1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Native Lamme Pod is a production of iHeartRadio in partnership 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,279 Speaker 1: with Reason Choice Media. 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 2: Well Come, well come, well come, well come, come, Welcome. 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 3: Welcome home, guys, it is time for our first mini 5 00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 3: pod with our new co hosts Bacari Sellers and So 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 3: if you listen to this week's episode, we got into something. Bacari, 7 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:23,119 Speaker 3: you were making the point that black men find it 8 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 3: hard to breathe amidst Black girl magic. I don't want 9 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 3: to misquote you. I'm gonna give you a chance. I 10 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 3: want to give you a chance. But we want to 11 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 3: hit that topic because I do want to offer you 12 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 3: the chance for some clarity and have a quick discussion. 13 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:39,279 Speaker 3: But we're also going to get to another topic that 14 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 3: touches on black conferences, black businesses and how we judge them, 15 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 3: perhaps unfairly. But before we get into that conversation, I 16 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 3: did want to revisit this idea that black men can't breathe. 17 00:00:52,640 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 4: I think it's a you know, we were having a 18 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 4: conversation about stephen A. Smith and the transition and how 19 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 4: that relates to like the thought, and you know, one 20 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 4: of the things we were saying is that, you know, 21 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 4: we haven't had folesome wholesome conversations around black men from 22 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 4: a policy perspective that requires listening to them. And the 23 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 4: other thing is and something I hear often which I 24 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 4: you know, in the spaces that I'm in, is in 25 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 4: this era of black girl magic, is their space for 26 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 4: black men to breathe and lead. And there is this 27 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 4: theory that is pervasive. I think that and I know 28 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 4: my friend Andrew probably will say it ain't rooted in nothing, 29 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 4: and that also may have some validity. I just don't 30 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 4: want to discount the thought that during this period where 31 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 4: we've seen this attention and most of it is earned 32 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 4: attention on black women, their success, their educational achievement, entrepreneurial success, etc. 33 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 4: Black men are trying to figure out their place in 34 00:01:45,959 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 4: our communities and once what once was a place of 35 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 4: leading your household and leading your communities and being able 36 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 4: to be that voice and be able to speak out. 37 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 4: There are many people wondering if that role is still 38 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 4: there or if their voice has to shrink during this 39 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 4: era of uplift. Now. I know the quick response that 40 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 4: people will say is, oh, well, they can coexist like 41 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 4: there's no there's nobody pushing you out. And you know, 42 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 4: I think that I think that the response would be 43 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 4: that sometimes sometimes that it is so loud, not not 44 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 4: literally loud, but it's so loud as we praise as 45 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 4: we should that many times we feel as if our accomplishments, 46 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 4: our successes, or even more importantly, our trials and tribulations 47 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 4: go unnoticed, and that pushes us further in the back 48 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 4: of our homes and further in the back of our communities. 49 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 4: And I think that's reflective of some of the things 50 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 4: you see. 51 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 3: What what does it being noticed look like? 52 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 4: Like? 53 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 3: What is the thing that we should do? Because I 54 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 3: think a lot of us celebrate each other. Angela says 55 00:02:50,240 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 3: often we've all kind of adopted it, but I think 56 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 3: you were the first to say, like we all we got. 57 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 3: Sometimes that means she definitely thinks I didn't agree that. Okay, 58 00:02:58,560 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 3: Well I gave her. 59 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 4: I gave that's like a bath, that's like a team thing, 60 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 4: you know. 61 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 3: Okay, in the context of this conversation, I gave Angela 62 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 3: credit for it, but it was a popular saying. But 63 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 3: I think in the context that we've said it, sometimes 64 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 3: it's amongst our you know, girl group of machetes. We 65 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 3: all we got, And I've asked other people like, but 66 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 3: we ain't all you got, like you have a wonderful, 67 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 3: doting husband or wonderful partner. And the feedback I've gotten 68 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:23,959 Speaker 3: from women is yeah, but it's not like the love 69 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 3: I experience with you guys, Like, yes, my husband is amazing, 70 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 3: I love him. But if I step out with you all, 71 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 3: y'all notice my shoes, my fit, my earrings, like from 72 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 3: head to toe. The love we give each other is 73 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 3: not a diss to black men, but it is something 74 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 3: beautiful that we experience. I wonder why in that space 75 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 3: would black men feel crowded out and and take that 76 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 3: as though we don't need very much our counterparts, very much, 77 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 3: our companions to be leaders, to be at our side 78 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 3: and to help confront everything that we're going through. 