1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: M beautiful. If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. 2 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: You're listening to Software Up Radio, Special Operations, military news 3 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: and straight talk with the guys in the community. Hello, everyone, 4 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: welcome back to Software Radio, Software Radio on Time on Target. 5 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: I am your host this afternoon, Steve Balsari joining us. 6 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: We have a great special guest with us, Mike Durant, 7 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: who most of you would remember from the book and 8 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: the film black Hawk Down. Was the helicopter pilot which 9 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: was the black Hawk Down that everything was based upon. Mike, uh, 10 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: twenty two years in the military. He's now retired from 11 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,679 Speaker 1: the military and he's running for office. He's running for 12 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: the Senate and we're gonna talk to him about that. 13 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 1: But before we go any further, we want to just 14 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: welcome him to the podcast. Mike, thank you very much 15 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: for taking the time to speak with us this afternoon. 16 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. Well, thank you. It's great to 17 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: be on. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about 18 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: your military career. I know you said you grew up 19 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: up north, Um, so, uh, when'd you grow up and 20 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: what made you decide to join the military. Well, first, 21 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: your accent is still a little bit more dominant than 22 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: mine is. I will say that I grew up in 23 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: New Hampshire, Northern New Hampshire, actually about halfway between Montreal 24 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: and Boston. So you know, the big, big debate in 25 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: my him town, pretty small paper mill town, was whether 26 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: you're a Montreal Canadians fan or a Boston Bruins fan. 27 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, I think I I probably did 28 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: a little of both, but today I would characterize myself 29 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 1: as a Bruins fan, Red Sox fan, Patriots fan. So 30 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: you know that's where my allegiance ended up. Um, but 31 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: I Uh, I joined the military when I was eighteen. 32 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to fly. I had gotten to know, uh 33 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: a gentleman who was a warrant officer flying for the 34 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: New Hampshire National Guard. He had his own private business 35 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: where he owned some aircraft, and I got to go 36 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: flying with him one day. And you know, anybody's ever 37 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: been in a helicopter your first helicopter ride is I 38 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: don't know anyone that's not just in awe of it. 39 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: You know, it's just kind of crazy. Did like a 40 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: humming bird, right, I guess is the sensation that you 41 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 1: think you have. And and I'm sitting there looking at him, 42 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: and I'm thinking, this is a job, I could do 43 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: this and get paid to do this, that that this 44 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: is for me. So he sent me on that course 45 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 1: and I found out later he actually had done that 46 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: with several teenagers that he knew. And I don't know 47 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: how many of us ever made it all the way 48 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: through to flight school, but that was my inspiration to 49 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: join the military. Yeah, it's funny you talk about the 50 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: first time in helicopter. My my first helicopter ride, I 51 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: didn't land in it. We we did a helicopter jump 52 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: right after jump school. So yeah, that was what a 53 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: trip that is. And uh, well, I'm a big fan 54 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: of staying on board the aircraft unless it's under extreme circumstances. 55 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: But uh, you know, I've certainly done enough parrot jumps 56 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: to know it's a pretty cool. Yeah. So you know, 57 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: you went to Fort Rucker and and you were probably 58 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: a Huey pilot to start off. Well, you know, black 59 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: Hawks were brand new, and I did pretty well in 60 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: school and I got the only black Hawks loot in 61 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: the class, so I went straight to the black Hawk 62 00:03:57,760 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: transition and uh, you know, again, it's sort of the 63 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: same feeling I got in the black Hawk after going 64 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: through the training in a Huey in flight school, and 65 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: it seemed like flying a space shuttle. I mean, it's 66 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: you know, much more powerful, a lot more gadgets and 67 00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 1: things in the cockpit, and and when you're fairly new 68 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: to flying, getting into a machine like that was just incredible. Uh. 69 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: And then I went to Korea for my first assignment 70 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: and they didn't have black Hawks yet, so I got 71 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: back into the Huey's for a few months, and then 72 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: we got a whole ship and a brand new black 73 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: Hawks about four months after I got there. What were 74 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: you in the second I d up there in Korea, 75 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: I flew METAVAC, which you know, initially I didn't think 76 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: that was gonna be a great assignment, but in the end, 77 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: as a pilot, it's a It's a fantastic assignment because 78 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: you're by yourself a lot of times, and you forced 79 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: you to make decisions to deal with weather, and you know, 80 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 1: you're you're going out on emergency calls and we were 81 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 1: we would track the number of missions that you flew 82 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: uh in that unit, and I ended up leaving there 83 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: with a hundred and fifty one actual met of act missions, 84 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: which you know when when you survive, you know, I'll 85 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: call them real world they are you know, sometimes it's 86 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: not a critical situation, but a lot of times it was. 87 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: And uh, you know somebody who's that young. I mean 88 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: I was twenty two years old as pilot and command 89 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: making those decisions. It's a great way to either get 90 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,840 Speaker 1: really good or in your flying career really fast. And 91 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: uh I got I got a lot better in a 92 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: in a very short period of time. Yeah. I would 93 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: imagine that that flying that many real world missions. Yeah, 94 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: just fantastic. But you know, it's one of those things 95 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: that if you'd asked me, I probably wouldn't have selected 96 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 1: going there because, you know, to me, flying and the 97 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: division would have been you know, formation flights and and 98 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 1: supporting the ground ground force units. But in the end, 99 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: I think from a gaining experienced perspective, it was a 100 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: really good first assignment. That's awesome. How did you end 101 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: up with one sixty, Well, it's I first heard about 102 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 1: the one six in Korea, and at the time, like 103 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: a lot of other special offs units, you know, people 104 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: kind of knew they existed, but there wasn't a lot 105 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: in the in the public domain. Uh, it was mostly 106 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: you know, just bar talk about, hey, there's this unit 107 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: that was stood up to to support these other special units, 108 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: and they got really you know, cutting edge technology and 109 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: their aircraft, and they got you know, they're they're operating 110 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: with some of the most elite units in the world. 