1 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Freedom of speech in a real democracy is something which 2 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: the people impose on the government, and not the other 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: way round. That's what is wrong with Malta. It's a 4 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: society in which freedom of speech has had to be 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: imposed on a public that rejects it because it doesn't 6 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: understand the imperatives that drive it. 7 00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 2: For the Record, interview with George de Georgia, fifth December 8 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. 9 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 3: It's twenty four hours after the swat raid on the 10 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 3: potato shed on the Marsaki side and the arrest of 11 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 3: Daphne's three assassins, Chinese George de Georgio, his brother Alfred 12 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 3: de Bin de Georgio and Vincent the kop Moscat. We're 13 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 3: in a small interrogation room, one table in the futures 14 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 3: and on your recorder picking up everywhord. It's time for 15 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 3: Chinese George, the man who triggered the car bomb that 16 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 3: killed Dephanie, to be asked some questions. 17 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 4: Chinese George looks like what he is, middle aged, thinning hair, 18 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 4: a squat, heavy set guy, maybe a little out of shape, 19 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 4: but still unmistakably an intimidating presence. 20 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 3: Think tony soprano, not so smart, not so tall, but 21 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,199 Speaker 3: about as ruthless. It's not the first time he spent 22 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 3: a night in custody. This is a man who has 23 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 3: been in interrogation rooms like this many times before, and 24 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 3: one who has walked free before. 25 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 4: Across the table from Chinese George is Inspector Keith Arnaud, 26 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 4: the leader of the investigation into Daphnese murder, one of 27 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 4: Malter's most experienced homicide investigators. 28 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 3: Also in the room is Inspector Zara, his colleague and. 29 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:06,720 Speaker 4: The warning this will be a somewhat one sided conversation. 30 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 5: George, please, how old are you? I'll ask you again, 31 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 5: how old are you? George? 32 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 4: What you're hearing our actions? And a recreation based on 33 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 4: lead transcripts from an interrogation at Multipolice ARGQ. We translated 34 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,839 Speaker 4: it into English. 35 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 3: And the unwritten code for Chinese George in this situation 36 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 3: is clear, don't talk to cops. 37 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 5: In that case. What is your father's name? George? 38 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 3: In fairness, Inspector are not does already have all this 39 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 3: information and much more. But this isn't about George's name 40 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 3: or his father. It's about who is really in control 41 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 3: in this interview room. 42 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: As we told you yesterday, George, and as is written 43 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 2: on the arrest warrant, we have arrested you on suspicion 44 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 2: of the murder of the journalist Dafnie Carbona Galizia. 45 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 5: Do you have anything to say to this? 46 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 4: After the preliminaries, Inspector Arnau gets right to it. He 47 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 4: directly asks the first question that he doesn't yet know 48 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 4: the answer to. 49 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 2: George, did you know that we were coming for you? 50 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 4: From my hard podcast topic Studios in Vespucci, I'm. 51 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 3: John Sweeney and I'm Manuel Delia. 52 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 4: And this is Crooks Everywhere, Episode four, you knew we 53 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:45,640 Speaker 4: were coming. 54 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 3: In the interview room, Inspector Arnaut is feeling the heat 55 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 3: regardless of her conditioning. This is the biggest case of 56 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 3: his career and also maybe the riskiest. A lot of 57 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 3: people will be very unhappy if this case isn't solved, 58 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 3: not just in Malta but around the world, but some 59 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 3: very powerful people in Malta will probably also be unhappy 60 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 3: if it is solved. Both sides have a lot riding 61 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 3: on this. 62 00:04:18,520 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 4: And if there are mistakes made, everyone will be looking 63 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:24,559 Speaker 4: for someone to apply. 64 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: Exhibit KK three is a photo of a reproduction of 65 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 2: the device that triggered the bomb an electronic circuit connected 66 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 2: to a SIM card, with the card remotely activated by 67 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 2: text message. We have proof that you were the person 68 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,920 Speaker 2: who sent this SMS? 69 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 5: Is this true. 70 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 3: And Inspector Arnold's favor is the mountain of forensic and 71 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: electronic data evidence, enabled by the assistance from the FBI 72 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 3: and other foreign forces, and supplemented with phone taps and 73 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:07,599 Speaker 3: local CCDV at TODBT discoveries made after debate. 