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Speaker 1: Hi.

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Speaker 2: I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist,

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Speaker 2: and speaker.

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Speaker 3: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician,

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Speaker 3: writer and course creator. We are two working parents who

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Speaker 3: love our careers and our families.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about

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Speaker 2: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun.

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Speaker 2: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long.

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Speaker 1: Term career goals.

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Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. This

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Speaker 1: episode is.

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Speaker 2: Airing in early June of twenty twenty five. Sarah is

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Speaker 2: going to be interviewing Vanessa Quickly, who is the founder

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Speaker 2: of Chatbooks, which I know is something a lot of

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Speaker 2: our listeners have used as part of their memory keeping

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Speaker 2: in the modern era. Vanessa will talk about starting a

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Speaker 2: company all that goes into that. She also has seven kids,

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Speaker 2: so definitely living the best of both worlds lifestyle there.

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Speaker 2: So Sarah, let's talk about your photo lifestyle right now.

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Speaker 1: What are you hunting photos? What are you doing with

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Speaker 1: your fool photos?

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Speaker 3: And I also wanted to mention, like other memory keeping

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Speaker 3: maybe because.

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Speaker 4: I want credit for something.

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Speaker 3: So when it comes to like physical items that I

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Speaker 3: want to keep, and they're not many of them, but

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Speaker 3: like of the kids, so that rare piece of artwork

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Speaker 3: that you're like, oh, or like that Mother's Day thing

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Speaker 3: that was so creative that you just like want I

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Speaker 3: do have. This was inspired by Gretchen Rubin, but I

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Speaker 3: got like Banker's boxes for each kid. Actually correction, I

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Speaker 3: have two Bankers Boxes for three kids because Cameron and

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Speaker 3: Genevieve are sharing a box, because that's what happens.

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Speaker 4: But that's okay.

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Speaker 3: It's worked out so far, and I would say I

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Speaker 3: put like two to three things per year per kid

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Speaker 3: in there, so it's like really sparing. But I think

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Speaker 3: that's going to be really fun when they're done and

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Speaker 3: I can hand them these folders or I can keep

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Speaker 3: them and they can look at them, because like the

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Speaker 3: goal is not to have a giant pie, like it's

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Speaker 3: very space limited, but it's kind of fun to have

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Speaker 3: some actual artifacts. And I don't mean artifacts like hair.

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Speaker 3: These are all like pieces of paper.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say, does Annabelle have more of an

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Speaker 2: artistic output than the other two or it's just that

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Speaker 2: they were younger.

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Speaker 3: No, it's just that they're younger, so they're going to

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Speaker 3: each need their own box eventually. But because Genevieve's really

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Speaker 3: only been like in school and making things for a

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Speaker 3: few years, I'm shoving them in the back of Cameron's

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Speaker 3: box right now, but ultimately she'll get her own box.

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Speaker 3: And then in terms of our photos, so in theory

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Speaker 3: we print out photo books, but my last one is

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Speaker 3: from twenty twenty one, so maybe we don't print out

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Speaker 3: photo books. However, I am still thinking there was hope

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Speaker 3: for catching up, and I used to do one per

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Speaker 3: year via Shutterfly. I did the super easy version where

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Speaker 3: I just like told it to AI auto do it

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Speaker 3: and then I would like make slight adjustments. But I

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Speaker 3: didn't put a lot of work into it. The hard

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Speaker 3: part for me has always been the curation of like

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Speaker 3: which photos will go in there, and I could put

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Speaker 3: a kid to work on that task. I am well aware,

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Speaker 3: so I think we may catch up someday. And then

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Speaker 3: the other thing has been that I just do the

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Speaker 3: auto upload thing. We use Google Photos. Both my husband's

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Speaker 3: pictures and mine auto upload to there, and it's great.

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Speaker 3: I mean the other day, Laura, I was like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I want to go to this restaurant with Josh.

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Speaker 4: Did I go there with somebody? And I was like,

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Speaker 4: I think it was Laura, And.

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Speaker 3: I looked up I found the transaction in You Need

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Speaker 3: a Budget, I saw which day it was, looked up

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Speaker 3: the day, and then found a picture of us holding

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Speaker 3: drinks at this restaurant.

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Speaker 4: It was awesome. That's awesome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Google Photos is great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, It's a lot more searchable now than it used

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Speaker 1: to be.

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Speaker 2: I mean I've had the like, Okay, I store my

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Speaker 2: passports in a place in the house that is not

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Speaker 2: near my desk, and so then I've had to enter

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Speaker 2: information for a few things recently. But I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: I have a picture of it on my phone and

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Speaker 2: so then you know, I'm like, well, who knows when

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Speaker 2: I took that picture. But all I do is like

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Speaker 2: Laura passport, search for that and it comes up right, like,

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Speaker 2: I mean, it knows what that is, which is great, so,

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Speaker 2: you know, useful. But anyway, yeah, I have I have

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Speaker 2: a lot of photos on my phone that are just

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Speaker 2: sitting there, and I pay for extra storage because I

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Speaker 2: don't really feel it going through and deleting stuff.

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Speaker 1: We do have photo books from just about every year.

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Speaker 2: I think we're at I do think we got to

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. I'm not sure that twenty twenty four

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Speaker 2: has been created yet. But the key in recent years

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Speaker 2: has been having Ruth take over this project. She has

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Speaker 2: access to my photos through my Apple account that is

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Speaker 2: also running her iPad, so it has not even been

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Speaker 2: a problem for her to just go through them and

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Speaker 2: put them directly into a Shutterfly and make a book.

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Speaker 2: So I've strongly encouraged that. But you know, we do

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Speaker 2: and I got to say, obviously people take lots of

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Speaker 2: photos on their phones. I will still put a plug

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Speaker 2: for paying a professional photographer to take real portraits of

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Speaker 2: your family. We've done this pretty much almost every year

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Speaker 2: with a couple of different photographers whose work we like

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Speaker 2: around here, and I.

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Speaker 1: Am so happy to have them.

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Speaker 2: I mean, partly, it's just then look nice on our

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Speaker 2: Christmas card photos. It doesn't look like you know, I

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Speaker 2: just randomly took it in the kitchen while everyone was

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Speaker 2: sitting there. But then we have printed them up nicer

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Speaker 2: and framed them. We have a photo wall, like a

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Speaker 2: gallery of all the kids. They have a big formal

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Speaker 2: portrait of all this. It's just good to have. I

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Speaker 2: don't know, I like it. I like seeing the photo.