111 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: And I'd read a lot of Tom Clancy books. I mean, 112 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: I'll just be perfectly honest, and that that's probably what 113 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: hooked me. You know, I mean to be uh, you know, 114 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,160 Speaker 1: like a Jack Ryan type or just you know it 115 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: work with people like that. I thought, you know, that's 116 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: got to be next level. And it really was. I mean, 117 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,520 Speaker 1: it wasn't a disappointment. So when I got my orders 118 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 1: to leave Korea and go to Fort Campbell, I thought, well, 119 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,480 Speaker 1: this is perfect. I'll just show up there, I'll sign in, 120 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: I'll go talk to the one and see if they'll 121 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: take me. I didn't realize is that the hundred first 122 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: and or two distinct organizations, and I had signed in 123 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: the hundred first, and at that point I was kind 124 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: of committed to two years in the hundred first, which 125 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 1: is again great experience that it was good for me. 126 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: It worked out better in the end because I got 127 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,000 Speaker 1: more flight time, I got more night vision goggle time. 128 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: I went to the instructor pilot course while I was 129 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: in the hundred first so when I two years later 130 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: was able to actually assess for the one, I was 131 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: in a from aviation maturity level, much much better prepared. Excellent. Yeah, 132 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: a quick story about the we We used to do 133 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: a lot of exercises with the one sixtieth in the 134 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: range of regiment and uh, we were doing a big 135 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: one and then we had a night off and you know, 136 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: we were just kind of chilling out and the major 137 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: in charge of the unit from the I can't remember 138 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: his name now, but I still have the coin he gave. 139 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: So he him up to me and he was like, Hey, 140 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 1: we're going on a check ride. We got some new 141 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,480 Speaker 1: envy g's. You want to go do some flying in 142 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: a little bird. So I'm like sure. So you know 143 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: when you're young, Hey, you can't get enough of that, right. 144 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: So I'm sitting It was just me and the pilots. 145 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: So I'm sitting outside on the little bird. They gave 146 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 1: me a helmet with the envy gs and he's like, 147 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: leave them up. So it was pitch black and we're 148 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: zipping along. I can't see a blessed thing, you know, 149 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: pitch start and then so we're flying along and I 150 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 1: could feel dampness. So he's like, can you see anything? 151 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,480 Speaker 1: Because I'm talking to him on the I said, I 152 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: can't see a thing. He's like, flipped down your envy 153 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: g's And then both pilots were staring at me because 154 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: I literally jumped out of my skin. We're about maybe 155 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: four fifteen inches over a river and we were just 156 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: zipping along the river and when I put the MVS 157 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: down here, of course, your first thought is we're gonna 158 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: crash the wall. And they were both laughing and they 159 00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: were like, what do you think? And I was like, man, 160 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: you can really see good in these And that was 161 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 1: the you know that that next generation, and you know, 162 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: we zipped around all night. We had an absolute blast 163 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: and that's you know, we flew with them quite a 164 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: few times. But I'll always remember that because that was 165 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:23,560 Speaker 1: a kind of like a personal ride for me in 166 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: a little bird and that's uh, that's flying at the 167 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: edge right there. Yeah, for sure, So can can you 168 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,160 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's difficult to talk about, but 169 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: you know the mission that you were shot down, and 170 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: can you relay some of that to our listen. Sure, 171 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: you know, one thing I like to point out, which 172 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 1: I think is true of many military organizations in general, 173 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: but certainly soft units, is that when when the mission 174 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: goes well, it gets buried in in some arcives somewhere 175 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: and no one ever knows about it. And there are 176 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: thousands of missions that have gone well, and it's only 177 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 1: the ones where you know, something doesn't go exactly the 178 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: way it was supposed to go, and the media gets 179 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: involved that you know, suddenly you know, everybody knows about it. 180 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: And you know, you could you could say that about 181 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:19,920 Speaker 1: Desert One. You could say that about and I would 182 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: argue Smalley, I personally believe it was a tactical success. 183 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: It was a political failure. Uh. You know, the lost 184 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: bird in the in the compound in Pakistan, with the 185 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 1: bin laden rate. I mean, those are things that happened 186 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 1: when people were operating at the very edge of the envelope. 187 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, when you operate at the edge 188 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: of the envelope for night after night after night, like 189 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 1: like our brothers have been doing or still doing really 190 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 1: in Iraq and we're doing in Afghanistan. You know, for 191 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 1: two decades, I mean, every now and then something's gonna 192 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: go wrong. And and you know, that's what I would 193 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,679 Speaker 1: say about Somalia. You know, I was involved in just 194 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: cause went really well. The incredibly complex mission and when 195 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: we think about the joint exercises that we would do, 196 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: airfield seizures, all that stuff. I mean, Panama was a 197 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: textbook example of all of that happening simultaneously. Uh, and 198 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: it went almost without a hitch. I mean, there were 199 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,240 Speaker 1: a few things that happened, you know, we did, uh 200 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: the aircraft with Curtain News on it got crashed in 201 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: the in the street, but in the end he got 202 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 1: out and and uh, you know, everything went as planned. 203 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: So the point of all that is there's so much 204 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: flawless execution that occurs that never gets talked about, and 205 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: unfortunately the high profile things where maybe it didn't go 206 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: quite as well as we wanted to do, get talked 207 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 1: about it. And that's kind of the way I see Somalia. Uh. 208 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 1: You know, we have done six missions up to that point, 209 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: all six of those have gone really well. Three day, 210 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: three night, we had captured close to thirty guys. I 211 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: mean today we call them terrorists. At the time, they 212 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: weren't called terrorists. They were called you know, clan leadership. 