteen hundreds, Texas, a city physician was appointed by the 190 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: city council, and they were responsible for overseeing the health 191 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: of the city's residents. They would supervise how the poor 192 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: were treated medically, particularly during epidemics like cholera. They supervised 193 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 1: pharmacies and midwives and barbershops and of course other physicians, 194 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,600 Speaker 1: and they would also guide the city's the annotation plan. 195 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: Doctor William Burt seemed to be especially concerned about that 196 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: aspect of his job. 197 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 4: I do know that he was a great proponent of sanitation. 198 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 4: He wrote articles and op eds for the newspaper and 199 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 4: various medical journals about sanitation efforts, about the sewage system, 200 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 4: and so He was a terrific proponent of sanitary conditions. 201 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: Doctor Burt seemed community oriented, and the city relied on 202 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: him for his medical experience and for his knowledge of 203 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 1: examining patients who were victims of crime. He reported to 204 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: all crime scenes, and he conducted autopsies in suspected murder cases. 205 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 1: Doctor Burt was often called to court for all different 206 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: types of cases. The year before, he had investigated the 207 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: stabbing of a man in his home in downtown Austin. 208 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 1: In court, Bert said this, I examined the person of L. E. Edwards. 209 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: I saw him in the bedroom near his office. He 210 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: was sitting with his shirt off and with his back 211 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: to the door. The upper part of his body exposed. 212 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: Upon examination, found six puncture wounds. In the eighteen eighties, 213 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 1: doctor Burt solved medical mysteries and crimes. And it sounds 214 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: like Austin was pretty wild in the nineteenth century. I 215 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: asked local historian Michael Barnes about Austin almost one hundred 216 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: and fifty years ago. Can you give me an idea 217 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: of what society was like in general in Austin in 218 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: the late eighteen hundreds. 219 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 3: It was about twenty thousand people at most It did 220 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 3: not have paved streets. It was still a little bit 221 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 3: of a frontier town. It didn't have a lot of wealth. 222 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 3: It finally got a railroad in eighteen seventy one. It 223 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 3: was not an an industrial center, even though they tried 224 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 3: to do that with a dam they built on the 225 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 3: Colorado River in the eighteen nineties, it just never happened. 226 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 3: It was a kind of a backwater. And they still 227 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 3: say a sleepy college and capital town. That's really all 228 00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 3: there was. There are only two businesses, and that was 229 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 3: the university and capital. 230 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: Austin is the capital of Texas, so many people then 231 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: and now worked at the Capitol building to help support 232 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: the state government, and religion was important to Austinites. One 233 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: of the fastest growing Christian churches in America was a 234 00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: Catholic church. One of the most revered churches in Austin 235 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: is Saint mary Cathedral on Tenth and Brazos downtown. The 236 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: church itself began in eighteen fifty as a small stone 237 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: church named Saint Patrick's, about a block south of the 238 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: current building. Ted Ubanks is a parishioner at Saint Mary's 239 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 1: and he's done extensive research on the cathedral's history as 240 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: well as the history of Catholics in Austin. We talked 241 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: about the demographic of Austin in the late eighteen hundreds. 242 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 7: Well, it would have been largely white, and many of 243 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:56,880 Speaker 7: the members would have been some European derivation. We had Irish, 244 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 7: we had German, We've had a few British, some French, 245 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 7: but it was a mixture because remember, everybody in Austin 246 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 7: came from somewhere at the beginning. It's also the beginning 247 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 7: of the working class. There was no great wealth in 248 00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 7: the city. 249 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: Who were the Catholics at Austin during this time were 250 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:18,239 Speaker 1: many of them immigrants. 