79 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,119 Speaker 4: Now, people naturally ask the question, is that neat there? 80 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 4: I mean we're still having Yes, I mean, but that 81 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 4: mean I hear you and I respect that. That's why 82 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 4: we're friends, right, we value that need, we hear those things. 83 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 4: But I also think that it's just it's about we're 84 00:04:12,440 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 4: still I mean, we really, we really are trying to 85 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 4: have conversations and particularly much black men about defining masculinity. 86 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 4: We're trying to make sure that we can define masculinity 87 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 4: without one being toxic or two ushering a new era 88 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 4: of patriarchy. Right. I mean that is a that's a 89 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 4: real delicate, delicate interesting because you want to you want 90 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 4: to say that, Look, I'm the head of my household, right, 91 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 4: I lead my household. I am I want to be 92 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 4: an example for my wife and my children in my household. 93 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 4: But I'm also like, I'm not I'm not confined to 94 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 4: these pre existing, antiquated you know, uh gender. 95 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, you want to answer examples of that. You all 96 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 3: talked about doing drop off and pick up. 97 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 4: With your kids, and right exactly, and I brush air 98 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 4: real well, and so so uh you know, I think, 99 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 4: but we're redefining those roles. And because we like to 100 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 4: do drop off and pick up, and because I like 101 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 4: the I like to say I do the really good 102 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 4: shopping for my kids at H and M and you know, 103 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 4: baby gap and all of that stuff. I like, I 104 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 4: like sayy to look fly, and I you know, I 105 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 4: don't want the mayor mismatch athletic brands and stuff like. 106 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 4: I think that's like redefining masculinity. But we're having those 107 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 4: serious discussions and I think that there are there are times, 108 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 4: particularly over the past decade, where we've been so consumed 109 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 4: with and I think Black girl Magic is cheapening it, 110 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 4: but we've been so consumed with having conversations about a 111 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 4: specific gender and their success in a particular arena that 112 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 4: many times, many men, for whatever reason that may be, 113 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 4: feel left out of that conversation. And I'm just saying, 114 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 4: I'm saying it's there. 115 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 5: I feel frustrated by that, and it's it's not because 116 00:05:55,760 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 5: I don't think it's valid. I'm frustrated that it is 117 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 5: a valid right, and I'm frustrated about the wedge issue 118 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,320 Speaker 5: it has become for our people. And so I actually 119 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 5: don't feel like it's like it's a fake thing. It's 120 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 5: not real. I've heard it so much, and I would 121 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 5: say arguably it's not even just over the last decade, 122 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 5: because I can. I can. I know like most of 123 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 5: the men that I've dated have said that I'm intimidating, 124 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 5: and it's like, what is intimidating about me? Or I've 125 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 5: been told even by Andrew's best friend, that I was 126 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 5: emasculating in some way, And for me, I grew up 127 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 5: in the house. 128 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 4: I don't want to numbers. 129 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 5: Matt, but I feel like it's the thing I mean, 130 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 5: not Andrew updated Andrew's best friend back in the day. 131 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 5: But I think that the thing that is frustrating is 132 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 5: I grew up in a space my dad is more 133 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 5: feminist than me, So I grew up in a space 134 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 5: where I was constantly celebrated, where I was urged to 135 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 5: share my opinion. Tiff has heard how we talk in 136 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 5: some ways has some discomfort with the way that I'll 137 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 5: talk to my dad like a here now I get 138 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 5: chin checked too. Sometimes he's like, I'm the father, okay, 139 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 5: but I've never changed my tone to speak to a man. 140 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 5: Maybe that wasn't the best teaching, but that is my truth. 