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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and we're just a few

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Speaker 2: MTV generation babies hanging out talking about MTV on this

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Speaker 2: MTV episode of Stuff You Should Know About MTV.

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Speaker 3: D Dan Dan, Dan Dent, dan At, dann Nnett, dann Nnett.

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Speaker 2: That's I'll be able to do that with my dying breath.

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Speaker 2: It's so ingrained in my head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, how can you not picture Neil Armstrong

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Speaker 1: jumping off onto that moon yep with an MTV flag.

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Speaker 2: For sure, and like a multi changing MTV flag that's

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Speaker 2: just drawing over the American flag. It's just iconic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. But hey, people, uh, the answers to who wrote

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Speaker 1: that song and who came up with that idea, they're

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Speaker 1: all in this jam packed episode about MTV where we

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Speaker 1: are surely going to wax nostalgic.

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Speaker 2: I think it would be impossible not to. As a

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Speaker 2: matter of fact, I challenge us to try not to

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Speaker 2: be nostalgic in this episode.

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Speaker 1: I've already ruined it. I just air guitar the MTV theme.

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Speaker 2: We'll exclude that Okay, so we're talking about MTV. I

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Speaker 2: don't think there's many people out there who don't know

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Speaker 2: what MTV is. It's a global juggernaut, or it certainly

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Speaker 2: was at one point in time. But for those who

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Speaker 2: may not be familiar, MTV stood for Music Television, and

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Speaker 2: it was what most people consider the first network dedicated

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Speaker 2: to playing music videos. It's not true, but it's close

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Speaker 2: enough that you might as well just say, fine, we'll

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Speaker 2: go with that as the definition.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. And this was not the beginning of

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Speaker 1: music videos music videos where MTV did not create the

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Speaker 1: music videos. They just were the first channel. Well that's

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Speaker 1: not even true either, so I'm just gonna shut up now.

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Speaker 1: Some people point to the song Chantilly Lace from nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty eight from The Big Bopper as maybe the first

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Speaker 1: music video because it was not just a film of

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Speaker 1: a band playing their song, but there was some performative

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Speaker 1: theatrics to it.

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Speaker 2: I saw one earlier by sixteen years with Cab calloway

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Speaker 2: doing Mini the Moocher.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, the Beatles are who people usually point to.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of starting out the music video thing where

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Speaker 1: they showed the band doing other things and they were

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Speaker 1: a little more elaborate and had different scenes and you

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Speaker 1: could see those on Top of the Pops on BBC

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Speaker 1: or the Ed Sullivan Show. And then that Bohemian Rhapsody

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Speaker 1: video from Queen from nineteen seventy five was one of

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Speaker 1: the big ones, and they expressly did that so they

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Speaker 1: didn't have to lip sync a performance on Top of

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Speaker 1: the Pops.

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Speaker 2: And that's a full eight years before MTV came out,

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Speaker 2: so that was like a definitive music video that they

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Speaker 2: played on MTV for like decades to come. It was

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Speaker 2: just a great video, but it also kicked off something

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Speaker 2: really important that led to MTV, which was it became

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Speaker 2: kind of standard in the recording industry to create a

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Speaker 2: music video for maybe the top single or something of

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Speaker 2: a big album that a big act was coming out

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Speaker 2: with to use as a marketing or promotional tool. So

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Speaker 2: apparently Queen kicked that off with the Bohemian Rhapsody video.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, there were some countries had like, you know,

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Speaker 1: music video shows. It would be on maybe late night

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Speaker 1: or something on a weird station. New Zealand had a

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Speaker 1: radio with pictures in nineteen seventy six on the nose

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Speaker 1: the USA Network, And I do remember this. In nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy eight, they had a show called Video Concert Hall.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I remember. I didn't like sit there glued to it

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Speaker 1: like I did MTV because I was still just seven

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Speaker 1: years old, and I think it was a late night thing.

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Speaker 1: But it was really you know, the MTV story goes

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Speaker 1: and locks up with the story of cable television. By

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Speaker 1: the way, big thanks to Olivia for this and little hint

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Speaker 1: up coming on Thursday, we're gonna round it out with

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Speaker 1: an episode on VH one. What Yes, you knew that?

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Speaker 2: Real?

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Speaker 1: You didn't know that? No? Yeah, I told you in

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Speaker 1: an email, let's do MTVMBH one this week.

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Speaker 2: I must have missed that.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, I'm glad we you're talking about MTV.

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Speaker 1: We'd be in bad shape for real. But the rise

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Speaker 1: of cable as like ten million subscribers in nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: five to forty million in nineteen eighty five. That was

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Speaker 1: really what grew MTV was cable being a thing and

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Speaker 1: the US government saying, hey, cable, it's a little looser,

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Speaker 1: you can kind of do a little more, and then

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Speaker 1: cable company saying, hey, maybe we should start thinking about

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Speaker 1: kind of different kinds of channels we've never had before.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because there were a lot more channels that the

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Speaker 2: FCC opened up on the bandwidth, where before it was

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Speaker 2: just over the air channels, and those were full, so

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Speaker 2: don't even ask shut up, the networks have those lockdown.

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Speaker 2: When cable opened, it was like, what do you want

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Speaker 2: to do. You want to make a channel off for kids, Great,

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Speaker 2: let's found Pinwheel and then eventually call it Nickelodeon. You

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Speaker 2: want to show reruns, We'll call it Nick ad Knight.

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Speaker 2: You want to show little kids, even smaller kids programs, Great,

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Speaker 2: we'll make a channel called Nick Junior. What else do

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Speaker 2: you want? And people said, we got enough Nickelodeon, Let's

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Speaker 2: think of something else. And one of the other things

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Speaker 2: that was thought of was something called the Movie Channel.

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Speaker 2: And there's a guy named Bob Pittman who was working

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Speaker 2: on it, and he happens to be the CEO of

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Speaker 2: iHeart Media, who we work for, and he's one of

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Speaker 2: the big players with the founding of MTV. And it

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Speaker 2: is usually the person that people will tell you who

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Speaker 2: know about this kind of thing, who if you ask

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Speaker 2: him who founded MTV, the answer will usually be Bob Pittman.

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Speaker 2: And that is true to an extent, but he wasn't alone.

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Speaker 2: One of the other founders, who is sometimes called the

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Speaker 2: architect of MTV, was already a very famous person by

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Speaker 2: the time MTV came out.

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Speaker 1: Are you talking about Mike Nesmith?

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Speaker 4: I am okay.

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Speaker 1: This was in nineteen seventy five. Mike Nesmuth of the

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Speaker 1: TV Show and the musical group The Monkeys. He made

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Speaker 1: a pilot called pop Clips, which was backed by TV production,

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Speaker 1: Legend and Juggernaut Norman Lear and it was, you know,

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Speaker 1: it was basically prot MTV. They had comedians introducing music

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Speaker 1: videos like promotional videos that these record companies were making, right,

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Speaker 1: And there was a guy named John Lack. I don't

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Speaker 1: think we mentioned that time. Warner Cable Corporation was one

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Speaker 1: of the early cable companies that they launched Nickelodeon. They

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Speaker 1: were kind of experimenting around, and in nineteen seventy nine

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Speaker 1: American Express bought half of that and that new company

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Speaker 1: John Lack worked for. He was the COO and he

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Speaker 1: ran Nickelodeon, and Nickelodeon did very well, and he eventually

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Speaker 1: hooked up with Bob Pittman, who, like you said, was

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Speaker 1: developing the Movie Channel, which I sorely missed. The Movie

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Speaker 1: Channel was great.

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Speaker 2: That was my favorite one too. I don't know why,

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Speaker 2: but it was my favorite.

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Speaker 1: Because it was only movies. Yeah, I guess that's actually

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Speaker 1: that was it because for a kid, even though HBO

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Speaker 1: was great, they had other stuff, and as a kid,

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Speaker 1: you were like, I just want movies, and that's what

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Speaker 1: the Movie channel was.

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Speaker 2: So Bob want to see Outland? What's the problem?

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Speaker 1: Oh man, you know you kidding. So Bob was running

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Speaker 1: that lack John Lack came to Bob and said, hey,

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Speaker 1: what do you think about doing something? If you're doing

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Speaker 1: this movie only channel, what about a music only thing?

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Speaker 1: And so Bob Pittman said, great, let's call it TV

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Speaker 1: one and they went, oh, no, that's already a thing.

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Speaker 1: And he went, all right, how about TVM like TV music?

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Speaker 1: And everyone went, well, what about MTV. We think that

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Speaker 1: sounds a little better, and he said all.

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Speaker 2: Right, yeah, And don't feel bad for Mike Nesmith. He

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Speaker 2: wasn't like squeezed out or they didn't steal his idea.

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Speaker 2: He was invited to be a part of the whole thing,

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Speaker 2: and he was not interested. He has always considered himself

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Speaker 2: an artiste and didn't run and get into the corporate

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Speaker 2: nitty gritty of it. So he said, just buy me

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Speaker 2: out and I'll go along my way. But he did

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Speaker 2: essentially kind of come up with the concept in the format,

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Speaker 2: and then Pittman and Lack took it over with a

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Speaker 2: couple of other guys, Fred Siebert and Allen Goodman, whose

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Speaker 2: experience I think up to that point had been working

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Speaker 2: together at a Columbia University student radio station. So these

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Speaker 2: people were all young, pretty hip. It's the early eighties.

