WEBVTT - Who Told Us We Were at War? | MiniPod 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.400 Native Lamme Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership 0:00:03.440 --> 0:00:05.279 with Reason Choice Media. 0:00:05.360 --> 0:00:08.440 Well Come, well come, well come, well come, come, Welcome. 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:13.600 Welcome home, guys, it is time for our first mini 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:16.599 pod with our new co hosts Bacari Sellers and So 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:20.720 if you listen to this week's episode, we got into something. Bacari, 0:00:20.760 --> 0:00:23.119 you were making the point that black men find it 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:27.120 hard to breathe amidst Black girl magic. I don't want 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:30.200 to misquote you. I'm gonna give you a chance. I 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:31.920 want to give you a chance. But we want to 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:33.640 hit that topic because I do want to offer you 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.199 the chance for some clarity and have a quick discussion. 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:39.279 But we're also going to get to another topic that 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:44.560 touches on black conferences, black businesses and how we judge them, 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.000 perhaps unfairly. But before we get into that conversation, I 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:52.559 did want to revisit this idea that black men can't breathe. 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:53.920 I think it's a you know, we were having a 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:56.960 conversation about stephen A. Smith and the transition and how 0:00:57.000 --> 0:01:00.240 that relates to like the thought, and you know, one 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:01.760 of the things we were saying is that, you know, 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:04.920 we haven't had folesome wholesome conversations around black men from 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:08.240 a policy perspective that requires listening to them. And the 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:10.280 other thing is and something I hear often which I 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.440 you know, in the spaces that I'm in, is in 0:01:13.480 --> 0:01:16.120 this era of black girl magic, is their space for 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:20.320 black men to breathe and lead. And there is this 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.600 theory that is pervasive. I think that and I know 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.000 my friend Andrew probably will say it ain't rooted in nothing, 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:29.160 and that also may have some validity. I just don't 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:33.080 want to discount the thought that during this period where 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:38.600 we've seen this attention and most of it is earned 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:43.320 attention on black women, their success, their educational achievement, entrepreneurial success, etc. 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:45.920 Black men are trying to figure out their place in 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:49.680 our communities and once what once was a place of 0:01:49.760 --> 0:01:53.080 leading your household and leading your communities and being able 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.480 to be that voice and be able to speak out. 0:01:55.760 --> 0:01:58.160 There are many people wondering if that role is still 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.160 there or if their voice has to shrink during this 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:03.800 era of uplift. Now. I know the quick response that 0:02:03.840 --> 0:02:07.600 people will say is, oh, well, they can coexist like 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:11.840 there's no there's nobody pushing you out. And you know, 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:14.400 I think that I think that the response would be 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:20.640 that sometimes sometimes that it is so loud, not not 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:25.760 literally loud, but it's so loud as we praise as 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:29.360 we should that many times we feel as if our accomplishments, 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:32.959 our successes, or even more importantly, our trials and tribulations 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:36.200 go unnoticed, and that pushes us further in the back 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:38.720 of our homes and further in the back of our communities. 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:40.800 And I think that's reflective of some of the things 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:41.359 you see. 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:44.160 What what does it being noticed look like? 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:44.280 Like? 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.320 What is the thing that we should do? Because I 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:50.160 think a lot of us celebrate each other. Angela says 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:52.840 often we've all kind of adopted it, but I think 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:54.600 you were the first to say, like we all we got. 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:58.520 Sometimes that means she definitely thinks I didn't agree that. Okay, 0:02:58.560 --> 0:02:59.240 Well I gave her. 0:02:59.400 --> 0:03:01.680 I gave that's like a bath, that's like a team thing, 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:02.000 you know. 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:06.200 Okay, in the context of this conversation, I gave Angela 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:09.120 credit for it, but it was a popular saying. But 0:03:09.160 --> 0:03:11.200 I think in the context that we've said it, sometimes 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.600 it's amongst our you know, girl group of machetes. We 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.080 all we got, And I've asked other people like, but 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.079 we ain't all you got, like you have a wonderful, 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.640 doting husband or wonderful partner. And the feedback I've gotten 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:23.959 from women is yeah, but it's not like the love 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.200 I experience with you guys, Like, yes, my husband is amazing, 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:29.600 I love him. But if I step out with you all, 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:32.160 y'all notice my shoes, my fit, my earrings, like from 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.040 head to toe. The love we give each other is 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:36.120 not a diss to black men, but it is something 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.680 beautiful that we experience. I wonder why in that space 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.680 would black men feel crowded out and and take that 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.680 as though we don't need very much our counterparts, very much, 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:52.120 our companions to be leaders, to be at our side 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:55.560 and to help confront everything that we're going through. 