WEBVTT - Episode 4: You Knew We Were Coming 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:08.039 Freedom of speech in a real democracy is something which 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:10.440 the people impose on the government, and not the other 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:14.800 way round. That's what is wrong with Malta. It's a 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.599 society in which freedom of speech has had to be 0:00:17.680 --> 0:00:20.439 imposed on a public that rejects it because it doesn't 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:22.280 understand the imperatives that drive it. 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.920 For the Record, interview with George de Georgia, fifth December 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:46.000 twenty seventeen. 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:49.040 It's twenty four hours after the swat raid on the 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:52.239 potato shed on the Marsaki side and the arrest of 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:57.600 Daphne's three assassins, Chinese George de Georgio, his brother Alfred 0:00:57.640 --> 0:01:03.000 de Bin de Georgio and Vincent the kop Moscat. We're 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.640 in a small interrogation room, one table in the futures 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.640 and on your recorder picking up everywhord. It's time for 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:12.480 Chinese George, the man who triggered the car bomb that 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:14.800 killed Dephanie, to be asked some questions. 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.880 Chinese George looks like what he is, middle aged, thinning hair, 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:24.280 a squat, heavy set guy, maybe a little out of shape, 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.720 but still unmistakably an intimidating presence. 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:33.240 Think tony soprano, not so smart, not so tall, but 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:37.199 about as ruthless. It's not the first time he spent 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:39.400 a night in custody. This is a man who has 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:43.200 been in interrogation rooms like this many times before, and 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:45.080 one who has walked free before. 0:01:46.880 --> 0:01:50.920 Across the table from Chinese George is Inspector Keith Arnaud, 0:01:51.320 --> 0:01:55.040 the leader of the investigation into Daphnese murder, one of 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.320 Malter's most experienced homicide investigators. 0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:01.840 Also in the room is Inspector Zara, his colleague and. 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:06.720 The warning this will be a somewhat one sided conversation. 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:13.040 George, please, how old are you? I'll ask you again, 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:15.520 how old are you? George? 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:18.960 What you're hearing our actions? And a recreation based on 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:24.520 lead transcripts from an interrogation at Multipolice ARGQ. We translated 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:26.839 it into English. 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:28.920 And the unwritten code for Chinese George in this situation 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:34.280 is clear, don't talk to cops. 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.720 In that case. What is your father's name? George? 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:40.400 In fairness, Inspector are not does already have all this 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:44.799 information and much more. But this isn't about George's name 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:48.600 or his father. It's about who is really in control 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:54.600 in this interview room. 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.560 As we told you yesterday, George, and as is written 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:01.200 on the arrest warrant, we have arrested you on suspicion 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:05.240 of the murder of the journalist Dafnie Carbona Galizia. 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:08.000 Do you have anything to say to this? 0:03:11.560 --> 0:03:15.480 After the preliminaries, Inspector Arnau gets right to it. He 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:18.520 directly asks the first question that he doesn't yet know 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:19.280 the answer to. 0:03:20.400 --> 0:03:24.320 George, did you know that we were coming for you? 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.920 From my hard podcast topic Studios in Vespucci, I'm. 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:39.360 John Sweeney and I'm Manuel Delia. 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:45.040 And this is Crooks Everywhere, Episode four, you knew we 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:45.640 were coming. 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:56.240 In the interview room, Inspector Arnaut is feeling the heat 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:00.240 regardless of her conditioning. This is the biggest case of 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:04.480 his career and also maybe the riskiest. A lot of 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:07.440 people will be very unhappy if this case isn't solved, 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.280 not just in Malta but around the world, but some 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.880 very powerful people in Malta will probably also be unhappy 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.640 if it is solved. Both sides have a lot riding 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:18.159 on this. 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:23.520 And if there are mistakes made, everyone will be looking 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:24.559 for someone to apply. 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:31.400 Exhibit KK three is a photo of a reproduction of 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:36.200 the device that triggered the bomb an electronic circuit connected 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:40.080 to a SIM card, with the card remotely activated by 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.720 text message. We have proof that you were the person 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:46.920 who sent this SMS? 