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Speaker 3: We did that last Thanksgiving with my parents and sister.

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Speaker 3: And I will say actually, the bigger the group is,

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Speaker 3: the more affordable it can be, because if you're in

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Speaker 3: a big family but you want like smaller family portraits,

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Speaker 3: you're generally paying for the photographer's time and you can

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Speaker 3: get a lot of pictures taken if you assemble a

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Speaker 3: decent group, and then you can kind of share the costs.

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Speaker 3: So obviously, also photographer's rates very widely. If you want

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Speaker 3: some well known person, you're probably going to be paying

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Speaker 3: a premium. But I found that this there's like a

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Speaker 3: gig economy in photos, and you can get some really

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Speaker 3: great artistic photos taken for not a ton of money.

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Speaker 2: And this can also be a great gift, like for

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Speaker 2: a grandparent, if you are getting together as a family,

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Speaker 2: for instance, at some point this summer, like you're gonna

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Speaker 2: all each other at a wedding or at a graduation

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Speaker 2: or some sort of outdoor party that you're having, if

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Speaker 2: you hire a photographer to come and take photos of everyone,

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Speaker 2: this can be a wonderful thing to give to, especially

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Speaker 2: older adults who don't really need anything like this is

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Speaker 2: something that they might want. I will say, you have

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Speaker 2: to prepare everyone ahead of time for this, and because

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Speaker 2: people often don't want to stop what they're doing in

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Speaker 2: the middle of a party to pose for formal photos,

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Speaker 2: to just make sure everyone knows that they will need

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Speaker 2: to be taking thirty minutes out of the fund to

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Speaker 2: do this. But the memories are great, you know, It's

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Speaker 2: a small price to pay for being able to look

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Speaker 2: back on it forever. All right, Well, let's see what

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Speaker 2: Vanessa has to say about photos and memory keeping in general.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm so excited to welcome to the show Vanessa Quickly,

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Speaker 3: the creator of chatbooks, a product a company that many

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Speaker 3: of you guys know and love. But just in case

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Speaker 3: you are not familiar with our chat books, go ahead

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Speaker 3: and introduce yourself.

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Speaker 5: I hope many people know and love it. Yeah, my

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Speaker 5: name is Vanessa. I am a mother. I have seven

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Speaker 5: kids and two grandkids. I'm the oldest of twelve, so

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Speaker 5: big families of kind of my thing. I love a

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Speaker 5: lot of chaos and creativity and all that comes with

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Speaker 5: having a big family. Started the company ten years ago

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Speaker 5: because in all that chaos of phrasing kids and having

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Speaker 5: babies at breakneck speed. I had gotten behind to my

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Speaker 5: scrap booking. I was the scrapbook mom with my oldest

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Speaker 5: and my youngest was going off to kindergarten without a

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Speaker 5: single printed photo besides the annual Christmas card. And so

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Speaker 5: chat Books is a solution to that problem that I have,

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Speaker 5: and I've been building it for the last ten Oh man,

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Speaker 5: we're going on eleven years now with my husband and

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Speaker 5: it's been a wild, wild ride.

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Speaker 3: That is amazing. So where exactly, because you have seven

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Speaker 3: kids and you sort of mentioned how all the oldest

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Speaker 3: was like, where were you and your parent journey when

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Speaker 3: you decided to start a brand new company.

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Speaker 5: Well, my oldest had started his freshman year of college

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Speaker 5: and my youngest was going to kindergarten. So quite the

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Speaker 5: range there, And if I'm being honest, there were years

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Speaker 5: before we started Chatbooks that my husband had been trying

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Speaker 5: to build a company to solve like helping families hold

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Speaker 5: on to organize and enjoy their family memories. He has

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Speaker 5: a career in building enterprise software and was kind of

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Speaker 5: tackling the problem from that lens. And we basically drained

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Speaker 5: our savings trying.

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Speaker 1: To build a solution.

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Speaker 5: From a guy's point of view when we all know

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Speaker 5: it's the mom's right, the chief household officer that is

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Speaker 5: doing most of the memory keeping, and so I don't

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Speaker 5: have the Harvard MBA. But I finally spoke up and

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Speaker 5: I'm like, I don't think this is going to work.

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Speaker 5: I'm not using it, my friends aren't using it, my

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Speaker 5: sisters aren't using it.

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Speaker 1: Will you just figure.

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Speaker 5: Out how to print my photos? And so with that

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Speaker 5: idea came like a volunteer to join the founding company

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Speaker 5: and build this business, even though I had no background

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Speaker 5: in business at all, but I was very passionate about

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Speaker 5: the problem to be solved.

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Speaker 4: That is awesome.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, slight parallel here because your age

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Speaker 3: spread of your kids is almost exactly the same as Laura,

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Speaker 3: my co host. She's got a five year old and

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Speaker 3: then headed off to college as her oldest, so kind

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Speaker 3: of similar on the up of seven and she has five, so.

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Speaker 5: No, hey, it's all the same after three, it's a blur.

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Speaker 3: So I can only imagine since I only have three.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 3: I also read a little bit about your background before

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Speaker 3: all this and found it, well, maybe not equally fascinating

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Speaker 3: because I want to hear more about like the whole,

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Speaker 3: like what it was like to start a company from

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Speaker 3: the ground up with all those kids in various ages.

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Speaker 3: But you also had an unusual upbringing. In fact, there

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Speaker 3: was an article that I think was part of your

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Speaker 3: preskitt that said why growing up weird can be good

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Speaker 3: for your career. So, Vanessa, how did you grow up

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Speaker 3: weird and was it good for your career? Well?

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Speaker 5: I mentioned I'm the oldest of twelve kids, and we

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Speaker 5: grew up in Orlando, Florida, and we right now live

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Speaker 5: in Utah, and Utah historically has been known for big families,

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Speaker 5: and in Utah, I mean in Florida. Though like twelve kids,

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Speaker 5: we were freak shows. We were in the newspaper at

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Speaker 5: least once a year doing an article on some aspect

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Speaker 5: of like me my mom being supermom, or we had

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Speaker 5: like a gentleman's farm in our backyard and a pine

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Speaker 5: tree nursery. My dad had got my got going so

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Speaker 5: that my brothers could help have actually have a healthy

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Speaker 5: outlet for all of that big boy energy, but also

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Speaker 5: to help raise money for college. I came from a

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Speaker 5: wildly entrepreneurial family, and my mother, who was the primary

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Speaker 5: caregiver for the twelve kids. She was so creative. She

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Speaker 5: was an artist, she was a script she would write plays.