141 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 5: I have never thought that my thriving means that you 142 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 5: have to suffer or that you can't win. I reject 143 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 5: the scarcity mindset for the whole of our community, and 144 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 5: I just am so frustrated that we can't all do 145 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 5: that together. 146 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 4: And I think that that is the biggest point that 147 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 4: you've made, because I think the I think the sun 148 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 4: is bright enough, and I think that I would never 149 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,520 Speaker 4: want any woman in my life to dim their lights 150 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 4: by any stretch. I mean We've worked too hard to 151 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 4: help uplift, to get it to this point, to brighten it, 152 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 4: to shine it. Please God, never say to dim your life. 153 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 4: I also think that there are certain men in our 154 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 4: community who have been toiling in the vineyards. Who are 155 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 4: the city workers, who are the drive the trucks, who 156 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 4: you know, help our lives go. Who are the pas, 157 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 4: who are the dental assistants, who are the teachers assistants. 158 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 4: Even a young man right now at Claflin or FAM 159 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 4: who are in call me mister or Clemson, you know 160 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 4: who are toiling in this vineyard, or the engineers at 161 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 4: FAM or North Carolina ante, whatever it may be. That 162 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 4: while we're saying don't dim your light, we're also saying 163 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 4: that there must be a concerted effort. There has to 164 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,239 Speaker 4: be a concerted effort to at least listen or uplift 165 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 4: black men as well. 166 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 3: Well. 167 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 4: Good contribution. 168 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,319 Speaker 3: I think this conversation is ongoing because I definitely think 169 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 3: there's a lot of men who are feeling pain right now, 170 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 3: and sometimes their pain comes off as hatred towards us 171 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 3: as black women. And I find that hurtful, and I 172 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 3: find it in ways that it has crossed over into 173 00:08:58,440 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 3: our politics. 174 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like I'm gonna penalize all of us because 175 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 5: I'm mad at you and we don't even know what 176 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 5: where the anger is stemming. Yeah, Like you know, Andrew, 177 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 5: I hate that you're silent in this conversation because it is. 178 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 2: I could direct listeners back to episodes we've had it. 179 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 4: Well, I knew here, so you should have it. 180 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,599 Speaker 3: So so I think people have turned. 181 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: Was. 182 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 5: I hate that you're silent in this conversation because I 183 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 5: think that people could end up watching this back and saying, see, 184 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 5: this is exactly what I mean. There's a conversation about 185 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 5: how black men fill in the ethos, and a black 186 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 5: man was silenced on a platform and that I just 187 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 5: want to be clear that that's not. 188 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: It's the conversation is. I think it's exhausting, and I 189 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 2: also think it is self fulfilling. 190 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 3: You said that, so transparency for our viewers. Andrew did 191 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,440 Speaker 3: not want to talk about this. 192 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't mind that's talking. 193 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, but the three of us like proceeded with the conversation. 194 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 3: But I didn't understand what you were saying. When you 195 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 3: were saying self fulfilling, what that means. 196 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 2: I think for some reason it is said enough from 197 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: black women. 198 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: Some that. 199 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:19,479 Speaker 2: Either out of jealousy or that a man is reacting 200 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 2: the way he's reacting in response to the black woman, 201 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 2: And sometimes a man is reacting the way he's acting 202 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 2: with no consideration for the black women, and that their 203 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 2: feelings can be justified, can be real, can be hard 204 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:43,439 Speaker 2: come by without them being in contrast to your celebration. 