251 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 7: Those were German and Czech and Polish moving into this 252 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,040 Speaker 7: area and they were Catholic. So even at that time 253 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 7: there's a growing Catholic church. 254 00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 1: Saint Mary Cathedral played a big role in the story 255 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: of the Birds. It would become a central source of 256 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: conflict for a very troubled family. The church was important, 257 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: but in the time of reconstruction after the Civil War, 258 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 1: politics were also big. I spoke to University of Texas 259 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 1: history professor Walter Banger. 260 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 8: So the eighteen nineties is intensely competitive politically. There's still 261 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 8: in some areas a viable Republican party, mainly African American voters. 262 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:28,560 Speaker 8: In the eighteen nineties. There are still a strong Democratic Party, 263 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 8: but not as strong as it would be by the 264 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 8: nineteen twenties and thirties, and so the politics is intensely competitive, 265 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 8: and this sometimes led to violence. There are increasing attempts 266 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 8: to maybe the word is civilize a place like Austin. 267 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,800 Speaker 8: There were gun control laws then more strict than now. 268 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: Actually Austinite seemed to take crime seriously, except, of course, 269 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,679 Speaker 1: in less it involved people of color, particularly women of color, 270 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: like the victims of the Servant Girl annihilator. The level 271 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: of violence that killer seemed to enjoy hadn't happened in 272 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: Austin before eighteen eighty four, but just fifteen years later 273 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: it would repeat itself in the Burt family. And because 274 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: of what would happen inside one little house just three 275 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: blocks from the church, mental health experts would study Eugene 276 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: Burt's case for decades afterward. When the Burt boys were young, 277 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: the family seemed happy, but you never really know about 278 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 1: a marriage or the family dynamic. Clearly, something was really 279 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 1: off with the Berts. Like most families, their history was complicated, 280 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: and Patricia Chiles says there seemed to be an odd 281 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: relationship between the three brothers. Roscoe and Monty were clearly 282 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: close as children, and they would become even closer as adults, 283 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: but Eugene seemed isolated from the beginning. 284 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 5: They were only two years apart in age. That was 285 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 5: interesting to me. It would seem that in a normal 286 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,680 Speaker 5: family they would have been kind of teamed up, right, 287 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 5: like comrades, running around on a summer day, what are 288 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 5: we going to do next? And I don't know if 289 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 5: they had that kind of relationship though he seemed to 290 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 5: be by himself. 291 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: Maybe he was a sickly child. In eighteen seventy six, 292 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: when Eugene was just seven years old, he almost died 293 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: from pneumonia. He was dangerously ill for three days. Still, 294 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 1: Eugene seemed almost aloof as he grew older. But the 295 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: family had bigger problems than a distant younger brother, Cleo. 296 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: Bert seemed to have mental health issues. Considering that today 297 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: almost twenty percent of American adults are experiencing mental illness, 298 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: it's not surprising it was present one hundred and fifty 299 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: years ago. Hard to know what that percentage was back 300 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: in the eighteen hundreds because there were very few distinctions 301 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: between symptoms that were connected to behavior. Even epilepsy was 302 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: considered a mental illness at the time, and as we've 303 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: talked about in other seasons, in the early eighteen hundreds, 304 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: humane care for the mentally ill was not the norm. 305 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: In eighteen eighty four, when Eugene was just about fifteen, 306 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: a local newspaper reported that Cleo took a train out 307 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: of town with her son. The paper said that it 308 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,120 Speaker 1: was in the interest of her health, that's all. It said. 309 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:48,960 Speaker 1: She had been previously institutionalized for having frequent outbursts, and 310 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: they seemed to begin with her last pregnancy. When she 311 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: was pregnant with Eugene. Doctor Bird had many friends, most 312 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: of them were fellow physicians. Monica Ballard says that doctor 313 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,440 Speaker 1: Bert told one friend that he worried about his young 314 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 1: son's future because of his mother's pregnancy. 