Speaker 1: Welcome to the Psychology Podcast, where we give you insights
Speaker 1: into the mind, brain, behavior and creativity. I'm doctor Scott
Speaker 1: Barry Kaufman, and in each episode I have a conversation
Speaker 1: with a guest who will stimulate your mind and give
Speaker 1: you a greater understanding of yourself, others, and the world
Speaker 1: to live in. Hopefully we'll also provide a glimpse into
Speaker 1: human possibility. Thanks for listening and enjoy the podcast. I
Speaker 1: love you today. It's so great to have Corey Muskara
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Corey is an international speaker and teacher
Speaker 1: on the topics of presence and well being. He believes
Speaker 1: that when people are deeply fulfilled, I think I can
Speaker 1: get through this because you just made a joke before
Speaker 1: I started. Okay, I'm gonna try. He believes on people
Speaker 1: are deeply why I do this? Why can I do this? Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try so hard. When people are deeply fulfilled
Speaker 1: their better force in the world for other beings, the environment,
Speaker 1: and their communities. For several years, he taught mindfulness based
Speaker 1: leadership at Columbia University. Currently serves as an assistant instructor
Speaker 1: of positive psychology at the University of Pennsylvania. In twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: Corey spent six months in silence, living as a monk
Speaker 1: in Burma, meditating fourteen plus hours a day, and now
Speaker 1: he aims to bring these teachings to people in a
Speaker 1: practical and usable way, presenting to schools, organizations, and healthcare systems,
Speaker 1: as well as through workshops and retreats for the general public.
Speaker 1: Named by doctor Oz is one of the nation's leading
Speaker 1: experts on mindfulness, his meditations have now been heard more
Speaker 1: than ten million times in over one hundred countries. That
Speaker 1: is truly incredible, Corey. Congrats. Corey is host of the
Speaker 1: popular daily podcast Practicing Human, which I try to listen to.
Speaker 1: I can't keep up every day. I'm overwhelmed, but it's
Speaker 1: amazing when I listen to it. And as the author
Speaker 1: of the new book, which we can hold up for
Speaker 1: those who can have the video version of this podcast,
Speaker 1: Stop Missing Your Life, How to be deeply present in
Speaker 1: unpresent world. I made it through. Congrats Corey, Thanks man.
Speaker 1: That was fun. That was fun. Maybe I won't edit
Speaker 1: that at all so people can see our natural spontaneity.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we should just record our lunchtime conversations. Make
Speaker 1: those into podcasts episodes. Well, oh that would be very interesting.
Speaker 1: I don't think people realize I mean maybe they do,
Speaker 1: but just how interesting you are outside of the podcast,
Speaker 1: how interesting your conversations are, how curious you are as
Speaker 1: a human being, And for all those listening. Maybe I'm
Speaker 1: sure others have said this, but Scott is just the
Speaker 1: most authentic, curious human I have ever met. I love
Speaker 1: my time with him totally outside of these like formal settings.
Speaker 1: You're what you hear on the podcast is him in
Speaker 1: real life. And it's an honor to be back on man. Oh, Corey,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. That is that is such a
Speaker 1: nice thing to say, and I know you mean it.
Speaker 1: You're a very genuine human being as well well. So
Speaker 1: you know, with these kinds of chats, it's always difficult
Speaker 1: for me to know, like what point to start in.
Speaker 1: Do I start with you, you know, meditating on the mountain,
Speaker 1: or do we start But let's start with you in college.
Speaker 1: I mean, weren't you a bit of like a frat boy.
Speaker 1: Point let's start before then, because people might might in
Speaker 1: all these podcasters you're going to be doing when you're
Speaker 1: in tour, they're all going to start with your tell
Speaker 1: me about when you were a monk. But I think
Speaker 1: it's actually a lot more interesting. The transformation from frat
Speaker 1: boy to monk to me is a lot more interesting,
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, I agree, yeah, especially when you
Speaker 1: get into all the different parts of the self that
Speaker 1: can express different points exactly exactly. Yeah. Yeah, So I think,
Speaker 1: as you know, I got into meditation to impress a girl,
Speaker 1: and there was no noble impetus for it. Hippy girlfriend
Speaker 1: in college, he was in a meditation. I wanted her
Speaker 1: to think I was cool, and so I started meditating
Speaker 1: and I made it this New Year's resolution to meditate
Speaker 1: three times a week for fifteen minutes a day. Really
Speaker 1: did not know what I was doing. I would just
Speaker 1: lie in my dormom bed, have my hands on my belly,
Speaker 1: and I would be thinking inhale and within you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't. Within that just short period of time of
Speaker 1: doing the inhale excel focus practice, my sleep improved, my
Speaker 1: focus improved, I started feeling happier. And there was this
Speaker 1: this progressive maturation that was happening where it went from
Speaker 1: this superficial undertaking to this recognition that wow, this is
Speaker 1: a this is a practice that cannot only improve my
Speaker 1: well being, but can actually help me explore my humanness
Speaker 1: more deeply and intimately. But it also wasn't that noble.
Speaker 1: I think I make it sound more noble in hindsight,
Speaker 1: and probably when I talk about it regularly, it's the
Speaker 1: memory of it is more noble than it actually was,
Speaker 1: if I really get down and with like the honest thread.
Speaker 1: At that time, there was something very compelling to me
Speaker 1: about being the guy that was into meditation. I was
Speaker 1: in fraternity, I was a social chair, I was throwing
Speaker 1: a lot of parties. I wasn't a terrible human being,
Speaker 1: as like can sometimes happen in those ecosystems. Well you're
Speaker 1: one of the better ones of the worst, yeah, answer,
Speaker 1: and I'm totally so. Yeah, But I think fair to
Speaker 1: say as well. But you know, you're you're exploring. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people are exploring their identities obviously
Speaker 1: at any point in their lives, but especially at that
Speaker 1: age twenty twenty one, twenty two. And I loved being
Speaker 1: the idea of being the person that nobody expected to
Speaker 1: be into this, like the guy that was into you know,
Speaker 1: throwing parties and also into meditation. There was something mysterious
Speaker 1: about it, and I still remember people being like, WHOA,
Speaker 1: that's so cool, Look what Corey is into. And if
Speaker 1: I'm being totally honest, the first I say, year of
Speaker 1: getting into this practice was probably heavily driven by the
Speaker 1: ego identity of being someone that was into meditation, which
Speaker 1: tons of irony there. I had enough awareness to catch
Speaker 1: that as a motivating force for going into this work
Speaker 1: and also recognizing that at the heart of this work
Speaker 1: is probably the complete opposite intention. And it was that
Speaker 1: the recognition that this is still a bit of a
Speaker 1: superficial undertaking that caused me to want to go over
Speaker 1: to Burma and take this practice much more seriously and
Speaker 1: go much more deeply and see if nobody knew I
Speaker 1: was meditating, if that identity was totally stripped from me,
Speaker 1: would I still be interested in this? Would I still
Speaker 1: pursue it? Prior to Burma, I didn't know the answer
Speaker 1: to that, And afterwards there was much more clarity. What
Speaker 1: motivates you now? Do you feel like it's an inverted
Speaker 1: U shaped curve it all? Do you feel like like
Speaker 1: do you feel right now just as you felt when
Speaker 1: you were on the mountain, or do you feel like
Speaker 1: you're there's a deeper integration. I asked, this is very seriously, like,
Speaker 1: perhaps I could see a scenario, and I don't know
Speaker 1: if this is true, but I could see a scenario
Speaker 1: where you're you're more integrated whole person now, where you've
Speaker 1: taken that old Korey in the enlightened Korey and now
Speaker 1: you're just you know, there's not to know just about it,
Speaker 1: but you're kind of a different beating. That's that's more whole.
