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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, I'm joined by Jim Bouchard, an outdoor writer

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Speaker 2: and Northern Michigan deer hunter, to discuss rut hunting and

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Speaker 2: gun season tactics for low deer density areas. Really all right,

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Speaker 2: welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to

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Speaker 2: you by First Light and their Camera for Conservation initiative

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Speaker 2: and their brand new line of whitetail gear this year.

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Speaker 2: You can find it all over at first Light dot com.

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Speaker 2: In today's episode is just what you need to hear

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Speaker 2: if you are hunting right now as this pot cast drops.

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Speaker 2: This one's coming out on November fourteenth, twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 2: and that means we are right smack dab in the

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Speaker 2: middle of the rut and for many hunters across the country,

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Speaker 2: just about to kick off gun seasons when things do change.

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Speaker 2: So to help with that, to help with those challenges

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Speaker 2: on the way with the things that you might have

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Speaker 2: going on right now. I've brought on a guest who

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Speaker 2: is brand new to this show, but with a lot

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Speaker 2: of value to add. His name is Jim Bouchard. He's

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Speaker 2: a Northern Michigan deer hunter who has been getting it

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Speaker 2: done consistently, year after year after year in a really

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Speaker 2: tough place to do that. And I know that because

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Speaker 2: I grew up hunting in northern Michigan with very limited success,

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Speaker 2: and Jim somehow is doing it in similar country with

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Speaker 2: very impressive results, killing mature bucks in places where there

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Speaker 2: just aren't a lot of those kinds of deer. And

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Speaker 2: so I've been watching Jim from afar trying to figure

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Speaker 2: out how he does it, what's the secret to his success,

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Speaker 2: and how can you kill deer like that in places

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Speaker 2: where you know the cards are stacked against you. Low

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Speaker 2: deer densities, big timber, lots of cover, lots of hunters,

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Speaker 2: hard to understand terrain. Whether you hunt in the big

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Speaker 2: woods of Kentucky or southern Ohio or or up north

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Speaker 2: in Minnesota or Wisconsin or Pennsylvania, you know there is

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Speaker 2: a lot of the nation that has this set of

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Speaker 2: circumstances and Jim's tactics are proven to work in those scenarios,

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Speaker 2: so I wanted to get his perspective and to be

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Speaker 2: able to help all of you out there who don't

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Speaker 2: get to have the luxury of hunting thousands of deer

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Speaker 2: across the perfectly manicured farm fields of Illinois or Iowa

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Speaker 2: or Kansas and the Gray Plains. Whatever it is. That

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Speaker 2: is what today's podcast is all about and the unique

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Speaker 2: challenges that come by way of gun season. Because Jim

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Speaker 2: has been able to enjoy success even after our November

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Speaker 2: fifteenth opening day of gun season here in Michigan. So

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Speaker 2: Jim not only is a successful hunter, He's also successfully

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Speaker 2: been able to share these stories in Peterson's Bow Hunting

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Speaker 2: Magazine and Bowhunter Magazine and does a great job communicating

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Speaker 2: as well. So that is I'd say a double whammy

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Speaker 2: for why Jim's gonna be a great guest here, good hunter,

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Speaker 2: good communicator, and relevant information for you here today in

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Speaker 2: mid November. So I think we should not beat around

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Speaker 2: the bush here, we should get right into the show.

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Speaker 2: I will remind you that if you enjoy our rut

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Speaker 2: hunting tunes, Big White Tails and the Most Wonderful Time

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Speaker 2: to kill deer. They will be at the end of

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Speaker 2: the episode. So some of you may not like it,

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Speaker 2: but I can tell you that my six year old

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Speaker 2: son absolutely loves these songs and I have to go

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Speaker 2: find them in our episodes of the podcast whenever he

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Speaker 2: wants to listen. So if you have a child who

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Speaker 2: really enjoys these jingles, or if you are a child

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Speaker 2: at heart the guy I am, and want to enjoy

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Speaker 2: those songs. There at the end, they're still here. We

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Speaker 2: are still celebrating the rut because this is the most

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Speaker 2: wonderful time to kill deer, and damn it, I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: enjoy it, have a good time with it, and I

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Speaker 2: hope you will too. So without any further ado, let's

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Speaker 2: get to my chat with Jim.

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Speaker 3: Who's sharp.

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Speaker 2: All right here with me on the line for another

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Speaker 2: episode of the Wired Hunt podcast is Jim Buchhard. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to the show, Jim, Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 3: It's a pleasure.

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Speaker 2: Like I was just saying a second ago before we

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Speaker 2: started recording this podcast, is incredibly self serving today. I'm

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Speaker 2: a very selfish person. I am here for my own

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Speaker 2: personal gains today because I am a aspiring Northern Michigan

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Speaker 2: deer hunter. I grew up hunting in Northern Michigan, but

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Speaker 2: we didn't do too terribly well up there. And now

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Speaker 2: I've been watching you from afar for years, every year

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Speaker 2: killing big old bucks in Northern Michigan, and I keep

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Speaker 2: scratching my head and wondering how does he do it?

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Speaker 2: So today today we're getting the answers. Jim, Okay, I'm

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Speaker 2: hoping you can live up to that.

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Speaker 3: I hope I can do my best to help you out.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you can. And I'm actually I'm actually leaving

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Speaker 2: for our Northern Michigan deer camp tomorrow night, so this

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Speaker 2: is very good timing. I'm actually heading up there to

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Speaker 2: help my dad with a short rut hunt, hoping that

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Speaker 2: he can can fill an archery tag up there before

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Speaker 2: our big gun season camp. So so yeah, we're gonna

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Speaker 2: try to turn these ideas around real quick and put

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Speaker 2: them into action. Well that said, what I think I'm

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Speaker 2: curious to set, or what I want to do, is

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Speaker 2: set the stage, Like I understand the situation you're hunting in.

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Speaker 2: I've grown up hunting similar stuff, but I imagine there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of people that can't and haven't done that before.

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Speaker 2: So could you first kind of describe for me what

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Speaker 2: the areas are that you hunt, Like, what what those

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Speaker 2: areas are, Like, what what's the habitat composition? Like, what's

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Speaker 2: what are the challenges to hunting in these kinds of places?

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Speaker 2: Because because what impresses me about what you do is

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Speaker 2: the situations you're finding success in. This isn't like you're

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Speaker 2: killing deer in Iowa on manicured farm ground like my

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Speaker 2: buddy Dan Johnson. You're doing it in a different kind

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Speaker 2: of different kind of place. So can you paint that

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Speaker 2: scene for us?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so in this area, it's yeah, you have the

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Speaker 3: egg of Michigan, but there's a ton of big woods

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Speaker 3: and you know, when it comes to hunting up here,

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Speaker 3: the expectations of the size of things. Man, you're a

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Speaker 3: Michigan guy. Earlierarly on, if it was three inches you

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Speaker 3: were pulling the trigger, which you know, a lifespan. It

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Speaker 3: just they're so short. So when it comes to expectations,

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Speaker 3: you know, that's the one thing I like about you

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Speaker 3: and toning your conversations. You know, it's uh, it's hunting deer.

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Speaker 3: So giant deer around here. I mean I was just

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Speaker 3: talking with somebody the other day. The biggest deer I

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Speaker 3: have ever held. It wasn't mine was And I've been

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Speaker 3: hunting my entire life with the extremely serious hunting fan family.

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Speaker 3: Is like one hundred and forty two inches, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, the giants.

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Speaker 3: That a giant though, that's the biggest I've ever held.

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Speaker 3: So and that you know, you go southern Michigan, there's

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Speaker 3: gonna be a lot of one forty shot this year

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Speaker 3: and larger, you know. So in this little pocket of

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Speaker 3: the TB area that it's been labeled for a long

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Speaker 3: long time, is there are a lot of hunters, But

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Speaker 3: as far as like even looking at watching television and

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Speaker 3: thinking about one six, it's just not going to happen.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'd love to make it happen, but I

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Speaker 3: really try, but that's just an unrealistic expectation around here.

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Speaker 2: So so up there, do you guys have a lot

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Speaker 2: of the like Detroit hunting traffic that's coming up to

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Speaker 2: hunt your neck of the woods. Is that where a

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Speaker 2: lot of that pressure is come gun season and whatnot?

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Speaker 2: Or is it mostly locals? Ye?

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Speaker 3: Like in the in the area where I live, there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of people that do come up from downstate

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Speaker 3: to this location and you guess that the trunk slammers, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean when you're driving in Michigan, it'so migratory state

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Speaker 3: every Friday Sunday. And the thing about me living up

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Speaker 3: here is I'm always doing the opposite. You know, if

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Speaker 3: I'm going downstate every but it's coming north and vice versa.

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Speaker 3: So in my particular area is a lot of people

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Speaker 3: that do come from downstate, but in general, it's just

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Speaker 3: like it's the hunting lifestyle. So there's just a lot

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Speaker 3: of people that hunt. So even one of my favorite

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Speaker 3: farms that I hunt, everywhere you look there's a tower blind.

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Speaker 3: You know, every food plot in the area that I

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Speaker 3: have has a tent right on it has a ladder

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Speaker 3: stand on it. So it's just what we do around here.

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Speaker 3: It was a lot more migratory back in the day,

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Speaker 3: you know, as Michigan's turned. It used to be the

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Speaker 3: up was the jam, That's where you saw the big

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Speaker 3: buck night, That's where they came from. And now it's

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Speaker 3: like totally flip flop to the opposite side of the state,

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Speaker 3: which is pretty amazing. But yeah, it's just what we do.

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Speaker 3: We hunt here, and there's a lot of hunt every

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Speaker 3: single field that has a box on it.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, so you've got this part of Michigan, northern

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Speaker 2: Michigan where you have a mix of some egg and

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Speaker 2: some timber and probably some swampy stuff too, is that right?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, okay, so not too different.

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Speaker 3: That's I mean a lot of cedar and uh, lots

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Speaker 3: of a lot of thick stuff. Yeah, a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Water, right, water and thick marshy cedery, swampy, lots of timber. Big.

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Speaker 2: It's big, big country, right.

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Speaker 3: Big country. Yeah, you can you know, some of the

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Speaker 3: chunks of state land up here, enormous in federal land

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Speaker 3: and really unique in the fact that you have federal

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Speaker 3: land right on Lake Huron, which is like awesome up here.

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Speaker 3: And now the new craze of a lot of public

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Speaker 3: land stuff, there's more pressure than there used to be

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Speaker 3: on those locations, but it's pretty amazing they have that

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Speaker 3: much shoreline that's at your disposal, you know, on that

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Speaker 3: state land.

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Speaker 2: So here's here's where I have spent a lot of

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Speaker 2: days scratching my head when you're looking at especially like

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Speaker 2: big tracks, like you're talking about big state land, big

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Speaker 2: federal land, which there's a lot of that in northern Michigan,

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Speaker 2: northern Wisconsin, northern Minnesota, Vermont, Maine, Pennsylvania, southern Ohio. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot of parts of the country that have this

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Speaker 2: big timber or big swamp, lots of woods, vast areas.

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Speaker 2: It's overwhelming in many cases, and because there's not as

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Speaker 2: much diversity, or at least obvious diversity like you might

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Speaker 2: have in a southern Michigan, where there's like field here,

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Speaker 2: a little bit of woods here, it's kind of daunting

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Speaker 2: to try to break it down and figure out where

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Speaker 2: the heck are these deer because on top of that,

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Speaker 2: at least in most of the places I've hunted like this,

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Speaker 2: you've got the big woods or big whatever, but then

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Speaker 2: relatively smaller, relatively lower deer density. So it's you've got

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Speaker 2: a couple of needles in a really big haystack that

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Speaker 2: all kind of looks the same. So I gotta believe

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Speaker 2: one of the secrets to your success is just breaking

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Speaker 2: that stuff down and finding what to focus on within

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Speaker 2: these vast countries or the big swamps. So there's big

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Speaker 2: pieces of timber that are next to your spots or

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Speaker 2: that are your spots, Can you kind of walk me

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Speaker 2: through that to start is like, how do you go

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Speaker 2: about breaking down this kind of habitat that's not as

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Speaker 2: obvious as the standard Midwest southern Michigan, Ohio, whatever kind

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Speaker 2: of stuff. How do you find deer on these big

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Speaker 2: swaths of sometimes big contiguous timber.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean when I have gone into like the Midwest,

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Speaker 3: it's amazing, Like how easy it is to you can

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Speaker 3: narrow down your scouting. There's a spot across the road

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Speaker 3: here where it can be maddening. You can walk an

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Speaker 3: entire day and go. I don't know where I would

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Speaker 3: ever sit here. It's not a concentration. So when it

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Speaker 3: comes to me breaking it down, I mean even when

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Speaker 3: it comes to any scouting stuff, it's about just boots,

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Speaker 3: it really is. I mean you can look at you

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Speaker 3: can look at on X and it's just a bunch

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Speaker 3: of green. You know, yeah there's something, it's just a

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Speaker 3: bunch of green, and then yeah there's top of lines.

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Speaker 3: But it's really you have to go see it. You

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Speaker 3: have to go see it, and in some cases you

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Speaker 3: have to go experience it because I know there's historical

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Speaker 3: places where my families have hunted in this federal land,

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Speaker 3: where I have gone there and go, I would never

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Speaker 3: sit here in a million years, Like yeah, so and

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Speaker 3: so they shut a buck here and they shot a

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Speaker 3: buck here, and like why there's something about that little

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Speaker 3: ridge and something about that crik down there that makes

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Speaker 3: it good. And the only reason they knew is they

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Speaker 3: put their butt there and it worked one time, you know,

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Speaker 3: and then they started to go back. And when it

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Speaker 3: comes to me, I just like when it comes to scouting,

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Speaker 3: I put a turmendous mount of time. It's all postseason

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Speaker 3: stuff when I can see and I can just put

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Speaker 3: miles in and then I have to get the secondary

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Speaker 3: information of the sign that camp that happened in the rut.

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Speaker 3: And me, when it comes to wherever I'm gonna look,

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Speaker 3: no matter where it is, I go to the vic stuff.

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Speaker 3: It's just I just go thick. And when I see

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Speaker 3: like television, I see some like some people hunting in

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Speaker 3: parky stuff, it just makes me nervous, like I just

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Speaker 3: like I feel like I'd be wasting my time. When

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Speaker 3: I see parky stuff, I just rule it out of

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Speaker 3: my brain because I don't ever really look for it

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Speaker 3: here at all. I just go like, where is it

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Speaker 3: really really thick? And that's where I'm going to start.

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Speaker 2: How would you define really thick, like in your neck

251
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Speaker 2: of the woods. What does really thick equal? Because I

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Speaker 2: think everyone's got a different definition based on where they're at,

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Speaker 2: you bat.