74 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 4: Immediately after the arrest, police divers search the bottom of 75 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 4: the harbor next to the keyside by the potato shed, 76 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 4: and they found the seabed was littered with discarded phones, 77 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 4: including the phones used in Daphne's murder. Some of the 78 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 4: SIM cards still work and can have their call data 79 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 4: extracted from them. So what's the story behind the underwater 80 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 4: phone museum. It means that someone in the potato shed 81 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 4: has a routine when a burnaphone contains incriminating information and 82 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 4: the job's done, it's thrown over the keyside into the water. 83 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 4: The problem is, this isn't the open sea, so instead 84 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 4: of being washed away forever, all these phones are waiting 85 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 4: in the mud five feet down in the place for 86 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 4: the authorities to come and find them. 87 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 3: It's a huge breakthrough for Inspact that are and the 88 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 3: FBI team helping him. 89 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: As you can see, George, we are dealing with facts 90 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: here in controvertible technical evidence. No one will ever be 91 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: able to say I must have been confused, I misremembered. 92 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:31,839 Speaker 2: Oh this actually means something else. Uh no, So I 93 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 2: think you'd be wiser to tell me what you have 94 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: to say. 95 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:41,679 Speaker 4: About all this. He's right. The phone evidence, both location 96 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:47,119 Speaker 4: data and recording of cause is damning. And it's also 97 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 4: not the kind of evidence that witness intimidation can change. 98 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 4: That's one Inspector Arno is hinting at when he talks 99 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 4: to people becoming confused or misremembering on the witness stand. 100 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 3: Witnesses often get forgetful in trials involving organized crime. 101 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 4: But this brings Inspector arna back to his earlier question, 102 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 4: the question that he still can't figure out how the 103 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 4: criminals seemed to be expecting him and his offices in 104 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 4: the SWAT raid. There's a whole range of clues that 105 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 4: suggests this. 106 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 2: What was the reason, for example, that we did not 107 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 2: find the keys to the room and. 108 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 5: Your mobile phones? Your mobile phone disappeared. 109 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: It turns out that all of the killers had conveniently 110 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 3: just lost their mobile phones when the raid took place. 111 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 2: Why did you have the phone number of your girlfriend 112 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 2: written on your arm, Georgia, on your wrist? Is it 113 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,560 Speaker 2: normal for anyone to write the number of his woman 114 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 2: on his arm? 115 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 5: Isn't that right? 116 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 3: The mobile number of George's girlfriend is scrawled on his skin, 117 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 3: and pen Inspector Arno is right. It's a strange way 118 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,080 Speaker 3: to keep important phone numbers. But if you know you 119 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 3: are about to be raided by the police and you 120 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 3: are planning to throw away your cell phone, then it 121 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 3: makes more sense. 122 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 4: And then there is the dog that didn't bark. George 123 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 4: has a much which he usually keeps in the potato 124 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 4: shed to act as a guard dog. But on the 125 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 4: day of the swat rate, the guard dog with a wall. 126 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 2: And what about the dog, the dog you usually take 127 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 2: to the potato shed. 128 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 5: What happened to it? Why wasn't that dog tied up 129 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 5: in her usual place? 130 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 3: Of course, this is another thing that makes more sense 131 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 3: if you are expecting a heavily armed police rate. If 132 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 3: you know as what rate is coming, you would want 133 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,680 Speaker 3: to make sure that your loyal guard dog is locked 134 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 3: away somewhere safe in advance, out of harm's way. One 135 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:47,920 Speaker 3: thing is pretty clear and what has most high profile 136 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,679 Speaker 3: murder investigation. Somehow the criminals already know every move the 137 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 3: law has planned before it happens. And the question is how. 138 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 5: George known for a long time that we were coming. 