213 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: They were part of hobber Getter clan that we were 214 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:04,679 Speaker 1: trying to basically neutralize. You know, they were the ones 215 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: that were causing the problems in country. And uh, the 216 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: the leader, Mohammad far Aded was the ultimate prize. We 217 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 1: had captured the number two guy, guy named Osman Otto, 218 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: on a day mission not long before October three. So 219 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: I mean, we're you know, the wheels are turning here. 220 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 1: We're really doing well. We had lost any birds, no people, 221 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: few injuries, but that's gonna happen in this kind of thing. 222 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: And then October three rolls around, and you know, I 223 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: was a flight leader, so I'm right in the jock 224 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: when the decision is getting made about this. It's not 225 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: my decision, but I'm there, and and we were aware 226 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: of the risks, and you know I always point, at 227 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: least from my air side. It's in the worst part 228 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: of town, place called the Black Sea, where all the 229 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: bad guys hang out. It's a daytime operation. We know, 230 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,679 Speaker 1: you know, we can't use a lot of our advantage 231 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: that we have with our night vision gear and everything 232 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: in a day daytime op. There's no landing zones, so 233 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: we can't we can't land the heloes. We got a 234 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: faster rope end, we've got an extract by vehicle. And 235 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: it's the seventh time we've done one of these in 236 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: the same city. So you you know, anyone who's been 237 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: in the military knows it's like sports, right. You can't 238 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 1: run the football seven times in a row up the middle. 239 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: You know, at the five yard line, the defense is 240 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: going to start to adapt, and that's what you know. 241 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: Military adversaries do the same thing. So I think all 242 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: those things combined elevated the risk on this one for sure. 243 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: But I can say walking out of that operations center, 244 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:33,839 Speaker 1: I didn't disagree with the decision to go. I mean, 245 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: the risk factors were up. I always say I felt 246 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:41,040 Speaker 1: comfortable enough. Um, you know, I've also thought over the years, 247 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: if you're totally comfortable going in to the bad guy's 248 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: backyard and punching them in the face, then maybe you've 249 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: been doing it too long because you should be, you know, 250 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: not totally comfortable this. You know they're they're shooting at you, 251 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: you know, so, but you know, we all operated under 252 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: the big sky. A little bullet theory kind of put 253 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: that off to the side and just do our jobs. 254 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 1: But you know, going in there, we kind of knew 255 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,520 Speaker 1: this was not not going to be quite as straightforward 256 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: as all the others. And and you know, the first 257 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: real indication of that was the first aircraft shotdown. That 258 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: was Super six one, Cliff Walcott Donovan Briley's aircraft. They 259 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: had uh a few Delta operators on board, uh somewhere 260 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: injured badly, some not so badly. Crew chiefs survived, but donno, uh, 261 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 1: Donovan and Cliff were killed when the aircraft hit the ground. 262 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: And uh, you know at that point, of course, I 263 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: didn't know it. All I knew is they were they 264 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: went down, and we called in the search and rescue 265 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 1: bird it went in. We knew that wasn't a good idea. 266 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: We had talked about it a few days prior. We 267 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: had actually requested a tank because everything was within about 268 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: two miles of the airfield. So in our minds, if 269 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: we use a tank for search and rescue, seems unorthodox. 270 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: But when you really look at the tacticle situation, using 271 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: a tank is that is the is very elegant solution 272 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: because it's not gonna be harmed by small arms. Fire. 273 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: It can move pretty quickly through the streets. You know. 274 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,640 Speaker 1: It's it's it's the perfect vehicle. So we had asked 275 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: for that, it had been turned, it had been denied. 276 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: So what is the commander supposed to do? Right? I mean, 277 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: you you're forced to use the things you're you're left, 278 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 1: uh in your kit bag. So we set the search 279 00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:25,880 Speaker 1: and rescue bird in and it got shot down. Luckily 280 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: not it didn't crash, but limped its way back to 281 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: the airfield. Uh. We still have people hanging on the 282 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: ropes when that aircraft got hit. Um, but they all 283 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: did what they were supposed to do, kept the aircraft 284 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: in in position and got everybody on the ground. That 285 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: search and rescue team got to six one site. In 286 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: the meantime, commander calls me and asked me to come 287 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:50,560 Speaker 1: replace six one over the target. So we roll in 288 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: and we had already gone into target because I had 289 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,080 Speaker 1: twenty two rangers part of a blocking force that we're 290 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: on my bird, and we put them in in one 291 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 1: of the corners around on the perimeter, and so we're 292 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: we just have the crew on board and we're gonna 293 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: go with the mini guns and try to get in 294 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: close and provide uh close in fire support while things 295 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: get wrapped up on the ground and the ground convoy 296 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 1: links up with the assault force and then gets everybody 297 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: out of there. Well, you know, things that heated up 298 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: quite a bit. I mean, you've already had two black 299 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: Hawks shotdown and uh, I mean we didn't make it 300 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: around the target probably four times, and we got hit 301 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,960 Speaker 1: by an RPG. Uh. You know, it's still daytime, so 302 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 1: you know, I always tell people it wasn't like the 303 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,400 Speaker 1: beach scene in Saving Private Ryan, where there's flak everywhere. 304 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: You know, just it's hard to see tracers in the 305 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 1: bright in the bright sunlight and RPGs unless you see 306 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: the launch. There's not really much of a contrail, you know, 307 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: so you might see it. You're gonna see it explode 308 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 1: if it explodes near you. But a lot of times 309 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: they're just you know, they're going through there and you 310 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,760 Speaker 1: don't even know they're there. Well, this one hit us 311 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: in the tail. It blew the tail roader completely apart. 