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Speaker 3: So, most of my hunting companions make fun of me

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Speaker 3: when I send them pictures from my tree stand of

256
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Speaker 3: how thick it is. I just had the longest shot

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Speaker 3: of my entire life on a white tail in northern Michigan,

258
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Speaker 3: and I luck you got an arrow in it. It was

259
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Speaker 3: thirty four yards. That's the longest of my life, most

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Speaker 3: of my I mean, I have a single pin roller.

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Speaker 3: It's always at twenty five. I don't even have to

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Speaker 3: think about it. I am tight and I have a

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Speaker 3: couple of shots. So for the most part, I always think,

264
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Speaker 3: but like in your situation with the cameraman, it'd be

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Speaker 3: the worst, it'd be the most boring. You wouldn't even

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Speaker 3: have any good b roll. It's just you are so claustrophobic.

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Speaker 3: It's not really that enjoyable. I can tell you that.

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Speaker 3: But it's like it's effective for me, and it's just

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Speaker 3: basically what I stick to. I mean, so we're talking

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Speaker 3: extremely thick. I got a couple of shots I'm not

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Speaker 3: seeing I'm not calling deering from a long range. I'm

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Speaker 3: seeing twenty five yards.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so so so thick that you can see

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Speaker 2: twenty thirty yards max. Something like that. And so cedars, right,

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Speaker 2: tall grass, cedars and tall grass.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 2: So when you're out there scouting, you're putting all these

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Speaker 2: boots on, all these miles on the boots, you're looking

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Speaker 2: for thick stuff patches like what you just described. What

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Speaker 2: are the other features or sign that you are trying

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Speaker 2: to key in on when trying to find places worth

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Speaker 2: hunting in this vast terrain.

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Speaker 3: The other thing is too, So even if it's thick,

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Speaker 3: I don't necessarily have to go a long long way

285
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Speaker 3: for the thick stuff. It can be maybe the overlook

286
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Speaker 3: thick stuff. So I was just thinking about this, like

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Speaker 3: a perfect example. One of the places I hunted here

288
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Speaker 3: and shot one of my best bucks in an opening

289
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Speaker 3: day a handful of years ago, was a favorite spot

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Speaker 3: for kids to just ride dirt bikes. It was a

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Speaker 3: little dooney area and I literally was probably one hundred

292
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Speaker 3: yards from this little location where this little rise and

293
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Speaker 3: everybody testing out their side by sides there and they're

294
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Speaker 3: super loud, but this huge ridge dumped over into this

295
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Speaker 3: perfect little funnel and it attached two locations. I knew

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Speaker 3: they were high on the ridge with acorns and they're

297
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Speaker 3: going down to the swap. There's people that hunted there,

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Speaker 3: and I would listen to them, like discharge their crossbows

299
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Speaker 3: at night. They're so close to me. I mean, I

300
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Speaker 3: had people come in with dirt bikes and the deer

301
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Speaker 3: would just freeze and let them do their thing. I'd

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Speaker 3: have bird hunters come in and park in this location

303
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Speaker 3: and I'd hear them load their dogs and I'd watch

304
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Speaker 3: dos just pause and watch them. They couldn't see them,

305
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Speaker 3: but there was tall grass really low like eight foot,

306
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Speaker 3: like spruce and stuff, and the deer just used it

307
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Speaker 3: all the time. It looked silly. I was so afraid

308
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Speaker 3: of people seeing me in there because it like this

309
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,400
Speaker 3: looks ridiculous, and it's so easy to get to. I

310
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Speaker 3: thought somebody would take the spot. But I shot one

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Speaker 3: of my best bucks, you know, one hundred yards away

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Speaker 3: from where people loved to try their dirt bikes. But

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Speaker 3: it's nice and thick and it connected two places where

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Speaker 3: they wanted to go.

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Speaker 2: Was there any like deer sign within that when you

316
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Speaker 2: first discovered it, that did you say it? Because I

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Speaker 2: got to imagine, like you see something like that, like

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Speaker 2: the terrain itself, and you say like, oh hey, Oakridge

319
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Speaker 2: leads down to a swamp, little tight spot, like okay,

320
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Speaker 2: this makes sense, but it's also right next to this

321
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Speaker 2: highly used area. What was it that confirmed for you, like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is worth my time?

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Speaker 3: There was it was full of rubs and it seemed

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Speaker 3: like they it was full of rubs and kind of

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Speaker 3: like what I said my uncles, I said, you know what,

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Speaker 3: I got to give this a shot. So I sat

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Speaker 3: it and then I eventually narrowed things down because I

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Speaker 3: saw it to be and they just really stuck to

329
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Speaker 3: the cedars. I watched Bucks spar in there, and they

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Speaker 3: left a lot of sign and I think it was

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Speaker 3: almost like a little bit of a staging area where

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Speaker 3: even though it was by people, they just felt really

333
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,320
Speaker 3: protected in there. You couldn't see them. Even if he

334
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:52,800
Speaker 3: got to the top of the broom where the people

335
00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:54,840
Speaker 3: were riding bikes, you could not see him in there.

336
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:57,840
Speaker 3: So they're comfortable. And that was when I used to

337
00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,560
Speaker 3: use trail cameras, and that might be another subject I

338
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:02,879
Speaker 3: used the trail cameras and narrow down like you know,

339
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 3: will they use this trail eventually that I was sitting

340
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,679
Speaker 3: on it and the one guy made a mistake. The

341
00:18:08,720 --> 00:18:11,040
Speaker 3: sad part about that whole story is it's one of

342
00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,359
Speaker 3: my favorite spots and it was basically turned into a

343
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Speaker 3: parking they like clear cut it like two years after

344
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Speaker 3: I shot that buck, so totally gone. It is a bummer.

345
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Speaker 2: The the the sign thing is of interest to me

346
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,520
Speaker 2: because at least where I hunt in my part of

347
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Speaker 2: northern Michigan, and when I've hunted other big timber areas,

348
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:43,160
Speaker 2: like I've hunted something kind of like this in Arkansas,

349
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,439
Speaker 2: kind of like this in Alabama some other places like

350
00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,680
Speaker 2: that northern Minnesota, and there's just not the same deer

351
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,960
Speaker 2: numbers that we have in Illinois, Iowa, Southern Michigan. And

352
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Speaker 2: when I am looking for a good area here in

353
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Speaker 2: southern Michigan, I'm looking for a lot of sign, Like

354
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:04,320
Speaker 2: I mean, scrapes everywhere, like big huge rubs, like over

355
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,800
Speaker 2: and over and over, and I need that level of

356
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,679
Speaker 2: concentration to convince me that this is the spot. But

357
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,560
Speaker 2: when you hunt a big woods place with lower deer densities,

358
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,000
Speaker 2: I'm starting to learn, like a little bit means a

359
00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:21,199
Speaker 2: lot more in those zones. Is that what you found

360
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,080
Speaker 2: or how would you define like what's enough sign for

361
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,040
Speaker 2: you to care when you're looking in your area?

362
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,960
Speaker 3: So when it comes to sign here, sometimes when there's

363
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 3: a lot of sign, I stay away from it because

364
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,200
Speaker 3: I just went up the other day. I was fortunate

365
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:37,960
Speaker 3: to shoot a buck on the second day season here,

366
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm going to do a little

367
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 3: quick scout and check out some of the scrapes that

368
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,360
Speaker 3: I found in the winter. Went and checked them all out,

369
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,320
Speaker 3: and a lot of the like rich top open scrape

370
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:54,159
Speaker 3: rubs this camera camera ladder, camera ladder. It's like, well,

371
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:58,119
Speaker 3: all right, don't even pay attention to that. So going

372
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,320
Speaker 3: back down, like I said, where's the thick stuff? And

373
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:02,880
Speaker 3: then as there are a couple of rubs in there,

374
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:06,280
Speaker 3: maybe a scrape like they're using it, you know, just

375
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:10,520
Speaker 3: stick it out here because as you know, I mean,

376
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,040
Speaker 3: even in the southern Michigan, the odds of a good

377
00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,080
Speaker 3: buck moving in daylight are very very minimal, especially up here,

378
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 3: and the higher percentage is going to be right at

379
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 3: the krack of daylight and dusk. So where are they

380
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:26,840
Speaker 3: gonna be It's not gonna be anywhere near food. It's

381
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:28,960
Speaker 3: be anywhere near those dish out scrapes on top of

382
00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:31,080
Speaker 3: the ridge, especially with cameras and ladders by them. It's

383
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,280
Speaker 3: gonna be really really close to their bed. And that's

384
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,359
Speaker 3: why I spent all my time there, even like early

385
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 3: on season. I the only time they're gonna be on

386
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,080
Speaker 3: their feet is when they're close to bed, and I

387
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,000
Speaker 3: just got them on the way out, and I just

388
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 3: got them on the way back in, unless I get

389
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,680
Speaker 3: lucky like I did the other night and they're rutting

390
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:49,119
Speaker 3: a little bit.

391
00:20:49,200 --> 00:21:02,760
Speaker 2: But that's nice when that happens. Yes, Yeah, give me

392
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,480
Speaker 2: some more detail on the other things you're looking for

393
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,080
Speaker 2: when you're scouting. So it sounds like you're looking for

394
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 2: the obvious, you know, the thickest stuff. You're looking for

395
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 2: standard deer sign and maybe not the most concentration of them,

396
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,280
Speaker 2: more so like the off the radar, smaller spots near

397
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 2: the thick Is there anything else when you're out there

398
00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 2: scouting that tells you like, okay, yes this is an area.

399
00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the one thing when it comes to like

400
00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 3: those particular areas is you think about, like, where are

401
00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 3: they going to feel safe and where can they escape

402
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,400
Speaker 3: multiple areas, because another big thing that I come into

403
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,800
Speaker 3: contact with here is a tremendous amount of bird hunters.

404
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of grouse hunters and they pound

405
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:48,199
Speaker 3: the ground from the fifteenth through December, and a lot

406
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,439
Speaker 3: of the good betting areas when they do the little

407
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 3: timber cuts and things like that, are like the best

408
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,119
Speaker 3: betting areas for white tails and their best areas for

409
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 3: grouse and woodcot These deer are getting jumped all the time.

410
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 3: I mean they're getting bumped from their bed all the time.

411
00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 3: So I like to go in those spots where like

412
00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 3: they have multiple accesses to it's going to be the

413
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,239
Speaker 3: place where they just feel like the most safe. So

414
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 3: I look at where I know a lot of guys

415
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 3: bird hunt, Where do a lot of the deer, where

416
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 3: are they're going to go? And what makes the most

417
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 3: sense to be safe when you're constantly being jumped And

418
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 3: I think, I mean it's not like new information that

419
00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 3: people talk about it all the time, but you know,

420
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,439
Speaker 3: when they survive being jumped multiple times, I think they

421
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 3: just like, Okay, that worked, that worked, that worked, that worked.

422
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:36,199
Speaker 3: So I just looked for those spots that make the

423
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 3: most sense where you're going to survive with that much

424
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 3: disruption on a day to day basis, you know. So,

425
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 3: like you said, there's not going to be a ton

426
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:48,439
Speaker 3: of scrapes there. Those are all where up on the

427
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,160
Speaker 3: ridges where everybody's got their cell cameras on, I'm looking

428
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 3: for there's a handful of rubs going into just this

429
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,040
Speaker 3: nasty pocket of grass or something like that.

430
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,200
Speaker 2: What about just edges in our edges to you, because

431
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,399
Speaker 2: that's that's something I've started trying to key in on

432
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 2: up in our area, is there's there's not as many

433
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 2: obvious edges. But I've started wondering, like, are these back

434
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 2: in the timber edges of a deciduous forest and a

435
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 2: cedary pocket or the edges of a cedary pocket and

436
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 2: then cattail area. Are they using those edges almost like

437
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 2: a travel corridor down For me, in southern Michigan, it

438
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,200
Speaker 2: might be a thin strip of timber as a funnel,

439
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 2: But in northern Michigan maybe it's just the edge of

440
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,280
Speaker 2: swamp and high ground and they're they're traveling along that

441
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 2: in a similar fashion. Can you tell me if that's

442
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 2: something that factors in it all and if so, what

443
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 2: are you looking at.

444
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:44,159
Speaker 3: I think that's paramot. I mean that's huge, Like you

445
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,239
Speaker 3: have to find that little teeny I don't care if

446
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 3: it's a soft first obviously it's creeks and waterways and

447
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 3: stuff that's automatically going to shove stuff locations. The little

448
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 3: teeny differences are just like huge. And up here they

449
00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 3: a lot of like cutting, so things can rotate. Like

450
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 3: I was just talking about one of my favorite stands cut.

451
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 3: I can't remember how many acres created all, you know,

452
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 3: a bunch of new edges, right, but even down on

453
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,639
Speaker 3: the thick stuff, like it turns from cedar to like

454
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 3: tall grass, it turns from cedar to like spruce, It

455
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 3: turns some cedar to a popple cut a little teeny rise.

456
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 3: You know those things. My eyes just go to them,

457
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,320
Speaker 3: you know. I mean, and I think, like you said,

458
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 3: like it makes a world of difference because usually when

459
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 3: there's a change, there is some sort of sign there.

460
00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 3: So it's like that's absolutely paramount. That's why when I

461
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 3: see the big parky stuff in the Federal Line, I

462
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 3: just wander and go like I have no idea where

463
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,439
Speaker 3: I would ever go here. And that's why I never do.

464
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 3: I just stick to I love looking for the features.

465
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 3: They show the way, all right.

466
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 2: So let's imagine, uh, November arrives and you do not

467
00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,680
Speaker 2: have both buck tags filled already.

468
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 4: You do right now.

469
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 2: You're one of the lucky few Michigan hunters that has

470
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,959
Speaker 2: both your buck tags failed. You've had a great season.

471
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 2: But let's say you've got tag still in your pocket.

472
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 2: November is here. Can you describe to me a couple

473
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 2: of your ideal November ambush locations and in detail, like

474
00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 2: paint a couple of pictures for me. I'd love to hear,

475
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 2: like the kind of spot that you find and that

476
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 2: you spend some quality timing in November.

477
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,159
Speaker 3: A very large chunk of my rut locations are based

478
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 3: on water. I know with water, there's going to be

479
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,880
Speaker 3: funnels automatically, Yeah they do crosswater, of course, but there's

480
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 3: gonna be marsh grass. I like going to places where

481
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 3: they disappear to or the bigger bucks in the area

482
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 3: they feel more comfortable pursuing, Like sure you're gonna see

483
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,880
Speaker 3: the random one running across fields chasin does, but that

484
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 3: doesn't just does not happen very often. So, just like

485
00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,879
Speaker 3: I said, I have fine rivers, I fine water, and

486
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,439
Speaker 3: I like to go to areas where like you know,

487
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 3: when it comes to either you know, lockdown or whatever,

488
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 3: the bigger bucks don't mind chasing in there. The does

489
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 3: will be in there and they'll actually be more active chasing.

