Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt. Today
Speaker 1: we're answering your listener questions.
Speaker 2: You know what, buddy, let's get after it. We're gonna
Speaker 2: hear directly from listeners. We've got a listener who's asking
Speaker 2: what he should be doing about his student loans that
Speaker 2: are in for bearans. Another listener is actually looking forward
Speaker 2: to collections. Could this be a strategy, Joel, We'll talk
Speaker 2: about what he's thinking about. And another listener actually encountered
Speaker 2: some financial infidelity, and so I'm gonna uncomfortably wait into
Speaker 2: playing financial counselor maybe, and we'll see what kind of
Speaker 2: terrible advice that we give in that section of the
Speaker 2: How the Money podcast. You didn't even sleep at a
Speaker 2: holiday and I didn't even do it. Man, I'm still
Speaker 2: gonna try. Well, hey, you've got this thing about Shutterfly here,
Speaker 2: we got like a new sponsorship or something. No no, no, no,
Speaker 2: new affiliate code. So I was not even that.
Speaker 1: I was curious because I have a lot of photos
Speaker 1: that I don't really have backed up, and I guess
Speaker 1: I could just like buy a cheap hard drive and
Speaker 1: download everything from my phone and send it over to
Speaker 1: a hard drive, but it would be nice to have
Speaker 1: them stored in the cloud somewhere. Oh yeah, and I could.
Speaker 1: I'm you know, you know this about me, I'm kind
Speaker 1: of cheap. Sometimes at times I can be cheap, and
Speaker 1: so I'm wondering, I don't pay for the Apple Cloud.
Speaker 2: What's it called? Apple Cloud? iCloud, I Cloud? Okay cloud?
Speaker 2: I should have done that. Are you pasted? You? We talked,
Speaker 2: We talked about this last week. It's that's what the
Speaker 2: ice stands were. I looked it up while I was
Speaker 2: editing that podcast that episode. It was Internet because I think,
Speaker 2: I really because before then the computers weren't always directly
Speaker 2: like tied or tethered to the Internet or something. So
Speaker 2: evidently it was like, oh yeah, this stands for this
Speaker 2: that is now interfacing with the Internet's with the World
Speaker 2: Wide webs.
Speaker 1: Well it works well because nobody thinks of it like
Speaker 1: that anymore, and they just think, isn't it No, it's
Speaker 1: the Mac for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually, I was thinking when you said that, oh yeah,
Speaker 2: it probably is more of like because it's it was
Speaker 2: sort of like that era where you had all that
Speaker 2: cool ads with the silhouettes dancing with you know that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I was with you. I wasn't gonna question it, but
Speaker 2: I did look it.
Speaker 1: Up so I could pay for the cloud via Apple
Speaker 1: and a dollar a dollar a month.
Speaker 2: I think, right, you get no five, you get five
Speaker 2: gigabytes for free, right, So did you really? I think?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, it keeps giving me this warning over and over,
Speaker 1: like your stuff's not backed up.
Speaker 2: Or probably because you've filled it. Yeah, that's probably it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you filled it up.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, I don't want to pay you
Speaker 1: money every month. It feels like blackmail, and so leave
Speaker 1: me alone. And maybe I should just get over that.
Speaker 1: But I was curious because actually this was the biggest
Speaker 1: reason to have a Google Pixel phone back in the day.
Speaker 2: The automatic Google photo storage.
Speaker 1: Google basically said hey, you get unlimited photo storage. And
Speaker 1: I was like, this is one of those things to
Speaker 1: keep me with Pixel when they got rid of it,
Speaker 1: so I was like, well, you've lost your edge.
Speaker 2: So the question is do you still have those photos
Speaker 2: or did you lose them to the cloud?
Speaker 1: All the photos that yet, that's a really good question.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I know, like I feel that's
Speaker 1: they're probably lingering somewhere, but they might be like okay,
Speaker 1: it's a hardware.
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, give me the give me the Shutterfly
Speaker 2: tie in. Okay, where this is going?
Speaker 1: So Shutterfly, I was like, looking this up, I was like,
Speaker 1: who offers free photo storage? And nobody really does anymore.
Speaker 1: It used to be flicker. Flicker used to was oh yeah,
Speaker 1: back or is it? What is it twenty ten? I mean,
Speaker 1: come on, buddy, But Shutterfly apparently says you can get
Speaker 1: free unlimited photo storage if you buy a product once
Speaker 1: every eighteen months. Okay, And I was like, that seems
Speaker 1: like a reasonable trade off, because no, I'm not paying
Speaker 1: somebody money every single month.
Speaker 2: How much did you say? Like how much storage? It's unlimited? Really?
Speaker 2: I think it's unlimited. Oh fascinating. Wait is it unlimited
Speaker 2: for the photos that you upload in order to create
Speaker 2: the product that they're selling you?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: I think like literally, you can just be like I
Speaker 2: think all your photos. I think so, yeah, maybe I
Speaker 2: need to go look at the fine print. Sorry for
Speaker 2: the sound effect, the pretty sure that maybe I yeah,
Speaker 2: unconsciously did the sound effect because that's what I think
Speaker 2: about it. I think it's fine. First of all, I
Speaker 2: love that you searched. Is there a I'm sure you
Speaker 2: chatted it or whatever, like, is there a free option
Speaker 2: out there? Because I appreciate that that you're out there
Speaker 2: looking for You're looking for the deal, trying to find
Speaker 2: the work around. But the reason I asked about your
Speaker 2: Google Photos is because it can be so hard to
Speaker 2: keep up with all these different accounts for sure, and
Speaker 2: which photos you have stored all over the place. And
Speaker 2: this is coming from someone who has had a lot
Speaker 2: of experience when it comes to storing photos. I used
Speaker 2: to be a photographer, had tons, like tons and tons
Speaker 2: of terabytes of images and files. And before that, I
Speaker 2: was a designer, and so my illustrator files, on my
Speaker 2: photoshop files like these were all files that I wanted
Speaker 2: to own and possess and to keep on my person
Speaker 2: And I personally resisted the cloud, but I ultimately I
Speaker 2: don't keep up with all the different spots where I've
Speaker 2: got on files, all my pictures stashed. We as a family,
Speaker 2: pay for the upgraded, upgraded ic cloud.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you can get a family account as well,
Speaker 1: so we can kind of store it together.
Speaker 2: Pay one thing, yeah yeah, yeah, okay, So that's that's
Speaker 2: the benefit. Is I pay one price for the two terabytes.
Speaker 2: It's ten bucks a month. And guess what all my
Speaker 2: photos are on there? Kate's iPhones backed up, My iPhone's
Speaker 2: backed up, my computer's backed up, the laptops backed up
Speaker 2: to that. That shared family plan. It makes it a
Speaker 2: little bit easier to get in there and control screen
Speaker 2: time settings. Her old ast oughters. Her iPhone is backed
Speaker 2: up onto there as well. It's I love how integrated
Speaker 2: it is. Maybe do the ability to be able to
Speaker 2: look back at pictures from like twenty five years ago,
Speaker 2: like the featured photos. I love that. Yeah, I love
Speaker 2: that We've talked about memory dividends and having those images
Speaker 2: as pictures like at your fingertips. I think it's worth
Speaker 2: it personally, and this is this is something I've done
Speaker 2: in the I guess maybe last year, a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago is when I finally said, all right, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna move all my entire photo library, you know, onto
Speaker 2: the cloud and under the web, as opposed to it
Speaker 2: living on a single single device that was backed up.
Speaker 2: But personally, I think it's I think it's massively worth okay,
Speaker 2: because I feel.
Speaker 1: Like I'm living in like the early two thousands and
Speaker 1: I'm like the files are in the computer, like two
Speaker 1: thousand and five, I think I need to I need
Speaker 1: to have some sort of cloud backup, and maybe I
Speaker 1: just need to stop being a loser and just pony
Speaker 1: up to ten bucks. Well, if listeners have a suggestion
Speaker 1: something outside of the box, I would love to hear it,
Speaker 1: because for us, we have found that it's worth it
Speaker 1: and it works. And oh man, here's just I hate
Speaker 1: all the notifications all the time. It's like you're still
Speaker 1: stone backed up your stuff.
Speaker 2: I know, man, they're trying to get you.