312 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: Are disintegrated, and uh, you know, you don't have to 313 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 1: be a helicopter expert to know that's probably not a 314 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: good thing. It was. It was the worst profile you 315 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: could be in low altitude, low air speed. Uh, no 316 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: tail rotor, and the only thing you can do is 317 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: shut the engines off. So we did, which is not 318 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 1: a good thing either, and uh we crashed. Uh. I 319 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:27,359 Speaker 1: was flying. Uh uh this sort of a mix between 320 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,239 Speaker 1: flying and surviving because you know, this thing is not 321 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: flying like a regular helicopter at this point. It's spinning 322 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,199 Speaker 1: out of control and all I was trying to do 323 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: is keep it from flipping upside down, which I somehow 324 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: managed to do. But I never saw the ground coming. 325 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: So I mean we hit really hard. I mean so hard. 326 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:45,919 Speaker 1: You know, you've probably seen the pilot seats in the 327 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: black Hawk. They have crash attenuation and basically big shock absorbers. 328 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: Those all went all the way to the bottom and 329 00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 1: then broke off. My femur broken two on the way down. 330 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 1: My vertebrae were crushed in the you know from the 331 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 1: vertical g forces. Crew chiefs or hurt worse than that. 332 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: My copilot, Ray Frank, was injured similar to my injuries. 333 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: And uh, and then the aircraft did what it was 334 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:13,480 Speaker 1: supposed to do, which is uh, the engines shut off 335 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: because the fuel lines all broke away as designed. You know, 336 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: one of the things about modern technologies. We we learned 337 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 1: a lot from experiences like Vietnam and since and making 338 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: these machines better, more survivable, and and it all worked 339 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: as advertised. That the fuel lines broke off in the 340 00:18:30,119 --> 00:18:32,439 Speaker 1: self seal, so I didn't leak, there was no fire, 341 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: And when I woke up, it's like someone had shut 342 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,920 Speaker 1: the aircraft down. I mean, it's it's just sitting there. 343 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: Blades are stationary, but I'm obviously, you know, I know 344 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: something's really wrong here. I'm kind of sitting in a hole. 345 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: There's debris through the windshield. I get rid of that, 346 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: and I had my MP five in the cockpit and 347 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: I picked it up, and you know, there's not much 348 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: else you can do. You just just decide to, you know, 349 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: fight it out the best you can. And at that time, 350 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: most grageous men I've ever known, Randy Sugar and Gary 351 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 1: Gordon arrived at the side of the cockpit. I didn't 352 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 1: I didn't see where they came from. I had no 353 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,440 Speaker 1: idea how they got there. But all of a sudden 354 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: they're standing there. And they were not personal friends, but 355 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: I didn't know them from you know, we've been together 356 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: on test MOR's Ranger now for a couple of months 357 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,880 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, my mind, wow, this is they're 358 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: already here. I don't know how in the world has happened. 359 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:26,479 Speaker 1: But good to see you guys, you know. And they 360 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: weren't talking. They were you know, it's all mission at 361 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: this point for for those guys. And they got me 362 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: out of the aircraft, put me on the ground, gave 363 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: me my weapon, and uh went to try to defend 364 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: the site and find a way to get us out 365 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: of there. And uh, unfortunately we were surrounded and there 366 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: was there was probably hundreds of Somalis and uh, I 367 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: think the movie shows that scene fairly well. Actually outside 368 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: of it shows me shooting from the cockpit. I did 369 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: not shoot from the cockpit. I was about to, but 370 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: I never did, but did a lot of shooting on 371 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: the ground, and as did Randy and Gary. And then uh, 372 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: just I mean you're just outnumbered. I mean, there's nothing 373 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: you can do when you're up against that many enemy. 374 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: And uh, and then we got overrun. Yeah. I was 375 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: gonna ask you, you know, I've read the book, I've 376 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: seen the movie. I was gonna ask you how realistic 377 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 1: or close to the truth that was? You know what 378 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: I've always said it's accurate enough. Um, it's not perfect. 379 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:29,880 Speaker 1: There's you know, little things like this person did something 380 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 1: that actually another person did, but most of the things 381 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: in the movie are are fairly accurately portrayed. And then 382 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: after they you know, we're we're killed by the Somali crowd. 383 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: You were taken captive. I can't imagine what was going 384 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: through your mind at that point where the crushed fine 385 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: and a broken leg. It's not like you can eat 386 00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 1: any right. Uh. You know, I had gone to survival school, 387 00:21:01,920 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: as we spoke about earlier, and you know, we can't 388 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,480 Speaker 1: really get into what's taught there. But but at that 389 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: point I did make a decision in my head that 390 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: this is now survival. I mean, it's this fight is over. 391 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: I can't win this fight by myself. I was out 392 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: of ammunition. Uh, they're all over me, and now you 393 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: gotta do what they teach you to do to survive. 394 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: And and it worked. I mean, you know, I've been 395 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: back to the survival school. It's been a while now, 396 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 1: but they have it all on video and and and 397 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: I'm sure they still use some of it in the curriculum. Uh, 398 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 1: what they taught worked and you know, I'm not suggesting 399 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,800 Speaker 1: it would work in every situation, but it actually it worked. 400 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: Almost everything they taught me worked in mind, So I 401 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,639 Speaker 1: not only owe my life to Gary and Randy, but 402 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: to the you know, that training and the and the 403 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 1: instructors that provided that for me. Yeah, it's not a 404 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: fun school, but it's a great school. That's the way 405 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 1: when people ask me about Sear School, that's the only 406 00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: way to describe describe it. Yeah. I always said I 407 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: put it only second only to Flight School in terms 408 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:09,280 Speaker 1: of experiences that I've had in the military. Uh. And 409 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 1: you know, at the end, like you said, Man, I'm 410 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: glad that's over, But it was it was really really good. Yeah. 411 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: And what was it like for you when you were 412 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: finally released and now you're back with you know, the 413 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,760 Speaker 1: guys in the unit and the Delta guys, Delta guys. 414 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: It was it was somewhat surreal. You know. One of 415 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 1: the things they they do teach us, you know, be 416 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: very cautious about, you know, what you believe is happening 417 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: versus what's really happening. And don't you know, just just 418 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,639 Speaker 1: be cautious, I guess is the best way to characterize it. 419 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: And I think when I first realized that this is 420 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: real is when the Red Cross doctor showed up and 421 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,400 Speaker 1: he had morphine, you know, because it's been eleven days 422 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,000 Speaker 1: with those injuries, and I'm telling you it was it 423 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: was bad. Uh and uh that that made it all 424 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: go away, and uh when I went through the gates 425 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: of the compound, it was you know, I can't describe 426 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: it just And again, I didn't know about the losses 427 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: we took. I mean, I knew we took losses, but 428 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: I didn't know about how many there were, or the 429 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: horrific things that had happened in the aftermath. So, you know, 430 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 1: over the next few days, I had some major major 431 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: emotional events when you know, I found out Cliff and Donovan. 