490
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,400
Speaker 3: So like recently, that deer I shot just the other day.

491
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 3: It's early, I mean it was two days ago and

492
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 3: it's relatively early. I mean it's pre run, of course,

493
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 3: but he was bird dog and just like a dog

494
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 3: looking for his tennis ball in the backyard. After a

495
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:34,400
Speaker 3: four point came through with a dough. He came through

496
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 3: five minutes later, and he was like he was trying

497
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,959
Speaker 3: to find her, but I was in thick stuff. You know.

498
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 3: He wasn't like venturing out on an oak ridge exposing himself.

499
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 3: He was down in it. So if I'm gonna run

500
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 3: on all my spots are you know, extremely funnel specific,

501
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 3: always look for water. Most of my rough spots always

502
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 3: have at least a creek, a river or something. And

503
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 3: I am where they're going to funnel down. Because you know,

504
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,959
Speaker 3: you're a numbers nerd when it comes to you, I've

505
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 3: seen your spreadsheets and all that stuff. I mean, it

506
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 3: really is it's you're playing. You're playing the odds, So like,

507
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 3: where am I going to be and where am I

508
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 3: going to be able to kill a big one? Because

509
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 3: not only does he have to be here, but he

510
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 3: also has to be within range of me to get him.

511
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 3: So I know you were talking about it earlier this

512
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 3: year about shrinking your range, like your actual archery range

513
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 3: to eliminate some of the variables. You know, So not

514
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 3: only do I have to find where an actual shooter

515
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 3: is going to hang out, but I also want to

516
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:41,480
Speaker 3: make sure because more you get one shot, like I figure,

517
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 3: like in a year, I'm probably going to have one shot,

518
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 3: and that'll be a great year if I get a shot,

519
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 3: which is totally different from a lot of other people

520
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 3: that are entering the honeywheel, Like like literally been planning

521
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 3: all year long for maybe drawing the bullbag once it

522
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 3: better be near me, I better be able to kill it,

523
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:03,840
Speaker 3: so I don't sit in a location where I get

524
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 3: to see about two hundred yards off dog in the

525
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 3: door or something like. If I'm gonna I gotta be

526
00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 3: where he is and he's gonna be right there, and

527
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 3: I got to be able to have a chance to

528
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 3: kill it. So rivers helped me, and you know, topography's

529
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 3: got to get him near that tree I'm in.

530
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 2: Help me understand what a funnel like? So near river

531
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 2: or creek, what's the funnel look like in that situation

532
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,560
Speaker 2: that you're keying in unduring the rut? Is it when

533
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 2: you say a funnel, is it literally the cover pinches

534
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: down around that or is it like, uh, I don't know,

535
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 2: tell me more.

536
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: Yeah. One one location I hunt has a you know,

537
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 3: it's an old cattle passure, so it literally has an old,

538
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 3: overgrown fence and automn olive that for the most part,

539
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 3: is impenetrable. It's been there for years and years and

540
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 3: years and creates a gap about ten yards wide to

541
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,239
Speaker 3: a river that drops down. So I mean it's a

542
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 3: literal block. And I know if I sit there long enough,

543
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 3: because the timber that connects these larger farms, they're gonna

544
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 3: go by there. I just got to be there, and

545
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 3: I had to be in the right tree, and I

546
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 3: had to be ready for it. So it's a literal

547
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 3: wall of autumnilive and wire and then a river. So

548
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 3: it's a very literal funnel. But like the one I

549
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 3: was sitting in the other day, it's a transition from

550
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 3: cedar spruce too, opens up to a little bit of

551
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 3: like tall grass and like that scraggly poppole and something

552
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 3: that's really changed things up here. I believe it's happened

553
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 3: down there too, Like the ash trees, right, all your

554
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: ash trees are basically the mature ones have been falling

555
00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 3: for what is it, almost ten years now, totally open

556
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,440
Speaker 3: the canopy up in weird spots in swamps. So some

557
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: of my spots I've been hunting for years. It's amazing

558
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 3: how different they look because they're predominantly ash and then pine.

559
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 3: All those ash have died, and now we get a

560
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 3: lot of grass, you know, because it's getting sunlight now.

561
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 3: So where I was hunting the other day, it was

562
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 3: just a change from cedar and spruce to tall grass

563
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 3: and like new popple, you know, and finding like beds

564
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: along the line, like right underneath the ceedars matting down

565
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 3: that grass around that edge is where I was. So

566
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: it's an edge within a swap, is what I was

567
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 3: hunting the other day.

568
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I read one of your pieces and you were

569
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: describing a tight cedar funnel, and I see cedars all

570
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 2: over the place where I hunt, But I don't know

571
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,680
Speaker 2: if I ever found a cedar funnel, I'd be curious

572
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 2: to hear what you meant by that and what.

573
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, So it's literally in some cases it's like, so

574
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 3: there's ridges around where I live in and basically at

575
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 3: the bottom of this ridge, it goes straight from cedar

576
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,239
Speaker 3: and a little creek to straight popple and then up

577
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 3: to oak. So there's literally just a little band of

578
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 3: cedars running right down the bottom of this valley that

579
00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 3: eventually gets into a larger band of cedars, you know,

580
00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: So that the cut was probably fifteen years ago, you know,

581
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: so they left the ceedar down there, and now it's

582
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 3: all poppole that's really high now with the sporadic oak.

583
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,880
Speaker 3: So it's twenty yards wide of cedar on the bottom

584
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 3: is and it goes about one hundred yards back into

585
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 3: a larger group of seedar. So it's literally a tight.

586
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 2: And so have you found like inside a forest where

587
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: there's maybe mostly deciduous forest and then you have these

588
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,120
Speaker 2: pockets of seaters or strips of ceedars. Do you see

589
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,960
Speaker 2: that the deer will prefer to travel along and or

590
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 2: bed in those pockets of cedars where you have that

591
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 2: just different thing.

592
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, is that right? I mean like edges, I mean

593
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 3: like those little edges like we were talking about earlier.

594
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 3: At least you're gonna see that's we're gonna they're gonna

595
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 3: drop like a strap a scrape there and the point

596
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 3: of that or or check that edge, because dose will

597
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 3: be hanging out there because the bird hunters had pushed

598
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 3: them out of the popple cuts and they headed down

599
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 3: into all the dead falls and under the seedars to

600
00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 3: get out of the way because they're probably gonna stick

601
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,440
Speaker 3: to the poppol for woodcut like that. So it's literally

602
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 3: where you'll find that, you know, the couple meaningful scrapes

603
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 3: and rubs down there, you know.

604
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you hunt any places that are so thick

605
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 2: so much of the time that it's like impossible to

606
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 2: decide where the best thick stuff is or where the

607
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 2: betting is because it all seems like it could be.

608
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 2: That's something I've encountered in parts where like there's so

609
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: much swamp, there's so much of this thick edge and

610
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: stuff that it's just endless, And then I'm looking at

611
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 2: it all and saying, well, where the heck do you

612
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 2: how do you pick a spot within this massive area

613
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: of thick and I almost start thinking, like, maybe you're

614
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 2: looking for the opposite, you're looking for the opening in

615
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 2: the thick, because that makes it different. Is that something

616
00:32:44,440 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 2: you have any experience with.

617
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, there's a lot of challenges that come with

618
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,440
Speaker 3: hunting thick stuff. There's been a couple of spots where

619
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 3: I said, like, okay, this is the only literal place

620
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 3: they can walk through here, and then I'll see them

621
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 3: going through where I thought it was impossible, like the

622
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 3: weird Cedar dead fall, Like how do they even get

623
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 3: through there? You think they'd have to avoid and go

624
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,360
Speaker 3: by me? And they don't. A lot of my spots too,

625
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 3: if I go set them up, and like late summer,

626
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 3: they look ridiculous because you get up there and the

627
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 3: smaller trees still have their leaves on it, and it's

628
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 3: like how do I even shoot anything in here? But

629
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 3: once the leaves kind of fall down, like okay, now

630
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 3: we have an option. So up here, like you said,

631
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 3: there are some giant, giant swamps, and the only way

632
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,239
Speaker 3: you can kind of find out, I mean a lot

633
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 3: of trial and error, like work your way in like okay,

634
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 3: that's two times in a row. They've gone over there.

635
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 3: Let's go see why they have making an adjustment. You're like, okay,

636
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 3: there's two dead falls, two root balls that make like

637
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 3: a little channel, and they like that one. So that's

638
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 3: a big aspect because it can be just like the

639
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 3: parky for us. Some of these cedar swamps up here.

640
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 3: It's like, okay, just a long long way and even

641
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 3: when you think you haven't narrowed down, no, they'll go

642
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 3: right through that car app too. So you have to

643
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 3: find like the little mini travel corridors too there and

644
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 3: that's what helps in the spring. That's why I always

645
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 3: go out in the spring in late winter, because they're

646
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 3: a little more madded down.

647
00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about cuts? You've mentioned cuts a couple times,

648
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 2: and that's one of the first things I think a

649
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: lot of guys can kind of wrap their head around

650
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 2: when they're hunting big timber areas. It's like, Okay, that

651
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,239
Speaker 2: seems obvious. There's that there's been some form of cut there.

652
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 2: We have some form of sunlight reaching the floor, we

653
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 2: have some kinds of edges. How do how do those

654
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 2: factor into your rut strategy?

655
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 3: Huge Greek because they can they leave a couple oaks

656
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 3: in there, and this year we actually have some acorns.

657
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 3: It's been three years about acorns, which really changes things

658
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 3: around here. There's there's spots where I hunt. I might

659
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 3: as well sit in Walmart parking lot if there's not acorns.

660
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:52,439
Speaker 3: If there's acorns, it's going to be a good year

661
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 3: in this this little spot because they will bed and

662
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 3: we'll use this ridge. There's no acorns, don't even bother

663
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 3: set in a stand, you're wasting hours. So the thing

664
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 3: about the cuts that are unique is they leave those

665
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 3: big oaks and so maybe you know they have the

666
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 3: tall grass, they love eating the popples. The popple shoots also,

667
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 3: and then when the popple will drop their leaves, you

668
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 3: still these giant oaks that are they're rain and acorns.

669
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 3: It makes it difficult to hunt because you can't set

670
00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 3: up in there, so then you're like you fall back

671
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 3: to the edge. So it can be a little maddening

672
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 3: sometimes because you can see them in there. You can

673
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,200
Speaker 3: see them chasing in there, but they stay there. They

674
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 3: don't come out of it because they have everything. They

675
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 3: have cover, they have food, they have bedding. You know,

676
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 3: they can hang out and then in the dose like

677
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 3: it they have, you know, the acorns in there later on,

678
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 3: it makes it for me like that makes that one

679
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 3: spot of mind so disheartening. You basically can't hunt that

680
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 3: spot for years and years and years until those popples

681
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 3: get big and bunch die and they starts to park again.

682
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 3: So you just you're left with that edge and it

683
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 3: can be very difficult because I would just talking to

684
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 3: one of my friends today, is he's got a spot.

685
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 3: He's seen a couple of nice shooters, but they just

686
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 3: don't come out of there, and you can't get a

687
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 3: stand in there.

688
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,359
Speaker 2: So there's so so is it worth hunting the edge

689
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:12,239
Speaker 2: at all? In hopes that you can pull them up?

690
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 3: Can you?

691
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 2: Can you call them out? Do they ever cruise that

692
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 2: edge or do they do they check the downwind side

693
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 2: of it during the run? Is that effective?

694
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,359
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, the down one side. And then if

695
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 3: you can find that spot where maybe they want to

696
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 3: go cut the cut, you know, like maybe they need

697
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 3: to check things out, they need to travel. So sometimes

698
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 3: these cuts will come and they'll they'll stop a cut

699
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 3: where it's an old mature ridge, so they'll belly around

700
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 3: that mature ridge and stay to that one little point

701
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 3: rather than going over the top, they stay around that

702
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 3: point and they stick to that particular part of the cut,

703
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 3: you know, So once again finding that little bit of

704
00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 3: differentiation within these cuts. You know, maybe like I said,

705
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 3: that little tight seedar funnel pops into one. Now you've

706
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,279
Speaker 3: got a ceedar tree you can sit in, and they're

707
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 3: going to go around that point of that usually have

708
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 3: a scrape on the end of it. So like the

709
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 3: minor differentiation is huge with those. So yeah, it's it

710
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 3: can be manning. You can see them and hear them

711
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 3: out there. But if you can find that one little

712
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:09,479
Speaker 3: thing that makes them want to go maybe to another cut,

713
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 3: a little teeny corridor that attaches to cuts, that's what

714
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 3: you have to look for, all right.

715
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 2: So so differentiation around clearcuts, finding some of these interior edges,

716
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 2: the thickest stuff we can find, any kind of funnel,

717
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: especially around water. Are there any other major rut type

718
00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 2: locations that you really like to ken on during during

719
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,799
Speaker 2: the month of November that we haven't covered yet?

720
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:42,359
Speaker 3: You know, I do like going I always like going

721
00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,319
Speaker 3: near their beds, but I like to just know, I

722
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 3: like to go where I feel like they're not risking it.

723
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 3: Trying to go find another dough like I like. I

724
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 3: think they like to find them around here where they

725
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,880
Speaker 3: know they're not putting themselves in danger. I've seen a

726
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 3: lot of awesome or heard a lot of rud active

727
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 3: because I can't see them, which is another part about

728
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 3: being thick. I've heard allow of them chasing in those

729
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 3: swamps because I think they just feel comfortable in there.

730
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 3: They're not exposing themselves. Those do lay in there, and

731
00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 3: then sometimes when they find that hot dough, they can

732
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 3: kind of maybe hide, you know, they can get into

733
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,719
Speaker 3: one of those pockets and maybe have them to themselves,

734
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 3: you know, because it is so thick, they're not risking it.

735
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 3: So I love being you know. Some of my favorite

736
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:29,520
Speaker 3: spots like that one fence I was talking about. It's

737
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 3: super super thick on the back of a cattle pasture.

738
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 3: They're not going to walk across that pasture during the day.

739
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 3: They have that one little area that they can get

740
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 3: through to go to another chunk of property. It's stopped

741
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 3: by an elbow over river. It's literally blocked by a

742
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 3: wall of bottom. All of they're gonna come look for it.

743
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:49,839
Speaker 3: They're gonna come through there and go transfer from farm

744
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,240
Speaker 3: to farm through that little teeny spot, and I feel

745
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 3: like they're just comfortable chasing in there. They're not exposing themselves.