Speaker 1: I don't know, what do you think about what I
Speaker 1: just said? Yeah, I think that's where our interests tend
Speaker 1: to overlap. I'm more interested these days in that integration
Speaker 1: of monk Corey and frat boy Corey. Right, like me too? Yeah,
Speaker 1: me too. Yeah, Because yes, I was in a totally
Speaker 1: different headspace when I was in the monastery and connected
Speaker 1: to my heart in a different kind of way and
Speaker 1: in a really profound way, and connected to awareness and
Speaker 1: consciousness and all the all the stuff that people talk
Speaker 1: about in very romantic ways as something to work toward
Speaker 1: but tends to be so much harder to access in
Speaker 1: day to day life. There was a really strong dichotomy
Speaker 1: for me when I came back from the monastery of like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's the deep stuff, like the meditation in the monastic setting,
Speaker 1: and then there's real life. And I think the last
Speaker 1: eight or so years have been trying to integrate those
Speaker 1: two so that there could be a new evolution and
Speaker 1: development of depth in the real world, one that doesn't
Speaker 1: look the same because you can't escape the distractions and
Speaker 1: the complicated family dynamics and relationship dynamics that you get
Speaker 1: in the real world that won't be triggered in the monastery.
Speaker 1: I worked through so much meditating fourteen hours a day,
Speaker 1: but there were things related to my parents, related to relationships,
Speaker 1: like certain qualities of loneliness or insecurity that could only
Speaker 1: come up in the context that triggered them. And there
Speaker 1: was a following coming back from Burma. It was just
Speaker 1: a whole other spiritual path, if you will. And yes,
Speaker 1: I do feel like there's much more space for more
Speaker 1: dimensions who I am now in a way that leads
Speaker 1: to a sense of wholeness that I didn't have before Burma.
Speaker 1: I don't think I had during Burma, and only comes
Speaker 1: now having walked both of those paths a bit more. Intimately.
Speaker 1: I love that so much. That's so much I'm experimenting
Speaker 1: here with the with the colors because I look very angelic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I really really love that, and I think that
Speaker 1: you are getting you are getting there, and that's probably
Speaker 1: the best path. But well, what do you think about Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna just throw this out there. Abraham Masol, one
Speaker 1: of my heroes, wrote an unpublished essay which maybe someday
Speaker 1: I'll publish it for him since he can't called can
Speaker 1: bunks ever be self actualized? And he argues in this
Speaker 1: essay that they can't be because actually he criticizes it
Speaker 1: a little bit. He says, you know, they to be
Speaker 1: self actualized requires getting your butt off the mountain and
Speaker 1: doing something in the world, you know, like you know,
Speaker 1: making the world a better place with your your present
Speaker 1: and you know, like not just being this like enlightened
Speaker 1: you know person that just like is all in your
Speaker 1: head twenty four to seven. And I thought it was
Speaker 1: a very provocative essay. What I'm just gonna say something
Speaker 1: great provocative. What if the core you are now is
Speaker 1: more more enlightened than you ever would have been if
Speaker 1: you stay stayed a monk. I'm just put this out there.
Speaker 1: I think there's a fair argument for that, I think,
Speaker 1: am I gonna get in trouble? I'm gonnaetro over saying
Speaker 1: that I won't tell the monks. The monks aren't watching
Speaker 1: it doing electric electic technology anyway, so they won't see this.
Speaker 1: It's a I think the answer to that is entirely
Speaker 1: dependent on the lens through which you're asking or just
Speaker 1: explaining what is enlightenment. So if enlightenment means waking up
Speaker 1: to and integrating and not being controlled by your enslaved
Speaker 1: by certain parts of who you are or past conditionings,
Speaker 1: then yes, I do think I am more enlightened. If
Speaker 1: it's referring to a quality of I don't know, less
Speaker 1: attachment to things or less greediness, then maybe a little
Speaker 1: less enlightened than when I was there, just because the
Speaker 1: quality of concentration that you get when you're meditating fourteen
Speaker 1: hours a day does lead to a very balanced quality
Speaker 1: of mind that I haven't found attainable yet outside of
Speaker 1: the monastic setting. So there's so much stimulation for the
Speaker 1: more primal part of my brain in day to day
Speaker 1: life that it does get very easy for the ego
Speaker 1: part of me to get caught up in wanting and desire.
Speaker 1: My practice these days is more learning to embrace that
Speaker 1: rather than try to subdue it as much and not
Speaker 1: embrace it in a way that I fuel it so
Speaker 1: that I get like, really really greedy. But just to
Speaker 1: again going back to this threat, we already open acknowledge
Speaker 1: it as a part of my humanness and also potentially
Speaker 1: as an important part of my human is in the
Speaker 1: context that I'm in right now, which is like being
Speaker 1: a human among other humans, having to have a job,
Speaker 1: having to make money, and having to market myself. All
Speaker 1: of these things are just you don't have to contend
Speaker 1: with that in the monastic setting. And so like, what
Speaker 1: does it actually mean to wake up to be enlightened
Speaker 1: in the particular context you're in. That's a question I
Speaker 1: continue to ask myself and explore. I don't know if
Speaker 1: I have a good answer, but I do think I'm
Speaker 1: more a weak than I was before, just by virtue
Speaker 1: of staying with that inquiry in the context sentmon. Thank
Speaker 1: you for that explanation. That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1: I mean, you slept two three hours a night when
Speaker 1: you were doing that. I mean it sounds pretty grueling
Speaker 1: to me. There was a point where you're back was
Speaker 1: so much pain. You went and You're like, I'm going
Speaker 1: to piece the fuck out, and then the monk was like, no,
Speaker 1: you're not well. His response always was just be more
Speaker 1: present it. It really didn't matter what you did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it just you know, I have there's so much pain.