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.119 Now, people naturally ask the question, is that neat there? 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.360 I mean we're still having Yes, I mean, but that 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.200 mean I hear you and I respect that. That's why 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.600 we're friends, right, we value that need, we hear those things. 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:12.360 But I also think that it's just it's about we're 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:14.920 still I mean, we really, we really are trying to 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:19.960 have conversations and particularly much black men about defining masculinity. 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.800 We're trying to make sure that we can define masculinity 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:25.880 without one being toxic or two ushering a new era 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.320 of patriarchy. Right. I mean that is a that's a 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:33.839 real delicate, delicate interesting because you want to you want 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:35.720 to say that, Look, I'm the head of my household, right, 0:04:35.760 --> 0:04:38.240 I lead my household. I am I want to be 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:41.720 an example for my wife and my children in my household. 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.440 But I'm also like, I'm not I'm not confined to 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:49.200 these pre existing, antiquated you know, uh gender. 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:51.400 Yeah, you want to answer examples of that. You all 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:53.000 talked about doing drop off and pick up. 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:58.440 With your kids, and right exactly, and I brush air 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:02.080 real well, and so so uh you know, I think, 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.039 but we're redefining those roles. And because we like to 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:06.800 do drop off and pick up, and because I like 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:08.960 the I like to say I do the really good 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:11.200 shopping for my kids at H and M and you know, 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:13.240 baby gap and all of that stuff. I like, I 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:14.960 like sayy to look fly, and I you know, I 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:18.080 don't want the mayor mismatch athletic brands and stuff like. 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.560 I think that's like redefining masculinity. But we're having those 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:26.120 serious discussions and I think that there are there are times, 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:29.240 particularly over the past decade, where we've been so consumed 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:32.400 with and I think Black girl Magic is cheapening it, 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:36.320 but we've been so consumed with having conversations about a 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.800 specific gender and their success in a particular arena that 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.120 many times, many men, for whatever reason that may be, 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:46.159 feel left out of that conversation. And I'm just saying, 0:05:47.360 --> 0:05:48.200 I'm saying it's there. 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:55.400 I feel frustrated by that, and it's it's not because 0:05:55.760 --> 0:06:01.400 I don't think it's valid. I'm frustrated that it is 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.320 a valid right, and I'm frustrated about the wedge issue 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.320 it has become for our people. And so I actually 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:10.479 don't feel like it's like it's a fake thing. It's 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.039 not real. I've heard it so much, and I would 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:16.760 say arguably it's not even just over the last decade, 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:20.440 because I can. I can. I know like most of 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:23.800 the men that I've dated have said that I'm intimidating, 0:06:24.160 --> 0:06:27.440 and it's like, what is intimidating about me? Or I've 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:30.560 been told even by Andrew's best friend, that I was 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.520 emasculating in some way, And for me, I grew up 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:34.120 in the house. 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:36.200 I don't want to numbers. 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:41.440 Matt, but I feel like it's the thing I mean, 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:45.080 not Andrew updated Andrew's best friend back in the day. 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.640 But I think that the thing that is frustrating is 0:06:49.440 --> 0:06:51.440 I grew up in a space my dad is more 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:54.159 feminist than me, So I grew up in a space 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.200 where I was constantly celebrated, where I was urged to 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.560 share my opinion. Tiff has heard how we talk in 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:03.320 some ways has some discomfort with the way that I'll 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:04.720 talk to my dad like a here now I get 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.120 chin checked too. Sometimes he's like, I'm the father, okay, 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:12.840 but I've never changed my tone to speak to a man. 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.600 Maybe that wasn't the best teaching, but that is my truth. 0:07:16.000 --> 0:07:21.160 I have never thought that my thriving means that you 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:25.680 have to suffer or that you can't win. I reject 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:30.040 the scarcity mindset for the whole of our community, and 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.720 I just am so frustrated that we can't all do 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:33.600 that together. 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.360 And I think that that is the biggest point that 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:39.120 you've made, because I think the I think the sun 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:44.160 is bright enough, and I think that I would never 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:47.520 want any woman in my life to dim their lights 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.840 by any stretch. I mean We've worked too hard to 0:07:51.200 --> 0:07:53.480 help uplift, to get it to this point, to brighten it, 0:07:53.520 --> 0:07:57.360 to shine it. Please God, never say to dim your life. 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:59.640 I also think that there are certain men in our 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:01.880 community who have been toiling in the vineyards. Who are 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.600 the city workers, who are the drive the trucks, who 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.560 you know, help our lives go. Who are the pas, 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.240 who are the dental assistants, who are the teachers assistants. 