746
00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 3: Even like the guys shot the other night. It's really on.

747
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 3: He was acting really silly for mature buck up here,

748
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 3: But I don't think he felt like he was exposing himself.

749
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,959
Speaker 3: You know, he felt like it was free to reign

750
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 3: in there without being in danger.

751
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: What about when gun season hits? So when this episode airs,

752
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: it should be airing November fourteenth, So there's gonna be

753
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,000
Speaker 2: a lot of folks listening to this right right as

754
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 2: gun seasons. Yeah, gun season kicking off in Michigan, and

755
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,759
Speaker 2: you know many other states their gun season kickoff middle

756
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 2: of November or late November. You know, Thanksgivings coming up soon.

757
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 3: This is this is a.

758
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 2: Time when a lot of people and a lot of

759
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 2: things are shifting gears in the woods. Do your hunt

760
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,799
Speaker 2: locations change during the gun season or is it more

761
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 2: of the same because you're already in thick stuff.

762
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 3: So very similar to my longest archery shot being you know,

763
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: just over thirty yards, My longest rifle shot is seventy.

764
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: I love it.

765
00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 4: I love it, seventy.

766
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,479
Speaker 3: Yards with the old carbon, you know, thirty odds. It's

767
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 3: when it comes to rifle, it's where are they going

768
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 3: to go? I mean it honestly, it's really it's it's

769
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 3: kind of weird to think about. Right around like one

770
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:18,320
Speaker 3: o'clock on November fifteenth, it's like, well, deer done doing

771
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 3: deer things where I live, It's over. I mean it

772
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 3: really is. Now. Yeah, you might catch one running here

773
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,840
Speaker 3: and there, but when it comes to like feed to

774
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 3: bad patterning is done. I mean deer doing deer things,

775
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 3: and that is straight up over. So when it comes

776
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 3: to rifles, like where are they hiding, it's just like

777
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 3: where are they running away? You're basically hunting hunters. Is

778
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 3: where what I'm doing, like where are they going to run?

779
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 3: When the melee takes place for that first day? So

780
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 3: it's I guess you could say more of the same,

781
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 3: but I am not even mean, I guess you consider sign.

782
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: I'm just looking for where they're going to go to.

783
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: Hide, and is there anything else other than just the

784
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,480
Speaker 2: thickest stuff that they find as being the hiding spots.

785
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 3: Well, that's where you really get into who's going to walk?

786
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 3: That's where you can really separate yourself like where with

787
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,200
Speaker 3: the Boseason, I'll look for those maybe little hidi holes

788
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,200
Speaker 3: that aren't that far of a walk. It's just actually

789
00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:18,840
Speaker 3: a good location for them to go. That's where you

790
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 3: can start differentiating yourself up here, is like how far

791
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 3: are you willing to walk? And how far are you like,

792
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 3: you know, let's think walking around in the dark finding

793
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 3: these swamp spots. It's not easy. It's not easy at all.

794
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 3: So if you're willing to do that, you can separate

795
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,040
Speaker 3: yourself from some other individuals. And that's where I think

796
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 3: you can really make your mark, is like how far

797
00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 3: are you willing to go into that hell hole to

798
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,399
Speaker 3: get away from everybody else? So that's when I really

799
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 3: consider that.

800
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a little different hiking in a northern

801
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 2: Michigan or northern Minnesota, deep dark, sketchy swamp than it

802
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 2: is walking along a cornfield edge, that's for sure.

803
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, for sure.

804
00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, Or dragging.

805
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 3: It out, dragging out. That's the other thing is I've

806
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 3: one of my favorite rifle spots that I've had some

807
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 3: luck over the last couple of years. It's an absolute

808
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:14,480
Speaker 3: nightmare to get a deer out. Nightmare. So not many

809
00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:16,319
Speaker 3: maybe people just rule it out right there that I'm

810
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 3: not going there. I can never get off.

811
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 2: So other than going to the darkest, nastiest, hard to

812
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 2: get to hell holes during gun season, is there anything

813
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:36,960
Speaker 2: else unique you're doing once gun season hits? Are you

814
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 2: hunting different hours, longer hours, shorter hours? Are you doing

815
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: anything different tactic wise? I don't know what that might be,

816
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:47,160
Speaker 2: But is there anything unique on the gun side of things?

817
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 3: Oh that's the other thing too that's like disappointing, is

818
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 3: you know, when it comes to the rifle season up period,

819
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 3: why bother bring a grunk call? Why bother bring you

820
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 3: all those other things? You know, it's just it's just

821
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,439
Speaker 3: you're you're at the the mercy of what everybody else

822
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 3: is doing. And the other thing about being up here

823
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,040
Speaker 3: as well, as you know with your family deer camp,

824
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 3: is that there's historical spots, right. I mean, no matter

825
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 3: what property you're going to, that's for so and so hunts,

826
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 3: that's for so and so hunts, that's for so and

827
00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 3: so hunts, And it's just like things have been established.

828
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 3: It's kind of funny around here, you know, even on

829
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 3: state lands, like we don't go there because that's where

830
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,719
Speaker 3: those guys go. We don't go there because that's where

831
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 3: they go, and we're in the area where I hunt

832
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 3: around my house. It's extremely established. It's like finding a

833
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,800
Speaker 3: spot's difficult because until somebody dies or gives up, you

834
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 3: know what I mean, it's like just dives or like quits.

835
00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:45,799
Speaker 3: It's like, well, we just don't go there. They've been

836
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 3: there since they're sixteen, Okay, we don't go there. And

837
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 3: so it's it's kind of unique because rifle season is

838
00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 3: such a tradition. It's like, well, you can't even worry

839
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 3: about wind because you have your spot, you know, for

840
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 3: the most part. Because I was just looking at one

841
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 3: of your recent articles while you're sitting in camps, like

842
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 3: you don't even worry about wind. It's like, because I'm

843
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:12,480
Speaker 3: going to sit my spot because I have nowhere else

844
00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 3: to go because everybody else has been established on in

845
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 3: my camp or whatever. So it's it's such a different

846
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 3: game for me. When the bow goes in the case,

847
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 3: it's just like, all right, here we go the rifle

848
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 3: and we'll see what happens, you know, which is always

849
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 3: why it's just so depressed. I mean, it's somewhat depressing

850
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 3: for me. It turns into more of a families there.

851
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,279
Speaker 3: Buck pulls are the main deal, and hopefully I can

852
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 3: be one that it was my turn.

853
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,439
Speaker 2: Yeah you know, I follow you, Okay, So zooming out

854
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,840
Speaker 2: of zooming, out of gun season, and just to November

855
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 2: in general, all day sits yes or no.

856
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, if I have the opportunity, if it's right, Like

857
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 3: you know, last November, you know, I was playing sitting

858
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 3: all day and I think I shot November two shot

859
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 3: eleven thirty. I shot the buck last year and then

860
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 3: last year rife season. I think I shot mine at

861
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 3: twelve thirty. So November fifteenth, twelve thirty, November second, eleven thirty,

862
00:45:18,480 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 3: I shot those deer, so the typical hunt until ten

863
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 3: I would have been still holding one of my tags.

864
00:45:26,520 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 3: So those are both midday deer right there, just in

865
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 3: the last year. So when it's the time here, especially

866
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 3: like I said, the spots, I like they feel as

867
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 3: comfortable as they can feel cruising those areas when it

868
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 3: comes to November. So if I can, I do it.

869
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 3: The hardest part is I got to pick the right

870
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 3: personal day, you know, and it's hard to do when

871
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:50,040
Speaker 3: you're looking at the weather. It's like, okay, when is

872
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 3: the weather going to match for me to sit all

873
00:45:51,680 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 3: day and try to pick those days.

874
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 2: So what is that kind of day like for I

875
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 2: can make some assumptions, but I'd love to hear from

876
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 2: you specifically, what's the kind of the conditions that the

877
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 2: date that what's it have to be for you to say, Okay,

878
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 2: I'm gonna I'm going to use the vacation day or

879
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,479
Speaker 2: use the hey family, Sorry, I got a hunt today card.

880
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. So like last week and you know in Michigan,

881
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 3: you know, it was highs in the forties. It was

882
00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: a Sunday morning. It was twenty four degrees up here

883
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 3: in the morning, nice and it was like the overcast

884
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 3: really bucky stuff. I mean, that's the stuff if you're

885
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,919
Speaker 3: a hunter. You can look on the map, go high

886
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 3: at twenty four, overcast, five mile an hour, steady wind

887
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,280
Speaker 3: five to ten perfect. You know this week seventy five,

888
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 3: it was seventy something here today. Yeah, I think on

889
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 3: Friday it's going to be a high of forty two

890
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 3: up here. You know, after three days or seventies, let's

891
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 3: you know that big change get out there. But I

892
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 3: just had a buddy text me before we went on.

893
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 3: It's the most diaries seen this year this tonight, and

894
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 3: it was seventy something here as far as deer numbers,

895
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 3: no shooters, but we saw the most deer. So I mean,

896
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 3: it's always a crapshoot, But if I have the chance to,

897
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 3: like this Friday, I was actually going to take a

898
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 3: personal day to go hunting because it's three days of

899
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 3: rain and hot and it was down in the forties. Again,

900
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 3: I had my personal day planned and luckily I didn't

901
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:13,480
Speaker 3: pull the trigger.

902
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 2: Didn't need it.

903
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:15,799
Speaker 3: I kept in the bank.

904
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: Uh huh smart. Okay, that that all makes sense. I'm

905
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 2: tracking with that. And and here's the next kind of

906
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,239
Speaker 2: related thing, Yeah, which is when you hunt all day,

907
00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 2: you know you're you're committing to a location and you're

908
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 2: giving it time, and you're hoping for that midday movement.

909
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 2: And something I found and really I've debated this even

910
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:41,439
Speaker 2: in high deer density areas, but I think it's even

911
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 2: more important in low deer density areas, like any kind

912
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,719
Speaker 2: of big woods habitat, or the northern any part of

913
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:51,439
Speaker 2: the part of the really upper Midwest, upper Northeast, those

914
00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:54,279
Speaker 2: types of places. Is how much time you give a

915
00:47:54,480 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 2: specific location, Right, there's a there's a tendency, especially now

916
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 2: with everyone it'd being so trendy to be mobile, there's

917
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 2: the tendency to want to bounce around a lot. Like

918
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:08,560
Speaker 2: I tried this spot this morning, I should try somewhere

919
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 2: new in the evening and tomorrow and I try a

920
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 2: new place. I'm always going to keep the deer on

921
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 2: their toes. I'm surprised them and right it's the exact

922
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 2: opposite of what it used to be where you would

923
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 2: camp out one spot forever, because like you was described

924
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 2: during gun season, where some people still do that, but

925
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 2: you know, and worry sometimes I even go too far

926
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 2: that way where I move too much and I don't

927
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 2: give a spot enough time. How do you how do

928
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,360
Speaker 2: you think about that? How do you balance giving a

929
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:37,319
Speaker 2: place enough time versus moving around?

930
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 3: So, I mean, I'm not the oldest guy in the

931
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 3: worlds guys, I put a lot more time in than myself.

932
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 3: But I guess I've learned through time that it just

933
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,719
Speaker 3: like it pays to be patient and like some of

934
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 3: my spots, even if I've some of my favorite favorite spots,

935
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:56,439
Speaker 3: even if I've blown something out of there, I feel

936
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 3: like deer are jumped so much. It doesn't make me

937
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 3: panic as much. So one of my spots I've shot

938
00:49:03,719 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 3: the most of my most of my larger bucks. Out

939
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 3: of there's some years where it's just brutal. I have

940
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 3: no idea why, because it's a round pasture and it

941
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:17,360
Speaker 3: connects some egg. Some years it's just amazing, and some

942
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 3: years like I get skunked. I mean, I'll be skunk

943
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 3: five times in a row, and then I'll go two

944
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,240
Speaker 3: years where I sat there once and shot a dandy,

945
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:27,919
Speaker 3: and I sat there another time and shot a dandy,

946
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 3: and then I'll go another year I'll get skunked five times.

947
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,400
Speaker 3: Being skunked where I live and being skunked in my

948
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 3: spots is not a typical. Not only am I really

949
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 3: really in tight quarters, which means you're not going to

950
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 3: see much. I get skunked a lot. I mean, so

951
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 3: let's see, I sat seven times this year, and I

952
00:49:48,680 --> 00:49:51,960
Speaker 3: think three of those times I saw deer, So four

953
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,799
Speaker 3: out of those times I didn't see anything. So I

954
00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 3: got seven times too.

955
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 2: I was gonna say, so you only saw deer on

956
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 2: three hunts and you killed a good buck on two

957
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 2: out of the three.

958
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:03,080
Speaker 5: That's yeah, that's.

959
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 2: Pretty good batting percentage. Yeah, I mean it's yeah, but

960
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,399
Speaker 2: then four complete blanks complete.

961
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, not even in the game. It felt like there

962
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 3: is I was the only person out there, just total,

963
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:17,719
Speaker 3: total dead, And that, honestly kind of just sounds like

964
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 3: all my seasons just nothing, nothing, nothing, and then shot one.

965
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 3: You know, that's very typical for me. So how do

966
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:28,680
Speaker 3: you know I'm a gut for punishment? I guess it's

967
00:50:28,719 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 3: just yeah.

968
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, So how do you know when to stay versus

969
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: when to go? Like, is there do you have a set?

970
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:38,560
Speaker 2: Like I know some people have. I can't remember who

971
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 2: it was, maybe with Steve Shirk or someone like that

972
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 2: who hunts big woods in Pennsylvania or someone else like

973
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 2: that who who kind of say like three three days

974
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 2: per spot or or at least two days and if

975
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:50,760
Speaker 2: nothing happens in two days, well then I'm pulling Outy.

976
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:52,800
Speaker 2: Do you have a rule or is it something different

977
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 2: for you?

978
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 3: I don't necessarily have a rule. I kind of just

979
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:58,680
Speaker 3: used the gut and like that self talk which every

980
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:02,240
Speaker 3: hunter has, like you know, it's gonna happen. It's happened

981
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,719
Speaker 3: to you a million times. Eventually it's gonna work out.

982
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,760
Speaker 3: And one of the things that I kind of attribute

983
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 3: that helps me with that is the time I spend

984
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:16,320
Speaker 3: with like trapping. I spend a lot of time trapping

985
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 3: in the winter, and I actually wrote about that, which

986
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 3: is kind of weird having a trapping article in a

987
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 3: bowl hunting magazine. But it builds your callous up for

988
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 3: just failure. You know, every time I think I got

989
00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 3: stuff set up that's going to be great, I walk

990
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 3: up to empty stuff. You know, it's like, all right, well,

991
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 3: next time it's gonna be full. And then you have

992
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,759
Speaker 3: two traps that are empty, like next time. You know,

993
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,640
Speaker 3: it's just I guess I can take a punch or

994
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 3: something like that. I don't know what it is, but

995
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 3: it helps train me to you've done this before. You know,

996
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 3: you've skunk three times. But it all takes that one sit.