139 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 4: Even if George and the other killers appear cool under pressure, 140 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 4: the mood of the rest of the country is far 141 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 4: from calm at this time, both the Daphne's supporters and 142 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:23,079 Speaker 4: her enemies. 143 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 3: Let's start with the supporters. The initial wave of protests 144 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 3: centered around the Great Siege Monument isn't dying away. In fact, 145 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 3: around the time of the swat rate, it is growing 146 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 3: stronger and proving to be an even bigger source of 147 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 3: annoyance to the government. And Daphne's role as a groundbreaking 148 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 3: female journalist in Mota is particularly important to many protesters. 149 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 6: Shortly after Daphanie I was killed, I was pulling the 150 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 6: news and the parliament resumed and the opposition wanted to 151 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 6: put on the table that they should have a debate about, 152 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 6: you know, the killing of Deafhnite. 153 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 3: This is one of the protest leaders. French born Cleman s. Dujardin, 154 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,360 Speaker 3: a software CEO who has lived in More since the 155 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 3: early two thousands. Someone I know a bit. We've been 156 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 3: married seven years. 157 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:20,079 Speaker 6: And as I'm watching that going on, the government to 158 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 6: refuses to have that debt on that day, and I'm 159 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 6: sitting there and I'm expecting a position to walk out 160 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 6: of Parliament, you know, in protests, and the opposition stayed there. 161 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 6: And I said no, I mean, if we don't even 162 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 6: have an opposition that is going to try to protect 163 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 6: this country and to step up and do something about it, 164 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 6: then we must do something about it. So I called 165 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 6: my friend Pi. I told Elisten pre and I'm going 166 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 6: to sleep in front of Castile Castill it's the office 167 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 6: of the Prime Minister. And I thought that that's where 168 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,360 Speaker 6: I'm going to sleep, and she told me, okay, she 169 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:58,200 Speaker 6: told me, I'll join you. We wanted women to protest 170 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 6: for the women that they killed. 171 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 3: Multiic politics are still incredibly male dominated. But the protests 172 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 3: and definitely's memory, weren't. 173 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 6: People understood that, you know, it needed to be led 174 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:13,880 Speaker 6: by women. At first. 175 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:14,640 Speaker 3: I don't know. 176 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 6: On Castile Square, maybe we may have had ten twelve tents, 177 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 6: so not many people but then people started coming. So 178 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 6: in the evening a lot of people came to the 179 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 6: square and started bringing food, bringing drinks. Actually, on the 180 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 6: first evening defn Kamana gal It's as family centers, a 181 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:44,439 Speaker 6: stock of pizzas with the famous lorel leaves that simbolized 182 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 6: definitely now. And that's how it started, you know. And 183 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 6: the next day more people came with their tents and slaps, 184 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 6: and that's how it. 185 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 7: Go This was the start of Malta's first female lad 186 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 7: and corruption movement, known as Occupy Justice. 187 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,199 Speaker 6: So it had gone in two thousands of people joining 188 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 6: in the evening on Saturday evening, the square was packed 189 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,440 Speaker 6: and you know, and people were not necessarily sad, you know, 190 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 6: it wasn't happy, but you know, the renion of people 191 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 6: that needed to be there all to get all together 192 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 6: and have a sense of belonging, of doing something may 193 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 6: be useful. 194 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 4: And Manuel, you were part of the wider protest movement. 195 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 3: Too, I was for many of us at the time. 196 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 3: The protests were one of the very few positive things 197 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:41,199 Speaker 3: to come out of the whole tragedy. It did feel 198 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 3: like a great mass of people who had been silent 199 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 3: were now speaking up, attending protests and vigils, and there 200 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 3: were many more of us than we ever dreamed. And 201 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 3: so when news came of the swat trade and that 202 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 3: the police had three of Daphnie's assassins and custody, there 203 00:12:57,000 --> 00:13:00,719 Speaker 3: was both relief and anxiety, really because it seemed that 204 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 3: some kind of progress was being made, but anxiety because 205 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 3: many of us suspected even then that those three men 206 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 3: were just foot soldiers. Someone else must have given orders 207 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,199 Speaker 3: to Chinese George de Georgio, Alfred de Bin de Georgio 208 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 3: and Vincent de Kov. 209 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 4: So we're parked directly in front of a really sensationally 210 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 4: baroque church. And what's extraordinary is this. This isn't a 211 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 4: very very big place, but the church is magnificent. 