Speaker 1: I think I'm going to leave. Just be more present.
Speaker 1: Like the noise is so loud, but the roof workers
Speaker 1: on the on the roof, like I can't deal with this.
Speaker 1: Just be more present. Uh this I had just had
Speaker 1: this amazing enlightening experience. Just be more present. And so
Speaker 1: it was. It was always to cultivate this quality of
Speaker 1: equanimity with whatever experience arose, which in that context was
Speaker 1: the path to greater peace and enlightenment. But yes, that
Speaker 1: the early the first week of that we treat was
Speaker 1: extreme grueling physical pain, to the point of wanting to
Speaker 1: leave after six days. And that's it was through that
Speaker 1: struggle that I had my first big insight, which was
Speaker 1: the distinction of primary pain versus secondary pain. Where I'd
Speaker 1: be sitting down, the physical pain was there and most
Speaker 1: of the time like the thought, OK, just be more present.
Speaker 1: So I'd bring my presence to the pain and I'd
Speaker 1: be like this is not working, this is stupid. It
Speaker 1: makes the pain more worse. I want to get out
Speaker 1: of here, and no way I could do this for
Speaker 1: six months. But then I started catching those thoughts that
Speaker 1: were coming up. So there's a physical pain, then the
Speaker 1: thoughts about the physical pain. What was interesting is that
Speaker 1: those thoughts would then trigger the emotions which most of
Speaker 1: us in the psychology world are familiar with. Right, negative
Speaker 1: thoughts come up, and then it triggers these negative emotions anger, fear, frustration.
Speaker 1: But the real interesting piece that I had not ever
Speaker 1: seen before was that those emotions were actually making the
Speaker 1: physical pain worse. I didn't know that there was a
Speaker 1: relationship between the emotional body and like the sensational body,
Speaker 1: if that's one way we could put it. So I
Speaker 1: just saw this insidious meant to loop. Right. There was
Speaker 1: physical pain triggered the thoughts. Thoughts triggered the emotions, and
Speaker 1: the emotions made the pain worse. And it was it
Speaker 1: was being able to see that there were two forms
Speaker 1: of pain, the physical pain, but then all the thoughts,
Speaker 1: the emotions I was kicking on top of it that
Speaker 1: I found, oh, I actually might have some influence over
Speaker 1: how much I was suffering. The cliche we often hear
Speaker 1: is that, you know, pain is inevitable, the suffering is optional.
Speaker 1: I think that's a little strong because sometimes the can
Speaker 1: pain be optional too? Can I can? I can? Can
Speaker 1: I make both optional? Yeah? So tell me where's that?
Speaker 1: Where's that inquiry coming from? The guy the monk who
Speaker 1: put himself on fire because he didn't seem to look
Speaker 1: like he was even in pain? Yes, and I would,
Speaker 1: I would agree that he wasn't in pain. So I
Speaker 1: the one thing I have, you know what I mean? Yeah,
Speaker 1: oh totally. And this is this is where a lot
Speaker 1: of people will see that, and it's just so hard
Speaker 1: to wrap your head around. But when you're meditating that deeply,
Speaker 1: and when your concentration gets that deep, you the mind
Speaker 1: gets to a point where it can literally observe any
Speaker 1: sensational experience, any aspect of your sense experience, and hold
Speaker 1: it with equanimity. It's just like, oh wow, there's heat
Speaker 1: right now, there's tension right now, And that's so hard
Speaker 1: to fathom what that would be like right when we
Speaker 1: don't have that training. But I do mean right in
Speaker 1: the monastery there it was often one hundred and six degrees,
Speaker 1: which isn't like being lit on fire, but the concrete
Speaker 1: walkways would get very, very hot. And I remember when
Speaker 1: I first got there, like five days in, I took
Speaker 1: my sandals off to walk on the concrete because I
Speaker 1: wanted to be more grounded, and I could hardly do
Speaker 1: it for more than fifteen seconds without my feet just
Speaker 1: feeling like they were burning. So I didn't do that again.
Speaker 1: And then three months went by and I started getting
Speaker 1: interested in exploring, like being with discomfort a little bit more,
Speaker 1: creating more discomfort to see how it would react to it.
Speaker 1: And it was a hotter time of the year. The
Speaker 1: concrete was hotter than it was before, and I remember
Speaker 1: walking on it and actually being able to tolerate it,
Speaker 1: and not just tolerate it, but almost be not feel
Speaker 1: any of the emotional impact that I felt before, of
Speaker 1: the fear, and the pain itself wasn't as intense. So
Speaker 1: that was like a small dose of seeing what the
Speaker 1: mind is capable of in relationship to experience. Is that
Speaker 1: we typically think there's no way we could possibly be
Speaker 1: with them, but that kind of This is what I'll
Speaker 1: just say about my general thoughts of that level of
Speaker 1: concentration and enlightenment. To get to that depth requires such
Speaker 1: a well trained mind and almost being I hate to say,
Speaker 1: disconnected from your bodily experience, but you're in another space
Speaker 1: of awareness that I just found fund it very difficult
Speaker 1: to interact with people that in like a day to
Speaker 1: day setting that weren't in that kind of that level
Speaker 1: of awakening or awareness that I first noticed when I
Speaker 1: came back from Burma. I was actually better able to
Speaker 1: help my students a year after getting back from Burma
Speaker 1: because I could more identify with like the mind that
Speaker 1: they were in, whereas before then there was just such
Speaker 1: a separation from the depth of practice I was in
Speaker 1: where they were that it was it was harder to connect.
Speaker 1: If we could say that, does that make sense? Makes
Speaker 1: a lot of sense? Okay, it's very interesting to me.