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Speaker 5: She constantly built dream up business plans like that's what

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Speaker 5: she would do. So I was like a coping mechanism.

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Speaker 4: For the twelve kids.

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Speaker 5: It was like just wild creativity and imagining like other worlds.

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Speaker 5: But I think all of the experiences with growing up

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Speaker 5: with a big family, where like we didn't fit the mold,

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Speaker 5: anything was possible, dreaming big, like even when we already

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Speaker 5: had a lot of big things going on. All of

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Speaker 5: that fed into this idea when I left home at

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Speaker 5: eighteen that I can literally do anything that I set

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Speaker 5: my mind to. And when I left home, I wanted

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Speaker 5: to be an opera singer. I love to sing, and

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Speaker 5: my parents always told me that I had a really

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Speaker 5: nice voice, and so of course I'm going to go

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Speaker 5: off and be a famous singer. I actually thought I

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Speaker 5: would be on Broadway, like that's really what I wanted

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Speaker 5: to do. I had never seen an opera. I had

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Speaker 5: been to a few Broadway shows, and I was like,

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Speaker 5: that is a life for me up on the stage.

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Speaker 5: And again my parents were just like feeding me into this,

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Speaker 5: like you can do anything, and you're so wildly talented.

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Speaker 5: And so I went off to college, but I was

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Speaker 5: didn't really understand how my university broke up the programs.

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Speaker 5: There's like a strict music theater tracked and a strict

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Speaker 5: classical music tract. And I just auditioned for the first

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Speaker 5: flyer that I saw for singers, and I ended up

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Speaker 5: in this opera tract. And after I'd realized what had

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Speaker 5: happened and it was too late to drop the class,

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Speaker 5: I stuck with it that semester, and my like world changed.

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Speaker 5: I fell in love with opera music at all of

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Speaker 5: the new challenges that come with that repertoire and technique.

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Speaker 5: And so yeah, how did growing up weird in Florida

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Speaker 5: with twelve kids and a cow that we would milk,

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Speaker 5: and horses and the pine tree nursery and collecting snakes

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Speaker 5: and all of that that was part of my child?

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Speaker 5: How did that lead me to where I am today?

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Speaker 5: I think just I like taking risks. I'm not intimidated

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Speaker 5: by fear. Actually fear excites me. And I've learned as

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Speaker 5: I've my career has evolved, and as I've been raising

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Speaker 5: all of these kids through every wild phase of motherhood

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Speaker 5: that when things are scary, it usually means there's something

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Speaker 5: exciting or some growth that's on the other side.

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Speaker 3: So super interesting, that's all right, I feel like I'm

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Speaker 3: hearing it's like you never fit the mold. Your family

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Speaker 3: didn't fit the mold, and it was okay, So like

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Speaker 3: why I aim to fit the mold to begin with?

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Speaker 4: So kind of like your possibilities are limitless, right.

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Speaker 5: And being different was something that I felt like was

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Speaker 5: a badge of honor. So the first house that we

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Speaker 5: bought after my husband finished his graduate school, we lived

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Speaker 5: in a neighborhood with a lot of families that looked

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Speaker 5: a lot like ours, and moms that were staying at

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Speaker 5: home with their kids. And I just was like, if

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Speaker 5: I have to sit in the basement and play Little

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Speaker 5: Pet Shop for the rest of my life, I will die.

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Speaker 5: I cannot do this. And so I was the first

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Speaker 5: to kind of start going back to work. Like I said,

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Speaker 5: I was a singer and I had kind of hung

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Speaker 5: up the dream of being an international opera singer when

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Speaker 5: I found out I was pregnant with my first baby

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Speaker 5: as a junior in college. Really hard to have an

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Speaker 5: international opera career and a young family. But I kept

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Speaker 5: up this and after my fifth child was born, I,

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Speaker 5: with the encouragement of my husband, went out for an

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Speaker 5: audition for a Vida and I was cast in that

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Speaker 5: show as the mistress and on the dance core, and

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Speaker 5: so I got to leave the house every afternoon to

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Speaker 5: go to rehearsal for months, and then the show ran

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Speaker 5: for three months, and it was like insane trying to

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Speaker 5: coordinate the five kids and my husband's startup schedule and

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Speaker 5: all the babysitters and all the help and we had

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Speaker 5: a lot of Hamburger helper during the run of that show.

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Speaker 5: But I came alive again being able to do this

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Speaker 5: thing that I felt born to do, that I had

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Speaker 5: a passion for and unique talents for. And I actually

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Speaker 5: felt like I was a better mother, a better friend,

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Speaker 5: a better wife because I was nurturing this part of

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Speaker 5: me that had been neglected for so long.

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Speaker 3: That is so cool, And you were absolutely speaking our

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Speaker 3: listener's language. We're going to take a quick break, and

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Speaker 3: then I want to talk about Chad Folks being an

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Speaker 3: amazing workplace for women, and just a little bit more

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Speaker 3: about the company and your life ideas. All right, we

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Speaker 3: are back and that story is amazing. I mean, especially

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Speaker 3: just I can hear the passion in your voice when

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Speaker 3: it was maybe a little bit going against it sounds

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Speaker 3: like the cultural zeitgeist that you were in to just

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Speaker 3: be like, no, this is what I want. I have

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Speaker 3: awesome ideas, and you know what, I'm going to try

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Speaker 3: the singing thing. Even so, how did we go from singing?

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Speaker 4: Two chatbooks?

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Speaker 3: Like?

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Speaker 4: How did the journey break off? Here?

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Speaker 5: How did the breakoff? Well? Best laid plans right, you

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Speaker 5: have a plan of how you want your life to go.

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Speaker 5: And it's anything that I've learned throughout my fifty almost

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Speaker 5: fifty three years is that making plans is great, and

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Speaker 5: I think that keeps you going right. But then you've

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Speaker 5: got to be ready to take the pivot wherever it comes.

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Speaker 5: And so our family was actually living in Florida at

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Speaker 5: the time, where I grew up just minutes from the beach,

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Speaker 5: in a beautiful home where I had already imagined where

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Speaker 5: I was going to host all the wedding perceptions of

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Speaker 5: my kids, like this is where we're going to live forever.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: I had my running friends, I had my theater friends.