205 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: I don't experience that. 206 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 2: I just personally do not experience a rejection of any 207 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 2: black woman in my life because of her success. The 208 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: men in my life don't measure whether or not they're 209 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: worth anything by whether or not their woman is exalted 210 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 2: more mm hmmm. I think it is more complex and 211 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 2: more nuanced. And although it may make them feel good 212 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 2: to believe that there's an army of men who are 213 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 2: organized exclusively against black women, I don't. I don't find 214 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 2: that to be the case. 215 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 3: What am I so? 216 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 2: I don't. 217 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 3: I mean, I don't want to offend men, and I. 218 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 4: Don't know we're saying the same thing. 219 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:42,679 Speaker 3: In some ways. In some ways you are. But I 220 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 3: do think there is a slither of black men who 221 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 3: are the opposite of you, Andrew, and. 222 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:52,240 Speaker 4: There's going to be that. I mean We're not a monolith, 223 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 4: so there is going to be that in the infant 224 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 4: But I think, piggybacking on Andrew's point slightly, I think 225 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 4: that that when sometimes the response that we have two 226 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 4: black women is not because of black women, and I 227 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 4: think that I think that one of the things that 228 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 4: you said, Tiffany was I think that, you know, black 229 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 4: men take it out on us because of and I 230 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 4: think what Andrew and I are saying is that sometimes 231 00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 4: it's just hard and maybe we're maybe we're not equipped 232 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:33,719 Speaker 4: enough at that particular moment to manage expectation, emotion, all 233 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,920 Speaker 4: of those things, and the brunt of that is taken 234 00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 4: out on our partner we live in highly segregated communities 235 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 4: or the people we interact with on a daily basis, however. 236 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 2: Which is probably true in white households, we might conclude, 237 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 2: and the story emanating from that isn't that white men 238 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 2: hate white women, correct or that they respond this way 239 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 2: because they're jealous of their white wives. 240 00:12:58,440 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 4: Correct. 241 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 2: But any reaction that we might have that is not 242 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,839 Speaker 2: the one that is expected by the black woman on 243 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 2: the opposing on the opposite you, literally opposite you, is 244 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 2: that we're that way because they're winning. 245 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, And that's my point is that I don't. I don't, 246 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 4: I don't care not, I don't care. I uplift your winning. 247 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 4: I appreciate your winning, but I also there also has 248 00:13:27,440 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 4: to be space for me. 249 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 2: There does have to be space for you. And by 250 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 2: the way that you would, you would expect there to 251 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 2: be space for you even if she wasn't uplifted and 252 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 2: in celebration moment, just as she would expect that business 253 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 2: be space for her. I was running for governor, I 254 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 2: was being mayor, I was you know, I. 255 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 4: Did not mean me individually. 256 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: What you're saying. 257 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,560 Speaker 2: Is is that I'm doing all of those things and 258 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,800 Speaker 2: I'm not coming home with the expectation that you're going 259 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 2: to lift me up on every leaning side and make 260 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 2: me feel like I'm the star and I hung it too. 261 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 2: Relationships are complex, There's a lot that goes into them. 262 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 2: People as individuals are complex, and I just wish that 263 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 2: we could respect the complexity, the complexity of the individual 264 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 2: without making it a monolith for the community. Remember that, yeah, 265 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: and that we can be set in those expectations because 266 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 2: we're human. As a human being, I want to be 267 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 2: lifted up as a human being. I want to be 268 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 2: the thing that my children aspire towards. I want I 269 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 2: want them to think I hung the sun in the moment, 270 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 2: but I want them to think they're Mama hung it too. 271 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 3: Yeah that's so good, Andrew. I'm really happy that you 272 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 3: gave that context because I think the people I'm focusing 273 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 3: on maybe don't even deserve this level of attention we're 274 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 3: giving them because what you're saying is no, like, my 275 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 3: existence is not in response to you. It's I just 276 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 3: I fully. 277 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:00,240 Speaker 2: Get also acknowledgement of a human need. Yes, that is 278 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 2: very individual. Yeah, but we understand it as the collective. 