432 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: The only reason I knew that they were killed is 433 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: all the guys came over when I was in the 434 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: in the surgical unit there and I'm looking around, and 435 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: I said, where's Cliff and Donovan? And you know, they 436 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 1: basically broke down. The commander broke down a just a 437 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,440 Speaker 1: good guy, good heart, you know, tears in his eyes, 438 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: saying you know they were they were killed, and you know, 439 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 1: after everything else, you find out that it's even worse. 440 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 1: Than you thought. You know, it was, it was pretty rough. 441 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,879 Speaker 1: And then you know, with what happened to uh, to 442 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: the remains of my crew and Gary and Randy by 443 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 1: the crowd is something I found out even later, and 444 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,560 Speaker 1: something I still can't really get my head around how 445 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: people could be that in in human I suppose it's 446 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:20,719 Speaker 1: the right way to describe that. Yeah, I remember I 447 00:24:20,800 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: was in South America at the time, and we were 448 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 1: working with some of your other guys, and we were 449 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,679 Speaker 1: doing counter narcotic stuff and we started seeing all the 450 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,919 Speaker 1: newspapers with the pictures in there, and it was horrifying 451 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 1: and well, I may a lot of people angry. I 452 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: can tell you that, you know it's uh and and 453 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: you know, you know how we all feel about each 454 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: other when you see something like that done to your 455 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: your brothers in arms. I mean, that's uh, that's hard. 456 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: It's hard to see. So, um, you finished up twenty 457 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: two years in the in the military, and then so 458 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: now now you're you're moving on. I know you started 459 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: your own company, but now you're moving on and you're 460 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: running for office. What what what made you decide to 461 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: try this? Well? Is this is a series of things, really, Um, 462 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: I suppose it all started when President Biden won the election. 463 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: I don't think he's good for the country. Uh. You know, 464 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,920 Speaker 1: I don't care which side you're on to think that 465 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: that's the best that one of the parties can put forward. 466 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: That's pretty that's pretty disheartening. I mean, he is the 467 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: ultimate example of a career politician. I mean, he has 468 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: never lived in the real world. He doesn't understand the 469 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,320 Speaker 1: implications of his decisions. I mean, every single thing he's 470 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: done is wrong. And and you know, like many Americans, 471 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:03,640 Speaker 1: I've sat here and watched this happen. The real over 472 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: the top moment was Afghanistan. Uh. And there have been 473 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: other since. You know, the southern border UH, vaccine mandates, 474 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: you know, paying people who came through the border illegally 475 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: four d dollars apiece. That's the latest ridiculous idea that 476 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: I've read about lately. Uh. Just I mean, and so 477 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: I met this point in my business career where the 478 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: company's doing great. I got good people working for me, 479 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: I got good people above me on the board. I 480 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: was kind of planning to start phasing out now. Anyway, 481 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: our youngest is a senior in high school, transitioning ownership 482 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 1: to the employees actually through a program called an stop that. UH. 483 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: If if anyone is not familiar with that, you should 484 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 1: look it up. It's an amazing thing. Uh. And and 485 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: really really a win win for the for the founders 486 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: and for the employees. And so all that was underway anyway, 487 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: and then Richard Shelby's retiring. I mean, what what what 488 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: you want to do is take on uh an incumbent 489 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: senator you know that's been there for you know, multiple terms. 490 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: That's a tough win. But this is a vacancy, and 491 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: the candidates that were in the run are just more 492 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,399 Speaker 1: career politicians, and that is not what Alabama needs, and 493 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: that is not what the country needs. We've got to 494 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: have somebody that knows the difference between right and wrong, 495 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,959 Speaker 1: and career politicians really struggle with that. All they know 496 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,400 Speaker 1: is what's going to further their political careers. That's that's 497 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 1: the world they grew up in. That's what what drives 498 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: their thought process. Whereas you know, somebody like us that's 499 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: lived in the real world, we know what's right and wrong. 500 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: You know, for me, I basically have two resumes to 501 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,679 Speaker 1: their zero. You know that they've got a career politician resume, 502 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: which is zero when it comes to making the right decisions. 