Speaker 1: I'm there to think of from like a learning perspective,
Speaker 1: do we learn do we overtime learn that certain labels
Speaker 1: we've used are associated with certain sensations, like you know,
Speaker 1: sort of like linguistic categories, and that some of this
Speaker 1: process is unlearning those categories and treating every sensation as
Speaker 1: a new uh, detached from any sort of rubricizing as
Speaker 1: Mass would put it, you know, I you know, ticking
Speaker 1: or cutting, you know, like like like cordining off certain
Speaker 1: things is oh, well that's pain. Oh that's pain, or
Speaker 1: that's that that's you know, happiness, that's what happiness feels like. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's what sadness feels like. But it's kind of like
Speaker 1: retraining that. I'm just I'm just throwing some stuff out there. Yeah.
Speaker 1: When you think of the retraining it what what are
Speaker 1: we retraining? Is it simply the decoupling of the label
Speaker 1: from the emotion? Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, So it's just like oh,
Speaker 1: like oh that's a feeling, but it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to like put a label on it
Speaker 1: just yet. In a lot of ways, it's the exact
Speaker 1: opposite of the emotional intelligence approach that I had last
Speaker 1: episode with Mark Brackett, where his whole thing is like
Speaker 1: having people learn how to label precisely their emotions. And
Speaker 1: I almost wonder, I just I'm just thinking, now what's better,
Speaker 1: actually his approach or the mindfulness approach. Yeah. I think
Speaker 1: both are incredibly important, and I think that that's integration. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: that's the integration, especially when working with trauma. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if Mark talked about this, but a key thing is, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so being able to use that part of your brain
Speaker 1: net more, the prefrontal cortex, he would be able to
Speaker 1: speak to it more diligently than I could to help
Speaker 1: that to right. And when we're resolving trauma, those emotions
Speaker 1: and those sensations just feel so soupy and they're not
Speaker 1: well integrated in the part of our brain that can reason,
Speaker 1: that can understand, that can think through it. And so
Speaker 1: a big piece of that is as those emotions come up,
Speaker 1: being able to discern, like what actually is this rather
Speaker 1: than this soupy feeling that doesn't have any boundaries. That's
Speaker 1: very disorienting, and maybe is okay when you're sitting in
Speaker 1: a monastic setting and you don't have to get anywhere
Speaker 1: or do anything or really be anyone. But in the
Speaker 1: real world, being able to have like a coherent sense
Speaker 1: of self that has some boundaries that know what an
Speaker 1: emotion is or what I'm feeling right now is incredibly important.
Speaker 1: And what I will say is in the monastery, the
Speaker 1: practice we were doing is a labeling practice, which means
Speaker 1: whatever is coming up, you're labeling it for what it is.
Speaker 1: So as soon as the eyes open. The first thing
Speaker 1: in the morning, when you wake up, you're going eyes opening,
Speaker 1: eyes opening. If you're feeling sleepy, you might note fatigue. Fatigue,
Speaker 1: it's a mental note in your head. But the idea
Speaker 1: is to show that in each moment there's an experience,
Speaker 1: and then there's the awareness of the experience. So it's
Speaker 1: a way that we track our moment to moment experience
Speaker 1: without without losing an awareness, but also to see it
Speaker 1: precisely for what it is, rather than letting it proliferate
Speaker 1: into something else. So when the pain comes up, being
Speaker 1: able to name it as pain or heat or tain,
Speaker 1: which then prevents it from going into I hate this pain.
Speaker 1: I can't be with this pain. And if those thoughts
Speaker 1: come up, then you just lay those as thoughts. But
Speaker 1: you could get more granular with it. And if there's fear,
Speaker 1: you label fear. If there's sadness, you label sadness. So
Speaker 1: I think that packaging of it psychologically is a very
Speaker 1: im important aspect to not being controlled by the experience
Speaker 1: and just and to start creating some boundaries around it
Speaker 1: so that we're not just blindly swept away by it.
Speaker 1: So my label of that noise was annoying piece of shit.
Speaker 1: Now you're saying I shouldn't, I should just listen to
Speaker 1: the sound and going on on my head, And that's
Speaker 1: that's my initial response as well. There it is, So
Speaker 1: if you're a monk, you're like, oh, that's a beautiful sound.
Speaker 1: Not quite, but maybe it all depends on kind of
Speaker 1: what our intentions are. When there there was about a
Speaker 1: month long, now I said three week long period in
Speaker 1: Burma where they were redoing the roof and where we
Speaker 1: meditated was on the top floor right next to the roof,
Speaker 1: and it was open door, so you heard anything that
Speaker 1: happened outside, and starting from eight am every morning until
Speaker 1: around four pm, you just hear this hammering on the
Speaker 1: roof as loud as you can imagine people talking, all
Speaker 1: while you're meditating, doing this really deep work of trying
Speaker 1: to concentrate in practice and the instructions in those in
Speaker 1: that setting. With that practice is you're bringing your attention
Speaker 1: to your breath. When the mind wander is, you bring
Speaker 1: it back to the breath. But if there's an experience
Speaker 1: that is more vivid and really catching your attention, you
Speaker 1: bring your awareness to that. So I spent a few
Speaker 1: weeks just listening to and holding with awareness this very
Speaker 1: obnoxious sound, the roof workers hammering the roof, talking to
Speaker 1: each other, making jokes, and the powerful thing about it
Speaker 1: was starting to see that the sound wasn't doing anything
Speaker 1: to annoy me. It didn't have an agenda to ruin
Speaker 1: my day, or my life or my meditation. It was
Speaker 1: just doing its only thing, which is to make sound.
Speaker 1: That's the nature of that experience, and everything has its
Speaker 1: own nature. So giving that experience a space to be
Speaker 1: what it was and not create an issue out of
Speaker 1: it has absolutely translated a transferred into my own life
Speaker 1: to see when I'm caught in these things that I
Speaker 1: originally perceive as making an issue for me, I don't
Speaker 1: have to fuel that thought process, and if I want
Speaker 1: to fuel it, I can. Sometimes there are contexts where
Speaker 1: it feels more important to feel that threat of anger.