997
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 3: So if it just doesn't feel like if it gets desperate,

998
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 3: I might do like a quick little skull like okay,

999
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,560
Speaker 3: I got to see what's on the ground. I gotta

1000
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:03,600
Speaker 3: see it, like is it really being you know, used

1001
00:52:03,640 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 3: at all? And that's why, like I said, a couple

1002
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,279
Speaker 3: of spots of without acre, I learned that you know

1003
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 3: the hard way, Like, okay, looking in my notes, acorn year,

1004
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 3: great non acre year, total waste of time. So don't

1005
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,479
Speaker 3: even do it this year. It looks nice you shot

1006
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 3: a deer there last year, but there's no acorns. Don't

1007
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 3: bother so and and this is where a lot of

1008
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:26,960
Speaker 3: people can use cameras too to really that can be

1009
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 3: a boost in the movie. Right.

1010
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,880
Speaker 2: So, so you said you don't use cameras anymore.

1011
00:52:33,160 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, why, I don't know. Well, I used it a

1012
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 3: handful of years ago, and they're really effective. And I've

1013
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:49,440
Speaker 3: been taking in outdoor media content since i was a

1014
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 3: little kid. I mean, whatever I could watch, whatever I

1015
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,560
Speaker 3: could read. I always have been a magazine guy. I've

1016
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:00,560
Speaker 3: always been a honting movie guy. From Monster Bucks to

1017
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 3: Dan Fitzgerald here in Michigan. You gotta go Dan Fitzgerald, right, yeah,

1018
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 3: I mean come on, I mean VHS stuff. Consume all

1019
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 3: those things, so I still consume it a lot. And

1020
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 3: for me watching some of the things on television now,

1021
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 3: I feel like it's surveillance, you know. I mean I

1022
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 3: literally listened to a guy talk about how he didn't

1023
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 3: have his camera go off within the next half hour.

1024
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 3: He's gonna get out of his stand because if it

1025
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 3: comes that late, he'll probably just spook it. Anyway, or

1026
00:53:29,640 --> 00:53:31,960
Speaker 3: you see those stands, you know they're like, oh, that

1027
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 3: camera went off, We're gonna stick it out. It just

1028
00:53:35,239 --> 00:53:38,280
Speaker 3: feels a little ichy to me. Yeah, I'm not saying

1029
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 3: it's wrong. They're ridiculously effective to the point where it's

1030
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:47,920
Speaker 3: just like I kind of like going back to the

1031
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 3: total surprise of I did my work. This looks like

1032
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 3: a great spot. It feels good. Let's see if I'm right,

1033
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 3: which is not as effective as using cameras, but I

1034
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 3: like it. Like I said, this is all I have

1035
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 3: for my hunt? Oh yeah, I have whitetail in Michigan.

1036
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 3: If every one is it twelve years maybe bear turkey

1037
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,320
Speaker 3: hunting squirrel that kinds have Like my big game adventure

1038
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:18,399
Speaker 3: is deer. So I kind of like the surprise. I mean,

1039
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,320
Speaker 3: the last two years, every book I've shot, no idea

1040
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 3: who they were. First time I laid eyes on, I

1041
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:28,439
Speaker 3: killed them. That's it. And the typical response is, got

1042
00:54:28,440 --> 00:54:31,240
Speaker 3: he pictures of this guy or whatever? Like nope, nothing,

1043
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 3: first time I saw him, I shot him.

1044
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 2: You know, I can't see the appeal to that. I

1045
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 2: can definitely see the appeal to that, And it's funny.

1046
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,759
Speaker 2: I have more and more conversations as of late with

1047
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,359
Speaker 2: folks who are kind of debating a similar change or

1048
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 2: switching away from sell cameras back to traditional cameras at least,

1049
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 2: or putting self imposed regulations of some kind on how

1050
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 2: they use sell cameras. I do something like that just

1051
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,479
Speaker 2: because it does seem like it's getting more and more

1052
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 2: something that's not quite hunting.

1053
00:55:03,880 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it's not.

1054
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 3: I don't think it's wrong. It was very like one

1055
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:11,319
Speaker 3: year that I use them. I really it helped me

1056
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 3: solve the riddle. And I had two great kills that year,

1057
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 3: and it really helped me narrow those things down. There's

1058
00:55:18,320 --> 00:55:23,480
Speaker 3: pre sell camera but it just seems just a little

1059
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 3: odd now that eighty acres, one hundred acres, so many

1060
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,400
Speaker 3: cameras on them. I mean, where I hunt. I was

1061
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 3: talking with my buddies the other day. You almost had

1062
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 3: to be careful where you take a leak anymore. It's right.

1063
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 3: I mean, it's like there's a scrape. I know, I'm

1064
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:42,840
Speaker 3: going to find a camera on it. You know, in

1065
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 3: front of every ladder there's a camera on it. On

1066
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:47,919
Speaker 3: the trails I'm walking, those cameras, I mean, I can't

1067
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,279
Speaker 3: imagine how many pictures. There are me around here when

1068
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 3: it comes to scouting and stuff, So it just it

1069
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 3: just feels weird. And I know they're really intriguing. It's fun.

1070
00:55:58,360 --> 00:56:01,359
Speaker 3: Why they have they take the cool those pictures. It

1071
00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 3: narrows things down. They have they motivate you, like I

1072
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 3: didn't see anything last night. They did move. They are here.

1073
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 3: And I think the other part too, that would drive

1074
00:56:10,080 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 3: me nuts to sell cameras is I'd have a hard

1075
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 3: time swallowing it is. If I picked a spot and

1076
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,440
Speaker 3: I got real time proof that they're at the other spot,

1077
00:56:17,960 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 3: that would just that would just hurt me so bad.

1078
00:56:20,800 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 3: I'd rather I don't want to know. I want to know, Yeah,

1079
00:56:24,280 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 3: I don't. That's I liked.

1080
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:28,480
Speaker 2: I set mine on a twenty four hour delay so

1081
00:56:28,520 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 2: that I never I never have to have that feeling.

1082
00:56:31,520 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 2: I'm never tempted to do something that's like real time

1083
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:37,200
Speaker 2: that make me feel icky. Yeah, that's been the best

1084
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 2: way I've found to do it. But but yes, having

1085
00:56:40,680 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: more separation I think is better personally, at least just

1086
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:44,279
Speaker 2: for me.

1087
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like the history. I like feeling like a

1088
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:50,000
Speaker 3: little kid. That's the that's the that's the best part.

1089
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:56,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, so kind of along these, not quite the same,

1090
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,280
Speaker 2: but a little bit of a similar theme of sorts.

1091
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:03,120
Speaker 2: I've heard you write about the importance of seat equity,

1092
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 2: and I think a lot of people with cell cameras especially,

1093
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 2: you get more and more people who are like, I'm

1094
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,480
Speaker 2: not gonna hunt because my buck isn't even daylighting yet

1095
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 2: on camera. Or it used to be just like ah,

1096
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:16,960
Speaker 2: weather's bad or something, I'm not gonna go hunt, and

1097
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,760
Speaker 2: now it's become like nobody wants to hunt unless their date,

1098
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 2: unless their target buck is daylighting right where they can

1099
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:24,720
Speaker 2: hunt him, and otherwise I'm gonna wait until he shows up.

1100
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:30,400
Speaker 2: You have a different approach. You advocate for seat equity.

1101
00:57:30,440 --> 00:57:32,960
Speaker 2: Can you can you tell me why that's important, especially

1102
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:37,000
Speaker 2: in November? Yeah, I mean, and what do you mean

1103
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 2: by that? Define that too?

1104
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean you learn by doing. You know, I'm

1105
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:46,000
Speaker 3: a reps guy. I played a lot of sports, and

1106
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 3: I played guitar, and the only way I ever got

1107
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,439
Speaker 3: better is just hours and hours and hours are doing

1108
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 3: it in hunting and trapping and that sort of thing.

1109
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:59,280
Speaker 3: The more you are out there, the more things are

1110
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 3: going to have and even when they're not desirable and

1111
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:07,360
Speaker 3: stuff that just doesn't make any sense, happens, and if

1112
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,320
Speaker 3: you're there, you get to capitalize. And it's happened to

1113
00:58:10,320 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 3: me enough to make me just go, yeah, gotta go.

1114
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,919
Speaker 3: And I don't get weeks off. I get a couple

1115
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 3: days off. I get a weekend, like hey, kids don't

1116
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 3: have anything going on. We got Wednesday night, you know,

1117
00:58:22,760 --> 00:58:26,040
Speaker 3: I got Friday night, and I'm going and I'm going

1118
00:58:26,120 --> 00:58:31,280
Speaker 3: to go. And because I've put in time, crazy things

1119
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:33,480
Speaker 3: that didn't make sense turn out for a dead deer.

1120
00:58:33,520 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 3: I mean a perfect example of this. On October second,

1121
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 3: I had a deer, which I'm sure you've seen, like

1122
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:45,960
Speaker 3: fawns that get the zoomies that just run for fun running. Yeah. Yeah.

1123
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 3: It was a half hour before dark. I heard something

1124
00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 3: running out of the river and it was a buck,

1125
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 3: a shooter buck. It ran one lap around me, ran

1126
00:58:55,400 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 3: back out in the river. It ran another loop, and

1127
00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:00,920
Speaker 3: it looked like it was trying to pivot around my

1128
00:59:01,040 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 3: tree like he was doing like an exercise. It did

1129
00:59:04,400 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 3: three laps around me, and on the fourth lap I

1130
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:09,640
Speaker 3: basically yelled at it and shot out at eighteen yards

1131
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 3: and it died forty yards from me. Wow, it made

1132
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 3: no sense. It made no sense. It was seventy some degrees,

1133
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:19,520
Speaker 3: but I was sitting, and if it wasn't sitting, I

1134
00:59:19,560 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 3: wouldn't see that ridiculous activity. And it resulted in the

1135
00:59:23,360 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 3: dead book, you know, and the things that you just

1136
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 3: learn from being out there screwing up, sitting on a

1137
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:36,640
Speaker 3: bad wind, forcing a spot. You just like, build up,

1138
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 3: build up that equity of eventually he is going to

1139
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,280
Speaker 3: come here, or you're picking up more tactics that, Okay,

1140
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,920
Speaker 3: that just didn't work. That was silly. I shouldn't have

1141
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,720
Speaker 3: done that, Or you get that buck with the zuomis

1142
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:53,680
Speaker 3: and he showed up in front of me, you know,

1143
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 3: or a coyote jumped something. I mean, I've killed enough

1144
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 3: things that didn't make any sense that it makes it

1145
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 3: worthwhile all for me to go. And you learn every time.

1146
01:00:03,520 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 3: You always learn, you know, it's just you learn by

1147
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:10,080
Speaker 3: screwing up. That's the truth.

1148
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:11,160
Speaker 5: A long.

1149
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 3: It's fun. I mean fun. I mean diesel peach. I mean,

1150
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 3: I only get so many times, so like I'm going,

1151
01:00:15,800 --> 01:00:17,440
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, it's a blast, So I'm going

1152
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:19,080
Speaker 3: to go out there and give it a whirl. You know.

1153
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:23,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, that's the truth. Along the same lines that

1154
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 2: you mentioned that you have this experience as a trapper,

1155
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 2: and you've alluded to how that's helped you as a

1156
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:29,520
Speaker 2: white tail hunter.

1157
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1158
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:33,240
Speaker 2: Are there any specific examples of things from trapping that

1159
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 2: you have then kind of applied into the whitetail world

1160
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 2: that have helped you?

1161
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, Funnels, you know, I mean, water edges, you know,

1162
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 3: cover you have to get an animal to go through

1163
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 3: this or this or whatever it might be. So it

1164
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 3: is the same exact mindset. I mean, I basically am

1165
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 3: carrying the same mindset from I mean all your long,

1166
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 3: I'm just changing genres. I'm looking at that edge, what

1167
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 3: is going to make that animal go here? And how

1168
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:04,920
Speaker 3: do I get something there either at my tree stand

1169
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:07,120
Speaker 3: or how do I get a three thirty in that

1170
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 3: spot that's going to make that animal go there? So

1171
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 3: kind along like the seed equity thing, you're basically like

1172
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:17,960
Speaker 3: constantly training your brain to look for that stuff. I'm

1173
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 3: sure you do this too. When you drive around, when

1174
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 3: you look at a woodlight, you're like, ooh, always like that.

1175
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 3: Oh that would be I'd have to go check that out.

1176
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:28,840
Speaker 3: And when I'm walking the woods. When you're a trapper,

1177
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 3: I mean you're looking for tracks all the time. You

1178
01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 3: learn things because you're always looking at the ground. You

1179
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:39,200
Speaker 3: learn about failure and just like any good like fishmen,

1180
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:42,280
Speaker 3: you fish with those guys that just catch.

1181
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 2: Fish, yeah, fishy fish dudes.

1182
01:01:44,280 --> 01:01:47,000
Speaker 3: Yeah Yeah, it's just like they know where to cast,

1183
01:01:47,080 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 3: they know what water to forget about. It's like because

1184
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 3: they've just seated enough. So the trapping is what's done.

1185
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 3: That for me is like I am constantly in that

1186
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,280
Speaker 3: mindset of like what is differentiating this spot to get

1187
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 3: an animal through that? Or how do I get them?

1188
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 3: And it's just constantly making my brain do that, and

1189
01:02:04,080 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 3: I think it's very beneficial.

1190
01:02:06,960 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And again just the serendipity of just being

1191
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,200
Speaker 2: outside enough you just see things and learn things that

1192
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:16,880
Speaker 2: you never would expect. I gotta believe by trapping, you're

1193
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 2: spending that many more days out there. You happen to

1194
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:21,080
Speaker 2: run across a great deer run, or you happen to

1195
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 2: find a shed antler, or you find a buckbed, or

1196
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:25,880
Speaker 2: who knows what stuff you find when you're out there,

1197
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 2: but I bet you found some stuff that's helped like

1198
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:28,919
Speaker 2: practically too.

1199
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:32,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, literally, And talk about a good way to get permission.

1200
01:02:33,400 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 3: You know, one of the spots I hounted. I mean

1201
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 3: I helped a farmer out with his irrigation with beavers.