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.320 Is this true. 0:04:51.960 --> 0:04:55.039 And Inspector Arnold's favor is the mountain of forensic and 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:58.880 electronic data evidence, enabled by the assistance from the FBI 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.839 and other foreign forces, and supplemented with phone taps and 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:07.599 local CCDV at TODBT discoveries made after debate. 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.719 Immediately after the arrest, police divers search the bottom of 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.960 the harbor next to the keyside by the potato shed, 0:05:17.160 --> 0:05:20.719 and they found the seabed was littered with discarded phones, 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:25.599 including the phones used in Daphne's murder. Some of the 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:28.479 SIM cards still work and can have their call data 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:35.640 extracted from them. So what's the story behind the underwater 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.440 phone museum. It means that someone in the potato shed 0:05:39.600 --> 0:05:44.520 has a routine when a burnaphone contains incriminating information and 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:49.200 the job's done, it's thrown over the keyside into the water. 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.120 The problem is, this isn't the open sea, so instead 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:57.479 of being washed away forever, all these phones are waiting 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:01.279 in the mud five feet down in the place for 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:09.760 the authorities to come and find them. 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.000 It's a huge breakthrough for Inspact that are and the 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.160 FBI team helping him. 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.640 As you can see, George, we are dealing with facts 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:22.520 here in controvertible technical evidence. No one will ever be 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:26.640 able to say I must have been confused, I misremembered. 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:31.839 Oh this actually means something else. Uh no, So I 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.880 think you'd be wiser to tell me what you have 0:06:34.920 --> 0:06:35.440 to say. 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:41.679 About all this. He's right. The phone evidence, both location 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:47.119 data and recording of cause is damning. And it's also 0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:52.200 not the kind of evidence that witness intimidation can change. 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.880 That's one Inspector Arno is hinting at when he talks 0:06:55.920 --> 0:07:01.400 to people becoming confused or misremembering on the witness stand. 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:06.920 Witnesses often get forgetful in trials involving organized crime. 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:11.640 But this brings Inspector arna back to his earlier question, 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.440 the question that he still can't figure out how the 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.920 criminals seemed to be expecting him and his offices in 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.800 the SWAT raid. There's a whole range of clues that 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:23.440 suggests this. 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:26.880 What was the reason, for example, that we did not 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.040 find the keys to the room and. 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:31.760 Your mobile phones? Your mobile phone disappeared. 0:07:32.560 --> 0:07:35.080 It turns out that all of the killers had conveniently 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:38.040 just lost their mobile phones when the raid took place. 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.760 Why did you have the phone number of your girlfriend 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:44.240 written on your arm, Georgia, on your wrist? Is it 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:46.560 normal for anyone to write the number of his woman 0:07:46.640 --> 0:07:47.240 on his arm? 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:48.040 Isn't that right? 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.240 The mobile number of George's girlfriend is scrawled on his skin, 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:56.560 and pen Inspector Arno is right. It's a strange way 0:07:56.600 --> 0:08:00.080 to keep important phone numbers. But if you know you 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:02.680 are about to be raided by the police and you 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.320 are planning to throw away your cell phone, then it 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:06.160 makes more sense. 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:13.320 And then there is the dog that didn't bark. George 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.480 has a much which he usually keeps in the potato 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:18.640 shed to act as a guard dog. But on the 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:22.040 day of the swat rate, the guard dog with a wall. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.040 And what about the dog, the dog you usually take 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:26.040 to the potato shed. 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:28.920 What happened to it? Why wasn't that dog tied up 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:29.920 in her usual place? 