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:12.840 Even a young man right now at Claflin or FAM 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:15.240 who are in call me mister or Clemson, you know 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:18.920 who are toiling in this vineyard, or the engineers at 0:08:18.960 --> 0:08:22.560 FAM or North Carolina ante, whatever it may be. That 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.400 while we're saying don't dim your light, we're also saying 0:08:25.480 --> 0:08:28.280 that there must be a concerted effort. There has to 0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.239 be a concerted effort to at least listen or uplift 0:08:31.240 --> 0:08:32.240 black men as well. 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:34.680 Well. 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:37.000 Good contribution. 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:42.319 I think this conversation is ongoing because I definitely think 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:46.480 there's a lot of men who are feeling pain right now, 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:52.280 and sometimes their pain comes off as hatred towards us 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:56.200 as black women. And I find that hurtful, and I 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.440 find it in ways that it has crossed over into 0:08:58.440 --> 0:08:59.200 our politics. 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.760 Yeah, it's like I'm gonna penalize all of us because 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:04.640 I'm mad at you and we don't even know what 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:07.760 where the anger is stemming. Yeah, Like you know, Andrew, 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:11.080 I hate that you're silent in this conversation because it is. 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:15.520 I could direct listeners back to episodes we've had it. 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:18.839 Well, I knew here, so you should have it. 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:22.599 So so I think people have turned. 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:24.040 Was. 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:26.640 I hate that you're silent in this conversation because I 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.440 think that people could end up watching this back and saying, see, 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.320 this is exactly what I mean. There's a conversation about 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.600 how black men fill in the ethos, and a black 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:37.640 man was silenced on a platform and that I just 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:43.520 want to be clear that that's not. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.240 It's the conversation is. I think it's exhausting, and I 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.120 also think it is self fulfilling. 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.760 You said that, so transparency for our viewers. Andrew did 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:54.440 not want to talk about this. 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:56.360 Yeah, I don't mind that's talking. 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:00.160 Yeah, but the three of us like proceeded with the conversation. 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:01.920 But I didn't understand what you were saying. When you 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:04.120 were saying self fulfilling, what that means. 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.640 I think for some reason it is said enough from 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:08.400 black women. 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:10.480 Some that. 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:19.479 Either out of jealousy or that a man is reacting 0:10:20.000 --> 0:10:23.199 the way he's reacting in response to the black woman, 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:28.160 And sometimes a man is reacting the way he's acting 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:33.720 with no consideration for the black women, and that their 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.800 feelings can be justified, can be real, can be hard 0:10:37.880 --> 0:10:43.439 come by without them being in contrast to your celebration. 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:46.160 I don't experience that. 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:50.080 I just personally do not experience a rejection of any 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:53.719 black woman in my life because of her success. The 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:57.040 men in my life don't measure whether or not they're 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.520 worth anything by whether or not their woman is exalted 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:05.080 more mm hmmm. I think it is more complex and 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.120 more nuanced. And although it may make them feel good 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:11.480 to believe that there's an army of men who are 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:15.440 organized exclusively against black women, I don't. I don't find 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:16.199 that to be the case. 0:11:32.480 --> 0:11:33.160 What am I so? 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:33.600 I don't. 0:11:33.679 --> 0:11:36.480 I mean, I don't want to offend men, and I. 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:37.959 Don't know we're saying the same thing. 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.679 In some ways. In some ways you are. But I 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:46.360 do think there is a slither of black men who 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.600 are the opposite of you, Andrew, and. 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:52.240 There's going to be that. I mean We're not a monolith, 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:54.560 so there is going to be that in the infant 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:59.800 But I think, piggybacking on Andrew's point slightly, I think 0:11:59.840 --> 0:12:06.280 that that when sometimes the response that we have two 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:10.439 black women is not because of black women, and I 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:12.200 think that I think that one of the things that 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:16.439 you said, Tiffany was I think that, you know, black 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:19.160 men take it out on us because of and I 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.400 think what Andrew and I are saying is that sometimes 0:12:22.400 --> 0:12:27.520 it's just hard and maybe we're maybe we're not equipped 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:33.719 enough at that particular moment to manage expectation, emotion, all 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.920 of those things, and the brunt of that is taken 0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:40.920 out on our partner we live in highly segregated communities 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.600 or the people we interact with on a daily basis, however. 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.960 Which is probably true in white households, we might conclude, 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.440 and the story emanating from that isn't that white men 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:55.760 hate white women, correct or that they respond this way 0:12:55.880 --> 0:12:58.240 because they're jealous of their white wives. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:12:58.840 Correct. 