Speaker 1: I know, I feel like I'm being like pushed into
Speaker 1: this relationship.
Speaker 2: Against my will. It feels like you're getting bullied. Yes,
Speaker 2: have you optimized for photo storage? It's where they it's like,
Speaker 2: have you have you looked into your photos your setting?
Speaker 2: I think I've done that recently at least. Basically, it
Speaker 2: stores on your device the like a low res version,
Speaker 2: and the high reds is living on the web on
Speaker 2: the clouds, so that way, if you recall the photo,
Speaker 2: it'll instantly download it basically and allow you to see
Speaker 2: the full reds. If you're like zooming in.
Speaker 1: Okay, for something that still requires paying for the surface stuff,
Speaker 1: well that just requires or it requires less space on
Speaker 1: your actual phone.
Speaker 2: Okay, so yeah, I don't know. I wanted to say
Speaker 2: one other benefit. Man, I don't want this to sound
Speaker 2: like an ad for iCloud, but Kate and I do
Speaker 2: a shared photo library as well, which means that any
Speaker 2: photo she takes in any photo I take, were able
Speaker 2: to see each other's photos, which is awesome. And I
Speaker 2: recently discovered this when you're putting together speaking of buying
Speaker 2: products from different photo companies, I was creating a photo
Speaker 2: album for last year again, memory dividends. Like you know,
Speaker 2: I remember looking at photo albums as a kid, and
Speaker 2: the ability to look back at trips and stuff that
Speaker 2: we had going on, and seeing both of our photos
Speaker 2: together in one single stream to kind of pick the oh, oh,
Speaker 2: actually I want to go with that one instead, it's
Speaker 2: taken from a better angle, that kind of thing. I
Speaker 2: don't know. To me, that was yet another reason why
Speaker 2: I was so thankful to be able to have overlapping
Speaker 2: photo storage like that.
Speaker 1: I'm just like so averse to bringing in another subscription
Speaker 1: into my life.
Speaker 2: I resisted it for a long time too, dude, But
Speaker 2: I'm telling you, the water's fine. It's okay. If yeah,
Speaker 2: if you're willing to pay it up, it's really nice.
Speaker 1: And if you're a listener out there and you're like, no, no,
Speaker 1: there's a better way forward, please tell me now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: all right, let's mention the beer we're having on this episode.
Speaker 1: It's called Cloak and Dagger. It's a Vienna lagger by
Speaker 1: Incendiary Brewing. We'll give our thoughts on this one later
Speaker 1: on the episode, y boy, And if you have a
Speaker 1: money question we want to hear from you, you can
Speaker 1: go to how to money dot com, slash ask, or
Speaker 1: just literally record a voice member with your money question
Speaker 1: on your phone and send it over to us how
Speaker 1: to moneypot at gmail dot com. All right, Matt, let's
Speaker 1: take questions. This question is specifically about it's it's a
Speaker 1: frugal or cheap conundrum in regards to healthcare costs.
Speaker 3: Hey, Jela, Matt, this is Daniel from Salt Lake City.
Speaker 3: I love the podcast, so thanks for all you guys.
Speaker 3: Do I have a question about whether something I'm considering
Speaker 3: is frugal or is just cheap. So We've had a
Speaker 3: lot of medical expenses recently, and I've been trying to
Speaker 3: get to discounts wherever possible. I applied for financial assistance,
Speaker 3: even though I didn't expect to qualify, and ultimately they
Speaker 3: deny me. So when I called the billing department, they
Speaker 3: told me the best discount they could do was just
Speaker 3: ten percent. Now, I've done this before with other hospitals,
Speaker 3: and I've gotten a thirty percent discount before, but they
Speaker 3: wouldn't go any lower. So I asked if there was
Speaker 3: anything else they could do, and the billing specialists they
Speaker 3: mentioned something unconventional. They said, wait until the bill goes
Speaker 3: to their internal collections. You see. He explained that they
Speaker 3: don't report to the credit bureau and that once the
Speaker 3: account is in the collections, they often will discount at thirty, fifty,
Speaker 3: maybe even seventy percent. So my question is would waiting
Speaker 3: for it to go to internal collections to get a
Speaker 3: steeper discount be considered frugal or is that crossing into cheap?
Speaker 3: Thanks guys for all your help.
Speaker 2: Ooh a billing frugal or cheap? Joel and I wondered
Speaker 2: before we kick things off here, I want to say
Speaker 2: that ten percent discount, you know, that's just like the
Speaker 2: standard boiler plate. If anybody asks, you're allowed to give
Speaker 2: them ten percent without having to check with the manager
Speaker 2: that kind of thing. So that means it's like literally
Speaker 2: the lowest possible discount.
Speaker 1: Yeah, offer, and you know if you play if you
Speaker 1: play ball a little bit harder, you can do better.
Speaker 2: Totally. Yeah, And I think Daniel knows that. But I
Speaker 2: love that you are asking the question, Daniel, because medical
Speaker 2: debt is such a pain in the butt, as the
Speaker 2: vast majority of Americans have found out at one point
Speaker 2: or the other. But I'm glad you've gone down the
Speaker 2: financial assistance pathway and you know you ask for that discount.
Speaker 2: Those are the two most likely ways to have medical debt,
Speaker 2: either forgiven or to have that bill reduced in the
Speaker 2: first place. But because it sounds like you make a
Speaker 2: pretty good income, the hospital is being a little stingy
Speaker 2: with you, which I get. But it is true that
Speaker 2: you can let this process just linger for a little
Speaker 2: bit longer in hopes of getting a fatter discount without
Speaker 2: financially harming yourself. And that's actually the key point. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's worth driving home here.
Speaker 1: And when you say let it linger longer, that's because
Speaker 1: there's essentially a twelve a twelve month timeframe that you
Speaker 1: have to work in here.
Speaker 2: Three hundred and sixty five dagy race pier.
Speaker 1: That's right where that this bill will not be reported
Speaker 1: to collections if it remains unpaid. Right at that point
Speaker 1: after that three hundred and sixty five days, that's when
Speaker 1: the unpaid debt can impact your credit, hurt your credit score,
Speaker 1: live on your credit report. So we want you to
Speaker 1: be aware of that deadline. But that means you've got
Speaker 1: like a lot of time, a lot of room to
Speaker 1: wiggle in an attempt to negotiate this debt down. And
Speaker 1: you know, we don't want your desire to get a
Speaker 1: deal and to pay less have a long term impact
Speaker 1: on your credit score, because that can cascade, it can
Speaker 1: impact other areas of your life significantly in a negative way.
Speaker 2: And so just know this.
Speaker 1: You're probably going to get some letters in the mail
Speaker 1: with big red letters on them saying like final notice
Speaker 1: or something like that. But don't freak out. Bi'll overdo right.
Speaker 1: You get all sorts of stuff. And that's what I
Speaker 1: think causes a lot of people to pay before they're ready,
Speaker 1: because it strikes fear into your heart, understandably. So when
Speaker 1: you see those letters written on a mailer, that's that
Speaker 1: you get in you know in snail mail. But this,
Speaker 1: this twelve month window essentially gives you a lot of
Speaker 1: time and a lot of leverage to wait for a
Speaker 1: better deal. Yeah, most people don't realize that that's their right.
Speaker 1: They don't know that that's how things work, and so
Speaker 1: because of that, they pay prematurely and they don't get
Speaker 1: maybe the discount or the breaking price that they deserve.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's like a game of chicken, right, because
Speaker 2: they're they're wanting you to flinch first, but the closer
Speaker 2: you get to the end of that, they're thinking, oh
Speaker 2: my gosh, this guy may may not actually be able
Speaker 2: to pay, so we're willing to take Lessah. And you
Speaker 2: know this is going to sound a bit sketchy where
Speaker 2: you're waiting to get a better deal. But you know,
Speaker 2: I'm going to say that the entire healthcare system is
Speaker 2: a bit sketchy, and consumers have to figure out how
Speaker 2: it is they're going to navigate the system that isn't
Speaker 2: well constructed. It seems a bit unfair to a lot
Speaker 2: of folks. And in this case, we're gonna side with
Speaker 2: the patients. We're gonna side with you, Daniel, not for
Speaker 2: the hospitals out there and in large part this is
Speaker 2: another reason why it's not sketchy. Is this grace period
Speaker 2: exists because oftentimes because most people have insurance, and so
Speaker 2: if you get a claim that's denied, well, it gives
Speaker 2: you time to fight that claim because the hospital wants
Speaker 2: you do have time, like they're doing this for you
Speaker 2: so that you can get your insurance company to pay them.