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.760 Of course, this is another thing that makes more sense 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:37.000 if you are expecting a heavily armed police rate. If 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:38.800 you know as what rate is coming, you would want 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:40.680 to make sure that your loyal guard dog is locked 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:45.360 away somewhere safe in advance, out of harm's way. One 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:47.920 thing is pretty clear and what has most high profile 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:52.679 murder investigation. Somehow the criminals already know every move the 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:57.520 law has planned before it happens. And the question is how. 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.920 George known for a long time that we were coming. 0:09:11.480 --> 0:09:14.760 Even if George and the other killers appear cool under pressure, 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:18.000 the mood of the rest of the country is far 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:22.360 from calm at this time, both the Daphne's supporters and 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:23.079 her enemies. 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:27.640 Let's start with the supporters. The initial wave of protests 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.840 centered around the Great Siege Monument isn't dying away. In fact, 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:33.840 around the time of the swat rate, it is growing 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.400 stronger and proving to be an even bigger source of 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:40.480 annoyance to the government. And Daphne's role as a groundbreaking 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:44.559 female journalist in Mota is particularly important to many protesters. 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.720 Shortly after Daphanie I was killed, I was pulling the 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:54.600 news and the parliament resumed and the opposition wanted to 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:57.920 put on the table that they should have a debate about, 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:00.360 you know, the killing of Deafhnite. 0:10:01.160 --> 0:10:04.640 This is one of the protest leaders. French born Cleman s. Dujardin, 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:07.360 a software CEO who has lived in More since the 0:10:07.360 --> 0:10:12.000 early two thousands. Someone I know a bit. We've been 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:12.840 married seven years. 0:10:15.280 --> 0:10:20.079 And as I'm watching that going on, the government to 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:23.120 refuses to have that debt on that day, and I'm 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.440 sitting there and I'm expecting a position to walk out 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.679 of Parliament, you know, in protests, and the opposition stayed there. 0:10:29.160 --> 0:10:32.839 And I said no, I mean, if we don't even 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:34.880 have an opposition that is going to try to protect 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.280 this country and to step up and do something about it, 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:43.640 then we must do something about it. So I called 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:45.680 my friend Pi. I told Elisten pre and I'm going 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:48.800 to sleep in front of Castile Castill it's the office 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.160 of the Prime Minister. And I thought that that's where 0:10:51.160 --> 0:10:53.360 I'm going to sleep, and she told me, okay, she 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:58.200 told me, I'll join you. We wanted women to protest 0:10:58.240 --> 0:10:59.480 for the women that they killed. 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:07.199 Multiic politics are still incredibly male dominated. But the protests 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.520 and definitely's memory, weren't. 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.160 People understood that, you know, it needed to be led 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:13.880 by women. At first. 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:14.640 I don't know. 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:19.040 On Castile Square, maybe we may have had ten twelve tents, 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:28.800 so not many people but then people started coming. So 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.360 in the evening a lot of people came to the 0:11:31.360 --> 0:11:36.040 square and started bringing food, bringing drinks. Actually, on the 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:39.480 first evening defn Kamana gal It's as family centers, a 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:44.439 stock of pizzas with the famous lorel leaves that simbolized 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:47.800 definitely now. And that's how it started, you know. And 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.679 the next day more people came with their tents and slaps, 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:52.160 and that's how it. 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:59.600 Go This was the start of Malta's first female lad 0:11:59.760 --> 0:12:02.800 and corruption movement, known as Occupy Justice. 0:12:03.280 --> 0:12:07.199 So it had gone in two thousands of people joining 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:10.840 in the evening on Saturday evening, the square was packed 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.440 and you know, and people were not necessarily sad, you know, 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.240 it wasn't happy, but you know, the renion of people 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:19.120 that needed to be there all to get all together 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:23.800 and have a sense of belonging, of doing something may 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:24.400 be useful. 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:33.679 And Manuel, you were part of the wider protest movement. 