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Speaker 2: And again the idea that there are promotional music videos

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Speaker 2: already in existence out there and that the record companies

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Speaker 2: give them away for free was the basis of where

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Speaker 2: MTV and all of the other like music video programs

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Speaker 2: came from, because you could make this thing on the cheap,

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Speaker 2: because again, record companies were giving these things away for

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Speaker 2: free and saying, yes, play them via condios. It will

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Speaker 2: only help us if you play these things on TV.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I remember when I met Bob for the first

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Speaker 1: time in New York at the iHeart offices. Our boss

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Speaker 1: Connell took me by. I think we had an official

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Speaker 1: meeting with him, but I was like, oh, like, I

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Speaker 1: gotta say something about MTB I said, is that for boten?

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Speaker 1: Is that not the kind of thing. He's like, oh no, man,

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Speaker 1: He's like, you should definitely say something. And I met

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Speaker 1: Bob and I was like, mister Pittman, I said, I

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Speaker 1: just want to let you know. I was like, I

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Speaker 1: was the guy. I was that kid who sat there

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Speaker 1: at ten years old, gulued to my television watching MTV

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Speaker 1: as many hours as I was allowed to consume it.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I was that kid. And he was like,

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Speaker 1: you know, he said, we counted on you and everyone

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Speaker 1: like you doing that same thing, otherwise it would not

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Speaker 1: have been a success. So he thanked me, which I

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Speaker 1: thought was very cool. Well, you have to finish the

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Speaker 1: story all the way at at well what was the end?

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Speaker 1: Around his desk with tears in his eyes and embraced

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Speaker 1: you for a good minute.

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Speaker 4: Connell said, no, no, no, no, he did not.

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Speaker 1: But I think I touched him maybe a bit. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Who can tell. He sent me a ball

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Speaker 1: of tequila one Christmas.

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Speaker 2: No, I like that one of those two. Oh we'll see.

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Speaker 1: I guess you didn't make him cry though.

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Speaker 4: Did you?

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Speaker 2: No? But I touched him.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 4: Uh?

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Speaker 1: So he hires these kids from the radio station. Like

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Speaker 1: you mentioned, they've got these videos, they need the other stuff.

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Speaker 1: They need the logo, they need the theme song, they

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Speaker 1: need the stuff in between the music videos, not only

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Speaker 1: just a cast, which we're going to talk about, but

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Speaker 1: you know, the like the bumper the video bumpers and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. So they brought in again teams of

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Speaker 1: friends to do this stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a I guess a guy named Frank

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Speaker 2: Olinsky who was a friend of Fred Sebert, remember, one

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Speaker 2: of the Columbia radio station guys, and he was creating

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Speaker 2: a design studio and he created the logo and apparently

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Speaker 2: just got it right out of the gate like it was.

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Speaker 2: There were not many iterations of it, like he just

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Speaker 2: nailed it. And there are very few logos that are

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Speaker 2: more recognizable than MTV. Yeah, in part because it spells

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Speaker 2: out the name in the logo, so you kind of

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Speaker 2: know exactly what the logo's for, but it's still pretty recognizable.

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Speaker 2: It's a logo, it really is. And then the musical riffs,

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Speaker 2: including the one that you did at the top of

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Speaker 2: the podcast, those were created by a couple of guys

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Speaker 2: named Scott Elliots and Jonathan Peterson, and they based it

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Speaker 2: on the Kinks. You really got me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you know, similar, I guess.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah it is. I mean, you can definitely tell

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Speaker 2: when you hear that. But I never thought like.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeahs rip off, you know yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then that moon Man, the moon landing became as

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Speaker 1: as sort of tied to MTV as anything else. And

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Speaker 1: is it because they thought, hey, where also embarking on

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Speaker 1: a journey not yet known? Sure? Is it because it

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Speaker 1: was one small step for television and a giant leap

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Speaker 1: for the music industry? Of course? Was it also because

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Speaker 1: that stuff was public domain and rights free. Absolutely?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. If the US government, which NASA is an agency

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Speaker 2: of the US government, the US government owns something, you

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Speaker 2: all own it too, as an American. It's in the

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Speaker 2: public domain, buddy. One of the other reasons, though, that

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Speaker 2: I saw, was that they were trying to basically say, like,

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Speaker 2: this is as monumental a cultural event as landing on

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Speaker 2: the Moon was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. They initially had a version with Neil Armstrong,

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Speaker 1: and I could swear I remember hearing, you know, one

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Speaker 1: small step for me, one giant leap for mankind, And

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Speaker 1: I guess I watched the first few days. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know I did, so that must have leaked in there,

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Speaker 1: because I definitely remember hearing that version. But Neil Armstrong

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Speaker 1: came forward and he was like, no, no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: like that may be in the public domain, but that's

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Speaker 1: my voice. You can't use my voice. So John Lack

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Speaker 1: said he replaced that by saying a recording of himself

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Speaker 1: Ladies and Gentlemen rock and roll, and that was it.

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Speaker 1: Apparently after the Challenge Disaster, that branding ended in nineteen

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Speaker 1: eighty six. But yeah, I didn't know that. I know

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Speaker 1: the moon Man is still the VMA Trophy, so maybe

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Speaker 1: just parts of it continued on. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I could see them taking it off the air temporarily

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Speaker 2: because I deftinitely remember seeing it too, I would guess

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Speaker 2: after nineteen eighty six, but I thought so, yes, I

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Speaker 2: could see the Challenge of Disaster happening, being like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: let's just not do anything space related right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah? What about the taglines? He had a couple of

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Speaker 1: those early on too, right.

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Speaker 2: The idents you mean, oh the tagline sorry, yeah, apparently

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Speaker 2: it was you'll never look at music the same way again?

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Speaker 2: Pretty fun on cable in stereo. Yeah, yeah, they're okay.

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Speaker 2: That and ladies and gentlemen rock and roll. They just

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Speaker 2: sound like they're delivered by somebody wearing rainbow suspenders, just

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Speaker 2: real like late seventies, early eighties kind of branding stuff.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I could see that, But what about.

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Speaker 2: The idents, the identifying I guess snippets. I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: what the actual TV trade name is for them.

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Speaker 1: I think I call them bumpers earlier. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: what the trade name is either, But I don't know

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Speaker 1: what we're headed here, so take it away.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, it's like station branding, showing you what network

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Speaker 2: you're watching. And MTV became really famous for all sorts

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Speaker 2: of weird and bizarre ways of showing like are you're

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Speaker 2: watching MTV? Like one of the really famous ones that

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Speaker 2: I remember was it was a guillotine suddenly coming down

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Speaker 2: and you had no idea what was going on. It

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Speaker 2: was just the whole thing started on shot of a

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Speaker 2: guillotine blade falling and then all of a sudden, in

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Speaker 2: the basket or on the floor of the gallows or wherever,

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Speaker 2: a head fall down, and the head is in the

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Speaker 2: shape of the M and there's two eyes and like

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Speaker 2: a tongue sticking out and it's this really weird, unsettling

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Speaker 2: claymation head. But it's the MTV logo.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know we did. If anyone saw our short

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Speaker 1: run of the Stuff You Should Know TV show, we

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Speaker 1: had some very I think it was almost like an

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Speaker 1: homage some very similar bumpers that came in and out

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Speaker 1: of commercial break for our TV show that were animations

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Speaker 1: done by our friend Russ Yeah, who did a phenomenal job.

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Speaker 1: They're just like, it's one of the coolest things about

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Speaker 1: that show still, I think.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And also, if you want to see some MTV idents,

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Speaker 2: there's something on YouTube titled Creepy MTV Ident and Logos

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Speaker 2: Collection nineteen nineties and it's I think like twenty five

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Speaker 2: minutes of these ten second clips.

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Speaker 1: Amazing. I'll have to check that out.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you definitely should. Sorry, didn't send it to you.

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Speaker 2: That's okay, No, it's not Chuck, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: On August first, just after midnight nineteen eighty one, is

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Speaker 1: when MTV formerly for Mulli premiered sort of. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess it did formally appear, but unless you lived

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Speaker 1: in just parts of New Jersey then you wouldn't see

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Speaker 1: it because that was there was only one cable operator

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Speaker 1: who even carried it at the time, and the cast

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Speaker 1: even had to like pile in a rented school bus

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Speaker 1: to drive to Fort Lee, New Jersey at a bar

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Speaker 1: called the Loft because they knew that they would have

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Speaker 1: it there. But the very first images that came on

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Speaker 1: screen were the was the Columbia Space Shuttle launching, that

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Speaker 1: moon landing that we spoke of, the MTV logo, and

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Speaker 1: of course that musical riff all put together and what

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Speaker 1: is now the most tired and obvious trivia question of

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Speaker 1: all time, probably the very first video to play. And

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Speaker 1: I'm not making fun of if you didn't know this,

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Speaker 1: but it just feels like one of those It's like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, everybody knows that the Buggles video Killed

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Speaker 1: the Radio Star was the first MTV video.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is appropriate video Kill the Radio Star, although

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Speaker 2: it did it quite the opposite though. It actually made

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Speaker 2: the Radio Star into even bigger stars, as we'll.

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Speaker 1: See, unless you weren't good at videos.

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Speaker 2: No, or you didn't want to make a video, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're basically making a massive career choice right then, in

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Speaker 2: the eighties and nineties to just basically be like, no,

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Speaker 2: I don't want to be that huge, So I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to play MTV's game.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the question now at Bart Truvia should

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Speaker 1: be everybody knows that video Killed the Radio Star was

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Speaker 1: the first music video played on MTV. What was the second?

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Speaker 2: Oh do you know, because I don't, I don't have

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Speaker 2: that list.