Speaker 2: They're like, help me, help you. So that's one of
Speaker 2: the reasons. But also there can be medical billing errors,
Speaker 2: and so that gives you time to spend some time
Speaker 2: looking over the bill, making sure that things are coded correctly.
Speaker 1: That's the word, right, Yeah, and to make sure wait
Speaker 1: a second, you charge me how much for that aspirin?
Speaker 1: Or wait you charged me for this thing that that
Speaker 1: seems that I didn't actually get that service at ridict yeh, yeah, you.
Speaker 2: Can put fact on that. So it's not just the
Speaker 2: insurance company making errors, but it oftentimes can be the
Speaker 2: actual hospital making errors from time to time. And I
Speaker 2: want to go back to what you said too. I
Speaker 2: think how the money listeners in particular are at a
Speaker 2: distinct disadvantage here because I think if you are listening
Speaker 2: to the show, you are somebody who's a bit more organized.
Speaker 2: You certainly have got financial goals, like in your sights, right,
Speaker 2: and so you see this thing show up and all
Speaker 2: of a sudden it looks like a financial threat, and
Speaker 2: you just want to pounce on it. You want to
Speaker 2: kept like immediately eliminate it. But what that means is
Speaker 2: you're actually paying more than you need to. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you eradicate it too quickly, it means you've
Speaker 1: like you didn't use your leverage and you didn't use
Speaker 1: the possibility, like the tactics that are available to you
Speaker 1: to try and reduce that bill instead of just like
Speaker 1: paying the full price and getting it over with. I
Speaker 1: get that impulse, yeah, but ultimately that is going to
Speaker 1: cost you more than you need to pay.
Speaker 2: Totally. I just think it's ironic that somebody who's maybe
Speaker 2: more disorganized out there yellow and yeah, is gonna be
Speaker 2: the one who's paying, like actually will be able to
Speaker 2: pay less because oh I hadn't seen that bill or
Speaker 2: I didn't even open that envelope. There's like three of
Speaker 2: them on the desk. I hadn't you know. Oh that
Speaker 2: was six months ago, and all of a sudden they've
Speaker 2: cut the bill by like thirty percent and talking about internally,
Speaker 2: oh maybe forty percent.
Speaker 1: Right data, it's like best of both worlds for right
Speaker 1: because he is organized and he's ready, he's prepared, and
Speaker 1: he's looking for a discount. So it's not he's not
Speaker 1: just yellowing it. He's he's going to this eyes wide
Speaker 1: open and an attempt to save money. I also thought
Speaker 1: it was really interesting the person on the phone, and
Speaker 1: you will occasionally find this right where they toss out
Speaker 1: a piece of advice and it's kind of like you're
Speaker 1: played blackjack matter at casino and never oh, it's really fun.
Speaker 2: I know how to play.
Speaker 1: It's been a long time. Yeah, but we'll find some
Speaker 1: people are some of the dealers are a little more
Speaker 1: tight lipped than others. And when you're playing with people
Speaker 1: who don't know how to play blackjack, you are thankful
Speaker 1: when the dealer is a little more open about strategy
Speaker 1: because they're often they teach you a little bit, they
Speaker 1: help the person make a better move and that helps
Speaker 1: everyone at the table. And and so this is one
Speaker 1: of those things where the person in customer service is
Speaker 1: not being tight lipped, there being a little hey in
Speaker 1: actually in our system, this is how it works and
Speaker 1: if you wait a little bit longer, they're basically telegraphing
Speaker 1: this to you.
Speaker 2: They're like advocating on your behalf right.
Speaker 1: Saying, well, I can't help you right now, but if
Speaker 1: you take this strategy, you can probably save in the
Speaker 1: long run. And so I think I would do what
Speaker 1: Daniel is suggesting. I would wait for it to go
Speaker 1: into collections in an attempt to work out a one
Speaker 1: time cash payment for a lower percentage.
Speaker 2: Of the balance.
Speaker 1: And Matt, you talked about ten percent being a crummy discount.
Speaker 1: What do you think maybe a good discount to shoot
Speaker 1: for would be.
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean, I think it varies. So here's the thing,
Speaker 2: full disclosure. I've not done this personally, but I kind
Speaker 2: of am excited for the next medical again, just to
Speaker 2: be like, don't think I'm going to pay it for
Speaker 2: a little bit and see what happens. Like I think
Speaker 2: thirty percent seems like a slam dunk. Like I'm sorry
Speaker 2: that that is most definitely going to be offered to you.
Speaker 2: Whether or not you get a forty percent or fifty
Speaker 2: percent or even higher, I think I don't know, but
Speaker 2: I do think the closer you get to the end
Speaker 2: of that runway they you know, collections, they start feeling
Speaker 2: a little bit nervous because beyond that, they're selling it
Speaker 2: for pennies on the dollar to an external collections agency, right,
Speaker 2: and at that point they're going to receive even less
Speaker 2: from a potential.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I'll kind of treat this as a
Speaker 1: game a little bit, And Daniel's already kind of taking
Speaker 1: that gamification approach, But I think you're right. I think
Speaker 1: shooting for that fifty plus percent discount and then settling
Speaker 1: for a thirty percent discount, right, if if that's all
Speaker 1: that's offered to you after a significant time period of
Speaker 1: trying to work this out, it's going to be a
Speaker 1: little bit of a part time job. It's going to
Speaker 1: be a little bit like playing a whack a mole.
Speaker 1: But ultimately, I think if you are intent on saving
Speaker 1: money on this bill and you kind of let things
Speaker 1: run their course while being active in the process, you
Speaker 1: can probably save a lot of money off this medical bill.
Speaker 1: And I don't know, maybe at some point we should
Speaker 1: probably publish like a how to guide like how to
Speaker 1: and you know what, Actually it's on my radar map
Speaker 1: to do a full episode on this soon.
Speaker 2: So let's make that happen. Also sounds good. Actually, we're
Speaker 2: going to talk more about healthcare stuff hsas, but not
Speaker 2: from a medical standpoint, from an investing standpoint. We'll get
Speaker 2: to that and more right after this. All right, we'll back.
Speaker 1: We got more of your money questions to get to.
Speaker 1: Let's get to a question now about student loans and
Speaker 1: how to proceed in a time where things are a
Speaker 1: little murky.
Speaker 4: Hey, Matt and Joel, this is Adam in Chicago. So
Speaker 4: my question is about student loans. Currently, I qualify for
Speaker 4: public service loan forgiveness, but my loans are still in forbearance.
Speaker 4: Therefore payments are not considered qualifying. And that's fine for now,
Speaker 4: because I'm using that extra money on money Gear three
Speaker 4: to pay off high interest credit card debt through a
Speaker 4: zero percent interest balance transfer I did on a new card.
Speaker 2: I have the save.
Speaker 4: Plan right now. So what do you recommend I do
Speaker 4: when I finish paying off this credit card debt? Should
Speaker 4: I switch out of the plan to another like IDR
Speaker 4: payment or I don't know. I have no idea since
Speaker 4: the current administration and Congress, you know, are still debating things,
Speaker 4: so I'm kind of skipping. I know, money gears four
Speaker 4: and five thinking about you know, low interest debt, but
Speaker 4: I wanted to make sure I don't screw up any
Speaker 4: loan forgiveness stuff in the future. Thanks for your advice.
Speaker 2: Cheers cheers indeed, Adam, And first off, I hope that
Speaker 2: Joel's recent conversation. So Joel talked with Stanley Tait, the
Speaker 2: student loan lawyer. He's awesome, Stanley Tait esquire. He's also like.
Speaker 1: Laid back, which I so appreciate because we're talking about
Speaker 1: such an intent subject. There's so much like emotion around
Speaker 1: student loans, and there's so much frustration, and Stanley's just
Speaker 1: like chill.