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.480 Too, I was for many of us at the time. 0:12:36.679 --> 0:12:39.079 The protests were one of the very few positive things 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:41.199 to come out of the whole tragedy. It did feel 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.360 like a great mass of people who had been silent 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.880 were now speaking up, attending protests and vigils, and there 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:51.120 were many more of us than we ever dreamed. And 0:12:51.160 --> 0:12:53.480 so when news came of the swat trade and that 0:12:53.559 --> 0:12:56.959 the police had three of Daphnie's assassins and custody, there 0:12:57.000 --> 0:13:00.719 was both relief and anxiety, really because it seemed that 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:04.400 some kind of progress was being made, but anxiety because 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.000 many of us suspected even then that those three men 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:11.920 were just foot soldiers. Someone else must have given orders 0:13:11.960 --> 0:13:15.199 to Chinese George de Georgio, Alfred de Bin de Georgio 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:16.560 and Vincent de Kov. 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:28.360 So we're parked directly in front of a really sensationally 0:13:28.520 --> 0:13:33.080 baroque church. And what's extraordinary is this. This isn't a 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:37.000 very very big place, but the church is magnificent. 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:42.720 We're we're in Saint Nicholas Square in Sijiwi, which is 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.320 a village to the southwest of Valletta. 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.599 There's a couple of tourists doing a selfie on a 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:52.960 stick just close by, but we're not here for the tourists, 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.840 and we're not here for the beautiful baroque church. We're 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:59.480 here because there's a rather sweet looking bar on the 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:03.960 corner and it's got a nice red awning which is 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:08.440 flickering a little bit in the afternoon summer's breeze, as 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:13.840 an old wooden blackboard thing something scribbled on it. I 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.000 quite fancy a drink? Can we go for a drink? 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:16.160 Them? 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:16.560 And will? 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.480 I think I'll pass. The reason I wanted to show 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:24.280 it to you was not tourism. It's a bit of 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:28.120 a watering hole for all sorts of different people. But 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:32.280 a couple of French journalists, reporting about six months after 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.760 Daphne was killed, came here because they were pointed to 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.960 the place as a favorite of the the Georgio brothers. 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:45.640 They'd come drinking here, and they asked locals with hidden 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:50.240 microphones if they knew that the Georgia was They said 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:54.080 they did, and if they saw him drinking here, and 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.560 they said they did. And then they asked them if 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:01.280 they had notorious or famous friends. And the name that 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:05.160 came up was Chris Cardona, the economy minister. 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:13.640 So I find this really incredible that you've got a 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:20.160 cabinet minister of a country who drinks with two hit men. 0:15:22.240 --> 0:15:25.440 He would he would have explained that away by saying 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:29.040 he was a lawyer that used to practicing the criminal courts. 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:34.400 One person who was here speaking to the reporters distinctly 0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:41.400 remembered Chris Cardona and Alfred de Georgio having a sullen 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.800 conversation for about an hour in this bar, and then 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:46.280 they went out for a walk. 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.200 When was the date of that conversation, Roughly it. 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:53.479 Was a few days before the Georgias were arrested November 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:54.720 twenty seventeen. 0:15:55.840 --> 0:16:00.440 And when they're arrested, the evidence seems to be that 0:16:00.480 --> 0:16:03.880 they knew that they were about to be raided, because, 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.080 for example, one of them had written his girlfriend's number 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.520 on his on his on his hand, on his skin. 0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:12.320 Just the story at least suggests that the inside and 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:16.520 who tipped them off could have been Economics minister at 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:20.200 the time, Chris Cardona. What does Cardona himself say about this? 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:23.840 Chris Cardona denies any and all wrongdoing and says he's 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:25.600 never had anything to do with the killing of defne 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.680 Caarona Galicia or the plotting of it. But he did 0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:33.320 not try to explain away why he was drinking with 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:36.520 someone who a week later would be arrested and charged 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:47.400 with killing define Karona Galicia. We've heard about Chris cardoona before. 0:16:47.960 --> 0:16:50.080 He is the same government minister that was noticed by 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.000 Dafne's sons and widower visiting the law courts as a 0:16:53.040 --> 0:16:56.240 person of interest on the night of Dafnie's murder. He 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.400 chose not to respond to requests for an interview with 0:16:58.440 --> 0:16:59.680 this podcast. 