315 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 4: Doctor Bert was very concerned about his son because when 316 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 4: his wife was pregnant with him, she had a very 317 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 4: difficult pregnancy. She had moments of mania where she had 318 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,119 Speaker 4: to be restrained. He was concerned because insanity did run 319 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 4: in his wife's family, and so when he saw these 320 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 4: predilections come forth in Eugene. He expressed to doctor Smoot 321 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:37,840 Speaker 4: his concern about the mental health of William Eugene. 322 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: But the trip she took with Eugene was likely for 323 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 1: a reason other than mental health concerns. That year, Cleo 324 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,520 Speaker 1: lost her eyesight and later she lost her hearing, and 325 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: those afflictions would plague her for the rest of her life, 326 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 1: which didn't help her mental illness. And then it turns 327 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 1: out that mental illness was present in many of c 328 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 1: Leo Palmer Birt's close relatives. According to doctor Bird, Patricia 329 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: Childs did extensive research on this part of Cleo's family, 330 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:10,959 Speaker 1: the family tree she's part of. 331 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 5: I have this radily stack of stuff here that I 332 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 5: had all spread out like a deck of cards on 333 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 5: the table before me. 334 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,760 Speaker 1: She found information on Cleo's father, Eugene's maternal grandfather. 335 00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,880 Speaker 5: Just a second, I have a piece of paper here. 336 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,959 Speaker 5: I went to a census and I was actually able 337 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 5: to track the family through the census, and it kept 338 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:38,640 Speaker 5: showing this individual as a This was the Silas Boone Palmer, 339 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 5: who was said to have some difficulties. 340 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:48,239 Speaker 1: Psychiatrists had labeled Silas Boone Palmer as legally insane, and 341 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: he was admitted to a mental health facility in Georgia, 342 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 1: where her family was from. After Silas was released. Leo's 343 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,119 Speaker 1: father had to have a guardian for three years. 344 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 5: Yes, he was and of sanitarium for a couple of years. 345 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 5: Someone had taken over his farming, so that looked like 346 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 5: a likely clue. That's something wonderful you can do when 347 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,119 Speaker 5: you're working through the records, when you can find something 348 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 5: tangible that way. I'm sure you do that a lot. 349 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,760 Speaker 1: Leo's brother had also been committed, but then he died 350 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:22,679 Speaker 1: at the age of twenty. I don't know why. She 351 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: had another sister who was described as an invalid, and 352 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: at least three cousins with epilepsy, which I've mentioned several 353 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: times was considered a mental illness. So mental health issues 354 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: were actually relatively common on Eugene Bert's mother's side. But 355 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: it didn't stop there. Doctor Bert admitted to mental illness 356 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,160 Speaker 1: on his side of the family too. His grandfather suffered 357 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: from what the doctors called violent herooxysms, which essentially means 358 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: that he had emotional outbursts. The doctor wrote in his 359 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 1: report that doctor Bert's grandfather quote gradually went down into 360 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: stupidity and died. Doctor Burt also had numerous cousins with epilepsy. 361 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,520 Speaker 1: At least that was a diagnosis in the mid eighteen hundreds. 362 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: Many of these people that were talking about are men, 363 00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: but for Cleo Bert, a woman, the diagnosis might not 364 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: have been particularly objective. 365 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 4: Victorian women were, you know, oh my god, they were 366 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,960 Speaker 4: so straight laced and literally buttoned up, cinched up tight 367 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 4: to the point where they suffered from hysteria mainly because 368 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,919 Speaker 4: they couldn't breathe because of the corsets. They were so 369 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 4: bound up under rigorous fashion requirements that they could not 370 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 4: catch their breaths, so they were said to be suffering 371 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 4: from hysteria, and they were given smelling salts. You know, 372 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 4: the whole Victorian sanitarium sanatorium sort of arrangement, where there 373 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 4: was this theory that if the exterior surroundings are calm 374 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,800 Speaker 4: and pleasant to experience, and then your insides will be 375 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 4: calm and pleasant as well. 376 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: And then you would finally be pleasant and you would 377 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: behave normally. 