Speaker 2: Man, a literal, nice calming voice. Just also how and
Speaker 2: how he approaches student loans and what all is going
Speaker 2: on right now as well. But in addition to that, Adam,
Speaker 2: I love that you are using this forbearance period to
Speaker 2: make progress all on your other money goals, right like
Speaker 2: you are not increasing your spending, you're not counting your
Speaker 2: chickens before they hatch. To a certain extent. Here this
Speaker 2: multi year pause, man, it was such a good time
Speaker 2: for folks to do what it is that you are doing.
Speaker 2: But sadly, most folks didn't heed that advice, and that's
Speaker 2: the advice that we were spouting. Oh, we were telling
Speaker 2: people just to hey, make hay well the sunshine and
Speaker 2: take advantage of.
Speaker 1: Like don Quixote or something tilting at windmills. Because I
Speaker 1: don't know how many people are listening, but I definitely
Speaker 1: I know some how to money. Folks were listening, and
Speaker 1: we've heard from those people. Maybe Adam maybe he was listening,
Speaker 1: probably yes, heard. We've heard from those people who were
Speaker 1: able to do massive things, make huge strides by not
Speaker 1: having a student loan payment in their life for a
Speaker 1: while and by doing really intelligent stuff with that money
Speaker 1: in that meantime. But yeah, as payments have re started,
Speaker 1: we have documented this too on the show Matt. It
Speaker 1: has put so many people in an even worse financial
Speaker 1: predicament because they got used to incorporating that student loan
Speaker 1: payment back into their budget. Prices are rising. I get it,
Speaker 1: You're like, great, now I've got a little more money
Speaker 1: on hand to make ends meet. But then when payments restart,
Speaker 1: people are like, holy crap, I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1: And it has put a lot of folks in a bind.
Speaker 1: Obviously a lot of people behind on payments right now.
Speaker 1: And so Adam, specifically to your question, we would say,
Speaker 1: keep trying to pay off that zero percent interest credit
Speaker 1: card debt. The goal would be to eradicate it before
Speaker 1: your payment restarts, which is like maybe this spring or summer,
Speaker 1: like I don't know exactly when, and that's still kind
Speaker 1: of in limbo. But the big risk in not paying
Speaker 1: towards your loans while you're in this administrative forbearance is
Speaker 1: racking up more debt because interest is accruing. But that
Speaker 1: actually isn't that big of a deal for you, right
Speaker 1: because you're working towards full debt forgiveness down the line.
Speaker 1: So even if the balance is getting bigger, hopefully it's
Speaker 1: that bigger balance essentially that's going to be forgiven down
Speaker 1: the road. And so this is just not as daunting
Speaker 1: to have a growing balance as someone who isn't working
Speaker 1: toward PSL left.
Speaker 2: So that is true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And by the way, I know some people worry
Speaker 1: about the how long PSLF if it is going to
Speaker 1: stick around, and you know, talking with Stanley and just
Speaker 1: everything else I've seen, there is there's no danger of
Speaker 1: PSLF going away, so that that's not something plans that.
Speaker 2: Are already in existence. Yes, it's yeah. I mean they're
Speaker 2: not going to say that they're grandfathered in, but you're
Speaker 2: not going to get kicked out of something that you
Speaker 2: are already in. Uh, there's actually yes. With the Safe Plan, Well,
Speaker 2: but that was like short was never actually implemented. I
Speaker 2: mean people got onto the plan, that is true, and
Speaker 2: then and then it was completely gunned and it was
Speaker 2: run pulled, it was gutted. So but PSLF is like inshoots. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: student loan not just lore but actual policy. Yeah, but
Speaker 2: there's actually a chance that some of these months where
Speaker 2: you're not paying are going to count towards your PSLF timeline,
Speaker 2: which by the way, is Public Service loan forgiveness. It
Speaker 2: is not likely, but it might be possible because who
Speaker 2: knows the student loan space. It's a moving darker right now,
Speaker 2: so it's tough to know. But man, if I were
Speaker 2: in your shoes, I would put in the Safe Plan
Speaker 2: for the time being as you basically get automatically enrolled
Speaker 2: into the new RAP that which is Repayment Assistance Plan,
Speaker 2: and we'll see what that looks like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like you're you're hanging on You're waiting for
Speaker 1: them to actually like finish pulling the rug. But for
Speaker 1: that time, you're you can be on the same rug.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just stay put. There's no point in moving to
Speaker 2: a different repayment plan earlier than is necessary, especially with
Speaker 2: a potential for some of these months that you spent
Speaker 2: in four bearans to count towards your PSLF timeline, you're
Speaker 2: gonna hit it one of these days. So there's just
Speaker 2: no need to like rush to kick start payments again,
Speaker 2: especially given your situation. Oh and by the way, you
Speaker 2: mentioned too as far as like him hopefully eliminating that
Speaker 2: high interest rate that credit card debt prior to student
Speaker 2: loans resuming, but also before that zero percent period of
Speaker 2: time before that expires as well, because that is gonna
Speaker 2: be a sky high rate compared to you know, whatever
Speaker 2: the rate is on his student loans. It's a great point.
Speaker 2: So it's a double waymie for you to get rid
Speaker 2: of that credit card debt and hopefully never enter into
Speaker 2: it again. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good point, because if you start paying
Speaker 1: on the student loan and it and you lose your
Speaker 1: vigor of paying on that credit card debt and then
Speaker 1: you're starting to pay interest on that puppy again, trying
Speaker 1: to do both. You have that singular focus right now,
Speaker 1: and you have a great timeline to pay it down
Speaker 1: without paying interest. So I think that's why is Matt
Speaker 1: and ultimately Adam, we don't want you to trigger a
Speaker 1: higher payment or you know, hit your head against the
Speaker 1: wall trying to talk to student loan servicers who are backlogged.
Speaker 1: When you're in a solid spot, the key is just
Speaker 1: to keep doing what you're doing, pay down the debt,
Speaker 1: build a saving s buffer so that you're ready for
Speaker 1: payments to resume, and then it's not going to be
Speaker 1: nearly as much of a financial shock in let's say
Speaker 1: June or July when those payments come back and you're migrated,
Speaker 1: because you're mentally prepared, right especially especially if you've saved
Speaker 1: up a few months worth of payments and you have
Speaker 1: fewer debt obligations. That is the double whammy, Like I've
Speaker 1: got no credit card debt anymore, so that money's safe
Speaker 1: and can go towards other things, and at the same
Speaker 1: time you built up a little bit of cushion.
Speaker 2: That's the best of both worlds, that's right. Yeah, we
Speaker 2: would be remiss to not mention the PSLF buyback program.
Speaker 2: So the way this works, if you are close to forgiveness,
Speaker 2: this is a way for you to retroactively turn months
Speaker 2: that didn't count as qualifying PSLF payments. So in your case,
Speaker 2: it's the months that you spent in fourbearans into qualifying
Speaker 2: months by paying what you would have paid under an
Speaker 2: income driven an IDR plan during those months. But you
Speaker 2: can only take advantage of that if you have enough
Speaker 2: cash on hand to get you exactly to that one
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty month mark. And so it's like a
Speaker 2: very I don't know, it's a very precise maneuver. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and if you are really close to being out of that,
Speaker 2: I think that's something. It's sort of like some folks
Speaker 2: who are just like, man, I'm thinking about folks who
Speaker 2: have like a mortgage and they're just like, I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna I want to be done with it. So that's
Speaker 2: up to you and whether that makes sense from giving
Speaker 2: your financial situation.
Speaker 1: And it seems like with Adams particulars, there are just
Speaker 1: other things that are higher private.
Speaker 2: He's got other goals. I think he's absolutely just going
Speaker 2: to let this scene. He's going to write it out
Speaker 2: and just have a ton forgiven.
Speaker 1: But for a handful of folks out there that could
Speaker 1: make sense, I guess it's worth at least considering the
Speaker 1: PSLF buy back program. If you're like, oh man, I'm
Speaker 1: within shouting distance, I'm so close, and i could get
Speaker 1: rid of it sooner rather than later, and I've got
Speaker 1: the cash on hand than boom, I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: at least worth kind of running the numbers and thinking
Speaker 1: through it. That's right, Joel.
Speaker 2: Let's hear from a listener who is using a retirement
Speaker 2: accounts that is even sweeter than the roth IRA. Let's
Speaker 2: here from Abbie, Hi, Matt, and Joel.