212 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 3: We're we're in Saint Nicholas Square in Sijiwi, which is 213 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 3: a village to the southwest of Valletta. 214 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,599 Speaker 4: There's a couple of tourists doing a selfie on a 215 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 4: stick just close by, but we're not here for the tourists, 216 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,840 Speaker 4: and we're not here for the beautiful baroque church. We're 217 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 4: here because there's a rather sweet looking bar on the 218 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 4: corner and it's got a nice red awning which is 219 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,440 Speaker 4: flickering a little bit in the afternoon summer's breeze, as 220 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 4: an old wooden blackboard thing something scribbled on it. I 221 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 4: quite fancy a drink? Can we go for a drink? 222 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 5: Them? 223 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 4: And will? 224 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 3: I think I'll pass. The reason I wanted to show 225 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 3: it to you was not tourism. It's a bit of 226 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 3: a watering hole for all sorts of different people. But 227 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,280 Speaker 3: a couple of French journalists, reporting about six months after 228 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 3: Daphne was killed, came here because they were pointed to 229 00:14:36,440 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 3: the place as a favorite of the the Georgio brothers. 230 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 3: They'd come drinking here, and they asked locals with hidden 231 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 3: microphones if they knew that the Georgia was They said 232 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 3: they did, and if they saw him drinking here, and 233 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 3: they said they did. And then they asked them if 234 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 3: they had notorious or famous friends. And the name that 235 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 3: came up was Chris Cardona, the economy minister. 236 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 4: So I find this really incredible that you've got a 237 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 4: cabinet minister of a country who drinks with two hit men. 238 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:25,440 Speaker 3: He would he would have explained that away by saying 239 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 3: he was a lawyer that used to practicing the criminal courts. 240 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 3: One person who was here speaking to the reporters distinctly 241 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 3: remembered Chris Cardona and Alfred de Georgio having a sullen 242 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 3: conversation for about an hour in this bar, and then 243 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:46,280 Speaker 3: they went out for a walk. 244 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 4: When was the date of that conversation, Roughly it. 245 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,479 Speaker 3: Was a few days before the Georgias were arrested November 246 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 3: twenty seventeen. 247 00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 4: And when they're arrested, the evidence seems to be that 248 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 4: they knew that they were about to be raided, because, 249 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 4: for example, one of them had written his girlfriend's number 250 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 4: on his on his on his hand, on his skin. 251 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 4: Just the story at least suggests that the inside and 252 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 4: who tipped them off could have been Economics minister at 253 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 4: the time, Chris Cardona. What does Cardona himself say about this? 254 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 3: Chris Cardona denies any and all wrongdoing and says he's 255 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 3: never had anything to do with the killing of defne 256 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 3: Caarona Galicia or the plotting of it. But he did 257 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 3: not try to explain away why he was drinking with 258 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 3: someone who a week later would be arrested and charged 259 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 3: with killing define Karona Galicia. We've heard about Chris cardoona before. 260 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 3: He is the same government minister that was noticed by 261 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 3: Dafne's sons and widower visiting the law courts as a 262 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:56,240 Speaker 3: person of interest on the night of Dafnie's murder. He 263 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 3: chose not to respond to requests for an interview with 264 00:16:58,440 --> 00:16:59,680 Speaker 3: this podcast. 265 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 4: In twenty seventeen. Chris Cardooner has repeatedly denied any involvement 266 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 4: in the murder of Daphne Caroina Galiticia. However, he has 267 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,359 Speaker 4: admitted to knowing Alfred de Bean de Georgia through his 268 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 4: previous work as a criminal lawyer. 269 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 3: And Daphnie and mister Cardona also had a history. In fact, 270 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 3: Cardonah was one of the government politicians Daphne was most 271 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 3: famous for writing about, along with the Prime Minister Joseph 272 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 3: Moscat As Economy Minister. Cardona was a very senior minister 273 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:33,439 Speaker 3: who was also a deputy leader of the ruling Labor Party, 274 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,879 Speaker 3: so a key player, and Cardona has reason not to 275 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 3: be particularly the fond of Daphne. 