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Speaker 5: I was working a lot in local theaters and with

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Speaker 5: a local orchestra. And like I had mentioned, my husband

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Speaker 5: had been building out this you know, solution for family

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Speaker 5: memories that was not going anywhere, and in a moment

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Speaker 5: of like panic, he was like, we have to move

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Speaker 5: to Utah. Like this little beachside town, as much as

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Speaker 5: we love it, like we're never going to be able

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Speaker 5: to build this company here. We've got to go to Utah.

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Speaker 5: And I went to college in Utah, and I loved

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Speaker 5: my time in college, but I did not love Utah.

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Speaker 5: And I know my husband when we graduated, I am

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Speaker 5: never going back there. And at the time he was

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Speaker 5: like me neither. He was from the East Coast as well.

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Speaker 5: I grew up in Florida, but there was really exciting

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Speaker 5: things happening in Utah, especially around consumer tech. And my

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Speaker 5: husband had flown out to Utah a couple times to

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Speaker 5: pitch some investors, and he was like, that is where

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Speaker 5: we have to go. There's like so much energy and

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Speaker 5: the culture of family is so big there. And this

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Speaker 5: was what clinched it for me. My oldest son decided

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Speaker 5: to go to BYU and he got accepted and so

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Speaker 5: he was going west. I had the hardest time imagining

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Speaker 5: sending my baby across the country, just goodbye, go off

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Speaker 5: to college. And so that was what kind of like

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Speaker 5: finally like tipped it for me, like, Okay, we'll move

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Speaker 5: to Utah for the business, also to follow my son

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Speaker 5: to college, which he hated. Actually, at one point I

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Speaker 5: had to tell him pretend we don't live here, and

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Speaker 5: he did. I hardly heard from him. In fact, I

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Speaker 5: called him to say, you know, when are you coming

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Speaker 5: home for Christmas? Like when's your last exam? He was

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Speaker 5: in Florida. He just booked his own flight, went to

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Speaker 5: Florida to do his own thing. Anyway, we moved our

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Speaker 5: whole family to Utah to try to give this business

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Speaker 5: that my husband had been building a chance. And that's

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Speaker 5: when I had my idea of like put all of

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Speaker 5: that expensive code even building on the shelf, and just

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Speaker 5: focus on the real problem that I am having, which

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Speaker 5: is the only way my son can see the photos

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Speaker 5: from the last five years of his life is in

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Speaker 5: the iPad, and I'm constantly taking the iPad and the

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Speaker 5: phones away from him. Right, he was just an addict.

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Speaker 5: With the exception of one printed photo album that his

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Speaker 5: preschool teacher had made that last year of preschool. She

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Speaker 5: took photos of their parties and field trips and whatever,

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Speaker 5: and she printed them off at Walgreens dropped him in

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Speaker 5: this old dollar store album and he loved that album.

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Speaker 5: He took it everywhere with him. In fact, the night

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Speaker 5: before he went to preschool, I found him up in

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Speaker 5: his room bawling his eyes out. He told me he

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Speaker 5: never wanted to grow up. He'd been looking at these

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Speaker 5: few photos and was feeling all these big feelings and

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Speaker 5: it was adorable. But it was also this massive gut

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Speaker 5: punch to me that I was failing in one of

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Speaker 5: my most important mom jobs, which is to help my

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Speaker 5: kids hold on to their story. There's so much power

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Speaker 5: in our stories, and it comes across differently scrolling on

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Speaker 5: an iPad than it does with a printed photo. And

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Speaker 5: so that was the light bulb moment that pivoted all

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Speaker 5: of the work that had been done previously. And like

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Speaker 5: I said, it was my idea. I knew who our

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Speaker 5: customer was, I knew how to talk to them, where

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Speaker 5: to find them. And so instead of going off to

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Speaker 5: play tennis or get yoga certified, when Deklan went off

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Speaker 5: to kindergarten, I went to work. And it was the

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Speaker 5: first like nine to five job I had ever had,

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Speaker 5: and there was a big learning curve there.

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Speaker 3: But it sounds like obviously things went in an amazing direction.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure it probably sounds much more easy in retrospect

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Speaker 3: and they're playing million humps and little learning points along

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Speaker 3: the way. But your idea ended up getting into the

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Speaker 3: hands of so many people. I was literally taking a

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Speaker 3: walk before I recorded this episode and said I was

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Speaker 3: going to talk to the counder of chapbooks, and she goes, oh,

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Speaker 3: I have like a hundred of those all over my house.

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Speaker 4: So I, oh, man, you.

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Speaker 5: Know, I think so often we're just working head down,

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Speaker 5: grinding it out, trying to grow, trying to like do

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Speaker 5: all the things, and you sometimes forget that this is

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Speaker 5: actually making a difference. Those kinds of stories make me

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Speaker 5: so happy to hear it is.

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Speaker 3: So let's talk about saving memories a little bit. And

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Speaker 3: you definitely have me on board with the idea that

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Speaker 3: printed is a little bit different than digital. Do you

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Speaker 3: have like rituals you recommend around memory keeping, whether that

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Speaker 3: involves using chatbooks or another platform. But like, sometimes I

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Speaker 3: believe that we focus a lot on like the product

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Speaker 3: and not a lot on like the process. Like a

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Speaker 3: lot are the processes here that will help people preserve

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Speaker 3: their family memories.

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Speaker 5: We all take a million photos, right, a gazillion photos.

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Speaker 5: I probably take ten times more than my husband. He

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Speaker 5: always makes fun of me, But if there's one moment

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Speaker 5: I want to capture, I'll just go ahead and take

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Speaker 5: five to ten of them, just because you never know,

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Speaker 5: you want to get like the right everyone looking whatever.

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Speaker 5: And we just have such access to our phones that

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Speaker 5: and our kids are so cute, they're always doing something.