378 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 4: And that's why so many of the asylums and sanitariums 379 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 4: and sanatoriums where these places where people would take the 380 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 4: family not to go inside mind you, but to enjoy 381 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,120 Speaker 4: the grounds and go and see the swans of the lake, 382 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 4: and feed the ducks and have picnics on the grounds 383 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 4: of the asylum. 384 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,119 Speaker 1: We know that mental illness ran throughout the family of 385 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: Eugene's mother, Cleo Palmer. Julian Norton is related to Cleo, 386 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: and she says that she hasn't been at all surprise 387 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: to learn about the depth of the history of mental 388 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 1: health struggles in her own family. 389 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 6: I do know that there is in every family, not 390 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:04,760 Speaker 6: just mine, some mental illness, some psychotic breaks that happen. 391 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: Later, Julie will talk about her own sister struggle with 392 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: a different issue, one that will need to talk about 393 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: with this case, schizophrenia. So Eugene Bird's mental health issues 394 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: were muddled and unclear. There was certainly a family history 395 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: of mental illness, but with Eugene the issues were covered 396 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 1: up if he had them at all. Still, clues from 397 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: his past might tell us something, and they might also 398 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:49,640 Speaker 1: point us towards what would happen with him in the future. 399 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: Monica Ballard says that Eugene was certainly a very troubled child. 400 00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: He stole, he lied, that happens I did both of 401 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,080 Speaker 1: them those things when I was a kid, not a lot, 402 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 1: but I learned my lesson eventually. When Eugene was eight, 403 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: he stole a neighbor's purse. When he finally confessed, he 404 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,160 Speaker 1: said he wanted the coins inside. He planned to take 405 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 1: them and put them under a rock in the backyard, 406 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: which would cause them to rot and turn to gold. 407 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: It's hard to know how serious that incident was, but 408 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: doctor Smoot the family friend in Eugene's father both shamed 409 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: the boy, trying to scare him into never stealing again. 410 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 1: But the tactic didn't work, and soon Eugene began showing 411 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: more disturbing behavior. The biggest and most disturbing incident happened 412 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: later that same year. 413 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:47,200 Speaker 4: He killed his brother Roscoe's rabbit, drove a twenty penny 414 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 4: nail through its midsection. Doctor Bert and doctor Smoot found 415 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 4: the rabbit in the backyard, and Eugene OneD up to 416 00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 4: it and said, oh, yeah, I want to be a 417 00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 4: doctor like my father, and I wanted to cut it 418 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 4: open and see how it worked. 419 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: Eugene was just eight, so clearly there's a lot to 420 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 1: talk about with that incident. It's violent and shocking and upsetting, 421 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: and it traumatized Roscoe and worried his parents. But at 422 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,680 Speaker 1: the same time, Eugene didn't deny it. He wasn't mad 423 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: at Roscoe, and he didn't do it out of revenge. 424 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: He said he did it out of curiosity. Patricia Charles 425 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: wonders if Eugene Burt as a teenager was actually not 426 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: mentally ill, what if he should have had a different diagnosis. 427 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 5: He was a very unusual fifteen year old, because he 428 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 5: was a very unusual young man. I think today we 429 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,560 Speaker 5: might use the word sociopath or a psychopath. Something like 430 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,840 Speaker 5: that would have the possibility of bringing up an excitement 431 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 5: or an interest in him that would go with some 432 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,240 Speaker 5: of the descriptions that people gave of his childhood proclivities, 433 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 5: which you call them. Really, he seemed to fixate on 434 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 5: things in an odd kind of way. 435 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: Eugene killed Roscoe's rabbit just a few years before the 436 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: term psychopath was coined in Germany in the eighteen eighties. 