276 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: January thirtieth, twenty seventeen, breaking Malta's Economy Minister Labour Party 277 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: deputy leader in German Brothel Tonight. 278 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 3: Issue Daphnie over one of her most famous stories Daphne's 279 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 3: report was posted while mister Cardona was still allegedly in 280 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 3: the brothel itself. 281 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: Malta's Minister for the Economy, Chris card is currently at 282 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,360 Speaker 1: a brothel in the German town of Velbert, near Disseldorff. 283 00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: Patrons pay eighty euros to get in through the door 284 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,919 Speaker 1: at the FKK Akapulco are given food and drinks, but 285 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: must then pay for sex with the girls and women. 286 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 3: Definitely claimed to have a source inside the brothel feeding 287 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 3: her information and definitely always prided herself on providing the 288 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 3: most embarrassing alleged details. 289 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: The FKK Acapulco includes a sauna, and at one point, 290 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,920 Speaker 1: at around eight pm, the Economy Minister emerged naked from 291 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: the shower, shouting alakesa Leima, God, damn, this water is cold. 292 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:41,120 Speaker 1: At this time of night, no government spokesman or communications 293 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,000 Speaker 1: aids are available to take questions on whether the Economy 294 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: Minister is in Germany on official government business and if so, 295 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: whether his visit to a brothel will be passed off 296 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 1: as travel expenses along with his mini bar bill. 297 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,719 Speaker 3: And from that moment on just the name of the brothel, 298 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 3: the Acapulco became a punchline in Malta. 299 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,600 Speaker 8: There were people who were thought that it was hilarious, 300 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 8: you know, like a minister being spotted in a brothel 301 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 8: in Germany is absolutely scandalous. What the hell is a 302 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 8: politician doing, like on government work abroad, but in a brothel. 303 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 3: Nicole Malak is a journalist at Molta. 304 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 8: Today and obviously when that broke, it had such an 305 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 8: impact in the news tycho when it broke, so it 306 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 8: was hard not to find out about it. Like even 307 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 8: if you weren't following local news at the time, you 308 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 8: knew that this happened and that this broke, and that 309 00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 8: definite Karwana Galicia reported it, but. 310 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 3: Definitely had more to say. The very next day she 311 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 3: posted a further. 312 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: Update, breaking brothelgate. The Economy Minister went to the same 313 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 1: brothel again today. It's just occurred to me that the 314 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,800 Speaker 1: minister and his consultant wouldn't have gone back for sex 315 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: this afternoon but for negotiation on making sure their backs 316 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: are covered. Given that the story had broken and the 317 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: minister had issued a press release of denial. 318 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 3: It was one of the moments when her writing moved 319 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,719 Speaker 3: beyond the niche of political blogging. In English to setting 320 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:11,440 Speaker 3: the news agenda for the whole country, and as definitely mentioned, 321 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 3: Cardona fiercely denied the story from the start and has 322 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 3: ever since, but Defne, enjoying the fight, responded with more 323 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 3: posts and more details. 324 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 1: My source, who saw rather too much of our naked 325 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: government minister at the Velbert brothel, has now specified that 326 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 1: the tattoo of Cheguraara's face is on Chris Cardona's right 327 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,880 Speaker 1: shoulder to the back and is done in blue ink. 328 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: I asked whether he also has, say nipple ring or 329 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,439 Speaker 1: one of those doodars they snip into the end of 330 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,919 Speaker 1: their uncircumcised Frankfurt sausage, and was told sadly not. 331 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 3: It was all the things that made Defnie and her 332 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 3: writing so popular and so different from mainstream Multese journalism, rude, chatty, scandalous, 333 00:20:54,400 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 3: insulting and completely unafraid of authority. 334 00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 4: And then she began reporting on the reporting of her story. 335 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: The Minister for the Economy, who spent the evening of Monday, 336 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: the thirtieth of January in a brothel in Velbert, Germany, 337 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: is currently lying through his teeth on Reno Bujea's TVM 338 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: show des Set, except that his lies take a very 339 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: interesting form. Instead of lying about where he was, instead 340 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: of where he really was, he says it's all lies. 341 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,439 Speaker 1: Like other journalists. Boujaya tried to press him a little 342 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: on where he was instead and got the stock answer, 343 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: I'll prove it in court, and then in the next breath, 344 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,600 Speaker 1: the same reply he has given others. I don't have 345 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: to prove anything. 