Speaker 1: I think, especially in relationship to other people, where somebody
Speaker 1: is saying something that is rude. I could take the
Speaker 1: perspective of that, Okay, what I'm feeling right now is
Speaker 1: just an emotion of roote anger, and I could let
Speaker 1: it come, let it go if I want to. But
Speaker 1: I think for deepening connection it actually requires being more
Speaker 1: attuned to and honoring and connecting through the emotion rather
Speaker 1: than in spite of the emotion. So I'll actually bring
Speaker 1: that into the connection more. And so actually you just
Speaker 1: said really made me angry right now, and I actually
Speaker 1: I won't stand for that or I don't like when
Speaker 1: you speak to Yeah, Scott, I don't know if you've
Speaker 1: ever made me angry. I mean the space for that
Speaker 1: in our relationship if it comes up, but don't ever
Speaker 1: make me angry. Though it's uni directional. I'm joking. I'm joking, well,
Speaker 1: really great points. You're making really great points. And I
Speaker 1: don't know. Sometimes if I'm a headache, I meditate and
Speaker 1: and I really get as close as I can, just
Speaker 1: like zoom in on the pain of the headache. Sometimes
Speaker 1: a headache goes away. And I find that a fascinating phenomenon.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that all the meditation people will
Speaker 1: be like, what you did is you change your relationship
Speaker 1: to the headache. But it's like, okay, whatever, but I
Speaker 1: don't actually feel it, you know, Like, So I mean
Speaker 1: that is to me the most fascinating thing. Like it's
Speaker 1: not that I just changed my relationship to It's like
Speaker 1: it's like No, the actual sensation went away, and I'm
Speaker 1: trying to understand what how that's possible. Yeah, I am too.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, you'd be more familiar with
Speaker 1: I'm sure the research on all of this. I haven't
Speaker 1: seen anything that come out that's come out that's answered
Speaker 1: my question around that. But when when we're talking about acceptance,
Speaker 1: a lot of people and it's relationship to well being,
Speaker 1: a lot of people perceive it in the way that
Speaker 1: I think you initially perceived it, which is that, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm not fighting the experience anymore. I just kind of
Speaker 1: allow it to be here. Yea. But it almost that
Speaker 1: almost communicates this idea that the experience is still there,
Speaker 1: we're just not like pushing against it. And sometimes that's true.
Speaker 1: But in my experience, what immediately happens as soon as
Speaker 1: you stop pushing against it on the most subtle level,
Speaker 1: the experience transforms, it changes, and with deeper meditation, experiences
Speaker 1: can arise, like physical pain, and as soon as you
Speaker 1: bring your attention to those experiences, they completely evaporate and
Speaker 1: they dissolve. Yeah, and and that's really fascinating to me. Wait,
Speaker 1: if we get really deep here, maybe the headache thing
Speaker 1: is to metaphor for life. So people like everything has
Speaker 1: its own sort of nature that wants to be expressed
Speaker 1: and sort of laws of we have no free will, right,
Speaker 1: so it's the laws of you know, of of of
Speaker 1: that was set out by the Big Bang. And like
Speaker 1: the more that you like try to the more you
Speaker 1: come in contact and try to change it, the more
Speaker 1: it's going to naturally resist. So there are situations where
Speaker 1: you certainly you want to resist something, but it's about
Speaker 1: finding a way of getting away of like letting it
Speaker 1: do its thing, but you not being affected by it, yeah,
Speaker 1: either physically or mentally. So sometimes that might be figuring
Speaker 1: a way to kindly tell someone, you know, hey, you know,
Speaker 1: if you're in a phone conversation with someone who just
Speaker 1: won't stop talking for two hours and you're just like exhausted,
Speaker 1: you know, and you don't want to hurt their feelings,
Speaker 1: you don't want to push against that, you know, but
Speaker 1: be like, you know, hey, this has just been so
Speaker 1: valuable to hear your perspective, and I just want to
Speaker 1: know I'm there for you, but I need to go
Speaker 1: to bed now, you know, Like I don't know what
Speaker 1: do you think about it? Just said well, one, I
Speaker 1: think you do that very well because you've done that
Speaker 1: with me a handful of times where we're like in
Speaker 1: these interesting conversations and you fully acknowledge it and you're like,
Speaker 1: I actually have to get to sleep right now or
Speaker 1: something like that. Weren't really sick, I need a nap.
Speaker 1: So you do that, You do that better than most people,
Speaker 1: Better than I used to be, because when I was
Speaker 1: in college or grad school, I was known by my
Speaker 1: best friend Ben to. He would know, he would see
Speaker 1: it coming. I'd be like, you're done. It would get
Speaker 1: to a point where like he's like, nap time. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: nap time, You're done, And like I was known for that.
Speaker 1: So I've been I've been trying to be a lot
Speaker 1: more kinder in my uh in saying that, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you're doing it gracefully and so to a better effect. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Chapter five, So I talked about four pillars of presence
Speaker 1: in the book, focus allowing, curiosity, and embodiment, and this
Speaker 1: most relates to the allowing pillar of presence, which is
Speaker 1: developing the container to hold the many dimensions of our
Speaker 1: experience with and at least getting to a point where
Speaker 1: we don't immediately need to get rid of them, which
Speaker 1: most of us are trying to find happiness by pushing
Speaker 1: at the expense of experiences. So the counterintuitive approach there
Speaker 1: is actually first or one thing we can deepen into
Speaker 1: is developing the inner container that can hold the many
Speaker 1: dimensions of ourselves. Doesn't mean we have to stay in
Speaker 1: each of those dimensions, but just having that capacity allows
Speaker 1: us to feel and experience more integration and wholeness. But
Speaker 1: the subtopic within that threat is but I can't just
Speaker 1: allow everything, right, because people then think, well, am I
Speaker 1: just going to like passively resign to life? Or if
Speaker 1: my child is ruining their life with drugs, am I
Speaker 1: just supposed to say? Okay, well that's just going to
Speaker 1: have to allow it to happen. Right. We notice in
Speaker 1: justices around us just let that happen. And this allowing
Speaker 1: pillar and equanimity, which is the mind state that's often
Speaker 1: spoken about with this is more about our internal experience
Speaker 1: than it is our external experience. And so to allow
Speaker 1: we can allow the desire for boundary, we can allow
Speaker 1: the curiosity, we can allow anger. It doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: we have to follow that thread. It just means that
Speaker 1: we can at least acknowledge this dimension of our humanness
Speaker 1: and see it there and make space for it if
Speaker 1: it feels appropriate in that context, or be able to
Speaker 1: set a boundary internally around it and go okay, not
Speaker 1: right now. But when it comes to external experiences, let's
Speaker 1: say we say, okay, I should just allow my child
Speaker 1: to ruin their life with drugs. This is a complicated
Speaker 1: one because sometimes we need to let someone just walk
Speaker 1: their own path and we can't do any intervening. But
Speaker 1: if we just said, oh, I'm just going to allow
Speaker 1: it because Corey said I need to allow it, well,
Speaker 1: that also might mean that we're disallowing a part of
Speaker 1: us that has our heart or our value to help
Speaker 1: this person. So allowing externally is different than allowing internally,
Speaker 1: and I think is more into passive resignation, as many
Speaker 1: people would would think. I'm more interested in the internal
Speaker 1: experience of allowing. How does that relate to the pain box?