437 00:29:16,040 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: Psychopathy comes from the Greek roots meaning suffering soul, which 438 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 1: is interesting because it seems like those who actually suffer 439 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: the most are the people in the psychopath's orbit. Of course, 440 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: the person with psychopathy might have their own internal struggles, 441 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: or maybe not so. Did Eugene's act of murdering a 442 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: rabbit in such a ghastly way mean he was destined 443 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: to kill people? We hear often how fledgling serial killers 444 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:49,840 Speaker 1: begin testing murder on animals. Perhaps Eugene Burt wasn't mentally ill, 445 00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: or perhaps he also wasn't someone with psychopathy. A few 446 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 1: of the folks I spoke with suspect that Eugene had 447 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: seen his father, the city physic pysician, at work with 448 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,720 Speaker 1: dead bodies. Perhaps he had just become disaffected by death 449 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: and curious about it, as his father was. Doctor Christine 450 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: Montrose is an associate professor of psychiatry at Brown University. 451 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 1: She's also an inpatient psychiatrist who performs forensic psychiatric examinations. 452 00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: I asked her about red flags in childhood. 453 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 9: There are a collection of behaviors in childhood that can 454 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 9: raise a flag of concern for what we think of 455 00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 9: as sociopathy and an adult. So you know, when we 456 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,000 Speaker 9: do forensic evaluations, there are some courts for which you 457 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 9: would ask questions of the descendants. What kind of questions 458 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 9: so things like did you steal from people? Did you 459 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 9: steal from people? Behind their back, or did you take 460 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 9: things from people directly? Did you ever set fires intending 461 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,600 Speaker 9: to cause damage? Did you get school a lot before 462 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 9: the age of thirteen? Did you run away from home 463 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 9: more than a couple times? But you know, before the 464 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,600 Speaker 9: age of thirteen? How much trouble did you and your 465 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 9: friends get into? Did you were you physically violent? Did 466 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 9: you ever use a weapon to hurt someone? Were you 467 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 9: ever physically or sexually cruel to someone else? 468 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: What about hurting animals? 469 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 9: Cruelty to animals is one of those questions that raises 470 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 9: a flag. I think when you think about children and 471 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:38,120 Speaker 9: the ability of a child to calm an animal or 472 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 9: maybe even take pleasure in harming an animal, that's a 473 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 9: flag for concern. 474 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: But it's likely a combination of these actions, maybe not 475 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 1: just one. 476 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 9: Right, There have been studies that indicate that children who 477 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 9: demonstrate a collection of these kinds of behaviors can be 478 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 9: at greater risk of developing sociopathy later in life. 479 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: Eugene Birt had exhibited I had quite a few of 480 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 1: the behavior's bad choices on doctor Montrose's list. He had stolen, 481 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: he had lied, and he was cruel to animals or 482 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: at least one animal that we know of, and as 483 00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: he grew older, Eugene never quite seemed to get it together, 484 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: and he had trouble holding down a job. By eighteen 485 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: eighty eight, his brothers Monty and Roscoe were married with 486 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: children and they had several different businesses. When Roscoe got married, 487 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: the blurb in the paper read, mister Bert is one 488 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 1: of our most active and progressive young businessmen. But Eugene, 489 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: who was the youngest, never seemed to have that kind 490 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: of ambition. And then something happened. Eugene met a young 491 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: woman who loved him and she saw the good in him. 492 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 1: Her name was Anna Powers. Her family called her Annie, 493 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: and she wanted to settle down and have children with Eugene. 