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Speaker 5: We're just taking so many photos, and I think it's

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Speaker 5: amazing in contrast to the few photos that I have

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Speaker 5: of my childhood, right, Like, it's such a blessing. But

440
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 5: that overwhelm just causes paralysis, and a lot of us

441
00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 5: just sort of like, oh, I know I should be

442
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 5: doing something with my photos. But a process that I

443
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 5: have I call it my Sunday select where at the

444
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,920
Speaker 5: end of the week, usually Sunday afternoons or Sunday evenings,

445
00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 5: I go through my camera roll just from that week

446
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:16,359
Speaker 5: and just tackle those photos. Delete all the duplicates, delete

447
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 5: all the screenshots, either save them or just get rid

448
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,400
Speaker 5: of them. I'm really actually not going to ever cook

449
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,600
Speaker 5: that recipe that I screenshot in, send photos that I

450
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 5: have of neighborhood kids or of my nieces and nephews

451
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,199
Speaker 5: to them, just kind of declutter and pare down to

452
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,960
Speaker 5: what I actually want to keep that habit alone, and

453
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,639
Speaker 5: that's something you can start today. You don't have to

454
00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:38,520
Speaker 5: feel guilty about not going back throughout the years. Start

455
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 5: that today a weekly habit. Some people do it every day.

456
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 5: That's overwhelming for me because I take a lot of

457
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 5: photos for work things, and usually by the end of

458
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,000
Speaker 5: the week I know what I need to keep them

459
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:49,239
Speaker 5: what I don't need to keep. But just having a

460
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:54,240
Speaker 5: regular habit of curation is number one. And then it

461
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 5: honestly is so important to back them up. And I

462
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,200
Speaker 5: think most of us have them backed up on Google

463
00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,399
Speaker 5: or Amazon or the cloud, right. I hope, at the

464
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,199
Speaker 5: very least have them backed up in one place. I

465
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,240
Speaker 5: recommend having to. You can get really detailed in your

466
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,679
Speaker 5: curation and backup and use folders and by years. But

467
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,320
Speaker 5: AI has done so many amazing things in photo management

468
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 5: that something's better than nothing done, is better than perfect,

469
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:24,360
Speaker 5: like let the automation work for you, especially when you're

470
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 5: going through the backlog, but going forward, like get those

471
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 5: photos out of your phone and into the hands of

472
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,439
Speaker 5: your family. We actually have done research with HP and

473
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 5: with the Bump to measure the impact that printed photos

474
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,120
Speaker 5: have on families, and it's amazing the outcomes. I mean,

475
00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 5: number one, you're going to feel like a better parent

476
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 5: because you're doing something that you know you should probably

477
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 5: be doing right. And there's something about looking at printed

478
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 5: photos that like brings more permanence into our mind, into

479
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,159
Speaker 5: our memories. It helps create this narrative of our family

480
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,480
Speaker 5: story that can be such a source of strength and resilience.

481
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 5: There's something called elaborative reminiscing that the professor that worked

482
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 5: with us on the HP study helped us understand the

483
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,360
Speaker 5: power of it's when we tell stories with great detail,

484
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 5: and kids love to do this. Sit down with the

485
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 5: photo book or with a printed photo, and you ask

486
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 5: them what was happening here, and who is with you?

487
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,960
Speaker 5: And how are you feeling? And what happened before and

488
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 5: what did you do after and what did you learn

489
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,159
Speaker 5: from this? So often our kids experience of that moment

490
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,360
Speaker 5: that we've caught on camera is so different from our

491
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 5: own experience, and so allowing them to share it does

492
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 5: a lot of things. It helps them build a greater

493
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 5: sense of identity, it helps create better problem solving language skills.

494
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 5: There's more connection happening between parent and child, and they

495
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,320
Speaker 5: are crafting this narrative of their story that is going

496
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 5: to serve them throughout their whole life. So my suggestions are,

497
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:58,240
Speaker 5: do a regular curation of your camera starting today going forward.

498
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,119
Speaker 5: I've seen people share on Instauce. One hack is whatever

499
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 5: day you're doing it, go back throughout your camera, roll

500
00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 5: back the years on that same day and curate those two.

501
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 5: That's an amazing way to work on that backlog. But

502
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 5: I just really feel like if we start to think

503
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,119
Speaker 5: about all of the years where we've done nothing, we

504
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,479
Speaker 5: will just feel so overwhelmed that we'll do nothing. So

505
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 5: I like to just say that's for a later day.

506
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 5: Maybe when I'm retired, I will get to that, but

507
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:28,000
Speaker 5: now is the time to start doing something, something's better

508
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 5: than nothing, and then print your photos, whether it's with chatbooks,

509
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 5: there's so many companies that do photo books. I will

510
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 5: say the thing that is different about Chatbooks is when

511
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 5: we built the app and built the website, I had

512
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 5: busy moms in mind, like me and I had tried

513
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 5: making photo books on the other platforms, and there are

514
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 5: a million different ways to build a book, lots of

515
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 5: templates and cute fonts and colors and designs and shapes

516
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 5: and sizes of collages, all of those fun things. And

517
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 5: if you have tons of time.

518
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 4: You can make a great book.

519
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 5: But every book that I had ever started that way,

520
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 5: i'd never finished. And so we created a super easy

521
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 5: way to make a chat book where you really we've

522
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:12,200
Speaker 5: taken all of that decision fatigue away, the very simple layouts,

523
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 5: not a whole lot of choices to make. And it's

524
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 5: the ongoing photobook subscription that really is magical because think

525
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 5: about all the things that come into our homes, right,

526
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 5: all the catalogs and ads and media. What if you

527
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 5: had an ongoing, regular delivery of a photo book with

528
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 5: the memories and not just the ones that would traditionally

529
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 5: get made into a photo book, like the graduation and

530
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 5: the big trip and the family reunion, all those things. Yes,

531
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 5: you should be printing those photos and hanging on with

532
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 5: those two. But it's the everyday magic of our everyday

533
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 5: lives that really that is what really tells the story.

534
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 5: And you know, when I look through the few photos

535
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:52,400
Speaker 5: that I have of my childhood. One of my favorites

536
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 5: is a photo my mom took my room when I

537
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 5: was in seventh grade when I decided my favorite color

538
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 5: is purple, and I wanted the whole room purple, all

539
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 5: the things purple. And it was a disaster. And that

540
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 5: is just such a snapshot into my life as a

541
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 5: seven year old. I mean it is a seventh grader.

542
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 5: I make it a habit of taking picture. Anytime I

543
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 5: see one of my kids rooms just horrendously out of

544
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,480
Speaker 5: control messy, I'll snap a picture, and that goes in

545
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 5: our chat books because that's part of our story. And

546
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 5: one day they will be grown adults and they will

547
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,159
Speaker 5: have immaculate homes. Maybe I don't know who cares, but

548
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 5: they'll have this little snapshot to look back on, and

549
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 5: I will too. When my house is clean and quiet,

550
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,480
Speaker 5: I'll remember this is where the magic was happening in

551
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 5: the middle of this chaos and mess.