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Speaker 1: It is it was Pat Benattar You Better Run. In

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Speaker 1: that first twenty four hours, there were one hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixteen unique videos for two hundred and nine total plays.

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Speaker 1: So yes, there were plenty of repeats. The Pretender's Brass

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Speaker 1: and Pocket the who You Better You Bet was the

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Speaker 1: first one to be repeated. Rod Stewart had this is shocking.

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Speaker 1: On the very first day of MTV. Rod Stewart had

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Speaker 1: eleven not just videos playing, he had eleven different videos

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Speaker 1: playing for sixteen total plays.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: And your boys Iron Maiden were in that first they

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Speaker 1: were in the top twenty. Buddy number sixteen was the

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Speaker 1: song Iron Maiden.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then later on they played Rathchild too, so

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Speaker 2: they had two videos in the first twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I mean if you kind of put all

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Speaker 1: those together, what you're seeing is a very very varied lineup.

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Speaker 1: Even though they were replaying stuff like Phil Collins in

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Speaker 1: the Air Tonight and Just Between You and Me by

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Speaker 1: April Wine. Those were each played five times on the

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Speaker 1: first day. But you know they had a to call

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Speaker 1: when you don't have a lot of stuff in stock problem.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, a supply problem.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, so yeah, it was so varied. I

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Speaker 2: saw that they played the video for Andrew gold thank

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Speaker 2: You for Being a Friend, which went on to become

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Speaker 2: the Golden Girls theme. That was the fifty fourth video

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Speaker 2: played on MTV ever, and they only played it once.

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Speaker 1: But who was playing this vjays? They had to start

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Speaker 1: out with an initial lineup of vjys. Bob Pittman very

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Speaker 1: much had I think it was kind of Breakfast clubby.

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Speaker 1: He wanted very specific archetypes of youngish people. He said,

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Speaker 1: we need a black person, which was JJ Jackson forty

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Speaker 1: one years old by the way, so he was sort

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Speaker 1: of the the old guy for the ten year old

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Speaker 1: that was watching.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: We need a girl next door, which was Martha Quinn

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Speaker 1: twenty two years old. I think she was the youngest.

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Speaker 1: We need a sexy little siren, clearly Nina Blackwood. We

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Speaker 1: need a boy next door that would have been Alan Hunter.

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Speaker 1: And then we need some hunky Italian looking guy with

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Speaker 1: curly hair, and that was, of course Mark Goodman.

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Speaker 2: And I think Mark Goodman was the first VJ on.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I thought it was Alan Hunter.

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure it was Mark Goodman. I watched, like,

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Speaker 2: there are also videos of you know, the first hour,

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Speaker 2: the first two hours, the first whatever hours of MTV,

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Speaker 2: and I watched the first a little bit of it,

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Speaker 2: and I'm pretty sure it was Mark Goodman who was first. Oh, okay,

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Speaker 2: we'll we'll find out eventually. One day I did see that.

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Speaker 2: I think VH one rebroadcast the first twenty four hours

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Speaker 2: of MTV once not too many years ago.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, that's fun.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just as like a hey guys, we like you

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Speaker 2: over here.

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Speaker 1: And also I'm a semi recent subscriber to Serious xm H.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why I resisted for so many years.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I just didn't know as much about it, but

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Speaker 1: I love it. It's great. It's fun to have somebody

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Speaker 1: curating music and not constantly for me at least be

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Speaker 1: sitting around going like, oh god, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: listen to I can't think of anything. What can I play?

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Speaker 1: And it's great and they got great channels. This is

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Speaker 1: not an ad for them, but I really really am

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Speaker 1: enjoying it. And there are a few shows on a

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Speaker 1: few stations from those VJs. I think Martha Quinn has

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Speaker 1: a show.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, Alan.

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Speaker 1: Hunter has one. Mark Goodman, I think Nina Blackwood used to.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if Martha good Quinn still does, but yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's cool to and I didn't even know, Like, I'll

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Speaker 1: just be listening to a cool station and it's like

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Speaker 1: Mark Goodman pops up. It's nice.

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Speaker 2: I feel like they owe you at least a free

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Speaker 2: month for a hat, a baseball cap.

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Speaker 1: At least it happened a free year.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, so did you finally cave when the offer

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Speaker 2: for how much it would cost you a month kept

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Speaker 2: going down and it got into like the dollar fifty area.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's the sort of the ticket. You

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Speaker 1: just wait for a good deal first twelve months or

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Speaker 1: like five bucks or something.

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Speaker 2: And they said, well, there it goes, your free year, chuck.

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Speaker 1: A couple of comedians early on that went on to

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Speaker 1: be noteworthy were rejected. Richard Belzer, which is hysterical to

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Speaker 1: think of him as an EMPTVVJ.

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Speaker 4: He's so cool though, oh of bells.

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Speaker 1: And then Carol Leifer was a comedian who later went

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Speaker 1: on to write for Seinfeld.

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Speaker 2: Yes, she did pretty well for herself. Yeah, the thing

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Speaker 2: is in retrospect today you're like, yeah, MTV is huge,

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Speaker 2: not at first, like you said, basically, Fort Lee, New

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Speaker 2: Jersey was the first and only place to have access

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Speaker 2: to MTV, and like you said, New Jersey was the

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Speaker 2: only place, just a few small parts of New Jersey

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Speaker 2: was the only place where you could see MTV. So

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Speaker 2: it wasn't out of the gate like a sure bet

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Speaker 2: that MTV was going to become a huge cable juggernaut.

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Speaker 2: And to kind of help spread the word that there

435
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 2: was such a thing as MTV, an ad agency called

436
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 2: the LPG Pond Agency very wisely came up with the

437
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,280
Speaker 2: I Want my MTV campaign, and I remember seeing those

438
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 2: on MTV, but they were originally designed to play on

439
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 2: other networks, to get people watching at home to call

440
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 2: their cable operator and say, hey, man, I want my MTV.

441
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:52,479
Speaker 2: And it worked.

442
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:53,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

443
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: I mean basically, any musician that came through the MTV

444
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: office and studio, I think they just had like a

445
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 1: standing set where they could say just go in there

446
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: and however you want to do it, say I want

447
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,080
Speaker 1: my MTV. And that's why they were also kind of

448
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,199
Speaker 1: fun and varied and clearly off the cuff, but it

449
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,639
Speaker 1: became part of their branding such that the one of

450
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 1: my favorite groups, Dire Straits in nineteen eighty five immortalized

451
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: it via Sting as a guest singer singing I want

452
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 1: my MTV at the beginning of the song money for Nothing,

453
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 1: which would also become a huge, huge music video.

454
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 2: Uncredited guests I think.

455
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 1: Even meaning that they didn't pay him, no, that.

456
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 2: They didn't say and Sting ladies and gentlemen, well like

457
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 2: in the song, Yeah, that's what I would have expected.

458
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: Who does that? Like before Dolly Parton's verse in Islands

459
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: in the Stream, Kenny Rogers just goes and now Dolly.

460
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 2: Parton, I could totally see that he would pull it

461
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 2: off too.

462
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: He totally could have.

463
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 3: So.

464
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 2: One of the things that also helped the channel spread,

465
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 2: especially by word of mouth among their target market, which

466
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 2: was teens, especially teens who got fat allowances from their parents,

467
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,479
Speaker 2: is that some conservative places were like, we're not carrying

468
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 2: this MTV, and they made the terrible mistake of actually

469
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,399
Speaker 2: publicizing that they weren't going to carry MTV, and they

470
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,920
Speaker 2: were like Christian organizations, the Parents Music Resource Center would

471
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 2: kind of get in the craw of MTV but simultaneously

472
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,680
Speaker 2: give it really good press, because if your parents didn't

473
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 2: want you watching it, you definitely wanted to watch MTV.

474
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And you know I mentioned that supply problem.

475
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: I do have a number here thanks to Olivia. There

476
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:38,719
Speaker 1: were only two hundred and fifty videos at first, so

477
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 1: if you look at the math, they played two hundred

478
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 1: and nine videos on the first day, so they sort

479
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: of spent their allowance almost fully on that first day.

480
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: So for a long time you were seeing videos and

481
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: repeated heavily and heavy rotation, and even once they had

482
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: you know, it was sort of like the radio, like

483
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 1: the ones that were hit got played more, even when

484
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 1: they did have the supply.

485
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 2: My friend did a little bit of math.

486
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: Ooh how God is always my favorite part.

487
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 2: At an average of three minutes per video I think

488
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,080
Speaker 2: is a good average, they would have to start over

489
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 2: every twelve hours.

490
00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,919
Speaker 1: Oh if they just didn't repeat ones and they just

491
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: played their whole supply.

492
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, the whole wid Yeah. One thing though, there was this,

493
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,080
Speaker 2: there's a documentary out on Divo that's really good on Netflix.

494
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: Oh I saw, haven't seen it.

495
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:35,119
Speaker 2: It's really good, I think, And they really kind of

496
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 2: talk a lot about how Divo so Divo in the

497
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 2: early days, they were an art collective as much as

498
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: a band. Yeah, and so they made quirky, weird films

499
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 2: for their songs. So they were making music videos before

500
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 2: MTV and they didn't have anywhere to show them. And

501
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 2: then MTV came along, and Divo helped make MTV. They

502
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 2: gave them more really good like videos that people wanted

503
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 2: to see. Yeah, and then as MTV got bigger and

504
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,359
Speaker 2: bigger and more and more commercial, Divo got left to

505
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 2: the wayside, forgotten. You could say, it's actually kind of

506
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 2: sad as things just kind of started to go downhill

507
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: for the band. But that that was a big point

508
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 2: that they made, and I think something overlooked that there

509
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 2: were a lot of interesting pioneering groups oh yeah, that

510
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:21,439
Speaker 2: were making videos even before MTV came along. The MTV

511
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 2: digested and fed itself on and grew big on and

512
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 2: then they just got left because all of a sudden,

513
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 2: Kip Winger was like, oh, if I took my shirt

514
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: off and tease my hair out with it. Put a

515
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 2: little aquinet in there. I can make a video too,

516
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 2: and they're like, no, no, no, it's not quite that easy.