Speaker 1: The pain box? Okay, so the I think it does? Red, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it does, so the pain box. This is your phrase, right,
Speaker 1: this is Corey's phrase. I like giving people credit. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: This idea has been spoken about in different ways, but
Speaker 1: the first chapters titled Being Human Is Hard and talks
Speaker 1: about the various traumas of life that develop these walls
Speaker 1: that prevent us from experiencing different parts of ourselves, different emotions,
Speaker 1: whether it's joy or vulnerability. Over time, we learn like
Speaker 1: what's safe to experience and what's not safe to experience,
Speaker 1: and that ends up confining us into a smaller way
Speaker 1: of living that I call living within the pain box.
Speaker 1: It's called the pain box because the walls are made
Speaker 1: out of pain. There are no actual increase slabs that
Speaker 1: we need to break through or get through. It's just
Speaker 1: the perceived pain that I might have to experience if
Speaker 1: I try and get to where I'm trying to get.
Speaker 1: So an example of that is maybe where we're trying
Speaker 1: to embody a little more authenticity, which is a complicated word,
Speaker 1: but let's just say it's like being able to honor
Speaker 1: our present moment experience. But that might require experiencing a
Speaker 1: sense of shame around something, and we might go, oh,
Speaker 1: last time I felt shame, it was way too painful,
Speaker 1: So I don't want to experience that. So the shame
Speaker 1: becomes a wall to experiencing authenticity or the pain of
Speaker 1: experiencing that shame, so as it relates to the allowing
Speaker 1: pillar presence to These walls don't get softened by ramming
Speaker 1: through them or breaking them down or trying to jump
Speaker 1: over them. They only get softened by meeting them or
Speaker 1: I won't say only. There might be other ways, but
Speaker 1: the main way I've seen them soften is when they're
Speaker 1: met with kindness, when they're met with presence and awareness
Speaker 1: and seeing as also an integral part of who we are.
Speaker 1: These walls are trying to protect us. They're saying, like, hey,
Speaker 1: last time you experienced this, it was really uncomfortable, and
Speaker 1: I don't want you to have to experience that again.
Speaker 1: So when we can see the heart behind the wall,
Speaker 1: we can learn to love the wall and hold it
Speaker 1: with awareness, then the wall feels safe enough to soften
Speaker 1: and let go. And that's where I see profound integration
Speaker 1: in my students and where they actually start making real, big,
Speaker 1: meaningful shifts. It's when they befriend that wall, this thing
Speaker 1: that they perceive as an enemy that they have to
Speaker 1: break through or jump over or get rid of or suppress,
Speaker 1: when they see the wisdom in it, hold it with presence,
Speaker 1: allow it to be there, then it organically softens. I
Speaker 1: love that, like the headache, yes, yeah, yeah. Go on
Speaker 1: specific for people that might be curious if you're working
Speaker 1: through something yourself and like, what does this actually look like?
Speaker 1: Just contemplate anything in your life that you want more of, connection, love,
Speaker 1: even success, however you define that, and then reflect on
Speaker 1: what do you perceive gets in the way of you
Speaker 1: getting there? What is the discomfort that comes up when
Speaker 1: you perceive trying to get these things. Whatever that discomfort
Speaker 1: is is going to be most closely associated with your
Speaker 1: pain wall. And you can do a meditation practice where
Speaker 1: you imagine yourself trying to get to that thing and
Speaker 1: experiencing that pain wall when it comes up. And when
Speaker 1: it does come up, just practice allowing it to be there,
Speaker 1: and you can you can even personify it, give it
Speaker 1: a shape and a color and say, hey, it's nice
Speaker 1: to meet to you. I'm not here to get rid
Speaker 1: of you. I just want to learn what your positive
Speaker 1: intention is. How are you trying to serve me, how
Speaker 1: are you trying to help me. There's a very good
Speaker 1: chance that part of you will. It'll be such a
Speaker 1: breath of fresh air for it to be seen and
Speaker 1: acknowledged rather than constantly having the usual experience of trying
Speaker 1: to be suppressed. So it's just a process of making
Speaker 1: friends with all dimensions of yourself, including those parts we
Speaker 1: most resent. So this building off what you just said there,
Speaker 1: which I agree with whole wholeheartedly. You you s what
Speaker 1: I did there. Yes, that's good. You have this thing
Speaker 1: in that in your book. You say, but but if
Speaker 1: you knew the real me dot dot dot, And I
Speaker 1: was wondering if you could talk a little bit about that,
Speaker 1: because I've been really interested in dispelling the myth of
Speaker 1: that there is such a thing as a really you,
Speaker 1: you know. So I was wondering if you could kind
Speaker 1: of talk about because some people might say, like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm scared of like getting too close to people, you know,
Speaker 1: because that seems like a real barrier to connection, is
Speaker 1: like afraid that someone's going to see the real you can.
Speaker 1: Can you talk a little bit about that? Sure? So
Speaker 1: there's there's a whole section in the book on connection
Speaker 1: and into see and overrated, overrated, over not really I mean, anyway,
Speaker 1: I'm being cheeky. Yeah, So one of the ways I mean,
Speaker 1: I talk about intimacy beyond the usual idea of sex
Speaker 1: and romance and it as this this experience you have
Speaker 1: when you feel like you are truly seen and accepted.
Speaker 1: But the word that I focus on on in that
Speaker 1: is the you. And I say, well, what is this you?
Speaker 1: Who is this you? Because if we've been exploring up
Speaker 1: until this point in the whole book, is that the you,
Speaker 1: as you're saying, Scott, has many different dimensions, many different parts.