279 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 4: To those people that you're talking about, we don't need 280 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 4: to give breath to or space to. I mean, I 281 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 4: hear them, but they have an audience because we haven't 282 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 4: listened to the people that Andrew and I maybe imperfectly 283 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 4: are trying to describe. 284 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. 285 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 5: I also think that there's something in there in terms 286 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 5: of accountability for black women, because part of what I 287 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 5: heard from Andrew is why does it even have to 288 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 5: be set up that way that it's a versus right 289 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 5: that I'm because you are being celebrated in your winning, 290 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,080 Speaker 5: it doesn't mean that I'm hating on you because I'm 291 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 5: at a low point or because I have some human needs, 292 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 5: you know. So I also think there is some accountability 293 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 5: for us to in denying the existence of the story, 294 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 5: not amplifying the story, not amplifying like that's not what 295 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 5: it is, industry. 296 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: Self fulfilling. Keep putting that out there. There are gonna 297 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 2: be women who experience toxic men in their lives and 298 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 2: may choose this as a cheap way to explain their behavior. 299 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: It's an off ramp, and I just think it's more 300 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 2: complicated than that. It requires more of us than that, 301 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 2: And I almost feel victimized by it. Not victimized, but 302 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 2: I feel like we're the ire of the folks who 303 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:23,520 Speaker 2: who want that narrative to be the most pejorative narrative 304 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 2: within our community. They want the whole last election with 305 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 2: Kamala Harris as our nominee. We know that they have 306 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 2: these China and foreign agents, have Russian agents. They are 307 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 2: studying us, They are looking at us. They want to 308 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 2: know what creates ciphers within our community. And I'm not saying, 309 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 2: please know, I'm not saying it's being generated by them 310 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 2: and that it doesn't exist. No, what they take is 311 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 2: what's real and exacerbate, They magnify it, they make it, 312 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 2: they make it the experience of all of us, even 313 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 2: if it's ten percent of us or so. I'm not 314 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: to say there are toxic people out there. I believe Steven, 315 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: if it's one of them, I believe he probably has 316 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,919 Speaker 2: an abject rejection of white black women's being being successful, 317 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 2: being raised as successful. 318 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: I don't know the man. 319 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 2: I can only read what I can read from him, 320 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 2: which is why you got so much heat for us? 321 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 2: And I don't ever see you have heat for any But. 322 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 4: Why is the weird part about that is I don't 323 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 4: see you anywhere. I don't see you in I don't 324 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 4: see you trying to trying to meet the need of 325 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 4: people that you are very quick to. 326 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 2: Castigate, vilified, whatever that is. 327 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 4: Like, you ain't in the streets, right and you. 328 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 2: Don't have to be in the streets to do it. 329 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 2: You could be just just loving God, Daddy, this, this, 330 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 2: that and a third or another, or just be you 331 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 2: know what, proud to see us represented. 332 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 4: I think that what I was attempting to say to 333 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 4: kind of put a pin in it is that I 334 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 4: think that for a long period of time. There are 335 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 4: a lot of needs of black men that go unspoken 336 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 4: because we're taught and condition to not speak them. And 337 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,640 Speaker 4: for better or worse, those needs go unspoken, they're not communicated, 338 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 4: whether that directly or indirectly, and those things manifest and 339 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 4: they permeate a trauma where they display a trauma, and 340 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 4: that trauma's met with the stiff response, and nobody really 341 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 4: ever asked the question what's wrong, A. 342 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,119 Speaker 2: Stiff response that oftentimes I think gets curated by this 343 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,119 Speaker 2: narrative and logic communities like oh you mad at me 344 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,880 Speaker 2: because I thought about that thing or whatever about it's that, 345 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 2: you know what, We used to have connection when I 346 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 2: came home, and if you could read that something was off, 347 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: you kind of followed up. 348 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: To figure it out. 349 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: And I did the same because I know you that well. 350 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:41,680 Speaker 2: And now my need for your follow up is interpreted 351 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 2: as my rejection of your good day, yes, rather than 352 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 2: that's the fact that I'm some play. This is on 353 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 2: a whole other plane and we used to be connected 354 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,000 Speaker 2: in that way, and so and. 355 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 4: That's a community. Now, that's a community analysis, even as 356 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 4: much as it could be. 357 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 2: I mean it to be, yes, harbinger for what's happening. 