517
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 2: We need to film it in black and white video

518
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: and then you'll have a video. He's like, oh, okay,

519
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 2: let's do it, and.

520
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: Kip Winger's like yeah, but like, don't you understand my

521
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: song's about seventeen year old girls.

522
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is, there's no getting around it. The

523
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 2: only one that's worse, they're more blatant than that, is

524
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,120
Speaker 2: Benny Madrones.

525
00:26:58,320 --> 00:26:58,359
Speaker 3: No.

526
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: His is Into the Night where he's like trying to

527
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,640
Speaker 2: spring like a middle schooler or something like that from

528
00:27:05,640 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: her parents' house.

529
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't remember that.

530
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,680
Speaker 2: If I could fly, I pick you up, into you, into.

531
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: The Oh I know that song?

532
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, show you.

533
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: It's a good song, super creepy.

534
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 2: You just can't stop and think about what he's saying.

535
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:27,679
Speaker 1: Yeah. Or watch the Linel Ritchie video for hello is

536
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: it me You're looking for? Oh, he's kind of a

537
00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: sweet song, but in the video he's like a He's

538
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: like a teacher that seemed seemingly stalking a blind student.

539
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 2: Right and a sculpture sculptor, right, an art teacher.

540
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so it was. It's one of those

541
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: at the time you're like, oh that's sweet. Now you're like,

542
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: oh my god, like fire fire that teacher.

543
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 2: Right. There's a lot of eighties and nineties media that's

544
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:49,879
Speaker 2: like that.

545
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 1: Yeah. One thing I did want to say when you

546
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 1: were talking about Devo, like I can say for sure

547
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,399
Speaker 1: that ten year old Chuck would not have known about

548
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: Devo or the Talking Head, right, or like do you

549
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 1: remember the Art of Noise video?

550
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: Oh, like the super cool like animation.

551
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: Is like herky jerky stop motion. Yeah, like chit chainsawing mannequins.

552
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 4: And what was the name of the song.

553
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: I don't remember the name of the song, but the band.

554
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,639
Speaker 1: But like, there's no way I would have known, Like

555
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: I was listening to the top forty radio and then

556
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,400
Speaker 1: in a couple of years my brother in law would

557
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 1: start feeding me Southern rock and Leonard skinnerd and Almond

558
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: Brothers and stuff like that, and like, there's no way

559
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: I would have been listening to any artsy stuff like

560
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: that because that didn't come along for me until I

561
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: started listening to alternative music in like the ninth and

562
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: tenth grade.

563
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 2: You know, And I think a lot of people out

564
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 2: there would be like, well, no, Chuck, you would have

565
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: heard Divo on the radio, or you would.

566
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: Have heard I doubt it, are maybe talking to the.

567
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 2: Radio, maybe talking heads. Right. The point is is the

568
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 2: reason you heard those on the radio is because of MTV.

569
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 2: Because when it became clear that if you gave MTV

570
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: promotional videos for free and played them, yeah, you were

571
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: going to start selling records in that cable operators region.

572
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 2: That's just what happened. It became very clear, very quantifiable,

573
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: early on that where MTV played a song and it

574
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 2: didn't matter if it was a well known band or

575
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: someone you'd never heard of. Those records we're going to

576
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,760
Speaker 2: sell in local record stores. And from that point on,

577
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: MTV is basically it had its its path set out

578
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 2: for him.

579
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, Devo is so good. If your only experience

580
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: with Devo is the satisfaction the Rolling Stones cover or

581
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: the whip It, both of which are great songs. Yeah,

582
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: like do yourself a favor and just dive in. It's

583
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: amazing music. I love Devot and shout out of course

584
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,720
Speaker 1: to Akron Akron Akron in Forrestone High School.

585
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 2: Chuck We're thirty minutes in and we haven't taken an

586
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: ad break yet.

587
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 1: I thought we took one.

588
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 2: No, I don't think so, did we. Let's ask Jerry

589
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 2: to rule on this. Jerry, you have not okay?

590
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,160
Speaker 1: All right, Jerry verified, and hopefully we can leave that

591
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: in there Jerry's voice. I don't know if she's going

592
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: to be okay with it or not, but this one's

593
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: clearly going to be super size. So maybe thirty minutes

594
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: is about right.

595
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 2: Okay, So we're going to cut to commercial break right now?

596
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 2: Will you play us out with the music stinger? No?

597
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: Oh oh me, I thought you met Jerry.

598
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 3: You Dan Danna, Danna, Danna Dan Dan It bannan Internet

599
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 3: bannet very nice.

600
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: Okay. Check. So. One of the things I definitely associate

601
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: with MTV is Michael Jackson's Thriller. I was into Thriller.

602
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 2: I had the red Thriller jacket. My mom made me

603
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 2: a white sequin glove for my first communion as a gift.

604
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,280
Speaker 2: I was super into Michael Jackson and I love Thriller

605
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 2: so much that my family bought the making of the

606
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 2: Thriller video on VHS and my sister watched it essentially

607
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: until it broke. So I always associate MTV with Thriller.

608
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: Anytime I knew it was coming on, I would go

609
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,440
Speaker 2: watch it. It was awesome. But it turns out like

610
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson and his record label had to basically fight

611
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 2: to get on to MTV, which is mind boggling to

612
00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 2: me these days.

613
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. This was nineteen eighty two when the

614
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: Landmark album came out. There's a very funny Vincent Price

615
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: story because Vincent Price, obviously the legendary spooky actor, was

616
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 1: in the thirteen minute mini movie that accompanied as the video,

617
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: and Vincent Price had an option apparently to either take

618
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: a flat fee of like I don't even know how

619
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 1: much it was, twenty grand or something. That's all I

620
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: was gonna say, or get yeah, that sounds about right,

621
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:19,760
Speaker 1: or get points on the Thriller album. And he clearly

622
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 1: opted for the flat fee oh wow, and would go

623
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: on to regret that for many years, and apparently over

624
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: the years called Michael Jackson a lot trying to sort

625
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: of get back that deal, which his calls were never returned.

626
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: And I will just let the listener look up the

627
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: quote apparently that came out about Vincent Price when Michael

628
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: Jackson settled with his alleged victims many years later. I'm

629
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: not going to say it here, but you can go

630
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 1: look it up if you want.

631
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: Okay. One other thing about that album too, that was interesting.

632
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 2: Billy Jean was on there. I know Beat It was

633
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 2: on there. They both were, but Eddie van Halen played

634
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 2: guitar and Beat It very famous like solo. Oh yeah,

635
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 2: And apparently at the time van Halen had like no

636
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 2: outside work deal with one another. All they could do

637
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: is focus on van Halen, and so Eddie van Halen

638
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 2: had the opportunity. He's like, yeah, I don't think anybody'll

639
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: hear this record. I'm just going to play on this

640
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 2: dude's record and no one will know about it because

641
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 2: it will be uncredited. And sure enough, it turns out

642
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 2: that Beat It and Thriller became one of the biggest

643
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: selling albums of all time.

644
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean well, people sort of like, how could

645
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: Vincent Price have done that? But Michael Jackson wasn't that

646
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 1: level until after Thriller, So, I mean, Off the Wall

647
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: was out of course, and he was with the Jackson five,

648
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: but no one knew it was going to be you know,

649
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 1: one of the best selling, if not the best selling

650
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: albums of all time.

651
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: Man, poor Vincent Price. I didn't know that. Yeah.

652
00:33:47,480 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: And also in regards to Thriller, it was a nine

653
00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars budget for that video, directed by John Landis,

654
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: and part of the funding came from Josh's parents because

655
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: they ended up selling, you know, the making of on

656
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 1: vhs like you mentioned, one hundred thousand copies of that

657
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: in advance for twenty nine to ninety five. Showtime paid

658
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars to see the documentary or I'm sorry,

659
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: just to air the documentary, and MTV paid another quarter

660
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: of a million dollars for the ultimate right, So.

661
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:19,839
Speaker 2: That's just the documentary.

662
00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because the videos were free, yeah.

663
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 2: For the making of Thriller the documentary, and it was good.

664
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 2: It was like an hour and ten minutes long. I

665
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: looked it up.

666
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I watched it.

667
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,399
Speaker 2: So one of the reasons why Thriller was a big

668
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 2: deal is because there weren't a lot of black performers

669
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,719
Speaker 2: or artists on MTV at the time, so much so

670
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 2: that David Bowie very famously called MTV out.

671
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

672
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: In an interview on MTV with Mark Goodman, and he

673
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 2: basically just said, like, what's what's the deal here? I

674
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: think his actually quote is what the holy heck is

675
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 2: going on with use guys? And it was it was true.

676
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 2: I mean like you just couldn't put it any other away.

677
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 2: And MTV basically said, well, we play rock, and it's

678
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 2: actually rock's fault because they're the ones who exclude black

679
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,080
Speaker 2: acts by calling them R and B and not rock.