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:04.760 In twenty seventeen. Chris Cardooner has repeatedly denied any involvement 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:09.280 in the murder of Daphne Caroina Galiticia. However, he has 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.359 admitted to knowing Alfred de Bean de Georgia through his 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:14.840 previous work as a criminal lawyer. 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:20.040 And Daphnie and mister Cardona also had a history. In fact, 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.760 Cardonah was one of the government politicians Daphne was most 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.240 famous for writing about, along with the Prime Minister Joseph 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:30.679 Moscat As Economy Minister. Cardona was a very senior minister 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.439 who was also a deputy leader of the ruling Labor Party, 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.879 so a key player, and Cardona has reason not to 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:38.359 be particularly the fond of Daphne. 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:45.520 January thirtieth, twenty seventeen, breaking Malta's Economy Minister Labour Party 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.080 deputy leader in German Brothel Tonight. 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.760 Issue Daphnie over one of her most famous stories Daphne's 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.240 report was posted while mister Cardona was still allegedly in 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:57.200 the brothel itself. 0:17:57.560 --> 0:18:01.200 Malta's Minister for the Economy, Chris card is currently at 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.360 a brothel in the German town of Velbert, near Disseldorff. 0:18:05.119 --> 0:18:07.400 Patrons pay eighty euros to get in through the door 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:10.919 at the FKK Akapulco are given food and drinks, but 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:13.359 must then pay for sex with the girls and women. 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:16.560 Definitely claimed to have a source inside the brothel feeding 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:20.560 her information and definitely always prided herself on providing the 0:18:20.640 --> 0:18:24.040 most embarrassing alleged details. 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:28.159 The FKK Acapulco includes a sauna, and at one point, 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.920 at around eight pm, the Economy Minister emerged naked from 0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:36.720 the shower, shouting alakesa Leima, God, damn, this water is cold. 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:41.120 At this time of night, no government spokesman or communications 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.000 aids are available to take questions on whether the Economy 0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.639 Minister is in Germany on official government business and if so, 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.760 whether his visit to a brothel will be passed off 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.400 as travel expenses along with his mini bar bill. 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.719 And from that moment on just the name of the brothel, 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.560 the Acapulco became a punchline in Malta. 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.600 There were people who were thought that it was hilarious, 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:09.879 you know, like a minister being spotted in a brothel 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:13.760 in Germany is absolutely scandalous. What the hell is a 0:19:13.760 --> 0:19:17.760 politician doing, like on government work abroad, but in a brothel. 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:21.400 Nicole Malak is a journalist at Molta. 0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:23.639 Today and obviously when that broke, it had such an 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:26.879 impact in the news tycho when it broke, so it 0:19:26.920 --> 0:19:29.160 was hard not to find out about it. Like even 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:32.280 if you weren't following local news at the time, you 0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:34.320 knew that this happened and that this broke, and that 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:36.600 definite Karwana Galicia reported it, but. 0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.240 Definitely had more to say. The very next day she 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:40.320 posted a further. 0:19:40.160 --> 0:19:44.600 Update, breaking brothelgate. The Economy Minister went to the same 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.240 brothel again today. It's just occurred to me that the 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.800 minister and his consultant wouldn't have gone back for sex 0:19:50.840 --> 0:19:54.320 this afternoon but for negotiation on making sure their backs 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.080 are covered. Given that the story had broken and the 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.480 minister had issued a press release of denial. 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:04.040 It was one of the moments when her writing moved 0:20:04.160 --> 0:20:07.719 beyond the niche of political blogging. In English to setting 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:11.440 the news agenda for the whole country, and as definitely mentioned, 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:14.920 Cardona fiercely denied the story from the start and has 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:19.600 ever since, but Defne, enjoying the fight, responded with more 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:21.400 posts and more details. 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.760 My source, who saw rather too much of our naked 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.080 government minister at the Velbert brothel, has now specified that 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.160 the tattoo of Cheguraara's face is on Chris Cardona's right 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:34.880 shoulder to the back and is done in blue ink. 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.320 I asked whether he also has, say nipple ring or 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:40.439 one of those doodars they snip into the end of 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:43.919 their uncircumcised Frankfurt sausage, and was told sadly not. 