Speaker 5: This is Abby from Iowa. I have a quick question
Speaker 5: regarding HSA money distributions. My husband and I are in
Speaker 5: our late thirties with two children and working to currently
Speaker 5: grow our HSA funds and saving our receipts to make
Speaker 5: the most of this count in our retirement years. My
Speaker 5: question has to do with receipts regarding our children's medical expenses.
Speaker 5: At the moment, when they're dependents, we can use their
Speaker 5: expenses to be reimbursed, but will this still be the
Speaker 5: case once they're over twenty six and off our insurance plans.
Speaker 5: For example, my eight year old is about to get braces.
Speaker 5: Will we be able to use this receipt twenty years
Speaker 5: down the road when she's no longer a dependent or
Speaker 5: will it only be my husband and I's expenses that
Speaker 5: we can get reimbursed for. Thanks for any information you
Speaker 5: can give us, and go.
Speaker 2: Hawks, Matt. Do you also root for the Hawks? That
Speaker 2: is that a sports team? I think so. I think
Speaker 2: it's a sports ball reference the Atlanta Hawks. She's in Iowa.
Speaker 2: Why is she reading for the Hawks? Is that the Hawkeyes?
Speaker 2: Is that?
Speaker 1: Maybe this the Iowah Hawk eyes and maybe they call
Speaker 1: them Hawks for short.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm sure that that makes more sense.
Speaker 1: I know the mascots for most of these teams because the.
Speaker 2: Picture of the logo, it's got the circle with the
Speaker 2: Hawks outline. Classic I used to care about. From a
Speaker 2: graphic design standpoint, I love it. But from an actual
Speaker 2: sports ball standpoint, not quite my thing.
Speaker 1: Man, I feel so out of the loop on sports
Speaker 1: these days.
Speaker 2: But I gosh, I used to like the sport of running.
Speaker 2: That's what you're obsessed with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's like a solo pursuiting most part, though, h
Speaker 1: It used to be like gathering with friends to watch.
Speaker 2: You run with more friends than anybody I've ever heard of.
Speaker 2: That's true. I have a lot of running buddies, which
Speaker 2: I think when a start. Yeah, no, we'll talk about this.
Speaker 1: Okay, enough of the sports talk, but let's let's let's
Speaker 1: talk about hsas. Matt I recently spoke with had a
Speaker 1: money listener who is retired, and he's so thrilled that
Speaker 1: he built up such a big HSA balance and he's
Speaker 1: he's like over over he was glowing about the flexibility
Speaker 1: that the account affords him, like the ability to tap
Speaker 1: it without paying a dime of tax based on healthcare
Speaker 1: costs and he accrued decades before. He was just like
Speaker 1: over the moon with how incredible the HSA is. And
Speaker 1: and this sounds like the boat Abby's gonna find herself
Speaker 1: in if she continues down this path. We got to
Speaker 1: address our question, We got get some of the nitty gritties.
Speaker 1: But that's what makes the HSA. You're glad to hear
Speaker 1: that she's doing it. Yeah, And it's just fun to
Speaker 1: hear from somebody who's thirty years down the road and
Speaker 1: is like, oh, yeah, it's all, it's all.
Speaker 2: It's cracked up to be uh huh, yeah, totally. Okay,
Speaker 2: let's talk about like the general mechanics of the health
Speaker 2: savings account, because contrary to its name, the savings part,
Speaker 2: it's actually more of an investing account. But we believe
Speaker 2: that they are by far the stealthiest way to save
Speaker 2: for retirement because of the tax advantages that you accrue.
Speaker 2: They're not just tax advantage. You can literally like avoid
Speaker 2: taxes completely for the money that you put into an HSA.
Speaker 2: And then of course, in addition to that, not only
Speaker 2: are you just stashing those dollars away, but you are
Speaker 2: investing those dollars. This is how this is a retirement account.
Speaker 2: You are not interrupting the compounding unnecessarily a la Charlie Munger, Right,
Speaker 2: there's HSA dollars get to they get to live to
Speaker 2: grow another day. And what you're doing is you're paying
Speaker 2: for your medical expenses out of pocket in order to
Speaker 2: keep those HSA dollars untouched.
Speaker 1: And it's a really cool account if you used it
Speaker 1: like a health savings account like as prescribed, right, it's
Speaker 1: cool just in the sense that you can avoid a
Speaker 1: bunch of taxation, but it's super duper extra cool if
Speaker 1: you invest and you're like growing a stockpile of money
Speaker 1: that never gets taxed, right, that completely avoids the taxman.
Speaker 1: That's what makes it like on steroids, superpower, supercharged. So
Speaker 1: let's talk about the specifics and the specifics of Abbey's question.
Speaker 1: Will your HSA still benefit you in the same way
Speaker 1: once your kids grow up? That's kind of the heart
Speaker 1: of your question, And the answer is yes. The key,
Speaker 1: the clutch thing to know is essentially this that you're
Speaker 1: the HSA eligibility is determined at the time the medical
Speaker 1: expense is incurred, not when you reimburse yourself. So doesn't
Speaker 1: really matter like what's going on with your family life,
Speaker 1: how old you are, how far down the road. Let's
Speaker 1: say your kid is on your health insurance policy right now, right,
Speaker 1: and the expense occurs in twenty twenty six, you can
Speaker 1: still tap your HSA thirty years later in twenty fifty six,
Speaker 1: after it's grown a ton, right, And even if your
Speaker 1: child then who is going to be a full grown adult,
Speaker 1: is not on your policy.
Speaker 2: So we're talking.
Speaker 1: I think she said her daughter was her child was
Speaker 1: eight years old, and so she to get braces, daughter
Speaker 1: would be thirty eight years old brace is long gone,
Speaker 1: super straight teeth hopefully.
Speaker 2: Yeah, where your retainer?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know there's gonna be allowing to go back
Speaker 1: and do braces as an adult again, to rectify from
Speaker 1: not where I would wear my retainer every night.
Speaker 2: Match just for that reason. Do you really? Yeah? Oh,
Speaker 2: good for you every night. I don't. We don't do
Speaker 2: any sleepovers, although no, I knew that, Like, well, we've
Speaker 2: traveled together and yeah, it's just been a minute. I
Speaker 2: keep it around. I'm not taking too many mental notes
Speaker 2: of your your retainer container, my hygie, what do you
Speaker 2: call it? Do you call it a retainer container? Retainer box?
Speaker 2: I guess yeah, never thought about it, like me and neither.
Speaker 1: But really, this it's all about what was going on
Speaker 1: when the expense was initially incurred.
Speaker 2: Initially.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't matter that your child is no longer
Speaker 1: on your insurance policy, or that it's many decades later. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's not expected that she or any or either of
Speaker 1: your kids will be on your insurance. Like like literally,
Speaker 1: you could envision the future where you aren't even on
Speaker 1: a high deductible healthcare plan, where you even have access
Speaker 1: to an HSA, right, and so would then the expenses
Speaker 1: that you incurred back when you did.
Speaker 2: Would those qualify absolutely one percent? Yes, for sure.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You could be in a different employer, a completely different
Speaker 1: insurance company, and or beginning your own policy on the
Speaker 1: open market or something like that, and you'd still it
Speaker 1: wouldn't do anything about your past expenses.
Speaker 2: This week will be you could be on the single
Speaker 2: pair of government plan that we're all set to beyond.
Speaker 2: At the rate that we're going, we're whatever. Yeah, like yeah,
Speaker 2: regardless of what the future holds, it doesn't matter because
Speaker 2: it's we're talking about what happened here in the past.
Speaker 2: Never be revoked. It's not going to be deemed ineligible.
Speaker 2: But of course you're going to want to keep the
Speaker 2: receipts in order to prove eligibility. This is, of course,
Speaker 2: because if you were to get audited by the IRS
Speaker 2: down the road, you're gonna want to have a trail
Speaker 2: of receipts. You're gonna want to have tax returns to
Speaker 2: show first of all that your daughter was you're dependent
Speaker 2: when the braces were put on, but also just to
Speaker 2: show improve the exact amounts of the expenses that you incurred.