503 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: I got a military resume and I got a business 504 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: owner resume, both, so I know, you know how decisions 505 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: affect both of those uh constituents or or bases or 506 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 1: you know, part part of what I represent as a 507 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: senator from Alabama. So uh, it's winnable. I'm at the 508 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: right point in my life. Somebody's got to step up, 509 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 1: and I can't waste my shot. I mean, that's that's 510 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,240 Speaker 1: what got me in the race. And do you live 511 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,080 Speaker 1: in Huntsville though? Is that I do? Uh? In Huntsville 512 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: actually just became the largest city in Alabama. We Uh, 513 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:32,320 Speaker 1: we've been fortunate that, you know, great leadership here in 514 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: the area. Uh. They had a Brack committee that you know, 515 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 1: set us up for success. And each time there's been 516 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: a a brack and a realigning of you know, where 517 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: where organizations go. Uh, we've fared really well. And now 518 00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 1: the Space Force is coming here also, So I mean 519 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: we are set up for success here in North Alabama, 520 00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 1: but you know the rest of the state is as important, 521 00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: and that's gonna be my task going forward is to 522 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: get out there and eat with folks from you know, 523 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 1: Mobile to Montgomery to Birmingham to Tuscaloosa and everywhere in between. Uh, 524 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: to understand what their issues are and make sure that 525 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: I represent the entire state. And have you been getting 526 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: out there and meeting the people. Ground war? The ground 527 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,600 Speaker 1: war just started. We started with an air war because 528 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: I've only been in the campaign a week and a half, 529 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 1: so uh, the initial focuses on the air campaign and UH, 530 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: and now we're starting the ground campaign. But yeah, I 531 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: will be uh pretty much booked for the next seven 532 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 1: months going around and meeting with people and getting I 533 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,800 Speaker 1: think I know, I mean, Alabama is a red state. 534 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 1: I think I know people are generally conservative. I understand 535 00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: generally what the issues are, but there are regional issues 536 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: that I want to make sure I I know as 537 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:53,560 Speaker 1: well as I can so that I can represent appropriately. 538 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: Is there any issues you'd like to discuss and talk 539 00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: about with our readers and you know, tell them what 540 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: you're assionate about, what you're passionate about. Well, you know, 541 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: let's let's circle back on Afghanistan. I'm still in shock, honestly, 542 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: you know, when when like in in my role in 543 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: business or in the execution of a military operation, if 544 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: if you set a plan in motion and then something happens, 545 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: you shift to a contingency, right, or you reassess, or 546 00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,840 Speaker 1: you you know, you tap the brakes and you figure out, 547 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 1: all right, so this didn't go exactly the way we 548 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 1: thought it was gonna go. You know, let's adjust fire. 549 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's just human nature for us who've 550 00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: done tactical planning or run a business. So you look 551 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: at Afghanistan and Joe Biden sets this timeline for us 552 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 1: to withdraw, and you start to see province by province 553 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: the Taliban taking over, and instead of tapping the brakes 554 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 1: and saying, well, okay, there's not quite the stability we 555 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: thought there was going to be here, Perhaps we need 556 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:02,560 Speaker 1: to relook this, he does the opposite, doubles down and 557 00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: basically tries to get the Afghan leadership to stay quiet 558 00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: on the fact that the Taliban is basically taking over 559 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,160 Speaker 1: so that it doesn't hurt him politically. You know, it 560 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,480 Speaker 1: just it goes beyond my ability to comprehend the fact 561 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: that he cannot appreciate we we were in Afghanistan for 562 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 1: almost twenty years, more than four thousand lives lost. Many 563 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: of those contractors many of those active duty personnel, and 564 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: he is throwing it away. Well, he threw it away 565 00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: along with all the assets. But quite frankly, compared to 566 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: the lives and the sacrifice, the assets are meaningless. And 567 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: he threw it all away for for what I call 568 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: a sound bite him he wanted to be able to 569 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,000 Speaker 1: say I got us out of Afghanistan before the twentieth 570 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,560 Speaker 1: anniversary or nine eleven. For that, he gave it all away, 571 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: not even counting on the concluding the fact that we 572 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:56,479 Speaker 1: had a strategic presence in a very sophisticated air field 573 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:02,320 Speaker 1: in a country that borders Pakistan, in China and Iran. 574 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: I mean, how much more strategic can you get than that, 575 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: you know, And and we hadn't lost an active duty 576 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: person in a year. All we had to do is 577 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,840 Speaker 1: stop calling it a war, just you know, continue to 578 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 1: train the Afghans. Actually, my company was involved in training 579 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 1: some of the Afghan maintainers. You know, you can't teach 580 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: someone who worked on Russian aircraft, if they even worked 581 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 1: on Russian aircraft, how to maintain a black Hawk in 582 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,600 Speaker 1: you know, in six months. I mean, it takes a 583 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,040 Speaker 1: long time. You have to groom them to do the 584 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: introductory level tasks than the more advanced tasks. You know, 585 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: once we committed to helping them stand up this capability, 586 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 1: we have to commit. I mean our allies were committed, 587 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,680 Speaker 1: they were sort of left standing there Where did the 588 00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: US go, you know, along with US citizens Afghans who 589 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,320 Speaker 1: helped support the cause. I mean, it was just an 590 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: absolute travesty. So you know that that is one of 591 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: the issues we need to make sure we we find 592 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 1: who is accountable here. We had general officers who testified 593 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: recently that they told him this was going to happen, 594 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: and he ignored it. I mean, we have to hold 595 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: somebody accountable. There is too much that was sacrificed and 596 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: earned that was thrown away for just just just to 597 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: be kind of buried in history. We cannot allow foreign 598 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:25,360 Speaker 1: policy policy decisions like that to go on unchecked. The 599 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 1: vaccine mandates is the next one. You know, I got 600 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,080 Speaker 1: the vaccine. I didn't want to get it. I really didn't. 601 00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: I had COVID. It was not a big deal for me. 602 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,239 Speaker 1: I know it is for some, but it wasn't for me. 603 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: Uh So I should have some level of immunity. I 604 00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: mean that there's a debate about you know whether or 605 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: not there is there isn't, But I felt like the 606 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 1: risk of getting COVID again was not greater than what 607 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: I view as uncertainty about the long term effects of 608 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: the vaccine. Now everyone's opinion is different on this. You know, 609 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: some of that are super pro vaccine. I'm gonna tell 610 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 1: you it's been tested. We know everything. We don't know everything. 611 00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: We do not know if that vaccine is going to 612 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: have any effect on human bodies ten years down the road, 613 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: twenty years down the road, We just don't know. It 614 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: got pushed out pretty quick. It seems to be effective. 