552
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: And they can show it to their kids and then

553
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 3: make them feel better about having a messy room. No,

554
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 3: I love that exactly. I think one thing, like having

555
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 3: these printed things around it's good for kids, it's also

556
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 3: good for us, Like you get to savor that vacation again,

557
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 3: you get to like remember the cute little thing that

558
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,200
Speaker 3: your kid did on that random class assembly or whatever.

559
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 3: And I know, yes, like these things are living in

560
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 3: our phone somewhere, but we're just not going to bring

561
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:03,400
Speaker 3: them out in the same way than if they're actually

562
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 3: like part of our environment. So I really do feel

563
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:07,199
Speaker 3: like it makes sense that there's value there. I saw

564
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 3: there's research on the kids, and I would like to

565
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,159
Speaker 3: know what the research is also as favorable for the adults.

566
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, Like eighty nine percent of moms say that

567
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,240
Speaker 5: looking at photos helps them feel like a better mom,

568
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 5: and I think it is number one. They've actually probably

569
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:24,199
Speaker 5: punted them and that's like, you know, gold star, I

570
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:25,719
Speaker 5: did that thing that I probably should be doing. But

571
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 5: also it gives you a chance to look back and

572
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 5: see all the things that you're doing, Like we are

573
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 5: doing a better job than we give ourselves credit for, right.

574
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,200
Speaker 5: And I know I'm in the thick of teenagers and

575
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 5: young adult kids and that can be very trying at times,

576
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 5: and sometimes I have an older child that I'm just

577
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 5: absolutely losing my mind with. But looking back at photos,

578
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 5: especially older photos, and being like, oh, yeah, we had

579
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 5: some really special moments and at the core that really

580
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 5: difficult teenager is a sweetheart, Like I remember those days

581
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,160
Speaker 5: and so it helps me like reground and reconnect. Yeah,

582
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 5: there's powerful, powerful outcomes for parents and especially around mental health.

583
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 5: Like that was what we were really focusing on in

584
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 5: the survey with the bump that all the things that

585
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 5: we can do and we have access to for our

586
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 5: mental health, Like a photo book is like one of

587
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 5: the most powerful mental health tools that we have at our.

588
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,479
Speaker 4: Fingertips and so simple. I love it.

589
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,719
Speaker 3: We're going to take a quick break and we'll be

590
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 3: back with more of Vanessa. Okay, we are back. I

591
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 3: want to ask you like a slight pivot. I read

592
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 3: that Chatbooks was actually named one of the best places

593
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 3: to work for women, and I want to know what

594
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 3: is your company doing structure wise to make it so awesome, Like,

595
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 3: because we have a lot of leaders that listen to

596
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 3: this podcast and if they want ideas on how to

597
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 3: make their workplace amazing or maybe to present it to

598
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 3: their leaders if they're not the ones in charge, give

599
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 3: us some ideas.

600
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, like I had mentioned before, this is

601
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 5: my first like go to work nine to five job.

602
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 5: I had observed my husband and some of his jobs,

603
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 5: and you know, building software that's a whole nother kind

604
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 5: of company culture. But here we had an opportunity to

605
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 5: build a company from the ground up that really reflected

606
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 5: our values. The mission of Chapbooks is to connect and

607
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 5: strengthen families, and I wanted everything from the product to

608
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 5: the company culture to reflect that. And we were in

609
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 5: a season of our life where I didn't want to

610
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 5: be absent from all the amazing things that were happening,

611
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 5: and so we just created a company culture that was

612
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 5: family first, recognizing that everyone that works for us has

613
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 5: a life outside of Chatbooks, and we want to and

614
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 5: expect every team member to come and bring their best

615
00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 5: self to work for eight amazing hours, but we can't

616
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 5: be blind to the fact that they have full three

617
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 5: sixty lives with people that depend on them and school

618
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 5: assemblies that they need to go to and kids that

619
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 5: get sick overnight, and then you can't come into work,

620
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 5: And so what is it going to look like and

621
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 5: feel like to work here at Chatbooks while being a mom,

622
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 5: being a dad, all of those other responsibilities, And so

623
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 5: we just center everything around five values. After working, you know,

624
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 5: those early startup days are a grind and you're just

625
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 5: trying to like just keep the wheels on the bus, right.

626
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 5: But when we had a moment to think about, all right,

627
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 5: how we want to be really deliberate about the kind

628
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 5: of company we were building. We're building a product that

629
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 5: serves parents and is primarily moms. We need every level

630
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 5: of this organization to represent our customer, like we need

631
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 5: women everywhere. So how are we going to create this

632
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 5: working environment that will be welcoming to all kinds of

633
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 5: women at different levels of their career. And so these

634
00:30:55,240 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 5: values that we just have heralded, We have them painted

635
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 5: on the walls in our offices, We use them for

636
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 5: every interview, for every evaluation, we talk about them constantly

637
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 5: are five star values. The pinnacle is to be a

638
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 5: grown up. And this came out of an experience where

639
00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 5: the first little office that we had, and it was

640
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 5: honestly just a bunch of guys developers, and my husband

641
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 5: and I would have to put the toilet paper on

642
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,120
Speaker 5: the toilet roll because these guys are used to their

643
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 5: mommy doing it and I'm like, this is not happening.

644
00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 5: You know, if number one, a chat booker is a

645
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 5: grown up, so that entails putting the toilet paper on

646
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 5: the toilet roll, cleaning up after yourself, and obviously, like

647
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 5: all of the other things that we expect from grown ups,

648
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 5: be considerate, be kind, be thoughtful, like all of those things.

649
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 5: And the other other values are being kind and optimistic,

650
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 5: being willing to ship and do amazing work. Those things

651
00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 5: come intention But we have this all stark culture with

652
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 5: family first benefits that are at like the top of

653
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 5: what is being offered here in Utah and including like

654
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 5: full mental health services for each employee and their family.

655
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,719
Speaker 5: We have access to a platform that allows them to

656
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 5: have therapy like all those things. As moms, we all

657
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 5: of my kids are therapy right now. Like how I

658
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 5: don't know how you live in this life without having help,

659
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 5: but just access to tools and resources and support from

660
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,719
Speaker 5: the highest level of childbooks leadership to do what they

661
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 5: need to do to bring their best self to work.