Speaker 1: So what does it mean for you to be fully
Speaker 1: seen and accepted? I know what that means now, but
Speaker 1: I didn't know, like you know, ten years ago, right right, So,
Speaker 1: so there might be some parts of us in connection
Speaker 1: with another person that we're fully okay with letting someone
Speaker 1: else se the part of us is really successful and
Speaker 1: funny and happy. But maybe this other part that has
Speaker 1: a bad relationship with our mother, that's insecure, that doesn't
Speaker 1: really like going out on the weekends, whatever, we might
Speaker 1: feel like, oh that's less okay me me, Yeah. So,
Speaker 1: the depth of intimacy we can experience with another person,
Speaker 1: this is my own theory, is directly related to the
Speaker 1: depth of intimacy we can experience with ourselves, because so much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: until we can start to feel okay with these parts
Speaker 1: of ourselves enough that we can say, hey, this is
Speaker 1: like more of who I am. If we don't perceive
Speaker 1: that another person sees the deeper parts of us and
Speaker 1: accepts and loves that doesn't necessarily need to love them,
Speaker 1: but at least accepts them, then we're always going to
Speaker 1: have this sense that this person only like doesn't really
Speaker 1: love me, only loves part of me. And that's not
Speaker 1: always on the other person, because some of us are
Speaker 1: so disconnected from ourselves that we don't even know the
Speaker 1: parts of us that we resent that we're not bringing
Speaker 1: to the other person true And that's that's where the
Speaker 1: but if You Knew the Real Meet comes in the book,
Speaker 1: and it shares this story about this couple and Chris
Speaker 1: and Jared and Jared they had a great relationship, but
Speaker 1: Jared always felt like Chris didn't really love and accept him,
Speaker 1: and Chris was like, what are you talking about? Like,
Speaker 1: we have this great relationship, I love you, and when
Speaker 1: we go deeper into it, Jared didn't even know what
Speaker 1: it was he felt that Chris didn't love about I mean,
Speaker 1: there was just his sense. And when I started doing
Speaker 1: more work with Jared, it was very clear that he
Speaker 1: had a lot of parts of himself that he didn't love,
Speaker 1: that he didn't accept that he was there you go.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until he could do that work of saying, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: there are these parts of me radical acceptance. Yes, that
Speaker 1: radical acceptance, and first doing that himself but then being
Speaker 1: able to bring that into the relationship then allowed Chris
Speaker 1: to also start to accept those parts. This is it's
Speaker 1: touchy territory because you don't want to go, like on
Speaker 1: your first Tinder date at McDonald's and say like, hey,
Speaker 1: you're all my demons and my shadow parts like this
Speaker 1: stuff we progress and isn't that the best place to
Speaker 1: do it? If there is a place to do it,
Speaker 1: do it on that McDonald's. Yeah, when you're eating like
Speaker 1: a greasy burger, I mean that's you're already showing your
Speaker 1: dietary things, right, So it's like that's one step towards
Speaker 1: showing your shadowside. So we acknowledge that that there may
Speaker 1: only be like a couple of people in your entire
Speaker 1: life that you do show the depth of yourself too.
Speaker 1: And there's a container that gets created over time where
Speaker 1: we use some wise discernment around when does it feel
Speaker 1: appropriate to maybe bring more parts of myself in but
Speaker 1: as we do. I think anyone that and everyone's experiences
Speaker 1: to some sent within their relationships where they feel like
Speaker 1: when they feel a little safer to be themselves, there
Speaker 1: is a sense of connection with that person and something
Speaker 1: in your nervous system softens and settles, and it's so
Speaker 1: rich and fulfilling and allows you to experience more of
Speaker 1: your wholeness. And since this part got cut out of
Speaker 1: the book, but since we're such tribal creatures and we
Speaker 1: depend so much on like other people's sense of ourselves
Speaker 1: as being okay for like a sense of like for
Speaker 1: a fundamental sense of wholeness, Yeah, sense of fullness like
Speaker 1: that is actually really important. I think there are only
Speaker 1: certain stages of well being that we can get to
Speaker 1: when we feel another person accepts parts of us. And
Speaker 1: it might not be the whole tribe that accepts parts
Speaker 1: of us, but our most intimate relationships, if there's a
Speaker 1: commitment to really really getting to know one another, that
Speaker 1: can deepen in a profound way. And the more parts
Speaker 1: of you that are brought in and accepted, the more
Speaker 1: you feel that the wholeness of you is accepted and seen,
Speaker 1: and that that's a lifelong journey, and not every part
Speaker 1: has to be seen and accepted, but the more that are,
Speaker 1: the deeper that sense of wholeness and intimacy becomes. Thanks Corey.
Speaker 1: That's why I try to with my guests on the
Speaker 1: psycho Psychology podcast. I try to just let you know,
Speaker 1: let let my personality shine in no inhibited way. And
Speaker 1: so far, so good. That's why people love you. So
Speaker 1: technology can obviously be a double edged sword. On the
Speaker 1: one hand, technology can bring out this constant neediness to
Speaker 1: be liked by others. But in what way is technology
Speaker 1: allowing us to be more mindful? And do you have
Speaker 1: any sort of leaving you know, as we close our
Speaker 1: interview today, some recommendations of things people can do to
Speaker 1: use technology to help them be more mindful. Not sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So technology is still a big area of interest for
Speaker 1: me in terms of how we bring presence to it
Speaker 1: and develop presence through it. And I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people in my space, the meditation space, focus a
Speaker 1: lot on healthy boundaries around technology, which is absolutely important
Speaker 1: and I'm a big proponent of. But I also think
Speaker 1: we need to start addressing technology in the same way
Speaker 1: as an extension of our humanness. So just because we
Speaker 1: have negative thoughts doesn't mean that we would start campaigning
Speaker 1: against having brains. We have to learn to work with
Speaker 1: those negative thoughts and see them, and also when we
Speaker 1: focus on the good thoughts, the negative thoughts just see like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is the part of the whole thing of what
Speaker 1: it means to have a brain. In the same way
Speaker 1: with technology, there's a lot of good and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of bad. We don't have to throw the baby
Speaker 1: out with the bathwater just because there's a lot of
Speaker 1: bad to it. So I'm in addition to creating those
Speaker 1: healthy parameters and designing technology ethically, I do think we
Speaker 1: need to explore our own relationship to it. And this
Speaker 1: is where I have a whole a series of meditations
Speaker 1: in the book that help us just develop a more
Speaker 1: intimate relationship to technology in such a way that we
Speaker 1: use it purposefully and are not completely hijacked by it.
Speaker 1: So one of those meditations is it's very simple, but
Speaker 1: it's called the scroller coaster. And this is where who
Speaker 1: called it that I did. Oh, that's clever. Thanks. People
Speaker 1: have been into that one. So instead of being present
Speaker 1: without your phone, you be present with your phone. You
Speaker 1: can see it as a meditation practice. You open your phone,
Speaker 1: you open your favorite social media app, let's just say
Speaker 1: Instagram or Facebook, and then you start scrolling. So this
Speaker 1: is where the scroller coaster begins. You start going through
Speaker 1: and then it's like you see a cat and go,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I love cats. And then you see
Speaker 1: your friend got a job that you wanted. Oh I
Speaker 1: hate that friend, and the highs and lows of the emotion.
Speaker 1: This is the roller coaster of emotions that we experience.