346 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 3: She does. 347 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: I'm surprised nobody seems to have noticed what's going on here. 348 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: He's refusing to present his proof to the media in 349 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: the here and now and says he will wait for 350 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: the court cases and prove it under oath, but then 351 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 1: says he doesn't have to prove anything because the burden 352 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 1: of proof in libel cases is on the other party. 353 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 4: And here is where this story took a turn that 354 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,679 Speaker 4: in most democracies would be unthinkable. 355 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: February eighth, twenty seventeen, the Minister for the Economy and 356 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 1: his policy officer have frozen my bank accounts. My statement 357 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: issued to all media. 358 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 7: Today. 359 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:25,000 Speaker 1: Both men took the exceptional measure of filing precautionary warrants 360 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: on my assets for the maximum libel damages that would 361 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: be payable to them should they win all four cases. 362 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: Eleven eight hundred and sixty five euros times four equals 363 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 1: forty seven, four hundred and sixty euros. My bank accounts 364 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,399 Speaker 1: have consequently been frozen to this amount and will remain 365 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: frozen to that amount until the case is concluded, many 366 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: years from now. 367 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 3: A quick summary, A journalist writes a story about a politician. 368 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 3: He sues her, but before the case can even begin, 369 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 3: all her personal bank guards stop working as part of 370 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 3: the court proceedings. 371 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 4: It's an incredible show of power. Daphnie has been sued 372 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 4: for libel many times before, and defending those suits was 373 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 4: in itself a huge financial burden. But freezing her bank 374 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 4: accounts over a libel case that hadn't even begun. No 375 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 4: one could remember that ever happening to a journalist before. 376 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 3: In Malta. 377 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:28,159 Speaker 1: The implications for democracy and for the freedom of the 378 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: press are terrible. There is no initial process of scrutiny 379 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: for civil libel suits, and politicians can sue on the 380 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: most frivolous basis. The system as it stands is ripe 381 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: for abuse by politicians who try to silence the journalists 382 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: who expose them so that their wrongdoing is not exposed. 383 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: It should be clear to anyone that the Minister for 384 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: the Economy and his EU Presidency policy officer wish to 385 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: harass me for what I have reported about them, obtain revenge, 386 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: punish me, and beyond that also silence others who have 387 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: picked the story. The idea is to create what the 388 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 1: European Court of Human Rights, in its judgments on freedom 389 00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: of the press matters, calls a chilling effect. 390 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 3: Daphne was murdered eight months later, and the reason she 391 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 3: left her house that day and got into her car, 392 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 3: not knowing there was a bomb in it, was because 393 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 3: she needed to go to an appointment with her bank 394 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 3: because her cards were frozen. 395 00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 4: The libel law in Malta has since been changed so 396 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 4: that this kind of financial throttling before a case is 397 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 4: even started cannot happen again. 398 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 3: But remarkably, even Daphne's murder didn't end the legal battles 399 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:54,240 Speaker 3: with Cardona. Under another quirk of Maltese law, libel cases 400 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 3: are passed on to your descendants in the event of 401 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:57,360 Speaker 3: your death. 402 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 4: So like a family heirloom, the have been inherited by 403 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 4: those she left behind. 404 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 3: Daphne's grief stricken sons and with over found themselves appearing 405 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 3: in court and spending money to defend themselves from a 406 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 3: court action over blog posts that they had no part 407 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:17,119 Speaker 3: in writing. It was just one of over forty cases 408 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 3: that were outstanding against Deafhanie at the time of her death, 409 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 3: and which then were passed on to her family. 410 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 4: Again, none of this is something that would happen in 411 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 4: most other European democracies. 