680
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 2: So blame blame the music industry, not us. And that

681
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 2: didn't fly. That wasn't good enough. And there's a guy

682
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,759
Speaker 2: who's there's a hero in this story. It's him. His

683
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 2: name is Walter Yetnikoff. I think he was the head

684
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 2: of CBS Records at the time, and he said, if

685
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 2: you don't start playing these singles, these videos off of

686
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:32,280
Speaker 2: Michael Jackson's Thriller album, we're pulling all of CBS Records artists.

687
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 2: You're not going to get a single video form many

688
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: of them. And that was significant because they made up

689
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 2: about a quarter of the videos that were playing on

690
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 2: MTV at the time.

691
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:43,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, and part two of that and this is for real,

692
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: he said, we will publicly accuse you of racism if

693
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: you don't start playing these yeah, so I think that

694
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: really hit home. Obviously, they got Billy Jean and beat

695
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: it in the rotation fairly heavily at first, but Libya

696
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: said she on that didn't last too long. I feel

697
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 1: like I remember seeing those ad nauseum forever.

698
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 2: Oh really, I remember not seeing them as often as

699
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 2: I wanted.

700
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,880
Speaker 1: Oh well, you also had a Sequin White love on,

701
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,840
Speaker 1: so you might have wanted to hear more than me.

702
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 1: I don't know.

703
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true.

704
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: I love those songs though. And I remember working a

705
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 1: commercial job one time with my longtime production manager Andrea,

706
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: and she it was very casually dropped that she was

707
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:29,479
Speaker 1: a production coordinator on the beat at video one time,

708
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: and I was like, excuse me. One of the fun

709
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: things about doing that stuff in LA is you would

710
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: always meet people that like just worked on these legendary jobs.

711
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: Every now and then it's like, yeah, yeah, I was

712
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: the lighting guy for whatever for thriller.

713
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 2: That's cool.

714
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

715
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 2: So by this time, we're talking mid eighties and MTV

716
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 2: is now the place that is making the names of

717
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:56,960
Speaker 2: the artists who are making videos for their music, right, Yeah,

718
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,240
Speaker 2: And the more daring you were, the more Kip Winger

719
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 2: ask you were you could make a really big name

720
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 2: for yourself. It didn't matter all that much whether your

721
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,839
Speaker 2: music was particularly good. Sometimes it didn't matter whether your

722
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 2: video was even particularly good. If you could get onto

723
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 2: MTV and nail it in just the right way, they

724
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 2: would play it a lot, and you would sell a

725
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 2: lot of records and your your career would be made.

726
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 2: And it's no overstatement to say that Madonna's career was made.

727
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 2: Who else, Chuck.

728
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: Well, I mean people that already had good careers were

729
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 1: launched into the stratosphere, like people like Billy Joel who

730
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: was already a prominent artist. All of a sudden, he's

731
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: putting out some like some of the buzz band, like

732
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 1: groundbreaking videos like Pressure and then when he married or

733
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 1: was dating at least Christy Brinkley, oh M video and

734
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: like the video for Uptown Girl, and all of a

735
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 1: sudden that the biggest supermodel on planet Earth was on MTV.

736
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: That was a big deal. They started the Top twenty

737
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: video countdown in nineteen eighty four, So all of a sudden,

738
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 1: that is rivaling America in Top forty on radio. As

739
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: far as like where the kids are going to see

740
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: the top content, the VMA's a video. Music words started

741
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: also in nineteen eighty four and had plenty of iconic moments,

742
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 1: and very quickly. Like music video directors, it became sort

743
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 1: of a farm league for people that would go on

744
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: to be huge. Huge movie directors started out in music videos.

745
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 2: Or it went the other way too. I saw that

746
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,799
Speaker 2: William Friedkin, who directed The Exorcist in nineteen eighty three,

747
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 2: also directed Laura brand Again's video for self Control in

748
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,040
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three. Yeah, you know, the one where she

749
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 2: lives among the creatures of the night. Uh huh, she

750
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: doesn't have the will to try and fight.

751
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,439
Speaker 1: I remember that. I love Laura brand Again.

752
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 2: That's a great song. It beats the heck out of Gloria.

753
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 2: If you ask me, I like Lauria. I mean, I

754
00:38:58,120 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 2: guess you don't have to choose. But I still like

755
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 2: self control more. But yeah, William Friedkin of The Exorcist

756
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 2: directed that video.

757
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: That's true. But far more often, to be fair, it

758
00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: went the other way and people started out music videos

759
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: and went on to be very popular film directors. David

760
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 1: Fincher directed Vogue from Madonna, The End of Anocence from

761
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: Don Henley Janey's Got a gun from Aerosmith, not the

762
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: Aerosmith videos that featured Lib Tyler and Alicia Silverstone that

763
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,240
Speaker 1: were also iconic. He also directed the George Michael Freedom

764
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 1: ninety video, which talk about supermodels, like every supermodel under

765
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: the sun was in that one.

766
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,400
Speaker 2: I was reading about George Michaels I Want Your Sex

767
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 2: video and I was like, I guarantee that was as

768
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: controversial as anything was when it came out, And so

769
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 2: I went on to our beloved newspapers dot com and

770
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:54,799
Speaker 2: looked for some contemporaraneous articles on that, and dude, the

771
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 2: stuff that they were saying, like like should videos should

772
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 2: sexy videos be? Yeah, there are limits to artists' rights

773
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 2: and all this just junk censorship, junk that today is like,

774
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 2: this is what like you guys were amusing yourselves with

775
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: in the mid to late eighties, and it absolutely was,

776
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 2: and if you go back and look at the video,

777
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 2: it is objectively sexy. But to ban anything because of

778
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 2: this video, it's just mind bogglingly stupid. Today. In twenty

779
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 2: twenty five.

780
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, another group of directors, Michel Gondry and

781
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: Spike Jones, got their starts. If you want to talk

782
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: about just sort of groundbreaking videos. Peter Gabriel's Sledgehammer in

783
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:43,120
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six. Yes, it was directed by Steven R. Johnson.

784
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 1: That the amazing stop motion animation with the help of

785
00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: the Brothers Quay and Ardman Animations. That was a big one.

786
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 1: And then of course the Aha Take on Me video

787
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:53,439
Speaker 1: was a huge, huge breakthrough video.

788
00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 3: Man.

789
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: Such a great song still, yeah, like the kind of

790
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 2: song you can listen to on repeat. Still. I mean,

791
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 2: think about how many times you've heard take on Me.

792
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:03,239
Speaker 1: I love the song.

793
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 2: It's a really great song. Still. But yes, that video

794
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 2: is amazing and plus, I mean it didn't hurt that

795
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,800
Speaker 2: the lead singer was about as dreamy as a person

796
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 2: on MTV.

797
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: D Yeah, they're all they're all hot, dude.

798
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:17,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember my sister with her hands clasped under

799
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 2: her chin, just like staring at the TV whenever that

800
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 2: guy came on.

801
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: We should mention just for Lyvia too, because Liba wrote

802
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: this and she clearly has a soft spot in her

803
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,000
Speaker 1: heart for Bonnie Tyler's Total Eclipse of the Heart video.

804
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, she pointed out that there is a literal version

805
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 2: that they sing like. They changed the lyrics based on

806
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,839
Speaker 2: what's going on in the video. It's pretty hilarious. There's

807
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 2: some other ones too that definitely made MTV because, as

808
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 2: we talked about in Saturday Morning Cartoons, MTV provided a

809
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: bardic function for American teenagers and eventually teenagers around the world.

810
00:41:53,239 --> 00:41:55,240
Speaker 2: Like when you went and watched The Top twenty Countdown,

811
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 2: you were seeing as all of your friends were seeing

812
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 2: at the same time. What was cool that week? Right,

813
00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 2: or you talked about like have you seen the zz

814
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 2: top video? Like zz Top had a trio of videos

815
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 2: called the Eliminator Series for legs, sharp Dressed Man and

816
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:14,000
Speaker 2: give Me all Your Loving and it featured like that

817
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 2: super cool like nineteen thirties car or whatever with the

818
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,840
Speaker 2: zz top keychain and like their guitar and their bass

819
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 2: would spin on the axis. They could just twirl them,

820
00:42:26,719 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 2: you remember that. And they were fuzzy. They were just

821
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 2: really cool videos. And I remember just being like, Wow,

822
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 2: I like these videos a lot because they were super sexy.

823
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 2: But I recently read how like essentially a feminist defense

824
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: of those videos, and they pointed out that the people

825
00:42:45,719 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: who were the villains were people who are like sexually

826
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 2: harassing the three women in the Eliminator series and they

827
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,439
Speaker 2: would always get their come up and and zz top

828
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,400
Speaker 2: was always cheering for these three I guess muses or

829
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 2: Angels or whoever who would come out of the blue

830
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 2: and save the day.

831
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, angels and Fishnet hosts exactly. I don't know if

832
00:43:06,719 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: there was ever a group that was less likely to

833
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,120
Speaker 1: be MTV stars than zz top was.

834
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 2: They were saying that there was a quote where they

835
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: were like, you know, we had basically had our run

836
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 2: in rock.

837
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: Not even rock and roll, Texas Blues band exactly.

838
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,240
Speaker 2: I think it was this in like Texas Monthly maybe magazine,

839
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:29,680
Speaker 2: because yeah, they're from Texas, and then all of a sudden,

840
00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 2: because of these videos, because of MTV, they had a

841
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 2: brand new career essentially. And I think Billy Gibbons was

842
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:37,919
Speaker 2: the one who was quoter who said, like, we got

843
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 2: sixteen year old girls back as fans, you know, like so, yeah,

844
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 2: that's a really great point. They were extremely unlikely, and

845
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 2: that demonstrates the power of what MTV could do. If

846
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 2: you made a cool video people talked about, you could

847
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 2: have a brand new career on your hands.