494 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: Annie and Eugene lived in Austin on Seventh Street and Brazos, 495 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,800 Speaker 1: not far from her mother, Elizabeth Powers, as well as 496 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: her sister, Agnes. Elizabeth was originally from Waterford, Ireland, and 497 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,440 Speaker 1: they were a traditional Irish Catholic family. Agnes and Annie 498 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 1: were seven years apart, but they were very close and 499 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: later in life, Annie's sister and her mother would become 500 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: her strongest advocates. Annie Powers was four months older than 501 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: Eugene and he swept her off her feet. 502 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 6: It's hard to tell how they met exactly, but she 503 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:33,479 Speaker 6: was in the right place at the right time. 504 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: On December fourteenth, eighteen ninety one, Annie Powers married William 505 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: Eugene Burt as was custom The local paper wrote a 506 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,959 Speaker 1: blurb about it. It read, the wedding was a quiet affair, 507 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,160 Speaker 1: only the family of both parties being present. After partaking 508 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 1: of an elegant supper prepared by mister J. B. Bilinson, 509 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: the happy couple left on the evening train for New Orleans. 510 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: And he didn't seem to mind that Eugene had trouble 511 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: keeping a job, maybe because she didn't have trouble keeping 512 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: a job. 513 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 6: It looks like Bert's wife was a bookkeeper before they married, 514 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 6: and perhaps while they were married, so she might have 515 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:17,280 Speaker 6: worked for the brothers. 516 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: So Eugene's fiance was working with his brothers, and soon 517 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,000 Speaker 1: so was he. But as you can imagine, Eugene's childhood 518 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: habits of lying and cheating and stealing didn't stop when 519 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: he became an adult. In fact, historian Monica Ballard says 520 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: they became more serious. 521 00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 4: His brothers gave him every break possible, trying to set 522 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,960 Speaker 4: him up in his own business as with a cigar 523 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 4: store in New Orleans, and he pissed the money away. 524 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 4: What happened, He never even made it to New Orleans. 525 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,279 Speaker 4: He ended up in East Texas, writing to them saying, oh, 526 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 4: I got sick and I need more money, and oo 527 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 4: is that and the other, and they finally just said, 528 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,480 Speaker 4: you know what, come back to Austin. Come back. We'll 529 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 4: give you a job in the shoes tour. 530 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: I'm assuming this was another big mistake. 531 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 4: He would give merchandise away to people and he'd say, 532 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:12,480 Speaker 4: take the shoes for a day and I'll find you. 533 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 4: If you like the shoes, you can give me the 534 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 4: money for them. And he would go and find them 535 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 4: and say, yeah, we like the shoes, and he collect 536 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,360 Speaker 4: the money. And then you go back and tell his brothers, no, 537 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 4: they didn't like the shoes and they're not going to 538 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 4: give you the money. 539 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 1: So Eugene Burt was a thief and he wasn't above 540 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,320 Speaker 1: stealing from his own brothers. 541 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 6: You've got successful brothers, you have an unsuccessful brother. Their 542 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 6: sibling competition no matter what you say. You have a 543 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,799 Speaker 6: mother that's going through apparently mental illness, and he's an 544 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:42,839 Speaker 6: angry human being. 545 00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,400 Speaker 1: Eugene was a terrible businessman, and he seemed like an angry, 546 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:52,680 Speaker 1: bitter jerk who valued nothing and no one but himself. 547 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 1: But that's not quite true, because even though Eugene might 548 00:35:56,719 --> 00:36:00,239 Speaker 1: have been a failure at just about everything, he seem 549 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: to be a good husband and a good father. The 550 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: couple had been married for just two years when they 551 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: had their first daughter, Lucille, in eighteen ninety three. Then 552 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,840 Speaker 1: two years later Eleanor came along. Neighbors said that Eugene 553 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: doted on the two little girls. He helped Annie around 554 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: the house. He even cooked dinners for them, which was 555 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,839 Speaker 1: really unheard of in the eighteen hundreds. So why did 556 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,439 Speaker 1: things go so wrong for Eugene Burt that I'm now 557 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: spending an entire season talking about the lives of his victims? 