412 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,960 Speaker 3: Daphne's family wanted to fight the case, believing that phone 413 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 3: data would prove her version of events. After the court 414 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 3: ordered the phone company to preserve the data showing where 415 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,919 Speaker 3: mister Cardona's phone had been that faithful night, he failed 416 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 3: to show up in court every time he was due 417 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,400 Speaker 3: to testify. Eventually the case was dropped. 418 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 4: So to summarize, Jaffney accused the minister visiting a brothel 419 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 4: while on government business. The minister sued her for libel, 420 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 4: freezing her bank accounts before the case had come to court. Then, 421 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:12,440 Speaker 4: even after her murder, the case continued, with Japhane's sons 422 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 4: defending their mother's journalism and the minister refusing to appear 423 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 4: in court or present evidence to support his version of events, 424 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 4: even though he was bringing the case. 425 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 3: Welcome to Malta. Cardona has claimed that he never dropped 426 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 3: the charges and that it was Daphane's family who moved 427 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 3: to have the charges dropped, And so a few months 428 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 3: after Daphane's death, that's where the ballad of Daphne and 429 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 3: Chris Cardona would have rested. Cardona certainly had a bitter 430 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 3: dispute with her, but their conflict seemed to have been 431 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,879 Speaker 3: limited to the pages of her blog and the court system. 432 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 4: But new bits of the story kept on coming out, 433 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 4: which is how we get back to the sleepy village 434 00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 4: bar by the baroque church in Sijiwi and the question 435 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:05,479 Speaker 4: of how Daphine's assassins somehow knew exactly when the police 436 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 4: were gonna come for them, And this is where even 437 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 4: the simplest facts become. 438 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 3: Hazy again, Welcome to Malta. So a team of investigative 439 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,120 Speaker 3: journalists from the French media Franz De and Radio Franz 440 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 3: had heard rumors that Cardona had some kind of connection 441 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:33,000 Speaker 3: to at least one of the assassins, Alfred Deben the Georgio. 442 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 3: To test that out, they visited this Egeui bar undercover 443 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 3: and used hidden cameras to speak to regular drinkers there. 444 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,959 Speaker 3: You can still watch the undercover footage online. Cardona at 445 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 3: first denied it all. He did quote not recall having 446 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 3: any discussions with any of the killers, and slightly denied 447 00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:53,480 Speaker 3: meeting them at the bar, but he conceded that he 448 00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 3: was a regular at the bar, that it was possible 449 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 3: that the Georgio brothers might have been in attendance. 450 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 4: Too, and that wasn't all. Gradually, more pieces of evidence 451 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,920 Speaker 4: began to emerge, suggesting interactions between the killers and Chris Cardona. 452 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 4: For example, several eyewitnesses told the media that Alfred the 453 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 4: Bean and Chris Cardona had both been guessed at the 454 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:21,640 Speaker 4: same bachelor party five months before Daphne's death. Cardona said 455 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 4: he couldn't remember seeing Alfred the Bean at the party 456 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,200 Speaker 4: and had left after ten minutes anyway. He admitted that 457 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 4: he knew one of them, the Georgia brothers, from his 458 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 4: work as a criminal lawyer, but was not friends with 459 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,520 Speaker 4: him in the sense that they would visit each other's houses. 460 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 3: In a statement in twenty eighteen, Cardona responded in the 461 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 3: Times of Malta to the suggestion that he might be 462 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 3: involved in Daphne's murder. This extract from the statement is 463 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 3: read by an actor. 464 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 9: I understand that the victims' families and indeed the public 465 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,560 Speaker 9: swant for answers, but attempting at all costs to make 466 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 9: the public believe that there was any type of involvement 467 00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 9: from my end, is purely absurd and unjust and will 468 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 9: definitely not help investigations, nor will it help to lead 469 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 9: to further answers, but will merely fuel the sensationalism surrounding 470 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 9: such a barbaric act, to the detriment of the public 471 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 9: and the investigation itself. 