Speaker 2: And I'm not talking about say like you don't have
Speaker 2: to keep up with the literal receipts. But even just
Speaker 2: like digital receipts or even snaping a photo of it,
Speaker 2: I cannot imagine the future where you're gonna where you
Speaker 2: would need to be able to literally show physical receipts
Speaker 2: as opposed to just having be organized about it, like
Speaker 2: have your Google Drive HSA receipt folder. And normally I
Speaker 2: would also say to keep a little spreadsheet or you've
Speaker 2: got the date, you know, in order to stay organized.
Speaker 2: You've got the date, You've got a little description of
Speaker 2: the medical procedure or the product or the medicine or whatever,
Speaker 2: as well as the price. That way you have a
Speaker 2: running total and so you know, oh, this is how
Speaker 2: much I can completely tax free take out of my HSA. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I feel differently about that nogel, you know why, Because
Speaker 2: of AI. This seems like such a perfect job to
Speaker 2: be able to upload a bunch of receipts and say, hey,
Speaker 2: keep trying this for me, yes, or just like you
Speaker 2: can do it once a year and just be like, hey,
Speaker 2: give me a total amount, give me data columns of
Speaker 2: you know, date description where it was incurred, a total amount.
Speaker 2: Give me some also export that create that as a
Speaker 2: Google sheet unless the AI.
Speaker 1: Starts to blackmail you with your own health records, which
Speaker 1: is you never now man.
Speaker 2: This just saying this is a good use case for
Speaker 2: a large language model to be able to take care
Speaker 2: of that for you.
Speaker 1: True, But I think what you're getting at too is
Speaker 1: really important. Not only are you keeping those receipts to
Speaker 1: prove to the IRS in the case it's necessary, but
Speaker 1: you're also documenting all that stuff. So basically it's a
Speaker 1: good good idea to keep track of the eligible healthcare
Speaker 1: procedures you've gone through so that you have a decent
Speaker 1: unders of how much money you have access to tax
Speaker 1: free without you know, violating the essence of the HSA.
Speaker 2: That's right. It also makes sense too from like, if
Speaker 2: I could picture a scenario where like five ten years
Speaker 2: in the future, if you are trying to decide, oh,
Speaker 2: do I put more money into my HSA that I'm
Speaker 2: still eligible for that I still have or should I
Speaker 2: contribute more over here, and if you're looking at some
Speaker 2: of your medical expenses and you're and you're incredibly healthy,
Speaker 2: and actually the teeth never needed braces to begin with,
Speaker 2: And if I could see a scenario where let's say
Speaker 2: you've got forty thousand dollars thirty forty thousand dollars in there,
Speaker 2: and you've only occurred like seven thousand and medical expenses.
Speaker 2: I could see a scenario maybe where I would even
Speaker 2: kind of back off a little bit if I had
Speaker 2: some other financial goals. Right, it's just to be able
Speaker 2: to provide that data set for you so that you
Speaker 2: can make the most informed decision off in the future
Speaker 2: without getting a little too far over your skis.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if you don't have enough medical expenses, right,
Speaker 1: that HSA down the road can turn into a glorified IRA.
Speaker 1: And so yeah, look into no how.
Speaker 2: That tax advantaged. But you just have to pay one
Speaker 2: set of taxes, that's right, instead of four.
Speaker 1: I think in some ways this helps make the friction
Speaker 1: and the cost of braces feel a little less onerousy,
Speaker 1: even though it's still it's so expensive. And I realized
Speaker 1: I've got two kids kind of on that and in
Speaker 1: the orthodontria plan right now, what about the third you
Speaker 1: think he's going to begin in, No, he's totally gonna do.
Speaker 1: He's just like he's only got like maybe three or
Speaker 1: four big kid teeth right now. But the two front
Speaker 1: ones they are. I can already tell he's gonna need
Speaker 1: it at some point.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's expensive. Oh man, it makes me think
Speaker 2: of it. So our school every year we do an
Speaker 2: auction and items get donated. It's like a fundraiser or whatever.
Speaker 2: And I saw that local Orthodoge Orthodonist office donated like
Speaker 2: a five thousand dollars package, which that's like one kid
Speaker 2: to get in through braces. Oh is it? Oh yeah?
Speaker 2: Is that like one year? No, I mean that's like
Speaker 2: or that's like a whole that's like a few years
Speaker 2: worth of fixing some teeth. We basically prepaid. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was like a deal to say, yeah, all right,
Speaker 1: we're gonna pay for the treed in the next few
Speaker 1: years for this kid in one fell swoop.
Speaker 2: And it's just you're just saying, I'll put that on your
Speaker 2: radar because if you can get in there, nobody. You
Speaker 2: know what if you bid like three four hundred bucks
Speaker 2: on it, snag a five thousand dollars package, that's like
Speaker 2: a heavy sweet that's a reduced that's the kind of
Speaker 2: gift card that you're all about, right where you're getting
Speaker 2: four thousand dollars worth of food for four hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: That's my chan, that's my chant. All right, we got
Speaker 1: more of your money questions to get to, including we're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about financial infidelity, to delve into that and
Speaker 1: more right after this.
Speaker 2: All right, buddy, we are back from the break. It
Speaker 2: is now time for the Facebook question of the week,
Speaker 2: which is from Tara. She writes, Hello, I like that.
Speaker 2: I like that She started with Hello, my husband and
Speaker 2: I are expecting our first baby in June. I'd love
Speaker 2: to hear your financial tips for a growing family. We
Speaker 2: are in money gear seven and have started a savings
Speaker 2: bucket for hospital bills. Holy caw. I love that. On
Speaker 2: top of it already, yeah, I mean, aside from money
Speaker 2: gear seven, I guess let's talk about we're in a role.
Speaker 2: We're talking a lot about medical stuff, hospital bills and whatnot.
Speaker 2: But I love that you are already saving ahead for this, Tara.
Speaker 2: How big of a savings bucket or a sinking phone
Speaker 2: you're gonna need is going to depend on your insurance,
Speaker 2: of course, but if you can figure out the likely
Speaker 2: bill amounts ahead of time via a good faith estimate,
Speaker 2: you can start to aim to have that amount on hand.
Speaker 2: I'm guessing for a lot of folks it's probably around
Speaker 2: three grand.
Speaker 1: Through solid assure. Yeah, so much depends on your insurance company.
Speaker 2: But be ready to fight individual items on that bill
Speaker 2: if they're excessive, sort of like we've already discussed, and
Speaker 2: depending on your income, you might qualify for partial or
Speaker 2: full forgiveness of that final bill. I kind of think
Speaker 2: maybe that's not the case. So considering the fact that
Speaker 2: she is in money Gear number seven, which is such
Speaker 2: an advanced kind of place to be, I feel like
Speaker 2: when you're having your normally it's like first kid. Also, uh,
Speaker 2: we need new tires on the car, or you know,
Speaker 2: the big sister has got orthodogical, you know, like all
Speaker 2: the things are hitting you when you're having a baby.
Speaker 2: But I love that they are in a position to
Speaker 2: where these aren't some of the stresses that they're experiencing.
Speaker 1: The one reason that makes me think there's at least
Speaker 1: a chance that they qualify it for financial assistance is
Speaker 1: because it's based on income. It's not based on networth.
Speaker 1: So who knows. I guess she could say somebody.
Speaker 2: Started being diligence, Yeah at age sixteen, built out that
Speaker 2: massive net Yeah, massive net worth, and isn't making its
Speaker 2: unknown there's a chance yep.
Speaker 1: So I think another thing to put on your radar
Speaker 1: is five twenty nine plan. It's it's not something we're
Speaker 1: typically recommending to new parents, but or at least beyond
Speaker 1: just a starter amount to get the clock ticking on
Speaker 1: those accounts. But you've already taken care of your own savings,
Speaker 1: right You're investing incredibly well. Not sure what state you
Speaker 1: live in, but there's a good chance you can reduce
Speaker 1: your state tax bill while also investing for your baby's future.
Speaker 1: So that could be like a win win thing right there.