558 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 1: Because in eighteen ninety six, Eugene Burt would make a 559 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 1: terrible decision, the last terrible decision in a long series 560 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 1: of terrible decisions. The scene that he'd go on to 561 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: create inside his home one summer night wasn't exactly unique 562 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,800 Speaker 1: to him. More than a decade earlier, when he joined 563 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 1: his father in the home of one of the servant 564 00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: girl annihilator victims. Eugene Burt had seen blood, he had 565 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,759 Speaker 1: smelled a corpse, and he had felt the blade of 566 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 1: a murder weapon. It was a moment he would never forget. 567 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,880 Speaker 5: Think about this. Then ten years go by and this is, 568 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 5: you know, seething and percolating in him. Maybe it just 569 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 5: becomes too much. 570 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: So could this violent scene from Eugene's past, a shocking 571 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,080 Speaker 1: image of a lobotomized victim hacked to death with an 572 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,560 Speaker 1: axe on Christmas Eve? Could it have become etched in 573 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:35,080 Speaker 1: his memory permanently? And could that image compel Eugene Bert 574 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:40,200 Speaker 1: to kill his relative. Julie Norton says she's certain that 575 00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 1: Eugene Bert is not the first murderer in her family. 576 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 6: It's not surprising. You've all got these stories in our family. 577 00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,320 Speaker 6: You've all got good stories and an't got bad stories. 578 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,280 Speaker 6: My family's been in this country long enough. Named something 579 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 6: bad that happened, they were part of that. You have 580 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,880 Speaker 6: to acknowledge it. It's all there. 581 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 1: But knows that not everyone has this kind of history 582 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 1: in their own families. Eugene Bird had a troubling childhood 583 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 1: and an even more troubling adulthood, and yet he could 584 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: have righted his ship. It's too bad for everyone that 585 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: he chose to sink it soon. People close to him 586 00:38:18,239 --> 00:38:23,239 Speaker 1: would die, some by his hand, some not. But who, 587 00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:40,520 Speaker 1: and maybe even more importantly, why on this season of 588 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: tenfold war wicked on exactly right? 589 00:38:44,040 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 10: I mean, it's it's such a bizarre and traumatic set 590 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,040 Speaker 10: of facts for a fifteen year old to experience, and 591 00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:52,760 Speaker 10: the knowledge of all the other murders that were taking place, 592 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,719 Speaker 10: it certainly could influence someone who is already predisposed to 593 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 10: an unbalanced situation. 594 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 6: When I look at a criminal, I am offended by 595 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 6: that person, But I also feel like there is some cause, 596 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 6: something that drove him crazy. 597 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 4: What was it? 598 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,600 Speaker 10: The only person that said he was acting strangely on 599 00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,680 Speaker 10: that day of the murders was his housekeeper, and she 600 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 10: mentioned that he was frantic and walking quickly. 601 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 4: She expressed to her mother that Eugene's behavior was getting 602 00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:24,959 Speaker 4: a little odd that she would wake up to find 603 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,280 Speaker 4: him standing over her watching her sleep. 604 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,759 Speaker 1: If you love a good real ghost story, my new 605 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,560 Speaker 1: audiobook original The Ghost Club is available for pre order 606 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 1: now wherever audiobooks are sold. I can't wait to tell 607 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,040 Speaker 1: you the real story about the world's most famous ghost hunter, 608 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,800 Speaker 1: who was the head of the world's most famous ghost club, 609 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: and how he investigated England's most famous haunted house. Please 610 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: also check out my new book All That Is Wicked. 611 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: This has been an exactly right Tenfold War. Media production 612 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 1: producers Jason Whaling, Alexis Mrosi and Natalie Rinn. Editors Jason Whaling, 613 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: David Fabello and Kate Winkler Dawson researcher Kate Winkler Dawson, 614 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:20,520 Speaker 1: sound designer Eric Friend, composer Curtis Heath, artwork by Nick Toga. 615 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:26,440 Speaker 1: Executive producers Georgia Hartstark, Karen Kilgarriff and Daniel Kramer. Follow 616 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: us on Instagram and Facebook at tenfold war Wicked and 617 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: on Twitter at tenfold War. And If you know of 618 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: a historical crime that could use some attention, especially if 619 00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 1: it happened in your family, email us at info at 620 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:48,280 Speaker 1: Tenfoldwarwicked dot com.