Speaker 1: So that's why it's called the scrollercoaster. Start scrolling and
Speaker 1: then we feel the roller coaster and usually we're going,
Speaker 1: I'm always so proud of you. Well I post things
Speaker 1: on Am I doing it wrong? No, you're just like
Speaker 1: on the high end of the roller coast. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: okay God. So we usually do that process on automatic pilot,
Speaker 1: and those emotions just hijack us as they come through.
Speaker 1: I think taking a dedicated period of five minutes to
Speaker 1: explore what it's like to go through that through the
Speaker 1: scroller coaster with more awareness makes us more sensitive to
Speaker 1: when it comes up in future moments. So this isn't
Speaker 1: necessarily a meditation you do every day. Every day, and
Speaker 1: it's I don't expect that all of us are going
Speaker 1: to bring that same quality of awareness to every time
Speaker 1: we're scrolling there our phones. But if someone listening to
Speaker 1: this right now after this is over, pulled out their
Speaker 1: phone started scrolling through, but made it a meditation practice
Speaker 1: to watch what is your mind thinking about and what
Speaker 1: are you feeling? And see if you can watch all
Speaker 1: of that shifting and changing without being so caught up
Speaker 1: in it, I think it would be really illuminating. It
Speaker 1: is really luminating for anyone to say, Wow, this has
Speaker 1: so much control over me. And also I don't have
Speaker 1: to be so stuck in it on automatic pilot like
Speaker 1: I usually am. So it's just a little bit of
Speaker 1: awareness that we can gain in relationship to the technology.
Speaker 1: That's a great, great tip, and I love the name
Speaker 1: of that, I really do, Corey. Is there anything else
Speaker 1: you'd like to say? Or you know, I don't often
Speaker 1: give people my guests a chance to plug things because
Speaker 1: I just hate plugging. But I'm going to give you
Speaker 1: a chance right now because this is your first book
Speaker 1: and I think I know how much it means to you.
Speaker 1: Is there anything you want to talk about right now? Yeah, yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: the book is called Stop Missing Your Life, How to
Speaker 1: Be Deeply Present in an unpresent World. The book took
Speaker 1: a solid year and a half of writing, and when
Speaker 1: through a lot of iterations, I originally wanted to call
Speaker 1: the book Deep Presence and Well, then a bunch of
Speaker 1: people said this sounded like an eighties porno. I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: so I can't market that, And then I want to
Speaker 1: call it Permission to Be Human, and that really felt
Speaker 1: like it got at the heart of it. But they
Speaker 1: still didn't feel like that would be You know, when
Speaker 1: you're working with a publisher, they have their ideas of
Speaker 1: what's market marketable or not. And then they then we
Speaker 1: went with stop Missing your Life. And I originally resisted
Speaker 1: it because it's not something that I would say to someone.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't ever say to my students, stop Missing your Life.
Speaker 1: But when I reflected more on the zeitgeist, the flavor
Speaker 1: of our culture right now, this feels like an important
Speaker 1: way to communicate this message where our heads are down
Speaker 1: so frequently, where we're moving through the motions so quickly,
Speaker 1: and many of us are so disconnected that it's almost
Speaker 1: like we need something that stands out, does shakes this
Speaker 1: by the shoulders and says like stop at least just stop,
Speaker 1: drop in and this this book will take your hand
Speaker 1: on that journey of reconnecting to the pulse of your
Speaker 1: own life. What I love about it is that you
Speaker 1: can't get the whole book in chapter one. Each chapter
Speaker 1: builds progressively all the way to the very end when
Speaker 1: we're talking about technology, connection, intimacy. So I'm really excited
Speaker 1: for people to read it. You could learn. You get
Speaker 1: it anywhere books are sold Amazon, Barnes and Noble, stop
Speaker 1: Missing your Life dot com on the black market, on
Speaker 1: the black market, and for anyone that I want, I'd
Speaker 1: love to give your listeners free resources. If you want
Speaker 1: guided meditations, app recommendations like mindfulness starter kit, anyone could
Speaker 1: just text their email address to plus one sixty three
Speaker 1: one four zero five four six three one and you'll
Speaker 1: get a bunch of free stuff so you don't need
Speaker 1: to buy the bookie Yeah sixty three one four zero
Speaker 1: five four sixty three one. Yeah, that's it. Got a
Speaker 1: daily podcast called Practicing Human It's Great, which you already
Speaker 1: talked about. And otherwise, just a big, big thank you
Speaker 1: to you, Scott. I love who you are. In this world,
Speaker 1: and that you get to do it through such a
Speaker 1: great platform and our friendship. I'm so grateful for it.
Speaker 1: I think everyone's really lucky to have you here guiding
Speaker 1: us into more self actualization, transcendence, and just becoming good
Speaker 1: whole humans. Well, thank you, Corey. That's usually how my
Speaker 1: ending sounds, so I don't know how to top that,
Speaker 1: but thank you Corey for being on the show today
Speaker 1: and of course being a dear friend. But I just
Speaker 1: really wish you I'm giving a good intention here. I
Speaker 1: wish you well on this book journey here because it's
Speaker 1: a I know it's it's very well, it's very well deserved,
Speaker 1: and I think it's will help a lot of people.
Speaker 1: I like the book. In fact, my burb is on
Speaker 1: the back of the book. I'm going to read my burb.
Speaker 1: This down to Earth, clear and capacit book is one
Speaker 1: of the best distillations of the benefits of mindfulness I've
Speaker 1: ever read. It will help you savor the good in
Speaker 1: your life as well as bring out the immense good
Speaker 1: that all realizes within you. Stop missing the wonder beating
Speaker 1: connection in your life and read this book right now.
Speaker 1: Thanks again, Corey for being on the show. Thanks Scott,
Speaker 1: thanks for listening to this episode of the Psychology Podcast.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to react in some way to something
Speaker 1: you heard, I encourage you to join in the discussion
Speaker 1: at the Psychology podcast dot com. That's the Psychology Podcast
Speaker 1: dot com. Also, please add a reading and review of
Speaker 1: the podcast on iTunes and subscribe to the Psychology Podcast
Speaker 1: YouTube channel, as we're really trying to increase our viewership
Speaker 1: on YouTube. In fact, many of these episodes are in
Speaker 1: video format on YouTube, so you'll definitely want to check
Speaker 1: out that channel. Thanks for being such a great supporter
Speaker 1: of the podcast, and tune in next time for more
Speaker 1: on the mind, brain, behavior, and creativity. No