1202
01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:40,560
Speaker 3: He had to spend a bunch of money on an

1203
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:43,400
Speaker 3: excavator to come in there. Didn't work. I said, just

1204
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:45,080
Speaker 3: give me a couple of days. I'll get him out

1205
01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 3: of there, and then you'll be problem solved. I got

1206
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 3: permission and to hunt that farm, or additional permission to

1207
01:02:51,880 --> 01:02:54,680
Speaker 3: hunt that farm as a result of helping that farmer out.

1208
01:02:55,280 --> 01:02:58,320
Speaker 3: And the other thing that you have to learn as

1209
01:02:58,320 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 3: a bull hunter, especially up here when it's just low density,

1210
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 3: is you have to learn failure and you got to

1211
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:07,560
Speaker 3: learn to take it, make a minor adjustment, and try again.

1212
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 3: And that is like that's trapping to a t tons

1213
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 3: of failure. You're usually gonna mess out.

1214
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:26,000
Speaker 2: Okay, I want to run through a couple last things

1215
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,360
Speaker 2: before we run out of time, and so I'm kind

1216
01:03:29,360 --> 01:03:32,520
Speaker 2: of gonna gonna make this a little like rapid fiery shi.

1217
01:03:33,640 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 2: So real quick calling in relatively low deer density areas

1218
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 2: like this in big woods or big swamp does it

1219
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 2: work better because there's so few deer that when they

1220
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:47,840
Speaker 2: do here one they want to come in. And because

1221
01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:50,160
Speaker 2: that's a rare special thing or does it work less

1222
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:53,400
Speaker 2: frequently because they're just not hearing many calls, so they're

1223
01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 2: actually wigged out by that.

1224
01:03:55,560 --> 01:04:00,800
Speaker 3: What I've found here is the only time I ever

1225
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:04,439
Speaker 3: call is basically when I need to, when I see

1226
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:07,040
Speaker 3: one or need to turn one.

1227
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:08,160
Speaker 6: Uh.

1228
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:10,800
Speaker 3: The bonus of being in thick stuff is they have

1229
01:04:10,880 --> 01:04:14,800
Speaker 3: to look, you know, they have they got to come

1230
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 3: see you, you know. So that's the bonus. You know,

1231
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 3: hunting open stuff, you know, guys are growing on a

1232
01:04:19,400 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 3: field edge. They can just go nothing there, you know,

1233
01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:24,800
Speaker 3: and my stuff. The bonus of when I do grunt,

1234
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 3: they typically I gotta go take a peek. You know,

1235
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:30,440
Speaker 3: not all bucks, but I gotta go take a peek.

1236
01:04:31,120 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 3: I don't blind call at all. None, I don't. I

1237
01:04:37,040 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 3: did rattle a little bit when I was in college

1238
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 3: in Central Michigan. I actually shot, you know guys, just

1239
01:04:41,680 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 3: a little dinky six point. But he came sprinting like

1240
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 3: he's I mean, the hunt was fifteen minutes long. I

1241
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:48,680
Speaker 3: was just trying it for fun. I was bored sprinting,

1242
01:04:48,680 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 3: and I shot this a little six point, you know,

1243
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 3: aspiring early on in October. But I have never blind

1244
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:59,200
Speaker 3: called up here successfully, So I just ditched it. The

1245
01:04:59,240 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 3: only thing that I use use. The grunk call is

1246
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,960
Speaker 3: always there because I've shot a lot of bucks with

1247
01:05:04,040 --> 01:05:07,880
Speaker 3: a couple of grunts because they were avoiding my tight area.

1248
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:10,480
Speaker 3: I got a glimpse of antler, A couple of grunts,

1249
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 3: brought them to me, and I killed them. That is

1250
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:16,840
Speaker 3: the only success I've had with calling. I don't use

1251
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:20,360
Speaker 3: it to bring anything in without me seeing it first.

1252
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:23,760
Speaker 2: When you say a couple of grunts, uh, is it

1253
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,480
Speaker 2: just like a little content. It's a like a or

1254
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:28,960
Speaker 2: you doing like a roar or snorts.

1255
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 3: Or anything grunt and then that's it because I feel,

1256
01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:35,320
Speaker 3: you know, And that's the one thing I've learned about

1257
01:05:35,360 --> 01:05:37,720
Speaker 3: all my scouting in the spring as well, when you

1258
01:05:37,800 --> 01:05:41,680
Speaker 3: wander around and it's like scent wick scent wick dripper

1259
01:05:41,800 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 3: that people leave in the trees, you know, cans left

1260
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:48,720
Speaker 3: on the ground, you know, grunk calls. I know there's

1261
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 3: guys out there letting it rip all year. They got

1262
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 3: don't heat out there in early October, they're grunting, they're

1263
01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:02,200
Speaker 3: you know, using the can I just avoid it, you know,

1264
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:03,640
Speaker 3: I want to be in a spot where just like

1265
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 3: I got their attention. I kind of want them to

1266
01:06:06,120 --> 01:06:08,960
Speaker 3: go like what was that? And then I want to

1267
01:06:09,040 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 3: check it out. I don't push it because I just

1268
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:13,880
Speaker 3: feel I just feel it just gives me a way

1269
01:06:13,920 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 3: to it sound natural. Yeah. Yeah, because like the other

1270
01:06:17,120 --> 01:06:19,400
Speaker 3: day with that forepoint that was chasing that door, that

1271
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:22,040
Speaker 3: was not just a grunt we had. It was accompanied

1272
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:26,040
Speaker 3: with cracking timber, two deer running. It was a whole

1273
01:06:26,400 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 3: I can't do that, which is a gun. That was

1274
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:32,080
Speaker 3: just and that's it, you know. I just wanted to like, hey,

1275
01:06:32,080 --> 01:06:34,680
Speaker 3: there's a buck over there, come check it out. So

1276
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:37,160
Speaker 3: I usually just a couple of little ones to get

1277
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 3: in my attention and make them interested. Yeah, all right.

1278
01:06:40,720 --> 01:06:44,640
Speaker 2: What about access in like entry and exit bouts. That's

1279
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 2: something that we worry about so much an agg country

1280
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:51,160
Speaker 2: down south, but especially like in the big woods areas

1281
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:54,320
Speaker 2: that you hunt. It's not like you can avoid the

1282
01:06:54,400 --> 01:06:57,520
Speaker 2: cover going in or out. Yeah, everything's cover when you

1283
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 2: come in and out. Everything's loud when you come in

1284
01:07:00,440 --> 01:07:02,680
Speaker 2: and out because you're walking through branches and leaves and

1285
01:07:02,760 --> 01:07:06,320
Speaker 2: swamp grass or whatever. So do you do you have

1286
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:09,640
Speaker 2: some way that you try to have a safe entry

1287
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:11,320
Speaker 2: and exit or do you just like rip the band

1288
01:07:11,360 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 2: aid off and blast your way into these places just

1289
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:15,160
Speaker 2: knowing like, hey, it's gonna happen.

1290
01:07:15,680 --> 01:07:17,440
Speaker 3: Well, you know in some cases like I know you

1291
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 3: followed here and one of our fellow people that we

1292
01:07:20,840 --> 01:07:23,400
Speaker 3: paid a lot of attention to being Michigan guys. You

1293
01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 3: know you got John, you Knowhart. Getting in there early,

1294
01:07:27,560 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 3: even if you jump something, you let it cool down.

1295
01:07:30,760 --> 01:07:35,800
Speaker 3: Getting in there early is paramount. And around here, like

1296
01:07:35,840 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 3: I hate jumping things, it is the worst. Access is

1297
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 3: a very important thing. But like you said, if I'm

1298
01:07:40,960 --> 01:07:44,600
Speaker 3: gonna sit here, the only good thing is when I

1299
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:46,959
Speaker 3: get there, It's like, since it's so close to bed,

1300
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 3: there shouldn't be too much around there yet that is

1301
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:53,480
Speaker 3: the bonus. And I don't hunt around fields very often,

1302
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:57,400
Speaker 3: so I know I'm not bumping things there. So like, yes,

1303
01:07:57,480 --> 01:08:00,200
Speaker 3: I keep in mind. That's basically why I keep food

1304
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 3: in mine because I never hunt the food at all.

1305
01:08:03,160 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 3: I mean, I just honestly never really hunt food. Less

1306
01:08:05,400 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 3: it's close to a bedding, I just need to know

1307
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:09,880
Speaker 3: where this is so I can avoid it where I

1308
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 3: get in that bed and then usually when I leave

1309
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:14,600
Speaker 3: at night, I knew where they went. I got to

1310
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:16,760
Speaker 3: get out of there without the nighte so I don't

1311
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 3: have to worry about busts in the field. I don't

1312
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:19,720
Speaker 3: have to worry about any of that stuff because they

1313
01:08:19,760 --> 01:08:23,040
Speaker 3: should be kind of long gone by the time I leave,

1314
01:08:23,640 --> 01:08:27,000
Speaker 3: So that is kind of a bonus, you know. But

1315
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:28,479
Speaker 3: it is hard to sneak in there in the morning

1316
01:08:28,520 --> 01:08:31,400
Speaker 3: without busting stuff. But you just hope that you're there first.

1317
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:35,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, the man, every one of those like frosty leaf

1318
01:08:36,080 --> 01:08:40,960
Speaker 2: crackling steps, especially on like that still freezing cold day

1319
01:08:41,080 --> 01:08:43,360
Speaker 2: when everything seems to echo a mile. It just like

1320
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,200
Speaker 2: you're a little part of your soul dies with every stuff.

1321
01:08:46,520 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 3: That one big large stick crack like near the base

1322
01:08:50,280 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 3: your stand or Yeah, the worst thing in the world

1323
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 3: is like when you like touch that first step and

1324
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 3: then that's when that deer blows and you're just like, great,

1325
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:01,439
Speaker 3: they just waited. They watched me for a while and

1326
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:03,759
Speaker 3: then they really got a good look and good sniff

1327
01:09:03,800 --> 01:09:06,759
Speaker 3: of me. That's just like them. Oh it's the worst

1328
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 3: way to start off, But yeah, I have had I mean,

1329
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 3: going back to that one dear that was telling you

1330
01:09:13,120 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 3: about when I shot it near those like the motorcycle area,

1331
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:18,640
Speaker 3: I had a dough I bet she blew up me

1332
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:22,360
Speaker 3: thirty times that morning at twenty yards and then you know,

1333
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:28,559
Speaker 3: Opening day, it's just so disheartening. Twenty minutes later, shot him.

1334
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:32,120
Speaker 3: You know you got it, see equity. You never know.

1335
01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, you can walk out there. It's just stupid.

1336
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 3: I'm out, I'm gone, but stuck it out shot at

1337
01:09:37,080 --> 01:09:38,599
Speaker 3: that point, the biggest bucket ever shot.

1338
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:41,479
Speaker 2: It's incredible. Yeah, I just got to give it a try.

1339
01:09:42,080 --> 01:09:43,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah.

1340
01:09:44,080 --> 01:09:48,559
Speaker 2: Is there anything Is there any piece of your puzzle,

1341
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 2: any part of your big buck program for hunting during

1342
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:57,400
Speaker 2: the run for like November and on that we haven't

1343
01:09:57,439 --> 01:09:59,760
Speaker 2: touched on that you find like really critical to how

1344
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:03,160
Speaker 2: you have success that the someone was trying to understand

1345
01:10:03,200 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 2: the Jim Bouchard way to kill bucks during the rut

1346
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 2: that we haven't covered yet.

1347
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:11,679
Speaker 3: The main thing that allows me to be in areas

1348
01:10:11,680 --> 01:10:13,400
Speaker 3: where bucks are going to be during the rut is

1349
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 3: just one all the scouting I do in the winter

1350
01:10:16,040 --> 01:10:20,120
Speaker 3: and spring, what did they do last year during the rut?

1351
01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:22,719
Speaker 3: That's where they're going to be. And that's why typically

1352
01:10:22,760 --> 01:10:25,280
Speaker 3: a lot of my spots like they're they're good year

1353
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:28,120
Speaker 3: to year, you know, because it's just it's where they're

1354
01:10:28,200 --> 01:10:32,040
Speaker 3: going to be. So I know they're there because I

1355
01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:34,400
Speaker 3: found it months before. I didn't have to worry about

1356
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 3: bumping them or anything like that. It's just straight up

1357
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:40,719
Speaker 3: preparation because I honestly I know you have a chance

1358
01:10:40,760 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 3: down there to scout fields with binos and spotting scopes

1359
01:10:44,160 --> 01:10:46,559
Speaker 3: and all that kind of stuff. I don't even have

1360
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 3: that as an option because I spent doesn't make any sense.

1361
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 3: So my stuff is basically done by Turkey season. Turkey

1362
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 3: season's done, I don't really need to go look. I

1363
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:01,240
Speaker 3: might do a quick check, you like, just to verify,

1364
01:11:01,360 --> 01:11:04,040
Speaker 3: like where am I going to prioritize, especially if is

1365
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 3: there acorns? Did that tree have apples? You know? Does

1366
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,599
Speaker 3: that guy look like he's hunting there anymore? I check

1367
01:11:11,680 --> 01:11:15,599
Speaker 3: those things. My decisions have been made by the time

1368
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:17,720
Speaker 3: Turkey season is done. That's when I put my time in,

1369
01:11:18,080 --> 01:11:20,320
Speaker 3: just hours and hours and hours of walking around late

1370
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:22,080
Speaker 3: you know, early spring scouting.

1371
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:25,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so that kind of sets up. Let's imagine

1372
01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:30,000
Speaker 2: that you have a guy or girl who has hunted

1373
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:34,040
Speaker 2: for a while and they've had kind of middle of

1374
01:11:34,080 --> 01:11:36,120
Speaker 2: the road success. They've killed some deer here and there,

1375
01:11:36,160 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 2: but they have never been the person who consistently fills

1376
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:41,040
Speaker 2: their buck tag every year, but they really want to

1377
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:44,400
Speaker 2: take that step up. And this person lives in northern

1378
01:11:44,479 --> 01:11:47,960
Speaker 2: Michigan or northern Wisconsin, or northern Minnesota, or the big

1379
01:11:47,960 --> 01:11:51,080
Speaker 2: Woods of Kentucky or Pennsylvania, somewhere where there's a lot

1380
01:11:51,120 --> 01:11:54,559
Speaker 2: of cover, not as many deer, so they relate to

1381
01:11:54,640 --> 01:11:58,599
Speaker 2: your story and they would love to have a sheet

1382
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 2: of paper with five steps. On this paper, it's like

1383
01:12:03,680 --> 01:12:07,160
Speaker 2: the blueprint for success in this kind of place. And

1384
01:12:07,240 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 2: you were gonna be the author of this paper for

1385
01:12:09,120 --> 01:12:14,519
Speaker 2: this person. And if I'll force you into step one

1386
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 2: is postseason scout extensively as you just describe, maybe that's

1387
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 2: rule that's step number one to this blueprint. And let

1388
01:12:21,400 --> 01:12:24,559
Speaker 2: me tighten this even further and just say this is

1389
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:28,679
Speaker 2: gonna be like rut related stuff to have success during

1390
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:31,559
Speaker 2: this time period when folks are listening, What would the

1391
01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 2: next three to four rules or steps be on this

1392
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:38,400
Speaker 2: blueprint that you would write down. It could be things

1393
01:12:38,400 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 2: we've already talked about. Of course, if you want to

1394
01:12:40,320 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 2: summarize some of those things, or if there's something new,

1395
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:44,599
Speaker 2: you can add anything else you want to the list.