615 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: So I got it now. I got it because I 616 00:34:18,080 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: didn't want to be responsible for, you know, disrupting any 617 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: of our contracts or you know, spreading the virus here 618 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,319 Speaker 1: to any of our employees, spreading into my family. But 619 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: that's a personal decision. To see the government require vaccinations 620 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: to keep your job is ridiculous, I mean, and I 621 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: just don't feel like enough of our elected officials are 622 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 1: pushing back on this hard enough. And again why because 623 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 1: they've never run a business, they don't understand how important 624 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: it is to keep your employees. I mean, think about 625 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: the issues we have right now, with with labor, and 626 00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 1: now you're forcing me to terminate someone who wants to work, 627 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: who's qualified to work, who's experienced, and may not want 628 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 1: to get the vaccine for religious or health reasons, and 629 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: I gotta fire him. I mean it is is just 630 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: again an example of people making decisions that have not 631 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:18,319 Speaker 1: lived in the real world. I mean I had three 632 00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 1: people come to me last night. We did a fundraiser here. 633 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,239 Speaker 1: One guy they turned his badge off. He can't go 634 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,439 Speaker 1: to work. Another guy's an engineer, he's gonna be looking 635 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: for work in two weeks. I said, come work for us. 636 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: I mean, you fill out an exemption where you're you 637 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: attested the fact that this is against your religious beliefs, 638 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: and we'll take you. Uh. It's just amazing to me. 639 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,879 Speaker 1: As defense contractors, we cannot even let people work from home. 640 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: I mean it's completely illogical. We can't take a testing option, 641 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: we can't let them work from home. We can't even 642 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: work in the same If you share an elevator with 643 00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: someone who works on a defense contract and you're not vaccinated, 644 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,240 Speaker 1: your subject to a seven thousand dollar five per incident. 645 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: I mean it goes on and on. I'm in total 646 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: agreement with you there. I I have great uh great, 647 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: what's the correct word. I have apprehensions about the long 648 00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,040 Speaker 1: term effects on this, but I like you, I got 649 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 1: the vaccine, my whole family did. If you're asking me, 650 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: do I believe in it? In it, I'm kind of 651 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,400 Speaker 1: on the fence on that one. But at the same time, 652 00:36:29,480 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: I don't believe that they should mandage everyone. Get that. 653 00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: I mean, with with no testing option and no work 654 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,600 Speaker 1: from home option. That's ridiculous. Yes, I mean, I mean 655 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: you've got people that would say, look, if I don't 656 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:46,719 Speaker 1: have to have the vaccine, I'll test every day if 657 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: you want me to, and what would be wrong with that? 658 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 1: But they're they're not letting us even do that. It's 659 00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:59,520 Speaker 1: just ludicrous. Yeah, I don't understand it. Yeah. So you 660 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: know this all feeds into what's motivating Mike to want 661 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 1: to get in and do something. You know. I just 662 00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: I say this honestly, that's why I started Pannacle. I 663 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,919 Speaker 1: didn't want to be you know, seventy five and looking 664 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 1: back at my life and that seeing you know, this 665 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,919 Speaker 1: this junction in my life where I could have done 666 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: something and I did, and you know, maybe everything will 667 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: be fine. Without me, But I don't know, you know, 668 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,000 Speaker 1: and and can I make a difference. The only way 669 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: I'm ever gonna know is to get in the fight. 670 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, my goal is to move the needle. 671 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,160 Speaker 1: I can't save the world, but I can move the needle. 672 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, with a few other folks doing 673 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 1: the same thing, we can we can turn this thing around. 674 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: And so is there any other issues you'd like to 675 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 1: discuss while we got the time. Well, I mean I'm conservative, 676 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,600 Speaker 1: so you know it's all the what I would call 677 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: the the standard con you know, Republican conservative positions on 678 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:59,360 Speaker 1: the Second Amendment, First Amendment, Second Amendment. I am pro life. 679 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: You know, I know that that is a real flashpoint 680 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 1: with a lot of people. Uh, if you are pro life, 681 00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,480 Speaker 1: I think you look at the other side and you 682 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 1: can't reconcile the fact that this is an unborn child. 683 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:21,640 Speaker 1: I mean, if if you know, six months later you 684 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 1: did to this child what you're saying you're going to 685 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,200 Speaker 1: do now, you'd be tried for murder. So you know, 686 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,800 Speaker 1: there's a there's a scientific argument, there's a medical argument, 687 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: there's a an ethical argument or religious argument, and it's 688 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 1: a complex issue. But as a as a father who 689 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:47,080 Speaker 1: raised six kids, to think that, you know, somewhere along 690 00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,440 Speaker 1: the way, we we would have made a decision for 691 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,680 Speaker 1: whatever reason, to uh, to abort any of these kids. 692 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,800 Speaker 1: I can't even I can't even get my head around that. 693 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,840 Speaker 1: So I think if people really thought about it in 694 00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: those terms, they probably second guest this, you know, a 695 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: woman's right to choose. I respect women. I mean, this 696 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: is not anything against women and their role in the workplace, 697 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,880 Speaker 1: in society and everything else. But you know, biologically they 698 00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,719 Speaker 1: are the ones who carry the children, and you know 699 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: it is in the end, you know, for them to decide. 700 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:30,279 Speaker 1: But all I can say is I I wish that 701 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: more of them would look at this, you know, step 702 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: back and forget about their rights and think about that 703 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:42,319 Speaker 1: on board child's rights. So so that's one um uh. 704 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,240 Speaker 1: You know. The illegal immigration, that's another hot button issue 705 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:47,880 Speaker 1: for sure. And I think where things getting mixed up 706 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 1: here is that people forget about the word illegal. They 707 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,480 Speaker 1: think they focus on immigration. Someone did it today. I 708 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:57,160 Speaker 1: did an interview earlier on the radio, and and they 709 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: brought up the topic of immigration. No one's against immigration. 710 00:40:00,239 --> 00:40:05,279 Speaker 1: I mean, please come to this country and and and 711 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 1: be a citizen, but please do it legally. You know, 712 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:11,279 Speaker 1: we we have a process we're asking you to follow it. 713 00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 1: If you come in here illegally, we don't want that 714 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,120 Speaker 1: because we don't know who you are. We haven't vetted you, 715 00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:22,960 Speaker 1: and you're not in the system. So many don't pay taxes. 