Speaker 1: And so whether that five twenty nine money is intended
Speaker 1: for private school, whether it's college, whether it's for you know,
Speaker 1: a roth Ira starter for your baby down the road
Speaker 1: as well, which is one of the cool things right
Speaker 1: about five twenty nine plans these days. So you can
Speaker 1: turn money that you stick into that that's not needed
Speaker 1: for college into roth Ira dollars later on. Getting some
Speaker 1: money flowing in that direction I think right now is
Speaker 1: something we strongly consider totally.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then beyond like specific accounts, man, I would
Speaker 2: give yourself permission to spend as much time with that
Speaker 2: baby as you want, like when you are in a
Speaker 2: personal finance group chat or a Facebook group and ask
Speaker 2: another folks, there's going to be a whole lot of
Speaker 2: chatter about, yeah, this account and obviously that's where your
Speaker 2: mind's at, and obviously it's paid off well. Like, look
Speaker 2: at the fact that you're in money gear seven and
Speaker 2: you're having your first kid. But the ability and I
Speaker 2: don't know, you probably heard people say this toil, but
Speaker 2: it's your presence, not presents like toys and stuff and
Speaker 2: all the material wealth, the ability for you to provide
Speaker 2: just so many memories being there for your kid and
Speaker 2: just like fun stuff that you do together as a like,
Speaker 2: it's amazing experiences that you can be a part of.
Speaker 2: But then also just some of the routine day to
Speaker 2: day living where you are incredibly present and interacting in
Speaker 2: a just life giving, very rich way. Man, I think
Speaker 2: that's amazing, right, because as your kid gets older, they can,
Speaker 2: like money is fungible, they can get their own money.
Speaker 2: At some point they will be making their own money.
Speaker 2: But as far as memory is really not for like
Speaker 2: you know, a while, that's a while, but like it's
Speaker 2: something that they can always create more of. Whereas the
Speaker 2: time that they're going to be able to spend with
Speaker 2: you the memories that involve you in a significant way.
Speaker 2: That is a very limited resource. It's something I think
Speaker 2: about more as I get older, too, where I'm just like, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's I care less about my kid's financial future as
Speaker 2: opposed to how I'm raising them and the lessons I'm
Speaker 2: imparting upon them and kind of the memories that you know,
Speaker 2: we're trying to basically instill in them. Yeah, those lessons.
Speaker 1: What you're saying essentially is like you're in money yourself
Speaker 1: and act like it, like take advantage of some of
Speaker 1: the freedom and independence that you have earned over a
Speaker 1: long period of doing the right stuff. And I think
Speaker 1: I think that's spot on. I think it's really easy
Speaker 1: to think I gotta do more. I can keep doing more, Okay,
Speaker 1: I got to keep I gotta work more. So I can,
Speaker 1: you know, max out the five twenty nine fund, because
Speaker 1: that's the next thing Matt and Joel said, and yeah,
Speaker 1: we mentioned that, right, but we also want to balance
Speaker 1: it out here and say, you're in money gear seven,
Speaker 1: you have a lot of optionality, don't don't waste that.
Speaker 1: I guess when these are precious times, totally agree, all right.
Speaker 1: Next question, This one comes from anonymous who says, has
Speaker 1: anyone dealt with financial infidelity over the holidays? My wife
Speaker 1: racked up six thousand dollars in credit card debt. It
Speaker 1: was unknown to me until I started pressing more on
Speaker 1: how she was paying for all the packages coming.
Speaker 2: To the house.
Speaker 1: It upsets me more because this is the second or
Speaker 1: third time it's happened since getting married. We're agreeing on
Speaker 1: no more every day credit card usage and only using
Speaker 1: it when both in agreement. To add, she is going
Speaker 1: through therapy and doing EMD are specifically right now, so
Speaker 1: at times she's not in the best headspace. That's kind
Speaker 1: of a type of therapy mat where like you're it's
Speaker 1: attempting to bring up earlier childhood memories that might be
Speaker 1: impressed about that eye movement something. Yeah, yeah, well, I
Speaker 1: swear actually we've the eyeball therapy. We've had a guest
Speaker 1: on who's gone through that as well.
Speaker 2: Oh really was it?
Speaker 1: Ed Combs, who's a therapist who money therapist too, talked
Speaker 1: about that with us. But the end of this question says,
Speaker 1: it's just frustrating to me because we literally just built
Speaker 1: our emergency fund and now we are six thousand dollars
Speaker 1: in credit card debt. The card is only in her name,
Speaker 1: by the way, I don't know what to do. I'm
Speaker 1: tired of paying off debt.
Speaker 2: Man, this is this is awful, Like it totally sucks,
Speaker 2: and I feel like I hear the frustration in this
Speaker 2: this individual's voice hundred percent. Yeah, it's a really tough
Speaker 2: position to be in. And I'm also just a little
Speaker 2: I feel a little unsure to provide advice when man,
Speaker 2: like you're hearing one side of the argument, you know,
Speaker 2: because I'm sure there's a lot of other folks who
Speaker 2: might immediately be like, well, what about this? And have
Speaker 2: you done this? And does she does she have a voice?
Speaker 2: You know, I'm talking about the frustration in his voice,
Speaker 2: like does does she have an ability to say where
Speaker 2: the money is being spent at all? And maybe she
Speaker 2: feels the need to to kind of want to hide
Speaker 2: some of the spending. So I'm not at all discounting
Speaker 2: this poster's feelings and the point of frustration, right like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you just established that emergency fund and then to immediately
Speaker 2: get sort of not reset sound, you know, not reset
Speaker 2: back to zero. But even in the red is a
Speaker 2: difficult spot to be and it is it is. I was.
Speaker 1: I was actually truly impressed with the empathy the advice
Speaker 1: that a lot of how to money listeners offered in
Speaker 1: the Facebook group in answer to this question. I want
Speaker 1: to say, like, addiction is real, too, write we should
Speaker 1: highlight that. And I think we're living in a society
Speaker 1: with a lot more addiction than we ever have lived
Speaker 1: in before. And I don't think that's hyperbobole and I
Speaker 1: don't think that's just me discounting the past. I think
Speaker 1: it's just true and spending money triggers dopamine releases that
Speaker 1: are akin to a lot of other addictions that exist
Speaker 1: in our society, like gambling, pornography, stuff like that. So
Speaker 1: we're just seeing more and more people be succumbing to
Speaker 1: addiction because it's easier than ever. I was talking to
Speaker 1: a friend recently, Matt, and he was like, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't think nearly as many people were addicted to
Speaker 1: pornography back in the day, because guess what, it wasn't
Speaker 1: at your fingertips and free and like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: everywhere in front of you. And I was like, you're
Speaker 1: probably right, Like it just was harder to be addicted
Speaker 1: to something like that. Same with gambling.
Speaker 2: You walked into the gas station, you're probably like, like,
Speaker 2: I don't want anyone to see me, like as my
Speaker 2: car kind of tucked her on the back. Where like
Speaker 2: say anything with gambling, right, like going to an actual casino,
Speaker 2: there's something about Yeah, like you said, physically going somewhere
Speaker 2: as opposed to something being in your pocket and at
Speaker 2: your fingertips. Yes, one of the ways. Yeah, that technology
Speaker 2: has not served us as well. But I want to
Speaker 2: discount I guess the addiction reality that she might be
Speaker 2: going through and how she there's like a compulsive behavior
Speaker 2: in all likelihood that she's dealing with. Yeah, So I'm
Speaker 2: gonna I'm going to preface everything I'm about to say
Speaker 2: with the assumption that the wife is on board, right,
Speaker 2: because I was kind of coming at it from like, man,
Speaker 2: we're talking about this couple and the wife isn't present
Speaker 2: to be able to provide more information. But I'm going
Speaker 2: to assume that she's like, yes, I don't want to
Speaker 2: do this anymore. I'm like, this is awful, this is
Speaker 2: harming us financially. Let's work together to make this happen.
Speaker 1: Well, it sounds like they are agreeing on some things
Speaker 1: to her going to therapy, not using the credit card
Speaker 1: in the way it's been used to.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it sounds like you're right. I guess I
Speaker 2: thought that maybe the therapy was for something else as well.
Speaker 2: He didn't say it was specifically for the spending or
Speaker 2: the financial but yeah, let's assume that that is the
Speaker 2: case and she's proactively taking steps and that means she's
Speaker 2: totally on board, which me like in my mind, then
Speaker 2: it comes more down to like the mechanics, like how
Speaker 2: do we prevent you, how do we remove this temptation?