1396
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 2: But what's basically what we're gonna leave everyone today with

1397
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:55,200
Speaker 2: this Bouchard blueprint. Walk me through the final steps on

1398
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:57,400
Speaker 2: this blueprint. Scout extends.

1399
01:12:57,479 --> 01:12:58,840
Speaker 3: I can see my friends are making fun of that

1400
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:02,680
Speaker 3: comment already. I see the next time. You know. The

1401
01:13:02,720 --> 01:13:06,400
Speaker 3: one thing that we haven't really talked about, because we've

1402
01:13:06,400 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 3: talked primary about like where you go. And I think

1403
01:13:09,479 --> 01:13:14,000
Speaker 3: one thing that you really have to focus on is that,

1404
01:13:14,360 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 3: besides the scouting, is that when it comes down it,

1405
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 3: you actually have to get it done. Like that's one

1406
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:25,559
Speaker 3: thing we've like look past and like that's my the

1407
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:28,479
Speaker 3: thing that keeps me up and the thing the reason

1408
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:30,639
Speaker 3: I have a little ten yard shooting spot in here

1409
01:13:30,680 --> 01:13:33,480
Speaker 3: and all my stuff we're here. I am so afraid

1410
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:39,679
Speaker 3: to screw up my one shot. Yeah, I'm horrified of it.

1411
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:44,959
Speaker 3: Like it is what keeps me like constantly at shooting

1412
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:48,920
Speaker 3: and constantly at scouting is like I have to be ready.

1413
01:13:48,960 --> 01:13:51,800
Speaker 3: And that's why it's such an unbelievable feeling when it

1414
01:13:51,840 --> 01:13:56,040
Speaker 3: does happen, is because like you got one shot these

1415
01:13:56,080 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 3: three hundred SOMEHODD days a year, you're waiting like you

1416
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:02,639
Speaker 3: better not screw up up because not only if you

1417
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 3: do scroll like you might be shot for the rest

1418
01:14:04,920 --> 01:14:08,320
Speaker 3: of that year. But you know it hurts. I mean

1419
01:14:08,320 --> 01:14:10,599
Speaker 3: that you talk about tear your soul out. I mean

1420
01:14:10,600 --> 01:14:14,880
Speaker 3: it's horrible. And I am so motivated by that fear

1421
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:19,920
Speaker 3: of screwing up. So if somebody wants to shoot good deer,

1422
01:14:21,120 --> 01:14:22,559
Speaker 3: I hope you're on top of your game to be

1423
01:14:22,560 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 3: able to do it during the moment of truth. Like

1424
01:14:24,280 --> 01:14:27,040
Speaker 3: you have to have that part because I don't care

1425
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 3: where you sit. I don't care if you go to

1426
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:32,320
Speaker 3: the best spot in the planet. If you can't kill it,

1427
01:14:32,760 --> 01:14:34,880
Speaker 3: you're wasting your time anyway. It doesn't matter if you

1428
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:38,720
Speaker 3: scout and all that stuff, Like are you ready when

1429
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:41,639
Speaker 3: that everything comes down and your brain doesn't even work anymore?

1430
01:14:42,000 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 3: Will you be able to kill it? And part that

1431
01:14:45,560 --> 01:14:48,040
Speaker 3: helps me is like, yeah, I don't have to shoot

1432
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 3: fifty That definitely helps me. You know, that makes me

1433
01:14:51,120 --> 01:14:54,599
Speaker 3: more effective. But you know, like will I be ready?

1434
01:14:54,600 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 3: Will I not be scrolling on my phone? And when

1435
01:14:57,360 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 3: that deer comes out and does a little last minute move,

1436
01:15:02,240 --> 01:15:04,080
Speaker 3: did you get an arrow at them? That killed them?

1437
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:06,559
Speaker 3: So I think one thing I always sell it because

1438
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:09,959
Speaker 3: I'm an education and I see a lot of pictures

1439
01:15:10,040 --> 01:15:11,960
Speaker 3: on phones and kids shoot and all that kind of

1440
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:14,800
Speaker 3: stuff is like get yourself ready to get the job

1441
01:15:14,880 --> 01:15:17,840
Speaker 3: done if it does happen. You know, that's step one.

1442
01:15:18,000 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 3: You have to have the ability to do so. And

1443
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,840
Speaker 3: that's something we haven't really talked about, you know, we

1444
01:15:22,880 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 3: talk about scouting. So yeah, the scouting and then okay,

1445
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:32,160
Speaker 3: do you are you efficient with the actual job of

1446
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:37,960
Speaker 3: killing that animal? Obviously, like I would have it. Whenever

1447
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:39,320
Speaker 3: you give me a list, I'd like I'd have to

1448
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:41,640
Speaker 3: sit there on a whiteboard and like eat out my

1449
01:15:41,760 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 3: list and going no, that made sense, Nope, this should

1450
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 3: be four, Nope, this should be two. You know, obviously

1451
01:15:48,720 --> 01:15:51,240
Speaker 3: I would have to because if I'm really up to

1452
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:53,280
Speaker 3: this challenge, I'd be like can I hang out with

1453
01:15:53,320 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 3: that person? Like can they come stand where? I go? Okay,

1454
01:15:57,600 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 3: this is a good spot, or like I have killed

1455
01:16:00,200 --> 01:16:03,640
Speaker 3: stuff here, like what do you see? Like would you

1456
01:16:03,720 --> 01:16:06,800
Speaker 3: ever sit here? Or hey, show me where you're sitting,

1457
01:16:07,280 --> 01:16:09,920
Speaker 3: you know, show me where you're sitting. Why did you

1458
01:16:10,000 --> 01:16:13,679
Speaker 3: choose this spot? You know, and I can I could

1459
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:16,280
Speaker 3: go through the things like okay, this is why this

1460
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:18,360
Speaker 3: would be a rough spot to get it done. You know,

1461
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 3: I would prefer to do that, you know, like a

1462
01:16:21,800 --> 01:16:24,880
Speaker 3: first hand maybe that's the teacher in me, but like that,

1463
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:28,360
Speaker 3: this is why this isn't going to work effectively and

1464
01:16:28,439 --> 01:16:31,240
Speaker 3: be able to go this, this, this, and this. You know,

1465
01:16:31,400 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 3: like this is why this spot works for me. You know,

1466
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:36,160
Speaker 3: like they will never see me there. I will never

1467
01:16:36,160 --> 01:16:39,080
Speaker 3: get picked off there. You know, they can't get behind me.

1468
01:16:39,160 --> 01:16:41,200
Speaker 3: This spot's going to be good. If I have a

1469
01:16:41,240 --> 01:16:44,160
Speaker 3: west wind, I am good for the year without anything

1470
01:16:44,200 --> 01:16:47,080
Speaker 3: being blown out of here. You know, that's why that's there.

1471
01:16:47,600 --> 01:16:50,439
Speaker 3: So I think going back to the ced equity things

1472
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:54,760
Speaker 3: like how many little micro mistakes I've made? I would

1473
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:56,840
Speaker 3: try to show them because that's what you're always trying

1474
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:58,639
Speaker 3: to do as a mentors, Like how do we reduce

1475
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:03,920
Speaker 3: the the mistakes that somebody makes? Which is perfect now,

1476
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:07,040
Speaker 3: I mean there's so many ways to find those things

1477
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:10,439
Speaker 3: out by listening to podcasts and reading people's books and

1478
01:17:10,479 --> 01:17:13,559
Speaker 3: looking at all these things. So I would like, if

1479
01:17:13,600 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 3: I've just given this challenge, which I'm totally going around

1480
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 3: your list, like I'm like not answering your question whatsoever.

1481
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:25,599
Speaker 2: You know, it's as all good politicians do. You reframe it,

1482
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,679
Speaker 2: You reframe it want to and it's great.

1483
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I would really like to just like, Okay,

1484
01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:34,519
Speaker 3: let's see your spot first, let's look at one of mine,

1485
01:17:35,640 --> 01:17:37,240
Speaker 3: Like what is going to get you in a spot

1486
01:17:37,400 --> 01:17:39,799
Speaker 3: that's going to And the other thing, too, is before

1487
01:17:39,840 --> 01:17:41,479
Speaker 3: we get to like I want to shoot a big deer,

1488
01:17:42,240 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 3: Let's shoot deer. You know, I know you and Tony

1489
01:17:45,120 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 3: talk about this a bunch. I like shooting deer. I

1490
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:51,439
Speaker 3: like everything with shooting deer. I like processing the deer.

1491
01:17:51,479 --> 01:17:53,679
Speaker 3: I like dragging the deer. I like my daughter coming

1492
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 3: with me, I like my friends coming with me. I

1493
01:17:57,120 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 3: don't need it to be I don't consider it a

1494
01:18:00,479 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 3: failure of a season, not shooting one hundred and twenty

1495
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:07,400
Speaker 3: in steer. I mean that is like an amazing goal,

1496
01:18:07,560 --> 01:18:09,400
Speaker 3: and I'd love to be able to pull it off

1497
01:18:09,439 --> 01:18:12,439
Speaker 3: all the time. I don't, but I'm not sad. If

1498
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:16,040
Speaker 3: I had a cool morning, it's an awesome rut. He's

1499
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:19,120
Speaker 3: coming in on a dough cruising eleven o'clock. I mean

1500
01:18:19,160 --> 01:18:23,559
Speaker 3: it was like, that is the opportunity is what I'm seeking.

1501
01:18:23,560 --> 01:18:26,400
Speaker 3: So if I was going to have a person like

1502
01:18:26,520 --> 01:18:29,800
Speaker 3: let's shoot some deer and I take them those spots,

1503
01:18:29,840 --> 01:18:31,799
Speaker 3: like let's let's get a chance to shoot it because honestly,

1504
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:35,120
Speaker 3: I would not take a rookie to my spots because

1505
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:39,320
Speaker 3: they probably hate hunting, right, They just it wouldn't be fun,

1506
01:18:39,720 --> 01:18:42,600
Speaker 3: you know, it just would not be fun. Let's go

1507
01:18:42,640 --> 01:18:44,840
Speaker 3: to some of those borderline areas, maybe a little further

1508
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:47,280
Speaker 3: out of that betting area where you know, a year

1509
01:18:47,320 --> 01:18:48,599
Speaker 3: and a half two and a half year old bucks

1510
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 3: are gonna be out there a little earlier, maybe some doughs,

1511
01:18:52,400 --> 01:18:54,719
Speaker 3: and get some deer under your belt before we start

1512
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:58,000
Speaker 3: focusing on stuff that is back in that dimmer, because

1513
01:18:58,000 --> 01:19:00,280
Speaker 3: it really is in a lot of cases, you never

1514
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:01,800
Speaker 3: want to be a camera person with me.

1515
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can imagine a spot like that. I've

1516
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 2: sat in many of those growing up and still to

1517
01:19:10,360 --> 01:19:13,439
Speaker 2: this day. So let's end it with this, Jim. Yeah,

1518
01:19:13,520 --> 01:19:18,280
Speaker 2: Let's imagine that someone is listening to this in our

1519
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:21,599
Speaker 2: home state of Michigan on the day comes out, which

1520
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:24,639
Speaker 2: as I said, was November fourteenth, This is gun season Eve.

1521
01:19:25,640 --> 01:19:29,680
Speaker 2: What is your single most important message you want to

1522
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:33,000
Speaker 2: give to someone on gun Season Eve if they are

1523
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:37,280
Speaker 2: listening in that particular day, one tip or one reminder,

1524
01:19:37,640 --> 01:19:40,560
Speaker 2: one parting message? What do you want to tell folks?

1525
01:19:41,000 --> 01:19:44,439
Speaker 3: I think when it comes to rifle season, it's such

1526
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:48,759
Speaker 3: like a romanticized thing for me based on my tradition.

1527
01:19:50,280 --> 01:19:54,439
Speaker 3: I know, you dig it. I've read your stuff, and

1528
01:19:55,320 --> 01:19:57,599
Speaker 3: camp is the thing for me when it comes to rifle.

1529
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:02,559
Speaker 3: And what I think is like the coolest thing about rifles,

1530
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:06,240
Speaker 3: Like I know, when that alarm clock goes off in

1531
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:10,519
Speaker 3: the morning, there's hundreds of dudes, well hundreds of hunters

1532
01:20:11,200 --> 01:20:14,720
Speaker 3: that are so amped up, like they get their their

1533
01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:17,920
Speaker 3: stomach hurts, like and I just think it's a cool

1534
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:21,160
Speaker 3: thing that everybody's on the same page. It's like, is

1535
01:20:21,240 --> 01:20:24,720
Speaker 3: this going to be my day? Is my number going

1536
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:28,360
Speaker 3: to be pulled today? You know? And what I can't

1537
01:20:28,400 --> 01:20:31,120
Speaker 3: stress was like enjoy that feeling and like make sure

1538
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:32,920
Speaker 3: that it's going on and on and on, like I

1539
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:36,080
Speaker 3: know you're with your sons. Is like that. I looked

1540
01:20:36,120 --> 01:20:38,360
Speaker 3: up to my uncles and stuff going on opening day

1541
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:40,400
Speaker 3: and their story is coming back. I mean they were

1542
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:44,519
Speaker 3: gods to me. You know. Enjoy that part of it,

1543
01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:48,480
Speaker 3: you know. I mean, yeah, killing a buck is fantastic.

1544
01:20:48,479 --> 01:20:51,000
Speaker 3: There's nothing like bringing a buck like our family buck

1545
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 3: pulled back in the day was the place to be.

1546
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:57,840
Speaker 3: I mean, there's no greater honor than to be the

1547
01:20:57,880 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 3: guy that got to back his truck up and drop

1548
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:03,040
Speaker 3: that deer off and hang it in front of your

1549
01:21:03,120 --> 01:21:07,559
Speaker 3: uncles and cousins, you know. And then on the other

1550
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:10,400
Speaker 3: side of that is if your number isn't drawn, you know,

1551
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:15,479
Speaker 3: the people that did get their chance, you'll celebrate with them.