716 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: Yet there's still a burden on society. And and there's 717 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 1: there's nothing un American about asking people who want to 718 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: be American citizens to do so legally. And you know, 719 00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:40,200 Speaker 1: we are blessed and that we have the oceans that 720 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,879 Speaker 1: protect us on you know, left and right. Where we're 721 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: vulnerable obviously is in the northern border, in the southern border, 722 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: and most of the focuses on the southern border. Uh. 723 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:54,399 Speaker 1: The only way that we can truly seal that off 724 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 1: is with a wall. And I think people get wrapped 725 00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,919 Speaker 1: around the axle about the wall, like you know, it's 726 00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: it's anti immigration. It's not anti immigration. It's controlling the 727 00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: flow of immigrants through a a weak point in our perimeter. 728 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 1: I mean, if you think about it from a tactical perspective, 729 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 1: and it's the right thing to do. And I think 730 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,040 Speaker 1: that needs to get put back on track. We got 731 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 1: to support our border patrol agencies. You know, the fact 732 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,000 Speaker 1: that you got a border patrol agent on a horse 733 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:26,960 Speaker 1: that looks angry shouldn't become this political flash point. You 734 00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: know that guys trying to do his job and and 735 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 1: you know those jobs are hard. People don't realize when 736 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: you're in law enforcement, you're in the military, your border patrol, 737 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 1: you get faced with some tough situations and and you know, 738 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,080 Speaker 1: your training kicks in and you're everything kicks in, and 739 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,200 Speaker 1: sometimes mistakes are made. And you know, none of us 740 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: are going to tell you that everybody executes to to 741 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: to perfection. But boy, the liberals and Democrats and left 742 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,200 Speaker 1: wing people just jump on that like you know, we're 743 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: we are uh you know, inhuman and uh, you know 744 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,200 Speaker 1: people are gonna pay for for that kind of behavior, 745 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 1: when in fact, I don't know, I don't know what 746 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:05,759 Speaker 1: the scene was all about. It looked like a guy 747 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: on a horse to me, you know. But they're trying 748 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:12,319 Speaker 1: to find any excuse they can to undermine everything that 749 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:16,360 Speaker 1: makes this country great, and we gotta stop it. And 750 00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,479 Speaker 1: the good news is you just saw a governor's race 751 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:24,839 Speaker 1: in Virginia that proves even in a blue state, the 752 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: majority of people in this country are still somewhat conservative. 753 00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,080 Speaker 1: They do not want critical race theory taught. They do 754 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,239 Speaker 1: not want things taught to their children that they don't 755 00:42:33,239 --> 00:42:35,440 Speaker 1: approve of. They want to have some say in it. 756 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:39,560 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, this is most of America, and 757 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, if it happens in a place like that, 758 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,600 Speaker 1: you can guarantee it happens in a place like Alabama, 759 00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: where it's much more red and much more conservative. Well excellent, Yeah, Mike. 760 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:52,480 Speaker 1: I don't want to take up your whole afternoon, but 761 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:58,280 Speaker 1: we really appreciate your time and uh, you know, and 762 00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,800 Speaker 1: we wish you all the best going forward with your campaign. 763 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,200 Speaker 1: Is there anything you'd like to finish up? Maybe a 764 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,880 Speaker 1: message to the voters out there and the people that 765 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,560 Speaker 1: are listening in. The people that are listening in, Well, 766 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:13,239 Speaker 1: I know you get a lot of vets that listen in, 767 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,759 Speaker 1: and you know I'm a Vet, but I do want 768 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:22,080 Speaker 1: to express my appreciation for the service of all veterans. Uh. 769 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,000 Speaker 1: You know, I got a unique story, but the sacrifice 770 00:43:25,080 --> 00:43:28,439 Speaker 1: is universal. We we all made it, and uh, thank 771 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,680 Speaker 1: you for that, because again, it's a big part of 772 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:34,320 Speaker 1: what's great about this country. People willing to sacrifice to 773 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,840 Speaker 1: to do what's right for the country. And then you know, 774 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: from an election perspective, I need support. I need you know, 775 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: people have their own social networks. Get the word out. 776 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:46,840 Speaker 1: We need people to vote in the primary in Alabama. 777 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,320 Speaker 1: The primary is probably going to decide who occupies this seat, 778 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: and that's where the real race is. So you know 779 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people skip the primary. Please don't do that. 780 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: Come out and uh and cast a vote for me. 781 00:43:57,520 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 1: And if you want more information on on what I 782 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 1: repre that in the campaign itself. The website is Mike 783 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:05,520 Speaker 1: Durant dot com. It's m I K. E. D U 784 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,320 Speaker 1: r A n T dot com. I really appreciate the 785 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,399 Speaker 1: opportunity to talk today, and uh, I wish you all 786 00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:16,120 Speaker 1: very well. Well thanks Mike, and again maybe for somebody 787 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,719 Speaker 1: who's read your story, I feel like I already knew 788 00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,239 Speaker 1: you a little bit and it was a pleasure to 789 00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,400 Speaker 1: get to talk to you and meet you in person. 790 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,319 Speaker 1: And uh, you know, if we're ever up in the 791 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:31,920 Speaker 1: Huntsville area, will check you out, all right, please do yes, 792 00:44:32,040 --> 00:44:35,840 Speaker 1: someone down in Alabama we get more votes. Well, I 793 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 1: lived down in the state of Florida now, and uh, 794 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: you know, it was funny when you talk about immigration 795 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,279 Speaker 1: real quick. I spoke with someone a couple of months 796 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:49,000 Speaker 1: ago who was, uh, somebody who's going through the legal 797 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,560 Speaker 1: process of becoming a citizen, and he was very upset 798 00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:57,200 Speaker 1: because it's taken him several years to do it the 799 00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: right way, and he, you know, it was quite upset 800 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,319 Speaker 1: about the way some people are just getting a free 801 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:09,319 Speaker 1: ticket inside inside, and and and and rightfully, so you know, 802 00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,440 Speaker 1: I mean there's a sweet spot where it's you know, 803 00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: this is the right due diligence to go through to 804 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,640 Speaker 1: make sure that you know, this is a person we 805 00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,920 Speaker 1: want living here in our country, sharing and all the 806 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 1: greatness that this country has to offer. But it shouldn't 807 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,640 Speaker 1: take years. I agree with that. Al right, Well, we 808 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: want to thank you for joining us today. We want 809 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,160 Speaker 1: to thank all our listeners for checking us out. We'll 810 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 1: be back with another podcast here real soon. But from myself, 811 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,000 Speaker 1: Steve Balustralia, all of us here at Software Bradio, thank 812 00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,160 Speaker 1: you to our guests, Mike Durant. We wish all the 813 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,600 Speaker 1: best going forward and we'll be back with another show 814 00:45:45,600 --> 00:46:04,879 Speaker 1: in the very near You've been listening to self Red 815 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:05,360 Speaker 1: Radio