662
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 5: And it's just we have an incredible team, a very

663
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 5: diverse team. And yeah, getting an award like that was

664
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 5: just super validating and super grateful for it.

665
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 4: Well you should be proud.

666
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 3: It's amazing, and it's these kinds of companies sometimes don't last.

667
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 3: And here you are eleven years later and my friends

668
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:58,040
Speaker 3: got your books all over the house, So I think

669
00:32:58,080 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 3: you're doing an amazing job.

670
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 4: Makes me so pemple. On that note, two more things.

671
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: Number one, what advice would you offer to somebody who

672
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 3: has their own chat books in their head? I mean

673
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 3: not specifically photo books, but has some idea they're they're

674
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 3: excited about and they're like, where do I get started

675
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 3: with this?

676
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 4: What advice would you offer that young entrepreneur? Yeah?

677
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 5: I think the first thing is that there's seasons for things, right,

678
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 5: Like I think that if I had had this idea

679
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 5: when my oldest was going to kindergarten, I don't know

680
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 5: if I would have been able to do it. My

681
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 5: husband was in a different place in his career, I

682
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 5: was literally just babies everywhere. It wouldn't have been the

683
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 5: right time for me to do it. And so there

684
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 5: was something there in the timing of our family and

685
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 5: for me too, like I felt more ready then to

686
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 5: take that on that I would have earlier. And so

687
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 5: I hear a lot of people saying, I just really

688
00:33:58,120 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 5: want to build a business. I really want to build

689
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 5: a business, and it's doable to do with a bunch

690
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 5: of young kids. It is, but it might not be

691
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 5: right for you just because someone else is doing it.

692
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 5: So just really look at your situation and with your

693
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 5: partner talk about what your real goals, long term goals

694
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 5: are and your values and if now is the time,

695
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 5: then you just got to find the right support. And

696
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 5: whether it's a co founder, I am like hot on

697
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 5: a hot co founder. My co founder is very hot. No,

698
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 5: my husband is like amazing. I love building a business

699
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 5: while building a family with the same partner because that

700
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 5: give and take that always comes, like we're there for

701
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 5: each other, like with the same goal, with the same values,

702
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 5: able to help as you go through those ups and

703
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 5: downs of it all. But the other thing I would

704
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 5: just say, yeah, talk to a lot of people. I

705
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,359
Speaker 5: think as entrepreneurs sometimes we think that our idea is

706
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 5: we've got to guard it and keep it secret and safe.

707
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 5: But the more people you talk to, the better the outcome.

708
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 5: Like if it's something that someone can rip off really easily,

709
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 5: let them like find a different idea, Like you don't

710
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 5: want to have entering a market and being like so

711
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 5: vulnerable to competitors. But I really feel like when the

712
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,399
Speaker 5: more people you talk to, you're going to learn more

713
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 5: about the market. That you're entering the way that you

714
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,200
Speaker 5: want to find and sell to your customers. That's how

715
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 5: you find the best people to come work for you. Yeah,

716
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 5: just like network network, talk to as many people, listen

717
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 5: to your customer, really identify who your customer is, and

718
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 5: then really listen to what they're saying. Because I will

719
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 5: say one of the things that was the downfall of

720
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 5: what my husband had built for those years before chatbooks

721
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:44,840
Speaker 5: was I would actually gather these focus groups of moms,

722
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 5: you know, to have them do demos, and they would

723
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 5: politely listen and say, yes, I should do that. That

724
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 5: is a really great idea. I should totally do that.

725
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 5: By the way, should is the kiss of death. If

726
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 5: you hear that, that means I will never Sorry, I

727
00:35:57,440 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 5: don't have time for that. But the all question was

728
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 5: always couldn't I print all of this in a book?

729
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 5: And my husband at the time thought print is dead.

730
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 5: All this is going to be safe and sound and

731
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 5: shareable in the cloud. But I'm sorry, we should have

732
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:15,640
Speaker 5: listened to our customers say they want this printed is

733
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 5: It turns out that was the key that is why

734
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 5: chatbooks finally took off, because we were finally printing the

735
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 5: photos that they cared about and we're curating. So yeah,

736
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,640
Speaker 5: that's so funny. Make sure this is the right season

737
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 5: for you, and then talk to as many people as

738
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 5: you can and learn as much as you can, especially

739
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 5: from your perspective customer.

740
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 4: I love that.

741
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 3: I love the story of like, well, no, we can't

742
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 3: do that, or we don't need to do that, like

743
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 3: over and over again. Then finally you realize, wait a second,

744
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 3: they know exactly that is great.

745
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 5: I know, well, it's it's tough sometimes as such an entrepreneur,

746
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 5: you're like, no, I need to be really dogged about

747
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 5: my vision. That's what's setting us apart. Yes, and you

748
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,760
Speaker 5: got to listen to the market and listen to your customers.

749
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 5: So there's tension there too, and it's it's.

750
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 4: Tricky, super helpful.

751
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 3: So our final thing we do this on every episode

752
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 3: is that we have a love of the week, which

753
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,680
Speaker 3: can be anything. It can be a show you watched,

754
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 3: it can be like a scenery you saw outside your window.

755
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 3: It can be literally everything. And I always have me

756
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 3: go first. You have an example and you haven't a

757
00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 3: big about it, But my love of the week is

758
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 3: doing what I call a walk and talk, which is

759
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 3: just like I'll just text a friend and be like,

760
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,280
Speaker 3: want to go on a walk together at like noonsh

761
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 3: you know, like they could be in another city. But

762
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,319
Speaker 3: then I'll go out for a walk and steamy South

763
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 3: Florida and they'll go for a walk in like somewhere

764
00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: much more pleasant, and we'll chat and the time goes

765
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,120
Speaker 3: by in like no time, and it's not quite as

766
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 3: good as walking next to the person, but it's like

767
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 3: eighty five percent is good, which is awesome. So I'm

768
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 3: super into walking talks.

769
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,720
Speaker 5: I love that I actually schedule some of my meetings

770
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 5: as a walk and talk and I'll just go out

771
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 5: and walk around our officers and a great place to walk.

772
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:57,359
Speaker 5: But I work from home three days a week, so

773
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 5: go walk around the trail. I love that. It's so good. Okay,

774
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,479
Speaker 5: I know what my love of the week is. All

775
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,879
Speaker 5: my kids are in town this week, including my two

776
00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 5: grand babies, So waking up to the sound of happy

777
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 5: little grand babies is the best. And I've been digging

778
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 5: in the basement pulling out the few little toys and

779
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 5: books that I've saved from my kids, and watching them

780
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 5: play with these now vintage toys is just like forget

781
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 5: about it. It's the best. But they do leave in

782
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 5: a week, and I'm not going to be sad about

783
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 5: that either. So they brought three dogs with them, so

784
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 5: we had a lot of dogs in our house right now.