358 00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 2: More broadly, how do we fix it? Yeah, stop perpetuating 359 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 2: a negative, a narrative that doesn't represent all of us, 360 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 2: and maybe interrogate the narrative more deeply. It's at a humor, 361 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 2: at a more human level that I think in reflect. 362 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 4: I think, I think the conversations that we're having amongst 363 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 4: each other are okay, But the conversations you all have 364 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,239 Speaker 4: amongst yourselves and we have amongst us are even more 365 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 4: important and more valuable. 366 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 2: Agreed, which also means we have to throw off the 367 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,199 Speaker 2: yoke of some of that stuff. 368 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 4: And we try. I mean, we have them, but their 369 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:38,159 Speaker 4: surface or they're quick, or they're non existent. Yeah, but 370 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 4: we have to be willing to do that, just as 371 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 4: much as you all have to be willing to go. 372 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 2: And I believe that, by the way, I believe the 373 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 2: narrative is as proliferative with black men as it is 374 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 2: with black women. I think it's intended to be that way. 375 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 2: I think there are factors in motion to keep that going, 376 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 2: so that we decide where each other enemies. And if 377 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 2: you were, if you were our opponents, what I wouldn't 378 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 2: think of a better place to. 379 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 3: Go than there to attack our loves. 380 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:11,560 Speaker 2: I could do a better place. 381 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, y'all, yes, I was going to ask you or 382 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 3: do we want to say we should stop this one 383 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 3: and go to another one? If okay, well let's I 384 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 3: do want to quickly get to this because this is 385 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 3: something Angela brought up. So do you want to frame this? 386 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 5: We let's close this one. 387 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 3: Oh never mind, then guys, yeah, we're going to close 388 00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 3: this out. But before we closed it out, I do 389 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 3: just want to say thank you to Andrew and Bakari 390 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 3: for your openness vulnerability. It was learning for me and 391 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 3: humbling for both. 392 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 2: The things goes both ways, right. The appreciation is that 393 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 2: y'all can bring yourselves fully to the conversation through your 394 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 2: own lived experience. You can even in the moment say 395 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,520 Speaker 2: you know what, I might be measuring this by a 396 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 2: couple of bad experiences that might inflate the size of that. 397 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 2: And we can also be honest enough to say, you 398 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 2: ain't making it up. This exists. Let's just check how 399 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 2: we think, how proliferated we think this. 400 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 4: And also don't The compliment I have for you all 401 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 4: is allowing me to make a comment like that, that's 402 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,919 Speaker 4: a big comment about a discussion that's not had often 403 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 4: and allowing the space for it to breathe sure, and 404 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 4: the new one A lot of people with the news 405 00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:28,399 Speaker 4: because a lot of people like man and then you 406 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 4: start fighting back at each other's which is where people 407 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 4: want us to be. 408 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 5: This show. Welcome home, y'all. 409 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 3: Thank you guys for tuning in, and remember you can 410 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 3: catch our mini pods every Friday. Main episodes drop every Thursday. 411 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 3: If you like what you thought, please share it, like, 412 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 3: subscribe and tell it, tell a friend. I also would 413 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 3: love to hear from our viewers to hear their thoughts 414 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 3: on this conversation. You know what you learned, what your 415 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 3: experiences are, and I'm sure there is something that will 416 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 3: revisit in the future. So Welcome Home. 417 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: Native Lampard is a production of iHeartRadio and partnership with 418 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,919 Speaker 1: reisent Choice Media. 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