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:03.480 But any reaction that we might have that is not 0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:07.839 the one that is expected by the black woman on 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:12.320 the opposing on the opposite you, literally opposite you, is 0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:15.800 that we're that way because they're winning. 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:20.760 Yeah, And that's my point is that I don't. I don't, 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:24.080 I don't care not, I don't care. I uplift your winning. 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.360 I appreciate your winning, but I also there also has 0:13:27.440 --> 0:13:29.840 to be space for me. 0:13:30.240 --> 0:13:31.960 There does have to be space for you. And by 0:13:32.000 --> 0:13:34.960 the way that you would, you would expect there to 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.240 be space for you even if she wasn't uplifted and 0:13:38.320 --> 0:13:41.720 in celebration moment, just as she would expect that business 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:43.960 be space for her. I was running for governor, I 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.640 was being mayor, I was you know, I. 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:48.280 Did not mean me individually. 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:49.920 What you're saying. 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:52.560 Is is that I'm doing all of those things and 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:54.800 I'm not coming home with the expectation that you're going 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.559 to lift me up on every leaning side and make 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:00.320 me feel like I'm the star and I hung it too. 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:07.960 Relationships are complex, There's a lot that goes into them. 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:14.000 People as individuals are complex, and I just wish that 0:14:14.480 --> 0:14:19.320 we could respect the complexity, the complexity of the individual 0:14:19.560 --> 0:14:23.200 without making it a monolith for the community. Remember that, yeah, 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:26.520 and that we can be set in those expectations because 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.320 we're human. As a human being, I want to be 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.080 lifted up as a human being. I want to be 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:36.040 the thing that my children aspire towards. I want I 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:37.960 want them to think I hung the sun in the moment, 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:39.800 but I want them to think they're Mama hung it too. 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.800 Yeah that's so good, Andrew. I'm really happy that you 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.920 gave that context because I think the people I'm focusing 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.280 on maybe don't even deserve this level of attention we're 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:52.120 giving them because what you're saying is no, like, my 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.400 existence is not in response to you. It's I just 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:56.160 I fully. 0:14:55.920 --> 0:15:00.240 Get also acknowledgement of a human need. Yes, that is 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:03.680 very individual. Yeah, but we understand it as the collective. 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:05.480 To those people that you're talking about, we don't need 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.680 to give breath to or space to. I mean, I 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.840 hear them, but they have an audience because we haven't 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:16.640 listened to the people that Andrew and I maybe imperfectly 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:18.120 are trying to describe. 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:18.680 Yeah. 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:22.480 I also think that there's something in there in terms 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.360 of accountability for black women, because part of what I 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:28.480 heard from Andrew is why does it even have to 0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.240 be set up that way that it's a versus right 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:35.120 that I'm because you are being celebrated in your winning, 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:37.080 it doesn't mean that I'm hating on you because I'm 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.880 at a low point or because I have some human needs, 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.160 you know. So I also think there is some accountability 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.840 for us to in denying the existence of the story, 0:15:45.920 --> 0:15:49.040 not amplifying the story, not amplifying like that's not what 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.280 it is, industry. 0:15:50.560 --> 0:15:55.040 Self fulfilling. Keep putting that out there. There are gonna 0:15:55.040 --> 0:15:58.600 be women who experience toxic men in their lives and 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.720 may choose this as a cheap way to explain their behavior. 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.440 It's an off ramp, and I just think it's more 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:09.240 complicated than that. It requires more of us than that, 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:14.360 And I almost feel victimized by it. Not victimized, but 0:16:14.480 --> 0:16:19.600 I feel like we're the ire of the folks who 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.520 who want that narrative to be the most pejorative narrative 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.800 within our community. They want the whole last election with 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.280 Kamala Harris as our nominee. We know that they have 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:36.920 these China and foreign agents, have Russian agents. They are 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:39.320 studying us, They are looking at us. They want to 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.920 know what creates ciphers within our community. And I'm not saying, 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.480 please know, I'm not saying it's being generated by them 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.520 and that it doesn't exist. No, what they take is 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:51.560 what's real and exacerbate, They magnify it, they make it, 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.000 they make it the experience of all of us, even 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.320 if it's ten percent of us or so. I'm not 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.800 to say there are toxic people out there. I believe Steven, 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.360 if it's one of them, I believe he probably has 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.919 an abject rejection of white black women's being being successful, 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:07.840 being raised as successful. 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:08.960 I don't know the man. 0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:11.040 I can only read what I can read from him, 0:17:11.040 --> 0:17:13.440 which is why you got so much heat for us? 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.159 And I don't ever see you have heat for any But. 