785
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 4: It's perfect.

786
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 3: You can love the week when they're here, and then

787
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 3: you can love your piece and quiet on the other end. Well,

788
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 3: thank you so much for coming on in us. This

789
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,279
Speaker 3: has been a pleasure. Yeah, thanks for having me all.

790
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 4: Right, we are back.

791
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 3: So much fun to talk with Vanessa, And I have

792
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 3: to say that does kind of makes me think about

793
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 3: trying chatbooks since I have not been as consistent with

794
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 3: my other photo methods as I had been previously, So

795
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 3: we will see if I become a convert. But here's

796
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 3: our question that came to us this week. This comes

797
00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 3: from a listener who writes, I have a question in

798
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 3: regards to my resume and work experience as it relates

799
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,400
Speaker 3: to moves we've made for my husband's career. Because he

800
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 3: works in a specific niche industry, We've moved a lot

801
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,839
Speaker 3: based on the location of companies that he would work for.

802
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 3: But now that the kids are in school, we are

803
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:17,240
Speaker 3: not going to work anymore.

804
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:18,720
Speaker 1: I don't move anymore.

805
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 3: Sorry, Yeah, we're done working, kids are in Still, we're done.

806
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 3: We want to stay put, We're happy with the school district,

807
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 3: et cetera. So I'm in a remote role for a

808
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 3: large corporate company in which my role has gone completely stagnant.

809
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 3: So I'm looking for something else. What advice do you

810
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,239
Speaker 3: have for someone like me who's bounced around in my

811
00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 3: career but not because of personal reasons, but because of

812
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:41,240
Speaker 3: my husband's specific job prospects. I want to be prepared

813
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 3: for how to justify the many jobs I've had. I

814
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 3: have nothing to hide, but I'm not sure how that's

815
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 3: going to be perceived as I go for more senior roles.

816
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

817
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 2: I thought this is a great question, and I think

818
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 2: this is something probably a lot of people have experienced.

819
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 2: So you could certainly ask friends and colleagues people online

820
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: about this for advice. But as I think you noted,

821
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 2: there's nothing to hide. If you need to explain it,

822
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 2: you can simply mention what you said that earlier in

823
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: your career you moved because of opportunities based on your

824
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 2: husband's job, but now you are settled and not planning

825
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 2: on moving because the kids are in school. I mean,

826
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 2: if your interviewer has children, they will totally understand that.

827
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 2: And so you're looking for longer term opportunities, and you

828
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,520
Speaker 2: can even talk about that, like, I am so excited

829
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,960
Speaker 2: to now be able to take on a longer term opportunity.

830
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 2: I'm so excited to see myself at this company long

831
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 2: term and keep working that language into it. And it's

832
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 2: hard to know how any of this will play out,

833
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 2: but I have found interviewing is also about getting a

834
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 2: lot of practice, especially if you're.

835
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: Going to do a lot of this over the next

836
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: few months.

837
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 2: You will quickly find out what people react positively to

838
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 2: or what they sort of raise their eyebrows, and then

839
00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 2: you will quickly learn to adjust how you spell it.

840
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 2: And I think the upside though, of clearly the reasons

841
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:08,800
Speaker 2: you moved really didn't have anything to do with either

842
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,720
Speaker 2: you or the companies that you worked for in the past.

843
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 2: It was just a circumstance sort of thing. So this

844
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 2: means that you've got a pretty warm network I would

845
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 2: imagine of all those places, because a lot of those

846
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: companies probably regretted seeing you go out the door, and

847
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: you may have been happy to have continued working for them.

848
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 2: It just didn't work because you needed to live in

849
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 2: California and they were in Pennsylvania or something. So I

850
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 2: would start by reaching back out.

851
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 1: To all of those people.

852
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: And I don't know if anyone's still hiring, but they

853
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 2: may know people who are.

854
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: They may have moved to other places and have ideas.

855
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 2: So I would really tap the fact that you have

856
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 2: a big network from having moved around to a lot

857
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 2: of jobs and left those jobs, not because there was

858
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 2: anything wrong with the jobs or with you, but because

859
00:41:52,239 --> 00:41:54,240
Speaker 2: of sheer circumstantial kind of things.

860
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 3: Totally makes sense, I think one thing, and I haven't

861
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 3: done a ton of hiring, but have definitely assisted with some.

862
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 3: You want to hear a story that makes sense, and

863
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 3: you have one, so like, why hide it? It's like, oh,

864
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,399
Speaker 3: this is like a very natural trajectory. It'll also mean

865
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 3: if you're being honest, that you're not going to have

866
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 3: to like talk around something things will people can kind

867
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:14,280
Speaker 3: of sense when you're.

868
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 4: Trying to hide something, and you won't have to worry

869
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 4: about that.

870
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 3: And I actually think there's a way you could spin

871
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 3: this as a plus, like, oh, I've gotten to see

872
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 3: how so many different companies do things, and I've really

873
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 3: been able to glean the best methods from everywhere and

874
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 3: have assembled all these contacts. As Laura mentioned, like, you know,

875
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 3: it's not like you've even left on bad terms. So wow,

876
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 3: what a great network you have to draw from and

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00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 3: that this could actually be a selling point. So great

878
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 3: question and great thing to think through as you embark

879
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:40,919
Speaker 3: on this journey. We wish you the best of luck.

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00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

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00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 2: Exciting to think about a new stage in your career

882
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,560
Speaker 2: and having a little more options and hopefully finding something

883
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,759
Speaker 2: that feels a little less stagnant than what you're doing now. Well,

884
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 2: this has been best of both worlds. Sarah has been

885
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 2: interviewing Vanessa.

886
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 1: Quigley of Chatbooks.

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00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,280
Speaker 2: We will be back next week with more on making

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00:42:58,320 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 2: work and life fit together.

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00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 4: Thanks for listening.

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00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,960
Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com

891
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 3: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram.

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00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,720
Speaker 2: And you can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com.

893
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: This has been the.

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00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 2: Best of both worlds podcasts. Please join us next time

895
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 2: for more on making work and life work together.