Speaker 2: How do we remove this addiction from you? And he
Speaker 2: talked about how it's these packages that are just continue
Speaker 2: to show up on the doorstep like day after day
Speaker 2: after day, and he's just like, wait a minute, how
Speaker 2: are you paying for all of this? And I think
Speaker 2: what that means is removing billing information, so like Amazon,
Speaker 2: like it's all saved and so they for me to
Speaker 2: search something and hit click to buy. Oh they like
Speaker 2: you said, like the technology, they've lubricated the process and
Speaker 2: there is no friction at all in doing that. But
Speaker 2: what that also means, I think is removing the saved
Speaker 2: credit card information on your browser, because the ability to
Speaker 2: just do the thumb print and all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: it's like or on your phone double click to pay.
Speaker 2: That means removing the credit card information from Safari or
Speaker 2: whatever browser you use on the computer. It means removing
Speaker 2: credit cards from the phone that way. You're not able
Speaker 2: to do it that way. And then the step be
Speaker 2: like there are still ways around it, right, like what
Speaker 2: if she opensf she opens like another credit card, and
Speaker 2: if she's willing, I think it also means locking down
Speaker 2: her credit. It means going into Equifax trans Union experience
Speaker 2: because if her not locked, I'm sorry, because that's the
Speaker 2: pay for service. You don't want to lock it. You
Speaker 2: want to freeze it. Make sure that junk's frozen, because
Speaker 2: if your credit is frozen, she cannot open, which is
Speaker 2: further law. It's totally free doesn't take very long at
Speaker 2: ought to do that, and that prevents her access to
Speaker 2: new credit as well. And again I prefaced all this
Speaker 2: with making sure that she's on board, because I think
Speaker 2: I could see a twisted scenario where it's just like no,
Speaker 2: man like that is so controlling, that is so like
Speaker 2: demeaning for you to do that to me, you know,
Speaker 2: like I could hear her saying, yeah, he doesn't let
Speaker 2: me do anything, like I can't buy anything, like I
Speaker 2: have to do everything through him. That's not a good situation.
Speaker 2: That's if that's the situation you're in, y'all need to
Speaker 2: go to counseling for sure, not just financial counseling, but
Speaker 2: like there are deeper there's deeper issues at hand. But
Speaker 2: if it's more about, oh, what steps do we need
Speaker 2: to take to make this harder or to make it
Speaker 2: make possibly like impossible for me to spend I think
Speaker 2: that that's a way to you know, those are some
Speaker 2: proactive steps to take, Like it makes me like, let's
Speaker 2: real quick, let's reverse the roles. Imagine this anonymous poster.
Speaker 2: What if he always got drunk and then drove somewhere.
Speaker 2: Like let's say that he's gotten multiple wise and has
Speaker 2: crashed the car two or three times since you've been married, Dude,
Speaker 2: what would you do? You would ask your wife to
Speaker 2: take the keys from you. It's just like, you know what,
Speaker 2: I can't drive anymore, Like I obviously cannot control myself
Speaker 2: whatever it is my impulse, But I don't always ride
Speaker 2: with a friend, always take uber yeah, take an uber
Speaker 2: ride your butt like there are so many other options.
Speaker 2: It's not it's riding your bike either. It's probably not
Speaker 2: gonna do yeah, probably not that. Yeah, it's not in fantalizing.
Speaker 2: It's just empowering you to make sure that you're taking
Speaker 2: the proper steps.
Speaker 1: That's all last thing I think, and it it kind
Speaker 1: of dovetails with what you're What you're saying right now,
Speaker 1: I think is to avoid shame in these conversations. It
Speaker 1: can be so hard because her reckless spending has hurt
Speaker 1: you emotionally, it's harmed your finances. It sets you back
Speaker 1: after you've achieved some of the goals that you want
Speaker 1: and it feels like you got to go after them
Speaker 1: from square one again. But the more you make her
Speaker 1: feel ashamed of her past mistakes and and you know
Speaker 1: things that that I think it's just going to help.
Speaker 1: The pattern is going to repeat, right, because shame is
Speaker 1: cyclical in that way. And so yeah, even though it's
Speaker 1: tough to feel like you're working together and on the
Speaker 1: same team because it feels like she's working against you,
Speaker 1: you guys are on the same team. So going to
Speaker 1: counseling together can be a helpful endeavor. I think for
Speaker 1: a lot of people in a relationship like this, it
Speaker 1: can feel like it's a that's her problem, she's got
Speaker 1: to get over, she's got to make a change for
Speaker 1: us to be okay. But working through it together with
Speaker 1: the help of a third party could save your marriage,
Speaker 1: and it could save your finances. So financial therapists exists,
Speaker 1: We've had them on the show before. They might be
Speaker 1: kind of this perfect intersection of the help you need
Speaker 1: right now. But I guess I just want to encourage you.
Speaker 1: It's going to take some humility, some love, and some
Speaker 1: compassion to avoid keeping scorn and shame on your wife
Speaker 1: for this. But I would say that's a really important
Speaker 1: part of the solution.
Speaker 2: All right, we avoided Do we avoid any potential landlines?
Speaker 2: Hopefully they don't screw it up. Hopefully knows. Something that's
Speaker 2: easier to talk about is the beer that you and
Speaker 2: I enjoyed during this episode, which was a Cloak and Dagger.
Speaker 2: This is a Vana Lagger by Incendiary Brewing Company, donated
Speaker 2: to the show by Brandon. What did you think of
Speaker 2: this beer, buddy, dude?
Speaker 1: This is a rare style that we almost never have
Speaker 1: the n I feel like maybe our friends at Halfway
Speaker 1: Crooks brew a good one of these, Oh yeah, I've
Speaker 1: had in quite some time.
Speaker 2: But it's more of that traditional European style. It's old school.
Speaker 2: This isn't some new whizbang beer style that's got cereal
Speaker 2: in it. No, this is a beer style. It's been
Speaker 2: around for hundreds and hundreds of beers. It's got the
Speaker 2: original cereal in it, like oats, yeah, malt exactly.
Speaker 1: No fruit loops in here, no, no, no, and no artificial
Speaker 1: dies in this and this beer this was to me.
Speaker 1: It was like nice, rich caramel vibes. It was super
Speaker 1: well balanced, and it just made me be like, man,
Speaker 1: why I do gravitate towards a certain a couple of
Speaker 1: certain styles of beers that I typically think of as
Speaker 1: my favorites. But there's something just nice and approachable and
Speaker 1: delightful about this beer.
Speaker 2: So refreshing, and not because it's like cold and wet
Speaker 2: and I'm thirsty, but just because it's not something that
Speaker 2: we've had a ton of, and it's such a like
Speaker 2: it's even in the name right, a Vienna lager. It's
Speaker 2: not like it's not like a Las Vegas lagger that
Speaker 2: like some brewer just like came up with. This is
Speaker 2: something that's been around for like thousands of years, right, thousands?
Speaker 2: It's maybe probably right. I don't know much about me.
Speaker 1: Well, I guess beer history that'd be in Austria and
Speaker 1: beer really kind of well, beer didn't start in Germany,
Speaker 1: but German. When was it that the Germans were at
Speaker 1: the heyday of their brewing?
Speaker 2: I don't know. We didn't know our fifteen hundreds. All
Speaker 2: I know is that there is it's probably been around
Speaker 2: it fifteen four hundred years. There is a beer recipe
Speaker 2: that is found that was found in Egypt on hieroglyphs,
Speaker 2: like on some sort of hero glyphs or hieroglyphs. I
Speaker 2: don't know how you said, hieroglyphs, hieroglyphics, hieroglyphics.
Speaker 1: Well that was it a dogfish head that kind of
Speaker 1: brought We had that beer like five years ago.
Speaker 2: I remember talking about it then. Was it good? I think?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 2: Okay, that was so.
Speaker 1: Long ago, I can't I can't remember, and we've had
Speaker 1: so many beers since then. It's true, all right, Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: this was a fun one. Glad we got to have
Speaker 1: this beer. Thank you to Brandon for donating it.
Speaker 2: Our way.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate it. And by the if you have
Speaker 1: a money question, please do send it our way. We'd
Speaker 1: love to take yours next week on the show Matt.
Speaker 1: Until next time, best friends out and.
Speaker 2: Best Friends out, there's still constructions to doing. This time, something
Speaker 2: to be done.