848
00:43:52,920 --> 00:43:55,720
Speaker 1: I know, you want to shout out weird al somebody

849
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: that I've never been that into, but I was an

850
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:02,200
Speaker 1: MTV kid, so I definitely saw and generally had a

851
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 1: laugh with a lot of those videos.

852
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,800
Speaker 2: They were great. He apparently had ten specials on MTV

853
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 2: over the years called ALTV. But yeah, that was another

854
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 2: one too, like you'd be like, have you seen weird

855
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 2: El's like a surgeon video? Or I lost on Jeopardy.

856
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:19,439
Speaker 1: Yeah.

857
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 2: Stuff. And then one other one too that was a

858
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 2: really big video early on was the video for Fishheads

859
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 2: from Barnes and barn Do you remember that?

860
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I don't remember that being a very

861
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 1: big song or video at all. I thought it was

862
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: just noteworthy because it was Bill Paxton or was that

863
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: a big song?

864
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 2: I think it was one of those ones that made

865
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 2: people go watch MTV because it would come on sometimes. Okay,

866
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 2: I don't think it was like a huge hit or

867
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:48,359
Speaker 2: anything like that, but it was one of those one

868
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 2: of those early videos that drew you to MTV by

869
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 2: word of mouth.

870
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of like mc scatcat.

871
00:44:55,760 --> 00:44:58,880
Speaker 4: That's right, Paula abdul Yep, I remember that.

872
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,760
Speaker 2: Uh wait, wait, we're getting nostalgic. We failed.

873
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 1: I know, I know that failed a long time ago,

874
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 1: but we do have to mention the Hungry Like the

875
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: Wolf video from Duran Duran, because that was it certainly

876
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 1: wasn't the first, but that was maybe the best example

877
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:19,880
Speaker 1: of music video as like a very cinematic you know

878
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: where where all of a sudden it was like the

879
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: band was in a movie and it was like, it's

880
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: not like they weren't a big band before, but Hungry

881
00:45:29,239 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 1: Like the Wolf really put them over the top.

882
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, and just change the way that people

883
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 2: made videos too. They made a much more like it

884
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:38,760
Speaker 2: was a movie.

885
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, a pretty good one, I thought.

886
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:43,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and a good song too.

887
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: Should we take our second break here at minute forty seven? Yeah,

888
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:49,759
Speaker 1: all right, we'll be right back because there's plenty more

889
00:45:49,760 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 1: to talk about with MTV. So MTV was a pretty

890
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: big success in the mid eighties, obviously, so much so

891
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: that Turner Broadcasting TBS tried to compete with their cable

892
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: music channel I think the Country Music I'm sorry, the

893
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: cable Music channel CMC started around the same time. There

894
00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: were a lot of imitators, most of them fizzled out.

895
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,720
Speaker 1: I think the Turner one was bought out by MTV

896
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: for about a million bucks. But in nineteen eighty five,

897
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: Viacom Inc. Bought MTV from Warner, and leadership said, hey,

898
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,320
Speaker 1: why don't we stop just playing random videos and start

899
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: sort of bucketing this stuff, And all of a sudden

900
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: they had thematic shows like one hundred and twenty Minutes

901
00:46:58,360 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 1: and Headbanger's Ball and Yo MTV Raps and stuff like that.

902
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, one hundred and twenty minutes always has a

903
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 2: soft spot in my heart because you had to stay

904
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 2: up on Sunday night. It started Sunday night at midnight,

905
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 2: so technically it started Monday morning at midnight and ran

906
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 2: for one hundred and twenty minutes till two am. It's

907
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,440
Speaker 2: like the worst time slot in the history of time slots,

908
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 2: and yet that was the only place you could see

909
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 2: like Asusie in the Banchees video, or like Jesus and

910
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 2: Mary Chain or whoever. Like, that's the only place you

911
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 2: could see those videos, and it was worth staying up for.

912
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, the great Matt Pinfield shout out to him as

913
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: host Club MTV in nineteen eighty seven with Downtown Julie Brown.

914
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,919
Speaker 1: That was their dance show, their their sort of soul

915
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: trained American bandstand style show. I'd say just go listen

916
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 1: to the heavy metal episodes if you want to hear

917
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 1: more about head Banger's Ball, sure, but yo, MTV rap

918
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: started in nineteen eighty eight, and that was like run

919
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 1: DMC had been on thinking eighty four with rock Box.

920
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: But you o, MTV raps cannot be under or overestimated.

921
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: I guess as as what a role it played in

922
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: bringing hip hop and rap to the mainstream.

923
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if you want a new trivia question to

924
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,879
Speaker 2: replace the Buggles video Killed the Radio Star, the first

925
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 2: rap video played on your own TV raps was Shinehead's

926
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:22,720
Speaker 2: Chain Gang.

927
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 4: Oh okay, do you remember that one?

928
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: I don't not at all.

929
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: Actually, do you you know the sound of the men

930
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 2: working on the chain Gang?

931
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: Yeah? I know.

932
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 2: It's like a hip hop version of that. Oh okay,

933
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 2: it's good, go listen to it.

934
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 1: Yeah. They were also famous for banning some of these,

935
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 1: and again, you're going to get more attention by doing

936
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:46,479
Speaker 1: something like that. So Inwa had some of their stuff banned.

937
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 1: Public Enemy the Great Song By the Time I Get

938
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: to Arizona was banned in nineteen ninety one, and then

939
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: also one of my favorite shows was Unplugged, Oh, started

940
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine, where they did you know they

941
00:48:59,040 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: had bands in studio, live in concert doing you know,

942
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: acoustic numbers of their of their hits, and some of

943
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: the unplugged albums became just sort of iconic, legendary vinyl

944
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: LPs for those bands just because people had never heard

945
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: them that way before, like Nirvana and Oasis and stuff

946
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 1: like that.

947
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, yeah, I was like, I didn't really

948
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 2: ever watch them TV unplugged. I wasn't very aware of it,

949
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 2: now that you said that Rivana song, Yes, I remember now.

950
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, ari EM's was awesome, and you know, they had

951
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: some sort of obvious unplugged stuff like Bob Dylan and

952
00:49:35,120 --> 00:49:37,200
Speaker 1: Neil Young, but I think it was when the rock

953
00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: bands did it, is when it got the most attention

954
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 1: and was maybe at its best.

955
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 2: For sure, or Depeche Mode. So. One other thing that

956
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:50,359
Speaker 2: was huge, just huge, that started out as just some

957
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 2: small thing that they tried, was in nineteen eighty six,

958
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 2: Allen Hunter took everybody to Daytona Beach and they basically

959
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,960
Speaker 2: just covered spring Break. Yeah, and spring Break became an

960
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:04,640
Speaker 2: annual event on MTV for decades to come. It was

961
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 2: just a huge deal. Every spring Break was covered and

962
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 2: it was just people like doing shots or dancing or whatever,

963
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 2: like on the beach, playing volleyball. It was just all

964
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,640
Speaker 2: lame and dumb, but it was exactly the kind of

965
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:20,759
Speaker 2: thing you wanted to see if it was like April

966
00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 2: in Northern Ohio, because it didn't look like that outside

967
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 2: in April and Northern Ohio. So like it just brought

968
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 2: you down to the beach with all these beautiful people

969
00:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 2: and it was It was a great experience for sure.

970
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 2: And then that also kind of gave birth to Beach

971
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,399
Speaker 2: MTV or MTV Beach House later on, which they would

972
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 2: basically just rent a beach house and broadcast from there

973
00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 2: for the summer.

974
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: Yeah.

975
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just made summer summer, you know what I'm saying, like.

976
00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:48,760
Speaker 1: The official kickoff.

977
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, or like even like in the middle of summer,

978
00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 2: just seeing that in the morning, you know, getting ready

979
00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 2: to go hang out with friends because school was out.

980
00:50:57,200 --> 00:50:59,959
Speaker 2: It just it made it was like a punctuation mark

981
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,480
Speaker 2: for summer. It just made it more of a summer

982
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 2: to me.

983
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I totally agree. MTV News was another

984
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,120
Speaker 1: non music show that's kind of where we're headed in

985
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:12,319
Speaker 1: this segment, and it was a very big deal. I

986
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: remember that they had a very iconic intro to with

987
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: the typewriter spelling out MTV News and that sound that

988
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:23,880
Speaker 1: it made. Yeah, do that louder, You just did it great, Well,

989
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:29,040
Speaker 1: your first try was better. Kurt Loader, though, was a

990
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: veteran rock journalist and he was sort of the main

991
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 1: face in nineteen eighty seven. But you know they also

992
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,520
Speaker 1: had like Chris Connolly ended up being the movie guy.

993
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: He was the MTV news guy for a while. I

994
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: had many many crushes via MTV News, like Tabitha Soren

995
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: and Serena alt Schole, and even a little bit of Kennedy.

996
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kennedy. Remember Duffy?

997
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: Oh, I remember Duffy. She lived in a friend of

998
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: mine's building in New York and the Greenwich Village in

999
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: the mid nineties, and I saw in the elevator once

1000
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: and almost passed out.

1001
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 2: I'll bet I think the one who could top them

1002
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:06,440
Speaker 2: all though, was Daisy Flinn Taste.

1003
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I forgot about her, jay Zy Flints.