472 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 3: Which takes us back to the central question for Inspector 473 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 3: Arnaut in the weeks after the Swat raid. How did 474 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 3: Dafnese killers know that the police were going to raid them? 475 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 3: Who warned them? And why Chris Cardona potentially had a 476 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 3: motive because of what definitely had written about him the 477 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,040 Speaker 3: minister in the brothel story, and he could have warned 478 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:41,560 Speaker 3: the killers. He knew at least one of the assassins 479 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 3: and they were seen together by a member of the 480 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 3: public with him the day before the raid. And as 481 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 3: a senior government minister in this particular Maltese government, it 482 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 3: is not far fetch to imagine he could have got 483 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 3: access to confidential information about the investigation, but fairm evidence 484 00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 3: of any actual involvement is me. 485 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 4: At this point, the investigation seems to have hit a 486 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 4: brick wall. The contract killers are in jail but maintaining 487 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 4: complete silence and clear leads as to who hired them, 488 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 4: who wanted Dafney dead is still missing, and Chris Cardener 489 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 4: is never charged with involvement in the murder. But there 490 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 4: is one other person involved with this story, however, a 491 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 4: man who becomes very important from this point on. 492 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 3: A rich and powerful man who will go on to 493 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:39,280 Speaker 3: be accused of ordering Daphnese murder, although the assassins were 494 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,000 Speaker 3: not hired by him directly. 495 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 4: After all, dealing directly with contract killers is a difficult business. 496 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 3: Instead, this powerful man finds someone who can work on 497 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 3: his behalf to organize the killing, someone who can connect 498 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 3: the criminal underworld with the world of Multa's economic and 499 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 3: political elite, a go bit I mean a connection between 500 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 3: the highest and lowest sections of society. That man's name 501 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 3: is Melvin Toma, the Middleman, and so far no one 502 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,959 Speaker 3: suspects his involvement in this crime at all. In December 503 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, around the time that Chinese George is being 504 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:27,960 Speaker 3: interrogated at police headquarters in Valletta. Melvin the Middleman Toma 505 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,160 Speaker 3: is here outside Malta's Hilton Hotel behind the wheel of 506 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 3: a taxi. His thin, dark haired lay thirties with a 507 00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 3: scar across his forehead. Even with that scar, he's bland looking, 508 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 3: capable of fading into the background. As a taxi driver, 509 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 3: he has an unusual and extremely desirable gig permission to 510 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 3: tout folfairs outside the Hilton in the exclusive Port Tomaso 511 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 3: resort to the north of Valletta. A good earner with 512 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 3: good tips, but he's also a known face in the 513 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 3: criminal community, successful in the world of illegal gambling, horses 514 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 3: and black market lotteries. 515 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 4: But now, as his engine ticks over outside the Hilton, 516 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 4: he's questioning his life choices and the aftermath of the 517 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,280 Speaker 4: arrest of Chinese George. Alfred the Bean and Vincent Leacough 518 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,240 Speaker 4: is beginning to feel exposed, and he's right to feel 519 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 4: that way. He knows that he knows too much, and 520 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 4: this murder has now proved to be bigger news than 521 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 4: he or anyone else involved. Imagioned as he waits for 522 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 4: the next rich foreign tourist to wave him over for 523 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:46,840 Speaker 4: another fair Melvin, the middle man begins to sweat. Being 524 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 4: in the middle can be a dangerous place to be. 525 00:32:52,840 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 3: That's next time. Crooks Everywhere is a production of iHeart Podcasts, 526 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 3: Topic Studios and Vespucci. It's reported and hosted by me 527 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 3: Manuel Delia and John Sweeney. The singer producer is Leo Hornack, 528 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 3: The producer is Maddi Hickish. Krish Denes Kumar is the 529 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 3: assistant producer. The story editors are Emma Federill, Matt Willis 530 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 3: and Philippa Geering. The managing producers are Thomas Curry and 531 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 3: Rachel Byrne. The voice of Dafnie Carmana Galizia is played 532 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 3: by Ciena Miller, acting direction by Christopher Houghten. Multese voices 533 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 3: by Mikhael basma Jan and Pierre Staffrach. The executive producers 534 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:45,560 Speaker 3: are Johnny Galvin and Daniel Turken at Vespucci, Christi Gressman 535 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 3: at Topic Studios, Katina Norvel and Nikki Etoor at iHeart 536 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,959 Speaker 3: Podcasts and Ciena Miller. Marketing lead is David Wessemann. Audio 537 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 3: recording by Tom Berry at Wardoor Studios. Audio mix and 538 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,960 Speaker 3: sound designed by Joel Cox. Special thanks to Andrew Botchcardona, 539 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 3: Alessandra di Crespo, Eddie Isles, and Andrew Carvana, Galicia