1552
01:21:15,520 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 3: You know that that is just like the absolute most

1553
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:20,800
Speaker 3: important thing. By this time, your work is done, you're

1554
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:24,320
Speaker 3: sitting where you're sitting, You've been in camp. You're going

1555
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:26,040
Speaker 3: to be in camp for a couple of days. Man,

1556
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 3: enjoy the absolute like majesty of the opening day in Michigan,

1557
01:21:31,479 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 3: because it is it's that's the jam. You know, deer

1558
01:21:34,280 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 3: aren't really doing deer things anymore. You're playing the lottery now,

1559
01:21:38,479 --> 01:21:42,280
Speaker 3: and enjoy it with everybody around you, because yeah, silly

1560
01:21:42,280 --> 01:21:44,320
Speaker 3: things happen when it comes to the rifles going off.

1561
01:21:45,040 --> 01:21:46,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, might as well have some fun.

1562
01:21:46,680 --> 01:21:49,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not even like a hunting tip. It's just

1563
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:52,479
Speaker 3: like that. That is why I that's why I go

1564
01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 3: to camp. I just can't wait to see you know.

1565
01:21:56,439 --> 01:21:59,320
Speaker 3: So and so Sun got his first dear like uncle

1566
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 3: so and So got the biggest year of his life.

1567
01:22:00,920 --> 01:22:03,040
Speaker 3: He's seventy you know, I mean all these and then

1568
01:22:03,240 --> 01:22:07,080
Speaker 3: the collective stories. I mean, that's why we're there. Yeah,

1569
01:22:07,080 --> 01:22:10,080
Speaker 3: you know, that's why we're there. That's the good stuff.

1570
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:13,800
Speaker 2: Jim, Well, I appreciate you taking time to do this.

1571
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:17,360
Speaker 2: I appreciate you sharing your insights and experiences, and I

1572
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 2: hope we will be reading more of your stories in

1573
01:22:21,360 --> 01:22:24,080
Speaker 2: various hunting publications. I've enjoyed what I've read from you

1574
01:22:24,160 --> 01:22:26,400
Speaker 2: so far, looking forward to more in the future, and

1575
01:22:26,840 --> 01:22:28,680
Speaker 2: I'm sure you're gonna have some good stories coming off

1576
01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:30,880
Speaker 2: of the twenty twenty four seasons, since it's been a

1577
01:22:30,920 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 2: banner year.

1578
01:22:31,600 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it has been. Well. Thanks, I really appreciate it.

1579
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:36,960
Speaker 3: I mean, it's an honor to be a part of this.

1580
01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:41,559
Speaker 2: Hey man, right back at you. I'll be bugging you

1581
01:22:41,600 --> 01:22:44,280
Speaker 2: in future weeks and years to come, continuing to try

1582
01:22:44,320 --> 01:22:47,400
Speaker 2: to pick your brain and fill some upper Michigan tags.

1583
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 3: One of these years week coming.

1584
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:57,840
Speaker 2: All right, and that's a wrap. Hope you guys enjoyed this.

1585
01:22:58,080 --> 01:23:00,760
Speaker 2: Thank you for being here with me. Good luck out

1586
01:23:00,760 --> 01:23:02,559
Speaker 2: there in the woods. If you are kicking off a

1587
01:23:02,600 --> 01:23:06,200
Speaker 2: gun season here, maybe tomorrow in Michigan or somewhere else soon.

1588
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:10,439
Speaker 2: Good luck out there, please, be safe, enjoy your time,

1589
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:15,120
Speaker 2: spend time with your friends and family. Remember camaraderie, community,

1590
01:23:15,960 --> 01:23:18,040
Speaker 2: all of that stuff is what this is all about.

1591
01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 2: Get out there with your kids, your family members, your friends,

1592
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:24,800
Speaker 2: and soak it all up. So until then, until next time,

1593
01:23:25,280 --> 01:23:27,679
Speaker 2: stay wired to hunt.

1594
01:23:33,280 --> 01:23:37,240
Speaker 7: It's that time of the year again. I'm back, Marcus Kenyan.

1595
01:23:37,280 --> 01:23:39,799
Speaker 7: How are you your son of a gadwall? You look terrible.

1596
01:23:40,880 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 7: I'm just kidding, a rema.

1597
01:23:42,200 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 4: I'm sorry. I'm late.

1598
01:23:43,160 --> 01:23:45,280
Speaker 7: I crashed my recumbent bicycle into the side of a

1599
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:47,800
Speaker 7: quiz nose and I know what you're thinking. I am

1600
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:50,800
Speaker 7: as sober as a newborn blue crab. I swear to

1601
01:23:50,880 --> 01:23:52,760
Speaker 7: you this is just kombucha.

1602
01:23:53,240 --> 01:23:55,120
Speaker 4: I'm watching the gut health. You gotta do it as

1603
01:23:55,120 --> 01:23:55,839
Speaker 4: you get older.

1604
01:23:56,520 --> 01:23:58,960
Speaker 7: And also, I'm wearing this ankle bracelet that makes a

1605
01:23:58,960 --> 01:24:01,320
Speaker 7: beet beep sound if I have a drop of the

1606
01:24:01,360 --> 01:24:04,840
Speaker 7: stuff also alerts the authorities, who in turn alert my

1607
01:24:04,880 --> 01:24:07,600
Speaker 7: parole officer. So there'll be none of that in the

1608
01:24:07,640 --> 01:24:12,040
Speaker 7: studio today, I promise you. Let's get go. Oh you're

1609
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:13,160
Speaker 7: queueing it up already.

1610
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:14,000
Speaker 3: Okay.

1611
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:16,160
Speaker 7: I thought we'd learned a lesson this year, but I

1612
01:24:16,160 --> 01:24:16,519
Speaker 7: guess not.

1613
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:17,240
Speaker 4: Here we go.

1614
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:24,679
Speaker 6: I love those beagy big big white tails. Those seek

1615
01:24:24,840 --> 01:24:30,639
Speaker 6: run be agye big big wide tails. I love those

1616
01:24:30,760 --> 01:24:35,760
Speaker 6: beachy big yeah eight chats eat eat tales. I love

1617
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:39,800
Speaker 6: those beachy big wide tails.

1618
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:46,120
Speaker 5: Big white tails, big white tails, big white tales are great.

1619
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 4: Hold what fun it is to sit in the freezing

1620
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:51,400
Speaker 4: cold tree all day?

1621
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:57,040
Speaker 5: Big white tails, big white tails, big white tails are great?

1622
01:24:58,160 --> 01:24:58,439
Speaker 3: Hold?

1623
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 4: What fun it is just sit in the freezing cold

1624
01:25:01,520 --> 01:25:07,200
Speaker 4: tree all day? Dashing through the woods for the morning light,

1625
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:12,720
Speaker 4: turns grave across the fields and draws, creep in all

1626
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:18,160
Speaker 4: the way, climb into the tree. Big bulks are on

1627
01:25:18,439 --> 01:25:22,519
Speaker 4: the wave? What fun is to sit and wait for

1628
01:25:22,720 --> 01:25:28,400
Speaker 4: my gosh don deer all day? Oh big, I'm sorry?

1629
01:25:28,479 --> 01:25:28,840
Speaker 5: What is this?

1630
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:33,599
Speaker 4: Pisocado strings? Who do you think? I am ya? Get

1631
01:25:33,640 --> 01:25:34,920
Speaker 4: this out here. I don't want to hear it.

1632
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:36,040
Speaker 3: Thank you.

1633
01:25:36,400 --> 01:25:40,799
Speaker 7: Big white tails, big white tails, big white tails are great.

1634
01:25:41,880 --> 01:25:45,160
Speaker 7: Hold fun it is to sit in the freezing cold

1635
01:25:45,200 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 7: tree all day? I hope sand dreams are high the rut.

1636
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:54,920
Speaker 7: He's finally here, Mark said, it's the most wonderful time

1637
01:25:55,040 --> 01:25:59,679
Speaker 7: to kill o whitetail deer bingch points and pettings where

1638
01:25:59,800 --> 01:26:02,479
Speaker 7: you'll find me as want to bet in a tree,

1639
01:26:03,360 --> 01:26:07,639
Speaker 7: grunt tubes, my bowel inspectrum. Camo's really campy.

1640
01:26:07,800 --> 01:26:10,599
Speaker 4: Be he haught you ago.

1641
01:26:11,720 --> 01:26:15,879
Speaker 7: I thought that this was fun, but now I'm frozen

1642
01:26:16,080 --> 01:26:19,040
Speaker 7: to my seat, and the good times they are gone.

1643
01:26:19,920 --> 01:26:21,280
Speaker 3: I've ate up all my.

1644
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:26,040
Speaker 7: Snacks, my hands and toes unnumb and we're gonna climb

1645
01:26:26,120 --> 01:26:27,360
Speaker 7: down from my stand.

1646
01:26:27,479 --> 01:26:30,160
Speaker 4: That son of a but decided to come.

1647
01:26:30,280 --> 01:26:37,520
Speaker 6: I love those beagy big white tapes, those sky bagy

1648
01:26:37,760 --> 01:26:39,919
Speaker 6: big big white tastes.

1649
01:26:41,160 --> 01:26:46,640
Speaker 7: I love those beg big dup y'all eight shot gie etails.

1650
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:50,599
Speaker 4: I love those big white tails all day.

1651
01:26:56,920 --> 01:26:58,560
Speaker 7: I don't know why this is happening. I swear to

1652
01:26:58,680 --> 01:27:02,640
Speaker 7: God of what seems to be the problem here, Oh this.

1653
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:04,479
Speaker 7: I don't know why this is happening. It must be

1654
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:06,879
Speaker 7: a malfunction, you know. Sometimes it happens when the batteries

1655
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:07,320
Speaker 7: running low.

1656
01:27:07,360 --> 01:27:09,200
Speaker 4: You don't know. You don't need to smell that. That's

1657
01:27:09,360 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 4: just kombucha. I okay, yes, you've got me. It's ever

1658
01:27:13,560 --> 01:27:15,120
Speaker 4: clear and pacific cooler, Caprice Son.

1659
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:19,439
Speaker 7: I am so so sorry. I don't know why my

1660
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:22,799
Speaker 7: life has brought me here. Mark Marcus, I'm so sorry.

1661
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:27,280
Speaker 7: Enjoy the rut or whatever, good luck.

1662
01:27:28,920 --> 01:27:29,360
Speaker 3: Boys.

1663
01:27:29,640 --> 01:27:32,920
Speaker 4: Good to see you, Hayden. It's been a while. Hey, sorry,

1664
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:33,280
Speaker 4: I'm late.

1665
01:27:33,320 --> 01:27:35,080
Speaker 7: I crashed my pontiac cast i canto a light pole

1666
01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:36,200
Speaker 7: and had to walk the rest of the way. But

1667
01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:38,599
Speaker 7: I'm here now, that's what matters. Give me a glass

1668
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:40,760
Speaker 7: of scotch, please, Hayden. Just two rocks in there.

1669
01:27:40,760 --> 01:27:44,599
Speaker 4: I don't like ice. We're starting already, this is happening. Okay,

1670
01:27:44,680 --> 01:27:46,000
Speaker 4: just give me the give me the glass, thank you.

1671
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:46,760
Speaker 3: Okay, here we go.

1672
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:51,960
Speaker 4: It's the most wonderful time to kill to you.

1673
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:58,360
Speaker 7: With the run now just starting and dashing and dotting

1674
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:04,960
Speaker 7: and veins cutting clean, It's the most wonderful time to

1675
01:28:05,520 --> 01:28:06,160
Speaker 7: kill deer.

1676
01:28:06,800 --> 01:28:08,320
Speaker 4: There's far too much, isinus glass.

1677
01:28:08,800 --> 01:28:14,479
Speaker 7: It's the half happy seedson of all. There's gotta be

1678
01:28:14,479 --> 01:28:18,519
Speaker 7: at least twelve cues with grunting and bleeding and cold

1679
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:20,600
Speaker 7: fronts and sleeting, the last.

1680
01:28:20,400 --> 01:28:21,320
Speaker 4: Weeks of fun.

1681
01:28:23,040 --> 01:28:31,240
Speaker 7: It's the half happy Seedsson of all. There'll be pictures

1682
01:28:31,320 --> 01:28:34,960
Speaker 7: for posting and bragging and boasting and truck beds with

1683
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:40,000
Speaker 7: big bucks in toe. There'll be narrow misstories and tales

1684
01:28:40,080 --> 01:28:43,519
Speaker 7: of your glories of booner bucks missed with our bulls.

1685
01:28:46,040 --> 01:28:51,640
Speaker 7: It's the most wonderful time to kill deer, not just

1686
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:55,360
Speaker 7: one baby two. There'll be no tose of blowing and

1687
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:58,599
Speaker 7: looming knocks glowing and blood trails so clean.

1688
01:29:00,439 --> 01:29:01,800
Speaker 4: It's the most.

1689
01:29:01,960 --> 01:29:05,200
Speaker 1: Wonderful time to kill deer.

1690
01:29:07,760 --> 01:29:08,240
Speaker 3: Excuse me?

1691
01:29:08,320 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 4: Can I have a napkin?

1692
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:09,280
Speaker 5: Please?

1693
01:29:09,320 --> 01:29:11,800
Speaker 4: I just spilled some scotch on my loafers. I can't

1694
01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:13,439
Speaker 4: have dirty loafers in the studio.

1695
01:29:14,000 --> 01:29:17,840
Speaker 7: Thank you Tailgate beers for drinking, and big Bucks is

1696
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:22,240
Speaker 7: slinking and chasing and sent jacking does They will be

1697
01:29:22,400 --> 01:29:25,800
Speaker 7: fighting and scraping and no more escaping and.

1698
01:29:26,200 --> 01:29:28,240
Speaker 4: Arrowshot true hitting, Oh.

1699
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:32,479
Speaker 3: Key change.

1700
01:29:32,720 --> 01:29:36,640
Speaker 4: But no one told me that it's the most wonderful

1701
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:40,960
Speaker 4: time to kill deer. I was very unprepared for this.

1702
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:44,880
Speaker 7: There will be much morning sitting in cold fronts, are

1703
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:46,960
Speaker 7: hitting the dawn, Kristen clean.

1704
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:51,599
Speaker 4: It's the most wonderful.

1705
01:29:51,080 --> 01:29:58,679
Speaker 7: Time, Oh, the most wonderful time, Yes, the most wonderful time.

1706
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:12,639
Speaker 4: To kilty. There's too much ice in the glass. Two

1707
01:30:12,880 --> 01:30:13,240
Speaker 4: rocks