1004
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 2: Daisy Taste. So anyway, moving on, there was a game

1005
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:18,560
Speaker 2: show on MTV for I think just like a year

1006
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 2: maybe called Remote Control came on in nineteen eighty seven,

1007
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 2: and if anyone asks you what MTV's first regular non

1008
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 2: music programming was it was Remote Control and I loved

1009
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 2: Remote Control me too.

1010
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,040
Speaker 1: It had to be more than a year because ken

1011
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:38,720
Speaker 1: Ober was the host, unless they just replaced the host midyear,

1012
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 1: which I don't remember because another crush Kry Wererer, took

1013
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 1: over for ken Ober at a certain point. But Remote

1014
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: Control was very funny and a great game show for

1015
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 1: people our age, and to me, it was most noteworthy

1016
00:52:53,360 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 1: as launching the careers of Colin Quinn, yes, who was

1017
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: the sidekick, and a young Adam Sandler and Dennis got

1018
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:01,040
Speaker 1: their start there.

1019
00:53:01,239 --> 00:53:03,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were both writers and then Adam Sandler also

1020
00:53:03,880 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 2: played some early characters, one of which was stud Boy.

1021
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 2: But it was great. I had one of the all

1022
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 2: time best sets of not just any game show, but

1023
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:16,760
Speaker 2: any TV show. It was set in Kenover's parents' basement

1024
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 2: and it was all about all the questions were about

1025
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 2: TV and TV history and stuff. It was really wonderful.

1026
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,440
Speaker 2: Like the people the players played from recliners and if

1027
00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 2: I remember correctly, if you were if you lost you

1028
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:31,920
Speaker 2: like the recliner went sailing backwards through the woods. So

1029
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 2: that was a show.

1030
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's funny. I haven't I didn't watch any clips,

1031
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:39,200
Speaker 1: but in my brain it just popped into my head.

1032
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: The intro was something like, uh, I wasn't like the

1033
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:44,320
Speaker 1: other kids or something like that.

1034
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:48,440
Speaker 2: Okay, it was Kenny wasn't like the other kids. T mattered, nothing,

1035
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,600
Speaker 2: nothing else that. The girls said yes, but he said no.

1036
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 2: Now he's got his own game show.

1037
00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: Do you remember that or did you look that up?

1038
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:58,319
Speaker 2: I remembered it. I did not look up a word

1039
00:53:58,360 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 2: of that.

1040
00:53:59,000 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: That's so funny.

1041
00:53:59,719 --> 00:53:59,839
Speaker 3: Man.

1042
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: I knew there was something there about not being like

1043
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: the other kids.

1044
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:05,719
Speaker 2: Because yeah, he just wanted to watch TV. So now

1045
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:07,399
Speaker 2: he has a game show about TV.

1046
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 1: House of Style nineteen eighty nine fashion show hosted by

1047
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:14,800
Speaker 1: Cindy Crawford was huge as far as comedy goes. It

1048
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:20,680
Speaker 1: turns out beyond remote control being very funny, they launched

1049
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:24,400
Speaker 1: like they were sneakily. One of the great comedy incubators

1050
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 1: of the eighties. I feel like yeah and nineties, Yeah, yeah,

1051
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: into the nineties because The State the great To me,

1052
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,120
Speaker 1: the best sketch show of all time was The State.

1053
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: Oh Yeah, from ninety four to ninety five on MTV.

1054
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: The Ben Stiller Show in nineteen ninety was amazing and

1055
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:42,480
Speaker 1: very Underseen and Underrated?

1056
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:43,800
Speaker 2: Did you watch that when it was on?

1057
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: Oh?

1058
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I did not.

1059
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was into all of that.

1060
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 2: I went So that launched Jane Garoffalo, Bob Odenkirk, David Cross,

1061
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,080
Speaker 2: Judd Apatow, Andy Dick for Better or Worse, Ben Stiller

1062
00:54:56,120 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 2: obviously because before that he was just Jerry Stiller's kid. Yeah,

1063
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,799
Speaker 2: and this was where he introduced himself to the world.

1064
00:55:03,960 --> 00:55:06,120
Speaker 2: And we have Severance thanks to the show, So thanks

1065
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 2: a lot, MTV. But it also brought together Bob Odenkirk

1066
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 2: and David Cross, yeah, with Dinos Demettopoulos, who was also

1067
00:55:14,640 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 2: a writer on the show, with them, and they went

1068
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:19,080
Speaker 2: on to make a mister Show.

1069
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: Now that actually might be my favorite sketch show.

1070
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:24,000
Speaker 2: I think so too. But there I went back, so

1071
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:25,879
Speaker 2: I was like, I haven't seen a second of this show,

1072
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 2: and I found a great sketch with Bob Odenkirk as

1073
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 2: Charles Manson. Yeah, yeah, but Charles Manson is Lassie. It's

1074
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 2: like a black and white parody of Lassie, but rather

1075
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 2: than Lassie the dog, it's Charles Manson who's like the

1076
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:41,959
Speaker 2: family dog, but he's just saying crazy stuff. And Bob

1077
00:55:42,040 --> 00:55:44,400
Speaker 2: Ogenkirk does a perfect Charles Manson.

1078
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 1: It's so good and that's where Ben Siler started doing

1079
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:52,839
Speaker 1: the Tom Cruise impressions. And yeah, such a good show,

1080
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: even though I wasn't into it, we have to talk

1081
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 1: about totally Polly.

1082
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:57,399
Speaker 2: Sure.

1083
00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 1: Polly's show ran for five year or so. It was

1084
00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: actually a pretty big hit, The Oiz. Yeah, The Wiz

1085
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:06,520
Speaker 1: and then one of my favorites, which got you know,

1086
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,040
Speaker 1: NTB had such good programming for a while there with

1087
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 1: these other shows Liquid Television in nineteen ninety one, ten

1088
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:16,279
Speaker 1: years at least before Adult Swim came on, you could

1089
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: be a kid that was watching this crazy, weird, experimental

1090
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 1: animation on television.

1091
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:24,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, liquid television. Right, did you watch a Flux?

1092
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: I loved aon Flex. It was mind blowing.

1093
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:29,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you've never seen am Flex, this is like

1094
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 2: a decade before Adult Swim came out. And this was

1095
00:56:31,840 --> 00:56:33,839
Speaker 2: not a time like there weren't such a thing as

1096
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 2: cartoons for adults. You had to basically watch heavy metal

1097
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,120
Speaker 2: over and over again. Yeah, maybe Akira or something like that.

1098
00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 2: This was like a cavalcade, a showcase of adult, weird, bizarre,

1099
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:50,799
Speaker 2: hilarious cartoons. And it's actually where Beavis and butt Head

1100
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:53,840
Speaker 2: got its start. Therefore, where Mike Judge got his start,

1101
00:56:55,160 --> 00:56:57,680
Speaker 2: A on Flex was super cool and in addition to

1102
00:56:57,760 --> 00:56:59,920
Speaker 2: just kind of launching some careers, it just laid the

1103
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:04,760
Speaker 2: groundwork and showed that there's a huge appetite for people

1104
00:57:04,880 --> 00:57:09,879
Speaker 2: who are no longer in high school, who really love pot,

1105
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:13,919
Speaker 2: maybe ascid a little bit and watch TV, are willing

1106
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:17,320
Speaker 2: to stay up late to watch cartoons. This, this showed

1107
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 2: that they were out there.

1108
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1109
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:23,240
Speaker 1: I didn't know until today that the animated show Daria

1110
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: was a spin off of Beavis and butt Head, that

1111
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,920
Speaker 1: Daria was a character briefly on that show until you

1112
00:57:28,120 --> 00:57:28,720
Speaker 1: pointed that out.

1113
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was one of their classmates at high school.

1114
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Daria was big. We can't, you know, we're

1115
00:57:34,680 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: running so long, we can't like dive into all these

1116
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,680
Speaker 1: but we have to at least mention shows like Jackass

1117
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: and Cribs. Yeah, and then the birth of reality TV

1118
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,960
Speaker 1: eventually with stuff like The Osbourne's and Jersey Shore and Punked.

1119
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,640
Speaker 1: But it all got started in nineteen ninety two with

1120
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: the Real World, which I mean clearly. I mean, you know,

1121
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: there was the seventies PBS show and American Family, but

1122
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:02,920
Speaker 1: as far as the teenagers watching stuff Reality TV. I

1123
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 1: feel like was birth with the real world.

1124
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:09,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can make a case. My hypothesis is

1125
00:58:09,880 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 2: that you could trace pretty much every problem that we

1126
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 2: have with the world today back to Reality TV, and

1127
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 2: ergo back to the real world.

1128
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 1: That show is really good for a while. I will

1129
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: I stand behind the real world. I don't remember what season.

1130
00:58:28,200 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: I feel like it really jumped the shark, but I

1131
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:31,880
Speaker 1: know that there are a lot of people that say

1132
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 1: it was the year that they somebody got in the

1133
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: shower with somebody else and it became really just sort

1134
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,280
Speaker 1: of like people were getting on there just because they

1135
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:42,120
Speaker 1: knew they could be famous. But I feel like it

1136
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 1: had a more pure intent before that, as a kind

1137
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 1: of a weird social experiment.

1138
00:58:46,760 --> 00:58:49,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, it wasn't the show itself that was problematic.

1139
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 2: It was the foundation that it created, the legacy it created.

1140
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.

1141
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:57,760
Speaker 2: Because I mean, if you like reality TV, great, good

1142
00:58:57,840 --> 00:58:59,600
Speaker 2: on you. I'm glad that it's out there for you.

1143
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:05,560
Speaker 2: But it wrecked TV until the streamers came along. Like,

1144
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 2: if you liked a written, scripted show, ts for you.