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:46.560 It was all the things that made Defnie and her 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:54.360 writing so popular and so different from mainstream Multese journalism, rude, chatty, scandalous, 0:20:54.400 --> 0:21:00.600 insulting and completely unafraid of authority. 0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.480 And then she began reporting on the reporting of her story. 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.879 The Minister for the Economy, who spent the evening of Monday, 0:21:06.920 --> 0:21:09.640 the thirtieth of January in a brothel in Velbert, Germany, 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.320 is currently lying through his teeth on Reno Bujea's TVM 0:21:13.400 --> 0:21:16.360 show des Set, except that his lies take a very 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:20.280 interesting form. Instead of lying about where he was, instead 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:22.840 of where he really was, he says it's all lies. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.439 Like other journalists. Boujaya tried to press him a little 0:21:26.440 --> 0:21:29.080 on where he was instead and got the stock answer, 0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.080 I'll prove it in court, and then in the next breath, 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:34.600 the same reply he has given others. I don't have 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:35.280 to prove anything. 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:35.920 She does. 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.840 I'm surprised nobody seems to have noticed what's going on here. 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:44.040 He's refusing to present his proof to the media in 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.159 the here and now and says he will wait for 0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:49.600 the court cases and prove it under oath, but then 0:21:49.640 --> 0:21:52.159 says he doesn't have to prove anything because the burden 0:21:52.200 --> 0:21:59.880 of proof in libel cases is on the other party. 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:02.560 And here is where this story took a turn that 0:22:02.600 --> 0:22:05.679 in most democracies would be unthinkable. 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:11.840 February eighth, twenty seventeen, the Minister for the Economy and 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:16.040 his policy officer have frozen my bank accounts. My statement 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:17.440 issued to all media. 0:22:21.040 --> 0:22:21.399 Today. 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:25.000 Both men took the exceptional measure of filing precautionary warrants 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:28.040 on my assets for the maximum libel damages that would 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:30.680 be payable to them should they win all four cases. 0:22:31.320 --> 0:22:35.119 Eleven eight hundred and sixty five euros times four equals 0:22:35.200 --> 0:22:39.160 forty seven, four hundred and sixty euros. My bank accounts 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:42.399 have consequently been frozen to this amount and will remain 0:22:42.440 --> 0:22:45.000 frozen to that amount until the case is concluded, many 0:22:45.080 --> 0:22:45.760 years from now. 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:52.760 A quick summary, A journalist writes a story about a politician. 0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:57.080 He sues her, but before the case can even begin, 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.320 all her personal bank guards stop working as part of 0:23:01.320 --> 0:23:02.320 the court proceedings. 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:07.040 It's an incredible show of power. Daphnie has been sued 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:10.760 for libel many times before, and defending those suits was 0:23:10.760 --> 0:23:14.480 in itself a huge financial burden. But freezing her bank 0:23:14.480 --> 0:23:19.640 accounts over a libel case that hadn't even begun. No 0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:23.560 one could remember that ever happening to a journalist before. 0:23:23.560 --> 0:23:24.080 In Malta. 0:23:25.560 --> 0:23:28.159 The implications for democracy and for the freedom of the 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:32.080 press are terrible. There is no initial process of scrutiny 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:35.040 for civil libel suits, and politicians can sue on the 0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:39.480 most frivolous basis. The system as it stands is ripe 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:42.560 for abuse by politicians who try to silence the journalists 0:23:42.600 --> 0:23:45.520 who expose them so that their wrongdoing is not exposed. 0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:48.520 It should be clear to anyone that the Minister for 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:52.399 the Economy and his EU Presidency policy officer wish to 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:55.920 harass me for what I have reported about them, obtain revenge, 0:23:56.280 --> 0:23:59.680 punish me, and beyond that also silence others who have 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:02.960 picked the story. The idea is to create what the 0:24:02.960 --> 0:24:06.080 European Court of Human Rights, in its judgments on freedom 0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:08.560 of the press matters, calls a chilling effect. 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:14.879 Daphne was murdered eight months later, and the reason she 0:24:14.960 --> 0:24:17.920 left her house that day and got into her car, 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:21.160 not knowing there was a bomb in it, was because 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:23.240 she needed to go to an appointment with her bank 0:24:23.600 --> 0:24:25.040 because her cards were frozen. 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:39.000 The libel law in Malta has since been changed so 0:24:39.040 --> 0:24:42.680 that this kind of financial throttling before a case is 0:24:42.720 --> 0:24:45.320 even started cannot happen again. 0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:50.119 But remarkably, even Daphne's murder didn't end the legal battles 0:24:50.119 --> 0:24:54.240 with Cardona. Under another quirk of Maltese law, libel cases 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:56.600 are passed on to your descendants in the event of 0:24:56.640 --> 0:24:57.360