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:18.800 Why is the weird part about that is I don't 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.600 see you anywhere. I don't see you in I don't 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:25.919 see you trying to trying to meet the need of 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.920 people that you are very quick to. 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:30.399 Castigate, vilified, whatever that is. 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.560 Like, you ain't in the streets, right and you. 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:34.960 Don't have to be in the streets to do it. 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.919 You could be just just loving God, Daddy, this, this, 0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:39.480 that and a third or another, or just be you 0:17:39.480 --> 0:17:41.720 know what, proud to see us represented. 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.399 I think that what I was attempting to say to 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:45.959 kind of put a pin in it is that I 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:47.679 think that for a long period of time. There are 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:49.960 a lot of needs of black men that go unspoken 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:55.280 because we're taught and condition to not speak them. And 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:58.640 for better or worse, those needs go unspoken, they're not communicated, 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:03.080 whether that directly or indirectly, and those things manifest and 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:06.399 they permeate a trauma where they display a trauma, and 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.280 that trauma's met with the stiff response, and nobody really 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.760 ever asked the question what's wrong, A. 0:18:11.760 --> 0:18:15.119 Stiff response that oftentimes I think gets curated by this 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:18.119 narrative and logic communities like oh you mad at me 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:22.880 because I thought about that thing or whatever about it's that, 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:24.520 you know what, We used to have connection when I 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:28.720 came home, and if you could read that something was off, 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:30.840 you kind of followed up. 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:31.360 To figure it out. 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:34.560 And I did the same because I know you that well. 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:41.680 And now my need for your follow up is interpreted 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.760 as my rejection of your good day, yes, rather than 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:48.760 that's the fact that I'm some play. This is on 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.120 a whole other plane and we used to be connected 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:53.000 in that way, and so and. 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.399 That's a community. Now, that's a community analysis, even as 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:57.200 much as it could be. 0:18:58.680 --> 0:19:02.640 I mean it to be, yes, harbinger for what's happening. 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.440 More broadly, how do we fix it? Yeah, stop perpetuating 0:19:06.480 --> 0:19:09.760 a negative, a narrative that doesn't represent all of us, 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:15.159 and maybe interrogate the narrative more deeply. It's at a humor, 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.480 at a more human level that I think in reflect. 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.520 I think, I think the conversations that we're having amongst 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:23.560 each other are okay, But the conversations you all have 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:26.239 amongst yourselves and we have amongst us are even more 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:27.440 important and more valuable. 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.000 Agreed, which also means we have to throw off the 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:31.199 yoke of some of that stuff. 0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.520 And we try. I mean, we have them, but their 0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:38.159 surface or they're quick, or they're non existent. Yeah, but 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:39.879 we have to be willing to do that, just as 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:41.720 much as you all have to be willing to go. 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:43.679 And I believe that, by the way, I believe the 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:49.800 narrative is as proliferative with black men as it is 0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.080 with black women. I think it's intended to be that way. 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:57.679 I think there are factors in motion to keep that going, 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:03.000 so that we decide where each other enemies. And if 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.160 you were, if you were our opponents, what I wouldn't 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:07.440 think of a better place to. 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:09.960 Go than there to attack our loves. 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:11.560 I could do a better place. 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:18.680 Yeah, y'all, yes, I was going to ask you or 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:20.320 do we want to say we should stop this one 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.119 and go to another one? If okay, well let's I 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:24.440 do want to quickly get to this because this is 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:26.439 something Angela brought up. So do you want to frame this? 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:28.240 We let's close this one. 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.800 Oh never mind, then guys, yeah, we're going to close 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:33.200 this out. But before we closed it out, I do 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.120 just want to say thank you to Andrew and Bakari 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:41.560 for your openness vulnerability. It was learning for me and 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:42.560 humbling for both. 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.880 The things goes both ways, right. The appreciation is that 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.880 y'all can bring yourselves fully to the conversation through your 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.880 own lived experience. You can even in the moment say 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:53.520 you know what, I might be measuring this by a 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:59.600 couple of bad experiences that might inflate the size of that. 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:02.760 And we can also be honest enough to say, you 0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:07.440 ain't making it up. This exists. Let's just check how 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:09.320 we think, how proliferated we think this. 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:14.120 And also don't The compliment I have for you all 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.520