1145
00:59:09,680 --> 00:59:13,080
Speaker 2: Because everyone went all in on reality for years and

1146
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,040
Speaker 2: years and years. You had to basically get a subscription

1147
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 2: to HBO to watch like a decent TV show for

1148
00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:23,200
Speaker 2: a long time because reality TV got so popular and

1149
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 2: it was so cheap to make.

1150
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, I don't want people to get mad

1151
00:59:28,760 --> 00:59:32,840
Speaker 1: if we don't mention Carson Daily and TRL. This was

1152
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:35,600
Speaker 1: in the sort of days where I was fading out

1153
00:59:35,640 --> 00:59:39,400
Speaker 1: of MTV, so I wasn't as into it. But Carson

1154
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:42,360
Speaker 1: Daily did a fine job on Total Request Live. And

1155
00:59:43,040 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 1: I'm also a big fan of the great Dave Holmes,

1156
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,840
Speaker 1: who's a really good dude in real life and does

1157
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: some great things.

1158
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 2: He says, was he on Total Request Live?

1159
00:59:51,240 --> 00:59:53,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if he took over for Carson

1160
00:59:53,280 --> 00:59:57,840
Speaker 1: Daily or sort of pinch hitter or sometimes sometimes, but

1161
00:59:58,080 --> 00:59:59,480
Speaker 1: I know he was definitely one of the hosts.

1162
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,400
Speaker 2: So a lot of people are like, what's this MTV

1163
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:05,640
Speaker 2: you're talking about? And there's a good reason for that.

1164
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:09,560
Speaker 2: And the reason why is because MTV just started to

1165
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 2: die a thousand deaths by new channels and networks coming on.

1166
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 3: Like that.

1167
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:19,880
Speaker 2: It would made a big decision when it went to

1168
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:24,280
Speaker 2: half hour shows or non music shows, even in part because,

1169
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:28,480
Speaker 2: as was explained later, if you are watching MTV in

1170
01:00:28,560 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 2: its original form. You're like, you have no control whatsoever

1171
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,000
Speaker 2: on what's going to come up next. And I remember

1172
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 2: doing this quite clearly. You'd be watching a perfectly good

1173
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,840
Speaker 2: winger video and then all of a sudden comes, I

1174
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 2: don't know, some terrible video. I'm not going to call

1175
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 2: out anybody's favorite artists, and you would just immediately turn

1176
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 2: the channel because you knew you could turn back in

1177
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 2: three minutes and see what else was next. And they

1178
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 2: just got bled by that, and they found that half

1179
01:00:56,640 --> 01:01:00,320
Speaker 2: hour shows kept you in longer, and if those shows

1180
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 2: weren't made up of music videos but an actual narrative

1181
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 2: over the course of a half an hour, they lost

1182
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 2: less and less viewers. And so it just became sensible

1183
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 2: for them to get away from music. But fear not,

1184
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:14,680
Speaker 2: because they said, if you still want music videos, don't worry,

1185
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:16,680
Speaker 2: we will have you covered for the rest of your

1186
01:01:16,720 --> 01:01:18,120
Speaker 2: life with MTV two.

1187
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: That's right. MTV two launched in nineteen ninety six. It

1188
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,600
Speaker 1: was like, Hey, it's just gonna be music videos. We

1189
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 1: Pinky swears. Less than ten years later, it was mostly

1190
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: reality shows and not music videos. YouTube really sealed the

1191
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: fate because you could just watch any music video ever

1192
01:01:38,200 --> 01:01:41,320
Speaker 1: by just typing it in your search bar on YouTube

1193
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 1: like don Style. Yeah, and yeah, I mean I watch

1194
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:48,320
Speaker 1: music videos. There's still a show I can't remember what

1195
01:01:48,320 --> 01:01:51,680
Speaker 1: it's called that I see on Hulu that just runs

1196
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:53,880
Speaker 1: music videos. So I'll put that on sometimes if I'm

1197
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: like folding laundry, hmm, okay, for nostalgia. It's kind of nice.

1198
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,600
Speaker 2: If you go on MTV still around I believe MTV

1199
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 2: two is still around two, there is a ninety eight

1200
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,920
Speaker 2: point seven five percent chance that you will find an

1201
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:14,240
Speaker 2: episode of Ridiculousness playing. Yeah, it's been It carries MTV

1202
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 2: almost single handedly. It's a it's a show where they

1203
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 2: just basically put together hilarious clips. It's like it's like

1204
01:02:24,040 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 2: America's funniest home videos for nihilists and skateboarders basically, right, Yeah,

1205
01:02:29,120 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 2: and it's a good little show. You remember our friend

1206
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 2: Hampton Yaut who was in one of our variety shows.

1207
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: In LA That's the only reason I know about Ridiculousness.

1208
01:02:38,120 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 2: Yep, he was one of the writers on ridiculous This

1209
01:02:40,080 --> 01:02:43,240
Speaker 2: is a cute little show, but it has propped up

1210
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:47,240
Speaker 2: MTV so much that it's been on for fourteen years.

1211
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:53,439
Speaker 2: Since twenty eleven, yet somehow it is in season forty five. Wow,

1212
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:58,439
Speaker 2: that's how many episodes they crank out to keep MTV going.

1213
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 2: So hats off to Rob dry Deck.

1214
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: It's the House Hunters of a TV.

1215
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:04,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, essentially for sure.

1216
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:06,960
Speaker 1: Well, before we leave, I do want to quickly kind

1217
01:03:07,000 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 1: of mention the MTV contests. If you were a kid

1218
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:14,160
Speaker 1: in the eighties, they had these crazy, crazy contests that

1219
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: you could enter and they always seem to kind of

1220
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 1: want to one up the last as far as what

1221
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:20,360
Speaker 1: they would do. Yeah, and they were I mean it

1222
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:23,880
Speaker 1: was like, you know, you can win bon Jovi's childhood home,

1223
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,440
Speaker 1: you can win a pink house from John Mellencamp or

1224
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:31,520
Speaker 1: John Cougar at the time in his small town or whatever.

1225
01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:35,919
Speaker 1: But they were crazy. There was one very famous story

1226
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: of the party with Van Halen for two days, and

1227
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: this was in nineteen eighty four, and this I was

1228
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:43,440
Speaker 1: about to say, poor guy, it's probably the best thing

1229
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:46,680
Speaker 1: that ever happened to him. This guy named Kurt Jeffries

1230
01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: has a legendary story of basically like they took it seriously.

1231
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 1: They weren't like, hey, let's just kind of get this

1232
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:54,880
Speaker 1: kid in here and whatever. Signed something like they partied

1233
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:58,280
Speaker 1: with them. They got him drunk and gave him cocaine

1234
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 1: and got a groupie to have sex with him in

1235
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 1: a bathroom, and like he did the whole rock star thing.

1236
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 1: Van Halen was very intent, Like apparently he woke up

1237
01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,680
Speaker 1: on day two and was like, I can't I've got

1238
01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: to go home. And Alex van Halen was like shoving

1239
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:16,800
Speaker 1: a beer in a space and was like, you've got

1240
01:04:16,880 --> 01:04:17,640
Speaker 1: to do this, dude.

1241
01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 2: He said, you can't leave the spot until you drink

1242
01:04:19,760 --> 01:04:23,960
Speaker 2: that beer. And it was this it was a tall boy. Yeah. Yeah,

1243
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:25,880
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, after you rattle all that off,

1244
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 2: that that was just day one.

1245
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was day one. There was a day two

1246
01:04:30,600 --> 01:04:31,040
Speaker 1: and this was.

1247
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 2: This was a sponsored contest by MTV.

1248
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:36,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no way you could do that so these

1249
01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 1: days obviously, but they had a bunch of those, like,

1250
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:40,720
Speaker 1: you know, party with the band. I know that the

1251
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 1: police had a sort of a disaster of a contest

1252
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,240
Speaker 1: where they were supposed to fly on their private jet

1253
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:49,120
Speaker 1: with the band, and I think that went all pear shaped.

1254
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 1: I remember very clearly Madonna had a contest that you

1255
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: at home could make the video for True Blue, and

1256
01:04:56,800 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 1: I just remember seeing like bad homemade video after a

1257
01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 1: bad homemade video of True Blue, over and over and

1258
01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:07,560
Speaker 1: over again, just so I could vote via phone. Yeah,

1259
01:05:07,720 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 1: the contests, those are a lot of fun. There are

1260
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 1: a lot more kind of fun ones. There's a kind

1261
01:05:11,440 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 1: of a cool page six article that covers some of

1262
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:15,680
Speaker 1: the wackier contests they had.

1263
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is definitely worth three And thanks for sending

1264
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:21,520
Speaker 2: that to me. Oh, chuck, you got anything else?

1265
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:24,960
Speaker 1: No, I mean we missed a ton, So it's just

1266
01:05:25,040 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 1: kind of one of those episodes you tried to stuff

1267
01:05:26,680 --> 01:05:27,640
Speaker 1: as much as we could in here.

1268
01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:30,439
Speaker 2: Yep, and keep an ero for VH one, which should

1269
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 2: be following this one right after right.

1270
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I said we skip listener mail even it's been

1271
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 1: so long, and just say go with God, go watch

1272
01:05:39,040 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: some music videos.

1273
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, everybody's tired. Tick the day off, everybody exactly. If

1274
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 2: you want to send us an email, you can send

1275
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 2: it off to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff

1276
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 2: you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio.

1277
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1278
01:05:58,480 --> 01:06:01,360
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherevery you listen to your favorite shows.

1279
01:06:07,600 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 1: M